Subj: TML Digest, Vol 2003, Issue 6 
Date: 12/3/02 4:32:47 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: tml-request@travellercentral.com
Reply-to: tml@travellercentral.com
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Blood and alcohol
   2. Re: Why do CPR weapons persist? (Tod Glenn)
   3. Incomplete Stories, Was: TML Digest, Vol 2003, Issue 4
       (Leslie Bates)
   4. Re: KIDS!?!?
   5. Re: Blood and alcohol (David P. Summers)
   6. gearhead madness (richard honeycutt)
   7. Re: RE: Skills of the little ones
   8. RE: RE: Skills of the little ones
   9. Re: Re : [TML] Heat and armor (Leonard Erickson)
  10. Re: Re: Blood and alcohol (Megan Robertson)
  11. Re: Re: [nothing whatever to do with] Willaim Shatner
       (Megan Robertson)
  12. Re: Re: Eduware (Leonard Erickson)
  13. Re: The Horror of Bureaucracy, or The Government Says It's
          Theirs Now (Leonard Erickson)
  14. Re: Hurricanes, weather modification, etc. (Leonard Erickson)
  15. Re: Equipment - tactical mirror (Leonard Erickson)
  16. Re: Re: Death of Print? (and other OT stuff) (Leonard Erickson)
  17. Recruiting costs
  18. (Volcanoes)  Smoking is bad for your health (Jeff Rowse)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:25:41 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Blood and alcohol
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>ObTrav: err... aslan... big cats... milk... beer... gets drunk?

er . . . Aslan . . . not cats . . .

metabolisms . . . similar . . . enough . . . to . . . humans . . . to . . .
eat . . . same . . . food . . . maybe . . . get . . . plotzed . . . on . . .
same . . . stuff . . .

L . . . K . . . W
------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 20:43:20 -0800
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: The Traveller Mailing List <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Why do CPR weapons persist?
Message-ID: <BA117667.4F2D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
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Message: 2

on 12/2/02 5:24 PM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:

> Yeah, but the coilgun requires *microsecond* timing. and switching
> *large* currents in those times.
>
> Work out the acceleration of the projectile and pick a number for the
> number of coils. Then use D=(AT^2)/2 to work out the times that the
> projectile reaches and leaves each coil.
>
> And this timing depend on the acceleration which depend on the mass of
> the projectile.

I think, for a variety of reasons, we've ruled out coilguns as unlikely to
be the basis for gauss weapons.  But they are canon, so they must work.  And
timing issues in electrical circuits are trivial when compared with
mechanical systems like a CPR gun and these are really not all that
complicated.  Highly reliable machinguns were being built at the end of the
19th century. 

Consider the timing necessary for the firing circuit of an implosion nuclear
weapon, yet it was managed in 1945. Certainly the timing for a coilgun could
be easily managed by TL 10.

--
Never raise your fist in anger.  It leaves your groin unprotected.
--
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:54:23 -0600
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
To: The Traveller Mailing List <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: [TML] Incomplete Stories, Was: TML Digest, Vol 2003, Issue 4
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20021202225423.00b44e30@minn.net>
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20021202222159.025ed008@192.168.0.1>
References: <8s7ouusqnob8sfetq6g9biqb4pf2jdadj2@4ax.com>
<20021202200019.BA52C279F6@mail.travellercentral.com>
<20021202200019.BA52C279F6@mail.travellercentral.com>
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At 10:24 PM 12/2/2002 -0500, Mark Urbin <eclipse@urbin.net> wrote:
>At 10:07 PM 12/2/2002 -0500, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>>On Mon,  2 Dec 2002 12:00:19 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
>>
>> >At 11:13 AM 12/2/2002 -0800, Azalais Malfoy wrote:
>> >>On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Leslie Bates wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >                      Friends in High Places
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>Are these archived anywhere?
>> >
>> >Freelance Traveller, but they are a few issues behind.
>>
>>Deliberately.  I didn't want to overwhelm people, and I wanted to make sure
>>that Leslie wasn't under any time pressure just because I was completely
>>caught up.  In certain story sites, I've seen the quality drop
>>precipitously because the author tried to rush it when he saw that it had
>>been thus-and-so-long since the last posted installment.
>
>I really liked his story about the Ensign returning to Earth at the
>beginning of the Rule of Man.
>I found the fragments at the end to be a plus.  It leaves gaps for the
>reader's imagination to fill.

I basically started on the premise of an Ensign from the heroic TCN being
assigned as a planetary governor, added planetary/local machine politics, a
swipe at my nilistic bitch of a mother. When the discussion about the
Interstellar Wars and founding of the Rule of Man heated up it became
obvious that the story wasn't going to work as written.


Les

==================================================================
  Leslie Bates   (Yes, *That* one.)   LESBATES@MINN.NET
  P.O. Box 581211, Minneapolis, MN 55458-1211
------------------------------------------------------------------
Stuart Smalley's Daily Affirmations for the Inner Pirate
Thursday: I will express my feelings today. I will not hide them
behind my eyepatch. My eyepatch is not a mask for my feelings,
but rather a small swatch of leather that covers a hideous scar.
-- http://tequilaresearch.com/pirate/
==================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:29:09 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: KIDS!?!?
Message-ID: <12.2990b585.2b1d9b25@aol.com>
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In a message dated 12/2/02 11:01:20 AM, tml-request@travellercentral.com
writes:

>> If we're going to have girls like this (Ditzie, etc.) in real
>> life, how do we account for this in the various character
>> generation systems?  Do we assume that they are exceptions,
>> or do we find some way to make an allowance?
>

We also have boys to deal with, remember. Will Robinson and Doogie Howser
being just two of the more obvious. Never mind the likes of Barry Ween and
Dexter.

Back among the girls, there is also the aforementioned Ms. Ricci and numerous
other child actors.

The answer to "how do you handle this sort of character in Traveller" will,
of course, vary with the version of Traveller mechanics you play/care about.

The "Child prodigy" solution among CT and MT (and probably T4), is to assume
that such characters have some chunk of their maximum skill ranks very young,
and all focused into one or a few skills.  In the case of physical prodigies
like gymnasts, these skill ranks turn into something else at/around puberty. 
As such, the character isn't pulling ranks out of the air later in life;
he/she is converting the prodigal drive into other skills now deemed more
useful.

CT and MT can also simulate a lot of the "young athlete" effect simply by
jiggering STR and DEX to account for the age.  You want a prodigy gymnast? 
Skill-1 and DEX of 15 (which is a +3 DM under MT) is the same as DEX 7 and
Skill-3 when rolling the dice...

TNE and T20 already account for youth somewhat, though only in retrospect. 
Both account for skills you "grew up with", as opposed to what you learned
after reaching adulthood. Actually creating a 12-year old would be a matter
of scaling those early skills down by some fraction. Both systems would
require a (possibly temporary) repeal of the starting skill limits rules, or
some other caveat to allow for chargen to start at age 8...

GC
------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:47:50 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
To: The Traveller Mailing List <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: [TML] Re: Blood and alcohol
Message-ID: <p05010400ba11f5799b3d@[143.232.119.186]>
In-Reply-To: <11b.1aa93091.2b1d8c45@aol.com>
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At 11:25 PM -0500 12/2/02, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>  >ObTrav: err... aslan... big cats... milk... beer... gets drunk?
>
>er . . . Aslan . . . not cats . . .
>
>metabolisms . . . similar . . . enough . . . to . . . humans . . . to . . .
>eat . . . same . . . food . . . maybe . . . get . . . plotzed . . . on . . .
>same . . . stuff . . .
>
>L . . . K . . . W

This is AFAIK...

The effects of alcohol are not so fundamental  that you every
organism that lives on the same amino acids, etc. will get drunk.
OTOH, it wouldn't be at all unreasonable for a species that uses the
same vitamins (and other pretty specific stuff) would also get drunk
on alcohol.  So it can go anyway the GM desires.

One thing about Traveller is that it does tend to assume a pretty
universal metabolism....
--
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 23:32:51 -0500
From: richard honeycutt <richard@usisp.com>
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] gearhead madness
Message-ID: <3DEC33F3.1080203@usisp.com>
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Message: 6

here is an idea I had. Has this been done before? What do you think of it?

    I have been thinking again, this time about reliability and power
output.
When considering internal combustion engines, there seems to be some
relationship between reliability and power per some unit ( not mass or
volume).
     Compare 3 engines at about 2500-3000 hp  ( about 1.8-2.2 Mw ); a
blown Hemi
in a top fuel dragster, a wwII airplane engine and a 3000 hp locomotive
diesel. All
3 put out about the same power, but none have the same mass or volume.
Without
modification, there cannot be such a wide variety of engines of same
power output
designed in FFS1.
    The other main difference between the 3 engines is their
reliability. The dragster
engine might last a few runs without grenading if proper building and a
few voodoo
chants are done. The airplane engine a few missions and the locomotive a
few days
of continuous running before a major overhaul. I am not considering
minor maintainence
at this time. I will simply assume the the oil is changed and fluids
checked at regular
intervals.
    The reaon I beleive there are differences in reliability and
mass/volume differences
is from the differences in the material strengths used. An engine made
of paper will
fail immediately and an engine made of mithril may last indefinately.
This is also
where you may play with tradeoffs on weight and volume.
    What I intend to try is to choose a volume for the engine, take the
cube root
( to go from cubic meters to simply meters ) and multiply that by the
material toughness.
This should give some indication of how strong the engine is. Then
choose a power output
that I want and find the output/engine strength. I think this number
will give a fair indcation
of how reliable the engine will be. What I hope is that the
power/strength will be proportional
somehow with mtbf. I know that there is more to this, but I hope that at
least it will be
somewhere near the ballpark at least.

    Any suggestions that can be sent my way will be appreciated.


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Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:26:45 -0800
From: shadow@shadowgard.com
To: The Traveller Mailing List <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] RE: Skills of the little ones
Message-ID: <3DEBDE25.13644.35875D9@localhost>
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Message: 7

On 2 Dec 2002 at 12:50, John T. Kwon wrote:

> And how do Olympic gymnasts achieve skill levels far higher
> than any adult alive?  And their skills falter and fade as
> they grow up?

Part of it is that they don't have a life outside of gymnastics.

And at puberty, body mass moves around throwing off their balance. Plus the
hormonal storm tending to make them interested in other things.

> A gymnast might have as much as 10 years of practice and
> training before going to the Olympics - and might be winning
> medals based on skill 6 to 8 years into that window if they
> plan on making the Olympics.  How do we account for that?

Check the "training" rules in CT (as an example), then figure out what happens
when all the waking hours other than school and eating are devoted to practice.

That's *easily* 3-4 times the amount of time that is "normal" for working on a skill.
Which means they can pick up a lot of skill levels in a few years.

This is compensated for by the fact that the changes at puberty will tend to mess up
both dedication *and* dexterity, at least for a while.

Finally, most Olympic level atheletes *especially* the "prodigy" types qualify as
*extreme* cases of monomania.


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:26:44 -0800
From: shadow@shadowgard.com
To: The Traveller Mailing List <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] RE: Skills of the little ones
Message-ID: <3DEBDE24.1927.3587106@localhost>
In-Reply-To: <p05010400ba11a23aabfc@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <5D4EA4C196F27046B1E79E281B4CE4343DA796@SVLEXC04.hq.netapp.com>
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Message: 8

On 2 Dec 2002 at 15:51, David P. Summers wrote:

> >  If we're going to have girls like this (Ditzie, etc.) in real
> >  life, how do we account for this in the various character
> >  generation systems?  Do we assume that they are exceptions,
> >  or do we find some way to make an allowance?
>
> Of course in GT you just make up the character to fit the person you
> are modelling...

A non-game reality check here.

Even now it's possible to use drugs to do things such as delay puberty. This will get
even messier in the future.

So you may have to deal with "kids" who have decades of experience.

Not *quite* the same thing, but another factor to consider.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:10:51 -0800
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: Re : [TML] Heat and armor
Message-ID: <20021202.231051.1t7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
In-Reply-To: <20021028084456.C21105@freeman.little-possums.net>
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Message: 9

In mail (2002-Oct-28) you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> I think I worked out once that a world at about 0.1 AU from Sol
>> would have a surface temp up around 3000 C.
>
> How would it get there?

Spiralling in the same way some of those close GGs that have been
discovered?

> How long before it evaporates?

Don't know how long it'd take for the "lighter" stuff to go away. But
even at that temp, there are a *lot* of things that'll be solid or
liquid.

I have a list buried somewhere of the elements and compounds that would
be liquid or solid at that temp. It's about a page long.

It took a couple of hours of trolling thru the "Properties of Inorganic
Compounds" table in the CRC Handbook.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Blood and alcohol
Message-ID: <memo.746478@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Precedence: list
Reply-To: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk, The Traveller Mailing List
    <tml@travellercentral.com>
Message: 10

In-Reply-To: <11b.1aa93091.2b1d8c45@aol.com>
> er . . . Aslan . . . not cats . . .
>
> metabolisms . . . similar . . . enough . . . to . . . humans . . . to .
> . . eat . . . same . . . food . . . maybe . . . get . . . plotzed . . .
> on . . . same . . . stuff . . .

CATNIP!!!!

Mexal.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: [nothing whatever to do with] Willaim Shatner
Message-ID: <memo.746477@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Precedence: list
Reply-To: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk, The Traveller Mailing List
    <tml@travellercentral.com>
Message: 11

In-Reply-To: <132.17eb42b2.2b1d8a05@aol.com>
> I always try to arrange to meet female celebrities over the weekend, so
> they have trouble finding a magistrate for a restraining order. I road
> on an elevator with Elvira (misstress of the Dark) once.

Oooh... that's one of the few people I've always wanted to meet. If only
to ask her where she gets her dresses made (I have a similar, ahem,
chest...).

Best bit of that movie: Elvira curled up on a sofa presenting her
late-night horror show, "Good evening ladies and Dobermen."

Me, curled up on the sofa watching, with my Doberman on my lap!

Mexal.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 02:36:18 -0800
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Eduware
Message-ID: <20021203.023618.5t0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
In-Reply-To: <179.10b02c78.2aef455e@aol.com>
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Message: 12

In mail (2002-Oct-28) you write:

>>What exactly did they infringe? Or can't you say?
>
>
> Pretty much the entire game. They wrote a program in BASIC
> incorporating enormous chunks of the text (for example, if you called
> up the entry for snub pistol, you got a direct quote from the rules).

Hmm. I hadn't realized it was in BASIC.

I'd be interested in a copy of the code if I can get one legitimately.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 01:35:03 -0800
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] The Horror of Bureaucracy, or The Government Says It's
    Theirs Now
Message-ID: <20021203.013503.1f5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
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Message: 13

In mail (2002-Oct-31) you write:

> Brian G. Vaughan says
>>Perhaps the most evil company for whom I ever temped was an
>>insurance company.
> <snip horror story>
>
> It's a characteristic of large bureaucratic organizations. 
> I've worked for many insurance companies, both as an employee
> and as a consultant.  I've also worked for the Federal
> Government as a consultant.  I wrote the software that helps
> them do this sort of work.  I avoided becoming a lawyer, and
> look what I ended up doing.
>
> The asset forfeiture bureaucracy is far more impersonal and
> wretched than anything the insurance companies ever cooked
> up.  Asset forfeiture is a part of my campaign - it was
> originally used against pirates in real life, and it can
> really ruin a player character's day if the Imperials show up
> and take the ship - and all of their money and cargo.  The
> argument is that pirates may be guilty, but we don't have
> time to prove it.  But, if we have probable cause that a
> certain ship was involved in illegal activity (smuggling,
> piracy, etc.) we just take the ship.  And "crime" goes down,
> because it's hard to be a pirate or smuggler without your
> ship.  As an added bonus, the Imperials get cash when they
> auction off your ship and cargo.

This would not be a likely Imperialpractice as it tends to *discourage*
trade by increasing the "unpredictable" and *high* risks with no
offsetting means of protecting oneself.

> The players are left in the unenviable position of "proving"
> that their ship is "innocent".  If you get in certain types
> of trouble on planets that have an impersonal bureaucracy as
> a government IMTU, "this sort of thing happens all the time"
> or so your lawyer will tell you.  Then, in order to get him
> to help you, you'll have to promise him a percentage of your
> seized assets in order for him to "work things out" for you.
>
> And some people who get their assets seized are probably
> guilty of something - but that never comes up.  Some are
> undoubtably innocent, but that takes large sums of money, a
> lawyer, and a long time to prove - and the burden of proof is
> on the person whose assets are seized, not the government. 
> Most people don't have enough money to deal with this,
> especially after the government has taken all of it.  Even if
> you win, you don't usually get your property back, because
> they've already auctioned it off.  You'll get whatever it
> sold for at auction.

Maybe. But note that in the US, if you win the case they are stuck for
the *true* value, not what it fetched at auction. the courts are very
much *not* amused by civil forfeiture, especially the at the higher
levels of the appeals process.

> It's possible to request (in real life and IMTU) a specific
> model of car, boat, or aircraft.  When one is actually
> seized, you get first shot at keeping it for your agency,
> instead of having it auctioned off for cash.  There's an
> interesting unofficial side effect - the people making the
> seizures will keep an eye out for that type of vehicle.

And that's one of the things being reformed in the real world. The
seizing agency will *not* get to keep it. It has been found to
*encourage* abuses.

> Some Imperial special agents investigating smuggling need a
> ship to pretend to be smugglers.  But one of the agents is
> insistent on having a high end yacht with special hidden
> compartments.  Now they're styling in the latest luxury yacht
> from AuricTech shipyards...  seized from its owner only a few
> days after their request...

The prosecution rests.

Civil forfeiture laws will *not* survive in any system that has decent
levels of civil rights. Of course, that verges on a tautology, as they
are in and of themselves major violations of civil rights.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 02:39:13 -0800
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Hurricanes, weather modification, etc.
Message-ID: <20021203.023913.3I0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1036024715.2749.ajackson@ping>
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In mail (2002-Oct-30) you write:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>> >
>> > Weather systems are chaotic, but chaotic doesn't mean completely
>> > unpredictable, and chaotic effects are not necessarily visible on the
>> > timescales involved, which are fairly short.
>>
>> I beg to differ. It's chaotic effects that are *why* they've pretty
>> much given up on trying to forecast *weather* past the 4-5 day point.
>> Anything longer term than that is more of a "short term climate"
>> prediction.
>
> Sure.  However, 4-5 days of predictability is enough to deflect a
> hurricane.
>
>> And because of this, you may be able to determine that doing X will
>> cause rain now or in the next few days. Or deflect a storm.
>>
>> The problem is that weeks later you may find that you *caused* a major
>> storm or started a drought.
>
> Actually, no, since it's a chaotic system, you won't be able to tell. 

Not true. You can't *predict* long range, but that doesn't mean you
can't *backtrack* to see that if you hadn't done the weather mod, the
storm wouldn't have happened (or would have gone elsewhere).

Now consider that lawsuits can be based on this hindsight...

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

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Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:32:19 -0800
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Equipment - tactical mirror
Message-ID: <20021203.003219.9z7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021030191308.00a3a250@mail.comcast.net>
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Message: 15

In mail (2002-Oct-30) you write:

> At 09:35 AM 10/31/02 +1000, you wrote:
>> > From: Jeffrey Schwartz
>> > Well, being evil, I see it this way....
>
>>This sounds like a job for my TL 15 Lawyers' Ship, full of Men in Suits*.
>>
>><sniff> Amateurs who think they're evil... </sniff>
>
>
>
> There's evil, and then theres.... (shudder) Lawyers.
>
>
> Although a ship full of Lawyers going to a Plague planet would be pretty
> safe. None of the Jurists In Suits would have to worry about getting sick.
>
>
> (wait for it)
>
> You know, Professional Courtesy on the part of the Plague.

Nah. the Plague only affects humans...

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:23:38 -0800
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Death of Print? (and other OT stuff)
Message-ID: <20021202.232338.0a0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
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Message: 16

In mail (2002-Oct-28) you write:

> Loren Wiseman writes:
>> Fetish clubs scare me.
>
> Tell me about it.  I got taken to one by a friend once.  I turned up to
> one hoping for slick dark fashions and edgy industrial grooves a la
> "8mm".  What the hell was I thinking?  Welcome to the far more
> terrifying reality: leather-clad 30-40 somethings and bloody *70s
> music*.

Depends on the club. If it's customers are the type that *like* 70s
music, then that's what'll get played.

Also, if it's *really* a fetish club rather than one catering to what
one friend refers to as "S&M does *not* stand for "Stand & Model", the
music will be picked to be something that doesn't interfere with
"scenes".

> To quote Buffy, "Hands up if eww."

I might "eww" at the sort of music you were expecting. Though I'd be
more likely to if it was some types of C&W music.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:17:19 -0500 (EST)
From: hal@buffnet.net
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: [TML] Recruiting costs
Message-ID: <4228.24.48.38.226.1038917839.webmail@email1.buffnet.net>
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Message: 17

Hello Folks,
  One of the hidden costs of building a military seems to be that of
  recruiting soldiers.  It has now reached a cost of approximately $11,600
  per recruit.


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 12:31:25 +0000
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] (Volcanoes)  Smoking is bad for your health
Message-ID: <F28WuQ6Jznt77qjjlnE00024cf7@hotmail.com>
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Message: 18

Peeps,
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au asked me

>Does that mean you were on that flight over Indonesia? Made me glad I >was
>back home in Oz and not travelling around SE Asia at that time..

Lucky for me, no.  I just decided to use it as a 'flavour' seed.  But my old
man was working for British Airways at the time and he said they brought one
of the windscreen panels back to the UK - it looked as though someone had
been sandblasting it.  Other than a few minor incidents of turbulence, the
only really wild ride I care to mention was as an air cadet in a single
piston-engined Chipmunk 'trainer'; the pilot decided to show me what a
powerstation cooling tower looks like from about 1000ft above the rim,
amongst other "delights"...

Jeff (ryhmes with 'Mouse', not 'Posie') Rowse

"Helicopters can't fly - they're just so ugly, the Earth repels them!"

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End of TML Digest, Vol 2003, Issue 6
************************************