
-------- TML Message #1185 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1185
Subject: On tranqs and non-lethal weapons
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 90 11:56:37 +0100
From: Jim Cheetham <is_a063%ux.kingston.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>


	Hmmm, tranqs, huh ?
	Well, lets look at a couple of ways they've been used in fiction
	and real-life in recent history ...
	
	First of all we have the wide-area gas effects. Mainly inhaled,
	usually pretty dangerous, these are quite effective. The aim of
	most of these is to tranquilise in the broadest sense of the
	word - to render ineffective. Tear gas, light doses of war gases,
	anything that produces a disabling affect on the targets. If there
	are any serious side-effects, well, too bad. (The Stumm gas used
	by the Mega-City Judges has a 1 in a thousand death rate - perfectly
	acceptable for crowd control where you can be sure that they *all*
	have broken the law ... however, just a little *too* dangerous
	for even the Judges to use routinely :-)
	
	Next we want to look at the tranqs that are a little more selective
	in their targeting ...
	So, we have small gas grenades, that, when delivered *accurately*,
	only affect a few targets ... but they are affected grately by
	environmental effects (like a strong wind ...) And of course,
	the basic gas type is still the same as the ones above.
	Next up are the skin-absorbed chemicals (and if you've ever
	played paintball, you'll know just how easy it is for the stuff
	to pass through many layers of clothes) - but still the same
	arguments apply as to side-effects etc.
	
	So, we have to be very selective to ensure that the materiel gets
	delivered - and you see the sort of dart guns that African big-game
	hunters seem keen on sticking into rhinos ... these darts deliver
	a very large dose as quickly as possible, so if the dart gets
	brushed off by a charging rhino, it will still eventually fall over.
	Unfortunately, these darts can have a lot of side-effects related
	to the fact that they are very physical - get hit in the eye by
	one of those and you won't notice the tranq chemicals - you'll
	be dead. Also, they are very susceptible to simply not penetrating
	a tough outer layer if they hit at an angle - a common complaint
	with many missile weapons (but not nukes ... :-)
	
	Some very nice high-tech solutions to these common problems have
	been put forward - I draw mainly on Larry Niven's works here, for
	describing what amounts to TL8 and above.
	First of all we have needle-thin slivers of frozen/soluble tranq
	chemicals (which, is not made clear) fired at high speeds with
	powerful Gauss guns (the chemicals are assumed to have a high
	enough iron content to need no other delivery agent) that break
	the skin easily (being so small) and then dissolve directly into
	the blood stream. The slivers are so small that any that hit
	sensitive areas (such as the eyes) will cause minimal damage,
	and any that encounter normal clothing will be able to easily
	penetrate the weave of the material. The chemical itself must
	be similar to the non-overdosing ones mentioned by Metlay, as
	the basic idea is to pump your target full of them until you're
	sure you've hit him ...
	
	Then we have the non-chemical methods - ultra-sound stunners
	being the best method. I'm sure you've all noticed how sound
	vibration can have strange effects on the body - the basic
	function of the stunners is to make the central nervous system
	shut down into unconciousness. There are no chemical side-effects,
	and by quickly running up and down the frequency ranges that are
	effective on different species and races, a universal humane
	weapon can be quickly developed.
	
	Finally, we have what an intelligent victim will realise to be
	the most dangerous weapon of all ... the tasp, which directly
	stimulates the brain's pleasure centre by induction (OK, I know
	that induction isn't a direct method, but I mean that you're
	bypassing the normal routes to the pleasure centre). While the
	stimulation is going on, the victim is completely incapable of
	anything, and is experiencing the most *pleasurable* sensations
	possible. This can quickly lead to addiction to the source of
	stimulation, and only the most intelligent victim could correctly
	understand the threat of addiction, and what that would mean to
	his life. For more information on that, you are advised to read
	the stories that Niven has written dealing with Direct Current
	Stimulation Addiction (The Ringworld Engineers being the best).
	
	And as a final note, which methods are suitable to combat when
	enclosed in sealed suits (in space, hostile environments etc) ?
	Well, the stunners fail in space, and be less effective in thin
	atmospheres as they rely on transmission of vibrations, and the
	tasp could easily fail is the victim's suit acted as a Faraday
	Cage, keeping out all electro-magnetic radiations ... The sliver
	guns couldn't penetrate even light armour ...
	Are we left to consider psionic attack as the only non-lethal
	tranq effective left ?

	Anyway, I hope that this missive has introduced a few more ideas
	into the discussion of tranqs and non-lethal weapons ...
	Comments please !

[ Note for Larry Niven fans in the London area - he'll be in Hamwicks bookshop
  in Kingston-upon-Thames on Tuesday 10 April, from 12.30 till 1.30 with
  Steven Barnes signing copies of the Barsoom Project - -sequel to Dream
  Park, I think ...]
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     _____               (JANET) jcheetham@uk.ac.kingston
    (__ __) O  ______    (local) is_a063@ux.king
   (____)  (_)(_)()(_)   (voice) (+44) 1 549 1366 x2690
   Jim Cheetham, ISD Kingston Polytechnic.
   "... nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-------- TML Message #1186 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1186
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 90 09:13 EST
From: Bob Mahoney <BOBMAH%PSC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject: Getting together

I also like the idea of getting together with all you folks, but James is
right- plane fare (even low passage) is going to be nasty.

The idea of something more local might be a better place to start.  Just for
fun, how many of you are in the northeast US?  I know that there are three of
us here in NH, about 2 hours north of Boston (but I *already* know you people).

If you are in the New England area, and might possibly be interested in the
prospect of seeing how funny we all look, why don't you drop me a line?  I'm
sorry to hear that the lunches James tried didn't work as well as he had
hoped, but it can never hurt to try...

- -Bob

bobmah@psc.bitnet                  ("Dial before Midnight!")

-------- TML Message #1187 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1187
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 90 09:44:28 EDT
From: Fiver Toadflax <09nilles%cuavax.dnet@netcon.cua.edu>
Subject: Convention cost cutting

If you don't want to rent an entire convention room at a hotel, you might
want to try one of the area's local Schools, libraries or one to fit
the environment, a local game shop.  I would suspect that any or all of
these choices would cut down on the room costs.  Another thing to cut
down on room costs is if any people were willing to bunk 2 to a room.

                 Dave

+-----------------------------------------+
|          09nilles@cua.bitnet            |
|  09nilles%cuavax.dnet@netcon.cua.edu    | Money Talks.
| uunet!cua.bitnet!09nilles@uunet.UU.NET  |   Mine Only knows how to say bye.
| Fiver.Toadflax@f329.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG |
+-----------------------------------------+

-------- TML Message #1188 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1188
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 90 10:59:18 -0500
From: Mark Gellis <f3w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Subject: Missiles for spacecraft


Hi guys, I need help with a game design problem.

In my game world, spacecraft carry missiles (among other cheerful devices).
I am trying to figure out what kind of damage missiles would really do to
a spacecraft.  Here is a sample scenario...

A battleship, in my game world, masses 60,000 tons (= about 600,000 cubic
meters with my ship design system).  Its armor reduces the problems caused
by particle beams (those nasty neutrons!) and makes lasers a laughing 
matter, but there is only so much armor you can put on a spacecraft.  As
a result, missiles are still a problem.

Missiles are smart oversized bullets.  In my game world, they mass roughly
one metric ton (they look a lot like the shells from a 406 mm. howitizer).
They accelerate at 20 gees (= about 200 meters per second per second).  They
can be fired from a LONG way off.  Since they can boost the whole way, they
generally hit their targets moving at anywhere from 10 km./sec. to 100 km./
sec. (usually in the 50 km./sec. to 70 km./sec range).  In some cases, they
can be moving faster (if they are fired at VERY long range, which would 
give them perhaps 20 to 30 minutes to boost).  Oh, by the way, the warhead
(about 100 kg. of high explosives) can be used either on impact or as 
a proximity bomb that turns the missile from one big bullet into about
one thousand smaller bullets slowly spreading the radius of death.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to figure out what kind
of damage a single missile would do to a battleship (feel free to add
comments on what it would do to larger or smaller ships, please, I am
glad to get all the help I can).  Are we talking about severe damage but
some ship systems still working?  A disabled ship that must be towed or
abandoned but could still be repaired?  A shattered, lifeless hulk slowly
drifting off into the void?  

Thanks in advance for comments, suggestions, etc.

Mark Gellis
f3w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu

-------- TML Message #1189 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1189
From: "C. Harald Koch" <chk@alias>
Subject: Re: (1181) On tranqs, from the guy who wrote the book (literally)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 90 12:09:12 EDT

> PS> The implications of this technology are staggering, if one thinks about
>     it for a while. Just as two examples, it's possible for a society to
>     simultaneously eliminate accidental gun-related deaths and decriminalize
>     gun ownership, and the nature of police response to threat will also
>     change drastically (they're much more likely to go in shooting)....

This has shown up in several science fiction stories (those by Lois McMaster
Bujold, for example) wrt sonic weapons. The official response is "Shoot
first, ask questions later" because you really can do this. In a confusing
combat scenario, you knock everyone unconscious, and then sort things out
when they wake up.

Unfortunately :-), we often encounter this in our 2300 campaigns. When
Security spots you, they don't point a gun at you and say 'FREEZE!'; They
just shoot.  Makes it very important to post your own guards when breaking
into secure buildings...

- -- 
C. Harald Koch                        Alias Research, Inc., Toronto ON Canada
chk%alias@csri.utoronto.ca      chk@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu      chk@chk.mef.org
If awk is the Swiss Army knife of UNIX, then Perl is the Swiss Army chainsaw!
               -Author Unknown; related by <dplatt@coherent.com> (Dave Platt)


-------- TML Message #1190 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1190
Subject: Re: missiles
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 90 22:48:51 PDT
From: Leonard Erickson <leonard@tessi.UUCP>


Mark, at 50 to 70 km/sec a 100 kg warhead won't even be *noticed*.  The
kinetic energy of the impact of a 1 ton missile at those velocities is
equivalent to a *small* nuclear warhead. 

Ever see a picture of the Barringer Meteor Crater in Arizona? Your
missiles could make a crater like that. It was made by a body that
probably massed 100 times as much, but it was only traveling about
10 km/sec. So your missile would have the same energy if it was
going only *10* times as fast (E= m*v^2/2)

The kinetic energy of the missile is equal to converting 1/36 of a gram
of matter to energy. (assuming a 1 metric ton missile at 70 km/sec).
And if the missile is attacking from the front, the energy depends not
on the square of the missile's velocity, but on the square of the 
*sum* of the velocities!)

To put it simply, you *can't* armor against kinetic energy weapons.
Not when the velocities are tens to *hundreds* of km/sec. 


-------- TML Message #1191 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1191
Date:     Sat, 7 Apr 90 23:22:43 PDT
From: "John H. Kim" <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Re: missiles

Actually, for penetration, a kinetic energy weapon would
probably be better than a small nuclear device since all 
the damage would be concentrated in the immediate area of
impact (could punch thru more armor).

To get an idea of just how much energy is in one of your
high velocity missiles, I did a quick back of the envelope
calculation.

Assuming only the warhead is left (and it won't matter much
if it's explosive or just dead weight), at 50 km/s to 70 km/s
you get 125 GigaJoules and 245 GigaJoules respectively.

How much is that?  Take the Love Boat (or any other smallish-
medium ocean liner) and drop it (on Earth of course) from a
height of about half a kilometer.  That should be about right.

And imagine all that energy in the space of a 100 kg mass.


Hey, I finally tracked down the address to this mailing list
and got myself subscribed.  It's great to be here!
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU

-------- TML Message #1192 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1192
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 90 00:49:25 PDT
From: John Wilber <wilber%nunki.usc.edu@usc.edu>
Subject: Getting World UPP's

I noticed that the discussion about getting world UPP's is starting to
pick up again.  Instead of downloading from GEnie, with all its expenses
and problems that may be involved, I noticed that on the last page of
the _World_Builder's_Handbook_ by DGP, they are offering world building
software and UPP data on disks.

The world building software is $24.95 for IBM and Mac versions, and
$29.95 for Apple II and Commodore versions.

The "Second Survey Data" (as they call it) is priced identically to the
world building software above.  According the the blurb in the back of
the book, the Mac versions use HyperCard.  SSD is also said to contain
UWP data for *37* (WOW!) sectors in and near the Imperium.  "The World
Builder's Program can read this data and generate world detail sheets to
your heart's content," according to DGP.

They (DGP) say this stuff is available in January 1990, so you should be
able to order now.

DGP
8979 Mandan Ct.
Boise, ID 83709-5850

Has anybody seen this software yet?  Any opinions on it?

/*********************************************************************\
* John J. Wilber              * Let chaos work for you.  Use it to    *
* wilber@nunki.usc.edu        * advance your position in life while   *
* student, partier, anarchist * others are losing their positions (or * 
* and fun-loving guy.         * their lives).                         *
\*********************************************************************/

-------- TML Message #1193 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1193
Subject: TML Conventions
Date: 9 Apr 90 12:53:36 EST (Mon)
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!sequent!wdr@wang.COM (William Ricker)

James & all,

The suggested weekend, Labor Day, is the date for the annual World
Science Fiction Convention.  Last fall, it was here in Boston. We had
about 20 people attend a party for contributors/subscribers to several
of the role-playing game fanzines (hard-copy digested mailing lists)
there.  We get usually over a dozen for the RGP Fanzine party at
the Boskone annual regional SF con.  This tends to happen at other SF
and gaming cons. 

So... if you want to meet other TML subscribers:
(1) Check Analog's calendar and go to any local SF cons in your area,
and anywhere else you'd like to visit.
(2) Tell the TML where you going, so others going their can look for
you, and you can pick whose hotel room to have the party in.  (And also
arrange to share hotel rooms/driving etc.)

WorldCon 91 is in Orlando.  '92 is probably off-shore (I forget); 
San Francisco and somewhere inthe south-west are in the running for '93.  
All Labor Day.  
    I won't be at Orlando; if SFinSF wins, I want to take my wife to see 
the Golden Gate in '93.  Remind me closer to event & I'll get you the name
of the RPG APA party organizer.

Boskone is always (almost) Presidents Day Weekend (Feburary), currently 
at the Springfield MA Tara&Downtown Marriot. (Convenient to Hartford & Boston,
at I-90 & I-91). Feb 15-17, '91. I'll be there, and TMLers would be welcome
at the APA (fanzine) party.
     The other boston convention, Arisia, is two weeks before, 
Feb. 1-2, in the Cambridge Sonesta in '91.  ('90 was their first, a rave 
success.) I haven't done any partying there, but I'm sure it could happen.
I'll probably be there too.

bill ricker 
wdr@wang.com a/k/a wricker@northeastern.edu
*** Warning: This account not authorized to express opinions ***

-------- TML Message #1194 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1194
Date:     Mon, 9 Apr 90 12:50:30 PDT
From: "John H. Kim" <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Planet UPP's and software

I've been outside reality (at school) for the last 3 years
so I know nothing about new things in Traveller.  To remedy
that, I started to read through the archives of this mailing
list.  I'm still back in 1987 but one topic that seems popular
(and just came up in Sunday's topics) is programs for generating
worlds, systems, etc.  I'd like to know if anything has come of
those efforts I'm reading about back in 1987.  What software
is available commercially?  What software have you guys written?
Would it be legal to post such programs on this list?

I was planning on writing something up this summer, but if
someone's already done it...

Has anyone thought of saving those isocahedral planetary maps
as graphics files on computer?  I think it'd be awfully neat
to flip through them as if you were really flipping through
Imperial survey data on your ship's computer :-)  Or how about
a program that takes a planet's UPP, orbit, star type, albedo,
axis tilt and generates a map, weather patterns, ocean currents...

Come to think of it, has GDW ever published planetary maps of
some major worlds (like Regina) for general use, not as part
of an adventure?

I've got a million more questions but since most of them are
bound to answer themselves as I read on, I'll let them simmer
for now.  (Is Striker still around?  Are there deckplans for any
of those starships you guys posted?  Has anyone written a program
for making such deckplans?  Ugh, mgph, ha, get back in that pot...)
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU

-------- TML Message #1195 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1195
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 90 15:48 EST
From: Bob Mahoney <BOBMAH%PSC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject: Strephon: Man with a Mission

Ok, class.  We have two choices:  The "Real" Strephon is the real Strephon, or
the "Real" Strephon is one of a number of things that just *look* like the real
Strephon...

Now, if it's really Strephon, then one of his big concerns should be the big
concern of nearly every monarch you can name throughout history: a successor.
The dynasty must be carried on, either by, ah "active biological measures", or
by naming one of his distant relatives to be his successor.

If it's not the real Strephon, he still has to deal with this issue.  (pun!)

This is made all the more urgent by the apparent desire of Strephon to
personally lead his fleets into battle...


(Any of you ladies out there have any ambitious characters?)

Bob, asker of questions Big and Small.

-------- TML Message #1196 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1196
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Wimpy Gauss Weapons
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 90 15:14:01 PDT

I just fired up my Mega-Traveller campaign last Friday night and really got
the players moving.  However, as a result of a narrowly-avoided firefight,
one of my more experienced players voiced a loud objection to the numbers
given by GDW for weapon penetration in the Players manual.  When the player
in question discovered that the Gauss Rifles (TL 13) aboard their starship
couldn't penetrate Battle Dress or Combat Armor from the same tech. level,
he pointed out that this would be like sending soldiers into battle with
flak jackets, and arming them with weapons that couldn't kill an enemy
wearing the SAME flak jackets.

He has a point.

I would like to think that GDW gave more than just passing thought to the
numbers they picked for armor values and penetration values for the armor
and weapons used in MT.  I have consolidated the relevant information into
the 2 tables shown below (taken from Players' Manual, pp. 74,76, and the
Imperial Encyclopedia, pp. 75):

Armor              TL   Armor Value
- ----------------   --   -----------
Combat Env. Suit   10        6
Combat Armor-11    11        8
Combat Armor-12    12       10
Combat Armor-14    14       18
Battle Dress-13    13       10
Battle Dress-14    14       18

Weapon                    TL    Pen. Value*
- ------                    --    ----------
ACR 7mm                   10        4
ACR 9mm                   10        6
ARL 10mm------------------10       10
Gauss Rifle 4mm           12        7
Gauss Pistol 4mm          13        4
Laser Pistol-13-----------13        6
Laser Carbine-13          13       12
Laser Rifle-13            13       20
Integral Laser Pistol-14--14        6**

NOTES:
    *  - In most cases, these weapons have a variety of penetration values,
         base on their ammo type.  The number shown is the highest penetration
         available.
    ** - This penetration value is assumed to be the same a that of the
         Laser Pistol-13, since none is given in the Player Manual.

Plasma and Fusion weapons are deliberately being ignored as no sane referee
would let his players romp around with those things in tow during the majority
of a typical campaign. (My apologies to those Refs. among you who do, in fact,
allow this.  Please don't shoot me :-).)

Given these numbers, and the description of 'Zero Penetration' on pg. 70 of
the Players' Manual, the Combat Environment Suit, Combat Armor-11, Combat
Armor-12, and Battle Dress-13 can only be penetrated by the ARL, the Laser
Carbine and the Laser Rifle.  Further, the Combat Armor-14 and Battle Dress-14
can only be penetrated by the Laser Rifle!  Now, all of this is mitigated by
the fact that you can penetrate these types of armor if you achieve exceptional
success on your attack round, but that doesn't seem like something you should
be relying on.  The gauss rifle in particular has been significantly watered
down from it's original descriptions in Classic Traveller (Mercenary) and
Azhanti High Lightning.  Does this mean that gauss rifles are passe as battle-
field weapons?

Since the 4mm Gauss Rifle and Combat Armor-12 both evolved at the same Tech.
level (TL 12), and since the Gauss Rifle was obviously intended to be a
combat weapon, you would think it would be designed to routinely penetrate
the standard personal body armor of the period.  This strikes me as a
major oversight in the combat mechanics.

This brings us to the next topic: AUTOMATIC WEAPON FIRE.  Page 73 of the
Players' Manual describes auto-weapon fire as delivering 5 rounds per
trigger pull instead of 1.  While this may be used to hit multiple targets
adjacent to the primary target, the rules neglect some important points.

First, some weapons (i.e. Gauss Rifle and Pistol) have specific auto-fire
numbers given in the Imperial Encyclopedia (4 for the pistol, 4 or 10 for
the rifle).  Should these be used instead of the standard 5 listed in the
Players' Manual.

Second, if multiple targets are available, and you hit the primary target,
are the adjacent targets hit automatically or must you reroll for each?

Third, if you are in auto-fire mode and there is only a single target,
is he hit by all the auto-fire rounds?  If not, how many hit?  Do you
roll a separate attack for each round?  Are there any die modifiers
(positive or negative) for successive rounds?

None of these things are covered in the combat rules and they seem to
represent a major oversight, considering how many of the weapons have
auto-fire capability.

My initial reaction to these omissions is as follows:

First, have 2 different versions of the Gauss Rifle, a TL-11 and a TL-12.
The TL-11 version has a PV of 8, and the TL-12 version has a PV of 10.
All other stats. remain unchanged.

Regarding auto-fire: if a weapon has a specified fire rate, use it.
Otherwise, use the 5/rnd. rule.  Also, roll a separate attack for each
round, but if the first round hits, add +4 to the subsequent rolls to
reflect that the initial aimpoint was 'on target'.  Apply this bonus
only to Low Recoil weapons.  Medium Recoil weapons are not as controllable.

How do you deal with this sort of thing?

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1197 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1197
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 90 22:49:09 EDT
From: Chris Bartlett (Mouser) <cdba_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
Subject: A question...


I was thinking about the relative merits of gas giant refueling yesterday,
relative to dipping from a world's ocean.  Now, as I understand it, in
"real" life a gas giant, say, Jupiter, has a region of intense radiation
around it.  Now what I want to know is how this affects refueling operations
around a gas giant.  Can a starship with a hull armor factor of 40 withstand
this radiation long enough to skim enough fuel, or is it and its crew going
to get fried real quick?  Can some of the physics or astronomy types help
out? 

 I was maybe thinking that the size of the gas giant might be a factor.  For
example, Jupiter would be classified as a large GG, by _Scouts_ or _World
Builder's_.  If the ship could not withstand the radiation around a large
GG, how about around a small GG, say the size of Neptune?  It could have
interesting ramifications to those who would avoid the cost of refined fuel.

"Oh, you can't skim fuel from the gas giant, because the radiation is too
intense, but there's a world with an acceptable hydrosphere."

"But there's an enemy fleet stationed there!"

Oops.  8-(

Chris

- -------------
Christopher Bartlett			Warning! - Disgruntled Optics major
cdba_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu		"I've got a chip on my shoulder about
(somewhere in western New York)		the size of a mental block" 
(actually, the U. of Rochester) 			- Indigo Girls


-------- TML Message #1198 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1198
Subject: PBEM turn 4.0 (1 of 3)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 90 6:25:19 PST
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!agora.hf.intel.com!richard@tessi.UUCP (Richard Johnson)


Well, turn 4.0 is finally here.  Looks like a two-week
turn schedule is about what I can actually accomplish.
Sorry about not being able to do more - but sh** happens.

As I was preparing this turn initially (way back when..)
I had to make an extended driving trip to Eastern Oregon
for family stuff.  Lost an automobile engine 40 miles 
from the nearest town.  Took four days to return to
civilization.

This last week, agora went off-line for three days while
the sysop put in a newer, faster, bigger disk (it's about
time).  Simultaneously, the cost-cutters at work went 
after the uucp phone budget and axed my mailing anything 
from oresoft.

*Huge* backlog at agora.  (Anything to mailed to oresoft
I bounced to agora - so it might take a little longer
before you hear from me.)

The result of this is that it seems *something* is going
to make sure we don't any more than one turn every two 
weeks or so.  I'll keep trying to work one week intervals,
and we'll see if it gets any better.

Mmmm.  My SO (aka Rachael Turnskaad in another campaign) :)
just brought me some hot brownies to keep me awake until I'm
done with this tonight.

=================================
Relevant stuff below:

Go ahead and send in your department descriptions.  I'll include
them as they arrive.

If your character is psi, trained or just sensitive, and is willing
to communicate (or overhear) telepathically or telempathically, 
send me a note, and I'll make up a psi group for our alias files.

I tried to draw the Alcyon.  It wound up looking more like some kind
of fire demon.  Any volunteers?

That's all for this week.  For the time being, people who don't send 
participate in character interaction are assumed to be "working" and
are not socializing.  That is, you didn't get left behind.


Richard

-------- TML Message #1199 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1199
Subject: PBEM turn 4.1 (2 of 3)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 90 6:26:08 PST
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!agora.hf.intel.com!richard@tessi.UUCP (Richard Johnson)



You settle into the routine of shipboard life.  As with the rest of
your crewmates, you set about the tasks needed to finally get the
Alcyon into jump space.  

The chemical strap on boosters have long since jettisoned
themselves, letting you drift silently away from the asteroids, and
your last bit of civilization for at lest the next week.

There is a brief hiatus in the preparations, as engnieers scramble
to get the rider ships hooked up and tested before you jump.

- ----------------
Bhyarrvouf is excited as a teenager on his first date as he readies 
the drives for the leap into hyperspace... perhaps TOO excited. He seems 
jumpy and snappish at times, almost fearful at others, as if he were 
expecting something bad to happen and was trying to put the thought of 
it out of his mind....


"Engineering, Johann here. We'll have to patch the computers of the 
riders and the computer of the Alcyon together before we jump, Well 
actually we can't jump if the links arn't in place! I'll need someone 
with good engineering skill"

"Any takers?"


So Zben, and Aaron head out and make the physical links to the riders,
while you are all in free-fall.

Meanwhile, Nishu completes the nav routines, and runs through all the
calculations a second time (since he's also waiting on those engineers)
to verify the jump.

Although preprogammed, Nishu knows enough nav to figure out that this
particular jump is supposed to dump you guys out in empty space, 5
parsecs away.  

Command and Transport aren't talking (at least openly) about what this 
means or what they expect.


- ----------
After about five hours, engineering and transport give the go-ahead signal.

No matter how many times you make that tumble, it always comes as a
bit of a surprise.  You *know* viscerally that more than one person
here has lost lunch, not just from the tumble, but also from the 
excitement.  [everyone roll 2D6, to keep your lunch:
              endur or better,  DM + years in space, 
                                   - months since last jump
              if you fail, you got space sick.  The difference between
              what you got and what you need is number of minutes
              you are ill.  The bigger the difference, the more 
              violently ill you are.  Critical failure (unmodified 2)
              and you are out of it for now -- a trip to/from a
              medic is in order.]


So now, having a little time to wander about the ship, here's what 
she looks like on the inside:  [I'll take submissions for your part, too
if you want to do this - this is from a Transport team member]

The bridge of the Alcyon is on the large side of cramped, about 10 meters
long and 8 meters wide, tapering towards the front to 5 meters wide.  Lighting
is dim white (to aid night vision), with red as an option.  A set of view
ports at the front allows vision outside.  The deck is ridged for traction,
and the walls are mostly simple white panels about a meter on a side.

At the head of the bridge are the pilot (left) and co-pilot (right) stations.
In addition to the long dashboard-type console, each station has a control
stick mounted next to their acceleration chair and a pair of footpedals on
the floor beneath the console.  Both stations are holodynamic, with HUD data
projected over the viewports.  The co-pilot's controls are usually slaved to  
the pilot's; even when both are active, pilot input will override copilot.  

Behind the flight controls, in the center of the bridge, is the command
chair.  The conn includes a small computer terminal on a swing-up arm.  Through
this terminal the commander has access to all command functions, including 
library data and security systems.  Unlike the other bridge chairs, which can
swivel over an arc of about 90 degrees, the conn can turn a full 360 --
allowing the commander to view any station, including the holodisplay.

The holodisplay, directly behind the conn, consists physically of a pair of
projection rings a meter across, mounted on the floor and ceiling.  The
projection area is a cylinder about two meters in diameter.  The holodisplay
can be used to show sensor readings, navigational data, computer displays,
or communications. 

Facing each other through the holodisplay are the navigation (left) and
sensor/comm (right) stations.  Each station has an acceleration chair facing
a console slightly more than a meter long, which is holodynamic.  Both stations 
use the holodisplay for readout, and may "split" it into two different images.

At the back of the bridge is a small assembly/observation area, about two
meters long and eight meters wide, as mentioned.  On the back wall, next to the
iris valve, is a computer station (right, or left facing the exit).  This
station is not usually manned, and is used for readouts on ship's systems and
computer queries.
- ------------------------

All of the scientists, both social and physical types, can be found poring
over data, running to another terminal, and just genrally being busy 
creating models, projections, and helping out everyon else.

- -------------------------

A short time after the Alcyon makes its way into jump space and all the
pressing engineering tasks are complete, Christian tracks down 'Vouf --
wherever he's hiding himself. :-) "It doesn't take much to realize that
you've been avoiding a medical exam", says Dr. Van Der Merwe with a wry
smile on his face. "As an IISS flight surgeon, I'm quite proficient in
xenomedical areas, and I happened to review the latest in Vargr medical
journals before we left, so you can rest assured there. Since you have
some free time now, let's go and get the exam over with, shall we?"

Bhyarrvouf, whom everyone's used to seeing as ebullient and forceful,
starts to tremble at the sight of Dr. van der Merwe. His ears fold back 
flat and his tail curves so far forward between his legs that it almost 
touches Dr. van der Merwe's leg. "Um, I really have some other stuff to 
do, Doc. I was so busy doing Engineering stuff I never got around to 
looking at the holotapes they made for the Generalists and since I'm off 
shift this would be a great  time I'm REALLY sorry maybe we can 
reschedule it for later this week I'm just really run off my tail what 
with one thingananother..."

He's backing away as he says this....then backs into a wall. He jumps a meter
in the air at the touch of the cold metal, yelping fearfully, then seems to 
wilt. "All right, Doc," he mutters. "Let's get this over with. Which way to 
Sickbay?"

While viewing Bhyarrvouf's unusual reaction, Dr. Van Der Merwe simply stands
in the corridor. He lifts his right eyebrow in a mixture of amusement and
concern at this uncharacteristic display by 'Vouf. He gestures down the
hallway, toward the connecting corridor with the Aurora. "Right this way
to my office." He stands aside to let 'Vouf pass, and then follows behind
him until they reach the cabin in the Aurora where Sickbay has been set up.

Quite some time later, 'vouf reappears from the door to the sawbones, 
practically prancing.  He exchanges a few words quietly with the Doc, and
then starts down the hall.  "Well, what're all you Pinkstinks staring
at, anyway!?  Getcher butts BACK TO WORK!"


-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1200 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1200
Subject: PBEM turn 4.2 (3 of 3)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 90 6:27:12 PST
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!agora.hf.intel.com!richard@tessi.UUCP (Richard Johnson)


About 30 minutes after breakfast, your first morning out, your
intercom comes to life:

"All hands muster on the main rec deck.  All hands to the main rec
deck.  Morning muster will be held in 10 minutes."

Around you you can hear the sounds of others also preparing for the
morning ritual.  "Wonder how they'll like if I show up half shaved."
and "The way I'm feeling right now, they'll be lucky if they see me
by noon." and so forth.  Nevertheless, you know inside that this is
important, so you find it somewhere within you to go there, if only
to get your morning coffee.

- ---------------------------------------------

You have all gathered in the main recreation area of the Alcyon,
except for a very few of you in critical positions that must be
occupied at all times.  The rec deck is not as large as you would like
for a gathering of this many people.  It is shoulder-to-shoulder
bodies.  In the time-honored military tradition, you have grouped
into your respective teams, and your command tem rep has taken
roll.

In turn, each of the command team reps walks to Admiral Ger and
quitely reports departmental status and body count.  He then returns
to his team.


Admiral Ger rises to address you.  In the case of those on station, 
the image is holo-projected at your position.  He speaks:

Good morning, fellow travellers.  We have now embarked on an epic-making 
journey.  We are travelling into the unknown.  What we might discover
there, no one knows.   However, we know there are dangers.  We are all
individually prepared to face them.  Now we must accept the challenge
of facing the unknown and its dangers as a team.  Our best chances lie
with working together.


I have a few announcements to make this morning.

First:  Many of you have not reported in.  Please contact your command
team rep (drop them some E-mail) right away, and let them know you are 
present!  Command team reps are:

	Engineering:	Johann Abuko
	Transport:	Etienne de Mer
	Security:	Lazer Farouk
	Med/bio:	Christian van der Merwe
	Phys. sci:	Karl Morser
	Soc sci:	Dave Sokuku
	Generalists:	Ralf

[If you can't reach yours, or if I'm wrong - fire up the GM!]


=============
Second:  To date, only nine people have reported for their physicals.  
We need to get this done.


=============
Third:  We have some preliminary results of our continuing evaluation of
those R-alpha tapes they showed us.  In a nutshell, we've determined:

   there is roughly 1-g at the surface, 

   whatever power is used must come from solar collectors somewhere 
   (rather than artificially produced),

   light gases (like Hydrogen) are extremely rare in R-alpha's
   atmosphere,

   the outside surface of the ring is a hardened, recently (in 
   cosmic terms) repaired, alloy,

   there is weather, but we're unsure of the overall air mass flow,

   there are CO2 (imagine a subscript) concentrations - suggesting
   animal life or open fires -- likewise small methane concentrations
   indicating herbivores,

   definitely artificial - no indication why it has been missed before.


We'll be continuing discussion of what we know during the jump.  Your 
comments are welcome, but please remember that right now we want to 
stick to facts; we can speculate later.


=============
Fourth:  I have been approached by several people about being on the 
"first" team to the surface, or to organize the away teams. Here, 
several parsecs from our destination, I have ideas for 14 jobs. Highly 
dangerous jobs ar marked with a *, and may not be taken by command crew.

Some of these jobs will require full teams, others just one or two people.
Mission duration is highly variable, but they will be initiated in the
order given below. These are all subject to changes based on new data.

Job 1: Probe Controller:
	Desingate a course for the probe inside the ring and collect data.

Job 2: System survey:
	Examine the solar system for objects not directly associated with
	R-Alpha.

Job 3: Exterior surface ananysis: *
	Match velocity with "underside", walls, and wall-tops, and gather 
	data.

Job 4: Initial flyby: *
	Attempt to match velocities with r-Alpha, and take an atmosphere
	sample. Subject to probe data analysis.
	
Job 5: Surface mapping: *
	Fly-by of entire surface, using high-speed visual equipment,
	generate a rough map of the surface. Depending on conditions and
	equipment capability, this my be a retrograde maneuver.
	
Job 6: Auxilary sturture analysis:
	If such structure exists (day/night cycling, solar energy
	collection, system defenses), investigate by close flyby (possible
	landing), and collect data.

Job 7: Initial landing:
	Choosing an un-interesting spot on the surface. Match velocities,
	discharge grav test vehicle?, and land shuttle? Test out various
	pieces of equipment. Frist surface mission.

Job 8: Satellite placement:
	Launch satellites, or affix them to the tops of the wall at
	the appropriate points in relation to the base camp.
	
Job 9: Base camp set-up:
	Land, and set-up the base camp.

Job 10-14: Site Alpha/Beta/Chi/Delta/Epsilon investigation:
	Based on previous surveys, visit the four-five most interesting
	spots via shuttle or grav transportation.

Remember the atmosphere is presumably rotating  at the same speed as the
surface. When a shuttle enters the atmosphere, it should be able to use the
air to keep it in place... ie fly through the air.

Also, We still need a few people to help create a ring simulation for 
R-alpha landing practice.  If done right, you guys could also 
use the simulation to pre-test some of your theories about how 
this ring is built, what gravity it has, and so forth.  Notify 
Eneri de Aith if you're up for this.

Any suggestions for new/overlooked jobs, contact me. Volunteers for various 
jobs, see your team leader, and cc myself.


=============
Fifth:  More than a few of you have indicated a serious dislike of having
your weapons locked away in a major armory.  No one, other than
our security team, has objected to anyone carrying weapons.  There
have been rumors of a few hot tempers as we settle in, and even
death threats.  No one has acted on them.  Please continue to 
demonstrate this self-restraint.

A more pressing concern is just how lethal some of your sidearms
can be to the integrity of your ship.  Some of you are packing 
heavy artillery.  I don't expect anyone, with the exception of
security, to worry about fighting those kinds of duels.  This is
supposed to be a PEACEFUL mission of exploration and discovery.

Here is a compromise proposal that I hope will cool everyone off - 
and it's OFFICIAL.  For everyone except security personnel:

[Actually Richard is usurping just about everyone here and hopes 
he doesn't alienate too many of you - now you know where to aim 
your flamethrowers.]  

All ranged weapons, other than your issue stun pistol, are to be 
locked up.  You can either turn them in to security, or you can 
*lock* them in your personal effects locker.  You can keep ONE 
loaded magazine for each weapon in your locker.  In the locker, 
not in the weapon...

You can keep your personal blades and point-blank-only (like laser
sword or force blade) energy weapons on your person.  High energy
tools, like torches or gas chromatographs, are the responsibility
of the various team leaders.  Keep an eye on them and make sure they
don't get used for sabotage or whatever. 


==========
Sixth:  Everyone should engage in the various training excercises we 
have available, while we are underway.  Physical conditioning is on the
Corondor Talisman every morning and every evening.  Personal weapons 
practice and zero-G drills are also on the Talisman; arrange times
with Lazer Farouk or Thule Jonson.   

Sensor operations, navigation, and piloting excercises are on the Paladin 
every morning at 08:30.   Everyone with any skill at all in these areas 
is needed.  [Write the GM for details, if you don't have them already.]  

The Paladin't computers are being largely turned over to scientific 
programming for the duration of the jump.  See Alexander Nayduz, Karl 
Morser, and Dr. Werner, to schedule time.




=============================
{non-speaking activity insert:

Those of you in the rec room notice the tell-tales on psi shields 
occassionally start to flicker.  If you are psi, you might notice
someone "touch" your automatic (internal) shield if you are not 
using [wearing it switched off doesn't count :-)] a shield helmet.

    [roll 2D6, int or less to notice flickering]


[Any psi-trained character who wishes to be available for psi 
contact with  "like-minded" individuals, contact the GM.  I am 
compiling a list for those who volunteer this information.

- -- yes even the one who did the above stunt.  You know who you are,
   but I accidentally lost the note I scribbled your name on. ]
}


Well. That's about it for today.  As you can see we all have a lot 
to do.  There is something special about being the first to go in.
There is also something special about doing the job really well.
Let's do both.


Carry On.
	-Admiral Ger.


======================
With this the admiral turns and leaves the rec deck.  He heads in 
the general direction of the Alcyon's bridge.



-------- TML Message #1201 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1201
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 90 10:52:14 EDT
From: Chris Bartlett (Mouser) <cdba_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
Subject: Getting together


I think it's a great idea!  It would great just to meet everybody, and I
think it would be a hell of a lot of fun to play MT with you guys face to
face.  Unfortunately, I am a poor college student, and as James pointed out,
the costs could be (and are) prohibitive.  

But hey, if anybody is in the western New York area, you're cordially
invited to stop by for a beer.

Chris



-------- TML Message #1202 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1202
Subject: Re: Planet UPP's and software 
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 90 08:15:08 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


John Kim states he's been reading about programs being undertaken to
generate worlds and systems, and wants to know what became of the
efforts.

There are several commercial programs available containing generation
programs and official sector data from GDW's Imperium Campaign: GDW
produced some for Apple ][ some time back, and Digest Group Publications
produced IBM, Mac, Apple ][, and Commodore (Amiga, I presume) versions
of a World Builder program (detailed system/world generation) and the
IISS Second Survey Sector Data (37 Imperium and nearby sectors).

There are some small offerings on the Traveller Mailing List written by
listees.  I wrote gensec, a sector/subsector world UWP generator, and
mapsub, which turns gensec output into hex grid maps, either in ascii
(line printer) format or postscript (laserprinter) format.  Phill
Everson and Gareth Waddell wrote a program that generated systems in
accordance with Scouts (Book 6) Expanded System Generation.  Paul
Netherwood wrote a program to expand UWP's into a more human-readable
format.  Bill Morrison wrote a program to generate REAL star systems,
not specifically for Traveller, but in accordance with modern
astrophysical simulation.  Jo Jaquinta wrote a "1,000,000 stars" program
as an example of keeping a database of 1,000,000 stars for a PBM via
generating them as needed via a small algorithm.  All these are
available from the TML Archvies, maintained by yours truly, as TML
Packages SW1 through SW8.

Most importantly, there is a discussion list for this very topic, which
has been chartered to act as a mailing list peripheral to the TML.  It
is maintained by Bill Morrison, and you should contact him to join.
Here's the blurb from the TML Orientation message:

Star System Digest: morrison@pyr.gatech.edu (Bill Morrison)
	This person collects messages relating to computer methods of
	the generation, representation, and display of star system data,
	digests it, and resends it weekly to the Traveller Mailing List.

Actually, "weekly" is a misnomer, "periodically" would be a much more
apt description.  I strongly urge anyone planning to spend time
developing a system to join this discussion and get everyone fired up
about developing a program; progress is slow and comes in spurts -- I
think we're all pretty busy at our jobs most of the time.

As for legality of posting, it is legal to post your own programs to the
list, or adjustments to previously-posted programs.  It is legal to post
small snippets of data from existing copyrighted sources, in accordance
with law permitting "fair use" of copyrighted material.  As far as I am
concerned, any information posted by GDW or DGP, or members of those
organizations, to other public bulletin boards, are fair to post on the
Traveller Mailing List.  Specifically, anything submitted for public
dissemination by Joe Fugate or Gary Thomas is okay.

> Has anyone thought of saving those isocahedral planetary maps
> as graphics files on computer?  I think it'd be awfully neat
> to flip through them as if you were really flipping through
> Imperial survey data on your ship's computer :-)  Or how about
> a program that takes a planet's UPP, orbit, star type, albedo,
> axis tilt and generates a map, weather patterns, ocean currents...

Yes, I have, and I'd love to come up with a program to generate, store,
and display these on my Sun workstation or dumb ascii terminal at home,
and be able to browse through world maps, UWPs, subsectors, sectors, and
quadrants.

> Come to think of it, has GDW ever published planetary maps of
> some major worlds (like Regina) for general use, not as part
> of an adventure?

I don't believe so.

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	  James T. Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com	  Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

-------- TML Message #1203 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1203
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 90 11:48:41 PDT
From: And now for something completely different! 10-Apr-1990 1442 <baranski@meridn.enet.dec.COM>
Subject: scanning maps...

Recently someone mentioned having maps on their home computer.  If there are a
few people who have maps that they would like digitized, I have access to a
Digital scanner.  I can produce postscript, DDIF, sixel, and a couple of other
odd formats.  The scanner is on a VMS VAX system.  I can get to TK50/70 tapes,
and 3.5" 'floppies' easily.

Jim Baranski
Norwich CT

-------- TML Message #1204 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1204
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 90 22:16:36 EDT
From: Andrew Salamon <salamon@sun.udel.edu>
Subject: Forum-net?

Just out of Curiosity (yes I meant it to be capitalized):  How many of you out 
there, especially the PBEM'ers, have access to Forum-net?  If, by some remote 
chance, enough of us do have access we could try to arrange a time to have a 
real-time traveller game!

  I just canceled my senior thesis :) so I might have some free time the
rest of this semester.  Which is why I came up with this silly idea.

  BTW: I will be going to UCSD for grad school starting in September.
Is there a large enough group of Traveller players there to start a
campaign?  Does anyone have time?  Is it easy to find apartments in the
La Jolla area? (ooops, how did that slip in there?)

  Ta.

Magic in my Mind                     |   /Andrew/
Music in my Heart                    |   soi-disant Bleydion op Rhys
Laughter in my Soul                  |   salamon@sun.acs.udel.edu
And...A Sword in my Fist (sigh)      | 

-------- TML Message #1205 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1205
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Maps of Regina
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 90 10:10:03 MET DST

In "(1194)  Planet UPP's and software" "John H. Kim" <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu> writes:
> Come to think of it, has GDW ever published planetary maps of
> some major worlds (like Regina) for general use, not as part
> of an adventure?

   The old 'Grand Survey' by DGP included a map of Regina. I *think* it is in
the World Builders Handbook as well, but I'm not sure about that. 
   Note, however, that this was the only planetary surface map in the 'Grand
Survey' and was included as an example of planet-building.
   MegaTraveller Aliens Vol1 (also DGP) has maps for Vland and Lair, but there
are some bugs in the Vland map, compared to the map of Vland published in the 
'Travellers Digest' # something (between 4 and 8, I think) (also DGP).
   There have been a few maps in the 'Travellers Digest': Capitol(?), Terra,
& Vland are the only ones that I remember.

   When it comes to maps in adventures, my knowledge is more limited 
(ie: Non-existent :-)

Standard Disclaimer: I work for nobody :-)

- -bertil-
- -- 
Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se 
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      
"I say cut his air!" "I say cut his heat!" "I say raise his rent!" "Hey, we're 
trying to get rid of an Alien, not evict a tenant!" Alien - American MAD version

-------- TML Message #1206 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1206
From: carson@tron.bwi.wec.COM
Subject: Regarding get togethers 
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 90 02:15:01 EDT

   This weekend (4/13-4/15) is Balticon at the Hunt Vallet Inn just
north of Baltimore.  I'm staying at the Courtyard across the street and
would be glad to see anyone else who is there.
   For a little more notice 7/13-7/15 is Atlanticon (mid atlantic gaming
con) at the Baltimore Sheraton Inner Harbor.  I'm writing BA01 Early
Release using Ringworld rules and would be happy to try to kill any of
you :-).

Dana Carson
Westinghouse Electronic Systems Group  Mail Stop 1615
UUCP:carson@tron.UUCP 
     carson@tron.bwi.wec.com
     ...!uunet!tron!carson
work: (301) 765-3513
home: (301) 255-9579
WIN: 285-3513


-------- TML Message #1207 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1207
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Wimpy Gauss Weapons
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 90 11:38:21 MET DST

In "(1196) Wimpy Gauss Weapons" "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:

> one of my more experienced players voiced a loud objection to the numbers
> given by GDW for weapon penetration in the Players manual.  When the player
> in question discovered that the Gauss Rifles (TL 13) aboard their starship
> couldn't penetrate Battle Dress or Combat Armor from the same tech. level,
> he pointed out that this would be like sending soldiers into battle with
> flak jackets, and arming them with weapons that couldn't kill an enemy
> wearing the SAME flak jackets.
> 
> He has a point.

   A TL-12 gaussrifle will penetrate (low penetration) TL 10 to 13 combat armor
and TL 13 battledress if pinpoint location is used. 
   This is somewhat like the situation before the advent of automatic weapons
where a soldier have to take careful aim in order to accomplish anything.
   Even versus TL-14+ armours it will do the minimum damage based on the degree
of exceptional success. (But that would be true even of a sawed-off shotgun vs
TL-15 battledress :-/

   By this numbers, it would seem that the the Gauss-rifle is only used as a
frontline standard infantry weapon at level 13 (Ye olde 'Mercenary' says that
at TL-12 it's only used as a sniper-rifle). And that it is superceeded by
energyweapons at higher techlevels.

> The gauss rifle in particular has been significantly watered
> down from it's original descriptions in Classic Traveller (Mercenary) and
> Azhanti High Lightning.  Does this mean that gauss rifles are passe as battle-
> field weapons?

   I think that the greatest bugs in the data for the Gaussrifle in the MegaT is
the fact that it's difficulty profile is listed as 'Rifle' when, according to
the description in the Imperial Encyclopedia it should have a diff as 'Rifle**'
(ie Gyrostabilized Rifle with Scope). With this modification, it is a ok
weapon if one takes advantage of pinpoint and remembers that the vast majority
of users of a gaussrifle has +2 to the task (+1 for Skill-1 & +1 for Dex 5+).
(Yes, I know about the major bug in the pinpoint-rules :-(

   
   For military applications, however, there is a nice solution to the problem.
(But it is probably to heavy for players to run around with). The RAM auto
grenade launcers (high TL) have a pentetration of around 36 for HEAP, thats
high penetration against battledress-15! 
   Since weapons like this (The russian 'Plamya' 30mm auto-GL) can be used for
direct fire today (Terra TL-8 :-), I see no reason for restricting any of the
weapons on the 'Grenade Launcher' list of the Players Manual to Indirect fire.
Especially since RAM grenades are rocket assisted and thus have a much flatter
trajectory than 'ordinary' grenade-launchers grenades (that are more like the
ones that are used in the M203 (the big black tube under the barrel on some 
M16's))
   But indirect fire gives a longer range, so the method that I have used is
allowing direct fire as 'Rifle' whith a maximum range *one range less* than the
indirect fire's max range.
   And sooner or later, someone is bound to get the idea to mount grav-
compensators on a RAM Auto GL to be able to run around and play rambo with the
piece...
   The automatic fire feature of a RAM Auto GL will give it an advantage, even
over a plasma or fusion weapon, at least as long as it has ammo...

And, best of all:
   The weight if it will keep the players from using it :-)

> First, some weapons (i.e. Gauss Rifle and Pistol) have specific auto-fire
> numbers given in the Imperial Encyclopedia (4 for the pistol, 4 or 10 for
> the rifle).  Should these be used instead of the standard 5 listed in the
> Players' Manual.

I use the Encyclopedia figures. 

> Second, if multiple targets are available, and you hit the primary target,
> are the adjacent targets hit automatically or must you reroll for each?

Reroll for each.

> Third, if you are in auto-fire mode and there is only a single target,
> is he hit by all the auto-fire rounds? 

Probably not, especially since the firer don't controll where these rounds will
hit. They are just extra rounds that flies 'in the general direction' of the 
primary target.

> First, have 2 different versions of the Gauss Rifle, a TL-11 and a TL-12.
> The TL-11 version has a PV of 8, and the TL-12 version has a PV of 10.
> All other stats. remain unchanged.

Short Discussion on Armor Penetration:
[Oh no! He's gonna apply pseudo-real-life physics on Traveller! Stop him! ]

   By using several pieces of data in a way that they not were intended to be
used :-) I arrive at the conclution that Penetration 7 is equivalent of being
able to penetrate 1.75 cm of armor plate steel. Penetration 8 and 10 are 
equivalent of 2 and 2.5 cm ditto. (I got here by using rule 5B in TD#15,
'Radiation Exposure and Treatment' that is about thickness of armour)
   A gaussrifle fires it's ammo at (i think) 1km/s. Maximum possible penetration
from a kinetic round is achieved when the speed of the round exceeds the speed
if sound in the material that the round is made of (4km/s to 6km/s, I think)
   As a quick rule of thumb, I'd say that the penetration (in cm) goes up by
1.5 every time the speed of the round is doubled (up to max 6km/s).
(I got this figure from a guy who have worked with tank weapons, but he
 warned that it was very approximate.)
   This would give a 2.63 cm penetration if the round was fired with 2km/s
instead of with 1km/s. 2.63 cm equals penetration 10.
   The kinetic energy of the round, and the energy needed to accelerated, would
double twice, to 4 times the original amount.

   Summary: having a gaussrifle with a penetration of 10 is Ok, but it would
probably be heavier that a standard gaussrifle.

   (I checked this against the VRF Gauss Gun  (that fires ordinary gauss-rounds
but with 4km/s, and has penetration 20 (5.95 cm armor plate steel) and that
gives a factor of 1.85 every time the speed of the round is doubled. The
'true' value is probably somewhere around 1.7 - 1.9 instead of 1.5)

Disclaimer: The author is not responsible for characters killed as a result
of the application of, or errors in, the suggestions above :-)

- -bertil-
- -- 
Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se 
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      
"I say cut his air!" "I say cut his heat!" "I say raise his rent!" "Hey, we're 
trying to get rid of an Alien, not evict a tenant!" Alien - American MAD version

-------- TML Message #1208 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1208
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: A question... (About radiation and hulls)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 90 12:12:08 MET DST

In "(1197) A question..." Chris Bartlett (Mouser) <cdba_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> writes:
> I was thinking about the relative merits of gas giant refueling yesterday,
> relative to dipping from a world's ocean.  Now, as I understand it, in
> "real" life a gas giant, say, Jupiter, has a region of intense radiation
> around it.  Now what I want to know is how this affects refueling operations
> around a gas giant.  Can a starship with a hull armor factor of 40 withstand
> this radiation long enough to skim enough fuel, or is it and its crew going
> to get fried real quick?  Can some of the physics or astronomy types help
> out? 

   I don't claim to be either a physics or astronomy major, but here is what
stands in the Radiation rules in TD#15 on the subject of cosmic radiation and
radiation belts.

   The hull of a standard starship (Factor 40 Bonded superdense) has a shielding
factor of around 2000 (1000 if you go exactle by the book and 2000 if you do
it mathematically :-) (For those interested I can mention that a factor 40
bonded superdense hull is about 1 inch thick (2.31 cm))
   
   Cosmic radiation is given as up to 3000 units per day in a radiation-belt
(I guess that this implies earth-type radiation belts like the Van Allen. I'm
not sure whether the belts around major GG's are stronger than this, but I 
guess that they are. Here I have guessed that they are a factor 10 stronger.)
   30000 units per day means 1250 units per hour (dead within 15 minutes).
But a hull will decrease this by 2000 times to 15 units per day. That is no
*immediate* health threat, but it will be bad news for the descendants of the
crew...
   But remember that this is the *maximum* value in the radiation belts.
And if they are shaped like the Van Allen belts this will occur somewhere 
between 1 radius and 3 radiuses over the surface (wild guess). So any sane pilot
would go full throttle down to the atmosphere of the GG to avoid spending
too much time in the area of maximum radiation.

   But beware of drifting in orbit around a GG in a disabled ship for longer
periods...

- -bertil-
- -- 
Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se 
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      
"I say cut his air!" "I say cut his heat!" "I say raise his rent!" "Hey, we're 
trying to get rid of an Alien, not evict a tenant!" Alien - American MAD version

-------- TML Message #1209 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1209
From: plb@violin.att.COM
Subject: Whew!  Loads of data!
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 90 13:04:05 EDT

Operating System: HP-UX A.B7.00 U
Organization: AT&T-BL, Red Hill System Administration Group (HRSAG)
Location: HR 1F138
Phone: (201) 615-4419
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL16]

Well!  Just got my copy of World Builder's Handbook in the mail
yesterday!   I can't believe how much stuff is in there!   It
occurred to me though that if you generated that level of data on
every planet/system in a sector that you could end up with
something resembling the Encylopedia Britannica.   

What guidelines do other refs' use to determine when to use all of
those tables to their lowest levels?

- -- 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Peter L. Berghold            |  AT&T, HRSAG, +1 (201) 615-4419        |
|INTERNET: plb@violin.att.com |  UUCP: {uunet!allegra|att}!violin!plb  |
|FAX: 1(201) 706-2004         |                                        |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------- TML Message #1210 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1210
From: Matt Burdick <burdick@hpindbl.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: Planet UPP's and software
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 90 10:18:26 PDT

> Bill Morrison wrote a program to generate REAL star systems, not
> specifically for Traveller, but in accordance with modern astrophysical
> simulation.

If you're thinking of the Starform (aka Accrete) program, that was actually
done by me.  Version 3.3, by the way, is currently available.  It generates
moons for each planet using the same accretion algorithm as is used to
create the planets.  The new version also allows you to pick which type of
star you would like to generate, too (ie main sequence G3, giant K1, etc).

At this point, I would like to provide a better interface using graphics or
at least curses-like screen manipulation.  The problem with this is that
whichever way it goes, you lose portability (PC's don't generally have
curses or xwindows).  Since I'm leaning towards an xwindows display, I'd
like to poll everyone out there to see how many could use it.  How about
it?

Since the program is not really specific to Traveller, is it a good idea to
post it to this mailing list?  Where are the Traveller archives kept
anyway?


							-matt
- -- 
Matt Burdick                    | Hewlett-Packard
burdick@hpda.cup.hp.com   OR    |
burdick%hpda@hplabs.hp.com      | Information Technology (IND/IT)





-------- TML Message #1211 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1211
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: What does High Psg. buy you?
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 90 17:11:35 PDT

Let's talk about what high, middle, low passage on a starship actually
buys for you.

According the the MT Imperial Encyclopedia, High Psg. costs Cr. 10,000,
regardless of the jump length.  Middle Psg. is Cr. 8,000 for the same
thing (and can be bumped by a High Psg.).  The price for Low Psg. isn't
stated, but I seem to recall a figure of Cr. 2,000.

Now if I'm the owner of a jump-2 capable ship, and I know that I can get
a passenger from pt. A to pt. B (which are jump-2 apart) twice as fast
and for half the price of 2 jump-1 hops, wouldn't I logically charge
more than Cr 10,000, but less than Cr 20,000?  Cr 14,000 has a nice ring
to it.  Ditto for 2 ships with identical jump capability, if one is much
more luxurious than the other.  I could see prices of 120% on up to %300
or more for the nicer ship (maybe even higher!).

I guess my basic question is: does anybody have a 'rule of thumb' that
they use for determining what the going passage price on a particular ship
will be, based on jump capability and quality, or do you just haggle with
your players each time?

I'd just as soon not re-invent the wheel if I can avoid it.

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1212 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1212
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Deneb sector system names?
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 90 16:45:46 PDT

So far, I've downloaded the full sector UWP's for the Marches, Deneb,
Corridor, Vland, and Gushemege from the GEnie library archives.  However,
now I've got another problem.  I really need full information on Deneb
sector and only 3 of the subsectors have all of the worlds named (those
subsectors being Pretoria(A), Lamas(B), and Atsah(H)).  All of the others
only have a handful named, with just the UWP, Base, Economic notes, and
stellar info for the others.

Now I don't mind coming up with my own names for systems, but I'd hate
do it and then discover that they already have real GDW/DGP "approved"
names.  So my question is A) do they already have names, and B) if so,
where can I get the complete list?  Help me out, guys (n' gals).

Thanks in advance.

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

P.S. For those of you that are interested, the GEnie library archives also
have UWPs for the following sectors:

Alpha Crucis    Fornast                 Old Expanses
Amdukan         Fulani                  Reft Sector
Antares         Glimmerdrift Reaches    Riftspan Reaches
Core            Hinterworlds            Solomani Rim
Dagudashaag     Ley Sector              Spica
Daibei          Lishun                  Trojan Reach
Delphi          Massilia                Verge
Diaspora        Mendan
Empty Quarter   Meshan

I haven't downloaded any of these yet, but they ought to be as good as the
ones I've already got.

-------- TML Message #1213 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1213
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 90 12:26:34 BST
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Reccomended authors

	In the recent discussion of recommended authors there was one I felt
completely neglected: C.J.Cherryh.
	The first book of hers I read was "Pride of Chanur". The first
thing I thought when reading it was 'this really *feels* like Traveller'.
In fact my delight with her books reawakened my interest in Traveller and
prompted me to run a full time campaign.
	I have often thought about using the Traveller system to run a campaign
set in the Union/Aliance/Compact universe. The ships are sufficiently similar in
concept to just use the Traveller specs and change what it looks like on the
outside. Jump still takes a long time although time doesn't pass for those in
jump. There are two or three chapters in "Rimrunners" devoted to battle dress.
	But putting technical items aside, her universe *feels* like Traveller.
Trade, commerce, planet-space relations, aliens and even war all seem just
like what I see in gaming sessions. Does anyone know if she has actually played
(or run) a Traveller campaign? I wouldn't be suprise. (Actually I have a 
sneaking suspicion that C.J.Cherryh, Mercedes Lackey, & Leslie Fish all game
together and use it as inspiration for their stories although the latter two
are far beneath the quality of Cherry).

					Jo Jaquinta
					jaymin@maths.tcd.ie


-------- TML Message #1214 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1214
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 90 10:20:42 EDT
From: Dan Pierson <pierson@xenna.encore.COM>
Subject: (1211) What does High Psg. buy you?

"Mark F. Cook" writes:
 > Now if I'm the owner of a jump-2 capable ship, and I know that I can get
 > a passenger from pt. A to pt. B (which are jump-2 apart) twice as fast
 > and for half the price of 2 jump-1 hops, wouldn't I logically charge
 > more than Cr 10,000, but less than Cr 20,000?  Cr 14,000 has a nice ring

Maybe, on the other hand you're getting the passenger there in half
the time of the jump-1 ship.  I suspect that many passengers would
happily pay a premium for that sort of service.  Cr 25,000?
Cr 30,000?  It probably depends on the local wealth and amount of
competition. 

Since higher jump ships are more expensive and have less capacity, the
premium should probably increase non-linearly.  What would a jump-4
ship charge for a 4 parsec trip?  Jump-6 and 6 parsec?

Or has the Imperium instituted price control on passages?  If so,
there shouldn't be many commercial ships with jump ratings higher than
absolutely necessary.  Of course, with things breaking down now,
that's all subject to change.  Anyone want to invest in a high-fee,
express passenger service?

                                            dan

-------- TML Message #1215 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1215
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 90 01:07:34 CDT
From: Alan David Mead <mead@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Hi-Tech Sports

{I dist'ed this to traveller and put a better subject line on it -- James}

[Perhaps a disclaimer: I'm *used* to be OT illiterate (Isuppose I'm a
verifiable *artifact* by now!  Hope I'm not wasting BandWidth.]

Hmm.  No one that I've seen has much to say about incidental stuff that
could still be very cool; sports, fiction, bogus news articles,
fashion, entertainment, ....  For instance, I remember an oldish board
game called gravball that would be fun to implement.  The recent posting
of a grav cycle sparked the idea for this sport:

|GravCycle Polo
|
|GravCycle Polo is played by two teams using [you guessed it] some sort
|of anti-grav devices.  These are generally armored but *not* armed.
|Team size varies as a function of the playing field, but might range
|from 5-10 players on a 100m cubic field.  The game ball is generally
|10-25m in radius and filled with some lighter-than-air gas to the point
|of near bouyancy with a small gravic device, anchored at the center,
|keeping the ball within the field.  The object of the game is to drive
|the ball into the other team's goal (out the other side of the field).
|The duribility of the ball is not entirely standard, but only in rare
|games at higher tech levels can a player ram the ball at full speed
|without risk of deflation (a penalty - applied to the survivor, if
|any).
|
|There are reports of similar (and not-so-similar) sports being played
|at lower tech levels on lo G worlds using winged mounts and/or less
|manueverable forms of heavier-than-air devices.
|
|Other variants include time limits on the gravic's air time between
|rechargings, modifications to the rules (or the ball) requiring the 
|use of special (1-4m) "sticks" for ball handling, use of nets (on both
|the ball and opponents), much smaller balls, ....  In one particularly
|dangerous version found on <insertyourfavoriteworldhere>, the players
|kneel on small discs that have no armor.  The player's legs are 
|strapped down leaving his or her arms to use the ball.  The disc is 
|controlled by head and foot movements.  Since the player wears little
|personal armor (disc cannot lift too much for too long; goalies and
|rear defence wear the most), the possibility of knocking the player 
|out cold (occasionally resulting in crashes; always resulting in loss
|of the ball) is pretty good, particularly when the attack is initiated
|from a higher altitude.

What are some of *your* high tech sports?  I'm really curious how 
american football, european football, hockey, and lacross might be
altered by tech advances.  I'd also like to see some kind of robot
gladiators (kinda like C-Robots & P-Robots, if you've seen them), an
advanced form of Lazer Tag, PaintGunWars (or Survival or whatever),
BattleChess (ala Star Wars or the recent game of the same name), etc
....  Has anybody seen a fairly aweful cable show called _New Age
Gladiators_?  It's pretty outrageous.

I doubt that anything like Roller Ball (is that the name) or the game
in the movie _Running Man_ would ever be played, but ....

Well, the rest later.

- -alan mead

-------- TML Message #1216 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1216
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 90 13:02:02 EDT
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: StarShip Design

With each revision of the star-ship design (Starships, High-Guard, 
High-Guard rev.2, Mega-Traveller), I have attempted to generate a ship 
design program. My programming skill has increased proportionally to the
increased difficulty of generating starship designs (IMHO). However,
I never finished to designs due to a lack of Energy.

It has gotten to the point now where I need a starship design program,
and I don't want to make the same mistake again. If I could get the
prgramming help of a few of the members of the list, I am sure we can
produce a good design program (I posted an algorithm a while back). 
Mainly what I need halp in, is programming the charts. I find that the
fact that there is so much data here, that I give up  when trying to 
enter it all. 

If you would like to help me, so we can produce a good program (at least a
usable one) that the list can share, contact me. (dan@engrg.uwo.ca)

					-Dan Corrin

P.S. I have found a couple of typos in the new supplement, "Fighting
ships of the Impium" or something like that. Two of the ships have
the same name, and one of the design sections (sensors: I believe)
wasn't labelled. So far nothing major.

-------- TML Message #1217 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1217
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 90 15:42 EDT
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: UPP and Software

>At this point, I would like to provide a better interface using graphics or
>at least curses-like screen manipulation.  The problem with this is that
>whichever way it goes, you lose portability (PC's don't generally have
>curses or xwindows).  Since I'm leaning towards an xwindows display, I'd
>like to poll everyone out there to see how many could use it.  How about
>it?
>
>Since the program is not really specific to Traveller, is it a good idea to
>post it to this mailing list?  Where are the Traveller archives kept
>anyway?
>
>Matt Burdick                    | Hewlett-Packard

Acutally, I would like to see it run in an MS-DOS environment.  I don't have X
close at hand (though I hope to have some day).  What would be best is if you
could write it using "Generic Routines" such as Line(), Pixel(), and such, then
in those routines, you could put the specific routines for the target system in
there.  Since most programs need a routine to start and end grapics (under X it
would be to create the window and close it), you could have a generic
StartGraph() and EndGraph() that we PC people could plug our own routines into.
That way, you could get a Mac, a PC, an Amiga, an X person to contribute their
own routines to do what you need.

I got burned in a similar fashion with my Traveller GM Aid.  It is written in
Turbo Pascal which kills it portability on the spot.  It is written to REQUIRE
VGA (Or at least 480 Lines of vertical resolution)...  Talk about non-portable!

I would post it, even if it isn't traveller specific, it could be used by
somebody.  If nothing else, mail it to the comp.source.misc moderator.

Rob
(Sorry, if I got the subject wrong, but it is difficult to reply to digest
messages)

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1218 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1218
From: "Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re:  TML Conventions
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 90 18:29:59 EST

 In message 1193, William Ricker writes:
 >
 >James & all,
 >
 >The suggested weekend, Labor Day, is the date for the annual World
 >Science Fiction Convention.

     True, indeed.  This would make a TML convention/meeting rather
inconvenient for me, since I usually work Worldcons.  Takes care of my
Labor Day weekends, eh?

 >So...  if you want to meet other TML subscribers:
 >(1) Check Analog's calendar and go to any local SF cons in your area,
 >and anywhere else you'd like to visit.

     I know of a better source for convention calendars.  I can post con
listings periodically (monthly?) if enough people would want it.

 >(2) Tell the TML where you going, so others going their can look for
 >you, and you can pick whose hotel room to have the party in.  (And also
 >arrange to share hotel rooms/driving etc.)

     By all means.

 >WorldCon 91 is in Orlando.  '92 is probably off-shore (I forget);

     Not quite right.  The upcoming (1990) Worldcon is in the Netherlands.  The
next (1991) Worldcon is in Chicago (Chicon IV).  The 1992 Worldcon is in
Orlando, Florida (Magicon).  If anyone wants the contact addresses, let me know
and I'll post them.  Even if you only get a supporting membership (*much* less
expensive than an attending), you can still vote on the Hugos...  :-)

 >San Francisco and somewhere inthe south-west are in the running for '93.

     Yup.  Personally, I hope San Francisco gets it.  I think rather highly of
their bid.

     For those who live in the midwest, there's Marcon, starting  on 18 May.
I'm going to be there, and I'm usually pretty easy to find (look for the FidoNet
SF echo room party).


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu  /  USENET:  pur-ee!gn.ecn.purdue.edu!woodsb
FIDONET:  Brent.Woods@p303.f40.n201.z1.fidonet.org  (from Internet)  or
          Brent Woods@1:201/40.303  (from FidoNet)
USNAIL:  320 Brown St., #406  /  W. Laf., IN  47906
PHONE:  +1 (317) 743-8421 (voice)


-------- TML Message #1219 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1219
Date:     Thu, 12 Apr 90 23:59:23 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  MT edition/GDW catalog

Well, after reading archived TML articles 1 to about 220 straight
through, I figured screw this.  It was taking too long and my brain
was getting confused between present and past.  So if I ask stupid
stuff that's been answered sometime between mid-1988 and a few
weeks ago, you guys are just gonna have to live with it.  :-)

I think I'll get MegaTraveller.  The store I used to get my Trav
stuff from doesn't seem to carry GDW anymore.  So I'd like to know,
has the second edition come out yet?  There seemed to be an awful
lot of typos, mistakes, missing charts, etc. in the first edition.
(Those posted erratta lists took an awfully long time scrolling by
at 1200 baud :-).

Anyways, I sent off for a GDW catalog.  If it has a listing of
alll the current Traveller stuff in print, would you guys be
interested in me posting it?

John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!muddcs!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1220 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1220
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 90 11:59:49 MDT
From: SULAIMAN <asulaima@orion.cair.du.edu>
Subject: Fighting Ships


It seems that GDW has outdone itself again.What a wonderful useful peace
of recyclable material. This book is the biggest con since Judge's Guild 
went out of business. 

First all large ships have armour over 70. All Battleships rate their armour
as over 100. First this is illegal. At TL15 max armour is 75 as per ref's manual
+ a little more if you have a rock for a ship. Two even if this was legal
it gives all hits a minus 20! on the die roll because of armour. Basically
NO weapon except Meson Guns do any damage. They have PA battleships that are
said to stand in line of battle against other battleships. And do what,
pick their noses. "Sir our weapons are bouncing off of their ship.
"Dont worry ensign they aren't hitting us either. lets wait a week and hope
that Meson Gun ship shows up." Seriously your secondary weapon will ALWAYS
bounce off and your primaries MAY hit(only if he has armor 100 or less) on a
12.

Second They have carriers but with no launch tubes. Lets see we launch 1 fighter
every 20 min turn. In 2 weeks maybe we'll be able to launch our entire group.

They have tanker sqdns but no rules on how much fuel they can transfer per
unit time.

Most importantly there are no ships under 5000 t and only 2 of those. Except
for those 2 everything is 10ooot + ALL cruisers are 100000t. Unless u are 
running a Fleet campaign I see little use for the book in a campaign.

It appears that GDW just got a new spreadsheet program and went gonzo 
over it. Proofreading is at GDW's worst. Most ship designs have atleast 1
typo or error in it.

What is scary is that I have seen GDW products for 2300 and 1889 and they are
VERY professionally done. I fear that GDW might be trying to deliberately 
sabotage Traveller. Either that or the staff assigned to M-traveller is
at the bottom end of the game barrel.

My 0.02 dollars.
		
	Ameer Zaffar.

-------- TML Message #1221 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1221
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 90 16:03:23 PDT
From: gwh%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@lilac.berkeley.edu
Subject: Fighting Ships

I'd like to put my fairly moderate two cents on Fighting Ships.

First: you can't deny that a lot of work went into it.  Fifty plus ships,
quite well done, indicates that Marc Miller did indeed put effort into it.  I
like the idea of tracing the evolution of combat vessels over time, and some
of the comments are quite telling.

Secondly: it corrects a longstanding discrepancy between estimated imperiumwide
naval budgets [simple calculation, everyone ought to have done this a long time
ago] and depicted naval force levels.  The ships shown make naval fleets that
are bigger and more expensive by about the right amount to correct the 
differences.

Third: despite the number of ships that are in it, it lacks depth in a lot of 
ways.  We are asked that imperial naval development produced no more than three
ships in the same size range [BB, Cruiser, whatever...] per tech level...about
a hundred years.  That, and a total abandonment of previously designed fighting
starship designes...[Marc! Where'd my Tigress go!?!? :-) ].

Fourth: there are some production and design flaws.  A lot of typos, most 
annoying to me being the appearance of a lot of spurious '300,00 tons is fuel
tankage for distribution.' lines, particularly irritating in 30kton Battle
Riders... :-)

Things like using spinal PA's can be forgiven; note that those are the 'light
battleships' not the mainline ones.  The armour factor violations...well, in
my humble opinion it's a) not the first time [check out 101 Vehicles, which was
approved] and b) a silly rule to start with.  now that mass _counts_, armour
is really its own penalty.

And a couple of observations...
	{SIGNIFICANT} almost ALL the main line ships have a Def DM of 7.  I 
have a feeling that this means something.  The gaming that GDW does internally
must (speculation) have shown that this is the best balanced level.  Note also
that most of the ships have agility=0 to not exceed that level.  This is counter
to my personal intuition, and someone should ask inside GDW and try and see
if i read this right.

	{FOR NORMAL PLAYERS, PERHAPS MORE SIGNIFICANT}  the imperial navy is now
WAY out of reach when it comes to 'player resistance to/attacks on' naval 
vessels.  

*******************************************************************************
George William Herbert              JOAT For Hire: Anything, Anywhere: My Price
   UCB Naval Architecture undergrad: Engineering with a Bouyant Attitude :-)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Who?" the man managed.                    "Whip me, Beat Me, Make me use C..." 
"The Rastafarian Navy," Case said,         ++++++++++ gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu  OR
"...and all we want is a jack into your    ========== gwh@soda.berkeley.edu OR
custodial system." -neuromancer            """""""" maniac@garnet.berkeley.edu

-------- TML Message #1222 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1222
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 90 00:47:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Fighting Ships

I don't have the book yet (local game store sold out - Grrr...), but I would
like to comment on one remark George made.

>{SIGNIFICANT} almost ALL the main line ships have a Def DM of 7.  I 
>have a feeling that this means something.  The gaming that GDW does internally
>must (speculation) have shown that this is the best balanced level.  Note also
>that most of the ships have agility=0 to not exceed that level.  This
is counter
>to my personal intuition, and someone should ask inside GDW and try and see
>if i read this right.

The reason all the main line ships have a Def DM of 7 is because it is the best
practical for a large, heavily armored ship.
Def DM = 9	(best computer available at TL 15)
	-2	(size mod for ships 100,000 tons or more)
	+0	(agility)
	= 7

	The reason that the agility is 0 is due to the heavy armor.  Even though
mass doesn't affect manuver drive performance (handled, along with many other
tasks, by the manuver drive physics nullifier box), it still is used for
agility.  Thus
the heavy armor makes it prohibitively expensive to get any agility bonus.
Example:  A 100,000 ton ship with an armor factor 100 bonded superdense hull
would mass ~1.535 E7 tons just for the hull. In order to get agility 1,
it would require
*spare* power of  ~2.84 E6 MW = 158,000 kl of power plant (11.7% of the ship)
plus 1,024,000 kl for a 30-day fuel supply (75.8% of the ship if you
really want to try).
	Armor that heavy does have the advantage of making you immune to
everything except meson guns, as was noted in a previous post.
	I'm sure I will find other problems when I finally get the book. (I wish
these things had warranties)

>George William Herbert 

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

-------- TML Message #1223 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1223
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 90 18:34:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Just add water

	In my search for ways to increase the cargo tonnage of merchant ships,
I discovered an interesting technique: Store most of the fusion plant
fuel in the form of water, and only refine it to hydrogen as needed. 
Water is a more space efficient way to carry hydrogen than LH2.  Since 1
kl of LH2 masses ~0.07 tons, and the mass of the hydrogen in 1 kl water
= 1/9*1 = ~0.11 tons, this results in a space savings of about 1/3. 
Most ships have fuel purification plants, and since they can refine
water obtained from ocean refuelling they can certainly refine water
already in the tanks.
	This tactic can be very helpful for power plant fuel, but jump fuel is
needed too fast (all burned in about 10 minutes) for the purification
plant to keep up.  Since the minimum size TL 15 plant purifies 200 kl in
6 hours, it should be able to handle almost any powerplant needs.  The
leftover oxygen can be dumped, used, or saved in excess tankage to
convert back to water with fuel skimmed from a gas giant.  Once a ship
has entered Jumpspace, the fuel for the jump has all been used, so the
water can be refined to LH2 and LOX.  I am assuming that the fuel
tankage for most ships is modular, so that you can have different fluids
in different tank sections (otherwise skimming and purifying would be
difficult).  In the designs I have done, I put in a small (5-10 kl) LH2
"buffer" for the powerplant fuel, and stored the rest as water.
	Hindsight makes this kind of obvious, and I think the only reason it
hasn't (to my knowledge) been noticed before is because the way an MT
manuver drive works is counterintuitive (ie only volume is important,
not mass).  In any drive that depends on mass, this won't work well
since 8/9 of the mass of water is oxygen, which is useless to the
powerplant.
	Any warship or explorer using this technique should probably have more
than one fuel purification plant in case one gets damaged or destroyed. 
Alternatively, they could just use a buffer large enough to get the ship
back to port for repairs.
	Another case where water can come in handy is for making multiple jumps
without refuelling.  Only the fuel for the one jump at a time needs to
be refined, saving 1/3 the space on the fuel for all subsequent jumps. 
Also if you are carrying fuel in collapsible tanks, it would seem to me
that water would be *much* safer and easier to deal with than LH2.
	What to do if you are a GM and don't like this: This is kind of tough,
since the only things needed for this to work are 1) - Purification
plants can handle water, and 2) - Manuver drives don't care about mass.
The only real way to get rid of it is to axe 2), which means throwing
out all the existing official ship designs, as well as making certain
types of ships impossible to build (ie anything with heavy armor).
	I'm interested in any comments or suggestions you might have.


					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

-------- TML Message #1224 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1224
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 90 10:35:08 -0700
From: "Ted Kim (Random Dude" <tek@lanai.cs.ucla.edu>
Subject: Undigestifier


I like the fact that the digest messages only come in once a day. But
once I have read the messagers, I would like to save only a few.
That's when you would like to be able to undigestify them. Some people
use mailers that do it for them. Since I am currently using a low-tech
mailer (and am too lazy to switch just now), I am trying to find an
undigestifier program. 

Does someone have or know where an undigestifier is available?
Preferably, the program should be in C source form.

- -ted

#include <std/disclaimer.h>

Ted Kim                           
UCLA Computer Science Department  Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu
3804C Boelter Hall                UUCP:    ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek
Los Angeles, CA 90024		  Phone:   (213) 206-8696

-------- TML Message #1225 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1225
Date:     Tue, 17 Apr 90 11:27:40 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Re: Just add water

I didn't believe it until I checked it out myself.  Yup, it works.
But why stop at water (OH2)?  Let your imagination run wild.

Ammonia (NH3)
  b.p. -28 deg. F (sorry about the English units, that's what
                   the book has).
  Density, liq:  42.6 lb/ft^3  =  .682 tons/m^3
  %wt of Hydrogen:  17.65%     (3/(14+1+1+1))
  Density of Hydrogen:  .120 tons/m^3

  About 1.70 times the hydrogen in the same space.
  (Density of H (LH2) is about .0708 tons/m^3)
  (Water worked out to about 1.57 times the hydrogen)


Methane (CH4)
  b.p.  -164 deg. C  (yup, these are in SI)
  Density, liq:  .5547 (not sure about this.  The table
                        also says .466 next to the gas
                        phase, but that is awfully dense
                        for a gas).
  %wt of Hydrogen:  25%     (4/(12+1+1+1+1))
  Density of Hydrogen:  .1387 tons/m^3

  About 1.96 times the hydrogen in the same space!
  Wow, almost doubled capacity!

Hmm, just found ammonia on another chart that says its
liquid density is .7710 tons/m^3 which would give a H
density of .1358 tons/m^3 or 1.92 times capacity.

A quick check into the thermodynamic properties of
these three (water, ammonia , methane) says:

143  kJ/mole to split H2O into H2 and O2
15.4 kJ/mole to splie NH3 into N2 and H2
18.7 kJ/mole to split CH4 into H2 and C(graphite)

Looks like it should be easier to extract hydrogen from
methane and ammonia than water.  Anyone know for sure?

I suspect methane is about the best you can do since it uses
four bonds with hydrogen--the normal maximum.  Of course, there
might be some superdense liquid or really messed up bond structure
out there that I don't know about.
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!muddcs!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1226 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1226
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@cd.chalmers.se>
Subject: More On Maps & The Emperors Clothes.
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 11:29:27 MET DST

I forgot about 10 planetary maps when I talked about maps published in the
Digest, but none of them are maps of major worlds.
There *is* a system survey of glisten, which I'd say is a semi-major world,
but this is the only system survey that dont include a surface map.
(for obvious reasons :-)

And, about the major breakthrough in starship fuels I have to lift on my hat
for William Dow Rieder. 

Now we'll just have to convince GDW about the advantages of using hydrogene 
stored as water or methane (methane is free for taking at a normal GasGiant,
I think) and watch a revolution in starship design take place.

Seriously, I am rather pessimistic about getting any kind of official adaption
of this scheme. How would they explain that nobody had used this method 
before?

- -bertil-
- -- 
Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se 
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      
"Optional BMG (which is usable when the AFV is HD across its VCA) and AAMG are
available as of 7/44 with RF of 1.3" - Advanced Squad Leader about the StuPz IV

-------- TML Message #1227 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1227
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Wimpy Gauss Weapons
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 10:09:39 BST

Mark F. Cook writes:
>							      When the player
> in question discovered that the Gauss Rifles (TL 13) aboard their starship
> couldn't penetrate Battle Dress or Combat Armor from the same tech. level,
> he pointed out that this would be like sending soldiers into battle with
> flak jackets, and arming them with weapons that couldn't kill an enemy
> wearing the SAME flak jackets.

> <Penetration tables deleted to save space>

>		  The gauss rifle in particular has been significantly watered
> down from it's original descriptions in Classic Traveller (Mercenary) and
> Azhanti High Lightning.  Does this mean that gauss rifles are passe as battle-
> field weapons?

In Mercenary and Classic Traveller, the to-hit and penetration rolls were
combined.  The gauss rifle's rate of fire was what made it so lethal, not its
penetration.  I don't know the figures for Azhanti High Lightning, but the
similar Striker system used the same figures as MegaTraveller.

Perhaps the combat armour was developed later in TL12 than gauss rifles, as a
defence against them?  Or maybe the gauss rifle is for use against less
armoured targets, e.g. civilian criminals, or low-tech societies you want to
conquer; and against serious opposition, you use laser rifles.

I still think that either the gauss weapons fire high velocity, i.e. supersonic
rounds, in which case they aren't silent except in vacuum or near vacuum; or
they are silent, therefore subsonic, therefore should have even lower
penetration values.  Even present day pistols fire bullets which move faster
than sound; silencers have to slow down the bullets, which is why silenced
weapons aren't as powerful - and why low-powered, subsonic weapons are more
easily silenced.  Gauss weapons could be fitted with a switch controlling the
current into the coils, so you could have a choice.

Actually, it's probably down to game balance again.  If a weapon with the
penetration to breach high-tech battledress and high rate of fire appears,
all the munchkins will trade in their PGMP's for such devices.  You either
get high penetration, and need the skill to use it; or you get lower
penetration, but it's easier to hit things.

> This brings us to the next topic: AUTOMATIC WEAPON FIRE.
> 
> First, some weapons (i.e. Gauss Rifle and Pistol) have specific auto-fire
> numbers given in the Imperial Encyclopedia (4 for the pistol, 4 or 10 for
> the rifle).  Should these be used instead of the standard 5 listed in the
> Players' Manual.

Yes.  IMHO, of course!  Mind you, I graduated on Striker, where all weapons
had their individual DEX and autofire modifiers anyway.

> Second, if multiple targets are available, and you hit the primary target,
> are the adjacent targets hit automatically or must you reroll for each?

The Striker system was, for every 2 by which your roll exceeded the required
number, you hit an extra target.  My system was, reroll for each, with a DM
of -2 for the second target, -4 for the third, etc.

> Third, if you are in auto-fire mode and there is only a single target,
> is he hit by all the auto-fire rounds?  If not, how many hit?  Do you
> roll a separate attack for each round?  Are there any die modifiers
> (positive or negative) for successive rounds?

The Striker system was, you chose the size of group you were firing at.  If you
got multiple hits, they were divided evenly among the target group.  If you
were only firing at one individual, he got the lot.  My system was, the
second, third and other targets could be the same as the first one.  The -2, -4
modifiers still applied though.  So, for a burst of 4 rounds, I could fire two
shots at the main target (1), one at the guy on his left (2), and one at the
guy on his right (3).  The first shot at target 1 is unmodified; the second
shot at target 1 gets a DM of -2; the shot at target 2 is at -4; the shot at
target 3 is -6.  Add on appropriate autofire, skill and DEX modifiers as well.

- -- 
 "Keyboard? How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1228 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1228
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 09:28:02 EDT
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Just add water

John H. Kim writes:

>Ammonia (NH3)
>  %wt of Hydrogen:  17.65%     (3/(14+1+1+1))
>  About 1.70 times the hydrogen in the same space.
>  (Water worked out to about 1.57 times the hydrogen)
>
>
>Methane (CH4)
>  %wt of Hydrogen:  25%     (4/(12+1+1+1+1))
>  About 1.96 times the hydrogen in the same space!
>  Wow, almost doubled capacity!

This is an interesting breakthrough in starship design. 
Sell your stock in refined fuel companies!
The facilities should be designed to allow sufficent fuel capacity if
water was being used, as the other gasses may not always be avaiable. 
Thus is methane is designated as providing a 30 day supply, then Ammonia 
would give you 26 days, and water 24 days, this should be plenty.

This brings up three points:

First: Are there any astophysicsts out there who can describe the
strucutre of a gas giant. i.e. what gasses are found at the top of the
atmosphere, how far down do you have to go to get ammonia, or methane? 

Second: If a load of mixed gasses come in to the tank, can the
refinery eliminate the unwanted material, and leave ammonia water or
methane. They are designed to extract hydrogen, and dump everything else.
Would two purifiers be necessary? One to sort the incoming wilderness
fuel, and the second to provide hydrogen for the holding tank.

Third: Another method of saving fuel space is logically considering
the energy usage of a ship. The fuel consumption is based on full output
24hrs a day for 30 days. Warships in particular devote a lot of energy to
weapons screens or agility.
We know that the fusion engines can vary their fuel consumption, as the
idling rules imply. anyways if you don't agree with this, then you can
always designate two fusion engines, one for the consant energy, and the
other for the on-demand energy.
Thus only allocating fuel for 12-48 hours of combat, a reasonable 
assumption I believe, even more fuel savings can be made.

			-Dan

Dan Corrin, System Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
TML FTP site coordinator:  dan@engrg.uwo.ca   ...!watmath!julian!engrg!dan




-------- TML Message #1229 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1229
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 09:46:01 EDT
From: Andrew Salamon <salamon@sun.udel.edu>
Subject: RE: Undigestifier

I would like a undigestifier as well, any pointers would be appreciated.

Magic in my Mind                     |   /Andrew/
Music in my Heart                    |   soi-disant Bleydion op Rhys
Laughter in my Soul                  |   salamon@sun.acs.udel.edu
And...A Sword in my Fist (sigh)      | 

-------- TML Message #1230 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1230
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 90 02:49 EST
From: Ministry of Silly Minds - Open for Business <GDS3939%RITVAX.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Meeting at Conventions


Well, I don't know whether anyone has heard or us before or now, but Rochester
Wargamers Association & Guild(RWAG) sponsers a Roleplaying and Wargaming
Convention every year at the Rochester Institute of Technology in Rochester,
NY.  RUDICON 6 will be held this October 19-21 at RIT.  I will definitely be
there, and, if anyone's interested, the MegaTraveller adventure will be written
by myself.  It's almost done, and I think things will be quite interesting.  If
anyone wants more information, just contact me.  LaTeR.

Gary Schreiber
gds3939@ritvax.bitnet
gds3939@vaxc.isc.rit.edu
gds3939@ultb.isc.rit.edu
jedi@drycas.bitnet
jedi@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu

PS - If you want, you can write directly to the club for more info.  The
address is below:

        RWAG
        c/o Student Directorate
        1 Lomb Memorial Dr.
        Rochester, NY  14623

-------- TML Message #1231 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1231
Date:     Thu, 19 Apr 90 10:48:32 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Skimming Fuel (was: Just add water)

>Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca> writes:
>
>First: Are there any astophysicsts out there who can describe the
>strucutre of a gas giant. i.e. what gasses are found at the top of the
>atmosphere, how far down do you have to go to get ammonia, or methane? 

That's what the Galileo mission is for.  It will drop a probe into
the Jovian atmosphere and we will (hopefully) get our first "cross
section" of a gas giant's upper atmosphere.

But I don't think you guys want to wait until 1996 (or whenever it's
supposed to get to Jupiter) so here's what I dug up in back-issues
of magazines.  Remember, it's all theoretical right now.

Jupiter:     ammonia crystals (white)              Top
             ammonium hydrosulfide crystals (brown)
             water ice crystals ?
             liquid Helium/Hydrogen

Neptune:     Diacetylene clouds                   Top
             Acetylene clouds (CHCH)              20 km down
             Ethane clouds (CH3CH3)               50 km down (from top)
             Methane ice cloud (CH4)              150-200 km down
             Hydrogen Sulfide cloud (H2S)         20 more km down

I suspect the really high atmosphere stuff is determined from the
radio-occultation of Voyager II behind Neptune, so it is probably
valid.  The rest (100 km+) is probably a good guess from spectro-
scopic analysis of sunlight reflected from the atmosphere.

My magazines don't go back to the Voyager-Jupiter/Saturn encounters
(heck, I was only 12 back then) so if you really want to get into
this stuff, dig up some good science mags (esp. Sky & Telescope,
Astronomy) of the Voyager encounters.
Jupiter:'79-'80  Saturn:'81-'82  Uranus:'86-'87  Neptune:'89

I think I'll ask the guys on sci.astro

>Second: If a load of mixed gasses come in to the tank, can the
>refinery eliminate the unwanted material, and leave ammonia water or
>methane. They are designed to extract hydrogen, and dump everything else.
>Would two purifiers be necessary? One to sort the incoming wilderness
>fuel, and the second to provide hydrogen for the holding tank.

Separation of all this gobbledygook shouldn't be a problem.  Most
of the stuff seems to be in solid or liquid phase so all you do is
raise the temperature and each material boils off at its respective
boiling point.  (It isn't really this simple but it'll do for most
game purposes.)

What I don't know is how you go about separating ammonia into
nitrogen and hydrogen gas (or methane into graphite and H gas).
Hydrolysis works with water, but I don't know about the other two.
(I am not a chemist.  I've been looking up these numbers in a CRC.
I hate chemistry.  No, I'm not an astrophysicist either.  Just an
engineer-in-training who had to learn this separation stuff.)

Hey, just had a thought to add realism to the game.  In real life,
separation/refining takes lots of time (like using a still to make
alcohol) unless you use really big machinery.  This is a physical
constraint, so higher tech levels will only help a little.  (Maybe
I'll run that program my school has that simulates chemical processing
and separating systems.)

So... why not add a time penalty to refine this stuff after you get
it from a gas giant.  That way, if you regularly skim fuel, not only
are you risking a misjump, but you're going to have to wait a few
hours before you can jump away from that patrol cruiser on your tail.

And since only 5%-25% of the stuff you skim is really hydrogen,
make 'em go back into that gas giant where they know three system
defense ships are lurking!  Then make 'em go back five more times
before their tanks have enough hydrogen to make a jump.

I think this would cut down on players skimming fuel.  I always
hated how players would say "What?  500Cr/ton for fuel?  No thanks,
I'll just hop over to a GG and skim it."
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim  <--Yes, it's changed.  muddcs is gone.

-------- TML Message #1232 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1232
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 90 15:55:53 EDT
From: Chris Bartlett (Mouser) <cdba_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
Subject: Methane vs. hydrogen, etc.


Excuse me, but I don't understand how you can have more hydrogen in one
cubic meter of liquid methane than in one cubic meter of liquid hydrogen.
Just how is this accomplished, or did I miss something in Chemistry class?
In one meter cubed of LH2, it's ALL hydrogen, right?  Now in one meter cubed
of NH3, it's not all hydrogen, but some of the space is taken up by nitrogen
atoms.  So how can you save space by carrying methane, or anything else?

Hmmm?

Chris



-------- TML Message #1233 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1233
Subject: Re: Methane vs. hydrogen, etc. 
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 90 13:24:32 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


Chris, I tend to think you're correct.  Liquid H2 has a density much
lower than that of CH4.  CH4 molecules are not much bigger than H2
molecules, but contain twice the number of hydrogren atoms.  Also, the
forces that cause the molecules to liquify may be stronger in the CH4,
so the CH4 molecules are more closely packed.  I think this is likely;
doesn't CH4 liquify at a higher temperature than H2? Wouldn't more polar
molecules do even better, getting real friendly with each other (oops
they just solidified)?

Sorry, my chemistry's a little rusty too.

James

-------- TML Message #1234 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1234
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 90 16:07:54 EDT
From: Chris Bartlett (Mouser) <cdba_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
Subject: Methane, etc. a slight error


Oops, in my previous posting, I made the mistake of giving the formula for
ammonia, NH3, when I was talking about methane, CH4.  Either way, the result is 
the same. 

Chris


-------- TML Message #1235 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1235
From: Bart Massey <bart@fatal.tv.TEK.COM>
Subject: DANGER: Mass-Independent Drive Is Perpetual Motion Machine
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 90 15:43:35 PDT

> ...the way an MT manuver drive works is counterintuitive (ie only volume is
> important, not mass).  In any drive that depends on mass, this won't work
> well...

Aiigh.  I don't know my Traveller well enough to comment very authoritatively,
but if the above statement is true, a Traveller perpetual motion machine
(i.e. an infinite energy source) exists.  Proof:

Take a body with finite volume V and mass m.  Let the energy required by the
maneuver drive to move the body a distance h against a gravitational field
of constant g be E(V,g,h) .  For a practical drive, there must exist a V,g,h
such that E(V,g,h) is finite.  Choose such a triple.  Note that the energy
gained in moving the body downward from a height h in the field by
conventional means (i.e. dropping the body :-) is mgh .

Thus, one can construct an engine whose energy consumption per cycle is
E(V,g,h) - mgh .  A perpetual motion machine can be constructed if there
exists an m such that E(V,g,h) - mgh < 0, i.e. m > E(V,g,h)/gh .  But for
fixed V,g,h the RHS of this inequality is constant, and we can make m
arbitrarily large -- Q.E.D.

Note that the energy yielded by such a machine increases with increasing m
for any given V.  Thus, one apparently wants an extremely dense object to
act as a piston in this machine...  Note also that such a machine could
apparently fairly easily realize a Doomsday device for the entire Traveller
universe (proof left to the reader), and thus had probably better not exist...

					Bart Massey
					..tektronix!videovax.tv.tek.com!bart
					..tektronix!reed.bitnet!bart


-------- TML Message #1236 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1236
Date:     Thu, 19 Apr 90 22:17:08 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Methane Correction--Ammonia takes top honors

As per request:
            Liquid Hydrogen     Water        Methane       Ammonia
Property         H2              H2O           CH4           NH3
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Boiling point
            C  -252.87           0.00         -164.0        -33.35
            K    20.28         273.15          109.15       239.80
Density at b.p.
     (kg/m^3)    70.0         1000.0           424.         682.1
# of molecules
  (moles/m^3)    34724         55508          26429        40052
# of H atoms
  (moles/m^3)    69448        111016         105716       120156
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
ratio
  (LH2 = 1)        1          1.599          1.522         1.730

These are the correct numbers at the respective boiling points.
The densities are bound to change with temperature, but I don't
have those sorts of charts handy.  Oh yeah, all at 1 atm.

Apparently I was in error about the density of Methane.  Too
bad.  Ammonia takes the top spot again.  Hmm, what about solid
methane and ammonia ice...

The numbers are from the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics,
67th edition, 1986-1987, page B-447.  Great book.  Everyone
should read it at least once through :-).

As James pointed out, all materials don't have the same number
of molecules per unit volume.  Sometimes the trend is counter-
intuitive (tiny H2 molecules occupy a lot of space).  I never
did well on that chapter on attractive/repulsive forces so that's
the best answer I can give.  Remember all that stuff you learned
about ideal gases?  Trash it.  It only works well for noble gases.
All the other gases act really strange.
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1237 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1237
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 90 10:03:07 BST
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: 1,000,000 stars level 3

	Well level three is ready. A week early at that!
	For those that haven't been following, I have been writing
a progressive system of star generation. This is not to be confused with
the system design sublist who I believe are working on generating systems
astronically accurately by committee. What I generate is straight out
of the books.
	Level three contains almost all of the elements detailed in WBH.
Because of the wealth of data, presentation becomes a problem so there
are several subsidiary programs to display it in a variety of ways. The
core of the whole system is the routines that generate the linked list
representing the system. I wholeheartedly encourage people to use these
routines to generate their own programs to present the data in the way
they find most useful. I have many projects and ideas for development
that I am very eager for people to do while I work towards release 4.
	Level four is basically an extension to provide planetary maps.
Physical, temperature, population spread and so forth. I desperately
need someone who knows landscaping fractals, preferably on a triangular
grid. It is scheduled for release on the 1 June but without fractal 
algorithms it probably won't see light until 1 July.
	Just mail me for a copy. Please report any and all bugs.
	Enjoy,
				Jo Jaquinta
				jaymin@maths.tcd.ie

-------- TML Message #1238 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1238
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 90 00:06:58 PDT
From: gwh%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@lilac.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: why methane is more effecient and Re: mass independent drives

Methane vs LH2:
	Chris, the reason that you can store more hydrogen in liquid methane thathan in liquid hydrogen is simple: the volume per molecule isn't that much
different, even if there are five [one C and four H] vs. two [two H] atoms in
the molecule.  Since there are twice as many Hydrogen atoms in a methane 
molecule than in a hydrogen molecule [diatomic, only way it's stable in nature]
then you get twice as much hydrogen, though it weighs a whole lot more.
	I don't feel like going into gas and liquid theory enough to justify
the above, just remember that most of everything is empty space anyway :-) and
the ping pong balls bounce about like tennis balls do.

Re: mass-independent drives
	Interesting analysis.  This whole things points out a couple of
things some friends of mine and I have known and dealt with for a long time:
	Traveller isn't science.  A lot of it is pseudoscience that looks real
good. and

	If you bend things a little you can still make sense.  For instance,
at the beginning, things like hull armour weren't a factor, and so starships
tended very strongly to have a closely similar density.  When high guard came
out, they didn't want to deal with mass, so they continued that assumption.
Presumeably the 'armour really takes up volume' assumption helped to 
counteract that, but i haven't done an analysis of it myself...
	Then, with Megatrav, suddenly we have a problem.  Our starships now
are like everything else and _weigh_ something.  Oops, wow, our drives didn't
used to take this into account.  Two choices for the designers now: either to
cheat on reality [really just realizing that there's been an innacuracy in the
rules] and keep the drives consistent; or they could revamp them totally and
risk having starships that had been made earlier not work in the new system.
They chose to assume that ships really were still close to the same density,
continuing a known reality gap, but that way we can still make ships like we
used to...
	All you have to do to correct this is to follow allong in the 
assumption that the rule is valid under...have a ship within [relatively] 
reasonable densities.  As long as you don't armour it to hell and back, it'll
work fine.  If you demand reality anyway, kluge a rule yourself and ignore
the new Fighting Ships and you might as well write Marc Miller a nasty letter
about it too :-)

[oh, final comment about ship densities... FINALLY we have starships that 
weigh more then they displace in water. :-) old ships just couldn't sink, so
using them as submarines was a bit difficult :-)]

- -george


*******************************************************************************
George William Herbert              JOAT For Hire: Anything, Anywhere: My Price
   UCB Naval Architecture undergrad: Engineering with a Bouyant Attitude :-)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Who?" the man managed.                    Whip me, Beat Me, Make me learn C...
"The Rastafarian Navy," Case said,         ++++++++++ gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu  OR
"...and all we want is a jack into your    ========== gwh@soda.berkeley.edu OR
custodial system." -neuromancer            """""""" maniac@garnet.berkeley.edu

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1239 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1239
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 90 10:14:49 EST
From: Brian Gillespie <bgillesp@beast.prime.COM>
Subject: Composition High Tech Level Militaries


     The PBeM game has brought a few questions to my mind about the
composition of forces for a future mulitary, (TL 12+).

     From Traveller book 4, Mercenary, under OVERVIEW OF EQUIPMENT,
Military Vehicles, pg 47:

"Tech Level 12: All vehicles have sufficient free-flight performance
that ground combat vehicles effectively no longer exist, having
merged with aircraft." ...
"Tech Level 15: Gunships mounting rapid pulse X guns and heavier Z
guns are virtually indistinguishable from orbital craft." ...

What does this do to the current day term of 'tank' and 'fighter'?
Grav-tank seems pretty obvious to me, but what do people mean when
they say 'fighter'?


     The overall mission of a military is to allow your side free
use of a territory and to deny the other side free use of territory.

Specific missions:
   Take and occupy ground; accomplished by armor, mech-infantry and
infantry units.
   Interdict and destroy ground forces; Ground Attack Aircraft.
   Maintain air superiority; Fighter Aircraft.

The overall mission of a future military should pretty much stay the
same, but what about the specific missions and what accomplishes
them?

Well, "Take and ocuppy ground" still applies, and now that task falls
to the grav-tanks, grav-apcs and other grav vehicles along with the
infantry.

Now what about "Interdict and destroy ground forces"?  That use to
be the task of ground attack aircraft because they had the speed and
range to get to around, but can't that task now be handled by fast
grav vehicles?  The grav vehicle would have a longer on station time
because it wouldn't have to be flying all the time, it would also
be harder to spot, sitting stationary on the ground.  Sneak in fast
the night before, set an ambush for a convoy and split right afterwards.

What does all this do to the fighter's mission?  Or is a fighter the
high tech level 'gunship' able to swoop down from orbit to attack,
not ground, but planetary bound forces?

     It seems to me that the future "Air Force" ceases to exist.
The main staple of a military is it's fast armored grav vehicles.
The space arm of a planetary force providing gunships and gunship 
interceptors.

     I recall seeing some TO&Es in The Journal's earlier issues, around
13-17.  I'll look there too.

     I haven't mentioned naval forces at all.  What does the futuristic
navy consist of?

     So, what do people think?

Brian Gillespie 
was: Computervision Corp.
now: Computervision Division of Prime, Inc.

email: bgillesp@beast.prime.com

#include "standard.disclaimers"



-------- TML Message #1240 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1240
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 90 13:24 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: On perpetual motion machines in Traveller


Bart, the fact that the thruster plate is a perpetual motion machine
as it's described in the SOM has been well-documented by Dow Rieder,
who's also coughed up some very entertaining descriptions of how an
ordinary starship can generate enough power to run a planet's cities....
Maybe he could repost (hint hint), or James could point to an archive
number (hint hint)?

metlay

-------- TML Message #1241 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1241
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 90 13:41:33 -0700
From: Homer Dired <fusile@milton.u.washington.edu>
Subject: Hydrogen Storage

Wouldn't it be possible (in the "Far Future") to compress hydrogen into
a solid state (I remember seeing a newspaper article about people doing
that a while back)? I have no idea how much longer (if longer) this
would take to use and/or what kind of power would be required, but it
would certainly seem to save space.

	-H

-------- TML Message #1242 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1242
Date:     Fri, 20 Apr 90 21:38:46 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Re: Mass independent drives

I don't have MegaT yet so this may be way off base.

Seems to me some (or a lot) of this mass/volume inconsistency might
go away if the guys at GDW trashed the mass independent drive and
introduced some new lightweight super-strong metal/alloy/plastic.

Going from the armor type list in Striker, armor gets lighter with
a TL 7 composite, and then everything gets heavy.  Sure, the armor
value to weight ratio increases, but the density starts heading for
neutron star.

Of course, then you'd have to come up with a good reason why said
armor is only used on spacecraft.  Maybe it degrades outside of a
vacuum, and you can't coat it for some reason.  That'd be a better
reason for all the larger ships being non-atmosphere capable than
streamlining.  I mean c'mon, if a battleship can pull 6 g's, it can
certainly match speeds with a planet's rotating atmosphere and make
a soft landing.
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1243 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1243
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 90 00:35:04 EDT
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Reactionless drives, Fighting Ships, and Hydrogen Substitutes


First of all a typo in John Kim's study of ammonia vs. methane vs.
hydrogen: Water doesn't really boil at zero celcius.

I agree with George Herbert's analysis of the problems of the starship
design vis. reactionless drives, the densities of the ships now
varies quite widely. For example a tanker can have a density
as low as 0.30 MetricTonnes per kiloLitre, a scout ship 0.68, and
a Battleship 15.4.
With regards to using alternate fuel, the difference in mass of 4x for
the fuel doesn't change the density so significantly that it is not
benificial to change fuel storage, regardless of drive type. eg.
a scout ship's density would increase to 0.84, less than 30% increase
for double fuel storage.

In looking over Fighting ships, for the above I discovered that the
armour violations are there, but not as bad as someone ealier reported.
At tech 15 up to 75 points (15x5) can be *added* to the hull. This gives
a maximum of 40+75 or 115 armour. 6 of the 21 battleships exceed the
armour restrictions: (BH-15, BH-14, BM-15, BL-13 by 5, BB-12 by 10, and
BB-11 by 15). However the error could be on the listing, and the
actual ship values could use the correct weaights.

Finally, I was trying to go through some of the physics/math behind
this reactionless drive problem, and I am having problems, perhaps
someone of a better physics background coul e-mail me directly and
help me out. (This probably explains why I dropped out of physics
back in 2nd year)... The problem is work is dependant on distance, and
given an engine acceleration d=.5at^2, however energy use for the
engine is linear with t, therefore if t varies, the work done by
the engine is not a constant? Help! (More details via e-mail).

					-Dan Corrin

-------- TML Message #1244 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1244
Date:     Fri, 20 Apr 90 22:04:32 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Compressing hydrogen

Hydrogen turns to a solid at -262 C  (11 K).  Unfortunately,
the density decreases (sort of like water) from 70.8 g/l to
70.6 g/l.

On compressing hydrogen: (CRC page B-20)

... In 1973 it was reported that a group of Russian experi-
menters may have produced metallic hydrogen at a pressure of
2.8 Mbar.  At the transition the density changed from 1.08 g/ml
to 1.3 g/ml. ... It has been predicted that metallic hydrogen
may be metastable; others have predicted it would be a super-
conductor at room temperature. ...
- -----
2.8 Mbar is roughly 2.8 million atmospheres.  On the other
hand, 1.08 g/ml is fifteen times denser than liquid H2 at
one atm.  Anyone have pressure-volume-temperature charts
for hydrogen?

John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1245 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1245
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 90 11:27:51 EST
From: Paul Dale <grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au>
Subject: Change of e-mail address...

hiya,

	My e-mail address changed in Janurary this year, and recently I have
received a complaint about the quantity of mail that still goes through my
old address.  Would any of you who have my old e-mail address (it will
mention lance or eldritch in it) please change it to my new address.  The
old e-mail address is likely to start bouncing in the near future.

	If you've never contacted me by e-mail then don't worry about this.




							Pauli
seeya
SNIF

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Qld              | JANET:           grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4067         | EAN:                          grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!batserver.cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e7g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au


-------- TML Message #1246 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1246
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 90 22:28:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re:  DANGER: Mass-Independent Drive...

Bart Massey writes:
>> ...the way an MT manuver drive works is counterintuitive (ie only volume is
>> important, not mass).  In any drive that depends on mass, this won't work
>> well...

>Aiigh.  I don't know my Traveller well enough to comment very authoritatively,
>but if the above statement is true, a Traveller perpetual motion machine
>(i.e. an infinite energy source) exists.

Yup, it sure does. However, you don't need mass-independence to get energy;
All the is required is that the drive is reactionless.  I worked through
the equations,
and it turns out that any drive that violates Newton's 3rd law
(action/reaction) will
*automatically* violate conservation of energy. Here's why:
(anyone who doesn't want the gory details, skip the rest)

	Say we have a ship that masses 1500 tons, and requires 280 MW to accelerate
at 1g.  After T seconds of accelleration in one direction, the energy
expended will be
2.8e8*T joules, and the kinetic energy of the ship will be 1/2 MV^2
= 0.5 * 1.5e6*(9.8*T)^2 = ~7.2e7 * T^2 joules. This means energy in is
linear in T,
while energy of the ship is quadratic in T; so only at one value of T
will they be equal,
and by choosing sufficiently large T ( in this case more than about 4
seconds) the ship
has more KE than energy put in.
	My perpetual motion machine design is 2 sets of reverse linear accellerators
on an airless world, about 1000 km apart.  The ship runs on batteries, and it
accellerates to ~4 km/sec then cruises through the hoops, decellerating
magnetically,
and in the process generating electrical energy, which is stored. After
the ship is
stopped, it recharges its batteries with a fraction of the energy it
just generated and
heads back towards the other set of hoops. Result: Lots of free electric power.
(HLG Inc., Patent Pending)
	Of course, the energy-producing Megacorps either squelch this or have
a monopoly on it, so you still have to pay for power :-)
	I always have had fun figuring this sort of stuff out to bug the GM with,
especially since he is a physicist :-)  He is smart tho and usually says
"OK, if you're
so bright, figure out why everyone isn't doing it..."

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

-------- TML Message #1247 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1247
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 90 22:57:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Just add water

	Methane and ammonia are more space efficient, but water has several
advantages: its cheap, very common, easy to handle and store (can be
stored at room
temp), and can be handled by standard purification plants. Methane would
still be best
in some cases tho (like trying to cross the Rift with multiple jumps w/o
refuelling)
	As for Bertil's (quite valid) question of why everyone isn't doing it, well
thats the other half of the problem...:-)  Here are some ideas:
	If most of your fuel is water and your purification plant gets knocked out,
your in big trouble - so thats a reason for Navy ships not to use it.
	The Vilani won't use it cause LH2 works fine, and its traditional...:-)
	Anyone in a big hurry, or whose purification plant takes a long time
to finish would want LH2, so they can jump/fight/whatever quicker.
	I think that a combination of these reasons could explain why most
of the "standard" designs use LH2.  However, even if the ship wasn't designed
for it, you can still use water; this could be a common "trick of the
trade" for
merchants trying to squeeze in more cargo. I think that GDW and/or Digest
Group might accept that.  (This is also a possible reason to provide life
support etc, for the fuel tankage; it might be modified to hold other stuff...)
This still lets you design your own ships to use water -- have fun.

"How's business?  Well, if you were a free trader in the Solomani Rim, and
the Vilani big three had just pulled out all their merchants from the whole
sector, how do you think you would be doing?" - Capt. Grant

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

-------- TML Message #1248 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1248
Date:     Sat, 21 Apr 90 22:56:40 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Re: Just add water


On the advantages of water over ammonia (heck, I started
the ammonia bit, might as well defend it :-), the point
I see is that although water is safer than ammonia, they
are both waaaaaay safer than LH2 at 13 K (or whatever).
I also don't recall which is more abundant, methane,
ammonia, or water.

Now to extoll the virtues of water:  Why should you be
worried about being unable to convert water to H2?  All
you need is some electricity and two wires.  Once you
generate a small amount of H2, you can run it through
your fusion plant to get more electricity, and so on.
"Damn, only two hours of air and we're out of fuel.
Frank, bring that pitcher of water, and we're gonna
have to bust your flashlight."

Do you even need electricity?  I always thought burning
unrefined fuel was like sending H2O straight through the
fusion plant, where the heat would be enough to break the
hydrogen and oxygen apart{.  Drive failures would be caused
by extranneous oxygen "clogging up the valves".  Hmm, more
to think about...
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1249 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1249
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 90 16:04 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: On "bugging" the GM with Traveller metaphysics....


I have to comment on Dow Rieder's joke about bugging me with the little 
ways in which Traveller plays it fast and loose with spacetime. I wouldn't
say that I completely dodge the issue by saying, "OK, if you're so bright,
figure out why everyone else isn't doing it"; I tend to think that "everyone"
isn't doing it because it can't be done. In other words, I limit the physically
impossible parts of Traveller to doing the things they were designed to do by
the idiots who wrote the rules, and simply draw the line at anyone utilizing
them for nefarious purposes. I suppose I should justify the lines I draw, but
with a group of mature and unmunchkinlike gamers like the one I run, it isn't
a problem to say, "Look, there's a reason it can't be done: game mechanics.
If I must, I'll make one up for your characters to grok, but why bother?" 

It's easy to wave one's hands at fantasy games: if magic works, all bets are
off, period. Dragons and Unicorns and so on can exist, and that's all she 
wrote. Science Fiction games are a tougher proposition, though; at least to a 
certain extent, they must follow the physical laws of the world as we know
them. I did an informal talk on this at a GenCon many years ago, and postulated
two extremes when approaching this problem, and tried to rate various games
in terms of their positions between those two extremes. I called the extremes
"ScienceFantasy" and "Scientifiction," or if you prefer, "HyperFantastic" and
"HyperRealist". Both extremes start with the same assumption: that Einstein
was wrong. The HyperFant view is then, "Well, if relativity doesn't work, then
all bets are off, and let's have some fun." The HyperReal view, however, is,
"We have a lot of data on how the Universe works already; it doesn't berc
ome
invalid, only extended in applicability." One view shreds the reality we know;
the other adds elements of wonder to the familiar world. 

The primary advantage of HyperFant games is that they're more romantic. The
technology is glitzy and exciting, and it's easier to believe in things like
true love and Good vs Evil. The primary advantage of HyperReal games is that
they make sense, and are believable in a fundamental way that makes them easy
to relate to. Both means have their advantages and shortcomings; neither is 
"right" or "wrong." Also, both have fundamental pitfalls; all HyperFant games
eventually degrade into silliness when things get out of hand, and all Hyper-
Real games run into inconsistencies at some point.

Some examples: Star Wars is the ultimate HyperFant game, with starfighters
dogfighting, lightsabres humming, and (dead HyperFant giveaway!) "Blasters"
blazing. A close second is Space Opera, with its melange of Star Wars, Dune,
and the Lensman series of books. Other games with strong HyperFant leanings
are the Mechanoid games, Star Ace, Star Frontiers (if you think OUR jump
drives are nonsensical...!), and Star Trek. The FASA games tend to appeal
to wide audiences because they straddle the fence; both BattleTech/MechWarrior
and Shadowrun go full tilt in both directions. HyperReal games include FTL
2448, Traveller 2300, and (tho I haven't worked much with it) GURPS Space.
The ultimate HyperReal game from a scientific standpoint is unquestionably
Albedo, whose starship combat system is totally realistic and VERY unpleasant.
And in a close but fading second place, alas, is Traveller.

In the first ten years of its development, Traveller was the ultimate in
playable, accurate HyperRealist SF gaming. Everything made a fair amount
of sense, certain implied physicalities ("Thruster plates? What're THOSE?")
helped keep things consistent, and there was no attempt to glitz up the rules
by adding nifty-keen stuff like reactionless drives and so on. More problems
have been created than were solved by doing this, and instead of attracting
a wider audience with the "new and neato Traveller," GDW and DGP have only
succeeded in aggravating those with a penchant for consistency and accuracy
in their science. 

So what do we do about it, you ask? Well, every GM has his own methods; I
prefer to roll with the punches. Thruster plate technology is only useful
for moving starships, Jump technology only works for Jumps, and antigrav
technology is used for moving things around cleanly. I have other games that
I can run, like Space Opera and my own StarGate rules, that are either 
deliberately campy or brutally realistic; in Traveller, I prefer to wince
through Dow's discoveries, dream of the good'ol'days, and just try to run
the most fun game I can. Ultimately, it's the characters and the fun they have
that makes or breaks any RPG, and at least as of this rev of the rules,
people are still people. 

I'm a shaddupa now.

metlay

-------- TML Message #1250 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1250
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 90 15:52:50 -0500
From: tey@sage.cc.purdue.edu
Subject: Alternativew Fuels and such...


You know, I just thought of something...Water is a good fuel source because it's
cheap(read: free), stable, and easy to handle 'cos it's just plain liquid at
room tempreature...but there's something wrong with that:

Who sez your fuel tanks are kept at room temperature?

What kind of idiot would waste all kinds of life support and power by putting
pressurization and heating coils into a starship's fuel dump??? Once that
stuff gets purified to H2, one short circuit could(assuming your engineer
rolled a '2' :-) blow the whole ship to Kingdom Come!  H2 is flammable at
STP, ani't it? 

Now of course, you could just stay on the water's surface until your purifiers
take care of everything, but what if you get run off?  If your fuel bays AREN'T
pressurize and heated, then once you get out of the atmosphere and into the
(I think) ~4 deg. K of Space(tm), all that unpurified water will freeze, 
shattering your tanks! And don't forget, you're probably still running from
whatever shooed you off the water to begin with! What a lousy day!

Yeah, ammonia, methane, and LH2 have to kept at ungodly low temperatures to
be stable, but in space...no one can hear you melt...:-)


DISCLAIMER: Please note that all of the above was stated by a totally
	chem-ignorant Computer Science major...so if I screwed up in
	my assumptions, in the words of Bart Simpson, "Don't kill me Homer."


*****************************************************************************
                                  |"And all this science, I don't understand.
  tey@sage.cc.purdue.edu(Legion)  | It's just my job, five days a week."
                                  |                     -Bernie Taupin
*****************************************************************************

-------- TML Message #1251 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1251
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Reactionless drives. (How should it be done?)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 90 8:26:38 MET DST

Would it be resonable if a drive worked by direct transformation of the
supplied energy into potential(?) and kinetic energy? This would (I think)
avoid the problem of the manueverdrive pepetum mobile?

Some questions for any Physics majors out there:
Will this lead to major problems of some kind?
Is this really worthwile or is it better to use standard "oldfashioned" :-)
fusiondrives that uses H2O (or whatever) as a reaction mass?

- -bertil-
- -- 
Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se 
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      
"I say cut his air!" "I say cut his heat!" "I say raise his rent!" "Hey, we're 
trying to get rid of an Alien, not evict a tenant!" Alien - American MAD version

-------- TML Message #1252 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1252
Subject: Gauss weapons ...
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 90 09:37:42 +0100
From: Jim Cheetham <is_a063%ux.kingston.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>


	From Adrian Hurt :-
>  I still think that either the gauss weapons fire high velocity, i.e.
>  supersonic  rounds, in which case they aren't silent except in vacuum
>  or near vacuum; or they are silent, therefore subsonic,

	I think I'll beg to disagree with the intention of this statement.
	The basis of Gauss guns being silent is that they don't use chemical
	explosion to launch the missile, they accelerate it over an immense
	magnetic potential energy difference (or something like that ...)
	This means that the *mechanism* of the launch is silent. It also
	means that many varied missile types can be launched - delicate
	ones such solid chemical slivers (remember the bit on non-lethal
	weapons ...?) that wouldn't withstand the effects of an explosion
	to launch them.
	As for the rounds' speed affecting the amount of noise generated,
	yes, I can see the argument about supersonic speeds. You probably
	would hear the MACH barrier pressure wave as it passed you, but
	your target wouldn't ... until it was too late.
	If you want to use the gauss weapon as a sniper tool, it's important
	that your position isn't given away (hence use subsonic speeds),
	but presumably it isn't important whether or not they know the target
	has been hit (they will presumably find out sooner or later ... :-)
	so why not use a variant of smart round that explodes on impact and
	gives the final `shove' to the front portion of the round that has
	to do the hard part of penetrating armour ... ?
	
	Alternatively, do away with hand-to-hand combat and accelerate
	an asteroid straight onto the battle-ground. Nothing like a
	nice 300-km wide crater to encourage the other side to surrender!
	(Apologies - got a bit carried away there ... sorry ! :-}
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     _____               (JANET) jcheetham@uk.ac.kingston
    (__ __) O  ______    (local) is_a063@ux.king
   (____)  (_)(_)()(_)   (voice) (+44) 1 549 1366 x2690
   Jim Cheetham, ISD Kingston Polytechnic.
   "... nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-------- TML Message #1253 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1253
Date:     Tuesday 24th April 1990 10:16:25 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR%cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>
Subject:  Fleet Escort deck plans

A few weeks ago, someone was asking about deck plans for the P.F.Sloan
class fleet escort.  Well, I just stumbled into them in Challenge #25.
 
Hope this helps.
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:

-------- TML Message #1254 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1254
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: Gauss weapons ...
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 90 13:03:20 PDT

>From Jim Cheetham :-
>     From Adrian Hurt :-
>>  I still think that either the gauss weapons fire high velocity, i.e.
>>  supersonic  rounds, in which case they aren't silent except in vacuum
>>  or near vacuum; or they are silent, therefore subsonic,
>
>     I think I'll beg to disagree with the intention of this statement.
>     The basis of Gauss guns being silent is that they don't use chemical
>     explosion to launch the missile, they accelerate it over an immense
>     magnetic potential energy difference (or something like that ...)
>     This means that the *mechanism* of the launch is silent. It also
>     means that many varied missile types can be launched - delicate
>     ones such solid chemical slivers (remember the bit on non-lethal
>     weapons ...?) that wouldn't withstand the effects of an explosion
>     to launch them.
>     As for the rounds' speed affecting the amount of noise generated,
>     yes, I can see the argument about supersonic speeds. You probably
>     would hear the MACH barrier pressure wave as it passed you, but
>     your target wouldn't ... until it was too late.

Sorry, but I have to side with Adrian.  Speaking as an experienced hunter
and rabid firearms enthusiast, I can guarantee you that a 4mm supersonic
gauss needle makes a very noticable noise and a subsonic needle might not
even go through a thick leather jacket.  That is, of course, unless there
is some characteristic of gauss needles that cause them to behave in a sub-
stantially different fashion that other high velocity airborne projectiles.

Compare a 4mm needle (which is .157 caliber) to a .22 cal. long rifle
round.  The .22 round is supersonic and most of the 'crack' you hear
when firing it is due to the sonic shock wave.  A .22 short round, on
the other hand, is subsonic and is noticably quieter.  It can also be
stopped by 6 inches of compressed cardboard or a single 2 inch fir board.

Since the MACH wave disturbs the air, even people behind the firing point
will hear the report, otherwise (in the above example) the person firing
the .22 long round would never hear anything but the chemical explosion,
since they were behind the muzzle of the rifle.  Personal experience proves
that to be wrong.

As for your target not hearing the report until it was too late, well,
no one is arguing that.  But the same is true today for game/combat rifles
such as the 7mm Magnum, the .22-250, the 25-06, and 5.56mm NATO (to name a
few), which also fire supersonic rounds.  And finally, what would it matter
if the sonic wave preceeded the slug?  The .45 ACP (which was the standard
sidearm for U.S. armed forces until a few years ago) is subsonic and I
doubt that there are any documented cases of people dodging the slug after
they hear the shot fired at them.

While the magnetic acceleration process of the gauss weapon may be ABSOLUTELY
silent (and I have my doubts about this also), anyone within several hundred
meters of the weapon will be treated to the staccato crack of gauss needles
punching holes in the air.

Later,

            Noting the prominent bio-hazard labels on the canisters, Case
        commented, "I wouldn't play with those, boy.  You might get hurt."
            "Why don't you go lick a dog's ass 'til it bleeds." came the
        reply.
                 - "Neuromancer"

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1255 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1255
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 90 18:13 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: On reactionless drives


Bertil, I don''t think your idea solves anything. What sort of potential
energy would such a device create? Engines, by definition, turn potential
energy (the chemical or nuclear energy in the fuel, or electrical potential
in a battery) into kinetic energy and waste heat. The fact that a drive
is reactionless means that you make an object move without waste, in fact
with the use of less chemical energy than the kinetic energy you require.
Thus, you're creating energy out of nothing. My personal wish was that the
folx at GDW and DGP had just left the maneuver drives as fusion torches,
which follow reasonable laws and so forth. There have been mumblings to the
effect of "Oh, they were *always* reactionless, we just made it official
recently," from the designers, or so I've heard. I doubt this is true. If
so, then the decision was misguided from the start.

With a cantankerous "harrumph,"

metlay

-------- TML Message #1256 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1256
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 90 11:38 EST
From: "Bruce T. Ritchie" <BRUCER%PSC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject: Off the Beaten Path (the Space & Rocket Center)

        Whew! After all the `heavy' postings lately on Fuel storage, ship
            design, weapon effectiveness et. al., this may seem trivial,
            but I though y'all might enjoy it.

        I recently had to take a trip to Huntsville, Alabama,and spent a
            day at the Space & Rocket Center located there. Now for those
            of you located in the Spinward Marches, Huntsville is the
            home of the Redstone Missile Arsenal (developer of, among
            others, the Nike, Ajax, Hawk and Redstone missiles), The
            George C. Marshall Space Flight Center (NASA's center for
            propulsion development), and the U.S. Space Camp and U.S.
            Space Academy. The Redstone rocket that powered the Mercury
            space flight were built and test stand fired here, as were
            the Saturn I (Gemini), Saturn V (Apollo and all Moon
            missions), and much of the Shuttle. All of these are on
            display, including a full scale Shuttle, with external tanks
            and SRB's! Very Impressive!

        And the museum has lots of hands-on exhibits on every aspect of
            space travel. I never saw a kid wandering around with that
            "why did I get dragged Here" look! Many items on display are
            the real thing, like Wally Schirra's Sigma 7 Mercury capsule,
            and the Apollo 16 cockpit. In addition there is a large
            Omnimax theater (67' hemispherical screen) that, at the time,
            was showing "The Dream Is Alive". Very Good!

        Also, there is a bus tour that takes you through the Arsenal and
            Marshall center to see the test-stands where engines are
            fired, and gives you a tour through the working mock-up of
            the Space Station Freedom (due to begin launching in 1995).

        Cost for everything (Museum, Theater, and Bus tour) is only
            $10.00. A steal! I spent 6+ hours there and still had more to
            see.... I've been to the Nation Air and Space Museum in
            Washington, and while that's great, this is better!

        If any of you have specific questions (that you think I could
            answer 8-)), feel free to drop me a mail message at the
            address below. This is Not a paid endorsement!
```````````````````````````````````^^^`````````````````````````````````
        Bruce T. Ritchie (Brucer@PSC.Bitnet) AKA: Zben Blaine
        Plymouth State College
        Plymouth, N.H. USA
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
"The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground,
                              and miss.
                                Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

-------- TML Message #1257 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1257
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: On reactionless drives
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 90 11:56:46 BST

> From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> 
> Bertil, I don''t think your idea solves anything. What sort of potential
> energy would such a device create? Engines, by definition, turn potential
> energy (the chemical or nuclear energy in the fuel, or electrical potential
> in a battery) into kinetic energy and waste heat. The fact that a drive
> is reactionless means that you make an object move without waste, in fact
> with the use of less chemical energy than the kinetic energy you require.
> Thus, you're creating energy out of nothing.

I think what Bertil was trying to say is, what is wrong with turning a ship
from having X megajoules of energy stored as potential energy, to a ship
having .9 X megajoules of kinetic energy and .1 X megajoules of waste energy
(e.g. heat) without having to dump a load of stuff out of the back to satisfy
Newton?  This doesn't create energy out of nothing, and doesn't violate
conservation of energy.  Having said that, see below.

>						My personal wish was that the
> folx at GDW and DGP had just left the maneuver drives as fusion torches,
> which follow reasonable laws and so forth. There have been mumblings to the
> effect of "Oh, they were *always* reactionless, we just made it official
> recently," from the designers, or so I've heard.

Let the mumblers take a look at some GDW drawings of starships.  The old
supplements 7 (Traders and Gunboats) and 9 (Fighting Ships - not to be confused
with the new one) have pictures of ships with exhaust nozzles.  

All my models of ships (made back in Ye Olde Traveller days) still have exhaust
nozzles, which should tell you a bit about my faith in reactionless drives. :-)

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1258 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1258
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 90 19:35:41 PDT
From: gwh%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@lilac.berkeley.edu
Subject: Why we don't see methane or ammonia-fuel starships

Ok, went home and thought about it and cranked some numbers.  Figured out why
you don't want to use different fuels.

The average starship has much if not most of its fuel volume as jump fuel.  
Now, from Starship Operators Guide [yes, it's not GDW but they approved it so
i figure it's official], the Zuchai energy storage capacitors in a Jump drive
can't be held charged for more than two hours safely; three max.  Thus, the
jump powerplant must generate its power within [let's say for safety's sake]
an hour.  And it needs enough fuel to run for an hour...

Now, if we're going to purify something else on the fly, this means that we
need six times the usual purification plant [which will take 6 hours].  At
TL 15, the purification plant is 20% of the fuel volume for the 6hr version.
For our faster requirements, it rises to 120%.  This means that the total
of jump fuel volume and purification plant is now 220% of what we started 
with...and even with a fuel of relative hydrogen density 1.9 we are still
16% over the volume of pure hydrogen.  You Lose...

Even if we're optomistic, and assume that we can push the two-hour lower
limit on crystal charge, we're at 160% volume, divided by 1.9 to 84% of the
origional volume.  We only gain 16%, and in the process lose reliability 
[if the purif plant breaks we're stuck], safety [how long do you WANT to hold
those crystals charged???], and convenience [ya want WHAT instead of hydrogen?]
compared to hydrogen.  Plus, the added cost of the purification plant [a not
inconsiderable 150kCr/kl ] makes this a touchy option.

It is no longer the wonder-fuel.  Go home, people, and have a good night.  If
you really want to trade off the 16% for the added headache i won't mind if
I'm GMing, but i warned ya what's going to go wrong :-)

*******************************************************************************
George William Herbert              JOAT For Hire: Anything, Anywhere: My Price
   UCB Naval Architecture undergrad: Engineering with a Bouyant Attitude :-)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Who?" the man managed.                    Whip me, Beat Me, Make me learn C...
"The Rastafarian Navy," Case said,         ++++++++++ gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu  OR
"...and all we want is a jack into your    ========== gwh@soda.berkeley.edu OR
custodial system." -neuromancer            """""""" maniac@garnet.berkeley.edu

-------- TML Message #1259 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1259
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 90 22:39 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: Yo! PBEMers!


I don't know about y'all, but I've been at a Conference getting my pointed
little head stuffed full of neat physics! What're YOUR excuses? I haven't
seen a single piece of PBEM-related mail (except Jaron's probe designs) in
over a week! WHERE IS EVERYBODY?

metlay

PS. And Richard Johnson, having just lain down to sleep for the first time
in a month, bolts out of bed screaming, "NO! WAIT! SHUT UP! ARRRRGH!" |->

-------- TML Message #1260 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1260
Date:     Thu, 26 Apr 90 1:50:47 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Why you SHOULD see ammonia-fuel starships

Good reasoning George.  One problem.  We got on this alternate fuel
stuff by challenging GDW's universe with real universe physics.  You
then went back to GDW physics to disallow this.  But if we stick to
real world physics (or chemistry as it turns out)...

Ammonia is synthesized from N2 and H2 by the Haber-Bosch process.
One of the big problems with this process is that for the reaction
N2 + 3 H2 --> 2 NH3  to proceed quickly, you have to raise the
temperature.  But raising the temperature shifts the equilibrium
back towards N2 and H2.  This is a big problem when you're trying
to make ammonia out of N2 and H2, but it is exactly what we want
if we're out to purify ammonia into H2.  In fact, at 800K the
equilibrium constant calls for:

          (pressure H2)^3 * (pressure N2)
          ------------------------------- = 25000
                  (pressure NH3)^2

i.e.  You don't need a purification plant.  All you need is a bit
of empty fuel space (to allow for the gaseous ammonia, N2, and H2).
>From there:
     Heat the ammonia to 800K
     It vaporizes and splits into N2 and H2
     Separate the gases with a grav plate.
     Dump the N2 into space
     Send the H2 into the power plant and jump drives

The only other thing you'll need is insulating partitions dividing
your fuel into jump-1 amounts.  It wouldn't do to vaporize all your
fuel when all you wanted was a jump-1.

Wow, it's even easier to purify than water!
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1261 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1261
Date:         Fri, 27 Apr 90 01:00:34 CDT
From: "C. Patrick Simons" <UD078317@vm1.nodak.edu>
Subject:      Ramblings on a Sniper theme



     Lately there has been some traffic on subsonic and supersonic
rounds for sniper rifles.  Well, perhaps I can help a little here.

     There are exactly two things paramount in mind with a sniper
with a mission:  1) getting away alive 2) getting the target.
Notice that personal survival is of a higher priority.  This is
emphasised over and over again in training.  You can always come back
for another try at the target (that is, if you get away ok).

Now, before you blow up, no, I have not seen live combat (thank GOD!).
However, I have participated in excercises that were damn real, and
that I was 'killed' because either I was detected approaching, on
hitting the target, or on leaving.  The first and last were my fault.
The last is dependant on how the mission is set up.  If it is a
relatively easy hit, you can stand off a nice long distance and
deliver the present at conveniece.  However, on most targets that
snipes are sent after, you have to get in relatively close, and
that is where you want the quietest damn shot in the world.  This
really works.  I've succeeded on penetrating a hard target, making
the tag, and getting away safely because I waited until the conditions
were right.

     Ok, ok.  Enough rambling.
1)  Long distance shot.  Use the high velocity rounds.  It makes for
    a better shot.

2)  Short distance shot.  Use low velocity, cause anything you can
    do to cut down detection in ANY WAY increases your life expectancy
    tons.

This really is a decision that has to be made by each man.  I can
think of only one 'mission' where two shooters actually choose the
same approach and all the rest.  Everything else is personalized to
extreme detail.  Each has different methods, approaches, styles,
etc, etc, ad nauseum.  You may think the shooter as an impersonal
bastard, but in ways we live more in a short time than joe normal
lives his entire life.

(Personally, I like this chemical sliver stuff..they'd never notice me!)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
C.P.Simons
UD078317@NDSUVM1.Bitnet  UD078317@vm1.nodak.edu
"With the good Lord above me, and a drill sergeant behind me screaming
and shouting, I can do damn near anything!"
disclaimer: why, everything, of course!
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------- TML Message #1262 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1262
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 90 23:17:03 PDT
From: gwh%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@lilac.berkeley.edu

>Good reasoning George.  One problem.  We got on this alternate fuel
>stuff by challenging GDW's universe with real universe physics.  You
>then went back to GDW physics to disallow this.  But if we stick to
>real world physics (or chemistry as it turns out)...

Hey, no fair.  It's been two years since i did reaction chem!  [he's
right, however, folks 8-) ]

>From there:
>     Heat the ammonia to 800K
>     It vaporizes and splits into N2 and H2
>     Separate the gases with a grav plate.
>     Dump the N2 into space
>     Send the H2 into the power plant and jump drives
>
>The only other thing you'll need is insulating partitions dividing
>your fuel into jump-1 amounts.  It wouldn't do to vaporize all your
>fuel when all you wanted was a jump-1.

What you're proposing here is just an ammonia-specific purification process.
I would bet that the easy way to do this would be not in the tank, but in a
seperate purifier, which ought to be simpler and smaller than the book ones
since it doesn't have to be able to deal with anything but ammonia.

>From a process-design standpoint, i can guarantee you that doing the above
operation in a continuous flow is easier than in one reaction chamber
[fuel tank].  
Shall we treat it as a smaller purification plant?  Let's say only 25% of
the normal mass due to less required flexibility?
It will probably also need more power...


Ok; revision of my previous posting with better numbers reflecting this:
For the one-hour version; 30% of fuel tank volume in purification plant, 
at 0.4 mass tons and 150kCr per kl of purifier [the same as normal purif
plants.]  Total vol 130% of ammonia tank vol; with the hydrogen density boost
the total volume drops to 68.5% of what the LH2 fuel would take up.  For
a two-hour charge, it's 15% of tank vol in purification plant and total vol 
goes to 115% of fuel vol; corresponding to 60.5% of the corresponding vol
for LH2.  You still have the added cost due to the purif plant and possible
problems from the purifier failing to deal with.


*******************************************************************************
George William Herbert              JOAT For Hire: Anything, Anywhere: My Price
   UCB Naval Architecture undergrad: Engineering with a Bouyant Attitude :-)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Who?" the man managed.                    Whip me, Beat Me, Make me learn C...
"The Rastafarian Navy," Case said,         ++++++++++ gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu  OR
"...and all we want is a jack into your    ========== gwh@soda.berkeley.edu OR
custodial system." -neuromancer            """""""" maniac@garnet.berkeley.edu

-------- TML Message #1263 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1263
Date:     Fri, 27 Apr 90 15:29 EDT
From: SYLVAIN$%DAYTON.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu
Subject:  Address & Account Information

This account is going belly up, and I may or may not have an account
this summer. Therefore, oh TML Admin, please stop sending the list here.
As for you PBEMers, send any stuff like moves to the address down below.
I may or may not be able to reply, so don't feel insulted. This is just
so that in the worst case, I still will have more or less complete game
records.

- ---

EPSL has no UUCP address. It has an Internet address. The best address to
use is "cgs@wam.umd.edu" .. the address "cgs@epsl.umd.edu" should only be
used if some problem develops in the WAM Lab mailer (it hasn't happened
yet).

If for some reason only a UUCP address will do, then mail should be forwarded
to cgs@wam from a UUnet "backbone" site --
sample address: "cgs%wam.umd.edu@uunet.uu.net" <- works for UUCP hosts who
subscribe to the UUnet central host. The "bang path" form of the sample
address: "uunet!wam.umd.edu!cgs"
If for some reason the above doesn't work, then forwarding mail through
UMD5 to WAM will work .. in that case:
 "cgs%wam.umd.edu%umd5.umd.edu@uunet.uu.net" or
 "uunet!umd5!wam.umd.edu!cgs"
- --

-------- TML Message #1264 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1264
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 90 16:38:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Alternative Fuel Storage

[I changed the subject line to be more meaningful -- James]

George William Herbert writes:
>Ok, went home and thought about it and cranked some numbers.  Figured out why
>you don't want to use different fuels.
[shows why you need LH2 for jump fuel]

Quite true. I did a similar analysis. I think that in my original
posting it was
stated that the method wouldn't work for jump fuel.

>The average starship has much if not most of its fuel volume as jump fuel.

That depends.  A scoutship has jump-2 and, if memory serves, a 864Mw
powerplant.  It needs 202.5 kl of jump fuel, and 311.04 kl to power the
fusion plant for a month.  Storing the power plant fuel as water would
save about 100 kl, which would more than triple the cargo capacity.
	Any ship with a purification plant must have segmented fuel
capacity, so storing some fuel as water and some as LH2 works. (although
you probably want to adjust the temperature in a segment before
switching fuel types :-)

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

-------- TML Message #1265 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1265
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 90 17:15:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: On reactionless drives

Adrian Hurt writes:
>I think what Bertil was trying to say is, what is wrong with turning a ship
>from having X megajoules of energy stored as potential energy, to a ship
>having .9 X megajoules of kinetic energy and .1 X megajoules of waste energy
>(e.g. heat) without having to dump a load of stuff out of the back to satisfy
>Newton?  This doesn't create energy out of nothing, and doesn't violate
>conservation of energy.   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes it does.  I posted a detailed example showing why recently.  Even if you
use Bertil's idea of  (Energy needed for drive = KE added to ship) it doesn't
work because you need a non-accelerating reference frame to measure KE.

Example: Suppose you have your ship between planets A and B, which
are moving with respect to one another.  We now have to choose a frame
of reference, say A.  Say the velocity of B with respect to A is 1e3 m/s.
The KE of ship relative to A is 0, and relative to B is 5e5*M joules.
The ship now accelerates to 1e3 m/s relative to A, in the direction
opposite to B's motion.  Now the KE of the ship relative to A is K1 =
5e5*M joules, where M is the mass of the ship, so we expend
(K1 + waste) joules to power the drive.  However our velocity relative
to B is now 2e3 m/s, giving a KE of K2 = 2e6*M joules, which
is an increase of 1.5e6*M joules, creating 1e6 joules of "free" energy
with respect to B.  With a rocket, that energy wouldn't appear since
is has to spend energy to accelerate the reaction mass and it masses
less afterwards.
	
I worked all out with a friend for fun when we were building MT
perpetual motion machines. (So I'm weird - sue me)

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

-------- TML Message #1266 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1266
Date:     Fri, 27 Apr 90 22:28:46 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Re: Alternate fuels--Jump fuel too!

I just thought of a way to get around the slow purification plant/
2 hour zucchini (or whatever) crystal limit.  This time, it's all
kosher with the rules.  I don't have MegaT yet so I can't do any
exact calculations (George, you feel up to it?).

Who says you have to purify your fuel "on the fly"?  If you put
in a moveable partition between the refined and unrefined fuel
(like maybe two "bladders" which can expand to fill the entire
fuel tank), you can refine H2O or NH3 before you start your jump.
You wouldn't be able to refine it all, but you could string two small
jumps together to go further than you normally can.

Example:

Since I don't have Mega-T, I'm going to ignore power plant and
maneuver drives.  Their fuel capacity should help out though by
letting you "steal" some of that space to put refined fuel in.

Take a jump-3 trader.  The captain gets a hot tip that would
let him make a hefty profit on his latest cargo.  Unfortunately,
the destination is 4 parsecs away.  Never fear.  The captain
fills 77.5% of his tanks with ammonia.  This is enough hydrogen
for a jump-4.  He purifies enough to make a jump-1 (19.4%).
This LH2 occupies 33% of the fuel tank, while the leftover
ammonia takes up 58.1% (77.5%-19.4%).  So everything fits.
After the jump-1, the captain purifies the rest of the ammonia
until his tanks are filled.  He then makes his jump-3 and is
promptly killed by pirates because he has no maneuver drives. :-)

If William Dow Rieder's scout ship numbers are right, let's see...
202.5 kl of Jump fuel, 311.04 kl of power plant fuel...
Total fuel capacity = 513.54 kl.  Since the purification plant
can keep up with the power plant, store the power plant fuel as
ammonia.  This cuts down its volume from 311.04 kl to 180.84 kl.
You now have 513.54-180.84 = 332.7 kl left for jump fuel.
Even if you go with straight LH2, you have enough space for
three parsecs worth of fuel (101.25 kl Lh2 for one parsec).
If you go with ammonia, you can put in 235.48 kl (four parsecs)
in.  Purify half of that to leave 117.74 kl of ammonia and
202.50 kl of LH2.  They total 320.24 kl so it all fits.  Do
your first jump-2, then you still have enough methane left
(er, ammonia, sorry) for another jump-2.  

In fact, you're just 4.03 kl short of being able to do a jump-1,
jump-2, jump-2.  If you really wanted to go five parsecs, you'd
only have to give up 4 cubic meters of cargo or power plant fuel
space.
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1267 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1267
Subject: Noisy weapons ..
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 90 13:31:34 +0100
From: Jim Cheetham <is_a063%ux.kingston.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>


>From Mark F. Cook
>  Sorry, but I have to side with Adrian.  Speaking as an experienced hunter
>  and rabid firearms enthusiast, I can guarantee you that a 4mm supersonic
>  gauss needle makes a very noticable noise and a subsonic needle might not
>  even go through a thick leather jacket.
>  ...
>  While the magnetic acceleration process of the gauss weapon may be ABSOLUTELY
>  silent (and I have my doubts about this also), anyone within several hundred
>  meters of the weapon will be treated to the staccato crack of gauss needles
>  punching holes in the air.

	OK, well, nothing like the voice of experience to blow a theory!
	You're right - I hadn't thought it all through properly ...
	I'm still siding with the idea that the acceleration/launching
	process should be silent though ... The only noise I can think
	of would be charging capacitors, and with a bit of TL application
	I would have thought that that could be easily cured ...

	So what about sculpting the needles so that the air-flow around
	then is radically different - ie it generates sound of a frequency
	that is too high for the ears to pick up ? Obviously horribly
	expensive to produce, but would it work ? Subsonic only, I expect ...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     _____               (JANET) jcheetham@uk.ac.kingston
    (__ __) O  ______    (local) is_a063@ux.king
   (____)  (_)(_)()(_)   (voice) (+44) 1 549 1366 x2690
   Jim Cheetham, ISD Kingston Polytechnic.
   "... nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-------- TML Message #1268 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1268
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 90 13:45:49 BST
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: The Temperature of Space

	What with all that talk of fuel tanks freezing over people out there
seem to have this idea that space is cold. Only objects have temperature, space
is a vaccuum and thus has no definitive temperature at all.
	Remember your thermos flasks? A vaccuum is a very good insulator. If
anything you ship will be too hot. When half the solar panels were ripped off
Skylab when it first went up the team had to contend with temperatures over
100oF at times. A spaceship adsorbs all radient energy, raising the 
temperature. The life support system radiates this back into space.  That's
why they're all bright and shiny. Remember how important Albedo was in the
old Scout's book?
	In my own campaign the engines can process their fuel at a variety of
temperatures (certain are more optimal of course). The life support then uses
the fuel mass as a heat sink. Before jump the fuel is cooled (possibly using
outgassing/evaporation). During jump the ship can't radiate energy and so the
heat is pumped into the fuel tanks too keep the place livable. After exiting 
from  jump the heat is then pumped outside.
	My players are crewing an old standard Scout ship. We all already know
the problems that design has with life support. And they are manning eight
people! The jump starts OK but as the days lengthen the temperature raises,
the smell gets worse, and people get narky. The crew nearly mutinied when they
had to jump twice without flushing the air system.
	Other thoughts:
	If your maneuver drives work better with preheated fuel, you can get one
hell of a boost coming out of jump.
	Assuming skimming heats you up, a quick skimm followed by a quick jump
means one hot trip.
	Mold and mildew can be a problem when your life support goes slightly
wonky. They are in Mir. Hot humid air... it's no wonder Scout ships smell.
	Misjumps that cause you to stay in jump longer are real headaches. The
heat exhaustion will probably get you before the 4D-madness.

				Jo Jaquinta
				jaymin@maths.tcd.ie


-------- TML Message #1269 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1269
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Reactionless drives
Date: Tue, 1 May 90 12:57:13 BST

William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> Adrian Hurt writes:
> >I think what Bertil was trying to say is, what is wrong with turning a ship
> >from having X megajoules of energy stored as potential energy, to a ship
> >having .9 X megajoules of kinetic energy and .1 X megajoules of waste energy
> >(e.g. heat) without having to dump a load of stuff out of the back to satisfy
> >Newton?

>								   Even if you
> use Bertil's idea of  (Energy needed for drive = KE added to ship) it doesn't
> work because you need a non-accelerating reference frame to measure KE.

Oh, *@!~.  Relativity strikes again. :-)

After reading this, I did a bit of working out on some scrap paper myself,
which started out with conservation of energy and ended up with conservation
of momentum.  If you really want a long, boring load of ASCII, I can post it
here.  Suffice to say, I was right to leave all those exhaust nozzles on my
model ships!

There is one possible loophole, which someone on rec.arts.sf-lovers suggested.
So-called "reactionless" drives are nothing of the sort; they use the rest of
the universe as a reaction mass.  Someone else can figure out how, or if, this
can be done.  I'm sticking with rockets - they make the models look better.

> I worked all out with a friend for fun when we were building MT
> perpetual motion machines. (So I'm weird - sue me)

You want perpetual motion machines?  Try assuming that a black globe absorbs
gravitons and see what happens.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1270 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1270
Date: Tue, 1 May 90 11:19:07 PDT
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kstclair@jacobs.cs.orst.edu>
Subject: Fool, er, Fuel Discussion

I've been reading the postings on fuel storage, and decided to post this
  song.  If nothing else, it offers an idea on the subject of emergency
  fuel supply...

FOOL TO FEED THE DRIVE


A hundred parsecs out, on a ship quite second rate
The engineer, McQuillin, sent the word up to the mate:
"Our engine's out of steam," he said, "and soon our ship will die,
If we can't find a planet with fuel to feed the drive."

Now, our ship's a noble lady, and our captain, she is, too,
But our engineer is none too bright; the dimwit of our crew.
The captain said,  "I thought you filled the tanks on Vega Five."
McQuillin just looked sheepish.  He forgot to feed the drive.

Can curses stir the gods of space who dwell beyond the stars?
If so, they surely woke up then, for we used up most of ours.
We thought we'd drift forever, lost between the stars we'd die,
And all because McQuillin bought no fuel to feed the drive!

But then the captain's eyes grew bright.  She said,  "It seems to me
That a fusion drive burns H2O."  McQuillin turned to flee.
"Grab him, boys, and hold him.  He's no good to us alive,
But two hundred pounds of water will feed our dyin' drive!"

So once again we fly through space, avoiding all the stars.
Who knows what ruin will take us, what evil fate is ours?
We didn't find our planet, but we'll all but one survive.
As long as we are granted some fool to feed the drive!

                            --Jordin Kare
                              Filk to "Fuel to Feed the Drive" 
                              by Cynthia McQuillin and Phillip Wayne

-------- TML Message #1271 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1271
Date: Wed, 2 May 90 09:11:20 EDT
From: Fiver Toadflax <09nilles%cuavax.dnet@netcon.cua.edu>
Subject: Silencers

>  While the magnetic acceleration process of the gauss weapon may be ABSOLUTELY
>  silent (and I have my doubts about this also), anyone within several hundred
>  meters of the weapon will be treated to the staccato crack of gauss needles
>  punching holes in the air.
     
>>	So what about sculpting the needles so that the air-flow around
>>	then is radically different - ie it generates sound of a frequency
>>	that is too high for the ears to pick up ? Obviously horribly
>>	expensive to produce, but would it work ? Subsonic only, I expect ...

It is also worthy to point out that a simple pillow when held against the
muzzle of a gun, be it supersonic or subsonic, quiets the sound to the point
that a person 20 feet or so away cann't hear it clearly.  Admittedly we
are talking about a single shot.  But there are TWO things that cause the
noise of gun fire.  First and obviously, the expanding gasses of the burning
gun powder, are easily quieted.  Second is the bullet passing the sound
barrior.  Another easily solved problem.  The only real hard part is making
the silenecer have enough space to allow the compression wave to be absorbed
and still have something that is small and light weight.  That is why you will
notice the larger/faster the round, the bigger the silencer.  It would also
be theoretically possible to silence a 155mm Howizer but not practicle.

                 Dave

+-----------------------------------------+
|          09nilles@cua.bitnet            | Nuke 'um Till They Glow
|  09nilles%cuavax.dnet@netcon.cua.edu    |     Then Shoot Them in the Dark
| uunet!cua.bitnet!09nilles@uunet.UU.NET  |
| Fiver.Toadflax@f329.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG | Peace through superior firepower
+-----------------------------------------+


-------- TML Message #1272 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1272
Date: Wed, 2 May 90 17:08:24 -0700
From: "Ted Kim (Random Dude" <tek@lanai.cs.ucla.edu>
Subject: undigestifier

TML submission:

A while back, I asked if anyone had pointers to an undigestifier
program, so that I could be more selective when saving articles from
this mailing list. While better mail programs (mh, mush, etc.) have
them builtin, I did not want to switch just to read this mailing list.
Well, after receiving no suggestions and turning up nothing at uunet,
I wrote my own. 

I make no claim it works for anything in particular or in general at all.
<add legalistic disclaimer mumbo-jumbo here> 

The program is specific to the formatting used in the TML Nightly and
probably dependent on the BSD UNIX way of doing mail. (James, please
don't change the format, or my fragile program will break!) 

Basically, Berkeley mail users can just pipe the TML Nightly into this
program and get the inidividual articles mailed to themselves. Due to
the way TML is formatted, they generally show up with the correct
author and date. (Some articles have no "from" line, and show you as
the author!). Of course, the actual delivery history will show you
mailed to yourself.

- -ted

Ted Kim                           
UCLA Computer Science Department  Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu
3804C Boelter Hall                UUCP:    ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek
Los Angeles, CA 90024		  Phone:   (213) 206-8696
====================================cut here====================================
/*
 * udt: undigestifier for TML Nightly
 * by tek@cs.ucla.edu
 */

#include <stdio.h>

extern char *getenv();
extern void get_line();
extern void peek_line();
extern void put_line();
extern void write_marker();
extern void write_repeated();

#define BUFLEN (1024)
#define HEADER_DASHES (60)
#define ARTICLE_DASHES (30)
#define END_MARKER "End of TML Nightly\n"
#define TMP_FILENAME "/tmp/udXXXXXX"

#define WRITE_EMPTY putc('\n', fp)
#define CLEAR_BUF peeked = 0

main()
{
  register int cont;
  int article, peeked = 0;
  char buf[BUFLEN];

  char filename[256];
  int fd;
  FILE *fp;

  char cmd[BUFLEN];
  char *user = getenv("USER");

  /* header */
  for (cont = 1; cont; ) {
    do get_line(buf, BUFLEN, &peeked); /* anything, blank line */
      while (strlen(buf) > 1);
    peek_line(buf, BUFLEN, &peeked); /* dashes */
    if (!check_repeated(buf, '-', HEADER_DASHES)) 
      continue;
    CLEAR_BUF;
    get_line(buf, BUFLEN, &peeked); /* blank line */
    if (strlen(buf) == 1)		
      cont = 0;
  }
  printf("header removed\n");

  /* articles */
  for (;;) {

    /* open tmp file */
    strcpy(filename, TMP_FILENAME); 
    fd = mkstemp(filename);
    fp = fdopen(fd, "w");

    for (;;) {
      get_line(buf, BUFLEN, &peeked);

      /* check for end of article */
      if (strlen(buf) == 1) {	/* blank line */
	peek_line(buf, BUFLEN, &peeked); /* dashes */
	if (!check_repeated(buf, '-', ARTICLE_DASHES)) {
	  WRITE_EMPTY;
	  continue;
	}
	peek_line(buf, BUFLEN, &peeked); /* blank line */
	if (strlen(buf) > 1) {
	  WRITE_EMPTY;
	  write_repeated(fp, '-', ARTICLE_DASHES);
	  continue;
	}
	CLEAR_BUF;
	fclose(fp);		/* mail article */
	sprintf(cmd, "/bin/mail %s < %s\n", user, filename);
	system(cmd);
	unlink(filename);
	printf("sent article %d\n", ++article);
	break;
      }

      /* check for end of digest */
      else if (strcmp(buf, END_MARKER) == 0) { /* end marker */
	peek_line(buf, BUFLEN, &peeked); /* stars */
	if (!check_repeated(buf, '*', strlen(END_MARKER) - 1 )) { /* no nl */
	  write_marker(fp);
	  continue;
	}
	peek_line(buf, BUFLEN, &peeked); /* blank line */
	if (strlen(buf) > 1) {
	  write_marker(fp);
	  write_repeated(fp, '*', strlen(END_MARKER) - 1);	  
	  continue;
	}
	fclose(fp);		/* exit */
	unlink(filename);
	printf("end of digest\n");
	exit(0);
      }
      
      else
	put_line(buf, fp, &peeked);
    }
  }
}

void
get_line(buf, len, pp)
     char *buf;
     int len, *pp;
{
  if (*pp) 
    *pp = 0;
  else 
    fgets(buf, len, stdin);  
}     

void
peek_line(buf, len, pp)
     char *buf;
     int len, *pp;
{
  fgets(buf, len, stdin);  
  *pp = 1;
}     

void
put_line(buf, fp, pp)
     char *buf;
     FILE *fp;
     int *pp;
{
   fputs(buf, fp);
   *pp = 0;
}

void 
write_marker(fp)
     FILE *fp;
{
  fputs(END_MARKER, fp);
  WRITE_EMPTY;
}

int
check_repeated(buf, c, len)
     char *buf;
     register char c;
     register int len;
{
  register int i;
  register char *cp;
  
  for (i = 1, cp = buf; i < len; i++, cp++) /* check all but the newline */
    if (*cp != c)
      return 0;
  return 1;
}

void
write_repeated(fp, c, len)
     FILE *fp;
     char c;
     register int len;
{
  register int i;

  for (i = 0; i < len; i++)
    putc(c, fp);
  WRITE_EMPTY;
}
====================================cut here====================================

-------- TML Message #1273 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1273
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Pillows as silencers
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 11:21:53 PDT

In TML note 1271 "Silencers" <09nilles%cuavax.dnet@netcon.cua.edu> writes:

>>>While the magnetic acceleration process of the gauss weapon may be ABSOLUTELY
>>>silent (and I have my doubts about this also), anyone within several hundred
>>>meters of the weapon will be treated to the staccato crack of gauss needles
>>>punching holes in the air.
>>     
>>  So what about sculpting the needles so that the air-flow around
>>  then is radically different - ie it generates sound of a frequency
>>  that is too high for the ears to pick up ? Obviously horribly
>>  expensive to produce, but would it work ? Subsonic only, I expect ...
>
>It is also worthy to point out that a simple pillow when held against the
>muzzle of a gun, be it supersonic or subsonic, quiets the sound to the point
>that a person 20 feet or so away cann't hear it clearly.  Admittedly we
>are talking about a single shot.  But there are TWO things that cause the
>noise of gun fire.  First and obviously, the expanding gasses of the burning
>gun powder, are easily quieted.  Second is the bullet passing the sound
>barrior.  Another easily solved problem.  The only real hard part is making
>the silenecer have enough space to allow the compression wave to be absorbed
>and still have something that is small and light weight.  That is why you will
>notice the larger/faster the round, the bigger the silencer.  It would also
>be theoretically possible to silence a 155mm Howizer but not practicle.

I don't think I'd go so far to call the problem "easily solved", Dave,  The
pillow idea (or any other means) still boils down to the same simple truth:
if you want a silent round, reduce it's velocity until it's subsonic.  This
is not as easy as it seems (and for large, powerful rounds, like a .44 Magnum,
a pillow is not nearly enough).

A typical .357 Magnum round (w/ a 200 grain slug, which is roughly 12.9 gm.)
will have a muzzle-energy of 590 ft./lbs. (800 Joules), and a muzzel-velocity
of 1,158 ft./sec. (or 353 M./sec.), which is slightly above the speed of sound
(1,120 ft./sec. at sea level).  Now, 2 simple formulas involving energy, mass,
and velocity (using the metric system) are:
                (((E(j) * 21,630) / M(g))^0.5) / 3.28 = V(m/s)
        - and - ((V(m/s) * 3.28)^2 * M(g)) / 21,630 = E(j)
where E(j) is energy (in Joules), M(g) is Mass (in grams), and V(m/w) is
Velocity (in Meters/Second).  Given these formulas, and the fact that the
mass of the .357 Mag. slug doesn't change, then it follows that to make
the round's velocity drop below supersonic, we must reduce the total energy
of the round by 53.9 Joules (work it out for yourself).  Since this equals
only about 2/3 the muzzle-energy of a .22 short, a thick pillow MIGHT do
the trick, but for more powerful rounds (anything in the high-powered rifle
catagory), forget it.  And you still have the leaky cylinder to contend with.

Leaky cylinder?  I'm glad you asked.  Revolvers cannot be effectively silenced,
since a significant portion of the blast from the powder burning leaks out
at the interface between the cylinder and the barrel.  Semi-auto pistols
don't have this problem, but the slide itself is extremely noisy as it works
(let the slide on an empty pistol slam forward and you'll see what I mean).
I guarantee you that it CAN be heard more than 20 feet away.  Most silenced
weapons (both military and covert ops.) are single-shot pistols, firing
subsonic rounds.  To be effective, they must be employed at close range
(less than 10 meters), and must be acccurately aimed at an un-armored part
of the victim.  Sniper weapons (long range by definition) are never silenced,
as physical laws prevent the design of a weapon that is both silent AND
effective.

(Note: You can get the muzzle-energy/muzzle-velocity/slug mass data from
any Reloaders Handbook.  Most sporting goods store carry them.)

Later,

        "Look.  All of this talking is getting us nowhere!  I think we
         should try a more direct approach."

        "MY GOD!!  THAT'S A HAND GRENADE!!"

        "Right.  It's faster than Imperial arbitration, and it hurts less."

Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1274 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1274
From: Bart Massey <bart@fatal.tv.TEK.COM>
Subject: Undigestifier patch, comments (Re: (1272) undigestifier)
Date: Thu, 03 May 90 12:12:30 PDT

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but I assumed others would e-mail you.
My *strong* recommendation is to use mh-mail.  Its "burst" command
does exactly what you want -- try 'burst -inplace -verbose'.

Below is a patch to the posted undigestifier for older Berkeley
systems which don't have mkstemp() .  Note that this generates
a race condition, but since the result of mkstemp() wasn't being
checked anyhow...

Also note that the define for END_MARKER needs to be changed for
those of you receiving the bi-weekly digests -- otherwise the code
loops forever consuming disk...

					Bart Massey
					..tektronix!videovax.tv.tek.com!bart
					..tektronix!reed.bitnet!bart

- ------
*** tml_undigest.c.orig	Thu May  3 12:06:08 1990
- --- tml_undigest.c	Thu May  3 11:45:45 1990
***************
*** 4,9 ****
- --- 4,12 ----
   */
  
  #include <stdio.h>
+ #ifndef HAS_MKSTEMP
+ #include <sys/file.h>
+ #endif
  
  extern char *getenv();
  extern void get_line();
***************
*** 53,59 ****
- --- 56,67 ----
  
      /* open tmp file */
      strcpy(filename, TMP_FILENAME); 
+ #ifndef HAS_MKSTEMP
+     mktemp( filename );
+     fd = open( filename, O_CREAT | O_RDWR | O_EXCL, 0644 );
+ #else    
      fd = mkstemp(filename);
+ #endif    
      fp = fdopen(fd, "w");
  
      for (;;) {


-------- TML Message #1275 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1275
Date: Fri, 4 May 90 02:08:31 -0500
From: Mark Gellis <f3w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Subject: Lasers are silent


I have been following the discussion of silenced weapons with some interest.
Without wishing to rain on anyone's parade, I thought it might be worthwhile
to note that in the Traveller universe (and any game universe set more than
one hundred years in the future, if it's high tech), the question is moot.
Lasers are probably going to be VERY silent, compared to slug throwers, and
will not have to deal with the problems of reduced power.  If I were an
assassin, 3,000 years in the future, and I wanted to make a quiet attack, and
had to use a firearm to do it, I would use a laser.  I would suspect that
for any future game universe, a person needing to use a firearm in a stealthy
manner would rely on one of two methods:

   1) A laser, since it is quiet, and does not lose power by being quiet 
(I do not know if it is silent; I imagine there is a soft crackling noise
from the laser superheating the air as the beam passes through it, but this
cannot be any louder than the noise released by contemporary silencers).

  2) A low calibre pistol at point blank range.  (I understand this is how
many assassinations are done today.)  It takes real balls to do this, but
what you do is to walk up behind someone, put a .22 or .25 to the back of
their neck or head, pull the trigger, AND THEN JUST WALK AWAY AS IF YOU 
WERE JOE AVERAGE AND HAD NEVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG IN YOUR LIFE.  The guy
you have just snuffed will fall.  On a busy street, it will be several
seconds before anyone realizes that the guy has anything more wrong with
him than stumbling on a cracked sidewalk.  By this time, you're gone.

For the second method, I recommend soft-nosed, explosive, hollow-point, or
glaser safety rounds.  Against an unarmored target, they will do more damage.
If you're using a .22 or .25 (both 5-6 mm.) pistol rounds, you need all the
help you can get.  

By the way, while we are on the subject of assassinations, I would like to
mention that no one seems to be talking about the possible applications of
microrobotics in Traveller, for assassinations or other enterprises.  What
do you people think about wasp-sized robots, with VX nerve toxin in the
stingers, homing in on people based on their individual chemical signatures?
(Users would need a skill like Robotics or Remote Controls--I call it 
Remotes in my game--to use the robots.)  They fly about as fast as angry
hornets, hardly ever miss, and if the victim does not get medical attention
in about one minute, they are dead, dead, dead.

Any other interesting ideas?

Mark

-------- TML Message #1276 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1276
Date: Fri, 4 May 90 11:31:47 -0500
From: tey@sage.cc.purdue.edu
Subject: PBEM, Silencers, and other stuff...


Well, it's the end of the year here at dear old Pud U., and I've a few
things to say before I head out. First, and most unfortunately, I haven't
yet found out if my friend back home will have an account I can borrow
for this mailing list, so Dr. Morser may be effectively silenced until
next semester. If you just _have_ to get in contact with me about something,
I can be found via snail-mail at:
		3927 Elmwood Ave.
		Louisville, Ky.  40207

Secondly, my final action before going into low storage(or whatever), is
to ask if any of the Social or Generalist teams would care to work on
a somewhat more flexible translator program. I have the computer skill, but
no linguistics, and there's no telling what kind of stuff that probe's going to shak
going to shake loose.

Thirdly, I'm very sorry for the last-minute nature of this message(I'm leaving
this afternoon)...I really should have given more warning, but I've been 
in a real crush this week for finals. 

And finally, on the subject of silencers...Actually, there _is_ a good
reason for putting silencers on military-type sniper weapons; You see,
a silenced weapon doesn't necessarily mean the sound of the round going
through the sound barrier is quiet(as has already been explained by a
number of people), but it does mean that that the sound of the actual 
explosion of gunpowder is quiet(if a halfway decent silencer). Now while
that may not sound terribly useful to you, it means that there's no way
to tell(by sound, anyway) _where_ the shot was fired from...And let's
face it, as soon as some poor fool's head explodes for no apparent
reason, somebody's gonna guess that there's a sniper somewhere anyway...

				Hasta la bye-bye, guys
				Craig Waylan

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1277 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1277
Date:     Fri, 4 May 90 14:38:10 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Re: Sniper stuff

>From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
>Subject: (1273) Pillows as silencers
> ...
>Sniper weapons (long range by definition) are never silenced,
>as physical laws prevent the design of a weapon that is both silent AND
>effective.

If you're playing Traveller and you're that worried about being
both silent and effective, why don't you just use a UV or x-ray
laser rifle?  X-ray will probably go through walls as well. :-)

How did all this start anyway?
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1278 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1278
Date:     Fri, 4 May 90 21:57:07 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  Microrobotics

>By the way, while we are on the subject of assassinations, I would like to
>mention that no one seems to be talking about the possible applications of
>microrobotics in Traveller, for assassinations or other enterprises.  What
>do you people think about wasp-sized robots, with VX nerve toxin in the
>stingers, homing in on people based on their individual chemical signatures?

I thought of the same thing, only for spying/espionage--radio
controlled mobile bugs that look and act like your typical everyday
insect.  Add some high tech visual equipment (you math types can
have fun figuring out the maximum resolution through a small lens)
and you don't need to watch where it's going or waste weight to
store pictures.  To avoid detection, use an idea similar to what
we're using with space probes--have the bug transmit a very weak
signal and use gobs of receiving equipment to filter it out from
background noise.

That's as far as I got, never got to use it on players.  They would
have probably killed me if I did.
- --

John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1279 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1279
From: /dev/console <jscratch@eklektik.pgh.pa.us>
Subject: PBEM Party
Date: Sun, 6 May 90 23:33:41 EDT

Hey all,

[character on]

	Suddenly realizing, by the sudden shift in the ship's gravitic
compensators that a large number of the crew seem to have accumulated in one
spot, Ralf checks his e-mail and finds that there's some sort of party going
on... he takes (another) quick shower,  tosses several of his favorite
creations into his hand computer and heads up to join the fun.

(a short while later, at the party...)

	Ralf wanders around the party for a little while;  those yet
unfamiliar with him will note that he has sharp features, is rather thin, and
has a very dark complexion, (rather like a native of India from earth).  His
build and manner of moving suggest somebody from a low-grav world or space
habitat. The first thing he does on arriving is slide a small holocrystal (if
anybody gets close enough to get a look, the miniscule label says "drunk XVI")
into his odd-looking hand computer.

	Ralf finds a holodisplay and slides one of his creations - a full wrap-
around simulation of a theoretical approach to a ringworld construct, complete
with fractally generated (but vague and unspecific) glimpses of the inner
surface - into the dataport and sets for continuous display.  A few moments
later he jacks in Corporate Wars III, a computer simulation of the early 21st 
century "robber barons" (corporate execs) and the competition they enganged
in, including sending small scale mercenary assault teams after the
competition's corporate offices... 

	Apparently, Ralf is catching up quite fast on the rest of the
party-goers;  he's either downing a lot of alcohol, or he has an inordinately
low constitution, because he quickly (although nobody has seen him taking a
drink) reaches that state of inebriation that can be referred to as "loose" by
people who like to interpret such vague terms broadly... another phrase
(dredged up from a truly ancient copy of Bartlett's Idiom, Colloquialisms &
Slang) to describe it might be "bouncing off the walls."

[player on]

	What's been happening?  Aside from a little side-talk with a few of
the other players I have yet to hear from anybody in the game.  True, I
haven't exactly been the most active player, but I've sent three or four posts
in - and then in again... and then requests for confirmation of receipt, and
then...

	Rich, I can guess that you're busy enough with your own life, and that
the game must be generating one hell of a mail load for you to deal with, but
I've been waiting a month or two on some of these;  even a simple "yes, I got
your mail;  I'm REALLY busy and I'll get to you later." would provide a great
deal of reassurance.  Maybe you should set up a program to look through your
messages and send automatic short replies to each saying "It got here, I'll
get back to you." ?  

	Well, somebody let me know what's going on, eh?  (and yes, I WILL be
here for the summer, barring something odd, like lightning striking my
modem... or me :-)

	Ralf

"Okay -- now *do* something..."		Steven J. Owens
"Coming up!"				scratch@pittvms
"Good lord!  That's a grenade!"		scratch@unix.cis.pitt.edu
"What the hell did you expect me to do?	jscratch@eklektik.pgh.pa.us
 >toss< Shoot it out? >BADAM!<"	 
   Buck Godot - Zap Gun For Hire, Phil Phoglio



-------- TML Message #1280 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1280
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: silent sniping
Date: Mon, 7 May 90 9:17:21 BST

Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu> writes:
> 
> If you're playing Traveller and you're that worried about being
> both silent and effective, why don't you just use a UV or x-ray
> laser rifle?  X-ray will probably go through walls as well. :-)
> 
> How did all this start anyway?

It started when I expressed derision at DGP's statement that gauss weapons
are silent.  The consensus here seems to be, they're not.  There have been
a lot of messages from professional, informed and semi-informed sources (I
include myself among the third, so no offence intended).  To summarise:

1.  DGP are wrong.  Gauss weapons aren't silent.
2.  The only noise they do make is due to the needle going through the
    sound barrier.  They have no muzzle blast (or flash), and little or
    no mechanical sound.

So, detecting one is less difficult than detecting a CPR (Chemically
Propelled Round) weapon, but more difficult than detecting a CPR weapon
with a good silencer and flash eliminator.  Without any rules handy, here's
how I'd define the task:

Detect fired weapon: Routine, uncertain.  DM's: INT, Tactics

For a gauss weapon, or CPR weapon with flash eliminator, change that "Routine"
to "Difficult".  For a fully suppressed CPR weapon, make it "Formidable".  The
flash eliminator in the "Difficult" case should really have limited sound
suppression as well, while "fully suppressed" means the round is subsonic too.
Ah, for good old Traveller, where I would impose specific DM's against the
detector for sound suppression, subsonic round, flash eliminator, and probably
the TL of the suppressor.

As for x-ray lasers; how much damage would they do, if they didn't get lucky
and hit bone?

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1281 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1281
Date:     Mon, 7 May 90 20:53:36 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  PBEM: Richard's photo on a milk carton

Where is Richard you ask?

A clue to the mystery:

The last correspondence we (those of us who are hard at work
thinking up neat things for you to find on the ringworld) had
with him (a couple weeks ago) said he was having trouble getting
to a terminal.

Is there anyone else besides Alan and me working on the ringworld?
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1282 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1282
Subject: snipers & lasers
Date: Mon, 07 May 90 21:39:36 PDT
From: Leonard Erickson <leonard@tessi.UUCP>

Sorry folks, but no sniper in his right mind will use a laser!

Y'see, by the time a laser's power density (watts per cm^2) reaches
levels useful in a weapon, it has reached levels that will cause the 
air to ionize along the beam path. I can show you a lovely picture of
an IR laser beam in the air of a lab. Looks like something out of a 
special effects crew's nightmares.

No intelligent sniper is going to use a weapon that draws a line
connecting him with his target!!

You want quiet, hard to detect in weapon scans, lightweight, and
*deadly*? Just the thing here. A crossbow! They've been used as
recently as Vietnam. And with a composite material for the bow, it's
invisible to metal detectors and explosives sniffers. And it has a
decent range. A few hundred yards at least.

Thunk!

"Sir, they got the Colonel! Some sort of arrow... Arrgh!"

<crackle> "HQ? Hello? hello?" <crackle>

-------- TML Message #1283 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1283
Date:     Tuesday 8th May 1990 12:18:11 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR%cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>
Subject:  The extent of legal jurisdiction

 
Question:
 
How far off a planet's surface does its legal jurisdiction extend?
100 diameters?  The whole system?  Does the Imperium have guidelines
on this, or is it a question of what the world is capable of enforcing?
 
For example, if a particular world outlawed gambling, could an
enterprising individual get away with setting up a casino in orbit?
Or perhaps elsewhere in the system?
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:
 
"Have you hugged your luugiir today?"

-------- TML Message #1284 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1284
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: my blunder in silent sniping
Date: Tue, 8 May 90 9:54:13 BST

Adrian Hurt <adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk> writes:

> So, detecting one is less difficult than detecting a CPR (Chemically
> Propelled Round) weapon, but more difficult than detecting a CPR weapon
> with a good silencer and flash eliminator.

Before lots of you send corrections to the above, I'll correct myself.
Detecting a gauss weapon is more difficult than detecting a CPR weapon,
but less difficult than dtecting a CPR weapon with a good silencer and
flash eliminator.

That'll teach me to read the message properly before letting it out! :-!

 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1285 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1285
Date: Tue, 8 May 90 08:06:51 PDT
From: And now for something completely different! 08-May-1990 1054 <baranski@meridn.enet.dec.COM>
Subject: Grand Duke Norris

Hi guys...

I am currently playing a space conquest game that is running over the network,
one where each player plays a character/race type, you start out with a planet,
and proceed to develop it and explore and dominate the universe.  Meanwhile
there are ~40 other people doing the same thing.

The 'character' I had choosen is Duke Norris; however I am now finding out that
I have large gaps in my knowledge of Duke Norris, like I can't even remember
the rest of his name.  I use the term 'character' loosely because the game is
mainly strategy and tactics, not role playing.  The character playing is mainly
a name for the anonamous mailer alias, a style of writing in communicating with
other players and diplomacy, and pithy phrases to name your planets and ships.

Interesting, eh?

Basically what I'm looking for is any information on Duke Norris, what he did
during the Fifth Frontier War, and what he's been up to in the disintegration
of the empire.

Jim Baranski
DEC System Manager for Rent
Norwich CT.

-------- TML Message #1286 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1286
Subject: Test of TML
Date: Tue, 08 May 90 13:10:10 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


Hi folks! I've been mucking about with the Traveller Mailing List
software.  More specifically, I've physically moved the TML from its old
home (dadla.wr.tek.com, a VAX 11/780 running 4.3 Tahoe) to its new home
(metolius.wr.tek.com, the Sun Sparcstation 1 that sits at my desk).
This is an effort for me to abandon the old VAX for the speedy little
workstation, get all the archives on the local disk (instead of
overloading NFS whenever I build a new archive listing).

Note that you should now use metolius.wr.tek.com in place of
dadla.wr.tek.com for all TML mail.  Dadla should still work fine, but
all it does now is forward the requests on to metolius.  If you have
problems, please let me know at once, with as much detail as you can
provide (entire bounced messages if possible).

I would like the following TMLers to send me a reply ASAP, so I can
ensure that the software is working correctly:

	P.J.Netherwood@kingston.ac.uk (Paul Netherwood)
	bart@videovax.tv.tek.com (Bart Massey)
	bryanh@dadla.wr.tek.com (Bryan Hilterbrand)
	d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
	dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin)
	plb@violin.att.com (Peter L Berghold)
	richard@agora.hf.intel.com (Richard Johnson)
	wdr@wang.wang.com (Bill Ricker)

Thanks!

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

-------- TML Message #1287 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1287
From: zonker@ihlpf.att.COM
Date: Wed, 9 May 90 08:21 CDT
Subject: Laser Assasins

    I just read of a real good way to use a laser to assasinate someone in
Tom Clancy's latest "Clear and Present Danger".  In the book the Director
of the FBI has been assasinated in Columbia and the U.S. has decided to
retaliate.  The find out about a meeting of the drug lords by monitoring
cellular phone conversations.  Two CIA operatives use the laser to paint
a vehicle near the target and then smack the vehicle with a laser guided
weapon.  In the book they blew up a pick-up truck next to the conference
room with a special bomb (combustable casing so it would leave no bomb
casing fragments).  The bomb was dropped from a bomber off of a carrier
which had its IFF rigged to pretend to be a routine cargo hauler.  The bomb
didn't actually explode until it was inside the truck i.e. contact detonated
meaning it fell a fraction of a second past impact.  The net effect is that
survivors of the hit assumed it was a car bomb and started looking for
people who had access to the car and would use a car bomb, not for any
people who might have been able to see where the car was parked from
several kms away.
					Non Cuniculus Est,
					    Tom Harris


-------- TML Message #1288 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1288
Subject: Re: Test of TML
Date: Wed, 09 May 90 07:15:18 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>

Hi folks!

There were two problems with last night's digest.  One was that there
were two copies of each message.  The other is that the digest id
skipped from V4#5 to V4#7 without anyone ever receiving V4#6.

Both of these problems were my fault directly -- V4#6 didn't get sent
out at all, so I put everything back, fixed the bug in the digesting
program, and tried to resend the digest, expecting that all would be
well and that it would be numbered V4#6.  I had forgotten to clean up
the temporary message staging area (hence a second copy of all messages)
and reset the digest id (hence the jump from #5 to #7).

I do not expect these problems to recur, nor should the biweekly folks
see anything amiss.  Looks like the TML has pretty much successfully
moved.

Oh, one other administrivia point...  Somehow a stray message (was
listed in the archive index as number 1253, but actually was not stamped
with an Archive-Message-Number) got into the TML archives.  The
automatically-generated TML archive index (bundle 104) contains an extra
message that was not part of real TML traffic.  I am working with Dan
Corrin (who manages the TML FTP site) to fix his copy of the index, but
any of you who have a copy of the index I have sent since April 24th may
be in error.

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

-------- TML Message #1289 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1289
From: "Johnny B." <ccm007@deneb.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 May 90 22:57:21 -0700
Subject: Sniping...

[This came to traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com, looks like it was meant for
traveller@metolius.wr.tek.com.  Watch those automatic reply headers! -- James]

In some instances, I believe using a laser would be very beneficial. I'm
sure that X-Ray and IR lasers could do the job, if the targets aren't
prepared for it (ie using special vision enhancers like IR goggles). Also
I believe if you're in a patrol and it is set apon by a sniper, a good
commander will start ordering his men to start popping smoke grenades and
either rush the sniper or retrograde (in the military, we don't retreat).
Primarily, the smoke won't let the laser fire effectively on the targets,
plus it provides cover for the individuals. So, what's my answer to this ?

Lasers are cool, but people can prevent you from really hurting them. After
the commander pops a couple of smoke grenades, he doesn't really care if
anyone else sees the smoke because his position has already been compromised
and as Leonard Erickson stated in article 1282 :

" No intelligent sniper is going to use a weapon that draws a line
  connecting him with his target !! "

What I suggest doing is using some sort of shock weapon. In Viet Nam, Special
Force snipers (atleast some) would use .50 caliber rifles on enemy troops.
Now a .50 caliber will definatley blow you away, but what these S.F. guys
did was to use jet ammunition. These babies were armor piercing , explosive
rounds used against other planes. Now I suppose it's onething to see the
person crumple up and die from a laser wound, or maybe get knocked down or
head explode from a sniping rifle, but when your buddy gets hit by a .50
with AP EXP, there isn't much to send home. It'll demoralize the enemy !
Who wants to charge a sniper with a gun like that ?

Again, it's the choice of the sinper, using a silent weapon like a crossbow
is good, I wouldn't see much shock affect in it, plus if someone has
battle armor  * P-TING * goes the bolt but atleast you're not seen by
the enemy. Now .50 caliber, high shoch value, that will devastate a body.
If the target is using battle dress, instead of using a .50, graduate up
to a PGMP. It works for me. :-)

Zzzzap !

Wow, a laser got Chuck, good thing we wore these IR goggles, now we can
track where the blast came from. All units concentrate fire on that bush !

("Hehehehe" thinks the laser sniper "no one saw me at all !"

Ratatatata, kabooom, (and the sniper dies with a surprise on his face (8-(

Thunk !  *P-Ting*

Yow, another sniper hit us, but where is he ? Next time he fires we'll
be ready with our handy dandy motion detector, and then, we'll show 'em !

Thunk !  *P-Ting*

("Hehehehe" thinks the crossbow sniper "no one saw me at all, I wonder if I
hurt someone ? ")

Motion tracked and locked on sir.

Ratatatata, kabooom, (and the sniper dies with a surprise on his face (8-(

Blam, kaboom, fizzle-sizzle

Holy Cow, look what happened to the sarge. He's missing his upper torso !
Where did it come from ? I don't know but next time he fires we'll know
and we'll get him. Everyone looks at each other with a face of fear, who
will be next to explode like the sarge ?

("Hehehehe" thinks the .50 caliber sniper "I really don't care if they
know where I am, their demoralized, and that's what counts, or is it
bodies that count !")

Anyways, I'm sure there are many other ways for a sniper to be efficient,
please write about it, it'll be a learning experience.

John

-------- TML Message #1290 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1290
Date: Wed, 9 May 90 11:58:49 EDT
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: The extent of legal jurisdiction (1283)

Alan Huscroft <A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk> writes:

> How far off a planet's surface does its legal jurisdiction extend?
> 100 diameters?  The whole system?  Does the Imperium have guidelines
> on this, or is it a question of what the world is capable of enforcing?

It has been stated that the starport (downport) is essentialy foreign soil, 
and the local laws do not apply there. Therefore the highport would also
be under the same circumstances. And so (I would presume) be any ship at
the port or nearby.

The question arises, how many of the local laws are the port authorities
going to implement as "courtesies" to the locals. ie. They may pass
local regulations prohibiting gambling to appease the locals.

This is irrespective of tech level. If the planet is pre-stellar+, then
the local navy may have its own ideas about what is legal. I don't think
that the number of planetary diameters has anything to do with it. The
locals would claim their entire solar system, (and if you use WBH will
have colonies and spaceports (not starports) scattered all over the
system). Thus the navy may only see designated imperial property (ie.
starports) as being immune to local laws.

Another consideration is alienating merchants. Should said local navy
start harrassing merchants, boarding and checking for gambling, the
merchants may stop coming, and that could play havoc with their
economy.

In summary: It is a political situation and depending on the particular
law, the conviction of the locals, personalities (and orders) of the port 
authorities, and the opinon of merchant lines, a local law may be limited
to the planet, or extend throughout the system. 

Suprise your players, every world should be an unique experience, the
charts for the planet would describe all unusual legal conditions, if the
players bother to read the dozens of pages in detail. My players
rember worlds by their customs and laws, three nights in jail that a
player spent for GASP! not wearing a hat in public still sticks in their
mind.

Dan Corrin, System Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
TML FTP site coordinator:  dan@engrg.uwo.ca   ...!watmath!julian!engrg!dan



-------- TML Message #1291 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1291
Date: Tue, 8 May 90 14:56:53 EST
From: Paul Dale <grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au>
Subject: A new improved Heavy Fighter

[Acck! This mail was sent to traveller@dadla.LA.tek.com.  The mailing
list moved to traveller@dadla.WR.tek.com about 6 months ago, and just
yesterday moved to traveller@METOLIUS.WR.tek.com (letters capitalized
for emphasis), although the dadla route will still work.  The la.tek.com
domain has been defunct for months and my sysadmin promises it will go
away at any time.  In order to prevent future confusion or rubber email,
please check that you are using the latest address for mailing to the
TML and to me -- James.  P.S.  Paul: thanks for the starship design, we
need all of these difficult little things we can get].

hiya,

Just a design I threw together.  An all round nice little ship.

Features include 6G, Agility-6 and factor 75 armor (which was the TL15 limit
until Fighting Ships came along).  It is immune to just about everything short
of a spinal mount.  As for weapons, a triple beam laser turret is all it's
got.

I can't wait until a poor scout ship actually has to fight this monster in
real combat!!

CraftID:	Attack Fighter, Type FA, TL=15, MCr=421.319
Hull:		90/225, Disp=100, Config=1AF, Armor=75G
		Unloaded=7770.313, Loaded=7793.62174
Power:		40/80, Fusion=10800, Duration=2.5/7.7
		(without agility or weapons Duration=49.7/149)
Loco:		16/32, Manmeuver=6, Top=3780, Cruise=2835, NOE=190
		Vacuum Top=4200, Vacuum Cruise=3150, Agility=6
Commo:		Radio=System
Sensors:	PassiveEMS=Interstellar, ActiveEMD=FarOrbit,
		Densitometer=HighPen/1000m, neutrino=10kw, Neural=VeryLong
		ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine,
		PasObjScan=Routine, PasObjScan=Routine,
		PasEngScan=Simple,  PasEndPin=Routine
Off:		BeamLaser=x04
		Batt     =001
		Bear     =001
Def:		DefDM=+17
Control:	Computer=9x3
		Panel=Holodynamic Linkedx2
		Special=HeadsUpx2
		Environ=basic environ, basic life support, extended life
			support, grav plates, inertial compensation
Accom:		crew=2, StateRooms=1
Other:		Cargo=0, Fuel=332.982kL,
		ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Faint

							Pauli
seeya
SNIF

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Qld              | JANET:           grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4067         | EAN:                          grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!batserver.cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e7g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au

-------- TML Message #1292 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1292
From: Matt Goldman <goldman@ferris.cray.COM>
Subject: So the group wants to play Star Trek and not Traveller...
Date: Wed, 9 May 90 11:00:49 CDT


Hello all.  I posted the following to a news group.  There 
is additional material at the end...

>ain14998@merrimack.edu writes:
>	How do I convince a group that loves to play role-playing 
>games to try something new?
>	Can anyone offer advice on how to persuade players to try 
>something new and different?

Hello all.  I've had an interesting idea floating around in my head for a
while that I'd like to share with you.

I have a group that really wants to play Star Trek, the RPG.  Sigh, I
like Traveller better.  They are not interested in anything else, except
for D&D.  I'm rather burned out on D&D right not so we are going to
play Traveller, err, Star Trek.  The Game is going to go sort of like
this...

Phase I Exploration:
	The players must locate a sutable class M planet for a 
	new colony.  During this phase they will encounter a
	number of strange items.  Marker beacons from unknown
	cultures, strange energy readings, and ships which vanish
	with a release of strange energy.  They are encountering
	IISS (Imperial Interstellar Scout Service) scouts.  The
	scouts are also noticing them...

Phase II Relocation:
	The players must supervise the relocation of the
	colonists to the new colony.  Focus in the interaction
	between the Starfleet crew and the colonists.  The
	colonists should be a pain to work with.  Some strange
	energy readings should be noted in the system as well as
	coded radio transmissions.  As the colony becomes
	settled, the player's starship will frequently be called
	away by Starfleet for some 'secret' missions.  The
	colonists will be unhappy about the starship leaving the
	system.  They will complain loudly about the lack of
	protection.  During one of the first few times that the
	player's ship is not in the system, a few of the
	colonists will vanish with out a trace.  In reality, the
	missing colonists have been kidnapped by IISS agents who
	want to find out about about a new culture.  The last
	time that the players leave the colony things happen.
	The players will return just in time for Phase III...

Phase III Contact:
	The players return to find the colony a smoking ruin.  A
	landing party (all of the players must be in the landing 
	party) is sent down.  The colony has been stripped of all
	computer and communications equipment.  Quite a few
	colonists are dead, they appear to have been killed in
	the defense of the colony.  They were killed with energy
	weapons *and* projectal weapons.  All of the remaining
	colonists are missing.  Well, all but one.  S/he managed
	to hide when the aliens attacked.  So s/he claims.  The
	surviving 'colonists' is in reality a Zhodani spy (enemy
	of the Imperium.)  The spy is on the planet for reasons
	of his/her own.  While the players are exploring the
	ruins, their ship will be attacked and destroyed.  The
	players will shortly afterwards be captured.

Phase IV Capture:
	The landing party is captured by humanoids is combat
	armor.  If the players resist an NPC will be killed.  The
	party will be loaded onto a shuttle and transported to a
	ship in orbit.  The ship is *big*, the players will be
	able to estimate that it is about 3 km in length.  It is
	bristling with weapon turrets.  It has a logo painted on
	one side that none of the player's reconize.  The party
	will be locked into a cargo bay.  Food will be available
	in the cargo bay.  The players will be ignored for two
	months.  Every so often there will be sounds of battle
	during this time.  After the two months have passed, the
	players will be transfered to another ship's cargo bay.  
	The players will be questioned indivually at this time.
	They will have chances to escape.  If they do not manage
	to escape, eventually the ship they are in will be
	attacked (there is a war on you know...) and disabled.
	When the players escape Phase V starts.

Phase V The Voyage Home:
	Questions the players will need to find the answers to.
	1) How operational is this ship?
	2) How can we repair this ship?
	3) Where are we?
	4) What information can we gather?
	5) Where is home?
	They may come up with other questions.  The answer to
	number 5 may not be able to be determined.  Allow them to
	explore the Traveller universe.

Overview:
	Outlaws with lots of technical knowledge and a stolen
	starship on the run from an EVIL, RUTHLESS galactic empire.
	Sounds like "Blake's 7" to me...

Comments, suggestions?  E-mail me or Call by phone.  If you use
the idea, let me know how it went...
- -----
Now for why the adventure will bu such fun to run...
	In Traveller starships move from star to star.  They 
ignore the space between stars.  A sphere of influence consists 
of many points which are controled.  Only the points are 
important.  How many adventures have you seen where the Bad 
Guys (tm) have set up a base at a specific jump point where there 
is not a star?
	In Star Trek Areas are controled.  A few major bases are
occupied; however, for the most part space lanes are patroled,
not each star.
	This leads to some interesting possibilities.
	Two empires overlapping and exploring the same space while 
not knowing that the other is there.
	Some of you Trek people might wonder how the Federation 
starship was suprised.  My answer, suprise and a spinal mounted 
meson gun owned by a shoot first, shoot again, then ask questions 
later culture.
	In my Traveller universe, the Imperium is not controled
by nice people.  Don't attract their attention and you are okay.
They are not interested in anything that is small.  If you are
interested in overthrowing a local planetary government, be sure
to purchase the proper permits. :-)
- -- 
Matthew Goldman 	(612) 936-9675 goldman@ferris.cray.com

"It's real handy, havin' an Elder God in the band, eh?"

		"When the benchmarks were released, IBM went 
		on walkabout and hasn't been sighted since."

-------- TML Message #1293 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1293
Date: Wed, 9 May 90 15:24:20 CDT
From: Jim Cunningham <jcunning@gsliss.lis.uiuc.edu>
Subject: out of touch



Due to restriced operating hours during intersession, it's likely that
I may not be able to get to my e-mail for days or perhaps a couple of weeks
at at time unitl mid-June. Do not be alarmed if I do not reply to any
communications until then. 

		Later, travelling dudes.

			Jim Cunningham
Traveller Relic



-------- TML Message #1294 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1294
Date: Wed, 9 May 90 17:52 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: useless trivia


Two things:

1. I'm going to put together an article for Travellers' Digest (something
to do when I go back to Tennessee in three weeks, ugh) on insult, invective,
and humor among the major races in the MegaTraveller universe. The only data
on these areas is a brief article in JTAS#9 on what to call a Zhodani or a
Vargr ("gral"? Puh-LEASE!) when you want to be nasty, and a sidesplittingly
funny comic called "Our Friends the Aliens" from JTAS 14 or so... its caption
reads something like, "Many people think the Hivers have no such things as 
jokes, since they can't talk. Nothing could be further from the truth, as this
hilarious example demonstrates...." The cartoon that follows depicts a Hiver
gesturing to another, followed by the other Hiver reacting. No dialog or 
translations provided. |->

2. I'm quitting TML as of today, for a period of about three weeks. I'm getting
married on Sunday, May 20, and I'll be back from my honeymoon (and back in Oak
Ridge, alas) soon after Labor Day. I'll see you all then, all right?

Take care,

metlay

-------- TML Message #1295 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1295
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Invasion: Earth
Date: Thu, 10 May 90 10:20:02 MET DST

I recently got hold of the old GDW game 'Invasion: Earth' (on an auction
on GothCon) and after playing it once I've got a couple of questions:

1. Is there any way for the imperium to win?  When I played it the solomani
   player zapped everything that landed with his 4 500-factor corps (working
   in 2 groups because of stacking limits)

2. There is a solomani unit (infantry division, old equippment) that is called
   'Ihatei' Is that what it appears to be (ie. Aslans) ?
   (there is also an imperial merc unit that sounds vargr)

3. Any ohter interesting information?

- -bertil-
- -- 
Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se 
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      
"I say cut his air!" "I say cut his heat!" "I say raise his rent!" "Hey, we're 
trying to get rid of an Alien, not evict a tenant!" Alien - American MAD version

-------- TML Message #1296 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1296
From: "Johnny B." <ccm007@deneb.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 May 90 09:42:37 -0700
Subject: 2300 A.D. Starship. Type:  Launch

[This came to traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com, looks like it was
meant for traveller@metolius.wr.tek.com.  Watch those automatic reply
headers! -- James]

Here's a launch I made up. Please disregard all the decimal
point thingys calculated to the thousandth or so ( I was
being meticulous ). Please send any erata to me, because I'm
still learnin'. Thanks and enjoy.

OLD COMMERCIAL LAUNCH

Power Plant:
Old Commercial Fuel Cell (0.01 MW):   0.3 m3     0.3 Tons     0.05 MLv

Fuel:
Fuel (4222.2222 hours):   31.35 m3     19 Tons

Thrusters:
Power Plant Modification:    0.03 m3     0.03 Tons     0.01 MLv

Stutterwarp:
Old Commercial Drive (0.01 Power):    3 m3     3 Tons     0.06 MLv

Crew and Workstations:
Pilot:    3 m3      2 Tons     2 m2
Copilot:    3 m3     2 Tons     2 m2
Passengers (6):    18 m3     12 Tons     12 m2

Sensors:
Navigation Radar:    5 m3     1 Ton     0.02 MLv     20 m2
Passive Sensors (Range=0, CS=10):    10 m3     1 Ton      0.1 MLv     30 m2

Hull:
Dimensions:     Diameter= 3 m          Length= 26.172146 m
                       Volume= 185 m3          MAT= 2
                       Metal Hull:  8 m3     64 Tons     0.008 MLv

Streamlining and Thruster Fuel:
Fully Streamlined Vessel:     18 m3     0.0008 MLv

Fuel Requirements for Lift-Off and Reentry:   18.099583 Tons
Note: This amount of fuel is equivalent to 4022.1296 hours of flight. Using this amount of fuel leaves 200.09267 hours of flight.

Orbit Time:     0.12 minute to obtain maximum orbit, 0.4 minutes are spent in atmosphere while 0.8 minutes are spent in low orbit.
Note: These times as well as fuel requirements are based on Earth-like gravities (Earth=1). Multiply the figures by the appropriate gravity for non Earth-like planets.

Cargo:
Cargo Capacity:     84.4965 m3
Bracings:     0.8535 m3     4.2675 Tons

Mass:

Vessel at 100% Fuel:     108.5975 Tons
Vessel at  75% Fuel:      103.8475 Tons
Vessel at  50% Fuel:        99.0975 Tons
Vessel at  25% Fuel:        94.3475 Tons

Drive Efficiency:

Vessel at 108.5975 Tons:          0.654779
Vessel at 103.8475 Tons:          0.6646137
Vessel at 99.0975 Tons:            0.6750674
Vessel at 94.3475 Tons             0.6862113

Comfort:
Comfort Rating: 0

Fire Statistics:
No weapons carried
Fire Rating: 0

Expenses:
Total Vessel Cost:  248,800 Livres  (or 0.2488 MLv)

Reflected Signatures:
Radial Viewed Area:     7.0685835 m2
Lateral Viewed Area:    78.516438 m2
RVA times signature multiplier:     7.0685835
LVA times signature multiplier:     78.516438

Fixture Points:     Passive Sensors= 10

Total Reflection:    RVA=    17.0685835
Total Reflection:    LVA=     88.516438
Reflected Signature:     RVA=     2
Reflected Signature:     LVA=     4

Radiated Signature:     
Old Commercial Power Plant (0.01 MW):    1 

Hull Hit Value:
Minor Breach:    3
Major Breach:    2
Damage Capacity:    4

Power Plant Hit Capacity:
Power Plant Disabled:     1
Damage Capacity:            1

Target Profile:
Radial:     -3
Lateral:   -2

Firing Aspects:
No weapons carried

Armor Value:
No armor carried
AV:   0



AEROTECH Vector Class Launch.
Warp Efficiency: 0.654779, Power Plant: 0.01 MW Fuel Cell, Fuel: 19 Tons, sufficient for 4222.2222 hours of operation, Range: NA, Mass: 108.5975 Tons, Cargo Capacity: 84.4965 m3, Comfort: 0, Total Life Support: 8, Price: 248,800 Livres.

Hoped you liked it.

John

-------- TML Message #1297 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1297
From: plb@violin.att.COM
Subject: I'm SOOO confused
Date: Thu, 10 May 90 13:00:02 EDT

Operating System: HP-UX A.B7.00 U
Organization: AT&T-BL, Red Hill System Administration Group (HRSAG)
Location: HR 1F138
Phone: (201) 615-4419
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL16]

I know, I know, I know.... "here he goes again!"

I was once again trying to design a ship under the new MT design
rules.  This time, (I thought) something simple.  A 20T (OT)
fighter.

Under High Guard, this ship had a power plant with a rating of 12
and needed 12% of the ship's volume for fuel, or 2.4T.  This
roughly equates to 32.4 KL under the MT rules.  The fighter I am
designing is to have a 6G manueverability rating.  When I tried to
calculate the size power plant to accomplish this deed I came up
with the following figures:



          Item                Units           Volume            Wt
       Manuever 6              3.4             45.9             119
       Power Plant            80                7.2             160


I arrived at the power plant figure by determining that the
manuever drive would need 238 power units as input power for their
survival.  I doubled that figure in the interest of maintaining
excess power for agility.  SO far so good, but now comes the fuel 
calculations:

80 power plant units use 0.009 KL of fuel per hour.  I calculate a
30 day supply as 30 X 24 X 0.009 X 80 as 518.4 KL.  Not much, but
the whole vessel only has a volume of 270KL!  

What am I doing wrong?   What kinds of guidelines do other folks
use in this instance?

Boy I miss High Guard!


- -- 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Peter L. Berghold            |  AT&T, HRSAG, +1 (201) 615-4419        |
|INTERNET: plb@violin.att.com |  UUCP: {uunet!allegra|att}!violin!plb  |
|FAX: 1(201) 706-2004         |                                        |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------- TML Message #1298 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1298
Subject: Laser sniping attacks
Date: Fri, 11 May 90 12:08:03 +0100
From: Jim Cheetham <is_a063%ux.kingston.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>


	Just a quick thought -
	A visible laser, operating on one frequency (which is, I
	understand, what they normally do), can have it's effect
	diminished by wearing clothes/armour that reflect that
	frequency light (i.e. a green-light laser's effect will
	be much less on green objects, because colour is, after
	all, a radiating of light of a specific frequency ...)
	So how about a universal laser armour that reflects low-
	power lasers ? It could be any colour on the outside (to
	prevent human detection) but a "super-white" colour underneath.
		-- I seem to remember coloured armour in the
		   remarkably light-hearted Paranoia game ...
	The right sort of "super-white" would be effective against
	all lasers near the visible spectrum, but whould have to be
	made of lead to stop X-ray lasers ...

	PS - All London, England, phone numbers have been subject to
	a badly thought out, heavy-handed alteration by British Telecom.
	Central London numbers now begin with 071 instead of 01, and
	outer London numbers are 081 instead of 01. So if you're dialling
	over here, be prepared for the changes !
	This has also introduced a certain amount of snobbery and
	is predicted to alter some house prices - the yuppier members
	of society couldn't live with an 081 number in case their
	friends thought that they "lived out in the provinces".

	What about area snobbery on some worlds for a strange custom?
	Like if the players take some local accomodation, some people
	will refuse to talk to them when they discover which section
	of town they're living in ... ?

	Just another couple of thoughts to keep the discussions going !
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     _____               (JANET) jcheetham@uk.ac.kingston
    (__ __) O  ______    (local) is_a063@ux.king
   (____)  (_)(_)()(_)   (voice) (+44) 81 549 1366 x2690
   Jim Cheetham, ISD Kingston Polytechnic.
   "... nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1299 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1299
Date: Fri, 11 May 90 14:36:52 EDT
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: (1297) I'm SOOO confused

<from Peter Berghold>
> I was once again trying to design a ship under the new MT design
> rules.  This time, (I thought) something simple.  A 20T (OT)
> fighter.
> 
> Under High Guard, this ship had a power plant with a rating of 12
> and needed 12% of the ship's volume for fuel, or 2.4T.  This
> roughly equates to 32.4 KL under the MT rules.  The fighter I am
> designing is to have a 6G manueverability rating.  When I tried to
> calculate the size power plant to accomplish this deed I came up
> with the following figures:
> 
>           Item                Units           Volume            Wt
>        Manuever 6              3.4             45.9             119
>        Power Plant            80                7.2             160

I don't know where you got this figure ------------^ it should be 80.

> 
> I arrived at the power plant figure by determining that the
> manuever drive would need 238 power units as input power for their
> survival.  I doubled that figure in the interest of maintaining
> excess power for agility.  SO far so good, but now comes the fuel 
> calculations:
> 
> 80 power plant units use 0.009 KL of fuel per hour.  I calculate a
> 30 day supply as 30 X 24 X 0.009 X 80 as 518.4 KL.  Not much, but
> the whole vessel only has a volume of 270KL!  
> 
> What am I doing wrong?   What kinds of guidelines do other folks
> use in this instance?
> 

What are you doing wrong? First you are not reading the power plant
chart correctly, and second, you are not designing the ship
for its intended use. 

I'll address the second one first. The fighter, without staterooms
(as the OT fighters, and any 20T fighter would be designed), cannot
support a pliot for 24 hours, never mind 30 days. Only use the fuel
storage that is required. I typically use 3-10 days for fighters.
(actually I typically put small staterooms in fighters (50T+) and
have them stay on station for several weeks).

The first part: I deduce from your design that the fighter is Tech 15
(this is the only TL case in high guard where the power plant rating, 
and PP volume are  identical).
You indicate you want 2x238 for the Power plant (to include agility),
noting at this point a laser (250Mw) cannot be installed - Missiles only.
(This doubling is a good starting estimate, but will have to be
revised after the ship is sketched out, as agility is a function of mass).

So 476 Mw of power, do not require 80Kl (units) of TL 15 power plant. You
forgot to account for scale efficiencies. Any PP over 14Kl, gets triple 
effieincy. ie. 18 Mw per "unit" of power plant. Thus you plant can be 
26.44Kl (round to 27, which gives 10Mw to power life support, computers, etc.)

(This is the problem with A-M power plants, as they don't get scale
efficiency, fusion power plants are quite often better at the higher techs)

Thus your fuel for 30days is .009*27*24*30= 175Kl within your volume
requirements, if you only go for 10 days this becomes just 59 Kl.

					-Dan Corrin
					
P.S. I am still	working on a C starship design package. (With Paul Dale, and
Jo Jaquinta) We are (essentailly) out of the design phase, and have
started coding.

-------- TML Message #1300 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1300
Date: Fri, 11 May 90 17:21:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (1297) I'm SOOO confused

Peter L. Berghold writes:
[Describes building a 20T Fighter]
>          Item                Units           Volume            Wt
>       Manuever 6              3.4             45.9             119
>       Power Plant            80                7.2             160
>I arrived at the power plant figure by determining that the
>manuever drive would need 238 power units as input power for their
>survival.  I doubled that figure in the interest of maintaining
>excess power for agility.  SO far so good, but now comes the fuel 
[Fuel calculations]
>What am I doing wrong?   What kinds of guidelines do other folks
>use in this instance?

	Trying again - very brave :-)  Two problems with the design.
First - scale efficiency (from the same page as the powerplants, near
the bottom) will triple the output of any powerplant 14 kl or larger, giving
a total output of 18 Mw per kl of powerplant (assuming TL15).  Another
way of looking at it is that any TL15 power plant providing more than
252 Mw of power will have a size of Output/18.  This mistake has been
made by so many people (including whoever designed the fighter in the
Rebellion Sourcebook!) that I think they should either reformat the table
of powerplants or at least put asterisks by the numbers in the "Power Out"
column to refer people to the scale efficiency table.  Note that this does
not increase fuel usage, so this will reduce the fuel used in your fighter
by 2/3, as well as freeing up space formerly used by the plant.
	Second - the "30-day fuel supply" is a suggestion, not a
requirement, and I believe was meant to primarily apply to starships.
The fighter in the Rebellion book had a 5 day supply, and the one in
Fighting Ships even less.  It is also possible to run a powerplant at less
than full capacity, saving fuel.  Thus you could build a ship that has a
30-day supply of fuel for manuvering and life support, but only 3 days
for the weapons and agility. (I don't think many ships will fight more
than 3 full days before refuelling - especially not a fighter with no jump
drive.)

>Boy I miss High Guard!
Me too. :-)
	I hope this helps. Good luck.

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

-------- TML Message #1301 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1301
From: "Johnny B." <ccm007@deneb.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Fri, 11 May 90 16:01:18 -0700
Subject: 2300 A.D. Starships (3 New Designs)


Here is a list of 3 new starships;

the Patriot Class Frigate
the Tachyon Class Interceptor
the Wenton Class Drop-Boarding Ship

Please send or post any erata or improvements.
Thanks.

John Banagan

PATRIOT CLASS FRIGATE


Power Plant:
2 New military MHD Turbines (3 MW):     60 m3     60 Tons     2 MLv
New Military MHD Turbine (5 MW):     50 m3     50 Tons     1.2 MLv
Power Plant Redundancy Factor 1.2:     22 m3     

Fuel:
Fuel (enough for 2 weeks of operation):     3630 m3     2200 Tons
Note: A 3 MW MHD Turbine uses 300 Tons per week, 
42.86 Tons a day, 1.786 Tons an  hour, and 0.029 Tons a minute.
 A 5 MW MHD Turbine uses 500 Tons a week, 71.43 Tons a day, 
2.976 Tons an hour, 0.0496 Tons a minute. When all Engines are 
on full (11 MW), they use 1100 Tons a week, 15701 Tons a day, 
6.548 Tons an hour, and 0.109 Tons a minute.

Thrusters:
Power Plant Modification:     13.2 m3     11 Tons     0.64 MLv

Stutterwarp:
New Military Drive (10 Power):     29 m3     34 Tons     36.2 MLv

Crew and Workstations:
Bridge-(10)
Captain:     8 m3     5 Tons
Navigation:     8 m3     5 Tons
Communications:     8 m3     5 Tons
Engineering (Helm):     8 m3     5Tons
Computer:     8 m3     5 Tons
Tactical Action Center-(5)
Passive Sensor:     8 m3     5 Tons
Active Sensor:     8 m3     5 Tons
2 Fire Control Stations:     16 m3     10 Tons
Remote Pilot Station:     8 m3     5 Tons
Engineering-(4)
Engineering (Power Plant):     16 m3     10 Tons
Ship's Troops-(5)
Station:     8 m3     5 Tons
Medical-(1)
Station:     8 m3     5 Tons
Total Crew and Workstations:     112 m3     70 Tons     25 Crew Members

Accomodations:
30 Staterooms (25m3 in volume, comfort= -2):     750 m3    85 Tons
Hamster Cage Spin Habitat (Comfort= +2):     7.5 m3     7.5 Tons    
Life Support for Personnel:    630 Man Days.     3.15 m3     0.63 Tons
Note: The Life Support is equivalent for 30 people for 3 weeks each person.

Sensors:     
Navigation Radar:     5 m3     1 Ton     0.02 MLv     20 m2
Deep System Scanner:     15 m3     20 Tons     0.1 MLv     30 m2
Gravitational Scanner:     20 m3     40 Tons     0.13 MLv     50 m2
Advanced Cartographic Sensors:     10 m3     10 Tons     0.06 MLv     10 m2
Advanced Life Sensors:     15 m3     15 Tons     0.8 MLv     30 m2
Active Sensors (Range= 13, CS=0, MW= 4):     10 m3     1 Ton     1.4 MLv     10 m2
Passive Sensors (Range= 5, CS=0):     10 m3     1 Ton     0.8 MLv     30 m2

Weapons:
2 Masked Turrets (Double Mounted):     12 m3     12 Tons     0.07 MLv    60 m2
4 Hyde Dynamic EA 122 Lasers (Double Mounted, MW= 4):     12 m3     12 Tons     0.42 MLv
4 Unified Target Engagement Systems (UTES):     8 m3     8 Tons     0.8 MLv

American SIM-14 Missle Bay (5-Missle Bay):     70 m3     70 Tons     4.2 MLv     2 m2

Hull Masking:
Advanced Hull Masking (11 MW Power Plant):     33 m3     66 Tons      0.11 MLv     132 m2

Hull:
Dimensions:          Diameter= 9 m          Length= 86.44 m
                              Volume= 5499.0752 m3     Area=     1119.9464 m2     MAT= 16

Advanced Synthetic Hull:     48 m3     96 Tons     3.96 MLv     

Streamlining and Thruster Fuel:
Fully Streamlined Hull:     549.90752 m3     0.396 MLv
Fuel To Orbit: 690.27167 Tons of Fuel to achieve planetary orbit.
Orbit Time: 132 minutes. (43.99 minutes spent in atmosphere, 
the rest is in low orbit.)
Note: The fuel requirements and the time to achieve orbit are 
based on Earth-like gravities. On planets where gravities are 
different, multiply the factors by the requirements to gain correct 
measures. Earth has a gravity factor of 1.  Using the take-off mode 
drains 4.39 days of operation.

Cargo:
Cargo Capacity:     64.664503 m3
Bracings:     0.65371768 m3     3.265884 Tons (add to Mass later)

Mass:

1) Vessel with 100% Fuel and all missles:     4145.7118 Tons
2) Vessel with 100% Fuel and no missles:     4075.7118 Tons
3) Vessel with 75% Fuel and no missles:     3595.7118 Tons
4) Vessel with 50% Fuel and no missles:     3045.7118 Tons
5) Vessel with 25% Fuel and no missles:     2495.7118 Tons

Drive Efficiency:
Drive at Full Power (10 MW) Escape Mode-
1) as above:     2.3469563
2) as above:     2.3603164
3) as above:     2.4609895
4) as above:     2.6010086
5) as above:     2.779542

Drive at Full Power (3MW) Engage Mode-
1) as above:     1.5711299
2) as above:     1.5800736
3) as above:     1.6474674
4) as above:     1.7412008
5) as above:     1.8607171

Fire Statistics:
Fire Rating=  +4     (+2 Computer, +1 Dual Mount, +1 Integral)

Comfort:
Comfort Rating=  0

Expenses:
Total Vessel Cost=     52,550,000 Livres.  (or 52.55 MLv)

Reflected Signatures:
Radial Viewed Area:     63.617251 m2
Lateral Viewed Area:     777.96 m2
RVA with synthetics:     6.3617251
LVA with synthetics:     77.96

Fixture Points:     Masked Turrets (2)=     8
                            Active Sensor=     0
                            UTES=     8
                            Passive Sensor=     0
                            Deep System Scanner=     25  (when in use)
                            Cartographic Sensors=     25  (when in use)
                            Life Sensors=     25  (when in use)

Reflected Signatures-
Radial:     2, 3 with 1 sensor, 4 with 2 or 3 sensors.
Lateral:     4, 4 with 1 sensor, 5 with 2 or 3 sensors.

Radiated Signature:     2    (5 without masking)

Hull Hit Value:
Minor:     4
Major:     8
Destroyed:     16

Power Plant Hit Capacity:
Disabled:     6
Destroyed:     26
Note: Each 3 MW  Power Plant takes 2 hits to be disabled, 6 to 
be destroyed. The 5 MW engine needs 2 hits to be disabled and 
10 to be destroyed.

Target Profile:
Radial=  -2
Lateral= +1

Weapon Aspects:
Turret Number 1-
Port Starboard
Port Stern Quarter
Stern
Port Bow Quarter
Turret Number 2-
Starboard Bow Quarter
Starboard Broadside
Starboard Stern Quarter
Stern

Armor Value:
AV=  1


PATRIOT CLASS FRIGATE 

Warp Efficiency: 2.3469563, Power Plant: (2) 3 MW MHD 
Turbines and 5 MW MHD Turbine, Fuel: 2200 Tons, sufficient
 for 2 weeks of operations, Range: 7.7 Mass:4142.4459 Tons, 
Cargo Capacity: 64.664503 m3, Comfort: 0, Total Life 
Support: 30, Price: 52,550,000 Livres.
 

Ship Name: Patriot
Ship Type: Frigate
Owning Nation or World: North America
Ship Purpose: The Patriot was designed as a close escort to 
larger vessels. It has also seen service as a patroler and small 
time skirmisher. Its ability to land on and off worlds has greatly 
increased its popularity as a colonial parameter defense vessel. 
It has moderate speed and moderate armament, consiting of 2 
dual laser turrets and a remote missle bay. It's one drawback is 
its lightly armored hull.
Ship Date: August 15, 2295
Ship Constuction: Davis, California. Unitd States. Earth.
Ship Designer: Hugh L Beaumen


Ship Statistics:

Movement: 5
Screens: 0
Radiated Signature: 2 (5 without masking)
Radial Reflected: 2
Lateral Reflected: 4
Targeting Computer: +2
Radial Profile: -2
Lateral Profile: +1
Armor: 1

Hull Hits:
Minor: 0000
Major: 0000
Destroyed: 00000 000

Power Plant Hits:
Disabled: 00000 0
Destroyed: 00000 00000 00000 00000

Surface Fixture Hits:
Turret 1: x1 +2 00 PS-PSQ-S-PBQ
Turret 2: x1 +2 00 SBQ-SBS-SSQ-S
Active Sensors: (13) 00000 0
Passive Sensors: (5) 00000 0

Critical Hits:
Computer: 00000 00 Primary
Life Support: 00000 00
Drive: 00000 00
Missle Bay: 00000 00
Continuous: 00000 00
Active Operator: 0
Passive Operator: 0
Gunner 1: 0
Gunner 2: 0
Remote Pilot: 0
Captain: 0
Navigation: 0
Communication: 0
Engineer: 0
Computer: 0 

Damage Control:
Party: 1

Ordnance:
5 American SIM-14 Missles in bay.

Crew:
Comfort: 0
Quality: ?


TACHYON CLASS CLOSE SYSTEM INTERCEPTOR

Power Plant:
4 New Military MHD Turbines (5 MW):     200 m3     200 Tons     4.8 MLv
New Military MHD Turbine (10 MW):     100 m3     100 Tons     2.4 MLv
Power Plant Redundancy Factor  (1.4):     120 m3          

Fuel:
Fuel (24 Hours):     1425.6 m3     864 Tons
Note: 18 Tons of fuel used every hour and 0.3 Tons of fuel every minute.

Thrusters:
Power Plant Modification:     42 m3     42 Tons     1.44 MLv

Stutterwarp:
New Military Drive (25 Power):     40 m3     47 Tons     50 MLv

Crew and Workstations:
Pilot (Navigator):     3 m3     2 Tons     2 m2
Gunners (4):     12 m3     8 Tons     8 m2

Sensors:
Navigational Radar:     5 m3     1 Ton     0.02 MLv     20 m2
Active Sensors (Range= 10, CS= 0) (2 MW):     10 m3     1 Ton     0.6 MLv     10 m2
Passive Sensors (Range= 5, CS= 0):     10 m3     1 Ton     0.8 MLv     30 m2

Weapons:
4 Hyde Dynamic EA 122 Lasers:     (12 m3)     12 Tons     0.42 MLv
4 Masked Turrets:     (12 m3)     12 Tons     0.14 MLv
4 Unified Target Engagement Systems (UTES):     (8 m3)     8 Tons     0.8 MLv

Hull Masking:
Advanced Hull Masking (30 MW):     90 m3     180 Tons     0.3 MLv     360 m2

Hull:
Dimensions:          Diameter= 12 m          Length= 20.778562 m
                             Volume= 2350 m3           MAT= 11

Advanced Synthetic Hull:     33 m3      66 Tons     2.7225 MLv

Streamlining and Thruster Fuel:
Fully Streamlined Vessel:     235 m3

Fuel to Achieve Orbit:     275.37 Tons for Take-Off 
Orbit Time:     360 Minutes
Note: 120 minuts are spent in the planet's atmosphere and 
240 minutes are spent in low orbit. 275.37 Tons of fuel uses 
up 15.29 hours of flight time, which leaves 8.71 hours of operation.

Cargo:
Cargo Capacity:     24.156 m3
Bracings:     0.244 m3     1.22 Tons 

Mass:
Vessel at 100% Fuel:     1545.22 Tons
Vessel at 75% Fuel:     1189.82 Tons
Vessel at 50% Fuel:     832.42 Tons
Vessel at 25% Fuel:     480.02 Tons

Drive Efficiency:
Drives at Full Power (25 MW) Escape Mode
Vessel at 100% Fuel:     4.4261005
Vessel at 75% Fuel:     4.8290048
Vessel at 50% Fuel:     5.4396449
Vessel at 25% Fuel:     6.5352912

Drives at Full Power (24 MW) Engage Mode
Vessel at 100 % Fuel:     4.3662812
Vessel at 75% Fuel:     4.7637399
Vessel at 50% Fuel:     5.3661272
Vessel at 25% Fuel:     6.4469655

Fire Statistics:
Fire Rating= +3     (+2 Computer, +1 Integral)

Comfort:
Comfort Rating= 0

Expenses:
Total Vessel Cost:     61,967,500 Livres     (or 61.9675 MLv)

Reflected Signatures:
Radial Viewed Area=     113.09734
Lateral Viewed Area=     249.34274
RVA with synthetics=     11.309734
LVA with synthetics=     24.934274

Fixture Points:          Maskde Turrets=     12
                                 Active Sensors=     0
                                 UTES=     12
                                 Passive Sensors=     0
                                 Total=      24

Radial Reflected Signature=     3
Lateral Reflected Signature=     3

Radiated Signature:
New Military Power Plant (at full, 30 MW)=    2     (5 without Masking)
Note: Lower MW levels reduces the signature.

Hull Hit Value:
Minor=     3
Major=     6
Destroyed=     11

Power Plant Hit Capacity:
Disabled=     17
Destroyed=     84
Note: 5 MW engines take 2 to be disbled and 10 to be 
destroyed, 10 MW engines take 4 to be disabled and 20 
to be destroyed. The number given above is for a 
general shot, not specific hits.

Target Profile:
Radial Viewed Area=     -2
Lateral Viewed Area=     -1

Firing Aspects:
- -Turret Number 1-
Bow
Port Bow Quarter
Port Broadside
Port Stern Quarter
- -Turret Number 2-
Stern 
Starboard Stern Quarter
Starboard Broadside
Starboard Bow Broadside
- -Turret Number 3-
Bow
Starboard Bow Quarter
Starboard Broadside
Starboard Stern Quarter
- -Turret Number 4-
Stern
Port Stern Quarter
Port Broadside
Port Bow Quarter

Armor Values:
Armor Rating=     1




Tachyon Class Interceptor
Warp Efficiency: 4.3171205, Power Plant: (4) 5 MW MHD 
Turbines,10 MW MHD Turbine, Fuel: 864 Tons, sufficient 
for 24 hours of operation, Range: NA, Mass: 1665.22 Tons, 
Cargo Capacity: 24.156 m3, Total Life Support: 5, 
Price: 61,967,500 Livres.


Ship Status
Ship Name: Tachyon
Ship Type: Interceptor
Owning World or Nation: North America
Ship Purpose: The Tachyon class interceptor was designed as a
vessel with the ability to combat enemy ships at a moments notice 
from on world bases. The ship is mostly power plant, thrusters 
and drives which makes it very fast, and very difficult to hit or 
track. The armament is impressive, consisting of 4 Hyde lasers 
in single mounts around the ship. After take-off, the vessel has 
about 6 hours of use in which to combat enemy vessels. It is also 
good for close system escorts and as express boats for important 
documents or items. With advent of the Kafer Invasion, the 
Tachyon has seen much action as aretaliation vessel versus the 
Kafers when liners, merchants, as well as militarty vessels are 
under attack . The unfortunate drawback is the ship's limited range. 
Fortunately enough, if the victim is within the ship's range, the
ship is sure to arrive very quickly.
Ship Date: July 14, 2297
Ship Construction: San Jose, California. United States. Earth
Ship Designer: Louis N. Norwood


Ship Status:

Movement:     9
Screens:     0
Radiated Signature:     2   (5 without masking)
Radial Reflected:     3
Lateral Reflected:     3
Targeting Computer:    +2
Radial Profile:     -2
Lateral Profile:     -1
Armor:     1

Hull Hits:
Minor:     000
Major:     000
Destroyed:     00000 0

Power Plant Hits:
Disabled:     00000 00000 00000 00
Destroyed:     00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 
00000 00000 00000 00000 00

Surface Fixtures:
Turret 1:     x1 +1   00     B-PBQ-PBS-PSQ
Turret 2:     x1 +1   00     S-SSQ-SBS-SBQ
Turret 3:     x1 +1   00     B-SBQ-SBS-SSQ
Turret 4:     x1 +1   00     S-PSQ-PBS-PBQ

Active Sensors:     (10)     00000 0 Primary
Passive Sensors:     (5)     00000 0 Primary

Critical Hits:
Computer:     00000 00 Primary
Life Support:     00000 00
Drive:     00000 00
Hangar Deck:     NA
Missle Bay:     NA
Continuous:     00000 00

Pilot:     0
Gunner 1:     0
Gunner 2:     0
Gunner 3:     0
Gunner 4:     0

Damage Control:
Party:     NA

Ordnance:
Missle:      None carried.
Submunitions:     None carried.

Crew:
Comfort:    0
Quality:     ?


Wenton Class Military Dropship

Power Plant:
New Military MHD Turbine (3 MW):    30m3     30 Tons     1 MLv

Fuel:
Fuel  (24 hours) :    71.28 m3     43.2 Tons
Note: Uses 1.8 Tons of fuel per hour and 0.03 Tons of fuel per minute.

Thrusters:
Power Plant Modifications:    3 m3     3 Tons     0.2 MLv

Stutterwarp:
New Military Drive (2 Power):    17 m3     20 Tons     21.2 MLv

Crew and Workstations:
Pilot:     3 m3     2 Tons     2 m2
Copilot:     3 m3     2 Tons     2 m2
Troopers:     60 m3     40 Tons     40 m2
Gunner:     3 m3     2 Tons     2 m2

Sensors:
Navigation Radar:     5 m3     1 Ton     0.02 MLv     20 m2
Standard Cartographic Sensors:     8 m3     8 Tons     0.03 MLv     10 m2
Standard Life Sensors:     15 m3     15 Tons     0.3 MLv     30 m2
Passive Sensors (Range=5, CS=0):     10 m3      1 Ton     0.8 MLv     30 m2

Weapons:
Hyde Dynamic EA 122 Laser:     (3 m3)     3 Tons     0.105 MLv
Masked Turret for Laser:     (3 m3)     3 Tons     0.035 MLv     30 m2
Unified Target Engagement System (UTES):     (2 m3)     2 Tons     0.2 MLv

Hull Masking:
Advanced Hull Masking:     9 m3     18 Tons     0.03 MLv     36 m2

Hull:
Dimensions:     Diameter= 4 m          Length= 23.873241 m
Volume= 300 m3     MAT= 4
Advanced Synthetic Hull:    No Volume     8 Tons     0.33 MLv

Streamlining and Thruster Fuel:
Fully Streamlined Vessel:     27 m3      0.033 MLv
Fuel Requirements for Lift-Off and Reentry:     32.397667 Tons
Note: This amount of fuel is equivalent to 17.998704 hours of flight. 
Using this amount of fuel leaves 6.001296 hours of flight.
Orbit Time: 36 minute to obtain maximum orbit, 12 minute are spent 
in the atmosphere while 24 minutes are spent in low orbit.
Note: These times as well as fuel requirements are based on Earth-like 
gravities (Earth=1). Multiply the figures by the appropriate gravity for 
non Earth-like planets.

Cargo:
Cargo Capacity:    35.3628 m3
Bracings:     0.3572 m3     1.786 Tons

Mass:
Vessel at 100% Fuel:       202.986 Tons
Vessel at 75% Fuel:       192.186 Tons
Vessel at 50% Fuel:       181.386 Tons
Vessel at 25% Fuel:       170.586 Tons

Drive Efficiency:
Vessel at 202.986 Tons:       3.751682
Vessel at 192.186 Tons:       3.8206812
Vessel at 181.386 Tons:       3.8950538
Vessel at 170.586 Tons:       3.9755777

Comfort:
Comfort Rating:   0

Fire Statistics:
Fire Rating:  +3     (+2 Computer, +1 Integral)

Expenses:
Total Vessel Cost:     24,283,000 Livres   (or 24.283 MLv)

Reflected Signatures:
Radial Viewed Area:    12.566371 m
Lateral Viewed Area:     95.492964 m
RVA times signature multiplier:     1.2566371 m
LVA times signature multiplier:     9.5492964 m
Fixture Points:     Masked Turret= 4
UTES= 4
Passive Sensors= 0
Cartographic Sensors= 25 (when in use)
Life Sensors= 25 (when in use)
Total Reflection:     RVA=      9.2566371
Total Reflection:     LVA=      17.5492694
Reflected Signature:     RVA=     2  (3 with one sensor, 4 with both)
Reflected Signature:     LVA=     2  (3 with one sensor, 4 with both)

Radiated Signature:
New Military Power Plant (3 MW):     0  (3 without Hull Masking)

Hull Hit Value:
Minor Breach:     1
Major Breach:     1
Damage Capacity:     2

Power Plant Hit Capacity:
Power Plant Disabled:     4
Damage Capacity:     6

Target Profile:
Radial:     -3
Lateral:     -2

Firing Aspects:
Turret 1):     
Port Bow Quarter
Bow
Starboard Bow Quarter
Starboard Broadside

Armor Value:
No armor carried
AV:     0


Wenton Class Dropship
Warp Efficiency: 3.751682, Power Plant: 3 MW MHD Turbine, 
Fuel 43.2 Tons, sufficient for 24 hours of operation, 
Range: NA, Mass: 202.986 Tons, Cargo Capacity: 35.3628 m3, 
Comfort: 0, Total Life Support: 23, Price: 24,283,000 Livres.


Ship Status:
Ship Name: Wenton Class
Ship Type: Dropship
Owning Nation or World: North America
Ship's Purpose: The Wenton Class Dropship was designed 
for the purpose of creating a craft that would be able to drop 
troopers behind enemy lines or for boarding actions, and to 
deploy troopers throughout the colonies as a fast reaction 
vessel. The ship is lightly armed and is not even armored. 
This ship has seen most action after a battle has ensued where 
boarding parties are needed to detain free floating ships with 
hostile crew. The ship is also very fast which keeps it out of 
trouble, and makes it an excellent blockade runner, or when 
troops have to be sent to a specific hot spot in a hurry, covertly 
or otherwise.
Ship Design Date: October 19, 2288 A.D.
Ship Construction: Cape Canaveral, Florida. United States. Earth.
Ship Designer: Swen P. Anderson

Ship Status:
Movement:     8
Screens:     0
Radiated Signature:     0   (3 without Hull Masking)
Radial Reflected:      2
Lateral Reflected:     2
Targeting Computer:     +2
Radial Profile:     -3
Lateral Profile:     -2
Armor:     0

Surface Fixture Hits:
Hull Hits:   0 Minor     0 Minor and Major and Destroyed
Power Plant Hits:   00 Disabled     0000 Destroyed
Active Sensors:   Not Applicable     00000 0 Primary
Passive Sensors:   (5)     00000 0 Primary

Critical Hits:
Computer:     00000 00 Primary
Life Support:     00000 00 
Drive:     00000 00 
Hangar Deck:   Not Applicable     00000 00
Missle Bay:   Not Applicable     00000 00
Continuous:     00000 00
Pilot:     0
Copilot:     0
Gunner:     0
Passenger:     00000 00000 00000 00000

Damage Control:
Party:    Not Applicable

Ordnance:
No missles or submunitions carried. 

Crew:
Comfort:     0
Quality:     ?


Note:

	m= meters
	m2 = square meters
	m3 = cubic meters

	;-)

-------- TML Message #1302 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1302
Date: Sat, 12 May 90 03:51:19 EDT
From: Jim W Lai <jwtlai@watcgl.waterloo.edu>
Subject: Re: Laser sniping attacks

>Date: Fri, 11 May 90 12:08:03 +0100
>From: Jim Cheetham <is_a063%ux.kingston.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk>
[writes in part]
>Subject: (1298) Laser sniping attacks
>
>	Just a quick thought -
>	A visible laser, operating on one frequency (which is, I
>	understand, what they normally do), can have it's effect
>	diminished by wearing clothes/armour that reflect that
>	frequency light (i.e. a green-light laser's effect will
>	be much less on green objects, because colour is, after
>	all, a radiating of light of a specific frequency ...)

It's not quite that simple.  Any color can be represented as a combination
of spectral frequencies.  Because human vision relies on three distinct
color photoreceptors, it's possible for two colors to look the same while
having different spectra.  So unless you know which frequency you wish to
reflect, caveat emptor.

>	So how about a universal laser armour that reflects low-
>	power lasers ? It could be any colour on the outside (to
>	prevent human detection) but a "super-white" colour underneath.

I've always wondered how effective a reflective, mylar-like layer underneath
a dress uniform would be.

>	The right sort of "super-white" would be effective against
>	all lasers near the visible spectrum, but whould have to be
>	made of lead to stop X-ray lasers ...

What tech level would white globe body armor be???

-------- TML Message #1303 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1303
Date: Sat, 12 May 90 16:18:35 EDT
From: Chris Bartlett (Mouser) <cdba_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
Subject: Re: "super-white" armor


That's what reflec armor is, in MegaTraveller.  A thin, super-reflective
bodysuit that you wear under your clothes or under your combat environment
suit.  

Chris


-------- TML Message #1304 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1304
From: "Johnny B." <ccm007@deneb.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 May 90 23:11:55 -0700
Subject: Races in the Imperium 


How many races are catalogued according to Travellers' Digest
and perhaps Challenge Magazine ? If they are not a lot, could
someone send me the race name and a one or two word desciption
or if there an FTP site that I can get a hold of. Thanks in
advance.

John Banagan
ccm007@deneb.ucdavis.edu
	or
jvbanagan@ucdavis.edu

-------- TML Message #1305 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1305
From: wilson m liaw <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: RAces
Date: Wed, 16 May 90 1:26:53 EDT

	What do you want a list of ? Major races or minor races?

	For major races, there are only five or six of them. 
	For minor races, there is A TON.

				Mac

-------- TML Message #1306 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1306
From: Mark F. Cook <wrgate.wr.tek.com!hpcvss!markc@hp-pcd.UUCP>
Subject: Alternative Combat Systems
Date: Mon, 21 May 90 10:44:27 PDT

I've have some quibbles with the MT combat system ever since I started
playing the game and I've wondered if any of you feel the same way.
Enclosed below is a response I posted to rec.games.frp on Usenet notes.

>From: markc@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Mark Cook)
>Date: Mon, 21 May 1990 16:10:41 GMT
>Subject: Re: Alternate combat system for (Mega)Traveller?
>Organization: St. Vitus Hospital for the Terminally Amused
>Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
>
>>      is there anywhere a good combat system for travaller? In the
>>rulebooks of traveller there are several systems but I don't like them
>>either. Or is there a general combat system which can be adapt to this
>>RPG?
>>
>>              Thanks in advance, U//i
>>---
>>Ulrich Dessauer, +49 89 841 78 11, ud@nitmar.ddt.sub.org, ud@nitmar.uucp
>
>I've been playing MegaTraveller for some time and, while I love the game,
>the combat system has always bothered me.  My main complaint is separate
>values for penetration and damage.  My gripe is that a person wearing no
>armor is (statistically) going to take the same amount of damage as a person
>wearing armor that the weapon is JUST BARELY CAPABLE of penetrating.
>
>However, I have found an acceptable alternative.  I now use the Friday Night
>Fire Fight (FNFF) combat rules from the Cyberpunk RPG.  I've already converted
>all the the MT slugthrower and laser weapons over to the FNFF system.  I don't
>think the rest will be too hard.
>
>Under the FNFF system (to paraphrase their own rule book) "a large caliber
>handgun is something to be truely respected!".
>
>Anyway, it works well for me.  If you're interested, drop me E-mail and I'll
>forward you the 9 or so pages of conversions I've got on line.  One word
>of warning: the material I've converted is incomplete without the Combat
>Tables from FNFF.  You'll need to buy the boxed game set to get those. I
>think it's worth it, but you'll have to judge for yourself.

Since I posted this response, I've finished converting the man-portable
energy weapons, the grenades, and the grenade launchers.  The entire
document is about 9 pages long.  The down side to this system is that 
it requres one or two 10-sided dice in addition to the standard D6's,
it doesn't use the standard MT task format for everything, and it is
incomplete without the combat tables from Cyberpunks Friday Night Fire
Fight.  However, the combat is fast and deadly.  This is how it should
be.  Speaking as an ex-marine, I can state catagorically that no one in
their right mind WANTS to be shot at, and this system certainly reinforces
that frame of mind.

Later,

        "Remember, once you pull the pin, Mr. Hand Grenade is no longer
         your friend!"
                        - Phoenix Command Small Arms Combat System

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1307 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1307
From: Mark F. Cook <wrgate.wr.tek.com!hpcvss!markc@hp-pcd.UUCP>
Subject: Re: Races
Date: Mon, 21 May 90 10:56:27 PDT

Well, since you're offering, Mac (:-)), I'd like to see a list of the
minor races.  I wouldn't neccessarily want a comprehensive description,
but planets of origin and a pointer to where each race is documented 
would sure be nice.

Later,

        "Look, Osborne, I don't care if this is how the Solomani USED to
         do it.  We've got passengers throwing up all over the lounge.
         NOW TURN THE INERTIAL DAMPERS BACK ON!!"

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1308 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1308
From: wilson m liaw <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Minor Races
Date: Thu, 24 May 90 13:33:16 EDT

Well, I'd give you a list if I could. But I don't have a list myself. I'll
ask DGP or GDW and see if they have a list. (chances are, they probably don't)

			Mac, me and my big mouth. (grin)

-------- TML Message #1309 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1309
Date: Sat, 26 May 90 16:04:04 -0500
From: christnp@acc.stolaf.edu
Subject: List subscription.


James:

As I am graduating from St. Olaf tomorrow, I think it would be a good idea
to remove my name from the mailing list.  When I get to grad school next
fall, I'll drop you a line to resubscribe.  Thanks much for the service,
it's been a real pleasure.  Best of luck!

Nick Christenson
christnp@thor.acc.stolaf.edu

-------- TML Message #1310 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1310
From: "Johnny B." <ccm007@deneb.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 May 90 20:58:30 -0700
Subject: New Megatraveller stuff 


Has anyone purchased the new supplement Fighting Ships of the Shattered 
Imperium ? How good is it. Let's hear a review.

John

-------- TML Message #1311 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1311
From: "Johnny B." <ccm007@deneb.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 May 90 21:06:25 -0700
Subject: Additional Address


This summer, my employer has chosen to lay off several of the lower class
student consultants (I'm only level 2 compared to the alimighty level 4s).
As a result, I will be leaching off my friend's account so in addition to
my address, I will use his as well it is:

anderson@dewdrop.ucdavis.edu

This is effective June 15, 1990

Please use both mailing addresses to ensure that I get your messages. I will
try to get a public account and will notify you if I succeed. Thanks in
advance.

John Banagan

-------- TML Message #1312 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1312
Date:     Thursday 31st May 1990 10:13:13 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>
Subject:  Re: Minor Races List

 
I'd like to see a list of minor races, too.  If there isn't one already
available, I'll volunteer to wade through my collection of Traveller
literature and compile one.  As a matter of fact, being a devoted xenophile
I was already considering such a project even before the subject was raised.
 
My Traveller collection is quite extensive, though not entirely complete.
I think the best idea is for me to start off by posting a first draft of
the list, and then inviting everyone to send me additions and corrections
to cover any material that I don't have, after which I will post a revised
version.
 
Before I start, let me ask for some opinions about what people want to see:
 
1. Content.  Do you want me to include races that have featured in "approved"
   products, e.g. those published by FASA or Paranoia Press?
 
2. Format.  What information should the list have in it?  IMHO, I think
   it would be best to keep it brief so that each record can fit on an
   80-character line.  Perhaps something like this:
 
NAME               HOMEWORLD                               REFERENCES
 
Ael Yael           Jaeyelya [location not available]       jtas15
Darrian (H)        Darrian/(0627)Spinward Marches          am8, jtas14
Vegan              Muan Gwi/(1717)Solomani Rim             sup10, sup11
Virush             Virshash/(2724)Reavers' Deep            jtas12
 
Name: The (H) after Darrian indicates a human race.
 
Homeworld: Full details are not always available.  In these cases we
will have to settle for whatever scraps of information we can get.
 
References: These would be very abbreviated in the list, with a key
given afterwards.  In the examples above, "jtas" is the Journal of
the Travellers Aid Society, "am" is an Alien Module and "sup" is a
Traveller Supplement.  I will only give page numbers for particularly
short and/or obscure references.
 
Any comments?
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:
 
"Hey! turn the @#$%&* lights back on -- I can't find the Jump button!"

-------- TML Message #1313 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1313
Date: Thu, 31 May 90 13:12:17 BST
From: Lesley Grant <lgrant@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: What do you do during jump?

	My group are all avid role-players. For example their characters
were all drafted (they claimed kidnapped) into the Scout service under some
obscure rule and we have spend the last three months playing out the six
week basic training. Anyway...
	Jump takes a week. A ship usually dieters around for up to another
week and jumps again. So about half a full-time spacefarer's life is spent
in jump. Jump is boring. I mean, you can't even look out the windows. Great
if you're travelling a high-tech luxary liner with holo-vision (tm) 
entertainment &c but your average Subsidised Merchant or Scout is just a bare
TL9 (?). Entertainment facilities = pack of cards.
	So what do your characters do to entertain themselves in jump? Most
referees I imagine just skip over jump declaiming you character spends the
time reading an improving book. But how a character spends its recreation
time says a lot about a character. There's only so much maintenence you can
do to a starship.
	In my group there was eight of them packed onto an elderly scout ship.
In theory a scout ship (Snapshot plan) can take eight. But we all know about
the life support. Being different nationalities, religions and being cooped
up in a ship where half the available room was taken up with "cargo" and the
smell getting worse does not lead to domestic peace. In fact is was probably
their unifying hatred of their draft officer/captor that kept them coming to
blows.
	Their relief from boredrum involved constructing a complicated game.
They locked the door between the corridor and the day room open and welded
a ramp over the lintel. Then one person would get into a shopping cart (one
of their few momentos from their home planet) and starting at the bridge
another would push them full speed up the corridor and onto the ramp. The 
trick then was for the passenger/payload to leap from the cart, pass above
the table welded to the floor and below the pipe running across the ceiling
and land on the other side before crashing into the engineering door. Points
were scored for sucess, style, and finesse.
	I'm not sure I'll ever understand how the TL4 imagination works.

				Jo Jaquinta
				lgrant@maths.tcd.ie

P.S. sysgen4 -- planetary mapping is well on the way. I would greatly 
appreciate it if all those how have uses the sysgen suite of programs can
write to me commenting on them so I can put them together for the next
release. Target date -- 1 July.

-------- TML Message #1314 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1314
From: "Johnny B." <ccm007@deneb.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 May 90 09:20:24 -0700
Subject: Summer address 


In case you didn't get my summer e-mail address, it's :

anderson@dewdrop.ucdavis.edu

This address is effective June 15th 1990 and will be in effect until
late September unless otherwise noted. Thanks for your patience.

John Banagan

-------- TML Message #1315 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1315
From: SULAIMAN <asulaima@orion.cair.du.edu>
Subject: Fighting Ships
Date: Thu, 31 May 90 11:40:03 MDT


	Fighting Ships of the Imperium... Overview.


Biggest ripoff in GDW history. Proofreading is miserable and the ships 
do not follow any of the rules in the book. Battleships are built at TLs
where the max comp does not have the CPs to control them. Armor is plated
in excess of all rules to the point of making the ships TOTALLY impervious
to damage. By Totally I mean you need a die roll of 15+ straight witha spinal'
mount on 2D6 to do damage!

Somebody appears to have gone Spreadsheet crazy on the ships as designs are
almost identical. Other flaws abound . No launch tubes for any ship even
though they are carrying 300+ fighters. Launch 1 fighter per turn.......

In my opinion save the $10.00 and build your own ships.

	Ameer Sulaiman.

-------- TML Message #1316 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1316
Date: Thu, 31 May 90 17:21:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (1310) New Megatraveller stuff

Johnny B. writes:
>Has anyone purchased the new supplement Fighting Ships of the Shattered 
>Imperium ? How good is it. Let's hear a review.

I was not impressed by it.  One big bug (or feature; it may have been intended)
is that most of the designs ignore the TL restrictions on armor - the
battleships
have armor between 100 and 120.  If this is permitted, it is not neccesarily
a bad idea, since it makes the ships virtually invulnerable to everything
except meson guns.  Another problem is that some of the ships have PA's
as spinal mounts. There is no excuse for this, since many of the ships
have armor that would make such weapons completely useless.  The one
design I liked was the 20 ton fighter with agility 6 and a type 9 computer -
it has a Def DM of 17.  The text on the organization and history of the
Imperial Navy may or may not be useful to you.
In short, don't buy it before taking a close look to see if it is worth it
to you.

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1317 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1317
From: wilson m liaw <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Minor Race List
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 17:02:39 EDT

Forwarded message:

> From sfellows@csm9a.mines.colorado.edu Wed May 30 13:16:57 1990
> Date: Wed, 30 May 90 11:12:36 CDT
> From: sfellows@csm9a.mines.colorado.edu (FELLOWS STEVEN B  -5 CR)
> Message-Id: <9005301612.AA28308@csm9a.mines.colorado.edu>
> To: macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu
> 
> Addaxur	AM4
> Ael Yael	JTAS15	Jaeyelya
> Ahetaowa	B8	//Ealiyasiyw
> Answerin (minor human race)	TD5	Answerin/Parsi/Vland
> Bwaps (Newts)	JTAS11	Marhaban/Lentuli/Empty Quarter(0426)
> Cafadans (minor human race)	TD3	Cafad/Sashrakusha/Corridor
> (Capital Dwellers)(minor human race)
> 	TD9	Capital/Core/Core
> Chirpers	AM5
> Darrians (minor human race)	JTAS14	Darrian/Darrian/Spinward Marches
> Dynchia	JTAS24	Melantris/Melantris/Leonidae
> Ebokin	Traveller Adventure	Yebab/Aramis/Spinward Marches
> Eliyoh	TD9
> Eshaar Ashah	Ordeal by Eshaar	Eshaar//Far Frontiers
> Geonee (minor human race)	S8
> Girug'kagh	JTAS21	Kagh'kir/Kirarurr!ka/Ruupiin
> Githiaskio	JTAS16	Githiaski/Darthe/Star's End
> Gl'lu	TD1	Kubishush/Inar/deneb
> Gurvin	AM7
> Happirhva	FT2	Rejhappur/Scotian Deep/Reaver's Deep
> Hlanssai	JTAS22	Vrirhlanz
> H'Oskhikhil	TSG(series)	Storm/Riftdeep/Reaver's Deep
> Ilthara	PG Drexilthar	Drexilthar/Derexilthar/Reaver's Deep
> Irdu	TD3	Ishirdu/Two Worlds/Corridor
> Irhadre(minor human race)	AM8	//Lishun
> Ithklur	AM7
> J'aadje	DA6	Gaajpadje/Ea/Reaver's Deep
> Jessa	Rescue on Galatea	Galatea/Inverness/Far Frontiers
> Jgd-Il-Jagd	JTAS17
> Kidulans	Grand Census	Kidulaar//Fornast
> Kolzar	TD5	Wimorel/Anakod/Vland
> Lalendrians	JTAS26	Lalendriss//K'righeek
> Languljigee	PG Drexilthar	Lajanjigal/Drexilthar/Reaver's Deep
> Larianz	SM Campaign	Byret/Mora/Spinward Marches
> Llellewyloly	Traveller Adventure	Junidy/Aramis/Spinward Marches
> Loeskalth(extinct minor humanrace)
> 	Imperial Encyclopedia	//Gushemege
> Minlad (just barely sentient)	TD6	Kaiid/Shuna/Lishun
> Mwawmbijebe	Alien Realms	Kualakhtaea
> Prt'	JTAS26	Prt'//Spica
> Sabmiqys	JTAS 28	Sabmiqys//Antares
> Satha	Rescue on Galatea	Galatea/Inverness/Far Frontiers
> Shriekers	A10	567-908/District 268/Spinward Marches
> Suerrat (minor human race)	S8	//Ilelish
> Tahavi	TD5	Tohaver/Vland/Vland
> Vegan	S11	Muan Gwi/Vega/Solomani Rim
> Virushi	JTAS12	Virshash//Reaver's Deep
> Za'tachk	AM7
> 


-------- TML Message #1318 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1318
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 17:07:59 -0400
From: wilson m liaw <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: The correct minor race list


Here is the fixed and correct minor race list, I got it from Steve Fellows, who
got it from Marc Miller at GDW..

Addaxur	AM4
Ael Yael	JTAS15	Jaeyelya
Ahetaowa	B8	//Ealiyasiyw
Answerin (minor human race)	TD5	Answerin/Parsi/Vland
Bwaps (Newts)	JTAS11	Marhaban/Lentuli/Empty Quarter(0426)
Cafadans (minor human race)	TD3	Cafad/Sashrakusha/Corridor
(Capital Dwellers)(minor human race)
	TD9	Capital/Core/Core
Chirpers	AM5
Darrians (minor human race)	JTAS14	Darrian/Darrian/Spinward Marches
Dynchia	JTAS24	Melantris/Melantris/Leonidae
Ebokin	Traveller Adventure	Yebab/Aramis/Spinward Marches
Eliyoh	TD9
Eshaar Ashah	Ordeal by Eshaar	Eshaar//Far Frontiers
Geonee (minor human race)	S8
Girug'kagh	JTAS21	Kagh'kir/Kirarurr!ka/Ruupiin
Githiaskio	JTAS16	Githiaski/Darthe/Star's End
Gl'lu	TD1	Kubishush/Inar/deneb
Gurvin	AM7
Happirhva	FT2	Rejhappur/Scotian Deep/Reaver's Deep
Hlanssai	JTAS22	Vrirhlanz
H'Oskhikhil	TSG(series)	Storm/Riftdeep/Reaver's Deep
Ilthara	PG Drexilthar	Drexilthar/Derexilthar/Reaver's Deep
Irdu	TD3	Ishirdu/Two Worlds/Corridor
Irhadre(minor human race)	AM8	//Lishun
Ithklur	AM7
J'aadje	DA6	Gaajpadje/Ea/Reaver's Deep
Jessa	Rescue on Galatea	Galatea/Inverness/Far Frontiers
Jgd-Il-Jagd	JTAS17
Kidulans	Grand Census	Kidulaar//Fornast
Kolzar	TD5	Wimorel/Anakod/Vland
Lalendrians	JTAS26	Lalendriss//K'righeek
Languljigee	PG Drexilthar	Lajanjigal/Drexilthar/Reaver's Deep
Larianz	SM Campaign	Byret/Mora/Spinward Marches
Llellewyloly	Traveller Adventure	Junidy/Aramis/Spinward Marches
Loeskalth(extinct minor humanrace)
	Imperial Encyclopedia	//Gushemege
Minlad (just barely sentient)	TD6	Kaiid/Shuna/Lishun
Mwawmbijebe	Alien Realms	Kualakhtaea
Prt'	JTAS26	Prt'//Spica
Sabmiqys	JTAS 28	Sabmiqys//Antares
Satha	Rescue on Galatea	Galatea/Inverness/Far Frontiers
Shriekers	A10	567-908/District 268/Spinward Marches
Suerrat (minor human race)	S8	//Ilelish
Tahavi	TD5	Tohaver/Vland/Vland
Vegan	S11	Muan Gwi/Vega/Solomani Rim
Virushi	JTAS12	Virshash//Reaver's Deep
Za'tachk	AM7



				Mac

Wilson "Mac" Liaw                    | If you put your mind to it, you can 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | acomplish anything. 
=====================================|      - Marty McFly, Back To The Future 
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|-----------------------------------------

-------- TML Message #1319 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1319
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 12:11 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: On what to do during Jump


I have at least one phenomenal example of a great means for a party to keep
itself occupied and happy during Jumps...Near Miss, the party featured in 
my story and adventure-module series at GenCons from 1984 to 1989, is a 
professional music/stage group, and spends its entire Jump period writing
material ("Hey, Cap'n, what rhymes with 'blowtorch'?"), researching old
remnants of ancient music for rearrangements ("I am having difficulty 
translating 'Whop-bop-a-loo-bop A-whop-bam-boom'...."), practicing ("Of
COURSE I can play it right...Give me a month, okay?"), designing new sets
and stage effects ("...and then there's this massive explosion and stage 
blood starts pouring out of everyone's clothes, and--no? Why not?"), and 
so on. I should also pont out, in more general terms, that keeping one's
skills honed requires a great deal of practice, and Jump is an ideal time
to do so. So one would expect martial arts classes, exercise periods, 
marksmanship training, fencing, simulated combat runs, and so on, in
profusion. But a common hobby for the entire party, preferably one that
is time-consuming and cooperative, is a big plus. As has been drawn in 
many Traveller rulebooks by artists looking for an easy joke, why not
play Traveller? Have a game being played by the characters, within the
game the players are playing....ooh, bad karma....what an idea....

Excuse me, folx, I have to get writing...I just had a great idea for 
an RPG campaign.....("No, you can't run that character the way YOU'D
run him, you have to run it the way your CHARACTER would run him!")

metlay

PS> Marriage is a really nifty concept. I recommend it heartily. |->

-------- TML Message #1320 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1320
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 90 13:46:04 EST
From: Paul Dale <grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Fighting Ships

hiya,

>	Fighting Ships of the Imperium... Overview.
>Battleships are built at TLs
>where the max comp does not have the CPs to control them. Armor is plated
>in excess of all rules to the point of making the ships TOTALLY impervious
>to damage. By Totally I mean you need a die roll of 15+ straight witha spinal'
>mount on 2D6 to do damage!
Actually a spinal meson gun will get through, and the big ships don't have
decent meson screens.  In fact one of the cruisers has a better chance of
survival than a dreadnaught because it has a decent meson screen.  I did
look at cruiser vs dreadnaught and came to the conclusion that mutual
destruction is the expected result (it was the cruiser with the spinal meson
gun vs the TL15 dreadnaught).

As an aside:
	The most powerful ship in the book is probably the experimental
	battleship carrying 3 battle riders.  4 Meson gun-T's packed in there!!

>
>Somebody appears to have gone Spreadsheet crazy on the ships as designs are
>almost identical. Other flaws abound . No launch tubes for any ship even
>though they are carrying 300+ fighters. Launch 1 fighter per turn.......

Hows about the tankers (I think) with more fuel tankage than available space?
Also many of the designs have more heads up displays than crew members!
(how do you try to rationalise that one???)

>
>In my opinion save the $10.00 and build your own ships.
I agree.



							Pauli
seeya
SNIF

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Qld              | JANET:           grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4067         | EAN:                          grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!batserver.cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e7g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au

-------- TML Message #1321 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1321
From: ccm010@castor.ucdavis.edu
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 90 20:14:09 -0700
Subject: minor race stuff&stuff


please sign me up and send
thank you.
		Trevor, Squire Inc. (aka The Schizo. Squire).

-------- TML Message #1322 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1322
Date:     Monday 4th June 1990 11:03:49 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>
Subject:  Re: Marc Miller's minor races list

 
I don't wish to seem ungrateful, but I can't help noticing that
Marc Miller's list of minor races is hopelessly out of date.
For example, there are no entries for anything in the Travellers
Digest after issue 9.
 
There was also nothing from the Beyond or Vanguard Reaches.
Does this mean that GDW has disowned the Paranioa Press books?
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:

-------- TML Message #1323 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1323
From: "Johnny B." <ccm007@deneb.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 90 08:45:57 -0700
Subject: Yet another summer address.


Okay, here is yet another summer address I can be reached at but this one is
effective immediately (if not sooner):

ez002182@deneb.ucdavis.edu

Thanks for your patience.

John Banagan

-------- TML Message #1324 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1324
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 90 11:56:11 EDT
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: He's alive....

- ----- Begin Included Message -----

Hey gang,

Well, after getting everybody's mail this morning and discovering that
nobody else had heard from Richard either, I started to get worried.
So I called Oregon Software to see if a) he was OK, or b) I needed to
send roses somewhere.  (Hey, I'm a 'journalist', right?  After all,
Mike Wallace ('60 MINUTES') bothers people at work all the time. :-))

Fortunately (for all of us), the correct answer is (a).  I talked to
Richard for about 5 minutes.  He's fine, but he's been incredibly
busy.  Also, he was without E-Mail for about 2 weeks, plus agora has
been kind of flaky for a while.  So he's missed a lot of what's been
passing between us since (I guess, not his) about the beginning of
May.

We should be hearing from him in the next few days, so, DON'T TOUCH
THAT DIAL!!!

        Mark F. Cook aka Adrian Bishop (Yellow Journalism 'R' Us)

- ----- End Included Message -----


-------- TML Message #1325 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1325
Subject: Just to say adios ...
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 90 13:50:36 +0100
From: Jim Cheetham <is_a063@ux.kingston.ac.uk>


	It does seem to have gotten quiet out there recently,
	doesn't it? Ho hum ...

	In a completely un-connected manner, I now bow out
	of the limelight, as I am off for a nice long holiday.
	When I come back (some time in September, probably)
	I will be at a different address ... what that will
	be I don't yet know ...

	Anyway, have a good summer, y'all !
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     _____               (JANET) jcheetham@uk.ac.kingston
    (__ __) O  ______    (local) is_a063@ux.king
   (____)  (_)(_)()(_)   (voice) (+44) 81 549 1366 x2690
   Jim Cheetham, ISD Kingston Polytechnic.
   "... nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------- TML Message #1326 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1326
Date:     Fri, 8 Jun 90 13:16:47 EST
From: eric@cc.uq.oz.au
Subject:  Origins TCS tourneys & Eurisko

Hi,

I was reading in an old copy of Scientific American about a computer
program called Eurisko. I'm not too sure how it worked, but I think it's
given a set of "axioms and premises" and uses some general heuristics to
derive things from them. For example, given basic theory, derives concepts
and theorems about primes, etc, etc.

One year the author of the program actually put it to a useful purpose.  He 
entered it in Origin's TCS tourney :-) It either won (or came close) using
ship and fleet designs which were laughed at by human opponents (initially
anyway). Apparently, it used *lots* of small agile ships (fighters?).
Unfortunately, thats all I know about. Can anyone expand on this?
Did anyone play against Eurisko?!

Anyone have the parameters used for the tourneys? (I know the TCS supp has some
to about '82, '83 I think) Even better would be winning fleet designs
from the various years. I don't think they were ever published in the 
JTAS, though there were  a few articles about ship design and TCS in
general. Are they available anywhere?

Thanks,
Eric.
- ----------------------------------+------------------------------------------
Eric Halil                        |
Prentice Computer Centre          |Internet/CSnet:           eric@cc.uq.oz.au
University of Queensland  4072    |Bitnet:      eric%cc.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
AUSTRALIA                         |UUCP:          uunet!munnari!cc.uq.oz!eric
Phone: +61 7 377 3022             |JANET:          eric%cc.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
- ----------------------------------+------------------------------------------

-------- TML Message #1327 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1327
Subject: What to do in Hyperspace
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 13:08:23 EDT
From: William Ricker <wdr@wang.COM>

Subject: Re: On what to do during Jump

One of our PC ships was top-heavy with characters with computer skill.
Two of them have formed a VideoGames company (whose offices are the cabin
next to the engineering deck, with a branch office in the Captain's
Stateroom) for which they moonlight during jump and while the /s/l/e/a/z/e/
Trade Officer is selling more tangible goods on planets.  The royalties
from Metal-Munching-Mice are begining to be substantial.  The games tend
to be semi-autobiographical, recounting our run-ins with various 
exobiological oddities and 1st Empire security robots -- as well as cross-
fertilizing the cultures and video-games of a hundred worlds.

In the Gazoid 8ight-Worlds universe (and Blacow's subsidiary The Scarp),
a "special effect" of Jump travel is group-hallucination from the collective
unconcious if you look out the viewports.
      So the GM always tells us what hyperspace looks like this
time.  Rumor has it that no one has ever lived to see the Coyote catch
the Road-Runner and tell about it; and that seeing these mythic characters
in hyperspace is a sure sign your jumper is sick.

Some PCs stock up on back issues of Astrogator Today, Space Bimbos, or 
whatever at each port of call.

The ground-pounders on one ship built a still in one cabin to provide in-
flight entertainment.

A fairly even mix of sexes in the crew can provide fertile ground for
in-flight intra-party role-play.  (one no-skill Corporal Good-Body has
seriously endangered his job by moving out of the cabin of the (female)
Head of Ground-poudners; he didn't realize he'd been hired *only* as
a boy-toy for Major Lollita.  Lucky for him, we're too far beyond the 
pale to dump him at next landfall, so she's stuck with a useless gunsel
on the payroll for a while.  Meanwhile, she and her Sargeant Major are
busy training the raw-recruit Catperson-Sepoi we hired at a barberous
colony planet.)

If the PCs pick up pets on various planets, all sorts of things can 
happen in between exciting events.

Need I continue?

WOuld the Gazoid one care to elaborate, if he's still on this mailing
list?

- -- 
/bill ricker/
wdr@wang.com a/k/a wricker@northeastern.edu
*** Warning: This account not authorized to express opinions ***

-------- TML Message #1328 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1328
From: /dev/ph1 <jscratch@eklektik.pgh.pa.us>
Subject: Zhodani References
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 90 1:50:13 EDT

Hi Netland,

	I'm cobbling together a little article on Zhodani & psionics in 
Traveller.  So far I'm doing fine - I have the original psionics rules,
which haven't changed appreciably in the Megatraveller rules, and I'm 
tapping away at the keyboard.  What I need, though, is some more information
on the Zhodani themselves.  Although I could certainly use any suggestions
anybody wants to post/send about psionics & ideas for zhodani, etc.

	I used to have a copy of the Zhodani Alien module, won it as 
second prize in a tournament somewhere.  Naturally, at the time I didn't
play traveller over-much, and what I did play never had anything to do 
with the Zhodani.  Also naturally, when the subject finally came up a
few years later, the module was nowhere to be scene (I'm talking about the
new line of alien modules, not the Zhodani adventure).  Equally, it seems
to be very hard to find in the stores.  So if anybody is willing to offer
me an old copy, I'd love to hear from 'em.  Or, if anybody is willing to
photocopy the pertinent parts, let me know. 

	I'd also appreciate pointers to Zhodani referencess in the various
'zines and adventures, or summaries of important details.  Mainly interested
in dates & names and that sort of stuff.  For example, a recent Space Gamer
has a traveller adventure called "The Possession Ball, about a small crystal
sphere that... well, never mind.  The point is that I'm going to try to work
the basic information and the date & place into the article for some "GDW
Continuity" :-)  So any references would help.  I might also be interested
in tracking down articles that could be useful.

	So how about it out there?  Can you give me a hand?  Or at least
some suggestions or questions you think might be interesting in an article
on Traveller Psionics?

Steven J. Owens  |  scratch@unix.cis.pitt.edu | jscratch@eklektik.pgh.pa.us
					
".... plaids were outlawed before we even had spaceflight."
"Do tell?"
"Yes.  They tended to drive computers quite mad.
 Almost caused a few wars before they figured it out."
  
	Buck Godot - Zap Gun For Hire, Phil Phoglio


	

-------- TML Message #1329 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1329
Date: Thursday 14th June 1990 09:35:06 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>
Subject: HIWG in the UK?

 
Way back in the dim and distant mists of ancient history, I seem to recall
someone mentioning the existence of a UK division of the HIWG.
 
Can anyone provide more information about this?  A UK address would be nice...
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:

-------- TML Message #1330 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1330
Date: Thursday 14th June 1990 09:36:17 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Zhodani References

 
Regarding material on the Zhodani, my main interest with them is their
presence in the Far Frontiers and Vanguard Reaches, so if any information
is wanted in this area, I'd be happy to look it up.
 
A couple of interesting references:  SORAG (Paranoia Press)
                                     Ordeal by Eshaar (FASA)
 
Unfortunately, both are quite old and probably very difficult to obtain.
 
.....
 
Meanwhile, I've been hard at work revising and extending the minor races
list.  I hope to have it finished next week.
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:

-------- TML Message #1331 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1331
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 90 22:54 EST
From: "RITVAX is gone, so send mail here!" <JEDI@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Zhodani


    A friend of mine and I are also looking for the Zhodani Aliens Module. 
    We happen to know someone who just opened a store up here in Rochester,
    NY and who also runs a mail-order place.  He specializes in getting out
    of print items.  He said(when I last asked him about it) that HE hasn't
    seen any sign of it, and he has some VERY good connections.  It's rare,
    and I'd like to get my hands on a copy too.  I'll keep you informed if
    anything turns up.

    						Gary Schreiber

-------- TML Message #1332 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1332
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 90 18:37 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: *sigh* The Librarian sticks his neck out....


...for people who desperately need the Zhodani Module. My Traveller
collection being what it is (nearly complete), I think I have a copy
of Alien Module 4 lying around that I can Xerox for people who'll pay
for the copies. CAVEAT EMPTOR! I am still in Tennessee and I have
NO idea of when I will get home to my Traveller stuff; furthermore,
there may be delays in my getting to the Xeroxing, as I'm going to have
a lot of pieces to pick up in the rest of my life (including getting
my defunct Traveller game up and going again). So I am willing to help
only those who have exhausted every other option they have; in good
conscience I can't promise any more than that.

metlay

-------- TML Message #1333 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1333
From: Haraldur Karlsson <haralkar@rhi.hi.is>
Subject: How much for a Merc. unit?
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 90 15:37:32 GMT

How much would one have to pay for employing a mercinary unit over a
long or short periode. What would it be for a Special Force Commando
Group what would a "nice price" be, single assignment or many.

- -- 
================================================================================
Haraldur Karlsson.         \ _   "Deep in the rain forest it was doing what
Internet: haralkar@rhi.hi.is   \ _   it usually does in rain forrests, which 
UUCP: ..!mcsun!isgate!rhi!haralkar \    is raining: hence the name." D.A.
 

-------- TML Message #1334 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1334
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 90 13:32:04 -0400
From: Andrew Salamon <salamon@sun.udel.edu>
Subject: Zhodani alien module

I also have the Zhodani module, but it is at home.  (I think).  If I can get it
I would be glad to digitize it and send it out if that wouldn't be breaking any
major laws (bending is OK).  I would have thought it would be illegal but our
librarian was suggesting it so it can't be too bad, can it?  Or am I missing 
something?

Magic in my Mind                     |   /Andrew/
Music in my Heart                    |   soi-disant Bleydion op Rhys
Laughter in my Soul                  |   salamon@sun.acs.udel.edu
And...A Sword in my Fist (sigh)      | 

-------- TML Message #1335 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1335
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Desperately seeking the Zhodani module...
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 90 18:20:43 PDT

If some of you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want a copy of the Zhodani Alien
Module, I strongly suggest you contact the Weekend Warrior in N. Holly-
Wood, CA.  That particular module was the only one I didn't have and
I mailed off for a copy of it yesterday.  They're holding one for me
and as of last Friday, they still had two others up for grabs.  If
you want to give them a try, I suggest you call and attempt to have
a copy held for you BEFORE you mail in an order.  They will usually
hold something for 10 days without charge.  The phone number is:

      The Weekend Warrior: (818) 988-1441

and the address is:

      The Weekend Warrior
      8116 Van Noord Ave.
      N. Hollywood, CA.  91605

My copy of the Zhodani module was $18.00 ($15.00 for the module, plus
another $3.00 for shipping and handling).  If you call them, confirm
the price for yourself.

I have no association with the Weekend Warrior, other than that of a
repeatedly satisfied customer (Heck, the last time I asked, these guys
even had BRAND-NEW, bagged sets of GDW Striker available!).

Check them out for yourself.

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1336 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1336
Subject: RE: How much for a Merc. unit?
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 90 7:57:42 EDT
From: "45252-Peter L. Berghold" <peterb@homxa.att.COM>

Operating System: uts 5.2.6b 5
Organization: AT&T-BL, Red Hill System Administration Group (HRSAG)
Location: HR 2C119
Phone: (201) 615-4419
Comment: Are we having fun yet?
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL16]



|* How much would one have to pay for employing a mercinary unit over a
|* long or short periode. What would it be for a Special Force Commando
|* Group what would a "nice price" be, single assignment or many.

The gating criteria here is:

	1) What size unit?
	2) Equipped to what TL?
	3) How much support does their employer intend to supply?
	4) What is the mission?
	
... and not necessarily in the order of priority.   Also, is this
a success only ticket?

A merc unit that one of my players (the unit has since become a
corporation and are used as NPC's in my campaigns) was involved in
actually performed a ticket for "free".  A merchant concern got
tired of its ships being hijacked by a band of pirates.  Since
they (the merchants) knew where they (the pirates) were, they were
quite miffed when the Imperial Navy wouldn't supply any forces to
crush the pirates.  Enter Armageddon Industries, a merc unit that
was definitely making a name for themselves.  The deal struck? 

Armageddon Industries supplied a company sized assault force.  The
merchant company would supply ships as needed to transport and
land the force at the pirate's base (a large moon orbiting a gas
giant) as well as provide transport for the extraction.
Armageddon Industries would be allowed to "capture" as much booty
as they could find at the pirate base as well as being entitled to
any reward monies as would be paid by Imperial authorities for the
capture of said pirates.   It turned out to be very profitable for
the mercs. 



- -- 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Peter L. Berghold            |  AT&T, HRSAG, +1 (201) 615-4419        |
|INTERNET: plb@homxa.att.com  |  UUCP: {uunet!allegra|att}!violin!plb  |
|FAX: 1(201) 706-2004         |                                        |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------- TML Message #1337 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1337
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 90 22:57:47 PDT
From: gwh%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@lilac.berkeley.edu


It's generally easiest to look at Mercenary prices from the enconomic viewpoint.
Estimate the length of the ticket and the size and equipment level of the 
unit that will be hired.  Figure out what it's payroll will be for the length
of the contract (about Cr 325 per person in the unit).  Add maintenance costs
on it's equipment ( 10% of purchace price per year; divide by portion of year
the ticket lasts for, minimum 3% ).  Add any specific costs that will be 
required by the ticket.  Total, and multiply by 1.25.  This is the Basic
Mission Cost; the estimate, plus margins for unexpected variable costs.  
Since this is a commercial activity (in addition to a military one...) you
have to allow a profit margin.  Mercenary tickets should use a Profit Margin
Multiplier of 1.3 [safe simple mission] to 1.5 [average] to an extreme of 
2.0 [success-only and difficult ticket].  

For instance, let's hire a Platoon sized infantry unit as a Striker unit for
a classic Blitzkrieg.  It's estimated to last for one month; just to be safe,
the ticket was written for two, with an extension for two more in case of
lasting hostilities at the same cost.
	The unit size, including some support personell and headquarters, is
fifty five people.  Equipped as medium infantry, with Gauss rifles, equipment
runs about Cr 2000 per person.  The payroll is (Cr325 x 2months x 55 personel)
or Cr35750.  Equipment costs are (Cr2000 x 55 x 0.03 (min. maint. costs) ) or
Cr3300.  The total cost is then (1.25 x (Cr3300 + Cr35750)) or Cr48,800.
Given that this is a more or less 'average' mission, this should be 
multiplied by 1.5, for a total ticket of roughly Cr75,000 for the two-month
mission.  Of course, if you had to have the unit imported from an off-planet
location, you'd have to include travel costs of about Cr110,000 per jump...
[and you wonder why local mercenary units are so popular 8-) ! ]


 ==    George William Herbert   ==   I support Open-Access Computing! UCB OCF 
========== JOAT for Hire: ========= ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ==Anything, Anywhere, My Price.==   Quantum Mechanics can explain everything
  ==   gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu    ==  except Madonna, Flame Wars, and NASA's space
   ==  ucbvax!lilac!ocf!gwh   ==     Policy.  We're working on the first two...

-------- TML Message #1338 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1338
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: How much for a merc unit?
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 90 10:07:21 BST

Haraldur Karlsson <haralkar@rhi.hi.is> writes:

> How much would one have to pay for employing a mercinary unit over a
> long or short periode. What would it be for a Special Force Commando
> Group what would a "nice price" be, single assignment or many.

The troops get paid in two ways.  First, they get monthly salaries like
anyone else.  Second, they get shares of the final profit from a mission,
once expenses and salaries have been taken out of the payment.  Higher
ranking members of the unit get more shares.

The standard salaries and shares for the troops, given in Ye Olde Booke 4,
"Mercenary", are as follows:

Rank				Salary		Shares
- ---- 				------		------
Private				300		1
Lance Corporal			400		2
Corporal			450		3
Lance Sergeant			500		3
Sergeant			550		4
Gunnery Sergeant		600		4
Leading Sergeant		700		5
First Sergeant			800		6
Sergeant Major			1000		7
Second Lieutenant		1000		5
First Lieutenant		1200		6
Captain				1400		7
Major				1600		8
Lt. Colonel			1800		9
Colonel				2000		10

Before shares are determined, the ticket holder (usually the unit commander
and his business partners) deduct 50% of the payment as profit.

Salaries of deceased members go to the next of kin or designated recipient.
Shares go only to surviving members.

These are the standard payments.  It is up to the employer and the mercenary
commander to negotiate higher rates for such things as a particularly skilled
unit, a particularly tough job, etc.  The contract may give a fixed sum, which
the unit can divide up how it likes, or it may specify standard salaries, or
double salaries, etc.  If the total payment doesn't cover all the salaries,
the mercenaries may get angry.  Getting mercenaries angry is probably another
candidate for Mike Metlay's old list of How To Die Young. :-)

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1339 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1339
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 90 20:27 EDT
From: EHT%PSUARCH.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: Got some questions for ya....

Greetings and Salutations,

  I am starting my first attempt at GMing MegaTraveller(well, actually, its
my second attempt, the first bombed when everyone cancelled due to class
pressures after the first nite of play :). If anyone has any tips for me,
lets hear 'em.  I'm ready!
   Now a few questions....

1.  Aging:  does it seem reasonable to you'uns that 3,000 years in the future
            the point when aging starts to affect your performance is about the
            same as it is now?  I am considering pushing the aging rolls back
            to at least 50 or 60.  I don't remember reading anywhere what the
            average lifespan is, does anyone have any clues?  If I push the
            aging rolls back, I would probably increase the lifespan also.
            Comments?

2. Timeline:  I am not sure where I want to start my players WRT the
            rebellion.  I could start them before, say about 1100, right
            around the event, or somewhat after, say 1140 or so.  What have the
            rest of you done as far as the timeline is concerned?

3.  Place:  I am thinking of starting my players in either Zarushagar or
            Reaver's Deep sector.  Are there official maps of these
            sectors and if so, where can I find them?

   Thanx all (especially James for keeping this monster going!  :)

- -------
Captain Sir Michael Talmoth,  UPP:  BA5A8B

"You see me now a veteran,
     Of a thousand psychic wars,
         I've been living on the edge so long,
             Where the winds of Limbo roar,
 And I'm young enough to look at,
     And far too old to see,
         All the scars are on the inside,
             I don't know if there's anything left of me"
- -- BOC


-------- TML Message #1340 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1340
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 90 15:26:23 PDT
From: George William Herbert <gwh@soda>
Subject: whoops on merc. ticket prices

=hate to catch errors like this, but such are the dangers of emailing after
midnight.

The posting of estimating costs for mercenary tickets forgot simple things
like operational costs for the unit...ammo, food, etc.  In the example I gave,
presumeable the supporting nation would provide all that, so it ought to be
accurate.  However, if the mercenaries need to provide their own supplies, then
add Cr10 per person per day in food, and ammo costs (heavy combat, assume one
full load of ammo per person per day).  This is added in the initial costs
section, along with the payroll and maintenance costs.

*******************************************************************************
George William Herbert              JOAT For Hire: Anything, Anywhere: My Price
   UCB Naval Architecture undergrad: Engineering with a Bouyant Attitude :-)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Who?" the man managed.                    Whip me, Beat Me, Make me learn C...
"The Rastafarian Navy," Case said,         ++++++++++ gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu  OR
"...and all we want is a jack into your    ========== gwh@soda.berkeley.edu OR
custodial system." -neuromancer            """""""" maniac@garnet.berkeley.edu

-------- TML Message #1341 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1341
From: wilson m liaw <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: UK division
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 0:29:50 EDT

	Well, I don't know if HIWG has UK division. I do know one of the
memebers is from England. I'll see, if you don't hear from me in a week.
Send me e-mail to remind me. I'm VERY forgettful at times...


				Mac.

-------- TML Message #1342 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1342
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 09:33 EDT
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Got some questions for ya....

>Greetings and Salutations,
and halucinations.....

>  I am starting my first attempt at GMing MegaTraveller(well, actually, its
>my second attempt, the first bombed when everyone cancelled due to class
>pressures after the first nite of play :). If anyone has any tips for me,
>lets hear 'em.  I'm ready!

Make sure you have your ducks in a row.  Not knowing your players, I can't
predict how they will take to Traveller.  In our group, I am the only one who
has played other games than AD&D.  Most people are reluctant to learn a new
game system and it can be real hard to convince them that there are fun other
games.  The biggest problem here to watch out for is the reward system.  In
AD&D you get Gold, Magic, and Experience.  As you progress you get more hit
points.  Many AD&D people can't understand or accept the fact that your hit
points never go up, but maybe down.  They don't understand that you are
beginning adventuring experienced and now it is for fun.  You can't always use
techno-junk for magic because most of the techno-junk is purchasable somewhere.
This usually pushes the AD&D ref to use money as the main treasure.  You have
to get the players out of the "do go, get rewarded" mind set and make them
adventure just to have something to do after retiring.   It is probably the
hardest thing about Traveller.

>1.  Aging:  does it seem reasonable to you'uns that 3,000 years in the future
>            the point when aging starts to affect your performance is about the
>            same as it is now?

No RPG's rules are fixed.  Do what you think is rational.  If your universe has
longer lifespans then so be it.  From an actual "History of the Imperium" stand
point there was a long period of non-tech growth.  It is reasonable to assume
that medical sciences haven't progressed that far.  Anagatheics are expensive,
adictive and a real pain if you miss a dose.

As far as the rule goes, it is there to force the players to cut character
generation off at an early age.  If you allow them to stay in service until
they are 60 then you will have a boat full of Admirals and Generals with
Gun-10, Pilot-10, Computer-10 and so on.  Also as humans go, with the exception
of a few, Speed, Agility, Strength, and Endurance start dropping at around
25-30.  Now your athletes and those who workout more often are near the top end
of the scale.  So 38 is a bit of improvement over todays norms.  Like I said,
do what you want, you are the ref, but there is some more food for though.
Also, one other thing, if your players have played Traveller before, then they
are used to the rules as they are and you may not want to go make changes.

>2. Timeline:  I am not sure where I want to start my players WRT the
>            rebellion.  I could start them before, say about 1100, right
>            around the event, or somewhat after, say 1140 or so.  What have the
>            rest of you done as far as the timeline is concerned?

I have in the past tried to stay in sync with the Journal of the Traveller's
Aid Society (now Challenge).  1100 is about the time of the 5th frontier war
(near the end if memory serves).  If you are running a merchant campaign then
the post war-pre rebellion period would be more sutiable since the economy is
somewhat stable.  If it is going to be strong military then run it during the
war or the rebellion.  Your choice.  One thing to consider is where you are.  I
am not sure where those sectors are, but it takes a few years from the
assassination of Strephon to the break up to hit the Spinward Marches.

>3.  Place:  I am thinking of starting my players in either Zarushagar or
>            Reaver's Deep sector.  Are there official maps of these
>            sectors and if so, where can I find them?

The Official sector data is located on the pay service GEnie.  There are no
maps, but the UWP codes and stuff is there.

>   Thanx all (especially James for keeping this monster going!  :)
De Nada

>Captain Sir Michael Talmoth,  UPP:  BA5A8B

Cpt. Anton Devious, B89F98 (Ex. Marine 1Lt, now Cpt of my own boat)
- --
Rob Miracle              | Bitnet   : RWMIRA01@ULKYVX    CIS: 74216,3134
Programmer/Analyst-II    | INTERNET : rwmira01%ulkyvx.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu
University of Louisville | UUCP     : ...psuvax1!ulkyvx.bitnet!rwmira01

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1343 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1343
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: UWP data available on TML archive!!
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 10:22:33 PDT

Well guys (and gals), this ought to perk up your morning.  With the help
of Sunbane's sys. admin (Thanks Dan!), I've managed to get all of the
Imperial Sector UWPs that were available on the GEnie network put in
the TML Archive.  If you look in ~ftp/pub/traveller/sectors, you'll see
compressed data files for the following sectors:

   Alpha Crucis   Delphi         Gushemege      Reft Sector      Verge 
   Antares        Deneb          Hinterworlds   RiftSpan Reach   Vland 
   Core           Diaspora       Ley            Solomani Rim
   Corridor       Empty Quarter  Lishun         Spica
   Dagudashaag    Fornast        Massilia       Spinward Marches
   Daibei         Glimmerdrift   Old Expanses   Trojan Reach

There is also a pair of programs in a single Tar file (ssv.tar.Z) in the
same directory.  The first program is section.c.  By filtering each of
the sector UWP files thru it, 16 subsector output files will be produced
(labelled sec_A thru sec_P).  The second program is ssv.c.  This X-Windows
based program allows you to view the subsector graphically in a high-res
window on your UN*X, allows you to add political/cultural/military borders
interactively, and allows you to print the modified subsector to an XImage
file (ssv.xwd) which is suitable for output to a laser printer (via the
MIT xpr utility).  Both programs are written in C, and should run on
standard AT&T SysV UN*X.

Even if you don't have access to a UN*X platform, at least the sector
UWP files should prove useful.

As to the legality of disseminating these files, I got explicit permission
from Joe Fugate (of DGP) to make these files available to the TML.  Since
he originally posted them to the GEnie Traveller library archives, he has
final authority over their disposition and he said, "No problem" (in so
many words :-)).

One final note.  With the exception of (I think) 3 files (Deneb, Corridor,
and Massilia), all the data in these files is pre-shattered-Imperium.
This means that most of the allegiance codes will be wrong.  Also, with
the exception of the 3 aforementioned files, most system names are absent.
Only 'Hi Pop' systems are named in the other 23 sector files.

Well, that's it.  Here's all the data.  Go nuts!

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1344 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1344
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 17:43 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: Answers to some questions


On aging: this is one of my big gripes with the Traveller character
system, one only partially addressed by DGP in the Vilani'n'Vargr Ahoy!
book. The question isn't one of macroscale ("3000 years in the future"
don't mean diddly if society's collapsed for most of that time), but
of microscale (on Skivgik, you're lucky if you reach 35, but on Gloomph
if you die at 150 they bury you in a cradle). The trick isn't time 
passage but PERCEIVED time passage, i.e. technological advancement and
quality of lifestyle. I think the GDW folx did a global average of tech
levels for the Marches and used that to ballpark the aging stuff; when
more very-hi-tech worlds come into the equation the average age of a 
character should go up a lot with respect to "aging" thresholds. So I'm
considering a sliding scale based on tech level of birth, childhood etc.
(But this utterly ignores the primary reason for aging: killing off or
crippling characters that are getting too powerful. I'm getting soft in
my old age; I let people like Dow (hi Dow) run characters in their 40s.
In my cruel youth I never let anyone get past 34 and stay in the service;
it kept their skills and cash manageable.)

Timelines: Again, you're thinking of macroscale vs. microscale. The years
from 1100 to 1140 are a drop in the bucket w/r/t the history of Humaniti
(and a bare sneeze to Yaskoydray, wherever the hey HE is these days), but
on a character's level they constitute a huge timespan with a ton of good
history (including two wars, the Fifth Frontier War and the Rebellion) to
choose from. If you choose any time before 1117, you're not IN the MegaTrav
universe; you're in Trav Classic, with its VERY different assumptions of
how the Universe works. (And, I might add, the appropriate differences in
many of the rules. I'd hate to put a standard TravClassic character from
anywhere other than the Marches up against a well-hardened MegaTrav character.)
If you go as late as 1140, you'll be making it up as you go along, because
only the GDW and DGP crystal ball gazers know what's beyond 1121 at this point
(with one VITAL exception: the GDW game writers made a very big slip in the
MegaTrav rule books, one that gives away an important piece of future
history that's obvious once you know what to look for. But I won't tell. |-> ).
I'd advise sticking to the years right after the Rebellion's peak (1119 to
1120 to start with); the most material is available for that period.

Sectors: Talk to Mark Cook. Both sectors you've named have been fully
mapped with full UWPs for all systems.

metlay

-------- TML Message #1345 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1345
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Timeline
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 10:04:17 BST

EHT%PSUARCH.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu writes:

>2. Timeline:  I am not sure where I want to start my players WRT the
>            rebellion.  I could start them before, say about 1100, right
>            around the event, or somewhat after, say 1140 or so.  What have the
>            rest of you done as far as the timeline is concerned?

The 4th Frontier War ended in 1092 (I think; I'm not sure on this one).
The 5th Frontier War started in 1105 (I am sure of this one).
The 5th Frontier War ended in 1111.
Strephon was assassinated in 1116.

So, around 1100 they can still be playing a post-war scenario, or a run-up to
5th Frontier War scenario.  From 1105 to 1111 is fireworks time.  After 1111
is another post-war scenario.  From 1116 until news of the assassination
reaches your part of the universe is relatively quiet.  From that time on,
it's The End Of Civilisation As We Know It.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1346 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1346
Date: Thursday 21st June 1990 10:18:29 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Darrians

 
While we're on the subject of minor races, here's something to think about:
 
In issue #14 of the JTAS, the Darrians were described as averaging 1.6m tall.
 
In Alien Module 8 they are 2.0m tall.  They also seem to have acquired
sharply pointed ears.
 
There is only one logical conclusion that can be drawn from these
observations:  SOMEONE HAS BEEN STRETCHING THE DARRIANS BY THE EARS.
I wonder if this could be a secret weapon of the Sword Worlds -- forget
the secret of the Star Trigger, and quake in fear at the prospect of the
dreaded Ear Stretcher. *gulp*
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:

-------- TML Message #1347 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1347
Date: Thursday 21st June 1990 10:15:31 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>
Subject: The Revised Minor Races List

 
Here is the revised Minor Races List.  I managed to unearth about 30 new
races that weren't on the Miller list.  Admittedly, a few of them are
extinct, but then Miller did include the Loeskalth in his own list.
 
If anyone can supply additions or corrections I would be pleased to hear
from you.
 
(H) after a name indicates a human race.
(E) after a name indicates an extinct race.
~~~~~~~~~~
Addaxur              //Tienspevnekr                               am4
Ael Yael             Jaeyelya                                     jtas15
Ahetaowa             Ahetaowa/Ihearu/Ealiyasiyw(2604)             bk8
Answerin (H)         Answerin/Parsi/Vland(0431)                   td5,mta1
Bolth                /Zachrisson/Fulani [possibly]                vr
Bosaki               //Far Frontiers                              rog
Brinn                Kateri/Sinta/Corridor(2238)                  td12
Bwaps (Newts)        Marhaban/Lentuli/Empty Quarter(0426)         jtas11
Cafadans (H)         Cafad/Sashrakusha/Corridor(3135)             td3
Capital Dwellers (H) Capital/Core/Core(2118)                      td9
Chirpers             [various]                                    am5,adv2
Darrians (H)         Darrian/Darrian/Spinward Marches(0627)       am8,jtas14
Dolphins             Terra/Sol/Solomani Rim(1827)                 td13,boj2
Dynchia              Melantris/Melantris/Leonidae                 jtas24
Ebokin               Yebab/Aramis/Spinward Marches(3002)          tta
Eliyoh               ?                                            td9
Eshaar Ashah         Eshaar/Taemerlyk/Far Frontiers(1826)         obe
Eslyat               Elliador/Trelyn/Vanguard Reaches(3110)       vr
G'naak (E)           Kirur/(0505)Thirty/Ruupiin                   am2
Geonee (H)           //Massilia                                   mtie,mta1
Girug'kagh           Kagh'kir/Kirarurr!ka/Ruupiin                 jtas21
Githiaskio           Githiaski/Darthe/Stars End                   jtas16
Gl'lu                Kubishush/Inar/Deneb(0917)                   td1
Gniivi               [Hinterworlds or Leonidae sectors]           ch39
Gogs                 Mirayn/Jungleblut/Far Frontiers(2134)        lsr
Gurvin               Ofilaq//Folgore                              am7
H'Oskhikhil          Storm/Riftdeep/Reavers Deep(1404)            td16,tsg
Happhirva            Rejhappur//Reavers Deep                      ft2
Hasst'kor (E)        Prt'//Spica                                  ch26
Hlanssai             Vrirhlanz [Vargr Extents]                    jtas22
Huosua               Iraisafeie/Tohai/Ealiyasiyw(1527)            td18
Iasat                Zurr                                         tea,wbh
Ilthara              Drexilthar/Drexilthar/Reavers Deep           pgd
Irdu                 Ishirdu/Two Worlds/Corridor(0338)            td3
Irhadre (H)          //Lishun                                     am8
Ithklur              Tryylin//Extolian                            am7
J'aadje              Gaajpadje/Ea/Reavers Deep(1124)              dadv6
Jenda                [Council of Leh Perash]                      ch39
Jessa                Galatea/(0808)Inverness/Far Frontiers        rog
Jgd-Il-Jagd          [Coreward edge of Imperium]                  jtas17
Kebkh                Deyis II/Khipge/Zarushagar(0917)             rgk
Kidulans             Kidulaar//Fornast(0819)                      gc
Kirrixurian (E)      Kirur/(0505)Thirty/Ruupiin                   am2
Kolzar               Wimorel/Anakod/Vland(3129)                   td5,mta1
Lalendrians          Lalendriss//K'righeek                        ch26
Lamura Gav           Cikuek/Pendiash Ginshar/Hinterworlds(2907)   ch39
Lamura Teg (H)       Cikuek/Pendiash Ginshar/Hinterworlds(2907)   ch39
Languljigee          Lajanjigal/Drexilthar/Reavers Deep           pgd
Larianz              Byret/Mora/Spinward Marches(2523)            smc
Llellewyloly         Junidy/Aramis/Spinward Marches(3202)         tta
Loeskalth (H)(E)     //Gushemege                                  mtie,tsr,fsr
Mal'Gnar (H)         Mal'Gnar/Mal'Gnar Radiant/Beyond(3002)       beyond
Minlad               Kaiid/Shuna/Lishun(0621)                     td6,wbh
Murians              //Vanguard Reaches [Altarean Confederation]  vr
Mwawmbijebe          Kualakhtaea                                  ar
Ojehshodu            Neghu Oug/The Narrows/Corridor(2804)         td18
Ormine               /Akhlare/Dark Nebula                         td17
Orpheides            Orphee/New Islands/Reft(1429)                adv5
Prt'                 Prt'//Spica                                  ch26
Qiceteu (E)          Ilma/Akumid/Vland(1523)                      mta1
Sabmiqys             Sabmiqys//Antares(2117)                      ch28
Saie                 /Caledon/Reavers Deep                        td16
Satha                Galatea/(0808)Inverness/Far Frontiers        rog
Shriekers            567-908/District 268/Spinward Marches(1031)  adv10
Sred*Ni              I'Sred*Ni Nest/I'Sred*Ni Heptad/Beyond(1923) beyond
Stalkers             //Hinterworlds [Outcasts Whispering Sky]     ch39
Suerrat (H)          Ilelish//Ilelish(2907)                       mtie,ch43
Tahavi               Tahaver/Vland/Vland(2017)                    td5,mta1
Thorellians          Thorell/Nicosia/Old Expanses(0231)           td12
Ulane                Ul/Earle/Dark Nebula(0603)                   td17
Vegans               Muan Gwi/Vega/Solomani Rim(1717)             mtie,sup11
Virushi              Virshash/Urlaqqash/Reavers Deep(2724)        jtas12
Xapoqi               Xapoqoz/Sashrakusha/Corridor(3131)           td18
Za'tachk             Loza'tch//Wrenton                            am7
[unknown name]       Hlao/Kilrai'/Dark Nebula(1719)               td17
[unknown name]       Luupim [somewhere in the 2000 Worlds]        am2
~~~~~~~~~~
 
Index to references:
  adv#     Traveller Adventure
  am#      Alien Module
  ar       Alien Realms
  beyond   Beyond (Paranoia Press)
  bk#      Traveller Book
  boj#     Best of the Journal of the Travellers Aid Society
  ch#      Challenge
  dadv#    Traveller Double Adventure
  fsr      Fate of the Sky Raiders (FASA)
  ft#      Far Traveller (FASA)
  gc       Grand Census (DGP)
  jtas#    Journal of the Travellers Aid Society
  lsr      Legend of the Sky Raiders (FASA)
  mta#     MegaTraveller Alien (DGP)
  mtie     MegaTraveller Imperial Encyclopedia
  obe      Ordeal By Eshaar (FASA)
  pgd      Pilot's Guide to Drexilthar Subsector (Gamelords)
  rgk      Referee's Gaming Kit (DGP)
  rog      Rescue On Galatea (FASA)
  smc      Spinward Marches Campaign
  sup#     Traveller Supplement
  td#      Travellers Digest (DGP)
  tea      The Early Adventures (DGP)
  tsg      The Space Gamer (series)
  tsr      Trail of the Sky Raiders (FASA)
  tta      The Traveller Adventure
  vr       Vanguard Reaches (Paranoia Press)
  wbh      World Builder's Handbook (DGP)
~~~~~~~~~~
 
That's all.  Have a nice drandir.
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:

-------- TML Message #1348 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1348
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: UWP data available in the TML archives!!
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 18:08:22 MET DST

I'm quite sure I speak for all of us when I say:

   THANKS A MILLION, MARK!!!

> One final note.  With the exception of (I think) 3 files (Deneb, Corridor,
> and Massilia), all the data in these files is pre-shattered-Imperium.

That is, from my point of view, even better, since the (hopefully) updated ones
is said to come out some time this year.
I'll give these files to the playes and keep the updated ones for myself :-)

- -bertil-

PS, Ehum, what is the (preferrably ip number) address for the TML archives?
    <embarresed grin> :-). I assume that it is anon ftp?
- -- 

-------- TML Message #1349 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1349
Subject: TML Archives
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 16:06:31 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


I apologize for being so busy lately.  When one automates a mailing list
to the extent I have, it is easy to ignore it for a while.

There are three ways to get archives:

FTP Archive Site:
	All the Traveller Archives (filled Bundles and Packages) are
	available via ftp from sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12).
	A sample session follows (lines that a user would type on
	are marked with a "*", and commentary begins with a "#"):

    *	shell> ftp 129.100.4.12		#begin the ftp session
	Connected to 129.100.4.12.
	220 sunbane FTP server (SunOS 4.0) ready.
    *	Name (129.100.4.12:dan):anonymous   #prompts for your id, but type
					    #anonymous for archives
	331 Guest login ok, send ident as password.
    *	Password: 		#type yourlogin@yourhost.xx.xx here -
    				#echoing is disabled
	230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.
    *	ftp> binary		#set transfer type to binary
	200 Type set to I.
    *	ftp> cd pub/traveller	#chdir to the Traveller area
	250 CWD command successful.
    *	ftp> get bun01.Z	#file name assumed to be same on your host
	150 Binary data connection for bun01.Z (129.100.4.51,2328)
	    (20480 bytes).
	226 Binary Transfer complete.
	local: bun01.Z remote: bun01.Z
	20480 bytes received in .34 seconds (59 Kbytes/s)
				#repeat get command as desired
    *	ftp> bye		#terminate the ftp session
	221 Goodbye.
    *	shell> uncompress bun01.Z	#uncompress the bundle

	The files README and TOC provide a brief/detailed summary of the
	contents of the archive.
	
	The site is managed solely by the FTP Site Coordinator:
	dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin).  The University of Western
	Ontario is not responsible for the materials and opinions stored
	in the archives.

Automated Archive Service: archive-server@joshua.atherton.com
	Mail to this address is read by a program which sends automated
	replies.  Almost all of the Traveller Mailing List traffic since
	September 1, 1989, is available from this program.  For more
	information, send a message to the address above with the text
	"help" (on the subject line or first line of the mail message),
	and it will explain to you how to use it.  You can reach the
	human who administrates this service by mailing to
        archive-manager@joshua.atherton.com, or (in a pinch) to
        joshua@atherton.com (Josh Levy).  In UUCP land use
        decwrl!athertn!archive-server, hpda!athertn!archive-server, or
        sun!athertn!archive-server, (note the ommission of the letter
        "o" in the UUCP format).  Archive-server can be replaced with
        archive-manager or joshua in all of the addresses.

Human-run Semi-Automated Archive Service:
		traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
	I maintain an archive of every message ever sent to the mailing
	list.  On a time-available basis, I will recover old articles
	for you and resend them to you by direct mail.  I can also send
	you an Archive Table-of-Contents so you can pick and choose
	which messages look interesting.

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

-------- TML Message #1350 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1350
Subject: Gamemaster '90
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 90 14:24:35 MDT
From: rona@hpdml92.boi.hp.COM

   We're having a convention in Boise!

   Gamemaster '90 will be held from 8AM-11PM on October 20th at
the Student Union Building at Boise State University.  Among other
events we'll be featuring a 

   *********** MEGATRAVELLER TOURNAMENT ****************               

   "Antares Down", written by Philip Athans and will be run by 
none other than Joe Fugate and Gary Thomas of Digest Group 
Publications.   ^^^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^^^

   This tournament, written exclusively for Gamemaster '90
will also be the official RPGA MegaTraveller Tournament of GenCon 
1990.  Well..., maybe they _were_ thinking a little bit about GenCon
when they put it together. 

   Also, Gary Thomas will be giving a seminar on how to write and
be published for RPGs.

   Of course there will also be, AD&D, GURPS Fantasy, board games...

and... a GURPS Space/Cyberpunk tournament based on the film "Total
Recall".   (I'm co-writing this one.) 

   If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll help you with 
the details.  I might even be able to arrange a place to stay if
the demand isn't too high.  I realize that for most of you, airfare
to Boise is prohibitive, but for those of you on the West Coast
or Mountain States, maybe this could work out.

        Ron Abramson   email: rona@hpdml92.HP.COM
                      tel: 1-206-323-4293


-------- TML Message #1351 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1351
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Other sector UWPs
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 90 11:46:23 PDT

>> One final note.  With the exception of (I think) 3 files (Deneb, Corridor,
>> and Massilia), all the data in these files is pre-shattered-Imperium.
>
>That is, from my point of view, even better, since the (hopefully) updated
>ones is said to come out some time this year.
>I'll give these files to the playes and keep the updated ones for myself :-)

Actually, it didn't occur to me that folks might PREFER the UWP sector data
from the Classic Traveller period over the MT version.  You see, I 'hand-
cranked' the post-assassination data for Deneb and Corridor sectors (which
is where my campaign is taking place) from articles in Traveller's Digest
issues #18 and #19.  Also, the GEnie library had TWO archives for Massilia
sector: one with the 'old' data and one with the 'new' data.

So anyway, if there is enough interest from you TML'ers, I'll go back to
GEnie and get the 3 original sector UWP files for Deneb, Corridor and
Massilia.

Just let me know.

Later,

        "Jump-6 means never having to say, 'I'm sorry'."
                                        - Anon. Far Trader Captn.
        "All this for money? You're
         just a common thief."
                "I am an *exceptional* thief,
                 Ms. Genero, and you should
                 consider being nicer to me
                 since I'm about to move up
                 to kidnapping."
                        - DIEHARD

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1352 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1352
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 90 02:55:38 PDT
From: gwh%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@lilac.berkeley.edu
Subject: the subsector view program from the archive.

i just tried to compile this, and got 'several' thousand lines of error 
messages.  are other people compiling this successfully? [email replies are
fine].

- -george
 ==    George William Herbert   ==   I support Open-Access Computing! UCB OCF 
========== JOAT for Hire: ========= ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ==Anything, Anywhere, My Price.==   Quantum Mechanics can explain everything
  ==   gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu    ==  except Madonna, Flame Wars, and NASA's space
   ==  ucbvax!lilac!ocf!gwh   ==     Policy.  We're working on the first two...

-------- TML Message #1353 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1353
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Other sector UWP's
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 90 14:34:27 MET DST

> You see, I 'hand-
> cranked' the post-assassination data for Deneb and Corridor sectors (which
> is where my campaign is taking place) from articles in Traveller's Digest
> issues #18 and #19.

'Handcranked' as in typing it in manually? Sheesh! I get tired even thinking
about it!

> So anyway, if there is enough interest from you TML'ers, I'll go back to
> GEnie and get the 3 original sector UWP files for Deneb, Corridor and
> Massilia.

I'll manage without it. I'll just replace all the fancy alligance codes with
the old standard 'Im' :-)

BTW, Do you know if there is any other difference between the pre- and post- 
assassination data than the alligance codes? Changes in UWP tend to be few
and a long time between, but I guess that a few planets might have gotten
changes in Gov and Pop.

- -bertil-
- -- 

-------- TML Message #1354 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1354
Date: Monday 25th June 1990 09:13:26 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Date of the Fifth Frontier War

 
> The 5th Frontier War started in 1105 (I am sure of this one).
 
Funny, I was convinced it started in 1107.
 
METLAY ????!!!!
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:

-------- TML Message #1355 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1355
Subject: Sheepish Grin and "Hi there"...
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 90 19:18:47 PDT
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!agora.hf.intel.com!richard@tessi.UUCP (Richard Johnson)

Hi everybody.  Finally made it to the bottom of the mailbox.
Started about two weeks ago (shortly after Mark called.)

Glad to see you had the good sense to have a party while
the GM was away.  :-)  

I suspect that few of us are actually prepared to re-boot
the game just now, so I'k like to table it until around
September or so, when folks start to get back to school,
and (at least it seems right now) that my schedule will 
adjust to some sense of normalcy.

- ----------------------
Other things:

Got my pilot's license in May.  Huge :-)
Landing a *little, slow* plane is like trying to parallel
park your car at 60mph--I can't even imagine trying something
silly like high-speed space shuttle passes.

I have a copy of the Zhodani alien module.  Anyone want
to bid on it?

- ----------------------------
Thanks again for hanging in there.  It's good to be back,
if only part time.

Richard Johnson

	 richard@agora.hf.intel.com		


-------- TML Message #1356 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1356
From: "Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: (1354) Date of the Fifth Frontier War
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 90 22:53:44 EST

 In Archive-Message-Number 1354 Alan Huscroft writes:
 >
 >> The 5th Frontier War started in 1105 (I am sure of this one).
 > 
 >Funny, I was convinced it started in 1107.

     Guess what?  You're right.  I have issue 9 (the "War Issue") of the
Journal right here in front of me, and the dateline on the Traveller
News Service war announcement is 187-1107.  From Regina, of course.  ;-)


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu  /  USENET:  pur-ee!gn.ecn.purdue.edu!woodsb
USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163
PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)


-------- TML Message #1357 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1357
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Mercenary, Mercenarier, Mercenariest.
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 90 16:48:21 MET DST

I was reading the thread about Mercenaries, and some questions struck me.
Being a generally slow and lazy person, I have not managed to write anything
until now, but here it is:

1. Those darn repatriation bonds.
  The olde book 'Mercenary' talked about 'Repatriation Bonds'. This was made up
to be the saviour of every merc that was stranded on a (hostile?) world because
the employing government lost the war and ceased to exist. It was defined as 
'money held in escrew by a third party' (probably Hortalez or Zirunkarish) that
was supposed to be spent upon mid-passage to some system of the merc's choise
(defined beforehand, supposedly).
  What I realized when my players decided to employ two squads of merc's was
that the amount of Cr's needed to even transport those two squads one jump, 
was far larger than the total salary and bonus of the entire unit! And several
jumps was totally out of the question.
  There is not many countries in desperate need of a merc unit that can afford
to pay several times 8kCr per person in the merc unit. The fact that the money
is't lost weighs light when the country itself might  not be around to make use
of the refunded money. They would probably be better off buying weapons for the
money instead of letting them mould in a locked account at Hortalez et Cie's :-)

2. Who exacly can hire a merc unit?
  It is hard to imagine that the Imperium let's every Tom, Dick, and Norris hire
a band of armed soldiers for some mission that certainly will require that laws
is to be broken. If 'Union of Vranx' wants to invade it's neighbour on the 
balcanized planet, the 'Uurk Federation', to capture their resources, they'll
probably going to break a whole lot of local laws in the 'Federation', yet, this
seems to be a perfectly ok use of mercs.
  What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock wants to
knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.
  "Oh no, officer, We are just the Dalton brothers, and we're a Merc unit!
Look here: here is our mercenary ticket about OK Corral, and here is our 
repatriation bonds."
(Reservations for lack of knowledge about the history of the west :-)
  
  One possible answer to this is that the Imperium don't bother with groundling
conflicts unless they break the 'Imperial Rules of War' that talks about 
'Major economic damage to the region'and 'Excessive extraplanetary involvement'.
  
  By that line of reasoning, travelling to Regina to knock over a bank would be
out, (At least you wouldn't get away with calling it a merc ticket :-) on the
grounds of 'Extraplanetary involvement'. (Remember? *travel* to Regina :-)
Likewise would knocking over the Regina Gold Depository, (Because of 'Major
economic damage to the region'). But knocking over a local branch on your
home-planet *would* be ok by this reasoning, and since that usually don't 
occur every two weeks on all planets, this line of reasoning is wrong.

  Second possible answer: Only governments and similar organizations is allowed
to hire mercs: Probably wrong for several reasons, foremost that several 
MegaCorps have employed mercs repeatedly. It might lead to some amusing 
scenarios, though.
  "Hi! We are the Splutifaxian Air Force and we're robbing this bank!"
  "Splutifax? Never heard of it! When was it founded?"
  "About seven minutes ago!"

  Third possible answer: Only governments and companies and similar 
organizations is allowed to hire merc's: 
  "Hi! We're from Harry's bar and grill and we're robbing..."
  Ok then, probably not.

  Fourth possible answer: Only if you have friends in high places (Hi Brzk!) 
or if your opponent lacks such friends, are you allowed to hire mercs,
or rather:
  If you don't have those friends and hire some merc's to knock over the Bank
of Regina, you are going to get a early morning visit from your 
14 (not-so-friendly) neighbourhood plasma-gun-armed marines.


  For some reason, I'd put my money on Answer #4, How about you, folks?

- -bertil-
- -- 
"This .signature is hijacked! Fly me to Helsinki!"
"Fly???"
"Ok, I'll settle for e-mail then!"

-------- TML Message #1358 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1358
From: "C. Harald Koch" <chk@alias>
Subject: Re: (1355) Sheepish Grin and "Hi there"...
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 90 10:39:09 EDT

> Got my pilot's license in May.  Huge :-)
> Landing a *little, slow* plane is like trying to parallel
> park your car at 60mph--I can't even imagine trying something
> silly like high-speed space shuttle passes.

When doing high-speed space shuttle passes, you have some pretty
sophisticated computer equipment helping you out.

This kind of system exists now; certain combat aircraft and helicopters
have a 'ground-hugging' autopilot which attempts to travel at a fixed height
above the terrain.  According to sources it works rather well. No human
could do it though; there is too much information and reactions need to be
very fast.

Similar (but much more advanced) computer systems no doubt exist in most
space shuttles, particularly combat drop-shuttles...

- -- 
C. Harald Koch  VE3TLA                Alias Research, Inc., Toronto ON Canada
chk%alias@csri.utoronto.ca      chk@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu      chk@chk.mef.org
"Open the Zamboni! We're coming out!" - Kathrin Garland and Anson James, 2299


-------- TML Message #1359 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1359
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 90 17:40 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: PBEM tabling and Fifth War Dates


Richard, I think you're making the right choice. I don't mind tabling
the PBEM until September. I do advise, though, that the infrastructure
be left in place, and that players who're still here continue with
dialogue and occasional info exchange. After all, we have a while to
get to know one another....|->

As for the Fifth Frontier War, it began with the invasion of Regina
from the Ruie system in 1107, and ended with a cease-fire in mid-1110
and an official armistice on 001-1111. It was the second shortest of
the Frontier Wars. The earliest adventure dates used in any official 
GDW products were in 1105, for Annic Nova and The Traveller Adventure.

metlay

-------- TML Message #1360 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1360
From: "Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: (1357) Mercenary, Mercenarier, Mercenariest.
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 90 2:45:00 EST


 In Archive-Message-Number 1357, Bertil Jonell writes:
 >
 >1. Those darn repatriation bonds.
 >  The olde book 'Mercenary' talked about 'Repatriation Bonds'. This
 >was made up to be the saviour of every merc that was stranded on a
 >(hostile?) world because the employing government lost the war and

     Well, yeah, hostile.  People you've been *shooting at* don't
usually think friendly thoughts about you, especially when you're on
the losing side in a war.

 >ceased to exist. It was defined as 'money held in escrew by a third
 >party' (probably Hortalez or Zirunkarish) that was supposed to be
 >spent upon mid-passage to some system of the merc's choise (defined
 >beforehand, supposedly).

     Usually one system for the entire unit, seeing as how mercenary
tickets are only intended for combat-ready, organized units (individual
mercenaries are responsible to their commander, who in turn deals with
the employer).

 >  What I realized when my players decided to employ two squads of
 >merc's was that the amount of Cr's needed to even transport those two
 >squads one jump, was far larger than the total salary and bonus of
 >the entire unit! And several jumps was totally out of the question.
 >  There is not many countries in desperate need of a merc unit that
 >can afford to pay several times 8kCr per person in the merc unit. The
 >fact that the money is't lost weighs light when the country itself
 >might  not be around to make use of the refunded money. They would
 >probably be better off buying weapons for the money instead of
 >letting them mould in a locked account at Hortalez et Cie's :-)

     That's the whole point of a repatriation bond.  If you lose (and,
consequently, are unable to pay your mercenaries), the mercenary unit
can still get off-world (and, presumably, find work elsewhere--they
hope) using banked money that you no longer have any use for (since you
no longer exist as an organization).  If you win, then, great.  Reclaim
the bond, use it to pay off your mercenaries, then take what's left and
use it for a much-deserved trip to the famous vacation world of Riviera.
You've won the war--now it's Miller time...  ;-)

 >2. Who exacly can hire a merc unit?
 >  It is hard to imagine that the Imperium let's every Tom, Dick, and
 >Norris hire a band of armed soldiers for some mission that certainly
 >will require that laws is to be broken. If 'Union of Vranx' wants to
 >invade it's neighbour on the balcanized planet, the 'Uurk
 >Federation', to capture their resources, they'll probably going to
 >break a whole lot of local laws in the 'Federation', yet, this seems
 >to be a perfectly ok use of mercs.

     Since mercenaries are *soldiers*, they are usually hired for the
purpose of warfare (less often for use as cadre or military police/
occupation troops).  The people who hire them are either "true" (de
jure) governments, de facto governments (such as MegaCorps), or
would-be governments (like rebels).  Notice that all these potential
employers are fairly large organizations, usually with easy access to
the kind of wealth that is needed to hire even a modest-sized
mercenary unit.  Remember, decent troops don't come cheap.

 >  What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock
 >wants to knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.

     Easy.  It's the same as the difference between legitimate warfare
and commiting a criminal act.  Fighting a war is *not* the same as
robbing a bank, either legally or practically.

 >  One possible answer to this is that the Imperium don't bother with
 >groundling conflicts unless they break the 'Imperial Rules of War'
 >that talks about 'Major economic damage to the region' and 'Excessive
 >extraplanetary involvement'.

     Right.  As long as you don't use any nuclear explosives and keep
your invasions *quick* and relatively clean, the Imperium doesn't care.

 >  Second possible answer: Only governments and similar organizations
 >is allowed to hire mercs: Probably wrong for several reasons,
 >foremost that several MegaCorps have employed mercs repeatedly.

     Since when are MegaCorps *not* governments?  Within their (usually
extensive) on-planet holdings they have the force of a government, and
can still get off world (and, presumably, find work elsewhere--they
in the case where they own an entire planet (or system) then they most
definitely *are* a government.  Anyone who can command the kind of
wealth and power that a MegaCorp represents definitely qualifies for
membership in the Major Players Club.


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163
PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)


-------- TML Message #1361 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1361
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Mercs
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 90 10:17:51 BST

Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se> writes:

> 2. Who exacly can hire a merc unit?
> ...
>		   If 'Union of Vranx' wants to invade it's neighbour on the 
> balcanized planet, the 'Uurk Federation', to capture their resources, they'll
> probably going to break a whole lot of local laws in the 'Federation', yet, this
> seems to be a perfectly ok use of mercs.
>   What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock wants to
> knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.

As far as the Imperium is concerned, none.  The planets in question look after
their own defence.  If the "Rules of War" are broken, the Imperium intervenes.
I suspect the Vranxian invasion is more likely to break the Rules than the
bank job.

>   One possible answer to this is that the Imperium don't bother with groundling
> conflicts unless they break the 'Imperial Rules of War' that talks about 
> 'Major economic damage to the region'and 'Excessive extraplanetary involvement'.
>   
>   By that line of reasoning, travelling to Regina to knock over a bank would be
> out, (At least you wouldn't get away with calling it a merc ticket :-) on the
> grounds of 'Extraplanetary involvement'. (Remember? *travel* to Regina :-)

It's the "excessive" bit that decides it.  For a start, Hickok's crowd are in
violation of Regina's laws on possession of weapons the moment they leave the
starport.  If they resist arrest, to the extent of killing off any police that
try, they may wind up having the local army to deal with.  If they have the
firepower to wipe out the police and army, that's excessive involvement, and
they have the Imperium to deal with.

>   Fourth possible answer: Only if you have friends in high places (Hi Brzk!) 
> or if your opponent lacks such friends, are you allowed to hire mercs,
> or rather:
>   If you don't have those friends and hire some merc's to knock over the Bank
> of Regina, you are going to get a early morning visit from your 
> 14 (not-so-friendly) neighbourhood plasma-gun-armed marines.

This is certainly one factor; another is that the Imperium just doesn't have
the resources to police every one of its worlds.  Each planet is responsible
for its own defence and police.  The Imperial forces come in when things get
serious, e.g. Zhodani invasion, TL12 mercs robbing TL4 planets, etc.  The
Imperium officially doesn't like anyone hiring mercs, because it doesn't want
fighting within its borders.  Unofficially, a quick military campaign is
usually preferable to a long economic one, such as sanctions, trade embargoes
etc.  The "Rules of War" have never been written down, and don't "officially"
exist, because if they did they would indicate Imperial approval of internal
wars.  Basically, a mercenary unit has to use common-sense, and so does its
employer.  If their idea of common-sense differs from that of the local
governor, the Imperium intervenes.  "Excessive off-world involvement",
"economic damage" are not precisely defined, mainly so a merc unit can't
say "But Rorke's Raiders did it two months ago on Roup, and you didn't bother
them".  There is one exception.  If anyone uses nuclear weapons, the Imperial
forces squash them.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- End of TML Messages --------


-------- TML Message #1362 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1362
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Dates - oops!
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 90 9:58:34 BST

This date of 1107 for the start of the Fifth Frontier War is the "official"
one - unofficially, our players were doing unpleasant things, and it took the
Zhodani 2 years to respond. :-)

Seriously though, scrap my previous list.  In future, I post with the book by
my side - like now.  From the old Library Data A-M supplement:

The Fourth Frontier War started in 1082, and finished in 1084.  Also known as
the False War.  The armistice was signed before instructions for conduct of
the war got from the capitals to the front lines.

The Fifth Frontier War lasted from 1107 to 1111.

This bit is from a Traveller's Digest magazine; Strephon was assassinated in
1116.

Now for the question.  The final battle of the Fourth Frontier War was the
Battle of Two Suns, so called because it took place somewhere between Yres
and Menorb (see Library Data A-M, and Adventure 1 - Kinunir).  What were two
battlefleets doing in interstellar space?  (Apart from blowing holes in each
other! :-)  I thought the usual procedure was, go to the enemy's system,
clobber any of his ships you find there, and then invade the planet(s) of
interest.  Meeting an enemy fleet halfway between two systems just doesn't
happen, unless they've previously agreed to do so and agreed on co-ordinates
of where to meet.  "Sir, Admiral Zdiebeshatl calls you a good-for-nothing
dead-head, and challenges you and this fleet to a duel at the co-ordinates
in this flight plan datapack."

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1363 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1363
Date:     Wed, 27 Jun 90 14:10:07 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  New Member

Greetings and Salutations to All,

     As a new subscriber to this list, I want to dive right in and see some
action.  If anyone is desperately searching for old Traveeler products I have 
a fair sampling of odd things (The Beyond, Vanguard Reached, 50 Starbases, all
Alien modules, etc.) that I would be willing to copy and send out.  I've also
got 40 or 50 new system vehicle designs ranging in size from motorcycles to
battleships I'd be happy to upload.
     On the subject of errata:  Has a third official errata sheet been issued
yet?  I've still got two or three pages of notes left over after the second one
was issued (that I forwarded to DGP).

                                              Rob Dean


-------- TML Message #1364 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1364
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 90 03:35 EST
From: "RITVAX is gone, so send mail here!" <JEDI@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu>
Subject: Traveller/MegaTraveller Gaming...


    If there is anyone in the Rochester, NY area who is running, wants to
    run in, or is interested in helping organize a game of Traveller or
    MegaTraveller, please send me E-mail.  I have MegaTraveller, and have
    played Traveller, and you like to get into or run a campaign.  I would
    prefer to play, but will be the GM if necessary.  Thanks.  LaTeR.

- ---
\  _		Gary Schreiber			| Kelson Alaric
 \ |		241 Oakdale Dr.			| Barrony of Thescorre
  \|		Rochester, NY 1461		| Aethelmearc, EK
EMAIL: jedi@drycas.bitnet  OR  jedi@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu

-------- TML Message #1365 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1365
Date:     Thu, 28 Jun 90 9:10:51 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Battle of Two Suns

With Regard to Adrian Hurt's commentary on the battle of Two Suns:
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now for the question.  The final battle of the Fourth Frontier War was the
Battle of Two Suns, so called because it took place somewhere between Yres
and Menorb (see Library Data A-M, and Adventure 1 - Kinunir).  What were two
battlefleets doing in interstellar space?  (Apart from blowing holes in each
other! :-)  I thought the usual procedure was, go to the enemy's system,
clobber any of his ships you find there, and then invade the planet(s) of
interest.  Meeting an enemy fleet halfway between two systems just doesn't
happen, unless they've previously agreed to do so and agreed on co-ordinates
of where to meet.  "Sir, Admiral Zdiebeshatl calls you a good-for-nothing
dead-head, and challenges you and this fleet to a duel at the co-ordinates
in this flight plan datapack."
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      In my opinion this could not have happened, and is really an artifact
of an earlier conception of the game.  The particular entry he cites was
culled from Adventure Module 1 (The Kinunir), which was issued before High Guard
came out (I think), and before Trillion Credit Squadron (certainly).  The mere
fact that that module describes a 1250ton vessel as a "cruiser" compared to
the later 50,000ton+ cruisers, and equips it with a black glode marks it as,
shall we say, a trifle obsolete.  (However--the Traveller Adventure includes
a battle as a deep space refueling rendevous).

                                            Rob Dean

-------- TML Message #1366 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1366
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 90 14:11 EST
From: "Bruce T. Ritchie, P.S.C." <BRUCER%PSC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject: Comments, and an Idea..

        I guess the summer suspension of the PBEM game is OK with me,
BUT I will be looking forward to it resuming in the fall! I want a
crack at those "Ringworld natives"! (Hmmmmmmm...wonder if they're
shaped like hula-hoops?)

     In the mean time, I had a bit of a `brainstorm' the other day. I
know, I can here you thinking "Oh God, what now". Read on.........

     In our current MT game we are always running into (and needing to
generate!) interesting `characters' (NPC's that is). Wouldn't it be
great if there were a whole bunch of these listed somewhere? What if
we all share with the list some of our favorite characters (which
could be our current NPC's or PC's!)? I would think that Name, UPP,
home world, current status & location (and date), and a very brief bio
might be enough. I'll give you an example below.

        I'm very curious what y'all think of this!??! Or, has it been
done? Let's hear.
                           *** Example ***
                        Dr. Zbar Ramem Norin
UPP-7A5AD8      Homeworld-Darrian       Race-Darrian
Age (as of 190-1120) Psionics-Tested, has none.       Currently a PC
Career-Scientist (PhD in Multi-Sophant Archeology)

Primary Skills: JOAT=4; Linguistics=4; Robotics=3; History=2;
Engineering=2; Forensic, VaccSuit, Electronics, SensorOps, GunCombat,
Instruction all=1; GravVehicle, GunTurret, Intrusion, Leader,
Navigation= 0.

Specials: Speaks fluent Darrian (of course), Galangic, Vargar, Aslan,
and some Droyne. Carries a break-down neural pistol (only weapon) which
takes approx. 2 combat rounds to assemble. Personable, with a slight
tendency toward practical jokes...

Bio: Educated mostly on Darrian. Finished PhD at University of Regina.
Title of dissertation:"Interpretations of `Tech Level-10' by Four
Divergent Races, with Racial Philosophy Seen as the Prime Underlying
Variable". Mentor: Dr. Ethan Thomas. Was stranded in Corridor due to
the unrest following Strephon's assassination. Signed on with a
para-military group as `science officer', then was hired by Systems
Enterprises, a small specialty `recovery' company based on Regina.
Current Special intrests: Ancients, and their technology; Robotic
design and construction; staying alive.

                                Well?
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
        Bruce T. Ritchie (Brucer@PSC.Bitnet) AKA: Zben Blaine
        Plymouth State College
        Plymouth, N.H. USA
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
"The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground,
                              and miss.
                                Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

-------- TML Message #1367 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1367
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 90 8:58:35 BST
From: Lesley Grant <lgrant@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: American SF magazines

	I have just had the dubious pleasure of having a story rejected
by Interzone for "not being science fiction enough" (sheesh). The last
British magazine I sold a story to went under before coming to publication.
	Can anyone out there recommend American SF magazines that
publish fiction? Please E-Mail replies.

					Jo Jaquinta
					lgrant@maths.tcd.ie

- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
What is our assignment, Friend Computer?
: To destory all traitors occupying apartment 99203/34
In that case, I think we might need something more substantial than a tu-tu?
- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

-------- TML Message #1368 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1368
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re:  New Member
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 90 13:28:10 MET DST

In '(1363)  New Member', "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil> writes:
> Greetings and Salutations to All,

Welcome!

> got 40 or 50 new system vehicle designs ranging in size from motorcycles to
> battleships I'd be happy to upload.

  Go ahead, by all means, go ahead! When the time to design a vehicle approach
one hour, 50 designs are a treasure!

- -bertil-

-------- TML Message #1369 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1369
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 90 14:43:51 MET DST

Brent L. Woods writes: 
>      That's the whole point of a repatriation bond.  If you lose (and,
> consequently, are unable to pay your mercenaries), the mercenary unit
> can still get off-world (and, presumably, find work elsewhere--they
> hope) using banked money that you no longer have any use for (since you
> no longer exist as an organization).  If you win, then, great.  Reclaim
> the bond, use it to pay off your mercenaries, then take what's left and
> use it for a much-deserved trip to the famous vacation world of Riviera.

  Ah, I've got to admit that I didn't think of that possibility. I  guess I was
to focussed on 'You pay them salary, then you pay the repatriation bond' problem
that I forgot that one can use the repatriation money to pay them off!

> Notice that all these potential
> employers are fairly large organizations, usually with easy access to
> the kind of wealth that is needed to hire even a modest-sized
> mercenary unit.  Remember, decent troops don't come cheap.

  A few megacredits can take you quite far. Unless, of course, there is need of
armed, hitech vehicles or the ubiquitous Battledress & FGMP. If you are willing
to settle for Combat Environment Suits, Gaussrifles & RAM Auto-GL's one can
easily hire several hundred people for 1MCr (assuming Cr75,000 per platoon for
2 months. [Yes, this is  George William Herbert's exampla :-)], adding the
equipment wont add more than 25,000, for a total of one platoon per 100kCr)

>  >  What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock
>  >wants to knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.
> 
>      Easy.  It's the same as the difference between legitimate warfare
> and commiting a criminal act.  Fighting a war is *not* the same as
> robbing a bank, either legally or practically.

  But replace Wild Bill with Naasirka and the bank with a research station owned
by a competitor. It would still be a crime, but suddenly it is transformed into
a 'legitimate' ticket. 
(I'm not sure, but I think that a commando raid against a competitor has been
published in the JTAS as a ticket?) 

>      Since when are MegaCorps *not* governments?  Within their (usually
> extensive) on-planet holdings they have the force of a government, and
> can still get off world (and, presumably, find work elsewhere--they
> in the case where they own an entire planet (or system) then they most
> definitely *are* a government.

  I was assuming that there existed some kind of 'official' recognition of the
governments that makes up the imperium. Remember that, contray to what the name
would lead one to assume, the Imperium is more reminicent of a defence
pact than of a regular state.
  There is numerous references to the fact that the 'real' territory of the 
Imperium is the space between the planets, and even one oblique reference to
that the IISS is charged with deciding which planetary governments that are
'legitimate'
  (Reference: TD adventure number 11 or 12 (?) where a rebel movements first
priority is to make the IISS change the worlds UWP 'government' classification
to 'balcanized', thereby transforming the rebels from being a (probably) illegal
organization to being one of two governments on that world, thus giving is some
sort of legitimay in the eyes of the Imperium.)

Adrian Hurt writes:
> As far as the Imperium is concerned, none.  The planets in question look after
> their own defence.  If the "Rules of War" are broken, the Imperium intervenes.
> I suspect the Vranxian invasion is more likely to break the Rules than the
> bank job.

  My question then is: Why does not every criminal organize their jobs as
tickets, and take advantage of the *repatriation bonds*? Since defeated mercs
are allowed free passage off planet, one would assume that captured criminals
would jump on that opportunity!


  If we look at it from the individual mercs point of view, (s)he is bound to
be quite interested in if the repatriation bond is going to be honored, or if
some Imperial official is going to smash them with a law-book and say:
  "Sorry, but this exceeds the limits for a ticket and enters the criminal area,
Off to Exile/Usani you go!"

  (BTW, In my campaign there is a civil war on a certain planet where bonds
are *not* honored. And since the guerilla is claimed to be Zho-supported, this
has led to that Marines have been forced to do Counter Insugency assignments
there. Quite an unpopular assignment, I assure you...)

- -bertil-

PS, Anyone out there who knows a sure method of transforming ClarisCAD documents
from a mac into generic postscrips files? Yes, it has Traveller connection.
- -- 
.sig out on lunch

-------- TML Message #1370 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1370
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 90 08:49 EDT
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Battle of Two Suns

>Date:     Thu, 28 Jun 90 9:10:51 EDT
>From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
>Subject: (1365)  Battle of Two Suns

>With Regard to Adrian Hurt's commentary on the battle of Two Suns:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Now for the question.  The final battle of the Fourth Frontier War was the
>Battle of Two Suns, so called because it took place somewhere between Yres
>and Menorb (see Library Data A-M, and Adventure 1 - Kinunir).  What were two
>battlefleets doing in interstellar space?  (Apart from blowing holes in each
>other! :-)

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>      In my opinion this could not have happened, and is really an artifact
>of an earlier conception of the game.  The particular entry he cites was
>culled from Adventure Module 1 (The Kinunir), which was issued before High Guar
   d
>came out (I think), and before Trillion Credit Squadron (certainly).  The mere
>fact that that module describes a 1250ton vessel as a "cruiser" compared to
>the later 50,000ton+ cruisers, and equips it with a black glode marks it as,
>shall we say, a trifle obsolete.  (However--the Traveller Adventure includes
>a battle as a deep space refueling rendevous).

Well, there is one thing to consider about this.  In space, stars are rarely
one parsec apart.  I am not sure about the distance between Yres and Menorb,
but for arguments sake, lets assume that it is one hex on the star map.  The
stars could be any place within that hex.  So lets say that this is the setup:

      +-----+
     /       \
    <   Yres  >
     \    *  /
      +-----+
     /     * \
    <  Menorb >
     \       /
      +-----+

The asterik indicates where the stars are.  It is possible that they are close
to being a binary system, just that one doesn't rotate around another.  In
which case the battle could have occured in deep space.

As far as the cruiser comments go, in Suppement 9, Fighting Ships you will see
a whole line of cruisers ranging from light cruisers to heavy crusiers.  The
Kinur (sp) was a colonial cruiser and could have been listed at the 1250 ton
displacement, though I seem to remember it being larger.  (Ah the problems of
not having your reference material handy)  Regardless, High Guard and TCS were
both founded upon the earlier works.  There is a lot of contenuity.  In fact, I
seem to remember the Kinur using the High Guard statistics (don't quote me on
that one).

Just my 0.02 credit's worth for the sake of arguing.... :-)

        Anton Devious UPP: B89F98
        Executive Planner for Interstellar Applications
        "Superior Intellects for Superior problems"
        "You have a problem, I have a plan!"

... An expert from A. Devious' business card
- --
Rob Miracle              | Bitnet   : RWMIRA01@ULKYVX    CIS: 74216,3134
Programmer/Analyst-II    | INTERNET : rwmira01%ulkyvx.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu
University of Louisville | UUCP     : ...psuvax1!ulkyvx.bitnet!rwmira01

-------- TML Message #1371 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1371
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 90 09:03 EDT
From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Comments, and an idea...

>Date: Thu, 28 Jun 90 14:11 EST
>From: "Bruce T. Ritchie, P.S.C." <BRUCER%PSC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
>Subject: (1366) Comments, and an Idea..

>     In the mean time, I had a bit of a `brainstorm' the other day. I
>know, I can here you thinking "Oh God, what now". Read on.........

Oh God, what now?    :-)


>     In our current MT game we are always running into (and needing to
>generate!) interesting `characters' (NPC's that is). Wouldn't it be
>great if there were a whole bunch of these listed somewhere? What if
>we all share with the list some of our favorite characters (which
>could be our current NPC's or PC's!)? I would think that Name, UPP,
>home world, current status & location (and date), and a very brief bio
>might be enough. I'll give you an example below.

[Example saved and deleted for future use :-) ]

I think this is a great idea.  We could build a small data base of these
characters and that would be of great help.  Maybe we could pretty them up and
put them in some kind of "Standard form"  (Should we call ISO or ANSI?) and
when we get a batch of them, upload them to GEnie since they are kind enough to
let us have their files (of course someone is paying for them, but at least
they are letting us redistribute them).

I don't have the character sheets handy, but one of the first I will upload
(besides my numero-uno PC, Anton Devious) is a dude named Tad McBad.  He is a
bounty hunter.  He has a cool character sketch, but I will have to find a way
to scan it in :-).  I have a couple of other NPC's that I have used on
occasions to give my character's fits.  I will try to get some entered into
this computer and mailed out.

Rob

-------- TML Message #1372 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1372
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 90 12:51 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: An NPC archive....


I think this is a novel and nifty idea! My characters are what makes
my campaigns special. I'd be glad to contribute a couple dozen (including
profiles for Near Miss, if anyone wants them).

metlay

-------- TML Message #1373 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1373
From: "Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: (1369) Re: Mercenaries
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 90 1:44:16 EST

 
 In Archive-Message-Number 1369, Bertil Jonell writes:
 >
 >Brent L. Woods writes: 
 >> If you win, then, great.  Reclaim the bond, use it to pay off your
 >> mercenaries, then take what's left and use it for a much-deserved
 >> trip to the famous vacation world of Riviera.
 >
 >  Ah, I've got to admit that I didn't think of that possibility. I
 >guess I was to focussed on 'You pay them salary, then you pay the
 >repatriation bond' problem that I forgot that one can use the
 >repatriation money to pay them off!

     Sure.  That's how bonds work.  If you don't forfeit the bond (in
this case, lose the war), you don't lose the money; you get it back.  If
you win, then you pay your troops their accumulated pay and bonuses, and
transport off-world is *their* problem.  The larger and better-
established units will usually have their own transport (remember the
_Broadsword_ class mercenary cruiser?), so they'll just load up their
equipment and go on to their next ticket.

 >> Notice that all these potential employers are fairly large
 >> organizations, usually with easy access to the kind of wealth that
 >> is needed to hire even a modest-sized mercenary unit.  Remember,
 >> decent troops don't come cheap.
 >
 >  A few megacredits can take you quite far. Unless, of course, there
 >is need of armed, hitech vehicles or the ubiquitous Battledress &
 >FGMP. If you are willing to settle for Combat Environment Suits,
 >Gaussrifles & RAM Auto-GL's one can easily hire several hundred
 >people for 1MCr (assuming Cr75,000 per platoon for 2 months. [Yes,
 >this is  George William Herbert's exampla :-)], adding the equipment
 >wont add more than 25,000, for a total of one platoon per 100kCr)

     Um.  I'm not so sure about that.  How long are you planning on
keeping your fighting force in the field?  If it's any reasonably long
length of time, then payroll costs are going to mount up (not to mention
death benefits for KIAs and medical support costs for ordinary
casualties).  How about ammunition?  You usually have to pick up the
tab for that.  Replacement of combat-lossed equipment?

     Remember, things *always* end up costing more than you planned,
since warefare isn't amenable to prediction.  Was is von Clausewitz
who said "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy?"

 >>  >  What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock
 >>  >wants to knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.
 >> 
 >>      Easy.  It's the same as the difference between legitimate warfare
 >> and commiting a criminal act.  Fighting a war is *not* the same as
 >> robbing a bank, either legally or practically.
 >
 >  But replace Wild Bill with Naasirka and the bank with a research
 >station owned by a competitor. It would still be a crime, but suddenly
 >it is transformed into a 'legitimate' ticket. 

     Um.  I have two comments on that.  First, Naasirka can buy any
number of judges they want (not to mention lawyers--remember, whoever
has the most lawyers wins).  I strongly suspect that "Wild Bill doesn't
have that option.

     Second, I'd bet long odds that any decent mercenary would be too
proud to accept a ticket that requires him to become a common criminal.

     A strike raid against a research station as part of a combat unit
is one thing.  Robbing a bank is something else again.  I think that
it's reasonable for the average mercenary to not have to fight civil
police.

 >(I'm not sure, but I think that a commando raid against a competitor
 >has been published in the JTAS as a ticket?) 

     I don't know for sure.  My collection of the Journal goes back to
issue 9, and is complete to the present.  I just checked 9 through 24
(my issues of _Challenge_ are still packed--I just moved) and didn't
find any mercenary tickets.  Could be, though.

 >  I was assuming that there existed some kind of 'official'
 >recognition of the governments that makes up the imperium.

     I doubt that it matters.  If you have the actual power, official
recognition doesn't make that much difference.

 >  My question then is: Why does not every criminal organize their jobs
 >as tickets, and take advantage of the *repatriation bonds*? Since
 >defeated mercs are allowed free passage off planet, one would assume
 >that captured criminals would jump on that opportunity!

     If the government with the power *isn't* your employer, and you
just did something to annoy them that wasn't part of legitimate warfare,
they probably won't let you off the planet.  You're going to prison
anyway, so trying to fake up some some bogus "ticket" won't help you.

 >  If we look at it from the individual mercs point of view, (s)he is
 >bound to be quite interested in if the repatriation bond is going to
 >be honored, or if some Imperial official is going to smash them with
 >a law-book and say:

     I doubt that the Imperium would be involved.  More probably some
local authority.  The Imperium has enough problems without meddling in
some local criminal justice system.

 >  (BTW, In my campaign there is a civil war on a certain planet where
 >bonds are *not* honored.

     Really?  And there are actually mercenaries stupid enough to fight
there?  I'm amazed.  I certainly wouldn't.  Heck, I'd sooner hang up
my webgear and get a job at McDonalds (I don't care if it *is* 3000
years in the future--some things will *never* go away).  :-)

 >PS, Anyone out there who knows a sure method of transforming ClarisCAD
 >documents from a mac into generic postscrips files?

     Try using chooser to select a laserprinter driver and then print
to a file.  That should do it.


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163
PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)


-------- TML Message #1374 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1374
From: "Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: (1370) Re: Battle of Two Suns
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 90 1:56:40 EST


 In Archive-Message-Number 1370, Rob Miracle writes:
 >
 >As far as the cruiser comments go, in Suppement 9, Fighting Ships you
 >will see a whole line of cruisers ranging from light cruisers to
 >heavy crusiers.  The Kinur (sp) was a colonial cruiser and could have
 >been listed at the 1250 ton displacement, though I seem to remember
 >it being larger.  (Ah the problems of not having your reference
 >material handy)

     Fortunately, mine is just across the room.  :-)  Looking in my
copy of Adventure 1:  _The Kinunir_, I see that the ship is listed as
being 1200 tons.  There are no High Guard stats.  The copyright date
on the adventure is 1979, while the date on my (first printing) copy
of _High Guard_ is 1980.

 >Regardless, High Guard and TCS were both founded upon the earlier
 >works.  There is a lot of contenuity.  In fact, I seem to remember
 >the Kinur using the High Guard statistics (don't quote me on that
 >one).

     It may have been redone in High Guard form, but I think the above
dates show that the original design predates Book 5.


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163
PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)


-------- TML Message #1375 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1375
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Deckplans anyone?
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 90 9:56:09 MET DST

  After several tries, I`ve finally found a program suitable for drawing
deckplans. As a test, I remade the plans for an old Vargr Trader that the 
players in my campaign have been jogging around in.
(Jump2, 1G, Slightly modifyed (6 low berths added) version of the one that
appeared in the Vargr Alien Module. Tonnages according to the old method, but
there is no big discrepancies.)

  I've managed to get it into a postscript file (by using the alt-F hack) and
run some nice program on the resulting file that is supposed to make it 
compatible with Laserprinters other than apples.
  (It has only been tested on a LaserWriterII connected to the unix machines,but
it printed ok when I fed the file to the printer with standard 'lpr')

  The bad news is that the file is somewhat large..

<Chorus> "HOW LARGE?"

  130k...

  So posting directly to the TML is definately out of the question.

  But if anyone wants a copy, mail me and I'll be hapy to mail it (split into
smaller segments).

- -bertil-

PS. I've got 2 versions of the file, One formatted for A4 paper and one for
    'US letter' (whatever that is?). I'll send you the US letter version 
    unless you want the A4 one (or, heavens and quota forbid, both).

PPS. It uses the fonts Helvetica and New Helvetica Narrow. But those seems to be
     somewhat standard.
- -- 
.sig sauer

-------- TML Message #1376 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1376
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 90 16:28:47 EDT
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Comments, and an idea...

> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 90 09:03 EDT
> From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu>
> Subject: (1371) Re: Comments, and an idea...
> 
> >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 90 14:11 EST
> >From: "Bruce T. Ritchie, P.S.C." <BRUCER%PSC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
> >Subject: (1366) Comments, and an Idea..
> 
> I think this is a great idea.  We could build a small data base of these
> characters and that would be of great help.  Maybe we could pretty them up and
> put them in some kind of "Standard form"  (Should we call ISO or ANSI?) and
> when we get a batch of them, upload them to GEnie since they are kind enough to
> let us have their files (of course someone is paying for them, but at least
> they are letting us redistribute them).
> 

I think this is a great Idea as well. Sort of like our own private version
of the JTAS's (Actually I forget the name of the article series now :-(  )
Anyway they had a description of a charater and then how a group of PC's
could meet and/or interact with said character. This last part is important
as it gives some insight to the operation of the NPC.

As a "Standard format" how about:
Name  UPP
Origins (Race, Age, sex, etc)
(Notable) Skills, Awards
Background (Past service, etc)
Current Activities
Possible Player Interaction
Optional Patron mission.

You are free to upload them to GEnie if you wish, however they were not kind
at all to us. We only have the Sector data, because the people at Digest
group gave us permission (as they were the ones responsable for the original
GEnie post). We have had the data for serveral months, and it took us (mainly
Mark Cook) this long to get around their (GEnie's) restrictions. The fact
that they are here at all is because of Mark Cook. 

Uploading can be done to the TML ftp site, just let me know via email that 
you have put something in the 'donations' directory, and I will move it to 
the traveller area. If you don't have ftp access, you can mail me with the 
information directly.

			-Dan

Dan Corrin, System Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
TML FTP site coordinator:  dan@engrg.uwo.ca   ...!watmath!julian!engrg!dan

-------- TML Message #1377 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1377
Subject: RE: Comments, an idea...
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 90 8:38:19 EDT
From: "45252-Peter L. Berghold" <peterb@homxa.att.COM>

Operating System: uts 5.2.6b 5
Organization: AT&T-BL, Red Hill System Administration Group (HRSAG)
Location: HR 2C119
Phone: (201) 615-4419
Comment: Are we having fun yet?
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL16]

>     In our current MT game we are always running into (and
needing to
>generate!) interesting `characters' (NPC's that is). Wouldn't it be
>great if there were a whole bunch of these listed somewhere? What if
>we all share with the list some of our favorite characters (which
>could be our current NPC's or PC's!)? I would think that Name, UPP,
>home world, current status & location (and date), and a very
brief bio
>might be enough. I'll give you an example below.



If you *really* need NPC's generated in batches:   I have a
program up and running on my "HOME" machine that will crank out
very basic characters based on the OT rules.   The output is very
raw and when I use it for myself, I edit the daylights out of it
to make the characters useable.  

As far as the program itself, I wrote it in C++ and it (much to my
chagrin) has turned out to be not so portable.  

HOWEVER!  If you want some NPCs, give me an EMAIL address and I'll
whip up a batch.


- -- 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Peter L. Berghold            |  AT&T, HRSAG, +1 (201) 615-4419        |
|INTERNET: plb@homxa.att.com  |  UUCP: {uunet!allegra|att}!violin!plb  |
|FAX: 1(201) 706-2004         |                                        |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------- TML Message #1378 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1378
Subject: RE: Mercenaries
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 90 8:52:24 EDT
From: "45252-Peter L. Berghold" <peterb@homxa.att.COM>

Operating System: uts 5.2.6b 5
Organization: AT&T-BL, Red Hill System Administration Group (HRSAG)
Location: HR 2C119
Phone: (201) 615-4419
Comment: Are we having fun yet?
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL16]

|*     Second, I'd bet long odds that any decent mercenary would be too
|* proud to accept a ticket that requires him to become a common
|* criminal.

{ Character mode on:
	
	From Ian Bucan, Founder and CEO of Armageddon Industries:
	
	Rob a bank?!?!!  @#@#!$%%#$   Get yer bleedin' arse outta my
	office!   If I EVER catch ya' aroun' here agin I'll cut your
	appendages off PERSONALLY and feed 'em to ya'!   We run a
	respectable business here and won't put up with the likes of
	criminals like you!
	
	Now... GET THE HELL OUT!
	
}

There we have it, an opinion (DM -2, die roll 5 on reaction) on
mercenaries engaging in bank robberies...   

Ian is one of my alter egos, (now as an NPC) and is an ethnic Scot
through and through.   With a long family tradition of being
involved in "soldier for hire" situations that he is proud of.
Ain't no way he'd get involved in a bank robbery.  

Probably, if he found out about a group that was robbing banks and
calling themselves mercenaries, he'd make the victim banks an
offer for his services at unbelievably low prices... damn near
free.



- -- 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Peter L. Berghold            |  AT&T, HRSAG, +1 (201) 615-4419        |
|INTERNET: plb@homxa.att.com  |  UUCP: {uunet!allegra|att}!violin!plb  |
|FAX: 1(201) 706-2004         |                                        |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------- End of TML Messages --------

