Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1800
Date: 1/22/00 9:31:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Traveller-digest Sunday, January 23 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1800
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Coveralls
Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
Re: Marishal material
Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
Re: hi
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity (endless)
Re: Armed Kangeroos
Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
re: Traveller without psionics
Re: Taskwar subthread: Attributes, Skills & Personality
Re: Taskwar subthread: Attributes, Skills & Personality
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Traveller variants of Major World Religions
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Taskwar subthread: Attributes, Skills & Personality
Re: How small can a sophont be?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:36:37 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Coveralls
In a message dated 00-01-21 08:05:21 EST, you write:
<< Do this a few times and your opinion of coveralls will be unprintable. >>
Now imagine you have a pack and the usual soldierly paraphernalia to deal
with also, and throw in a case of dysentery . . .
I am told they issued coveralls to American soldiers in the Pacific theater
for a short time -- until someone noticed the soldiers were cutting the seats
out of the things -- looks bad in the newsreels . . .
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:32:48 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
In my campaign just to make it simple, spaceships, fighters, heavy
ground missiles have the same size(30mm) & power. The smaller missiles
are usually those used in multiple launchers or hand held launchers and
vary in damage. Those usually run in the 20mm or below, depending on
tech level.
darkhstarr
Bruce Macintosh wrote:
>
> >Is it just me, or has Traveller had way too many
> >definitions of space missiles?
>
> >[and problems integrating space combat and ground combat]
>
> Whatever one says about TNE, it had a (slightly awkwardly but completely)
> integrated scale from personal weapons to starship weapons...GT has this
> also.
>
> In CT terms, the best you can do is dust off "Striker" and use its
> conversion rules...
>
> >1) non-spacecraft missiles are an order of magnitude
> > less powerful than spacecraft missiles
> >2) heavy infantry weapons [PCMP, PC] are an order of
> > magnitude less powerful than spacecraft lasers.
> Maybe even more so...
>
> Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:34:41 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Marishal material
That's kind of sad to hear. I was hoping sometime to replace some of my
lost Fasa Traveller material.
darkhstarr
"Swordy (Colin Michael)" wrote:
>
> The adventures were sold to Seeker, which also published them. Seeker,
> according to Don McKinney, is now the property of our friend Mr. S____r.
> I've also heard that all of the FASA Traveller material was purchased by
> Seeker in the mid-Eighties. That means that about half of the Keith
> brothers adventure material is lost in the political quagmire. :-(
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Colin Michael, WebDev
> www.downport.com
> The Traveller Domain
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Boris Cibic"
> > Does anyone know who owns the copyright on the Marishal material?
> > Furthermore, does anyone have a complete set which they are willing to
> part
> > with or at least donate photocopies?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:45:47 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
From: "Terry Carlino"
Terry wrote:
>Rob wrote:
>
>> especially when some of the entries in BtC
>> _contradict_ published Classic Traveller data.
>
>Since you haven't been specific about which data I just thought I'd ask: Is
>the published data you are referring to canon or forbidden canon? Is it CT
>material or MT/TNE information, which is not applicable to GT?
>
Some of it may be due to the Stellar Change that happened between MT and
TNE. Whether you consider that applicable or not is up to you, but I consider
the eradication of Type VI stars and the shifting of M0-D primaries into M0-V
stars to generally be a good thing...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:42:49 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: hi
I agree even-handed is useful. I also tend (particularly for new
players) to make it easy (but not to easy) to win. I also had to learn
that for fairly players (who first probably was D&D, no offense meant)
that a more action oriented game was needed.
At a local con a ran a Traveller game, and it was basically a case of
stealing one party member's illegally seized ship and escaping
off-planet. Another, the party all rolled up high passages in character
generation so I placed aboard a luxury liner and set up a hijacking,
giving them the choice of helping the crew or throwing in with the
pirates.
darkhstarr
"Jason T. Barnabas" wrote:
>
> > > hello I am a new MT GM and I would very much appreciate any advice you
> all
> > > could give me on a good start up for a campaign. My players are mostly
> > > unfamiliar and, quite frankly so am I, with the system.
> >
> > First off, don't freak out. There was a first time for all of us, and
> *we* lived through it. (Shut *UP*, Eris!!!) Don't sweat the rules too
> much. If you need help in understanding them, don't be afraid to ask for
> help.
> >
> > Also, don't feel like you have to be married to the milleu or the setting.
> You can set up your own little campaign out in the middle of nowhere if you
> want, and nobody can tell you not to. Don't be afraid to experiment.
> >
> > Read lots of 'hard' sci fi and mine it for ideas. Get the errata for it;
> it'll help you make sense out of things a lot easier.
> >
> > And don't forget, *HAVE FUN*.
>
> You have receive some very good advice, there is one
> more item I would add. Make sure that the reward is
> commensurate to the effort. Do not give the PCs anything
> they don't earn. If the PCs absolutely must have something
> for an adventure, you can allow them to borrow or lease it.
> You can let them have it for only as long as they need it
> and arrange for it to be taken away. Let's say they need
> a ship, you can have a patron hire them to take a ship to a
> particular location. When they are done with the adventure,
> they give the ship to its owner and receive their pay.
>
> Don't be capricious. Do be even-handed. If you don't know
> what to do, consult with the players as much as possible
> without giving away the adventure.
>
> But most important, have fun!
> --
> Jason
> ______________________________________________
> The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
> http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
> Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
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>
> __________________________________________
> NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
> Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
> http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:35:27 -0500
From: "Alvin"
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity (endless)
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:06:47 +0100
> From: Jens Rydholm
> Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
>
> Marc Harcourt wrote (on the CGG mailing group at egroups):
> > I recently bought GURPS Traveller and the Behind the Claw supplement.
> > I have created two characters for use in the game. One of them I
> > have planned as a medical missionary. The religions outlined in the
> > game stink. (Surprise! Surprise!) I've thought about it a bit and
> > come up with the following ideas and would appreciate some thoughts
> > from you about the ideas.
>
> Alvin Plummer, could you please point this man in the direction of BITS?
> 101 Religions seems to be exactly what he is looking for.
>
I'll put in a comment on the CGG list...
>
>
> I think (please, no flames) that the idea that Christianity should be
> important in the Third Imperium is quite unrealistic. It probably is
> important in the Solomani Sphere, but not in Sylean and Vilani culture.
> Vilani religion would be quite different (ancestor worship?), and much
> more widespread.
>
I *greatly* agree here: The Third Imperium has a fundamentally
different cultural structure than Solomani regions. Remember back
before the birth of Christ, where every city had it's own gods?
Replace city for world, and you have something close to the
Imperial religious situation (In My Opinion).
Now, there would be common threads in these religions:
my favourites would be Vilani ancestor worship and
Vilani Ritualism ( "do the things that ancient religious tradition,
and the gods / universe / etc. will be pleased." ).
Solomani religions would be influencial in power
(thanks to all those Solomani nobles) but with few
believers in general. My standard guesstimate is
"1% Christian": large in raw numbers (about 167.7 billion) ,
but small in comparison to their competitors. If 1% of all
high-pop worlds is Christian, that would add up to 11
important Christian worlds within the Imperium.
Low-pop systems would fluctuate too much for a
firm statement on their numbers.
Back in the Solomani Sphere, it's more like 10% - 50%
Christian, depending on how vigourous converts are
pursued and the reproduction levels of Christian families.
The only real competitor right now is Islam, which
is growing faster than Christianity, due to reproduction
rates (Christians make more converts.) My guess is
that in the long term, Islam will take over Europe in two-three
centuries, and Christians get East Asia and Black Africa.
Eventually, Islam is restrained more and more by the global
media culture from it's usual oppressive instincts, and won't be
able to act effectively to halt conversions to Christianity.
[1]
SOME major religious change will occur during the
Long Night: my guess is s number of "new monotheisims"
will rise up to challenge the "old monotheisims" of
Islam and Christianity. [2] An entire range of alternate
possibilites are also available, limited only by 1) the
imagination 2) no major "Conversion by the Sword"
- - or the laser pistol, or the orbital bombardment - across
several star systems, simply because there isn't enough
starships to transport the manpower needed, or defeat
a moderately-defended, reasonably-populated planet..
During the Imperial period, my guess is that various atheistic
ideologies would arise in several systems, to replace supernatural
religions with a faith in Science, Equality, Stability, Democracy,
or whatever surrogate is popular among the intellectuals. The
historical record implies that they will last until the next major
financial and political collapse: the amount of time needed varies.
The statists, of course, will use whatever ideology or religion
is available, so long as taxation and State power is increased.
> I have thought a lot about common elements in the religions of Humaniti,
> though. IMTU, a lot of human (and other) religions include some kind of
> gods/spirits/angels with wings. This is due to the prehistoric influence
> of the Ancients. Don't remember if I read this in a book somewhere... I
> probably did.
>
Well, no. Take Marxism, for instance. Or Racial Supremacy.
Or Tolerance. Or Secularism.
I had to snip a HUGE spiel in response to this claim.
Let's just say that you are using a very narrow definition
of "religion", and leave it at that.
> This makes for some interesting plot threads... discovering that
> primitive people on different planets spaced widely apart have religions
> that include common elements raises more than a few questions...
>
Hey, we already have the Ancients.... Moreover, they might have
spread via FTL travel, or a widespread First / Second Imperium
religion. There is also simple coincidence, and some kind
of unknown FTL communication. Or perhaps the same
"being" simply visited them both.
> /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
>
>
******
[1] OK, So what about the secularists? Talk
about religion is fine, but not if they have no
real cultural or political importance, but are
merely some disposable form of sheeple
control tool, "For The Eternal Glory of the State"
My guess: they're too busy with contraceptives and
abortions to *have* a future. Currently they survive
via a prosecularist schooling and higher education
system, which keeps them flush with new recruits.
Long term, the school's will be privatized, with the
money instead used to care for the ever-growing
percentage of elderly people, dependent on the State
for their pensions - just as they have been trained to be.
Privatizing the schools, of course, eventually means
loss of State control of their curriculm, and they will
teach whatever the paying public want's them to teach,
with Christian school prayers if desired, with Islamic
laws if that's what the people want instead. Professors
who don't go along with the program will be squeezed
out. (With the privatizing of the schools, they'll
eventually kiss goodby to tenure, as well ...)
Tiny trend point: in Ontario - my locality - the
provincial government has been slashing education
expenditures, while trying to keep health care cuts
at a minimum. When choosing between the old and
the young, *they* understand which group provides
more campaign funding, and more political influence.
There has been some talk about eliminating tenure,
as well....
[2] Where are the Jews? They will hold out, somehow,
but you won't find many outside of the Solomani Sphere.
American Jews - the wealthiest and most educated of
the bunch - are declining rapidly due to intermarrage
with gentiles: their kids tend to leave Judaism, and almost
no grandchildren are Jewish. The decline of American
Judaism implies a decline in American support of Israel.
This will not help the Jews there, who are in a nasty
spot. [2a] Pressed hard by the rapidly increasing
Muslim nations that surround them, I would guess some
kind of Second Holocaust somewhere around 2050 -
2150, coinciding with the growth of Islamic political influence
in Europe, especially in Germany (Kurds) and France
(N. Africans).
Alternate possibilities are the "Death of a Thousand Cuts"
as the Israeli government makes a chain of concessions
to the Palestinian State, and/or "Aparteid and Collapse",
where the Israelis oppress the Arabs within their borders
for as long as they can, then - after a time - the state
falls apart in the face of all those international sanctions.
I don't see any way how the Israeli state will *grow* in
power, excluding - maybe - a great financial boom.
*That* would require a serious decline in military
expenditures, and an end to local Israeli-style socialism.
Don't hold your breath.
[2a] "Why couldn't the Promised Land be somewhere -
anywhere - else?"
- hypothetical Jewish complaint
Alvin Plummer
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:22:45 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Armed Kangeroos
>OK Aussies! Who was the original artist of "Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport?"
>That's what came to my mind when the 'roos fired back in the VR sim. Not
>Crocodile Dundee, and not Tank Girl.
>Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Rolf Harris, Australia's criminal mastermind. Beloved by thousands of
children, Rolf is in fact an insane megalomaniac plotting world domination.
(Or so the quokka's tell me.)
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 03:24:18 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
- -----Original Message-----
From: Terry Carlino
To: Traveller Mailing list
Date: 23 January 2000 00:50
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
>Rob,
>
>You wrote:
>
>> especially when some of the entries in BtC
>> _contradict_ published Classic Traveller data.
>
>Since you haven't been specific about which data I just thought I'd ask: Is
>the published data you are referring to canon or forbidden canon? Is it CT
>material or MT/TNE information, which is not applicable to GT?
>
>Terry C
AFAIK, MT & TNE are not forbidden canon per se. Any Traveller product that
is copyright by GDW is fair game for GT writers. Obviously, timeline
specific *canon* is not really relevant to the new GT timeline, but that
will still leave a fair bit of useable canon from these sources. eg UPP's
for Norris, Strephon, and Margaret appear in GDW's Arrival Vengeance MT
adventure. This would still be a useable canon source for GT writers
wanting references for those NPCs.
Similarly, canon background for the Cymbeline sentient chips can be gleaned
from the CT Adventure Signal GK, the MT/TNE supplement Survival Margin, the
TNE rulebook, the TNE adventure/supplement Vampire Fleets etc. All of these
make reference to pre-rebellion timeline aspects of these chips. If any GT
writer *wanted* to include reference to these chips (not necessarily as
Virus...), then these would all include allowable canon material.
Most MT & TNE sourcebooks include pre-rebellion UWP's (though obviously
their allegiance codes would have to be changed to Im...)
etc, etc.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:31:40 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: re: Traveller without psionics
Robert O'Connor wrote:
>Weird Trav meme :- all these starships moving through jumpspace may one
>day cause uncontrolled large scale deformation of the space-time
>continuum, leading to something like Cynthia Higginbotham's alternate
>collapse. Restrict access to jumpspace!
This has already happened. Why else do you think controlled access to jump space
is limited to 6 parsec ranges?
Darn those joyriding Ancients, messing up jump space for the rest of us... ;-)
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:31:12 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Taskwar subthread: Attributes, Skills & Personality
From:
> Would it be fair to say that beginning SOC is a matter of birth, but
> what you do with it from that point is up to the player and the roll
> of the dice?
I certainly wouldn't dispute such a claim, with a minor exception. I think
it would certainly be possible, in the fluctuating personal social situation
presented in Traveller, that a character's family line could fall from
grace, or gain in social prestige, between birth and age 18. :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:45:28 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Taskwar subthread: Attributes, Skills & Personality
>> Would it be fair to say that beginning SOC is a matter of birth, but
>> what you do with it from that point is up to the player and the roll
>> of the dice?
>
>I certainly wouldn't dispute such a claim, with a minor exception. I think
>it would certainly be possible, in the fluctuating personal social
situation
>presented in Traveller, that a character's family line could fall from
>grace, or gain in social prestige, between birth and age 18. :)
Soc would be your PCs level at age 18, it might be fun to roll again and
see what it was originally! Or, 1d6 and 1 = was less by 1d6, 2-5 = Same as
generated and 6 = was higher by 1d6.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:07:20 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
From: Jens Rydholm
> I like to compare the Traveller timeline to that of Europe. Replace
> the Ziru Sirka with ancient Rome, the Rule of Man with the
> Barbarians that destroyed Rome, the Long Night with the Dark
> Ages, and the Third Imperium with the renaissance. The turning
> points are pretty major, and most cultural details are warped beyond
> recognition. Some culture is revived, dusted off, and used all over
> again. I imagine the same would be the case in the 3I.
Fair enough. Still, when you're working with a sort of periodic revival
model, like the one you're proposing, things have an even better chance of
being warped by subsequent generations... and the upheavals involved allow
all sorts of bizarre things in.
But hey, it's your TU! :)
I was just pointing out that it's not terribly unrealistic for an ancient,
and popular, Terran religion to spread to the stars significantly.
> > I'm not saying that Christianity will dominate the stars.
>
> IMTU, no single religion is really widespread in any case. A lot of
> worlds have their own local religions, and a number of smaller but
> widespread fringe religions/cults do exist, but most Travellers are
> simply not religious. I use religious individuals or groups in order to
> add flavor and/or plot hooks, but nothing more.
I tend toward the opinion that religions, real or imagined, add a good deal
of depth to a fantasy world (and I'm not talking fantasy like unicorns and
dragons here, either).
> The Church of Elvis is a wonderful thing... ;-)
Bah! Rock n' Roll religions are merely the opiate of the masses, which is
why the workers of the Imperium should turn to Lennonism. :)
> True. The fact that I am not religious sort of makes religions IMTU no
> more than warped tales of ancient history. I guess the opposite
> tends to become true if you are a religious player.
Actually, I'm not particularly religious. I just don't subscribe to the
"naturalist" viewpoint as a general rule. My background is largely in
mythology and folklore, which actually does consist of more than the true or
false nature of specific stories. When people get caught up in the
"naturalist" approach, which is to say either debunking stories or trying to
find a way to fit them in with current scientific knowledge, they lose sight
of the big picture.
> I do, however, use religions heavily when playing Fantasy RPGs, but
> that is because I feel that they fit in there. In hard SF, I don't see the
> need for more than a few individuals to be really religious. Soft SF
> is another matter entirely (Star Wars and the Force).
I would tend to disagree with this on many levels, myself. Like I said
before though, it's your Traveller universe to do with as you wish! :)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:15:58 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
>From: Black ICE
...
>1. CT materials seem to indicate a much more pervasive Solomani
>influence in the 3I than is seen in the M:0 materials for T4. ISTR that
>most of the nobility in CT materials are of Solomani descent.
Yes, but you've forgotten - it's _Turks_ In Space. :) fnord
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:23:08 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Traveller variants of Major World Religions
Steven Hudson wrote:
>
> Yes, but you've forgotten - it's _Turks_ In Space. :) fnord
Now there's a good point: a lot of Solomani space is presumably
taken up by Turks in Space. Therefore, I'd expect to find some
major variants of religions spread throughout the Imperium but
concentrated in regions:
1. Diaspora Sector: variants of "Eastern" religions
such as Zoroastrianism, Jainism, Islam.
2. Solomani Rim: Variants of Turkic Islam, Orthodox
Judaism and Christianity.
3. Core: Imperial Christianity (= a mix of Episcopal
Christianity and Sylean mystery religions), various
surviving Sylean mystery religions and cults surrounding
certain fringe nobility attached to certain worlds.
4. Ilelish, Zarushagar, and Daibei: Animist, philosophical
religions [pseudo-Confucian or Taoist].
5. Lancia: Extreme individualist/solopsist/existential
and mystical religions. Stoicism.
6. Vland: Two words: "Corporate Taoist". Ruthless but
brave.
7. Antares: Ultra-pacifist versions of Sylean mystery religions.
8. Deneb: anything goes.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:46:40 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
From: Black ICE
> 1. CT materials seem to indicate a much more pervasive Solomani
> influence in the 3I than is seen in the M:0 materials for T4. ISTR that
> most of the nobility in CT materials are of Solomani descent.
To take things a step further, CT materials which mention the Vilani
downplay their influence considerably. I'm thinking of the Library Data
supplement entry on the Vilani specifically.
It seems that during the MT era, folks amped up the influence of the Vilani
in order to back certain pet handwaves they had.
> 2. Several major Terran religions (including many sects of
> Christianity) make a strong effort to proselytize. Combined with
> factor #1 above, this tendency could easily spread such religions to
> other branches of humaniti, possibly displacing indigenous
> religions.
Yes, this could be a huge factor. Of course, between now and the
Interstellar Wars the status of Terran religions might change considerably.
> Religion in Traveller doesn't matter much to me, but for those
> gamers who want a strong religious component in their campaigns,
> it is reasonably plausible that Christianity, in some form, would be
> fairly widespread in the 3I.
I just want to see Swiss Guards in powered armor performing black ops for
the Pope[1].
[1] A friend and I worked on a cyberpunk style roleplaying background. In
this background, some fundamentalist Christian groups began to wage a
terrorist war against various other religious groups. Muslims, Jews,
Catholics, and various Christian denominations, tired of having their
religious leaders assassinated and their houses of worship bombed and burned
appealed to the American government for protection. The American government
was unable to protect these groups, but enacted various organizations to
secure "special privileges". Basically, these privileges gave the holders
the right to purchase military-grade weapons as well as a nationwide
certification process for mercenary guards.
There were various other changes. The background was a lot of fun. In the
campaign we were designing the characters would likely run afoul of the
Swiss Guards and become involved in the infighting between the various
Catholic orders, including the Jesuits, which had become something of a
CIA-type spook organization, and the Franciscans, who had involved
themselves heavily in biotechnology.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:16:12 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Taskwar subthread: Attributes, Skills & Personality
On 01/22/00 at 10:31 PM, "Chris Seamans" said:
>From:
>> Would it be fair to say that beginning SOC is a matter of birth, but
>> what you do with it from that point is up to the player and the roll
>> of the dice?
>I certainly wouldn't dispute such a claim, with a minor exception. I
>think it would certainly be possible, in the fluctuating personal social
>situation presented in Traveller, that a character's family line could
>fall from grace, or gain in social prestige, between birth and age 18. :)
Ah, but this is Traveller, and in Traveller aren't all characters
decanted from their cloning tanks on their 18th birthday and
submitted directly to "The Draft?"
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:16:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
In mail you write:
> On 21 Jan 00, at 3:54, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> But depending on the linkage mechanism, the "swarm" can't spread out
>> much. Vinge did a *good* job on the Tynes.
>>
>> It takes 3-10 of them to form a "person", and the link is high
>> bandwidth ultrasound. So they can't get too far apart or time lag does
>> weird things to the mind. Likewise, persons can't get too close to each
>> other, as that tends to cause *really* weird effects as their "thoughts"
>> start interfering.
>
> IIRC more than five or (with careful design) six members tends to
> make the "person" unstable.
Could be. I just remember the "hypercube" config. :-)
>> BTW, *bodies* die. But as long as only one (or two in larger groups) is
>> lost at a time the "person" goes on. They just grab a new body that "feels
>> right" to the group. The personality changes every time this happens, but
>> it usually stays much the same (memories and intellectual skills tend to
>> be "spread out" over several bodies, physical skills and some "attitudes"
>> tend to be more body centered)
>
> The weakness is that if the "person's" number of bodies drops to
> three they become only semisentient, and below that they're non-
> sentient.
I have to wonder if AI modules (even in the Slow Zone) might allow
enough "extra" to allow a group of three or less to "acr sentient" well
enough to get to safety?
>> In an emergency, *any* nearby unclaimed body can be adopted.
>>
>> So mentally they are alien. With the capacity for becoming *really*
>> alien (via tricks from the story). I think they'd give hivers a
>> headache.
>>
>> I don't recall if they are herbivores, carnivores or omnivores. I
>> *think* they aren't herbivores but I won't swear to it. So it's
>> *likely* that the K'kree won't like them, but they can outfight any
>> K'kree ever born in space or "hand to hand".
>
> IIRC they were carnivores.
Oh *goody*, that makes them the K'kree's worst nightmare. :-)
That's *perfect*.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1800
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Traveller-digest Sunday, January 23 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1801
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: x-boat traffic
Re: McGuffin
Re: Armed Kangeroos
Re: McGuffin
Re: Official Rules System War 2000
Re: Rob's Traveller Software
Re: Re Banking...
Re: Armed Kangeroos
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Armed Kangeroos
re: Armed Kangaroos
Re: McGuffin
Re Missiles
Re Hi!
Re: McGuffin
re: Versions (was: Heresy)
re: Rob's Traveller Software
OT Re: Armed Kangeroos
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Dark Imperium again
Re: CT Reprints
Re: psuedo battleships
Re: mines
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:35:27 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: x-boat traffic
> As for Schrodinger, I've heard there is a "cat" story but never actually
> read it. I'm vaguely aware of Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle (sorry
> Star Trek :) ) but I am sure there is much more depth to it than saying,
> "looking at a subatomic particle makes two of it's attributes change in
> random and unpredictable ways".
As I understand it the cat is an illustration of how the
observer affects the observation. He proposed an
experiment in which there is a 50/50 chance for a vial of
acid to be broken. If the vial gets broken, the cat dies, if
not the cat lives. The only way to find out is to check
(observe) the results, but until such time as the check is
made, the cat might or might not be dead. As far as I know
no one has actually done the experiment, so "Schrodinger's
cat" is perpetually in a state of maybe.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:42:08 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: McGuffin
Glenn St-Germain wrote:
> ... a jump drive that requires less fuel is something
> that people would chase after, but the device itself could also
> unbalance the game universe. ...
I don't see that it would unduly. Pushing the jump point out
to 1,000 AU would add c. 6 months to the trip at 1 G. Even
at 9 G*, the trip will take an additional 2 months. This is one
of the reasons that I wouldn't worry about adding Jump
Gates.
* 9G is the greatest sustained acceleration allowed under
any incarnation of Traveller I have seen.
Add to this the fact that a ship operating out that far will
probably need HEPlaR or some other type of auxiliary
Mdrive and you find that this particular McGuffin is not as
attractive as it might have first seemed. Of course if you
must op out that far, you could probably afford to accelerate
all the way to the jump point and decelerate after the jump
adding only c. 4.23 months (1.41 months at 9G).
Of course, I wouldn't recommend trying this with the jump
gate. Can you imagine trying to thread a 50 m hole at over
197 Mkm/hr (~18.257% c)? :-o
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:46:57 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Armed Kangeroos
From: Jim & Peta Lawrie
> >OK Aussies! Who was the original artist of "Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport?"
> >That's what came to my mind when the 'roos fired back in the VR sim. Not
> >Crocodile Dundee, and not Tank Girl.
> >Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
>
> Rolf Harris, Australia's criminal mastermind. Beloved by thousands of
> children, Rolf is in fact an insane megalomaniac plotting world
domination.
> (Or so the quokka's tell me.)
What's a quokka?
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 06:01:26 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: McGuffin
Well, you could position a Station/fuel cache in the vicinity of the Jump
Gate. Then you could Jump to the station/cache, refuel, go through the gate,
then either visit the station/cache at the other end or jump to the planet
1000AU away, or any other system in jump range.
Building and positioning the infrastructure may take some time but in the
long run it'd be worth it.
Matt
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jason T. Barnabas
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 23 January 2000 05:47
Subject: Re: McGuffin
Glenn St-Germain wrote:
> ... a jump drive that requires less fuel is something
> that people would chase after, but the device itself could also
> unbalance the game universe. ...
I don't see that it would unduly. Pushing the jump point out
to 1,000 AU would add c. 6 months to the trip at 1 G. Even
at 9 G*, the trip will take an additional 2 months. This is one
of the reasons that I wouldn't worry about adding Jump
Gates.
* 9G is the greatest sustained acceleration allowed under
any incarnation of Traveller I have seen.
Add to this the fact that a ship operating out that far will
probably need HEPlaR or some other type of auxiliary
Mdrive and you find that this particular McGuffin is not as
attractive as it might have first seemed. Of course if you
must op out that far, you could probably afford to accelerate
all the way to the jump point and decelerate after the jump
adding only c. 4.23 months (1.41 months at 9G).
Of course, I wouldn't recommend trying this with the jump
gate. Can you imagine trying to thread a 50 m hole at over
197 Mkm/hr (~18.257% c)? :-o
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:06:13 -0700
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger"
Subject: Re: Official Rules System War 2000
> >Sorry Eris, I may be heterodox, but not heretic :)
>
> Hee! So you say. However, for some of our number if you aren't a
> strict CT/HG acolyte then you *are* a heretic.
Not really. If you start getting into TNE, then you've obliviously been seduced by the Dark Side.
Keven
- --
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Science-Fiction Adventure
In Reavers' Deep
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:08:43 -0700
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger"
Subject: Re: Rob's Traveller Software
> Okay, all you Macinphiles...what is the minimum Mac
> hardware/software required to run Rob Prior's Traveller software?
> CPU, Ram, HD space, OS level?
>
> Yes, the dark side is seductive and I'm considering a small dabble.
> A dabble mind you!
That's what they *ALL* say.
Keven
- --
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Science-Fiction Adventure
In Reavers' Deep
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:14:00 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Re Banking...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Rupert Boleyn
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 9:21 AM
Subject: Re Banking
>
> In NZ bakns makes lots of money from lending, and then make even
> more by charging fees (and often won't pay out interest unless you've
> got $300+ on deposit). They seem to have decided that there's no
> reason to go with the high interest differential/no fees model or the
> low differential with fees model when you can have both.
>
And in Australia, they do the same, and the banks make added profit by
accepting checks today, but not "clearing them straight away." That is,
they will accept a check from the same service, different branch, clear it
and invest the money for 4-5 working days before you can actually draw on
the money. Might not sound that much I suppose, but add up all the cheques
that go through a bank in a day and they get to play with that money for
about a week before you play with it!
If the check is drawn from a different bank (company) altogether, your bank
gets the useable credit - to invest - and you still don't get your cash for
4-5 working days. I had to cash a cheque recently by depositing it in my
account, but as the cheque was to be drawn from another (opposition) bank, I
had to pay quick clearance fee of $17... kicker was, not paying the
clearance fee meant the cheque would clear normally in 4-5 working days, but
paying the clearance meant the cheque "MIGHT" clear in 3-4 working days...
if not 5 working days!!!!! I wasn't THAT desperate, I didn't pay the fee...
- -- The Roc
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:27:11 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Armed Kangeroos
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jason T. Barnabas
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Sunday, 23 January 2000 4:52
Subject: Re: Armed Kangeroos
>From: Jim & Peta Lawrie
>> >OK Aussies! Who was the original artist of "Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport?"
>> >That's what came to my mind when the 'roos fired back in the VR sim. Not
>> >Crocodile Dundee, and not Tank Girl.
>> >Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
>>
>> Rolf Harris, Australia's criminal mastermind. Beloved by thousands of
>> children, Rolf is in fact an insane megalomaniac plotting world
>domination.
>> (Or so the quokka's tell me.)
>
>What's a quokka?
>Jason
Now you've done it.
A quokka is a small wallaby like animal that lives in south-western
australia, they live in huge basalt towers apon which their large sattelite
arrays pick up all the information beamed to them by their info-gathering
minions as they ceaselessly fight the forces of evil.
Didn't you learn ANYTHING at school?
Jim
(For more info, I'll have to take this off list.)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:41:27 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Steven Hudson wrote:
>
> >From: Black ICE
> ...
> >1. CT materials seem to indicate a much more pervasive Solomani
> >influence in the 3I than is seen in the M:0 materials for T4. ISTR that
> >most of the nobility in CT materials are of Solomani descent.
>
> Yes, but you've forgotten - it's _Turks_ In Space. :) fnord
One word, sir: Byzantium (or, if you prefer, Constantinople). ;-)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:45:56 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Armed Kangeroos
"Jason T. Barnabas" wrote:
>
> From: Jim & Peta Lawrie
<>
> > (Or so the quokka's tell me.)
>
> What's a quokka?
I think it's a kind of mole.
At least, ISTR hearing mention of "quokka mole" as a delicacy at Mexican
restaurants.... ;-)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:54:02 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: re: Armed Kangaroos
Black ICE wrote:
>> What's a quokka?
>
>I think it's a kind of mole.
>At least, ISTR hearing mention of "quokka mole" as a delicacy at Mexican
>restaurants.... ;-)
You sir, are an evil, *evil* man. I salute you!
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:44:15 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: McGuffin
On Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:42:08 -0800, Jason T. Barnabas wrote:
> Glenn St-Germain wrote:
> > ... a jump drive that requires less fuel is something
> > that people would chase after, but the device itself could also
> > unbalance the game universe. ...
>
> I don't see that it would unduly. Pushing the jump point out
> to 1,000 AU would add c. 6 months to the trip at 1 G. Even
> at 9 G*, the trip will take an additional 2 months. This is one
> of the reasons that I wouldn't worry about adding Jump
> Gates.
And it won't drastically increase the speed of communication that much
either. While it may take 6 months at 1G to travel 1,000 AU, it takes
light approximately 5.8 days to travel that far (assuming the receiver is
located on a planet 1 AU out from the central star)-- not that much faster
than an insystem jump.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ:#7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
I used to have a handle on life, then it broke.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:27:26 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Missiles
>>Is it just me, or has Traveller had way too many
>>definitions of space missiles?
>>[and problems integrating space combat and ground combat]
>Whatever one says about TNE, it had a (slightly awkwardly but completely)
>integrated scale from personal weapons to starship weapons...GT has this
>also.
MT also has a similar scaling approach. Unlike TNE, but like GURPS, there
are no changes to how to apply the penetration by type of target....
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:14:06 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Hi!
>From: "Micah Borer"
>
>hello I am a new MT GM and I would very much appreciate any advice you all
>could give me on a good start up for a campaign. My players are mostly
>unfamiliar and, quite frankly so am I, with the system.
>
Ah, I was wondering how long it would take you! ;) (Micah is the Gent I
sent an MT set up north with...)
A good place to start is to take a look at a single world, and run any
generic Sci-Fi story there, then allow them to move to the next world....
But, as you may suspect, That's not My Style... I tend to do side
adventures around a merchant ship's travels. With more and more "Patron
Encounters" coming along. A good run for a merchant ship is the "Aramis
Trace", the group of J1 separated worlds towards the right of the Spinward
marches map, and including the world Aramis. There is good trade potential,
and plenty of worlds for various tidbits.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 02:56:15 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: McGuffin
"James W. Lindsay" wrote:
>
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:42:08 -0800, Jason T. Barnabas wrote:
>
> > Glenn St-Germain wrote:
> > > ... a jump drive that requires less fuel is something
> > > that people would chase after, but the device itself could also
> > > unbalance the game universe. ...
> >
> > I don't see that it would unduly. Pushing the jump point out
> > to 1,000 AU would add c. 6 months to the trip at 1 G. Even
> > at 9 G*, the trip will take an additional 2 months. This is one
> > of the reasons that I wouldn't worry about adding Jump
> > Gates.
>
> And it won't drastically increase the speed of communication that much
> either. While it may take 6 months at 1G to travel 1,000 AU, it takes
> light approximately 5.8 days to travel that far (assuming the receiver is
> located on a planet 1 AU out from the central star)-- not that much faster
> than an insystem jump.
However, a significant decrease in jump fuel requirements (say, Jump-3
needing only 20% of hull volume for fuel) would seriously impact
military ship design, especially with regard to cruiser, commerce
raider, and intelligence (SIGINT) ship designs. All of these types of
ships would benefit from "longer legs" (the ability to jump farther,
without having to sacrifice military features [weapons, armor, etc.] for
range). For instance, I was able to do a "back of the envelope" rework
of my TUSCALOOSA-class heavy cruiser to have J-6 capability (using the
fuel ratio mentioned above), with virtually no loss of military
capability. I had to give up 8 50-ton missile bays, plus some auxiliary
armor, to include the additional volume of a J-6 drive, _plus_ an
auxiliary J-2 drive for jumps initiated within 1000 AU. Since my
TUSCALOOSA conversion was a quickie draft, I didn't include features
such as a HEPlaR drive, but I suspect that a full conversion to a
distant-space jump drive would still maintain most of the original
TUSCALOOSA's combat capability.
The benefits of such a drive would also impact capital ship design, in
several ways. Battleships (jump-capable captial ships) would be able
either to extend their range (with the same warfighting capability), or
to enhance their warfighting capability (with the same range).
Meanwhile, battle rider tenders could conceivably carry more riders for
the same distance.
The implications are intriguing.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:24:28 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: Versions (was: Heresy)
At 21:07 -0500 22/1/00, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
wrote:
>Hmm, T4.1 with FFS2 and Bruce Macintoshes BCS, T4 equipment
>designed with FFS2 and Infini-V, M:IW and M:200. But wait there's
>more, a willingness to steel not only from all Traveller editions, but
>also any other game system I can lay my grubby hands on.
I thought that mentioning other systems would get be burned at the stake?
I would use FFS2 for design, except that Rob hasn't done an FFS2
program for the MacOS, and *the* spreadsheet doesn't work with
Appleworks. I'm not buying Excel 98 just to run FFS2... However, I
use both SOpM and FFS2 for technobabble and handwaves.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:32:08 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: Rob's Traveller Software
At 21:07 -0500 22/1/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>Okay, all you Macinphiles...what is the minimum Mac
>hardware/software required to run Rob Prior's Traveller software?
>CPU, Ram, HD space, OS level?
It's *really* high.
Something like a 68030 processor, <1Mb free RAM and none of the
programs at BITS are <1Mb in size. There are some extra bits of
software at my site http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/
I believe a 68020 will run the software, provided you have System 7
or higher installed. But I haven't had a chance to set up my Mac LC I
bought recently. Personally, I'd have a look for a PowerPC machine
second hand (say a Performa) as it means you can run most current
software. Others may be able to give better feedback on low spec
machines, but ISTR that my website has some notes on machine specs.
>Yes, the dark side is seductive and I'm considering a small dabble.
>A dabble mind you!
What, I thought you asked about the MacOS, not Microsith
(http://www.microsith.com/) OSes!
Or is the MacOS the dark side, and W*ndows the Borg? Linux...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:36:21 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: OT Re: Armed Kangeroos
At 0:29 -0500 23/1/00, "Jim & Peta Lawrie" wrote:
> Rolf Harris, Australia's criminal mastermind. Beloved by thousands of
>children, Rolf is in fact an insane megalomaniac plotting world domination.
>(Or so the quokka's tell me.)
When I was at university, we had two Aussie ex-pats performing at our
graduation ball - Danni Minogue and Rolf Harris. Dani Minogue had
about 100 people watch her set. Rolf had nearly the whole ball
(>1000). This was just after he'd covered 'Stairway to Heaven' in
1994...
Rolf Rocks!
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:39:48 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
At 0:29 -0500 23/1/00, Chris Seamans" wrote:
> > 1. CT materials seem to indicate a much more pervasive Solomani
> > influence in the 3I than is seen in the M:0 materials for T4. ISTR that
> > most of the nobility in CT materials are of Solomani descent.
>
>To take things a step further, CT materials which mention the Vilani
>downplay their influence considerably. I'm thinking of the Library Data
>supplement entry on the Vilani specifically.
>
>It seems that during the MT era, folks amped up the influence of the Vilani
>in order to back certain pet handwaves they had.
Or is it a reaction to the period of trouble between the
700's and the early 1000s when the Solomani were causing all sorts of
trouble?
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:00:03 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Dark Imperium again
I bought the recent Issaries publication 'Glorantha Classics 1: Pavis
and Big Rubble' yesterday. (It's about an inch thick and a reprinting
and reformating of the Chaosium RQ packs of the same name).
Anyway, I was skimming it and at the end came across this quote from
Steve Perrin:
"Once we actually mapped the Rubble for publication it seemed to
shrink in size and was no longer the immense ruin that would rake
months to traverse. *As things become known, they lose grandeur*."
Which was kind of my point about BtC.
It moves the Marches from a general map with a name and a stat (still
the case for most worlds in the Regency Sourcebook even) for each
system, to something with a couple of points about each world. As an
analogy, we go from a parchment map marked with 'Here be Dragons' to
a touring map of a country with recommendations about where to visit
in every world.
Not a problem for me as a GM but a great big constriction when
related to writing for publication. If the key worlds are detailed,
you can hang bits of the plot around the secondary systems. If the
secondary systems are detailed, then you are struggling.
That's not to put BtC down. As a quick reference for campaigns it's
excellent (especially as you can ignore it). But it doesn't give the
feeling of openness the CT Marches Supplement, the Regency book or
even the Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora did. Which is a problem to me
when writing. But there again, I can go and play in M0 as as BITS
lets me ;-) It's still a wide open space...
Dom
PS Lottery RPG hopes...;-)
1) Set up company to publish Traveller (or invest in BITS) and get
the license to do so...
2) Buy the missing material off R***** S***** and give the rights
back to FarFuture...
Anyone else got any RPG related hopes on this kind of front?
Shame I don't enter it
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 06:32:09 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: CT Reprints
In a message dated 1/22/00 1:28:52 AM Central Standard Time,
eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:
<<
The "end of the month" has been bandied about, but I guess it just
depends on how things go. I certainly am anxiously awaiting my
order.
>>
I spoke with the printer yesterday (Friday Jan 21), and they expect the
printed books back by the end of the month (which I take to be the 31st). I
expect (and hope) to ship individual orders in the first week of February.
There will be no grass growing under our feet once the books come in.
Marc
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 03:46:06 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: psuedo battleships
>From: Robert Prior
>Subject: Re: psuedo battleships
>
>> But we shouldn't discuss M-drives :)
...
>Nothing to discuss. They are obviously fusion drives, as you can use them
>as fusion guns with a factor equal to the drive's acceleration in Gs.
Oh, sorry - for a moment there I mistook your for a HG2 revisionist scum...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:13:44 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: mines
>From: Michael Maley
>Subject: Re: System Navy vs Pirates
>
>Actually, mines historically are very cheap, alas the problems we have
>with them today, and doubt that will change with time technology. The
Don't you think that there may be some differences due to the
environments that they're being deployed in?
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1801
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Traveller-digest Sunday, January 23 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1802
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Re : Organlegging (and tips for budding Burkes and Hares)
Alien barbeque ad
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Railguns
Re: Armed Kangeroos
Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Rob's Traveller Software
Imperial Politics (was: Traveller varients of Christianity (endless))
Re: Versions (was: Heresy)
Re: Rob's Traveller Software
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: x-boat traffic
Re: Dimorphism
Re: x-boat traffic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 05:20:35 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
>From: "Alvin"
>Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity (endless)
...
>via a prosecularist schooling and higher education
>system, which keeps them flush with new recruits.
>Long term, the school's will be privatized, with the
I guess you're not interested in contemplating the rise of "secularism"
(de facto anyways, although simple irrelegiousity is likely a better term)
during an anti-secularist era of private education, i.e., 19th C. England?
More seriously, the Catholic church at least will eventually escape
the albatross of an absurdly conservative (reactionary?) Pope, although
they'll need God's help if they get a similar replacement.
If I had to guess I'd likely say that the real threat to modern urban
Christianity in North America is sheer disinterest, probably caused in
no small part by said religions not addressing what people perceive to be
their spiritual needs (hmm, that sounds like the conditions under which
the Christian cult displaced the various pantheons then extant under the
Empire). Thus, we end up with all sorts of neat imports/hybrids/inventions
from whole cloth (ooh, "revived" _Aztec_ spiritualism?! - gotta love those
New Age people...).
To quote (IIRC) - "all of the names go into the pot"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:27:11 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Chris Seamans replied to what Black ICE wrote:
> > 1. CT materials seem to indicate a much more pervasive Solomani
> > influence in the 3I than is seen in the M:0 materials for T4. ISTR
> > that most of the nobility in CT materials are of Solomani descent.
>
> To take things a step further, CT materials which mention the Vilani
> downplay their influence considerably. I'm thinking of the Library
> Data supplement entry on the Vilani specifically.
Well, I only have (and use) T4 and GT supplements, so that kind of kills
the Solomani influence IMTU... :-)
> Yes, this could be a huge factor. Of course, between now and the
> Interstellar Wars the status of Terran religions might change
> considerably.
Just discovering radically different lifeforms on other planets would
probably change many of the Terran religions significantly. Especially
if those lifeforms were more advanced and/or more ancient than
humanity...
Kind of an identity crisis for the entire religion.
Also, I imagine that a lot of "UFO cults" would appear after first
contact had been made, preaching stuff like "the aliens will teach us
simple beings how to do everything right." Of course those cults are in
for a big dissappointment later, but for the moment they would be very
powerful.
I also imagine people like the more rabid of the NRA and survivalists in
the US shooting "aliens" and "alien sympathesizers" at sight. First
contact would probably not be entirely peaceful, even if the "aliens"
were friendly.
That's why the government wants to cover it all up ;-)
As a side note: Wouldn't that make for an interesting campaign? Start
the campaign on Earth before first contact has been made public. Let
them discover gradually that the universe is indeed a very big place.
Then let some tabloid journalist begin to circulate pictures. The
governments of the world try to cover it up, but more and more
information slips through the cracks. Chaos and anarchy takes over,
while opportunistic Free Traders either sell hi-tech weapons or take
slaves.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:46:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re : Organlegging (and tips for budding Burkes and Hares)
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote most of the quoted bits :-
>> My thought is perhaps something tailored to look harmless until it
>> enocounters the transplanted tissue, at which point it bonds with the
>> surface antigens, resulting in *new* antigens which are very much
>> "non-self".
>
> This superficially looks like a variation on Gell and Coombs type two,
> posted earlier.
> Refining your thought, the trick would be to form 'superantigens' which
> simultaneously stimulate many different idiotype specific B and T cells.
> This approach would combine the rapid, yet insidious onset of
> anaphylactic shock with a delayed sustained response, similar to a
> lethal case of toxic shock syndrome.
> Sorry ; I should have mentioned superantigens in my previous post.
Ok, sounds good.
>> I would not allow my genetic sequence to be
>> > held in a easily accessible database in this sort of environment.
>>
>> Alas, all you need is a tissue sample and even some kinds of *blood*
>> sample will work. If the person has been in for a transplant, all you
>> need to do is intercept the old organ between the path lab and the
>> "incinerator".
>
> Tissue typing requires at least 50cc of whole blood with current
> technology. The current transplantation protocols require almost double
> this.
> Ultimately, it depends on what chunk of genome or gene product you want
> to target. The logical extreme would be nanogram quantities of DNA/RNA
> for massive polymerase chain reaction amplification (reverse
> transcriptase to RNA->DNA first). Contamination during sampling is
> almost certain, though, especially with bits of human.
So you have a droyne grab the sample. :-)
Seriously, if someone (for whatever reason) got a black market
transplant, the folks that *gave* it to him have the required info to
pull the "super-antigen" trick above. Which means they can blackmail
you *two* ways.
>> If you are in the "right place", get him "mis-typed" before an
>> emergency transfusion. This may require swapping labels on a pair of
>> blood samples, which may (depending on the types involved) kill another
>> patient in the ER. A pro will regret this "necessity".
>>
>> If I recall correctly, if he's O-, then the mistake may not even hurt
>> the other patient.
>
> Correct. But this is easily traceable. Health care professionals take
> great care in checking blood specimens and products. We don't like
> creating work for ourselves - there's enough to do already!
In some cases "traceable" doesn't matter. As long as the victim *dies*.
>> Of course, odds are the ER staff can save him anyway...
>
> Highly likely. Depends on the ER, tho...
>
>> Or just spray a bit of nerve gas into the respirator...
>
> If the forensic pathologists are suspicious (big if), you will be able
> to demonstrate abnormally low (not detectable with the
> really noxious organophosphates) cholinesterase activity
> in a blood, muscle or fat sample taken from the recently deceased (up to
> ~24 hours for the solid tissues using current lab techniques). With
> neutron activation or NMR techniques, the agent itself may be detectable
> for months, even years. 'Wet chemical' analysis on a tissue sample is
> possible for a few weeks post mortem.
As I noted, in many cases they don't *care* if the death is known to
have been deliberate, as long as it can't be traced easily. The KGB
seems to have been fond of the "bump into victim in crowd, spray
nevre agent in face, walk away" technique.
Likewise, the "bump and stab" technique where a *tiny* bead gets
implanted in the tissues and after a while dissolves and releases some
lovely toxin such as ricin(sp?) that is toxic in microgram quantities.
> Instead, have a ventilator
> disconnect, or an unrecognised oesophageal intubation and wait about
> fifteen minutes (just in case the victim is pre-oxygenated).
> [The latter two problems have kept anaesthetic related death rates in
> the U.S., until the last ten years or so, among the highest in the
> OECD - about 1:20000 general anaesthetics].
> I.V. potassium and adrenaline/epinephrine are a dynamite combo,
> especially when combined with hypoxaemia/hypercarbia. Stick the stuff
> in a handy drip (which any ventilated patient will have) and walk
> away, leaving no incriminating residue behind.
Leaving no residue is good. But having the means of death be overlooked
in a typical autopsy is "good enough". Having it require a truly
*paranoid* foresenic exam to find it is better, but rarely *needed*.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:13:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Alien barbeque ad
They are running a bunch of *strange* ads for the Yellow Pages (I
assume it's a national campaign). One of them has the actor (whose name
I can't recall) saying something like...
"I get lots of letters... "
"John, I've got an alien body here what should I do with it."
"Just one word. Barbeque!"
The camera then cuts to the Yellow Pages heading for Barbeque Supplies.
Do we have an ad executive spying on us?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:18:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
In mail you write:
> From: Black ICE
>
>> Religion in Traveller doesn't matter much to me, but for those
>> gamers who want a strong religious component in their campaigns,
>> it is reasonably plausible that Christianity, in some form, would be
>> fairly widespread in the 3I.
>
> I just want to see Swiss Guards in powered armor performing black ops for
> the Pope[1].
>
> [1] A friend and I worked on a cyberpunk style roleplaying background. In
> this background, some fundamentalist Christian groups began to wage a
> terrorist war against various other religious groups. Muslims, Jews,
> Catholics, and various Christian denominations, tired of having their
> religious leaders assassinated and their houses of worship bombed and burned
> appealed to the American government for protection. The American government
> was unable to protect these groups, but enacted various organizations to
> secure "special privileges". Basically, these privileges gave the holders
> the right to purchase military-grade weapons as well as a nationwide
> certification process for mercenary guards.
>
> There were various other changes. The background was a lot of fun. In the
> campaign we were designing the characters would likely run afoul of the
> Swiss Guards and become involved in the infighting between the various
> Catholic orders, including the Jesuits, which had become something of a
> CIA-type spook organization, and the Franciscans, who had involved
> themselves heavily in biotechnology.
Yeah, that's the Jesuits all right. *They* even freely admit to being a
major intelligence gathering operation.
But you forgot the Dominicans. They're the folks who ran the Spanish
Inquisition. In the sort of setup you describe, they'd likely readopt
their old "habits". :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:20:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Railguns
In mail you write:
> At 4:19 AM -0800 1/21/2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>> Actually, you don't need extra magnets... the two conductive rails
>>> generate a strong magnetic field which is in just the right direction
>>> between them to accelerate the projectile. And you are correct...
>>> any conductor can be used to launch projectiles. In fact, I've
>>> seen aluminum sabots with sub-caliber tunsgten carbide darts.
>>
>>No, you *do* need the field. At least for JxB force. Eddy currents
>>*might* work, but it'd be a *hell* of a lot less efficient.
>
> All of the railguns I've seen (at least 4 different working models)
> did not use any magnets other than the rails themselves. The biggest
> railgun I've seen has a 10 meter barrel and sucks up 9 MA at around
> 100 Volts generating an enormous current. It is aimed straight down
> into a hole because no one trusted any backstop... I've seen a 35mm
> railgun with a round barrel consisting of quadrants, 2 copper and
> 2 of a fiberglass like composite material. It also used the magnetic
> field generated by the current in the rails. Another one I've seen
> is equivalent to a .50 cal machine gun and also used the current
> generated by the rails. All used very high current at very low
> voltage and were being developed as viable replacements for various
> chemical guns used currently.
Ok, I just visualized it and realized that *between* the rails, the
fields "line up".
I assume these guns have to give a "kick" to the projectile? At least
to start it?
And they'd *still* be more efficient *with* magnets, partly because
there'd be a field *ahead* of the projectile to help move it, and
because the static field would be reinforced by the dynamic one.
>>>>Rail guns are preferred for weapons because they are so damn simple and
>>>>don't require synchronized switching of field coils the way the "coil
>>>>guns" do. Most of the smaller reasearch "guns" are rail guns.
>>>
>>> This is true, but if you can time your pulse so that it ramps down
>>> to 0 just as the projectile leaves the barrel, you eliminate the
>>> muzzle flash of a powerful electric arc and reduce electrical erosion
>>> of the barrel ends.
>>
>>Use a sensor to detect the front end of the projectile and chop the power.
>
> You try suddenly chopping a couple of mega amps... you really want to
> be able ramp down at the last second in anticipation
Dead simple. Give me a thermally stable perfect insulator and a perfect
or near perfect conductor.
The switch is a *closely* fitting sheet of insulator between two blocks
of insulator. The conductor runs through all three. The plate sticks
out one side by *more* than the diameter of the conductor. "Hit" that
with a "hammer" and the plate is forced sideways, with the insulator
replacing it.
Of course, that piece of the conductor in the sliding plate is going to
get *hot* as the contact area between it and the wires goes down.
That's why you need the setup to operated at *high* speeds. :-)
>>> My professor predicted a maximum of 50% energy efficiency for
>>> railguns and 80% for coilguns.
>>
>>But for *ruggedness* I'd go with a rail-gun. Only moving parts are the
>>trigger and ammo feed mechanism (well, maybe a relay, too). And the
>>ammo should be easier to "scrounge".
>
> I would if i had to carry it around, but if it's on a tank, complexity
> isn't as big an issue given the complexity of modern tanks as is.
Ruggedness is *always* an issue.
And I daresay that a tank *could* carry some sort of "dies" for turning
scrap metal into rounds.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:01:00 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: Armed Kangeroos
A REAL SPLORT!!!!! Fresh coffee, just lit the cigarette, turn on the mail
reader and BLAM, got me first thing in the morning. I love it!!!
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Black ICE"
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: Armed Kangeroos
> "Jason T. Barnabas" wrote:
> >
> > From: Jim & Peta Lawrie
>
> <>
>
> > > (Or so the quokka's tell me.)
> >
> > What's a quokka?
>
> I think it's a kind of mole.
>
> At least, ISTR hearing mention of "quokka mole" as a delicacy at Mexican
> restaurants.... ;-)
>
> --
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
> Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:16:46 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
>Rob,
>
>You wrote:
>
>> especially when some of the entries in BtC
>> _contradict_ published Classic Traveller data.
>
>Since you haven't been specific about which data I just thought I'd ask: Is
>the published data you are referring to canon or forbidden canon? Is it CT
>material or MT/TNE information, which is not applicable to GT?
Classic Traveller and GDW-published MegaTraveller. (GDW MegaTraveller
material that doesn't involve the rebellion is part of GT canon, AFAIK.)
For example, the Keith's wrote a lovely 2-part article on Craw in an early
JTAS (5 & 6, I think). A world map, drawing of the minor race living there
and other native lifeforms, complete physical and social workup; a really
nice job, and all before we had any rules for detailing worlds. The
throwaway tag in BtC invalidates this by changing th atmospheric taint
(which changes the biology) and not mentioning the minor race (which, given
how important this would be, tends to indicate that they aren't there).
I found other examples, but that's the one that sticks in my mind; probably
because (a) the article made an impression on my and shaped how I describe
worlds, and (b) because I ran a game on Craw once.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:27:35 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
>I do, however, use religions heavily when playing Fantasy RPGs, but that
>is because I feel that they fit in there. In hard SF, I don't see the
>need for more than a few individuals to be really religious. Soft SF is
>another matter entirely (Star Wars and the Force).
>
>/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
May I recommend to you "How We Believe: The Search for God in an Age of
Science" by Michael Shermer?
Shermer is a non-believer who has seriously studied what, how, and why
people believe in God, an afterlife, and so forth. Some interesting tidbits
from the book:
Age and interest in science both decrease religiosity, as do varied
experiences. The teenager raised by religious parents who has never left
their small town will probably be more religious than at any other time in
their life.
Contrary to the American Religious Right, belief in America is growing.
(Attendance at mainstream churches is dwindling, but believe and church
attendance are only loosely correlated.) This can be explained in economic
terms by competition: instead of a few established churches offering
limited selection, people can choose from a wide variety of beliefs to find
the one the 'feels right' to them.
Anyway, too mcu stuff to go into here. (Besides, I have two exams to set
and my driveway to shovel.) Suffice to say that I see no reason why
religion wouldn't be widespread in the Third Imperium -- although I doubt
the existence of a state religion or large monolithic church.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:30:08 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Rob's Traveller Software
>Okay, all you Macinphiles...what is the minimum Mac
>hardware/software required to run Rob Prior's Traveller software?
>CPU, Ram, HD space, OS level?
>
>Yes, the dark side is seductive and I'm considering a small dabble.
>A dabble mind you!
My software will run on a MacPlus running system 6, if you can find one.
Anything newer than 1990 should do.
The applications require about 300-400k of disk space. Data files are
around 10k each.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:19:06 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Imperial Politics (was: Traveller varients of Christianity (endless))
>Tiny trend point: in Ontario - my locality - the
>provincial government has been slashing education
>expenditures, while trying to keep health care cuts
>at a minimum. When choosing between the old and
>the young, *they* understand which group provides
>more campaign funding, and more political influence.
>There has been some talk about eliminating tenure,
>as well....
Leaving aside my political differences with the government of Ontario, they
are engaged in three main strategies:
1) Pump money out of the metropolitan regions into outlying areas. Makes
political sense because outlying riding have smaller populations, so a
small benefit gives you larger gratitude.
2) Coddle the baby boomers. The "Me Generation", at least the politically
influential members of it, are pretty good at looking out for themselves at
the expense of society. (OK, that's a generalization.)
3) Work with large corporations (which provide most of their campaign
funds) to ensure a stable society with a compliant workforce. Hm, what does
this remind me of? Deja vu all over again.
Now that I've got that off my chest, my ObTrav:
IMTU the Imperium is, essentially, a fascist government. Benevolent mostly,
with some local oppressions, but definately fascist. The economy is
controlled by the megacorps, with overrides by the nobility. Given the
fluidity of capital ("Money has no home and it has no nation; it has no
friends and it won't stay long." -- The Oyster Band), the nobles serve to
guard the interests of their fiefs: making them hereditary means that the
nobles have a vested interest in _preserving_, rather than profit-taking.
Think of it as an alliance of Adam Smith's "man of business" and "man of
land" that mostly functions behind the scenes. The Imperial Service
(Imperial Family, Military, and Bureacracy) serve as power-brokers,
balancing the nobility and the megacorps to keep the whole affair stumbling
along*.
*Hm. Imperial Service has three parts. The whole Imperial government is a
troika (Imperial Service, nobles, megacorps). The Solomani are a Troika,
the Vilani have three Bureaux, and the Droyne had, originally three castes.
A coincidence? A fine seed for an Illuminated campaign here, I think. :-)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:58:57 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Versions (was: Heresy)
SD Mooney wrote:
>
<>
>
> I would use FFS2 for design, except that Rob hasn't done an FFS2
> program for the MacOS, and *the* spreadsheet doesn't work with
> Appleworks. I'm not buying Excel 98 just to run FFS2... However, I
> use both SOpM and FFS2 for technobabble and handwaves.
Does Appleworks accept Excel 5.0 spreadsheets? If so, then there are
_lenty_ of examples of (zipped) Excel 5.0 designs, using "*the*
spreadsheet" on my site (see sig). If not, I can try saving it in
another format, and see if it still works.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/travler.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:12:48 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Rob's Traveller Software
On Sat, 22 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> Okay, all you Macinphiles...what is the minimum Mac
> hardware/software required to run Rob Prior's Traveller software?
> CPU, Ram, HD space, OS level?
I think just about any color capable Mac would work; Rob develops, iirc,
on a pretty low level one, a Mac LC of some flavor. You might even get
along with a Mac SE or even a Plus...which pushes it way down the Mac
evolutionary scale (and price scale as well) A color Classic would
actually do the trick, if you could find one, but any old mac should do.
> Yes, the dark side is seductive and I'm considering a small dabble.
> A dabble mind you!
Oh, yes, little boy, here, have a taste...seee? It's not all that bad!
Here have a little more...and some more...
"Honestly man, I just snort it a little...I can take it or leave it
anytime. It's just a Mac Plus!"
later...
"Hey get off my back...it's only a little skin-popping now and then...So
I upgraded to a PowerMac, so what?"
later...
"H-h-h-h-e-y-y-y- S-s-s-t-t-t-eeeevve! Gimme a dual processor G4 with a
cinema display and 1 gig of RAM!!!! I'm jonesin' real baaaad here, man!!!"
;-)
Muahahahahaha!
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
>
> Eris
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:10:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
In mail you write:
> More seriously, the Catholic church at least will eventually escape
> the albatross of an absurdly conservative (reactionary?) Pope, although
> they'll need God's help if they get a similar replacement.
Given the election process, it's hard to *avoid* it.
> If I had to guess I'd likely say that the real threat to modern urban
> Christianity in North America is sheer disinterest, probably caused in
> no small part by said religions not addressing what people perceive to be
> their spiritual needs (hmm, that sounds like the conditions under which
> the Christian cult displaced the various pantheons then extant under the
> Empire). Thus, we end up with all sorts of neat imports/hybrids/inventions
> from whole cloth (ooh, "revived" _Aztec_ spiritualism?! - gotta love those
> New Age people...).
>
> To quote (IIRC) - "all of the names go into the pot"
And please note that at least one pagan, but non-Wiccan religion
appears to be making a comeback. Asatru(sp?). Basicly the Norse gods,
primarily Thor (even in the old days Odin was more the sort that you
held rituals for in the hope he'd leave you alone!).
And of course, "witches". Assuming they survive even to just the
Interstellar wars period, the aftermath would likely see them and any
other "persecuted" groups looking for worlds to settle.
If you buy the "Vilani don't understand micro-organism based disease"
bit, then they can just check survey reports for worlds abandoned
because of plagues. Find one where Terran medicine can handle the
problem, and settle.
One thing. If you are going to "do" Wiccan worlds, do a bit of research
first. Wiccan groups are actually *at least* as varied as the different
Christian sects.
BTW, one of my older filk song books has a couple of *lovely* illos of
things like an obvious female figure in a space suit with a horned
helmet planting a flag with a pentacle on it on some alien world. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:19:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: x-boat traffic
In mail you write:
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:34:53 -0500, Jory Earl wrote:
>
>> Thanks Leonard, I find this stuff immensely fascinating. Your explanations
>> are clear and concise.
>
> I agree, although sometimes I think Leonard knows too much for his own
> good.
None of it is classified. Or if it is, I don't tell you about it. :-)
> Have a virtual beer on me, Leonard :)
No thanks, this chair is comfy enough. But I'll take the beer.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:06:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Dimorphism
In mail you write:
> Hyena females are larger than males (and have more androgens as well -
> really interesting biology).
And I dare *any* male to read the description of the birth process and
not at least *wince*.
> There's a social rodent (hive rat? mole rat?)
"naked mole rats"
> where one giant female is the brreder and the rest of the nest act as
> support. (Have the article in SciAm, if you're really interested I can look
> it up.)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:21:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: x-boat traffic
In mail you write:
>> As for Schrodinger, I've heard there is a "cat" story but never actually
>> read it. I'm vaguely aware of Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle (sorry
>> Star Trek :) ) but I am sure there is much more depth to it than saying,
>> "looking at a subatomic particle makes two of it's attributes change in
>> random and unpredictable ways".
>
> As I understand it the cat is an illustration of how the
> observer affects the observation. He proposed an
> experiment in which there is a 50/50 chance for a vial of
> acid to be broken. If the vial gets broken, the cat dies, if
> not the cat lives. The only way to find out is to check
> (observe) the results, but until such time as the check is
> made, the cat might or might not be dead.
No. Until you check, the cat is *both* alive and dead. The wave
function doesn't collapse (assume a "fixed" value) *until* you make
the observation.
> As far as I know
> no one has actually done the experiment, so "Schrodinger's
> cat" is perpetually in a state of maybe.
Not that one, but we have managed ones where conditions where such that
*if* the state was "hidden until observed" one thing would happen, and
if it was "indeterminate until observed" something else would happen.
"Hidden" lost.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1802
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Traveller-digest Sunday, January 23 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1803
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Small change (with Traveller stuff)
Re: mines
Re: Alien barbeque ad
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Imperial Politics
Re: Alien barbeque ad
Re: Marishal material
re: Rob's Traveller Software
Re: driveway to shovel
Re: Rob's Traveller Software
Re: x-boat traffic
Re: Rob's Traveller Software
Re: Railguns
Re: Alien barbeque ad
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Imperial Politics
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Vs: Vs: The d3 Question (was Re: Official Taskwar Thread)
Re: CT Reprints
Re: CT Reprints
Re: Macguffin?
Re: Rob's Traveller Software
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 06:55:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Small change (with Traveller stuff)
In mail you write:
> On-line shopping is generally cheaper than visiting a store, mainly because
> you save the state sales tax (8.25% in California) if you order from a
> merchant out of state.
Actually, you *don't* "save" the tax. You cheat the state out of it.
Legally, you owe them the money (the laws actually *do* read that way).
States have been after mail-order companies regarding this for *years*.
There is some hope. I hear Congress may be considering laws that exampt
internet transactions from state tax.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:44:16 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: mines
Yes, and I adjust for that. But mines always have been the cheap way to
wage war for backward nations. The most expensive part is building
dedicated vessels for laying and removing mines. Space mines are just
cheap satellites with one dedicated purpose-detonation. The main extra
cost for space mines is a powerplant and drive enough to maintain an
orbit or manuver to a new position. Mines also would require just enough
brains to be remoted controlled for detonation or manuver.
darkhstarr
The Kharis class patrol cruiser I built for my campaign is also a
minelayer. Which besides its 50ton PAW bay its become a popular corsair
among those who can obtain it.
Steven Hudson wrote:
>
> >From: Michael Maley
> >Subject: Re: System Navy vs Pirates
> >
> >Actually, mines historically are very cheap, alas the problems we have
> >with them today, and doubt that will change with time technology. The
>
> Don't you think that there may be some differences due to the
> environments that they're being deployed in?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:52:24 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Alien barbeque ad
>They are running a bunch of *strange* ads for the Yellow Pages (I
>assume it's a national campaign). One of them has the actor (whose name
>I can't recall) saying something like...
>"I get lots of letters... "
>"John, I've got an alien body here what should I do with it."
>"Just one word. Barbeque!"
>The camera then cuts to the Yellow Pages heading for Barbeque Supplies.
>Do we have an ad executive spying on us?
I've never seen the ad, even though I get a couple dozen US television
stations... However, I am reminded of a series of ads currently airing
for Shake-and-Bake, involving farmyard animals (pigs and chickens) that
talk about the product.
Eg, two pigs, one tells the other about Shake-and-Bake's mix for pork
chops and how good it is; the other responds by trying to moo like a cow,
which the first one joins in on...
... which brings to mind the idea of two K'Kree actors (captives) in a
similar ad for some brand of barbeque or steak sauce...
Though I doubt they'd be able to induce two K'Kree to extol the virtues
of such a product...
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:59:11 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
>Contrary to the American Religious Right, belief in America is growing.
>(Attendance at mainstream churches is dwindling, but believe and church
>attendance are only loosely correlated.) This can be explained in economic
>terms by competition: instead of a few established churches offering
>limited selection, people can choose from a wide variety of beliefs to find
>the one the 'feels right' to them.
>
>Anyway, too mcu stuff to go into here. (Besides, I have two exams to set
>and my driveway to shovel.) Suffice to say that I see no reason why
>religion wouldn't be widespread in the Third Imperium -- although I doubt
>the existence of a state religion or large monolithic church.
On one planet with six billion people, we have a very large variety of
religions, sects, denominations, and variants from which to choose (or
not choose, as the case may be). In the age of the 3I, with 11,000 worlds
in the Imperium and a few thousand more in the Solomani Confederacy, there
may well be thousands upon thousands of possiblities, many of which can be
grouped into one of several (dozen?) major groupiongs.
In such an environment, any large group of people, particularly if they
do not share common homeworlds, will have several different religions
represented. I would imagine that one common thread in all of these
religions would be tolerance for the presence of other religions and their
adherents -- for any religion whose tenets tend to be intolerant of other
faiths, their adherents would become about as popular as a Zhodani at an
anti-psionics demonstration. Adherents of non-tolerant religions would tend
to not travel far from their homeworld.
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:05:27 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Imperial Politics
>*Hm. Imperial Service has three parts. The whole Imperial government is a
>troika (Imperial Service, nobles, megacorps). The Solomani are a Troika,
>the Vilani have three Bureaux, and the Droyne had, originally three castes.
>A coincidence? A fine seed for an Illuminated campaign here, I think. :-)
Goodness gracious, I think you're on to something here. Just in this
mundane world alone we have several examples of triad groupings. The
Christian trinity (Father / Son / Holy Spirit). The Three Kings from
the Christian nativity scene. Three cheers (hip-hip-hoorah/hooray).
The Three Little Kittens (who have lost their mittens). Rub-a-dub-dub,
three men in a tub. My Three Sons. The list goes on...
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:19:33 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Alien barbeque ad
Glenn St-Germain wrote:
>
<>
>
> I've never seen the ad, even though I get a couple dozen US television
> stations... However, I am reminded of a series of ads currently airing
> for Shake-and-Bake, involving farmyard animals (pigs and chickens) that
> talk about the product.
>
> Eg, two pigs, one tells the other about Shake-and-Bake's mix for pork
> chops and how good it is; the other responds by trying to moo like a cow,
> which the first one joins in on...
>
> ... which brings to mind the idea of two K'Kree actors (captives) in a
> similar ad for some brand of barbeque or steak sauce...
"The sauce so good, the g'naak just might forget the meat!"
<>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:27:29 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Marishal material
In a message dated 1/22/00 2:21:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Does anyone know who owns the copyright on the Marishal material?
> Furthermore, does anyone have a complete set which they are willing to
part
> with or at least donate photocopies?
I imagine it went to William Keith. I do have/did have permission from Andrew
Keith to include it on the HIWG CD (it's not on there yet though since my
wife 'borrowed' my scanner money, plus general lack of time.).
As for photocopies if I can find them something might be arranged.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:40:48 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: re: Rob's Traveller Software
On 01/23/00 at 09:32 AM, SD Mooney said:
>At 21:07 -0500 22/1/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>>Okay, all you Macinphiles...what is the minimum Mac
>>hardware/software required to run Rob Prior's Traveller software?
>>CPU, Ram, HD space, OS level?
> It's *really* high.
>Something like a 68030 processor, <1Mb free RAM and none of the programs
>at BITS are <1Mb in size. There are some extra bits of software at my
>site http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/
>I believe a 68020 will run the software, provided you have System 7 or
>higher installed. But I haven't had a chance to set up my Mac LC I
>bought recently. Personally, I'd have a look for a PowerPC machine
>second hand (say a Performa) as it means you can run most current
>software. Others may be able to give better feedback on low spec
>machines, but ISTR that my website has some notes on machine specs.
Frankly, I was thinking about a older, used powerbook. Maybe
something like a 160 or 170.
>>Yes, the dark side is seductive and I'm considering a small dabble.
>>A dabble mind you!
>What, I thought you asked about the MacOS, not Microsith
>(http://www.microsith.com/) OSes!
>Or is the MacOS the dark side,
With Jobs running things how else could it be.
>and W*ndows the Borg?
"Embrace and Extend!", if that doesn't sound like the Borg I don't
know what does.
>Linux...
Linux...why, it's the penguins, of course, "Doooby, dooby doo!"
Eris,
who prefers the power of the O
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:46:51 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: driveway to shovel
>From: Robert Prior
>Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
...
>Anyway, too mcu stuff to go into here. (Besides, I have two exams to set
>and my driveway to shovel.) Suffice to say that I see no reason why
Komrade! You mean to say that the Party has not approved your transfer
to Lotusland? Why, here it's sunny today*, and the real loonies are having
to decide whether to ski, roller-balde, or wind-surf. Naturally, I'll be out
gaming ay UBC :)
Mind you, the folks around Victoria still have better weather.
*well, I've been to other parts of the world, and that's what they call it
when the sky goes from a robust battleship grey to an anemic bluish tinge,
with a honkin' bright disc up there...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:42:44 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Rob's Traveller Software
On 01/23/00 at 10:30 AM, Robert Prior said:
>>Okay, all you Macinphiles...what is the minimum Mac
>>hardware/software required to run Rob Prior's Traveller software?
>>CPU, Ram, HD space, OS level?
>>
>>Yes, the dark side is seductive and I'm considering a small dabble.
>>A dabble mind you!
>My software will run on a MacPlus running system 6, if you can find one.
>Anything newer than 1990 should do.
>The applications require about 300-400k of disk space. Data files are
>around 10k each.
Thank you Sir, that pretty much answers my question.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:46:33 +0000
From: Martin Hardgrave
Subject: Re: x-boat traffic
In message <00118.230422.4x5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>, Leonard
Erickson writes
>In mail you write:
>
>> You mean the theory of electrons orbiting atoms is false?
>
>It's been false since Schrodinger's time.
>
It's been false since the idea was suggested, as the people who
suggested it knew that orbiting (i.e. accelerating) charges emit em
radiation and the atom would collapse as it radiated away energy.
- --
Martin Hardgrave
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:50:11 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Rob's Traveller Software
On 01/23/00 at 10:12 AM, Bruce Johnson said:
>On Sat, 22 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>> Okay, all you Macinphiles...what is the minimum Mac
>> hardware/software required to run Rob Prior's Traveller software?
>> CPU, Ram, HD space, OS level?
>I think just about any color capable Mac would work; Rob develops, iirc,
>on a pretty low level one, a Mac LC of some flavor. You might even get
>along with a Mac SE or even a Plus...which pushes it way down the Mac
>evolutionary scale (and price scale as well) A color Classic would
>actually do the trick, if you could find one, but any old mac should do.
As I've told you before I can't find *any* Mac's around here.
Apples were never especially popular, the schools generally bought
TRS, pre IBM, and then IBM or clone. There used to be a small Apple
users group that might still be around. I'll see if I can find them.
>> Yes, the dark side is seductive and I'm considering a small dabble.
>> A dabble mind you!
>Oh, yes, little boy, here, have a taste...seee? It's not all that bad!
>Here have a little more...and some more...
>Muahahahahaha!
I doubt you need to worry, the dang things don't even have a command
line! How can you respect an OS without a command line?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:55:28 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Re: Railguns
At 8:20 PM -0800 1/22/2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>Ok, I just visualized it and realized that *between* the rails, the
>fields "line up".
>
>I assume these guns have to give a "kick" to the projectile? At least
>to start it?
As far as I know, they have no assist. The projectile is inserted
and the gun is fired. In fact, the projectiles are a bit of a press
fit in the barrel. With the currents and forces involved, the
electromagnetic forces are high enough that it doesn't matter.
>And they'd *still* be more efficient *with* magnets, partly because
>there'd be a field *ahead* of the projectile to help move it, and
>because the static field would be reinforced by the dynamic one.
While that's true, I think that given the magnitude of the current,
permanent magnets would be a very small part of the force... in other
words, not worth the effort. There are also technical issues with
getting magnets in the barrel but still having enoug insulation to
keep your current confined to your rails. A bunch of iron in where
the insulation currently is might attract currents and cause problems.
>Dead simple. Give me a thermally stable perfect insulator and a perfect
>or near perfect conductor.
>
>The switch is a *closely* fitting sheet of insulator between two blocks
>of insulator. The conductor runs through all three. The plate sticks
>out one side by *more* than the diameter of the conductor. "Hit" that
>with a "hammer" and the plate is forced sideways, with the insulator
>replacing it.
>
>Of course, that piece of the conductor in the sliding plate is going to
>get *hot* as the contact area between it and the wires goes down.
>That's why you need the setup to operated at *high* speeds. :-)
I know they sometimes use explosives to open the circuit. :) The
CEM also has a web page on compulsators which are homopolar generators
(faraday disks) which generate shaped pulses and repetitive pulses.
They can give you the wave form you need to rapid fire projectiles
through a rail gun so you don't need the switch. This makes rapid
fire easier, too... as the current starts back up as you insert the
next projectile. Keep in mind that interrupting the current flow
is only part of the problem. Induction in the barrel measn that
you'll continue to have current flow somewhere, even if it arcs
across the barrel.
Bolie IV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:11:04 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Alien barbeque ad
On 01/23/00 at 10:52 AM, Glenn St-Germain said:
>>They are running a bunch of *strange* ads for the Yellow Pages (I
>>assume it's a national campaign). One of them has the actor (whose name
>>I can't recall) saying something like...
>>"I get lots of letters... "
>>"John, I've got an alien body here what should I do with it."
>>"Just one word. Barbeque!"
>>The camera then cuts to the Yellow Pages heading for Barbeque Supplies.
>>Do we have an ad executive spying on us?
I had the same reaction when I saw the commercial. The guy is a
former SNL cast member, who's name has slipped my mind too.
>I've never seen the ad, even though I get a couple dozen US television
>stations... However, I am reminded of a series of ads currently airing
>for Shake-and-Bake, involving farmyard animals (pigs and chickens) that
>talk about the product.
>Eg, two pigs, one tells the other about Shake-and-Bake's mix for pork
>chops and how good it is; the other responds by trying to moo like a cow,
>which the first one joins in on...
Yeah, and there's another seies of ads for the Chick-Filet chain
where a herd of cows uses various methods to encourage the viewers
to "Eat more Chicken!"
I got a vision of K'kree doing an "Eat more fruit!" public-service
commercials, ending with..."Or ELSE!"
>... which brings to mind the idea of two K'Kree actors (captives) in a
>similar ad for some brand of barbeque or steak sauce...
>Though I doubt they'd be able to induce two K'Kree to extol the virtues
>of such a product...
Tell a Hiver it *can't* be done.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:21:42 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
From: Steven Hudson
> More seriously, the Catholic church at least will eventually escape
> the albatross of an absurdly conservative (reactionary?) Pope,
> although they'll need God's help if they get a similar replacement.
There's always the possibility that there will be a shift in Western culture
away from liberalism. At that point, a conservative Pope would no longer be
an "albatross", but would actually become an asset.
On the other hand, Vatican politics are quite different from those seen on
the "front lines".
> If I had to guess I'd likely say that the real threat to modern urban
> Christianity in North America is sheer disinterest, probably caused
> in no small part by said religions not addressing what people
> perceive to be their spiritual needs (hmm, that sounds like the
> conditions under which the Christian cult displaced the various
> pantheons then extant under the Empire).
I would disagree strongly. I think that the real threat to modern urban
Christianity is a problem of "image". Not only is it unfashionable to be a
Christian, but to admit it in mixed company carries with it all sorts of
really nasty baggage, especially in the intellectual or academic realm. The
discussion on the list a little while back concerning biblical studies is a
perfect example of the kind of misunderstandings about Christians which are
popularly believed and which are perfectly acceptable to say.
> Thus, we end up with all sorts of neat
> imports/hybrids/inventions from whole cloth (ooh, "revived" _Aztec_
> spiritualism?! - gotta love those New Age people...).
They're only neat if you're not a victim of them. Rub shoulders with some
American Indians and ask them what they think of the theft of their various
religious traditions. It has gotten to the point where modern New Age types
will actually show up to religious ceremonies and engage in arguments with
spiritual leaders during those ceremonies. You see, they feel the need to
tell them how things *should* be done... because they read it in a book
somewhere.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:26:31 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Imperial Politics
From: Glenn St-Germain
> Goodness gracious, I think you're on to something here. Just in this
> mundane world alone we have several examples of triad groupings.
> The Christian trinity (Father / Son / Holy Spirit). The Three Kings
> from the Christian nativity scene. Three cheers (hip-hip-
> hoorah/hooray). The Three Little Kittens (who have lost their
> mittens). Rub-a-dub-dub, three men in a tub. My Three Sons. The
> list goes on...
Don't forget the large number of groups which have broken history into three
ages. First, Second and Third Reich. Antiquity, the Middle Ages and
Modernity and so on (there are others). Three pops up a lot in very
significant areas.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:31:50 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
From: Leonard Erickson
> Yeah, that's the Jesuits all right. *They* even freely admit to being a
> major intelligence gathering operation.
Yes, both I and the friend I worked with on the background are actually the
result of a Jesuit education. A few of the other players in our gaming group
are as well. Our cyberpunk Jesuits were based firmly in what we had
experienced from day to day in reality. :)
> But you forgot the Dominicans. They're the folks who ran the
> Spanish Inquisition. In the sort of setup you describe, they'd likely
> readopt their old "habits". :-)
We had a big collection of different orders and what they had become. And
no, you did *not* want to wander afoul of the Dominicans! :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:16:21 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?=
Subject: Vs: Vs: The d3 Question (was Re: Official Taskwar Thread)
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: Vs: The d3 Question (was Re: Official Taskwar Thread)
>
> >Don't exist? How come I have 2 in my dice collection???
>
> Congratulations! Where did you buy them? I really don't remember the place, other tha the fact that it wasn't a gaming store. (Some hobby shop in southern Finland?)
- -J2K
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:37:54 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: CT Reprints
CardSharks@aol.com [Marc Miller] wrote
> <<
> The "end of the month" has been bandied about, but I guess it just
> depends on how things go. I certainly am anxiously awaiting my
> order.
>
> >>
> I spoke with the printer yesterday (Friday Jan 21), and they expect the
> printed books back by the end of the month (which I take to be the 31st). I
> expect (and hope) to ship individual orders in the first week of February.
> There will be no grass growing under our feet once the books come in.
Are they all sold or can people still order them?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:10:46 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: CT Reprints
On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:09:59 -0500 (EST), CardSharks@aol.com
wrote:
>In a message dated 1/22/00 1:28:52 AM Central Standard Time,
>eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:
><<
> The "end of the month" has been bandied about, but I guess it just
> depends on how things go. I certainly am anxiously awaiting my
> order.
> >>
>I spoke with the printer yesterday (Friday Jan 21), and they expect the
>printed books back by the end of the month (which I take to be the 31st). I
>expect (and hope) to ship individual orders in the first week of February.
>There will be no grass growing under our feet once the books come in.
Does this imply that someone who didn't order earlier can't order
now, or that the order will have to wait for a second printing
(which printing will be dependent on receiving enough orders), or
are you having a 'surplus' printed to cover additional late
orders? Inquiring minds (who want to order) want to know!
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:45:39 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Macguffin?
Dear Folks -
Black ICE replied to Jason:
>> Err, what is a macguffin?
>
>IIRC, the term "macguffin" [spelling?] was coined by Hitchcock to
>describe an unusual object used as a "plot-pull" device. (A possible
>example would be Hammett's Maltese Falcon.)
Excellent example. In the original Star Trek, the MacGuffin was the dilithium
crystals. No-one knew what they were, or what they really did, but everyone
needed them and was after them... (ALSO SEE zuchai crystals!!).
In Traveller, this is known as the Gimmick. Although a MacGuffin is really both
a Gimmick and a Pull, and probably also a Push, considering that other pursuers
probably want the PC's dead...
A Trav example is the statuette from _Secret of the Ancients_ - also part of the
Basics (Troy Backett's background), and even the Enigma! A well-rounded
MacGuffin is thus the plot's entire raison d'etre! :-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:36:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rob's Traveller Software
In mail you write:
> At 21:07 -0500 22/1/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>>Okay, all you Macinphiles...what is the minimum Mac
>>hardware/software required to run Rob Prior's Traveller software?
>>CPU, Ram, HD space, OS level?
>
>
> It's *really* high.
>
> Something like a 68030 processor, <1Mb free RAM and none of the
> programs at BITS are <1Mb in size. There are some extra bits of
> software at my site http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/
>
> I believe a 68020 will run the software, provided you have System 7
> or higher installed. But I haven't had a chance to set up my Mac LC I
> bought recently. Personally, I'd have a look for a PowerPC machine
> second hand (say a Performa) as it means you can run most current
> software. Others may be able to give better feedback on low spec
> machines, but ISTR that my website has some notes on machine specs.
Huh? I vaguely recall being told it'd run on my old Mac Plus system?
All *I* care about (and all Eris likely cares about) is running the
Traveller programs. The spreadsheets convert (if you've got recent
enough PC spreadsheets)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1803
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Traveller-digest Sunday, January 23 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1804
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: mines
Re: McGuffin
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: mines
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Marishal material
Re: Rob's Traveller Software
Re: Re Missiles
Re: mines
re: mines
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1803
Re: CT Reprints
Re: CT Reprints
alien barbque ad.
Re: Rob's Traveller Software
Re: mines
Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
Re: Small change (with Traveller stuff)
re: Mines
Re: Mines
Re: Dune: House Atredies
Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
Macs and Command Lines [ot]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:39:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: mines
In mail you write:
>>From: Michael Maley
>>Subject: Re: System Navy vs Pirates
>>
>>Actually, mines historically are very cheap, alas the problems we have
>>with them today, and doubt that will change with time technology. The
>
> Don't you think that there may be some differences due to the
> environments that they're being deployed in?
There should be *considerable* differences. To start with, the "mines"
are going to be small missile platforms, not lumps of explosive. And
even *with* good stealhing, they'll be detectable as *something*.
Also given the ranges, etc you'll need a *lot* of them. Partly to have
them able to launch close enough to have a better chance, partly
because being stealthed they can't have manuever drives, so they have
to drift along in orbit.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:29:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: McGuffin
In mail you write:
> Glenn St-Germain wrote:
>> ... a jump drive that requires less fuel is something
>> that people would chase after, but the device itself could also
>> unbalance the game universe. ...
>
> I don't see that it would unduly. Pushing the jump point out
> to 1,000 AU would add c. 6 months to the trip at 1 G. Even
> at 9 G*, the trip will take an additional 2 months. This is one
> of the reasons that I wouldn't worry about adding Jump
> Gates.
>
> * 9G is the greatest sustained acceleration allowed under
> any incarnation of Traveller I have seen.
No, the trip will take an additional 2 *weeks*. One to do a J-1 to the
gate, another to do a J-1 from the destination gate to the mainworld.
Being out in the Oort, and being so important, I'm *sure* they'll have
located some medium size "iceballs" and moved them near the gate so
folks can refuel easily.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:28:34 -0600
From: William Barnett-Lewis
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
on 1/23/00 11:41 AM, Traveller-digest at
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com wrote:
>
> Yeah, that's the Jesuits all right. *They* even freely admit to being a
> major intelligence gathering operation.
>
> But you forgot the Dominicans. They're the folks who ran the Spanish
> Inquisition. In the sort of setup you describe, they'd likely readopt
> their old "habits". :-)
>
> - --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
>
> ------------------------------
(Shudder)
As an Anglican (aka Episcopalian here in the US), from history I know which
is more dangerous. The Jesuits have always cared about what they see as
truth and actually tend to be scientists themselves; whereas there is a
reason that the Domine Canes (sp? No latin books handy to check, alas...)
have that name.
Which leads me to another thought; what about us liberal urban christians?
There are a couple of us around... trying...
:>
William
- --
Live without fear; your Creator loves you | William Barnett-Lewis
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com
road and may God's blessing be with |
you always. |
St. Claire |
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:19:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
In mail you write:
> From: Leonard Erickson
>
>> Yeah, that's the Jesuits all right. *They* even freely admit to being a
>> major intelligence gathering operation.
>
> Yes, both I and the friend I worked with on the background are actually the
> result of a Jesuit education. A few of the other players in our gaming group
> are as well. Our cyberpunk Jesuits were based firmly in what we had
> experienced from day to day in reality. :)
I almost went to a Jesuit run prep school.
Also, remind folks that Cardinal Richelieu was a Jesuit. As were the
Catholic priests in "Shogun".
>> But you forgot the Dominicans. They're the folks who ran the
>> Spanish Inquisition. In the sort of setup you describe, they'd likely
>> readopt their old "habits". :-)
>
> We had a big collection of different orders and what they had become. And
> no, you did *not* want to wander afoul of the Dominicans! :)
Look on the bright side, if the Dominicans were after you you for
anything short of a *major* religious faux pas, the Jesuits will
cheerfully lend you a hand just to spite the Dominicans.
Of course, the aid can't be anything that interferes with the Jesuits'
plans, or is *too* much trouble. But if a modest effort will annoy the
hell out of the Dominicans, they'll go for it.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:28:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: mines
In mail you write:
> Yes, and I adjust for that. But mines always have been the cheap way to
> wage war for backward nations. The most expensive part is building
> dedicated vessels for laying and removing mines. Space mines are just
> cheap satellites with one dedicated purpose-detonation. The main extra
> cost for space mines is a powerplant and drive enough to maintain an
> orbit or manuver to a new position. Mines also would require just enough
> brains to be remoted controlled for detonation or manuver.
Unless the detonation powers a det-laser, your mine has to be within
*meters* of the hull to do any damage. In space, that's a bad joke.
Also, since it has a maneuver drive, it's a missile. It just needs to
be a *fast* missile that can lurk well. Pity that hiding is so
difficult in space.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:16:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
In mail you write:
> From: Steven Hudson
>
>> Thus, we end up with all sorts of neat
>> imports/hybrids/inventions from whole cloth (ooh, "revived" _Aztec_
>> spiritualism?! - gotta love those New Age people...).
>
> They're only neat if you're not a victim of them. Rub shoulders with some
> American Indians and ask them what they think of the theft of their various
> religious traditions. It has gotten to the point where modern New Age types
> will actually show up to religious ceremonies and engage in arguments with
> spiritual leaders during those ceremonies. You see, they feel the need to
> tell them how things *should* be done... because they read it in a book
> somewhere.
And these "wannabees" make things *really* difficult for the (much,
*much* smaller) group of people who actually *are* interested in the
religion as a religion, and not as a "fad".
It's gotten to the point where most tribes won't even talk to would-be
converts.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:38:15 +0000
From: Mark Watson
Subject: Re: Marishal material
On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 1/22/00 2:21:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
>
>> Does anyone know who owns the copyright on the Marishal material?
>> Furthermore, does anyone have a complete set which they are willing to
>part
>> with or at least donate photocopies?
>
>I imagine it went to William Keith. I do have/did have permission from Andrew
>Keith to include it on the HIWG CD (it's not on there yet though since my
>wife 'borrowed' my scanner money, plus general lack of time.).
>
>As for photocopies if I can find them something might be arranged.
>
>Bryan
Note there were 4 scotian huntress portfolio scenarios published by Marischal,
but a further 3 (I think) were in the Space Gamer, which at the time was owned
by SJG - can't SJG bring out a collection of Space Gamer Traveller material -
there was a fair amount of Keith Bros stuff.
I have it all, but it would be nice to see it in a collection.
- --
Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:42:16 -0600
From: William Barnett-Lewis
Subject: Re: Rob's Traveller Software
>
> I doubt you need to worry, the dang things don't even have a command
> line! How can you respect an OS without a command line?
>
> Eris
> - --
> - -----------------------------------------------------------
> eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
> - -----------------------------------------------------------
It's called OS X. BSD underneath. BASH runs just fine on it... :>
Mac OS + Command line = Heaven.
William
- --
Live without fear; your Creator loves you | William Barnett-Lewis
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com
road and may God's blessing be with |
you always. |
St. Claire |
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:49:19 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Re Missiles
On 01/22/00 at 11:27 PM, "William F. Hostman" said:
>>Whatever one says about TNE, it had a (slightly awkwardly but completely)
>>integrated scale from personal weapons to starship weapons...GT has this
>>also.
>MT also has a similar scaling approach. Unlike TNE, but like GURPS, there
>are no changes to how to apply the penetration by type of target....
Two points. First, I've never understood why TNE just didn't
(doesn't) use the same penetration method. Second, in case anyone
would like to use GURPS weapons with TNE armor, all you have to do
is multiply the TNE AV by 14 (with T4 multiply by 10).
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:34:38 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: mines
My understanding of advanced TL missiles is that they use a nuclear
detonation to produce an x-ray laser pulse which hits the target. My
recollection (which may indeed be faulty) is that turret missiles are
something like 1 m long and 20 cm in diameter. If we take away the maneuver
part of the missile, which I assuming is a good chunk of it, but keep the
sensors and other necessary stuff, we are left with a very small potential
mine. So we can have very small mines which can be concealed fairly easily,
and which do not need to be very close to damage a target.
How can we use these mines? Perhaps a good use to is to delay a pursuing
attacker. You deploy a large minefield to delay the enemy as you run to jump
away. I am sure that with mines this small, a few tons of cargo space can
probably produce a useful minefield. Particularly with other debris from the
ongoing battle floating around, it may be particularly tricky to spot these
mines.
Maybe you can scatter a large number around your gas giant. If an enemy
tries to refuel, the mines wait until the ships are very close and then
target the maneuver drives, leaving the wounded ship incapable of escaping
the gas giant's gravity.
There must be other uses also. Can anyone think of some particularly clever
ones?
>
> There should be *considerable* differences. To start with, the "mines"
> are going to be small missile platforms, not lumps of explosive. And
> even *with* good stealhing, they'll be detectable as *something*.
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:44:52 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: mines
Luther Martin wrote:
>If we take away the maneuver part of the missile, which I assuming is a
>good chunk of it, but keep the sensors and other necessary stuff, we are
>left with a very small potential mine. So we can have very small mines
>which can be concealed fairly easily, and which do not need to be very
>close to damage a target.
I think you'll still need the maneuver package, simply because space
is so big, and you'll have to do some station-keeping and lining
up on targets. The bigger a maneuver package, the fewer mines you'll
need (as each one has some sprint capabilities that allow it to cover
a larger area of space). Granted, this won't increase the size of the
missile/mine *that* much.
Most of the Traveller missiles I'm familiar with need quite a bit of
support from the launching ship to have a good chance of hitting,
but I'm a Book2/Mayday/High Guard afficianado. These kinds of missiles
might work as "depth charges", dropped out the back to get a shot
at someone *directly* following you, but such a straight-line stern
chase should be rare. Most "chases" are interceptions, with neither
ship starting from the same point and often each having different
accelerations, they will not follow the same course.
If the missile/mines need sensor and guidance support, then they are
used as adjuncts to orbital installations, rather than as area-denial
weapons that you lay and forget.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:10:44 -0800
From: "Fred's Email"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1803
does anyone know where i can get the alien encoutners books for really
cheap?..cause i heard they are being reprinted..but i don't know when they
are coming out and how much they will be...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:50:03 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: CT Reprints
In a message dated 1/23/00 3:40:19 PM Central Standard Time, pnewman@gci.net
writes:
<< Are they all sold or can people still order them?
>>
You can still order them.
get an order blank at
http://members.aol.com/Traveller
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:50:56 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: CT Reprints
In a message dated 1/23/00 5:01:05 PM Central Standard Time,
jzeitlin@cyburban.com writes:
<< Does this imply that someone who didn't order earlier can't order
now, or that the order will have to wait for a second printing
(which printing will be dependent on receiving enough orders), or
are you having a 'surplus' printed to cover additional late
orders? Inquiring minds (who want to order) want to know!
>>
enough have been printed to fill orders for a while.
Marc
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:55:13 GMT
From: "Erick ..."
Subject: alien barbque ad.
>Though I doubt they'd be able to induce two K'Kree to extol the >virtues
>of such a product...
just use computer generated k'kree, much easier to coerce ;) if less
tasty..
erick
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:34:15 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Rob's Traveller Software
On 01/23/00 at 03:36 PM, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>Huh? I vaguely recall being told it'd run on my old Mac Plus system?
>All *I* care about (and all Eris likely cares about) is running the
>Traveller programs. The spreadsheets convert (if you've got recent enough
>PC spreadsheets)
Exactly, and based on what Rob wrote a Mac Plus or better will do.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:09:11 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: mines
Walt Smith wrote:
>
> I think you'll still need the maneuver package, simply because space
> is so big, and you'll have to do some station-keeping and lining
> up on targets. The bigger a maneuver package, the fewer mines you'll
> need (as each one has some sprint capabilities that allow it to cover
> a larger area of space). Granted, this won't increase the size of the
> missile/mine *that* much.
I envision the maneuver capability as only the final pointing for the laser
blast, so it's probably minimal. If you are about 50 cm long, you can easily
fit hundreds of mines in 1 ton of cargo space. You can probably cause some
confusion with that number. Maybe you can even make the mines the same size
as sand canisters, so that you can launch them from the same system.
>
> Most of the Traveller missiles I'm familiar with need quite a bit of
> support from the launching ship to have a good chance of hitting,
> but I'm a Book2/Mayday/High Guard afficianado. These kinds of missiles
> might work as "depth charges", dropped out the back to get a shot
> at someone *directly* following you, but such a straight-line stern
> chase should be rare. Most "chases" are interceptions, with neither
> ship starting from the same point and often each having different
> accelerations, they will not follow the same course.
Book2/Mayday/High Guard? What else is there? The SF Traveller Board Game
this weekend was Brilliant Lances. The level of detail and bookkeeping
required was just too much for a simple guy like myself. Maybe that's why I
am a big fan of CT: I just can't understand the the other rule systems. All
of the space in my cerebral cortex is already allocated, and if I try to
understand MT or TNE, I will forget how to drive my car. If T5 is similar
enough to CT I may be able to get by with just forgetting our anniversary.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:19:25 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
Was written:
Just in this
>> mundane world alone we have several examples of triad groupings.
>> The Christian trinity (Father / Son / Holy Spirit). The Three Kings
>> from the Christian nativity scene. Three cheers (hip-hip-
>> hoorah/hooray). The Three Little Kittens (who have lost their
>> mittens). Rub-a-dub-dub, three men in a tub. My Three Sons. The
>> list goes on...
The Three Stooges, (Classic Stooges Larry, Moe, and Curley); Donald Duck's
nephews(Huey, Dewey and Louie) the three heads of Cebrus; The three men in
the wooden shoe, Winken, Blinken and Nod; the three branchs
of government; saying the name three times to summon; the three fold law of
return; the three fold nature of time (today, tomorrow and yesterday); the
three chipmonks (Alvin, Simon and the other one); the three elves Snap,
Crackle, and Pop, the Ames Brothers, the Marx Brothers ( yes there was a
fourth but not in the movies) the classic three particles of the atom; the
classic three states of matter; the Celtic Trinity, maiden, mother and
hag; the three little pigs; all of Gaul being divided into three parts; the
three worlds/planes of the Norse; the modern world being divided into three
to include THE THIRD WORLD; the three moons of Mars (Phobos, Demos and
Bottommos)....
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:34:02 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: Re: Small change (with Traveller stuff)
In mail you write:
>> On-line shopping is generally cheaper than visiting a store, mainly
because
>> you save the state sales tax (8.25% in California) if you order from a
>> merchant out of state.
>
>Actually, you *don't* "save" the tax. You cheat the state out of it.
>Legally, you owe them the money (the laws actually *do* read that way).
>States have been after mail-order companies regarding this for *years*.
>
>There is some hope. I hear Congress may be considering laws that exampt
>internet transactions from state tax.
I'm afraid that you're behind on the news Leonard. That was in 1998, when
Congress was attempting to "protect the ability of e-business to compete."
Now that e-businesses have proven they can get people to buy from them, and
take customers away from brick-and-mortar stores, Congress is anxious to
assure that the states get their cut. They think Internet buying will be way
bigger than mail order, big enough to take enough tax money out of the
states that the federal government won't be able to offload any more no-cost
mandates on them. So they're busy cobbling together a federal law that will
allow states to require e-companies to collect taxes from their customers
and pay the state that the purchaser lives in. Software companies are
already working on turnkey solutions that will collect the taxes and send
the correct amounts to the proper state.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:46:01 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Mines
Luther Martin wrote:
>I envision the maneuver capability as only the final pointing for the
>laser blast, so it's probably minimal. If you are about 50 cm long, you
>can easily fit hundreds of mines in 1 ton of cargo space. You can
>probably cause some confusion with that number. Maybe you can even make
>the mines the same size as sand canisters, so that you can launch them
>from the same system.
Space is *big*. You'll want some sprint, that det-laser's effective
range isn't going to be line-of-sight. If it were, you'd simply
det your missile warheads the moment they were far enough from your
ship to save you from the blast, and that isn't what happens.
Hundreds of mines over how many thousands of cubic kilometers?
Make 'em sprint...though the idea of a sandcaster variant as a mine
laying device is interesting.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:00:27 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: Mines
I really like Luther's idea of making them sand caster canister size to be
fitted for launch from your sand caster. Hmmm, they could be disguised as
used and discarded sand caster canisters. (Boy that would be tough to say
after a coupla' shooters...) That would help with the stealth problem too.
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Smith, Walter"
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 10:46 PM
Subject: re: Mines
Luther Martin wrote:
Maybe you can even make the mines the same size as sand
canisters, so that you can launch them from the same system.
Walt Smith wrote:
Make 'em sprint...though the idea of a sandcaster variant as a mine
laying device is interesting.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:13:21 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Dune: House Atredies
Dear Folks -
Kiri wrote:
>Oh good! I used to be a huge Dune geek and our old group always thought
>of Dune when we played Traveller...
Where do you thnk Duke Leto Atreides of Tavonni comes from? Oh, sorry, scratch
that, he's now called Count Leto Khaanraarshuinki...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:14:37 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
On 01/23/2000 22:19, Daniel Phelps wrote:
> Was written:
>
> Just in this
>>> mundane world alone we have several examples of triad groupings.
>>> The Christian trinity (Father / Son / Holy Spirit). The Three Kings
>>> from the Christian nativity scene. Three cheers (hip-hip-
>>> hoorah/hooray). The Three Little Kittens (who have lost their
>>> mittens). Rub-a-dub-dub, three men in a tub. My Three Sons. The
>>> list goes on...
>
>
> The Three Stooges, (Classic Stooges Larry, Moe, and Curley); Donald Duck's
> nephews(Huey, Dewey and Louie) the three heads of Cebrus; The three men in
> the wooden shoe, Winken, Blinken and Nod; the three branchs
> of government; saying the name three times to summon; the three fold law of
> return; the three fold nature of time (today, tomorrow and yesterday); the
> three chipmonks (Alvin, Simon and the other one); the three elves Snap,
> Crackle, and Pop, the Ames Brothers, the Marx Brothers ( yes there was a
> fourth but not in the movies) the classic three particles of the atom; the
> classic three states of matter; the Celtic Trinity, maiden, mother and
> hag; the three little pigs; all of Gaul being divided into three parts; the
> three worlds/planes of the Norse; the modern world being divided into three
> to include THE THIRD WORLD; the three moons of Mars (Phobos, Demos and
> Bottommos)....
>
The other chipmunk was/is Theodore.
Since when does Mars have three moons?
Since you're talking in threes, don't forget the original structure of
Minbar's Grey Council...three Workers, three Warriors, three Religious. That
was before Delenn broke the Council during the Shadow War and left it empty
until over a year later, after their Civil War.
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:17:00 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
The "magic" of three in human affairs is pretty simple.
It's the smallest uneven number greater than one. One is unity,
no disagreements. Two can reach impasse on a simple yes/no question.
With Three, assuming no abstentions, at least the simple yes/no
questions can be decided with majority rule.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:29:25 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
>
>
>>Muahahahahaha!
>
>I doubt you need to worry, the dang things don't even have a command
>line! How can you respect an OS without a command line?
>
>Eris
My good man, for people like you there IS A SOLUTION! it is entitled
"!dos", and it is a functional command line interface for the macintosh.
I've used it. It works. It does everything the docs say it does, provided
you manage not to make a typo. It is launched as a macintosh
executeable/application, and overlays a command line interface direct to
finder. Put it into your startup items folder, and you too can have your
mac boot to a command line!
Ob Trav: I suspect the days of a command line interface are likely long
gone as far as ships go.... IMTU, however, you can get a variety of
interfaces for just about any computer of TL8+. TUI, GUI, 3DUI, ATUI,
TTUI... And with holodynamic linked panels, all but the Audible Text User
interface are easily accomplished. I'd been using the reconfigureable
panels schtick since before MT. I felt validated by SSOM on that score...
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1804
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Traveller-digest Monday, January 24 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1805
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Small change (with Traveller stuff)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1801
Re: Every thing In Threes
[none]
RE: Small change
Re: Small change (with Traveller stuff)
Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
Re: Mines
TNE-RCES list?
Re: mines
re: Mines
RE: Small change
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Clothing of the future - three words, plastic p lastic plastic
Hope These Are Prion-Free....
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Metal Storm
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Taskwar subthread: Attributes, Skills & Personality
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
Re: mines
Re: UNCLASSIFIED Clothing of the future - three words, plastic plastic plastic
Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:30:16 -0500
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)"
Subject: Re: Small change (with Traveller stuff)
> >Actually, you *don't* "save" the tax. You cheat the state out of it.
> >Legally, you owe them the money (the laws actually *do* read that way).
> >States have been after mail-order companies regarding this for *years*.
Maine caught onto the fact that a dribble of revenue was slipping away years
ago. Each year I must remit a percentage of my out-of-state spending under
a special category on the forms, "Use Tax". I am instructed to send in 5.5%
sales tax for all retail purchases made outside of the state, whether by
mail order or in person. Just in case I have not kept track, they have a
helpful table for the minimum amount I should remit. It is approximately
.04% of my adjusted gross income. My enterprising state has already found a
way to collect taxes on my out-of-state purchases, whether I have made any
or not!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:32:35 +1100
From: "JAMES M GRACE"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1801
UNSUBSCRIBE TRAVELLER-DIGEST
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:43:57 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes
>The Three Stooges, (Classic Stooges Larry, Moe, and Curley); Donald Duck's
>nephews(Huey, Dewey and Louie) the three heads of Cebrus; The three men in
>the wooden shoe, Winken, Blinken and Nod; the three branchs
>of government; saying the name three times to summon; the three fold law of
>return; the three fold nature of time (today, tomorrow and yesterday); the
>three chipmonks (Alvin, Simon and the other one);
Theodore.
>the three elves Snap,
>Crackle, and Pop, the Ames Brothers, the Marx Brothers ( yes there was a
>fourth but not in the movies)
Actually, Zeppo Marx (the fourth Marx Brother) appeared in a handful of
the Marx Bros. early films along with his brothers Groucho, Chico, and
Harpo. A fifth, Gummo, never appeared on film but did appear with the
others in their pre-film vaudeville days.
>the classic three particles of the atom; the
>classic three states of matter; the Celtic Trinity, maiden, mother and
>hag; the three little pigs; all of Gaul being divided into three parts; the
>three worlds/planes of the Norse; the modern world being divided into three
>to include THE THIRD WORLD; the three moons of Mars (Phobos, Demos and
>Bottommos)....
... a reference to a not-well-known Isaac Asimov short story...
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:42:08 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: [none]
>(Shudder)
>As an Anglican (aka Episcopalian here in the US), from history I know which
>is more dangerous. The Jesuits have always cared about what they see as
>truth and actually tend to be scientists themselves; whereas there is a
>reason that the Domine Canes (sp? No latin books handy to check, alas...)
>have that name.
Try Domincans, as in "The order of St. Dominic", or "Property of Dominic"
In latin, it was Ordo Presbyteri Dominicanes, IIRC. They go by the moniker
of "Order of Preachers". Yes, they lead the initial stages of the
Inquisition. Torquemada, however, was diocessesan... as were most of those
involved in the later (and better known) stages...
Now those Jesuits ("The Society of Jesus" or "Comtes Jesus"(sp) being their
full and official title) have in their charter to be the "sword arm of the
church" and are the last surviving "militant order" of priests in union
with rome.... That being said, I find it VERY curious that all the
"Guerilla Monasteries" in south america were Jesuits.... Also, I've yet to
meet a Jesuit who doesn't know how to fence...
Ob Trav: The Cutlas Tradition comes from Infiltration of
the Imperial Marine Corps by Jesuit Chaplains teaching Fencing in
Basic..... Muhahahahaha....
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:44:02 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: RE: Small change
Dear Folks -
Frank asked:
>> What gets me is that (here in NZ, anyway) all WINZ payments
>> (unemployment benefit, sickness benefit, superannuation, etc, etc)
>> are direct credited to a bank account - no exceptions.
>
>Hmm, and what do they do for those that don't have any banks within a day's
>walk ?
Probably say, "Tough!". Anyway, I thought there was almost no govt left in NZ?!
(outsourced, big business runs the place, etc ;-) ;-)
In our case (Oz), every post office is an agent for the Commonwealth Bank.
And/or they have Giropost available. Remote outback stations also have
arrangements where they will cash your cheque. And in any case, we have the
highest number of ATM's/EFTPOS per capita, and even the outback stations have
'em!
Biggest problem with totally getting rid of cheques where I work is the o/s
clients - the country with the largest number of o/s clients, Greece, has no
central banking system. We simply *cannot* make direct credit payments to
Greece, because there is no electronic distribution system.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:57:01 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Small change (with Traveller stuff)
> Actually, you *don't* "save" the tax. You cheat the state out of it.
And this is a bad thing?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:17:21 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
Dear Folks -
Rob asked:
>Is it just me, or has Traveller had way too many
>definitions of space missiles?
Of _anything_, Rob, of _anything_...
>Thus 10 battledressed Marines can do 1 hull point of
>damage to a starship with their PCMPs. The same
>goes for 10 generic aircraft missiles.
>
>Anyone else have to deal with these unwritten rules?
Then you have to use the "100 HP will breach a hull, 1000 HP will create a
man-sized hole" rules. Or just shoot at the windows (pinpoint hit) and say the
armour class is halved.
Anyway, all of this is why in MT, I divide the published ship weapon "ground
combat" damage by 10 (this includes all of Bill Hostman's otherwise excellent
extrapolated MT ship weapons tables).
Natch, people will disagree. Those who thrashed out the T4 ship weapons state
that ship weapons are vastly different to tank weapons. A T4/TNE/FF&S ship's
laser fires a beam a metre across, while in the same system a tank weapon's beam
is centimetres across.
Since I use MT, I said "bugger that for playability", and compared a Pen 76 tank
weapon with a low-tech ship's weapon. I noticed that the tank does 30 dice of
damage, while the ship did about 500 dice. Dividing by 10 drops the ship's
weapon to 50 dice of damage, which - for my money - is still better than the
tank, while remaining in the same order of magnitude.
YMMV. As for me, I got browned-off on "mega-damage" weapons the time I played
Rifts. Well, even D&D has "structural hit points" - bleah!. It's an example of
rule system escalation that is really not necessary - other options can produce
the effects desired.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:17:39 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Mines
I think that I recall from Brilliant Lances that advanced TL missiles
detonate 2 hexes away from their target, or about 60,000 km. So a spacing of
one mine every 30,000 km will probably give you good coverage. Whether you
can actually do this will probably depend on the tactical situation. You can
probably get it if you are trying to stop a pursuit by the bad guys.
If your mines are smart, so that they will only target certain classes of
ships, or target only certain ship systems, they can wait until they are
fairly close. This may be the area in which mines really pay off: causing
selective damage. At normal engagement ranges, you are lucky to hit a
ship-sized target, so your chance of causing any selective damage is
probably small. If you are very close, on the other hand, you can probably
do it.
(Digression caused by discussion of hit probabilities.) In general, other
factors remaining the same, large ships are at a definate disadvantage in
space combat by virtue of being larger targets. If you assume that only
random acceleration during the light-speed lag between target sensing and
your laser pulse hitting the target will save the target from being hit,
smaller is definately better. A comparison of the probability to hit a large
ship, say with an effective radius of 20 m, to the probability to hit a
small fighter, say with an effective radius of 1.5 m is very interesting.
The weapon system on the fighter is many times more effective than the
system on the larger ship. This, of course, is why fighters exist. The
optimal strategy for fighting a space battle is to engage the enemy at the
longest possible range with the smallest ships capable of damaging him.
>
> Space is *big*. You'll want some sprint, that det-laser's effective
> range isn't going to be line-of-sight. If it were, you'd simply
> det your missile warheads the moment they were far enough from your
> ship to save you from the blast, and that isn't what happens.
>
> Hundreds of mines over how many thousands of cubic kilometers?
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:32:04 -0800
From: Snake Eyes
Subject: TNE-RCES list?
Can anyone tell me how to get on the TNE-RCES mailing list, assuming of
course that it still exists? I get a bounce message when attempting to
subscribe via the "listproc@tower.ml.org" address listed in the FAQ, and
that info seems to be kind of dated anyway. If anyone can tell me where
the list moved to, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks in advance and sorry
for the bandwidth.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:44:40 -0800
From: "Bruce Macintosh"
Subject: Re: mines
>There should be *considerable* differences. To start with, the "mines"
>are going to be small missile platforms, not lumps of explosive. And
>even *with* good stealhing, they'll be detectable as *something*.
Detonation lasers make excellent mines - few thousand up to 30,000 km
effective range. With agressive stealth, small warship sensors might have
trouble seeing them at ranges past their detonation range (not sure of the
exact numbers because I've never done the calculation, but it's a good
bet.) One would have to have a dedicated larger minesweeper with a folding
sensor array. The range is long enough that they can effectively control space
around a gas giant or be part of the defences of a mainworld. In both cases,
they could be hidden - among a ring or orbital debris respectively.
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:52:53 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Mines
Luther Martin wrote:
>If your mines are smart, so that they will only target certain classes
>of ships, or target only certain ship systems, they can wait until they
>are fairly close.
Define "close". Even at 10,000km, that intruding starship is pretty much
a point target. A 15cm missile doesn't have the sensor aperture to do
much analysis & selection (or even initial detection!) with a target
like that.
As for making the mines smart enough to pick ship classes or target
certain ship systems on their own, remember that quirky little detail
of Traveller technology: for some reason, Traveller computers are
really, really big. If this detail is in place IYTU, your mines need
to get a lot bigger, and actually be missile firing platforms
instead of individual missiles/mines. Of course, they could be missile
*control* platforms, with the missiles/mines already lying doggo
throughout the platform's area of responsibility.
Luther again:
>This may be the area in which mines really pay off: causing
>selective damage. At normal engagement ranges, you are lucky to hit a
>ship-sized target, so your chance of causing any selective damage is
>probably small. If you are very close, on the other hand, you can >probably
do it.
I think you're still seeing a dense sea of mines here. How close
is "close"? One mine per 30,000km hex might be "close" to something in
that hex, but I don't see it as "very close".
It takes a helluva lot of mines to fill a 30,000km hex, even in 2D,
so that the mines are even 100km from each other. I don't grok the
numbers well enough, though others here do, for finding out how close
a detlaser would have to be to give a reasonable chance of selecting
parts of a target.
Historically, mines were good at two things: causing damage and
threatening damage. IIRC, they were best at the latter - movement
denied and morale reduced by the threat of these mechanical ambushes.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:07:58 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Small change
> >Hmm, and what do they do for those that don't have any banks
> within a day's
> >walk ?
>
> Probably say, "Tough!". Anyway, I thought there was almost no
> govt left in NZ?!
> (outsourced, big business runs the place, etc ;-) ;-)
Yeah, that's what I expect.
> In our case (Oz), every post office is an agent for the Commonwealth Bank.
In NZ, the post office has been deregulated and is no longer 'special'. The
banking facilities of the old post office are (were?) a seperate bank, I
think they may hav been bought by the ANZ bank
You're probbaly more likley to find a bank in a NZ town than Post Office
these days, as most post offices are franchised out to small stores or
garages, and have very few postal facilities except a few stamps and a post
box.
> And in any case, we have the
> highest number of ATM's/EFTPOS
> per capita
Hmm, I though New Zealand had that record.
, and even the outback
> stations have 'em!
Even our second hand stores, taxis, and milkmen have them !
It's getting so a retail or service company can't exist in New Zealand
without having EFTPOS.
> Biggest problem with totally getting rid of cheques where I work
> is the o/s clients - the country with the largest number of o/s clients,
> Greece, has no
> central banking system. We simply *cannot* make direct credit payments to
> Greece, because there is no electronic distribution system.
Thing that pisses me of is the cost for sending money overseas
electronically, $25 a time !
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:54:33 +1100
From: "Hughes, Michael"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Clothing of the future - three words, plastic p lastic plastic
Dang, I'm not sure who wrote below snip so apologies for non reference.
Hands up who didn't consider the female population when they thought of
coverall's
Yeah, hi tech spacer clothing would probably come up with the re-sealable
seal for below hygiene purposes that is to all intents and purposes
invisible and does not affect structural integrity save when used - and it
would get rid of that pesky zipper fly too boot (as Seinfeld said - that's
the area I'd least like to have metal jaws around). Of course, tech 15 vacc
suits being what they are would probably have this facility for in ship wear
as well as a plug on attachment for EVA's . . . ye olde cod piece.
This 'invisible seam' might also be useful for Clandestine stuff - eg carry
a pistol in a shoulder holster under a pull-over or coveralls and when the
weapon is required, a handy flap flaps open to gain access to said weapon.
It could even be the ultimate pocket flap - no opening unless the wearer
runs his/her finger along where the opening will open. I think IISS Utility
vests worked along these lines.
Now as for hi tech panty-hose I have no idea.
Michael
Sitting down to pee. Which means that you have to take off *all* of the
%^^$#$% coveralls except maybe the part below your knees. And unless this is
a spotless fresher cubicle, as opposed to a typical public restroom, you'll
take the *whole* coverall off and hang it from the hook that is (hopefully)
on the back of the door so none of it gets trailed in the "stuff" on the
floor. And then you get to try to figure out how to put it back on *without*
getting any of the "stuff" that's sticking to your shoes transferred to the
*inside* of your coverall. Have fun.
Do this a few times and your opinion of coveralls will be unprintable.
Now, with future tech, it may be possible to make coveralls with a
resealable *waist* seam. *That* would work. I'm not so sure about a "crotch
seam".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 01:34:04 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Hope These Are Prion-Free....
Since we've been talking about prion-related diseases recently, it just
seemed reasonable to post this URL (I got it from SJG's _Daily
Illuminator_):
http://www.brains4zombies.com/
If they aren't, see
http://www.bioscience.org/guides/cjd.htm
for suspected prion-related autopsy guidelines.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:32:28 +1100
From: "Hughes, Michael"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Metal Storm
I know it's not a 'rail-gun', but this Australian ('Oi Oi Oi') 'in
development' projectile weapon uses electricity to ignite charges leading to
some hefty RPM . . . and chews through ammo as a result - but if the PR spin
is half as good as it suggets, what a result!
http://www.charpac.com.au/investments/metalstorm_technical.html
BTW This is my opinion etc, not that of ADOD. Apologies if already
discussed.
Michael Hughes
Knowledge Edge Engagement Policy & US/NZ Team
International Policy Division
Australian Defence Headquarters
Australian Department of Defence
Phone (B): (02) 6265 6112
Phone (H): (02) 6296 1055
Fax: (02) 6265 7225
Email: michael.hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 01:29:49 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich"
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
> Yes, both I and the friend I worked with on the background are actually
the
> result of a Jesuit education. A few of the other players in our gaming
group
> are as well. Our cyberpunk Jesuits were based firmly in what we had
> experienced from day to day in reality. :)
One of the motivations I have for putting together my Dark Imperium material
is from my experience working for a Catholic diocese in the past five years.
... Bishops, priests, and nuns, oh my! ;-)
Ciao,
Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 01:16:12 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich"
Subject: Re: Taskwar subthread: Attributes, Skills & Personality
>> Now, in FUDGE, attributes are a bit more blobby; it's
>> not certain what they really are.
>
> No, in FUDGE Attributes are the innate potentials for the character
> just like in Traveller. The big difference is that there is no
> specified set of Attributes required. The GM can specify the
> Attributes she wants to have in her game.
Yes. In FUDGE, an Attribute is simply a Trait that *all* characters in a
campaign world have, and the GM can take her pick. A Skill is a Trait that
must be learned or otherwise aquired.
In my FUDGE games I typically use the following attributes:
Attribute Description
- ---------------------------------------
Dexterity ...... me agile (or not)
Health ......... me hale (or not)
Strength ....... me mighty (or not)
Intelligence ... me smart (or not)
Knowledge ...... me educated (or not)
Perception ..... me sharp-eyed (or not)
Charisma ....... me likeable (or not)
Willpower ...... me motivated (or not)
For FUDGE Traveller, I'd tag on "Status -- me rich (or not)."
Ciao,
Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:29:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
In mail you write:
> (Shudder)
> As an Anglican (aka Episcopalian here in the US), from history I know which
> is more dangerous. The Jesuits have always cared about what they see as
> truth and actually tend to be scientists themselves; whereas there is a
> reason that the Domine Canes (sp? No latin books handy to check, alas...)
> have that name.
I thought that it was because their founder was St. Dominic?
But even if it was, I *can* see a "Hounds of God" nickname evolving
from that.
> Which leads me to another thought; what about us liberal urban christians?
> There are a couple of us around... trying...
> :>
Yes, very trying... :-)
Want some fun? Try imagining what the Unitarian Universalist Church
will have evolved into by 1100 Imperial.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:46:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
In mail you write:
>> three worlds/planes of the Norse; the modern world being divided into
Actually, the Norse had *nine* worlds (3x3)
> three
>> to include THE THIRD WORLD; the three moons of Mars (Phobos, Demos and
>> Bottommos)....
>>
> The other chipmunk was/is Theodore.
>
> Since when does Mars have three moons?
Bottomos is from an old SF story. Complete silliness and much fun.
Basicly, it was incredibly massive, about a yard across, and orbiting
about a meter above ground level...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:00:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
In mail you write:
> Anyway, all of this is why in MT, I divide the published ship weapon "ground
> combat" damage by 10 (this includes all of Bill Hostman's otherwise excellent
> extrapolated MT ship weapons tables).
>
> Natch, people will disagree. Those who thrashed out the T4 ship weapons state
> that ship weapons are vastly different to tank weapons. A T4/TNE/FF&S ship's
> laser fires a beam a metre across, while in the same system a tank weapon's
> beam is centimetres across.
Well, just consider the difference between the power plant you can cram
into a tank, and the one you can cram into a spinal mount.
Or check the real world. Tank guns back in to old days went up to
around 90-100 mm. Battleship guns went up to 500 mm. And some of the
*big* guns went higher than *that* (coast defense, that German monster
that used shells the size of tanks...)
Also, read David Drake's "Forlorn Hope" for an example of *why* folks
who don't have starships *really& don't want to be shooting atr them.
Basicly, a starship gets used as a "megaweapon" to bombard ground
forces. A new crewman on a merc unit's *big* artillery device happens
to be sitting at the controls and *recognize* the initial reentry
flash. He flips the gun to anti-air mode and starts it shooting.
It gets a lucky hit and *kills* the starship.
This means that the enemy is out a billion credit starship. And they
aren't happy. The amnesty that gets proclaimed (the ship *did* mangle
the rebel forces pretty good) *specifically* doesn't include the unit
that shot down the starship.
The rest of the book is the mercs trying to escape and evade to a
neutral port so they can get offworld.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:48:21 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair"
Subject: Re: mines
I recall with fondness one of the things I had in my pocket, playing as
Serendip Belt in a TCS campaign long ago (then I left the game and Serendip
promptly self-destructed in the hands of the new player, but that's another
story):
Under High Guard/TCS rules, planetoid hulls are free and missile turrets
require no power. So I sprinkled missile planetoids (a triple missile
turret, plus a robot brain with Gunner skill and solar panels to power
same) all throughout the Belt and around the planets we'd annexed. Those
things were CHEAP, so I had *millions* of them.
Pity I never got to use them. I would have loved to have seen the look on
someone's face when his flagship was fired upon by a THOUSAND triple
missile turrets.
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "Mr. Barris, I was. Not aware that. Two members of
kellys@efn.org Team, Rocket... constitutesaswarm."
-- Captain James Kirk, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 01:13:42 -0800
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan"
Subject: Re: UNCLASSIFIED Clothing of the future - three words, plastic plastic plastic
From: Hughes, Michael
>Now as for hi tech panty-hose I have no idea.
>
It's OK, if I never have to wear pantyhose again I will be MORE than happy.
Tights when it's cold, sure, but I hate pantyhose.
Kiri =)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God...
tiamat@tsoft.com
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is
sacred somewhere. There's
a deity out there who digs it. You can respect and love your darkest side,
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical. It's all about giving
yourself permission."
-- Jack Darkhand
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:25:18 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
"Daniel Phelps" wrote:
>the classic three particles of the atom; the classic three states of
matter;...
It seems odd to include only the "classic" three states of matter when the
fourth (and fifth?) states were discovered about the same time as the third
of the "classic" three particles of the atom.
You'd be better off with the "classic" humours of the body or fundamental
elements...
except that there are four of each of them.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1805
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Traveller-digest Monday, January 24 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1806
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: UNCLASSIFIED Clothing of the future - three words, plastic plastic plastic
re: Mines
Re: Mines
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: mines
Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
Re: mines
Conspiracy campaign idea (was: Traveller without psionics)
Re: Every thing In Threes
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re Small Sophonts
new trav player needs...
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1805
RE: Dimorphism
RE: How small can a sophont be?
Spinward Marches World Data (was Smashed Creativity)
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: Reference Material for G:T Aliens 4
Once again...
Re: Reference Material for G:T Aliens 4
Official Nonspace vs Space Weapons Debate Thread for 2000
Advice for Micah
Advice to Micah thread
RE: Conspiracy campaign idea (was: Traveller without psionics)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:35:31 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: UNCLASSIFIED Clothing of the future - three words, plastic plastic plastic
>On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
>
> >Now as for hi tech panty-hose I have no idea.
> >
> It's OK, if I never have to wear pantyhose again I will be MORE
> than happy.
> Tights when it's cold, sure, but I hate pantyhose.
Imagine a form of all-over, 'skin-tight' clothing that not only acts a
24-bit LCD display connected to an integral CPU and RAM powered by static
electricity to allow constantly changing coloured patterns or even video to
be displayed across your skin surface, but also on command retract from any
particular part of the body you require in manner similar to a liquid flow.
This integral bioform clothing and protection system is able to, in an
emergency, provide basic 'elastic' style vacc-suit capability, and generate
a reflective surface acting as Reflec armour
At the same, time it's self-sealing properties allow emergency blood-loss
control, and the integral semsor unit will perform appropriate medical
diagnostics, call for medical support if required, and inform the medic of
the location and extent of injuries
For cleaning anbd other purposes the entire suit will fall off the body on
command (yeah, alright, I know what hacker nerds will do with that one) and
can be placed in any standard ultrasonic washing machine.
TL 13 ?
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:36:14 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Mines
>From: "Smith, Walter"
>Subject: re: Mines
...
>As for making the mines smart enough to pick ship classes or target
>certain ship systems on their own, remember that quirky little detail
>of Traveller technology: for some reason, Traveller computers are
>really, really big. If this detail is in place IYTU, your mines need
Striker seems to support the case that starship computers include the
volume for either sensors and/or crew stations; actual guidance packages
for tac, air-to-air, or drone missiles (including homing, and fire and
forget target ID sets) run only a few kg in most cases.
And you could always build a SS3 missile with a Ship's Boat-4 integral
robot to conduct boarding maneuvers :)
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:36:27 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Mines
>From: "Luther Martin"
>Subject: Re: Mines
>
>I think that I recall from Brilliant Lances that advanced TL missiles
>detonate 2 hexes away from their target, or about 60,000 km. So a spacing of
>one mine every 30,000 km will probably give you good coverage. Whether you
>can actually do this will probably depend on the tactical situation. You can
>probably get it if you are trying to stop a pursuit by the bad guys.
Which means that only a handful of such mines can create a good chance of
engaging around a normal world. OTOH, a gas giant system can be impractical
to handle when you allow for its own moons, and that's even before the issue
of the strategic depth of the mine array arises (a 2-D set-up clearly isn't
suitable).
I wonder what the attrition rate of objects in polar orbits are going to
be for gas giants with "normal" bands of trash and gravel?
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:36:52 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
>From: "Chris Seamans"
>Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
...
>> More seriously, the Catholic church at least will eventually escape
>> the albatross of an absurdly conservative (reactionary?) Pope,
>> although they'll need God's help if they get a similar replacement.
>
>There's always the possibility that there will be a shift in Western culture
>away from liberalism. At that point, a conservative Pope would no longer be
>an "albatross", but would actually become an asset.
Almost anything is possible, but I'm accepting the conventional wisdom
that I've heard oft-repeated that the current papal policies are costing
the Church adherents, or at least making many of the faithful dissidents
in private.
>> Thus, we end up with all sorts of neat
>> imports/hybrids/inventions from whole cloth (ooh, "revived" _Aztec_
>> spiritualism?! - gotta love those New Age people...).
>
>They're only neat if you're not a victim of them. Rub shoulders with some
I'm being somewhat sarcastic, of course. I've heard some nice stories about
said sorts of flakes at sites in Central America, and I'm sure that there
are even better ones that I'm missing due to professionals discretion.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:37:15 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: mines
>Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:48:21 -0800
>From: "Kelly St.Clair"
>Subject: Re: mines
...
>Under High Guard/TCS rules, planetoid hulls are free and missile turrets
>require no power. So I sprinkled missile planetoids (a triple missile
>turret, plus a robot brain with Gunner skill and solar panels to power
>same) all throughout the Belt and around the planets we'd annexed. Those
>things were CHEAP, so I had *millions* of them.
While I'm sure that can be done under all sorts of rules, the logic of
it gets very dodgy once the underlying physics is examined.
And robot brains are something you want to be careful with in Traveller :)
>Pity I never got to use them. I would have loved to have seen the look on
>someone's face when his flagship was fired upon by a THOUSAND triple
>missile turrets.
Strangely, I never thought of this scam for my recent run as a Serendip
player in TCS :( OTOH, I did design my capital ships such that - given a
Model/3 comp in each satellite/mine - you'd need ~1500 to score a damaging
hit each turn.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 03:50:15 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair"
Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
On Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:46:46 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
Erickson) wrote:
>>> to include THE THIRD WORLD; the three moons of Mars (Phobos, Demos and
>>> Bottommos)....
>>
>> Since when does Mars have three moons?
>
>Bottomos is from an old SF story. Complete silliness and much fun.
>Basicly, it was incredibly massive, about a yard across, and orbiting
>about a meter above ground level...
Yeah, that's pretty damn silly. I've heard about that story before... so
that was Asimov that came up with it, huh?
Assuming for the moment that there are no mascons ("mass concentrations",
as charted by various Moon-orbiting spacecraft back in the 1960s) to
distort Bottommos's path, it's going to be subject to considerable
atmospheric drag at sea level, even in Mars's thin air. That drag should
have caused it to deorbit long ago: first brushing the surface, then
skidding along it (digging a nice groove), and then...
Well, I leave the effects of a neutronium sphere slamming into Mars and
transferring most of its orbital momentum to the crust to your imagination.
(And you thought beanstalk accidents were unpleasant.)
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "Mr. Barris, I was. Not aware that. Two members of
kellys@efn.org Team, Rocket... constitutesaswarm."
-- Captain James Kirk, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:27:48 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: mines
kellys@mailhost.efn.org wrote:
>Under High Guard/TCS rules, planetoid hulls are free and missile turrets
>require no power. So I sprinkled missile planetoids (a triple missile
>turret, plus a robot brain with Gunner skill and solar panels to power
That's a small ship with a model/1 computer and no bridge?
Missile factor in the 2-4 range?
It's cheap but it's not free, a couple of MCr each.
If you check High Guard, I think you'll discover that against a decent
warship, it will inflict percisely zero damage because it can't hit.
(The Imperial 50 ton fighter is an excellent examnple of something
that is can't hit.)
TL12 warships might not count as decent on this scale, however.
By contrast, the -2 size mods counts for nothing with effective
computer 0, agility 0. Killing these is an excercise in zero risk
dice rolling boredom.
:-)
>same) all throughout the Belt and around the planets we'd annexed. Those
>things were CHEAP, so I had *millions* of them.
A couple of Trillion credits for a static defence that is as effective in
an average battle as a single 10 ton Gnat?
>Pity I never got to use them. I would have loved to have seen the look on
>someone's face when his flagship was fired upon by a THOUSAND triple
>missile turrets.
I refer you to the "space is big" entry in the guide.
Scattering them thoughout the belt wouldn't put more than one or two into
a battle, concentrating them would limit where you could fight since they
can't manoeuvre to follow the battle.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:01:13 +0000
From: Andy Coombes
Subject: Conspiracy campaign idea (was: Traveller without psionics)
Robert O'Connor wrote:
>Weird Trav meme :- all these starships moving through jumpspace may one
>day cause uncontrolled large scale deformation of the space-time
>continuum, leading to something like Cynthia Higginbotham's alternate
>collapse. Restrict access to jumpspace!
Actually this seems like a brilliant basis for a large conspiracy-type
campaign:
A famous scientist approaches the PCs. He tells them that preliminary
research results from Imperial Research Station Iota (which specialises
in jump-space research) has shown that each Jump that is made causes
an irreversable change to be made to the space-time continuum. Eventually,
this will result in "damage" to the Universe (ranging from something
minor, like non-stick pans becoming sticky to the complete heat-death
of the Universe). He claims that these results are being suppressed,
and that the results need to be publicised.
There could be several reasons:
1. The scientist is a complete wacko.
2. The results are wrong, but the Imperium needs to suppress them in case
they affect trade.
3. The results arise from a hiver manipulation - why are the cuddly starfish
trying to stop us from using jumpspace?
4. The results are correct, but the Imperium is trying to suppress them.
5. The results are correct, other vested interests are trying to suppress
them.
6. Some other reason.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:17:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton
Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes
Howdy!
> >The Three Stooges, (Classic Stooges Larry, Moe, and Curley); Donald Duck's
> >nephews(Huey, Dewey and Louie) the three heads of Cebrus; The three men in
> >the wooden shoe, Winken, Blinken and Nod; the three branchs
> >of government; saying the name three times to summon; the three fold law of
> >return; the three fold nature of time (today, tomorrow and yesterday); the
> >three chipmonks (Alvin, Simon and the other one);
>
let us not forget the people who seem to have signed so many drivers'
licenses: The Pep Boys, Manny, Moe, and Jack
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:59:33 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
Rupert Boleyn writes:
>>Also thought by some to be among the worlds dumbest
>>mammals. This goes back to the question about what is
>>a sophont.
>Anyone who thinks that hasn't had much contact with domestic
>sheep. Though IMO a lot of this is because cows and sheep aren't
>very expressive (unlike horses, which IME are probably at least as
>thick) and don't _do_ much.
I did say "among" :)
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:05:22 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re Small Sophonts
William F. Hostman writes:
>There have been many articles in various places that point out
>that, if selecting for ability to increase brain size, marsupials
>have it all over internal-gestation or egg-laying:
This is a very good point, and is one more potential cost to
increased brain size. On the other hand, a marsupial "baby"
will have to spend more time living on the outside of its
mother to grow a large brain. This may entail higher risk
to the baby. Incidentally, the three major groups of mammals
are called monotremes (duck-billed platypus and echidna),
marsupials (kangaroos, etc.), and placentals (you and me, plus
a few others).
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:08:11 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: new trav player needs...
From: "Fred's Email"
i got my traveller starter set thingy today..its awesome..i can't wait to
start up the game...now i'm going to start taking in material of my own and
stuff...alright....the stuff i have so far is the Rules Booklet....the
tables and charts booklet...the mithrel/shadow adventure...and the maps for
it if i need to get anything else...please contact me and tell me what i
should get to make my traveller experience better...
A pack of bubblegum, a FGMP-15, and a really good pair of Mirrorshades?
Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
"OK, so what's the speed of dark?"
Reknown Physist/Comedian Steven Wright
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:09:51 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1805
In a message dated 00-01-24 04:29:11 EST, you write:
<< > >Actually, you *don't* "save" the tax. You cheat the state out of it.
> >Legally, you owe them the money (the laws actually *do* read that way).
> >States have been after mail-order companies regarding this for *years*.
Maine caught onto the fact that a dribble of revenue was slipping away years
ago. Each year I must remit a percentage of my out-of-state spending under
a special category on the forms, "Use Tax". I am instructed to send in 5.5%
sales tax for all retail purchases made outside of the state, whether by
mail order or in person. Just in case I have not kept track, they have a
helpful table for the minimum amount I should remit. It is approximately
.04% of my adjusted gross income. My enterprising state has already found a
way to collect taxes on my out-of-state purchases, whether I have made any
or not! >>
Illinois did the same thing (at least they did a couple of years ago). So
far, Texas hasn't mentioned it to me . . .
Loren Wiseman
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:13:06 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Dimorphism
William F. Hostman"
Subject:
>Leonard Erickson writes:
>>>In every Terrestrial species that might even possibly be
>>>sentient, with the exception of dolphins, the male is larger
>>>than the female. AFAIK, dolphins are the same size
>>>regardless of sex.
>>Tell that to the next bear you meet. :-)
>
> AFAIK, male bears are generally larger than females, but I
> could be wrong.
>
>Peez
And is wrong, at least for the Kodiak Grizzly and the Polar. Dimorphism
ammongst Grizzly populations shows males tend to be no larger than females
in general, but the largets females are larger than the largest males...
Polar bears have clear male dimorphism according to the show "The Ultimate
Guide to Bears" as well as the local Zoo... Home of Binkey the Brit Eater.
William F. Hostman | "
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:13:06 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: How small can a sophont be?
Frank G. Pitt writes:
>There are even theories that _we_ are descended from "proto-birds".
>This is based on the reason for our intelligence being the
>processing power required for using our eyes
There are also theories that we have descended from lost
telephone sanitizers from Golgafrincham. :)
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:10:55 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: Spinward Marches World Data (was Smashed Creativity)
(Best example: the world of Craw was detailed in two complete articles by
the Keith brothers, complete with map. All of that excellent work was
ignored in the description in BtC.)
And WHERE was this information? I'd love to get it on file...
Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
"I almost had a psionic girlfriend but she left me before we met..."
- ------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:17:47 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
David J. Golden writes:
>>Arguably, it takes more intelligence to catch something than
>>it does to get away, but in any event the carnivore is (on
>>average) more dependant on catching prey than the prey is
>>on escaping: the prey will only have to escape occasionally
>>while the predator will have to catch prey pretty much
>>every time it wants to eat. It can also be argued that
>Er, I'd figure it exactly the other way around ... the herbivore
>has to escape EVERY time or it's dead, while the carnivore only
>has to catch occasionally.
The herbivore has to escape every time that it is attacked,
but it is not attacked nearly as often as the predator must
eat.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:46:53 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer"
Subject: Re: Reference Material for G:T Aliens 4
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:24:53 +1100
> From: "Robert O'Connor"
> To: TML
> Subject: Reference Material for G:T Aliens 4
> Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Could someone please contact me off list if they can provide me with
> any of the following articles :-
>
> Challenge 39 - Hinterworlds material (and alien races)
> Challenge 56 - Ahetaowa
> Challenge 75 - Peth
> JTAS 16 - Githiaskio
> JTAS 21 - Gifug'kagh
> JTAS 22 - Hlanassi
> Glimmerdrift Reaches - Danin
> Double Adventure 5 - the Chamaxi
> Double Adventure 6 - J'aadje
> The Traveller Adventure - passages dealing with Ebokin, Llellewlowy,
> etc.
> Adventure 10 - Shriekers
>
> N.B. If anyone else on the list has already submitted a successful
> proposal to SJG,
> let me know, so I can stop scribbling and trying to work out who to
> contact to get permission from...
>
> Robert O'Connor
> Medico, Gamer
>
>
- -----------------------------------------------
Carlos Alos-Ferrer
Department of Economics, University of Vienna.
Hohenstaufengasse, 9. 1010 Vienna (Austria)
Tlf: (+43-1) 4277 37438 Fax: (+43-1) 4277 9374
- -----------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:47:24 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Once again...
Freefall has identified one of the most important pieces of equipment on a
PC's ship.
http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/ff300/fv00285.htm
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/ Opinions Mine!
COFFEE.EXE Missing - Insert Cup and Press Any Key.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:49:55 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer"
Subject: Re: Reference Material for G:T Aliens 4
> N.B. If anyone else on the list has already submitted a successful
> proposal to SJG, let me know, so I can stop scribbling and trying to work out who to
> contact to get permission from...
> Robert O'Connor
AFAIK Mr. Wiseman accepted my proposal. Guess it's better so,
since I am already working on it.
Carlos Alos-Ferrer
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:09:15 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Official Nonspace vs Space Weapons Debate Thread for 2000
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> > Natch, people will disagree. Those who thrashed out the T4 ship weapons state
> > that ship weapons are vastly different to tank weapons. A T4/TNE/FF&S ship's
> > laser fires a beam a metre across, while in the same system a tank weapon's
> > beam is centimetres across.
> Or check the real world. Tank guns back in to old days went up to
> around 90-100 mm. Battleship guns went up to 500 mm. And some of the
> *big* guns went higher than *that* (coast defense, that German monster
> that used shells the size of tanks...)
So then, it seems possible and reasonable, though not certain,
that spaceship weaponry is in general perhaps 4-5x more powerful
or damaging than infantry and air weaponry. Therefore, four or
five PCMPs could score a point of damage against a starship hull,
or one PCMP could score a hit on a roll of 4- on 2D.
Also, then, perhaps 4 or 5 aircraft missiles could score a hull
hit on a starship.
This implies "weak" starship weaponry. Anyone hate the idea?
It sounds bad, until you realize that ordinary merchants still
have weaponry equal to several battledressed marines or a
squad of COACC fighters, while military ships will still have
devastating weaponry: for instance, a 3-2-0-0 laser does more
damage than 12 marines.
So then, I can see a 1-0-0-0 laser destroying my house in one
shot. I see some walls still standing, but the whole thing
pretty rubbled. Now I picture a squad of battledressed Marines
sporting PCMP-13s. They fire simulataneously, and my house
once again is rubbled to approximately the same level of
destruction, though of course there may be some different
special effects going on. Sounds okay to me.
The downside of it is, that last week the guy who was playing
the battlesuited marines suffered greatly because we set his
firepower at 1/8 that of a starship's laser.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:22:12 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: Advice for Micah
>hello I am a new MT GM and I would very much appreciate any advice you all
>could give me on a good start up for a campaign. My players are mostly
>unfamiliar and, quite frankly so am I, with the system.
>Thank you
>Micah
Micah,
Welcome to a wonderful game!
Traveller is great for both new and veteran (read jaded) gamers.
Several quick points:
Have you and your players decided what type of campaign you will be playing?
Mercenary, Merchant, Scout, others?
Have you decided the style of the game?
(Cinematic free for all<------->Heavily realistic)
These decisions will determine how far your group will be travelling and how
much resource material you will need. If you are feeling creative, I'd
suggest a small starter game using one or maybe two star systems for your
campaign. Lean on a few resources, but make a lot of the details up from
your own ideas, as they will be easier to remember if you begin to feel
buried under a lot of resource information. If the players have to travel
(jump) between systems a few times, they should get a feel for the specific
flavor of this game.
As a long term gamemaster who gets new players now and then, one of the
better rules I've used is to keep the first few plots simple. The players
have alot to get used to in the genre, and a simple plot will be easy to
follow and keep straight while they get the feel for the Traveller universe.
Need any plot hooks or ideas?
Feel free to e-mail me at TravelerGM@hotmail.com
Roger Barr
TravelerGM@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:31:51 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: Advice to Micah thread
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 03:46:01 -0700
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger"
First off, don't freak out.
And don't forget, *HAVE FUN*.
Keven
Most excellent advice!
The most important points remain above. The rest was also good, but remember
after an evening of roleplaying, you should be satisfied only if you had
fun.
:)
Roger Barr
TravelerGM@hotmail.com
"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it."
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:37:24 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell"
Subject: RE: Conspiracy campaign idea (was: Traveller without psionics)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Andy Coombes
> Sent: Monday, 24 January 2000 5:01 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Conspiracy campaign idea (was: Traveller without psionics)
>
>
> Robert O'Connor wrote:
> >Weird Trav meme :- all these starships moving through jumpspace may one
> >day cause uncontrolled large scale deformation of the space-time
> >continuum, leading to something like Cynthia Higginbotham's alternate
> >collapse. Restrict access to jumpspace!
>
> Actually this seems like a brilliant basis for a large conspiracy-type
> campaign:
>
> A famous scientist approaches the PCs. He tells them that preliminary
> research results from Imperial Research Station Iota (which specialises
> in jump-space research) has shown that each Jump that is made causes
> an irreversable change to be made to the space-time continuum. Eventually,
> this will result in "damage" to the Universe (ranging from something
> minor, like non-stick pans becoming sticky to the complete heat-death
> of the Universe). He claims that these results are being suppressed,
> and that the results need to be publicised.
>
> There could be several reasons:
> 1. The scientist is a complete wacko.
> 2. The results are wrong, but the Imperium needs to suppress them in case
> they affect trade.
> 3. The results arise from a hiver manipulation - why are the
> cuddly starfish
> trying to stop us from using jumpspace?
> 4. The results are correct, but the Imperium is trying to suppress them.
> 5. The results are correct, other vested interests are trying to suppress
> them.
> 6. Some other reason.
This sounds a look like M A R Barkers description of a possible reason why
Tekumel, and a host of other star systems fell into there own pocket
dimensions. A side effect of what he called the three-light drive. Or was
that Grandfather using a jump drive to create his own pocket dimensions?
Antony
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1806
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Traveller-digest Monday, January 24 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1807
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Mines
RE: Clothing of the future
Traveller GM Hints
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Official Out-Of-Print Traveller Needs/Resources Thread
high tech clothing
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: Railguns
Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000 TML #1800
Re: Mines
Behind the Claw deviation from canon?
Official Dice Subthread 2000
Re: Official Taskwar Thread 2000
More help for new referees...
Re: Official Rules System War 2000
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1796
Re: Official Taskwar Thread 2000
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:41:02 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Mines
At 09:17 PM 1/23/00 -0800, you wrote:
>I think that I recall from Brilliant Lances that advanced TL missiles
>detonate 2 hexes away from their target, or about 60,000 km. So a spacing of
>one mine every 30,000 km will probably give you good coverage. Whether you
>can actually do this will probably depend on the tactical situation. You can
>probably get it if you are trying to stop a pursuit by the bad guys.
>
>If your mines are smart, so that they will only target certain classes of
>ships, or target only certain ship systems, they can wait until they are
>fairly close. This may be the area in which mines really pay off: causing
>selective damage. At normal engagement ranges, you are lucky to hit a
>ship-sized target, so your chance of causing any selective damage is
>probably small. If you are very close, on the other hand, you can probably
>do it.
Hello!
Since I do mine warfare as a hobby in the Reserve, I figured I'd
comment. Mine warfare is a complex and interesting task... firstly, there
is the psychological factor... in MCM circles there is an adage that goes
like this:
"Q: How many mines does it take to close a harbour to strategic
shipping?"
"A: NONE. It simply takes the *THREAT* of mines to do so...."
In space warfare, mines of the WW2 variant are useless... contact
weapons don't work for any number of reasons starting with *scale* problems.
Fine. Modern mines, however are a different kettle of fish.
There are two technologies in current inventories, that when married
to det-laser weapon systems suddenly make mine warfare useful. Firstly we
need to state two presumptions... 1) there is a reason that a target
vessel would willing approach the area you intend to mine, and 2) laying
mines is cheaper than *sweeping* mines.
I will leave it to the capable hands at Auritech, Gridlore and FS to
devise a "one-shot-ship-wrecker" det-laser package. However, it needs two
significant characteristics: 1) a targeting computer & 2) significant
stealthing such that it as a 1-ton object is indetectible until it is too
late. If we presume a weapon which can incinerate a target at 60Mm and
inconvience one at 120Mm, then we have a weapon which can be laid sparsely
enough not to break the bank, yet concievably cause sufficient consternation
at thier discovery to cause an enemy to waste time and/ or resources
attempting to defeat them or find a way around them.
The first real-world technology that needs to be discussed are
"smart" mines... these are systems which do not activate unless the ship
they are currently detecting is on the "hit list".... Alternately, they can
be programmed to "ignore" certain types of ships.
The second technology are "captivator" mines, which are a variant of
"smart" mines. These weapons are usually placed in the middle of a
minefield. All the other devices are essentially "switched off" until the
captivator detects a vessel that meets its "hit list" criteria and then
"switches on" the entire minefield. Note that the Captivator is itself also
a viable weapon.
In our det-laser scenario, we then need to examine the doctrine for
use of systems such as these. Since I am atrocious at math, I will not
bother to compute the number of mines needed to provide interlocking fields
of fire for mines spaced evenly every 15Mm around a size 8 world at a
distance of 50d. Suffice to say the answer is "LOTS". If these were to be
spaced in three "layers", with the middle layer being on the 50d mark and
the outter and inner layers 30Mm offset from the middle, we wind up with a
substantial number of LOS solutions for a prospective target attempting to
enter the field.
The inner-most ring would be "seeded" with Captivators, perhaps to
20% density to ensure full coverage... the remainder are normal "smart"
mines. In the situation of an aggressor attempting to push in towards the
planet, with his forces, he would suddenly find his entire task force
suddenly on the recieving end of dozens to hundreds of attacks per ship,
since the mines are predicated towards attacking the nearest threat to them.
Even a wide screen front simply means more ships attacked by more weapons,
albiet with less density per victim. Finally, under some rules-variants,
exploding det-lasers "white-out" areas to sensors; imagine the psycological
effect to a fleet commander to have a few minutes of *NO* communications
with his entire fleet due to white-outs. He would be unable to determine if
he even *had* a fleet left for several minutes, nor would the remnants be
able to determine if *they* had a flag-ship any more.
For the defender, he has the ability to conduct combat operations
unmolested by his own minefield, while the field has a tendency to channel
the attacker into areas which have already been "distructively swept"
(euphumisim for loosing an own-force vessel to an enemy mine), meaning that
the front of engagement is slowed and allowing the defender to concentrate
his operations on the enemy spearhead.
In the situation of a blockade, these weapons can be randomly dumped
out of innumerable merchant vessels and para-military craft on a prelude to
the blockade being raised... Since the pattern is random, the defender
cannot presume that a swept channel is in fact swept... it is merely less
likely to contain a mine. Here, captivators are less useful... instead the
smart mines would be "switched on" by a coded signal upon the arrival of the
blockading fleet... the attacker need not come into range of the defender's
planet-based weapons and can still cause nightmares for ships trying to run
the blockade... coming out too close to the minefield simply allows more
mines to fire on you, whereas coming out of jump further away simply gives
the attacker more time to fire upon you before you reach the mine-feild.
Certainly, the defender can dedicate considerable resources to
"sweeping by fire"; however, if the mines cost 1MCr each and 30 are
destroyed before they destroy one Type-A loaded with supplies becomes a
flaming datum, then the aggressor has won the game economically. Keep in
mind that not one attacker asset is damaged so far, which leaves him in
doubly better shape.
The field can be re-seeded periodically to close "distructively
swept" portions of the field, simply by pushing a few mines towards the
planet on a course that will wind up an orbital intercept. Leonard has
posted a few times that this is the sort of stuff you can figure on a
calculator and scrap paper.
In a millieu where building a BCr28 vessel to move a BCr1 marine
force across a subsector is reasonable, I consider the idea that MC1 or even
MCr5 mines to be "too expensive" to deploy on the scale I am discussing
laughable. If the defender spends BCr29 on MCr5 mines, he gets 5800 of
them. If he destroys thier equivalent value in attacking ships and looses
the *entire* minefield in doing so, he is still ahead, since all of his
*manned* defenses are still intact.
Again, with things like "radical stealthing" of a tiny and purely
passive device and possessing the area-of-effect that they can be given, I
think that mine warfare is a viable option for the 3i and its neighbours.
However, like contemporary mine warfare, it is strategic in nature and needs
to be included in a larger doctrine. To some client states, simply being
told that the 3I has just mined thier skies with TL F det-lasers -- wether
it had happened or not, since they'd never detect them -- might be more than
enough to convice them to lean towards Imperial whim.
Regards,
Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:13:12 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Clothing of the future
Frank G. Pitt writes:
>Imagine a form of all-over, 'skin-tight' clothing that not only
>acts a 24-bit LCD display connected to an integral CPU and RAM
>powered by static electricity to allow constantly changing
>coloured patterns or even video to be displayed across your skin
>surface, but also on command retract from any particular part of
>the body you require in manner similar to a liquid flow.
>This integral bioform clothing and protection system is able to,
>in an emergency, provide basic 'elastic' style vacc-suit
>capability, and generate a reflective surface acting as Reflec
>armour
>At the same, time it's self-sealing properties allow emergency
>blood-loss control, and the integral semsor unit will perform
>appropriate medical diagnostics, call for medical support if
>required, and inform the medic of the location and extent of
>injuries
>For cleaning anbd other purposes the entire suit will fall off
>the body on command (yeah, alright, I know what hacker nerds will
>do with that one) and can be placed in any standard ultrasonic
>washing machine.
>TL 13 ?
I'm thinking CT TL 16.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:13:12 -0500
From: "Chris Dixon"
Subject: Traveller GM Hints
Micha,
Although it's been a while since I've GM'd anything, the Mt universe is
a good setting for Merchant and Mercenary adventures. You can have
characters trying to get goods from point A to Point B and run into
competing factions, space battles, naval blockades, etc. All good for
RPG fun and intrigue. All those factions also have use for Mercenary
operations, both covert and all-out offensive opportunities abound.
My "golden rule" of GMing (stolen from a quirky little game called
Paranoia) is "Put on a good show and fate will smile upon you." In
other words, let your players have fun. I'm all for "rules bending" and
"dice-flexing" to keep things interesting (unless the players are doing
something really stupid i.e. "let's engage the jump drive on the landing
pad and see what happens") and to keep play flowing if everyone is
having a good time. I normally never mess with "player rolls" and I try
to always let them roll their own dice in critical situations. That way
if things go south, they don't feel like the GM sent their roll that
way. My rolls as the GM however are almost always "fungible." - I'll
play with them if it feels like the right thing to do at the time.
I once had a group of characters who were on trial for smuggling use
their one phone call to hire a Mercenary Company to "retrieve" them
during the trial and get them off-world. The ensuing "running gun
battle" in the courtroom, through the city, into the customs impound
lot, and the race from there to the Jump point was great fun for
everyone.
Sure the orbital forces of the world in question should have intercepted
them in orbit and pounded them to dust, but I hand- waved most of the
fleet to the asteroid belt conducting "maneuvers" during the breakout
and limited the chase to a few gun boats.
The players "barely" made it out system, gave over most of their hard
earned credits to the Mercs and lived to "travel" another day.
Realistic, not really; entertaining, hell yes!
When in doubt, always err on the side of fun.
- -Chris Dixon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:40:13 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Jens Rydholm spews into the ether:
>I also imagine people like the more rabid of the NRA and survivalists in
>the US shooting "aliens" and "alien sympathesizers" at sight. First
>contact would probably not be entirely peaceful, even if the "aliens"
>were friendly.
No, no, no...It will be the NEA calling for military intervention so they
don't have to rewrite any course material and the Teamsters wanting them
nuked to prevent the loss of Union jobs.
The NRA members will welcome aliens & invite them to cookouts and target
ranges. They will want to compare whatever firepower they Aliens have to
their AR-15s and MP-5s. They *want* to know what's a good varmit cartridge
out Alpha Centari way...
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
murbin@planetall.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Smith&Wesson -- The Ultimate "Point & Click" User interface.
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:44:27 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Official Out-Of-Print Traveller Needs/Resources Thread
Well now.
So we have at least one new Traveller GM who's looking
for some stuff. Well, I have OCR'd text from most of
the Classic Traveller adventures now on my website:
members.home.net/eaglestone/Resources/index.html
Since they're out of print (for now), I'll make them
available. The OCR wasn't superb, so there are lots
of little burps here and there, but if anyone wants
to clean them up please send me the pretty versions
and I'll post 'em.
I'm only leaving this stuff up a short time, since it
takes up space and I'll have to remove it eventually
when Marc officially begins to reprint them. If there's
a need and it's permissable to keep them up here,
maybe Downport would like them? (heh)
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:00:39 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: high tech clothing
Sound a lot like the mono-molecular suite LeFarge wears in S.M. Stirling's
book "Drakon."
That suit also had the ability to harden on sudden impact, making it bullet
resistant.
Note that I typed "bullet resistant", not "bullet proof." The Draka armed
her human servants with .50 Caliber Barret Light Fifties for a reason. :-)
This is a subtle distinction that many young gamers miss. Still a topic of
humor in my group. A fellow sat in one of our SR games and gave me a
clueless look when I tried to correct his statement "My Elven Physical
Adept has a bullet proof suit." Shortly after this, we had to explain the
concept of a 'fire sack' to him. :-)
Frankie puts out into the ether:
>Imagine a form of all-over, 'skin-tight' clothing that not only acts a
>24-bit LCD display connected to an integral CPU and RAM powered by static
>electricity to allow constantly changing coloured patterns or even video to
>be displayed across your skin surface, but also on command retract from any
>particular part of the body you require in manner similar to a liquid flow.
>This integral bioform clothing and protection system is able to, in an
>emergency, provide basic 'elastic' style vacc-suit capability, and generate
>a reflective surface acting as Reflec armour
>At the same, time it's self-sealing properties allow emergency blood-loss
>control, and the integral semsor unit will perform appropriate medical
>diagnostics, call for medical support if required, and inform the medic of
>the location and extent of injuries
>For cleaning anbd other purposes the entire suit will fall off the body on
>command (yeah, alright, I know what hacker nerds will do with that one) and
>can be placed in any standard ultrasonic washing machine.
>
>TL 13 ?
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a
free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed. -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:16:24 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
Ian Ferguson wrote:
>
> David J. Golden writes:
> >Er, I'd figure it exactly the other way around ... the herbivore
> >has to escape EVERY time or it's dead, while the carnivore only
> >has to catch occasionally.
>
>
> The herbivore has to escape every time that it is attacked,
> but it is not attacked nearly as often as the predator must
> eat.
>
Yes, but the herbivore _only_ has to run faster than the slower of it's
herd.
I don't have to outrun the bear, only outrun _you_ ;-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:43:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Railguns
Leonard Erickson writes:
> Ruggedness is *always* an issue.
I think I've seen information about coilguns which suggests that they need
part per million accuracy on the barrel and projectile, which certainly isn't
particularly viable for battlefield use.
>
> And I daresay that a tank *could* carry some sort of "dies" for turning
> scrap metal into rounds.
While you probably could, (a) you'd destroy your barrel, and (b) the scrap
metal rounds wouldn't be worth a damn in real combat. A railgun round would
probably be a dense penetrator embedded in a block of a much lighter conductor
(same idea as modern sabot rounds) since the ideal shape of an object to be
fired from a railgun and the ideal shape of a penetrator are not the same.
The difference between 'scrap metal' rounds and real anti-armor rounds would
be as much as an order of magnitude in penetration.
Entirely separately from this, if you're separated from support long enough to
run out of ammunition and create new ones from available metal, you're probably
also separated for long enough that your tank will cease to operate due to
lack of spare parts and repair.
The whole business about using random chunks of metal for ammunition is an
appalling battletech-ism.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:10:56 -0700
From: "Eric T. Holmes"
Subject: Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000 TML #1800
Are you sure you mean 30mm? I think its more like 30cm for a shipboard
missile. Consider the size of a BGM-109 Griffin Cruise Missile or the Navy's
Tomahawk.
Or look at these babies:
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/missiles/slam/slamerspec.htm
I see ship missiles as "big" and planetary defense missiles as "huge".
The PDF missiles are huge because of the needed boost power to
lift multiple warheads. Maybe that's just the ex-launch officer in me ;o)
>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:32:48 -0600
>From: Michael Maley
>Subject: Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
>
>In my campaign just to make it simple, spaceships, fighters, heavy
>ground missiles have the same size(30mm) & power. The smaller missiles
>are usually those used in multiple launchers or hand held launchers and
>vary in damage. Those usually run in the 20mm or below, depending on
>tech level.
>
>darkhstarr
>
Eric
eholmes@lanl.gov holmberg@thuntek.net
7am to 4pm Mountain Time 6pm to Midnight Mountain Time
IMTU: he+, tc+, tm, tne, t4, tg, tt, to, ru, ge, 3i+, c+, jt, au, st, ls+,
pi+, ta+,
as+, va+, dr+, _sa_, kk--, hi--, so++, zh, vi, da, sy, _hu_
(sa = other sapients, hu = other humani)
Lacedaemon, we have done our duty.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:22:28 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Mines
Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
> Hello!
> Since I do mine warfare as a hobby in the Reserve, I figured I'd
>comment.
Another excellent example of the TML people resources that this list can tap.
> The field can be re-seeded periodically to close "distructively
>swept" portions of the field, simply by pushing a few mines towards the
>planet on a course that will wind up an orbital intercept. Leonard has
>posted a few times that this is the sort of stuff you can figure on a
>calculator and scrap paper.
As long as the mines aren't all in the same orbit, the gaps will disappear
in less than an hour without trying.
> In a millieu where building a BCr28 vessel to move a BCr1 marine
>force across a subsector is reasonable, I consider the idea that MC1 or even
>MCr5 mines to be "too expensive" to deploy on the scale I am discussing
>laughable. If the defender spends BCr29 on MCr5 mines, he gets 5800 of
>them. If he destroys thier equivalent value in attacking ships and looses
>the *entire* minefield in doing so, he is still ahead, since all of his
>*manned* defenses are still intact.
The problem is that High Guard isn't really up to this level of detail.
With reasonable ship designs, you have 20BCr of mines doing 1MCr of damage
(a lucky weapon turret hit, say)
On the other hand, "distructively sweeping" :-) with a merchant out of
book 2 would probably just add another wreck to the orbital clutter.
> Regards,
> Michel
>
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
> ICQ # 31172292
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> NET-City Communications....
> Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
> ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Does this mean your ISP is pro-TNE or anti?
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:29:26 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: Behind the Claw deviation from canon?
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 15:53:51 -0500
From: John Macek
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
Rob,
You wrote:
> especially when some of the entries in BtC
>_contradict_ published Classic Traveller data.
Has anyone attempted to "correct" this?
I'd really appreciate a list of what doesn't match canon, if you have
one.
Thanks!
John
I would second this!!!!!
Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
- ------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:55:51 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Official Dice Subthread 2000
Here's what I would like to do.
I bought this neato stuff from my local hobby store
that's some kind of plastic-clay stuff... what is
it called anyway? Well, it feels like modelling
clay, and you shape it to whatever you want it to
be... then you bake it in a normal oven (ventilate
the fumes later, please) and it comes out as hard
plastic!
Great stuff, and there's some potential I'd like
to try to realize:
It is possible, though perhaps difficult, to make
an irregular, eleven-sided die, with different
face sizes so that the side probabilities are,
roughly,
3%
5.5%
8%
11%
13%
16%
13%
11%
8%
5.5%
3%
...in other words, a die that has the same
probabilities as 2d6!!! Tell me now, wouldn't
that be cool?
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:04:03 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Re: Official Taskwar Thread 2000
I may as well tell y'all how Val Dauterive, our
best Referee IMO, uses the T4 task system.
He follows the rules up to a point: he uses the
half-die and the difficulty system as written,
but with a twist.
He stretches the task roll into a mini-game all
its' own, in a manner a lot like Blackjack.
He splits the task up into elements of increasing
granularity or difficulty. Then we start rolling.
We roll one die. If we're under target, our
efforts may actually yield results. Then we roll
the next die, and if we're under target some more
info comes out. And so on... in fact, we can keep
rolling, and as long as we're under target, we
reap the benefits.
However, many tasks risk exposing us to the Evil
Powers That Be, and if we go over target then
we're pretty much either shut out, spotted, dead,
or otherwise inconvenienced. So we have to decide
whether to go for the next level or be satisfied
with what we've got.
An excellent adaptation, that brings the fun
of playing odds and dice games into Traveller.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:03:55 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp"
Subject: More help for new referees...
Greetings, All,
Here's a few more suggestions for new referees. If you are looking
for playing aids that will help you keep track of astrogation and
world data, I'd like to recommend the following freeware for IBM
users:
Jim Vassilakos' Galatic 2.4 mapping program...
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/8023/gal.htm
Stuart Ferris' World Builder Deluxe world data program...
http://www.downport.com/wbd/World_Builder_Deluxe.htm
(although a new version of WBD is on its way...:)
Galactic makes it very easy to keep track of a lot of gaming related
notes and information in an easy-to-exchange format. Not nearly as
much specific detail as WBD, but it's easier to get the overall
picture using Galactic.
World Builder Deluxe generates much more world data, and also has
routines that aid in trade and commerce, animal encounters, and a lot
of other interesting asides.
Personally, since WBD requires so much room to store all the
information it generates, I recommend using it for specific worlds of
interest, and use Galactic for the overall picture of your campaign.
Depends on the level of detail you want to generate for your
campaign.
Hope this helps.
All this for just 0.02Cr,
Jason
=============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375
Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes. For more info, check out:
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm
==============================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:16:58 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Re: Official Rules System War 2000
Eris quoth:
>>Sorry Eris, I may be heterodox, but not heretic :)
>Hee! So you say. However, for some of our number if you aren't a
>strict CT/HG acolyte then you *are* a heretic.
Oh! Well, I've got that hat, too. See? It says,
"There is only one Traveller, and High Guard is its
only ship design system". I wear it too. I never
managed to graduate from the MT or TNE Theological
Institutions, so I didn't get hats for them. BUT,
as you can see, both T4 and CT hats require the same
basic flattened-sphere skull, so I can interchange
them at will!
Oh yeah: I took a couple of remedial classes from
GURPS Technical Seminary, but I don't have enough
credits for certification.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:21:06 -0800
From: "Brian Jenkins"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1796
>hello I am a new MT GM and I would very much appreciate any advice you all
>could give me on a good start up for a campaign. My players are mostly
>unfamiliar and, quite frankly so am I, with the system.
Michael I have just recently started a MT campaign myself and many years ago I ran one in the Navy. You can email me direct if you like with any questions or ask them here for everyone's input but you need to be a little more specific for me. Exactly what kind of help do you need? Do you need adventure ideas or do you have rule questions? Let them rip and I am sure we can all help you!
Brian Jenkins
bjenkins@westek.com
"It pays to be obvious. Especially if you have a reputation for subtlety."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:32:26 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Re: Official Taskwar Thread 2000
Eris, doing penance for his heresy, wrote:
>How about this idea. Roll a d6 for each skill level as you recieve
>it, and add that to a grand total. Now each skill level increases
>by an average of 3.5 rather than 1.
>Does that increase the skill levels *too* much?
That's pretty cool. Let me modify that:
1. Restrict skill levels to Classic Traveller levels: 0-6.
2. Determine the # of dice to roll in a linear manner:
Easy 1D
Average 2D
Difficult 3D
Hard 4D
Harder 5D
Really really hard 6D
Too Many Dice 7D
Way too many dice 8D
A snowball's chance... 9D
Absurd # of Dice 10D
2. Subtract the skill level from the number of dice to roll.
3. Roll stat + skill or less to succeed.
Joe Pickaxe has Sledgehammer-4, and decides to pummel his
way through the outer wall of a TL-5 bank to get at the
hidden Art Treasures. The Referee, already anticipating
this, set the difficulty level at "Too Many Dice", or 7D.
The average Yoshi has a tiny itty bitty chance, but our
Joe here has a master's skill level, reducing the task
for him down to 3D -- merely Difficult. Assuming his
Strength is 10, then his asset is 14 -- pretty darn good
odds for Joe. He must know where the weak points in the
wall are likely to be.
Well, it looks like Eris' idea is better, but both suffer
from the same problem: too many dice! Now you see how
picky I am about dice rolling. Sigh! Maybe I should just
stick with some MT variant, like having the target numbers
increase by 3s or something. How did MT do it? 4, 7, 10,
13, 16?
Rob
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1807
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Traveller-digest Monday, January 24 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1808
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: 1D11
RE: Dimorphism
Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
Re: 1D11
>Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
Re: Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
Big computers
Re: Big computers
Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
Re: 1D11
re: Big computers
Re: 1D11
Re: Big computers
Re: Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
Re: Mines
Re: Big computers
Re: 1D11
Re: Re Small Sophonts
Re: Mines
Re: mines
Re: UNCLASSIFIED Clothing of the future - three words, plastic plastic plastic
Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:49:29 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: 1D11
Robert Eaglestone writes:
>It is possible, though perhaps difficult, to make
>an irregular, eleven-sided die, with different
>face sizes so that the side probabilities are,
>roughly,
>...in other words, a die that has the same
>probabilities as 2d6!!! Tell me now, wouldn't
>that be cool?
The easiest thing would be to form two cubes, and number
the faces on each from 1 to 6...
Probably the easiest way to make 1D11 with the suggested
probabilities would be to take a cylinder and flatten
11 sides (so that the ends of the cylinder would be 11-sided
shapes). The sizes of the faces would have to be fiddled to
get the desired probabilities.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:56:26 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Dimorphism
William F. Hostman writes:
>>Leonard Erickson writes:
>>>>In every Terrestrial species that might even possibly be
>>>>sentient, with the exception of dolphins, the male is larger
>>>>than the female. AFAIK, dolphins are the same size
>>>>regardless of sex.
>>>Tell that to the next bear you meet. :-)
>> AFAIK, male bears are generally larger than females, but I
>> could be wrong.
>>Peez
>And is wrong, at least for the Kodiak Grizzly and the Polar.
>Dimorphism ammongst Grizzly populations shows males tend to be no
>larger than females in general, but the largets females are larger
>than the largest males... Polar bears have clear male dimorphism
>according to the show "The Ultimate Guide to Bears" as well as
>the local Zoo... Home of Binkey the Brit Eater.
Apparently, opinions vary: although I don't have any good
references handy, every web source that I found in which
male and female size was mentioned stated that males are
larger (including black, grizzly, and polar bears). I
avoid relying on such references, but two of those for
black bears were sites run by the Pittsburgh Zoo and
Glacier-Waterton International Peace Park, respectively,
perhaps more reliable than some. I will try to resolve
this with some better references.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:07:21 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
As I recall, Marc Miller (peace be upon him) set the
First and Third Imperia up as a cognate to our Roman
Empire: First Imperium was the decline and fall of
the Romans, and the Third Imperium is kind of a heyday-
like Roman Empire.
Therefore, it seems useful and reasonable that both
religion and politics would be powerful ways to
manipulate people in the Imperia, religion in the
sense of a political entity rather than a simple
"feed the poor and take care of widows" kind of thing.
That being said, there almost HAS to be an Imperial
religion, ancient and with mystical, prehistoric roots.
Pre-historic in that there were no Scouts to record
it and publish their findings.
This human religion would just about HAVE to be like any
large institution: layers upon layers of heirarchy,
political power, and grabby priests. It would also HAVE
to have the elements of pure religion as we understand
them: compassionate people who work in food kitchens and
orphanages; ascetics looking to purify their motives in
monastic communities with good honest labor; and local
authorities who make the welfare and fair treatment of
their flock their goal. These last ones are the most
likely to get killed by the power-mongers due to their
meddling in regional politics for the good of the people
rather than the good of the powerful.
It can look Eastern mystic [Buddhist or Zoroastrian-based],
Eastern philosophic [Tao, which makes good generals],
Western mystic [Christianity] or Western philosophic
[Jungian or Stoic].
But they all, more or less, will have mystical elements,
and they all, more or less, will have philosophical
elements.
Ruth Benedict laid forth several opposites by which we can
explain a people (this is cultural anthropology) and compare
them with others. Examples include:
CEO vs Tribal Chief for a ruler
Mercy vs Bravery
Rats! I can't recall the rest! There were a bunch of
them... maybe 8 or 10 of 'em... humph! Ah well, this
was getting long anyway.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:02:44 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: 1D11
How about making a d36 with multiple faces for each result. One face
labelled "12," two faces labelled "11," etc.
>
> The easiest thing would be to form two cubes, and number
> the faces on each from 1 to 6...
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:06:46 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: >Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:16:46 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
>> especially when some of the entries in BtC
>>_contradict_ published Classic Traveller data.
>
Classic Traveller and GDW-published MegaTraveller. (GDW MegaTraveller
material that doesn't involve the rebellion is part of GT canon, AFAIK.)
For example, the Keith's wrote a lovely 2-part article on Craw
I found other examples, but that's the one that sticks in my mind; probably
because (a) the article made an impression on my and shaped how I describe
worlds, and (b) because I ran a game on Craw once.
Well, there is always a way out. For example, the data in the players
Library Data files is listed as coming from a massive compilation done by a
private corporation deep within the heart of the Imperium, far from the
Marches. They offer several errata sheets the players may not have received
when they failed to register the purchased(?) software...
Roger Barr
travelerGM@hotmail.com
If you must choose between two evils, pick the one you've never tried
before...
- ------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:54:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Robert Eaglestone wrote:
> As I recall, Marc Miller (peace be upon him) set the
> First and Third Imperia up as a cognate to our Roman
> Empire: First Imperium was the decline and fall of
> the Romans, and the Third Imperium is kind of a heyday-
> like Roman Empire.
>
SNIP
>
> That being said, there almost HAS to be an Imperial
> religion, ancient and with mystical, prehistoric roots.
>
Um, no. If we're going to duplicate the Roman Empire at its heyday, the
Emperors have to be revered as divine figures, but there would be NO
coherent, cohesive Imperial religion. There would be Official
Celebrations which would honor the Imperial family, their birthdays and
their divinity, and there would be Official Celebrations which would honor
various seasonal myths of the main tradition, which may very well be
Vilani. Christianity and Islam would not do as they tend to oppress other
religions when allowed to assume state power. The Roman official religion
was very tolerant of other religions, except for those which, like
Zoroastrianism and Christianity, became a focus for political rebellion.
Other religions were not only tolerated but were imported into Rome
itself, becoming as important as the Official religion for many Roman
citizens (for a few examples, see Isis and Mithras) and their festivals
were celebrated even if they were not state-supported.
Rome was a wildly vibrant melange of many different religious traditions.
It is seen as oppressive only because people learn in Sunday School that
Christianity was oppressed there without being told all the reasons for
this. Syncretism was widely practiced and mystery religions and cults
were everywhere. That could be a very entertaining TU to play in!
Kiri =)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:35:27 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Big computers
The comments about Traveller computers being way too big, leads me to ask
the following question, in the hopes that someone will know the answer: how
much space on a typical aircraft carrier or submarine is allocated to
computing equipment?
I always interpreted the Book 2 and HG figures for volume to include all
sorts of other stuff besides the particular system. For computers, the
tonnage would include lots of operator consoles, workspace for operators,
all of the space on the ship dedicated to networking equipment, the
associated HVAC, etc. In the case of computers, there are lots of things
which will take up space besides the actual CPU/server/whatever. I suppose
that I am interpreting the tonnage required as including the tonnage
required for the entire shipboard IS department.
Can anyone provide an accurate real-world estimate of how much of modern
ships is taken up by all of the computing equipment which these ships carry?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:12:16 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Big computers
>The comments about Traveller computers being way too big, leads me to ask
>the following question, in the hopes that someone will know the answer: how
>much space on a typical aircraft carrier or submarine is allocated to
>computing equipment?
I'm not going to answer your question, but my fix is to disregard any
reference to mass and volume for computers. The games were written before
the quantum leap in computer design. If you feel uncomfortable ignoring the
space, use it for work stations and thier accessways. You should be able to
run a scout/courier out of something the size of a suitcase.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:15:26 -0800
From: "David P. Summers"
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:55:08 EST
"Roger Barr"
>I have to disagree. I have the new Behind the Claw book and I really liked
>having the previously printed data in one source at my fingertips. I did
>notice that the actual listing of each world has just a tidbit of data, not
>really enough to interfere with my creativity in those systems. (I have been
>using Regina as a home subsector for my campaigns for years...)
>
>(Ummm, does this mean I'm gonna get cut from the credits of the new book by
>disagreeing with the publishers?)
I have to agree with Roger. When I started GMing in the Spinward marches
one of the most annoying thing was, when the PC started asking about
systems they were passing that didn't have to do with the plot. I had to
come up with consitent and believable explination that wouldn't ever
conflict with any other material I would use from GDW. BTC solved this
problem and you can ingnore the short paragraph of information if you want
to substitute your own info just as well as you can ignore a UWP.
This has come up before regrading the Solomani Rim book. I adovacated a
BTC approach but I don't appear to have been convincing enogh and it would
seem the book will have only UWP level information for most systems.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:29:22 -0600
From: Eris reddoch
Subject: Re: 1D11
Luther Martin wrote:
>
> How about making a d36 with multiple faces for each result. One face
> labelled "12," two faces labelled "11," etc.
If you want to do that, just draw cards.
Eris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:35:47 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Big computers
Jim Lawrie wrote:
>I'm not going to answer your question, but my fix is to disregard any
>reference to mass and volume for computers. The games were written
>before the quantum leap in computer design. If you feel uncomfortable
>ignoring the space, use it for work stations and thier accessways. You
>should be able to run a scout/courier out of something the size of a
>suitcase.
Depends what the Scout/Courier needs to do, especially when it goes
into jump space. Jumpspace calculations aren't, IMO, something you
can do on an abacus. They may not even be something you can do on
a PC...
I like to keep the mass/volume, and use the popular "gravitics and
other essential space technologies play merry hell with tiny, fragile
computers" handwave to deal with any problems.
While I think you are correct in your reasoning, I would like to point
out that tiny computers were present in *science fiction* at the time
Traveller was first being written. Why were jump drive, fusion power
and other speculative technologies included in the game, while tiny
computes were not? Sure, it's probably because the authors didn't think
of it, but we can still have fun with it.
Making tiny computers somewhat fragile also helps to get rid of the
"why not just crew my starship with a bunch of robots" problem
somewhat.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:40:00 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: 1D11
So you are recommending the creation of playing cards from the modelling
clay???
Your solution will also require multiple decks to get the big numbers of 6,
7, and 8 which you will need. Unless you use different cards from a single
deck, thus requiring a table lookup to verify which cards have which value,
etc.
> >
> > How about making a d36 with multiple faces for each result. One face
> > labelled "12," two faces labelled "11," etc.
>
> If you want to do that, just draw cards.
>
> Eris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:50:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Big computers
Jim & Peta Lawrie writes:
> I'm not going to answer your question, but my fix is to disregard any
> reference to mass and volume for computers. The games were written before
> the quantum leap in computer design. If you feel uncomfortable ignoring the
> space, use it for work stations and thier accessways. You should be able to
> run a scout/courier out of something the size of a suitcase.
Probably more a case of not paying attention to how computers progress, Moore's
Law has been in effect since 1950, which has never prevented people from
depicting super-advanced computers as being basically the same as computers
at the time the work was written.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:52:02 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> It is seen as oppressive only because people learn in Sunday
> School that Christianity was oppressed there without being told all
> the reasons for this.
I didn't learn it in Sunday school, I learned it by reading Tacitus. He was
quite clear on the reason why Christians were tortured and murdered:
Accusations made by Nero against the Christians, concerning the burning of
Rome. Tacitus stated that the Christians had not been responsible for the
fires, but deserved the fates they received due to their general
wretchedness.
Tacitus cited many lurid legends concerning the misanthropic nature of the
Christians. Many of these are similar, if not identical to the legends which
the Romans circulated concerning the evil practices of the Jews.
Indeed, later Roman writers shared the same biases, and they seemed to
repeat the same legends. There were accusations of cannibalism, which likely
stemmed from a misunderstanding of the Christian sacrament of Communion.
There were accusations, also, of child murder, human sacrifice, and various
other heinous crimes. None of these legends seem to have anything to do with
a lack of tolerance on the part of the Christians, and indeed, many of these
had already been circulating about the Jews under Roman rule for many, many
years.
Pliny the Younger reported that the governor of Bithynia, in a letter to
um... Trajan, if I'm remembering correctly, could not find any evidence of
the crimes which they were generally accused of, except that of being
Christian, and he was at a loss as to what to do with them. No matter what
he did, they were unshaken in their faith and continued to worship Christ.
To put it another way, the historical record doesn't seem to agree with your
characterization of Rome's treatment of Christianity.
ObTrav: In the Traveller Universe, there are a number of cultures which have
actually fought against the Imperium to avoid losing their autonomy. The
Darmine, a personal favorite of mine, are a perfect example. It is entirely
possible that there were nasty propaganda campaigns during this period...
but unfortunately for these cultures, the lingering shadow of this
propaganda refuses to die completely.
Tell the PCs about the evil and nasty Darmine, and then have them meet the
Darmine. To really make things interesting, have some of the nasty legends
be true. Maybe there *is* something really very nasty or extremely
unwholesome about the Darmine, or another region which fought to keep its
cultural integrity.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:55:08 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Mines
At 06:22 PM 1/24/00 +0000, you wrote:
>Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>
>> Hello!
>> Since I do mine warfare as a hobby in the Reserve, I figured I'd
>>comment.
>
>Another excellent example of the TML people resources that this list can tap.
>
Amazing what expertise this place has, neh?
>> The field can be re-seeded periodically to close "distructively
>>swept" portions of the field, simply by pushing a few mines towards the
>>planet on a course that will wind up an orbital intercept. Leonard has
>>posted a few times that this is the sort of stuff you can figure on a
>>calculator and scrap paper.
>
>As long as the mines aren't all in the same orbit, the gaps will disappear
>in less than an hour without trying.
>
Really? I don't know a lot about orbital mechanics, so I'll defer
to you. However, re-seeding would still be required just to keep the
density of the field up.
>> In a millieu where building a BCr28 vessel to move a BCr1 marine
>>force across a subsector is reasonable, I consider the idea that MC1 or even
>>MCr5 mines to be "too expensive" to deploy on the scale I am discussing
>>laughable. If the defender spends BCr29 on MCr5 mines, he gets 5800 of
>>them. If he destroys thier equivalent value in attacking ships and looses
>>the *entire* minefield in doing so, he is still ahead, since all of his
>>*manned* defenses are still intact.
>
>The problem is that High Guard isn't really up to this level of detail.
>
>With reasonable ship designs, you have 20BCr of mines doing 1MCr of damage
>(a lucky weapon turret hit, say)
So treat a det-laser as a USP C spinal PAWS under HG for hit
probabilities and damage... 12 hits per attack, even without criticals,
will break *something*... and that energy level or higher isn't
un-reasonable given the way the weapon is pumped...
>On the other hand, "distructively sweeping" :-) with a merchant out of
>book 2 would probably just add another wreck to the orbital clutter.
>
I'm not sure there would be that much left.... ;-)
>> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
>> ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
>> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
>
>Does this mean your ISP is pro-TNE or anti?
>Phil Kitching
2.0.
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:06:03 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Big computers
>Making tiny computers somewhat fragile also helps to get rid of the
>"why not just crew my starship with a bunch of robots" problem
>somewhat.
>Walt Smith
Ummm . . . (Hangs head guiltily) I have only just got a copy of
S8~Robots and I was thinking of allowing it. I was going to have a rule that
for every Engineer you could have 3 robots doing another Engineers job, as a
tester. It sounds like this has been tried without success?
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:05:17 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: 1D11
Hmmm, I thought he meant just using the ace (1) through the jack (11), mix
them up, lay them face down and then pull one card.
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Luther Martin"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: 1D11
> So you are recommending the creation of playing cards from the modelling
> clay???
>
> Your solution will also require multiple decks to get the big numbers of
6,
> 7, and 8 which you will need. Unless you use different cards from a single
> deck, thus requiring a table lookup to verify which cards have which
value,
> etc.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:10:21 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Re Small Sophonts
William F. Hostman writes:
>>
>> There have been many articles in various places that point out
>> that, if selecting for ability to increase brain size, marsupials
>> have it all over internal-gestation or egg-laying:
>>
Then Ian Ferguson replies:
>
> This is a very good point, and is one more potential cost to
> increased brain size. On the other hand, a marsupial "baby"
> will have to spend more time living on the outside of its
> mother to grow a large brain. This may entail higher risk
> to the baby. Incidentally, the three major groups of mammals
> are called monotremes (duck-billed platypus and echidna),
> marsupials (kangaroos, etc.), and placentals (you and me, plus
> a few others).
Don't forget "dead uncle Allotheria!" May I refer you to one particular song
on They Might Be Giants' album "Apollo 18", titled "Mammal."
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:46:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mines
In mail you write:
> I will leave it to the capable hands at Auritech, Gridlore and FS to
> devise a "one-shot-ship-wrecker" det-laser package. However, it needs two
> significant characteristics: 1) a targeting computer & 2) significant
> stealthing such that it as a 1-ton object is indetectible until it is too
> late.
I don't think the rules *allow* a "ship killer" that small. At least
not with det-laser technology.
But you may be able to do it with "nuclear shotgun" technology.
This is something they came up with on another list a few years back.
Basicly, you take a "small" nuke, and configure it (as we can now) to
generate most of its X-ray output in one direction. You place a
material that absorbs x-rays well, and vaporizes well (ie has maximal
efficiency at converting x-ray energy into kinetic energy) around the
bomb. Apparently styrofoam will work well! You place lots of *small*
projectiles on top of this.
If you've done everything right, you've got a device that when
detonated will send out a cone of these projectiles, moving at a
fraction of lightspeed. Even one of these "BBs" is going to hurt. Say
on the order of stopping a round or two from the New Jersey.
Stealthing at these ranges is going to be a *real* problem.
On the other hand, due to the fact that all the mines will be in orbit,
MOVING AT DIFFERENT SPEEDS, things get really interesting when you go
to sweep a corridor. It will only be "swept" for *minutes* before new
mines move in. If the orbits are offset in various ways, you won't even
get a hint of the "moving hole" that is what most people expect to be
the result.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:01:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: mines
In mail you write:
> By contrast, the -2 size mods counts for nothing with effective
> computer 0, agility 0. Killing these is an excercise in zero risk
> dice rolling boredom.
Depends on the planetoid. Doing much of *anything* to a hunk of rock
(or better yet, nickel-iron) a couple of km in diameter is going to be
*hard*.
Sure, you can eventually reduce it to gravel or to a white hot glob of
molten rock/metal. But the *energy* it'll take to do that is so far out
of line with the *benefit*...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:05:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: UNCLASSIFIED Clothing of the future - three words, plastic plastic plastic
In mail you write:
> Imagine a form of all-over, 'skin-tight' clothing that not only acts a
> 24-bit LCD display connected to an integral CPU and RAM powered by static
> electricity to allow constantly changing coloured patterns or even video to
> be displayed across your skin surface, but also on command retract from any
> particular part of the body you require in manner similar to a liquid flow.
>
> This integral bioform clothing and protection system is able to, in an
> emergency, provide basic 'elastic' style vacc-suit capability, and generate
> a reflective surface acting as Reflec armour
>
> At the same, time it's self-sealing properties allow emergency blood-loss
> control, and the integral semsor unit will perform appropriate medical
> diagnostics, call for medical support if required, and inform the medic of
> the location and extent of injuries
>
> For cleaning anbd other purposes the entire suit will fall off the body on
> command (yeah, alright, I know what hacker nerds will do with that one) and
> can be placed in any standard ultrasonic washing machine.
No need. If it can move in the manner(s) indicated, it can clean
*itself*. Either the individual (bacteria to molecule sized) units have
the aboility to move away from the generall larger dirt particles, or
they have some sort of "cillia" to scrape crud off of each other.
Dump a bucket of mud on someone wearing this, and the mud will cling
for an instant, then "peel" off in sort of a "wave" from head to toes.
And the units can clean the wearer too. The "cilia" can remove dead
skin cells, sweat residue, etc. Probably *better* than washing does.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:34:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
In mail you write:
> On Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:46:46 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
> Erickson) wrote:
>
>>>> to include THE THIRD WORLD; the three moons of Mars (Phobos, Demos and
>>>> Bottommos)....
>>>
>>> Since when does Mars have three moons?
>>
>>Bottomos is from an old SF story. Complete silliness and much fun.
>>Basicly, it was incredibly massive, about a yard across, and orbiting
>>about a meter above ground level...
>
> Yeah, that's pretty damn silly. I've heard about that story before... so
> that was Asimov that came up with it, huh?
I don't think it was Asimov. Much as he liked bad jokes, I don't think
he could bring himself to ignore science to the required extent.
> Assuming for the moment that there are no mascons ("mass concentrations",
> as charted by various Moon-orbiting spacecraft back in the 1960s) to
> distort Bottommos's path, it's going to be subject to considerable
> atmospheric drag at sea level, even in Mars's thin air. That drag should
> have caused it to deorbit long ago: first brushing the surface, then
> skidding along it (digging a nice groove), and then...
All details that the story ignored.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1808
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1808
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Traveller-digest Monday, January 24 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1809
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
Re: Versions (was: Heresy)
re: Rob's Traveller Software
Re: Rob's Traveller Software
Re: mines
Re: Rob's Traveller Software
Re: Big computers
Re: Big computers
Re: Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
Re: Big computers
Madoc subsector: an introduction to an Imperial backwater
nuclear shotgun (was Re: Mines)
Re: Big computers
Re: Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
Re: Big computers
Re: Big computers
Re: Big computers
Re: Mines
Re: Mines
Re: Clothing of the future
Re: Mines
Re: Clothing of the future
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:26:58 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
At 12:41 -0500 23/1/00, Rob Prior wrote:
>For example, the Keith's wrote a lovely 2-part article on Craw in an early
>JTAS (5 & 6, I think).
>I found other examples, but that's the one that sticks in my mind; probably
>because (a) the article made an impression on my and shaped how I describe
>worlds, and (b) because I ran a game on Craw once.
I suspect that you're saying that the BtC change stuck in your Craw?
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:30:28 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Versions (was: Heresy)
At 12:41 -0500 23/1/00, Black ICE wrote:
>Does Appleworks accept Excel 5.0 spreadsheets? If so, then there are
>_lenty_ of examples of (zipped) Excel 5.0 designs, using "*the*
>spreadsheet" on my site (see sig). If not, I can try saving it in
>another format, and see if it still works.
Not with Macros or Multiple sheets, and not all the commands map
across with MacLink. Which I need to reinstall now I've rebuilt the
HDD because Apple don't give it away with OSes >8.1...
Appleworks 6 may be a different kettle of Fish.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:35:32 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: Rob's Traveller Software
At 19:07 -0500 23/1/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>Frankly, I was thinking about a older, used powerbook. Maybe
>something like a 160 or 170.
Get a 190cs if you can (like a 486DX 66 in performance), but the
PB165 and PB170 have 68030's and System 7 so they should be okay.
> >Or is the MacOS the dark side,
>
>With Jobs running things how else could it be.
Hmm, my Mac usage and habits of playing Vader during school
playground re-enactments of Star Wars suddenly mesh into one.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:37:09 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Rob's Traveller Software
At 19:07 -0500 23/1/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>I doubt you need to worry, the dang things don't even have a command
>line! How can you respect an OS without a command line?
That'd be where you're wrong. Press the wrong key sequence at boot
and you get a command line...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:57:10 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: mines
At 4:26 -0500 24/1/00, "Bruce Macintosh"
wrote:
>Detonation lasers make excellent mines -
>
>The range is long enough that they can effectively control space
>around a gas giant or be part of the defences of a mainworld. In both cases,
>they could be hidden - among a ring or orbital debris respectively.
cf Borodin's maneuver to destroy the Kafer fleet in 2300's 'Invasion'.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:57:20 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Rob's Traveller Software
At 23:29 -0500 23/1/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> >All *I* care about (and all Eris likely cares about) is running the
> >Traveller programs. The spreadsheets convert (if you've got recent enough
> >PC spreadsheets)
>
>Exactly, and based on what Rob wrote a Mac Plus or better will do.
Just trying to save you further expense once we seduce you to the
dark side.... ;-)
I couldn't check when I was writing cos I'd just rebuilt my
%()(*&_*(_ing system and the BITS site and Navigator weren't on it
yet.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:13:35 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Big computers
At 10:06 AM 1/25/00 +1100, you wrote:
>>Making tiny computers somewhat fragile also helps to get rid of the
>>"why not just crew my starship with a bunch of robots" problem
>>somewhat.
>>Walt Smith
>
> Ummm . . . (Hangs head guiltily) I have only just got a copy of
>S8~Robots and I was thinking of allowing it. I was going to have a rule that
>for every Engineer you could have 3 robots doing another Engineers job, as a
>tester. It sounds like this has been tried without success?
> Jim
>
No, the problem is that you can, at TL 15, build a fully autonomous
warship with Pilot 8, Ship Tactics 8 and Gunnery 8 that needs no staterooms
and will kick the frack out of anything in its path. The problem is it is
*TOO* sucessful.... It blows canon to pieces, excuse the pun...
I've got a design for a 650 ton frieghter that is amazing....
fully automated.
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:25:22 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: Big computers
Please don't flame me for the following. It is what I do and I'm NOT
suggesting it for everyone's use. It does help me!!!!
Not to hand wave it off, I use the space for the redundancy/backup
computers. I cost it out per system but just use the space allocated for ONE
computer. This of course is IMTU but it helps me with allocated space in
designing my star ships.
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Smith, Walter"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 5:35 PM
Subject: re: Big computers
Jim Lawrie wrote:
I'm not going to answer your question, but my fix is to disregard any
reference to mass and volume for computers. The games were written
before the quantum leap in computer design. If you feel uncomfortable
ignoring the space, use it for work stations and thier accessways. You
should be able to run a scout/courier out of something the size of a
suitcase.
Walt Smith wrote:
Depends what the Scout/Courier needs to do, especially when it goes
into jump space. Jumpspace calculations aren't, IMO, something you
can do on an abacus. They may not even be something you can do on
a PC...
While I think you are correct in your reasoning, I would like to point
out that tiny computers were present in *science fiction* at the time
Traveller was first being written. Why were jump drive, fusion power
and other speculative technologies included in the game, while tiny
computes were not? Sure, it's probably because the authors didn't think
of it, but we can still have fun with it.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:31:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:
> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
>
>
> > It is seen as oppressive only because people learn in Sunday
> > School that Christianity was oppressed there without being told all
> > the reasons for this.
>
> I didn't learn it in Sunday school, I learned it by reading Tacitus. He was
> quite clear on the reason why Christians were tortured and murdered:
I never said that Rome did not oppress Christians; I said that in general,
Rome was tolerant of most other religions and that because Christianity
happened to be one of the very few religions Rome did not tolerate, we
have an inaccurate picture of the religious atmosphere of the Roman
Empire.
Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:34:41 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Big computers
> I was going to have a rule that
>>for every Engineer you could have 3 robots doing another Engineers job, as
a
>>tester. It sounds like this has been tried without success?
>> Jim
>>
> No, the problem is that you can, at TL 15, build a fully autonomous
>warship with Pilot 8, Ship Tactics 8 and Gunnery 8 that needs no staterooms
>and will kick the frack out of anything in its path. The problem is it is
>*TOO* sucessful.... It blows canon to pieces, excuse the pun...
>
> I've got a design for a 650 ton frieghter that is amazing....
>fully automated.
> --Michel
Can we install some Hand Waves here? I like the idea of scads of robots
being part of the landscape, maybe at TL15 robots can only replace 2/3's of
a crew stations, TL14 is 1/2, TL 13 is 1/3 and TL 12 is 1/4?
Some crew areas may not be replaced, civilian robots may not take up
combat areas. (Note: I use MT so I'm using the MT definitions of crewing)
which would include Bridge, Gunnery and Command.
It seems a pity to have these cool things and not use them.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:22:10 -0500
From: "Alvin"
Subject: Madoc subsector: an introduction to an Imperial backwater
**************
The following set of post's revolve around Madoc subsector
in Diaspora. This includes an overview, a *long* history
(hopefully written in an entertaining style) and
**************
Madoc Subsector Overview
Madoc subsector (Subsector O, Diaspora) is fairly close to the Solomani
border, and is within the "Solomani Sphere". Current under the rule
of the Third Imperium, the region is noted for it's "high-tech poverty":
many worlds are in the upper range of the tech scale, but because
of internal wars lacks both the wealth and population it would normally
have. Also, it's notable for the strongly theocratic religion - "Ismya
Christianity" - of the Ogadzi, the "race" of mixed Vilani/Solomani humans
that dominate most worlds in the subsector.
The Imperial Government has ruled most of this subsector twice: between
435 and 704, and again from 999 to the current date (1120). This backwater
region has caused more difficulty to Imperial rule than it's tax revenues
pay for: while the Imperium has no intention to withdraw from Madoc
subsector, it is trying to reduce the cost of holding it by granting
various concessions to the local Ogadzi culture, hoping to reduce hostility
towards the Imperium. Despite the weak intergration of the subsector with
Sector-wide and Imperium-wide trade routes, there is a good deal of
passenger shipping - both within the subsector and to the
"Ogadzi diaspora" throughout Diaspora Sector (400 million, excluding
Madoc) and Alpha Crucis (100 million) [1]
There is only one naval base and one scout base in the subsector, both
located
in low-pop systems. As a concession to local anti-Imperial sentiment,
there are only two nobles of a rank higher than Baron: The Count of the
Kelvin, and the subsector Duke. The only *planetary governments*
ruled by Imperial Nobility is Veimandu, Arrikesh, and a handful of
minor nations on balkanized worlds: the few native noble houses has
specifically
refused to join the Imperial Peerage, with the sole exception of Arrikesh.
There are six dominant influences that shape the subsector: the Ogadzi
culture, Ismya Christianity, Humanist ideology, Void Mysticism, and
Materialistic Rationalism. Ogadzi culture is based, naturally enough, on
the
Ogadzi race, a highly blended amalgam of 1/2 Anglo-African Solomani,
1/4 Korean Solomani, and 1/4 Vilani. Local Christianity is highly orthodox,
essentually hard-core Calvinism with a strong theonomic, Mosiac-code
orientation. Humanist ideology (closely related to Solomani ideology)
insist's on the supremacy of all humaniti over all other races, and
considers
differences aming humaniti to be of little importance: this is a dominant
force
among the Ogadzi. Classic Solomani beliefs in the importance of
Terra-decended humans is also a potent force locally, despite Imperial
distain for it. Void Mysticism, spreading from nearby Khulan subsector,
focuses on the contemplation and the power of Nothingness, with the
aim of transending the world of matter and obtaining unity with the Void.
Materialistic Rationalism - mainly limited to Kelvin in Madoc subsector -
insist's on the importance of the Mind and Reason over all other forces,
and denies the existance of anything that cannot be detected by the senses.
It differ's from "mainline rationalism" in it's hunger for immortality of
the
individual Mind, over and above all other considerations.
Despite the limited intergration of the subsector into the Imperial economy,
the region in general has a higher general tech level than is typical of the
Imperium, with a quarter of the systems at TL F, and another quarter above
TL C. This may be due to several factors, including the subsector's
location
in a rather wealthy region of Charted Space (Massilia-Diaspora-Solomani
Rim), vigourous exchange of population (and therefore ideas) across
a substantual region of space, as well as a lack of Vilani
anti-technological predjudice in the area. Even so, there is only one
truly wealthy world in the subsector, and a single high-pop, TL F
world elsewhere has more raw wealth than all of Madoc subsector
combined.
The high birthrate of the aggressively religious Ismya Christians within the
subsector, coupled with the guesome history of warfare in this
backwater region, has led to heavy emmigration throughout Diaspora
Sector, as well as Alpha Crucis Sector in Solomani space. Because of
the general view that warfare should be fought according to Mosaic lines,
fighting tends to be genocidal: the Imperium is only now withdrawing it's
forces from Nephilim, the site of an very bloody racial war among
Solomani Christians over "who is the most Solomani of all".
[1] The Ogadzi Diaspora is almost totally focused on high-pop worlds,
places which have the strongest economies. Thus, the Ogadzi
don't actually own any planets outside of Madoc subsector,
but make up a tiny minority (.01% to 1%) of most high-pop
systems in Diaspora and Alpha Crucis.
Alvin Plummer
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:34:32 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: nuclear shotgun (was Re: Mines)
Does this make sense? You are converting the x-rays into kinetic energy. Why
bother? You are probably losing orders of magnitude of energy in the
conversion. Isn't it better to focus the resulting x-ray laser blast on the
target? Can someone give me some back-of-the-envelope calculations which
justify this as a useful weapon? Can you even do this, or will the fireball
vaporize all of your pellets?
>
> But you may be able to do it with "nuclear shotgun" technology.
>
> This is something they came up with on another list a few years back.
> Basicly, you take a "small" nuke, and configure it (as we can now) to
> generate most of its X-ray output in one direction. You place a
> material that absorbs x-rays well, and vaporizes well (ie has maximal
> efficiency at converting x-ray energy into kinetic energy) around the
> bomb. Apparently styrofoam will work well! You place lots of *small*
> projectiles on top of this.
>
> If you've done everything right, you've got a device that when
> detonated will send out a cone of these projectiles, moving at a
> fraction of lightspeed. Even one of these "BBs" is going to hurt. Say
> on the order of stopping a round or two from the New Jersey.
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:41:15 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Big computers
Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>
> No, the problem is that you can, at TL 15, build a fully autonomous
> warship with Pilot 8, Ship Tactics 8 and Gunnery 8 that needs no staterooms
> and will kick the frack out of anything in its path. The problem is it is
> *TOO* sucessful.... It blows canon to pieces, excuse the pun...
No life support, no inertial comp, nothing but local accessways, nothing
but a big honking OFF switch you need to put on the outside just in case
that ai running the thing decides it doesn't really like you flesh bags
telling it to go blow stuff up...
To say NOTHING of the nightmare that results when V*rus gets ahold of
one of those babies...
Oh, that's right, we can't say anything...there's a reason nothing that
goes into the Black Curtain comes out again...;-> heh heh heh
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:26:41 -0800
From: "J. Paul Sanders"
Subject: Re: Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
At 05:52 PM 1/24/00 -0500, Chris Seamans wrote:
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
>> It is seen as oppressive only because people learn in Sunday
>> School that Christianity was oppressed there without being told all
>> the reasons for this.
>
>To put it another way, the historical record doesn't seem to agree with your
>characterization of Rome's treatment of Christianity.
Well said.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:31:52 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
>I found other examples, but that's the one that sticks in my mind;
probably
>because (a) the article made an impression on my and shaped how I
describe
>worlds, and (b) because I ran a game on Craw once.
So BtC stuck in your ...
- -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft
product.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:34:42 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Big computers
A very reasonable idea, it seems to me.
So how do you incorporate this concept into deckplans?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Thom Harris
To:
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Big computers
> Please don't flame me for the following. It is what I do and I'm NOT
> suggesting it for everyone's use. It does help me!!!!
> Not to hand wave it off, I use the space for the redundancy/backup
> computers. I cost it out per system but just use the space allocated for
ONE
> computer. This of course is IMTU but it helps me with allocated space in
> designing my star ships.
>
> Thom
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:01:39 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Big computers
Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
> Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
> >
> > No, the problem is that you can, at TL 15, build a fully autonomous
> > warship with Pilot 8, Ship Tactics 8 and Gunnery 8 that needs no staterooms
> > and will kick the frack out of anything in its path. The problem is it is
> > *TOO* sucessful.... It blows canon to pieces, excuse the pun...
>
> No life support, no inertial comp, nothing but local accessways, nothing
> but a big honking OFF switch you need to put on the outside just in case
> that ai running the thing decides it doesn't really like you flesh bags
> telling it to go blow stuff up...
George R.R. Martin refers to this problem with AI ships in _Tuf
Voyaging_, in explaining why ARK was _not_ AI-equipped. (Not to mention
the hassles that "the ultimate computer" caused in the ST:TOS episode by
that name.)
Were I to have AI-controlled ships IMTU, I would limit them to
escort-sized vessels. There's a limit to the unpleasantness that a 1000
dton ship can inflict if it gets uppity. That limit is much lower than
that imposed on an AI-controlled TIGRESS-class battleship....
<>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:06:35 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Big computers
At 10:34 AM 1/25/00 +1100, you wrote:
[snip]
>>*TOO* sucessful.... It blows canon to pieces, excuse the pun...
>>
>> I've got a design for a 650 ton frieghter that is amazing....
>>fully automated.
>> --Michel
>
> Can we install some Hand Waves here? I like the idea of scads of robots
>being part of the landscape, maybe at TL15 robots can only replace 2/3's of
>a crew stations, TL14 is 1/2, TL 13 is 1/3 and TL 12 is 1/4?
> Some crew areas may not be replaced, civilian robots may not take up
>combat areas. (Note: I use MT so I'm using the MT definitions of crewing)
>which would include Bridge, Gunnery and Command.
> It seems a pity to have these cool things and not use them.
> Jim
>
Hey, do what you want IYTU... unfortunately, for the canon-ists in
the audience, _Book 8: Robots_ is a slippery slope best not visited.
Personally, I have a "robot" in my TNEC universe called the "Sabre"
system... 8 tons, 2 VRF gauss guns, 2 TAC-missle launchers, RADARs and a
bitchin' FCS unit (Fwd Obsrvr 4, Hvy Wpns-4)... human operator can manage 6
of these things remotely and give them engagement parameters... Turn an
Opfor company into wasteland in a hurry with no exposure of the operator.
The Colonial Marines are working on a vectored thrust "Warbot" under
trooper control... the idea is to make one grunt a fire-team...
But the 3I? Keep 'em awaaaaay....
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:08:29 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mines
In a message dated 1/24/00 3:18:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Re: mines
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > By contrast, the -2 size mods counts for nothing with effective
> > computer 0, agility 0. Killing these is an excercise in zero risk
> > dice rolling boredom.
>
> Depends on the planetoid. Doing much of *anything* to a hunk of rock
> (or better yet, nickel-iron) a couple of km in diameter is going to be
> *hard*.
>
> Sure, you can eventually reduce it to gravel or to a white hot glob of
> molten rock/metal. But the *energy* it'll take to do that is so far out
> of line with the *benefit*...
In the meantime those planetary Meson gun sites are making big holes in your
fleet.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:07:34 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Mines
Dear Folks -
Walter replied to Luther:
>>If your mines are smart, so that they will only target certain classes
>>of ships, or target only certain ship systems, they can wait until they
>>are fairly close.
>
>Define "close". Even at 10,000km, that intruding starship is pretty much
>a point target. A 15cm missile doesn't have the sensor aperture to do
>much analysis & selection (or even initial detection!) with a target
>like that.
An old _Challenge_ had another idea in "Three Blind Mice". Part of the ship
detaches and flies about as a remote drone, controlled by the mother ship. The
drone flies behind the mother ship at about 30,000 km, and controls 3-6 SIM's
(space missiles). The sensors are in the _drone_, with just the basic targetting
stuff in the missiles.
Why not scatter a number of "controller stations" around, and put them in charge
of your minefield? The drones pick up ships with their better passive sensors
(stretch out an array or two), and then vector the missiles onto target.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:16:26 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Clothing of the future
Dear Folks -
Frank said:
>Imagine a form of all-over, 'skin-tight' clothing that not only acts a
>24-bit LCD display connected to an integral CPU and RAM powered by static
[snip great description of a high-tech magic item]
>TL 13 ?
Ah, since I place Predator dynamic chameleon armour at TL 17, I'd say this is TL
18+.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:28:42 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mines
In a message dated 1/24/00 5:56:14 AM !!!First Boot!!!, SmithW@hartwick.edu
writes:
<< Of course, they could be missile
*control* platforms, with the missiles/mines already lying doggo
throughout the platform's area of responsibility.
>>
THAT is a VERY promising idea. Just make sure that the control platforms have
backups, as they will become a priority target...I envision a command station
(maybe just part of the starport, or more logically a separate station). It
controls gobs of remote (or manned if you prefer...) control platforms,
which in turn control gobs of det laser mines...You could go globular, or if
defending a planet, have the station hooked up to com sats to "talk" to the
control platforms blocked by the planet. This last point is redundant with
meson communication however...If you REALLY want to get nuts, let the local
SDBs, monitors, or even fighters have the ability to talk to and command the
control platforms. This has the advantage of defending against a C3I strike
(if HQ is dead, the mines can still be turned on...). The disadvantage is
that lower echelons of command can control a strategic asset... (Ensign
Pulver, you stand accused of ordering the system defense mines to target and
destroy the star liner Imperial Flatulence, containing 3679 souls onboard.
"But it was an accident, I thought they were a Vargr Cruiser....)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:29:05 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: Clothing of the future
Since we are testing chameleon battle dress and medical monitoring
technology today we may need to re-evaluate Trav tech levels and place this
in the TL12 to 14 range.
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: Clothing of the future
> Dear Folks -
>
> Frank said:
> >Imagine a form of all-over, 'skin-tight' clothing that not only acts a
> >24-bit LCD display connected to an integral CPU and RAM powered by static
>
> [snip great description of a high-tech magic item]
>
> >TL 13 ?
>
> Ah, since I place Predator dynamic chameleon armour at TL 17, I'd say this
is TL
> 18+.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
> of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
> position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1809
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Traveller-digest Monday, January 24 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1810
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Clothing of the future - three words, plastic p lastic ...
Re: UNCLASSIFIED Clothing of the future - three words, plastic plastic plastic
find asimov's bottomos story
Re: find asimov's bottomos story
Tattoos of the future.
Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
Re: Big computers
Re: Conspiracy campaign idea (was: Traveller without psionics)
Re: Mines
Re: high tech clothing
Weird Patents...
Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
MT does it Thusly
Re: Clothing of the future
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1808
Automata
Re: nuclear shotgun (was Re: Mines)
Re: Big computers
Interdiction Mines
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:37:51 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Clothing of the future - three words, plastic p lastic ...
In a message dated 1/24/00 7:00:45 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au writes:
<< This 'invisible seam' might also be useful for Clandestine stuff - eg carry
a pistol in a shoulder holster under a pull-over or coveralls and when the
weapon is required, a handy flap flaps open to gain access to said weapon.
It could even be the ultimate pocket flap - no opening unless the wearer
runs his/her finger along where the opening will open. I think IISS Utility
vests worked along these lines. >>
It already exists. When I was a police officer, I carried my back up weapon
in a "belly band" during the summer This is a spandex band with a small
holster built in. It's worn under the uniform shirt. To draw, you just rip
your shirt open with your non dominant hand and draw with your strong hand.
Losing your buttons is a small price to pay...:-). Now someone has come up
with the bright idea of having a flap built in to dress shirts. It's sealed
with velcro, so you dont lose your shirt buttons any more. I asume if
civilian shirts are available this way, so are uniform shirts. Especially now
as many bullet RESISTANT (I hate when they are referred to as bullet proof.
Rifles laugh at them) vests have velcro attachments for holsters. I do
suspect that in the third Imperium, these gadgets will be much more
comfortable and less bulky....
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:43:32 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: UNCLASSIFIED Clothing of the future - three words, plastic plastic plastic
In a message dated 1/24/00 9:17:32 AM !!!First Boot!!!, tiamat@tsoft.com
writes:
<< It's OK, if I never have to wear pantyhose again I will be MORE than happy.
Tights when it's cold, sure, but I hate pantyhose. >>
How about garters and hose?....:-). Of course when I played ice hockey, I
hated them; felt like a transvestite...:-). BTW; my wife hates them too...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:43:54 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: find asimov's bottomos story
- ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:34:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes was: Imperial Politics
In mail you write:
> On Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:46:46 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
> Erickson) wrote:
>
>>>> to include THE THIRD WORLD; the three moons of Mars (Phobos, Demos and
>>>> Bottommos)....
>>>
>>> Since when does Mars have three moons?
>>
>>Bottomos is from an old SF story. Complete silliness and much fun.
>>Basicly, it was incredibly massive, about a yard across, and orbiting
>>about a meter above ground level...
>
> Yeah, that's pretty damn silly. I've heard about that story before... so
> that was Asimov that came up with it, huh?
I don't think it was Asimov. Much as he liked bad jokes, I don't think
he could bring himself to ignore science to the required extent.
> Assuming for the moment that there are no mascons ("mass concentrations",
> as charted by various Moon-orbiting spacecraft back in the 1960s) to
> distort Bottommos's path, it's going to be subject to considerable
> atmospheric drag at sea level, even in Mars's thin air. That drag should
> have caused it to deorbit long ago: first brushing the surface, then
> skidding along it (digging a nice groove), and then...
All details that the story ignored.
- - --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:45:30 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: find asimov's bottomos story
Dear Folks -
Sorry! That was meant for home, not the TML. Ma'af!
- - Hyphen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:46:41 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Tattoos of the future.
From: Frank G. Pitt
> Imagine a form of all-over, 'skin-tight' clothing that not only acts a
> 24-bit LCD display connected to an integral CPU and RAM
> powered by static electricity to allow constantly changing coloured
> patterns or even video to be displayed across your skin surface,
I almost forgot! Thanks for reminding me! This is old news, and some of you
may have already heard of it. What I find astonishingly interesting is this
has been picked up by Jack Van Impe inspired fundamentalist doomsday
profits... er... I mean prophets as a sign that the mark of the beast is
nearly upon us. Enjoy.
From ABCNEWS.com, reprinted without permission.
Shimmering Tattoos on Implanted Screens!
Imagine Billboards on Rodman
By Teresa Riordan
ABCNEWS.com Patent Correspondent
Picture Dennis Rodman, the resplendently-tattooed Chicago Bulls rebounder.
Now try to imagine what Rodman would look like if all his tattoos could be
digitally programmed, constantly morphing from one image into another.
Once you get a fix on that psychedelic image, stretch your imagination
a bit more: these tattoos are not etched into the skin but, rather, are
liquid-crystal displays implanted beneath. They glow through the translucent
skin, which acts sort of like a projection screen.
Interval Research Corp., a high-tech R&D firm based in Palo Alto,
Calif., has just received a patent that appears to cover exactly this kind
of subcutaneous electronic tattoo.
According to the patent, the tattoo could have a receiver embedded
inside so that it could receive programming signals. Alternatively, the
patent states, the tattoo could include "a microelectrode port which
receives programming information via acupuncture needles."
Skin Deep Information
Alas, the company is rather uncommunicative on the subject of its new
patent. Repeated calls to one of the inventors, software developer Andrew J.
Singer, were never returned. Interval Research did fax a statement,
acknowledging that the invention might have fashion and communications
applications. (Perhaps the Maxwell Smart of the 21st century won't use a
shoe phone-he'll just whisper directly into his wrist).
But the fax also noted that the patent covers medical applications.
Instead of wearing medical-alert bracelets, patients with life-threatening
conditions could have those bracelets essentially implanted into their
wrists. According to the fax, "If the person became unconscious, this could
be a place to display their vital signs and provide others with information
on medical allergies, emergency information, etc." For example, the
subcutaneous bracelet could give ongoing readouts of blood pressure, body
temperature or glucose levels.
The company contends it is "not doing anything commercially active with
the patent at this time." Nevertheless, company chairman David Liddle, who
started Interval Research with Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, has recently
hinted the company is developing "wearable technology." So if Rodman shows
up on the court someday soon with an electronic tattoo, remember: You read
it here first.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:47:11 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
Dear Folks -
Dom wrote:
>I suspect that you're saying that the BtC change stuck in your Craw?
Blast it, Dom, that was going to be _my_ joke...!
- - Hyphen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:57:48 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Big computers
Dear Folks -
Jim wrote:
>Can we install some Hand Waves here? I like the idea of scads of robots
>being part of the landscape...
[snip]
> It seems a pity to have these cool things and not use them.
Hey, you can use them, no problem! It's YTU!
Seriously tho', the only people who allow robots to fly starships are the
Hivers. They have entire military campaigns prosecuted by Bruiser robots. All
you need to do is work out how to reconcile (a) the canonical ability to program
a robot brain with Pilot-4 (Book 8) and (b) the fact that robot pilots are not
used in the Imperium - not even for xboats. Actually, I *think* there is a
reference to robotic cargo missiles being used to resupply distant planets like
Pluto, but that's it - realspace only.
From memory, either Loren or DGP's Joe Fugate was asked this very question. They
responded with a mini-essay, explaining what you need to do to build a robotic
pilot. They concluded with the line, "But would YOU trust your life to the first
jump-vector they come up with?"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:37:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Conspiracy campaign idea (was: Traveller without psionics)
In mail you write:
> This sounds a look like M A R Barkers description of a possible reason why
> Tekumel, and a host of other star systems fell into there own pocket
> dimensions. A side effect of what he called the three-light drive. Or was
> that Grandfather using a jump drive to create his own pocket dimensions?
> Antony
The PCs have made a *bad* misjump. Describe the planet they are
orbiting. See if any of them recognize the continental outlines on
Tekumel. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:15:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mines
In mail you write:
>>> The field can be re-seeded periodically to close "distructively
>>>swept" portions of the field, simply by pushing a few mines towards the
>>>planet on a course that will wind up an orbital intercept. Leonard has
>>>posted a few times that this is the sort of stuff you can figure on a
>>>calculator and scrap paper.
>>
>>As long as the mines aren't all in the same orbit, the gaps will disappear
>>in less than an hour without trying.
>>
>
> Really? I don't know a lot about orbital mechanics, so I'll defer
> to you. However, re-seeding would still be required just to keep the
> density of the field up.
Actually, the problem is getting orbital distribution such that there
*aren't* "gaps" at random times.
You can't put them all in polar orbits, because that gets them
clustered *too* thick over the poles unless you can get *really*
creative with distribution.
So you'll have a mix of orbital planes. First thing to keep in mind is
that the plane of the orbit must pass thru the *center* of the planet.
Second is that it is possible to tip the orbit *two* ways with regards
to the equatorial plane.
Easiest way to describe this is that one angle describes the angle
between the equatorial plane and the orbital plane, the other describes
the angle between a fixed reference line in the equatorial plane and
the line of intersection of the tilted orbit and the orbital plane.
The *period* of the orbit depends on the "semi-major axis". For an
elliptical orbibt, this is half the long axis of the ellipse. For a
circle, it's the radius.
Determining where a body is in an elliptical orbit is a pain (the speed
varies), so just consider the circular case. The farther out, the
slower the mine orbits.
For circular Keplerian orbits where:
Vc = velocity of a circular orbit
Vesc = escape velocity
M = Total mass of orbiting and orbited bodies
G = Gravitational constant (defined below)
u = G * M (can be measured much more accurately than G or M)
K = -G * M / 2 / a
r = radius of orbit (measured from center of mass of system)
V = orbital velocity
P = orbital period
a = semimajor axis of orbit
Vc = sqrt(M * G / r)
Vesc = sqrt(2 * M * G / r) = sqrt(2) * Vc
V^2 = u/a
P = 2 pi/(Sqrt(u/a^3))
K = 1/2 V**2 - G * M / r (conservation of energy)
The period of an eccentric orbit is the same as the period
of a circular orbit with the same semi-major axis.
With the above, plus some co-ordinate transforms, you should be able to
program a simulation.
> So treat a det-laser as a USP C spinal PAWS under HG for hit
> probabilities and damage... 12 hits per attack, even without criticals,
> will break *something*... and that energy level or higher isn't
> un-reasonable given the way the weapon is pumped...
Then it's going to have to be *huge*. Too huge to stealth easily.
>>On the other hand, "distructively sweeping" :-) with a merchant out of
>>book 2 would probably just add another wreck to the orbital clutter.
> I'm not sure there would be that much left.... ;-)
It takes a *huge* amounts of energy to vaporize a ship. Thousands, if
not millions of times more than it takes to destroy it as a useful
object.
There *will* be lots of debris. Especially from anything that can get a
one-shot kill.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:31:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: high tech clothing
In mail you write:
> Sound a lot like the mono-molecular suite LeFarge wears in S.M. Stirling's
> book "Drakon."
> That suit also had the ability to harden on sudden impact, making it bullet
> resistant.
> Note that I typed "bullet resistant", not "bullet proof." The Draka armed
> her human servants with .50 Caliber Barret Light Fifties for a reason. :-)
>
> This is a subtle distinction that many young gamers miss. Still a topic of
> humor in my group. A fellow sat in one of our SR games and gave me a
> clueless look when I tried to correct his statement "My Elven Physical
> Adept has a bullet proof suit." Shortly after this, we had to explain the
> concept of a 'fire sack' to him. :-)
In "Skylark Three", Richard Seatoon has a bullet *proof* suit. A thin
arenak shell, with force beams "anchoring" it against impacts of
anything big enough to knock him over. :-)
From what I recall about arenak, you'd have to have dropped a
battleship on him to crack it.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:09:22 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Weird Patents...
The article I posted concerning tattoos of the future is from a section on
the ABCNEWS.com feature "Patently Weird". Oh man, that section is addictive.
My favorite so far has got to be the article, which was entitled "Ant Colony
Meets Star Trek", with the small headline, "Bug Gore in all its Glory"
It's U.S. Patent 5,732,651, and it "could be described as a holographic ant
colony." According to the article, "You stick a transparent cartridge of
ants into the device, which resembles a periscope, and suddenly you have
ants with mandibles the size of chain saws hovering menacingly in the air
before you."
The best part, the inventor, a warped fellow named Donald Spector hopes to
compete with the violent youthful diversions on the market. He says,
"Insects are very violent, particularly ants. When you see them
macroscopically, they are gory. You see them fighting and one of them will
get a segment cut off and blood starts spurting out."
Oh man. I love technology. I want one.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:55:04 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
>>Thus 10 battledressed Marines can do 1 hull point of
>>damage to a starship with their PCMPs. The same
>>goes for 10 generic aircraft missiles.
>>
>>Anyone else have to deal with these unwritten rules?
>
>Then you have to use the "100 HP will breach a hull, 1000 HP will create a
>man-sized hole" rules. Or just shoot at the windows (pinpoint hit) and say the
>armour class is halved.
>
>Anyway, all of this is why in MT, I divide the published ship weapon "ground
>combat" damage by 10 (this includes all of Bill Hostman's otherwise excellent
>extrapolated MT ship weapons tables).
Actually, there was Official Errata in the Referee's Gaming Kit: Vehicles'
(including spacecraft) Damage Capacities are supposed to be multiplied by
10.
>Natch, people will disagree. Those who thrashed out the T4 ship weapons state
>that ship weapons are vastly different to tank weapons. A T4/TNE/FF&S ship's
>laser fires a beam a metre across, while in the same system a tank
>weapon's beam
>is centimetres across.
>
One of the problems with striker was that everything was based upon Pen.
Having separate Pen and Damage values accounds for the very similar Pen
values for a 5cm beam vs a 50cm beam, while allowing said 50cm beam to do
VASTLY more damage IF IT PENETRATES. This is my main reason for my
immediate switch from striker to MT when MT came out.
I do use the Erratum for x10 damage point capacites on all vehicles, rather
than reducing the damages.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:13:22 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: MT does it Thusly
>Well, it looks like Eris' idea is better, but both suffer
>from the same problem: too many dice! Now you see how
>picky I am about dice rolling. Sigh! Maybe I should just
>stick with some MT variant, like having the target numbers
>increase by 3s or something. How did MT do it? 4, 7, 10,
>13, 16?
>
>Rob
No. Try 3,7,11,15,19.
Me, I use 4,8,12,16,20 and divide by 3 when using MT CGen as written.
When I use the T4 rate of 1 skill per year, I still divide by 3, and make
20 "Staggering" or whatever T4 calls it, and add a 24 to the end.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:17:23 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Clothing of the future
Dear Folks -
Thom wrote:
>> Ah, since I place Predator dynamic chameleon armour at TL 17, I'd say
>> this is TL 18+.
>
>Since we are testing chameleon battle dress and medical monitoring
>technology today we may need to re-evaluate Trav tech levels and place this
>in the TL12 to 14 range.
That's always a problem in an s-f game, reality outstrips the fantasy. Just look
at the TML's current re-hash of the "big computers" thread.
I prefer to try to match up any "new" technology to previously published stuff.
So, at TL 13+, starship hulls can be made to change colour to different, static
patterns. At TL 15, this is applied to personal armour - Marine-dress
battledress is maroon, but is set to DPM in the jungle, white in the snow, etc.
They *can* do IR-matching with the background, but I postulate dynamic
visual-spectrum matching to be of a higher TL. TL 17 sounds good, just out of
reach of the 3I, up until Regency times.
Frank's "liquid clothing", to me, speaks of even higher tech. That's why I
pegged it as TL 18. YMMV.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:20:33 EST
From: GaryBartz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1808
In a message dated 1/24/00 6:18:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
<< That being said, there almost HAS to be an Imperial
religion, ancient and with mystical, prehistoric roots.
Pre-historic in that there were no Scouts to record
it and publish their findings.
>>
I disagree, Imperial faith came and went. The worst being the divine Caesar,
Nero et al, the best being Constantine and his edicts of allowing all faiths,
even though he did allow bishops the power to free slaves and travel at
government expense and government produced bibles [although the last were
only fair, as the state had burned so many of the old ones], a slender
favoring after God granted him victory at the Mulvian bridge.
It is entirely possible that the Empire could exist without a central faith,
in fact much of the early expansion took place because the Romans offered the
gods of their enemies a better deal in Rome as a new god then they got as the
head dude in their current home. An official faith culture such as you
describe could never do that.
Gary
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:28:12 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Automata
> Can we install some Hand Waves here? I like the idea of scads of robots
>being part of the landscape, maybe at TL15 robots can only replace 2/3's of
>a crew stations, TL14 is 1/2, TL 13 is 1/3 and TL 12 is 1/4?
> Some crew areas may not be replaced, civilian robots may not take up
>combat areas. (Note: I use MT so I'm using the MT definitions of crewing)
>which would include Bridge, Gunnery and Command.
> It seems a pity to have these cool things and not use them.
> Jim
Well, for us MT types, we build the body & PP out of Ref's Manual, and
install brains, armes, etc., out of CT Bk 8... and we build our virtual
crewmembers. Or we just use Bk 8 as written even. And we can build custom
"Computers" using the Bk 8 rules with the fix for them in 101 Vehicles.
(Robot Brains generate IIRC a cp multipler of 250 per point of Int.) I've
designed a few ships this way.... using the integral Robots for Brige and
Gunnery, but self-mobiles for engineering, maint, and Electronics.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:41:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: nuclear shotgun (was Re: Mines)
In mail you write:
> Does this make sense? You are converting the x-rays into kinetic energy. Why
> bother? You are probably losing orders of magnitude of energy in the
> conversion.
Nope. In fact, you can get something like 50% conversion If I recall
the original article.
> Isn't it better to focus the resulting x-ray laser blast on the
> target?
It's *not* an X-ray laser blast. Just x-rays going *mostly* in the
direction you want. Think of it as a really bright flash from an x-ray
flashbulb.
nuke pumped x-ray lasers use a *tiny* fraction of the x-ray output of a
bomb to "pump" rods of material that destructively "lase". You only get
a fraction of a percent of the bomb energy in the laser pulse.
> Can someone give me some back-of-the-envelope calculations which
> justify this as a useful weapon? Can you even do this, or will the fireball
> vaporize all of your pellets?
There *isn't* a fireball when you are in a vacuum. 99% of the bomb's
energy comes out as x-rays. In air, they get absorbed within meters,
superheating the air, and creating the fireball.
In vacuum, they radiate out and the remaing 1% vaporizes the bomb
rather more sedately.
The "styrofoam" layer vaporises faster and more predicatably, allowing
you to "couple" it to the "BBs" more easily. And the temps won't be
high enough to hurt graphite coated steel (demonstrated in some early
tests).
1 megaton = 4.2e15 J.
Let's asume I can transfer merely 10% of this to the BBs. That's
4.2e14 J. So, if I had a million BBs, they'd each have a kinetic energy
of 420 MJ. Just *one* of those hitting a ship is going to be noticed.
If each weighs merely a gram, it's moving at about 916 km/sec.
But a million BBs is an awful lot. And 916 km/sec is kinda slow.
Let's go for *10,000* (a 100x100 array). That's 42 GJ each!
mass velocity time to total mass
cross 60 Mm of projectiles
- ---- ----------- ----------- ---------------
1kg 290 km/sec 207 sec 10 tons
100 g 917 km/sec 65 sec 1 ton
10 g 2.90 Mm/sec 21 sec 100 kg
1 g 9.17 Mm/sec 7 sec 10 kg
Obviously, the weapon itself is going to have to mass more than the
projectiles. But even a 20 ton *mass* won't take up more than a few
cubic meters. So even the 1 kg projectile version will easily fit in 1
dT (13.5 or 14 cubic meters).
Since this is a moderately wide spread of projectiles, the spread will
(likely) be aimed so that it's a virtual certainty to hit a small ship
at 30 Mm and thus about a 1 in 4 chance at 60 Mm.
So the likely projectile sizes will be 100 gram or less, simply to
decrease the manuevering time for the target and thus decrease the
chance that it can get outside the target cone. Also, lighter
projectiles are easier to boost than heavier ones.
If we use the "several mines fire from different directions" bit, a
ship has pretty much had it.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:42:45 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Big computers
From:
> Seriously tho', the only people who allow robots to fly starships are
> the Hivers. They have entire military campaigns prosecuted by
> Bruiser robots. All you need to do is work out how to reconcile (a)
> the canonical ability to program a robot brain with Pilot-4 (Book 8)
> and (b) the fact that robot pilots are not used in the Imperium - not
> even for xboats.
Which can be a Herculean feat in and of itself. The best way is to be honest
with yourself and other players: it doesn't *feel* like Traveller.
> From memory, either Loren or DGP's Joe Fugate was asked this
> very question. They responded with a mini-essay, explaining what
> you need to do to build a robotic pilot. They concluded with the line,
> "But would YOU trust your life to the first jump-vector they come up
> with?"
Well, why wouldn't I? Is there some bit of interesting trivia about jump as
viewed by either Wiseman or Fugate which would convince me not to trust a
computer's mathematical ability in the role?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:49:03 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Interdiction Mines
On the thread of mines in Traveller...
Announcing the Interdiction Mine System from Dalinaag, LIC. This system is
comprised of a 20Td launcher system, and it's components. To use, put the
launcher system in equitorial orbit, at 10 diameters or so. Engage the
countdown, and get away.
What it is: A pair of VRF Gauss Guns, a model 1 computer, a 1G antigrav
thruster, a small PP, a dumb robot brain, and lots of ammo. Just keep
chucking rounds into polar orbits... Counter-rotating orbits, BTW, and when
it runs out of ammo, it pulls up. You now have a hail of particles in polar
orbits, at really nice velocities at near-right-angles to any landing
vessel's probable flight plan, plus half of them matched and half opposed
to polar orbits. WHen you figure the orbital velocity, then plug the
numbers through 3G3, you come up with some NICE figures.... enough to
really hurt even large ships.
Dumping 10Td of 4x40mm gauss slugs gives QUITE a spread, and you can drop
multiple units for multiple saturation....
Lessee: assuming 10diams on a 1600km diam... 16Mm radius. SA of a sphere =
what?
IIRC 4/3 Pi*r^2... 1.07E15 square meters, and we'll need about 1 per 100
sqare meters to assure a hit. so we need about 1.1E13 (11,000,000,000,000)
projectiles. Hmm... I think it needs to be 100Td, or so. Or you'll need
about 20 of these. Still, not too expensive. Especially if you use Fuel
Cells for power, rather than fusion. Don't need much, either.
You will need the M-Drive to counter the spin from the VRF Gauss Guns.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1810
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, January 25 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1811
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Every thing In Threes
Re: Mines
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Re: Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Every thing In Threes
Re: Conspiracy campaign idea (was: Traveller without psionics)
Re: Interdiction Mines
Robots (was Re: Big computers)
Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
Re: Marishal material
Re: Imperial Politics
re: Rob's Traveller Software
Re: Spinward Marches World Data (was Smashed Creativity)
Re: Armed Kangeroos
Psionics
Clothes, space age. (long)
Re: nuclear shotgun (was Re: Mines)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:39:48 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes
>Well, I leave the effects of a neutronium sphere slamming into Mars and
>transferring most of its orbital momentum to the crust to your imagination.
> (And you thought beanstalk accidents were unpleasant.)
You want a beanstalk accident? Read Kim Stanley Robinson's award-winning
novel Red Mars for a great example of one... though it really wasn't an
accident as such, as the people who caused it to happen *wanted* it to
happen.
ObTrav: how do beanstalks fit in with Traveller tech? Are they common?
Rare but not unknown? Completely theoretical? This past weekend my
Traveller game wound up at Capital (just in time to watch Dulinor get
blowed up real good -- it's GURPS Traveller), and the players figured
that if any planet in the Imperium had one, it'd be Capital, so I said
"why not?" and gave it one... But are there any canon references to one?
And if not, how likely are they?
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:49:56 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Mines
At 06:15 PM 1/24/00 PST, you wrote:
[snip]
>> So treat a det-laser as a USP C spinal PAWS under HG for hit
>> probabilities and damage... 12 hits per attack, even without criticals,
>> will break *something*... and that energy level or higher isn't
>> un-reasonable given the way the weapon is pumped...
>
>Then it's going to have to be *huge*. Too huge to stealth easily.
>
>>>On the other hand, "distructively sweeping" :-) with a merchant out of
>>>book 2 would probably just add another wreck to the orbital clutter.
>
>> I'm not sure there would be that much left.... ;-)
>
>It takes a *huge* amounts of energy to vaporize a ship. Thousands, if
>not millions of times more than it takes to destroy it as a useful
>object.
>
>There *will* be lots of debris. Especially from anything that can get a
>one-shot kill.
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
Hi, Leonard! Another interesting post, thank-you.
Question for you or anyone else who dabbles in these things to some
fashion. Det-Lasers; if you pump the wretch with a one mega-ton device,
how *inefficient* is the damn thing that you don't get a USP C PAWS
effectiveness out of it? I mean, you can put a 1Mt weapon in an ICBM at TL
8....
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
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Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:02:47 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
From: Steven Hudson
> Almost anything is possible, but I'm accepting the conventional
> wisdom that I've heard oft-repeated that the current papal policies
> are costing the Church adherents, or at least making many of the
> faithful dissidents in private.
Well, as I may or may not have said in a previous message, Catholic Church
politics "in the trenches" are frequently quite different from Vatican
politics. For example, I went to a Jesuit school which had a very thorough
sex education class taught by an extremely good teacher who openly and
actively spoke in favor of birth control. There were a number of major
places where the teachers, in some cases priests, diverged from the "party
line".
However, there are two major caveats here. On the one hand, the Jesuits are
anything but a typical Catholic Order, and on the other, the politics of
Philadelphia's religious communities in general are very odd.
Still, there is always the potential for a shift toward conservatism in the
Western world, and lets face it: the canon Third Imperium looks awfully
conservative in the traditional sense of the word. One wonders how it would
come to look like that, and why Western *Terran* terms would be used in
reference to the nobility.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:09:26 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
From: Mark Urbin
> No, no, no...It will be the NEA calling for military intervention so they
> don't have to rewrite any course material
Okay. I *know* I'm going to regret this... but... huh?
Or as a famous man - small in stature, but larger than life in thought and
action - once said: "Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?" :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:21:58 EST
From: "Andrew Long"
Subject: Re: Re: Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
>On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:52:02 -0500 "Chris Seamans" wrote:-
>Subject: Re: Official Anthropology, Politics and Religion Thread 2000
>
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
>
>
> > It is seen as oppressive only because people learn in Sunday
> > School that Christianity was oppressed there without being told all
> > the reasons for this.
>
>I didn't learn it in Sunday school, I learned it by reading Tacitus. He was
>quite clear on the reason why Christians were tortured and murdered:
>Accusations made by Nero against the Christians, concerning the burning of
>Rome. Tacitus stated that the Christians had not been responsible for the
>fires, but deserved the fates they received due to their general
>wretchedness.
>
>Tacitus cited many lurid legends concerning the misanthropic nature of the
>Christians. Many of these are similar, if not identical to the legends
>which the Romans circulated concerning the evil practices of the Jews.
>
For a once-over-lightly look at the state of the early Christian church in
Rome, and a damn good 'whodunnit', you can't do much better than look at
Barbra Hambly's 'The Quirinnal Hills Affair', sometimes known as 'Search the
Seven Hills'.
This book follows the trals and tribulations of a young Roman nobleman
trying to find the love of his life, who has been kidnapped by the
Christians in order to participate in their hideous rituals (in one way or
another), before a) that ritual takes place, and b) her father (the prefect
of the City) returns from his estates in Sicily.
I don't think I've given away any more of the plot than can be gleaned from
reading the first chapter. You may be surprised by BOTH sides of the story.
Highly recommended
regards, Andy Long
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Andy Long Email: andrewlong@hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:21:42 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
From: Leonard Erickson
> I almost went to a Jesuit run prep school.
My friend went to a Jesuit run university, and there's a possibility I might
end up at one soon too. :)
I considered going into the seminary when I was 18, but then I remembered
that I wasn't Catholic. It seemed cool at the time, I would get to wear all
black and cast out demons and stuff.
Although I was an Epsicopalian acolyte for a few years, and at that time in
my life I thought it was *really* cool, 'cause according to the AD&D rules I
was officially a 1st level cleric.
> Also, remind folks that Cardinal Richelieu was a Jesuit. As were the
> Catholic priests in "Shogun".
Ha! :)
> Look on the bright side, if the Dominicans were after you you for
> anything short of a *major* religious faux pas, the Jesuits will
> cheerfully lend you a hand just to spite the Dominicans.
Yeah, there was much in the way of intrigue among the Reformed Orders of the
Catholic Church.
> Of course, the aid can't be anything that interferes with the Jesuits'
> plans, or is *too* much trouble. But if a modest effort will annoy the
> hell out of the Dominicans, they'll go for it.
The Jesuits were to provide aid at various points during the campaign. The
plot was extremely convoluted and was centered around a young girl, the Holy
Grail / bloodline of Christ theory, Franciscan clone vats, and the bizarre
religious terrain of mid-21st century America. Did I mention that the
Knights Templar and the little known legend that they made it to America
were involved as well?
The combination just *screamed* "fun". :)
[Interestingly enough, despite the fact that such a plotline could have come
from the warped mind of Pyramid's Kenneth Hite, there was no influence]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:38:49 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes
>>>Bottomos is from an old SF story. Complete silliness and much fun.
>>>Basicly, it was incredibly massive, about a yard across, and orbiting
>>>about a meter above ground level...
>>
>> Yeah, that's pretty damn silly. I've heard about that story before... so
>> that was Asimov that came up with it, huh?
>
>I don't think it was Asimov. Much as he liked bad jokes, I don't think
>he could bring himself to ignore science to the required extent.
I wouldn't say that. The story (and I can't for the life of me remember
the title...) was one of many he wrote that was nothing more than an
excuse for a cute punchline. In cases like these, everything else is
put by the wayside.
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:43:01 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Conspiracy campaign idea (was: Traveller without psionics)
I actually did this many years ago. This was back in the days of EPT, which
was *really* far from Barker's vision of Tekumel. But we still had fun. In
Traveller terms, much of the Tekumel technology is still very advanced,
maybe TL18 to 20. Maybe higher. Way past the level of the 3I.
(Digression.) If you think Traveller version (or whatever) fanatics are bad
(and they are - I am one), you should try Tekumel fanatics! I could go on
about this for quite a while, but since it's a *Traveller* list, I won't.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Leonard Erickson
To:
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Conspiracy campaign idea (was: Traveller without psionics)
> In mail you write:
>
> > This sounds a look like M A R Barkers description of a possible reason
why
> > Tekumel, and a host of other star systems fell into there own pocket
> > dimensions. A side effect of what he called the three-light drive. Or
was
> > that Grandfather using a jump drive to create his own pocket dimensions?
> > Antony
>
> The PCs have made a *bad* misjump. Describe the planet they are
> orbiting. See if any of them recognize the continental outlines on
> Tekumel. :-)
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:50:20 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Interdiction Mines
>Announcing the Interdiction Mine System from Dalinaag, LIC. This system is
>comprised of a 20Td launcher system, and it's components. To use, put the
>launcher system in equitorial orbit, at 10 diameters or so. Engage the
>countdown, and get away.
>
>What it is: A pair of VRF Gauss Guns, a model 1 computer, a 1G antigrav
>thruster, a small PP, a dumb robot brain, and lots of ammo. Just keep
>chucking rounds into polar orbits
>William F. Hostman
I hope you guys never plan on going back to this planet, orbit appears
kinda unsafe from now on. This mine is going to make landing impossible and
the det lasers are letting off niclear explosions in orbit! I don't want to
be that protected.
Jim : )
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:51:12 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Robots (was Re: Big computers)
Robots can add a very interesting element to a game. I once ran an adventure
in which the group were Zhodani trying to sneak into the 3I to do devious
things. Based on the Zhodani having robots in the AHL game, the group had a
number of robots to help them with things. That, plus the Zhodani psionics,
made a very interesting game.
(Digression.) Based upon events in the game (i.e. clever uses of psionics),
I assume that the Imperium must have some sort of ultra-super-top-secret
psionics unit to counter the Zhodani threat. Otherwise, they are open to
lots of tricks.
Just because robots are scarce in Imperial space doesn't mean that they
won't be found elsewhere. I assume that this is for non-technical reasons.
Like the reason NASA is fixated on *manned* spaceflight.
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: Big computers
> Dear Folks -
>
> Jim wrote:
> >Can we install some Hand Waves here? I like the idea of scads of robots
> >being part of the landscape...
>
> [snip]
>
> > It seems a pity to have these cool things and not use them.
>
> Hey, you can use them, no problem! It's YTU!
>
> Seriously tho', the only people who allow robots to fly starships are the
> Hivers. They have entire military campaigns prosecuted by Bruiser robots.
All
> you need to do is work out how to reconcile (a) the canonical ability to
program
> a robot brain with Pilot-4 (Book 8) and (b) the fact that robot pilots are
not
> used in the Imperium - not even for xboats. Actually, I *think* there is a
> reference to robotic cargo missiles being used to resupply distant planets
like
> Pluto, but that's it - realspace only.
>
> >From memory, either Loren or DGP's Joe Fugate was asked this very
question. They
> responded with a mini-essay, explaining what you need to do to build a
robotic
> pilot. They concluded with the line, "But would YOU trust your life to the
first
> jump-vector they come up with?"
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
> of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
> position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:57:56 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
Dear Folks -
William Hostman said:
>Actually, there was Official Errata in the Referee's Gaming Kit: Vehicles'
>(including spacecraft) Damage Capacities are supposed to be multiplied by
>10.
Er, I use that errata as well. Sorry.
It means that the _best_ tank weapon does 30 dice, while the _least_ ship weapon
does 50 dice, while a P-gun turret does 200 dice (albiet only in orbit ;-). That
means a _civilian_ ship is still going to be able to scrap a tank in one or two
shots, without even having to have rules for "mega-damage" weapons...
In my mind, this idea makes the system _playable_, especially in terms of
balancing civ vs mil capabilities. Mebbee not "realistic" (whatever that means,
when you have anti-grav, j-drives, and fusion guns), but playable, without going
overboard.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:00:06 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Marishal material
>In a message dated 1/22/00 2:21:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
>
>> Does anyone know who owns the copyright on the Marishal material?
>> Furthermore, does anyone have a complete set which they are willing to
>part
>> with or at least donate photocopies?
>
>I imagine it went to William Keith. I do have/did have permission from Andrew
>Keith to include it on the HIWG CD (it's not on there yet though since my
>wife 'borrowed' my scanner money, plus general lack of time.).
>
>As for photocopies if I can find them something might be arranged.
Paul Saunders is publishing a lot of the Keith material. Try contacting him.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:01:31 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Imperial Politics
>>*Hm. Imperial Service has three parts. The whole Imperial government is a
>>troika (Imperial Service, nobles, megacorps). The Solomani are a Troika,
>>the Vilani have three Bureaux, and the Droyne had, originally three castes.
>>A coincidence? A fine seed for an Illuminated campaign here, I think. :-)
>
>Goodness gracious, I think you're on to something here. Just in this
>mundane world alone we have several examples of triad groupings. The
>Christian trinity (Father / Son / Holy Spirit). The Three Kings from
>the Christian nativity scene. Three cheers (hip-hip-hoorah/hooray).
>The Three Little Kittens (who have lost their mittens). Rub-a-dub-dub,
>three men in a tub. My Three Sons. The list goes on...
And never forget Marc, Frank, and Loren, who brought us Traveller...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:04:12 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: re: Rob's Traveller Software
>>At 21:07 -0500 22/1/00, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>>>Okay, all you Macinphiles...what is the minimum Mac
>>>hardware/software required to run Rob Prior's Traveller software?
>>>CPU, Ram, HD space, OS level?
>Frankly, I was thinking about a older, used powerbook. Maybe
>something like a 160 or 170.
Easiest way to test it: download the demo (www.bits.org.uk) and run it on
the computer you're thinking of. If the demo runs, the full version will.
The only thing that _might_ cause problems is screen size: some earlier
powerbooks had fairly small screens, and some of the bigger dialog boxes
don't entire fit on the screen. It worked OK on our 180.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:18:27 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Spinward Marches World Data (was Smashed Creativity)
>
>(Best example: the world of Craw was detailed in two complete articles by
>the Keith brothers, complete with map. All of that excellent work was
>ignored in the description in BtC.)
>
>
>And WHERE was this information? I'd love to get it on file...
Ah, I found the issues. JTAS 10 and 11.
A complete walk-through, explaining the process of world-building, the
choices they considered, and their reasons for making the ones they did.
(Essentially: figure out what's scientifically plausible, then choose the
option that gives the most gaming possibilities.)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:08:40 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Armed Kangeroos
From: Jim & Peta Lawrie
> A quokka is a small wallaby like animal that lives in south-western
> australia, they live in huge basalt towers apon which their large
sattelite
> arrays pick up all the information beamed to them by their info-gathering
> minions as they ceaselessly fight the forces of evil.
> Didn't you learn ANYTHING at school?
> Jim
> (For more info, I'll have to take this off list.)
IIRC, a wallaby is a small variety of kangaroo. Many are the
size of rabbits some smaller yet, perhaps as small as rats.
However; I do not recall ever hearing of a quokka. Please
let me know more.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
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__________________________________________
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Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:11:56 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Psionics
>(Digression.) Based upon events in the game (i.e. clever uses of psionics),
>I assume that the Imperium must have some sort of ultra-super-top-secret
>psionics unit to counter the Zhodani threat. Otherwise, they are open to
>lots of tricks.
At TL12 psionic shielding is an option for armour according to the MT
IE, it only cost 4000cr and does not seem to appreciably weigh anything. It
blocks against psionic mind reading and life sensing. (And everyone said the
Imperials don't do psionic research!)
I think at higher TL's you could definitely add options to hulls,
stopping those lousy Zho teleporting marines doing their voodoo. It's
strange but this line of research achieves the shielding, various psi drugs
and then stops - right about the time of the suppressions. This is what
happens when you suppress knowledge, you end up needing it.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:15:00 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Clothes, space age. (long)
Forwarded from the Command Decision list, space age uniforms now.
>Federal Computer Week 1/10/00 p18-30 (specificaly p26-30) "The Shape
>of Things to Come" article "Soldier 2025"
>
>The Army Soldier Systems Center at Natick, Mass. (along w/ MIT, NASA,
>National Protection Center of the Institute for Justice, etc) have
>developed
>a new prototype smart textile uniform suit code named "Starship Trooper"
>that is a multilayered intelligent skin suit that protects soldier from
>chemical
>
>and biological threats. The outfit is capable of changing color
>automatically
>to make it harder to by blinding in based on background (chameleon ability)
>as well as reduce the IR siginature of the individual. Additionally the
>suit
>serves as an antenna for high-data-rate radios and data-feeds to a Darth
>Vader like helemet which is able to project images inside visior with a 360
>degree vision as well as 3-D display of the battlefield showing location of
>friendly as well as known enemy units or disturbances. The suit can
>operate in a passive mode where it receives dta from a constillation of
>100+ Global Positioning System/Meteorological Low-Earth Orbiting
>satellites will provide more than 4000 global soundings of the terrain,
>climatic state each hour giving accurate weather forcasting. The helemt has
>a high-powered micro-processor (processing at speeds on scale of human
>brain which is 10 quadrillion <10,000 trillion> instructions per second;
>current super computers process at 1 trillion instructions per second) that
>provides numerious functions such as stereoscopic enhanced hearing
>system, curvided wide-angle visor display, helmet sensors such as rear
>viewing minicamera, process data from fabric- embedded sensors and
>transceivers (smaller than a "period" capable of transmitting info
>wirelessly
>at rates of 20 megabits/sec or greater; 13 times faster than existing T-1
>Internet connection) used for data retrieval/sending at 155 megabits/sec.
> The suit also contains minature sensors that can pick-up and amplify
>sound
>of enemy hundreds of yards distant. The helmet visor showes the soldier the
>infrared image (heads up like Digital Thermal System that provides heads-up
>display remote sensing showing spectral imaging of living/moving targets
>beyond
>reduced LOS from environmental/climatic/artificial effects) or activity
>link to
>a
>stealth UAV ("Aquila", "Outrider" - USMC, "Darkstar", "Cypher" - Army Fort
>Benning, CA hovering donut 70 knts, 8000' alt, "Pathfinder" (ERAST) -
>15mph,
>100K alt several months duration flight, "Centurion") orbiting the
>battlefield
>via
>the fiber-optic network woven into the multilayered uniiform "skin" which
>the
>individual can send on command to sweep the detected position using it's
>camera to sweep the distant treeline and quickly pin-point the enemies
>location
>and providing the coordinates with GPS of enemy so the soldier is displayed
>in
>his helmet the targets he then dispatches from firing his 15mm smart
>munitions
>using micro-electronic/sensors that hit at 100% (remember the movie
>"Runaway" with Tom Seleck).
> Suddenly the soldier is alerted by suit alarm of incoming artillery that
>enables
>him to duck into cover reacting faster than a normal man because of his
>chip
>patch
>(controls transdermal neutrient/drug delivery system that injects minuate
>amounts
>of performance inducing or stress reducing nutrients/drugs as needed) but
>not
>fully
>escaping fragment hits that the suit instantly senses from embeded sensors
>that
>the
>contanied soldier damage after being analyzed and assessed, alerts nearby
>medics
>
>of his state and situation/position. The wounds are sealed off by the suit
>and
>via
>the chip patch the soldier is put into a reduced state. In-coming enemy
>that are
>
>detected, are warned to the soldier as is his best escape route or position
>for
>ambusing are displayed to him but alas our soldier is down and out. Upon
>being
>found and the suit is removed by the enemy, it useless since the voice
>recognition
>and personnel signature of the wearer renders it inactive when the wearer
>is not
>
>contained; the soldiers weapon likewise will not operate since signature is
>not
>the
>weilder. At that moment the troops arrive capturing the enemy and rescuing
>their
>
>downed commrade again since the suit had sent out his position and
>deactivation
>code.
>--kev rolfs
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:12:03 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: nuclear shotgun (was Re: Mines)
Let's think about this... (a little thinking happens)
Since lots of radiation per volume is equal to lots of force per area
(divide numerator and denominator by distance), having a high density of
x-rays will effectively put the projectiles at *extreme* pressures, at which
point their state will certainly change. For 1 MT, 4.5e15 J in say 0.1 m^3
is like a pressure of 4.5e16 N/m^2. This is way past the range at which my
intuition is valid. What happens to materials at this pressure? At what sort
of energy density do materials become plasma? I thought that someone quoted
a figure in a post a few weeks ago (in the discussion of laser effects)
which had some estimate of this.
Have experiments actually been done in space which demonstrate the ability
to pull this off? Do you have a reference?
The obvious question to ask is this: if this technique works so well, should
all missile warheads be designed this way in Traveller?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Leonard Erickson
To:
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: nuclear shotgun (was Re: Mines)
> In mail you write:
>
> > Does this make sense? You are converting the x-rays into kinetic energy.
Why
> > bother? You are probably losing orders of magnitude of energy in the
> > conversion.
>
> Nope. In fact, you can get something like 50% conversion If I recall
> the original article.
>
> > Isn't it better to focus the resulting x-ray laser blast on the
> > target?
>
> It's *not* an X-ray laser blast. Just x-rays going *mostly* in the
> direction you want. Think of it as a really bright flash from an x-ray
> flashbulb.
>
> nuke pumped x-ray lasers use a *tiny* fraction of the x-ray output of a
> bomb to "pump" rods of material that destructively "lase". You only get
> a fraction of a percent of the bomb energy in the laser pulse.
>
> > Can someone give me some back-of-the-envelope calculations which
> > justify this as a useful weapon? Can you even do this, or will the
fireball
> > vaporize all of your pellets?
>
> There *isn't* a fireball when you are in a vacuum. 99% of the bomb's
> energy comes out as x-rays. In air, they get absorbed within meters,
> superheating the air, and creating the fireball.
>
> In vacuum, they radiate out and the remaing 1% vaporizes the bomb
> rather more sedately.
>
> The "styrofoam" layer vaporises faster and more predicatably, allowing
> you to "couple" it to the "BBs" more easily. And the temps won't be
> high enough to hurt graphite coated steel (demonstrated in some early
> tests).
>
> 1 megaton = 4.2e15 J.
>
> Let's asume I can transfer merely 10% of this to the BBs. That's
> 4.2e14 J. So, if I had a million BBs, they'd each have a kinetic energy
> of 420 MJ. Just *one* of those hitting a ship is going to be noticed.
> If each weighs merely a gram, it's moving at about 916 km/sec.
>
> But a million BBs is an awful lot. And 916 km/sec is kinda slow.
>
> Let's go for *10,000* (a 100x100 array). That's 42 GJ each!
>
> mass velocity time to total mass
> cross 60 Mm of projectiles
> ---- ----------- ----------- ---------------
> 1kg 290 km/sec 207 sec 10 tons
> 100 g 917 km/sec 65 sec 1 ton
> 10 g 2.90 Mm/sec 21 sec 100 kg
> 1 g 9.17 Mm/sec 7 sec 10 kg
>
> Obviously, the weapon itself is going to have to mass more than the
> projectiles. But even a 20 ton *mass* won't take up more than a few
> cubic meters. So even the 1 kg projectile version will easily fit in 1
> dT (13.5 or 14 cubic meters).
>
> Since this is a moderately wide spread of projectiles, the spread will
> (likely) be aimed so that it's a virtual certainty to hit a small ship
> at 30 Mm and thus about a 1 in 4 chance at 60 Mm.
>
> So the likely projectile sizes will be 100 gram or less, simply to
> decrease the manuevering time for the target and thus decrease the
> chance that it can get outside the target cone. Also, lighter
> projectiles are easier to boost than heavier ones.
>
> If we use the "several mines fire from different directions" bit, a
> ship has pretty much had it.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1811
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, January 25 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1812
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Interdiction Mines
Re: Quakka's
The depth of depravity - Democracy!
Re: Psionics
Re MT Damage
Beanstalks (was: Re: Every thing In Threes)
Re: Big computers
Re: Mines
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Tekumel in Traveller
Re: Tekumel in Traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1807
Re: Tekumel in Traveller
Re: Mines
Re: nuclear shotgun (was Re: Mines)
Re: mines
Re: Mines
Re: Mines
Re:Big Computers
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:16:46 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
From: Leonard Erickson
> And these "wannabees" make things *really* difficult for the (much,
> *much* smaller) group of people who actually *are* interested in the
> religion as a religion, and not as a "fad".
People are weird. Fortunately, while such arrogant people do exist,
they are relatively rare. Then there are those who insist on calling all
Indian religious leaders and elders "shamans".
The little things that people come up with are actually funny though. I've
got a number of stories, but I'm afraid that they're all hopelessly off
topic.
> It's gotten to the point where most tribes won't even talk to would-be
> converts.
It is possible, unless the tribe in question has been *really* screwed over
by wannabes... or twinkis as some call them. :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:26:54 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re: Interdiction Mines
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
>
>>Announcing the Interdiction Mine System from Dalinaag, LIC. This system is
>>comprised of a 20Td launcher system, and it's components. To use, put the
>>launcher system in equitorial orbit, at 10 diameters or so. Engage the
>>countdown, and get away.
>>
>>What it is: A pair of VRF Gauss Guns, a model 1 computer, a 1G antigrav
>>thruster, a small PP, a dumb robot brain, and lots of ammo. Just keep
>>chucking rounds into polar orbits
>>William F. Hostman
>
> I hope you guys never plan on going back to this planet, orbit appears
>kinda unsafe from now on. This mine is going to make landing impossible and
>the det lasers are letting off niclear explosions in orbit! I don't want to
>be that protected.
> Jim : )
these are INTERDICTION mines, not "Defensive Mines". You simply impose
these bad boys on worlds you want to interdict... Like Red-Zones or Zhodani
worlds... You use them to deny access across the surface-space interface.
And, by varying height, you can set the decay time... and required density.
And, since it uses standard ammunition, for a common weapon, it also is
economical.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:43:32 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: Quakka's
>>>
IIRC, a wallaby is a small variety of kangaroo. Many are the
size of rabbits some smaller yet, perhaps as small as rats.
However; I do not recall ever hearing of a quokka. Please
let me know more.
<<<
Quokka is a small wallaby , famously found on Rotness Island in Western
Australia. They tend to be the most intelegent thing found on the island, as it
has yet to learn to dring huge ammounts of alcahol (Get Rotten on Rotto!).
Darryl
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:34:25 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: The depth of depravity - Democracy!
> The "magic" of three in human affairs is pretty simple.
>
> It's the smallest uneven number greater than one. One is unity,
> no disagreements. Two can reach impasse on a simple yes/no question.
> With Three, assuming no abstentions, at least the simple yes/no
> questions can be decided with majority rule.
>
> Walt Smith
And thus began the descent into utter barbarity and rule by the majority. Oh
how I long for honest despots, tyrants and emperors...why do you guys think
it's an EMPIRE? Democracy failed...it took Humanity some few millenia to
realise it but eventually they figured it out :)
G.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:02:17 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Psionics
Dear Folks -
Jim wrote:
>I think at higher TL's you could definitely add options to hulls,
>stopping those lousy Zho teleporting marines doing their voodoo.
TNE stated that standing near electrically-powered machinery was a good shield,
so my PC's came up with the idea of trickling a small amount of power through
the lanthanum hull grid. Voila! Instant ship-sized psi-shield!
(nasty ref's may want to say this degrades the grid after a while, therefore
costing more at yearly inspection time, ha ha.)
Also helps me stuff up those pesky Droyne PC's. What's good for the goose, etc
etc...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:09:45 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re MT Damage
>William Hostman said:
>>Actually, there was Official Errata in the Referee's Gaming Kit: Vehicles'
>>(including spacecraft) Damage Capacities are supposed to be multiplied by
>>10.
>
>Er, I use that errata as well. Sorry.
>
>It means that the _best_ tank weapon does 30 dice, while the _least_ ship
>weapon
>does 50 dice, while a P-gun turret does 200 dice (albiet only in orbit
>;-). That
>means a _civilian_ ship is still going to be able to scrap a tank in one
>or two
>shots, without even having to have rules for "mega-damage" weapons...
>
Not dice, David, POINTS OF DAMAGE. The only place in MT where damage is in
dice is when converting DP to Attribute losses.
Considering that a trepida is (Without the Erratta) 12/29 for it's hull,
and is a 13Td craft. Armor 40G. So that means it can take 120 points before
being knocked out (unless the damage tables from refs get you a suspension
or PP hit, in which case 10 will do).
Lessee, Step one:
Pe/Avt: 2+ 1-1.999 0-0.999
Dmg Mult x1 x0.5 x0.1
Label HiPen LoPen NoPen
Pe is Effective Penetration
Avt is Armor Value of Target
Step 2: Figure Ms (Margin of Success: Roll-Required to hit)
MS: 0 1 2-3 4-7 8+
DmgMult: x0.5 x1 x2 x4 x8
The Official Pen 83, Attn 5, Dmg 800 will do 400-6400 points of damage to
an unarmored spacecraft or a Trepida, choosing from one of the following
400, 800, 1600, 3200, or 6400 points. It will not KO a large ship unless it
gets a PP hit.
However, this is a near 13 cubic meter, 250 MW, 5 metric ton weapon. The
LARGEST RP gun from the standard lists is 0.11 cubic meters (The RPC-14);
Thus the Turreted Ships' Plasma Gun is roughly 110 times the size. and
doing only 40x the damage, and having 5 times the penetration in cm of
steel. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Oh, and that 20damage RPC-14 can do between 1 and 160 points of damage...
it won't kill a trepida reliably. Possible damages are, in points: 1, 2, 4,
5, 8, 10, 16, 20, 40, 80, 160. Against the trepida, with it's av 40, it
will be 5, 10, 20, 40, or 80 points. Takes 2 shots to kill a trepida by
hull hits; takes one to Locomotion or PP to knock it out of the sky. It can
knock out a Scout, if you hit the PP well enough. Heck, 70 points vs AV 40
on a Loco or PP hit will STILL KO a Subbie (Type R)
If I understand what You (David) are doing, you're applying these as DICE
of damge, which is, on average, multiplying everything by 3.5, and you're
dividing damages by 10 for ship's weapons... so they are doing 1/3rd as
much damage as they should....
Oh, one other thought: Since long ranges not only penalize to-hit chances,
but also reduce penetration, you get a double whammy....
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:14:29 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Beanstalks (was: Re: Every thing In Threes)
Dear Folks -
Glenn asked:
>How do beanstalks fit in with Traveller tech? Are they common?
I've been a player in the "Tower Trouble" scenario, which the DM plonked down at
Regina...
No, there are no canon references to them, mainly because they are not needed
(ie. not economical) if you have antigravity. The world would have to have the
beanstalk as some sort of hangover (pardon the pun) from a time when it didn't
have access to a-g or thruster tech.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:40:47 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair"
Subject: Re: Big computers
On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:57:48 +1000, david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
wrote:
>From memory, either Loren or DGP's Joe Fugate was asked this very question.
>They responded with a mini-essay, explaining what you need to do to build
a >robotic pilot. They concluded with the line, "But would YOU trust your life
>to the first jump-vector they come up with?"
As opposed to trusting my life to the realspace vector the autopilot comes
up with? Or, heck, to my vacc suit? If you want to talk about complicated
systems that can fail in any number of ways... For that matter, do you get
on elevators, knowing that there's a possibility that, despite all of the
safety measures present, you could wind up falling to your death?
Remember, we're talking about a society that has been using computers as
long as we have been working bronze. If they aren't comfortable with them
by now, they never will be. (And for those of you who play with Virus,
imagine what a horrible and inexplicable betrayal it must have seemed like
for those doomed crews.)
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "Mr. Barris, I was. Not aware that. Two members of
kellys@efn.org Team, Rocket... constitutesaswarm."
-- Captain James Kirk, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:43:59 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Mines
>Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:55:08 -0400
>From: Michel Vaillancourt
...
> So treat a det-laser as a USP C spinal PAWS under HG for hit
>probabilities and damage... 12 hits per attack, even without criticals,
?? Under HG2 that's _4_ damage rolls, and only against unarmoured targets.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:46:53 -0900
From: Richard Martin
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
> > Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > > I seem to recall a discussion somewhere where it was pointed out that
> > > birds (at least the ones that can actually *fly*) have been subjected
> > > to *extreme* evolutionary pressures to make tissues smaller/lighter
> > > so they can fly better. And when you stop and think about it, their
> > > brains *have* to be a lot more efficient than ours.
> >
Effecient in what ways? Do you realize how expensive our large brains
are in both evolutionary and energy terms? I have read a book that
discussed the role of nutrition on evolution. From what I remember brain
tissue composed mostly of omega 3 fatty acids instead of the normal
omega 6 in other cell types. Most herbivoes are able to produce their
own omega 3 while carnivores get theirs from, guess what, herbivores.
This capture of omega 3 and concentrated nutrition packages, as well as
other physical features, allows for the genes to code for things like
larger brains, steroscopic eyesight, smaller gut, more emphasis on fine
muscle control for brains designed for predation. It seems one of the
central theories of the book was that there is only so much genetic
material, much like capacity on a hard drive. If it is full of one type
of programs and data, then others are absent.
The reason why most herbivores are realtively uninspiring in the
intelligence department is because the vast majority of their brains are
controlling the large digestion machinary necessary to extract nutrients
from low quality plant foods. Even then they are only typically about
10% efficient. Again Natures way of being effecient.
Homo sapiens pay a large price for their brains. First is the question
of maturity at birth. In order for women to give live birth the human
infant is basically born 3 months premature in order to get the large
braincase through the rather small opening forced on humans because of
their bipedality. Next is the energy consumption this relatively large
brain places on the body as well as effeiceint means to keep it cool. To
wrap it all up just what are some of the advantages?
First and foremost has to be the use of complex symbols and symbolic
language that can pass information from generation to generation,
commonly called culture. Second is the long period of childhood which
allow the individual to absorb the handed down information. Another is
the ability to use a tool to make a tool. If anyone has ever tried
knapping stone to make points they know the amount of visual imagination
and planning necessary to make the stone tool. They have to literraly
see the finished product in the rough and plan each move accordingly.
- --
Richard Martin
I think, therefor I am, therefor I must be... Still here
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:49:02 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell"
Subject: Tekumel in Traveller
> > The PCs have made a *bad* misjump. Describe the planet they are
> > orbiting. See if any of them recognize the continental outlines on
> > Tekumel. :-)
> >
Speaking of Tekumel and the former star faring species stranded there, has
anyone tried using such races in a Traveller game? Any comments on how they
would fit in in either the 3I or a heretical universe?
Also has anyone done a planetary map of Tekumel in a format suitable for
Traveller?
Antony Farrell
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 02:10:23 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy"
Subject: Re: Tekumel in Traveller
>> > The PCs have made a *bad* misjump. Describe the planet they are
>> > orbiting. See if any of them recognize the continental outlines on
>> > Tekumel. :-)
>> >
>Speaking of Tekumel and the former star faring species stranded there, has
>anyone tried using such races in a Traveller game? Any comments on how they
>would fit in in either the 3I or a heretical universe?
Well, based on what little is known of the ancient history before Tekumel
fell out of the Universe, I don't think they two really mesh. Remeber in
EPT, the Pe Choi provided mankind with FTL drive "the three light drive",
IIRC. OTOH, the races might be adapted into decent enough aliens for
Traveller.
>Also has anyone done a planetary map of Tekumel in a format suitable for
>Traveller?
As Traveller maps tend to cover the entire planet that might be a little
difficult :^) Off the top of my head under a quarter of the surface has
been maped.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 02:45:44 PST
From: "Micah Borer"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1807
Thanks everyone for all the advice and pointers.
Brian, I gotta tell ya this is the first game I have actually been able to
sit down run so I'm feeling kinda overwhealmed and all. If I could come up
with specific questions at this point believe me they would be there.
At the moment I have a Scientist, a Merchant, a Marine, and a Rogue so I'm
kinda leaning toward a merchant game. To start I'm saying "the hell with
it" and making up as much as I can But I got a bunch of White wolf and
DND'er type gamers so they arn't really cutting me any slack.
anyone know an easy way to keep track of details without a computer? All I
have is the schools and they frown on keeping things like this on them.
Thanks all
Micah
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 02:42:08 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Tekumel in Traveller
This may be a great discovery! The Tekumel setting has something for every
Traveller player. For the gearheads, you have the extremely advanced
technology to figure out and to reverse-engineer using FF&S. For the
not-so-gearheaded, there are well-developed languages, cultures, etc. You
have more alien species than you can shake a stick at. You have plots in
which the very existence of the universe as we know it is at stake. Is
anything missing?
It's too bad that the offer SJ Games game Barker for GURPS Tekumel was too
far off. My understanding is that Barker was offended by the agressive terms
and decided that he could not work with SJ Games, so we will never see GURPS
Tekumel in print.
I seem to recall that Barker gave the planets of origin for many of the
non-human species, including the Ahoggya, Shen, Hlaka, etc. I think that in
Traveller terms they would be somewhere in the Solomani rim. But since I
have never ventured outside the Spinward Marches, I haven't worried about
it.
> Speaking of Tekumel and the former star faring species stranded there, has
> anyone tried using such races in a Traveller game? Any comments on how
they
> would fit in in either the 3I or a heretical universe?
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:39:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mines
In mail you write:
> At 06:15 PM 1/24/00 PST, you wrote:
> [snip]
>>> So treat a det-laser as a USP C spinal PAWS under HG for hit
>>> probabilities and damage... 12 hits per attack, even without criticals,
>>> will break *something*... and that energy level or higher isn't
>>> un-reasonable given the way the weapon is pumped...
>>
>>Then it's going to have to be *huge*. Too huge to stealth easily.
>>
>>>>On the other hand, "distructively sweeping" :-) with a merchant out of
>>>>book 2 would probably just add another wreck to the orbital clutter.
>>
>>> I'm not sure there would be that much left.... ;-)
>>
>>It takes a *huge* amounts of energy to vaporize a ship. Thousands, if
>>not millions of times more than it takes to destroy it as a useful
>>object.
>>
>>There *will* be lots of debris. Especially from anything that can get a
>>one-shot kill.
>>--
>>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>
> Hi, Leonard! Another interesting post, thank-you.
> Question for you or anyone else who dabbles in these things to some
> fashion. Det-Lasers; if you pump the wretch with a one mega-ton device,
> how *inefficient* is the damn thing that you don't get a USP C PAWS
> effectiveness out of it? I mean, you can put a 1Mt weapon in an ICBM at TL
> 8....
Oh, you probably pump the det lasers with a "few kiloton" device, set
up for enchanced radiation emission. And have several rods around it,
all aimed at the target (to improve the chances of hitting). But check
out how many MJ a shot from various weapons deliver. Then check the
energy that's released by a small nuke.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:44:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: nuclear shotgun (was Re: Mines)
In mail you write:
> Let's think about this... (a little thinking happens)
>
> Since lots of radiation per volume is equal to lots of force per area
> (divide numerator and denominator by distance), having a high density of
> x-rays will effectively put the projectiles at *extreme* pressures, at which
> point their state will certainly change. For 1 MT, 4.5e15 J in say 0.1 m^3
> is like a pressure of 4.5e16 N/m^2. This is way past the range at which my
> intuition is valid. What happens to materials at this pressure? At what sort
> of energy density do materials become plasma? I thought that someone quoted
> a figure in a post a few weeks ago (in the discussion of laser effects)
> which had some estimate of this.
Designers of nuclear weapons deal with this sort of thing all the time.
Alas, they don't tell us "uncleared" types much.
> Have experiments actually been done in space which demonstrate the ability
> to pull this off? Do you have a reference?
Not that I recall. You might try digging thru rec.arts.sf.science
several years back.
> The obvious question to ask is this: if this technique works so well, should
> all missile warheads be designed this way in Traveller?
It's not *that* great. We went thru it some time ago. As a *missile*
warhead, you can generally nail it with a laser before it gets close
enough to have assured hits.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 05:18:07 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: mines
Actually the point I made was that made is that manuver is for maintain
positioning and changing location. As for hiding in space, since you
are using sensors not eyesight there are a lot of ways to mines, EMM,
stealth materials, spacesuits, space junk, and I'm certain someone with
a more technical background could come up with other ideas. And a mine
does neccessary need to hit the ship to do damage, particulary if its
mates also detonate.
By the way I like the idea of using casters to lay mines. I think the
same sandcaster idea could be used as a minesweeping variant.
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > Yes, and I adjust for that. But mines always have been the cheap way to
> > wage war for backward nations. The most expensive part is building
> > dedicated vessels for laying and removing mines. Space mines are just
> > cheap satellites with one dedicated purpose-detonation. The main extra
> > cost for space mines is a powerplant and drive enough to maintain an
> > orbit or manuver to a new position. Mines also would require just enough
> > brains to be remoted controlled for detonation or manuver.
>
> Unless the detonation powers a det-laser, your mine has to be within
> *meters* of the hull to do any damage. In space, that's a bad joke.
>
> Also, since it has a maneuver drive, it's a missile. It just needs to
> be a *fast* missile that can lurk well. Pity that hiding is so
> difficult in space.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 05:30:43 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Mines
Nice idea. Some the ideas I've used to space mines are: Gravitic
mines-which detonate when effected by a ships' gravity well; Seeker
mines which utilizes a 'Identify friend or foe' method, detonating if an
IFF signal isn't given (imagine a inexperienced SDB chasing a corsair
through a minefield that didn't effect the corsair and suddenly getting
nailed); Drive mines, which react to certain types of drives; Repulsor
mines, which react to repulsors( one the more effective ways to
minesweep is using repulsors) and detonate, mostly useful if surrounding
mines also detonate. The spacesuit mine (expensive), a nasty variant
using a hard vacc suit with EMM and other goodies to deceive a trader
and broadcasting a distress signal and designed to detonate close to a
ship or be remotely detonated.
darkhstarr.
Luther Martin wrote:
>
> I think that I recall from Brilliant Lances that advanced TL missiles
> detonate 2 hexes away from their target, or about 60,000 km. So a spacing of
> one mine every 30,000 km will probably give you good coverage. Whether you
> can actually do this will probably depend on the tactical situation. You can
> probably get it if you are trying to stop a pursuit by the bad guys.
>
> If your mines are smart, so that they will only target certain classes of
> ships, or target only certain ship systems, they can wait until they are
> fairly close. This may be the area in which mines really pay off: causing
> selective damage. At normal engagement ranges, you are lucky to hit a
> ship-sized target, so your chance of causing any selective damage is
> probably small. If you are very close, on the other hand, you can probably
> do it.
>
> (Digression caused by discussion of hit probabilities.) In general, other
> factors remaining the same, large ships are at a definate disadvantage in
> space combat by virtue of being larger targets. If you assume that only
> random acceleration during the light-speed lag between target sensing and
> your laser pulse hitting the target will save the target from being hit,
> smaller is definately better. A comparison of the probability to hit a large
> ship, say with an effective radius of 20 m, to the probability to hit a
> small fighter, say with an effective radius of 1.5 m is very interesting.
> The weapon system on the fighter is many times more effective than the
> system on the larger ship. This, of course, is why fighters exist. The
> optimal strategy for fighting a space battle is to engage the enemy at the
> longest possible range with the smallest ships capable of damaging him.
>
> >
> > Space is *big*. You'll want some sprint, that det-laser's effective
> > range isn't going to be line-of-sight. If it were, you'd simply
> > det your missile warheads the moment they were far enough from your
> > ship to save you from the blast, and that isn't what happens.
> >
> > Hundreds of mines over how many thousands of cubic kilometers?
> >
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:53:49 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Mines
At 11:43 PM 1/24/00 -0800, you wrote:
>>Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:55:08 -0400
>>From: Michel Vaillancourt
>...
>> So treat a det-laser as a USP C spinal PAWS under HG for hit
>>probabilities and damage... 12 hits per attack, even without criticals,
>
> ?? Under HG2 that's _4_ damage rolls, and only against unarmoured targets.
>
Sorry, Steve.. I must have misread that section... I'll go back
and look at it again, but I though they got a hit per USP, not per USP above
nine... Hmmm. Not nearly as fearsome that way.
--Michel
(who can count the number of times in his games a spinal mount has
been used on two hands)
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:16:25 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: Re:Big Computers
While I think you are correct in your reasoning, I would like to point
out that tiny computers were present in *science fiction* at the time
Traveller was first being written. Why were jump drive, fusion power
and other speculative technologies included in the game, while tiny
computes were not? Sure, it's probably because the authors didn't think
of it, but we can still have fun with it.
Making tiny computers somewhat fragile also helps to get rid of the
"why not just crew my starship with a bunch of robots" problem
somewhat.
Walt Smith
I had actually been thinking that alot of the mass of the computer might be
related to shielding materials to insure the protection of such a vital
component in the ship from the harmful effects of jumpspace (& realspace)
travel. Also consider the possiblity of redundancy systems as well as the
pile of microprocessors for all of the other onboard systems. IMTU, If the
computer is removed or totally destroyed, the vessel goes NOWHERE.
Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:24:40 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
"Chris Seamans" puts forth into the Ether (perhaps hitting
an Alien):
>From: Mark Urbin
>> No, no, no...It will be the NEA calling for military intervention so they
>> don't have to rewrite any course material
>Okay. I *know* I'm going to regret this... but... huh?
>Or as a famous man - small in stature, but larger than life in thought and
>action - once said: "Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?" :)
The NEA is a extremely vocal left-wing lobby that is very much in favor of
strict student testing, but is dead set against teacher testing.
Take it with a large grain of salt. It's only slightly less of a
handwaving generality than sweeping generalization it was in response to
and definitely more tongue in cheek.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ Opinions Mine!
"The Clintonites, like pod people from a "Star Trek" adventure, have peeled
off the thin layer of centrist rhetoric that they wore for the presidential
campaign. We now learn that they are people genetically bred to inhabit the
public sector. Their oxygen source is the moisture of taxes, which are
remitted
by the aliens in the private sector." -- Wall Street Journal February 19, 1993
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1812
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, January 25 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1813
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Conspiracy campaign idea (was: Traveller without psionics)
Re: Official Out-Of-Print Traveller Needs/Resources Thread
Re:Mines in Space
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1807
re: Mines
re: Psionics
Norse religion (Was: Traveller varients of Christianity)
Re: Interdiction Mines
The depth of depravity - Democracy!
Tekumel "Three Light Drive"
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Advice for Micah
Official "How to keep track of details" Thread 2000
Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
Re: Norse religion (Was: Traveller varients of Christianity)
Re: Nuclear Shotgun
Trav-Tech List
Winged Spirits
Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
Re: Every thing In Threes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:35:26 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Conspiracy campaign idea (was: Traveller without psionics)
Antony Farrell wrote:
> This sounds a look like M A R Barkers description of a possible
> reason why Tekumel, and a host of other star systems fell into there
> own pocket dimensions. A side effect of what he called the
> three-light drive. Or was that Grandfather using a jump drive to
> create his own pocket dimensions?
Wouldn't that mean that the *really* important systems (with lots of
interstellar movement going on) would fall out first?
Where exactly did the Droyne homeworld go anyway? :-)
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:44:23 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Official Out-Of-Print Traveller Needs/Resources Thread
Robert James Eaglestone wrote:
> So we have at least one new Traveller GM who's looking
> for some stuff. Well, I have OCR'd text from most of
> the Classic Traveller adventures now on my website:
>
> members.home.net/eaglestone/Resources/index.html
>
> I'm only leaving this stuff up a short time, since it
> takes up space and I'll have to remove it eventually
> when Marc officially begins to reprint them. If there's
> a need and it's permissable to keep them up here,
> maybe Downport would like them? (heh)
LOOT ! LOOT ! LOOT !
Wonderful opportunity. Thanks a lot!
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:42:50 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: Re:Mines in Space
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:49:03 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Interdiction Mines
On the thread of mines in Traveller...
Announcing the Interdiction Mine System from Dalinaag, LIC. This system is
comprised of a 20Td launcher system, and it's components.
To use, put the
launcher system in equitorial orbit, at 10 diameters or so. Engage the
countdown, and get away.
What it is: A pair of VRF Gauss Guns, a model 1 computer, a 1G antigrav...
You will need the M-Drive to counter the spin from the VRF Gauss Guns.
William F. Hostman
As a person that normally plays merchant free traders, this concept scares
the crap out of me. One sloppy sensor scan, and goodbye...
Wait a minute! I'm the referee!
Ooooooo...
Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:39:55 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1807
From: Micah Borer
> anyone know an easy way to keep track of details without a
> computer? All I have is the schools and they frown on keeping
>things like this on them.
Invest in a nice, fat binder and get yourself organized. :)
This is the way I've been keeping track of details for close to 18 years
now. I *do* usually compose text which the players are supposed to read on
the computer, and stuff like that. For the most part, however, the vast
majority of my roleplaying preparation gets done far away from the computer.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:38:02 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Mines
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>Actually, the problem is getting orbital distribution such that there
>*aren't* "gaps" at random times.
Just for fun, another problem:
If the mines are defensive, rather than blockade, they have to be in orbits
that provide effective coverage, while still allowing merchant traffic and
local traffic safe access to the world in question. If this world has the
tech and infrastructure to maintain an effective minefield, it should also
have a major chunk of it's economy involved in taking things on and off
planet.
This may require maneuver drives in the mines, to keep them in safe
holding orbits until they need to be moved into defense orbits to
"close the gates". Even so, you'll want some gaps left for you to use...
probably involving some rather complex, one-use flight plans.
"Fast Trader _Gargoyle_, congrats on making it through the blockade.
Prepare to recieve the 38 course changes to make it through the
minefield, they will only work if you take course 38 mark 7 at 2.3G's
*now*..."
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:53:07 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Psionics
Jim Lawrie wrote:
>At TL12 psionic shielding is an option for armour according to the MT
>IE, it only cost 4000cr and does not seem to appreciably weigh anything.
>It blocks against psionic mind reading and life sensing. (And everyone said
>the Imperials don't do psionic research!)
> I think at higher TL's you could definitely add options to hulls,
>stopping those lousy Zho teleporting marines doing their voodoo.
It isn't clear that CT TL12 psionic shielding protects against either
clairvoyance or teleportation. It would be nice if it did, but I think it doesn't.
In CT Adv. 8, _Broadsword_, Imperial standard operating procedures are
described for starships operating in areas where Zhodani Commandoes
are expected. These SOP's seem to indicate that keeping the teleporters
out isn't as easy as a field built into the hull, or at least that such fields
aren't easy to get over normal Imperial tech levels.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:11:50 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Norse religion (Was: Traveller varients of Christianity)
This post is heavily OT, but I couldn't help myself. If you want to
reply to this, do so to me only, not to the list (unless you can find an
ObTrav somewhere).
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> And please note that at least one pagan, but non-Wiccan religion
> appears to be making a comeback. Asatru(sp?). Basicly the Norse gods,
> primarily Thor (even in the old days Odin was more the sort that you
> held rituals for in the hope he'd leave you alone!).
Asatro (at least in Swedish), and it is not "basically" the Norse gods.
It *is* the Norse gods. The words "Norse religion" translate as "Asatro"
in Swedish.
The word "Asatro" is composed of two parts. "Tro" means faith or belief,
while "Asa" is a reference to the Norse major gods ("Asarna"). So
"Asatro" is a belief in the Norse major gods.
Oden (Swedish spelling) was a god of wisdom, but he (like all the other
gods) represented the price of wisdom as well. Oden himself had to
sacrifice one of his eyes to gain all the knowledge in the world.
As for praying "leave me alone," I think you have confused Tor (Swedish
spelling) and Oden. Tor was the god of thunder, and if you had angered
him in some way, you could get hit by lightning. You might also get hit
by stray lightning bolts when Tor battled giants in the skies. His
hammer Mjölner (Mjolnir in English) caused large sparks to fly, hence
the lightning.
However, since Oden wasn't really a nice fellow, you might want to keep
him away as well. But *never* refuse an old, oneeyed man shelter for the
night...
As a side note, many of the names of the Norse gods (and other period
names) remain in our culture today. They are quite common. I have yet to
meet a person called Oden (that would have been considered Hybris at the
time), but several other names are common (partial listing):
Björn (exactly the same word as our word for "bear")
Tor (god of thunder)
Ċsa (actually a girl's name, refers to the gods)
Hulda (girl's name, referrence to Brynhilde, a famous female warrior)
Sten ("stone")
Of these names, only Hulda and Tor are somewhat uncommon. The rest of
the names are very common, perhaps the frequency of "John" in English.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
(who has a name based on the Nailed God "Jesus" instead of a Norse god)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:08:58 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: Interdiction Mines
Oh yeah, never plan on lifting off from this planet again.
Or receiving reinforcements.
Foodstuffs dropped in containers might work but be sure to Xray it for
harmful metal objects.
- -----Original Message-----
From: William F. Hostman
To: traveller@mpgn.com
Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 9:54 PM
Subject: Interdiction Mines
>On the thread of mines in Traveller...
>
>Announcing the Interdiction Mine System from Dalinaag, LIC. This system is
>comprised of a 20Td launcher system, and it's components. To use, put the
>launcher system in equitorial orbit, at 10 diameters or so. Engage the
>countdown, and get away.
>
>What it is: A pair of VRF Gauss Guns, a model 1 computer, a 1G antigrav
>thruster, a small PP, a dumb robot brain, and lots of ammo. Just keep
>chucking rounds into polar orbits... Counter-rotating orbits, BTW, and when
>it runs out of ammo, it pulls up. You now have a hail of particles in polar
>orbits, at really nice velocities at near-right-angles to any landing
>vessel's probable flight plan, plus half of them matched and half opposed
>to polar orbits. WHen you figure the orbital velocity, then plug the
>numbers through 3G3, you come up with some NICE figures.... enough to
>really hurt even large ships.
>
>Dumping 10Td of 4x40mm gauss slugs gives QUITE a spread, and you can drop
>multiple units for multiple saturation....
>
>Lessee: assuming 10diams on a 1600km diam... 16Mm radius. SA of a sphere =
>what?
>IIRC 4/3 Pi*r^2... 1.07E15 square meters, and we'll need about 1 per 100
>sqare meters to assure a hit. so we need about 1.1E13 (11,000,000,000,000)
>projectiles. Hmm... I think it needs to be 100Td, or so. Or you'll need
>about 20 of these. Still, not too expensive. Especially if you use Fuel
>Cells for power, rather than fusion. Don't need much, either.
>
>You will need the M-Drive to counter the spin from the VRF Gauss Guns.
>
>William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
>interface!"
>Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
>533
>Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
>ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
>IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
>pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:01:46 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: The depth of depravity - Democracy!
Guiseppe wrote:
>And thus began the descent into utter barbarity and rule by the majority.
>Oh how I long for honest despots, tyrants and emperors...why do you guys
>think it's an EMPIRE? Democracy failed...it took Humanity some few
>millenia to realise it but eventually they figured it out :)
"When are people going to realize that Democracy doesn't WORK!"
- Homer Simpson, _The Simpsons_
"One man, one vote. The Patrician is the man, he has the vote."
- from Terry Pratchett's wonderful Diskworld books
Being ruled by an enlightened, noble despot has it's good points, especially
if he agrees with you on most issues (or , better yet, if you get to be him).
The downside is that the enlightened, noble despot's heir and chosen
successor may be a spoiled monster who thinks your head would make
a good soccer ball.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:05:46 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Tekumel "Three Light Drive"
"Three Light Drive".... "Three Light Drive"...
I like the sound of that. I bet that's how the Droyne
glyphs for "jumpdrive" read.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 06:25:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
In mail you write:
> From: Mark Urbin
>
>
>> No, no, no...It will be the NEA calling for military intervention so they
>> don't have to rewrite any course material
>
> Okay. I *know* I'm going to regret this... but... huh?
NEA = the national *teachers* union.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:09:00 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
Richard Martin wrote:
>Homo sapiens pay a large price for their brains. First is the question
>of maturity at birth. In order for women to give live birth the human
>infant is basically born 3 months premature in order to get the large
>braincase through the rather small opening forced on humans because of
>their bipedality.
Now that makes me think. What if a post-human race decided to get
around this limit by not being bipedal any more?
I know, hands are too useful to get rid of. But redesign the human from
the lower chest down to be a centauroid...
Yeah, I know, it's probably easier just to redesign the woman's pelvis
to change at end-stage pregnancy from "efficient for walking" to
"pops open for baby delivery". Or just make your civilization dependent
on non-natural childbirth, or even non-natural wombs. But I happen to
like centaurs when they pop up in science fiction. :-)
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:33:23 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: Advice for Micah
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 02:45:44 PST
From: "Micah Borer"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1807
Thanks everyone for all the advice and pointers.
Brian, I gotta tell ya this is the first game I have actually been able to
sit down run so I'm feeling kinda overwhealmed and all. If I could come up
with specific questions at this point believe me they would be there.
At the moment I have a Scientist, a Merchant, a Marine, and a Rogue so I'm
kinda leaning toward a merchant game. To start I'm saying "the hell with
it" and making up as much as I can But I got a bunch of White wolf and
DND'er type gamers so they arn't really cutting me any slack.
anyone know an easy way to keep track of details without a computer? All I
have is the schools and they frown on keeping things like this on them.
Thanks all
Micah
Micah,
I have found the easiest way to keep track of alot of the merchant campaign
details is a pair of simple 3 ring binder notebooks.
Make sections for the players to keep records of cargo purchased, the
present cash accounting, the ship's locker gear, etc. (Keep a copy of these
documents as well for your records when planning the next adventure.)
Have another notebook with the ref's maps and notes. Make a data sheet for
the players to have "basic" information about whatever area is needed. If
they want a more specific map, sell it to them and charge them a hefty fee
for it. If they are truly careful merchants, the petty cash will begin to
feel the pinch.
Use information as a reward as well as profit. Make the team work a little
for the data they need, don't just hand it over. Make them bribe a street
kid for directions. (Not everyone is a boy scout.) It makes them appreciate
it more. Add a little information details for background flavor. Don't
forget the Imperium's local version of CNN.
See the link below for an idea on general campaign background information:
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/pbem_ce.htm
There is (usually) enough to give some clues and red herrings at the same
time without you having to become a full time GM.
I also happen to have a wonderful artist in my group of players, and he has
helped to bring my game to life. Use the talents of your players to help
you. Another of my players is working on a few sketches for me of a future
encounter. He has no idea it could be used against him at a later time...
Any time the players add to your Traveller universe, they will (normally)
buy into the genre more. Try to build on these actions, and make notes about
how that would affect the future of that area.
Example: Did the merchant vessel sell a cargo hold full of "Pepsli Cokla" to
a minor race who are allergic to caffine and easily addicted to sugar? What
happens next time when they return to the planet?
Hope all this helps and good luck!
Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:30:43 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Official "How to keep track of details" Thread 2000
Hi Micah,
When we were new Traveller players, we didn't cut the ref
any slack either. But as we learned the rules (and took
turns at refereeing) we mellowed.
My favorite way of record keeping is to do "distributed
refereeing", where each player is responsible for an aspect
of the game. Our group has followed this to some degree
at times, but if we stuck more to it the game would flow
smoothly when there's no combat.
When the PCs own a ship, the detail keeping falls out thus:
1. The captain/pilot plots the course, interacts with
starport authorities, and puts on his fancy duds when
he meets with corporate stooges to broker deals.
The captain keeps track of the group's purpose
and goals.
Give this player authority to inject random ship
encounters when entering/leaving a world or gas giant.
Copy off the ship encounter list or make one up.
Also, this player can have the responsibility of
following parts of those long checklists in MegaTraveller.
This guy also usually operates the sensors.
2. The steward keeps track of all funds(!) and the ship's
mortgage. Give this player authority to determine the
number *and type* of passengers for each run. This
means general sketches and (unknown to anyone else)
potential troublemakers. Give this player a table or
something which helps determine the number of passengers.
The steward also helps keep inventory and can purchase
sundries, including weapons, for everyone else. The
steward has to interact with starport workers. More
importantly, this player keeps track of everybody
else's possessions and cash, storing all unused items
in the ship's locker. Only the steward and captain
have keys.
The steward also keeps track of where the group has been
and what they have accmplished.
The steward in our campaigns is usually also the medic,
which also translates as Science Officer. Get the idea?
3. The engineer is responsible for maintaining the ship's
systems. This player should itemize all the ship systems
and give a probability that each will work correctly
at any given time (5 or greater on 2 dice, for instance).
This player must roll them dice when a ship system is
used (jump drive on jump; maneuver drive on liftoff;
power plant on power-up, etc) and roll up or make up
the type of problems encountered. We play in an unstable
universe, so there is always at least some piddly problem
somewhere that the engineer has to tinker with.
This player has the authority to cause a minor power
failure at critical times (like when being attacked).
This player has the authority to try to overclock the
ship systems, giving temporarily superior performance
(of course, at the cost of more potential failures!).
4. The astrogator is responsible for knowing the Imperium.
This player learns the star lanes, which worlds are
more civilized than others, etc. This player makes
notes about surrounding worlds, and maps down possible
situations two jumps ahead according to the pilot's
course.
This player provides raw material for the referee to
mold into whatever dark purpose might be in store for
the group at large, according to the worlds listed on
the star charts. There is heavy respnsibility to
interpret the fuzzy world data
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:39:34 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity
From: Mark Urbin
> The NEA is a extremely vocal left-wing lobby that is very much in
> favor of strict student testing, but is dead set against teacher
> testing.
>
> Take it with a large grain of salt. It's only slightly less of a
> handwaving generality than sweeping generalization it was in
> response to and definitely more tongue in cheek.
Well, I imagined it was tongue in cheek, which is why I responded in kind.
See, when you said NEA, I thought you meant the National Endowment for the
Arts. I was confused as to why that particular NEA would be writing course
materials in the first place... let alone feel threatened by the
introduction of aliens.
I hope you'll pardon my confusion there! :)
But, as Leonard pointed out:
>NEA = the national *teachers* union.
(Thanks Leonard!)
I guess you're talking about another organization. The National Education
Association perhaps? :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:39:08 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Norse religion (Was: Traveller varients of Christianity)
There's something that impresses me about Traveller:
its calendar is antiseptic, sterile. Look at the weekdays:
oneday, twoday, threeday, fourday...
Give me the Nordic days any old time!
(Sun Day)
(Moon Day)
Tiw's Day
Woden's Day
Thor's Day
Frigga's Day
(Saturn's Day)
Maybe we can use the Vilani day names?
What are they, by the way?
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:53:05 -0800
From: "Bruce Macintosh"
Subject: Re: Nuclear Shotgun
Shadow writes
>1 megaton = 4.2e15 J.
>Let's asume I can transfer merely 10% of this to the BBs.
If you're talking about the nuclear shotgun threads on GDW-beta,
this was the part I always found implausible; people just invoked numbers
like "let's assume we can transfer 10% of the energy to the BBs.".
Any plausible mechanism involves using the x-ray energy to heat
some intermediate material, and that material pushing on the BBs
to accelerate them. In the absence of a way to confine the the gas,
the bulk of the energy is going to remain as kinetic/thermal energy
and only a tiny fraction will couple to the BBs; as the BB cloud
expands even fractionally the gas will blow by them.
(I miss GDW-beta and its descendant, the trav-tech list. Any chance
of any nice person starting them up again? Then we gearheads could
take our discussions of nuclear weapon energy coupling somewhere
else and stop bothering the rest of you...)
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:17:22 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Trav-Tech List
At 07:53 AM 1/25/00 -0800, you wrote:
[snip]
>
>(I miss GDW-beta and its descendant, the trav-tech list. Any chance
>of any nice person starting them up again? Then we gearheads could
>take our discussions of nuclear weapon energy coupling somewhere
>else and stop bothering the rest of you...)
>
>Bruce
>
I actually find these threads interesting, but if there are enough
of you who want Trav-Tech back, I can add it to the list that I host on my
server...
--Michel
(Some people collect spoons, I collect mailing lists.... what's the
problem?)
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:18:07 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Winged Spirits
From: Jens Rydholm
> I have thought a lot about common elements in the religions of
> Humaniti, though. IMTU, a lot of human (and other) religions include
> some kind of gods/spirits/angels with wings. This is due to the
> prehistoric influence of the Ancients. Don't remember if I read this in
> a book somewhere... I probably did.
This is one of those rare moments where the TML and real life meet. Shortly
after you posted this, I was reading Mumford's piece on the "process" of
civilization. In this piece, he mentions that the first winged-human hybrid
creatures appeared when mankind became "civilized."
This naturally piqued my curiosity, so I started to take a careful look at
prehistoric art and discovered that he's right. So, I'm not sure when the
earliest winged hybrids appeared, but it certainly wasn't in prehistory...
or if they did, he haven't found them yet, and we have found quite a bit.
So, since I see you have an interest in the subject, here are my own
thoughts:
The closest I've found to a droyne in prehistoric artwork appears in one of
the Lascaux cave paintings. In this painting, a humanoid figure with a
birdlike head who has been attacked by a bison. The humanoid figure is crude
enough that it might be seen as a wingless ancient.
There are various theories about this painting advanced by real world
scholars, but, they could be wrong. It may depict an ancient who has been
caught off guard! The painting is simply not old enough to be from the era
when the ancients came and borrowed some humans, so make of that what you
will.
So, here's another possibility for you: the canon secret of the ancients is
"wrong". They didn't merely come *once* to spirit people off to the stars.
They came a few times, for various reasons. Perhaps some Ancients survived
the war with Yaskodray and headed off to Terra (perhaps they thought that
was the last place Yaskodray would look for them). Perhaps, in such a
universe, these Ancients became involved in helping mankind to settle down,
maybe for their own purposes, which could explain why winged humanoid
creatures appear pretty much at the dawn of civilization.
After all, the reasons why mankind settled down in the first place are
largely unknown, and ultimately, probably unknowable. These theories could
all be wrong. :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:54:09 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw - smashing creativity
At 22:47 -0500 24/1/00, david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:
>Dom wrote:
> >I suspect that you're saying that the BtC change stuck in your Craw?
>
>Blast it, Dom, that was going to be _my_ joke...!
I think I just managed to beat Dave Golden to it too ;-)
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:00:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes
At 0:16 -0500 25/1/00, Glenn St-Germain wrote:
>ObTrav: how do beanstalks fit in with Traveller tech? Are they common?
>Rare but not unknown? Completely theoretical? This past weekend my
>Traveller game wound up at Capital (just in time to watch Dulinor get
>blowed up real good -- it's GURPS Traveller), and the players figured
>that if any planet in the Imperium had one, it'd be Capital, so I said
>"why not?" and gave it one... But are there any canon references to one?
>And if not, how likely are they?
Not canon that I know of, but there was a Marcus Rowland scenario in
White Dwarf which was called 'Tower Trouble', set on Terra. The
players were criminals trying to hijack a shipment on the tower.
2300 is the place for beanstalks, especially Beta Canum. IIRC, the
decouple their beanstalk to avoid problems/massive ecological damage
if it was attacked when the Kafer overran the system. It was
mentioned in the 'Tricolour's shadow' in the original boxed set
T2300, in the module 'Beanstalk' and ISTR it may have been in the
Colonial atlas too.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1813
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1813
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, January 25 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1814 (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises. All rights reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Mines Re: How small can a sophont be? Gearhead list (was Re: Nuclear Shotgun) Re: Gearhead list (was Re: Nuclear Shotgun) Re: Tekumel in Traveller Re: Nuclear Shotgun Re: Traveller varients of Christianity Advice for Micah and other New GM's Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1812 Loot and Adventure 10 Democracy: EVIL ,EVIL EVIL. Re: Norse religion (Was: Traveller varients of Christianity) Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1812 Re: MT Damage Re: Psionics Re: MT Damage Re: Psionics Micah Bots, Babes, and Rollerblades. The Traveller Adventure Madoc Subsector: the quick summary of an Imperial backwater ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:30:07 -0800 From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) Subject: Re: Mines >From: Michel Vaillancourt ... >>> So treat a det-laser as a USP C spinal PAWS under HG for hit >>>probabilities and damage... 12 hits per attack, even without criticals, >> >> ?? Under HG2 that's _4_ damage rolls, and only against unarmoured targets. >> > Sorry, Steve.. I must have misread that section... I'll go back >and look at it again, but I though they got a hit per USP, not per USP above >nine... Hmmm. Not nearly as fearsome that way. That's why armour J ships aren't real concerned about TL B PAWS :) MG's can be a hassle, but they should be mission-killed in the first exchange of fire anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:29:50 -0500 From: Ian Ferguson Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be? Richard Martin writes: >I have read a book that discussed the role of nutrition on >evolution. From what I remember brain tissue composed mostly of >omega 3 fatty acids instead of the normal omega 6 in other cell >types. Most herbivoes are able to produce their own omega 3 while >carnivores get theirs from, guess what, herbivores. I don't know anything about omega 3/6 fatty acids, but if carnivore food (herbivores) is full of omega 3, why should they produce it? >This capture of omega 3 and concentrated nutrition packages, as >well as other physical features, allows for the genes to code for >things like larger brains, steroscopic eyesight, smaller gut, more >emphasis on fine muscle control for brains designed for predation. >It seems one of the central theories of the book was that there is >only so much genetic material, much like capacity on a hard drive. >If it is full of one type of programs and data, then others are >absent. Presumably, such a limit would have to be on DNA that is actually used (we have lots that appears to remain unused, and there are organisms with much more DNA than us). It seems highly unlikely that there is any sort of limit on how much DNA an organism can have. Although I do research in evolutionary biology, I have never heard of anything that would suggest that this can be a problem. >The reason why most herbivores are realtively uninspiring in >the intelligence department is because the vast majority of their >brains are controlling the large digestion machinary necessary to >extract nutrients from low quality plant foods. Even then they are >only typically about 10% efficient. Again Natures way of being >effecient. There is evidence that larger bodies require larger brains, but herbivore bodies probably do not require bigger brains than carnivore bodies. The digestive system does not need much control from the brain, and I cannot imagine why a herbivore's digestive efficiency would depend on brain size. Incidentally, the 10% figure that you are reporting probably refers to the approximate average "efficiency" of subsequent food levels in an ecosystem, rather than the digestive efficiency of an individual organism. Even if digestion was 100% efficient, the animal would use food energy for body maintainance, movement, and reproduction, so considerably less than 100% would be available to the next food level. >Homo sapiens pay a large price for their brains. Very true, although some politicians seem to have paid less... :) Peez ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:48:42 -0800 From: "Luther Martin" Subject: Gearhead list (was Re: Nuclear Shotgun) I will volunteer to set up and maintain the list if there is interest. This service is available as part of my web hosting service, so we would not get any annoying advertising. Is there sufficient interest to keep such a list going? > > (I miss GDW-beta and its descendant, the trav-tech list. Any chance > of any nice person starting them up again? Then we gearheads could > take our discussions of nuclear weapon energy coupling somewhere > else and stop bothering the rest of you...) > > Bruce > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:19:58 -0800 (PST) From: Anthony Jackson Subject: Re: Gearhead list (was Re: Nuclear Shotgun) Luther Martin writes: > I will volunteer to set up and maintain the list if there is interest. This > service is available as part of my web hosting service, so we would not get > any annoying advertising. > > Is there sufficient interest to keep such a list going? Well, the problem with such a list is getting people to actually use it... I suspect that even with a tech list we'd find technical questions and issues showing up on the main TML, unless everyone subscribes to the tech list (in which case why bother having it in the first place). > > > > > (I miss GDW-beta and its descendant, the trav-tech list. Any chance > > of any nice person starting them up again? Then we gearheads could > > take our discussions of nuclear weapon energy coupling somewhere > > else and stop bothering the rest of you...) > > > > Bruce > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:57:31 -0800 From: "Zane H. Healy" Subject: Re: Tekumel in Traveller >It's too bad that the offer SJ Games game Barker for GURPS Tekumel was too >far off. My understanding is that Barker was offended by the agressive terms >and decided that he could not work with SJ Games, so we will never see GURPS >Tekumel in print. BTW, most of the previously done material for Tekumel is back in print. If you do a Deja.com search for "carlbrodt" you should pull up the necessary info for ordering stuff. Also a new magazine should be seeing the publication of it's first issue. I've got a copy of the prerelease printing and it's got some great articles in it! Also Volume 3 of Swords and Glory (the volume with the rules) should be published sometime this year finally, and volumes 1 & 2 are back in print (worldbook and character generation). As far as I know the TOME materials are still available from TOME. As for GURPS, there exists a conversion in one of the print copies of Pyramid from about the time the INWO card game came out (I think that's what's on the cover. I'm not sure but the author might have most/all of it at his web page http://www.skypoint.com/~slocum/tekumel/ Probably the best web site for Tekumel info, and one of the best web sites on the net, period. Is http://www.tekumel.com simply put, it's a work of art! Be aware, it helps to have a fast machine and net connection, but it's worth waiting if you don't. >I seem to recall that Barker gave the planets of origin for many of the >non-human species, including the Ahoggya, Shen, Hlaka, etc. I think that in Antares comes to mind for one of them, but I don't feel like digging out the source book. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:08:40 -0500 From: "David J. Golden" Subject: Re: Nuclear Shotgun At 07:53 am 1/25/00 -0800, you wrote: >(I miss GDW-beta and its descendant, the trav-tech list. Any chance >of any nice person starting them up again? Then we gearheads could >take our discussions of nuclear weapon energy coupling somewhere >else and stop bothering the rest of you...) I didn't know it was dead ... there's an email in my GDW-Beta folder right now ... from the end: To sign off, send "unsubscribe" in e-mail to trav-tech-request@qrc.com. Traveller is a trademark of FFE. The use of any trademark or copyright in posts to this list is not a challenge to trademark or copyright status. - -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:35:03 -0500 From: Mark Urbin Subject: Re: Traveller varients of Christianity "Chris Seamans" taunts aliens with: >From: Mark Urbin > > The NEA is a extremely vocal left-wing lobby that is very much in > > favor of strict student testing, but is dead set against teacher > > testing. > > Take it with a large grain of salt. It's only slightly less of a > > handwaving generality than sweeping generalization it was in > > response to and definitely more tongue in cheek. >Well, I imagined it was tongue in cheek, which is why I responded in kind. >See, when you said NEA, I thought you meant the National Endowment for the >Arts. I was confused as to why that particular NEA would be writing course >materials in the first place... let alone feel threatened by the >introduction of aliens. >I hope you'll pardon my confusion there! :) >But, as Leonard pointed out: > >NEA = the national *teachers* union. >(Thanks Leonard!) >I guess you're talking about another organization. The National Education >Association perhaps? :) The National Education Association is who I was talking about. It is one of the two large, national teachers unions in the US. The National Endowment for the Arts would probably welcome friendly Aliens. Gotta get federal grants to put on art shows for the nice Aliens. Present the 'finer aspects' of human society. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em. A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed. -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:41:59 -0900 From: "William F. Hostman" Subject: Advice for Micah and other New GM's >At the moment I have a Scientist, a Merchant, a Marine, and a Rogue so I'm >kinda leaning toward a merchant game. To start I'm saying "the hell with >it" and making up as much as I can But I got a bunch of White wolf and >DND'er type gamers so they arn't really cutting me any slack. > >anyone know an easy way to keep track of details without a computer? All I >have is the schools and they frown on keeping things like this on them. > >Thanks all > >Micah 1) Set aside a notebook. Keep the "Ship's Logs & Manifests" in it. Basically, anything you write down as A GM, put in that notebook. 2) There are some really good mapping forms in the "Referee's Companion"... you had to run before I could find the spare... The forms include: Sector, Subsector, System, Planet, and Planetary Detail. 3) Do some prepwork. Do they have a ship? If so, how many years do they owe on it? If you can, get them a set route... and as long as they work the route, give em slack on ship's payments. And if they are sticking to the route, you can pregenerate passengers and cargos. 4) Worlds: The prep for a world can be as little as 1 sentence "Social Characterization". Give each world some individual flavor element. For example, on Wypoc, outside means off world, not outside the domes ("In the Acids"). Regina is a moon of a gas giant, so describe this huge, sky filling phenomena. 5) If you have access to Macs, find a copy of Glenn's "MT Craft" stacks and d/l hypercard player. They include a cargo generator which can print. William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click interface!" Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- 533 Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+ IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:18:04 -0800 From: "Brian Jenkins" Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1812 Micah Borer Wrote: >>>>>>> At the moment I have a Scientist, a Merchant, a Marine, and a Rogue so I'm kinda leaning toward a merchant game. To start I'm saying "the hell with it" and making up as much as I can But I got a bunch of White wolf and DND'er type gamers so they arn't really cutting me any slack. anyone know an easy way to keep track of details without a computer? All I have is the schools and they frown on keeping things like this on them. >>>>>> I have used computers before Micah but what I find to be the best is a simple 3 ring notebook with dividers. I have sections for NPC, Worlds, News Notes, Adventure Notes, etc. And the other piece of advice I will give you is relax. Traveller is a great game and you sound like you are putting plenty into it to be successful. You will do best if you just do it and then address specific questions as they come up. Have fun and I am sure your players will also. Keep up the good work! Brian Jenkins bjenkins@westek.com ICQ#1202483 "It pays to be obvious. Especially if you have a reputation for subtlety." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:20:31 +0200 From: "Giuseppe" Subject: Loot and Adventure 10 Yes, thank you very much for all that. I'm afraid the asteroid research base was left in total disarray after the raid.... Which reminds me...I have been looking for any/all data I can get on the Animal Class 200 ton Safari ship and now, with the deck plans from Paul's site and the data in the text you provided i am well on the way there. I contacted that brilliant Traveleer artist to see if he had a pic of the 200 ton class and unfortunately he didn't, apparently SJ games didn't want it. I would sure appreciate any/all pictures, deck-plans etc. referring to this ship. If any of you have any pictures scanned in I'd sure appreciate an e-mail : russellp@iafrica.com Anyway, thanks for all that loot. Many, many thanks. G. > Robert James Eaglestone wrote: > > So we have at least one new Traveller GM who's looking > > for some stuff. Well, I have OCR'd text from most of > > the Classic Traveller adventures now on my website: > > > > members.home.net/eaglestone/Resources/index.html > > > > I'm only leaving this stuff up a short time, since it > > takes up space and I'll have to remove it eventually > > when Marc officially begins to reprint them. If there's > > a need and it's permissable to keep them up here, > > maybe Downport would like them? (heh) > > LOOT ! LOOT ! LOOT ! > > Wonderful opportunity. Thanks a lot! > > /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:37:12 +0200 From: "Giuseppe" Subject: Democracy: EVIL ,EVIL EVIL. Guiseppe wrote: >And thus began the descent into utter barbarity and rule by the majority. >Oh how I long for honest despots, tyrants and emperors...why do you guys >think it's an EMPIRE? Democracy failed...it took Humanity some few >millenia to realise it but eventually they figured it out :) "When are people going to realize that Democracy doesn't WORK!" - - Homer Simpson, _The Simpsons_ "One man, one vote. The Patrician is the man, he has the vote." - - from Terry Pratchett's wonderful Diskworld books Being ruled by an enlightened, noble despot has it's good points, especially if he agrees with you on most issues (or , better yet, if you get to be him). The downside is that the enlightened, noble despot's heir and chosen successor may be a spoiled monster who thinks your head would make a good soccer ball. Walt Smith Well, I tend to disagree generally. Democracy tends to become "rule by the lowest common demoniator" and I think risking one's head to avoid that abhorrent condition is a noble enterprise. Anyway, in Traveller terms, I tend to run my campaigns so that the Imperium is kind of like the old Romans. they basically let you do more or less as you wish as long as it's not too out of bounds or interfere with their aims (local, Galaxy wide, whatever) however, generally, shooting at Imperials is a bad idea, they are kind of like Stormtroopers in Star Wars except they are not run by a megalomaniac madman that is inherently evil. That's why i think (despite having read articles detailing the economics of it) that I sure wouldn't like to be a Pirate in my TU. The live might be ok I guess, the occassional brawl or knife fight, the occassional space battle (and you tend to go quickly in those if things go wrong) on the up side I suppose if freebies ranging from combo masks to personal slaves...HOWEVER....once a Pirate I would think in any semi-civilised area of the Universe it would be real hard to become anything else. I tend to think that Pirates are in it for the long haul or not at all. On anothr note, was Marc Miller the guy who originally thought up Traveller way back in 1977? I used to have this old photocopied set of the traveller books (the original 1977 version) and I seem to recall some reference or something in the credits to some people who were actually in the real life version of the armed forces (Army? I don't recall). Maybe I'm imagining it though. I still have only CT stuff (and few of it since I live in Africa) but no longer have those photocopies (I went legit years ago having tracked down some old original but they are 1981 version books and not a word about who did the thinking behind the creation.) This may be a quasi-heretic question on this list, but I'd sure welcome any information. You can e-mail me or just reply to the list if this hasn't been done to death already. Thanks, G. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:50:27 +0100 From: Jens Rydholm Subject: Re: Norse religion (Was: Traveller varients of Christianity) Robert James Eaglestone wrote: > Give me the Nordic days any old time! I might be overly zealous here, but you've got some of the days wrong. > (Sun Day) Söndag (possibly a referrence to "söner" ("sons"), I don't know) > (Moon Day) > Tiw's Day > Woden's Day Oden's day (Onsdag) > Thor's Day > Frigga's Day Actually Frej's day (Fredag), not Freja's (Frigga's in English). > (Saturn's Day) Saturn was a Roman god... the Nordic name for Saturday is Lördag (which is a short form of an archaic way of saying "washing day"... a bit less glamorous) > Maybe we can use the Vilani day names? > What are they, by the way? Since the Vilani are overly fond of their chefs the names would probably be Welcome drink day, Appetizer day, Main course day, and Dessert day. Seriously, I suspect that at least the holiday of the week would have a name relating to food in some way. /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:14:21 -0500 From: "David J. Golden" Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1812 At 01:18 pm 1/25/00 -0800, you wrote: >Micah Borer Wrote: >>>>>>>> >At the moment I have a Scientist, a Merchant, a Marine, and a Rogue so I'm >kinda leaning toward a merchant game. To start I'm saying "the hell with >it" and making up as much as I can But I got a bunch of White wolf and >DND'er type gamers so they arn't really cutting me any slack. > >anyone know an easy way to keep track of details without a computer? All I >have is the schools and they frown on keeping things like this on them. >>>>>>> > >I have used computers before Micah but what I find to be the best is a simple 3 ring notebook with dividers. I have sections for NPC, Worlds, News Notes, Adventure Notes, etc. And the other piece of I'll second (third? fourth? six-hundred ninety-eighth?) this. When I had time to actually play or referee, I tried to keep a fairly complete notebook. I actually got an "easel" binder, which is a three-ring notebook with a split cover that pops out to prop it up. That way, it's up where I can see it, somewhat concealed from the players, etc. I also printed up index cards with NPCs, animals, equipment, etc. to keep handy. Get a couple of 3.5" disk sheets for the binder, and you can stick index cards in them. - -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:30:04 -0900 From: Peter Newman Subject: Re: MT Damage "William F. Hostman" wrote > Considering that a trepida is (Without the Erratta) 12/29 for it's hull, > and is a 13Td craft. Armor 40G. So that means it can take 120 points before > being knocked out (unless the damage tables from refs get you a suspension > or PP hit, in which case 10 will do). Another viable option usable in versions of Traveller which permit small meson guns is to aim at the Trepida's pilot with the meson gun. If you put a hole in the pilots head than any low flying grav vehicle without an aggressive autopilot will almost certainly crash. Since pilots almost invariably have fewer hit points than vehicle this technique can work well. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:49:42 -0900 From: Peter Newman Subject: Re: Psionics Walter Smith wrote > Jim Lawrie wrote: > >At TL12 psionic shielding is an option for armour according to the MT > >IE, it only cost 4000cr and does not seem to appreciably weigh anything. > >It blocks against psionic mind reading and life sensing. (And everyone said > >the Imperials don't do psionic research!) > >I think at higher TL's you could definitely add options to hulls, > >stopping those lousy Zho teleporting marines doing their voodoo. > It isn't clear that CT TL12 psionic shielding protects against either > clairvoyance or teleportation. It would be nice if it did, but I think it > doesn't. My understanding was that psionic shielding protected against clairvoyance (as well as against telepathy) but that psionic shielding did not (can not?) protect against teleportation. IIRC there is a DGP (TD #9 ?) reference to the Imperial Palace being shielded against clairvoyance. IIRC canon is vague on this. Canon says that zho clairvoyants use psionics to locate grenade pins which they then pull telekinetically but I was under the impression that this occurred only in areas without psi shielding. This raises the question of whether or not psi shields can stop _telekinesis_. If the off switch on a psi shield helmet can be shielded against being pulled telekinetically than why can't the pins on the grenades Imperial soldiers use? I'm sure that it would be expensive but since psi shields, which cost only a few thousand Cr, have it why don't grenades? A few thousand Cr may be an astronomical increase in the price of a grenade but its way less than the military has probably paid to train the poor shlub with the grenade and without an anti psi grenade pin he's toast. It may be a question of volume (a grenade is too small) or it may be that an anti teke switch on a psi shield is an easy add on since the helmet is already stopping some other forms of psi but you can't add this feature to a grenade without essentially making the grenade into a psi helmet (i.e. too big to throw). Of course this begs the question of if putting a psi shield on a ship or vehicle protects its controls against being controlled by telekinesis. I think game balance demands either that telekinesis not work against starships or that fusion plants be safe. Otherwise all a telekinetic has to do is disrupt containment on the fusion plants shielding (magnetic bottle?) and the ship explodes. The critical ship damage charts include the "ship blows up" critical, thus it is clear that fusion plants are not _always_ safe. The question is if a telekinetic can throw a few switches to do to a ship what it takes a critical combat hit to do. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:06:39 -0800 (PST) From: Anthony Jackson Subject: Re: MT Damage Peter Newman writes: > Another viable option usable in versions of Traveller which > permit small meson guns is to aim at the Trepida's pilot with > the meson gun. If you put a hole in the pilots head than any > low flying grav vehicle without an aggressive autopilot will > almost certainly crash. *snicker*. See tanks suddenly have meson screens. I got the meson gun rules in GT erratad after I discovered I could build a 350 lb meson gun for $54k and make tanks obsolete ;) Incidentally, in GT tank cannons tend to be more powerful than turreted weapons, though their range is dramatically shorter. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:07:42 -0800 From: "Luther Martin" Subject: Re: Psionics What about this defense against teleporting Zhodani commandoes? You randomly cycle the artificial gravity on your ship over a range of about plus or minus 1% (or whatever range it takes to get the desired effect) around the comfortable 1 g. If your commando is on a planet's surface, he can't change elevation much without having to worry about the effects of changing potential energy. On a ship with artificial gravity, the same principle must apply, but we are now changing the gravity instead. So it will be likely that a commando who teleports onto your ship will likely be fried in some unpleasant way. Are there any obvious problems with this strategy? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:19:04 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Micah If I could make a suggestion, the best way to keep track of details is not to have many. Try and stop your PCs having a ship with a big jump number, they jump all over the place and never stay on your beautifully detailed planets for more than half an hour. If you can give them a crotchety jump drive that keeps failing, stranding them on interesting planets while the repairs are made they might play along. If you can compensate for the negative with something positive they're more likely to be cooperative. I'd suggest a good weapons load out and some free maintenance robots (to fix the ever failing jump drive, so they can go explore) I can make some robots up for you if you like. I know it's contrived and artificial, but good players can play along, especially if you tell them why! A note on the published scenarios, they're not exactly action packed (although I have never played in The Traveller Adventure). It's a good idea to get them a nemesis early, someone to be in conflict with and to supply obstacles and opponants for the PCs. They don't even have to appear as an actual opponant, just a mention will do. In Marooned the hated captain of "The Foundling" (A rival free trader) was later found to have supplied the pursuers with a dossier on the PCs habits, descriptions and standard tactics. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:21:27 -0800 From: "Thing" Subject: Bots, Babes, and Rollerblades. The recent talk about bots go me a thinkin. I always handwaved the lack of bots, blaming it on the Shudusham Concords of -112. Since these restricted the weapons that robots and other machines could carry. Even with no legal bearing in the 3I, I handwaved it to have enough impact on society that it just wasn't done (At least not openly. Those frontier R&D facilities have to be good for something.). So no killer war bots, no deadeye bot gunners, and no bot pilots because most starships could make very effective weapons. I've always kept bots restricted to primarily industrial and service work. You can have service and repair robots, valet/steward bots, etc., but very limited security bots and no bots capable of using ships weaponry or crashing a starship into some nice architecture. Where the actual limitations of the Shudusham Concords ever actually listed in any canon source? G.D.D. Thing under the stairs, Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny, Grand Master of the Electron Flow. ================================== "All of the books in the world contain no more information than is broadcast as video in a single large American city in a single year. Not all bits have equal value." -Carl Sagan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:38:03 -0600 From: Eris Reddoch Subject: The Traveller Adventure I don't have "The Traveller Adventure", there wasn't such a thing when I bought my first printing LLB's and AFAIK, it wasn't ever published separately...or was it? If so, does anyone have an idea where I could find it? Eris - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- "Eris Reddoch" - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:59:57 -0500 From: "Alvin" Subject: Madoc Subsector: the quick summary of an Imperial backwater Madoc subsector survey, 1120 Madoc subsector contains 21 systems, with a total population of 6,812,594,000. The world with the highest population is Kelvin, at 6,379,553,000. The highest TL is F, found in Tyrranus, Kaesong, Veimandu, DreamSong, and Kampong systems. Starport A ports are found at Lucy's Diamonds, Kaesong, Veimandu, and DreamSong. The subsector capital is at Kaesong. There are no Main routes in the subsector. Feeder routes go from Tyrranus to Nephilim to Kelvin. Minor routes go from Nephilim to Ogodza to NightVision: a second branch goes from Ogodza to Kaesong. X-boat routes follow all these routes except the conection to NightVision. I make the assumption that the IISS round's their population figures up when classifying the population. All population figures are NOT taken from the Second Survey, but are from the IISS local survey of 1118, done at the Duke of Madoc's orders. This survey is much more recent than the Second Survey of 1065, and includes information of insystem settlements. Data on the local racial and religious beliefs is of political and commercial importance, and added here for the traveller. There are no native sophonts in this subsector: most of the nonhumans live on NightVision (1.1 million, from various Old Expanses and Delphi races), and Kaesung (100,000, very heterogenous mixture). Some modification's have been made due to recent events, from the latest information available. All figures are rounded to the nearest thousand except at Stoll , DreamSong (nearest hundred), and Rephaiah (head count). Stoll 1733 BAA7203-E N Ni Ex Lo Ni 800 Im G4 V (Home: 299th Imperial fleet, both Regular and Colonial) Pernament population 800, heterogeneous Imperial origins & beliefs Offical Motto: "Stand and Deliver!" The location of a very young and modern naval base (opened 1108), built as the new home of the 299th fleet while the old naval base at Kelvin was being dismantled at 1006. The Imperial Madoc Subsector Fleet is light on battleships and crusiers, heavy on carriers, heavy assault transports (large warship's armed to cruiser levels, with a major troop transport & grav vehicle component), armoured troop transports, and destroyer squadrons. The fleet is expected to be able to launch one major planetary invasion and one minor invasion at the same time. In case of external attack, the 299th fleet would be reinforced with element's of the massive 169th fleet at Promise subsector. The Regular Fleet is built to TL F specifications, and with it's large armoured troop transports and major ground support assets, it's often out of the subsector, working with other Navy units on excercises, field operations, and diplomatic gestures at the Imperial/Solomani Confederation border. In case of war, the Regular fleet is expected to follow up immediately after Line of Battle units, spearheading assaults on heavily-defended, high-tech Solomani worlds. The Colonial Fleet is at TL A - D (mainly at TL C), and is the ugly duckling of the entire Diaspora fleet. As it's near the very last of the line when it comes to Imperial procurement and supplies within the sector, local commanders have becomes very skilled at getting the best out of obsolecent equipment. (Not surprising, many of them are culturally or genetically Vilani: they actually *love* working with this stuff.) They are tasked mainly with showing the flag, supporting the heavy Imperial Army garrison at Nephilim, suppressing piracy, and training with local system navies. Diotrephes 1737 C8D5359-C Ni Lo 812 Im M5 V Pernament population 8,000, Kelvinite Solomani, Ismya Christian Offical Motto: "Ecclesiates 2:24" A small colony settled by refugees from Kelvin in 1099. While quite contemptous of Kelvin rationalism, their Christianity is only rather superficial: they have a stronger love of wild living and strong drink. The major enonomic activity is mining and capitalizing on the celebrity of Aracon M'Bec, a local programmer famous across two subsectors for his entertainment modules (it's an acquired taste). Macedonia 1739 EA84719-C Ag 503 Im F2 IV Pernament population 49,977,000, Ogadzi, Ismya Christian One additional settled world insystem, pop 260,000, also Ogadzi race, Ismya Christian Offical Motto: "Tend to Your Plot" in Latin A peaceful, pastoral world, Macedonia is the breadbasket of the subsector, and the major holding of Tuleon AgriCorp LIC. The system has the largest E-class port in Diaspora Sector: despite the C-class traffic, the Imperial Starport Authority can't upgrade without permission from the Baronnet. The Baronnet of the system used to rule the planet, but got into very deep debt. The system was seized by his creditor's in 1093 (with permisson from the Sector Duchess), and sold to Tuleon. The Baronnet still retain's his noble patent on the system, and is using the port problems as his major bargaining chip to regain political authority. Lucy's Diamonds 1740 A567425-D Ni 200 Im M4 V M4 D Pernament population 23,000, Kelvinite Solomani, nonIsmya Christian Offical Motto: "The Land of Promise" in Hebrew This is a recently terraformed world, being settled by refugees from Kelvin. The world itself is quite beautiful, and quite lonely: it's the only planetary body that exist in this system: there are no moons, no comets, nothing. The Class-A port is mainly to welcome the 10 million refugees in the subsector, when the Imperial Ministry of Colonization gives the all-clear to fully colonize the world, which is expected "soon". Tyrannus 1838 B461758-F Ri 515 Im K7 V M0 VI Pernament population 84,175,000, Ogadzi, Ismya Christian Four settled worlds insystem, of 29,979,000 population total, also Ogadzi, Ismya Christian Offical Motto: "God Wills It" in Latin This is the most wealthiest world in the subsector, and among the most influencial. Most of the non-governmental organizations with subsector-wide influence is based here, including religious and charitable organizations, technology exchange alliances, local business syndicates, and numerous cultural uplift institutes. The system itself is in the midst's of a population explosion, and is both currently upgrading mainworld infrastructure and terraforming the world of Adoration, in it's companion star system, for settlement. Three other worlds within the system has already been settled, all at TL F. One of them is being "upgraded" to increase surface water and thicken the atmosphere. Emigration to other Ogadzi systems in the subsector, and throughout much of Diaspora sector, continues as it has for the last century. The system is ruled by a number of local noble houses, who originally ganied their power by control of the planetary water supply after the fall of the old Tyrrant-based dictatorship. They have been expanding their rule to leading technological advancement across the subsector, and view themselves as not only the leaders of Tyrannus, but of all Ismya Christians in general, and the Ogadzi race as well. Intensely religious and patrotic, they promote the Ogadzi interstellar community, practically creating a "shadow subsector government" below the Imperial Duchy. In many matters outside of military power and trade, they - with the other Ogadzi planetary leaders - are actually more powerful than the Imperium within Madoc subsector. With the turn of the Imperial century, Ogadzi culture in general - and Tyrannus in particular - are rethinking their political goals. The Ogadzi were long allied with the Solomani, taking their religion and much of their culture. However, during the Solomani RimWar the Solomani showed their distain to the Ogadzi, forcing the old Ogadzi StarUnion to "voluntary" give up their fleets to defend worlds with pure-blooded Solomani inhabitants, and surrender their own worlds to the Imperium. Eventually, the Ogadzi have been forced to conclude that their mixed Solomani-Vilani heritage will forever bar them from really being accepted by the Solomani, and no longer consider the Solomani as friends. Now, at 1120, the Ogadzi leadership are shifting their drive to expanding their religion. For the last century they deliberately cut themselves off from Imperial culture, protecting their own community and childern from Imperial pluralism. Now, however, Imperial culture is visibly weakening and fracturing, and no longer poses a threat to the Ismya religious faith or Ogadzi cultural survival. The Ogadzi - again lead by wealthy Tyrannus - are now intent in shaping the future of all Diaspora, and are beginning an intense missionary drive to bring salvation to all of Diaspora's cultures, and insure that King Jesus is given proper respect and obedience by all of Diaspora rulers. Kensington 1840 E72768A-B Ni 605 Im M1 V Pernament population 6,150,000, Ogadzi, Ismya Christian Offical Motto: "Strength from the Rock" Settled for it's ultra-pure deposit's of various minerals, the system went into depression during the 1090's as the mine's played out. By the 1110's, the financial failures had run their course, and things are starting to look up again. The current focus is on rebuilding infrastructure, and reknitting the economic and social web's that connected Kensington with the rest of Ogadzi interstellar society. Ogadzi and nonOgadzi business interest's are jostling for the contract's, with the local Baron favouring nonOgadzi corporations and the local government prefering Ogadzi organizations. The local civil service is quite powerful, and govern's the world with what passes for an iron fist among the Ogadzi. [ "You mean that you can't carry your Glock around in it's holster? What brand of fascism runs *this* place?" ] Mashad 1933 C44858B-D Ni Ag 314 Im M1 V Pernament population 257,000, Ogadzi, Ismya Christian Offical Motto: "Remember The Ways of Your Fathers" in Vilani This system was abandoned to the Flash Plague during the 940's: when the Ogadzi StarUnion Navy returned to the system to find out survivors, they found only about 100,000 thinly scattered savages who - once checked for disease - were transported to Ogodza. Currently, the mainworld is being terraformed by various Ogadzi organizations to improve on the original Vilani job, with it's dull but stable ecology. Large-scale settlement is now possible, but so far few are making the move: "too many ghosts", they claim. Despite the high law level, everyone is armed: the emergency laws are due to a major investigation concerning local necromancy (contacting the dead) and the world is effectively under a odd version of martial law until all of the enemies of God are found out and burned at the stake. Pagan merchants, visitor's and guest's are quite safe as long as they don't start baiting the witch hunters, or otherwise behave in an obviously heretical fashion. Ogodza 1934 C996786-A 802 Im K0 D Pernament population 83,252,000, Ogadzi, Ismya Christian Two settled worlds insystem, total population 676,000, also Ismya Christian Offical Motto: "Heart and Soul" in Korean All but one of the continent's of Ogodza was wiped out by the Flash Plague: only the single continent of Cenusa successfully kept it's quarrentine intact. About 75% of the population is on this mountainous, rugged continent, with the rest starting up farms and small towns on the "world-continent" of Suiho and the large island of Wansan. Ten's of thousand's of Ogadzi visit every year to see the surviving cultural treasures at Cenusa and the largely empty cities, left intact by the Plague. Ogadza's moon and a secondary world has also been recolonized: both are vacuum worlds. Black Seam 1938 D768321-9 Ni Lo 103 Im M9 V Pernament population 963, Kelvinite, nonIsmya Christian Offical Motto: "We Work the Black Seam, Together!" This system containes the last untamed ecosystem in this long-settled subsector. While not immediately dangerous, the planetary microorganism's make long-term settlement and food cultivation far more difficult & expensive than most pioneer's are willing to tolerate. The local's make their living by hunting and capturing animals for trade, as well as acting as hunting guides for several subsector client's. Kaesong 2031 A110748-F Na 603 Im G2 V Pernament population 5,510,000, Ogadzi/Imperial mix [2,800,000 Ogadzi, 1,888,000 native Kaesong, 522,000 Kelvinite 200,000 other human, 100,000 nonhuman ] Three settled worlds insystem, total population 470,000, various cultures & religions Offical Motto: "Starburst Forever!" Capital of the subsector during both Third Imperial periods of rule, Kaesong has traditionally ben a bastion of pro-Imperial sentiment in the subsector. However, with the heavy influx of Ogadzi and Kelvin refugees, the system's culture has grown more and more cold towards the Imperium, and more sympathetic to native Madoc concerns. The original nonChristian population - now a minority demographically, and becoming so in wealth and political power - remain's stoutly loyal to the Imperium: street conflicts between Christians and native Kaesongeli are common during times of tension. The system has only recently regained it's TL F rating, after a brief but very hard depression caused by the collapse of the local financial system. Local nonhumans were forced to flee the system during the brief downturn, but are now welcomed back with the recovery: many Kaesongi are ashamed of their previous behaviour. Of the three other settled worlds in Kaesong system, one is an impoverished remnant of an old pirate colony, another is a classicaly Vilani-style religious colony, and the third is a manufactoring plant for an Imperial Doman-wide corporation. Nephilim 2037 C694896-A A 103 Im M4 V M8 D Pernament population 100,750,000, Solomani, Ismya Christian Offical Motto: none currently A unitary world government under an Imperial-appointed Baron has been re-established in 1115, with the major political fractions having a say in how things operate. Major aid from Tyrranus and other Ismya Christian cultures is providing significant help in rebuilding society, and the system is expected to hit TL B in 15 years, C in 40 years. Much ruined, unusable, and unmaintainable TL F equipment is available at firesale prices. The Amber zone rating is due to the danger of native diseases, unstable enviromental systems, and occassional outbrakes of xenophobia, religious violence, and racial aminosity that traders may face. All of Nephilim's five insystem colonies were destroyed during the recent racial war, and have been pretty well looted out by adventurers, pirates and other PC parties. (Nephilim destroyed it's system navy in the civil war: the several Imperial Colonial naval units in-system generally stick to the mainworld.) There is a heavy contingement of Imperial Army units on the Nephilim itself, sent to stop the open genocide during the war. With the recent peace holding steady, they are curently being withdrawn back to their homeworlds. Arrikesh 2040 E898532-D 902 Im K4 II M1 D Pernament population 90,000, Vilani , Vilani Ritualism Offical Motto: "Always the Same" in Old High Vilani This system is currently in a state of flux, as the ruling dynasty converted to Christianity while the populance remain's loyal to their Vilani ritualist heritage. The Arrikesh situation may be considered a revolution in extreme slo-mo: no bombs or bullet's, but still a greater rate of change over the past 100 years than in the past 4,000. How the profoundly localized, deeply traditionalist pure-blooded Vilani - still recovering from the massive tech level "gift" from the Sector government - will finally come to terms with the monarchy's actions remains to be seen. Rephaiah 2134 D53A010-C S Ni Lo Wa 902 Im M4 V (Home base of the Subsector Scouts) Pernament population 9, Imperial Interstellar Scout Service 'retirees' Offical Motto: "The Strange New World" Soon after the Imperial conquest of this subsector during the Solomani Rim War, Rephaiah was selected for an exploratory mining base. Things didn't work out, so the world was sold to a Ogadzi colonization group. They determined that it wasn't worth their while to develop, so they sold it to a local real estate conglomerate. This conglomerate evetually went bankrupt, and the subsector Duchess seized the world as payment for unpaid debt's. She decided to give the world to Grand Princess ( heir to the Irridium Throne ). The Grand Princess doesn't really need another dead rockball to watch, so she gave the world to the IISS, who sold it to an investment fund in 1077 on the condition that the IISS would have extensive right's on base construction, freedom from any taxation, and advisory status on any development of the world below. A small orbiting scout base was built, and opened for Scout business in 1084: the public starport soon followed in 1087. The local Scout base is available for Scout usage only: it's basically a staging, resupply, and light repair site for Scout's in the field. Most administration is handled from the nearby subsector capital of Kaesong, but field drills and training is done here. An unusually high amount of cultural monitoring and sociological survellance and study is done in this subsector, and several overt and semi-covert Scout operations is going on in this subsector at any point in time. While antiImperial harrassment goes with the territory, rarely is a Scout's life actually in danger: as he is in the Emperor's service, the worst that will usually happen is expulsion by the local government, or a light beating by the local hotheads. Veimandu 2136 A67A338-F Ni Lo Wa 412 Im K0 II Pernament population 4,000, Kelvinite Solomani, nonIsmya Christian Offical Motto: "Grace and Peace" in Koine Greek Veimandu is a small but highly prosperous port, a meeting point for the Kelvin Christian diaspora who often arrived here first in their flight. The temporary, visitor population is typically ten times that of the pernament residents, and are usually in the very well run class-A starport, rather than on the tiny island that makes up Veimandu's land surface. DreamSong 2236 A784220-F Ni Lo 605 Im M6 IV K5 V Pernament population 600, Imperial-mix human, Void Mysticism Offical Motto: "Across the Void" Sold to the Vacare during the 1070's, the follower's of Void Mysticism have plans to sell this world to a friendly buyer, at the right price. Part of the port is leased to Hulls & Drives, LIC, who have a few small construction berths, building far trader's and utility spacecraft on the cheap. Despite the suitability for settlement, no suitable buyer has been found, as the previous settlers had to evacuate in 1072 due to a single heavy meteor shower, which has not reoccurred since. NightVision 2333 B444736-E Ag 514 Im M2 V M0 D Pernament population 52,670,000, Imperial-mix human, Void Mystic Two settled worlds insystem, total population 554,000 Offical Motto: "Into the Void" In the early 800's, Void worshippers from the neighbouring subsector of Khulam obtained permission of the subsector Duke (who only nominally ruled the subsector at the time) to settle the systems in hex 2333 and 2334, renaming them NightVision and LightWaves. Despite hostility from subsector Christians, they held on to their worlds, and today NightVision is a comfortable, hight-tech world. Revenue comes in from both agribusiness and NightVision's standing as the central base of Void Mysticism, a religion known in some part's of the Old Expanses and Delphi sectors. About 2% of the local population - 1.1 million - are nonhuman believers, making this system by far the centre of nonhuman population in the subsector. With the influence NightVision has on LightWaves, DreamSong and Kampong, the Baroness of NightVision is currently petitioning the Emperor to be elevated to a Count. Unfortunately, none of these worlds are high-pop systems, so it's unlikely that her petition will be granted. The two other colonized worlds in the system, Opaque and Translucent, have been Red Zoned by TAS: all unauthorized approaching craft are destroyed without warning by the system navy. LightWaves 2334 C225666-B Ni A 524 Im M9 III Pernament population 5,248,000, Imperial-mix human, Void Mysticism Offical Motto: "Fear not the Void" LightWaves, unlike the smaller DreamSong, is a directly-owned colony of NightVision, and is governed from that system. A frozen world of a very dim, large star, the people of LightWaves are continally building artifacts and buildings that they claim focuses the power of the Void, encasing it and making it available for the initiate to grasp with her mind. Various forms of music and other artforms are also pursued here, all focusing on harnessing and amplifying the power of the Void. Despite the evident beauty of some of these items, they are generally banned in the Ogadzi worlds as idols, fit only for destruction. Please note the Amber rating of the system: meteor showers and bombardment's are quite common in-system. Every settlement has two to ten laser turrents, primarily for anti-meteor defense. Starship's are generally able to navigate around the meteors, but please insure that ground control has a up-to-date flight plan of your vessel, before you begin your decent. Meteor shower's generally strike during certain periods of the year, usually for about 100 days in any 365-day cycle. These objects are interstellar in origin, and these clouds are expected to continue to enter the LightWave system for another five centuries or so. Base Caprivi 2338 D559348-9 Lo Ni 803 Im M2 V Pernament population 8,000, heterogeneous Imperial origins & beliefs Offical Motto: "Enlightenment" This site is under intensive archeological investigation by Imperials of The Caprivi Institute of Aight (Khavle:Diaspora 3203 C752A99-D D5 Hi Po 701 Im G2V). Uncovered remains suggest that a large Vilani/Solomani settlement existed on this world thousands of years before the First Imperium was founded. The partially preserved remains of a Third Imperium liner, apparently the survivor of a misjump back in time, has been found and dated to at least -5000 Imperial: some claim it could be much older. There is much intellectual controversy on this discovery, with many scientist's claiming that it's physically impossible, or a fraud, or a deeply flawed interpretation of the evidence. Current Imperial time theorists believe that the concept is possible, but the jump drive construction permit only forward leap's in time, not backward leaps. In total, the actual population of the system is more like 10,000 at any one time, with the extra 2,000 being transient scientist's, researchers and science reporters from across the Imperium and Solomani Confederation. Kelvin 2340 B89899A-D Hi In 604 Im M6 V M2 D (only Hi-pop system in the subsector) Pernament population 6,379,553,000, Kelvin Solomani rationalists Six inhabited insystem worlds, total population 12,000 Offical Motto: "The Rule of Reason" in French Kelvin is sometimes referred to as the sleeping giant of the subsector. While only the third wealthiest system in Madoc, it's by far the most populous, holding over 93% of the subsector's population. On the other hand, the system is more economically and socially tied to Concord subsector/Solomani Rim than to the comparatively low-pop frontier systems in Madoc subsector/Diaspora. Moreover, it has never been eager to get into expensive empire-building or into a passionate civil war, prefering to avoid trouble and stick to it's own knitting in-system. Perhaps that's why, of the four high-population systems that has existed in Madoc subsector since the end of the Long Night (Ogodzi, Mashad, Nephilim, and Kelvin), only Kelvin retains her high-pop standing. Because of it's ardent reverance of Reason and the Mind, Kelvin has closed off relations with most of the worlds in the subsector by the time Strephon was proclaimed Emperor in 1071: currently, subsector dipomatic relations exists only with Steel Spheres and Base Caprivi, both small worlds close to Kelvin. Imperial trade and cross-shipment, however, is not intefered with, and there is more raw interstellar good's bought by Kelvin than any other system in the subsector. Traditionally populating several worlds in-system, these locations have been effectively abandoned and the population relocated to the mainworld, with only a token population of 2,000 on each outer world to insure Kelvin ownership. Each of the lesser worlds also has a 3,000 disp, non-jump TL D warship tasked for local patrol, with the bulk of the fleet at the Kelvin homeworld. As part of the local ideology, the population is being shifted to a sedentary existance of life in low berth "WorkPods", [ similar in concept to the tanks in the movie The Matrix.] At eye-popping expense, over 3 billion people already live in rows and rows of these steel cylinders, with another two billion due to have their own WorkPods by 1130, leaving only a billion for physical labour, maintenance, etc. Kampong 2434 B100664-F Ni Va Na Ex 110 Im M3 V M9 D Pernament population 971,000, Solomani Christian (superficial) Offical Motto: "Rebirth" in Bahasa Indonesian This system is nominally Ismya Christian, but of Solomani Javanese decent rather than part of the Ogadzi cultural domain. Founded as a revival of the 15th century AD Javanese culture, the local's have decided to revere their heritage as of more worth than their old religion, and are ardent Kampong/Javanese patriots. Void Mysticism is becoming more influencal in this system: already, the system government and many businesses owe extensive debt's to the Vacare, and the young are more interested in Void Mysticism than thery ever were in their father's half-forgotten religion. In turn, the Vacare are learning much from the old Hindu/Buddhist/Islamic belief's that were prominent in old Java, and are still carefully taught in all Kampong classrooms. Steel Spheres 2440 E300364-E Ni Va Na Ex 914 Im F1 V (only no-water mainworld in the subsector) Pernament population 9,000, Vilani ancestor worshippers Offical Motto: "Remember" in Modern Vilani Despite this world's hostility to life, the Vilani for some reason build a series of massive, metallic/crystaline artifact's that dot the planet. In some cases, hundred's of square kilometer's of the planet's surface is covered with a 5-metre deep sheet of high-grade steel (thus the world's name). All of this fevered construction occurred at TL 9 - A, between - -3000 and -2620 during the thousand years of Vilani decadence. *Why* did the normally sensible, staid, predictable Vilani create such a preplexing puzzle is completely unknown: even the Vilani name of the world has been lost to history. The Vilani Mapki ancestor-worshipping society dominate this world, led by their nonImperial nobles (actually, Vilani archeologists/priest's/nobles). They lease the world from the Kelvin rationalist's who own the system, who - despite their worship of the long-dead First Imperium ancestors - allow them free reign on the world, as long as they recognize Kelvin soverignty over the system, provide some artifact's for trade, give Kelvin scientists first hearing of any new discoveries, and keep the local Ismya Christian powers out of the system. One of the major goals of the Mapki religion is to obtain the original name of the world, to "properly worship the ancestors", they claim. Alvin Plummer ------------------------------ End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1814 *********************************** To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command: unsubscribe traveller-digest in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller": subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest" in the commands above with "traveller". Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1815
Date: 1/25/00 4:33:14 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Tuesday, January 25 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1815
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Psionics
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: The Traveller Adventure
RE: Small change
Re: Mines
Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
Madoc history: Before the Third Imperium
Re: The Traveller Adventure
[OT} Quokkas
Re: The Traveller Adventure
Madoc history: The Imperium, The Ogadzi and the JumpLords
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:49:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: Psionics
Protecting against clairvoyance SHOULD protect against teleportation into
an area that you have never been in. One wouldn't want to teleport into a
wall. IIRC you can't use telekinesis on something that you cannot see.
I think this is one of the reasons that they sent that SORAG agent who was
Lady Gwendolina's double into the palace. Jiss and Gwendi had some
memorable times with THAT one!
Kiri =)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:51:04 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
> alter Smith
> Richard Martin wrote:
> >Homo sapiens pay a large price for their brains. First is the question
> >of maturity at birth. In order for women to give live birth the human
> >infant is basically born 3 months premature in order to get the large
> >braincase through the rather small opening forced on humans because of
> >their bipedality.
Assuming that you could avoid the possibility of the baby's
head being turned in the birth canal you could simply
have a race of cone heads, ala Saturday Night Live. The brain
gets bigger vertically [which requires a stronger neck, of
course] but the skull does not increase in diameter.
Traveller News service data from the (hopefully non canonical)
Challenge #59 & 1/2 notes: [Challenge 59 April Fools
Insert, page "80% cotton".]
Remulak/France Sector Date:SAT-NITE
Imperial Sources report that perhaps the single Imperial world
most hard hit by the collapse of trade following the Rebellion
is the planet Remulak.
Planetary spokesperson Beldar Conehead takes up the story "Due
to our need to constantly consume mass quantities of beer and
chips, we are rapidly exhausting the ability of our ecosystem
to support us. Many people have tried to help by sending single
beers, but as we can only drink hem six at a time, this has proven
to be of no assistance. Normally we would be able to exist on
fried chicken embryos, but we have donated them all to trick-or-
treaters."
More on this tragic story as it develops
> Now that makes me think. What if a post-human race decided to get
> around this limit by not being bipedal any more?
>
> I know, hands are too useful to get rid of. But redesign the human from
> the lower chest down to be a centauroid...
>
> Yeah, I know, it's probably easier just to redesign the woman's pelvis
> to change at end-stage pregnancy from "efficient for walking" to
> "pops open for baby delivery".
Why redesign the _pelvis_ why not simply redesign the
lower stomach to include a zipper. When you're ready
to give birth you simply unzip it.
> Or just make your civilization dependent
> on non-natural childbirth, or even non-natural wombs. But I happen to
> like centaurs when they pop up in science fiction. :-)
>
> Walt Smith
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:54:24 GMT
From: "i Steve"
Subject: Re: The Traveller Adventure
>I don't have "The Traveller Adventure", there wasn't such a thing >when I
>bought my first printing LLB's and AFAIK, it wasn't ever >published
>separately...or was it? If so, does anyone have an idea >where I could
>find it?
Annnnnnnnd....CUE SWORDY!!!
iSteve
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk
isteve1967@hotmail.com
ICQ#54933683
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:02:05 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: RE: Small change
On 24 Jan 00, at 15:44, david.d.jaques-watson@centrel wrote:
> Dear Folks -
>
> Frank asked:
> >> What gets me is that (here in NZ, anyway) all WINZ payments
> >> (unemployment benefit, sickness benefit, superannuation, etc, etc) are
> >> direct credited to a bank account - no exceptions.
> >
> >Hmm, and what do they do for those that don't have any banks within a
> >day's walk ?
>
> Probably say, "Tough!". Anyway, I thought there was almost no govt left in
> NZ?! (outsourced, big business runs the place, etc ;-) ;-)
THis is true, but this hasn't gotten rid of the government (which is
bigger than ever), just removed any need for said government to do
any work.
> In our case (Oz), every post office is an agent for the Commonwealth Bank.
> And/or they have Giropost available. Remote outback stations also have
> arrangements where they will cash your cheque. And in any case, we have
> the highest number of ATM's/EFTPOS per capita, and even the outback
> stations have 'em!
Actually we've got lots of them, too. Mostly in the big towns where
there are plenty of banks, though.
> Biggest problem with totally getting rid of cheques where I work is the
> o/s clients - the country with the largest number of o/s clients, Greece,
> has no central banking system. We simply *cannot* make direct credit
> payments to Greece, because there is no electronic distribution
system.
But I thought all the Greeks lived in Sydney :) Or does that count as
o/s?
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:02:05 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Mines
On 23 Jan 00, at 21:17, Luther Martin wrote:
> I think that I recall from Brilliant Lances that advanced TL missiles
> detonate 2 hexes away from their target, or about 60,000 km. So a spacing
> of one mine every 30,000 km will probably give you good coverage. Whether
> you can actually do this will probably depend on the tactical situation.
> You can probably get it if you are trying to stop a pursuit by the bad
> guys.
If you want lots of cheap mines you won't be using 2-hex det lasers -
they cost IIRC about 10 times the standard ones.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:02:05 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
On 24 Jan 00, at 0:00, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Or check the real world. Tank guns back in to old days went up to
> around 90-100 mm. Battleship guns went up to 500 mm. And some of the
> *big* guns went higher than *that* (coast defense, that German monster
> that used shells the size of tanks...)
The biggest battleship guns were the Yamoto's at 18.1" or 460mm.
IIRC one of the German WWII tank destroyers had a 128mm gun.
But that's still a factor of 4 - which (assuming similar ammo) is a
factor of 64 in terms of throw weight.
> Also, read David Drake's "Forlorn Hope" for an example of *why* folks who
> don't have starships *really& don't want to be shooting atr them.
>
> Basicly, a starship gets used as a "megaweapon" to bombard ground
> forces. A new crewman on a merc unit's *big* artillery device happens to
> be sitting at the controls and *recognize* the initial reentry flash. He
> flips the gun to anti-air mode and starts it shooting. It gets a lucky hit
> and *kills* the starship.
>
> This means that the enemy is out a billion credit starship. And they
> aren't happy. The amnesty that gets proclaimed (the ship *did* mangle the
> rebel forces pretty good) *specifically* doesn't include the unit that
> shot down the starship.
>
> The rest of the book is the mercs trying to escape and evade to a
> neutral port so they can get offworld.
If you ask me that's a serious case of bad losers. If you're going to
use a billion dollar starship as a weapons system you should be
willing to accept the fact that you may lose it. Mind you it's a fairly
common attitude - just look at the fuss every time some thrid worlder
manages to shoot down a US Air Force aircraft (never mind what it
was about to do to the thrid worlder and his mates).
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:24:47 -0500
From: "Alvin"
Subject: Madoc history: Before the Third Imperium
History of Madoc Subsector, Part One
Madoc Subsectot history can be divided into four epoch's,
deliminated by the dominant ethicity of the subsector:
pre -4200 Imp : The Pre-Vilani Era
- -4200 to -2233 : The Vilani Era
- -2233 to -300 : The Terran Era
- -300 to present : The Ogadzi Era
The Pre-Vilani Era
Before the discoveries on Base Caprivi (hex 2338) in 1102, there was no
clear
evidence of sentinent life within Madoc subsector before the arrival of the
Vilani.
Not even the Ancients seem to have left behind any relics or ruins, and the
three
systems that contained native life (hex's 1938, 2236, and 2338) had no
species
smarter than the typical Terran housecat.
Recently, researchers on Base Caprivi have found fairly good evidence of
human
settlement in that system up to -5000. Dating the radioactive ruins is a
difficult
business, with conflicting results ranging from -5000 Imperial to one
million years
before the rise of the Third Imperium. What seems most indisputable,
however, is
that there was a settlement of Vilani *and Solomani* humans on this world at
one time, with the population rising into the ten's of millions at one point
before
a sharp, staggered decline into extinction by the time of the Ziru Sirka.
The most substantial and controversial relic found is what appears to be
fragments of a Third Imperium liner, which Caprivi Institute researchers
believe
suffered a chronological misjump over 500 years ago. The ability to jump
forward in time is well known among jumpspace scientists, but the
possibility
to jump backwards is in hot dispute. Many specialists in the field believe
that
the Caprivi Institute is at best misinterpreting the evidence, at worst
trying
to pull off some massive scientific fraud.
The Vilani Era
The earliest record of known Vilani expolration of what would become Madoc
subsector dates back to -4200 Imperial, ~A.D. 320. The Vilani presence in
this
interstellar region was quite limited, due to the lack of trade
opportunities and
worlds friendly to colonization. Over the centuries, however, numerous
terraforming effort's were made, with the first known settlement begun at
Lucy's Diamonds, at around -3900 Imperial, ~A.D. 620. By -3400 the entire
area was offically part of the First Imperium.
Vilani terraforming basically revolved around creating a breathable
atmosphere,
setting up some primitive version of the hydrological cycle (oceans to
clouds
to rain to river to oceans) and providing the foundation for basic
agricultural
crops. No thought was put into designing a "proper" biosphere, and the
few non-crop lifeforms that the Vilani brought to their worlds were either
pests that snuck off the starships or certain plants from Vland, prized for
their medicinal or decorative properties.
Without any non-Vilani sophonts to add excitement, local history was
basically a tale of the rise and fall of various families within the
government and local corporations: the names changed, but nothing
else ever did. The population of this region plateaued at four billion in
total,
with the highest population located on Erkuu [ now Lucy's Diamonds],
at 500 million. The worlds currently called Macedonia, Tyrranus,
DreamSong, Kelvin, and Base Caprivi - all successfully terraformed, in
the Vilani style - also had substantial populations. Several other worlds
were terraformed with less success, for example, the world now known
as Black Seam never has a successful pernament human settlement: it's
native microorganisms were too hostile to human food crops, and even
today (1120 Imperial) it's just not cost-effective to settle.
The large, incredibly graceful structures on the airless world now known
as Steel Spheres were built from -3000 to -2620. Originally mistaken for
Ancient artifacts, these wonderous statues, pillars, domes, and artifical
landscapes have been proven to be actually of Vilani construction. The
financial and cultural resources poured into this world must have been
massive. Psychologically, it's a complete mystery why the stolid,
predictable,
economically-oriented Vilani would build such fantastic engimas of crystal,
stone and metal. By -2500, not only had all construction ceased, but even
the original name of the Vilani world had been lost.
Archeologists have determined that there was a major famine in the area
in the late -2800's (best estimates is -2824 to -2819), resulting in the
death's
of about 60 million people. Apparently, much of the subsector's
agricultural
production was centred on the world now known as NightVision, where
drought conditions ravaged the major food production zones. The Vilani
economy was too rigid to adjust successfully, and even after the drought
ended the subsector's population continued to decline, if quite gradually.
The spreading cancer of Vilani-style decadence ( -3000 to the fall of the
First Imperium at -2219) is believed to have undermined the ability of the
Vilani to properly understand their problems: the few who could learn how
to stop the demographic and economic decline could not successfully act
in the timeworn framework of classical Vilani thought.
The regional military forces, always under-equipped and without any real
mission or plausable enemy, has been a purely ceremonial organization for
centuries. When the Nth Interstellar War hit the area in -2233 [A.D.
2288],
the local military barely rated as a road bump as the Terran Confederation
Navy rolled over them.
The Terran Era
[Note: Terran-decended humans did not refer to themselves as Solomani
until after the founding of the Third Imperium.]
The Terran deliminated the current subsector's borders, and named it
Subsector O, Diaspora Sector. In -2215, the brand-new subsector was
divided up into four military districts, each ruled by a naval officer of
Lt. Commander or Commander rank. By the time of the Terran conquest of
Subsector O, the region's population had fallen to 900 million, with several
systems completely abandoned. When the Rule of Man was proclaimed
in -2204, the local military governours were elevated to Counts, with their
districts becoming feudal counties. One of the Count's was granted the
additional title of Duke over the entire subsector.
The first century of Terran rule went fairly well, with some worlds shaking
off the effect's of long-term stagnation, even daring to modify Vilani
tradition
to meet new needs. However, the self-righteous Terrans continued to
increase their demand's for social change, pushing the pace faster than
the Vilani could tolerate. At -2095 two of the local Count's rebel against
their Duke, starting a two-year war that end's with the death of the Duke
and the sterilization of Erkuu (now Lucy's Diamonds): over 180 million died,
150 million on Erkuu. Despite their military success, however,
the rebel Count's are eventually forced to continue with the Imperial social
"reforms": by -1980 both Count's families had been de-nobled, with their
seat's
given to others.
By -1955, the subsector's population had fallen to 300 million. The local
Duke, with the support of his Count's, decide to subsidise immigrant's from
Terran-populated worlds. Over the next two centuries, over 75 million
Terrans,
would arrive in Subsector O. About 30 million were of Afro-Anglican origin,
and another 30 million of Korean, Korean-Chinese, and Korean-Japanese
decent.
As local civil war's become a chronic plague on the Second Imperium, the
ruling
Duke launched a major stimulus package for his subsector. In this instance
the
spending worked astonishingly well, and for two decades (-1847 to -1827)
The Duchy of Hilroy [ aka Subsector O, renamed Hilroy in -1910 ] becomes the
fastest growing economy in the Second Imperium. Over the following decades
the local economy's economic growth rate falls sharply, but still manages to
keep
it's head above water even as the rest of the Imperium begins to sink into
an
ever-deepening depression.
At -1776 [A.D. 2745] the Second Imperium technically ends: this isn't
obvious
at the time, and especially not at the Duchy of Hilroy, where life continued
as
before. However, with the death of the Duke without an heir at -1742, a
major war
between the two surviving Counts and an upstart Duchy general is fought for
control of the major population centres of Hilroy. The general, Jimmy
Madoc,
successfully play's on the navy-trained Count's mental blindspots regarding
the
ability of ground officers to direct an interstellar war, their general
prejudce against
Army officers, and their inability to properly understand how ground
campaign's
are fought and won.
After emerging victorious form the war in -1738, President Madoc provides an
amnesty for most of his enemies, while 'proscribing' ( killing off ) the
major families
& concerns which still opposed him. He forges ties with a Diaspora Sector
pretender to the Imperial Throne, but when the claimant died in a naval
battle
President Madoc declared independence from the Second Imperium in -1733
[A.D. 2788], "until stability returns to the Rule of Man".
The Madoc Republic dominates the newly renamed Madoc subsector, and even
ruled something between 5 and 20 systems outside of the subsector. The
exact
number depends on the year, and the limited amount of information that
survived
from this time makes the exact extent of Madoc Space hard to determine.
The Madoc dynasty laboured to make their citizen's happy in a somewhat-
successful attempt to increase population growth and encourage
entrepeneurship while solidifying their rule.
At -1638, Teh Shu, the leading corporation in the Madoc Republic, has the
Madoc
family assassinated and siezes Ton'Madoc, the capital of the republic,
located on a
secondary planet of the Kelvin system. The enraged general population -
stiffened
by numerous defectors from the military - successfully destroys the
government
and the Teh Shu Corporation within the year, but the resulting chaos
collapses interstellar trade and commerce in Madoc Space. The ability to
build Jump
engines is lost by ~1625, the last starport is closed on -1588, fusion
technology
is gone by ~1525, and the last recorded starship visit of an inhabited world
is
on Ogodza: the raider was blown out of the sky at -1481[A.D. 3040] by
ground-based nuclear missiles.
The subsector hit's rock bottom at -1380 [~ A.D. 3140] : this is the
generally accepted date of The Inflection, when the subsector's population
and economy finally started to make regular, steady, continous increases for
the first time since
the Ziru Sirka. Only five systems were inhabited at this point of time:
Ogodza 1934 9 million people X986673-7
Kelvin 2340 5 million people X898675-4
Membrane 2037 2 million people X694676-5
Dunaagamir 2333 100,000 people X444506-2
Arrikesh 2040 90,000 people X898432-5
On all of the worlds listed above (excluding Arrikesh) there are entire
continent's
that were teeming with millions two thousand year's ago, which by -1380
[A.D. 3141] were effectively uninhabited. Dunaagamir's population would
continue to decline, eventually dissapearing by the time of the early
Imperium. Arrikkesh went through it's major decline during the First
Imperium: the rigid, unchanging culture remained Exactly The Same since
before the fall of the Ziru
Sirka, even down to the names of the locals. Kelvin went through two
nuclear
wars and a massive technological collapse in a 50-year period (-1485
to -1435) ,
but refused to lay down and die. Membrane warfare centred around modifying
hostile, tough lifeforms with TL B-C genetic engineering tools, and using
these creatures in numerous, ugly wars. By -1450, the living weapons had
became too successful and prolific, forcing the few human survivors to live
in
isolated settlements (think of a rather kinder, gentler version of "War
Against the
Cthorr", a battle against an entire hostile ecosystem designed to kill men).
The Ogodza focused on an endless, bitter series of wars between the
Vilani, Korean, and Afro-Anglican inhabitants. No fraction was strong
enough
to make the killing blow, but all were deeply willing to hurt each other,
even if
there was no actual gain to it. By -1330, however, the warfare had slipped
into ritualism: the respective militaries prefered to spend their vast
budget's on comfortable surroundings and fine medical care for officers and
men,
rather than buying more ammo for the troops or designing better weapons.
This
shift in priorities was bad for military readiness, but good for the economy
of all
three fractions. Over the centuries, however, proper warfare grew back into
vogue on Ogodza, resulting in a sporatic series of nuclear exchanges between
on the world from about -1153 to -1152. Most of the fighting was between
the Korean and Vilani fractions, competing for dominance over the weaker
Afro-Anglicans. The war itself was inconclusive, but the largely undamaged
Afro-Anglicans began to rapidly grow in prominence and cultural influence
over the other two populations.
Against stupendus odds, Kelvin was largely reunited by the Trason Kingdom
by -1300. The dynasty promoted a form of monarchal-rationalist idealism
as the unifying religon of the world: however, it never succeded in
culturally absorbing it's conquests. At around -1000, the Kingdom was
divided up by the dying King into 39 provinces, and given self-government.
Upon his death later
in the same year, the provinces promptly became independent nations: even
token allegence to the ruling dynasty ended by -980.
By -1200, the Membranemen in the surviving eight city-states had grown
sufficently in strength to begin the reconquest of the planet. As the
population
began to grow steadily, the number of independent city-states began to grow,
and as wealth inceased, so did the number of disputes and fight's. The top
cities grew in technology, topping off at TL 7 at -700, and the number of
cities
rose to 60.
Interstellar traders began to again reappear in Madoc Space in the
mid-(-)800's: their first reccorded re-appearance was in the Ogodza sky
at -873 [A.D. 3648]. There was no financial rewards to be found in the
subsector that couldn't be gotten easier elsewhere, so for centuries there
were
no more than two merchantmen in the entire subsector at any given point in
time.
Ogodza eventually became a unified world government at -825 [A.D. 3696],
with the ruling classes strongly encouraging a blend of the local
nationalities to
create a new people, the Ogadzi. While the occasional missionary or
ideologue would arrive at Ogadzi, only the Christian ones really clicked,
mainly because they could easily communicate and converse with native
Christians using the same intellectual framework and language (Calvinism and
Hebrew/Latin/Greek).
After 600 years of total isolation, the local patois of
English/Vilani/Korean
had become simply unrecognizable to outsiders, and like most of the worlds
of Imperial Space had developed a local, distinctive religion which the
locals
would defend against all outworld foreigners. Many worlds still held to the
old Solomani religions, from Christianity to Communism. The majority,
however, followed Vilani practice of worshipping a pantheon of gods,
ancestor
worship, and/or ritualism.
While Ogodza favoured Christianity, Kelvin choose to welcome Gnostic
thinkers from the Old Expanses, reacting against their old rationalism.
Membranemen would tolerate the once-a-year trader, but would violently react
to any critcism of it's beliefs in Vilani ritualism, spritual atheism
("There are no gods, but spirits do exist"), and classic hero-worship.
Arrikesh, of course, are
hard-core Vilani Ritualist's. Dunaagamir had by this time degenerated into
dwindling band's of illiterate hunter-gatherers: no written record of their
belief's exists.
Kelvin grew into a highly mystical society, focused on gnostic philosophy
and the
transcendance of mind over inferior matter. A brutal combination of
drought's and
plague (striking in waves, -890 to -826) killed over 2/3rd's of the
population, and
effectively destroying the Vilani peoples on that world: unlike earlier
times, however,
there was a quick recovery, with the old population levels regained by
the -730s:
no technology was lost.
Ogodza had a major flowering of culture between -700 to -400: as the
population soared, so did the tech levels ( TL 8 by -600, 9 by -500,
A by -400 ). The first starport in the subsector in over 800 years was built
here
in -589. Originally built to help in Christian missionary work, the C-class
port
soon became a hub of local trade, as more and more traders began to appear
in Madoc Space. The first traders from the Sylean Federation was spotted
here, in -552.
Membrane's population also jumped during this era, with the number of
independent city-states rising to about 570 while the TL rose to 9 by -400.
There were world-wide celebrations when the first locally-build jump ship
returned successfully to the planet, in -402. By -350, population growth
had
levelled off at the 100 million mark, as numerous city-states began to build
their
own D- and C-class port to accomodate increasing trade. The six largest and
most wealthiest cities each had their own B-class port, complete with
orbital docking station.
On Kelvin, most warfare was restricted to border shifting, raiding, and
internal uprisings for centuries, but a new military leader led a coup
against his democratic government, and aggressively pursued a strategy of
global conquest
from -319 onward. This kicked off a major cycle of world wars, major
diplomatic activity, some great art and a rise of technology from TL 4 to 5
(-300) to 6 (-250). By -300, the New Kelvin League ruled about 1/4 of
the world's surface, and half of it's population.
Alvin Plummer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:14:56 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: The Traveller Adventure
At 05:38 pm 1/25/00 -0600, you wrote:
>I don't have "The Traveller Adventure", there wasn't such a thing
when I
>bought my first printing LLB's and AFAIK, it wasn't ever
published
>separately...or was it? If so, does anyone have an idea where I
could
>find it?
Well, you could probably find it in my boxes in storage if you
looked hard enough ... and were bulletproof.
- -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft
product.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:35:34 +0800
From: "Colin the Evilest Dolphin in the South Seas"
Subject: [OT} Quokkas
Quokkas are small marsupials (mammals with pouches) that are most notably
present on Rottnest Isalnd off Perth Western Australia. Picture of a
quokka: http://members.tik.com.au/dwellcop/quokka.htm
********************************************************
Colin Clark
For RPG stuff including:
Hong Kong 2028 Campaign and
HERO bits & pieces
see http://www.iinet.net.au/~astroboy
********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:27:41 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: The Traveller Adventure
On 25 Jan 00, at 17:38, Eris Reddoch wrote:
> I don't have "The Traveller Adventure", there wasn't such a thing when I
> bought my first printing LLB's and AFAIK, it wasn't ever published
> separately...or was it? If so, does anyone have an idea where I could
> find it?
IIRC it was published at the same time as _The Traveller Book_, and
in the same format. The cover of the rules book had a blue title area,
the adventure, red.
AFIAK they were sold seperately. As for how to get one, I'm sorry
but I haven't a clue (and no you can't have mine - actually it's a
friends, anyway).
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:43:21 -0500
From: "Alvin"
Subject: Madoc history: The Imperium, The Ogadzi and the JumpLords
History of Madoc Subsector, Part Two
By -250, the conqueror's adoptive grandson ruled over 1/3 of Kelvin's
land, and the League's TL had risen to 6, with the rebuilding of nuclear
weapons and reactors. However, the ruler was poisoned by his children
in -230, and eventually the empire eventually broke into infighting
fragments. The situation slowly deteriorated as the fragment's broke
up into yet smaller fragments. At -211, one of the rulers decided put a
stop to this, and decided to nuke one of her own cities rather than let it
secede from her government. A neighbouring state overreacted,
half the nations decided to "use it or lose it", and in two day's 20% of
Kelvin's population was dead or dying, and another 20% died over the
next five years. By -150 the aftereffects were finally settling down, and
the population decline ended at around the 90 million mark, and even
started to rise a bit.
On Ogodza, the three major cultures had merged into one by -300.
The first locally built jumpship was up and running by -372, and
Ogadza' interstellar presence quickly dominated Madoc trade.
The system in hex 1933 was settled at -372, and renamed Zion.
With the shift to TL B in -200, Ogadzi culture, wealth and power
made another quantum leap up. System 2031 was settled
in -181, and named Kaesong. Inevitably, the Ogadzi Dominion was
proclaimed in -173, the first interstellar state in Madoc Space in over
1400 years. By about -100, the first largely accurate maps of every
worlds and moon in the subsector since the death of the beloved
Madoc dynasty became available to the Ogadzi public. They also
started major interventions in the life other major world's, contributing
heavily in Kelvin's rebuilding in the name of Christian charity.
The government's of Kelvin accepted the gifts eagerly, but were not
in the slightest grateful: government's rarely are. The typical private
citizen was more appricative, but was still suspicious of the powerful
Ogadzi.
Inhabited subsector systems, Year 0 Imperial [ ~ A.D. 4520]
Ogodza 1934 900 million people A986885-B
Kelvin 2340 100 million people E898875-6
Membrane 2037 100 million people B694873-A
Dunaagamir 2333 3,000 people X444300-0
Arrikesh 2040 90,000 people X898432-5
Colonies of the Ogadzi Dominion:
Kaesong 2031 500 people E110264-A
Zion 1933 7 million people D448666-A
The Ogadzi Dominion first heard of the new Third Imperium in 032-0001.
The ruling judges and family lords feared that this new Imperium would
be some kind of revivial of stifling Vilani rule, and grimly began designing
and
building 500-, 1000-, and 10,000-disp warships. Moreover, they sent out
diplomatic feelers to the Membrane city-states to sign on to some kind of
mutual defence pact, but the city-states could not come to any consensus.
The Ogadzi government was not formally contacted by the Imperium,
not did any IISS ship show up in Dominion space. The Ogadzi continued to
work on settling new worlds in the rimward half of the subsector, putting
new colony's on Macedonia (1739), Rushdoony (1740), Chalcedon (1838),
and Mordecai (2338).
Envious of Oragzi colonies, the major city-states of Membrane began to
intensely colonize their home system, focusing on the terraforming of the
world of Riverside, a Venus-style hothouse world. Several A-class ports
were built: they were definitely on the small side, but still had the
ability to
build jump-capable starships. Moreover, the various nations began various
interstellar ventures, with tiny new city-states on Systems 1938, 2134,
2236,
and 2338. No names are provided, as every city-state gave a different name
to every world and system.
Note that System 2338 was also settled by the Ogadzi, under the name
Mordecai. The Ogadzi and the three local city-states were of fairly equal
strength: even so, the occasional land war would flair up, and die off just
as
quickly.
As the young Third Imperium began to investigate Rimward space, a small
task force of 20 scout vessels began the exploration of Madoc subsector in
the 110's. Wary of provoking Imperial power (the Pacification Wars were
still
going on), most of the local governments carefully welcomed the Scouts. The
Ogadzi Dominion, however, insisted that the IISS notify them whenever they
entered Dominion space, and provide an itinerary of their destinations and
activity's. Moreover, the Dominion would stick an individual Minder to
every
Scout, to supervise their activities. This was primarily used as a way of
protecting Dominion soverignty, as well as keeping the Scouts under
survellance and restricting what they saw and were they went.
The much-feared Solomani Pacification Campaign failed to materialize:
instead, the Imperial Diplomatic Corps send a mission to the
Ogadzi Dominon and the various governments of Kelvin and Membrane.
The reception of the ambassadors on Ogodza is cool but respectful, on
Kelvin suspicious, and on Membrane enthusiastic. Each city-state
worked to befriend the Imperium, then tried to get the Imperium involved
in local politic's on their side. Throughout the 200's the Imperium get's
ensnared in local strife, but by the end of the century they basically pull
out as they received no gain for all the money and blood they put
into the world.
By 140, Kelvin was divided into two bipolar power blocks, with the
crucial issue being either pro or anti-interstellar trade. The pro-trade
fraction won the economic argument, but the anti's resisted absorption
until the late 190's, when a sudden shift in elite opinion swiftly brought
all nations into one bureaucratic world-state. With the rise of external
trade came an increase of prestige of the Christian religion, as opposed
to native Gnosticism. By 250, the local government proclaimed itself
'offically' Christian, and increased relations with other subsector
Christian
states. As Madoc subsector became mired in civil war and piracy, Kelvin
focused on developing it's home system and improving on the original Vilani
terraforming of Kelvin herself. The system's economy and science benefited
from this development, with the system hitting TL A in 210 and B at 280.
The old Madoc Republic capital of Ton'Madoc, lost for over 1,500 years,
was rediscovered on the world of Ampere (in Kelvin's solar system)
and restored to it's former glory. Kelvin's prosperous population hit 1
billion
in 400 Imperial: to celebrate, Kelvin's name was changed to Ahava, meaning
"Love" in Hebrew.
Ogodza's economic growth, good as it is, barely kept up with the growing
population: ten's of millions, mainly from the upper and upper-middle
classes, emigrate to the colonial systems. From the 210's onwards,
the Ogadzi Dominion grows greatly in political corruption as the
supposedly impartial judges begin to intellectually rig their decision's
to always favour the colonies over the mainworld. When knowledge of
this fraud becomes public knowledge in 237 [A.D. 4758 ], the Dominion
government was swiftly discredited and destroyed.
Ogodza fell into a depression, and the planet began to break up into
independent stated from 244 onwards. By around 300, the process
reversed itself, but it still took a century of warfare for the leading
alliance to reunify the planet. During this era of warfare, disease,
poverty and famine scythed population relentlessly. When the Ogadzi
was finally reunified in 392 [ A.D. 4913 ], the system population was at
50 million from a high of 2 billion at 240, with the TL falling from D to A.
After the collapse of the Dominion government at 237, the six colonies
had to fend for themselves. Two colonies, Rushdoony and Mordecai, failed.
Mordecai was conquered in 247 by local Membrane cultures and it's population
assimilated. Rushdoony was conquered by a Solomani Rim interstellar state
- - the Principality of Gerar - and it's enslaved population transported to
the
central systems of the Principality. The Principality itself suffered a
depresion
in 247, and abandoned the now-uninhabited Rushdoony system to the Void.
Macedonia went thru a number of governments, mainly different monarchies
and arisocratic republics. In the late 330's, thirty-seven of the smaller
families
conspired secretly to overthrow the ruling Manag'sa dynasty. The King was
eventually forced to flee in 345 [ A.D. 4866 ], and the other major families
either
exiled or dead by 350. The victor's, rather than create anothe noble-based
government, decided to build a single, tightly limited civil service as the
final
authority between the families: the Coyne Compact, declared in 353, proved
remarkably successful and has influenced all Ogadzi government's since then.
[Aside: House Manag'sa eventually entered Imperial space, and successfully
petitioned Emperor Anguistus for a noble patent as a Baron. An enduring
noble
line, at 1120 they hold two Baronies and are influential in the Sector
Duke's
government : currently they have no holdings in Madoc subsector, and the
family's form of Christianity is different than the dominant Imaya
denomination
in Madoc.]
Chalcedon had a different destiny. During the fall of the Dominion the
appointed governour proclaimed his alligence to the outed government,
and accepted tens of thousands of refugees and fleeing officals. As the
settlement's water supply became overstressed, the government became a
harsh tyranny as the lives of the resident's became tightly controlled.
After a major rebellion was crushed in 247, the government went thru an
ugly purge, renaming itself The Tyrannus in 249 [ A.D. 4770 ]. The world
itself was renamed after the government within the same year.
The ruling Tyrant deliberately turned his government's back on
interstellar Ogadzi culture, nurturing instead an intense local nationalism,
a very strict morality, and a heavy stress on the virtues of Law, Duty,
Blood,
Water, and Purity. These ideas, "The Way of the Tyrant", had a profound
impact on local culture, and continues to influence local thought to the
present day [1120 Imperial / A.D. 5541 ].
Zion had an unusually strong set of system defences, built with a war
against the Imperium in mind. As the Dominion disintergrated, the
Zion garrison quickly occupied Kaesong Colony and declared independence.
The original military junta eventually gave way to a "Elected for
Life"-style
dictatorship. The elctorate was drawn from the leadership of the military,
wealthy families, clergy, academia, and famous poets and artists.
The dictator was given no special title but - within certain unwritten
limits - his word was law for a fixed 25 year term.
Various pirate groups were attracted to the chaos and lawlessness of
Madoc subsector at this time, and began moving in from Imperial space.
The Zion military fought the pirates - called "The JumpLords" - for control
of Kaesong throughout the 3rd and 4th Imperial centuries, finally losing
Kaesong for good in 388. By 400, the Kaesong population soared to 35,000,
primarily consisting of pirates; their tech support; brokers, dealer's and
fences;
additional family members and personal slaves; and various other camp
followers. The other ex-Dominon systems suffered severe raiding until
about 300, and only sporatic piracy after that: not enough to kill the
golden goose, but enough to milk local trader's regularly and often.
The Membrane colonies, with weaker defences and internal divisions,
suffered much more: by 320 every Membrane colony had died off, and
the JumpLords deliberately prevented re-colonization.
System 1938 was never a successful colony world, and struggled to
survive until 317. In that year, a pirate ship, angered by the
ill-treatment
they recieved, decided against nuking the tiny city-states. Instead, they
chased down and killed every single settler from their air/rafts and grav
cycles, as well as burning every building and stealing everything that
wasn't
nailed down.
System 2134's economy was wrecked by infighting and piracy. The
various settlements just got poorer and poorer. Eventually, everyone
emigrated, with the very last families selling themselves into slavery in
order to get offworld.
The settlements on system 2236 simply dissapeared sometime in 311.
Archeological and forensic evidence suggest's that a crop failure and the
spoilage of the stored food supplies decimated the small colonies on that
world. When famine struck, certain diseases probably brought
in by visitors at the "starport" slaughtered the weakened colonists.
As the number and health of the colonist's dwindled, the ability to
maintain vital machinery was lost. The last settler's apparently died
in a futile attempt to forage edible food from the countryside.
System 2338 had conquered the Ogadzi settlers by 247. The system
was unified under one government by 261, and was quite supportive
of the JumpLord pirates when they arrived. The pirates liked the idea
of a reliable ally, and eventually transported the entire colony back to
Membrane, to rule a major city-state that the pirates had conquered.
By 310 the system was completely abandoned.
The chaos within the subsector opened the gates for organized
piracy to take the subsector by storm, eventually centering around
Membrane as their near-offical residence. The local city-states swiftly
hired starmerc's to fend off the pirates, but the starmerc's themselves went
rouge, soon becoming powerful enough to conquer a few dozen of the
weaker city-states and eventually becoming JumpLords themselves.
The rich source of funding provided by the corpse of the Dominion
dried up by the early 300's, but by that time the JumpLords
- - now very well organized, and obtaining the trappings of respectability -
were strong enough to dominate the piracy field in the rimward half of
Diaspora, and were beginning to expand into the Imperial half
to coreward.
The Imperial Navy successfully defeated the JumpLord's attempt's to
enter Imperial space, but didn't go on the offensive till the early 340's.
It choose to use the few pro-Imperial city-states still on Membrane as
proxies for a series of war's against the JumpLords, backed with Imperial
money and advisors. The Imperium decided against involving the
Imperial Navy directly, to avoid angering various nearby states. The
pro-Imperial forces are generally victorious on the ground, but fail to
successfully drive off the JumpLord's from the planet. The JumpLords,
in turn, have rather weak armies but technological superiority and
superior starship's and crews. They avoided using their starship's
for bombardment, however, for fear of provoking the Imperial
government into sending a Naval Task Force across 20 parsec's,
regardless of cost or diplomatic consequences.
Eventually the Sector Duke decided to declare a "moral victory",
and wound down the proxy war at 356 - 358 Imperial. The local
pro-Imperial city-states quickly make peace with the JumpLords.
The JumpLords, in turn, sell off most of their ships and hunting
ranges to subordinate pirate groups, and use the money to make
themselves the chief grey/black market financiers and
deal makers in Diapsora Sector.
A similar proxy war was again attempted in the 370's, but with poorer
result's than the first conflict: even the Imperium's supposed allies
were working with the pirates on the side. As the war dissolved into
a blame game among the Imperium's erstwhile allies, the Imperium itself
came to an informal agreement with the JumpLords, with a greater
willingness to 'go easy' on captured pirates, in return for fewer ship's
destroyed and civilian's killed.
Alvin Plummer
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1815
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, January 25 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1816
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Norse religion (Was: Traveller varients of Christianity)
Madoc history: Imperial Conquest
Not Really Norse Days
Beanstalks
Re: Psionics
Trav-Tech list
Re: Psionics
Re: Not Really Norse Days
Re: Not Really Norse Days
Re: Official Dice Subthread 2000...
Re: 1D11
Re: Norse religion
Re: Psionics
Re: Not Really Norse Days
Re: Norse religion
Re: Gearhead lists
Re: Armed Kangeroos...
THUDDD News
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:39:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton
Subject: Re: Norse religion (Was: Traveller varients of Christianity)
Howdy!
Jens wrote:
>
> As a side note, many of the names of the Norse gods (and other period
> names) remain in our culture today. They are quite common. I have yet to
> meet a person called Oden (that would have been considered Hybris at the
> time), but several other names are common (partial listing):
>
One of the early governors of the state of Maryland (I'm not sure if this
would be pre- or post-1776) was named Oden Bowie, from which one gets the
name of the city I live in as well as the nearby town of Odenton.
I'm suddenly curious about the origin of Oden as a given name...
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:56:26 -0500
From: "Alvin"
Subject: Madoc history: Imperial Conquest
History of Madoc Subsector Part Three
Inhabited subsector systems, Year 400 Imperial [ ~ A.D. 4920]
Ogodza 1934 50 million people D986796-A
Ahava 2340 1,000 mllion people B898997-B
Membrane 2037 256 million people A694875-B
Kaesong 2031 35,000 people D110400-B
Arrikesh 2040 90,000 people X898432-5
Macedonia 1739 1,438,000 people EA84684-A
Tyrannus 1838 92,000 people D4615BB-B
Zion 1933 7 million people D448666-A
At 411, the Sector Duchess of Diaspora obtained permission from
Emperor Martin III - arguably the greatest Emperor in the history of
the Imperium - to complete the incorporation of Diaspora Sector into
Imperial territory. The tempo of Diplomatic, Scout, Naval, and Corporate
activity increases extensively in Madoc subsector, with the pirate haven
of Kaesong the first system "invited" to join the Imperium by a small
Imperial fleet, in 413. All pirate asset's found were seized, local
buccanner's
that were caught were tried and promptly shot, and the place slapped
under martial law as the newly-appointed Duke (who also was the new
Subsector Admiral) moved in.
Imperial emissaries went to the JumpLords 'captial', GoldenBoy Station,
a class-A port orbiting Membrane. The diplomat's offered them decent
surrender terms if they would betray their partner's in crime. The
JumpLords responded by mailing portions of the emissaries' corpses
back to the Emperor, with suggestions on what the Emperor
could do with his kind offer. They also encouraged the lesser pirate
lords to start aggressive, no-holds-barred pirating throughout
Imperial-held Diaspora, just as a reminder why it's better to deal
politely with the JumpLords.
The Imperium organized convoys to protect merchant shipping,
and dispersed much of Imperial Navy to defend as much territory
as possible. A thin-skinned pirate ship, even if armed with nukes is
easy to kill, *if* the warship is at the right place when the pirate
leaves jumpspace. In the meantime, the fleet at Kaesong was
beefed up with additional Marine and "Imperial Army" regiments
and transports. [1]
As the pirate attack's against Imperial worlds was being snuffed, the
upgraded subsector fleet was sent to Membrane in 414 with the new
subsector Duke as it's commander. [2] The Imperial force demanded the
surrender of *all* space-capable craft and space stations insystem: those
who refused to surrender were destroyed remorselessly. After that bit of
unpleasentness, the Duke demanded every city-state and every inhabited
world surrender to the Imperium. Over one-half of the 800 or so
city-states refused to surrender.
The enemy cities were divided into two groups: important and high-value
cities were invaded and conquered by Imperial armoured regiments, while
low-value cities were gassed and leveled with heavy orbital strikes when
the Imperial troop's didn't require orbital support. The Duke didn't care
to render any of *his* worlds radioactive, and preferred meson and
close-in particle-beam fire for most of the work, with the occasional
"clean" nuclear air burst, as well as the rare neutron nuclear burst
("Kill all the people, but spare the buildings and leave the environment
largely intact.")
After about six hours of this, every "low-value" city had surrendered to
the Imperium. After reports started arriving about the extensive use of
Thor weaponry (hypervelocity spikes from orbit), the destruction of
every resisting air force on the world, and the use of low-yield nuke's by
Imperial Marines to clear out those stubborn patches of resistance,
many the major cities simply threw in the towel as well. The most trouble
that the invader's ran into was not with the pirates - they didn't like to
waste their ill-gotten gains buying many expensive underground meson
emplacements, and in general preferred to hide and flee than stand and die.
Instead, the major problem was with patrotic natives who simply
would not surrender. The Duke preferred to grant them good terms to
encourage surrender, but failing that, he would go ahead and kill their
city:
Membrane WILL be taken for the Imperium, with whatever tool's are available.
The ground war lasted three week's, with two of those week's consisting
of the Imperial Army hunting down every last dug-in meson site. Only
1/10th of the population was killed, about 27 million people. Quite a light
level of civilian caualities, as these things go. [3]
After the war, Imperial Navy medic's and construction crews provided
what help they could to the devastated local's, but the fleet was soon
called back to Kaesong, and the Imperial forces left, leaving behind five
garrison regiment's and a small flotilla. The main fleet were broken down
to squadrons (with each squadron having a ground component) and the
Duke's forces swept the entire subsector several times looking for
pirates to kill. By 417 the operation was considered a success, and
the power of the JumpLords declared broken.
From 416 onward Imperial corporations and diplomat's encouraged local
government's to sign on as Imperial worlds, stressing the financial benefits
and the military wisdom of having the Imperial Navy as a friend, rather than
as a stranger. The Ogadzi worlds were to be given aid with restoring their
damaged economies, while the important world of Ahava was told that it
would become an expanded economic hub, benefitting from trade with the
entire quadrant (the four subsectors of The Blight, Promise, Madoc and
Khulam which occupied the rimward/trailing part fo Diaspora.)
By 435 half of the systems of the subsector were Imperial, and by 470
only Ahava remained outside of Imperial control. At 479 - while the
world of Ahava was celebrating the 5000th year anniversary of Jesus'
birth - an ambitious Imperial noble house engineered a coup on Ahava,
swiftly supported by secretly transported household troops and a
treasonous local grav tank regiment. Immediately after they took
control of the capital buildings, they swore feality to Cleon IV, and
requested his aid to suppress all antiImperial forces in Ahava
System. Several Imperial warships, hiding out dangerously close to
the local sun, came in bearing the colours of the noble house and fought
a pitched battle against local system defenders. The Imperials were
defeated both in space and on the ground, but several week's later
warships and troop transport's bearing the Imperial Starburst arrived
insystem, spearheading the invasion of Ahava.
The Imperials valued Ahava highly as the only undamaged world in
the subsector, having a high tech level locally, a very good series of
starports (including two large class-A's), several insystem colonies,
and most of the population in Madoc subsector. Therefore, city
bombardment was decided against, and a heavy troop commitment was
provided both to limit damage and to increase the military prestige of
the Third Imperium across rimward space. Ahava had colonized it's
home system extensively (moons, planet's and space stations),
so all of the Imperial Marine regiment's available in Diaspora would be
put to use here, as well as most of the better Army regiment's
in the sector.
The Imperium first took the world of Ampere, as a staging area for the
attack on Ahava herself. Despite continual harrassment from
Ahava's Starfleet, the world was taken largely intact, and a month was
spent in preparation before the main strike on 200-0479. The Second
Imperial Battle of Ahava was the largest and most furious space battle
in the history of the subsector, ever. Despite inflicting the loss of
several
Imperial battleships and scores of lesser ship's of the line, the Starfleet
was forced to retire from the field, and the invasion of Ahava itself
began as soon as the Starfleet began to retreat.
Due to the rather rigourous Rules of Engagement, the conquest of
Ahava was more costly to Imperial troopers than any other Imperial
conflict in Madoc to date. Ahavan commanders quickly intuited the
self-imposed restrictions that the Imperium placed on the conflict, and
pushed the unoffical rules to their advantage while being careful not to
use any NBC-style weapons themselves. After two month's
of hard fighting, the Imperium called for a truce, and persuaded the
Ahavan's to recognize the authority of the Imperial government over the
system: in return, the native government would continue to rule their
current insystem territories unmolested, and a local family chosen by
the Ahavan Federation of Worlds would become the Imperial Marquis
of the system.
[1] Actually, regiment's on 'loan' from Imperial worlds in Promise,
Alvrza,
and Sufren subsectors: the assault transport's were provided by the Imperial
Navy, but the bulk of the transport's was charted from local shipping lines.
[2] The Admiral in question had already provided valuable service to
the Imperium. He was provided with the title "Duke of Madoc", and
expected to *earn* his property via conquest. Failure would be punished
by removal of the title.
[3] Usually the Imperium, like all other multisystem governments, find it
much
cheaper to use "weapons of mass destruction" as a force multiplier than to
transport the vast number's of men and material needed to conquer a planet:
the logistic's of simply obtaining all those heavy civilian transports would
cause havoc with even the most prosperous interstellar economy. However,
in 414 there were transport's and regiment's to spare for a formal invasion,
luckily for the Membranemen. It's important to remember that the Marines
and the Imperial Army is the arm of *restraint* when it comes to intestellar
war: only the wealthiest economies like the Imperium and the Zhodani
Consulate can use them in substantial numbers across the stars.
Of course, the extensive use of troops provides an advantage by implicitly
making poorer enemies very hesitant to use cost-effective nukes etc, less
the already more powerful Imperium simply let's loose, also. Larger
interstellar governments can more easily bear the cost of conventional
warfare across the parsec's, and suffer less if everyone takes the gloves
off.
Alvin Plummer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:13:38 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Not Really Norse Days
From: Jens Rydholm
>> Give me the Nordic days any old time!
>
> I might be overly zealous here, but you've got some of the days
> wrong.
I think what Mr. Eaglestone *meant* to say was:
"Give me the Egyptian days, borrowed and renamed by Rome, then set loose
across the heart of continental Europe, where the various Germanic tribes
renamed them to more appropriate names (sticking close to the Roman
pattern), which were then later reordered slightly by Christians to match
the Hebrew calendar."
Ahem... My apologies. I don't mean to speak for Robert there! :)
The short version:
The Egyptians came up with the seven day week, based on the idea that a
different god / celestial object ruled each individual hour. Each day was
named after the god / celestial object which ruled the first hour of that
day. I forget the Egyptian names for the celestial objects and I can't be
sure if they were exactly the same as the gods which they worshipped
otherwise. Please pardon my ignorance of ancient egyptian astrology. So,
I'll just stick with the Roman names. The order of the days was the day of
Saturn, the day of Sol, the day of Luna, the day of Mars, the day of
Mercury, the day of Jupiter and finally, the day of Venus.
Before that, the Egyptians had a ten day week, just like the Greeks. When
the Greeks heard about the seven day week, they were largely unimpressed.
The use of the seven day week did spread throughout the Persian Empire,
however.
Then, along came the Romans. Around 1 AD or so, Soldiers stationed in Egypt
brought the use of the seven day week back to Rome. It didn't really catch
on among most of the Roman citizens, and the use of the standard eight day
business week continued.
The soldiers continued to use it though, and the various tribes that they
fought, conquered and dealt with in different ways picked up its use. Europe
at large rather liked it, and the various Germanic tribes attached their own
gods to the days. The gods of the Germanic people were pretty similar to the
gods / planets which the Romans had, so it was a very simple matter to
translate Roman versions to Germanic versions.
The Emperor Constantine made the seven day week law, which got the whole of
the Roman empire using it. Incidentally, a number of other cultures,
apparently independently, came up with the same connection. Those cultures
which didn't picked it up from the Persian empire or the Roman empire.
The order of the days in the West was changed slightly to match the Hebrew
week in the middle ages when the Jewish Sabbath was "rediscovered" by the
Christians. Sunday became the first day, the Lord's day.
> > (Sun Day)
>
> Söndag (possibly a referrence to "söner" ("sons"), I don't know)
It *does* come from Sun Day, actually, at least the early Germanic roots.
Over the course of roughly 1800 years (and what, at least a dozen different
languages?) it's easy to see how it might have mutated. :)
> > Frigga's Day
>
> Actually Frej's day (Fredag), not Freja's (Frigga's in English).
The names were anything but standardized. Some identified Venus with the
goddess Freyja, some with Frigga (I'm using the Old English style names
here). The tribes which would go on to create English picked Frigga, but
your own tribe may have been different. :)
> > (Saturn's Day)
>
> Saturn was a Roman god... the Nordic name for Saturday is Lördag
> (which is a short form of an archaic way of saying "washing day"... a
> bit less glamorous)
To some Germanic folks, the day of Saturn became the day of Loki (or a
proto-Loki). I'd love to see where the day of Loki became the day of
washing, or if it's in any way connected at all :)
Some of the other Germanic tribes who were introduced to the calendar were
terribly unoriginal, and so some of us are stuck with plain old Saturday.
The Norse folks happened to keep the old gods alive. Modern English folk
etymology makes the claim that the names are Norse, since the Names of the
Norse gods are in everyone's minds, but that's just 'cause the English
forgot where *they* came from! :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:10:12 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Beanstalks
At 8:00 AM +0000 1/25/2000, SD Mooney wrote:
>At 0:16 -0500 25/1/00, Glenn St-Germain wrote:
>>ObTrav: how do beanstalks fit in with Traveller tech? Are they common?
>>Rare but not unknown? Completely theoretical? This past weekend my
>>Traveller game wound up at Capital (just in time to watch Dulinor get
>>blowed up real good -- it's GURPS Traveller), and the players figured
>>that if any planet in the Imperium had one, it'd be Capital, so I said
>>"why not?" and gave it one... But are there any canon references to one?
>>And if not, how likely are they?
Beanstalks are tremendously expensive and given the ease of transporting
goods to orbit using reactionless thrusters and contragravity they seem
kind of excessively dangerous for the relative lack of benefit. A
beanstalk accident could do serious damage to a planets ecology (and
population) and isn't something to risk lightly.
Bolie IV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:36:09 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Psionics
Luther Martin wrote:
>
>
>
> What about this defense against teleporting Zhodani commandoes? You randomly
> cycle the artificial gravity on your ship over a range of about plus or
> minus 1% (or whatever range it takes to get the desired effect) around the
> comfortable 1 g. If your commando is on a planet's surface, he can't change
> elevation much without having to worry about the effects of changing
> potential energy. On a ship with artificial gravity, the same principle must
> apply, but we are now changing the gravity instead. So it will be likely
> that a commando who teleports onto your ship will likely be fried in some
> unpleasant way.
>
> Are there any obvious problems with this strategy?
I think there is a problem here. Unless you can get your artificial
gravity field to encompass the 'porter's starting position, changing
your artificial gravity shouldn't appreciably affect his/her/its
potential energy.
OTOH, random changes in _vectors_ might have a deleterious effect on
teleporters, either by causing them to miss the spot (ouch!) or by
(possibly) changing their potential energy in one direction or the
other. (My initial assumption is that teleporting from ship to ship
requires the 'porter's ship to match vectors with the target. However,
I could be wrong.)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:38:26 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Trav-Tech list
It's still up and running....
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:57:39 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Psionics
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote
> Protecting against clairvoyance SHOULD protect against teleportation into
> an area that you have never been in.
Yes but what if you have been there before or
you are desperate?
Does psi shielding on a room protect against activity
_originating_ in its area (teleporting out), against
activity _entering_ its area (teleporting in), or
against activity _within_ its area (teleporting within
the shielded area)? Is it some combination of the
above?
Suppose Imperial forces have captured an Zhodani
Commando. They have put her in a cell with a Psi
Shield on it, but have not drugged her into unconsciousness
(perhaps they wish to interrogate her). Can she teleport
out to a location she is already familiar with?
Can she teleport out blind if she's willing to take
the risk?
Can one of her fellow Commando's, who is familiar
with the room because she too was held there last
month, teleport into the room to rescue her?
Suppose you are handcuffed to a chair in a psi shielded
room. Can you teleport out of the cuffs as long as you
stay within the room?
Does psionic shielding require a physical material
or can it cover short gaps? [Note that the canonical psi
shield helmet is not sealed at the bottom (which would
require the decapitation of its wearer), so Psi shielding
probably can cover short gaps.] Does the psionic shielding
on your cell have to come down so you can get a meal through
a food slot? [I'd say that an open slot might stop psionic
shielding from working but a drum type slot (similar to
night deposit boxes at banks) would not stop the psi
shielding from working.]
The Ref needs to know these answers ahead of time, as should
the psionic PC (unless they were not adequately trained).
> One wouldn't want to teleport into a wall.
PC's can be desperate and or foolhardy sometimes.
> IIRC you can't use telekinesis on something that you cannot see.
I think that the literal definition might be more like
cannot _sense_. I would not have any problems with a
K'Kree psionic being able to teleport to any area they
could smell well for instance. IIRC this is the definition
used in at least one version of the rules.
What if you are watching something on TV? Suppose I'm
telekinetic and I'm watching a live TV political
broadcast; can I reach through the screen to teke their
heart? [As Gil Hamilton did in Niven's Known Space, but
Traveller is not the Ringworld/Known Space universe.]
Of course teeking the inside of someone's body is a hard
trick so you might simply strangle them to death
with their necktie. [Which is a good reason for Imperial
fashion to have abandoned the necktie.]
I'd say that the inability to affect things you can
not sense is a strong argument for psi shields stopping
clairvoyance so as to deter telekinesis.
Of course _range_ costs for psi will make most uses of
psi at long range prohibitive most of the time for
most psionics (who are not using psi drugs).
[For those of you using GURPS there are answers to these
questions in GURPS Psionics but you may still wish to
use answers from previous versions of Traveller to help
preserve the look and feel of Traveller.]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:17:21 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers"
Subject: Re: Not Really Norse Days
>The Egyptians came up with the seven day week
I thought evidence showed that the 7day week came from an earlier period.
It was in use in the Fertile Crescent, very early on.
TV
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:22:35 -0600
From: "Thomas Vickers"
Subject: Re: Not Really Norse Days
Here's a link on the 7 day week
http://www.cool-fact.com/archive/2000/01/21.html
Even More
http://www.webexhibits.com/calendars/week.html
TV
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:30:53 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Official Dice Subthread 2000...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Eaglestone
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 4:55 AM
Subject: Official Dice Subthread 2000
>
> It is possible, though perhaps difficult, to make
> an irregular, eleven-sided die, with different
> face sizes so that the side probabilities are,
> roughly,
>
> 3%
> 5.5%
> 8%
> 11%
> 13%
> 16%
> 13%
> 11%
> 8%
> 5.5%
> 3%
>
> ...in other words, a die that has the same
> probabilities as 2d6!!! Tell me now, wouldn't
> that be cool?
>
Cool, but probably a real pain in the arse to make one unbiased?
- -- The Roc
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:29:01 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: 1D11
On 01/21/00 at 06:05 PM, "Thom Harris" said:
>Hmmm, I thought he meant just using the ace (1) through the jack (11),
>mix them up, lay them face down and then pull one card.
You could do that. However, a uniform distribution of 1 to 11
doesn't match the normal distribution of 2 d6's. I just meant draw
two cards from a deck composed of 1 through 6's...or better yet roll
to dice!
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 04:43:13 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Norse religion
Jens Rydholm writes:
>>Frigga's Day
>
>Actually Frej's day (Fredag), not Freja's (Frigga's in English).
Frigg and Freja are two different goddesses. Frigg the Wise is Odin's wife.
Freja is Frej's sister, one of the Vanir.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
(after Tom Lehrer)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:49:51 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Psionics
>From: "Luther Martin"
...
>What about this defense against teleporting Zhodani commandoes? You randomly
...
>that a commando who teleports onto your ship will likely be fried in some
>unpleasant way.
>
>Are there any obvious problems with this strategy?
Well, it does tie in nicely with the KKM thread :|
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:44:05 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Not Really Norse Days
From: Thomas Vickers
> I thought evidence showed that the 7day week came from an earlier
> period. It was in use in the Fertile Crescent, very early on.
Whoops. My apologies. What I meant to say, or at least clarify was the
current Western seven day week. I was trying to get that post done in time
to watch "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?" and I neglected to check it when I
was done. Tsk-tsk. Sloppy on my part.
Some of the various fertile crescent civilizations used a seven day
calendar. So did some folks in India and Tibet, if my memory serves me.
Obviously, so did the Hebrews. There are quite a few ways to arrive at a
seven day week. However, the path from the Egyptian seven day week (which
seems to begin with the Egyptians) and the modern Western seven day week is
pretty solid, and I tend to stick with it. :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:46:29 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Norse religion
>There's something that impresses me about Traveller:
>its calendar is antiseptic, sterile. Look at the weekdays:
>
>oneday, twoday, threeday, fourday...
>
>Give me the Nordic days any old time!
>
>(Sun Day)
>(Moon Day)
>Tiw's Day
>Woden's Day
>Thor's Day
>Frigga's Day
>(Saturn's Day)
>
>Maybe we can use the Vilani day names?
>What are they, by the way?
You already gave us the Vilani names: Oneday, Twoday, Threeday...
:)
(Gotta love those Vilani.)
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:00:54 -0800
From: "Bruce Macintosh"
Subject: Re: Gearhead lists
>Well, the problem with such a list is getting people to actually use it...
>I suspect that even with a tech list we'd find technical questions and issues
>showing up on the main TML, unless everyone subscribes to the tech list (in
>which case why bother having it in the first place).
Even if such a thread develops it can be shifted to the tech-list as it gets
more technical or heated; this happened successfully with some of the
more bitter sensor/missile debates a couple of years ago, for example.
People like, say, Kiri, who care little for the details of missile intercepts
could be spared such discussion...Although it's true that in Traveller's
current muddled multi-system state gearhead discussion has become more
muted, roughly the way that esoteric angel-pinhead debates became
less vigorous at the end of the sixteenth century, when people found
something else to argue about.
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:02:25 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Armed Kangeroos...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jason T. Barnabas
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: Armed Kangeroos
>
> IIRC, a wallaby is a small variety of kangaroo. Many are the
> size of rabbits some smaller yet, perhaps as small as rats.
> However; I do not recall ever hearing of a quokka. Please
> let me know more.
>
It's a small macropod... a little wallaby with a short tail and hind feet.
For another unusual name, we also have/had a critter (another wallaby) down
here with the uncomfortable name (well, to me anyway) of "toolache!"
- -- The Roc
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:05:16 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: THUDDD News
Old News:
THUDDD 9 & 10 results have been posted. Follow the
links from the homepage.
New News:
The robots I developed created almost as much work for
me as they eliminated, so, I have decided to try something
new (again :-).
If you would like to check out the new procedure, you can
download the ZIPped version (9.5 KB).
Or if you can't handle zipped files, you can download the
unZIPped version (70.4 KB).
Since it is in Rich Text Format, everyone should be able to
read it with no problem. If there are any questions, let me
know.
Entries for THUDDD 11 are being accepted as of now.
Entries will close as of the end of the month, barring any
unforeseen problems. The first peek should be available by
February 6th.
I still haven't heard anything concerning THUDDD 12, so I
don't know where we stand on that.
- --
Jason
P.S.: In case you are wondering why the HTML tags have
been included above, it has come to my attention that there
are those on this list who are using AOL. I figured it would
be nice if they could just point and click like most of the rest
of us. If you have no idea what I'm talking about then you
are probably one of the people I included the tags for.
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1816
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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:06:05 -0800 To: Kagehira@aol.com From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest) (by way of Keith Johnson ) Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1817 Traveller-digest Wednesday, January 26 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1817 (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises. All rights reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: How small can a sophont be? Re: [OT] Quokkas Re: The Traveller Adventure Madoc history:Triumph and Tragedy Re: THUDDD News Re: Big computers Re: Imperial Politics Madoc history: Modern Times ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:10:49 -0900 From: Richard Martin Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be? > > > Now that makes me think. What if a post-human race decided to get > > around this limit by not being bipedal any more? > > > > I know, hands are too useful to get rid of. But redesign the human from > > the lower chest down to be a centauroid... > > > > Yeah, I know, it's probably easier just to redesign the woman's pelvis > > to change at end-stage pregnancy from "efficient for walking" to > > "pops open for baby delivery". > > Why redesign the _pelvis_ why not simply redesign the > lower stomach to include a zipper. When you're ready > to give birth you simply unzip it. > > > Or just make your civilization dependent > > on non-natural childbirth, or even non-natural wombs. But I happen to > > like centaurs when they pop up in science fiction. :-) > > Actually there is no reason why human brains cannot grow any larger. If babies were born more immature this could be a possibility, in the same sense as same cranial size now but even more immature than now. The longer the brain matures outside the womb appears to be a key to increased intelligence, at least if I get my human evolution right (one of my favorite classes). It is the length of this maturing and growing brain exposed to culture that makes us unique in the animal world. but then I would not rule out centaurs either... - -- Richard Martin I think, therefor I am, therefor I must be... Still here ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:14:08 -0800 From: "Jason T. Barnabas" Subject: Re: [OT] Quokkas From: Colin the Evilest Dolphin in the South Seas > > Quokkas are small marsupials (mammals with pouches) that are most notably > present on Rottnest Isalnd off Perth Western Australia. Picture of a > quokka: http://members.tik.com.au/dwellcop/quokka.htm > Thanks, delurk anytime. - -- Jason ______________________________________________ The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web. http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972 Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you. ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:34:21 -0800 From: Kristian Miller Subject: Re: The Traveller Adventure Amazingly enough: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0139302719/qid=948860832/sr=1-4/103-0012129-0123839 Don't hold your breath though, it is 771,176th on their sales rank (at least it's ranked). Eris Reddoch wrote: > > I don't have "The Traveller Adventure", there wasn't such a thing when I > bought my first printing LLB's and AFAIK, it wasn't ever published > separately...or was it? If so, does anyone have an idea where I could > find it? > > Eris > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > "Eris Reddoch" > ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:00:32 -0500 From: "Alvin" Subject: Madoc history:Triumph and Tragedy History of Madoc subsector, Part Four By 480, the Imperium had firm control of the subsector. Imperial intellectual and corporate influences began to change the region's flavour, discouraging warfare, piety and population growth in favour of financial security and compliance with standard Imperial cultural mores. Internal differences shrank in importance as Madoc tried to build a new identity within the Imperium. It was during this period that Zion changed it's name to Mashad, meaning "graceful living" in the local tongue. However, Madoc subsector generally lacked the population or the technology to participate in the Imperial economy as anything else but a bit player, ignored except as a resource base. Ahava was the only exception, but it's culture and economy turned away from the other Madoc worlds and focused instead on Concord subsector, the Solomani Rim subsector immediately to rimward. Twice Ahava petittioned the Emperor to shift it from the Duchy of Madoc to the Duchy of Concord, and twice the Emperor rejected it's desire: he was not about to start shifting subsector borders all over the Imperium. From the late 500's, Christianity began to regain it's influence in the region. The first indication was in a suprising series of conversions on Membrane which eventually led to rise of a network of Christianized city-states. These city-states eventually federated into the Christian Communities, which - with increasing off-world support from Ogadzi cultures - eventually absorbed or conquered all the opposing city-states by the 650's [A.D. 5170's ]. The reassersion of Christian viewpoint's and pratices inspired Ogadzi Christians, who were reinvigorated and eventually retook their place as the major intellectual force of their own societies by about 700. [1] Kelvin Christians, however, never really took part in the Reconversion, and eventually became passionate believers in the natural racial supremacy of pureblooded Solomani. The Imperial Civil War (604 - 622) had little effect on this backwater subsector. Only a few half-hearted skirmishes were ever fought here, and there was no notable independence movement. There was a rise in piracy, making life miserable for free traders in poorly-patroled areas like Madoc. However, the local pirates never got the critical mass to directly challange the Imperial Navy head-on, or battle the local systems navies for their own homeworlds. It took to the 660's for the Imperial Navy to efectively beat back the pirates down to pre-war level's. Even as Empress Arabellatra built the x-boat network to draw the Imperium closer, the Solomani- and Ogadzi-dominated Madoc region turned away from Capital and towards Terra as the primary economic and political magnet. This shift accellerated when Emperor Zhakirov broke Solomani power in court, marrying a Vilani noblewoman in 679. Local Solomani, especially on Ahava, joined in the general agitation for Solomani home rule. Margaret, the first Empress of mixed Solomani/Vilani blood, took the throne at the age of six on 688. When she reached 20, she created the Solomani Autonomous Region, which included Madoc subsector. The Solomani was given a vast number of freedoms, and Imperial taxes was much reduced, with warship's turned over to the Solomani. Increased freedom from the Imperial Megacorporations promoted a general increase in the local technology: so did a revival of free enterprise and a decline of state economic power, a direct result of local Christian thought. The 700's was a time of growth in Madoc, symbolized with the construction of Inviola Cathedral on Mashad. Madoc forms of Christianity was always similar in style and doctrine, but only at 714 did the diverse sect's codify and unify their doctrines in the Synod of Ismya, on Ogadzi. As Chirstian attitudes towards families and children began to make itself felt, there became an increased need to colonize additional worlds: Mashad led the settlement of Epiphany in 731 and Glossalaia at 751, while the Christians on nominally-beliving Ahava colonized Veimandu at 784. An out-of-subsector organization that wished to revive the long-dead Terran Java culture of the A.D. 1500's bought the right's to System 2434 from a major corporation, renaming it Kampung ("Village"). Other Imperials from Khulam subsector obtained the Duke's permission to settle System 2333 and System 2334, renaming them NightVision and LightWaves. Christian missionaries successfully converted Kampung to the Faith by 800, but were tossed out of NightVision and LightWaves. Both of these systems were settled by devout Void Mystics - the Vacare - who viewed Imsya Christans as a threat to their culture and lifestyle. Partly as a reaction against pagan settlement of the subsector, and partly as a way of expresing unity, the Ogodza and Mashad governments organized the Ogadzi StarUnion in 834. Initially set up as a lobby group, a religious directorate and a trade board, it rapidly became a full-fledged government by the 850's. They succeeded in promoting a unified culture, language, and legal system across all Ogadzi worlds, but failed in their attempt's to extend their power to NightVision and LightWaves. At 871, the Solomani Autonomous region declared independence from the Imperium. Madoc subsector's fleet sided with the Solomani, and sent the local nobility off packing. The very next year the Ogadzi proclaimed themselves a sovergin state within the Solomani Confederation: the world's of NightVision and LightWaves quickly joined the CantonSpace government of Khulam subsector nearby as a counterbalance to the Ogadzi. Ahava preferred the Nations Of Sol, based in Concord subsector to rimward. Only little Arrikesh, pratically frozen in time, remained loyal to the Third Imperium. By ~ 900 Imperial / A.D. 5420, the breakdown of Madoc subsector was as follows: "Old Systems", settled by 400. Hex / Name / Settled date / Culture / UWP / Population / Religion 1739 / Macedonia / 68 / Ogadzi / BA84635-B / 7.416 M / Christian 1838 / Tyrranus / 79 / Ogadzi / C4617BD-D / 12.540 M / Christian 1933 / Mashad / -372 / Ogadzi / A448899-C S / 650 M / Christian 1934 / Ogadza / -3712 / Ogadzi / C98688A-C / 588 M / Christian 2031 / Kaesong / -181 / Mixed Human / C110668-D / 1.330 M / Individualist 2037 / Nephilium / -3794 / Solomani / A696957-D N W / 2.471 B / Christian 2040 / Arrikesh / -3555 / Vilani / X898432-5 / 90,000 / Ritualism 2340 / Ahava / -3649 / Solomani / A89899A-E N / 7.580 B / Solomani supremacy Note: Kaesong is a territory directly ruled by the Imperial Navy since 625, due to history, convenience & inertia than to any local threat Note: To declare their newfound faith to the galaxy, the Membranemen renamed their world from Membrane to Nephilium in 705. "New Systems", settled since 400 1840 / Epiphany / 731 / Ogadzi / D7275A5-8 / 460,000 / Christian 1938 / Glossalaia / 751 / Ogadzi / E768300-6 / 4,000 / Christian 2136 / Veimandu / 784 / Solomani / D67A412-5 / 67,000 / Christian 2333 / NightVision / 804 / Mixed Human / E444674-A S / 2.477 M / Void 2334 / LightWaves / 874 / Mixed Human / E225470-8 / 99,000 / Void 2434 / Kampong / 719 / Solomani / D7845882-B RsTheta / 784,000 / Java-Christian Syncretism "Barren Systems", not considered anyone's home, as opposed to being visited, researched, or being exploited for the short haul. No system population listed here still endured even 50 years later. 1733 / Pythagoras' Trousers / * / * / EAA7114-C / 80 / * 1737 / Harmony / * / * / D8D5359-A / 900 / * 1740 / Yu's World / * / * / X577000-0 / * / * 2134 / Que Son / * / * / X53A000-0 / * / * 2236 / Gyrat / * / * / E784348-7 / 6000 / * 2338 / StarWharf / * / * / B559210-B / 800 / * 2440 / Steel Spheres / * / * / X300000-0 / * / * With the failure of the Ogadzi StarUnion to extend it's influence outside of it's borders, the ever-growing population began to emigrate massively from Madoc subsector, looking for good worlds to call their own. They initially migrated to two thinly-populated subsectors in Alpha Crucis, but the pure-blooded Solomani routinely discriminated against the mixed blood of the Ogadzi, despite their sympathy with Solomani culture. Many people, impoverished by the cost of the long journey, joined the underclass in that subsector. The second and following waves of emigration focused on the high population worlds within Diaspora Sector. Several major cities soon gained Ogadzi quarters, a few smaller cities and regions were entirely taken over by the Ogadzi. Most Ogadzi eventually joined the working class: the vast majority kept themselves seperate from the local cultures, living in their own religious and racial enclaves, often heavily armed. Three major disasters fell on the subsector during the 900's, in increasing magnitude. The first occurred in 911 when an Imperial battleship captain convinced his crew that an evil spirit possesed a particular safety inspector, and belw his approaching cutter into so much gas. [2] The chaotic naval chase ripped through two subsectors, through The Blight to Madoc. The _Princess Agatha_, an advanced 150,000 disp, Jump4 G3 vessel, caused most of it's carnage in Madoc subsector. Here, the _Princess Agatha_ killed off half of Kaesong's population in less than two minutes, destroyed Ogodza's HighPort, nuked eight of Nephilim's orbiting settlements and was wiping out the colonist's on Veimandu from orbit, before the Solomani Navy killed it for good. The Star Union Navy was worse than useless during the crisis. The Admirality was totally disconnected from the situation while ship captains, valuing their lives rather than their duty, simply refused to close with the _Princess Agatha_. A furious, Union-wide controversy broke out ending with the dismissal of the entire officer corps and their eventual replaement with warrior-priest's, trained and bloodied outside of Union space. In the interm, the officer corps was staffed with mercenaries, local politico's, and loan officers from the Confederation Navy. Another catastrophe stuck the Union from 928 to the late 950's. The Flash Plague - so named for it's swift spread, long incubation (3-5 years), and sudden flareup of symptoms - was released by a Solomani corporation involved in an internal race war. Slack quarrentine procedures allowed it to spread to three subsector's, including Madoc. A sophisticated weapon, it could be defeated but only by an intensive, punishing drug regime. Even if you found no trace of the virus in the bloodstream it could "hide" in a hard-to-recognize form in a single tiny region of the body, and rebuild itself in a month if treatment was halted. Moreover, the drug therapy itself was very damaging to the body, and would eventually kill you in 5 - 20 years. The Plague Years lasted to the late 950's, when the disease largely burnt itself off and most of the symptomless carriers died. In 1017, a much more gentler treatment regime was successfully discovered by researchers at Libert, capital of Diaspora. About 1/10th of the subsector's population died directly by the plague, with another 1/4 eventually killed by the drug regime. During the Plague Years, there were extensive quarrentine procedures for planet's, cities, and neighbourhood's across Madoc subsector: On Mashad and the major continents of Ogadzi, the quarrentines effectively failed and the few uninfected citizen's had to be evacuated to Macadonia, and the others left to fend for themselves. When StarUnion craft returned to visit Mashad in 963, they only found about 100,000 low-tech survivors, who were transported to Ogadzi after a medical check. Of the high-pop systems, only Ahava was spared, due to draconian quarrentine procedures and relentless reinspection. Even in the 1100's, there will be the rare flare-up and small outbreak, rapidly contained by local medic's. The third great catastrophe was, of course, the Solomani Rim War. In 940 Margaret II offically dissolved the Solomani Sphere, bu the order was ignored by all residents, and the Imperial Navy didn't press the issue. In 989, responding to some Solomani starnations defecting to the Imperium, the Confederation government restated their claim to the entire Solomani Sphere, including Imperial-held areas. In 990 the Third Imperium declared war against "the illegal organization which refer's to itself as the 'Solomani Confederation' ". The Ogadzi StarUnion was growing disenchanted with Solomani culture due to it's unrelenting racism against the mixed-blood Ogadzi, but still sided with the Confederation against the Imperium. Ahava, as part of the Nations of Sol, joyously backed the Confederation. CantonSpace declared neutrality, but was quickly occupied by the Confederation military. From 990 to 992 the Confederation managed to reoccupy the entire Sphere, but at 992 it's offenses were checked by the Imperial Navy, ending the "happy time". The years between 992 to 998 were basically a grinding war of attrition, with the Imperium breaking thru Promise subsector in late 998. Imperial raiding of Madoc subsector was done in strength throughout 998 - 999, with the major offences striking through other more important subsectors. CantonSpace fell in 52-998, turning over NightVision and LightWaves to Imperial control (occupation didn't prove to be necessary). In early 999, the Solomani had withdrawn most of their fleet's from Madoc subsector. In 103-999, stripped of it's navy by the Solomani and weary of war and isolation, the Ogadzi Star Union surrendered to the Imperium. The central government of the Nations of Sol surrendered in 180-999, but several worlds led by Ahava continued to resist the Imperium. The lesser worlds were eventualy overwhelmed, and the Ahava system became the scene of ugly, desperate fighting from 241-999 to 18-1000. As the Imperium was saving most of it's troops for the many politically and economically high-value worlds in Solomani Rim, NBC warfare was freely used against the Ahavans, killing billions. No Ahavan government official or military unit ever actually surrendered, as they were totally loyal to their Solomani heritage to the end. The government leaders were all eventually killed by ortillery, relentless military strikes, enviromental failure, starvation or disease. At 18-1000 the last Ahavan military unit - a rag-tag mob of poorly-trained 14-year olds - was slaughtered by the Imperial military, ending the conflict in Madoc subsector. [1] The handful of Imperial intellectuals who actually *care* about this thinly-populated region have some difficulty determining what was the 'trigger point' which turned the tide back to Ismya Christianity. Why *did* the legendarily fractious Membranemen - after resisting conversions for millennia - largely decide to convert when Christianity was at it's weakest point? And why did their conversion - a people who were pureblooded Solomani, not of the Ogadzi race - inspire reconversions among the Ogadzi? Imperial 'conterfactual' historians postulate that, had the area not reconverted back to Christianity, the most likely substitute would be some kind of Ogadzi racial primacy movement, a vague reflection of the widespread Solomani Movement. NonChristian Ogadzi thought - pratically an oxymoron outside of the 480 to 700 time period - spent a lot of time trying to create some kind of ideology that would appeal to both traditional Ogadzi mores and meet the approval of mainstream Imperial intellectual opinion. [1a] In the meantime, The "Way of the Tyrant" on Tyrannus was under severe stress. The concept of "Law" in the Way refers primarily to the Mosaic Law, but also secondarily to the chain of legitimate authorities below God Himself ( the State, Church laws, local laws, and sometimes even 'the common traditions of men') ;"Duty" refers to the requirement Tyranni have to actually _obey_ and _uphold_ his obligations to God, Church, State, and Family; "Blood" refers to the blood of Jesus shed on the Cross, the bloodbonds between Tyranni, the common Ogadzi race,and finally all humaniti; "Water" refers to the Holy Spirit, water itself (a relatively rare and precious substance on Tyrannus) and the physical necessities of life; and "Purity" refers to the work of Purification - increasing sinless - in the believers life, as well as general integrity, honesty, and cleanliness. Without a biblical basis to "The Way of the Tyrant", everything would have to be redefined according to some other authority: the Way might have even been abandoned. Then again, it might have even been elevated into a new religion of itself, had the Reconversion not taken place. This was *the* major historical crisis on Tyrannus, causing even more cultural stress and pain on that world than the successful, bloody coup at 1015: the Tyrant is now gone, but the Way still remains. [1a] At the time, there actually *was* such a thing as "mainstream Imperial intellectual opinion". Now [ at 1120 ], with the quiet, ongoing disintergration of a formerly unified Imperial Culture, it's getting harder and harder to find anything deeper than a superficial unity.... [2] Research into the debris of the _Princess Agatha_, as well as study of surviving logs and other documents, provides some evidence of a widespread psychotic episode on the ship. What triggered this outburst of mass paranoia and destructiveness can't be clearly determined with the available evidence. Alvin Plummer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:04:13 -0600 From: Black ICE Subject: Re: THUDDD News "Jason T. Barnabas" wrote: > > Old News: > THUDDD 9 & 10 results have been posted. Follow the > links from the homepage. All I found at that URL was an evangelical site. No links at all led to anything recognizably THUDDD-related (and I checked all buttons from the main site). I did see that you designed the site ("the Cybernaut"), so I have three questions: 1. Did you accidentally post the "releasing the fire" URL in lieu of the URL for THUDDD activities? 2. If you intentionally posted the "relaesing the fire" URL (with no links to THUDDD), did you post the "releasing the fire" URL just to get more hits? 3. Where _are_ the THUDDD results? (I also checked the THUDDD home page that you put up a couple of months ago, and ther were no results posted there.) > > New News: > The robots I developed created almost as much work for > me as they eliminated, so, I have decided to try something > new (again :-). > > If you would like to check out the new procedure, you can > download the ZIPped version (9.5 KB). > > Or if you can't handle zipped files, you can download the > unZIPped version (70.4 KB). I got "error 404" results on both of these URLs. <> - -- AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r) Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:35:07 -0800 From: "James W. Lindsay" Subject: Re: Big computers Anyone familiar with Terry Pratchett's Discworld series? In "Interesting Times" there is reference to a hilarious bio-mechanical computer named Hex. You see, inside there are all these ants. Lots and lots of 'em. They scurried about through passageways and glass tubes like a giant ant farm. The rest of Hex was a maze of gears and delicate clockwork mechanisms. The keyboard (which itself was huge as well) consisted of a bunch of buttons and levers which manipulated a number of shutters inside Hex. Asking Hex a question involved pushing buttons. Pushing them in the correct manner would shunt ants to certain mechanisms inside, and out would pop your answer (eventually). When a rat took up residence inside of Hex, answers became more interesting. I remember one that said something to the effect of: "Redo from Start. Out of Cheese Error." Anyway, there are *lots* of reasons why Traveller computers can be big :) - ---------------------------------------------------------------- James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ:#7521644 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- If I had anything witty to say, I wouldn't put it here. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:21:17 -0900 From: Richard Martin Subject: Re: Imperial Politics Glenn St-Germain wrote: > > Goodness gracious, I think you're on to something here. Just in this > mundane world alone we have several examples of triad groupings. The > Christian trinity (Father / Son / Holy Spirit). The Three Kings from > the Christian nativity scene. Three cheers (hip-hip-hoorah/hooray). > The Three Little Kittens (who have lost their mittens). Rub-a-dub-dub, > three men in a tub. My Three Sons. The list goes on... > > And in the mundane world of other cultures you will find groupins of 4, or even more. This fascination with triads is not universal.... - -- Richard Martin I think, therefor I am, therefor I must be... Still here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 02:00:06 -0500 From: "Alvin" Subject: Madoc history: Modern Times History of Madoc Subsector, Part Five After the end of the Rim War, the survivors that remained in Ahava all migrated back to the central world, abandoning their various colonies and shattered space habitats insystem. They did a pretty good job of rebuilding their economy and planet, even regaining a TL of D by 1020, only one step below their old level. However, they grew more and more xenopobic and deeply contemptous of the lightly-damaged Ogadzi systems, angry that such irrational, backwater half-breed hicks generally had better technology and a more comfortable life than their own vastly more populous, much older system. Eventually they grew to focus on Christianity as the source of their problems, and a major xenophobic, antiChristian, populous movement sprung up on the world, taking power in a coup in 1026. Stressing individual equality before the State, they soon expelled or killed off the local Christian Church, closed off relations with all Christian governments, and renamed their world Kelvin in 1028, as it was in preChristian times. Arrikesh, long loyal to the Imperium thru thick and thin, was finally rewarded at 1022 by Emperor Gavin. Other worlds which pleases an Emperor might have it's debt's forgiven, an entire grav city built at the Emperor's personal expense, or be granted a special privilege, without cost. In Arrikesh's case, the Emperor decided to upgrade the entire local population from TL 5 to TL D. This is not as expensive as it sounds, as the world's population was fixed at 90,000 by local tradition for the last few millennia. The real difficulty was in teaching technophobic, pureblooded Vilani how to operate and maintain such equipment. Most of the equipment was made to look, feel, and smell as low-tech as possible, but many suffered psychosomatic illnesses due to the change: several thousand eventually died from these illnesses. Irregardless, the Vilani felt that it would be even more anti-tradition to reject a gift given in the name of the Emperor. Ogodza's attempt to rebuild herself was a failure, mainly due to government corruption. A series of enormous financial pyramid schemes was born in the 1010's, and collapsed in 1023, causing a depression. With much of the damage from the Solomani Rim War still not repaired, a civil war exploded at 1029: less than 5% of the population died, but the TL fell from A to 8 on the world. At 1039 the war finally ended with the surviving nations forming a provisional world government, which became pernament in 1048. Tyrannus, ruled by a series of Tyrant's for 766 years, went thru a bloody coup in 1015 by locals who claimed greater fidelity to the The Way of the Tyrant (Law, Duty, Blood, Water, Purity) than the Tyrant himself did. The shift of power from the State to family business, social organizations, and religious bodies was applauded by the majority of Tyranni, and inflenced the other Ogadzi worlds as well. This intellectual rebirth led to greater overall prosperity, technological expertise and increased interstellar influence: by 1100 Tyrannus had become the most respected and wealthiest Ogadzi world, eclipsing Ogodza herself in influence. The waterworld of Veimandu was resettled by Christian refugees from Kelvin in 1042, with support from Tyrannus: eventually it developed into a prosperous port, and a staging area for the continual frow of refugees from Kelvin. Many Kelvin refugees obtained permission to settle temporarily on Ogadzi worlds, but were not given citizenship. Several thousand resided on squatter camps on Veimandu, but greatly longed for a "world of their own". By 1100 over 20 million Kelvin refugees were dispersed: about 10 million had left the subsector, with the rest to be found on Tyrannus, Macedonia, Kaesong, and Veimandu. As Void Mysticism waned in the Old Expanses, their power in Madoc paradoxically grew: those people who still held to the religion all tended to end up on NightVision. What was no more than a few thousand believers on any given city numbered in the millions when gathered onto a single world. And the Vacare tended to be fairly well-off middle class folk, eventually establishing a number of financial institutions on Kampong and Kaesong. On Kampong, the government, still chasing the dream of reviving the Hindu/Buddist/Islamic culture of 15th century Java on Terra, eventually got into very deep debt to the Vacare, and are informally governed by them. The people of Kampong, no longer much interested in Christianity, are listening carefully to what the Void Mystics teach: in return, the Vacare have a growing interest in ancient Javanese thought. Nephilim, dominated by Christian Solomani, became an enthusiastic believer of Solomani racial superiority early in the Rim War. Despite their defeat, they decided to put their ideas of the Master Race into practice in the 1030's: however, rivaly between the local races over which which one best embodied the Solomani racial ideal-type led to immence friction. No open warfare broke out initially, but there were severe tensions and the occassional terrorist attack on an opposing Solomani race. System 2236 was claimed by the Mapki, a Vilani ancestor worshipping society that specialized in revering the spirits of those that lived during the Ziru Sirka. The Mapki discovered that the name of System 2236 was Amalusii during the later years of the First Imperium, and renamed the system as such, resettling it in 1049. The mysterious ruins of Steel Spheres soon got their attention, and a Mapki archaeological research/ancestor worship crew was sent to the system in 1052. A world in System 1740 was requested for terraforming and habitation by a Kelvin Christian refugee organization, with support from several Oagdzi governments: permission to terraform and settle was granted by the Duke in 1038. Between 1040 and 1080 the system's tainted atmosphere was cleared up, and the world itself was renamed Lucy's Diamonds. Most of the overcrowded Veimandu's refugee settlements had settled the world from 1083 to 1085: the other 10 million refugees in the subsector are mainly waiting for the green light from the Ministry of Colonization. By the late 1030's a politically astute man, Tecra DAT585 [1] obtained control of the Kelvin system government. On 1042, he secretly approached the Solomani Confederation for a large transfer of genetic and cybernetic technology, needed to help realize his dream of creating a truly Rational man, melding biological insight with mechanical strength and electronic data processing. He did not have much funds to provide in return, so instead he would allow Solomani operatives to operate freely from his system. [2] Because the Imperium kept a very low profile on Kelvin herself, it was quite easy for a totalitarian state to hide the Solomani operatives on the planet once they arrived. The difficult part - getting past the Imperial Navy and the Imperial Starport Authority - was the Confederation's problem, not Kelvin's, but the skill of the Solomani security services insured that this was never an issue. Between 1046 and 1073, there were a long series of terrorist incidents throughout Diaspora sector. A vast variety of groups claimed responsibility for these actions: sometimes, no one did, and sometimes their were conflicting claims. The major threads of the attacks were that they would involve attacking isolated groups of Imperial personnel, theft of Imperial equipment, striking Imperial communication centres, smashing worldwide power and comminication grids on pro-Imperial worlds, or mass killings of pro-Imperial populations, usually by well-planned NBC attacks on cities or space settlements (in the 1063-1073 period - at the height of the terror strikes - - over 750 million people died in various incidents, mainly in nuclear explosions and life support failures of various cities.) The Imperial Ministry of Justice - and later, Imperial Naval Intelligence - has a very difficult time not just tracing down the evidence, but seperating the 'signal' from the 'noise' of run-of-the mill local terrorism, typical wartime atrocities, and regular antiImperial sentiment. The main flags they looked for was professionalism in planning & execution, unusually high-grade equipment, and a remarkably informed selection of targets and opportunities. The terrorist's began their strikes in 1049, starting small and growing in force, cunning, and destruction. It took INI to 1054 to realize that there was some kind of unifying thread in certain local terroristic incidents, and the Point Lai incident at 1060 to conclusively prove that someone with at least the resources of a major corporation or planetary government is doing the hits. A sudden lull in activity between 1065 to 1068 threw the investigators for a loop: the Solomani and Kelvin governments were locked in renegoitiating their agreement. At 1071 a chance incident and clever reanalysis of old forensic data finally gave INI the break they needed, isolating a small number of systems to investigate. The covert team sent to Kelvin finally got part of the evidence needed, which implicated the Kelvin government but missed the Solomani Confederation connection. [3] The Imperial government knew that they only got part of the story, but felt heavy political pressure to act _now_, before the next orbiting city died or the terrorists finally managed to sieze control of a major naval vessel. In 1073, warships from Promise's Subsector Navy (then the 88th fleet) joined Madoc's 299th fleet at Kaesong, then moved on to Kelvin via LightWaves and Veimandu (spending an extra week to avoid detection and Jump prediction of their final destination). The local nobility and Imperial personnel were *not* evacuated before the fleet arrived, so as not to give advanced warning to the Kelvinites. As soon as the strike fleet arrived, they demanded the surrender of the Kelvin government to the local Baroness. After several fights, about half of the nobles insystem were taken hostage, including the Baroness: the others managed to fight and/or sneak their way to the Imperial starport - still held by the Marines - go into hiding, or held out on their fief's until the Navy arrived for a pickup. Tecra DAT585, the ruler of Kelvin's system, decided to fight rather than see his dream die. The local system navy stood against the Imperial fleet, despite the strong urgings of the fleet commander to surrender as they didn't have a hope of victory. Despite their recommendation, the system SDB boats stood their ground, and died in a firestorm within 18 minutes. [4] Sensing certain death for themselves and their entire system, the surviving leaders of the government placed Tecra DAT585 under arrest, ordered the Imperial nobles freed, and surrendered to the released Baroness in person. The Imperials onsite soon gathered evidence that strongly pointed to Confederation involvement in the terrorism, but decided against a costly war with the Confederation, punishing Kelvin instead as a lesson in the rewards of treason. And the punishment was very hard: about a billion people had died by the hands of the terror network in total, so the Commodore selected a number of Kelvin's cities - whos population totalled a billion people - - and turned those cities into fused glass without warning. The Kelvinite government officals who surrendered to the Baroness begged for mercy: the noble replied "What mercy did you show?" She had their families found, brought before her, and shot. Finally, she killed the officals with her sword. Tecra DAT585 himself was brought in chains to the sector capital at Libert, where he was stripped naked, blinded with metal spikes, and flogged through the corridors of the Imperial archology of StellarGlory. His dying moments, lying in a city gutter covered with blood, was filmed in Tri-V and distributed throughout the sector. His death was met with roaring approval by most of the populance of Diaspora. Amazingly, the government of Kelvin was not replaced with Imperial military rule: the subsector Duke felt that enough vengeance had been meeted out, and privately symphatized with the Kelvinites, who were merely fighting for their liberty with the tools they had. The surviving government groups on Kelvin reorganized their system under a new Community of Reason, and swore among themselves to never let a charismatic fool lead their world against the Imperium, and to never act as a cat's paw for any foreign government, regardless of racial heritage. Ever since the Community of Reason was formed, Kelvin has taken an increasingly socialist and collectivist turn over the decades, insisting in keeping tight control of the population. All but a few privileged party members are sterilized, preferably from birth. Birth itself is now a government activity: the vast majority of new Kelvinites are bred in various artifical wombs, to government specifications of equality. As all are supposed to enjoy "the good life" in equal measure, the usual enormous State bureaucracy has sprung up to enforce this equality. Since infirm and senile people are weeded out by "the tools of controlled evolution", the general population insist's on TL F levels of medical care: the State is has had strain itself to meet these demands, putting the planned rise from TL D to E on hold. From 1095 onward several new factors has arisen. First, to reduce law enforcement expenditures the law level has been effectively lowered from G to A, and the level of slavery to the State has been reduced. Secondly, the theology of the regime has shifted from pure materialism and to the belief that the Mind should be raised to immortality. There is a greater desire to insure that certain human Minds always exist, to guide the evolution of the MassMind to it's proper, exalted level. Thirdly, the government has started building millions and millions of "WorkPods": basically low berth capsules, with special modifications designed to keep the body strong and with good muscle tone. Three series of neural jacks are provided, one to input synthetic experiences into the good citizen, another has a "network link" to other citizens, and a third to timeshare any currently unused processing power for the needs of the MassMind. Over three billion of Kelvin's people are in their WorkPods, and another three billion are planned to be put to use by 1130, leaving about a billion to serve The Community of Reason outside of the 'Pods. Local Rule of Reason intellectuals will insist that this is a viable economic model. After all, over the millennia physical labour, resources and energy has declined greatly in value, in comparison to new and useful ideas, thought, and information. Thus, the society that pays the least cost to the physical world while placing the most effort into sharing and expanding ideas should out-compete other, less efficent societies. So far, the local economy has been consumed with the initial capitalization cost of their new society, devouring resources that could have been used to raise the local TL from D to E. Time will tell if this is merely the down payment to a wealthy future, or the start of a utopian disaster. Macedonia, long a boring, peaceful backwater ruled by the Coyne Compact, found that it's population could no longer be ruled successfully by that esteemed document. Eventually, they requested the local Baron to take control of the government, but he proved to be a financial incompetent, putting the entire planet into hock to pay for his palaces, hunting estates on 10 different worlds, and funding his expensive tastes in women. His creditor's eventually sold their uncollected financial deeds to a mercenary collection agency which specializes in these cases. After gaining permission from the Duke, they attacked the Baron's forces, driving the Baron and his concubines to the starport and seizing everything else in 1093. The mercenaries eventually sold the planet to Tulcon Agricorp LIC for a tidy profit. Tulcon's executives has proven to be highly competent politicans as well as good businessmen, putting the world back to a stable footing, permitting Tulcon to be Christianized (as the locals demanded), and increasing the TL to C in 1110. They have built several private starports, but are often forced to deal with the Baron, who has somehow managed to hang on to his noble title. He has refused to allow the main port to be upgraded to level C, but has allowed the number of ship berth's to grow, making Blund Starport the largest class E port in 30 parsecs. The Baron tends to waiver between scheming to get back in control of Macedonia and selling off his title. The racially divided Nephilim begun a major war in 1090 over Solomani purity: by 1096, when an enormous Imperial military occupation finally ended the fighting, over 95% of the population had either died or fled offworld and local technology had falled from F to 9. Most of the deaths was due to destroyed infrastructure, smashed power plants and distribution, extensive biowar against livestock and crops, and ruined water purification systems rather than direct nuclear weaponry or machine-gun massacres. With the grudging support of the local fractions, the Imperium has placed an intensely devout Christian Solomani noble family from Solomani Rim as the head of a reconsitiuted global government. The Archon of that family rather forcefully commanded the abandonment of Master Race supremacy in the Jesus' name, instead of the Emperor's: but he has been more than willing to use the Emperor's forces to crush dissent to the Baron's command. By placing the stress on their common religion instead of a racial spoils system, the Baron has forged a semi-stable peace, and the Imperial garrison is withdrawing from the system, as of 1120. Local hostility is shifting from a racial to a religious basis, but as the local community won't slaughter themselves wholesale - and as long as Imperial power is respected, regardless of the faith of the Emperor - the Imperial government is satisfied. As of 1120 the starport had recently been upgraded from E to C, and the TL had just risen to TL A from 9, in part due to 'easy credit' loans from other Ismya Christian states within the subsector. Epiphany changed it's name to Kensington in 1050, after a famous local martyr-saint of the Solomani Rim War. The government has quietly developed along civil service lines, with strong theocratic influences. The world has played out it's mines, and is turning inward, terraforming the world and focusing on training the next generation. Local culture has become quite restrictive and controlled, due to both the expanded power of the self-righteous civil service and the hard job of simple survival. LightWaves suffer's it's only major disaster with it's reoccuring meteor showers, when two settlements are destroyed in 1092. The standard complement of laser turrents per settlement is increased form five to ten. Glossalaia was abandoned after the Solomani Rim War, and was re-settled by refugees from Kelvin in 1085, renaming the world Black Seam. Most of the refugees have moved on, but a thousand or so remain, eeking out a living as hunters and guides. Diotrephes was also settled: here the main claim to fame is the residence of a famous programmer-entertainer, Aracon M'Bec. Mashad was resettled in 1100 by Ogadzi from Ogodza (who were also retaking the abandoned main continent). No instances of the Flash plague has arisen, and the flow of people to this fine, yet abandoned world is now a steady flow. Terraforming operations have begun, to reshape the world in a better, more robust biosphere than the ancient Vilani gave it. Rephaiah, after a series of owners - including at one time the Grand Princess of the Imperium - is now the site of an Imperial Scout base. It's become something of a training centre for Scouts working in multisystem cultures, but is more the "small and cosy" style, rather than the "Huge and monstrous" version at more important subsectors. The 100,000 or so Vilani who settled Amalusii had to evacuate due to a heavy meteor shower in 1072. The majority never returned, and they eventually sold their planet to the Vacore, who renamed the world DreamSong. Only about 600 people live here, as the Vacore plan to sell the system to a friendly buyer, as soon as they can find some group who will buy it at the right price. (The single heavy meteor shower in 1072 has not been repeated. ) An A-class port has been built over the world, to sweeten the deal: Hulls & Drives, LIC, is the local starship contractor. The hardest of hard-core Vilani Mapki ancestor worshippers used their money not to return home and reoccupy their Proper Place in the Universe, but instead joined the Vilani archeologists/priests on Steel Spheres. Despite their ardent beliefs in the spirit world, they have good relations with the nearby Kelvin government, who leases the world to them in return for artifacts, first hearing of any new historical discoveries and being careful to keep Ismya Christian influence off their world. Information is hard to get from the ruins: even the old Vilani name for the world is still unknown, but carefully sought after by the Mapki believers. At 1098, System 2338 was selected as a research site by Caprivi Institute scientists from Aight (Khavle:Diaspora 3203 C752A99-D D5 Hi Po 701 Im G2V). They were following up on evidence from a failed mining expedition of pre-First Imperium settlement on this world. Their small camp has swollen to 8000 after they released information suggesting a Vilani and *Solomani* settlement of this world, and portion's of a *Third Imperium* liner found embedded in sentiments at least thousands of years old. The researchers who believe that these findings are correct insist that the liner made a misjump back in time: those who don't believe the findings insist that the evidence is either misinterpreted or fraudulent. Veimandu refugee flow from Kelvin has greatly diminished by 1100, but there are still good trade routes and a small starship construction facility. A good number of those refugees, now with good jobs as ship's crew and "expat experts", to use Veimandu as a place to touch base with their fellow exiles. Arrikesh has never been sympathetic to Christian missionaries, despite 3000 years of on-again, off-again attempts at conversion. However, the old ruling family - who has apparently been ruling the world since First Imperium times - suddenly asked the Duke permission to be baptized in 1082. This request was so astonishing that the Archduke of Sol was notified. He didn't exactly have authority over whom even minor nobles may choose to worship, but did OK a deep-cover Scout to quietly watch and observe the society in general, and the ruling Lisadakhuur family in particular. No other Arrikeshi has converted to Christianity since then, but the ruling dynasty has made a few changed in the way they govern and live. The local Vilani are still in culture shock over being raised to TL D virtually overnight (in their view), and quite a number quietly keeled over dead over the dynastic conversion. Meanwhile, the Lisadakhuur family - having abandoned strict Vilani-style controls over reproduction - - are now enjoying a baby boom. As part of a general Madoc policy shift, the naval base at Kelvin and the Imperial research station at NightVision was closed at 1106 and 1109, respectively. The Imperial military presence is deliberately played down, excluding the huge (and rapidly diminishing) Imperial Army garrison at Nephilim. The Megacorps, taking their cue from the Emperor, prefer to work thru subsidiaries and partnerships with local businesses rather than directly. While autonomy is not on the table, the Imperium is willing to consider modifying several subsector (and a few sector) laws to calm certain Ogadzi concerns. Offically, this will be in return for a cut-off in government funding and support of all "Church Militant" groups. [5] The unoffical agenda is a diminishing of local Ismya Christian hostility to Imperial culture, and an increase of the Imperium's reputation locally. To replace the lost Imperial Naval bases, System 1733 had a new naval base built far from most populated centres, and the system was renamed Stoll after Rear Admiral Tensu Stoll, a senior commander of one of the larger Imperial strike groups during the Solomani Rim War. ********* Notes [1] Kelvin naming conventions is a short personal name, a 3-digit alpha sequence denoting birthplace followed by 12-digit unique numerical code (usually cut to three digits in conversation) provided by the State. This is felt to be more rational than the personal name/ regional name/family name convention used previously (aka "Tecra Daritown Wagnalls", if Tecra was born a century previous). [2] The Imperial Nobles "in charge" of Kelvin's system at the time was: fourteen Knights (one for each of the five lesser worlds one for each of the three large space cities in interplanetary space, one for each of the three largest cities on Kelvin one for each of the four island continents on Kelvin) and one Baroness, over both the mainworld as a whole and the system as a whole. As was (and still is) standard practice within the Solomani Sphere, the Nobles owned nothing insystem except their formal landholds and a portion of the local trading concerns. Moreover, to avoid aggrivating the Solomani their rank was one level lower than it would be elsewhere in Imperial Space. For example, the Baroness would normally be a Marchioness, and the Knights would be Barons in their own right. Solomani territories were (and remain) careful to avoid interacting with local politics at all, instead sticking with interstellar military & trade issues. [3] The Solomani practiced excellent information control, using synthetic personalities, selective mindwiping, and false memories on their agents to mask Confederation involvement. The physical tools used for the jobs were either highly generic, or chosen and modified to obscure any Solomani connection. Several false but plausable leads were also left behind for investigators to chase, while single-use codes with "Encrypted IconicHologram ReModulation" - EIHrM encoding - brought endless aggrivation to INI codecrackers. [4] There is strong circumstantial evidence that Tecra DAT585 expected support from the Confederation Navy - help that never arrived, either because they were somehow intercepted or because the Solomani never intended to honour their pledge in the first place. [5] These groups don't challange Imperial power, but do attempt to punish planetary societies which "oppress Ismya Christians", in their judgement. Popular support for such groups has been dwindling rapidly within Madoc subsector itself, but remain quite popular among the Ogadzi diaspora throughout Diaspora and Alpha Crucis Sectors. Funding for the Church Militant is mainly from the Ogadzi diaspora, but training, base operations and banking is mainly done in the Ogadzi worlds of Madoc subsector. A single "field operations unit" is often a free trader, with 4 - 20 passengers with ordinary papers, 'interesting' skills, and unusual equipment in the hold. Skill levels varies from "adequate" to "highly professional", and equipment is generally good as well. Originally, the Church Militant organizations operated much like a terrorist network, without uniforms, identities or accountability. The Imperium *intensely* hates the existance of interstellar terrorist groups, but when pursuing them has to be careful not to step on a lot of corporate, planetary, mercenary, and noble toes. In the end, the Imperium used the Ogadzi worlds as their handle to control the Church Militant, making sure that the Ogadzi worlds know that *they* will be punished if the Church Militant start's to casually violate the Imperial Laws of War. Over time, the Imperium also demanded that all Church Militant military units be registered with the Imperial government: this soon expanded to the free traders 'affiliated' with the various Church Militant units. The general result of Imperial pressure has been the transformation of the Church Militant from a terrorist network to a uniformed military, more careful to respect the Laws of War than many other units as they are so closely watched by the Imperium. As the Church Militant groups can now be easily held accountable for their actions, pressure on the Ogadzi worlds has pratically disappeared. Moreover, local Ogadzi citizens - who have seen how the Imperium is willing to punish large-scale terrorism - don't care to die because of some Church Militant stupidity, and have been pressuring their governments to sever all ties with the Church Militant. The Ogadzi governments, however, like the idea of a pernament "live-fire training unit" for their own special forces to work in, and have resisted public pressure up to now. Ogadzi taxation levels are too low to afford a major propaganda campaign ( biblical law forbids unified government taxation hitting 10%+ ), so the governments are always trying to sway various "opinion leaders" to soothe public fears and encourage support for the Church Militant. Most of these opinion leaders, however, loathe the Church Militant, viewing it as fundamentally lawless, and thus unbiblical. Alvin Plummer ------------------------------ End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1817 *********************************** To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command: unsubscribe traveller-digest in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller": subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest" in the commands above with "traveller". Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:06:43 -0800 To: Kagehira@aol.com From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest) (by way of Keith Johnson ) Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1818 Traveller-digest Wednesday, January 26 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1818 (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises. All rights reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Psionics Re: Imperial Politics Query for Mr Plummer Re: THUDDD News Re: Traveller week day names [was Norse religions] Re: Traveller week day names re: Psionics Re: The Traveller Adventure Re: Query for Mr Plummer Re: Query for Mr Plummer RE: Query for Mr Plummer Re: Query for Mr Plummer OT : Linux/Wine Re: Psionics Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1817 Re: OT : Linux/Wine Re: Not Really Norse Days RE: Big Computers Player Solicitation [PBEM.TNEC2] Are you ready for adventure? Re: Big Computers Re: Query for Mr Plummer Re: Query for Mr Plummer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:08:44 -0800 From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) Subject: Re: Psionics >From: Peter Newman >Subject: Re: Psionics ... >Of course this begs the question of if putting a psi shield >on a ship or vehicle protects its controls against >being controlled by telekinesis. I think game balance I would think so; the trick becomes creating a shielded hand grenade with no external controls :) Ditto safeties... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:50:31 -0800 From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) Subject: Re: Imperial Politics >From: Robert Prior >Subject: Imperial Politics (was: Traveller varients of Christianity (endless)) ... >IMTU the Imperium is, essentially, a fascist government. Benevolent mostly, >with some local oppressions, but definately fascist. The economy is >controlled by the megacorps, with overrides by the nobility. Given the >fluidity of capital ("Money has no home and it has no nation; it has no >friends and it won't stay long." -- The Oyster Band), the nobles serve to "Big Money got a mighty voice; Big Money make no sound..." -- RUSH. That's an awfully negative view you have of your Empire, citizen. Almost subversive, even... ...lucky for you they forgot how to deal with that sort of scum back around Adventure 1 . I guess the cost of Kinunir class prison hulks was enough to make them liberalize? :> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:57:43 -0900 From: "William F. Hostman" Subject: Query for Mr Plummer Alvin: how much more of your sector are you planning on posting? Personally, I think it belongs on a website... I'm not reading it myself, just as I used to skip the RICE papers in total), but am curious as to how much more I'm gonna have to skip there will be. Obviously, there seems to be a lot of work, and I've yet to see any other comment upon it... William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click interface!" Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- 533 Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+ IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:28:35 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: THUDDD News - -----Original Message----- From: Jason T. Barnabas To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Saturday, 26 February 2000 3:18 Subject: THUDDD News >Old News: >THUDDD 9 & 10 results have been posted. Follow the >links from the homepage. Is that supposed to be an evangelists home page? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:31:19 +0000 From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk Subject: Re: Traveller week day names [was Norse religions] >There's something that impresses me about Traveller: >its calendar is antiseptic, sterile. Look at the weekdays: > >oneday, twoday, threeday, fourday... > Is that from the T4 book? The MT Ref Companion has a slightly different terminology: Wonday, Tuday, Thirday, Forday, Fiday, Sixday, Senday (and of course Holiday at the start of the year). I appreciate it's not hugely more interesting, but not quite as dull as the T4 calendar. I didn't notice the discrepancy until just a couple of weeks ago when I was checking so that I could label diary entries with week day names. Odd how it then happens to come up as a discussion. tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:33:49 +0100 From: Jens Rydholm Subject: Re: Traveller week day names Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk wrote: > >oneday, twoday, threeday, fourday... > > Is that from the T4 book? The MT Ref Companion has a slightly > different terminology: > > Wonday, Tuday, Thirday, Forday, Fiday, Sixday, Senday (and of course > Holiday at the start of the year). Yes, that was from the T4 book. The reason that the names are different is that they have changed slightly over the few hundred years that have passed between T4 and MT. /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:15:21 -0500 From: "Smith, Walter" Subject: re: Psionics Luther Martin wrote: >What about this defense against teleporting Zhodani commandoes? You >randomly cycle the artificial gravity on your ship over a range of about >plus or minus 1% (or whatever range it takes to get the desired effect) >around the comfortable 1 g. > >Are there any obvious problems with this strategy? Interesting. I wonder how much change in altitude is required to get a 1% change in gravity? Artificial gravity breaks conservation of energy in a couple of ways, so the artificial type might not change potential energy - if that were the case, the tactic wouldn't work, otherwise it might be just the trick. This will then require two things to make it work: Grav plates with short enough latency periods to allow cycling (especially important in TU's where inertial comp and artificial grav are seperate systems). Restriction of effect to rooms with no crewmen in them. Rapid changes in gravity are likely to cause debilitating motion sickness and movement hazards for crew subjected to them - in some ways, it's a lightweight version of "grav pong". Walt Smith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:24:47 -0700 From: Glenn St-Germain Subject: Re: The Traveller Adventure >Amazingly enough: > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0139302719/qid=948860832/sr=1-4/103- 0012129-0123839 > >Don't hold your breath though, it is 771,176th on their sales rank (at >least it's ranked). It's also listed as Out Of Print. - -- g Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn "There is no longer any normal to be" -- Gary Numan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:36:36 -0700 (MST) From: Bruce Johnson Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer Uuuuhhh, Alvin, go on posting! I _am_ reading it...GREAT STUFF! Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, William F. Hostman wrote: > Alvin: > how much more of your sector are you planning on posting? > Personally, I think it belongs on a website... I'm not reading it myself, > just as I used to skip the RICE papers in total), but am curious as to how > much more I'm gonna have to skip there will be. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:56:11 -0500 From: "Chris Seamans" Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer From: William F. Hostman > Personally, I think it belongs on a website. C'mon, it surely belongs on the list. > I'm not reading it myself, just as I used to skip the RICE papers in > total), Ah, your loss I guess! :) I'd be hardpressed to find Traveller materials, published or not, which impacted me the same way as the RICE papers. > Obviously, there seems to be a lot of work, and I've yet to see any > other comment upon it... I suspect that's because the posts are rather large and daunting, and they're awfully complete. I'm going to see if I have any questions for Alvin when he's done, as he has already answered some of them before I even asked them. :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:18:44 -0800 From: "Tsykoduk" Subject: RE: Query for Mr Plummer I agree that I like to see it posted here. Only one request - I really really wish that he would have (or would start, nudge nudge, wink wink, yaknowwhatImean, yaknowwhatImean) posting them all under one subject - as I thread out this high bandwith list, it would make them all eaiser to find :) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Chris Seamans Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 6:56 AM To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer From: William F. Hostman > Personally, I think it belongs on a website. C'mon, it surely belongs on the list. > I'm not reading it myself, just as I used to skip the RICE papers in > total), Ah, your loss I guess! :) I'd be hardpressed to find Traveller materials, published or not, which impacted me the same way as the RICE papers. > Obviously, there seems to be a lot of work, and I've yet to see any > other comment upon it... I suspect that's because the posts are rather large and daunting, and they're awfully complete. I'm going to see if I have any questions for Alvin when he's done, as he has already answered some of them before I even asked them. :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:51:07 -0800 From: "J. Paul Sanders" Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer At 07:36 AM 1/26/00 -0700, you wrote: >Uuuuhhh, Alvin, go on posting! I _am_ reading it...GREAT STUFF! > >Bruce Johnson I agree - great stuff Alvin, keep it coming! Paul Sanders ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:03:13 -0500 From: "Jory Earl" Subject: OT : Linux/Wine I just read in ZDNET's "Computer Shopper" that a program for Linux called "WINE" allows all DOS, Win 3.xx and Win 9x programs to be ran on Linux without changing their code. A further claim is made that when run they inherit Linux's benefits such as stability. What have you all found to be true? If this is truth as written, I am going to move to Linux. ___________________________________________________________ J-Man ICQ# 2843475 New Hampshire - U.S.A. Email : j-man@iname.com Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/ ___________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:05:28 -0500 From: "Jory Earl" Subject: Re: Psionics Teleporting Zho commandos reminds me of the "S'Cotar", a race of tall, green bug-like aliens from the Stephen Ames Berry AI Wars saga. The caveat used there is that the S'Cotar could not teleport through active shields. ___________________________________________________________ J-Man ICQ# 2843475 New Hampshire - U.S.A. Email : j-man@iname.com Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/ ___________________________________________________________ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Smith, Walter" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: re: Psionics > Luther Martin wrote: > >What about this defense against teleporting Zhodani commandoes? You > >randomly cycle the artificial gravity on your ship over a range of about > >plus or minus 1% (or whatever range it takes to get the desired effect) > >around the comfortable 1 g. > > > >Are there any obvious problems with this strategy? > > Interesting. I wonder how much change in altitude is required to get > a 1% change in gravity? > > Artificial gravity breaks conservation of energy in a couple of ways, > so the artificial type might not change potential energy - if that > were the case, the tactic wouldn't work, otherwise it might be just > the trick. > > This will then require two things to make it work: > > Grav plates with short enough latency periods to allow cycling > (especially important in TU's where inertial comp and artificial > grav are seperate systems). > > Restriction of effect to rooms with no crewmen in them. Rapid changes > in gravity are likely to cause debilitating motion sickness and > movement hazards for crew subjected to them - in some ways, it's a > lightweight version of "grav pong". > > Walt Smith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:16:14 -0500 From: Ethan Henry Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1817 > Amazingly enough: > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0139302719/qid=948860832/sr=1-4/103-0012129-0123839 Even more amazingly: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0943580714/qid=948903141/sr=1-4/104-0902002-0506012 Referees Companion by Miller, Marc W. Miller, James Holloway (Illustrator) Our Price: $10.00 Availability: This title usually ships within 2-3 days. Wow! I'm so tempted to try ordering one. :) Ethan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:37:14 +0100 From: Jens Rydholm Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine Jory Earl wrote: > I just read in ZDNET's "Computer Shopper" that a program for Linux > called "WINE" allows all DOS, Win 3.xx and Win 9x programs to be ran > on Linux without changing their code. A further claim is made that > when run they inherit Linux's benefits such as stability. WINE has some problems with Direct-X at the moment (meaning that certain types of applications, ie games, are harder to handle, sometimes not possible to run). The stability that is inherited is that if the program crashes, it dumps only WINE, not your entire machine. Programs still crash as often as in Windows though, since they think they ARE running in Windows... And of course the whole thing runs a lot slower, since it is an emulator, and some system resources are handling other things (ie Linux). /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:41:30 -0800 From: "Luther Martin" Subject: Re: Not Really Norse Days Chris Seamans wrote: > The Norse folks happened to keep the old gods alive. Modern English folk > etymology makes the claim that the names are Norse, since the Names of the > Norse gods are in everyone's minds, but that's just 'cause the English > forgot where *they* came from! :) Do you have some sort of reference for this? I checked the Oxford English Dictionary last night, which is certainly more than folk etymology, and found only the reference to Old Norse origins. I am not trying to be a pain in the neck, but am genuinely interested in etymology. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:41:58 -0000 From: "Mark Preston" Subject: RE: Big Computers IMTU I assume (as is really the case) that smaller components are more vulnerable to the energy / particles scooting about there in space. So, in a starship, you can't use quantum devices easily and anything with components smaller than 0.8 microns (the size of the transistors on an Intel 486 chip) needs shielding. Using superconductors helps with the power requirements and means you can use optical circuitry in some places - all of which needs support gear. So - starships controlled by maybe a couple of dozen modules the size of a large book, support circuitry, power, cooling and shielding around them. Plenty of space for maintenance access is needed, as well as the workstation space. I assume that all that means you need the tonnage as in the book. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of > Roger Barr > Sent: 25 January 2000 14:16 > To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com > Subject: Re:Big Computers > > > > While I think you are correct in your reasoning, I would > like to point > out that tiny computers were present in *science fiction* > at the time > Traveller was first being written. Why were jump drive, fusion power > and other speculative technologies included in the game, while tiny > computes were not? Sure, it's probably because the authors > didn't think > of it, but we can still have fun with it. > > Making tiny computers somewhat fragile also helps to get rid of the > "why not just crew my starship with a bunch of robots" problem > somewhat. > > Walt Smith > > > I had actually been thinking that alot of the mass of the > computer might be > related to shielding materials to insure the protection of > such a vital > component in the ship from the harmful effects of jumpspace > (& realspace) > travel. Also consider the possiblity of redundancy systems > as well as the > pile of microprocessors for all of the other onboard > systems. IMTU, If the > computer is removed or totally destroyed, the vessel goes NOWHERE. > > Roger Barr > TravelerGM@aol.com > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:38:26 -0400 From: Michel Vaillancourt Subject: Player Solicitation [PBEM.TNEC2] Are you ready for adventure? >Are you bored with your current situation? >Are you tired of endless paperwork that doesn't mean anything? >Are you Ready for Adventure? >If so, and you are interested in deep space exploration.. then we have a >position that might interest you... >The "Aisuru", a Silk Road Class Trade Explorer has just been commissioned to >explore uncharted space and is looking for experienced and professional crew >in the following positions: > >1 - Pilot >4 - Engineers >5 - Gunner-Marines (at least one with experience in the handling of ATVs) >2 - Flight section crewmembers (one of which must be able to operate a >Modular Cutter) >2 - Service Personnel > >As well we are seeking experienced people to fill the following positions: >3 - Survey Scientists >1 - Medic, and >1 - Steward > >If these positions interest you, then please contact Meiyu O'Connel of the >Trade Explorer "Aisuru" > >***** ListServ based game, intend rate of play of one turn per week. Character Generation is CT "standard"... "Basic 6" careers plus the optionals from "Citizens of the Imperium" supplement. Millieu is my TNEC universe; see SIG for support website. No CT experience required, just role-playing experience and enthusiasm. Send e-mail to myself indicating, in decending order of preference, which spots you'd like. Openings for five PCs. --Michel -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+- Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca ICQ # 31172292 "Reality Error in Progress.... ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin" -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+- Cyberpunk: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020 Traveller: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller AD&D: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+- ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails *** -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:16:19 -0700 From: Bruce Johnson Subject: Re: Big Computers Mark Preston wrote: > > IMTU I assume (as is really the case) that smaller components are more > vulnerable to the energy / particles scooting about there in space. > So, in a starship, you can't use quantum devices easily and anything > with components smaller than 0.8 microns (the size of the transistors > on an Intel 486 chip) needs shielding. Using superconductors helps > with the power requirements and means you can use optical circuitry in > some places - all of which needs support gear. Minor problem with this...if your electronics are being zapped by such radiation as to require special shielding, your Travellers will all die early deaths from cancer. We worry about people spending 6 months in space; I suspect a society that has members who spend their entires lives there have licked the shielding problem... Then again...maybe this is one of the causes of the massive die-off during chargen ;-) My personal handwave is that the mass of Traveller computers includes: The CPU storage subsytems offline storage space (Tape racks and safes) UPS'es all the cabling networking gear (hubs, routers, switches, etc) including the UPS'es for _them_ all the terminals (remember there are terms in every stateroom, and many more scattered throughout the working spaces of the ships) miscellaneous peripherals (printers, scanners, etc) the Sysadmins cube, and last, but hardly least, the Sysadmin's LART rack (oops! that's covered under 'Ships Armory' ;-) - -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:11:42 -0000 From: "Matthew Bond" Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer Well, you could set your mail reader to filter anything with madoc in the subject to a subfolder. That's what I'm doing. In outlook express you would go: Tools Inbox assistant Add in subject type: madoc in Perform these actions tick move to or copy to click folder browse to where you want the new subfolder to appear new folder type in name of new folder eg: Sectors OK each dialogue box until you have closed them all Next time you download, anything with madoc in the subject will be filtered to the new directory. HTH Matt - -----Original Message----- From: Tsykoduk To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com Date: 26 January 2000 15:20 Subject: RE: Query for Mr Plummer >I agree that I like to see it posted here. Only one request - I really >really wish that he would have (or would start, nudge nudge, wink wink, >yaknowwhatImean, yaknowwhatImean) posting them all under one subject - as I >thread out this high bandwith list, it would make them all eaiser to find :) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com >[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Chris >Seamans >Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 6:56 AM >To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com >Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer > > >From: William F. Hostman > > >> Personally, I think it belongs on a website. > >C'mon, it surely belongs on the list. > >> I'm not reading it myself, just as I used to skip the RICE papers in >> total), > >Ah, your loss I guess! :) > >I'd be hardpressed to find Traveller materials, published or not, which >impacted me the same way as the RICE papers. > >> Obviously, there seems to be a lot of work, and I've yet to see any >> other comment upon it... > >I suspect that's because the posts are rather large and daunting, and >they're awfully complete. I'm going to see if I have any questions for Alvin >when he's done, as he has already answered some of them before I even asked >them. :) > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:15:40 -0600 From: Eris Reddoch Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer In , on 01/25/00 at 10:57 PM, "William F. Hostman" said: >Alvin: >how much more of your sector are you planning on posting? >Personally, I think it belongs on a website... I'm not reading it myself, >just as I used to skip the RICE papers in total), but am curious as to >how much more I'm gonna have to skip there will be. I think it belongs on a website for more permanate display, but I *am* reading here and hope Alvin continues to post it. As a general statement, I much prefer long on-topic posts (even those I'm not *currently* interested in) to the blizzards of off-topic posts we so often get here. Yes, I know series posts like Alvin's take up bandwidth, but when they are on topic it's worth it...to me. Of course, everyone's MMV. >Obviously, there seems to be a lot of work, and I've yet to see any other >comment upon it... I'm still trying to take it all in. Eris - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- "Eris Reddoch" - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1818 *********************************** To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command: unsubscribe traveller-digest in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller": subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest" in the commands above with "traveller". Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1819
Date: 1/26/00 4:19:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Wednesday, January 26 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1819
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller week day names
Re: OT : Linux/Wine
Re: Alien barbeque ad
Re: Query for Mr Plummer
Alvin's Posts
Game Closed - Player Solicitation [PBEM.TNEC2] Are you ready for adventure?
Re: Alvin's Posts
Re: Tattoos of the future.
Re: OT : Linux/Wine
Re: Big Computers
Re Querey for Mr. Plummer
Re: Traveller week day names
Re: THUDDD News
Re: Query for Mr Plummer
Re: MT Damage
Re: Conspiracy campaign idea
Re: Norse religion
RE: Small change
Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
Re: OT : Linux/Wine
Re: OT : Linux/Wine
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:21:28 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Traveller week day names
In <388EDB9D.829DB36E@student.liu.se>, on 01/26/00
at 12:33 PM, Jens Rydholm said:
>Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk wrote:
>> >oneday, twoday, threeday, fourday...
>>
>> Is that from the T4 book? The MT Ref Companion has a slightly
>> different terminology:
>>
>> Wonday, Tuday, Thirday, Forday, Fiday, Sixday, Senday (and of course
>> Holiday at the start of the year).
>Yes, that was from the T4 book. The reason that the names are different
>is that they have changed slightly over the few hundred years that have
>passed between T4 and MT.
Yeah, sure! Nice handwave, there Jens.
I play outside the 3I, so calenders aren't always so uniform. Local
systems are going to have their own.
If you want to stay close to what you are familar with, but give it some
flavor, why don't you go to a 364 day year, with 13 months, each with 4
weeks, each with 7 days. Give each of the months a name based on
*something*...say an astrological sign, a constellation, a block of
elements, whatever. Then give the days a different set of names from those
we're use to.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:31:02 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine
In <01c801bf6816$d9a1ebe0$1afc8018@mediaone.net>, on 01/26/00
at 11:03 AM, "Jory Earl" said:
>I just read in ZDNET's "Computer Shopper" that a program for Linux called
>"WINE" allows all DOS, Win 3.xx and Win 9x programs to be ran on Linux
>without changing their code. A further claim is made that when run they
>inherit Linux's benefits such as stability.
>What have you all found to be true? If this is truth as written, I am
>going to move to Linux.
It's the truth...as far as it goes.
I've installed Wine and used it a little and it does work with *some*
Windows programs well, some more a little, and others not at all. I had
more luck with 3.x than 9x programs. To be honest, I didn't reinstall it
after my last round of format and reinstalling so I haven't worked with
the latest versions, but I feel confident in saying that WINE is a "work
in progess", it *is* progressing, but I don't know if it's ready for prime
time yet or not.
You might also want to look into "virtual machines", rather than
emulators. Look at http://www.vmware.com for a commercial "solution" to
running WinX programs on a Linux platform. VMware does work, and work
pretty well, if you have enough resources to through at it. OTOH, it is
optimized for business apps not DirectX games and may not handle them all
that well. A freeware solution is in early development, check
www.freemware.org still early days, but coming along.
Ob Traveller: The traveller may very well need to have a program in his
computer that quickly creates virtual machines or emulators for the local
architectures and software as he travels from world to world. If such a
program could be written, then upon arriving on a planet, out traveller
would download a template from the local computer net and allow his
program to construct a virtual machine to run on his computer. He would
then have access to all local software. Alternatively, a library of
virtual machines or emulators could be bought and sold and the traveller
would simply plug in the proper package to talk to the software on the
planet he is visiting.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:01:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Alien barbeque ad
>From: Glenn St-Germain
>... which brings to mind the idea of two K'Kree actors
>(captives) in a similar ad for some brand of barbeque or steak
>sauce... Though I doubt they'd be able to induce two K'Kree to
>extol the virtues of such a product...
You don't need actual actors for that; just use CGI.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:01:09 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
- -----Original Message-----
From: J. Paul Sanders
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Sunday, 27 February 2000 2:59
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
>At 07:36 AM 1/26/00 -0700, you wrote:
>>Uuuuhhh, Alvin, go on posting! I _am_ reading it...GREAT STUFF!
>>
>>Bruce Johnson
>
>I agree - great stuff Alvin, keep it coming!
>
>Paul Sanders
It's the only thing I AM reading
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:56:12 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: Alvin's Posts
Keep on a'posting, Alvin. There have been a number of folks who
dropped off of TML becuase they saw too much spam and too little
Traveller. Well, Alvin's work is definitely Traveller. I may
not use it myself, but I feel free to steal^h^h^h^h borrow some
ideas from his posts.
Steven Charlton
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:08:17 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Game Closed - Player Solicitation [PBEM.TNEC2] Are you ready for adventure?
We're full. Thanks very much for everyone's interest.
--Michel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:17:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: Alvin's Posts
I can't believe people are complaining-- I've saved every post.
Kiri =)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:42:57 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Tattoos of the future.
On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:47:41 -0500 (EST), "Chris Seamans"
wrote:
>From ABCNEWS.com, reprinted without permission.
> (Perhaps the Maxwell Smart of the 21st century won't use a
>shoe phone-he'll just whisper directly into his wrist).
Hmmm... Actually, if you get that far, why not just go the
commdot route - a speaker implanted against the skull just behind
the ear, a mic implanted on the throat near the pharynx, and a
multiplexer/txrx implanted anywhere convenient. A little
training of the user, and it could even respond to electrical
signals along the nerves...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:33:58 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine
Eris Reddoch wrote:
> Ob Traveller: The traveller may very well need to have a program in his
> computer that quickly creates virtual machines or emulators for the local
> architectures and software as he travels from world to world.
Unless you're buying software there that requires being run using the
local architecture, why? Simple communication, such as plugging into the
local net is abstracted as part of the networking protocols. You may,
at most, require a different protocol adapter ("Ack, whatever you do,
don't go to Borgnine; I had to install NetBEUI to access their net!
Yuck!" :-)
You might need to get one compiled for your computer architecture, a la
Mac vs PC vs Linux versions or forgo net connections if it's not
possible. BTW, 'simple communications' in TL12 terms is, I suspect,
pretty sophisticated, like what the Web could be if all promise of XML
holds true.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:50:32 GMT
From: Simon Early
Subject: Re: Big Computers
I used to think Traveller computers took up too much room until I
worked on my first big chemical plant (with sophisticated control
system via a PDP-11). Then I asked about the room next door.
On a state-of-the-art real-world chemical plant the "control system" is
huge. Each operator workstation is just a big screen and a keybord
(plus chair + desk), but the room next door is a vast cavern full of
silent rows of marshalling racks, UPS systems and the like ... it looks
like something from a 60's Sci Fi movie.
Even the next generation systems (where each instrument transmitter
acts like an IP node on a network, transmitting data via a single
network cable) end up in practice with hardly any saving in space
(despite the grand claims of the sales bods). I should know, I design
these beasties for a living.
Add onto this the typical "server room" (the size of a stateroom) with
RAID arrays, redundant servers, spare parts, extra HVAC and so on and
the Traveller ship-board computer is looking a bit small.
Simon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:32:30 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Querey for Mr. Plummer
>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:11:42 -0000
>From: "Matthew Bond"
>Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
>
>Well, you could set your mail reader to filter anything with madoc in the
>subject to a subfolder. That's what I'm doing.
Sorry, no can do. Am on digest mode. So I can download my TML reading in a
reasonable time. Typically, separate messages double to tripple the d/l
time. More (up to 20x) during peak hours, when compared to digests. Also, I
won't use Outlook, anyway... it is not only MacHumIntGL non-compliant, but
has shown a tendancy to do java even when you tell it not to (Have
experienced this, once. Will not give it the chance again).
Besides, as far as I'm concerned, there's a lot of "Wasteland" to cross in
normal digest contents. I'm merely trying to find out whether or not I
should unsub for a week, so alvin can dump this stuff on list. Of the last
4 digests, they have been almost 45% Alvin's stuff.
RICE papers, and stuff like alvin's, and stuff like doug's draft materials,
IMHO, should be posted to a web site, and URL's posted to the list. But I'm
biased. In any case, anything that long BELONGS on a traveller web-site,
without regaurd to whether or not it's posted on list.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:38:17 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Re: Traveller week day names
Poo! I'm a big calendar-reform freak, and prefer 10 months
of 35 days each. Nice and sterile.
Or, "who cares!"
Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> In <388EDB9D.829DB36E@student.liu.se>, on 01/26/00
> at 12:33 PM, Jens Rydholm said:
>
> >Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk wrote:
> >> >oneday, twoday, threeday, fourday...
> >>
> >> Is that from the T4 book? The MT Ref Companion has a slightly
> >> different terminology:
> >>
> >> Wonday, Tuday, Thirday, Forday, Fiday, Sixday, Senday (and of course
> >> Holiday at the start of the year).
>
> >Yes, that was from the T4 book. The reason that the names are different
> >is that they have changed slightly over the few hundred years that have
> >passed between T4 and MT.
>
> Yeah, sure! Nice handwave, there Jens.
>
> I play outside the 3I, so calenders aren't always so uniform. Local
> systems are going to have their own.
>
> If you want to stay close to what you are familar with, but give it some
> flavor, why don't you go to a 364 day year, with 13 months, each with 4
> weeks, each with 7 days. Give each of the months a name based on
> *something*...say an astrological sign, a constellation, a block of
> elements, whatever. Then give the days a different set of names from those
> we're use to.
>
> Eris
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> "Eris Reddoch"
> -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:36:15 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: THUDDD News
Oops! My apologies for having left off the thuddd/ directory
indicator. The space belongs to a client/friend of mine who
is allowing me to use some of his virtual space. These links
should work properly. Sorry for any inconvenience.
Old News:
THUDDD 9 & 10 results have been posted. Follow the
links from the homepage.
New News:
The robots I developed created almost as much work for
me as they eliminated, so, I have decided to try something
new (again :-).
If you would like to check out the new procedure, you can
download the ZIPped version (9.5 KB).
Or if you can't handle zipped files, you can download the
unZIPped version (70.4 KB).
Since it is in Rich Text Format, everyone should be able to
read it with no problem. If there are any questions, let me
know.
Entries for THUDDD 11 are being accepted as of now.
Entries will close as of the end of the month, barring any
unforeseen problems. The first peek should be available by
February 6th.
I still haven't heard anything concerning THUDDD 12, so I
don't know where we stand on that.
P.S.: In case you are wondering why the HTML tags have
been included above, it has come to my attention that there
are those on this list who are using AOL. I figured it would
be nice if they could just point and click like most of the rest
of us. If you have no idea what I'm talking about then you
are probably one of the people I included the tags for.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:46:35 -0500
From: "Michael Peters"
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
- ----- Original Message -----
From: William F. Hostman
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 2:57 AM
Subject: Query for Mr Plummer
> Alvin:
> how much more of your sector are you planning on posting?
> Personally, I think it belongs on a website... I'm not reading it myself,
> just as I used to skip the RICE papers in total), but am curious as to how
> much more I'm gonna have to skip there will be.
>
> Obviously, there seems to be a lot of work, and I've yet to see any other
> comment upon it...
>
> William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
> interface!"
> Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
> 533
> Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
> ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
> IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
> pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
Lessee, people yell if the posts aren't OT, then people yell about some very
entertaining and enlightening OT material... Presents a puzzle eh?
Well all I can say is that at least Mr. Plummer has the curtousy to put
subject lines on his posts so that the (apparently VERY) few that don't want
to read them don't have to open them to see what they are. And he doesn't
use an obnoxiuosly long sig.
Alvin, please keep up the posts, quite a lot of them have gone into my
background files.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:58:25 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: MT Damage
Dear Folks -
William said:
>Not dice, David, POINTS OF DAMAGE. The only place in MT where damage is in
>dice is when converting DP to Attribute losses.
[snip]
>If I understand what You (David) are doing, you're applying these as DICE
>of damage, which is, on average, multiplying everything by 3.5...
Sorry, William, wrong terminology, my bad. As an old AD&Der, I still *think* in
terms of "dice", even if I don't use them. I meant 30 Damage Points (DP).
Now, the _least_ ship weapon in MT (TL 9 laser) does 500 DP. For my money,
cutting this to 50 DP scales things back nicely. The TL 15 ship's fusion gun
does Pen 103 and 700 DP, which I reduce to 70 DP (actually I think that's 900
down to 90, but I don't have the actual stats on hand, you get the idea tho'.).
This is the BASE hit; if you roll well you can double, quadruple, or octuple the
damage (as you pointed out). That's enough for me.
(You may like to note that a _person_ doesn't care if they are hit by 30 DP or
50 DP, they are still going to be cactus).
[In comparison, a single TL 9 ship's laser (factor 1) against a scout ship (size
1 - no crits) will not frag it in HG. However if you use the MT system, 500 DP
_should_ frag it - I think the scout's hull, even errata'd, doesn't have 500 DP
even if you add Inop + Dest hull values].
The other bugbear I have is with MT's simplification of vehicular armour, so
that there is an overall AC rather than Striker's version. I know, I know, this
arguement has come up before, basically that "on a modern battlefield, you
cannot guarantee the direction the enemy will shoot from, and you need
all-around protection."
However, this makes the Trepida from 101 Vehicles a tin-can. Strewth, even the
lumbering old TL 11 Gram Grav Tank has an (overall!) AC 55! (I know, I've been
researching it for a game - oops, Michael Hughes, you didn't hear that! ;-) Why
is the Trepida's AC so low (AC 40)? I even came up with a spreadsheet (it's on
my site) to allow you to re-arrange the overall armour to something more
respectable. With this, it makes the Trepida into a tougher opponent.
YMMV. You may feel that the Trepida, as written, fills the role of the F-16 - a
cheap, almost throwaway fighter, in comparison to something like the F-14. This
means you would need to resurrect the huge old 20-ton main battle tank (as
described in Striker and the Regency Vehicle Guide).
I don't agree with that (just in case you missed it! ;-). I prefer to tweak the
MT Trepida to be more in line with the TNE Trepida - the Imperium's
_replacement_ for the lumbering old MBT.
I have to agree with William, in that I still think that MT, with all its
faults, is the best Traveller rules system. All it needs is the errata applied,
Joe Fugate's combat example included in the text, and a few final minor tweaks
(refer to the above discussion).
I still think it is The One.
(apart from the AD&D rules for Traveller [SEE Tavonni Repair Bays], useful for
comic relief characters when things get too serious! ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:05:00 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Conspiracy campaign idea
Dear Folks -
Jens wrote:
>Where exactly did the Droyne homeworld go anyway? :-)
Into the pocket universe near Shionthy. Well, according to Marc, anyway...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:13:37 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Norse religion
Dear Folks -
Jens wrote:
>Bj?rn (exactly the same word as our word for "bear")
Hence "Bjornoya", Bear Island, the island where Tavonni's main starport is
located. After all, the 'port is owned by an ex-Sword Worlder...
(the original island is in the Bering Sea)
>Sten ("stone")
Ooh! ooh! More Sword Worlder - sorry, Scandinavian - names, please please!!
(Apart from Heidi and Beowulf von Heyerdahl, best I could come up with was a
ship's pilot known as "Eyemfrom De Norf")
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:38:39 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: RE: Small change
Dear Folks -
Rupert wrote:
>>And in any case, we have
>> the highest number of ATM's/EFTPOS per capita, and even the outback
>> stations have 'em!
>
>Actually we've got lots of them, too. Mostly in the big towns where
>there are plenty of banks, though.
I think _we_ supplied some of the stations with EFTPOS machines - made it easier
for us, and quicker for clients (cheque = physically printed in Darwin, flown to
remote stations by plane, missed flight = no money; whereas direct credit =
overnight deposit straight to banks via RBA, trickle-fed into bank a/c's the
same night or early next day).
>But I thought all the Greeks lived in Sydney :) Or does that count as
>o/s?
That's Melbourne. And yes.
;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:43:11 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
Dear Folks -
Rupert wrote:
>> Also, read David Drake's "Forlorn Hope" for an example of *why* folks who
>> don't have starships *really& don't want to be shooting atr them.
[snip]
>> The rest of the book is the mercs trying to escape and evade to a
>> neutral port so they can get offworld.
>
>If you ask me that's a serious case of bad losers.
Aah, you haven't read the book and seen the bad guys yet... they made most of
the Nazis look good, in comparison.
"Forlorn Hope", a scenario I've always wanted to drop onto a bunch of PC's...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:48:26 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine
On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:31:02 -0600, Eris Reddoch
wrote:
>
>Ob Traveller: The traveller may very well need to have a program in his
>computer that quickly creates virtual machines or emulators for the local
>architectures and software as he travels from world to world. If such a
>program could be written, then upon arriving on a planet, out traveller
>would download a template from the local computer net and allow his
>program to construct a virtual machine to run on his computer. He would
>then have access to all local software. Alternatively, a library of
>virtual machines or emulators could be bought and sold and the traveller
>would simply plug in the proper package to talk to the software on the
>planet he is visiting.
>
Ah ha! The REAL reason trav computers are so big: storage space for
all the VM's & emulators that might be used in the 3I! ;-)
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you when you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;"
-"Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:25:54 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine
Actually, the article expressly stated it was not an emulator and that it
did not take a performance hit in speed because it wasn't emulating. In
fact, WINE stands for Windows is not an Emulator. Again, according to the
article.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jens Rydholm"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine
> Jory Earl wrote:
> > I just read in ZDNET's "Computer Shopper" that a program for Linux
> > called "WINE" allows all DOS, Win 3.xx and Win 9x programs to be ran
> > on Linux without changing their code. A further claim is made that
> > when run they inherit Linux's benefits such as stability.
>
> WINE has some problems with Direct-X at the moment (meaning that certain
> types of applications, ie games, are harder to handle, sometimes not
> possible to run).
>
> The stability that is inherited is that if the program crashes, it dumps
> only WINE, not your entire machine. Programs still crash as often as in
> Windows though, since they think they ARE running in Windows...
>
> And of course the whole thing runs a lot slower, since it is an
> emulator, and some system resources are handling other things (ie
> Linux).
>
> /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1819
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, January 26 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1820
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Query for Mr Plummer
Re: Query for Mr Plummer
Re: OT : Linux/Wine
Re: Alvin's Posts
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: Psionics
Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
Re: Not Really Norse Days
Re: Query for Mr. Plummer - reply
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED School attempt
Re: OT : Linux/Wine
Madoc subsector: Senior nobility and viewpoints on the Imperium
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:30:04 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
How can I do this for saving files in TEXT format in different directories?
Say, save a personal letter in PERSONAL, a Traveller email in TRAVELLER,
etc?
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Bond"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
> Well, you could set your mail reader to filter anything with madoc in the
> subject to a subfolder. That's what I'm doing.
> In outlook express you would go:
>
> Tools
> Inbox assistant
> Add
> in subject type: madoc
> in Perform these actions tick move to or copy to
> click folder
> browse to where you want the new subfolder to appear
> new folder
> type in name of new folder eg: Sectors
> OK each dialogue box until you have closed them all
>
> Next time you download, anything with madoc in the subject will be
filtered
> to the new directory.
>
> HTH
>
> Matt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tsykoduk
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Date: 26 January 2000 15:20
> Subject: RE: Query for Mr Plummer
>
>
> >I agree that I like to see it posted here. Only one request - I really
> >really wish that he would have (or would start, nudge nudge, wink wink,
> >yaknowwhatImean, yaknowwhatImean) posting them all under one subject - as
I
> >thread out this high bandwith list, it would make them all eaiser to find
> :)
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> >[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Chris
> >Seamans
> >Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 6:56 AM
> >To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> >Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
> >
> >
> >From: William F. Hostman
> >
> >
> >> Personally, I think it belongs on a website.
> >
> >C'mon, it surely belongs on the list.
> >
> >> I'm not reading it myself, just as I used to skip the RICE papers in
> >> total),
> >
> >Ah, your loss I guess! :)
> >
> >I'd be hardpressed to find Traveller materials, published or not, which
> >impacted me the same way as the RICE papers.
> >
> >> Obviously, there seems to be a lot of work, and I've yet to see any
> >> other comment upon it...
> >
> >I suspect that's because the posts are rather large and daunting, and
> >they're awfully complete. I'm going to see if I have any questions for
> Alvin
> >when he's done, as he has already answered some of them before I even
asked
> >them. :)
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:30:55 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
I'm glad Alvin is posting this stuff too, I can always you it to flesh out
my traveller universe.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Eris Reddoch"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
> In , on 01/25/00
> at 10:57 PM, "William F. Hostman" said:
>
> >Alvin:
> >how much more of your sector are you planning on posting?
> >Personally, I think it belongs on a website... I'm not reading it myself,
> >just as I used to skip the RICE papers in total), but am curious as to
> >how much more I'm gonna have to skip there will be.
>
> I think it belongs on a website for more permanate display, but I *am*
> reading here and hope Alvin continues to post it.
>
> As a general statement, I much prefer long on-topic posts (even those I'm
> not *currently* interested in) to the blizzards of off-topic posts we so
> often get here. Yes, I know series posts like Alvin's take up bandwidth,
> but when they are on topic it's worth it...to me. Of course, everyone's
> MMV.
>
> >Obviously, there seems to be a lot of work, and I've yet to see any other
> >comment upon it...
>
> I'm still trying to take it all in.
>
> Eris
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> "Eris Reddoch"
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:34:02 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine
What if a party of PCs crashed on a planet far off the beaten path and their
computer software was all fired so they couldn't lift ship and were
stranded? Then say they found an alien derelict with Nav software that
might help them IF they could figure out how to run it on their own
computer?
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Eris Reddoch"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine
> Ob Traveller: The traveller may very well need to have a program in his
> computer that quickly creates virtual machines or emulators for the local
> architectures and software as he travels from world to world. If such a
> program could be written, then upon arriving on a planet, out traveller
> would download a template from the local computer net and allow his
> program to construct a virtual machine to run on his computer. He would
> then have access to all local software. Alternatively, a library of
> virtual machines or emulators could be bought and sold and the traveller
> would simply plug in the proper package to talk to the software on the
> planet he is visiting.
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:39:21 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Alvin's Posts
My position: Alvin's posts are unquestionably ontopic and, as such,
are unimpeachable. However, I'd find them more convenient on a web
site - I find myself reading about three lines, then mine eyes
glazeth over, and I scroll past.
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:46:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
In mail you write:
> Richard Martin wrote:
>>Homo sapiens pay a large price for their brains. First is the question
>>of maturity at birth. In order for women to give live birth the human
>>infant is basically born 3 months premature in order to get the large
>>braincase through the rather small opening forced on humans because of
>>their bipedality.
>
> Now that makes me think. What if a post-human race decided to get
> around this limit by not being bipedal any more?
Actually, it'd be *much* simpler to just relocate the vaginal opening
*above* the pubic bone. That gets rid of the size limitation.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:35:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Psionics
In mail you write:
>
>
> What about this defense against teleporting Zhodani commandoes? You randomly
> cycle the artificial gravity on your ship over a range of about plus or
> minus 1% (or whatever range it takes to get the desired effect) around the
> comfortable 1 g. If your commando is on a planet's surface, he can't change
> elevation much without having to worry about the effects of changing
> potential energy. On a ship with artificial gravity, the same principle must
> apply, but we are now changing the gravity instead. So it will be likely
> that a commando who teleports onto your ship will likely be fried in some
> unpleasant way.
>
> Are there any obvious problems with this strategy?
If the commando has to worry about potential energy, he also has to
worry about *kinetic* energy. So unless the place he's porting from and
the target are *at rest* with respect to each other, he's got real
problems.
Also, note that porting from place to place on a planet's surface has
problems because the speed that the surface is moving at changes with
latitude (0 at poles, max at equator), and even at the same latitude,
the *direction* varies with longitude.
So, for example, at the equator, if you port from 0 longitude to 180
longitude, you'll arrive going 1000 mph in one direction, while the
ground is going 1000 mph in the *opposite* direction. Ouch!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 04:22:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Official Missile Debate Thread for 2000
In mail you write:
> On 24 Jan 00, at 0:00, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Or check the real world. Tank guns back in to old days went up to
>> around 90-100 mm. Battleship guns went up to 500 mm. And some of the
>> *big* guns went higher than *that* (coast defense, that German monster
>> that used shells the size of tanks...)
>
> The biggest battleship guns were the Yamoto's at 18.1" or 460mm.
> IIRC one of the German WWII tank destroyers had a 128mm gun.
> But that's still a factor of 4 - which (assuming similar ammo) is a
> factor of 64 in terms of throw weight.
And there are monsters like "Peter" which threw those ungodly monster shells.
>> Also, read David Drake's "Forlorn Hope" for an example of *why* folks who
>> don't have starships *really& don't want to be shooting atr them.
>>
>> Basicly, a starship gets used as a "megaweapon" to bombard ground
>> forces. A new crewman on a merc unit's *big* artillery device happens to
>> be sitting at the controls and *recognize* the initial reentry flash. He
>> flips the gun to anti-air mode and starts it shooting. It gets a lucky hit
>> and *kills* the starship.
>>
>> This means that the enemy is out a billion credit starship. And they
>> aren't happy. The amnesty that gets proclaimed (the ship *did* mangle the
>> rebel forces pretty good) *specifically* doesn't include the unit that
>> shot down the starship.
>>
>> The rest of the book is the mercs trying to escape and evade to a
>> neutral port so they can get offworld.
>
> If you ask me that's a serious case of bad losers. If you're going to
> use a billion dollar starship as a weapons system you should be
> willing to accept the fact that you may lose it. Mind you it's a fairly
> common attitude - just look at the fuss every time some thrid worlder
> manages to shoot down a US Air Force aircraft (never mind what it
> was about to do to the thrid worlder and his mates).
Which is the whole point, in a way. If you are lowly mercs, you'd
better be careful not to "annoy" any of the big guys.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:48:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Not Really Norse Days
In mail you write:
>>The Egyptians came up with the seven day week
>
> I thought evidence showed that the 7day week came from an earlier period.
> It was in use in the Fertile Crescent, very early on.
The 7-day week is widespread because it's based on the 7 "classical"
planets. That is the 7 objects in the sky which move relative to the
stars.
The sun is the most obvious.
Then the Moon, Venus, Jupiter, Mars, Mercury, Saturn.
It doesn't hurt that 7 days is close to a moon quarter.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:11:43 -0500
From: "Alvin"
Subject: Re: Query for Mr. Plummer - reply
Hi TML,
I shall keep on posting, and I will be sure to
put the keyword "Madoc" in the subject heading.
If popular demand requests it, I'll make all subject
heading exactly the same. I'm only hesitant to
do this because it makes it hard to know what a
particular post is about.
I don't expect most people to play the setting "as is",
unless both the Referee and his player group is definitely
Christian-oriented (anyone play's Traveller with a church
group? This would make a *fine* setting...)
I hope, however, that enough interesting ideas will
be found in these posts to 'plug in' to any campaign,
"sacred or secular".
Incidentally, my posts on Madoc is definitely NOT canon:
there is an "Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora Sector" out
there, which I have never seen, and expect will contradict
everything I have written except maybe the UWP's.
The setting is GURPS Traveller, around 1120: the info can
be easily modified to suit your particular setting (and I
have the Milleu:0 setting covered, too!)
Alvin Plummer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:15:21 +1100
From: "Hughes, Michael"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED School attempt
Here's my crack at a school (however it is Milieu 0 system specific but
readily adaptable)
School Name: Sylean Federation Vacuum Mining School
Location: Kuunen Ish (Core 2318 B210666-8 Na Ni 413 M4 V M7 D M5 D)
Tech Level: 8-C (world is Tech 8 but the school uses equipment covering the
broad range of tech levels)
Status: Technical Institute
Degrees offered: Technical Diploma (2 year school). Bachelor of Science,
Vacuum Mining (4 year school)
Number of students/faculty: Minimum 380 students, 15 faculty. Maximum 600
students, 20 faculty.
Noteworthy Programs: See below.
Admission Requirements: None
Perseverance: 8-, DM+1 if END 7+, DM +2 if EDU 8+
Flunked out: If diploma, one year spent. If degree, D3 years.
Honours: 5-, DM +1 if INT 9+ (If successful then gain an additional skill
roll for Diploma, 2 for Degree)
Skills: One skill level in Vacuum suit for 1st year. 1 skill level per year
of attendance for remainder.
Die Skill Table
1 Vacuum Suit
2 Environmental Combat (High, Low G and Zero G applicable only),
3 Geology
4 Geology
5 *Technical*
6 *Technical*
The Sylean Federation Vacuum Mining School is handily located on Kunneh Ish,
a system directly governed by the Sylean Federation (and later Imperium) and
location of the federation's largest penal colony. The school teaches
techniques and methodology for the extraction of ores on vacuum worlds or
asteroid fields (there is a campus located in the system's asteroid belt for
this purpose). The school relies on corporate sponsorship and offer
scholarships for the more promising students (which in turn means 4 year
service upon graduation to that company).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:45:48 -0700
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger"
Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine
> I just read in ZDNET's "Computer Shopper" that a program for Linux called
> "WINE" allows all DOS, Win 3.xx and Win 9x programs to be ran on Linux
> without changing their code. A further claim is made that when run they
> inherit Linux's benefits such as stability.
>
> What have you all found to be true? If this is truth as written, I am going
> to move to Linux.
It was originally intended to supply a native environment for Windows 3.x programs to run on Linux. Lately, they've been adding *some* Win9x support to it. It's still considered 'late alpha', so YMMV with it. And a further warning: Sometimes new patches to fix old bugs break the current WINE, reintroducing some old bugs. But considering this puppy is *free*, well...
Keven
- --
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Science-Fiction Adventure
In Reavers' Deep
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:04:19 -0500
From: "Alvin"
Subject: Madoc subsector: Senior nobility and viewpoints on the Imperium
The Imperium, Senior Nobility and Madoc Subsector
The Imperium itself:
Ogadzi Christians used to loathe the Imperium, considering it
some kind of powerhungry monstrocity, challenging God
Himself for rulership of the heavens.
After being under Imperial rule for over a century now, their
attitudes have mellowed. The Imperium isn't interested in
attacking local beliefs, or forcing them to conform to some
'enlightened' from of living: all they are really interested in is
making sure that the Emperor get's his 2%, planetary taxes
are paid promptly, trade flows smoothly, and the Imperial Navy
isn't challanged.
Moreover, the Ogadzi simply don't have anywhere else to go:
even if the Solomani Confederation reconquer's the subsector, the
mixed-race nature of the Ogadzi will insure their second-class citizenship
in the Confederation, granting them less freedom than they have under
the Imperium. The fact that the Confederation is more openly religious
than the Imperial government doesn't soften the injustice.
There is still a general suspicion of Imperial power and morality,
including the universal belief that the Imperium is lacking in godliness
and needs a proper respect for the Sacred and Divine Law. However,
the Ogadzi *does* view Imperial rule as basically legitimate: this is
the major reason why Imperial officers can leave their bases without
fear of attack. They still keep their women (and young boys) far
away from visiting Imperial soldiers and civilians, however.
The average Kelvinite is definitely aware of the Imperium,
having suffered an Imperial orbital bombardment at 1073, at the cost
of a billion killed. However, most people just try to get on with
their lives, and try to forget about the past. When pressed, they
will say that the Imperium is an irrational association of thugs,
which must be borne temporarily until the Mind completely
frees itself from the chains of ignorance. As pureblooded
Solomani, they still have a soft spot for the Confederacy, but
have shifted their attention to more important things.
The Vacare are solid loyalists to the Imperium, depending on
the Imperial Navy as 'the first line of defense' against the Christian
systems in the subsector. Uniformed Imperial personnel are granted
special favours, and Vacare systems are quick to give the Imperium
any requested assistance. Kaesong, the subsector capital, isn't nearly so
fauning over Imperial personnel, but are still solid supporters of the
Imperium. However, with the Ogadzi moving in, they are becoming
less so over time.
Very few Imperials out of the subsector are even aware of Madoc's
existance. The very few that remember hearing of Madoc is
due to one of two reasons 1) Kelvin was the base of a bunch of expert,
city-killing terrorists which terrorized Diapsora Sector about fifty years
ago, 2) a very hardcore religion, the Ismya Christians, are based there.
If the Imperial is from Diaspora, they might work with an Ogadzi, and
have more informed opinions about the subsector.
Strephon:
Emperor of the Third Imperium, Archduke of Sylea, and an entire
slew of lesser titles that even Strephon doesn't always remember.
By and large, local Ismya Christians feel that Strephon is doing
a fairly good job ruling the stars, for a Vilani-style ritualist. He
leaves their government, culture, and religion alone, they pay
their taxes, all is well.
When they feel that the Emperor is steeping out of his bounds
as a ruler, they refer to him as 'Pharoah'. This term is also used
when Imperial Cultists [ Worshippers of the Emperor and/or the
Imperium ] are within earshot.
When the Emperor does something Ismya Christians greatly
approve of, they call him "Lord of the Fleets". ( God Himself is
referred to as the _High King of Heaven_, when the discussion
centres on political matters. ) In regular conversation, they
just call Strephon 'The Emperor', like everyone else does.
Kelvinites are hardly aware of even the name of the Emperor:
he is just a symbol of the hated Imperium to them, not a real
man with a personality. The Vacare respect the Emperor,
but aren't all that interested in him, as long as the his Navy
is around to protect them.
Emperor Strephon, in turn, is hardly aware that Madoc subsector
even exists: it's just a name on a starmap, nothing more.
Adair:
Archduke of Sol, Grand Admiral of the Rim. Adair's great
grandmother held the post of Grand Admiral of the Rim during the
Solomani Rim War, and was rewarded with the Archduchy.
Local opinion is that Adair is more of a easy-going, don't
rock the boat company man than either Dulinor or Norris. He is
something of a friendly, reassuring grandfather type, as suit's his
age ( 72 ). Despite being a pureblooded Solomani, Adair often
behaves in a truly Vilani fashion, but without the hard edges or
the open ruthlessness Vilani have towards their enemies. Adiar
*is* a great believer in consensus-style rule, and will take his
time gathering all the information he needs: once he makes a
decision, he will stubbornly stick with it through thick and thin.
While Adair is an Imperial Catholic (Solomani Rite), his actual
faith is in political stability and economic prosperity, and will
do what he need's to do to keep them both. He doesn't actually
care for people who put their religion above what they can see
with their eyes, and the Ismya don't care for people who worship
Mammon. However, Imperial rule and prosperity is not threatened
by these backwater believers, so he ignores them whenever
possible.
Mohamet:
Sector Duke of Diaspora. The third of his family to rule Diaspora,
he is a young ruler, of 27 years, and is in his fourth year of power.
Diaspora is a rather prosperous, long-settled sector of the
Imperium, with 41 high-pop systems. Of these high-pop
worlds, exactly *one*, Kelvin, is in Madoc subsector.
As Madoc has such small amounts of wealth and population
- compared to the rest of the sector - Duke Mohamet can spare
very little of his time and attention to it's problems. Whenever
his advisors and counsellors mention the subsector's name, the
Sector Duke simply roll's his eyes to heaven, and tried to foist the
problem on someone else as quickly as possible, usually the nearest
Knight. When the problem aboslutely *demands* his attention, Duke
Mohamet tends to just grab the best "Madoc hands" he can, lock's
them in a room and verbally drives them until they trash out some kind
of solution, then implement's it immediately so he can move on to more
important things.
Duke Mohamet has only once entered the region, in 1117 during his
"Ennoblement Tour" immediately after he was formally raised
to the sector throne on the death of his granduncle. He only
briefly visited two worlds, Kelvin and NightVision, for only
two days each. The Ogadzi felt snubbed, as the Sector Duke didn't
visit any Ogadzi systems, not even the motherworld. Later
half-hearted reconciling gestures went over poorly with the public.
Of all the subsector governments, Kelvin's Community of Reason
has the most say in the sector court - and even that isn't as much
as it could be, because of the treasonous behavour of their
government about fifty years ago. (Nobles have *long*,
multigenerational memories.) Below the sector court,
however, the over 400 million Ogadzi - nearly all Ismya Christians
- which have settled on many high-pop worlds within Diaspora's
borders have more real cultural and economic sway on Diaspora
culture than the Kelvin government does. [1] As a follower of the
Nyashir [2], the Sector Duke has no love for the older monotheistic
faiths, including Christianity, viewing them as heretical.
Keril:
Duke of Madoc subsector. Thaedus and Keril, as members of
the Pefanis noble house, were chosen to rule Madoc subsector
in the traditional family style. Thus - with the Emperor's
approval - Thaedus ruled the subsector from 001-1114 to
365-1119, Keril rules from 001-1120 to 365-1125, Thaedus
from 001-1126 to 365-1131, etc, until one of the ruling duality
dies. Then, according to family laws of inheritance, another
ruling duality must be chosen by the family elders. The current
duality has been ruling since 1108. Thaedus is 48, and his
cousin Keril 59. [3]
When Keril is ruling, he tends to always favour the big
guys over the little guy, regardless of the justice of the
situation. He has a reputation for corruption, although
it isn't as bad as it used to be, back in the 1110's. He openly
despises the Ismya Christian denomination, condemning them
for their closemindedness and their restricted sexuality, but is
careful to govern his actions so the Ismya believer's don't
have cause to petition the Sector Duke for redress. He used
to favour the Void Mystics, but they no longer care for his
style of "helping" them, so now he is courting the Kelvin
government as a power base. There is only token megacorporate
involvement in Madoc subsector, and most local businesses
dislike dealing with the subsector government while
Keril is on the ducal throne. He is always implictly pressing for
"gifts" and "favours" like some stereotypical Middle Eastern
potentate: the smaller you are, the harder the Duke presses.
Things are especialy bad for traders and merchants at Kaesong,
the capital of the subsector: it's like you can't get *anything*
from the Duke without some kind of bribe. [5]
When Thaedus is ruling, justice actually is done in the majority
of cases. Thaedus is careful to avoid even the apperance of
a bribe, and is quite willing to have "third-party" verification
on any deal. In an Imperium largely uncaring about Ismya Christians,
Thaedus is careful to show himself as a "fair dealer", always
willing to judge an issue on it's merits rather than on the religion
or race of the petitioner. Scion Thaedus is also careful to
avoid any sign of bias between the Ismya Christian, Kelvin
Materialist and Void Mystic communities, enforcing Imperial
Law equally on all communities. For this, he is highly respected
throughout the subsector, and has not only power but
genuine respect from his subjects.
The Pefanis family faith isn't Ismya Christianity, Rational
Materialism or Void Mysticism, but in their shared genes.
Family rituals regarding marriages, funerals, etc. are a mishmash
of various religions and traditions, but when it comes to love,
law, money, and death, Blood Comes First: everyone else can
wait in line.
Duke Keril is solely interested in obtaining more raw wealth
and power for his family, and is quite aggessive about it.
To the extent he can get away with it, he will sell justice to the
highest bidder, and rig the system to help out corporations who can
provide him and his family with favours. There are restraints on
is behavour: he wants to "keep up apperances" with other
Dukes and Duchesses and avoid making his family look bad.
Duke Keril likes to see his subsector prosper, and unrest kept
to a minimum, so he can provide bright and happy reports to the
Sector Duke, Archduke and Emperor. So long as the nobles
who are above him are happy, he could not care less about the
people beneath him, unless they are family. Duke Keril has learned
quite a few tricks and schemes in his 59 years, and doesn't believe
in forgiving his enemies.
Scion Thaedus, like his cousin, believes only in Family. However,
Thaedus is rather more far-sighted, and understands the importance
of a spotless reputation. While dark rumours of corruption
and bribery follow Duke Keril relentlessly, Scion Thaedus is
careful to *always* appear the very essence of the reasonable
and wise judge. [4] More importantly, with a carefully-built
reputation for justice and fairness, the reputation of your family
increases, the amount of authority your family is given rises,
corporations prefer to base their operations in your area, and the
esteem of your family climbs in the eyes of the general public
*and* your Noble peer's. When Thaedus "crosses the line",
it rarely has anything to do with mere *money*: Thaedus has his
eyes on bigger prizes. [6]
[1] And there are another 100 million on various
worlds of the Solomani Cofederation's Alpha Crucis sector,
but the Ogadzi have much less influence there due to their mixed
Solomani-Vilani descent. (About 1/2 Anglo-African
Solomani, 1/4 Korean Solomani, 1/4 Vilani)
[2] The Nyashir religon is one of the "New monotheistic faiths"
that was born in Solomani regions during the Long Night:
it is only distantly related to Islam.
[3] Legally, there can be only one Duke ruling one fief at any one time.
The duality member that isn't ruling is given the "general grab-bag"
title of Scion, until his time to rule returns again. After one of the
ruling duality dies, the other has no legal noble title or powers,
unless he is again chosen by both the family elders and the Emperor
to join a ruling duality.
[4] In many Noble families, the family elders would have already
retired Duke Keril, in one way or another. However, House
Pefanis is very reluctant to attack each other, and are willing to
grant family much more leeway than other Noble families would.
[5] Note that this endless grasping *doesn't* affect traders
"just passing through", or business trading directly with other
governments, corporations or individuals, but only with
people who have to deal directly with the subsector
government. Still, if you need to escalate a legal case to the
Duke to judge, or plan to request the use of Imperial
military force to cut down on an interstellar racket ripping
off free traders, or need to have some Imperial trade codes
revised, you'll *have* to deal with Duke Keril - better have
something to pay for his valuable time.
[6] And what are these prizes? Mainly an expansion of personal
and family power, from informal ownership of a Sector-wide
corporation, to getting a better subsector to rule than the
religious boondocks of Madoc, to being selected to head
an Imperial ministry. But it has to be in the right coin: being
given a starship doesn't cut it, nor does being bribed by some
corporate agent, and Thaedus values his name and his honour
too much to even consider denying justice to the weak and
the poor (or even free traders). But if, say, access to Delago's
corporate plans for Diaspora Sector was provided....
Alvin Plummer
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1820
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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:07:09 -0800 To: Kagehira@aol.com From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest) (by way of Keith Johnson ) Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1821 Traveller-digest Thursday, January 27 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1821 (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises. All rights reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: THUDDD News Re: THUDDD News Re: THUDDD News (and a working URL) SEC: UNCLASSIFIED I know nothing - NOTHING Re: Psionics Re: Big Computers RE: Every thing In Threes Re: Query for Mr Plummer Murder on Arcturus Station >Re: Alien barbeque ad Re: Calendars Re:Different computer types (was Big Computers) Question on starship fuel Re: OT : Linux/Wine Sword Worlder names (Was: Norse religion) LONG! Re: Question on starship fuel Re: Madoc subsector: Senior nobility and viewpoints on the Imperium Re: Text of CT Adventures on the 'Net Vilani Biladin font Re: Calendars Re: Question on starship fuel Re: Sword Worlder names (Was: Norse religion) LONG! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:25:51 -0600 From: Black ICE Subject: Re: THUDDD News "Jason T. Barnabas" wrote: > > Oops! My apologies for having left off the thuddd/ directory > indicator. The space belongs to a client/friend of mine who > is allowing me to use some of his virtual space. These links > should work properly. Sorry for any inconvenience. > > Old News: > THUDDD 9 & 10 results have been posted. Follow the > links from the homepage. I had a problem with this, until I entered the URL as follows: http://www.releasingthefire.com/thuddd/index.html (Note that I added "index.html" to the URL, since the directory wouldn't let me access THUDDD directly.) BTW, what did you do with the comments that people could submit with their ratings? I, for one, would like to know waht people said about my design. <> - -- AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r) Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:54:52 -0500 From: Mark Urbin Subject: Re: THUDDD News "Jason T. Barnabas" puts into the ether: >Oops! My apologies for having left off the thuddd/ directory >indicator. The space belongs to a client/friend of mine who >is allowing me to use some of his virtual space. These links >should work properly. Sorry for any inconvenience. >Old News: >THUDDD 9 & 10 results have been posted. Follow the >links from the homepage. This still doesn't work. The URL http://thuddd.homepage.com/ still works fine though. What's the matter with keeping the contest there? - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em. Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:10:52 -0600 From: Black ICE Subject: Re: THUDDD News (and a working URL) Mark Urbin wrote: > <> > > This still doesn't work. Try: http://www.releasingthefire.com/thuddd/index.html > The URL http://thuddd.homepage.com/ still works fine though. > What's the matter with keeping the contest there? I would imagine that the hassles of Homepage.com seeming to require multiple reloads of the pages with forms (i.e., the pages containing ships being voted on) had something to do with Jason wanting to find another host for THUDDD. That's just my guess, though. - -- AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r) Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:24:48 +1100 From: "Hughes, Michael" Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED I know nothing - NOTHING Sword World Grav Tank.... I'm not worried. I have GURPS Commando BD.... Just a side note - bought Starmercs, loved it. And I don't even play GURPS. Michael However, this makes the Trepida from 101 Vehicles a tin-can. Strewth, even the lumbering old TL 11 Gram Grav Tank has an (overall!) AC 55! (I know, I've been researching it for a game - oops, Michael Hughes, you didn't hear that! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:11:07 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Subject: Re: Psionics In mail you write: > Luther Martin wrote: >>What about this defense against teleporting Zhodani commandoes? You >>randomly cycle the artificial gravity on your ship over a range of about >>plus or minus 1% (or whatever range it takes to get the desired effect) >>around the comfortable 1 g. >> >>Are there any obvious problems with this strategy? > > Interesting. I wonder how much change in altitude is required to get > a 1% change in gravity? > > Artificial gravity breaks conservation of energy in a couple of ways, > so the artificial type might not change potential energy - if that > were the case, the tactic wouldn't work, otherwise it might be just > the trick. Artificial gravity doesn't *necessarily* break anything. Artificial gravity, THE WAY MOST FOLKS TREAT IT, does. One of the things I neglected yto mention in my other responses is that the potential energy change involved in differing strengths of gravity depends on a lot more than merely the "strength" of the field. Acceleration due to gravity depends on mass *and* distance. For a spherical, inverse-square field that results in various things, such as the change in potential energy with altitude. But it's also possible (but not *practical*[1]) to generate a gravity field that *doesn't* decrease with distance from the source and thus has *no* change in potential energy with altitude. Likewise, if we use the standard "dodge" for grav plates, that they come in *pairs* and the field is *between* them, then we've solved most of the problems. But this *does* add one problem. Crossing from one gravity strength to another should have an energy cost. I'm just not sure how to figure it. [1] it requires a *very* dense, thin plate that is very much wider than the altitude you are measuring the field at. - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:06:46 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Subject: Re: Big Computers In mail you write: > IMTU I assume (as is really the case) that smaller components are more > vulnerable to the energy / particles scooting about there in space. So are *people*. > So, in a starship, you can't use quantum devices easily and anything > with components smaller than 0.8 microns (the size of the transistors > on an Intel 486 chip) needs shielding. Not if the people don't. If you can wander around the ship in streetclothes, then even a pentium should be usable. If you have to retreat to a "storm cellar" in the center of the ship during large solar flares, then you can't even use a 486. - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:17:52 +1300 From: "Frank G. Pitt" Subject: RE: Every thing In Threes > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Glenn > St-Germain > Sent: Tuesday, 25 January 2000 16:40 > To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com > Subject: Re: Every thing In Threes > > > >Well, I leave the effects of a neutronium sphere slamming into Mars and > >transferring most of its orbital momentum to the crust to your > imagination. > > (And you thought beanstalk accidents were unpleasant.) > > You want a beanstalk accident? Read Kim Stanley Robinson's award-winning > novel Red Mars for a great example of one... though it really wasn't an > accident as such, as the people who caused it to happen *wanted* it to > happen. > > ObTrav: how do beanstalks fit in with Traveller tech? Are they common? > Rare but not unknown? Completely theoretical? This past weekend my > Traveller game wound up at Capital (just in time to watch Dulinor get > blowed up real good -- it's GURPS Traveller), and the players figured > that if any planet in the Imperium had one, it'd be Capital, so I said > "why not?" and gave it one... But are there any canon references to one? > And if not, how likely are they? They are canon. Solomani used a few before they got grav tech and T-Plates, Vilani probably did in pre-history Thing is, they're too big a target, and too slow once you get a stellar culture. Frankie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:20:02 +1300 From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer From: "Michael Peters" Date sent: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:46:35 -0500 > Well all I can say is that at least Mr. Plummer has the curtousy to put > subject lines on his posts so that the (apparently VERY) few that don't want > to read them don't have to open them to see what they are. And he doesn't > use an obnoxiuosly long sig. Well I'm one of the ones who doesn't want to read them (other than a quick scan of the first few); but I have no objection to them being here (I've just got more than enough background myself at the moment). Actually more than that, I think this sort of material is one of the most important things that the TML is for. And yes this stuff does belong on a website too. And if Alvin doesn't have one I'll offer to host on mine. However, I've got this idea when people put good material on their own sites, it prods them to add more. So Alvin, please get a website and get this excellant stuff on to the web and get some more. Andrew etc Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/ Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/ "What do you expect from a species who's females are always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:42:51 +0000 From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk Subject: Murder on Arcturus Station Robert Eaglestone has asked me to convey news that his excellent site: http://members.home.net/eaglestone/Resources/index.html now includes _Murder on Arcturus Station_. It's in Word format and looks great but is currently missing the image of the station plan itself. tc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:30:00 EST From: "Roger Barr" Subject: >Re: Alien barbeque ad Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:01:02 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Goffin Subject: Re: Alien barbeque ad >From: Glenn St-Germain >... which brings to mind the idea of two K'Kree actors >(captives) in a similar ad for some brand of barbeque or steak >sauce... Though I doubt they'd be able to induce two K'Kree to >extol the virtues of such a product... You don't need actual actors for that; just use CGI. - - --Glenn Here is the biggest trigger for a Jihad I have ever seen. I personally can't imagine what the K'Kree would do if they found out that meat eaters were using computer generated replicas of them to promote more of the same intolerable activity. Wouldn't that be like using a CGI image of the Islamic Prophet Mohammad (sp?) to promote Christianity? (No offense intended to any of the Islamic faith on the list.) Roger Barr TravelerGM@aol.com p.s. The debate on the long posts by Mr Plummer is a perfect example of why democracy doesn't work... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:32:01 EST From: "Roger Barr" Subject: Re: Calendars I play outside the 3I, so calenders aren't always so uniform. Local systems are going to have their own. If you want to stay close to what you are familar with, but give it some flavor, why don't you go to a 364 day year, with 13 months, each with 4 weeks, each with 7 days. Give each of the months a name based on *something*...say an astrological sign, a constellation, a block of elements, whatever. Then give the days a different set of names from those we're use to. Eris Why does it have to be seven days? Roger Barr TravelerGM@aol.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:46:19 EST From: "Roger Barr" Subject: Re:Different computer types (was Big Computers) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:34:02 -0500 From: "Jory Earl" Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine What if a party of PCs crashed on a planet far off the beaten path and their computer software was all fired so they couldn't lift ship and were stranded? Then say they found an alien derelict with Nav software that might help them IF they could figure out how to run it on their own computer? Sounds like a viable adventure idea if you have a good computer tech in the group... Roger Barr TravelerGM@aol.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:48:34 EST From: "Roger Barr" Subject: Question on starship fuel I have a question: When I originally started playing traveller with the 3 LLBs, I had the idea that fuel storage on starships was a large area that held plain purified water. The hydrogen was pulled for fuel, while the oxygen was pulled to use in life support. I have seen references in the TML about l-hyd explosions upon a fuel storage breach. Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd? Roger Barr TravelerGM@aol.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:13:54 -0700 (MST) From: Bruce Johnson Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine On Wed, 26 Jan 2000, Jory Earl wrote: > What if a party of PCs crashed on a planet far off the beaten path and their > computer software was all fired so they couldn't lift ship and were > stranded? Then say they found an alien derelict with Nav software that > might help them IF they could figure out how to run it on their own > computer? Uhhh, i believe this is where the bit about "and a miracle occurs here" in the middle ;-) Personally, I'd go back to my fired software and beg it to come back: offer it more salary, fewer hours, a virtual Ferrari or something ;-) Unless that ancient artifact _helps_ the PC's a LOT, they'll have better luck reprogramming the nav systems from first principles. Take about as long, too...hope they have a supply of anagathics... Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:57:45 +0100 From: Jens Rydholm Subject: Sword Worlder names (Was: Norse religion) LONG! David Jaques-Watson wrote: > Hence "Bjornoya", Bear Island, the island where Tavonni's main > starport is located. After all, the 'port is owned by an ex-Sword > Worlder... I would guess that this person is named Björn :-) > (the original island is in the Bering Sea) ...and that name probably refers to polar bears. > Ooh! ooh! More Sword Worlder - sorry, Scandinavian - names, please > please!! There is a Chinese saying... Be careful with what you wish for. You might get it. Sword Worlders seem to use a mix of Scandinavian and German names in all the sources I've read. Anyway, the names are similar, and often the same, but with some spelling differences (the Scandinavian/Swedish name Henrik is Heinrich in German... and Henric in English). Below is a short list of names which give an ancient Scandinavian (Viking) feel. I have not listed any German names, since those are not my specialty (although I do speak German to some degree). The meanings of the names are in ()s: Male person names ================= Ragnar (?) Björn (bear) Ulf (a really large wolf, dire wolf) Sten (stone) Sven (?) Tor (god of thunder) Torbjörn (combination of Tor and Björn) Torulf (combination of Tor and Ulf) Olof (?) Leif (?) Erik (?) Jörgen (?) Kaj (not sure if this one is old enough, means quay or wharf) Oskar (thunder, "det ċskar" -> "there is thunder") Lars (?) Bo (live, as in inhabit an area or a building) Fredrik (much peace, "peace-rich") Gunnar (?) Harald (?) Ingmar, Ingemar (?) Pär, Per (?) Sture (?) Urban (?) Torkel (?) Female person names =================== Hulda (a warrior in Norse mythology is named Brynhilde) Ċsa (referrence to the "Asar," the gods of Norse mythology) Frida (peace, peaceful) Ida (not sure, but it could be a shortening of Frida) Linda (a tool used in the creation of thread and cloth) Emma (?) Lisa (?) Anna (?) Anneli (?) Elin (?) Gunhild (?) Stina (?) Ulla (not sure, has something to do with wool) Britta, Britt (?) Berit (?) Last names ========== It was a common practice to give children last names composed of the name of the father, with an added "sson" (son of) or "sdotter" (daughter of) to them. This is not the case in modern days (we just inherit the names of our parents, usually the father), but names such as Svensson, Andersson, and Eriksson are still very common. Since we normally inherit our fathers' last names, only the male forms have remained. Other last names could include personality or physical descriptions. I am not sure this practice is old enough, but it gives the right feel to the names. These names are very uncommon these days, and sound a bit funny to us (unlike common person names like Sten or Björn). A few examples are included below: Glad (happy) Frisk (healthy) Stark (strong) Another kind of names describe areas or terrain features, presumably from the place where the person in question lived. Some examples: Björkvik (birch-bay) Widmark (wide ground, large area of land) Forsström (rapid stream) Nyström (new stream) Sjögren (lake branch) Lindgren (lime-tree branch) Lindkvist (lime-tree "small branch") Lövgren (leaf branch) Ekhall (oak hall) Phew! That should be names enough for most of the Sword Worlders in your campaigns :-) > (Apart from Heidi and Beowulf von Heyerdahl, best I could come up > with was a ship's pilot known as "Eyemfrom De Norf") Heidi is a German female name. Beowulf von Heyerdahl is a mix between German and Scandinavian (actually Norwegian) names (both for long-distance seafarers). /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:16:16 -0800 (PST) From: Anthony Jackson Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel Roger Barr writes: > Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd? L-Hyd, unless you have a partial tank of unprocessed fuel. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:07:58 -0600 From: "Robert Eaglestone" Subject: Re: Madoc subsector: Senior nobility and viewpoints on the Imperium Alvin, If you would allow it, I think Downport.com would gladly host this material. And I would appreciate it, since I started reading it halfway through :) Thanks, Rob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:16:28 -0600 From: "Robert Eaglestone" Subject: Re: Text of CT Adventures on the 'Net I was advised by Mr. Hudson that I really ought to tell Mr. Miller about my site and make sure I'm not in violation of copyright. In my mind, the only allowance Mr. Miller might give is that the material is out of print for now. However, Mr. Hudson's e-mail to me aroused my suspicions. The bottom line is that I am planning on taking that page off-line in the next day or two, and from there I'll wait and see what Mr. Miller thinks about the whole shebang. If he concludes that having this stuff on the internet does not present a problem for FarFuture, then I'll put it back up. Otherwise it will stay down. Until then, if anyone has this stuff in PDF I'd love it; I'll also go for Word-format, and even corrected text format. I have wanted a database I can search online for awhile now, and until recently the only stuff I found were the library data pages out there. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:55:10 CST6CDT From: igor@truserve.com Subject: Vilani Biladin font Ack ack ack I've misplaced my copy of the Vilani font - can anyone either: a) Email me a copy of it b) Tell me a website that has it Thanks! Andy Akins ________________________________________________________ True Communications Corporation Your Premier ISP. "Hometown Service with Worldwide Connectivity" http://www.truserve.com info@truserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:35:07 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Subject: Re: Calendars In mail you write: > I play outside the 3I, so calenders aren't always so uniform. Local > systems are going to have their own. And if they do, they'll be based on local year lengths, not Terra's. > If you want to stay close to what you are familar with, but give it some > flavor, why don't you go to a 364 day year, with 13 months, each with 4 > weeks, each with 7 days. Give each of the months a name based on > *something*...say an astrological sign, a constellation, a block of > elements, whatever. Then give the days a different set of names from those > we're use to. You're *assuming* a 364 day year. Actual year lengths will vary *widely*. - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:37:12 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel In mail you write: > I have a question: When I originally started playing traveller with the 3 > LLBs, I had the idea that fuel storage on starships was a large area that > held plain purified water. The hydrogen was pulled for fuel, while the > oxygen was pulled to use in life support. > I have seen references in the TML about l-hyd explosions upon a fuel storage > breach. > > Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd? L-Hyd. (aka LH2) The "displacement ton" that is used for measuring ship volumes is based on the volume occupied by a ton of liquid hydrogen. While most versions of the rules ignore the *actual* mass of the fuel, some do account for it. And water is a *lousy* way to store hydrogen. 1 cubic meter of water weighs 1 metric ton. 1/9th of that mass is hydrogen. The other 8/9ths is oxygen. While a cubic meter of LH2 only weighs about 1/14th of a ton, *all* of that mass is hydrogen. - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:42:28 PST From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names (Was: Norse religion) LONG! In mail you write: > Last names > ========== > It was a common practice to give children last names composed of the > name of the father, with an added "sson" (son of) or "sdotter" (daughter > of) to them. This is not the case in modern days (we just inherit the > names of our parents, usually the father), but names such as Svensson, > Andersson, and Eriksson are still very common. Since we normally inherit > our fathers' last names, only the male forms have remained. Actually, last I heard that method is still the way they do it in Iceland! > Other last names could include personality or physical descriptions. I > am not sure this practice is old enough, but it gives the right feel to > the names. Those aren't "last names". They are "bynames". "Leif the Lucky", "Eric the red" and so forth. I've been thru this as I belong to the SCA and my "persona" there is a Norse trader from around 1000 AD. So I did some research. - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort ------------------------------ End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1821 *********************************** To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command: unsubscribe traveller-digest in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-traveller": subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest" in the commands above with "traveller". Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1822
Date: 1/27/00 4:18:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Thursday, January 27 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1822
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Question on starship fuel
re: Question on starship fuel
re: Question on starship fuel
Re: Question on starship fuel
Re: Question on starship fuel
RE: Query for Mr Plummer
RE: OT : Linux/Wine
re: Sword Worlder names
Re:Different computer types (was Big Computers)
Re: Different computer types (was Big Computers)
Re: Query for Mr Plummer
Re: Query for Mr Plummer
Re: THUDDD News (and a working URL)
Starmap for free
What got you into Trav and keeps you coming back ( was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Vilani Biladin font
Re: Sword Worlder names
Re: OT : Linux/Wine
Re Question on Starship Fuel
THUDDD 10 Comments
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:42:33 -0800
From: "Brian Jenkins"
Subject: Traveller Topic Posts
You know I have enjoyed Mr. Plummer's posts also. Along with all of the others that I have read referring to traveller. I do have my own to throw out there though. I find it interesting when I see the way traveller seems to get ahold of people. I have had people quit other games and join mine simply because it was "Traveller". What is it about the game that attracts you and keeps you coming back for more. What is the allure that traveller has for you. Now I am serious about this. I really want to know. So if you can take a minute (or more) and tell me what it is about this 20yo+ Role Playing game that you love so much please do so. I am looking forward to your replies.
Brian Jenkins
bjenkins@westek.com
ICQ#1202483
"It pays to be obvious. Especially if you have a reputation for subtlety."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:49:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
Leonard Erickson writes:
> While most versions of the rules ignore the *actual* mass of the fuel,
> some do account for it. And water is a *lousy* way to store hydrogen.
Actually, if you aren't planning on accelerating fast, its a pretty decent way
to store J-drive fuel. Per unit volume (which is what matters for J-drives),
water, liquid ammonia, and liquid methane all store about 50% more hydrogen
than liquid hydrogen (and are way easier to deal with). You may need to
'crack' it and store it as Lhyd before using it to jump with, though. This
information is mostly useful if you're planning on crossing the Great Rift
or some such.
Not sure what the densest possible way to store hydrogen is, some metal hydride
might store more hydrogen than any of the above.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:56:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Question on starship fuel
>From: "Roger Barr"
>I have a question: When I originally started playing traveller
>with the 3 LLBs, I had the idea that fuel storage on starships
>was a large area that held plain purified water. The hydrogen
> was pulled for fuel, while the oxygen was pulled to use in
>life support.
>I have seen references in the TML about l-hyd explosions upon a
>fuel storage breach. Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd?
Azhanti High Lightning, a very early reference, is quite clear
that it's liquid hydrogen. AHL rules provide that anyone who
enters a full fuel tank is instantly killed by the liquid
hydrogen, whether wearing battle dress or not. I understand
that it's so cold and so insidious that it freezes everything to
a state of brittleness and gets inside any attempts to seal
openings.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:00:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Question on starship fuel
From: "Roger Barr"
>I had the idea that fuel storage on starships was a large
>area that held plain purified water.
Further to my previous post, water can be run through a fuel
purification plant and turned into fuel. The purification
system separates the oxygen and hydrogen for various purposes
(life support or just waste and fuel).
Unrefined fuel, as I understand it, is just water. I guess you
can fill your fuel tanks with water and run the water through
the power plant and j-drive, which will use almost all of the
hydrogen and waste the oxygen. Maybe I should leave this
question to the gear heads.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:32:02 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>
> Further to my previous post, water can be run through a fuel
> purification plant and turned into fuel. The purification
> system separates the oxygen and hydrogen for various purposes
> (life support or just waste and fuel).
>
In MT, you have to do this before you use the fuel. The MT stats for
starships include the amount of hours required to process a fuel tank.
> Unrefined fuel, as I understand it, is just water. I guess you
It can be. If you scoop from a gas giant, it's just hydrogen gas mixed
with other pollutants.
> can fill your fuel tanks with water and run the water through
> the power plant and j-drive, which will use almost all of the
> hydrogen and waste the oxygen. Maybe I should leave this
> question to the gear heads.
No, your power plant and j-drive will choke, as they accept only refined
fuel gracefully. You need the purification plant.
Now, if you don't have the purification plant, you can still run on
unrefined fuel. However, MT makes several tasks hazardous, IIRC, and
increases the chance of a misjump in this case.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:31:32 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
At 08:48 AM 1/27/00 EST, you wrote:
>
>Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd?
>
>Roger Barr
>TravelerGM@aol.com
I think using an L-Hyd cannon on someone is a bit extreme... make
it water.
--Michel
(who couldn't resist... not that he tried hard)
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:41:59 -0000
From: "Mark Preston"
Subject: RE: Query for Mr Plummer
Come on, William, I'm sure it belongs here - many of us have posted
adventure seeds for the rest to use. I get some great ideas here.
Besides, someone else would've complained if it was a pain.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William F. Hostman
>
> Alvin:
> how much more of your sector are you planning on posting?
> Personally, I think it belongs on a website... I'm not
> reading it myself,
> just as I used to skip the RICE papers in total), but am
> curious as to how
> much more I'm gonna have to skip there will be.
>
> Obviously, there seems to be a lot of work, and I've yet to
> see any other
> comment upon it...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:30:36 -0000
From: "Mark Preston"
Subject: RE: OT : Linux/Wine
Strictly speaking, I suppose it is true - I use it myself from time to
time and, like yourself, may switch over entirely. But there *are* a
few things you need to know before you do.
As you probably know, Windows is a pain to install - and all the
magazines describe that as "easy" compared with a Linux install. Some
of the more recent CDs are much better - and that's the reason I may
switch - but they do say its still a bit tricky in parts. Wine (and
its not the only emulator, by the way) loads on top of Linux is pretty
much as awkward a way as the OS does, and configuration can be tricky
(I had no problem, though). Even then, although the PC is a lot more
stable, the DOS / Windows software can still fall over like Windows
does (after all, effectively it IS Windows), but whe it does, you only
need to restart it, or at worst restart Wine. Finally, I have problems
with DirectX when I use it for games as well - I believe its a known
fault that is being worked on.
So, what you say is true, but there are issues. Think before you jump
and remember that although you can run Linux on a slow old machine,
your games need the same standard as you have now. And the emulator
will slow that down a bit for the games, too.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> Jory Earl
> Sent: 26 January 2000 16:03
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: OT : Linux/Wine
>
>
> I just read in ZDNET's "Computer Shopper" that a program
> for Linux called
> "WINE" allows all DOS, Win 3.xx and Win 9x programs to be
> ran on Linux
> without changing their code. A further claim is made that
> when run they
> inherit Linux's benefits such as stability.
>
> What have you all found to be true? If this is truth as
> written, I am going
> to move to Linux.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:09:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Sword Worlder names
>From: Jens Rydholm
>Sword Worlders seem to use a mix of Scandinavian and German
>names in all the sources I've read.
Let's not forget the world Joyeuse, not far from Gram. There
may be some Francophones among the Teutons in the Sword Worlds
(and there are, in my Traveller Universe).
Contact! Sword Worlds and the Sword Worlds entry in Library Data
both note that the official or at least major (I don't have the
books handy) language is Islenska, which is the Icelandic name
for Icelandic. Hence my comment on the following:
>Last names==========
>It was a common practice to give children last names composed
>of the name of the father, with an added "sson" (son of) or
>"sdotter"(daughter of) to them. This is not the case in modern
>days (we just inherit the names of our parents, usually the
>father), but names such as Svensson, Andersson, and Eriksson
>are still very common. Since we normally inherit our fathers'
>last names, only the male forms have remained.
I don't think this is true in Iceland. (I'm going to a party
thrown by an Icelandic friend of my brother in a few weeks;
maybe I'll ask about this after we've drunk some black death.)
It seems to me that Iceland recently had some female politicians
whose names ended in -sdattir. In Fifth Frontier War, there is
a Sword Worlds admiral whose name ends in -sdattir.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:35:39 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re:Different computer types (was Big Computers)
In <20000127134619.10466.qmail@hotmail.com>, on 01/27/00
at 08:46 AM, "Roger Barr" said:
>
>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:34:02 -0500
>From: "Jory Earl"
>Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine
>What if a party of PCs crashed on a planet far off the beaten path and
>their computer software was all fired so they couldn't lift ship and were
>stranded? Then say they found an alien derelict with Nav software that
>might help them IF they could figure out how to run it on their own
>computer?
>
>Sounds like a viable adventure idea if you have a good computer tech in
>the group...
This alien derelict doesn' t have to be anything all that special either,
just from a group that has software different enough to make the PC
computer tech work to figure it out...assisted by the Astrogator who has
to make sense of the results. Why, I can see this as a *very* viable
adventure for a party stranded somewhere or other...
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:54:32 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Different computer types (was Big Computers)
Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> In <20000127134619.10466.qmail@hotmail.com>, on 01/27/00
> at 08:46 AM, "Roger Barr" said:
>
> >
> >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:34:02 -0500
> >From: "Jory Earl"
> >Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine
>
> >What if a party of PCs crashed on a planet far off the beaten path and
> >their computer software was all fired so they couldn't lift ship and were
> >stranded? Then say they found an alien derelict with Nav software that
> >might help them IF they could figure out how to run it on their own
> >computer?
> >
>
> >Sounds like a viable adventure idea if you have a good computer tech in
> >the group...
>
> This alien derelict doesn' t have to be anything all that special either,
> just from a group that has software different enough to make the PC
> computer tech work to figure it out...assisted by the Astrogator who has
> to make sense of the results. Why, I can see this as a *very* viable
> adventure for a party stranded somewhere or other...
AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH
(sound of head banging desk)
Would you all please STOP giving Eris evil GM ideas!!! He thinks of
enough all on his own!
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:07:50 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
I think people are missing the guts of Walt's post...The way I read it, he
really liked the material AND he would like to see it on a web page for
future reference. That I would assume is to keep it available for future use
and not have to be reposted a dozen times for those folks that missed the
first and subsequent postings.
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Preston"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: Query for Mr Plummer
> Come on, William, I'm sure it belongs here - many of us have posted
> adventure seeds for the rest to use. I get some great ideas here.
> Besides, someone else would've complained if it was a pain.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: William F. Hostman
> >
> > Alvin:
> > how much more of your sector are you planning on posting?
> > Personally, I think it belongs on a website... I'm not
> > reading it myself,
> > just as I used to skip the RICE papers in total), but am
> > curious as to how
> > much more I'm gonna have to skip there will be.
> >
> > Obviously, there seems to be a lot of work, and I've yet to
> > see any other
> > comment upon it...
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:26:38 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
In <002d01bf66b7$76a2eae0$03bfc0c0@ne.mediaone.net>, on 01/24/00
at 05:07 PM, "Thom Harris" said:
>I think people are missing the guts of Walt's post...The way I read it,
>he really liked the material AND he would like to see it on a web page
>for future reference. That I would assume is to keep it available for
>future use and not have to be reposted a dozen times for those folks that
>missed the first and subsequent postings.
Like usual we're going to spend more bandwidth discussing this than the
posts took in the frist place.
I think we *all* agree that Alvin's articles should be published on the
web somewhere. At this point only one person has made anything close to a
request that he not post them on the TML. OTOH, if Alvin posted the Madoc
articles multiple times there might be some objections.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:48:17 GMT
From: Postmark Design Bureau
Subject: Re: THUDDD News (and a working URL)
finally found the results.
The PDB prides itself in targetting niche markets with the designs voted
on, so imagine my surprise being named top in so many categories for
the lifeboat.
I didn't know there were so many "save the dolphin" voters.
Then realisation - the votes were for the Chrysalis II.
I believe this to be a design by Richard Hough.
Now an early release of the Chrysalis II did influence my design
quite heavily. I remember thinking:
"Bother! That's just what I was going to do, only better."
So I immediately decided against direct competition.
:-)
I hope the attribution of this design can be corrected
- --
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division
"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:13:43 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Starmap for free
Have a look at this site, and particularly the free Acrobat download there:
http://www.scifi-az.com/astronomy/astrogators_handbook.htm
ObTrav: You'll know when you get there.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:22:30 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart"
Subject: What got you into Trav and keeps you coming back ( was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
>What is it about the game that attracts you and keeps you coming back for
more. What is the allure that >traveller has for you. Now I am serious
about this. I really want to know. So if you can take a minute (or >more)
and tell me what it is about this 20yo+ Role Playing game that you love so
much please do so. I am >looking forward to your replies.
>
For me (been playing Traveller on/off sense 82), the game first got to me in
school. We had a RPG club in high school that was, for the most part, all
D&D/AD&D (which was the RPG I started with). In the back corner of the club
was a group of Traveller players. I did not know what Traveller was, but by
the noise they made, it sure sounded fun (this group was later asked to
leave the club room because they always disturbed all the other playing
groups). From this group, I got hooked on Traveller. I love the wide open
aspect of the game and the hard science of it, not to mention the ease of
play. After MT came out, I really got hooked. Being a GM at the time it
worked real well with my group, who were just returning from working with
the Zhos on one of the coreword expeditions (a fifteen yr. trip that saw
them miss the FFW and the Start of the Rebellion). I stop playing when TNE
came out, as it felt to much like, to me, GDW decided to throw out all the
rich history of the game and go for a D&D in space with a horrible rule set.
T4 brought me back to Traveller(even with all the errata), and RPGs in
general, as it felt more like the game of traveller. I'm glad to here Marc
is republishing all the CT books and working on T5.
Wayne
wewart@home.com
icq22113294
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/
The good are innocent and create justice. The bad are guilty, which is why
they invent mercy.
- - Magrat Garlick, Witches Abroad
(Terry Pratchett)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:31:23 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Brian Jenkins asked the *ultimate question* when he wrote:
> What is the allure that traveller has for you.
The Cold War.
When I first played Traveller back in 1978, I had great fun designing ships,
engaging in firefights with pirates, collecting tree krakens, and the usual
stuff. Then I had to enter the real world.
I then spent most of my adult life fighting the Cold War in one capacity or
another. It was great fun. Getting paid to play dirty tricks on a truly evil
adversary and to out-maneuver the SOBs. Then the real world entered again.
Since most wives and kids don't really care about this stuff, and the jobs
don't actually pay competitive wages, I moved into the commercial sector.
Now I'm in Silicon Valley, living fairly comfortably, but I really miss the
Cold War. An enemy who was worthy of our untiring efforts to destroy him.
And so forth.
The big appeal of the CT M1100 setting for me is the fact that it's the Cold
War in the Traveller setting. Sure, the Zhodani aren't exactly evil, but
they are a worthy adversary. And if you think being able to play the Cold
War game with a budget of billions of Dollars is fun, imagine what it's like
to play the same game with a budget of many trillions of Credits!
In a nutshell, that's it. It's why I don't quite understand the appeal of
MT, TNE, T4, and GT. It's also why I don't really care that much about the
alien races, the Solomani Rim, and other potentially interesting things.
These elements of the Traveller universe certainly appeal to some fans, but
for me, none of these things can compare to the excitement of taking part in
the ultimate Cold War. It's why I have a framed copy of the map to Fifth
Frontier War, but the rest of my gaming stuff is in boxes somewhere.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:51:10 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard"
Subject: Re: Vilani Biladin font
At 11:55 AM 01/27/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>Ack ack ack
>
>I've misplaced my copy of the Vilani font - can anyone either:
>
>a) Email me a copy of it
>b) Tell me a website that has it
>
>Thanks!
>
> Andy Akins
Try this:
http://home.earthlink.net/~bruadh/Traveller/BSSmain.htm
Sincerely,
Brian A. Howard
Beware the sound of a Babel fish,
For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.
http://home.earthlink.net/~bruadh/index.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 01:12:48 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Actually, last I heard that method [naming children "son/daughter
> of ..."] is still the way they do it in Iceland!
Yes, true. All the names and forms I posted are true for Swedish
versions of the names. The other Scandinavic languages have slighty
different spellings, among other things.
> Those [Glad, Frisk, Stark] aren't "last names". They are "bynames".
> "Leif the Lucky", "Eric the red" and so forth.
I am sorry, but you are partially wrong here. The names I mentioned were
(and still are) all used as last names (I more or less know a Glad and a
Frisk, and I've heard of a Stark). They probably originated as
nicknames, though, but they sort of stuck to the persons in question.
However, bynames/nicknames like the ones you mention were a lot more
common.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:15:27 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: OT : Linux/Wine
This is why I posed the question to the list. Experience has taught me that
things are very seldom as they seem, computers doubly so. As for windows
being hard to install..I'd have to disagree. I install it on lots of
machines with any number of custom setups. Quite easy actually.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Preston"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 3:30 PM
Subject: RE: OT : Linux/Wine
> Strictly speaking, I suppose it is true - I use it myself from time to
> time and, like yourself, may switch over entirely. But there *are* a
> few things you need to know before you do.
>
> As you probably know, Windows is a pain to install - and all the
> magazines describe that as "easy" compared with a Linux install. Some
> of the more recent CDs are much better - and that's the reason I may
> switch - but they do say its still a bit tricky in parts. Wine (and
> its not the only emulator, by the way) loads on top of Linux is pretty
> much as awkward a way as the OS does, and configuration can be tricky
> (I had no problem, though). Even then, although the PC is a lot more
> stable, the DOS / Windows software can still fall over like Windows
> does (after all, effectively it IS Windows), but whe it does, you only
> need to restart it, or at worst restart Wine. Finally, I have problems
> with DirectX when I use it for games as well - I believe its a known
> fault that is being worked on.
>
> So, what you say is true, but there are issues. Think before you jump
> and remember that although you can run Linux on a slow old machine,
> your games need the same standard as you have now. And the emulator
> will slow that down a bit for the games, too.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:06:47 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Question on Starship Fuel
>From: "Roger Barr"
>I have a question: When I originally started playing traveller with the 3
>LLBs, I had the idea that fuel storage on starships was a large area that
>held plain purified water. The hydrogen was pulled for fuel, while the
>oxygen was pulled to use in life support.
>I have seen references in the TML about l-hyd explosions upon a fuel storage
>breach.
>
>Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd?
>
L-Hyd. Ref p27, Bk5: High Guard. Not a direct reference to fuel being L-Hyd
in all tankage, but the page talks about skimming, fuel purification, and
drop tanks. It is explicit that drop tanks are full of L-hyd.
Also, AHL specifies that the tankage is L-hyd.
All later rulesets specify L-Hyd explicitly. (MT, TNE, T4, GT)
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:20:22 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: THUDDD 10 Comments
Postmark Design Bureau wrote:
>
> The PDB prides itself in targetting niche markets with the designs voted
> on, so imagine my surprise being named top in so many categories for
> the lifeboat.
My biggest complaint with your design is that, given the size 24 dtons),
you should have considered these three changes:
1. Upsizing the boat to 30 dtons, to take advantage of the large
installed base of 30 dton ship's boats;
2. Including at least one humanocentric control station, to allow
humans to operate the craft;
3. Explicitly designing the dolphinarium to be cargo-capable, so that
the customer could use the boat to haul cargo when there were no
cetacean passengers.
Sadly, comments made by raters were not posted with the results. I
would have liked to have known what people thought of my design (the
LUA-1 Utility Lifeboat).
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1822
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Traveller-digest Thursday, January 27 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1823
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Sword Worlder names
Re: Starmap for free
Creator of Traveller is?
Re Big Computers
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1821
re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1821
Re: Vilani Font
Re: LH2 fuel!
Re: Different computer types (was Big Computers)
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Query for Mr Plummer
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED School attempt
Re: Query for Mr Plummer
re: Sword Worlder names
Re: what keeps you coming back for more traveller
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:39:11 -0800
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:15:57 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
- -----Original Message-----
From: Luther Martin
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 27 January 2000 23:34
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>Brian Jenkins asked the *ultimate question* when he wrote:
>
>> What is the allure that traveller has for you.
>
>The Cold War.
>
>When I first played Traveller back in 1978, I had great fun designing
ships,
>engaging in firefights with pirates, collecting tree krakens, and the usual
>stuff. Then I had to enter the real world.
>
>I then spent most of my adult life fighting the Cold War in one capacity or
>another. It was great fun. Getting paid to play dirty tricks on a truly
evil adversary
^^^^^^^^
That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation isn't it?
Were they more or less evil than Nazi Germany, Napoleonic France, Tsarist
Russia, The Spanish Inquisition, Pharonic Egypt, the Roman Empire, The
Assyrians, The Aztecs, The Mayans, etc, etc, ad nauseum?
Just because your 'enemy' has a different political and economic system or
values life differently, doesn't make them evil by definition...
Of course, painting the enemy as ruthless baby bayoneters does help in
justifying extreme actions against them, and soothes the conscience of those
that participate...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 01:27:16 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names
There is a ObTrav down there, keep reading...
Glenn Goffin wrote:
> ...Islenska, which is the Icelandic name for Icelandic...
And Isländska, pronounced in the same way, is the Swedish word.
One thing you should remember when dealing with the Scandinavian
languages (Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Icelandic) is that they evolved
from common roots, and stayed close together. Many things are very
similiar.
Icelandic grew apart from the rest (actually it's the other way around,
a Viking and a modern Icelander could probably understand each other),
and is hard for the rest of the Scandinavians to understand.
However, Norwegian, Swedish and Danish are very similiar to each other
(although Danish is spoken quite differently). People of all three
nations understand each other, as long as they take some care not to
speak to quickly (especially Danish people ;)
The funny thing is... since the three languages have a very different
rhythm and pronounciation to them, it sounds to foreigners as if we're
all speaking totally different languages to each other... add in another
Scandinavian speaking English to his friends, and you can REALLY confuse
people... ;-)
You have to watch out when speaking to other Scandinavians, though. Some
words have very different meanings... the Swedish word "rolig" (funny)
means calm in Norway. So if a Swedish person tells a taxi driver in Oslo
to drive to a "funny place," he might end up at a graveyard or
something...
ObTrav: How many different versions of Gangealic (spl?) are there? I
think that it would be reasonable for some worlds/cities to have a quite
different version that at first sounds very different, but when you
really listen, you find out that they do speak the same language as you
do. The neighbours of these people are used to it, and have no problems
whatsoever. Travellers just passing by can get into some strange
situations though... think about words with different meanings, as
mentioned above...
"You came to this planet with livestock? Are you out of your ######
mind? We don't want any ######## slavers around here. Back off or I'll
shoot you."
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:24:39 -0800 (PST)
From: healyzh@aracnet.com
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
> Have a look at this site, and particularly the free Acrobat download there:
>
> http://www.scifi-az.com/astronomy/astrogators_handbook.htm
>
> ObTrav: You'll know when you get there.
>
> Dom
*VERY* Cool! Thanks for posting the link! At about 300k it's well worth
the download! I've been wanting something like this. I for one am going to
be tempted to order the expanded version. Still for what I'm needing this
is good enough for a start. Most excellent!
Zane
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 02:30:35 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: Creator of Traveller is?
Hi all again,
please forgive this blasphemous question, but I got no replies the last
time.
From what I gather, Marc Miller is the original creator of the Traveller
RPG, HOWEVER....is this completely true? I seem to recall some reference (or
perhaps dedication?) to person/s in the US armed forces in the very early
(first) editions of the little black books. This is of some interest to me
for a number of reasons, most of which I won't bore you guys with, but I'd
just like to know one way or the other. I am NOT in any way trying to take
anything away from Mr. Miller btw! I enjoy Traveller a lot and I'm grateful
to him for what he's done and most of the others who have made excellent
contributions (well...that Virus think really sucks, but I igore it...my TU
is perennially stuck in 1105 or so :) ).
Any detailed info on this would be most welcome. If this is off-topic please
let me know and I won't bug the list again.
Thanks,
G.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 02:39:44 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: Re Big Computers
>
> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:50:32 GMT
> From: Simon Early
> Subject: Re: Big Computers
>
> I used to think Traveller computers took up too much room until I
> worked on my first big chemical plant (with sophisticated control
> system via a PDP-11). Then I asked about the room next door.
>
> On a state-of-the-art real-world chemical plant the "control system" is
> huge. Each operator workstation is just a big screen and a keybord
> (plus chair + desk), but the room next door is a vast cavern full of
> silent rows of marshalling racks, UPS systems and the like ... it looks
> like something from a 60's Sci Fi movie.
>
> Even the next generation systems (where each instrument transmitter
> acts like an IP node on a network, transmitting data via a single
> network cable) end up in practice with hardly any saving in space
> (despite the grand claims of the sales bods). I should know, I design
> these beasties for a living.
>
> Add onto this the typical "server room" (the size of a stateroom) with
> RAID arrays, redundant servers, spare parts, extra HVAC and so on and
> the Traveller ship-board computer is looking a bit small.
>
> Simon
Finally! I was wondering how long this would take to figure out!
I kind of wanted to scream in the man's face when a good friend of mine said
that the recently-re-released Star Wars movies were 'dated'. He'd obviously
read this in some magazine...but the thing which freaked me was that his
reason for saying this was that..."There were too many blinking lights on
the consoles of the Death Star main weapon control room". I nearly had
apoplexy. Having been inside that museum version of the Titan launch silo in
Arizona, (and I got to demonstrate because the tour guide thought I looked
appropriately militaristic btw) there were more than a few bliker-litzen,
and the place was pretty huge in terms of computer equipment if you consider
that all it had to do was switch on a rocket. (About a ton of stuff without
including the chairs etc.) I got to wipe out 500 million virtual Chinese or
so since I was the designated operator and we went nuclear. Now, I'd say
that wiping out a whole planet requires a few more lights than that Titan
silo had, and there plenty there let me tell you. So I'm with ya all the way
Simon, Traveller computers are small, high tech marvels! :)
G.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:36:47 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Matt Bond wrote:
> Were they more or less evil than Nazi Germany, Napoleonic France, Tsarist
> Russia, The Spanish Inquisition, Pharonic Egypt, the Roman Empire, The
> Assyrians, The Aztecs, The Mayans, etc, etc, ad nauseum?
But these guys weren't *my* adversary. If you can't hate your adversary,
then where is the fun?
Perhaps "evil" is the wrong term for the Godless Commies, but I can't think
of a better short, concise description of them (yes, I know it was really
only a few guys at the top). History will certainly not look favorably upon
them. I'm not saying that my side was perfect, but in my view, we were a
good bit better.
Hey, here's an idea. A potential use for Cuba. A living history theme park.
"Come see real live socialists as they drive their bicycles to work." We
could take groups of school-aged kids there on field trips. We could do the
same for North Korea, but you would have to bring your own food.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 03:01:08 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1821
> Here is the biggest trigger for a Jihad I have ever seen.
> I personally can't imagine what the K'Kree would do if they
> found out that meat eaters were using computer generated
> replicas of them to promote more of the same intolerable activity.
>
> Wouldn't that be like using a CGI image of the Islamic Prophet
> Mohammad (sp?) to promote Christianity?
> (No offense intended to any of the Islamic faith on the list.)
>
> Roger Barr
> TravelerGM@aol.com
>
> p.s. The debate on the long posts by Mr Plummer is a perfect
> example of why democracy doesn't work...
VERY interesting way to start a war with them no? Hmmmm...I think
Imperialist expansionist xenophobia in my TU might just THANK you kind sir
for having advanced a plot device I quite like!
PS: And a perfect example of why a philosopher king would have come in
handy. Although I think several good suggestions have already been made.
(It's the swift and brutal enforcement of them I miss :) ) I myself can't
filter the stuff because I don't have that damn Inbox assistant option,
however, those who do have it should use it.
And since space on the web has been volounteered by at least one person I
think Mr Plummer should make use of it. I myself find his posts kind of
distasteful, I'm never gonna use the backgrounds cause I find them too
churchy for my TU, but I realise this is just MY opinion and I also
understand that I joined this list to get ideas, some of which may also be
sparked by Mr. Plummer's posts, so I accept the fact that i may have to wade
hip-deep in stuff I don't care about. Such is the work undertaken by
prospectors...so ultimately whatever happens it's not really gonna affect me
one way or the other (the benefit of Zen philosophy :) ).
G.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:59:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Traveller Topic Posts
>From: "Brian Jenkins"
>What is it about the game that attracts you and keeps you
>coming back for more. What is the allure that traveller has
>for you. Now I am serious about this. I really want to know.
That's a good question, and I'm glad you asked it.
I don't have a really good answer, however. I like the vision,
which is my vision on top of Marc's and Loren's original idea.
I like the way I can create stories, background, adventures, or
whatever whenever I want to, like while waiting for a plane. I
like the room for growth and expansion of the background, both
inward and outward. I like the game systems, and I like their
internal integration.
One important thing to which I might not normally give as much
importance as it is due is the fact that I got involved in
Traveller in my early 20s -- and we all know about how the music
that we were listening to in our early 20s is the best music
ever made. So maybe that's true of rpg's, as well -- but then I
also first played Aftermath, Bushido, Runequest, and of course
D&D and AD&D at that time, but have spent almost no time on any
of them since.
I dunno. I just like it.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 03:08:45 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1821
- ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:16:16 -0800 (PST)
> From: Anthony Jackson
> Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
>
> Roger Barr writes:
>
> > Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd?
>
> L-Hyd, unless you have a partial tank of unprocessed fuel.
Huh? I always thought it was H20 (but I only have the old little black
books)
Besides, military ships (such a surplus scouts) have fuel scoops and
function ok on unpurified fuel, which i always thought it meant they are ok
at using unpurified water (ie from seas, gas giants etc). But I only play CT
(heavily modified by house rules for things like combat) so not sure what
you guys are referring to.
G.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 03:11:13 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: Re: Vilani Font
>
> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:55:10 CST6CDT
> From: igor@truserve.com
> Subject: Vilani Biladin font
>
> Ack ack ack
>
> I've misplaced my copy of the Vilani font - can anyone either:
>
> a) Email me a copy of it
> b) Tell me a website that has it
>
> Thanks!
>
> Andy Akins
I never had it, so I'd like a copy/info on it too thanks!
G.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 03:19:32 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: Re: LH2 fuel!
> > Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd?
>
> L-Hyd. (aka LH2)
>
> The "displacement ton" that is used for measuring ship volumes is based
> on the volume occupied by a ton of liquid hydrogen.
>
> While most versions of the rules ignore the *actual* mass of the fuel,
> some do account for it. And water is a *lousy* way to store hydrogen.
>
> 1 cubic meter of water weighs 1 metric ton. 1/9th of that mass is
> hydrogen. The other 8/9ths is oxygen.
>
> While a cubic meter of LH2 only weighs about 1/14th of a ton, *all* of
> that mass is hydrogen.
>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
OUCH! This makes a laser hit of "fuel tanks" a very, very, very, scary
proposition!
Anyone have any house rules for appending armour to classic traveller ? I
think I'll need it a lot more! (not in a high guard fashion thanks, I
consider that system of combat for ships a bit more complicated than what I
want)
Or I could just begin to use my own game (Starspark) which I created long
ago for space combat. It plays fast, is as 'realistic' as most people need I
guess, and the ships blow up into teeny weeny bits of callonium armour (a
special alloy I had to devise as a plot device to explain how the ships take
damage merely by a reduction of HP until they reach zero when they blow up
into dust clouds). Survivability of PCs that get into space combats would
lower drammatically though (PCs in Starspark are merely plot devices...the
things which control the ships, that's all, they die as soon as the ships
do.)
Giuseppe
(worrying about all the PCs in his TU now....)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:26:13 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Different computer types (was Big Computers)
On 27 Jan 00, at 14:54, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH
>
> (sound of head banging desk)
>
> Would you all please STOP giving Eris evil GM ideas!!! He thinks of
> enough all on his own!
You know we only do it to listen to you scream (you're so good at it :)
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:26:13 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
On 27 Jan 00, at 15:31, Luther Martin wrote:
> Brian Jenkins asked the *ultimate question* when he wrote:
>
> > What is the allure that traveller has for you.
>
> The Cold War.
SNIP
> The big appeal of the CT M1100 setting for me is the fact that it's the
> Cold War in the Traveller setting. Sure, the Zhodani aren't exactly evil,
> but they are a worthy adversary. And if you think being able to play the
> Cold War game with a budget of billions of Dollars is fun, imagine what
> it's like to play the same game with a budget of many trillions of
> Credits!
>
> In a nutshell, that's it. It's why I don't quite understand the appeal of
> MT, TNE, T4, and GT. It's also why I don't really care that much about the
> alien races, the Solomani Rim, and other potentially interesting things.
> These elements of the Traveller universe certainly appeal to some fans,
> but for me, none of these things can compare to the excitement of taking
> part in the ultimate Cold War. It's why I have a framed copy of the map to
> Fifth Frontier War, but the rest of my gaming stuff is in boxes somewhere.
What's wrong with a cold war vs the Solomani? Is it no fun if they
can't read you mind? I'd have thought the facist Solo's a fine foe.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:20:58 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
>As a general statement, I much prefer long on-topic posts (even those I'm
>not *currently* interested in) to the blizzards of off-topic posts we so
>often get here. Yes, I know series posts like Alvin's take up bandwidth,
>but when they are on topic it's worth it...to me. Of course, everyone's
>MMV.
Exactly. I'd rather delete one 40k post that 15 3k posts. Not that I'm
deleting this stuff: the Madoc writeups are filed in my "read after exams
are marked" folder.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:25:46 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED School attempt
>Here's my crack at a school (however it is Milieu 0 system specific but
>readily adaptable)
>
>School Name: Sylean Federation Vacuum Mining School
Got it.
Now if everyone could submit a school or two we'd have that supplement
finished. :-)
For those that can't do schools, how about NPCs like famous professors,
student radicals, and the like?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:27:54 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
>And yes this stuff does belong on a website too. And if Alvin
>doesn't have one I'll offer to host on mine. However, I've got this
>idea when people put good material on their own sites, it prods
>them to add more. So Alvin, please get a website and get this
>excellant stuff on to the web and get some more.
Failing that, maybe Jeff could add it to Freelance Traveller? (One of my
favourite websites, BTW. No problems under any browser I'd used, looks
good, and a decent variety of material.)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:37:28 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: re: Sword Worlder names
>I don't think this is true in Iceland. (I'm going to a party
>thrown by an Icelandic friend of my brother in a few weeks;
>maybe I'll ask about this after we've drunk some black death.)
>It seems to me that Iceland recently had some female politicians
>whose names ended in -sdattir. In Fifth Frontier War, there is
>a Sword Worlds admiral whose name ends in -sdattir.
I thopught that in Iceland children still went by the parent's name, with
son or dattir appended.
I also remember seeing a documentary which had a mother/daughter team of
politicians (or activists): if the mother's name was Hulda, then the
daughter was Lota Huldasdattir (names invented to illustrate pattern). I
remember this because a friend who watched the show with me complained
about how the reporter kept on reminding us of the relationship, and never
told us the daughter's last name; I pointed out that that _was_ the
daughter's last name, and had been painted on the door of her office.
I interpretted this to mean that at least some of the time a daughter will
be named for the mother. No idea if this is for illegitimate kids only, or
whether all daughters are named for mother and boys for father, or what.
I'd be curious to learn how it's really done.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:37:32 -0800
From: "Fred's E-mail"
Subject: Re: what keeps you coming back for more traveller
what captures me with traveller...is that it has a great storyline..the game
is easy to learn..fun...its perfect for all my ideas i've wanted to use for
other games but never could...and it works with almost every roleplaying
system i play...
the idea of being able to create new galaxies and space vessels...and
characters from around the universe...its exciting
now mind you i haven't even started pl,aying traveller yet..but when i heard
about it i jumped right in and bought the stuff for it...and even now i'm
getting more stuff...its a mind thrilling action packed game....for pretty
much everyones tastes..its not one of those sci-fi games where everything is
alien..its got its monsters..its demons...its god like thingies....its just
an awesome game...in my opinion that is
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:53:50 -0500
From: "Alvin"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
OK, so how on earth did Traveller get such a grip on me?
Good question.
[ Think. Think. Think. ]
It's got to have something to do with a mix of *scale*,
*plausability*, *romance* ,*familiarity* and *flexibility*.
SCALE: The Imperium is Just So Huge, it absolutely
feels awesome! Everything you need for big-time
space opera is here: the giant spaceships, the interstellar
nobility, the mysterious Ancients, the tons of human
cultures, all under one roof! Scale also adds to flexibility:
see below...
PLAUSABILITY: Because Traveller science is
"semi-hard", you don't feel that you can do just anything
you want, but have to be *disciplined*. Yet, there is
always the possibility of finding the Mysterious Powerful
Artifiact that can Save the Day (and Make You Rich, too!)
This *limit* thing is even apparent in the structure
of the Imperium. Everyone knows that the Imperium has
11,000 stars, and many of us can draw the borders of the
Imperium from memory. Even so, only a few areas have
been charted out in canon, and even *that* can be totally
rewritten without destroying the essence of Traveller.
Actually, the *history* of the Imperium is more important
than whether Mora or Regina is the capital of the Domain
of Deneb, say. And what a history! When a place has
a history, it has a very specific identity, a *feel* of reality
and depth that makes it different than, say, the Star Trek
Universe.
[ Holding myself back from flaming Trek - I know I can do it...]
[ Groan... Struggle... Did It! ]
ROMANCE: The place just *feels* right, OK? Real Men
can still make a real difference on a world or a subsector,
without destroying the entire background. You can do
a lot of stuff, and have a genuine chance of pulling it off.
You can have great, dramas where the fate of worlds
revolves around who Princess Stephonie marries, much
dering-do for the Imperium, and be as visionary and
imaginative as you want: the Imperium has all the room
you need to play in.
Moreover, because the Imperium is run by nobles,
you can stick a human face on things that go right,
or goes wrong. Who cares if Faceless Bureaucrat #457
replaces Faceless Bureaucrat #456 in the Department
of Defense? They are just cyphers for the People Who
Really Run Things, and if you somehow force one out of
office, you'll just get another suit saying the same thing.
Now, if Countess Sagirah replaces Count Gergo
in the Imperial Ministry of War, you *now* have something
to work with. What are the attitudes of their families
about the position? What do they have to gain? What did
Count Gergo - or his family - do to lose the position?
What does Countess Sagirah's position have to do with
her brother leaving the Navy - if anything? Did Count Gergo's
loss have anything to do with the fact that his system is at war
with a megacorp? Or was he called away on family matters?
Maybe Countess Sagirah's intelligence caught the eye of the
Emperor - geniuses *do* run in her family, you know.
And why was Count Kanlukidim passed over - are the
Solomani regaining their power in the Imperial Court?
FAMILIARITY: Because the basic tech level of the
Imperium is somewhere around 1950's -1970's SF,
we are quite comfortable with what can be done,
and know how to go about doing things, even though
3800 years have passed. We all understand how
empires work, what an interstellar navy can do,
and the importance of limiting communication to
the speed of travel. Because humans dominate the
Imperium, we know that the people running things
are fundamentally "just folks", capable of the human
range of good and evil. Guns work just as they do
in real life, people are still rich or poor, a planet
can be oppressive or free.
FLEXIBILITY: The Imperium is Just So Huge, you could fit
_anything_ you want in it! If you want to have the
Imperium to be a model of, say, the Abbasid Caliphate
with serious tech and jump drives, you can do it.
How about the typical dystopia of megacorporations
running the universe, with hardwired cyberdecks
beating the System? You can do that. You can push and
jerk the Imperium to fit most model of a Big-Boy Government
you want, without destroying the integrity of the game. [1]
Even if you stick close to the "British Empire in space" model,
there's still a vast amount of flavouring you can add that can
differenciate *your* Imperium from anyone elses.
Nobles have different personalities, ruling families have different
goals, different species have different agendas. You can
make your Imperium a very honourable, inspiring place ruled
by the very best men around, or have an Imperium absolutely
shot through with corruption and barely-contained chaos, with
very little change in the offical universe.
And your characters! They can be mercenaries, or merchants,
or scouts. If you want to get off the beaten track, you
can play researchers, or star gypsies, or fleeing spies. And your
enemy can be adjusted to suit the campaign, from a single, very
tough Marine to *all of Charted Space*. The subsector that hates
your name can be 1000 parsec's away, or right next door.
You can take over an entire planetary government, build
your own business, or be a loyal servant of the Duke.
*********************
[1] Except the Soviet Union,or some other security state.
The Imperium need to have a *loose but powerful* feel
to it. You generally don't hear from them, and they don't
keep track of most things, but when they do get interested,
WATCH OUT! Turning the Imperium into a controlling,
bureaucratic security state ruins the feel of Traveller.
Same thing with turning it into some kind of disaster area,
a perfect utopia, or too high a tech level ( "technomagic" ).
Alvin Plummer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:39:11 -0800
From: "Fred's E-mail"
Subject: Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:39:11 -0800
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF68ED.6C102B00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
just to let everyone know..i got my icq back up and running..so contact =
me if you want to get on my account...i find it alot easier to chat from =
icq..hehe
- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF68ED.6C102B00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
just to let everyone know..i got my icq =
back up and=20
running..so contact me if you want to get on my account...i find it alot =
easier=20
to chat from icq..hehe
- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF68ED.6C102B00--
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1823
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Traveller-digest Friday, January 28 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1824
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: What got you into Trav and keeps you coming back ( was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: Not Really Norse Days
Fair Use: Out-of-print CT Adventures going away
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1823
Re: THUDD
Re: Question on starship fuel
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
OT: fonts
Re: THUDDD News (and a working URL)
Re: Murder on Arcturus Station
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Alien barbeque ad
Re: THUDDD News (and a working URL)
What got you into Trav and keeps you coming back
Re: Query for Mr Plummer
Re: Question on starship fuel
Re: What got you into Trav and keeps you coming back
Re: Question on starship fuel
RE: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Creator of Traveller is?
Creator of Traveller is?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:44:02 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: What got you into Trav and keeps you coming back ( was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
I like science fiction, particularly space opera and similar aspects of
the genre. It's the first SF game I played, I've tried others
(Metamorphis Alpha, Gamma World, Space Opera, Space Ace, etc.,) and its
still the best in its diversity and milieu. And its simple, and doesn't
beat you over the head with hard science. It's basically, fun. If I
had a steady group ( we're down to three)I'd still be playing it or
running a game. Anyone can play and have fun who has a sense of wonder.
darkhstarr
Wayne Ewart wrote:
>
> >What is it about the game that attracts you and keeps you coming back for
> more. What is the allure that >traveller has for you. Now I am serious
> about this. I really want to know. So if you can take a minute (or >more)
> and tell me what it is about this 20yo+ Role Playing game that you love so
> much please do so. I am >looking forward to your replies.
> >
> For me (been playing Traveller on/off sense 82), the game first got to me in
> school. We had a RPG club in high school that was, for the most part, all
> D&D/AD&D (which was the RPG I started with). In the back corner of the club
> was a group of Traveller players. I did not know what Traveller was, but by
> the noise they made, it sure sounded fun (this group was later asked to
> leave the club room because they always disturbed all the other playing
> groups). From this group, I got hooked on Traveller. I love the wide open
> aspect of the game and the hard science of it, not to mention the ease of
> play. After MT came out, I really got hooked. Being a GM at the time it
> worked real well with my group, who were just returning from working with
> the Zhos on one of the coreword expeditions (a fifteen yr. trip that saw
> them miss the FFW and the Start of the Rebellion). I stop playing when TNE
> came out, as it felt to much like, to me, GDW decided to throw out all the
> rich history of the game and go for a D&D in space with a horrible rule set.
> T4 brought me back to Traveller(even with all the errata), and RPGs in
> general, as it felt more like the game of traveller. I'm glad to here Marc
> is republishing all the CT books and working on T5.
>
> Wayne
> wewart@home.com
> icq22113294
> http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/
>
> The good are innocent and create justice. The bad are guilty, which is why
> they invent mercy.
> - Magrat Garlick, Witches Abroad
> (Terry Pratchett)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:41:34 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Not Really Norse Days
From: Luther Martin
> Do you have some sort of reference for this? I checked the Oxford
> English Dictionary last night, which is certainly more than folk
> etymology, and found only the reference to Old Norse origins.
That's rather odd. When I was interested in the subject and checked the OED
there was a big mess of different, but similar words from a number of Old
Germanic languages. If I get the time, I'll hit the OED at the school
library to see if they've pared it down since (I doubt it though, because
it's not like they publish a brand new version every year or so).
> I am not trying to be a pain in the neck, but am genuinely interested
> in etymology.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:45:32 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Fair Use: Out-of-print CT Adventures going away
Marc Miller has responded in a timely fashion; supplying
the whole text goes beyond fair use (fair use translates
to about one page). Therefore, I'm removing this page
from my site immediately.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:02:00 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
On 27 Jan 00, at 10:42, Brian Jenkins wrote:
> You know I have enjoyed Mr. Plummer's posts also. Along with all of the
> others that I have read referring to traveller. I do have my own to throw
> out there though. I find it interesting when I see the way traveller
> seems to get ahold of people. I have had people quit other games and join
> mine simply because it was "Traveller". What is it about the game that
> attracts you and keeps you coming back for more. What is the allure that
> traveller has for you. Now I am serious about this. I really want to
> know. So if you can take a minute (or more) and tell me what it is about
> this 20yo+ Role Playing game that you love so much please do so. I am
> looking forward to your replies.
I don't really know. Perhaps it's that it has always seemed so much
more full of potential than the other SF games I own. Certainly it's not
because it is more popular with players, as I've run far less Traveller
than SpaceMaster or Space Opera.
One thing is that Traveller enourages speculation into future tech
more than other games, as they tend to be space opera, and thus
not very concerned with realism, or like 2300AD where the tech is
already quite tightly defined. It's the same for the worlds, I guess -
there's always another interesting world to be explored.
Then there's the TML. What other game has the TML? Other games
may have mailing lists where you can ask for help, or disscuss
vehicle designs, etc, but where else can you warn yourself on a cold
winter's day merely by pointing out how all versions of Traveller before
TNE are just so much waste paper?
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:02:00 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: re: Traveller Topic Posts
On 27 Jan 00, at 16:59, Glenn Goffin wrote:
> One important thing to which I might not normally give as much
> importance as it is due is the fact that I got involved in
> Traveller in my early 20s -- and we all know about how the music
> that we were listening to in our early 20s is the best music
> ever made. So maybe that's true of rpg's, as well -- but then I
> also first played Aftermath, Bushido, Runequest, and of course
> D&D and AD&D at that time, but have spent almost no time on any
> of them since.
It may be, in the case of Aftermath and Bushido anyway, that these
games belong to genres that are no longer popular, or relevant. This
came up in a dissussion with a friend who pointed out that in the
early 80s, when he started playing games like Aftermath seemed far
more realistic than they do now, because the perception that WWIII
was going to blow the world to kingdom come was much more
normal then than now. Certainly the young people (mid - late teens) I
meet today seem a lot more optimistic then my friends and I were at
the same age (in the mid 80s).
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:00:48 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
From: Brian Jenkins
>What is it about the game that attracts you and keeps you coming
>back for more. What is the allure that traveller has for you. Now I am
>serious about this. I really want to know.
When my older brother first brought home the Traveller Book and Adventure 1:
The Kinunir, Trav was one of the only sci-fi games on the market. It was the
only sci-fi game on the market which was flexible enough for the style of
background generating I was interested in.
What really hooked me on Traveller, though, was the CT chargen system. Even
though, nowadays, I have certain problems with the chargen system (from a
GM's point of view), I still have a soft spot in my heart for it. I bought
MegaTraveller when it came out, but wasn't really interested. For the most
part, I felt that the background had become too topheavy and too convoluted.
The OTU setting and I have rarely seen eye to eye.
TNE won me back though, for a number of reasons, but I lost interest because
the chargen system lost the purity which CT's had. T4 won me back, because
it felt like CT again.
Currently, I'm trying to find a way to meld CT and GURPS Traveller into
something which I can really sink my teeth into... and gleefully taking
potshots at canon. :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:10:24 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1823
In a message dated 00-01-27 20:44:56 EST, you write:
<< Giuseppe"
Hi all again, please forgive this blasphemous question, but I got no
replies the last
time. From what I gather, Marc Miller is the original creator of the
Traveller
RPG, HOWEVER....is this completely true? I seem to recall some reference (or
perhaps dedication?) to person/s in the US armed forces in the very early
(first) editions of the little black books. >>
Several of us contributed, but Marc came up with the original game concept
and most of the basic mechanics.
The only dedication I remember in the LBB is to Marc's wife. Marc himself
served in the US Army (in Vietnam among other places).
Perhaps if you could provide the exact passage you are thinking of?
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:35:20 -0800
From: "Bruce Macintosh"
Subject: Re: THUDD
>BTW, what did you do with the comments that people could submit with
>their ratings? I, for one, would like to know waht people said about my
>design.
Me too - I am disappointed that people didn't like the Darwin more; I was
very proud of the cost-effectiveness and versatility of the design.
And I'm curious if anyone worked out the hidden agenda.
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:38:07 -0800
From: "Bruce Macintosh"
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
>I have a question: When I originally started playing traveller with the 3
>LLBs, I had the idea that fuel storage on starships was a large area that
>held plain purified water. The hydrogen was pulled for fuel, while the
>oxygen was pulled to use in life support.
You don't actually need that much oxygen for life support; the water vapour
people exhale can easily be broken down for more.
Canonical fuel is pure hydrogen - cf the use of 1 ton = 14 m3, and of course
formulae in later editions that work out fuel mass as well as volume.
There were many arguments on the TTL about carrying fuel as water, because
it lets you pack many more kg of hydrogen into a m3 even if you throw away
the oxygen, but that's One Of Those Subjects We Don't Talk about these days.
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:45:20 -0500
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
I liked the fact that it came *without* a background. In 1979 I was fifteen
and a member of the Sci-Fi Book Club, reading everything I could get my
hands on. When I found out that I could play the story lines that I was
reading, I was hooked. Foundation, Stainless Steel Rat, Retief, Space
Viking, Paratime Police, Ringworld, Gateway... Any story, any time. Not to
mention the fact that the chargen system was a game in itself. Hundreds of
hours of solo play and planning. Easily scalable. There are so many
things. Could even be the little black box and books. :-)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:17:37 -0900
From: Richard Martin
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Luther Martin wrote:
>
> Hey, here's an idea. A potential use for Cuba. A living history theme park.
> "Come see real live socialists as they drive their bicycles to work." We
Hmm.. sounds like less air pollution and good exercise. Maybe if a few
more people in LA, NY, etc would ride bicyvles they might pollute less
than the reincarnated dinosaurs called "SUVs." that re populating the
freeways.
- --
Richard Martin
I think, therefor I am, therefor I must be... Still here
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:17:43 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: OT: fonts
With the combined talents represented on this list, I'm betting
at least one of you knows how to make a new font file and
where to save it and how to make your computer able to
access it. If so, would you please contact me to explain it
briefly?
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:20:39 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: THUDDD News (and a working URL)
From: Black ICE
> Mark Urbin wrote:
> >
> <>
> >
> > This still doesn't work.
I forgot the ISP set the default page to home.htm. I saved it
as home.html. So, the homepage should work now.
> Try:
>
> http://www.releasingthefire.com/thuddd/index.html
Yep, I also saved a copy of the same file as index.html
because there are some links in the pages that go to
index.html.
> > The URL http://thuddd.homepage.com/ still works fine though.
> > What's the matter with keeping the contest there?
>
> I would imagine that the hassles of Homepage.com seeming to require
> multiple reloads of the pages with forms (i.e., the pages containing
> ships being voted on) had something to do with Jason wanting to find
> another host for THUDDD. That's just my guess, though.
Good guess. The thuddd.homepage.com should be a mirror
site, so if it works for you by all means use it.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:21:14 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Murder on Arcturus Station
From:
> Robert Eaglestone has asked me to convey news that his excellent site:
>
> http://members.home.net/eaglestone/Resources/index.html
>
> now includes _Murder on Arcturus Station_. It's in Word format and looks
> great but is currently missing the image of the station plan itself.
Did you know that you can "browse" Word documents in
MSIE5.x? It's kinda weird.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:31:25 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>What is it about the game that attracts you and keeps you coming
>back for more. What is the allure that traveller has for you. Now I am
>serious about this. I really want to know.
The setting of the 3rd Imperium is an aggregate of everything I liked in
science fiction when I was reading it religiously growing up. It is part
Asimov, part Niven, part Clark et al. The game was rules lite and setting
heavy, at least to my then-young eyes. It was sf, or at least sci fi, and
not fantasy in space like Battletech, Star Wars, or Space Opera.
It was clearly written, (mostly) well thought out, and cleanly executed
(typographically speaking).
Oh, and then there were the TNS reports. They made the 3I live for me, as if
I were actually a citizen on a member world. Because of them, I could
fantisize that someday I would make it into the Field Service of the Scout
service and get off this little mud-ball of a world and see the *real*
universe. ...
Ciao,
Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:39:54 -0500
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Martin"
> > Hey, here's an idea. A potential use for Cuba. A living history theme
park.
> > "Come see real live socialists as they drive their bicycles to work." We
>
> Hmm.. sounds like less air pollution and good exercise. Maybe if a few
> more people in LA, NY, etc would ride bicyvles they might pollute less
> than the reincarnated dinosaurs called "SUVs." that re populating the
> freeways.
Well, spring would be a real bear, what with all of the thawing corpses
stinking the place up and rusted bikes littering the countryside, but
whatever it takes to reduce the overall granola content of New England, its
worth a try!
:-p
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:43:44 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Alien barbeque ad
From: Roger Barr
> p.s. The debate on the long posts by Mr Plummer is a perfect
> example of why democracy doesn't work...
How's that?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:51:53 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: THUDDD News (and a working URL)
From: Postmark Design Bureau
> finally found the results.
>
> The PDB prides itself in targetting niche markets with the designs voted
> on, so imagine my surprise being named top in so many categories for
> the lifeboat.
>
> I didn't know there were so many "save the dolphin" voters.
>
> Then realisation - the votes were for the Chrysalis II.
>
> I believe this to be a design by Richard Hough.
>
> Now an early release of the Chrysalis II did influence my design
> quite heavily. I remember thinking:
>
> "Bother! That's just what I was going to do, only better."
>
> So I immediately decided against direct competition.
>
> :-)
>
> I hope the attribution of this design can be corrected
IIRC, this was also a problem early in THUDDD 10. My
apologies for not completely correcting it then. Come to
think of it, I don't know how it happened. Se la garre (sp?).
It's been fixed.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:50:39 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: What got you into Trav and keeps you coming back
>What is it about the game that attracts you and keeps you coming back for
>more. What is the allure that traveller has for you. Now I am serious
>about this. I really want to know. So if you can take a minute (or more)
>and tell me what it is about this 20yo+ Role Playing game that you love so
>much please do so. I am looking forward to your replies.
The Third Imperium. The rich expanse of the history being revealed little
by little in supplement, adventure and magazine. To me, without the
(Prefereably mature) 3i, it's not Traveller. When I first got into
Traveller, the options were D&D, AD&D, CT, or Star Frontiers, at least
amongst my options for groups to play with. Traveller had the best GM, and
the 3rd Imperium was the setting, in all it's glory and oppression. I
remember running Shadows, Annic Nova, Beltstrike, Twighlight's Peak. All
set in or near the 3rd imperium.
MegaTraveller got me re-hooked after high-school. TNE drove me away. T4
merely repulsed me (Worse editing than MT... and worse mechanics than TNE).
GT makes me ill. To me, the future of traveller is in the past, not in T5
as a T4 derivative. The grand sweep of the 3i setting, and the ready
availability of vehicles and equipment stats, plus a decent design system
are why I keep doing MT w/DGP additions. If T5 doesn't fill those needs for
me, I'll give up on new traveller editions. I'm very glad to see the
reprints (Now if only I had planned for buying them...) as several people I
know will buy the reprints of CT (and would for MT, if the errata were
applied, even w/o the DGP stuff) but won't consider TNE, GT, T4, nor T5.
Then again, that generally would be most of my traveller players.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:00:52 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
From: Robert Prior
> Failing that, maybe Jeff could add it to Freelance Traveller? (One of my
> favourite websites, BTW. No problems under any browser I'd used, looks
> good, and a decent variety of material.)
Can you post the Freelance Traveller URL?
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:04:43 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
From: Roger Barr
> I have seen references in the TML about l-hyd explosions upon a fuel
storage
> breach.
>
> Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd?
LHyd. And in spite of what some have said, there is almost
no chance of it exploding. Pure hydrogen will not burn
without an oxidant.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:48:26 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford
Subject: Re: What got you into Trav and keeps you coming back
At 07:50 PM 01/27/2000 -0900, you wrote:
> >What is it about the game that attracts you and keeps you coming back for
> >more. What is the allure that traveller has for you. Now I am serious
> >about this. I really want to know. So if you can take a minute (or more)
> >and tell me what it is about this 20yo+ Role Playing game that you love so
> >much please do so. I am looking forward to your replies.
Having just come off a Star Wars high when the LBBs came out, I'd say it
was the wonder of it all. No other SF RPG has (for me, anyway) made the
universe such a big place. By detailing, over the years, so much, and
alluding to so much more, it inspired a sense of size - sheer magnitude -
in me that questionable (to some) plot-lines like TNE and bad editing like
T4 never dimmed. It was like when, in 7th grade, I read the Foundation
Trilogy (the only three out at that time) - everything was so $%%##@ big!
Something to consider: What other SF game, fiction series, or anything
else, has (likely) spawned such a large group of adherents who have thought
so much about "what's out there" and about the, well, mechanics of how
interstellar society might work? That's due to that "sense of
wonder"... Yes, Star Trek has its Trekkies and Star Wars has its fans
(including me), but their focii aren't really on the same thing as Traveller...
Bill Rutherford
worj@home.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:10:41 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
>There were many arguments on the TTL about carrying fuel as water, because
>it lets you pack many more kg of hydrogen into a m3 even if you throw away
>the oxygen, but that's One Of Those Subjects We Don't Talk about these
days.
>
>Bruce
Excellent!
Now all we need are some house rules for ships that wish to convert to
carrying water as fuel! What cracking machinery, new fule lines, intake gear
is needed and can they stiil scoop at Gas Giants etc.
(Please remember the Volume for us MT folks!)
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:42:49 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Traveller Topic Posts
> On Behalf Of Brian Jenkins
>
> What is it about the game that attracts you and
> keeps you coming back for more. What is the allure that
> traveller has for you. Now I am serious about this. I really
> want to know. So if you can take a minute (or more) and tell me
> what it is about this 20yo+ Role Playing game that you love so
> much please do so. I am looking forward to your replies.
The background.
It at least attempts to be "realistic"
It has nobles, huge ships, the Navy, wars, merchants, scouts, Marines,
grav-tanks, meson guns....
The wild west feel.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:24:49 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Creator of Traveller is?
>From: "Giuseppe"
>Subject: Creator of Traveller is?
...
>contributions (well...that Virus think really sucks, but I igore it...my TU
>is perennially stuck in 1105 or so :) ).
Opinions on how/how much/why Virus sucks/rules are generally in bad form :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:15:16 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin"
Subject: Creator of Traveller is?
> From: "Giuseppe"
> Hi all again,
> please forgive this blasphemous question, but I got no replies the last
> time.
We all thought someone else would reply, I suppose. Now you'll probably
get a hundred replies.
Anyway, Marc Miller and Loren Wiseman created Traveller and first
published it in 1977. Marc Miller owns the copyright. He has a web
site, but I can't recall the URL and it's not bookmarked on this
computer. If you go to the Traveller Web Ring you will find it (and
tons more information).
> >From what I gather, Marc Miller is the original creator of the Traveller
> RPG, HOWEVER....is this completely true? I seem to recall some reference
> (or perhaps dedication?) to person/s in the US armed forces in the very early
> (first) editions of the little black books.
One or both of them were in the U.S. military. There is a comment in an
early JTAS editorial about blade skill that noted that the author (Marc
or Loren, I forget which) had taught bayonet skill in the Army, but the
bayonet had not been used as a serious weapon since WWI.
If you have questions or comments or anything about Traveller, please
ask. That's what the list is for.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1824
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Traveller-digest Friday, January 28 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1825
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
of fascists and mind-rapers (Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Starmap for free
Re: One Of Those Subjects We Don't Talk about
Re: of fascists and mind-rapers (Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: Creator of Traveller is?
Re: Question on starship fuel
Re: Question on starship fuel
OT - post
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Question on starship fuel
Re: Question on starship fuel
Re: Question on starship fuel
How did Traveller get a grip on me - Long
Famous professors,student radicals, and the like (was Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED School attempt)
Re: LH2 fuel!
RE: Question on starship fuel
Re: Question on starship fuel
Why is Traveller so appealing?
Re: what keeps you coming back for more traveller
What got me into Trav and keeps me coming back
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:26:55 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin"
Subject: of fascists and mind-rapers (Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
> From: "Rupert Boleyn"
> What's wrong with a cold war vs the Solomani? Is it no fun if they
> can't read you mind? I'd have thought the facist Solo's a fine foe.
1) One of the great joys of serving an empire so large as this is that
you can choose which enemies to fight.
2) It is somewhat difficult for many to oppose the Solomani with zeal.
They're blood relatives, after all, and they just want a few fairly
basic things that many Imperial humans have a hard time arguing
against: racial and cultural purity; a dominant position for the
Solomani race; self-determination; control of Terra by the race it
spawned; nifty fascist uniforms.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:31:52 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
> From: "Alvin"
>
> OK, so how on earth did Traveller get such a grip on me?
>
It's good to have Alvin back.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:43:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
At 20:42 -0500 27/1/00, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:
> > http://www.scifi-az.com/astronomy/astrogators_handbook.htm
> > ObTrav: You'll know when you get there.
> > Dom
>
>*VERY* Cool! Thanks for posting the link! At about 300k it's well worth
>the download! I've been wanting something like this. I for one am going to
>be tempted to order the expanded version. Still for what I'm needing this
>is good enough for a start. Most excellent!
I'm tempted too, but I've got to look at the cost of shipping the
hardcopy version from the USA.
For those of you who haven't looked, the site has Near star data ,
locations and maps for 25 light years around Sol. ISTR I got the link
from sfconsim-l.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:16:28 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: One Of Those Subjects We Don't Talk about
"Bruce Macintosh" wrote
> There were many arguments on the TTL about carrying fuel as water, because
> it lets you pack many more kg of hydrogen into a m3 even if you throw away
> the oxygen, but that's One Of Those Subjects We Don't Talk about these days.
G'day Bruce,
Are you suggesting that the TML is just one big, happy,
dysfunctional family that dares not disturb its artificial
placidity by exploring threatening topics?
It sounds as if we need a Traveller 12 step program
and possibly an associated "handwave" codependency 12
step group.
Traveller's Anonymous
One
We admitted we were powerless over Traveller - that our
gaming lives had become unmanageable.
Two
Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves (Marc)
could restore Traveller to sanity.
Three
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to
the care of Traveller as we understood it.
Four
Made a searching and fearless inventory of our Traveller
collections.
Five
Admitted to Marc, to ourselves, and another human being
the exact nature of our wrongs.
Six
Were entirely ready to have Marc remove all these defects
of character.
Seven
Humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings.
Eight
Made a list of all persons we had harmed because of our
addiction to Traveller, and became willing to make amends
to them all.
Nine
Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except
when to do so would injure them or others.
Ten
Continued to take a Traveller inventory and when we were
missing an obscure licensed Traveller item we promptly
admitted it.
Eleven
Sought through reading and meditation to improve our
conscious understanding of Traveller as we understood it,
praying only for knowledge of Traveller's plans for us
and the power to carry them out.
Twelve
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these
steps, we tried to carry this message to other Traveller
addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
this is a slight paraphrase of the 12 steps of other
programs, as found at:
http://www.12stepmeetings.com/12step/12x12.htm
[This humorous message is not intended to make light of
the real problems that others may be struggling with.]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:13:12 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: of fascists and mind-rapers (Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
On 28 Jan 00, at 23:26, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > From: "Rupert Boleyn"
>
> > What's wrong with a cold war vs the Solomani? Is it no fun if they can't
> > read you mind? I'd have thought the facist Solo's a fine foe.
>
> 1) One of the great joys of serving an empire so large as this is that you
> can choose which enemies to fight.
>
> 2) It is somewhat difficult for many to oppose the Solomani with zeal.
> They're blood relatives, after all, and they just want a few fairly basic
> things that many Imperial humans have a hard time arguing against: racial
> and cultural purity; a dominant position for the Solomani race;
> self-determination; control of Terra by the race it spawned; nifty fascist
> uniforms.
I long ago came to the conclusion that most of my friends (and
myself) felt that we were on the wrong side. We never played in the
Solomani Rim partly because the GM of the time wouldn't let us play
SolSec Agents, and we weren't interested in playing evil Impies over
there. Good Impies in the March was different, though (mind you
Sword Worlders or maybe Darrians were more popular).
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:13:12 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Creator of Traveller is?
On 27 Jan 00, at 23:24, Steven Hudson wrote:
> >From: "Giuseppe"
> >Subject: Creator of Traveller is?
> ...
> >contributions (well...that Virus think really sucks, but I igore it...my
> >TU is perennially stuck in 1105 or so :) ).
>
> Opinions on how/how much/why Virus sucks/rules are generally in bad form
> :)
Na, it's about time we had a little flame war again. After all it's been
at least a week, and there's far too much signal... :)
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:13:12 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
On 27 Jan 00, at 18:38, Bruce Macintosh wrote:
> There were many arguments on the TTL about carrying fuel as water, because
> it lets you pack many more kg of hydrogen into a m3 even if you throw away
> the oxygen, but that's One Of Those Subjects We Don't Talk about these
> days.
I rather liked the idea, until I started using mass not volume for thrust
calculations, that is. Besides it's so much less fun when you hit a
water tank, compared to one full of H2.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:25:33 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
> There were many arguments on the TTL about carrying fuel as water, because
> it lets you pack many more kg of hydrogen into a m3 even if you throw away
> the oxygen, but that's One Of Those Subjects We Don't Talk about these
> days.
I rather liked the idea, until I started using mass not volume for thrust
calculations, that is. Besides it's so much less fun when you hit a
water tank, compared to one full of H2.
I've just realised that the ship must be immersed in the Water
Supply/Gas Giant and I've designed a ship that takes twelve days to refine a
full fuel load
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:10:01 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: OT - post
My apologies for this off topic post.
I have a vacancy for a player in my T2K variant PbEM, if you're
interested could you please contact me at:
jimpeta@primus.com.au
Thanks,
Jim.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 06:44:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Glenn Goffin said:
[snip]
> One important thing to which I might not normally give as much
> importance as it is due is the fact that I got involved in
> Traveller in my early 20s -- and we all know about how the music
> that we were listening to in our early 20s is the best music
> ever made. So maybe that's true of rpg's, as well -- but then I
> also first played Aftermath, Bushido, Runequest, and of course
> D&D and AD&D at that time, but have spent almost no time on any
> of them since.
Do I know you? We were playing those EXACT same games in my
early years... Still stick with AD&D, RuneQuest, and Traveller.
AD&D is still the best for a quick fantasy pick-up game,
there's something about the 3rd Imperium (though curiously enough,
I started playing in a very early, pre-Spinward Marches GM, and
he had rolled his own star kingdom to play around in--by some
odd coincidence, the capital of "The 14 Worlds" was also named
Regina, and he just folded his campaign into the Spinward Marches
when it came out.) And Runequest--I keep coming back to Glorantha.
Where else can you play merchant trolls working for a talking catfish?
Or Death-god worshipping ducks? And it actually makes sense!
(And one of these days we will finally climb Condor Crags...)
--Cynthia
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 04:08:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
In mail you write:
> From: "Roger Barr"
>
>>I had the idea that fuel storage on starships was a large
>>area that held plain purified water.
>
> Further to my previous post, water can be run through a fuel
> purification plant and turned into fuel. The purification
> system separates the oxygen and hydrogen for various purposes
> (life support or just waste and fuel).
>
> Unrefined fuel, as I understand it, is just water. I guess you
> can fill your fuel tanks with water and run the water through
> the power plant and j-drive, which will use almost all of the
> hydrogen and waste the oxygen. Maybe I should leave this
> question to the gear heads.
Unrefined fuel seems (from my impression) to actually be LH2. But with
"contaminants". Most likely would be various hydrogen isotopes, and
traces of other elements. Any of which can readily screw up a hydrogen
fusion reaction by either reacting too well, or by taking energy out of
the reaction.
Just as one example, if your reactor can "burn" pure hydrogen-1 (aka
"protium") adding deuterium, tritium or Helium-3 to the mix will be
outright *dangerous, because they'll fuse at far lower
temperatures/pressures. Which means they might start fusing somewhere
in the fuel "injector" process.
Given the amounts of fuel that seem required for a given amount of
energy, Traveller fusion reactors likely fuse some mix of heavier
isotopes (D-D, D-T, etc).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 04:15:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
In mail you write:
> From: Roger Barr
>> I have seen references in the TML about l-hyd explosions upon a fuel
> storage
>> breach.
>>
>> Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd?
>
> LHyd. And in spite of what some have said, there is almost
> no chance of it exploding. Pure hydrogen will not burn
> without an oxidant.
But you *can* get the equivalent of a "steam explosion" if it gets too
warm. Especially if you do something that dumps a lot of energy into
it.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 04:00:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
In mail you write:
> Azhanti High Lightning, a very early reference, is quite clear
> that it's liquid hydrogen. AHL rules provide that anyone who
> enters a full fuel tank is instantly killed by the liquid
> hydrogen, whether wearing battle dress or not. I understand
> that it's so cold and so insidious that it freezes everything to
> a state of brittleness and gets inside any attempts to seal
> openings.
Hydrogen *gas* is pretty insidious. LH2 isn't all that bad.
But hydrogen liquifies at about -253 C (20 K). That's *damn* cold. Room
temp is around 300 K. Temp differences are logaritmic. So the diff
between 20 K and 300 K is the "same" as the diff between 300 K and 4500
K!
So just consider the effects of taking an object at 4500 K (about 4200
C) and exposing it to a liquid at 30 K.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:29:57 -0500
From: "Chris Dixon"
Subject: How did Traveller get a grip on me - Long
Well, I have to think way back.
It must have been 1980 or 81, my friend Lee Pembelton introduced me to a
great game called Snapshot. We would alternate between hijacker and
crew and blast the crap out of each other for hours.
We finally got tired of the Scout and Free trader maps that came with
the game and started designing our own.
I think it was me that stumbled on the Black Box with the blood red
lettering. (Kind of like the Monolith in 2001) I took it with me to my
Dad's for the weekend and got completely wrapped up in the
possibilities.
I had played D&D and AD&D so I was familiar with role-playing games but
this one was different. The system was completely open ended and you
could invent any background you wanted. Of course I found out about the
3I soon thereafter and became hooked.
I usually GM'd any games we'd play but I did run solitaire games with
two characters that I rolled up after I bought Highguard. I killed many
many hours Jumping around the spinward marches trading cargo, rolling
random encounters and having a grand old time.
I fought and ref ought the doomed Solomani resistance on Earth and I
managed to hold off the Zhodani Menace in Fifth Frontier War. I later
used the Canon Setting set in the years just before and during the Fifth
Frontier War. My PC's (real ones this time not just me!) were on the
Spinward Main when the fighting broke out and were pressed into service
running cargo and special detachments for the Imperium.
I also ran a campaign where the PC's were still on active duty in the
Imperial Navy and Marines and assigned to a Gazelle class close escort.
They were a little more restricted in what they could do, but as a GM it
was much easier to issue orders directing them to a particular system
(or systems) than "hope" they wound up there on their own.
Regrettably I gave away all of my RPG stuff, including Traveller when I
left the US for the Gulf War (I had other things on my mind).
Fortunately one of my compadres that I gave the Traveller stuff to still
has it in storage so hopefully I'll see it soon.
The Traveller spark was rekindled only recently during a conversation
with a friend of mine recently who was complaining about the lack of a
good Sci-Fi RPG online.
I went home and typed in Traveller on my search engine and was sucked
back in to the Traveller of my youth. I can't comment on TNE, or Gurps
as I've never seen the system.
I've been on the TML for a few months, have recently joined a Traveller
PBEM (woo hoo!), I'm waiting not-so-paitiently for the Traveller
reprints, I've downloaded about 30 megs worth of programs, pics, house
rules and other ideas, and I'm working on a new campaign set on Earth at
first contact with the Vilani Empire.
I guess Traveller still has a grip on me!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:23:14 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart"
Subject: Famous professors,student radicals, and the like (was Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED School attempt)
>
> For those that can't do schools, how about NPCs like famous professors,
> student radicals, and the like?
>
>
Here is one Prof. for the list. I'll leave it to you to fill in the
details. He was made using MTCG (a wonderful MegaTraveller (c) character
generation program written by Greg Svenson.)(don't remember the web page I
downloaded it form)
Character Description
Name: Memam Bacaesatur Ph.D. Vegan male UPP 7C7BFB
age: 62 apparent age: 62
Homeworld A456A86F (Muan Gwi)
University graduate
Graduate school graduate honors
Career: Scientist
Rank: E1 Pension: 18000 Credits: 120000
Discoveries: breakthrough, majorx5, minorx9,
Skills:
History - 5, Admin - 3, Archaeology - 3, Computer - 2, Carousing - 1,
Electronics - 1,Forgery - 1, Gravitics - 1, Handgun - 1, Robot Ops - 1,
Sensor Ops - 1, Survey - 1, Weapons Tech* - 1, Zero-G - 1, Grav Vehicle - 0
Property:
Lab Ship (20 year loan), Middle Passagex2, Low Passage,
Wayne
wewart@home.com
icq22113294
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/
The wage of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the
evil get to go home early on Friday.
- - Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad
(Terry Pratchett)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:28:56 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: LH2 fuel!
Giuseppe writes:
>>> Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd?
>> L-Hyd. (aka LH2)
>OUCH! This makes a laser hit of "fuel tanks" a very, very, very,
>scary proposition!
Only if there is some oxygen (or other oxydent) handy.
L-Hyd leaking into crew spaces could be nasty, causing
refridgeration of the occupants and a danger of combustion.
>Anyone have any house rules for appending armour to classic
>traveller ? I think I'll need it a lot more!
I use a tweeked version of LBB2 combat which includes a
table that indicates how much to reduce damage, depending
on the weapon, armour value, and a roll on 2D. For the
basic starship laser, an armour value of 1 will stop all
damage on a roll of 10+, and each level of armour reduces
that by 1 (9+ for AV 2, 8+ for AV 3, etc.).
>(a special alloy I had to devise as a plot device to explain how
>the ships take damage merely by a reduction of HP until they
>reach zero when they blow up into dust clouds).
It is very difficult IMTU to blow up a starship, but I do
have a subtable for "Hull" hits that allows, among other
things, damage to the main structural members of the vessel.
Too much damage to these may result in the ship breaking up
under acceleration.
>Survivability of PCs that get into space combats would lower
>drammatically though
I didn't like the lack of risk to the PCs personal safety
in starship combat, so the aforementioned Hull hit subtable
allows damage to specific areas of the ship. If anyone is
in the area hit, they must roll to avoid taking damage from
flying debris.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:32:00 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Question on starship fuel
Glenn Goffin writes:
>I understand that it's so cold and so insidious that it freezes
>everything to a state of brittleness and gets inside any
>attempts to seal openings.
Although the fuel system itself is apparently able to
handle it. Presumable the need for flexibility, and the
fact that Battle Dress is not specifically designed to
survive L-Hyd, contribute to the problem.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:47:49 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
Bruce Macintosh writes:
>You don't actually need that much oxygen for life support; the
>water vapour people exhale can easily be broken down for more.
I don't think that we exhale enough water to produce enough
oxygen to breath. Even if we did, where do we get the
water? Breaking up the CO2 that we exhale seems more
useful.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:26:20 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: Why is Traveller so appealing?
Well, I can tell you that I about 13 when Star Wars came out. I was
enthralled with the entire concept: A huge evil empire and the fact that a
farm boy and a smuggler/tramp freighter pilot could play such a pivotal role
in fighting tyranny. I was in love with science-fiction/science-fantasy in
serious way.
I got the Traveller rules within a year or so of that experience.
I guess I never grew out of that first love...
Roger Barr
travelerGM@aol.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:28:47 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: Re: what keeps you coming back for more traveller
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:53:50 -0500
From: "Alvin"
OK, so how on earth did Traveller get such a grip on me?
Good question.
[ Think. Think. Think. ]
Uh oh. Sounds like another Blue's Clues fan...
Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:07:18 -0700
From: "Eric T. Holmes"
Subject: What got me into Trav and keeps me coming back
- --=====================_14624611==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fellow Citizens:
Why do I keep going back for more Traveller?
I started role playing in 1978, after years of board gaming and miniature=
war
gaming since 1965. I wanted something different, and space opera-ish like
=93Star Wars.=94 I was 22, single, still a kid, and assigned to a cold=
waste-land
in North Dakota. I needed to forget that I was really a trained killer on a
global magnitude.
The bug bit=85.Traveller was the only RPG for me. I tried DnD, Rolemaster,
Arduin Grimoire, Tunnels and Trolls, Pendragon and Space Opera to name a=
few.=20
Nothing held my attention like Traveller. Nothing has the flavor of sci-fi=
as
Traveller, and I was able to create my universe, not just a world. I was=
able
to get people to visit places in their mind=92s eye that only they could
imagine. We attempted everything, from designing and drawing up ships, to
exploring and detailing worlds. The players developed most of =93my=94=
Spinward
Marches worlds. And we created a story line and became story tellers. =
History
was ours to create.
At the local gaming club sessions, when my alert schedule allowed, I ran
Traveller, Friday-nite, all day Saturday and even Sunday afternoon. =
Sometimes
the same scenario was played over the entire weekend. I had six regular
players, and two or three jumps-ins if they knew I was running. Time was=
not
critical, nor was responsibility. Just getting that last pirate ship or=
last
tank or last cargo.
Real life eventually kept me away. Lack of players inevitably took over=
while
I was overseas with the Air Force. Rolemaster took over because I couldn=92=
t get
my hands on Traveller stuff while in Germany. Besides, Tolkein and Hobbits,=
I
mean Hobbits, not DnD Hobbits, were more popular than Storm Troopers, Hammer
Slammers and Ogre=92s. I always wanted a sci-fi game. Even now, here in=
New
Mexico, it=92s hard to find people my age (40 something) willing to pick up
role-playing, let alone Traveller.
But, I enjoy scanning through and lurking the TML. It keeps the desire=
alive.=20
And I admit I concentrate on Classic Traveller and believe that is just a=
place
to start. Don=92t get me wrong, all the other Traveller re-iterations have=
their
place. For my part, CT is it, because CT allows the most flexibility, and=
it
is simple. My wife keeps reminding me not to try to build a better=
mousetrap.=20
Functionality and simplicity. That=92s probably the key.
Eric
eholmes@lanl.gov holmberg@thuntek.net=20
7am to 4pm Mountain Time 6pm to Midnight Mountain Time
IMTU: he+, tc+, tm, tne, t4, tg, tt, to, ru, ge, 3i+, c+, jt, au, st, ls+,=
pi+,
ta+,=20
as+, va+, dr+, _sa_, kk--, hi--, so++, zh, vi, da, sy, _hu_=
=20
(sa =3D other sapients, hu =3D other humani)
Lacedaemon, we have done our duty.
- --=====================_14624611==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fellow Citizens:
Why do I keep going back for more Traveller?
I started role playing in 1978, after years of board gaming and miniaturewar gaming since 1965. I wanted something different, and space opera-ish like =93Star Wars.=94 I was 22, single, still a kid, and assigned to a cold waste-land in North Dakota. I needed to forgetthat I was really a trained killer on a global magnitude.
The bug bit=85.Traveller was the only RPG for me. I tried DnD, Rolemaster, Arduin Grimoire, Tunnels and Trolls, Pendragon and Space Opera to name a few. Nothing held my attention like Traveller. Nothing has the flavor of sci-fi as Traveller, and I wasable to create my universe, not just a world. I was able to get people to visit places in their mind=92s eye that only they could imagine. We attempted everything, from designing and drawing up ships, to exploring and detailing worlds. The players developed most of =93my=94 Spinward Marches worlds. And we created a story line and became story tellers. History was ours to create.
At the local gaming club sessions, when my alert schedule allowed, I ran Traveller, Friday-nite, all day Saturday and even Sunday afternoon. Sometimes the same scenario was played over the entire weekend. I had six regular players, and two or three jumps-ins if they knew I was running. Time was not critical, nor was responsibility. Justgetting that last pirate ship or last tank or last cargo.
Real life eventually kept me away. Lack of players inevitably took over while I was overseas with the Air Force. Rolemaster took over because I couldn=92t get my hands on Traveller stuff while in Germany. Besides, Tolkein and Hobbits, I mean Hobbits, not DnD Hobbits, were more popular than Storm Troopers, Hammer Slammers and Ogre=92s. I always wanted a sci-fi game. Even now, here in New Mexico, it=92s hard to find people my age (40 something) willing to pick up role-playing, let alone Traveller.
But, I enjoy scanning through and lurking the TML. It keeps the desire alive. And I admit I concentrate on Classic Traveller and believe that is just a place to start. Don=92t get me wrong, all the other Traveller re-iterations have their place. For my part, CT is it, because CT allows the most flexibility, and it is simple. My wife keeps reminding me not to try to build a better mousetrap. Functionality and simplicity. That=92s probably the key.
Eric
eholmes@lanl.gov = &=nbsp; holmberg@thuntek.net
7am to 4pm Mountain Time 6pm to MidnightMountain Time
IMTU: he+, tc+, tm, tne, t4, tg, tt, to, ru, ge, 3i+, c+, jt, au,st, ls+, pi+, ta+,
&=nbsp; as+,va+, dr+, _sa_, kk--, hi--, so++, zh, vi, da, sy, _hu_
&=nbsp; &n=bsp; (sa=3D other sapients, hu =3D other humani)
Lacedaemon, we have done our duty.
- --=====================_14624611==_.ALT--
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1825
***********************************
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Traveller-digest Friday, January 28 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1826
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Sword Worlder names
Re: Starmap for free
Re: Traveller Topic PostsGlenn
Re: Why is Traveller so appealing?
Re: Armed Kangeroos
Re: Starmap for free
Re: Starmap for free
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Starmap for free
h20 as fuel
An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: h20 as fuel
Re: Question on starship fuel
Re: LH2 fuel!
Re: Marc & me
Re: Alvin's Posts
Re: what keeps you coming back for more traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1824
Re: Micah
RE: Traveller Topic Posts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:24:16 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names
Robert Prior wrote:
> I interpretted this to mean that at least some of the time a daughter
> will be named for the mother. No idea if this is for illegitimate
> kids only, or whether all daughters are named for mother and boys for
> father, or what. I'd be curious to learn how it's really done.
I might be wrong here, but I think that I am correct.
I have never seen any names on the form "son of mother," so I assume
that this wasn't generally done. It seems as if sons with this type of
last name used the "son of father" form, while daugthers can/could use
either "daughter of father" or "daughter of mother." There were probably
variations depending on location, time period (fashion), and perhaps the
social relationships (illegitimate children, daughters to a father who
wanted a son, and so on).
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:25:01 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
I hate to be a stellar snob but it wasn't much to my liking.
The data appear only to use Gliese catalog data rather than include updates
from the more recent Hipparcos mission. Also, the data appear to be in
equitorial coordinates rather than galactic coordinates,
for those of you familiar with the CHview data it contains more of the
Hipparcos catalog. i've downloaded it into an Excel spreadsheet and
converted the coordinates to galactic.
If people are interested i'll make it available off-list. Do you think
people on sfconsim-l or 2300ad would be interested?
- -----Original Message-----
From: SD Mooney
>>
>>*VERY* Cool! Thanks for posting the link! At about 300k it's well worth
>>the download! I've been wanting something like this. I for one am going
to
>>be tempted to order the expanded version. Still for what I'm needing this
>>is good enough for a start. Most excellent!
>
>I'm tempted too, but I've got to look at the cost of shipping the
>hardcopy version from the USA.
>
>For those of you who haven't looked, the site has Near star data ,
>locations and maps for 25 light years around Sol. ISTR I got the link
>from sfconsim-l.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:48:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic PostsGlenn
>From: Cynthia Higginbotham
>Glenn Goffin said:[snip]
>> One important thing to which I might not normally give as
much
>> importance as it is due is the fact that I got involved in
>> Traveller in my early 20s -- and we all know about how the
>Do I know you? We were playing those EXACT same games in my
>early years... Still stick with AD&D, RuneQuest, and Traveller.
>AD&D is still the best for a quick fantasy pick-up game,
Maybe, but I think your name is just familiar from the list.
Were you at Swarthmore in the late 70s?
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:01:13 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Why is Traveller so appealing?
On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:26:20 EST, Roger Barr wrote:
> Well, I can tell you that I about 13 when Star Wars came out. I was
> enthralled with the entire concept: A huge evil empire and the fact that a
> farm boy and a smuggler/tramp freighter pilot could play such a pivotal role
> in fighting tyranny. I was in love with science-fiction/science-fantasy in
> serious way.
For me I think it was "Alien" (1979). Although it didn't have the space
battles, alien bazaars, and classic storyline, Alien did have the dark,
gritty realism that I prefer in sci-fi (not to mention vastly superior
visual effects-- which is pretty amazing in my book if you consider for a
moment that only two years separated these two movies).
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ:#7521644
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody can be just like me. Even I have trouble.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:05:17 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Armed Kangeroos
Via electronic medium on 1/20/00 7:01 AM, thomharr@mediaone.net wrote:
> What's a quokka?
Are you talking about /equus quagga/, extinct relative of the zebra?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:32:10 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
Dom... wonderful link... and many thanks. I have a copy of the Gliese
catalogue on my hard drive, but I hadn't yet found enough time to learn
how to translate the given values to carthesian coordinates.
Guess what? This little cute document has those coordinates printed
already... :-)
Zane wrote:
> *VERY* Cool! Thanks for posting the link! At about 300k it's well
> worth the download!
Since the download took less than ten seconds for me, I agree in full
:-)
Seriously, even if you have a slow connection, GET THIS DOCUMENT!
> I've been wanting something like this. I for
> one am going to be tempted to order the expanded version. Still for
> what I'm needing this is good enough for a start. Most excellent!
I will order the expanded version, but I have yet to decide if I will
order the electronic or the hardcover version.
The way I read their order form, the cost of shipping does not depend on
where in the world I am. This seems wrong to me. I have to find out what
the shipping cost would be...
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
(who needed this material for his upcoming campaign)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:45:19 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
Eric Henry wrote:
> The data appear only to use Gliese catalog data rather than include
> updates from the more recent Hipparcos mission. Also, the data
> appear to be in equitorial coordinates rather than galactic
> coordinates,
Could you please explain the different coordinate systems?
> for those of you familiar with the CHview data it contains more of
> the Hipparcos catalog. i've downloaded it into an Excel spreadsheet
> and converted the coordinates to galactic.
What I am looking for is carthesian coordinates (XYZ) for the stars in
the near-Sol region of space. If you have those built from a good
database, then I am very interested indeed.
Otherwise I'll stick with this file, larger or smaller version. I want
to use stars that my players will recognize somewhat. If minor details
are wrong, then so be it. But it would be good to have a more current
data set if there is one available.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:44:45 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Cynthia Higginbotham writes:
>Glenn Goffin said:
>>also first played Aftermath, Bushido, Runequest, and of course
>>D&D and AD&D at that time, but have spent almost no time on any
>>of them since.
>Do I know you? We were playing those EXACT same games in my
>early years... Still stick with AD&D, RuneQuest, and Traveller.
>AD&D is still the best for a quick fantasy pick-up game,
There is a pattern here, I have always favoured Traveller,
Aftermath, and Runequest. The Morrow Project and FASA's
Star Trek TRPG are also up there, but AD&D has faded for me
somewhat.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:48:23 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
Galactic coordinates use the plane of the galaxy rather than the plane of
Earth's equator.
It's just a matter of taste that i prefer galactic.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jens Rydholm
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Friday, January 28, 2000 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
>Eric Henry wrote:
>> The data appear only to use Gliese catalog data rather than include
>> updates from the more recent Hipparcos mission. Also, the data
>> appear to be in equitorial coordinates rather than galactic
>> coordinates,
>
>Could you please explain the different coordinate systems?
>
>> for those of you familiar with the CHview data it contains more of
>> the Hipparcos catalog. i've downloaded it into an Excel spreadsheet
>> and converted the coordinates to galactic.
>
>What I am looking for is carthesian coordinates (XYZ) for the stars in
>the near-Sol region of space. If you have those built from a good
>database, then I am very interested indeed.
>
>Otherwise I'll stick with this file, larger or smaller version. I want
>to use stars that my players will recognize somewhat. If minor details
>are wrong, then so be it. But it would be good to have a more current
>data set if there is one available.
>
>/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:47:14 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: h20 as fuel
"Bruce Macintosh" wrote
> There were many arguments on the TTL about carrying fuel as water, because
> it lets you pack many more kg of hydrogen into a m3 even if you throw away
> the oxygen, but that's One Of Those Subjects We Don't Talk about these days.
Lessee... under MT, as that's my preferred ruleset....
1/9~ 0.111
0.07/0.111 is the fuel reduction ratio (IE, the ratio of Td redution), ~.63
Jump Fuel
Need to be able to purify in 20 minutes or less, assuming the rub from HG
that you have to burn the fuel in one turn to jump. Or, 18x the jump fuel
per 6 hours.
PP Fuel
Need to be able to purify enough fuel every 6 hours for 6 hours worth of PP
fuel. that's easy.
So, if you want a 100Td, J2 you need purification capable of 15% (under MT,
remember? MT has lower JFuel costs) of hull or 15Td in 20 minutes. That's
120Td per 6 hours, or 162kl (13.5 kl to the MT Td) per 6 hours.
using the tl 15 fpp:
Power Vol Wt
0.005 0.2 0.4 Cr150
x162 x162 x162 x162
===============================================================
0.81MW 32.4kl 64.8 Cr24300
We're still below the 40kl mimimum...
which gives us:
200MW 40KL 80Tm KCr30
that's 2.96Td of extra equipment
15x0.63= 9.45 Td of Fuel required So, you still saveabout 2.5 Td
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:58:39 +0100 (MET)
From: Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de
Subject: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Hi!
I've asked myself what in-universe-explanation there might be for the
two-dimensional jumpspace maps in the background. I know, the actual
reason is simplicity, and after I tried my own approach for 3D in
Traveller, I understand that even better.
Just to add a little bit flavour and athmosphere, I 've found the
following (my original idea was improved with the help of Jeff Zeitlin and
Marc Miller):
"Jumpspace is a phenomenon separate from normal space, but related to
normal space in a specific manner: It seems that the masses of the
galaxy's stars form an extrauniversal structure, which is at average
just 0.3 LY thick, but endlessly wide and long when speaking of its
corresponding expanse in normal space. For simplicity, this
corresponding
expanse will be called "jump space" in the following. The foreign
universe where the actual transport takes place will be called "jump
space universe".
Like a crumpled table cover, jump space touches almost every star system
in Charted Space. The most accepted explanation for this is that jump
space is formed by all these masses.
Ships with a jump drive are able to jump into the jumpspace universe by
being within jump space and activating their drive system. The jump
drive transports the ship into one of six "layers" of the jump space
universe, where it automatically travels not a specific distance (not
3,27 LY), but something called a "jump
distance". It is believed that this movement is comparable to a peice of
wood in a river. After about 170 hours, less-understood effects of a
universe's ability to get rid of "universe-foreign matter" push the ship
back into its universe of origin.
The actual length of the "jump distance" is dependent on the structure
of the jump space universe, which seems to be far from being homogenous.
The actual distance travelled is therefore dependent of the location
where you travel.
The fact that a "jump distance" is generally called a "parsec" is a
matter of history: One jump distance equals about 3.3 LY between Sol and
Barnard's Star (and only there). When the Solomani encountered and later
conquered the Vilani empire, they substituted the old Vilani expression
for "jump distance" with an expression they were familiar with: Parsec.
Of course, keeping this in mind, it makes no sense to map the actual
positions of stars in space.
Instead, star maps are maps of the jump space structure, counting not
true distances, but jump distances.
And those maps are, of course:
Two-dimensional."
What do you think?
- --
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist IMO. Sogar Physik.
Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:01:01 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
On 28 Jan 00, at 6:44, Cynthia Higginbotham wrote:
> Glenn Goffin said:
> [snip]
> > One important thing to which I might not normally give as much
> > importance as it is due is the fact that I got involved in
> > Traveller in my early 20s -- and we all know about how the music
> > that we were listening to in our early 20s is the best music
> > ever made. So maybe that's true of rpg's, as well -- but then I
> > also first played Aftermath, Bushido, Runequest, and of course
> > D&D and AD&D at that time, but have spent almost no time on any
> > of them since.
>
> Do I know you? We were playing those EXACT same games in my
> early years... Still stick with AD&D, RuneQuest, and Traveller.
> AD&D is still the best for a quick fantasy pick-up game,
> there's something about the 3rd Imperium (though curiously enough,
> I started playing in a very early, pre-Spinward Marches GM, and
> he had rolled his own star kingdom to play around in--by some
> odd coincidence, the capital of "The 14 Worlds" was also named
> Regina, and he just folded his campaign into the Spinward Marches
> when it came out.) And Runequest--I keep coming back to Glorantha.
> Where else can you play merchant trolls working for a talking catfish? Or
> Death-god worshipping ducks? And it actually makes sense! (And one of
> these days we will finally climb Condor Crags...)
That was my initial response, too (less AD&D, plus C&S). However
as I grew up in provincial New Zealand I decided the answer was no.
When it comes to RQ how about the Duck swashbuckler bandits? I
always liked Gloranthan Trolls (from a safe distance, of course).
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
Inside every cynic there's a romantic struggling to get out.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:05:36 -0500
From: Ethan Henry
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
"Luther Martin" wrote:
>
> Perhaps "evil" is the wrong term for the Godless Commies, but I can't think
> of a better short, concise description of them (yes, I know it was really
> only a few guys at the top). History will certainly not look favorably upon
> them. I'm not saying that my side was perfect, but in my view, we were a
> good bit better.
Uh, well, maybe you're about the most biased person to weigh in on
the subject and historians will bring their own biases in, which may
make you look a lot less rosy than you think you are.
> Hey, here's an idea. A potential use for Cuba. A living history theme park.
> "Come see real live socialists as they drive their bicycles to work." We
> could take groups of school-aged kids there on field trips. We could do the
> same for North Korea, but you would have to bring your own food.
At the risk of starting a big flame war here, I find your attitude
really offensive.
You want to see a big socialist theme park? It's called "Canada" and the
UN consistently rates it as a pretty decent place to live. Bring your own
parka though.
Desperate attempt for an ObTrav: What the predominant mode of 3I
historiography? Does Imperials view history predominantly as a military,
social or economic flow of events? Are "mainstream" Imperial historians
kind or cruel to the Imperium's own actions? For example, is the reign
of the Barracks Emperors seen as a legitimate attempt to determine secession
or as an ignoble farce, a blight on the otherwise glorious line of rulers?
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:16:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: h20 as fuel
William F. Hostman writes:
> So, if you want a 100Td, J2 you need purification capable of 15% (under MT,
> remember? MT has lower JFuel costs) of hull or 15Td in 20 minutes. That's
> 120Td per 6 hours, or 162kl (13.5 kl to the MT Td) per 6 hours.
Um...15 tD/20 minutes = 270 Td per 6 hours. 270 Td/6 hours = 3645 kl/6 hours.
> using the tl 15 fpp:
> Power Vol Wt
> 0.005 0.2 0.4 Cr150
> x162 x162 x162 x162
> ===============================================================
> 0.81MW 32.4kl 64.8 Cr24300
18.225MW 729kl (54TD) 1458T Cr546,750
The power plant slice for that is fairly negligible, but adding 54 tD of
equipment to replace 7.5 tD of fuel tankage is not exactly efficient.
Now, where this becomes efficient is if you want a really long range ship,
which will travel some distance in two or more jumps without refueling.
If you want to go J-12 (in 2 jumps), a ship which uses straight fuel tankage
is going to require 70 tD of fuel (plus power plant requirements). However,
if you replace the second 35 tD fuel tank with a 3.5tD fuel processor (capable
of filling a 35 tD tank in 12 hours) plus a 22.5 tD water tank (holding 35 tD
of hydrogen) you've saved 9 tD. You'll also save a bit more, since you can
easily store regular power plant fuel as water (not sure what MT power plant
fuel requirements are).
This is mainly useful if you're trying to do something dramatic, like crossing
the great rift.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:49:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
In mail you write:
> Bruce Macintosh writes:
>>You don't actually need that much oxygen for life support; the
>>water vapour people exhale can easily be broken down for more.
>
>
> I don't think that we exhale enough water to produce enough
> oxygen to breath. Even if we did, where do we get the
> water? Breaking up the CO2 that we exhale seems more
> useful.
The basic energy equation for terran life:
CxHx2Ox + X O2 -> X CO2 + X H2O
^generic carbohydrate
So yeah, CO2 *is* what gets produced, but just as much water is
released, and the water is easier to break down. Of course most of that
water is not *exhaled*. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:56:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: LH2 fuel!
In mail you write:
> Giuseppe writes:
>>>> Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd?
>>> L-Hyd. (aka LH2)
>>OUCH! This makes a laser hit of "fuel tanks" a very, very, very,
>>scary proposition!
>
> Only if there is some oxygen (or other oxydent) handy.
No, dump lots of energy into a *liquid* over a *short* period and it
will turn into a vapor. *Explosively*.
> L-Hyd leaking into crew spaces could be nasty, causing
> refridgeration of the occupants and a danger of combustion.
Very nasty give the range over which oxygen hydrogen mixtures will
ignite/explode.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:08:31 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Marc & me
In a message dated 00-01-28 02:50:09 EST, you write:
>>From what I gather, Marc Miller is the original creator of the Traveller
>> RPG, HOWEVER....is this completely true? I seem to recall some reference
>> (or perhaps dedication?) to person/s in the US armed forces in the very
early
>> (first) editions of the little black books.
>
> One or both of them were in the U.S. military. There is a comment in an
> early JTAS editorial about blade skill that noted that the author (Marc
> or Loren, I forget which) had taught bayonet skill in the Army.
That was Marc.
Several of us contributed to the LBBs: Marc (of course) Frank Chadwick, John
Harshman, and my humble self, among others. Of the original founders of GDW,
Marc and Rich Banner (our art director and one of the original Europa
designers) were in the Army. Frank and I were never in the service (although
I can see why people might think that).
Loren Wiseman
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:44:08 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Alvin's Posts
On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:51:04 -0500 (EST), Russell Bornschlegel
wrote:
>My position: Alvin's posts are unquestionably ontopic and, as such,
>are unimpeachable. However, I'd find them more convenient on a web
>site - I find myself reading about three lines, then mine eyes
>glazeth over, and I scroll past.
Have no fear; Your Intrepid Freelance Traveller is archiving
them, soon to appear on a web page near (in a hypertopological
sense) http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller or
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm.
�Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture
Enterprises, 1977-1999. Use of the trademark in
this notice and in the referenced materials is not
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller� Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:04:42 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: what keeps you coming back for more traveller
>now mind you i haven't even started pl,aying traveller yet..but when i heard
>about it i jumped right in and bought the stuff for it...and even now i'm
>getting more stuff...its a mind thrilling action packed game....for pretty
>much everyones tastes..its not one of those sci-fi games where everything is
>alien..its got its monsters..its demons...its god like thingies....its just
>an awesome game...in my opinion that is
Reminds my of my story:
I started taking an interest in Traveller more than 12 years ago, about the
time MT appeared on the shelves in Europe, when a friend introduced me to
the German edition of CT. I was hooked by the endless possibilities (the
background wasn´t detailed very much back then). So i started rolling
characters and designing a universe.
Two months later when my friend came back from a shopping holiday in
London, and had brought back MT, i got truly hooked by the rich background,
the intrigue and chaotic developments of the Shattered Imperium. I think
that´s when my love for the Game truly caught fire. Today, i still am an
avid collector, trying to get as complete a collection as possible and
relishing new products, as they give me more insight and a fascinating read.
However, i have only rerely managed to actually PLAY Traveller in all this
time. Maybe 10 times at most. But that doesn´t really matter, because to me
Traveller is what I make of it.
(And maybe someday, I´ll finally get the chance to play of Referee in a
whole campaign)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:28:57 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1824
> On Behalf Of Brian Jenkins
>
> What is it about the game that attracts you and
> keeps you coming back for more. What is the allure that
> traveller has for you. Now I am serious about this. I really
> want to know. So if you can take a minute (or more) and tell me
> what it is about this 20yo+ Role Playing game that you love so
> much please do so. I am looking forward to your replies.
The Buying Strange New Worlds.
When I ran or played Traveller (I used MT with preference, after all it had a
skill system, and now I play GT), It was allways a Merchant Prince campaign. It
allowed extensive exploration, random violence and both physical and financial
risks. I never had access to the moduals (mainly the LBB 1-8 and MT box set), so
we became proficiant in reading UWP, or doing them up the night before. The
trade system was a breeze and while flawed, was fun to play.
TNE sickened me, while I like the rule system (So I liked 2300AD and Dark
Conspiracy, so sue me), the background was flawed and unrealistic, and who
really wanted to play a Star Viking. T4 was disliked for its poor editing and
proofing, so I never realy played (I did like the chargen though, more breadth
than MT and still generating characters with more than 4 skills).
Darryl
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:01:15 -0500
From: Joseph Coles
Subject: Re: Micah
I know I'm several days behind in eading the Digests, but I hope I'm not
too late.
>>At the moment I have a Scientist, a Merchant, a Marine, and a Rogue so I'm
>>kinda leaning toward a merchant game. To start I'm saying "the hell with
>>it" and making up as much as I can But I got a bunch of White wolf and
>>DND'er type gamers so they arn't really cutting me any slack.
>>
>>anyone know an easy way to keep track of details without a computer? All I
>>have is the schools and they frown on keeping things like this on them.
>>
>>Thanks all
>>
>>Micah
I'd suggest The Traveller Adventure (TTA) for a new GM looking to run a
merchant-type campaign. A moderately interesting storyling (with several
subplots), a ready made ship, a (somewhat) detailed subsector. The only
(semi) problem is that it's CT not MT. But I've run it as MT without any
undue difficulty.
Another GM suggestion (for any game - not just Traveller) is to have
several (at least a half dozen) "random" encounters that you can throw at
the characters as needed - perhaps they're getting bored, or perhaps
they've moved quickly and are approaching the end of what you've prepared
for the gaming session. Just make sure these encounters have the same
level of detail that a regular planned encounter would - so the players
can't tell the difference. Something else that always helps is props.
Perhaps Call of Cthulhu did this best (Chaosium used to include sample
matchbooks and business cards, for example). As an example, early in TTA,
the characters find a wallet on the ground (which contains some important
clues including a letter). Rather than just tell my players about the
wallet I had picked up an old wallet and prepared (by hand - this was long
before I owned a PC) fake ID cards as well as the letter. The effect when
I handed them the wallet was satsifying. Also early in the TTA, the
characters find an X-Boat message which I had typed out. AGain my goal was
to have something the players could pick up and look at rather than hear me
talk about.
Good Luck, and like everyone else says, have fun!
Joseph Coles
jcoles@nac.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:32:30 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Traveller Topic Posts
> On Behalf Of Cynthia Higginbotham
> Do I know you? We were playing those EXACT same games in my
> early years...
Ditto.
> Still stick with AD&D, RuneQuest, and Traveller.
> AD&D is still the best for a quick fantasy pick-up game,
Hmm, haven't played AD&D in years, tend to use Rolemaster for fantasy
(Satred with Arms Law & Spell Law way back when), but then that's because I
have two friends who like Table^H^H^H^H^HRolemaster for some weird reason
> And Runequest--I keep coming back to Glorantha.
> Where else can you play merchant trolls working for a talking catfish?
Or trollkin trying not get eaten ?
> Or Death-god worshipping ducks?
With great-swords !
> And it actually makes sense!
> (And one of these days we will finally climb Condor Crags...)
Once you've succeeded in that, try transporting some of those exploding
berries from Balazar back to civilization.
Frankie
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1826
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Traveller-digest Friday, January 28 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1827
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
History in the Third Imperium
Re: One Of Those Subjects We Don't Talk about
Vilani and Traveller Fonts
Re: Starmap for free
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: More on Aldeberan...
Re: Famous professors,student radicals, and the like (was Re: SEC : UNCLASSIFIED School attempt)
Re: Traveller creator is?
Re: Question on starship fuel
Re: House rules for CT ship battles (was Fuel question)
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: 2d Maps and jump space
Re: Vs: The d3 Question (was Re: Official Taskwar Thread)
Re: Why is Traveller so appealing?
Re: Question on starship fuel
Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Starmap for free
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
Re: H20 as Fuel
Re: H20
Swine and Villains
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:43:18 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: History in the Third Imperium
From: Ethan Henry
> Desperate attempt for an ObTrav: What the predominant mode of 3I
> historiography? Does Imperials view history predominantly as a
> military, social or economic flow of events? Are "mainstream"
> Imperial historians kind or cruel to the Imperium's own actions? For
> example, is the reign of the Barracks Emperors seen as a
> legitimate attempt to determine secession or as an ignoble farce,
> blight on the otherwise glorious line of rulers?
It really depends on how you're running your Imperium. For example, if
you're running the Imperium as a new Roman Empire, as was suggested a short
while back, then you should probably read through some histories from the
ancient world. In this sense, historians will be seen as little more than
chroniclers of important events, which will generally translate into wars
and the actions of "important" people.
In such an Imperium, I wouldn't be at all surprised if history books would
do little more than repetition of facts, or generally accepted lies. There
wouldn't be too much in the way of "theory" clouding the history books.
If you're running an Imperium which looks more like the modern world, than
anything and everything is up for grabs. If nothing else, history is
somewhat chaotic these days, at least in America. You have everything from
state-sponsored public education, which spouts lies and half truths in
support of an imagined status quo and also attempts to make history as
boring as possible to some really bizarre classes at some colleges which
attempt to rewrite history in support of their own agendas. Then you have
everything and everybody in between, media darlings like Ambrose who toe the
line between "popular" and "academic" histories, a thriving interest in
"armchair history" and so on.
What we have had in the U.S. recently was a sort of democratization of
history, with various groups trying to duck, weave and react to the changes
which are being made. On the other hand, in the last few years there's been
a shift toward history as an arm of the entertainment industry.
My own Traveller universe is sort of based on the world between the 18th
and 20th centuries. I tend to think that this was an extremely interesting
time for academia in general. On one hand, you had all sorts of new theories
popping up, and new ways of looking at the past. On the other hand, there
was still a strong tradition of "official" history. You also had the birth
of things like anthropology, modern archaeology, economic theory and stuff
like that which sweetened the pot a bit.
In my (extremely variant) Traveller setting, academics are just starting
to come to grips with the notion that the interstellar community is actually
a "whole", and not merely a group of disconnect solar systems. Theory is
becoming broader in scale and historians are starting to look at their job
differently.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:52:00 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: One Of Those Subjects We Don't Talk about
Peter Newman wrote:
> this is a slight paraphrase of the 12 steps of other
> programs, as found at:
> http://www.12stepmeetings.com/12step/12x12.htm
>
> [This humorous message is not intended to make light of
> the real problems that others may be struggling with.]
Pete here has just given us the basic tenets of Marcites a small
and vocal fringe cult of the rim.....
- --
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We have
to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door. Knowledge
isn't always a blessing;
sometimes, it's damnation.
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:47:06 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Vilani and Traveller Fonts
People were asking about the Vilani fonts: you should be able to get
hold of them (and other RPG/film fonts) for free at either:
http://www.unclebear.com/fonts/index.html
or
http://www.unclebear.com/rpg/fonts2.html
Hope this helps,
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:29:40 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
At 17:26 -0500 28/1/00, ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry) wrote:
>I hate to be a stellar snob but it wasn't much to my liking.
Fair enough ;-)
>The data appear only to use Gliese catalog data rather than include updates
>from the more recent Hipparcos mission. Also, the data appear to be in
>equitorial coordinates rather than galactic coordinates,
Works well with 2300 though ;-) Personally, I just posted the link
because I thought it may be of use to some people here.
>for those of you familiar with the CHview data it contains more of the
>Hipparcos catalog. i've downloaded it into an Excel spreadsheet and
>converted the coordinates to galactic.
CHview - that'd be a DOS thingie?
>If people are interested i'll make it available off-list. Do you think
>people on sfconsim-l or 2300ad would be interested?
Probably. If you wanted to make the spreadsheet downloadable at BITS
we can do that for you!
Cheers,
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:35:13 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
At 17:26 -0500 28/1/00, Ian Ferguson wrote:
>Cynthia Higginbotham writes:
> >Glenn Goffin said:
> >>also first played Aftermath, Bushido, Runequest, and of course
> >>D&D and AD&D at that time, but have spent almost no time on any
> >>of them since.
> >Do I know you? We were playing those EXACT same games in my
> >early years... Still stick with AD&D, RuneQuest, and Traveller.
> >AD&D is still the best for a quick fantasy pick-up game,
> There is a pattern here, I have always favoured Traveller,
> Aftermath, and Runequest. The Morrow Project and FASA's
> Star Trek TRPG are also up there, but AD&D has faded for me
> somewhat.
I have always favoured Traveller, Runequest, Call of Cthulhu and
Cyberpunk2020. It's the background that does it for me. I recently
indulged in the reprint of Pavis and Big Rubble because of this. I
haven't indulged in the basic rules for CT reprint because (1) I have
two copies already, (2) I am only missing Bk 7 and (3) I'm still
waiting for the last big Traveller supplement I ordered from the USA.
AD&D has faded for me, but I've recently become involved in a Ravenloft game.
The other systems I have significant chunks of are 2300AD, Faded Suns
and Elric!/Stormbringer.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:45:11 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
Via electronic medium on 1/21/00 4:18 AM, misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca
wrote:
> A friend of mine who bow-hunts in Newfoundland tells me has had good
> experience with bull moose who have hunted *BACK*... much to the
> consternation of the three lads with the longbows...
I've even heard of white-tail and mule deer turning the tables. Much rarer
than moose I would assume, as they are much more "flighty", and not as big a
threat, but hunter's and tourists have been put in the hospital. I don't
know of any deer killing a human though.
As far as intelligence in herbivores go, nobody has mentioned swine. Are
they omnivores? I know they can and will eat nearly anything, but I thought
they were technically an herbivore. They are very intelligent. Of course
their hooves make tool use problematic. ;)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:49:27 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
Via electronic medium on 1/21/00 6:09 AM, jenry023@student.liu.se wrote:
> Small birds (the size that would fit in your hand) have (if my sources
> are correct) been known to use tools, small branches, to make holes in
> paper/plastic coverings of milk bottles, in order to reach the milk
> inside.
>
> Can anyone confirm (or not, as it might be) this?
Not exactly, but I know some birds actually weave their nests, and that
seems to me to be pretty complicated. But then we are talking about single
refined abilities.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:59:11 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: More on Aldeberan...
Via electronic medium on 1/21/00 9:30 AM, Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us wrote:
> Check out the link for the Solomani in Aldeberan:
> http://users.chello.no/mroger/HIWG/archive.html
>
> Enjoy,
> Jason
Well, /that/ one worked, but on further browsing I got:
The requested URL /mroger/Archive/HIWG-docs/Hivermap.gif was not found on
this server.
I love maps, I want it! ;) Is it just misplaced?
BTW, very nice spinning logo.
BZA, not Chris (I was interested too!)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:10:47 -0500
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)"
Subject: Re: Famous professors,student radicals, and the like (was Re: SEC : UNCLASSIFIED School attempt)
I am still around. I just don't talk much on the TML. My web site is at:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/5776/traveller.html It can also be
found on the Traveller and Gearhead webrings.
Greg Svenson
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:17:29 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: Re: Traveller creator is?
> Several of us contributed, but Marc came up with the original game concept
> and most of the basic mechanics.
>
> The only dedication I remember in the LBB is to Marc's wife. Marc himself
> served in the US Army (in Vietnam among other places).
>
> Perhaps if you could provide the exact passage you are thinking of?
>
> LKW
Ah...well...if I could do that then I wouldn't need someone to remind me of
how much my brain leaks out my ear :)
Someone else mentioned a dedication to a naval person in I think High Guard,
maybe that was what I was thinking of, although they didn't tell me the
text, so I can't be sure.
Maybe I should just try and e-mail Marc with this. I'd hate to bug the guy
tho'...I kind of want him chained to a desk working hard at T5....:) no
interruptions for silly questions or anything :)
Giuseppe
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:26:57 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:04:43 -0800
> From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
> Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
>
> From: Roger Barr
> > I have seen references in the TML about l-hyd explosions upon a fuel
> storage
> > breach.
> >
> > Which is canon? Water or L-Hyd?
>
> LHyd. And in spite of what some have said, there is almost
> no chance of it exploding. Pure hydrogen will not burn
> without an oxidant.
> - --
> Jason
Err...see I was thinking about a ship getting hit with a laser whilst within
an atmosphere...also, I'm not sure as to the possibility of this, but in the
vacuum of space, what exactly would the effect of a one foot wide laser beam
flying through a L-Hyd tank be? I sincerely hope it wouldn't be the creation
of a very small and very temporary mini-sun, but could it be just that?
Any astrophysicists out there?
Giuseppe
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:46:53 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: Re: House rules for CT ship battles (was Fuel question)
> >Anyone have any house rules for appending armour to classic
> >traveller ? I think I'll need it a lot more!
>
>
> I use a tweeked version of LBB2 combat which includes a
> table that indicates how much to reduce damage, depending
> on the weapon, armour value, and a roll on 2D. For the
> basic starship laser, an armour value of 1 will stop all
> damage on a roll of 10+, and each level of armour reduces
> that by 1 (9+ for AV 2, 8+ for AV 3, etc.).
THANKS! Sounds neat.
> >(a special alloy I had to devise as a plot device to explain how
> >the ships take damage merely by a reduction of HP until they
> >reach zero when they blow up into dust clouds).
>
> It is very difficult IMTU to blow up a starship, but I do
> have a subtable for "Hull" hits that allows, among other
> things, damage to the main structural members of the vessel.
> Too much damage to these may result in the ship breaking up
> under acceleration.
I agree with you, but Starsparc was designed to have a massive space battle
(kind of like the robotech ones you saw in the TV cartoon versions, not the
game system) in a few minutes. The little fighters just vapourise. It makes
no sense in a semi-realistic science setting...unless...you have callonium
armour (See the thing with this 'armour' is that all energy is
absorbed/redirected from the hull to the ship's capacitors (part of the
black-box engines of all starships in Starspark) these soak up energy in
whatever form, however despite their amazing ability to do this (High
TL=magic type of explanation) they tend to overload if they are not given
enough time to discharge in a safe manner and overloading causes..you
guessed it: Critical explosions of ridiculously huge dimensions)
> >Survivability of PCs that get into space combats would lower
> >drammatically though
>
>
> I didn't like the lack of risk to the PCs personal safety
> in starship combat, so the aforementioned Hull hit subtable
> allows damage to specific areas of the ship. If anyone is
> in the area hit, they must roll to avoid taking damage from
> flying debris.
>
> Peez
Oh I agree...many PCs perish in my space battles, but making space combat
like it is in starspark would drive most players phobic about having ANY
space encounters whatsoever.
G.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:46:34 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
I have to agree you. The game was(still is, I loved the verbage in TNE
where the editors stated that players could ignore Strephon's
assassination and virus in their campaigns if they wanted) so freeform,
not frozen in format like D&D got. I also liked the fact you didn't
have to anal-rentative about the science involved in your storyline.
Yeah, the computers are dated and there were little sensor rules, but a
good GM can get past that. It's still fun.
darkhstarr
"Swordy (Colin Michael)" wrote:
>
> I liked the fact that it came *without* a background. In 1979 I was fifteen
> and a member of the Sci-Fi Book Club, reading everything I could get my
> hands on. When I found out that I could play the story lines that I was
> reading, I was hooked. Foundation, Stainless Steel Rat, Retief, Space
> Viking, Paratime Police, Ringworld, Gateway... Any story, any time. Not to
> mention the fact that the chargen system was a game in itself. Hundreds of
> hours of solo play and planning. Easily scalable. There are so many
> things. Could even be the little black box and books. :-)
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Colin Michael, WebDev
> www.downport.com
> The Traveller Domain
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:57:08 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: Re: 2d Maps and jump space
> Just to add a little bit flavour and athmosphere, I 've found the
> following (my original idea was improved with the help of Jeff Zeitlin and
> Marc Miller):
> What do you think?
Brilliant!
> For Iridium Throne and glory!
> ingo heinscher ;-)
>
> Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
> ... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist IMO. Sogar Physik.
>
> Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net
G.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:55:25 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Vs: The d3 Question (was Re: Official Taskwar Thread)
Via electronic medium on 1/22/00 1:27 PM, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>> Don't exist? How come I have 2 in my dice collection???
>
> Congratulations! Where did you buy them? I've *made* some, but
> never found any to purchase.
My FLGS in Fresno (The Game Preserve) had them once when I was in there. I
should have bought them, but I was getting GT: First In and Far Trader and
was nearly tapped out. Had to eat. I've seen them elsewhere, maybe you can
get them on the net. Is Chessex on-line? I've also seen blanks that you
could fill in. Only sixers though, a blank ico or dody would be really cool.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:59:14 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Why is Traveller so appealing?
Well, I have to admit Star Wars always keeps creeping into my Traveller
campaigns along with Andre Norton, Poul Anderson, etal. Of course in my
game Vader became the head of IBIS (Imperial Bureau of Investigative
Services-I added psionics to IBIS) and one of the good guys (sort of, I
have a twisted sense of humor).
darkhstarr
Roger Barr wrote:
>
> Well, I can tell you that I about 13 when Star Wars came out. I was
> enthralled with the entire concept: A huge evil empire and the fact that a
> farm boy and a smuggler/tramp freighter pilot could play such a pivotal role
> in fighting tyranny. I was in love with science-fiction/science-fantasy in
> serious way.
>
> I got the Traveller rules within a year or so of that experience.
>
> I guess I never grew out of that first love...
>
> Roger Barr
> travelerGM@aol.com
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:35:58 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
At 4:00 AM -0800 1/28/2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>Hydrogen *gas* is pretty insidious. LH2 isn't all that bad.
>
>But hydrogen liquifies at about -253 C (20 K). That's *damn* cold. Room
>temp is around 300 K. Temp differences are logaritmic. So the diff
>between 20 K and 300 K is the "same" as the diff between 300 K and 4500
>K!
I'm not sure how you mean this as heat transfer rates (important for
cooling and insulation) are all based on the difference in temperature
and don't depend on absolute temperature at all... in otherwords, you'll
lose the same amount of heat through a wall no matter whether it's 70
degrees inside and 60 outside or 30 inside and 20 outside. This applies
to onduction and convection. Radiant heat transfer is based on the
difference of the fourth powers of the temperatures so does depend on
absolute temperature.
A L-Hyd tank is probably cooled and not under pressure so the gas
will probably flow out in vacuum unless there's a heat source nearby
and the hole is in the light, in which case it would probably
vaporize as it hit the hole and flow out faster. The laser will
probably cause a crater in the wall of the tank but would probably
not penetrate very far. If you did shoot a laser into a tank,
you would cause the hydrogen to vaporize and increase the pressure,
but I have no idea how much.
A pressurized L-Hyd tank would probably blow out if you punched a
hole in it as you weaken the structure and start a high speed jet
of hydrogen shooting out, taking more of the edge of the hole with
it. The only problem with this is that an enormous high-pressure
L-Hyd tank would have to have incredibly thick walls and would be
incredibly heavy and not hold nearly as much volume as it took up.
Of cours, starship tanks could be made up of a large number of
manifolded pressure vessels, long cylinders, with insulation between
for safety and strength.
Bolie IV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:58:12 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Traveller Topic Posts
Richard Martin puts out on the ether:
>Luther Martin wrote:
>> Hey, here's an idea. A potential use for Cuba. A living history theme park.
>> "Come see real live socialists as they drive their bicycles to work." We
>Hmm.. sounds like less air pollution and good exercise. Maybe if a few
>more people in LA, NY, etc would ride bicyvles they might pollute less
>than the reincarnated dinosaurs called "SUVs." that re populating the
>freeways.
Not from the Cuban's point of view...they *want* SUVs & US Dollars.
Witness the current dual economy in Cuba. (Dollars/Pesos).
I'll bet the North Koreans want food more than the Cubans want the SUVs.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
travhead.geo@yahoo.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ Opinions Mine!
"In 1991, [Vice President] Gore cited Bush's China policy as a reason he
should be defeated for reelection, charging Bush sent his emissaries to
toast the butchers of Tiananmen Square.'"
Deborah Orin in the New York Post, March 26, 1997, the day after Gore
drank champagne with Chinese Premier Li Peng, who helped plan the
Tiananmen massacre
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:51:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
In mail you write:
> What I am looking for is carthesian coordinates (XYZ) for the stars in
> the near-Sol region of space. If you have those built from a good
> database, then I am very interested indeed.
Well, you need to keep in mind that the actual *measurements* are in
spherical co-ordinates, and radius value is a *lot* more uncertain that
the two angle measurements. This means that the errors in XYZ
co-ordinates are kinda weird.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:05:55 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>> Hey, here's an idea. A potential use for Cuba. A living history theme park.
>> "Come see real live socialists as they drive their bicycles to work." We
>> could take groups of school-aged kids there on field trips. We could do the
>> same for North Korea, but you would have to bring your own food.
>
>At the risk of starting a big flame war here, I find your attitude
>really offensive.
>
>You want to see a big socialist theme park? It's called "Canada" and the
>UN consistently rates it as a pretty decent place to live. Bring your own
>parka though.
As a Canadian, I find your comments to be borderline offensive -- Canada
is not a socialist country, not when you compare it to real socialist
countries like Denmark and Sweden. And thank goodness for that -- the
closer we get to socialism, the worse we become. I am thankful that I
live in a province whose government (and populace) recognize socialism
for what it is -- a system that, like many parasites, ultimately kills
its host. Cuba's economic difficulty is a great example of this.
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:13:10 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
Via electronic medium on 1/23/00 8:29 PM, aramis@gci.net wrote:
> IMTU, however, you can get a variety of
> interfaces for just about any computer of TL8+. TUI, GUI, 3DUI, ATUI,
> TTUI...
Text User Interface
Graphical User Interface
3 Dimensional User Interface
Audible Text User Interface
I'm right so far, eh? But TTUI has me stumped.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:20:27 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re: H20 as Fuel
Anthony Jackson quoth me thusly, and then adds
>William F. Hostman writes:
>> So, if you want a 100Td, J2 you need purification capable of 15% (under MT,
>> remember? MT has lower JFuel costs) of hull or 15Td in 20 minutes. That's
>> 120Td per 6 hours, or 162kl (13.5 kl to the MT Td) per 6 hours.
>Um...15 tD/20 minutes = 270 Td per 6 hours. 270 Td/6 hours = 3645 kl/6 hours.
>> using the tl 15 fpp:
>> Power Vol Wt
>> 0.005 0.2 0.4 Cr150
>> x162 x162 x162 x162
>> ===============================================================
>> 0.81MW 32.4kl 64.8 Cr24300
> 18.225MW 729kl (54TD) 1458T Cr546,750
>
>The power plant slice for that is fairly negligible, but adding 54 tD of
>equipment to replace 7.5 tD of fuel tankage is not exactly efficient.
>
Where the [delete expletive] are you getting THOSE figures?
Under MT, fuel purification is pretty effective. Your additional line of
data makes no sense... I'd already caried out the math needed. (Besides,
only GT uses the slice method, and you're using metric which GT doesn't
do). The problems is that the 9. something Td MASSES around 76Tm. The
additional 65Tm of machinery is no problem; the reduced fuel space will
more than cover it. The 0.81 MW requirement is negligable (Maybe a cubic
meter, not even 1/3rd that at TL 15).
Even at lower TL's the MT FPP's are extremely efficient; at TL 12, the
volume doubles (both per unit of processing and minimum volume), the price
is the same, the mass also doubles, and the power requirement increases by
a factor of 1.2.
FF&S-1 uses the exact same chart for FPP's.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:39:38 -0800
From: "Bruce Macintosh"
Subject: Re: H20
>Jump Fuel
>Need to be able to purify in 20 minutes or less, assuming the rub from HG
>that you have to burn the fuel in one turn to jump. Or, 18x the jump fuel
>per 6 hours.
The most effective option is to use the water fuel for a second jump, so
that you can purify it at your leisure aftter the first jump. Ships designed
this
way can manage 2xjump 5 on internal fuel...
Water is heavy, but the penalty is only significant for military ships that
want high G.
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:56:07 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Swine and Villains
On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:45:11 -0800, "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
wrote:
>As far as intelligence in herbivores go, nobody has mentioned swine. Are
>they omnivores? I know they can and will eat nearly anything, but I thought
>they were technically an herbivore. They are very intelligent. Of course
>their hooves make tool use problematic. ;)
>
From my own observations I would call them omnivores.
If you read _Hannibal_ by Thomas Harris your image of our porcine
friends may change forever. This novel takes place several years after
_Silence of the Lambs_ and continues the saga of Hannibal Lector.
Anyone looking for an evil villain need look no further than the
character Mason in this book. He was one of Lector's early victims who
survived. He was obscenely wealthy, deranged, and paralyzed. He
planned to use specially bred pig in his revenge against Dr. Lector.
Don't read this just before you go to bed!
I seem to have drifted. Time to change the subject line! ;-)
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get
used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1827
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Traveller-digest Saturday, January 29 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1828
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: new trav player needs...
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Swine and Villains
Socialism and the TML
Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re Fuel Hits [long]
Re Computer Interfaces
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1824
Re: House rules for CT ship battles (was Fuel question)
TML People
Chris Dixon
Re: Starmap for free
Re: Starmap for free
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
[BITS] Website Update 29/1/2000
Re: The d3 Question
Re: Question on starship fuel
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:05:51 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: new trav player needs...
Via electronic medium on 1/24/00 6:08 AM, travelergm@hotmail.com wrote:
> A pack of bubblegum, a FGMP-15, and a really good pair of Mirrorshades?
>
Evil grin indeed, you didn't even drop a link to Ditzie. Poor newbie is
probably still scratching his head. Could someone with the link handy clue
the guy in?
My .02 Cr on getting deeper into Traveller: Focus on a single sector or
subsector and read all you can. Repeatedly. You need a stage for your drama,
and in Traveller that stage is (usually) space. Familiarity with the stage
will keep you from getting bogged down by looking up stuff. The Spinward
Marches are a great starter, and have (has?) a huge variety of potential
settings from backwater boondock worlds to Megapopulation centers of
civilization; compare Whanga to Glisten for instance. Plus with multiple
political entities you can play nearly any type of Sci-Fi campaign
imaginable. OK, that's hyperbole, but not by much. And there is a wealth of
resources on it. And get the 101 books from bits, as many as interest you
and you can afford, they are way cool. Lifeforms is my fave, YMMV.
And when in doubt, wing it!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:31:20 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
In a message dated 1/27/00 6:43:34 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
Brian.Jenkins@grpwise1.westek.com writes:
<< So if you can take a minute (or more) and tell me what it is about this
20yo+ Role Playing game that you love so much please do so. I am looking
forward to your replies. >>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:37:11 -0600
From: William Barnett-Lewis
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
on 1/28/00 10:57 PM, SD Mooney said
> I recently
> indulged in the reprint of Pavis and Big Rubble because of this.
Ain't it exquisite? I've been telling people that if you only want to buy
one Glorantha book, that is the one to get. I wish I were half so
creative...
William
- --
Live without fear; your Creator loves you | William Barnett-Lewis
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com
road and may God's blessing be with |
you always. |
St. Claire |
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:49:33 -0600
From: William Barnett-Lewis
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
on 1/28/00 10:57 PM, Traveller-digest at
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com wrote:
> Cuba's economic difficulty is a great example of this.
Is only a mirror of US attempts to strangle it?
There is far more to socialism than the bankrupt bast%@*ds of Moscow or
Washington... I will not say anything more on this. If you wish to have a
basic idea of what might be, read any book by Michael Harrington...
Or check out http://www.dsausa.org if you care to read what the enemy's
beliefs really are... :>
William
- --
Live without fear; your Creator loves you | William Barnett-Lewis
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com
road and may God's blessing be with |
you always. |
St. Claire |
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:46:46 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
From: Pete
> Anyone looking for an evil villain need look no further than
> the character Mason in this book. He was one of Lector's early
> victims who survived. He was obscenely wealthy, deranged, and
> paralyzed.
Yes, a modified version of Mason Verger would make a very good villain in a
Trav campaign. He would make an excellent degenerate and depraved noble, and
he would feel right at home in a "Dark Imperium"-style setting.
A variant of Lecter himself would make an excellent villain as well. A
single Lecter, with his incredible mental abilities and vast range of skills
would be more than a match for most parties. Lecter isn't the kind of guy
I'd like to be stuck in Jump for a week with.
The secret serial killer network which serves as something of a backdrop,
specifically in Red Dragon and to a lesser extent in Silence of the Lambs
could be very interesting as well. Imagine the sheer horror which the PCs
might be faced with if they stumbled on a key to interpret just one small
part of the secret language used. This would be especially shocking when put
into the proper perspective. There is a hell of a lot of information packed
in each individual Xboat, and so many of them wind their way through the
Imperium...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:14:37 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
Subject: Socialism and the TML
Please can we nip this one in the bud, pretty please.
Andrew etc
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/
"What do you expect from a species who's females are
always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:25:32 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>From: Glenn St-Germain
>Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
...
>its host. Cuba's economic difficulty is a great example of this.
Interesting. I'd have put Cuba's plight down largely to 30-40
years of economic warfare by the U.S. and its' client states.
I wonder - if the Islands were to suddenly develop strong Solomani
leanings*, they might find out what Imperial displeasure might start
out as (we sure know where it ends...), and the Sphere wouldn't be at
all well situated to send them aid.
*here's an idea that might appeal to both conspiracy freaks and the
Solomani sympathizers alike - have a graduate or "finishing" school
in the Islands becoming popular with the Solomani elites of the Sphere.
Why? Because their Solomani racial purity credentials are impeccable -
they've only had (very limited) contact with the mongrels of the 3I for
most of a century, and having had stellar TL meds from the start they
likely know everyones genetics very accurately. So for the real racial
purity freaks it's the ideal place to pick up a trophy spouse... :)
And the loonies can consider just how much any conspiracies on the
original colony ships know, as they won't have lost anything during the
Long Night - having slept through it :>
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:08:49 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Fuel Hits [long]
>Err...see I was thinking about a ship getting hit with a laser whilst within
>an atmosphere...also, I'm not sure as to the possibility of this, but in the
>vacuum of space, what exactly would the effect of a one foot wide laser beam
>flying through a L-Hyd tank be? I sincerely hope it wouldn't be the creation
>of a very small and very temporary mini-sun, but could it be just that?
>Any astrophysicists out there?
>Giuseppe
>
Prolly not much. To get fusion requires two factors: Temperature and
pressure; for hydrogen the temps are "Fairly low" at the kinds of pressures
that make BD fail... several thousand (2-3, IIRC) decrees centigrade, and
pressures in the high double digits in atmospheres, maybe triple digits;
the two can be flexed about, but you need a compressed plasma state, IIUC.
You won't generate those kinds of pressures AND temperatures with even a
close range weapon hit.[1]
However, if you make a 1m hole into the fuel tankage, you will get some
explosive venting due to rapid thermal expansion near the initial breach,
plus the natural vacuum induced gassification of L-Hyd. So what you get is
the holed compartment quickly produces a low thrust, prolly having an exit
speed measured in maybe a few tens of meters per second. You'll get a jolt,
a shudder, if you will, from the inital "Pop" through the hole (plus the
pop from the hole being made, in most cases [2]), and then a gentle but
steady and decreasing thrust while the fuel compartment evaporates the LHyd
through the hole.
If, however, you are in an atmosphere when hit by the same laser energies,
you will have a different reaction with the hydrogen. If the atmosphere has
the proper ammounts of oxygen, the molten metal from the detonation will
probably be hot enough to ignite the initial heated gaseous hydrogen burst;
if it does, you get a flare, not an explosion. A really HOT flare, which
may well expand and round out said hole, and burn away surface features,
etc. Provided you are going slow enough for the flame to keep up, you have
a flare; too fast, and you get an FAE behind you, but you'll be much less
hurt by it. If you're going way to fast, you won't have particularly
flammable concentrations. [3]
(Explosions come from internal leakages and ruptures, combined with sparks.
A massive rupture is as likely to be too cold to explode.)
In any case, if you have continued energy in, you get much faster
vaproization and loss of fuel.
[1] More than likely, you won't get a whole lot of direct pentration;
rather you're likely to cause thermal stresses, and have parts pop and
"scab" off on the inner side. So you'll have thermal heating by conduction;
if rapid enough, and there is enough of a heat sink, you may crack quite
nicely, and shatter. If you have Pyrex you can throw away, a simple (and
mildly dangerous) experiment is to freeze a pyrex dish, then set it
straight from the freezer onto a red hot electric stove burner... the
ensuing shattering is caused by uneven and rapid thermal expansion. For
metals and composites, the engery needs are much higher, but the same
principles apply.
[2] if the hit actually penetrates fully, or shatters from thermally
induced expansion stresses, it will make a neat "Crack" or "Boom". If it
truly dissassociates the hull metal, it will actually be somewhat less
noisy... but that takes MONDO ammounts of energy. (Take the metal rapidly
to the temp of gassification from a solid state.... So you have the
specific heat times the quantity of(( difference between extant temp and
vaporization point (both in degrees)) plus Specific heat of liquification
(in degrees) plus specific heat of vaproization (in degrees)) to get the
calories required. I don't remember the conversion from calories to
joules... but you have to put that much energy in before conduction and
(internal to hull) convection and surface vaproization can carry it away.
In short, combat lasers are more likely to cause big spiderweb fracturing
and craters than neat round holes, except when very well focused and close
in.
[3] Remember the fire-triangle:you need fuel, oxidant, and temperature in
ballance to have fire or explosion. Pressure helps to maintain temperature.
If you go to fast, you don't have enough fuel. If not going fast enough,
you just get a fire, as only the skin of the LHyd flow can burn, and most
of that will be the gas vaproizing off. If you are in too cold a thermal
regime (IE, you are going slow enough to not have significant airflow and
fire-surface-area, the LHyd will be cold enough to damp fires. In any case,
you need an oxidant. Explosions are a very narrow section fo the fire
triangle, and are really a fast moving wave of fire. Detonations, however
are when lots of fuel-oxidant mixture oxidizes through a pressure wave
effect. LHyd is not going to detonate except in unusual circumstances. And
hydrogen does not burn hot enough to spark fusion.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:16:32 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Computer Interfaces
>Via electronic medium on 1/23/00 8:29 PM, aramis@gci.net wrote:
>
>> IMTU, however, you can get a variety of
>> interfaces for just about any computer of TL8+. TUI, GUI, 3DUI, ATUI,
>> TTUI...
>
>Text User Interface
>Graphical User Interface
>3 Dimensional User Interface
>Audible Text User Interface
>
>I'm right so far, eh? But TTUI has me stumped.
Tactile Text User Interface. AKA Braile Interface. Many blind individuals
type quite well, and read as fast with fingers as most junior high school
kids with eyes, if not faster. The few blind individuals I've known much
prefer to read braile than to have things read by voice. I also include it
in traveller since one of my homegrown minor races doesn't see with light
(They are totally blind, but have echolocation sonar...) and thus CRT's and
LCD's are blank to them; I assume holograms would be as well.But I also
assume some tactile generation with holo-linked panels... generated by
micro-repulsors. So braile would be easy for these to do.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:26:16 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
> I've even heard of white-tail and mule deer turning the tables. Much rarer
> than moose I would assume, as they are much more "flighty", and not as big
> a threat, but hunter's and tourists have been put in the hospital. I don't
> know of any deer killing a human though.
It has happened, and still does from time to time. Usually during the
roar when the stags are feeling aggressive. A big red stag weighs
more than a man, and their antlers are quite sharp.
> As far as intelligence in herbivores go, nobody has mentioned swine. Are
> they omnivores? I know they can and will eat nearly anything, but I
> thought they were technically an herbivore. They are very intelligent. Of
> course their hooves make tool use problematic. ;)
Pig, both domestic and wild are opportunistic omnivores. Anyone
who thinks they're a herbivore can come and watch my old man's
fight over bits of dead chicken. Fortunately they don't seemn to
equate the live chooks with the corpses, otherwise my mum would
have a lot less chickens.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:26:16 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
On 29 Jan 00, at 0:35, SD Mooney wrote:
> The other systems I have significant chunks of are 2300AD, Faded Suns and
> Elric!/Stormbringer.
Ah, 2300AD. AFAIK I'm only missing the 2300AD version of the rules
(I've got the Traveller:2300 rules, with the SK-19 and the weird armour
values) and the cyberpunk adventures.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:26:16 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1824
On 29 Jan 00, at 8:28, dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au wrote:
> TNE sickened me, while I like the rule system (So I liked 2300AD and Dark
> Conspiracy, so sue me), the background was flawed and unrealistic, and who
> really wanted to play a Star Viking. T4 was disliked for its poor editing
> and proofing, so I never realy played (I did like the chargen though, more
> breadth than MT and still generating characters with more than 4 skills).
Why is it that everyone seems to think 2300AD had the same rules
set as TNE? It doesn't, it has it's own rules which are different from
everything else's. What it does have is TW2000 as background
history, and TW2000 2nd ed had a (D10) version of the house rules.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 05:03:34 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: House rules for CT ship battles (was Fuel question)
I tend to give certain weapons penetration factors (inspired by the CT
Classic Traveller armour factors) for space combat. I later carried
over the idea to land and grav combat. If a weapon couldn't penetrate
on the first shot, you could roll to hit the same spot again (select
programs or skills acting as modifiers) at a -2 modifier for difficulty.
Damage rolled against the ship hit location tables from CT. I also
modified the same table to create a vehicle hit location table.
darkhstarr
Giuseppe wrote:
>
> > >Anyone have any house rules for appending armour to classic
> > >traveller ? I think I'll need it a lot more!
> >
> >
> > I use a tweeked version of LBB2 combat which includes a
> > table that indicates how much to reduce damage, depending
> > on the weapon, armour value, and a roll on 2D. For the
> > basic starship laser, an armour value of 1 will stop all
> > damage on a roll of 10+, and each level of armour reduces
> > that by 1 (9+ for AV 2, 8+ for AV 3, etc.).
>
> THANKS! Sounds neat.
>
> > >(a special alloy I had to devise as a plot device to explain how
> > >the ships take damage merely by a reduction of HP until they
> > >reach zero when they blow up into dust clouds).
> >
> > It is very difficult IMTU to blow up a starship, but I do
> > have a subtable for "Hull" hits that allows, among other
> > things, damage to the main structural members of the vessel.
> > Too much damage to these may result in the ship breaking up
> > under acceleration.
>
> I agree with you, but Starsparc was designed to have a massive space battle
> (kind of like the robotech ones you saw in the TV cartoon versions, not the
> game system) in a few minutes. The little fighters just vapourise. It makes
> no sense in a semi-realistic science setting...unless...you have callonium
> armour (See the thing with this 'armour' is that all energy is
> absorbed/redirected from the hull to the ship's capacitors (part of the
> black-box engines of all starships in Starspark) these soak up energy in
> whatever form, however despite their amazing ability to do this (High
> TL=magic type of explanation) they tend to overload if they are not given
> enough time to discharge in a safe manner and overloading causes..you
> guessed it: Critical explosions of ridiculously huge dimensions)
>
> > >Survivability of PCs that get into space combats would lower
> > >drammatically though
> >
> >
> > I didn't like the lack of risk to the PCs personal safety
> > in starship combat, so the aforementioned Hull hit subtable
> > allows damage to specific areas of the ship. If anyone is
> > in the area hit, they must roll to avoid taking damage from
> > flying debris.
> >
> > Peez
>
> Oh I agree...many PCs perish in my space battles, but making space combat
> like it is in starspark would drive most players phobic about having ANY
> space encounters whatsoever.
>
> G.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:36:35 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: TML People
Is there a William H. Keith jr. on this list?
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:47:05 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
Subject: Chris Dixon
Is Chris Dixon still here? I tried to send you some more information
regarding my Prometheus Rising work a few days ago and it just
returned to me bounced.
Andrew etc
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/
"What do you expect from a species who's females are
always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:55:25 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
Eric Henry wrote:
> Galactic coordinates use the plane of the galaxy rather than the
> plane of Earth's equator.
>
> It's just a matter of taste that i prefer galactic.
Ah... I understand... and I also see the advantages of galactic
coordinates.
So, if you have a file using galactic carthesian coordinates for lots of
stars near Sol, would you mind sharing it with the rest of us?
If webspace is a problem, e-mail the file to me and I'll put it on my
page. I am sure Downport would put it up as well.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:03:03 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Well, you need to keep in mind that the actual *measurements* are in
> spherical co-ordinates, and radius value is a *lot* more uncertain
> that the two angle measurements. This means that the errors in XYZ
> co-ordinates are kinda weird.
For my purposes that doesn't really matter, and I guess that this would
be the same for most referees out there. I am just going to use one
value, and not care about the error (ie for a coordinate of A+-B, I will
only use A).
So, what format is your data stored in, and how are coordinates listed?
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 07:50:50 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
On 01/29/2000 03:25, Steven Hudson wrote:
>> From: Glenn St-Germain
>> Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
> ....
>> its host. Cuba's economic difficulty is a great example of this.
>
> Interesting. I'd have put Cuba's plight down largely to 30-40
> years of economic warfare by the U.S. and its' client states.
>
I don't disagree totally, but I will say that the USA's economic embargo has
played a major role in Cuba's economic shambles, as did the departure of the
Soviet dole. But the time has come to do to Cuba what we did to the Soviet
Union. Even the Kremlin relented when we began to engage the Russian people
themselves. I think that's where Canada can lend a hand in helping us deal
with the Cuban people.
Castro is, at least, in the age bracket when all the Old Guard of the Soviet
leadership began to (as Reagan put it) dropped like flies. Brezhnev was 75
in '82, Andropov 69 in '84 and Chernenko 73 in '85. The Old Man with the
Beard is the only guy holding this all together, and when he dies, that's
when Cuba will be free again. So we need to get ready.
>
> I wonder - if the Islands were to suddenly develop strong Solomani
> leanings*, they might find out what Imperial displeasure might start
> out as (we sure know where it ends...), and the Sphere wouldn't be at
> all well situated to send them aid.
>
> *here's an idea that might appeal to both conspiracy freaks and the
> Solomani sympathizers alike - have a graduate or "finishing" school
> in the Islands becoming popular with the Solomani elites of the Sphere.
> Why? Because their Solomani racial purity credentials are impeccable -
> they've only had (very limited) contact with the mongrels of the 3I for
> most of a century, and having had stellar TL meds from the start they
> likely know everyones genetics very accurately. So for the real racial
> purity freaks it's the ideal place to pick up a trophy spouse... :)
>
> And the loonies can consider just how much any conspiracies on the
> original colony ships know, as they won't have lost anything during the
> Long Night - having slept through it :>
Want some ganja mon? ;) ;)
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
CASTRO LOOKALIKE: "If this A&C Grenadier have a taste of Havana....my
minister of cigars...will eat it."
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:16:52 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
- -----Original Message-----
From: Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 29 January 2000 04:19
Subject: Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
>Via electronic medium on 1/23/00 8:29 PM, aramis@gci.net wrote:
>
>> IMTU, however, you can get a variety of
>> interfaces for just about any computer of TL8+. TUI, GUI, 3DUI, ATUI,
>> TTUI...
>
>Text User Interface
>Graphical User Interface
>3 Dimensional User Interface
>Audible Text User Interface
>
>I'm right so far, eh? But TTUI has me stumped.
>
Hmm, perhaps "Touchable" Text User Interface, eg Braille Keyboards and
output...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:38:12 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: [BITS] Website Update 29/1/2000
BITS - British Isles Traveller Support
http://www.bits.org.uk/
Departures and Arrivals.
- ------------------------------
Well, later than planned, the website has had a January 2000 update
which can be summarised as follows:
* OUT - The Millennium Freebie Adventure, 'White Dwarf'. This dollop
of humour and fun has now been taken down, and hidden away.
* IN - RolePlaying Space Combat System V0.90
* IN - QSDS v1.5.1 - Quick Ship Design System
Both of the new additions have been available previously, but have
become increasingly hard to find as the websites with them have
disappeared or removed them. Their authors have kindly allowed BITS
to host them.
RPSCS v0.90 is a space combat system to replace the rules in the T4
book, aimed at the character level rather than the larger scale
battles that MayDay M4.1 and others have aimed it. Written by a group
of TML luminaries, some sadly departed from the list now (Joe &
Carole Walsh, Eris 'the Heretic' Reddoch, Allen Shock and Guy
'Wildstar' Garnett), it is a good addition to any referee's tool box.
QSDS v1.5.1 appears to resolve the fact that BITS now have two combat
systems using T4 designed ships but no construction guidance. This is
the latest version of the QSDS rules from the T4 rulebook,
incorporating all known errata. These were previously available as
v1.5, and the incremental point means that the HEPLAR fuel
consumption mistake has been fixed. Written by Guy 'Wildstar'
Garnett, one of the Fire, Fusion and Steel 2 co-authors.
Enjoy
Dom (BITS Webmaster)
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------
BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.
http://www.bits.org.uk/ mailto:bits@bits.org.uk
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.
BITS and CORE are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.
All rights reserved.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:02:59 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: The d3 Question
Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" wrote
> >> Don't exist? How come I have 2 in my dice collection???
> eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> > Congratulations! Where did you buy them? I've *made* some, but
> > never found any to purchase.
> My FLGS in Fresno (The Game Preserve) had them once when I was in there. I
> should have bought them, but I was getting GT: First In and Far Trader and
> was nearly tapped out. Had to eat. I've seen them elsewhere, maybe you can
> get them on the net. Is Chessex on-line? I've also seen blanks that you
> could fill in. Only sixers though, a blank ico or dody would be really cool.
Yes Chessex is on line at www.chessex.com
but I could not find 3 sided dice in a cursory search
there. IIRC Chessex makes (or made) 3 sided dice in 16mm,
opaque, numbered, square cornered, round edged in six or
seven colors. They retail for about $0.40 each
The Armory used to make both 3 sided dice in 16mm, opaque,
numbered square cornered, square edged in white only, and
2 siders (1,1,1,2,2,2) as well (for $1.00 each) but now that
Armoury and Chessex have merged I'm not sure if this
variety is still made. No big loss on the 3 siders since
the Chessex variety is better, cheaper, & prettier but
it'd be a same to loose a good source of 2 sided dice.
[Yes I know you could use a coin but it's just not the same
as rolling a die.]
AFAIK Koplow, who are IMNSHO the best dice company, does
not make 3 siders. I did not see any in a cursory exam
of their (hard to use) website at www.koplowgames.com
If your game store does not deal with a games distributor
who deals with Chessex and/or Koplow then (IMNSHO) you
need a new games store. IIRC BTL Distributing should have
3 siders (for retailers, not for individuals).
If you like unusual dice I reccommend the 50 sided
(about $5) and 7 sided (about $ 5/pair, one black &
one white) that Gamescience used to make. Gamescience
and/or Zocchi Distibutors (no longer owned by Lou
Zocchi) may still have some. Seven siders look like
the Pentagon with the top & bottom being the 6th &
7th sides. Fifty siders look like an 8 sider that has
each face divided vertically 12 or 13 times until they
resemble a top. If anyone can suggest a good source
for 18, 26, & 36 sided dice please let me know.
PS - I agree with the notion that T4's implemntation
of the d3 was a bit clunky but as a dice junky I had
to buy several d3's despite my reservations as to
their usefullness.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:15:40 GMT
From: Postmark Design Bureau
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:
>
> Excellent!
> Now all we need are some house rules for ships that wish to convert
> to carrying water as fuel! What cracking machinery, new fule lines,
> intake gear is needed and can they stiil scoop at Gas Giants etc.
> (Please remember the Volume for us MT folks!)
> Jim
This is an easy question to answer:
Just use standard fuel scoops and purification plant and a streamlined
hull. According the High Guard, 2nd Ed p 27:
"On streamlined ships, such an installation also includes hoses or other
equipment for drawing water from oceans."
- --
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division
"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1828
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Traveller-digest Saturday, January 29 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1829
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: THUDD
Re: Traveller Topic PostsGlenn
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
OT: Runequest
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
OT: Runequest
Why Do I Like Traveller?
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Chris Dixon
RE: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Why Do I Like Traveller?
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: Query for Mr Plummer
Request
Re: Request
Re: Request
Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
RE: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: What got you into Trav and keeps you coming back
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:39:55 GMT
From: Postmark Design Bureau
Subject: Re: THUDD
Bruce Macintosh wrote:
> >BTW, what did you do with the comments that people could submit with
> >their ratings? I, for one, would like to know waht people said about my
> >design.
>
> Me too - I am disappointed that people didn't like the Darwin more; I was
> very proud of the cost-effectiveness and versatility of the design.
> And I'm curious if anyone worked out the hidden agenda.
>
> Bruce
It had my vote in the unpublished ballot back in 1998.
Unfortunately, I missed the voting this time.
I also seem to be missing the hidden agenda.
- --
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division
"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:11:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic PostsGlenn
Glenn Goffin said:
>
> >early years... Still stick with AD&D, RuneQuest, and Traveller.
> >AD&D is still the best for a quick fantasy pick-up game,
>
> Maybe, but I think your name is just familiar from the list.
Well, I have been on and off this list since the early days
of MegaTraveller...
> Were you at Swarthmore in the late 70s?
Heh. No, I was in high school and then a freshman at Georgia Tech
in those days.
--C.
- --
(To be filled in with something clever or really dumb someday..)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:10:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Ian Ferguson said:
> >Do I know you? We were playing those EXACT same games in my
> >early years... Still stick with AD&D, RuneQuest, and Traveller.
> >AD&D is still the best for a quick fantasy pick-up game,
>
> There is a pattern here, I have always favoured Traveller,
> Aftermath, and Runequest. The Morrow Project and FASA's
> Star Trek TRPG are also up there, but AD&D has faded for me
> somewhat.
Maybe the pattern is high-quality games with really interesting
backgrounds? Well, at least workable rules with interesting
backgrounds.
--C.
- --
(To be filled in with something clever or really dumb someday..)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:53:25 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de said:
> I've asked myself what in-universe-explanation there might be for the
> two-dimensional jumpspace maps in the background. I know, the actual
> reason is simplicity, and after I tried my own approach for 3D in
> Traveller, I understand that even better.
>
[snip]
> Of course, keeping this in mind, it makes no sense to map the actual
> positions of stars in space.
> Instead, star maps are maps of the jump space structure, counting not
> true distances, but jump distances.
> And those maps are, of course:
> Two-dimensional."
>
> What do you think?
It's the only explanation we could come up with that made any kind
of sense. Of course, it means you CAN'T use the jump space maps
for real-space, STL or NAFAL travel. It also means nasty things can
happen if something re-arranges the relationship between jump space
and the real universe (see my "700 Years After" essay on my Traveller
page -- which idea was inspired by the books "Antares Dawn" and "Antares
Passage").
--Cynthia
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:09:18 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: OT: Runequest
Rupert Boleyn said:
> On 28 Jan 00, at 6:44, Cynthia Higginbotham wrote:
> > Where else can you play merchant trolls working for a talking catfish? Or
> > Death-god worshipping ducks? And it actually makes sense! (And one of
> > these days we will finally climb Condor Crags...)
>
> That was my initial response, too (less AD&D, plus C&S). However
> as I grew up in provincial New Zealand I decided the answer was no.
> When it comes to RQ how about the Duck swashbuckler bandits? I
> always liked Gloranthan Trolls (from a safe distance, of course).
So have I. I have to thank the anime series DBZ for finally
giving me insight in how to run the attitude of Zorak Zorani
looking for a rumble...
(Saiyans on a typical bad hair day == ZZ Death Lords)
My favorite character is an Argan Argar Dark Troll ( he was too
mellow for ZZ, although he had the strength and skill in spades).
ObTrav: see my other post on the topic.
--C.
- --
(To be filled in with something clever or really dumb someday..)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:19:33 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
William Barnett-Lewis said:
> on 1/28/00 10:57 PM, SD Mooney said
>
> > I recently
> > indulged in the reprint of Pavis and Big Rubble because of this.
>
> Ain't it exquisite? I've been telling people that if you only want to buy
> one Glorantha book, that is the one to get. I wish I were half so
> creative...
Reprint? I still have my originals!
There are a few RQ2 things I'm missing, that I made the stupid
mistake of throwing out when RQ3 came out because I thought they
were completely superceded: the original RQ2 rulebook, which had
lots of useful Dragon Pass info in the back, _Plunder_, which
had a number of unique special items that are still referred to
in other RQ supplements, _Runemasters_ (no great loss, I can brew my own),
and I never did get my hands on "Nomad Gods". (I've got the lovely
AH deluxe version of "Dragon Pass" though--nice game).
Original TrollPack and the Borderlands supplement had some of the
best art of all the RQ supplements. I've been running some of my
favorite pictures over a scanner. ;-). Borderlands has an
absolutely lovely picture of a Tusk Rider on his mount in it,
and Trollpack has Smiling Trolls. (If that's smiling, I don't want
to see them mad...)
--C.
- --
(To be filled in with something clever or really dumb someday..)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:04:45 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: OT: Runequest
Frank G. Pitt said:
>
> > And Runequest--I keep coming back to Glorantha.
> > Where else can you play merchant trolls working for a talking catfish?
>
> Or trollkin trying not get eaten ?
Gee, I hope you weren't one of those trollkin we kept using
for Disruption practice...
> > Or Death-god worshipping ducks?
>
> With great-swords !
I have a Yelornan girl who's on the run from one of those--
she and a companion came across a Death Drake bathing in the river,
and there was this pile of unprotected iron armor on the riverbank..
(cue "Take the money and run"..) He wasn't too happy about having his
armor stolen :-)
> > And it actually makes sense!
> > (And one of these days we will finally climb Condor Crags...)
>
> Once you've succeeded in that, try transporting some of those exploding
> berries from Balazar back to civilization.
Heh. Steve's runelord is an Balazaring native who went Orlanthi.
Climbing Griffin Mountain was entertaining, but an awful lot of
party members manage to go SPLAT! (It's not the fall that kills you,
it's the sudden stop at the bottom...) I don't believe he ever had
the misfortune to run across the cherry bombs--it's a chaos-tainted
fruit tree, IIRC, and a random Elder Wilds encounter.
Besides, would you really call Pavis "civilization"?
ObTrav: For Steve's short-lived TNE TCS game, I converted Gloranthan
Trolls into a TTL 9 civilization. It was a lot of fun extrapolating
them to a technological society. Fusion Plant engineers belong to
the Society of Zorak Zoran... so do Jarheads.
--Cynthia
- --
(To be filled in with something clever or really dumb someday..)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:05:22 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Why Do I Like Traveller?
What can I say? The published material, in greater and
lesser extents, carry a part of Mr. Miller's personality
and philosophy with them, and perhaps that is what I have
always felt is agreeable about Traveller.
Mr. Miller is a known quantity, and so is Mr. Loren. The
more we read their stuff, the more we understand their
mindset. I am comfortable with their philosophy, which
may or may not be the same as that of GDW. But it does
seem to be conservative enough to make me happy. They have
earned my trust.
When I look at other game systems, I have to judge them
on the rulebook alone. I don't know the writers. I
don't know the professor who created Tekumel, or the
writers for Shadowrun. I do see that whoever commissions
the artwork often has scantily-clad bimbos on the cover.
Since I'm an old codger now, I'd feel strange having one
of those rulebooks lying around... makes me feel like one
of Mulder's friends on the X-files: you know, those
computer hackers extraordinaire? A little too reclusive
for my tastes.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:32:52 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>On 01/29/2000 03:25, Steven Hudson wrote:
>
>>> From: Glenn St-Germain
>>> Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>> ....
>>> its host. Cuba's economic difficulty is a great example of this.
>>
>> Interesting. I'd have put Cuba's plight down largely to 30-40
>> years of economic warfare by the U.S. and its' client states.
>>
>I don't disagree totally, but I will say that the USA's economic embargo has
>played a major role in Cuba's economic shambles, as did the departure of the
>Soviet dole. But the time has come to do to Cuba what we did to the Soviet
>Union.
Let organized criminals take over the economy? Given Cuba's location, that
would probably be those nice rich Colombians....
Frankly, given how close Cuba is to the American mainland, I'd think that
Marshall Plan-style assistance would prove cheaper in the long run.
> I think that's where Canada can lend a hand in helping us deal
>with the Cuban people.
I'm curious. Why Canada?
>Castro is, at least, in the age bracket when all the Old Guard of the Soviet
>leadership began to (as Reagan put it) dropped like flies. Brezhnev was 75
>in '82, Andropov 69 in '84 and Chernenko 73 in '85. The Old Man with the
>Beard is the only guy holding this all together, and when he dies, that's
>when Cuba will be free again. So we need to get ready.
I'm curious. How do you define "free"?
(Not a facitious question, BTW. I've wasted too many hours debating with
people only to dicover that we were using words to mean different things.
Saves a lot of acrimony to define your terms at teh start.)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:52:42 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions
Subject: Chris Dixon
Paging Chris Dixon,
My personal reply (not to the list) to you bounced back. If you e-mail
me again, I will resend my reply.
Thanks,
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:10:43 -0800
From: "Tsykoduk"
Subject: RE: Traveller Topic Posts
I agree - for me it was the background, added with the flexibility of the
tech system. I started on the Big LBB in the 80's but they never really
caught hold for me - they were fun, and I loved striker and the ability to
get in and design stuff as well as reading stories about the 3I. But we
played a ton of AD&D - simpler game for simpler minds. Soon moved from AD&D
into Palladium. All thru this, playing SFB when ever I got the chance.
MT caught me tho. Not the background. Most of the stuff that I ran in MT
just kinda ignored the rebellion (alto, I loved getting the books and
following the story line). I liked the tech system - sensors, tanks, hours
in a PSSW (pre-spread-sheet-world) to design cool stuff like Tech-5 Space
Ships or T15 tanks with ship board Pulse Lasers as main cannon.. hehehe.
Moved from Palladium into RoleMaster - got really hooked on the Shadow World
for the background.
TNE - the story lost it. The system lost it when I had a character take 3
.45's to the chest and walk away. I actually went back to the LBBs then,
using a hack of striker as the combat system, and adding sensors, improved
power consumption rules and landing packages to the ship design system, and
ran Hard Times - one of the best trav's I have run IMHO - players started
clamoring to run it 2 times a week (oh, college - how I yearn for you).
Then an Evil Thing (tm) happened. I got my first copy of FFS. My Goodness. I
suddenly had a big reason to 'fix' the IMESHO broken TNE rules. (altho I
never liked the turrets in TNE - hacked that one out too).
Bought T-4 - the art almost killed me (never have seen such an ugly
rendering of a Wonder Wedge - apologies to the artist). The system sure did.
1/2 dice? sorry not my cup o' baileys. I still bought almost everything
(except the one thing that I wish I had - Pocket Empires), and read the
background stuff, as I always do.
It's been a long road - and I am ever so temped by the Evil Empire (GURPS).
I have held out so far, but fear that I might be taken in soon... Still run
RM and play SFB.. my stable is basically those three games.
I played RuneQuest once or twice, but the RuneQuest/Traveller geeks were an
Elitist bunch, and us D&Ders were not allowed. So I never really got into it
Kinda left a bad taste in my mouth (the people, not the system). The rest,
just never caught my eye in the local gaming shop.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Ian Ferguson
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 11:45 AM
To: traveller@mpgn.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Cynthia Higginbotham writes:
>Glenn Goffin said:
>>also first played Aftermath, Bushido, Runequest, and of course
>>D&D and AD&D at that time, but have spent almost no time on any
>>of them since.
>Do I know you? We were playing those EXACT same games in my
>early years... Still stick with AD&D, RuneQuest, and Traveller.
>AD&D is still the best for a quick fantasy pick-up game,
There is a pattern here, I have always favoured Traveller,
Aftermath, and Runequest. The Morrow Project and FASA's
Star Trek TRPG are also up there, but AD&D has faded for me
somewhat.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:31:24 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Why Do I Like Traveller?
At 01:05 1/29/00 -0600, you wrote:
(snip)
>When I look at other game systems, I have to judge them
>on the rulebook alone. I don't know the writers. I
>don't know the professor who created Tekumel, or the
>writers for Shadowrun. I do see that whoever commissions
>the artwork often has scantily-clad bimbos
What king of word is that? Is this to mean what I suppose?
> on the cover.
(snip)
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had
to do this for almost 300 years by now."
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp
;-) ingo heinscher
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:38:05 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Robert Prior wrote:
> >>
> >I don't disagree totally, but I will say that the USA's economic embargo has
> >played a major role in Cuba's economic shambles, as did the departure of the
> >Soviet dole. But the time has come to do to Cuba what we did to the Soviet
> >Union.
>
> Let organized criminals take over the economy? Given Cuba's location, that
> would probably be those nice rich Colombians....
Either that or the same organized criminals who were running the place
_before_ Castro :-/ Between Batista and Ginacana, I'm sure at least some
of their successors are still plotting revenge.
There's also the Mexican Narcos...they have tons and tons of money just
floating around. In fact they've siphoned a lot of the business away from
the Colombians.
(side note: That'll make an interesting set-to as the erstwile
marxists in Colombia take over more of the cocaine trade. They may not be
as willing to give up as much to the Mexican middlemen. And they have
armies.)
Many of the more vociferous members of the anti-Castro crowd in Miami are
also a heck of a lot more anti-Castro than pro-democracy.
Oh, yeah...life will be interesting, to say the least, if Cuba goes the
way of Russia.
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:43:20 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
At 09:53 1/29/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Of course, it means you CAN'T use the jump space maps
>for real-space, STL
Oh, I think you could use them for short-range STL travel: That is why I
used that "crumpled table cover" comparison (exp?). If the actual length of
a jump distance doesn't vary too much, stars that are close on a jump space
map are also close in normal space. You would have to adjust travel times
by a percentage that depensds on the region of jump space where you travel.
> or NAFAL travel.
(Not As Fast As Light?)
Of course, for the few long-range STL travels reported in Traveller, one
could "adjust" the structure of jump space to fit with the existing
material.
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:57:18 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 02:46:21 -0500 (EST), "Jason T. Barnabas"
wrote:
>From: Robert Prior
>> Failing that, maybe Jeff could add it to Freelance Traveller? (One of my
>> favourite websites, BTW. No problems under any browser I'd used, looks
>> good, and a decent variety of material.)
>Can you post the Freelance Traveller URL?
Freelance Traveller, edited by yours truly, can always be found
at http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller. Currently, that V3URL
redirects you to
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm. There is
also a mirror at http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:24:05 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Request
I'm asking again (or perhaps I'm in everyone's killfiles, who knows..)
Is there a William H. Keith, Jr. on this mailing list?
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:15:44 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Request
At 14:24 1/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm asking again (or perhaps I'm in everyone's killfiles, who knows..)
>
>Is there a William H. Keith, Jr. on this mailing list?
I recommend you just wait until Monday or Wednesday. By then, everyone
should have received your postings...
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:31:54 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Request
I wasn't aware there was a "lag". I get messages every 30 minutes (or
sooner if I manually check).
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ingo Heinscher"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Request
> At 14:24 1/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
> >I'm asking again (or perhaps I'm in everyone's killfiles, who knows..)
> >
> >Is there a William H. Keith, Jr. on this mailing list?
>
> I recommend you just wait until Monday or Wednesday. By then, everyone
> should have received your postings...
> For Iridium Throne and glory!
> ingo heinscher ;-)
>
> Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
> ... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:13:47 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
Matthew Bond wrote:
> >Via electronic medium on 1/23/00 8:29 PM, aramis@gci.net wrote:
> >
> >> IMTU, however, you can get a variety of
> >> interfaces for just about any computer of TL8+. TUI, GUI, 3DUI, ATUI,
> >> TTUI...
> >
> >Text User Interface
> >Graphical User Interface
> >3 Dimensional User Interface
> >Audible Text User Interface
> >
> >I'm right so far, eh? But TTUI has me stumped.
> >
>
> Hmm, perhaps "Touchable" Text User Interface, eg Braille Keyboards and
> output...
I was thinking "Tele-Type User Interface." You know, with an acoustic
coupler running at 1200 baud or so. Perfect for playing "Hammurabi."
;-)
>
> Matt
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:27:22 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Traveller Topic Posts
> On Behalf Of Cynthia Higginbotham
> > > I recently indulged in the reprint
> > > of Pavis and Big Rubble because of this.
>
> Reprint? I still have my originals!
Ditto.
> There are a few RQ2 things I'm missing,
> that I made the stupid mistake of throwing
> out when RQ3 came out because I thought they
> were completely superceded: the original RQ2
> rulebook, which had lots of useful Dragon Pass
> info in the back,
You want one ?
They still turn up over here in New Zealand every now and then, it's one of
the few RPG's that got distribution in our major booksellers back then, so I
could keep an eye out if you'd like.
> _Plunder_, which had a number of unique
> special items that are still referred to
> in other RQ supplements, _Runemasters_
> (no great loss, I can brew my own),
Yep, still have those too.
> and I never did get my hands on "Nomad Gods".
I have a copy, and have been working on getting it all scanned so that I can
put the originals away in a safe place. Hardest part is the map, I'm
thinking of doing it in sections and sticking it on cardboard like those old
Avalon Hill wargames.
> Original TrollPack and the Borderlands supplement had some of the
> best art of all the RQ supplements. I've been running some of my
> favorite pictures over a scanner. ;-). Borderlands has an
> absolutely lovely picture of a Tusk Rider on his mount in it,
> and Trollpack has Smiling Trolls. (If that's smiling, I don't want
> to see them mad...)
Lisa Free's stuff is great.
I wonder if she still does any work ?
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:18:51 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>>its host. Cuba's economic difficulty is a great example of this.
>
> Interesting. I'd have put Cuba's plight down largely to 30-40
>years of economic warfare by the U.S. and its' client states.
The US sanctions against Cuba affect only the U.S.; U.S. client
states, such as Canada*, are still free to trade with Cuba, as is
the rest of the world. Yet the Cuban economy is still a shambles.
Cuba could thrive on trade with the rest of the Carribean, Central
America, and South America, if it had an economic system that would
allow it to do so.
(* - said tongue-in-cheek)
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:15:42 -0800
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan"
Subject: Re: What got you into Trav and keeps you coming back
I am the sort of person who needs to feel that they matter in the scale of
things. In D&D you went around from town to town and dungeon to dungeon and
schlepped about but you always knew you were basically insignificant in the
face of the universe. It was all about collecting stuff: kills, spells,
experience, levels... I don't like that kind of quest game. I am not here
in real life or my fantasy life to pick up all the tokens and turn them in
for a bigger one.
TRAVELLER, the way our referee ran it, was a giant space opera. We knew we
mattered in the scale of things. We started out schlepping about from star
system to star system, but there were all these little clues that things
weren't right at the top of the world and we put them together slowly. We
could never tell anyone exactly how, but we made a big difference in the
Fifth Frontier War. And then we started hearing all these rumors about
trouble at Court, about IRIS and IBIS... and Julissa found out that her
sister Jenezia, who had married the guy she didn't want to marry and
inherited everything, was hanging out with this fellow... it became obvious
to us, because of things that only we could have known that someone was
trying to replace Strephon with a clone... and we had to go to Capital and
fix it. (And Julissa had to kill her sister, which wasn't a lot of fun for
her but she had sort of known for a while that it was coming. My other
character was busy dealing with the fact that she had a double who was a
SORAG agent...)
There was a story to Traveller. And we were part of it. It wasn't just a
dungeon crawl where you killed things, acquired stuff and experience points
and levels, and hoped nothing killed you.
The other good thing about Traveller was that there was something there for
everybody. The gearheads could sit around for hours and play with designing
new stuff. The wargamers could get into the big combats (I'd just roll the
dice when asked to do so, and make cookies for everyone), and then when we
had to interact face to face with the NPC's to find out stuff, there was me
and one other player that were good at that. Sometimes I'm not really sure
that it was the system. I think it was that we were all too new to this to
have decided we only wanted to do stuff with others who had the same
priorities. So it was possible to have a really good campaign with all the
elements because there were people there who could handle it all.
I never cared about how my computer or my ship or my vacc suit worked. I
just cared about what I could do with them. I suppose this is similar to
the attitude fantasy game players have about magick, but because I'm an
occultist and a student of ancient and modern religions, that's a harder
attitude for me to get into. Magick is not just a tool for me, like my
computer or my TV or my answering machine-- I don't really CARE how they
work, I just care that when I turn them on, they do what they're supposed to
do. I would say to one of my gearhead friends "I want to be able to do this
and this and this" and they would tell me whether or not it was possible and
then they would put it together if they could.
We would have long conversations in character. We messed around with the
CGen rules to get the kind of characters we wanted for our game (the CGen
rules are the only part of CT that I didn't always care for-- too random--
people need to be able to play things that suit their personalities).
For a couple of hours or an entire day every week, we would be people in
another universe. I haven't been able to game that way in a really long
time. After CCG's got popular and people started doing a lot of computer
RPG's and PBEM it just kind of died out. It's only fun for me if I can be
someone else for a while, and interact with other people who are doing that.
But LARPing is too much the other direction. I would have loved it when I
was 16, but I don't have time for the props and stuff.
Kiri =)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God...
tiamat@tsoft.com
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is
sacred somewhere. There's a deity out there who digs it. You can respect
and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or
impractical. It's all about giving yourself permission."
-- Jack Darkhand
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1829
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Traveller-digest Saturday, January 29 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1830
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Request
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Request
Re: Request
Link to Ditzie (was: Re: new trav player needs...)
Re: Request
Re: Request
Re: Runequest
Re: H20 as Fuel
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Question on starship fuel
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
RE: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
RE: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
RE: Request
Schools
Re: Request
Re: Request
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: Request
Re: Request
Re: Request
Re: Request
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:32:10 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Request
> On Behalf Of Jory Earl
>
> I wasn't aware there was a "lag". I get messages every 30 minutes (or
> sooner if I manually check).
Yeah, but not everybody reads their email at home, or even every 24 hrs.
BTW, I don't think Willianm Keith was ever on the list, the ony time we had
comms from him was when someone posted a message from him by request.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:33:44 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Tsykoduk wrote:
>
<>
>
> Bought T-4 - the art almost killed me (never have seen such an ugly
> rendering of a Wonder Wedge - apologies to the artist). The system sure did.
> 1/2 dice? sorry not my cup o' baileys. I still bought almost everything
> (except the one thing that I wish I had - Pocket Empires), and read the
> background stuff, as I always do.
As of last week, my FLGS had at least one copy of _Pocket Empires_,
along with several other T4 supplements. Try:
http://www.littlewars.com
<>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:41:45 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: Request
Not all people check everyday or even every few days. For it to disseminate
throughout the TML could take a week or more!!!!
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jory Earl"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: Request
> I wasn't aware there was a "lag". I get messages every 30 minutes (or
> sooner if I manually check).
> ___________________________________________________________
> J-Man
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:12:40 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Request
Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+ messages
from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do you guys who don't
check all the time ever keep up?
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Harris"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Request
> Not all people check everyday or even every few days. For it to
disseminate
> throughout the TML could take a week or more!!!!
>
> Thom
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jory Earl"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 2:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Request
>
>
> > I wasn't aware there was a "lag". I get messages every 30 minutes (or
> > sooner if I manually check).
> > ___________________________________________________________
> > J-Man
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:12:21 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Link to Ditzie (was: Re: new trav player needs...)
Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:
>
> Via electronic medium on 1/24/00 6:08 AM, travelergm@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > A pack of bubblegum, a FGMP-15, and a really good pair of Mirrorshades?
> >
>
> Evil grin indeed, you didn't even drop a link to Ditzie. Poor newbie is
> probably still scratching his head. Could someone with the link handy clue
> the guy in?
>
<>
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/ditzie.htm
For the enlightenment of those who are new to the ongoing story of the
TML, Ditzie (formally Ditzammer Spofulam) has been described as follows:
>The way it was described to me (after I blew it the first time), was that
>indeed it was meant as a joke. She's this hyper-intelligent, very young
>girl with a speech impediment, almost no restraint whatsover :), and she
>happens to be the chief R&D designer for a company that makes some SERIOUS
>hardware. And she was on "something", but I can't remember what it was
>supposed to be for. Could be worse. She was originally supposed to be a
>4yr old :)
She is only the chief designer of the High Energy weapons Division.
Famille
Spofulam Yards is the other big arm, run by Ditzie's Uncle Hengebar,
producing ethically challenged starships and there's a projectile
weapons
division which played with an asteroid mass driver....
Some examples of Famile Spofulam's work can be found at:
http://www.bits.org.uk
[follow the "Archives" link from the main page]
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:14:53 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Request
Well I just read his book, "Bolo Rising" and wanted to give him a hearty
"well done". Once picked up and opened, this book remained in my hand until
the last page, some 5 hours later.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: Request
>
>
> > On Behalf Of Jory Earl
> >
> > I wasn't aware there was a "lag". I get messages every 30 minutes (or
> > sooner if I manually check).
>
> Yeah, but not everybody reads their email at home, or even every 24 hrs.
>
> BTW, I don't think Willianm Keith was ever on the list, the ony time we
had
> comms from him was when someone posted a message from him by request.
>
> Frankie
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:07:10 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Request
From: Jory Earl
> Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+
> messages from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do you
> guys who don't check all the time ever keep up?
During weekdays, I can only check maybe once a day. So I am qualified to
answer this question. :)
We don't.
Which is exactly why people get pissy about off-topic messages from time to
time, and which is why if the list doesn't stay at the recent relatively low
level of activity I'll have no choice but to unsubscribe.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:21:11 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Runequest
>ObTrav: For Steve's short-lived TNE TCS game, I converted Gloranthan
>Trolls into a TTL 9 civilization. It was a lot of fun extrapolating
>them to a technological society. Fusion Plant engineers belong to
>the Society of Zorak Zoran... so do Jarheads.
>
> --Cynthia
You'd have to call your Free Trader the "Argan Argar"
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:36:55 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: H20 as Fuel
>William F. Hostman wrote:
>Anthony Jackson quoth me thusly, and then adds
>>William F. Hostman writes:
>>> So, if you want a 100Td, J2 you need purification capable of 15% (under
MT,
>>> remember? MT has lower JFuel costs) of hull or 15Td in 20 minutes.
That's
>>> 120Td per 6 hours, or 162kl (13.5 kl to the MT Td) per 6 hours.
Anthony Jackson wrote the following under the above
>>Um...15 tD/20 minutes = 270 Td per 6 hours. 270 Td/6 hours = 3645 kl/6
hours.
>>> using the tl 15 fpp:
>>> Power Vol Wt
>>> 0.005 0.2 0.4 Cr150
>>> x162 x162 x162 x162
>>> ===============================================================
>>> 0.81MW 32.4kl 64.8 Cr24300
>
>> 18.225MW 729kl (54TD) 1458T Cr546,750
The bottom set of figures are from the revised values AJ posted above,
calculated using 3645kl rather than your 162kl.
>>The power plant slice for that is fairly negligible, but adding 54 tD of
>>equipment to replace 7.5 tD of fuel tankage is not exactly efficient.
>>
>Where the [delete expletive] are you getting THOSE figures?
Ummm, I think that was what AJ was saying to him self when he saw your first
figures .
>Under MT, fuel purification is pretty effective. Your additional line of
>data makes no sense... I'd already caried out the math needed.
Alas, yours had some flawed calculations to calculate the volume of fuel
that needed to be processed in 6 hours.
Matt
Matthew Bond
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"
- --------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:43:54 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>I played RuneQuest once or twice, but the RuneQuest/Traveller geeks were an
>Elitist bunch, and us D&Ders were not allowed. So I never really got into
it
>Kinda left a bad taste in my mouth (the people, not the system). The rest,
>just never caught my eye in the local gaming shop.
I love RQ with a strange and intense passion, I bought the game the same
day I saw "Excalibur" at the cinema. A dangerous combination.
But I'm afraid I *cannot* bear the RQ lists, who cares what the shoelace
fashions of the second age in Fronela were? Why bother argue over them!
Thats why I like the TML, the arguments that are really trivial are soon
forgotten.
Did I tell you my idea about pirates . . .
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:03:33 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
>> Excellent!
>> Now all we need are some house rules for ships that wish to convert
>> to carrying water as fuel! What cracking machinery, new fule lines,
>> intake gear is needed and can they stiil scoop at Gas Giants etc.
>> (Please remember the Volume for us MT folks!)
>> Jim
>
>This is an easy question to answer:
>Just use standard fuel scoops and purification plant and a streamlined
>hull. According the High Guard, 2nd Ed p 27:
>"On streamlined ships, such an installation also includes hoses or other
> equipment for drawing water from oceans."
>Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo
I don't think this includes *Carrying* water as fuel, I see it as saying
it cracks the fuel in the purifier and stores it as L-Hyd. I meant rules for
water tankage, what the effects would be. It would be good shielding for a
satrt wouldn't it?
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:21:01 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
On 29 Jan 00, at 10:19, Cynthia Higginbotham wrote:
eprint? I still have my originals!
> There are a few RQ2 things I'm missing, that I made the stupid
> mistake of throwing out when RQ3 came out because I thought they
> were completely superceded: the original RQ2 rulebook, which had
> lots of useful Dragon Pass info in the back, _Plunder_, which
> had a number of unique special items that are still referred to
> in other RQ supplements, _Runemasters_ (no great loss, I can brew my own),
> and I never did get my hands on "Nomad Gods". (I've got the lovely AH
> deluxe version of "Dragon Pass" though--nice game).
Onr thing I always liked about RQII was how with just the little rule
book there was such potential (like CT I guess, and Aftermath, etc
now I think about it). I only ever had the RQII rules and _Cults of
Terror_ until RQIII came out (which we never used in Gorantha - it
never felt quite "right").
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:31:52 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
> On Behalf Of Black ICE
> Matthew Bond wrote:
> > >Via electronic medium on 1/23/00 8:29 PM, aramis@gci.net wrote:
> > >
> > >> IMTU, however, you can get a variety of
> > >> interfaces for just about any computer of TL8+. TUI, GUI, 3DUI, ATUI,
> > >> TTUI...
> > >
> > >Text User Interface
> > >Graphical User Interface
> > >3 Dimensional User Interface
> > >Audible Text User Interface
> > >
> > >I'm right so far, eh? But TTUI has me stumped.
> >
> > Hmm, perhaps "Touchable" Text User Interface, eg Braille Keyboards and
> > output...
>
> I was thinking "Tele-Type User Interface." You know, with an acoustic
> coupler running at 1200 baud or so. Perfect for playing "Hammurabi."
And I was thinking Thought Transference User Interface
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:31:52 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
> On Behalf Of Black ICE
> Matthew Bond wrote:
> > >Via electronic medium on 1/23/00 8:29 PM, aramis@gci.net wrote:
> > >
> > >> IMTU, however, you can get a variety of
> > >> interfaces for just about any computer of TL8+. TUI, GUI, 3DUI, ATUI,
> > >> TTUI...
> > >
> > >Text User Interface
> > >Graphical User Interface
> > >3 Dimensional User Interface
> > >Audible Text User Interface
> > >
> > >I'm right so far, eh? But TTUI has me stumped.
> >
> > Hmm, perhaps "Touchable" Text User Interface, eg Braille Keyboards and
> > output...
>
> I was thinking "Tele-Type User Interface." You know, with an acoustic
> coupler running at 1200 baud or so. Perfect for playing "Hammurabi."
And I was thinking Thought Transference User Interface
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:34:34 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Request
> Well I just read his book, "Bolo Rising"
> and wanted to give him a hearty "well done".
> Once picked up and opened, this book remained in my
> hand until the last page, some 5 hours later.
So, is that 'Bolo' as in "unstoppable automated war-machine" ?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:35:52 +0000
From: Ewan Quibell
Subject: Schools
Here's my first go at a school, comments welcome.
MT College/T4 Graduate Collage
MT
School Name: Turiikill School of Fashion and Textiles
Location: Turi 1817 Vland
Tech Level: 3 - F
Status: Private College
Degrees offered: Bachelors and Masters of Art, Master of Science, and Doctorate.
Number of students/faculty: 4 faculty's accommodating approximately 500
students each.
Noteworthy Programs: High Fashion Design and Textiles research and development
Effects: +2 Enlistment into Vilani Megacorps
Tuition and Fees: 6,000 Cr pa
Financial aid available: Scholarships available from Vilani Megacorps
Benefits: Automatic Enlistment into Vilani Megacorps sales department
for students with Honours
Admission Requirements: 11+ DM +2 if Edu 9+
Success: 7+ DM +2 if Int 8+ (or one year older no skills no Edu bonus if failed)
Skills: Artisan-2, +2 Edu
Honours: 11+ (extra +1 Edu)
T4
Prerequisite: Fashion or Textiles Graduate
Admission: 7-; DM +1 if Int 9+ DM +1 if Edu A+ (auto if Turiikill Graduate)
Tuition and Fees: 7,000 Cr pa
Failed Admission: nothing
Perseverance: 8-; DM +1 if End 7+; DM +2 if Int 9+
Flunked Out: Spent 1 year, Resurch-1
Graduate Skills: Resurch-1, Craftsman-1
Graduation: MA or MSc upon first completion, Ph.D. on second
Honours: 8-, benefit +1 Edu, (Auto Enlistment into Vilani Megacorp)
The Turiikill School follows traditional Vilani values. Most students
have had their choice of career already chosen for them. Students who
graduate from Turiikill are highly sort after by the Megacorps for their
innovation in Vilani fashion. The cultural Viliani don't rate fashion
designers who have not graduated from Turiikill.
Vilani fashion design consists of small innovations or changes on the
standard Vilani fashion (nothing outrageous), while the Vilani find this
innovative most other cultures thing that all the Vilani collections
look the same and have done for ever.
Textile research follows the same Vilani ethos, and although the
doctorates do expand the boundaries of knowledge they generally
involve small improvements in known textiles or production of textiles.
Small to no research is done into new textiles or ways of production.
Again the Vilani Megacorps are very interested in Post Grads in Textiles
for improvements in production, quality and to reduce costs. Textile
research covers the whole TL spectrum.
Ewan
- --
Ewan Quibell Their's not to make reply,
Senior Communications Engineer Their's not to reason why,
Computer Centre Their's but to do and die:
University of Brighton Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk Alfred, Lord Tennyson
#include
My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license
University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:46:02 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Request
At 16:07 1/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Jory Earl
>
>
>> Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+
>> messages from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do you
>> guys who don't check all the time ever keep up?
>
>During weekdays, I can only check maybe once a day. So I am qualified to
>answer this question. :)
>
>We don't.
>
>Which is exactly why people get pissy about off-topic messages from time to
>time, and which is why if the list doesn't stay at the recent relatively low
>level of activity I'll have no choice but to unsubscribe.
Wouldn't a Traveller newsgroup help people like you?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:17:32 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Request
>I wasn't aware there was a "lag". I get messages every 30 minutes (or
>sooner if I manually check).
>___________________________________________________________
> J-Man
I frequently see replies before the original message, and it's not unusual
for a message to take a day to wend its way from sender to my inbox.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:25:20 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>>>its host. Cuba's economic difficulty is a great example of this.
>>
>> Interesting. I'd have put Cuba's plight down largely to 30-40
>>years of economic warfare by the U.S. and its' client states.
>
>The US sanctions against Cuba affect only the U.S.; U.S. client
>states, such as Canada*, are still free to trade with Cuba, as is
>the rest of the world. Yet the Cuban economy is still a shambles.
>Cuba could thrive on trade with the rest of the Carribean, Central
>America, and South America, if it had an economic system that would
>allow it to do so.
A couple of years ago there was a Canadian company that traded with both
Cuba and the US -- they were being prosecuted in the US under a law
(Helms-Burton maybe?) that allowed the US government to fine them, and take
the fine out of their American assets...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:10:06 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Request
>>I wasn't aware there was a "lag". I get messages every 30 minutes (or
>>sooner if I manually check).
>>___________________________________________________________
>> J-Man
>
>I frequently see replies before the original message, and it's not unusual
>for a message to take a day to wend its way from sender to my inbox.
Can you imagine what the X-Boat system must be like for that!
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:21:08 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Request
And I assume in the UK, where any phone usage is metered, there are folks
using low-bandwidth dial-up accounts as well?
Obtrav :
I am forced to wonder with only slow X-boat traffic, how the Third Imperium
can maintain it's control of out-lying systems/subsectors? Surely the
Imperial Navy isn't so large they can police everywhere? From the Adventure
modules I've seen, there hasn't been a lot of 'corruption' on the local
government scene, as compared to what I think it probably should be; after
all, power corrupts and everyone wants a piece of the pie.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Seamans"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: Request
> We don't.
>
> Which is exactly why people get pissy about off-topic messages from time
to
> time, and which is why if the list doesn't stay at the recent relatively
low
> level of activity I'll have no choice but to unsubscribe.
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:23:44 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Request
Yes! Wonderful series. I've tried to get my hands on everything in print
on them since I read Keith Laumer's original "Bolo". Great idea, but would
they really be cost-effective? Wouldn't the Third Imperium get better
results using other means? After all, a Mark 31 Bolo is essentially a
dreadnought on tracks.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 5:34 PM
Subject: RE: Request
>
> > Well I just read his book, "Bolo Rising"
> > and wanted to give him a hearty "well done".
> > Once picked up and opened, this book remained in my
> > hand until the last page, some 5 hours later.
>
> So, is that 'Bolo' as in "unstoppable automated war-machine" ?
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:27:19 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Request
Now that you mention it, I have seen several replies to me and a day later
seen my original message pop up..
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Prior"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Request
> >I wasn't aware there was a "lag". I get messages every 30 minutes (or
> >sooner if I manually check).
> >___________________________________________________________
> > J-Man
>
> I frequently see replies before the original message, and it's not unusual
> for a message to take a day to wend its way from sender to my inbox.
>
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1830
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Traveller-digest Saturday, January 29 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1831
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Request
Website Updated
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: Request
Re: Re Computer Interfaces
Re: Re Fuel Hits [long]
Re: Starmap for free
Re: Starmap for free
Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
Re: Request
Re: Request
RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Imperial Government was Re: Request
Re: Imperial Government was Re: Request
Re: Request
Re: Request
The Allure of Traveller
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
re: request
Re: Different computer types (was Big Computers)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:40:10 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: Re: Request
>Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+ messages
>from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do you guys who don't
>check all the time ever keep up?
We get the digest version, which averages 4 to 5 messages a day. The pro to
this is that there are only 4 or 5 messages a day. The con to this is that
you can't ignore threads (or individuals) and it's hard to archive just the
stuff you want, though possible.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:01:35 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Website Updated
Just a brief post to let folks know that I added a good bit of
material to my website this afternoon. The URL is in my sig.
1. My take on the big computer issue: Computers vs Gravitics
2. Some background on the universe where I am running my games.
3. An a new ship, complete with deckplans.
Enjoy!
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:08:05 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>>The US sanctions against Cuba affect only the U.S.; U.S. client
>>states, such as Canada*, are still free to trade with Cuba, as is
>>the rest of the world. Yet the Cuban economy is still a shambles.
>>Cuba could thrive on trade with the rest of the Carribean, Central
>>America, and South America, if it had an economic system that would
>>allow it to do so.
>
>A couple of years ago there was a Canadian company that traded with both
>Cuba and the US -- they were being prosecuted in the US under a law
>(Helms-Burton maybe?) that allowed the US government to fine them, and take
>the fine out of their American assets...
If I recall correctly, that was nothing more than a threat -- the
possibility of retaliatory action is too great. Besides, there are a
lot of companies in the western hemisphere, particularly those in
Latin America, that have no assets in the US, so they'd be unaffected.
When Cuba was a Soviet client state, most of its international trade
was with the USSR and the Soviet Bloc. Now that the USSR is gone, Cuba
has virtually no international trade, because its economic system isn't
amenable to it. Blaming the USA for Cuba's woes is placing the blame
too far north.
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:02:41 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Request
>Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+ messages
>from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do you guys who don't
>check all the time ever keep up?
I subscribe to the Digest version of the TML, so I get a few posts per
day, which I can scroll through quickly, skipping over the threads that
I am not particularly interested in.
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:34:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Computer Interfaces
In mail you write:
>>Via electronic medium on 1/23/00 8:29 PM, aramis@gci.net wrote:
>>
>>> IMTU, however, you can get a variety of
>>> interfaces for just about any computer of TL8+. TUI, GUI, 3DUI, ATUI,
>>> TTUI...
>>
>>Text User Interface
>>Graphical User Interface
>>3 Dimensional User Interface
>>Audible Text User Interface
>>
>>I'm right so far, eh? But TTUI has me stumped.
>
> Tactile Text User Interface. AKA Braile Interface. Many blind individuals
> type quite well, and read as fast with fingers as most junior high school
> kids with eyes, if not faster. The few blind individuals I've known much
> prefer to read braile than to have things read by voice. I also include it
> in traveller since one of my homegrown minor races doesn't see with light
> (They are totally blind, but have echolocation sonar...) and thus CRT's and
> LCD's are blank to them; I assume holograms would be as well.But I also
> assume some tactile generation with holo-linked panels... generated by
> micro-repulsors. So braile would be easy for these to do.
Actually, if they see via echolocation, then displays would likely use
sonic holograms. Basicly, the same sort of tech that allows noise
cancelling (which we have now) can pick up their ranging pulses and
return proper "echoes" for things that aren't there while suppressing
real echoes. For safety, I expect the display would have a deliberate
"surface discontinuity" similar to a thin plate of some sonicly
transparent material to remind them not to try walking or reach thru it.
"Text" displays would be best as braille. And frankyly, the moving pin
method used now (with a few refinements) is likely to *still* be the
most rugged and practical braille "display". Repulsors are *far* too
complex.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:42:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Fuel Hits [long]
In mail you write:
> However, if you make a 1m hole into the fuel tankage, you will get some
> explosive venting due to rapid thermal expansion near the initial breach,
> plus the natural vacuum induced gassification of L-Hyd. So what you get is
> the holed compartment quickly produces a low thrust, prolly having an exit
> speed measured in maybe a few tens of meters per second. You'll get a jolt,
> a shudder, if you will, from the inital "Pop" through the hole (plus the
> pop from the hole being made, in most cases [2]), and then a gentle but
> steady and decreasing thrust while the fuel compartment evaporates the LHyd
> through the hole.
>
> If, however, you are in an atmosphere when hit by the same laser energies,
> you will have a different reaction with the hydrogen. If the atmosphere has
> the proper ammounts of oxygen, the molten metal from the detonation will
> probably be hot enough to ignite the initial heated gaseous hydrogen burst;
> if it does, you get a flare, not an explosion. A really HOT flare, which
> may well expand and round out said hole, and burn away surface features,
> etc. Provided you are going slow enough for the flame to keep up, you have
> a flare; too fast, and you get an FAE behind you, but you'll be much less
> hurt by it. If you're going way to fast, you won't have particularly
> flammable concentrations. [3]
If you are moving at more than a few hundred km/hr, a 1 meter hole in
the surface of the ship won't *stay* 1 meter very long. If you are
moving supersonic, it could rip the ship apart.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:48:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
In mail you write:
> Eric Henry wrote:
>> Galactic coordinates use the plane of the galaxy rather than the
>> plane of Earth's equator.
>>
>> It's just a matter of taste that i prefer galactic.
>
> Ah... I understand... and I also see the advantages of galactic
> coordinates.
>
> So, if you have a file using galactic carthesian coordinates for lots of
> stars near Sol, would you mind sharing it with the rest of us?
By definition, galatic co-ordinates, ecliptic co-ordinates (plane of
Earth's orbit) and equatorial co-ordinates are all *spherical*
co-ordinates.
Any "cartesian" co-ordinates you come across for star positions started
as one of those three types of co-ordinates, and were converted (and in
the process "lost" any info regarding how uncertain the position
was).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:52:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Starmap for free
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Well, you need to keep in mind that the actual *measurements* are in
>> spherical co-ordinates, and radius value is a *lot* more uncertain
>> that the two angle measurements. This means that the errors in XYZ
>> co-ordinates are kinda weird.
>
> For my purposes that doesn't really matter, and I guess that this would
> be the same for most referees out there. I am just going to use one
> value, and not care about the error (ie for a coordinate of A+-B, I will
> only use A).
Well, what I was trying to get across is that the error in *radius* is
*huge* compared to the errors in angle. So the "probable position" is
more of a long, thin ellipsoid than a sphere.
But I guess that can be just sort of ignored.
> So, what format is your data stored in, and how are coordinates listed?
I've got a copy of the old Gliese data around here somewhere.
Frankly, what's needed with most of these databases is a
cross-reference giving the "popular"/classical name for each star
("Sirius"), the "constellation based" name (ie "Alpha Canis Major"(?)),
and the various survey/catalog names. As well as things like "Barnard's
Star".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:02:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
In mail you write:
> I was thinking "Tele-Type User Interface." You know, with an acoustic
> coupler running at 1200 baud or so. Perfect for playing "Hammurabi."
> ;-)
Youngsters!
Those TTY interfaces with the accoustic couplers ran mostly at 110
baud. With some running at 300.
1200 bps (*not* baud) was only available with very expensive modems.
And they didn't "do" acooustic coupling.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:05:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Request
In mail you write:
> I wasn't aware there was a "lag". I get messages every 30 minutes (or
> sooner if I manually check).
Not everyone is glued to their mail program. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:41:46 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Request
Yeah. I need a life. :)
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Request
> In mail you write:
>
> > I wasn't aware there was a "lag". I get messages every 30 minutes (or
> > sooner if I manually check).
>
> Not everyone is glued to their mail program. :-)
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:43:20 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Well, I wasn't going to get involved in this, but once again the US jingoism
and propaganda bullshit is getting too much to bear.
> >A couple of years ago there was a Canadian company that traded with both
> >Cuba and the US -- they were being prosecuted in the US under a law
> >(Helms-Burton maybe?) that allowed the US government to fine
> them, and take
> >the fine out of their American assets...
>
> If I recall correctly, that was nothing more than a threat -- the
> possibility of retaliatory action is too great. Besides, there are a
> lot of companies in the western hemisphere, particularly those in
> Latin America, that have no assets in the US, so they'd be unaffected.
It's a hell of a lot more than a threat.
The US takes it upon itself to act as a pirate when it comes to Cuba.
A company I used to work for in New Zealand was exporting radio
communications equipment to Cuba in the early nineties. Some of it was on a
ship that had not intended to dock in the US, but was forced to do so due to
weather conditions or engine trouble or some similar unforseen circumstance.
The US customs "confiscated" (i.e: stole) this radio equipment off the boat
because it was bound for Cuba. Though they had absolutely no legal right to
do so under either US or international law, our legal advice was that the
cost of the equipmnet (some tens of thousands of dollars ) was less than the
amount of lawyers fees we'd have to pay to try and get the stuff back.
This a classic example of why us non-US citizens don't like the US and
consider it a fascist bully.
> When Cuba was a Soviet client state, most of its international trade
> was with the USSR and the Soviet Bloc. Now that the USSR is gone, Cuba
> has virtually no international trade,
Not true. Many countries currently trade with Cuba, and more would if it was
not for the difficulties of shipping to Cuba without going through the
United States.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:05:10 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > I was thinking "Tele-Type User Interface." You know, with an acoustic
> > coupler running at 1200 baud or so. Perfect for playing "Hammurabi."
> > ;-)
>
> Youngsters!
>
> Those TTY interfaces with the accoustic couplers ran mostly at 110
> baud. With some running at 300.
Hey, cut me some slack. I was in sixth through eighth grades at the
time I dealt with the things. (And in high school when the TRS-80 came
out.) At least I know what an acoustic coupler _is_.
Actually, after I posted, I realized that I was a bit optimistic, but I
was thinking about 600 baud.
ObTrav: In computers, at least, we've jumped two to three TLs in the
past 30 years. What social and economic effects would a similar
increase in a world's global TL have? Say, a tech uplift project to
raise a world from TL-10 to TL-12 in 30 years.
<>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:27:27 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
At 11:46 pm 1/29/00 +0100, you wrote:
>At 16:07 1/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
>>From: Jory Earl
>>
>>
>>> Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+
>>> messages from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do
you
>>> guys who don't check all the time ever keep up?
>>
>>During weekdays, I can only check maybe once a day. So I am
qualified to
>>answer this question. :)
>>
>>We don't.
>>
>>Which is exactly why people get pissy about off-topic messages from
time to
>>time, and which is why if the list doesn't stay at the recent
relatively low
>>level of activity I'll have no choice but to unsubscribe.
>
>Wouldn't a Traveller newsgroup help people like you?
Boy, we have really got to come up with a good text-only FAQ that
gets sent out to new subscribers, and maybe posted to the list once a
month or so ...
This is a recurring thread, which usually gets shot down. Some
reasons many listmembers oppose newsgroups are:
- The generall crappy signal to noise ratio on Use(less)net. Between
spammers, trollers, and all-around jerks, many--myself
included--consider Uselessnet to be less desirable than switching
over to a paper-based mailing list.
- The concern about falling victim to email harvesters raping
newsgroups. At least with a subscription-only mailing list, there's a
perception that the frequency is somewhat lower.
- The convenience in having the list delivered directly, instead of
having to fire up a separate application and actively go out to
retrieve articles. No fear of losing things or missing things if
you're gone for a week and your cheesy ISP expires articles after
only five days to save space.
- The ability to use all the same tools we use for email--and most
people may not be able/willing to sacrifice those tools to switch to
Winblows Outlook or similar "do-it-all" mail program.
OK, three of the four are my reasons, and I'm sure everybody else can
contribute their own. Suffice to say, the occasional request (the
most recent only last month) hasn't generated any support.
Suggestion: I believe it's possible to have a standard text file sent
out to a new subscriber automatically, depending on the mailing list
software. I propose we start a "mini-FAQ" to go there. It would
include a pointer to the full-up online FAQ, but it would also
contain at least a brief summary of some of the major items. Topics
could include
- Which versions of Traveller (ALL: CT, MT, TNE, T4, GT, The Erisian
Heresy, and YTU).
- Marc Miller's website
- Traveller Webrings
- Why not a newsgroup
- Topics Done to Death (ie read the online FAQ before stepping in):
pirates, killer lifeboats, comfy Aslan shoes
- General list etiquette: don't get personal, don't take things
personal, stay on topic, expect spirited discussion
- maybe a few other items
It should be kept fairly short so there's a chance new members will
actually READ it ...
- -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft
product.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:59:58 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: Imperial Government was Re: Request
>And I assume in the UK, where any phone usage is metered, there are folks
>using low-bandwidth dial-up accounts as well?
>
>Obtrav :
>
>I am forced to wonder with only slow X-boat traffic, how the Third Imperium
>can maintain it's control of out-lying systems/subsectors? Surely the
>Imperial Navy isn't so large they can police everywhere? From the
Adventure
>modules I've seen, there hasn't been a lot of 'corruption' on the local
>government scene, as compared to what I think it probably should be; after
>all, power corrupts and everyone wants a piece of the pie.
I think that you overlook the basis of Imperial Government. The Imperial
Nobility holds onto power because they own the Megacorps (either directly or
through stock holdings.) Since they also own large amounts of land and
infrastructure they have every reason to keep corruption to a minimum. Of
course "corruption" is anyone but them getting a piece of they pie. As for
policing local areas, the nobility have huscarles (which sometimes consist
of entire regiments of troops), System Defense Forces, Colonial Fleets, and
great influence with the other local military and police forces. Nobles
swear fealty to the Imperium and to the Imperial Nobles of higher rank
(though AFAIK canon doesn't specify the exact lines of fealty for the
nobility in any specific sector.)
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:19:44 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Imperial Government was Re: Request
sounds almost totally Feudal to me.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Carlino"
To: "Traveller Mailing list"
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 7:59 PM
Subject: Imperial Government was Re: Request
>
> I think that you overlook the basis of Imperial Government. The Imperial
> Nobility holds onto power because they own the Megacorps (either directly
or
> through stock holdings.) Since they also own large amounts of land and
> infrastructure they have every reason to keep corruption to a minimum. Of
> course "corruption" is anyone but them getting a piece of they pie. As for
> policing local areas, the nobility have huscarles (which sometimes consist
> of entire regiments of troops), System Defense Forces, Colonial Fleets,
and
> great influence with the other local military and police forces. Nobles
> swear fealty to the Imperium and to the Imperial Nobles of higher rank
> (though AFAIK canon doesn't specify the exact lines of fealty for the
> nobility in any specific sector.)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:16:40 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Request
>>Which is exactly why people get pissy about off-topic messages from time to
>>time, and which is why if the list doesn't stay at the recent relatively low
>>level of activity I'll have no choice but to unsubscribe.
>
>Wouldn't a Traveller newsgroup help people like you?
No. Not all systems carry newsgroups, and they tend to get a _lot_ more
spam. The TML is still virtually spam-free, and our flame-wars are pretty
mild in comparison to usenet.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:13:15 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Request
>Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+ messages
>from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do you guys who don't
>check all the time ever keep up?
Delete a lot of stuff unread, and hope that people are keeping their
subject lines current.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:16:04 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: The Allure of Traveller
On 01/27/00 at 10:42 AM, "Brian Jenkins" said:
>What is it about the game that attracts you and keeps you coming
>back for more. What is the allure that traveller has for you.
Others have already answered this, but I feel compelled to testify.
I officially started role playing with first edition D&D, but
unofficially (without the benefit of knowing I was doing it) had
been role playing far longer. Thing is, though, I never much cared
for fantasy, what I liked was science fiction. So, between 74 and
77 I homebrewed my own SF games out of DND rules...not a
satisfactory thing, but the best I could think to do.
Then one Saturday morning while browsing in the back of the local
game store I ran across a little black box with red block printing.
"Ooo! TRAVELLER Science Fiction Adventures in the Far Future, now *that*
sounds promising." I said to myself as I grabbed the box. Some
good soul had opened one of the two boxes on the shelf, and soon I
was reading through the books. It took me five minutes to decide
I'd found *my* game. It's still my game. That boxed set, books and
disks, are sitting on the shelf five feet from me right now.
So, I bought it, took it home, read all three books that afternoon,
and ran a game *that* night. No, we didn't get much further than
creating characters and getting a ship, but my group of players and
I were off and running.
Brian, the first few years there wasn't an OTU. If you wanted to
play Traveller you had to build your own universe, and I did. It
was my Imperium, my Spinward Marches, my aliens, and my background
building up into a coherent story. It wasn't all that much like
what GDW started publishing, but I squeeze their stuff into my games
as best I could. Eventually, their OTU and MTU were so different
that I really couldn't use all that much of their background
material, but I could still use lots of the equipment, stars and
design sequences after I filed the numbers off. I got very good at
filing off the numbers and doing things my own way, so good that
*not* doing it seems unnatural to me now.
What brings me back to Traveller? Shoot! When it comes to
roleplaying that's all there is for me. I can politely discuss OTU
subjects with the canonists, like how many Imperial Warrents can
hide in Norris' footlocker, or hotly debate the merits of task
systems and "the damned d3", but Brian that's all just a tiny part
of what Traveller is to me. The big part, the important part, is
the games I play in and run. That part is *my* Traveller.
Folks here call me a heretic, make references to the ErisianTU, and
such kid me about how much I like FUDGE. I don't discourage those
references, to be frank it's a hoot. It doesn't matter though,
because in the end there is only Traveller. It doesn't matter to
me whether it's CT, MT, TNE, T4, GT, T5, something else, or a
combination of all the above...it's still Traveller. The games can
be set in CT-OTU, MT Rebellion, the TNE post VIRUS, M0, GT's
"Stephron in a shower", or any GM's own personal TU...and it's
*still* Traveller.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:18:46 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Robert Prior wrote:
>
> A couple of years ago there was a Canadian company that traded with both
> Cuba and the US -- they were being prosecuted in the US under a law
> (Helms-Burton maybe?) that allowed the US government to fine them, and take
> the fine out of their American assets...
>
And to me, that was a BS law! Leave it to Jesse Helms, the right-winger who
gives Republicans a bad name, to do this.
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:19:37 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: re: request
>
>Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+ messages
>from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do you guys who don't
>check all the time ever keep up?
On digest mode, it is somewhat easier. If' I'm not gonna check for a few
days, I get anyhere from 3 to 5 digests per day, and skim them quickly.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:27:06 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Different computer types (was Big Computers)
On 01/27/00 at 02:54 PM, Bruce Johnson said:
>AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH
> (sound of head banging desk)
>Would you all please STOP giving Eris evil GM ideas!!! He thinks of
>enough all on his own!
No, no! Don't listen to Bruce, keep sending in those wonderful
ideas.
It's not like I can use them on my AKUS folks, they're almost all on
the TML: Bruce, Keven, Suz, Terry and Mike, are I know. Of course,
after a year or two resting in my notebook I might be able to dust
one off without my crew all saying "Oh yeah, I remember *that* from
the TML!"
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1831
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Traveller-digest Sunday, January 30 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1832
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Request
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: Request
Re: Request
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: Request
Re: Query for Mr Plummer
Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
Re: Alvin's Posts
Re: Request
Corruption (was Re: Request)
Re: Request
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Ageing.
Re: Swine and Villains
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
PBeM Apology!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:55:56 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Request
>From: "Jory Earl"
>Subject: Re: Request
>
>Well I just read his book, "Bolo Rising" and wanted to give him a hearty
>"well done". Once picked up and opened, this book remained in my hand until
>the last page, some 5 hours later.
Drop him a line through his site (IIRC, it might have been his late
brothers). Or buy a copy for a friend - royalties are the sincerest
form of flattery and all that :)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:56:00 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>From: "Josh W. Spencer"
>Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
...
>>> its host. Cuba's economic difficulty is a great example of this.
>>
>> Interesting. I'd have put Cuba's plight down largely to 30-40
>> years of economic warfare by the U.S. and its' client states.
>>
>I don't disagree totally, but I will say that the USA's economic embargo has
>played a major role in Cuba's economic shambles, as did the departure of the
>Soviet dole. But the time has come to do to Cuba what we did to the Soviet
>Union. Even the Kremlin relented when we began to engage the Russian people
>themselves. I think that's where Canada can lend a hand in helping us deal
>with the Cuban people.
The U.S. used to get very upset when others "engaged the people Cuban
people themselves" on terms other than those dictated as acceptable to
the U.S. And the U.S. has been less than thrilled on the occasions when
Canadian policy or votes in the OAS were not those dictated by the votes
in Florida (anyone who thinks that US Cuban policy post-Missile Crisis
has actually been about the direct strategic threat from Cuba probably
believes in the Easter Bunny and black helicopters - but then, wasn't
there some loonie who talked about the invasion threat from Nicaragua?).
...
>in '82, Andropov 69 in '84 and Chernenko 73 in '85. The Old Man with the
>Beard is the only guy holding this all together, and when he dies, that's
>when Cuba will be free again. So we need to get ready.
Free _again_? You aren't by any chance actually serious, are you?
And, hey, Castro still wins on points for out-lasting so many US Presidents; he
would have had enough VP's for a decisive win if Monica hadn't been turned :>
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:28:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Request
In mail you write:
> At 16:07 1/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
>>From: Jory Earl
>>
>>
>>> Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+
>>> messages from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do you
>>> guys who don't check all the time ever keep up?
>>
>>During weekdays, I can only check maybe once a day. So I am qualified to
>>answer this question. :)
>>
>>We don't.
>>
>>Which is exactly why people get pissy about off-topic messages from time to
>>time, and which is why if the list doesn't stay at the recent relatively low
>>level of activity I'll have no choice but to unsubscribe.
>
> Wouldn't a Traveller newsgroup help people like you?
Nope. To start with, unless we had a number of people being *really*
agressive about stomping on spam, the group would be swamped with it.
And a newsgroup is *just* as prone to "off topic" posts as a mailing
list. More so, in fact, since folks will cheerfully crosspost all sorts
of stuff to a newsgroup.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:30:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Request
In mail you write:
> Yes! Wonderful series. I've tried to get my hands on everything in print
> on them since I read Keith Laumer's original "Bolo". Great idea, but would
> they really be cost-effective? Wouldn't the Third Imperium get better
> results using other means? After all, a Mark 31 Bolo is essentially a
> dreadnought on tracks.
A Mark 31 Bolo is also well above TL15!
I note from one Bolo story that a Mark *3* Bolo has 25 mm of
"durachrome" armor which is, according to the text: "proof against a
contact nuclear explosion".
At least the Mark 3 is merely a tank capable of being programmed for
things like sentry duty.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:35:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
In mail you write:
> - The concern about falling victim to email harvesters raping
> newsgroups. At least with a subscription-only mailing list, there's a
> perception that the frequency is somewhat lower.
I have several user IDs (I *am* "krypton.rain.com" :-). One is used
only for some SCA related mailing lists. Traffic levels are similar to
here. And that account has gotten something like 1 spam message per
*year*.
Another is used only on one newsgroup (alt.callahans) and on some
related mailing lists. Since there are a number of people on
alt.callahans who are downright *nasty* about hunting down spam posted
to the group, spam postings are few, and spam email to that acoount is
pretty rare.
Then there's this account. I get a fair amount of spam. Very little
seems traceable to the mailing list.
BTW, I get regular spam for users who don't exist. Some may be for
users of the system that had this domain about 10 years back (a sysop
in rain.com had all the noble gases as system names back then). I also
get spam via fidonet.org much of which is to addresses that are also 10
years old. And these are getting thru *heavy* filtering at the gateway.
So it's clear that some spammers are using lists gleaned from places
like dejanews. And others are apparently sending to "common user IDs"
at any domain they spot any traffic from.
> Suggestion: I believe it's possible to have a standard text file sent
> out to a new subscriber automatically, depending on the mailing list
> software.
Given that I do that on a mailing list I maintain on a *fidonet* system
(using Gigo to gate the messages and to do the mailing list stuff) it
*should* be doable on almost any mailing list software.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:24:59 -0500
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)"
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
> This is a recurring thread, which usually gets shot down. Some
> reasons many listmembers oppose newsgroups are:
Actually, this idea received a LOT of support if you were reading the right
thread. And some people were paying attention...
Stay tuned.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:36:10 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>From: Glenn St-Germain
>Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>
>>>its host. Cuba's economic difficulty is a great example of this.
>>
>> Interesting. I'd have put Cuba's plight down largely to 30-40
>>years of economic warfare by the U.S. and its' client states.
>
>The US sanctions against Cuba affect only the U.S.; U.S. client
>states, such as Canada*, are still free to trade with Cuba, as is
>the rest of the world. Yet the Cuban economy is still a shambles.
>Cuba could thrive on trade with the rest of the Carribean, Central
>America, and South America, if it had an economic system that would
>allow it to do so.
i) Get a grip - OAS countries that played nice with Cuba learned better;
and the US didn't back authoritarians, drug-dealers and murderers for the
sheer fun of it.
ii) Cuba's economy is such that its output could be most profitably sold
in the developed West - trying to do business with impoverished and/or
inappropriate trade partners would not have helped.
>(* - said tongue-in-cheek)
It's pretty close to the truth; OTOH, at least we're not a satellite :)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:42:10 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Request
I'm fortunate I can skim-read 1500 words a minute. I only stop on messages
with certain keywords that catch my eye. Of course, tables charts and
equations are always keys..:)
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Prior"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: Request
> >Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+
messages
> >from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do you guys who don't
> >check all the time ever keep up?
>
> Delete a lot of stuff unread, and hope that people are keeping their
> subject lines current.
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:37:24 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Query for Mr Plummer
Via electronic medium on 1/25/00 11:57 PM, aramis@gci.net wrote:
> Obviously, there seems to be a lot of work, and I've yet to see any other
> comment upon it...
I haven't commented because I'm behind on my reading and trying to catch up.
I am flagging every one of Alvins (not to to even mention all the great
Leonard/Chris/Michel/etc. postings that have accumulated in my mail box
while I've been off), as after reading halfway through the first three and
flagging them, I realised I should swipe them all for personal game use.
They are fantastic, are you fishing for a job or contract there? ;) You go
Alvin, you're on a roll.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:43:50 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
Steven Hudson wrote:
>
> >From: "Josh W. Spencer"
<>
> ...
> >in '82, Andropov 69 in '84 and Chernenko 73 in '85. The Old Man with the
> >Beard is the only guy holding this all together, and when he dies, that's
> >when Cuba will be free again. So we need to get ready.
>
> Free _again_? You aren't by any chance actually serious, are you?
As far as I can tell, there are a couple of advantages, and at least one
disadvantage, to living under a traditional "banana republic" style
dictatorship ("authoritarian" government), as opposed to a totalitarian
(communist, fascist, National Socialist) regime.
The advantages:
1. Totalitarians tend to be more efficient in suppressing dissent.
2. "Authoritarian" governments don't seem to spend much effort to
convince the oppressed masses that said oppression is for the masses'
own good. Totalitarians tend to expend quite a bit of energy telling
the proles just how lucky they are to be living in a [fill-in-the-blank,
based on ideology] paradise.
The disadvantage:
Totalitarian governments do tend to put a bit more effort into
modernization, compared to "authoritarian" governments, albeit with
mixed success.
Based on this back-of-the-envelope analysis, Cuba under Bastista was
_marginally_ freer than under Castro. Of course, the relative level of
freedom between the two regimes is best measured from the comfort of my
living room, rather than "up close and personal."
ObTrav: Governments of various types (3, 9, A, and B) can be
interpreted as authoritarian or totalitarian regimes. A referee can add
a bit of local color, to help the PCs figure out the exact nature of the
government, by manipulating the relative level of ideology-based
propaganda.
<>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:47:30 -0800
From: Justice Hypercleats
Subject: Re: Alvin's Posts
Via electronic medium on 1/26/00 12:17 PM, tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> I can't believe people are complaining-- I've saved every post.
Actually, there was only one "complaint" I saw so far (I am behind), and
even it was more like: "Gee, that's an serious amount of work for a mailing
list".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:20:11 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Request
He has a website? If so, where?
As to buying copies, sure, if I had the cash.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Hudson"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Request
> >From: "Jory Earl"
> >Subject: Re: Request
> >
> >Well I just read his book, "Bolo Rising" and wanted to give him a hearty
> >"well done". Once picked up and opened, this book remained in my hand
until
> >the last page, some 5 hours later.
>
> Drop him a line through his site (IIRC, it might have been his late
> brothers). Or buy a copy for a friend - royalties are the sincerest
> form of flattery and all that :)
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:02:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Corruption (was Re: Request)
> I am forced to wonder with only slow X-boat traffic, how the Third Imperium
> can maintain it's control of out-lying systems/subsectors? Surely the
> Imperial Navy isn't so large they can police everywhere? From the Adventure
> modules I've seen, there hasn't been a lot of 'corruption' on the local
> government scene, as compared to what I think it probably should be; after
> all, power corrupts and everyone wants a piece of the pie.
Keep in mind that as long as the local government pays its taxes on
time and adheres to the (rather small number of) Imperial laws, the
Imperium doesn't *care* about how local affairs are handled.
Heck, several government codes pretty much *institionalize* what other
types of government consider "corruption".
Being corrupt and being under Imperial control are disjoint properties.
that is, one has almost no effect on the other.
You have to get to the point of legalized slavery or "open" support of
pirates before "local corruption" conflicts with Imperial law.
Heck, that may be how many pirates work. They are actually
(unofficially) supported by the local government. Say the mainworld in
one hex acts as a haven for pirates operating in adjoining hexes. As
long as the pirates don't take any ships in the "haven" system, and
don't boast too much, both the government and the local businesses will
cheerfully buy the cargoes and charge for supplies and repairs without
asking too many questions.
But getting back to more "traditional" forms of "corruption", try
things like these.
Next time the PCs land on a planet with a "xxx Bureaucracy" type
government (or any of several other types) with a *high* law level,
and they have to deal with some clerk, have a list of the *official*
fee schedule for "bribes" of various sorts posted on the wall!
You'll have fun drawing up the possible "special services" fees and
shock a few players. Especially when they find out that the fees are
fixed. No paying more and you get laughed at for trying to pay less.
In fact *trying* to pay more may get you in trouble.
At lower law levels, bribes, if part of the system, will be more
flexible.
Just remember that "bribes" are *normal* in some cultures. Just as much
as they are forbidden in others.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:23:03 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Request
Hey, could anyone here do stats for a Bolo Mark 31, using like FF&S or
Starship tables?
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: Request
> In mail you write:
>
> > Yes! Wonderful series. I've tried to get my hands on everything in
print
> > on them since I read Keith Laumer's original "Bolo". Great idea, but
would
> > they really be cost-effective? Wouldn't the Third Imperium get better
> > results using other means? After all, a Mark 31 Bolo is essentially a
> > dreadnought on tracks.
>
> A Mark 31 Bolo is also well above TL15!
>
> I note from one Bolo story that a Mark *3* Bolo has 25 mm of
> "durachrome" armor which is, according to the text: "proof against a
> contact nuclear explosion".
>
> At least the Mark 3 is merely a tank capable of being programmed for
> things like sentry duty.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:59:07 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>From: Robert Prior
>Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
...
>A couple of years ago there was a Canadian company that traded with both
>Cuba and the US -- they were being prosecuted in the US under a law
>(Helms-Burton maybe?) that allowed the US government to fine them, and take
>the fine out of their American assets...
I thought (and I have to admit that I was reading both Toronto's national
newspaper and the FP at the time) that they only got as far as acting on the
portions that could bar execs (and their families?) of those companies from
the US - they actually stopped a foray to Disneyworld, IIRC.
Now, for porting political acumen of that calibre to the OTU, imagine
the brilliance of, say, Santanocheev, in an Archduke or Sector Duke who
has political decisions to make that are as complex as fighting the 5FW
was. Now, how to saddle the PC's with the resulting mess? :>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 05:00:15 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
- -----Original Message-----
From: Swordy (Colin Michael)
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 30 January 2000 03:31
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
>> This is a recurring thread, which usually gets shot down. Some
>> reasons many listmembers oppose newsgroups are:
>
>Actually, this idea received a LOT of support if you were reading the right
>thread. And some people were paying attention...
>
>Stay tuned.
Oooh, If you're thinking of setting one up I'm all for it. I also have a
thought. Could we have it so the we could post binaries, or have a seperate
trav-binaries NG, as we could then post spreadsheets, deckplans and other
assorted trav related goodies there. After all, you can read the header
before downloading...
Just a thought...
Matt
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Colin Michael, WebDev
>www.downport.com
>The Traveller Domain
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:03:07 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Ageing.
I know there's a lot of ageing house rules out there. (Mine is it is
defered one term for each TL after 9)
But the effects of aging are prety harsh. Using CT I just generated a PC
who had the misfortune to have a Strength of 4, at age 34 he had a roughly
50% chance of losing 25% of his strength. A similiar PC with a strength of A
would only lose 10%, and he's already got a good stat!
Why don't PC's lose 10% at aging and it adds up, it would be an easy
thing to keep track of and whenever you went under a whole number you lose
another point.
Thoughts anyone?
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 05:12:08 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:46:46 -0500, "Chris Seamans"
wrote:
>From: Pete
>
>> Anyone looking for an evil villain need look no further than
>> the character Mason in this book. He was one of Lector's early
>> victims who survived. He was obscenely wealthy, deranged, and
>> paralyzed.
>
>Yes, a modified version of Mason Verger would make a very good villain in a
>Trav campaign. He would make an excellent degenerate and depraved noble, and
>he would feel right at home in a "Dark Imperium"-style setting.
Or an adventure run during the last week of October.
>A variant of Lecter himself would make an excellent villain as well. A
>single Lecter, with his incredible mental abilities and vast range of skills
>would be more than a match for most parties. Lecter isn't the kind of guy
>I'd like to be stuck in Jump for a week with.
I agree. However, I doubt my abilities are up to running him as an
NPC. (But, see below)
>The secret serial killer network which serves as something of a backdrop,
>specifically in Red Dragon and to a lesser extent in Silence of the Lambs
>could be very interesting as well. Imagine the sheer horror which the PCs
>might be faced with if they stumbled on a key to interpret just one small
>part of the secret language used. This would be especially shocking when put
>into the proper perspective. There is a hell of a lot of information packed
>in each individual Xboat, and so many of them wind their way through the
>Imperium...
I bet it would be easy for a serial killer to operate in the 3I. With
the vast population there are probably a million murders a day. How
difficult would it be to even discover a planet-hopping murder? He
could be three parsecs away a week after killing a victim. Chasing him
down would be a good adventure or even a campaign. The hunt for the
killer across a sector or two. Always a step behind and not knowing
where he'll strike next.
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the
lash." - Winston Churchill
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:28:15 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
On 01/27/00 at 10:45 PM, "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" said:
>I liked the fact that it came *without* a background. In 1979 I was
>fifteen and a member of the Sci-Fi Book Club, reading everything I could
>get my hands on. When I found out that I could play the story lines that
>I was reading, I was hooked. Foundation, Stainless Steel Rat, Retief,
>Space Viking, Paratime Police, Ringworld, Gateway... Any story, any time.
Exactly!
>Not to mention the fact that the chargen system was a game in itself.
>Hundreds of hours of solo play and planning.
You know this is an aspect that Marc and the rest of GDW seemed to
forget about. Many a time I'd pull out my books and roll up
characters and send them through careers creating stories for them.
When I couldn't find players to play with I could create a crew,
build a ship and trade from system to system creating *them* as I
went. You couldn't do that with any other rpg.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:44:35 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>From: Glenn St-Germain
>Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
...
>>A couple of years ago there was a Canadian company that traded with both
>>Cuba and the US -- they were being prosecuted in the US under a law
>>(Helms-Burton maybe?) that allowed the US government to fine them, and take
>>the fine out of their American assets...
>
>If I recall correctly, that was nothing more than a threat -- the
>possibility of retaliatory action is too great. Besides, there are a
>lot of companies in the western hemisphere, particularly those in
>Latin America, that have no assets in the US, so they'd be unaffected.
>When Cuba was a Soviet client state, most of its international trade
>was with the USSR and the Soviet Bloc. Now that the USSR is gone, Cuba
>has virtually no international trade, because its economic system isn't
>amenable to it. Blaming the USA for Cuba's woes is placing the blame
>too far north.
Cuba has a fairish chunk of international trade and investment now,
but not enough; the US right in particular waxes eloquent (& ignorant,
as usual) about that. I suppose that they're a bit choked that they
can't rely on their supposed allies to obey their orders.
In any case, eventually they'll have to decide whether they want US
investment or not, and it's hard not to conclude that they need it if
reasonable terms can be found.
Given that the need for US trade for Cuba is a truism in the business
community, one finds oneself wondering how the forced prevention of
said interaction isn't _someone's_ responsibility?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:46:14 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Via electronic medium on 1/28/00 8:05 PM, cos90@powersurfr.com wrote:
>> At the risk of starting a big flame war here, I find your attitude
>> really offensive.
Uh Oh.
> As a Canadian, I find your comments to be borderline offensive
Uh huh, it's smoking! Hey, Why bother being offended? Relax, they're just
opinions. Somebody got some water?
;)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:54:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Tom Ellis
Subject: PBeM Apology!
I owe some people an apology. Over two years ago, while I was on TML
before (just recently resubbed), I started what looked to be an exciting
PBeM campaign. Well, we'd hardly gotten off the ground when all SORTS of
things started happening to me IRL. I won't go into the dirty details,
and all ended well, but I dropped the ball bigtime, with no explaination
to the group.
You know who you are if you still read this list. Feel free to contact
me.
That said, I would love to referee a PBeM Trav campaign, and this time
I'll stick with it ;) This time I'm thinking of augmenting email with
occaisional sessions in a private chatroom for some realtime play...
Tom Ellis
tellis@telerama.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1832
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Traveller-digest Sunday, January 30 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1833
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: This Happens All The Time...
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: The d3 Question
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Reply time on posts/Ditzie S
Re: How small can a sophont be?
William Keith site URL?
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: Swine and Villains
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Request
Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
Re: Re Computer Interfaces
Re: Request
Re: Request
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: How small can a sophont be?
The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
RollMaster/RuleMonster (was: Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Re Interfaces
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:55:23 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: This Happens All The Time...
Via electronic medium on 1/28/00 11:15 PM, gmgoffin@pacbell.net wrote:
>> I got no replies the last time.
> We all thought someone else would reply, I suppose. Now you'll probably
> get a hundred replies.
There must be a name for that type of exchange. And this is the list most
likely to have a member who knows. So what is it? ;)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:05:35 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
Via electronic medium on 1/29/00 2:26 AM, rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:
> Pig, both domestic and wild are opportunistic omnivores. Anyone
> who thinks they're a herbivore can come and watch my old man's
> fight over bits of dead chicken. Fortunately they don't seemn to
> equate the live chooks with the corpses, otherwise my mum would
> have a lot less chickens.
>
Oh, I've raised pigs, I know! But as you also noticed, they don't go huntin'
chickens either. They will tear it up on a snake though. But they mainly ate
acorns and regular corn. Opportunistic omnivores sounds reasonable.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:20:46 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: The d3 Question
Via electronic medium on 1/29/00 7:02 AM, pnewman@gci.net wrote:
> If you like unusual dice I reccommend the 50 sided
> (about $5) and 7 sided (about $ 5/pair, one black &
> one white) that Gamescience used to make. Gamescience
> and/or Zocchi Distibutors (no longer owned by Lou
> Zocchi) may still have some. Seven siders look like
> the Pentagon with the top & bottom being the 6th &
> 7th sides. Fifty siders look like an 8 sider that has
> each face divided vertically 12 or 13 times until they
> resemble a top. If anyone can suggest a good source
> for 18, 26, & 36 sided dice please let me know.
They (The Game Preserve) had the 7sided there, and a spindle type that I
thought was 34, but maybe it was the 36 you mention. They also had a variety
of 6ers with glyphs, or odd numbering/lettering schemes, and the ubiquitous
100 sider. ;) But I have sort of a preference for the true platonic solids.
And my 30 sider. Ugly color though.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:16:14 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
At 7:43 PM +0100 1/29/2000, Ingo Heinscher wrote:
>At 09:53 1/29/00 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>>Of course, it means you CAN'T use the jump space maps
>>for real-space, STL
>
>Oh, I think you could use them for short-range STL travel: That is why I
>used that "crumpled table cover" comparison (exp?). If the actual length of
>a jump distance doesn't vary too much, stars that are close on a jump space
>map are also close in normal space. You would have to adjust travel times
>by a percentage that depensds on the region of jump space where you travel.
The problem with this is that given the size of the Imperium, there are
very likely places where an STL shortcut may actually be faster than a
trip by jump drive. This would be something the Imperium would have
noticed and which should have been exploited...
Bolie IV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 01:23:56 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: Reply time on posts/Ditzie S
>From: "Jory Earl"
>Subject: Re: Request
>
>Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+ messages
>from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do you guys who don't
>check all the time ever keep up?
>___________________________________________________________
> J-Man
Try the digest option. When I have that, I get about 4-9 email digests per
day. This does two things. The first is it makes me at least skim every
message on the list. (Which has opened my eyes on a few topics I might have
otherwise missed due to mis-labeled subject fields.) The second one: I only
post I REALLY want to post a reply, because I have to edit a digest down to
only the item I want to address in order to reply appropriately.
Overall, I like it and would suggest people try it if they have overfilled
mail boxes.
Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
P.S. I have never met Ditzie, but I have heard the rumors. I am familiar
with FS weapon systems, but i can't publically admit that without the
lawyers crying...
:)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:41:42 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
On 01/28/00 at 04:45 PM, "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" said:
>As far as intelligence in herbivores go, nobody has mentioned swine. Are
>they omnivores? I know they can and will eat nearly anything, but I
>thought they were technically an herbivore.
I don't know about technically, but from observation I'd say they are omnivores.
>They are very intelligent. Of course their hooves make tool use problematic. ;)
Probably the big reason they aren't on top of the food chain.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:51:51 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: William Keith site URL?
>From: "Jory Earl"
>Subject: Re: Request
>
>He has a website? If so, where?
Sorry, lost the URL a browser "upgrade" or two ago. IIRC, it was
connected to a B-tech site, and had some "Warstrider" content.
Anyone with the later Bolo anthologies should have at least the
publishers URL to hand.
NB: I've confirmed from records that it was WHK's site.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:47:57 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Via electronic medium on 1/29/00 10:43 AM, Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de
wrote:
> Oh, I think you could use them for short-range STL travel: That is why I
> used that "crumpled table cover" comparison (exp?). If the actual length of
> a jump distance doesn't vary too much, stars that are close on a jump space
> map are also close in normal space. You would have to adjust travel times
> by a percentage that depensds on the region of jump space where you travel.
Wow, I'm liking that. And if it fluctuated or rippled like water, that would
explain minor variations that come up on the die roll for amount of time.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:52:38 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
>From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
>Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
...
>I bet it would be easy for a serial killer to operate in the 3I. With
>the vast population there are probably a million murders a day. How
Heck, that sounds like the original Porozlo :>
>difficult would it be to even discover a planet-hopping murder? He
>could be three parsecs away a week after killing a victim. Chasing him
>down would be a good adventure or even a campaign. The hunt for the
>killer across a sector or two. Always a step behind and not knowing
>where he'll strike next.
Depends on what their transport method is. I wonder if the best wouldn't
be a combination of paid/working passages on tramps, plus the occasional
small liner. Cash might be a real issue, unless that's a motive/side-effect
for that sort of thing.
But why not think big? Not that it could work, but you could always try
selling people stock in that huge new lanthanum find in Indonesia...
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:48:33 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
On 01/28/00 at 04:49 PM, "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" said:
>Via electronic medium on 1/21/00 6:09 AM, jenry023@student.liu.se wrote:
>> Small birds (the size that would fit in your hand) have (if my sources
>> are correct) been known to use tools, small branches, to make holes in
>> paper/plastic coverings of milk bottles, in order to reach the milk
>> inside.
>> Can anyone confirm (or not, as it might be) this?
>Not exactly, but I know some birds actually weave their nests, and that
>seems to me to be pretty complicated. But then we are talking about
>single refined abilities.
Yes, but is it learned or instinctive behavior? Some species of
bird will dip a small stick or piece of straw into an insect nest to
capture, or at least stir up, the insects. No one seriously
believes that these birds *learn* this behavior.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:54:46 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
>Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
...
>>Not to mention the fact that the chargen system was a game in itself.
>>Hundreds of hours of solo play and planning.
>
>You know this is an aspect that Marc and the rest of GDW seemed to
>forget about. Many a time I'd pull out my books and roll up
>characters and send them through careers creating stories for them.
They might not have _known_, but they must have suspected, as they
kept the system essentially as is for a fairly long time. They could
have switched to a point system (a la Aftermath! or the article in
Dragon #59 that plausibly handled the conversion - at a huge cost in
built-in character background) by the since-popular method of issuing
a new edition or a special rules book with the options padding out the
vital new stuff... (RollMaster, anyone?).
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:54:14 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Request
Via electronic medium on 1/29/00 1:17 PM, robert_prior@sympatico.ca wrote:
> I frequently see replies before the original message,
Temporal deviant.
;)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:57:05 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Macs and Command Lines [ot]
Via electronic medium on 1/29/00 2:31 PM, frankie@mundens.gen.nz wrote:
>> I was thinking "Tele-Type User Interface." You know, with an acoustic
>> coupler running at 1200 baud or so. Perfect for playing "Hammurabi."
>
> And I was thinking Thought Transference User Interface
>
I think I like both of these answers better than the "real" one.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:03:20 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Re Computer Interfaces
Via electronic medium on 1/29/00 3:34 PM, shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
> Actually, if they see via echolocation, then displays would likely use
> sonic holograms. Basicly, the same sort of tech that allows noise
> cancelling (which we have now) can pick up their ranging pulses and
> return proper "echoes" for things that aren't there while suppressing
> real echoes. For safety, I expect the display would have a deliberate
> "surface discontinuity" similar to a thin plate of some sonicly
> transparent material to remind them not to try walking or reach thru it.
Monitor for Dolphins? Are there bat type aliens in any canon (or non)?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:14:04 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Request
Via electronic medium on 1/29/00 7:42 PM, j-man@iname.com wrote:
> I'm fortunate I can skim-read 1500 words a minute. I only stop on messages
> with certain keywords that catch my eye. Of course, tables charts and
> equations are always keys..:)
Ah, so /that's what you're looking for eh? I have a particular affection for
random encounter/event/etc tables myself. ;)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 02:30:47 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Request
Yes, I am a table and chart freak. I even designed charts in Gamma world
for creating various sized garbage piles. :)
As for formulas and stuff, I've gotten some really awesome stuff from this
list.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 2:14 AM
Subject: Re: Request
>
> Ah, so /that's what you're looking for eh? I have a particular affection
for
> random encounter/event/etc tables myself. ;)
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:59:23 +1100
From: "AB"
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
I had always imagined that 2D jumpspace maps were produced by the Imperial
Grand Survey as a simplified 2D projection of the N-space reality.
The maps are produced by the IGS using a complicated topological projection
algorithm.
These maps are intended to be used as a 'quick reference' for planning
routes; showing non-technical personnel (such as passengers and sector
admirals) where the ship is going or where the Zhodani ships are coming
from. The bridge crew would probably use a more sophisticated 3D plotting
tank for any serious work.
The IGS 2D Hex maps are gauranteed accurate for every world for a distance
of up to six parsecs, but beyond that their accuracy degrades.
ie: The real-world explanation applied to the Traveller Universe.
But I like your explanation better and I think I'll adopt it.
-AB
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:34:22 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
Another piece of evidence(?) about the omnivorous nature of
pigs/swine/wild boar:
There are a number of sheep farms in the central North Island of New
Zealand that were abadoned as unecomonical because of the wild
pigs in the bush they bordered onto. At night the pigs would come
out of the bush during lambing season and kill then eat the lambs
(and any ewes stupid enough to argue about it). Several methods
were tried in an effort to control them, the most effective being a form
of phosphous poison. Part of its effectiveness was that when a pig
died from it other pigs would eat the corpse, and also die.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:37:24 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
On 29 Jan 00, at 22:05, Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:
> Oh, I've raised pigs, I know! But as you also noticed, they don't go
> huntin' chickens either. They will tear it up on a snake though. But they
> mainly ate acorns and regular corn. Opportunistic omnivores sounds
> reasonable.
I've heard about the snakes, but never seen it, there being no snakes
(of the reptilian, legless type, anyway) in NZ.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:42:13 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
On 29 Jan 00, at 22:54, Steven Hudson wrote:
> They might not have _known_, but they must have suspected, as they
> kept the system essentially as is for a fairly long time. They could
> have switched to a point system (a la Aftermath! or the article in
> Dragon #59 that plausibly handled the conversion - at a huge cost in
> built-in character background) by the since-popular method of issuing a
> new edition or a special rules book with the options padding out the vital
> new stuff... (RollMaster, anyone?).
In this context I've always prefered RuleMonster, myself.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:42:13 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
On 30 Jan 00, at 0:41, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> >They are very intelligent. Of course their hooves make tool use
> >problematic. ;)
>
> Probably the big reason they aren't on top of the food chain.
I'd say it's more likely to be because it's too much like hard work :)
I've seen some quite imaginative things done by pigs with their noses
(mainly to assist in escape attempts), but in general they'd much
rather recline in a nice muddy wallow than do anything involving effort.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:43:56 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
There are a number of sheep farms in the central North Island of New
Zealand that were abadoned as unecomonical because of the wild
pigs in the bush they bordered onto. At night the pigs would come
out of the bush during lambing season and kill then eat the lambs
(and any ewes stupid enough to argue about it). Several methods
were tried in an effort to control them, the most effective being a form
of phosphous poison. Part of its effectiveness was that when a pig
died from it other pigs would eat the corpse, and also die.
Rupert Boleyn
They are weirdly resistant to hydrostatic shock too, a bullet will often
not put one down but an arrow seems to kill them quickly. They literally
pump the blood out like a fountain.
A good critter for traveller would be some nasty that had a body that
was designed to withstand hydrostatic shock to a huge degree, the PCs pump
all sorts of bullets into it to no effect and a local kills it with a bow.
Then have them meet another without the local around.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 02:12:47 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: RollMaster/RuleMonster (was: Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> On 29 Jan 00, at 22:54, Steven Hudson wrote:
<>
>
> >(RollMaster, anyone?).
>
> In this context I've always prefered RuleMonster, myself.
Of course, there's the most important book in the game system: Dice
Law.
A number of years ago, I _briefly_ considered Space Master as an
alternative to Traveller (this was pre-MT). Oddly enough, this
contemplation of heresy coincided with a keg party on my dorm floor, and
lasted about eight hours longer than the keg. ;-)
OTOH, I do enjoy Silent Death, which is (more-or-less) set in the Space
Master universe.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:13:17 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
>From: Black ICE
>Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
...
Whaddya mean "with ObTrav"? My original "Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani
loons!!!" post was over 80% Traveller-related! It's hardly my fault if
you guys can't maintain your focus :>
>Based on this back-of-the-envelope analysis, Cuba under Bastista was
>_marginally_ freer than under Castro. Of course, the relative level of
>freedom between the two regimes is best measured from the comfort of my
>living room, rather than "up close and personal."
That's not worthy of being designated a sophistry. The merely authoritarian
regime in 1980's El Salvador certainly murdered more people than Fidel's Cuba
ever did, and excluding fruit-loops who don't understand "secure air space"
that client state also killed more US citizens.
>ObTrav: Governments of various types (3, 9, A, and B) can be
>interpreted as authoritarian or totalitarian regimes. A referee can add
>a bit of local color, to help the PCs figure out the exact nature of the
>government, by manipulating the relative level of ideology-based propaganda.
Think of the fun (ref's def'n :> ) that could be had with PC's who simply
don't listen to warnings about what's outside the extraterritoriality line:
let them cause their usual trouble and wake up in the world of Heinlein's
"Revolt in 2100" :>
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:17:21 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:
> They are weirdly resistant to hydrostatic shock too, a bullet will often
> not put one down but an arrow seems to kill them quickly. They literally
> pump the blood out like a fountain.
?!? Hydrostatic shock.... Damn and here I was thinking it was the size anddepth
of the wound channel. Or possibly it is a factor of the arrow allowing
the channel to enlarge it self as the critter thrashes around.
In my experience hunting wild pigs a marlin .44 lever action and/or .45acp
seemed to be the best bet.
- --
The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We
have to make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door.
Knowledge isn't always a blessing;
sometimes, it's damnation.
Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:19:35 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Interfaces
>> > >Text User Interface
>> > >Graphical User Interface
>> > >3 Dimensional User Interface
>> > >Audible Text User Interface
>> > >
>> > >I'm right so far, eh? But TTUI has me stumped.
>> >
>> > Hmm, perhaps "Touchable" Text User Interface, eg Braille Keyboards and
>> > output...
>>
>> I was thinking "Tele-Type User Interface." You know, with an acoustic
>> coupler running at 1200 baud or so. Perfect for playing "Hammurabi."
>
>And I was thinking Thought Transference User Interface
Thought tansfer devices don't happen IMTU... That's what psionicists are
for. Which brings to mind an image derived from Star Trek...
Zhodani standing between two bodies, one old and decrepit, and soon to die,
the other young and nubile (a clone of the first), transferring the mind
and memory patterns from one to the other...
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 03:15:53 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
On 01/29/00 at 10:54 PM, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) said:
>>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
>>Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>...
>>>Not to mention the fact that the chargen system was a game in itself.
>>>Hundreds of hours of solo play and planning.
>>
>>You know this is an aspect that Marc and the rest of GDW seemed to
>>forget about. Many a time I'd pull out my books and roll up
>>characters and send them through careers creating stories for them.
> They might not have _known_, but they must have suspected, as they kept
>the system essentially as is for a fairly long time.
Oh, the solo possibilities were explicitly mentioned in B1 so I'm
sure they *knew*. It just seemed to me that MT, TNE and T4 became
less and less solo friendly. Maybe it was just my perception.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:26:10 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>Oh, the solo possibilities were explicitly mentioned in B1 so I'm
>sure they *knew*. It just seemed to me that MT, TNE and T4 became
>less and less solo friendly. Maybe it was just my perception.
>
>Eris
Err, I'm doing Safari Ship as we speak! But the pirates who are my long
running nemeses have caught my PC eight hours out from the gas giant at
Noctocol in their Type P and I'm wondering how to adjudicate a surrender.
jim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 03:24:32 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
On 01/30/00 at 08:42 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>> >They are very intelligent. Of course their hooves make tool use
>> >problematic. ;)
>>
>> Probably the big reason they aren't on top of the food chain.
>I'd say it's more likely to be because it's too much like hard work :)
>I've seen some quite imaginative things done by pigs with their noses
>(mainly to assist in escape attempts), but in general they'd much rather
>recline in a nice muddy wallow than do anything involving effort.
And that differs from many human couch potatoes?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 03:34:18 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
On 01/30/00 at 12:17 AM, Evyn MacDude said:
>> They are weirdly resistant to hydrostatic shock too, a bullet will often
>> not put one down but an arrow seems to kill them quickly. They literally
>> pump the blood out like a fountain.
>?!? Hydrostatic shock.... Damn and here I was thinking it was the size
>anddepth of the wound channel. Or possibly it is a factor of the arrow
>allowing the channel to enlarge it self as the critter thrashes around.
>In my experience hunting wild pigs a marlin .44 lever action and/or
>.45acp seemed to be the best bet.
Twelve gauge shotgun loaded with double ought buckshot *and* a pack
of hounds. Of course, when I was a youngster that's what we used
when hunting *anything* all the way down to rabbits and squirels.
Okay, maybe not 00 buck for the squirels.
Let's see, it's been 32 years since my last hunting trip. To be
honest, I don't miss them one little bit.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1833
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Traveller-digest Sunday, January 30 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1834
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: The d3 Question
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: RollMaster/RuleMonster
Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: RollMaster/RuleMonster
Re: Ditzie S (was Reply time on posts/)
Re: The d3 Question
Re: RollMaster/RuleMonster
Re: Swine and Villains
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 03:44:21 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: The d3 Question
On 01/29/00 at 06:02 AM, Peter Newman said:
>> My FLGS in Fresno (The Game Preserve) had them once when I was in there. I
>> should have bought them, but I was getting GT: First In and Far Trader and
>> was nearly tapped out. Had to eat. I've seen them elsewhere, maybe you can
>> get them on the net. Is Chessex on-line? I've also seen blanks that you
>> could fill in. Only sixers though, a blank ico or dody would be really cool.
>Yes Chessex is on line at www.chessex.com
>but I could not find 3 sided dice in a cursory search
>there. IIRC Chessex makes (or made) 3 sided dice in 16mm,
>opaque, numbered, square cornered, round edged in six or
>seven colors. They retail for about $0.40 each
My less more than cursory search at the chessex site didn't turn up
any references to d3's at all. I couldn't find them at Crazy
Egor's, Titan, or DragonScroll.
I think you folks are pulling my leg.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 01:56:17 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
>Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>
>>Oh, the solo possibilities were explicitly mentioned in B1 so I'm
...
> Err, I'm doing Safari Ship as we speak! But the pirates who are my long
>running nemeses have caught my PC eight hours out from the gas giant at
>Noctocol in their Type P and I'm wondering how to adjudicate a surrender.
Tell `em that if they come quietly you'll put in a good word for them?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 01:56:31 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
...
>Oh, the solo possibilities were explicitly mentioned in B1 so I'm
>sure they *knew*. It just seemed to me that MT, TNE and T4 became
>less and less solo friendly. Maybe it was just my perception.
You've played the later versions?
Hey, everybody, Eris is a _conformist_!!
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:03:43 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>>>Oh, the solo possibilities were explicitly mentioned in B1 so I'm
>...
>> Err, I'm doing Safari Ship as we speak! But the pirates who are my
long
>>running nemeses have caught my PC eight hours out from the gas giant at
>>Noctocol in their Type P and I'm wondering how to adjudicate a surrender.
>
> Tell `em that if they come quietly you'll put in a good word for them?
Yeah right, I'll unleash the majestic wrath of the unholy Safari Ship!
Their puny corsair will tremble when we turn the mighty turret 'o death on
them . . .
. . . hey, has that thing got any weapons in it? Woops!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 04:09:29 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
On 01/30/00 at 01:56 AM, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) said:
>>Oh, the solo possibilities were explicitly mentioned in B1 so I'm
>>sure they *knew*. It just seemed to me that MT, TNE and T4 became
>>less and less solo friendly. Maybe it was just my perception.
> You've played the later versions?
I've played them all.
> Hey, everybody, Eris is a _conformist_!!
Hee! If you don't *know* the canon you can't reject it. Isn't that
the essence of heresy?
>The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its
>Product"
Like that. High Guard is *one* of its products and not an
especially good product at that. ;-p
Eris,
the conformist...nah, that just doesn't have the same ring to it.
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:09:14 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
At 21:43 1/29/00 -0600, you wrote:
>ObTrav: Governments of various types (3, 9, A, and B) can be
>interpreted as authoritarian or totalitarian regimes. A referee can add
>a bit of local color, to help the PCs figure out the exact nature of the
>government, by manipulating the relative level of ideology-based
>propaganda.
Would't an anti-Imperial ideology (which could, at least by claim,threaten
the Imperium's base of power) be suppressed by the nobility and the IN?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:09:05 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
At 18:27 1/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
>>Wouldn't a Traveller newsgroup help people like you?
>
> Boy, we have really got to come up with a good text-only FAQ that
>gets sent out to new subscribers, and maybe posted to the list once a
>month or so ...
(snip)
:)
Hey, calm yourself! Was just a question.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:09:25 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
At 22:47 1/29/00 -0800, you wrote:
>> Oh, I think you could use them for short-range STL travel: That is why I
>> used that "crumpled table cover" comparison (exp?). If the actual length of
>> a jump distance doesn't vary too much, stars that are close on a jump space
>> map are also close in normal space. You would have to adjust travel times
>> by a percentage that depensds on the region of jump space where you travel.
>
>Wow, I'm liking that. And if it fluctuated or rippled like water, that would
>explain minor variations that come up on the die roll for amount of time.
This would be possible, but I personally would prefer to make jumpspace
"stable".
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:09:10 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
At 22:24 1/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
>> This is a recurring thread, which usually gets shot down. Some
>> reasons many listmembers oppose newsgroups are:
>
>Actually, this idea received a LOT of support if you were reading the right
>thread. And some people were paying attention...
Okay, does anyone want my draft for a possible RFD (rec.games.frp.traveller) ?
(RFD=Request for discussion, first step on creating a newsgroup in the "big
eight" hierarchy)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:09:17 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
At 23:16 1/29/00 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>
>>Oh, I think you could use them for short-range STL travel: That is why I
>>used that "crumpled table cover" comparison (exp?). If the actual length of
>>a jump distance doesn't vary too much, stars that are close on a jump space
>>map are also close in normal space. You would have to adjust travel times
>>by a percentage that depensds on the region of jump space where you travel.
>
>The problem with this is that given the size of the Imperium, there are
>very likely places where an STL shortcut may actually be faster than a
>trip by jump drive. This would be something the Imperium would have
>noticed and which should have been exploited...
One question. Why should someone _use_ (or even mention) such "reverse
wormholes"?
I mean, from an economic standpoint, it would be neccessary for the
distance to be cutted to be at least 3,26/0.9=3.6 years to take,
assuming the minimum distance between two points jointed by such a
shortcut
is about one parsec. (Which is rather an optimistic estimation.)
Thus, to make such a shortcut economically interesting, it had to link
two points which are, using the jump drive, at least as long away from
each other: That's, using a jump-1 drive and a week of refueling and
repairs between the jumps, at least 86.4 jumps! The probblem here is
that the jump ship had about 86 systems
during its journey where it could earn its bank payroll, while the STL
ship has earned just one cargo payment. And jump drive is not _that_
expensive... even if you take into account the higher crew cost and
lower cargo capacity of the FTL ship.
This becomes even more serious with the availability of higher jump
numbers. With a jump-4 (Xboat) available,
the shortcut would have to pass a distance (in "jump space") of 344
parsecs (more than 600 via Xboat network). Even a private information
courier would be more cost effective via jump drive.
Ok, there is the military aspect. Here, it is not necessary for the
shortcut to be economic. This might indeed be a problem. For a
large-scale-war lasting at least four years (which one of the opponents
would have to know at the beginning of it).
(In middle-scale-wars, the strategic environment would be too dynamic
to allow planning several years in advance. And small-scale-wars _have_
STL involved, as the boardgame Imperium demonstrates; but here no
"shortcuts" are
required.)
So let's look at the wars in Traveller history which could come into
question.
- -Interstellar Wars? Perhaps, but the Terrans initially wanted
economically interesting systems, and some enclave deep in Vilani space,
conquered at high losses via sublight vessels, wouldn't have been. From a
Vilani standpoint, the STL crew would have been judged to an early death
and life-long isolation for the STL crews. Sounds not very Vilani-like to me.
- -Civil War? Not very much detail about it has been published, AFAIK.
Room for interpretation.
- -Solomani Rim War? Well, it lasted ten years and spanned just a little
more than a sector, so it could be our candidate(though it's not very
likely, a sector spanning 40x32 parsecs...). Assuming that there is a
"shortcut" in the relevant area. Which can be managed not to be the
case. :-)
- -Frontier wars? The area is far too small. All of them took place in a
quarter to one-half of the Spinward Marches. Again, strategic
environment is too dynamic.
Similar things could be said about any of the other wars in Traveller
history.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:13:17 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: RollMaster/RuleMonster
Black ICE wrote:
> Of course, there's the most important book in the game system: Dice
> Law.
... and Table Law
Seriously, though, I run Rolemaster games a lot (more than Traveller in
fact), and it is a really nice system. The only problem is that it takes
some time to get used to, but after that it plays rather quickly.
It is actually a myth that there are many more dice rolls made in
RoleMaster than in other games, at least for common actions like combat,
athletic feats, etc. An attack during combat is made with one (attack
roll) or two dicerolls (critical hits or fumble can cause an additional
roll), just the same number as in Traveller. This attack roll already
counts the defenders actions, so no parry-roll is ever needed.
Spells require up to three rolls, but I've seen more in other games.
The only place where Rolemaster takes a lot of extra time is character
creation and experience/level management, but that doesn't happen during
play anyway.
> A number of years ago, I _briefly_ considered Space Master as an
> alternative to Traveller (this was pre-MT). Oddly enough, this
> contemplation of heresy coincided with a keg party on my dorm floor,
> and lasted about eight hours longer than the keg. ;-)
I've also considered SpaceMaster, but I abandoned that thought. Why?
Because the RoleMaster system is created primarily for close combat (or
at least for missile weapons which you can duck). The defensive rules do
some really strange things when quick missile weapons are involved.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 03:04:42 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead"
Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
Black ICE wrote:
>Based on this back-of-the-envelope analysis, Cuba under Bastista was
>_marginally_ freer than under Castro. Of course, the relative level of
>freedom between the two regimes is best measured from the comfort of my
>living room, rather than "up close and personal."
You neglect one important fact here, who are you talking about being
freer. The middle and upper class under Batista were free to live
relatively well, while the poor were free to starve in the street and work
themselves to death on the sugar plantations.
Under Castro, the rich mostly left, the middle class has much less, *but*
the poor (of which there were a whole whomping number under Batista) have
much more assured access to medical care and food than they did before.
No, conditions in Cuba are not good, but for the majority of the citizens
they are *much* better then they were.
>ObTrav: Governments of various types (3, 9, A, and B) can be
>interpreted as authoritarian or totalitarian regimes. A referee can add
>a bit of local color, to help the PCs figure out the exact nature of the
>government, by manipulating the relative level of ideology-based
>propaganda.
Based on Earth, there are two primary types of such governments:
States which actually believe their own egalitarian ideology and attempt
to provide equally for everyone (while admittedly deciding just what
everyone needs, often w/o asking anyone), and those states which either
have no such ideology, or which no longer actually follow it. In the
latter type of state the government exists to harvest wealth from the
people and make government officials rich.
If everyone has about the same standard of living you have the former type
of state, if you have mobs of poor folks and a few exceedingly (and
generally opulently) wealthy folks you have the second type of government.
The later type of state is *very* common (historically far more common the
any form of democratic government), the former is rather rare, but much
more humane.
- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:44:40 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
On 30 Jan 00, at 0:17, Evyn MacDude wrote:
> In my experience hunting wild pigs a marlin .44 lever action and/or .45acp
> seemed to be the best bet.
In this neck of the woods the latter round would be considered
woefully underpowered. Personally I prefer overkill and go with the .30-
06, though many like the 7.62x39 (probably because until the powers
that be decreed semi-autos to be evil SKS lookalikes were cheap
and plentiful).
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:44:40 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
On 30 Jan 00, at 18:43, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:
> They are weirdly resistant to hydrostatic shock too, a bullet will
> often
> not put one down but an arrow seems to kill them quickly. They literally
> pump the blood out like a fountain.
> A good critter for traveller would be some nasty that had a body that
> was designed to withstand hydrostatic shock to a huge degree, the PCs pump
> all sorts of bullets into it to no effect and a local kills it with a bow.
> Then have them meet another without the local around.
Actually IME (here's flame bait, folks) most things bigger than a
rabbit are fairly hydrostatic shock proof. The only reliable way to drop
something quickly is to wreck something vital - heart, aorta, etc,
lungs or central nervous system (though if you can afford to wait the
liver or kidneys will do). From what I've read the same actually
applies to humans, despite what the movies show.
When it comes to pigs the big thing is that they are very solidly built,
so you need very careful shot placement, or a round with very good
penetration or all you do is make a nice little hole in some fat and
muscle and maybe chip some bone.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:46:51 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
On 30 Jan 00, at 3:24, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 01/30/00 at 08:42 PM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>
> >> >They are very intelligent. Of course their hooves make tool use
> >> >problematic. ;)
> >>
> >> Probably the big reason they aren't on top of the food chain.
>
> >I'd say it's more likely to be because it's too much like hard work :)
> >I've seen some quite imaginative things done by pigs with their noses
> >(mainly to assist in escape attempts), but in general they'd much rather
> >recline in a nice muddy wallow than do anything involving effort.
>
> And that differs from many human couch potatoes?
Unlike the pigs the couch potatoes have worked out how to presude
all these nice energetic beings to go out and ensure that the couch
potatoes remain at the top of the food chain.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:54:08 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: RollMaster/RuleMonster
On 30 Jan 00, at 12:13, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> I've also considered SpaceMaster, but I abandoned that thought. Why?
> Because the RoleMaster system is created primarily for close combat (or at
> least for missile weapons which you can duck). The defensive rules do some
> really strange things when quick missile weapons are involved.
I actually found Spacemaster a better game than Rolemaster. Why?
Because the biggest drawback of the systems (which are almost
universally popular with players) is the amount of admin the GM (or
some other poor sucker) has to manage in combat once there are
more than a few NPC involved. This wasn't as pronounced in
Spacemaster when we played it for two main reasons:
1) There tended to be fewer combatants than in our Rolemaster
fantasy games.
2) Spacemaster's weapons kill faster than Rolemaster's, so there's
less need to keep track of bleeding, etc.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:29:33 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Ditzie S (was Reply time on posts/)
Roger Barr wrote:
>
> P.S. I have never met Ditzie, but I have heard the rumors. I am familiar
> with FS weapon systems, but i can't publically admit that without the
> lawyers crying...
> :)
All those pics of Ditzie trying out the weaponry and frying the occasional
bully are quite humorous...but I'm surprised I haven't seen her stats. Does
she have a UPP somewhere? :) :)
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 05:18:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The d3 Question
In mail you write:
> Via electronic medium on 1/29/00 7:02 AM, pnewman@gci.net wrote:
>
>> If you like unusual dice I reccommend the 50 sided
>> (about $5) and 7 sided (about $ 5/pair, one black &
>> one white) that Gamescience used to make. Gamescience
>> and/or Zocchi Distibutors (no longer owned by Lou
>> Zocchi) may still have some. Seven siders look like
>> the Pentagon with the top & bottom being the 6th &
>> 7th sides. Fifty siders look like an 8 sider that has
>> each face divided vertically 12 or 13 times until they
>> resemble a top. If anyone can suggest a good source
>> for 18, 26, & 36 sided dice please let me know.
>
> They (The Game Preserve) had the 7sided there, and a spindle type that I
> thought was 34, but maybe it was the 36 you mention. They also had a variety
> of 6ers with glyphs, or odd numbering/lettering schemes, and the ubiquitous
> 100 sider. ;) But I have sort of a preference for the true platonic solids.
> And my 30 sider. Ugly color though.
I picked up a pair of doubling dice at one game store (replacements for
backgammon sets). One black and one white. I actually played with
working up a "critical" table that used both, mostly because of "the
look" that players get when they see them in your dice box. (they are
numbered 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64).
I also have a pair of *round* "6-siders" (they have a rolling weight
inside, and "pockets" for it to snag in. And if I'd still had it by the
time I got into gaming, I might have used the old plastic roullette
wheel I used to own...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 05:26:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: RollMaster/RuleMonster
In mail you write:
> On 30 Jan 00, at 12:13, Jens Rydholm wrote:
>
>> I've also considered SpaceMaster, but I abandoned that thought. Why?
>> Because the RoleMaster system is created primarily for close combat (or at
>> least for missile weapons which you can duck). The defensive rules do some
>> really strange things when quick missile weapons are involved.
>
> I actually found Spacemaster a better game than Rolemaster. Why?
> Because the biggest drawback of the systems (which are almost
> universally popular with players) is the amount of admin the GM (or
> some other poor sucker) has to manage in combat once there are
> more than a few NPC involved. This wasn't as pronounced in
> Spacemaster when we played it for two main reasons:
>
> 1) There tended to be fewer combatants than in our Rolemaster
> fantasy games.
>
> 2) Spacemaster's weapons kill faster than Rolemaster's, so there's
> less need to keep track of bleeding, etc.
If you want *simplicity*, steal the Tunnels & Trolls combat system.
Attacks (and weapons) are rated in dice (6-sided), sometimes with
pluses/minuses. Defenses (armor, etc) are rated in points.
You total the attacks on both sides, subtract the high side from the
low side, and distribute the resulting damage among the characters on
the low side. Points subtracted from armor are *permanently* gone (ie a
3 point shield that takes 2 points in one attack is now a 1 pt shield.
And if it gets hit by more that 1 point in the next attack, the damage
in excess of 1 goes thru to the armor or body).
*Not* suitable for fancy tactics and strategy. But it's quick and decisive.
Combat is over quickly, letting you get on with the game.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 05:08:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
In mail you write:
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:46:46 -0500, "Chris Seamans"
> wrote:
>
>>The secret serial killer network which serves as something of a backdrop,
>>specifically in Red Dragon and to a lesser extent in Silence of the Lambs
>>could be very interesting as well. Imagine the sheer horror which the PCs
>>might be faced with if they stumbled on a key to interpret just one small
>>part of the secret language used. This would be especially shocking when put
>>into the proper perspective. There is a hell of a lot of information packed
>>in each individual Xboat, and so many of them wind their way through the
>>Imperium...
>
> I bet it would be easy for a serial killer to operate in the 3I. With
> the vast population there are probably a million murders a day. How
> difficult would it be to even discover a planet-hopping murder? He
> could be three parsecs away a week after killing a victim. Chasing him
> down would be a good adventure or even a campaign. The hunt for the
> killer across a sector or two. Always a step behind and not knowing
> where he'll strike next.
I'm reminded of a short story (I forget the author) involving a species
that *looks* human, but is far stronger, etc than humans, as well as
much longer lived. They *prey* on humans. They need certain tissues
from the human body to stay alive.
The *real* fun is when the one in they story selects a victim that
turns out to be something that preys on *his* species.
One or both of these species would be an interesting add-on to
Traveller. If anyone is *really* interested, I'll see if I can track
down the story. It's in *something* I read in the last few months, even
if it's an *old* story.
Anyway, picture the players cornering a "serial killer", discovering he
*isn't* human. And then realizing that they've now got his entire
*species* out to stop them before they can get believable data to
someone in power.
Sure, the "predators" may only number about 1 for every 10,000 or even
*million* of us. But in the Imperium, that's a *lot* of people.
Especially if they've had the brains to infiltrate the right groups,
both to spot victims who won't be missed, and spot "wild" members of
thier species so as to avoid tipping off the public.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:07:58 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
At 11:09 am 1/30/00 +0100, you wrote:
>At 18:27 1/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>>Wouldn't a Traveller newsgroup help people like you?
>>
>> Boy, we have really got to come up with a good text-only FAQ that
>>gets sent out to new subscribers, and maybe posted to the list once
a
>>month or so ...
>(snip)
>
>:)
>Hey, calm yourself! Was just a question.
Sorry, didn't mean this to come across as an attack. It was simply
an observation that's been percolating around in my head for a while
that got triggered. Hang around this list long enough, and you'll see
dozens of topics repeated. Lessee, there's
- usenet/mailing list
- pirates
- why can't you make a living on the trade rules
- pirates
- what's jump fuel used for,
- pirates
- task systems
- pirates
- near-c asteroids
- task systems
- Virus rocks!
- half-die
- Virus sux!
- Is GT really Traveller?
- half die
- why space combat is not like air combat
- pirates
- female psionic aslan pirates in comfy shoes
- why can't I use 50 pound contact missiles in light-range space
combat?
- half die
- hey, why aren't 10Td fighters useful against 1,000,000Td
dreadnoughts? (see missiles, above ...)
- plus the occasional useful adventure nugget, background info,
random table, or evil referee idea ...
Again, I wasn't at all trying to stifle you--it was simply an
observation that certain topics come up repeatedly (on about a 3-6
month cycle, I'd estimate), and it might help newcomers to know their
question had already been asked and answered before. Having listed
some of those topics, go right ahead and open them up again--you
certainly don't need my permission or anybody else's. Keep the flame!
- -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft
product.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1834
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Traveller-digest Sunday, January 30 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1835
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Corruption (was Re: Request)
OT Pavis was Re: Traveller Topic Posts
2300 Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1824
Re: Request
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
William Keith's URL and Bolos
RE: Ditzie and a question about TC
What keeps me coming back for more Traveller
Re: The d3 Question
Re: Ageing.
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Is there a William H. Keith, Jr. on this mailing list?
Re: Bolos & William Keith
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Re: What got you into Trav and keeps you coming back
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
A new look at Gravitics
Re: RollMaster/RuleMonster (was: Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: The Allure of Traveller
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:17:53 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Corruption (was Re: Request)
At 07:02 PM 1/29/00 PST, you wrote:
[snip]
>Just remember that "bribes" are *normal* in some cultures. Just as much
>as they are forbidden in others.
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
Uh-huh... sorta like the "Carton of Smokes" gift that the Pilots on
the Suez canal are open to if you want to make *todays* trip through instead
of tomorrow or the day *after*.
--Michel
(been there, seen that)
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:48:28 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: OT Pavis was Re: Traveller Topic Posts
At 11:13 -0500 29/1/00, William Barnett-Lewis wrote:
> > I recently
> > indulged in the reprint of Pavis and Big Rubble because of this.
>Ain't it exquisite? I've been telling people that if you only want to buy
>one Glorantha book, that is the one to get. I wish I were half so
>creative...
Yes. It looks superb - I did buy the RQ3 River of Cradles and Sun
County as well, but the original focuses somewhat differently.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:55:25 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: 2300 Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1824
At 11:13 -0500 29/1/00, "Rupert Boleyn" wrote:
>Why is it that everyone seems to think 2300AD had the same rules
>set as TNE? It doesn't, it has it's own rules which are different from
>everything else's. What it does have is TW2000 as background
>history, and TW2000 2nd ed had a (D10) version of the house rules.
The 2300 task system is closer to MT than TNE.
As usual, the combat system was a little clunky.
Brilliant background though.
Dom (Suffering because he foolishly agreed to a shot drinking contest
last night)
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:14:34 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Request
At 18:19 -0500 29/1/00, "Jory Earl" wrote:
>And I assume in the UK, where any phone usage is metered, there are folks
>using low-bandwidth dial-up accounts as well?
33k modem dialing into my ISP. I may look at ADSL when BT roll it out
next year.
>Obtrav :
>
>I am forced to wonder with only slow X-boat traffic, how the Third Imperium
>can maintain it's control of out-lying systems/subsectors? Surely the
>Imperial Navy isn't so large they can police everywhere? From the Adventure
>modules I've seen, there hasn't been a lot of 'corruption' on the local
>government scene, as compared to what I think it probably should be; after
>all, power corrupts and everyone wants a piece of the pie.
That's why the Imperial government lets systems run themselves and
only intervenes on specific matters. Think of the European Union as a
non-space marine based version. Directives may come out but are
translated and enforced in local law. Most law is driven by the
individual states - the EU only intervenes at certain levels. Eg the
recent EU lifting of the ban on British beef exports internally in
the EU, and the pending court action with the French for their
non-compliance with this order.
There are disparities between how the Northern and Southern European
states enforce the directives, even though everyone is nominally the
same.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:27:41 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
At 11:13 -0500 29/1/00, "Rupert Boleyn" wrote:
> > The other systems I have significant chunks of are 2300AD, Faded Suns and
> > Elric!/Stormbringer.
>
>Ah, 2300AD. AFAIK I'm only missing the 2300AD version of the rules
>(I've got the Traveller:2300 rules, with the SK-19 and the weird armour
>values) and the cyberpunk adventures.
I have the T2300 and 2300AD versions. I prefer the content of the
latter, and the build quality of the former.
If anyone wanted a starting point for a Traveller campaign, the
Nyotekundo(?) and Aurore Sourcebooks are a good bet - you don't need
a lot of work to convert the background. The Nyotekundo(?) sourcebook
details incidents around a mass driver based mining station, and
Aurore is one of the best SF worlds developed for adventures.
When people describe Traveller as 'hard SF' I always smile and think
of 2300, the *real* hard SF game.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:32:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Timothy Tow
Subject: William Keith's URL and Bolos
William Keith's site is at
http://users.sgi.net/~whkeith/index.html
From Book 4 of the recent Bolo Anthologies, there was
a story where the Mk XXXIII Bolos were being brought
down to a planet on transports and shot down several
of the defending starships on the way in to landing,
so Bolos apparently mount capital ship caliber
armament.
The race of canine enemies of humanity in William
Keith's Bolo universe appear to be Vargr-like too so
it does appear that Traveller has had an influence on
his work.
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:54:15 -0500
From: "Jeff &Michelle Norton"
Subject: RE: Ditzie and a question about TC
Hello,
Does anyone know who origionaly created Ditzie? I remember recieving a HUGE
file on Familie Spofulam, but it was lost in a MASSIVE system upgrade I had
to do. I would like to touch base again..
And, what ever happened to Traveller Cronicle? I just saw a bunch on EBAY.
Is it still in print?
Jeff Norton
Soldier, Scollar, Father, Husband, Contrator, and, one heck of a guy...
"No, Ma'am, DVD is not a communicable disease..."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:05:12 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: What keeps me coming back for more Traveller
Well, it is combination of a constantly evolving tapistry which is its
background, its artwork (like that of the Keiths, Blair Reynolds, and
naturally, Jesse), and the sense of wonder which fills a good adventure.
One could easily say the simplicity of the rules also had a big part to
play.
My first encounter with Traveller was back in 1982 when I went into my FLGS
and picked up a copy of Atlas of the Imperium. Mesemized by the hunking big
starship on the cover...I opened to peer the contents and was so
disappointed that all was reduced a copy scattered dots on a page! Where
was the description? For a universe of 1100 worlds it was boring! I have
to admit I grew up as part of the Star Wars generation but I was also
heavily influenced by Clarke and the British SF tradition Adliss and
especially television (Dr. Who & Blakes' 7). Traveller seemed to offer none
of that. So I put back Atlas and vowed I would never play such a poor game.
1 and a half years later, I picked up an edition of Starter Traveller
after looking through the The Traveller Book (but not being able to afford
it). And there were the hunking big starships, characters spelled out, and
the wonder complete with alien pyramids. I absorbed the rules in a two
night reading fest and was ready to referee (as I was the DM the
responsibility was my burden). However, if anyone has read the Starter
rules they are very vague about background which caused me to create whole
universes arround concepts such as Imperium, Ancients, and Major Races. It
did not help matters when I bought the expansion books so I had designed a
Traveller universe which would have resembled Asimov's starile Galatic
Empire with scientific rationality predomoninating at the same time, I begun
to acquire new items. It was an exciting time for the players and myself as
we voyaged the far reaches of Chartered Space, and I would be introducing
cannon as I learnt it(which was a very slow process until the Megatraveller
rules). A real sense of wonder was created in those years as they
confronted corrupt Terran empire officials, crawled through Ancient
structures, explored many unknown for fortune and reknown.
Then MT came in and changed the role of the Travellers into interstellar
celebratees fighing the good fight thanks to DGP. The campaign waned a bit.
But Hard Times created now possibilities but TNE killed it (although, it
was was T4 which broke us all up). I subsequently gained respect for those
two systems. And now I am a referee without players and wanting to eagerly
to join the ranks of the ranks of playerdom...
And, I finally did pick up another edition of Atlas of the
Imperium...US$78.00 dollars more then at that time but still loving
Traveller ever since I saw that hunking big starship.
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 06:11:39 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: The d3 Question
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote
> Peter Newman said:
> >> My FLGS in Fresno (The Game Preserve) had them once when I was in there. I
> >> should have bought them, but I was getting GT: First In and Far Trader and
> >> was nearly tapped out. Had to eat. I've seen them elsewhere, maybe you can
> >> get them on the net. Is Chessex on-line? I've also seen blanks that you
> >> could fill in. Only sixers though, a blank ico or dody would be really cool.
>
> >Yes Chessex is on line at www.chessex.com
> >but I could not find 3 sided dice in a cursory search
> >there. IIRC Chessex makes (or made) 3 sided dice in 16mm,
> >opaque, numbered, square cornered, round edged in six or
> >seven colors. They retail for about $0.40 each
>
> My less more than cursory search at the chessex site didn't turn up
> any references to d3's at all. I couldn't find them at Crazy
> Egor's, Titan, or DragonScroll.
While they may be out of stock, my FLGS, Bosco's, carries
them. Try www.boscos.com and run
a search for Dice 3 or send email to mailorders@boscos.com
asking for them. They have a fair selection of CT, TNE, (mostly
just GDW stuff) T4, G:Trav & Challenge Mags as well.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:22:18 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: Ageing.
>Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:03:07 +1100
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
>Subject: Ageing.
>
> I know there's a lot of ageing house rules out there. (Mine is it is
>defered one term for each TL after 9)
> But the effects of aging are prety harsh. Using CT I just generated a
PC
>who had the misfortune to have a Strength of 4, at age 34 he had a roughly
>50% chance of losing 25% of his strength. A similiar PC with a strength of
A
>would only lose 10%, and he's already got a good stat!
> Why don't PC's lose 10% at aging and it adds up, it would be an easy
>thing to keep track of and whenever you went under a whole number you lose
>another point.
> Thoughts anyone?
> Jim
So at TL9 everybody drops dead of old age at 74 having lost 100% of their
physical charecteristics?
As an alternative use the ageing scheme from TNE.
Roll 1D15*. If the roll is less than the charecteristic reduce the
charecteristic by 1
so at low stat levels it's less likely to be reduced but by a greater
percentage
of the stat. This works better for me. YMMV.
*They suggest 1d20 rerolling 16+ I would roll 1d8 and 1d6 if the d6 is high
(ie4+)
add 8 to the d8 roll.
David Shayne
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Veni, Vidi, Vaca.
I came, I saw, I had a cow
- Bart Caeser
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:16:35 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> Yes, but is it learned or instinctive behavior? Some species of
> bird will dip a small stick or piece of straw into an insect nest to
> capture, or at least stir up, the insects. No one seriously
> believes that these birds *learn* this behavior.
The reference escapes me now, but intelligent tool fabrication has been
observed in the wild with birds (with ravens, IIRC) where they were
modifying the sticks they were using to meet the needs of their
particular situation.
Also, there are some pretty convincing studies showing that parrots, at
least, are capable of language, not merely , well, parroting. ;-)
There's a particular gray parrot, who, when told to pick up the blue car
from the pile of plastic toys in front of him, will do so, even though
he's never seen a blue car before: he's seen cars, and blue things of
_other_ shapes, and makes the cognitive link. This is a level of
abstraction pretty far removed from instinct.
Now, of course, we can't be sure that this parrot isn't some sort of
Grandfather parrot ;-) but many parrot owners can provide considerable
anecdotal examples of just how inventive a bored Macaw can get.
(Of course, such inventiveness consists almost entirely of figuring out
how to escape and destroy things in new and interesting ways....maybe
they're the Warrior caste)
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:53:52 -0500
From: Thom Jones-Low
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
>
> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:09:10 +0100
> From: Ingo Heinscher
> Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
>
> At 22:24 1/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
> >> This is a recurring thread, which usually gets shot down. Some
> >> reasons many listmembers oppose newsgroups are:
> >
> >Actually, this idea received a LOT of support if you were reading the right
> >thread. And some people were paying attention...
>
> Okay, does anyone want my draft for a possible RFD (rec.games.frp.traveller) ?
> (RFD=Request for discussion, first step on creating a newsgroup in the "big
> eight" hierarchy)
>
No. I, like many other people on this list, don't like the idea of a
usenet news group. Or rather go ahead, you may well get the proposal
approved, but you won't see me (or I suspect many other TMLers).
I liked Swordy's newsgroup proposal because his was going to be a
private news server hosted by Downport.com, and posting by subscription
only. This kills the spam. Steve Jackson Games has their own News server
host, and has a web interface for everyone who can't/won't handle a NNTP
reader. And I've not seen any spam nor gotten any increase in e-mail
spam because of it.
- --
Thomas Jones-Low
tjoneslo@together.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:28:09 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Is there a William H. Keith, Jr. on this mailing list?
In a message dated 1/29/00 12:23:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> I'm asking again (or perhaps I'm in everyone's killfiles, who knows..)
>
> Is there a William H. Keith, Jr. on this mailing list?
No.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:32:40 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Bolos & William Keith
In a message dated 1/29/00 3:21:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> So, is that 'Bolo' as in "unstoppable automated war-machine" ?
>
Yes. William is authoring a couple(?) of new books in series (STS). He had
some related artwork on his web site last year.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:37:19 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
>Twelve gauge shotgun loaded with double ought buckshot *and* a pack
>of hounds. Of course, when I was a youngster that's what we used
>when hunting *anything* all the way down to rabbits and squirels.
>Okay, maybe not 00 buck for the squirels.
Not unless your intent was squirrel marmalade...
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:40:34 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: What got you into Trav and keeps you coming back
On Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> I am the sort of person who needs to feel that they matter in the scale of
> things. In D&D you went around from town to town and dungeon to dungeon and
> schlepped about but you always knew you were basically insignificant in the
> face of the universe. It was all about collecting stuff: kills, spells,
> experience, levels... I don't like that kind of quest game. I am not here
> in real life or my fantasy life to pick up all the tokens and turn them in
> for a bigger one.
Too bad...that must have been a rather unimaginative DM.
All the D&D campaigns I've played for any length of time have had the
grand sweep of events that went beyond just 'collecting stuff'. Of course,
_every_ D&D game I've ever played in or GM'ed was done by someone who
loved world creation, complete with political struggles, mysteries, and
real plots.
In the very first campaign I played in (must have been '77 or '78) we
started out being this bunch of newbie adventurers, out to get 'stuff';
whihc turned into 'I want this exact thing, lets find it' which turned
into, 'Now that I have this powerful thing, people keep coming up and
telling me about this bad person over there...I must do something about
it' on up to the point where last I heard, my character (now a retired NPC
on account of the DM moving out of town) was one of the continental
leaders, a PlainsLord (he was a centaur) of many herds.
Of course, like Eris, almost all the roleplaying I've ever done long term
rpg friends was in universes of our own creations, since we started with
little cheap staple bound books, and _had_ to create everything out of
whole cloth.
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:32:01 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
The Heretic quoth Comrade Hudson and responded:
> >The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its
> >Product"
>
>Like that. High Guard is *one* of its products and not an
>especially good product at that. ;-p
Come and say that on the SCTA mailing list, I dare you ;-)
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:06:49 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: A new look at Gravitics
Being relatively new on this list I should probably keep my mouth shut...
However...it seems to me (especially given the number of people that have
mentioned how we newbies always bring up the 'done to death topics') that
it's high time I start some trouble (nyeh-he-he-he).
The way I use gravitics in my CT universe is as follows:
The manouver drives of all ships as well as the grav plates of things like
air-rafts etc. are essentially engines which can create, reverse and
otherwise manipulate gravitic forces.
This means you can use these things to move like the classic UFO of our age.
You can add up 6G acceleration until you approach relativistic speeds and
nullify the momentum squashings that would be experienced by characters
inside the ship by use of the internal gravity plates, which compensate for
the field being created outside the ship to provide acceleration. In my TU
this has some interesting limitations for gaming purposes, mainly the
acceleration max for ships is that 6G at a time thing, this is so that
missiles can still be used. The reason given is that this kind of
'countering the external with an internal field' type of solution breaks
down catastrophically after the 6G limit (In real life this is not true of
course which is why the little Gray guys and the MIB guys with ships can
make 14,000G turns in a couple of secs, but that's another story).
Missiles in my TU are all able to 'skip' in and out of jumpspace by use of
tiny jump-like drives, that are completely unsuitable to transport anything
living at all (the effects of jump-skipping are deadly to any organism) or
anything inorganic for that matter beyond the distance of 1 light second.
The mechanism allows a missile to cover a distance of 30000 km in one turn
(in my TU ship combat turns are 10 seconds long) out to a maximum of 300000
km. The skipping mechanism means the missile is hovering between real and
jump-space several times per second and readjusting trajectory as it drops
back into realspace as required. The limitations of this technology (which
are true regardless of TL) is that this mechanism only works at a fixed
frequency and only at that one frequency (say a cycle of 1000 switches
between real and jump spaces per second) and that once it's begun, it cannot
be stopped. Also, after 100,000 cycles the object disintegrates into its
constituend molecules due to sudden and catastrophic stresses with little
more than a flash of light and some mild radiation (ie, the duration of this
thing is 10 turns of 10 seconds). This permits missiles to be effective in a
realistic manner without the need to keep lengthy documentation as to its
position etc before it contacts.
As a result of the tech required, the missiles are larger than in canon
sources and a turret can only store 3 missiles per launcher before requiring
reloading, a maximum of 12 missiles may be stored in a turret regardless of
how many launchers it has, although each launcher can also be loaded (for a
maximum total of 9+12 missiles in a triplle turret hardpoint).
Also, the missiles only have space for one of few warheads, explosive,
message, flare, fission or fusion. the last two are completely outlawed by
the forces that be in my TU and people who use them will have hefty bounties
appended to their heads if anyone survives to report them. The explosive
warhead is of a standard size and only one or two types can be chosen from.
Keep in mind that the maximum error that a missile can make is about 3km
from impact point, and I don't know of any ordinary explosive that can hurt
you at that distance (in a short space of time) other than nuclear warheads,
so some referees may want to increase the cyclying to 10,000 cycles per
second of real-jump/space travel
for the missiles.
Also, the way that a ship with gravitics would travel between stars is to
wormhole which effectively, according to classical physics anyway, takes no
time, so in order to comply with the traveller idea of 1week/jump, we have
to say that wormholing is also damaging to living creatures and instead
jump-space is used, meaning that a jump drive is a completely separate and
different tech to gravitic technology and that gravitic tech does not permit
time-dilation effects (as it would in real life) again, due to some
disturbing but deadly consequences on living things.
Well..that should have opened a can of worms for so many reasons....and me
being away next week I'l miss all the fun ...BWAHAHAHAH!!
Giuseppe
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:20:23 -0600
From: "Bont"
Subject: Re: RollMaster/RuleMonster (was: Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
> > >(RollMaster, anyone?).
> >
> > In this context I've always prefered RuleMonster, myself.
My group and I always referred to it as PaperMaster. When RMSS
came out, the name was even more justified. We pretty much
dropped it like a hot potato after that. We even had a player who
refused experience because it meant an hour of updating his
character afterwards if he made a level!
> OTOH, I do enjoy Silent Death, which is (more-or-less) set in the
> Space Master universe.
Yes, good system until they came out with the escorts. After that,
the game degraded into more paperwork and die rolls. The
Gunboats could be a problem. The escorts were a problem.
"Ok, that was my FR#3a gun. Two points. Now for my FR#3b gun.
Just 25 more to go!" Or something like that. It's been awhile.
- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)
- - Encrypt your messages!
That way only the government knows what you wrote!
- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!
- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)
- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto
- - Help Stop Forest Fires. Outlaw Matches.
Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
http://www.felixcafe.com/
- - - -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:15:11 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: The Allure of Traveller
I agree very much with you. So does my wife. She had played Tunnels
and Trolls, D&D before discovering Traveller. But Traveller is where
she actually got into roleplaying, partly because Traveller ran to the
KISS principle, partly because the Traveller universe was so freeform in
spirit.
darkhstarr
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> On 01/27/00 at 10:42 AM, "Brian Jenkins" said:
>
> >What is it about the game that attracts you and keeps you coming
> >back for more. What is the allure that traveller has for you.
>
> Others have already answered this, but I feel compelled to testify.
>
> I officially started role playing with first edition D&D, but
> unofficially (without the benefit of knowing I was doing it) had
> been role playing far longer. Thing is, though, I never much cared
> for fantasy, what I liked was science fiction. So, between 74 and
> 77 I homebrewed my own SF games out of DND rules...not a
> satisfactory thing, but the best I could think to do.
>
> Then one Saturday morning while browsing in the back of the local
> game store I ran across a little black box with red block printing.
>
> "Ooo! TRAVELLER Science Fiction Adventures in the Far Future, now *that*
> sounds promising." I said to myself as I grabbed the box. Some
> good soul had opened one of the two boxes on the shelf, and soon I
> was reading through the books. It took me five minutes to decide
> I'd found *my* game. It's still my game. That boxed set, books and
> disks, are sitting on the shelf five feet from me right now.
>
> So, I bought it, took it home, read all three books that afternoon,
> and ran a game *that* night. No, we didn't get much further than
> creating characters and getting a ship, but my group of players and
> I were off and running.
>
> Brian, the first few years there wasn't an OTU. If you wanted to
> play Traveller you had to build your own universe, and I did. It
> was my Imperium, my Spinward Marches, my aliens, and my background
> building up into a coherent story. It wasn't all that much like
> what GDW started publishing, but I squeeze their stuff into my games
> as best I could. Eventually, their OTU and MTU were so different
> that I really couldn't use all that much of their background
> material, but I could still use lots of the equipment, stars and
> design sequences after I filed the numbers off. I got very good at
> filing off the numbers and doing things my own way, so good that
> *not* doing it seems unnatural to me now.
>
> What brings me back to Traveller? Shoot! When it comes to
> roleplaying that's all there is for me. I can politely discuss OTU
> subjects with the canonists, like how many Imperial Warrents can
> hide in Norris' footlocker, or hotly debate the merits of task
> systems and "the damned d3", but Brian that's all just a tiny part
> of what Traveller is to me. The big part, the important part, is
> the games I play in and run. That part is *my* Traveller.
>
> Folks here call me a heretic, make references to the ErisianTU, and
> such kid me about how much I like FUDGE. I don't discourage those
> references, to be frank it's a hoot. It doesn't matter though,
> because in the end there is only Traveller. It doesn't matter to
> me whether it's CT, MT, TNE, T4, GT, T5, something else, or a
> combination of all the above...it's still Traveller. The games can
> be set in CT-OTU, MT Rebellion, the TNE post VIRUS, M0, GT's
> "Stephron in a shower", or any GM's own personal TU...and it's
> *still* Traveller.
>
> Eris
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1835
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Date: 1/30/00 11:40:55 AM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Sunday, January 30 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1836
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Corruption (was Re: Request)
Re: Ageing.
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: What keeps me coming back for more Traveller
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Re: Swine and Villains
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
RE: Ditzie and a question about TC
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Re: Swine and Villains
Serial Killers
Re: Swine and Villains
Re: Swine and Villains
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: A new look at Gravitics
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:26:31 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Corruption (was Re: Request)
That's exactly how I do have pirates operating in my campaign.
Corruption also played a hand in my wife's pirate character development.
He mother was a popular (and expensive) grav dancer from the Beyond
sector. And mistresss to several businessmen, government and military
types in the Spinward Marches. She took her main payment in stocks for
various Imperial corporations, which after several years made her vary
rich. She also used a laison with an Imperial Admiral to get her oldest
daughter, Bette Noire, illegally into the Imperial Naval Academy, which
Bette graduated with honors.
darkhstarr
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> > I am forced to wonder with only slow X-boat traffic, how the Third Imperium
> > can maintain it's control of out-lying systems/subsectors? Surely the
> > Imperial Navy isn't so large they can police everywhere? From the Adventure
> > modules I've seen, there hasn't been a lot of 'corruption' on the local
> > government scene, as compared to what I think it probably should be; after
> > all, power corrupts and everyone wants a piece of the pie.
>
> Keep in mind that as long as the local government pays its taxes on
> time and adheres to the (rather small number of) Imperial laws, the
> Imperium doesn't *care* about how local affairs are handled.
>
> Heck, several government codes pretty much *institionalize* what other
> types of government consider "corruption".
>
> Being corrupt and being under Imperial control are disjoint properties.
> that is, one has almost no effect on the other.
>
> You have to get to the point of legalized slavery or "open" support of
> pirates before "local corruption" conflicts with Imperial law.
>
> Heck, that may be how many pirates work. They are actually
> (unofficially) supported by the local government. Say the mainworld in
> one hex acts as a haven for pirates operating in adjoining hexes. As
> long as the pirates don't take any ships in the "haven" system, and
> don't boast too much, both the government and the local businesses will
> cheerfully buy the cargoes and charge for supplies and repairs without
> asking too many questions.
>
> But getting back to more "traditional" forms of "corruption", try
> things like these.
>
> Next time the PCs land on a planet with a "xxx Bureaucracy" type
> government (or any of several other types) with a *high* law level,
> and they have to deal with some clerk, have a list of the *official*
> fee schedule for "bribes" of various sorts posted on the wall!
>
> You'll have fun drawing up the possible "special services" fees and
> shock a few players. Especially when they find out that the fees are
> fixed. No paying more and you get laughed at for trying to pay less.
> In fact *trying* to pay more may get you in trouble.
>
> At lower law levels, bribes, if part of the system, will be more
> flexible.
>
> Just remember that "bribes" are *normal* in some cultures. Just as much
> as they are forbidden in others.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:31:27 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Ageing.
It's one of the few things I disagreed with in CT, so I added 30 years
to the aging taking effects. Similar to what I did later to computers
by multiplying each type's(model1, model1bis, model1fib) load and
storage capacity by a factor of ten.
darkhstarr
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:
>
> I know there's a lot of ageing house rules out there. (Mine is it is
> defered one term for each TL after 9)
> But the effects of aging are prety harsh. Using CT I just generated a PC
> who had the misfortune to have a Strength of 4, at age 34 he had a roughly
> 50% chance of losing 25% of his strength. A similiar PC with a strength of A
> would only lose 10%, and he's already got a good stat!
> Why don't PC's lose 10% at aging and it adds up, it would be an easy
> thing to keep track of and whenever you went under a whole number you lose
> another point.
> Thoughts anyone?
> Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:54:15 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>Robert Prior wrote:
>>
>> A couple of years ago there was a Canadian company that traded with both
>> Cuba and the US -- they were being prosecuted in the US under a law
>> (Helms-Burton maybe?) that allowed the US government to fine them, and take
>> the fine out of their American assets...
>>
>And to me, that was a BS law! Leave it to Jesse Helms, the right-winger who
>gives Republicans a bad name, to do this.
I agree with you on the law, but the sheer necessity of having to pay
American lawyers because of something that you do outside the States that
is perfectly in accordance with the laws in all the countries where the
action is taking place proves that the American embargo of Cuba isn't just
for Americans.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:06:49 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: What keeps me coming back for more Traveller
Might as well throw in my $0.02 here... Traveller was the first
RPG I played that wasn't in the genre of heroic fantasy. I
started playing AD&D in the fall of 1979, in my first year at
university. Over the next two years I also tried Runequest and
Tunnels & Trolls. And although I knew about Gamma World, I hadn't
actually played it.
Then a friend of mine started a Traveller game, back with the
original LBBs. And I was hooked. Part of the reason is that it
expanded RPG'ing beyond the bounds of heroic fantasy, which I
must admit is a genre that doesn't particularly interest me as
literature. OTOH, I do read a lot of science fiction, so combining
an RPG with a genre I liked was a great discovery.
Since then I've played several other outer-space SF games, such
as Space Opera, Star Frontiers, Star Wars, Star Trek, and Universe.
But I kept coming back to Traveller. I like the game universe, with
the Imperium, Solomani, Hivers, K'Kree, Aslan, and Vargr. I like
the simplicity of the mapping system (the fact that it's 2-D
doesn't particularly bother me), and the possibilities inherent in
the world generation sytem.
Right now, the attraction is the fact that I just about any space-
borne adventure idea, I can fit into the game somewhere -- space is
big, and I take advantage of the fact that one can find a variety of
worlds and settings just within the bounds of a single sector. I now
run a GURPS Traveller game, and everyone in it is enjoying it.
- -- g
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:27:35 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:37:19 -0700, Glenn St-Germain
wrote:
>
>>Twelve gauge shotgun loaded with double ought buckshot *and* a pack
>>of hounds. Of course, when I was a youngster that's what we used
>>when hunting *anything* all the way down to rabbits and squirels.
>>Okay, maybe not 00 buck for the squirels.
>
>Not unless your intent was squirrel marmalade...
>
I had a friend who was getting annoyed by a chattering squirrel while
trying to hunt deer. He ended up shooting the squirrel with his .300
Winchester magnum rifle. He found a tiny bit of squirrel marmalade.
;-)
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different levels. The
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."
- Unknown (If you know, tell me.)
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:31:42 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:52:38 -0800, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven
Hudson) wrote:
>>From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
>>Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
>...
>>I bet it would be easy for a serial killer to operate in the 3I. With
>>the vast population there are probably a million murders a day. How
>
> Heck, that sounds like the original Porozlo :>
Um, who?
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"An organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different levels. The
monkeys on the top look down and all they see are smiling faces, the monkeys
on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes."
- Unknown (If you know, tell me.)
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:36:18 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Just for the record, I'm not real happy with the policy the U.S. has
concerning Cuba!
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 7:43 PM
Subject: RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>
SOME PARTS SNIPPED, WHERE APPROPRIATE....
>
> Well, I wasn't going to get involved in this, but once again the US
jingoism
> and propaganda bullshit is getting too much to bear.
>
> It's a hell of a lot more than a threat.
>
> The US takes it upon itself to act as a pirate when it comes to Cuba.
>
> A company I used to work for in New Zealand was exporting radio
> communications equipment to Cuba in the early nineties. Some of it was on
a
> ship that had not intended to dock in the US, but was forced to do so due
to
> weather conditions or engine trouble or some similar unforseen
circumstance.
>
> The US customs "confiscated" (i.e: stole) this radio equipment off the
boat
> because it was bound for Cuba. Though they had absolutely no legal right
to
> do so under either US or international law, our legal advice was that the
> cost of the equipmnet (some tens of thousands of dollars ) was less than
the
> amount of lawyers fees we'd have to pay to try and get the stuff back.
>
> This a classic example of why us non-US citizens don't like the US and
> consider it a fascist bully.
>
Spoken pretty boldly for someone who owes at least in some small part, their
freedom based on past U.S. actions. If we were truly fascist, why didn't we
just
take over NZ, to "protect it", after WWII? I too believe that the U.S. goes
too
far but, in this particular case you know and I know that the captain of
that
ship KNEW the U.S. rules and STILL chose to dock there. Why aren't you
hammering him for being stupid? Those rules have been in effect for 35
years.
Like I said before, I don't agree with a lot of the rules the U.S. has but
it is still
one of the PREMIERE places in the world to live, bar none!!!!!
>
> > When Cuba was a Soviet client state, most of its international trade
> > was with the USSR and the Soviet Bloc. Now that the USSR is gone, Cuba
> > has virtually no international trade,
>
> Not true. Many countries currently trade with Cuba, and more would if it
was
> not for the difficulties of shipping to Cuba without going through the
> United States.
>
> Frankie
>
Personally I think we should lift trade restrictions with Cuba and within 15
years
they would be more capitalistic than socialistic. We wouldn't have to
pretend to
worry about them anymore. With the present state of affairs in the world
today
I am starting to believe that the U.S. should go back to a more ISOLATIONIST
stance and let all these other countries fend for themselves. Just take our
check
book and go home so to speak.
How many countries would that effect? Yours?
Thom
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:24:51 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
In a message dated 1/30/00 7:47:54 AM !!!First Boot!!!, jimpeta@primus.com.au
writes:
<< A good critter for traveller would be some nasty that had a body that
was designed to withstand hydrostatic shock to a huge degree, the PCs pump
all sorts of bullets into it to no effect and a local kills it with a bow.
Then have them meet another without the local around.
>>
better pray one of the PC's is a person who took Bow-1 as a hobby and has a
TL 15 bow and arrow set with diamond arrow points...:-)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:28:05 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
In a message dated 1/30/00 8:10:00 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:
<< and excluding fruit-loops who don't understand "secure air space" >>
those "fruit loops" were in international air space as proven by cruise liner
passengers cam corders and radar tracking....Everything will be fine with the
US and Cuba as soon as that old bastard dies...
Ob Trav: Anagathics!...:-)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:25:10 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Ditzie and a question about TC
Ditzie & FS was originally a creation of Roderick Darroch Elliot, then
passed on to Ian Whitechurch (who incedentally is now off-list last I heard
due to Real Life (tm) complications. Sometime after that, I joined the
list, heard of Ditzie, and almost died laughing :) I just had to draw her
and some of her toys. The first drawing was wrong in that I didn't realize
what age she was, and she was kinda' anime teen. Now she's ~7 or so in my
drawings I guess. The FS file you're referring to might be the FS 1997
Christmas Catalog that's archived at the BITS site http://www.bits.org.uk/.
Click on the archive button and you'll see the file. Haven't illustrated it
yet though >:D
Best,
Jesse
Creator of the Ditzie cartoon
jdegraff@pacbell.net
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm
"Striving to Produce a Better (Illustrated) Traveller Universe" (tm)
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jeff
&Michelle Norton
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 6:54 AM
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: RE: Ditzie and a question about TC
Hello,
Does anyone know who origionaly created Ditzie? I remember recieving a HUGE
file on Familie Spofulam, but it was lost in a MASSIVE system upgrade I had
to do. I would like to touch base again..
And, what ever happened to Traveller Cronicle? I just saw a bunch on EBAY.
Is it still in print?
Jeff Norton
Soldier, Scollar, Father, Husband, Contrator, and, one heck of a guy...
"No, Ma'am, DVD is not a communicable disease..."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:38:53 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
<>
>
> (Of course, such inventiveness consists almost entirely of figuring out
> how to escape and destroy things in new and interesting ways....maybe
> they're the Warrior caste)
"Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue. Beautiful plumage, eh, squire?"
**later**
"Of _course_ he'd been nailed there! If he hadn't been nailed there,
he'd have nuzzled up to the bars, pried them apart with his beak, and
*foom*"!
Admit it. You all knew this was coming, sooner or later, once the
"small sophont" thread turned to parrots.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:05:12 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
>From: "Rupert Boleyn"
>Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
...
>Actually IME (here's flame bait, folks) most things bigger than a
>rabbit are fairly hydrostatic shock proof. The only reliable way to drop
...
>When it comes to pigs the big thing is that they are very solidly built,
>so you need very careful shot placement, or a round with very good
>penetration or all you do is make a nice little hole in some fat and
>muscle and maybe chip some bone.
So how would you properly model that using the DiceMaster (tm) rules
system? Give examples. (10 marks)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:05:23 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
...
>I'm reminded of a short story (I forget the author) involving a species
>that *looks* human, but is far stronger, etc than humans, as well as
>much longer lived. They *prey* on humans. They need certain tissues
>from the human body to stay alive.
>
>The *real* fun is when the one in they story selects a victim that
>turns out to be something that preys on *his* species.
Turtledove, IIRC.
>Sure, the "predators" may only number about 1 for every 10,000 or even
>*million* of us. But in the Imperium, that's a *lot* of people.
>Especially if they've had the brains to infiltrate the right groups,
>both to spot victims who won't be missed, and spot "wild" members of
>thier species so as to avoid tipping off the public.
So what you're suggesting is the long-awaited Vampire clanbook for Trav? :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:02:11 -0800
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan"
Subject: Serial Killers
From: Leonard Erickson
>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:46:46 -0500, "Chris Seamans" wrote:
>>
>>>The secret serial killer network which serves as something of a backdrop,
specifically in Red Dragon and to a lesser extent in Silence of the Lambs
could be very interesting as well. Imagine the sheer horror which the PCs
might be faced with if they stumbled on a key to interpret just one small
part of the secret language used.
>>>
I have a hard time imagining serial killers being that organized. They
generally are solitary and paranoid.
>>> This would be especially shocking when put into the proper perspective.
There is a hell of a lot of information packed in each individual Xboat, and
so many of them wind their way through the Imperium...
>>>
Actually, tending Xboats would be a good job for a serial killer. He
(they're almost always male) could devote lots of uninterrupted time to
researching his targets and would have a very wide range of places to
operate. Serial killers are weird and don't like to interact with other
people and would be very happy on an Xboat... that extra
"bedroom" could be used for lots of things, and think of the access to
people's mail and secrets and things.
>> I bet it would be easy for a serial killer to operate in the 3I. With the
vast population there are probably a million murders a day. How difficult
would it be to even discover a planet-hopping murder? He could be three
parsecs away a week after killing a victim. Chasing him down would be a good
adventure or even a campaign. The hunt for the killer across a sector or
two. Always a step behind and not knowing where he'll strike next.
>>
Heheheheheheh.
>I'm reminded of a short story (I forget the author) involving a species
that *looks* human, but is far stronger, etc than humans, as well as much
longer lived. They *prey* on humans. They need certain tissues from the
human body to stay alive.
>
Gee, there are lots of stories about those critters, they're called "vampire
s".
>The *real* fun is when the one in the story selects a victim that turns out
to be something that preys on *his* species.
>
I think I may have read this.
>One or both of these species would be an interesting add-on to Traveller.
If anyone is *really* interested, I'll see if I can track down the story.
It's in *something* I read in the last few months, even if it's an *old*
story.
>
I'd like to know if it's the same one. I can't remember what it was...
>Anyway, picture the players cornering a "serial killer", discovering he
*isn't* human. And then realizing that they've now got his entire *species*
out to stop them before they can get believable data to someone in power.
>
Yes, Lieutenant Van Helsing?
>Sure, the "predators" may only number about 1 for every 10,000 or even
*million* of us. But in the Imperium, that's a *lot* of people. Especially
if they've had the brains to infiltrate the right groups, both to spot
victims who won't be missed, and spot "wild" members of their species so as
to avoid tipping off the public.
>
The Camarilla, anyone? Delta Green?
Kiri, LOL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God...
tiamat@tsoft.com
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is
sacred somewhere. There's
a deity out there who digs it. You can respect and love your darkest side,
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical. It's all about giving
yourself permission."
-- Jack Darkhand
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:03:11 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
At 11:05 AM 1/30/00 -0800, you wrote:
>>Sure, the "predators" may only number about 1 for every 10,000 or even
>>*million* of us. But in the Imperium, that's a *lot* of people.
>>Especially if they've had the brains to infiltrate the right groups,
>>both to spot victims who won't be missed, and spot "wild" members of
>>thier species so as to avoid tipping off the public.
>
>So what you're suggesting is the long-awaited Vampire clanbook for Trav? :)
>
Funny, I thought the same thing... =)
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:08:33 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
>I bet it would be easy for a serial killer to operate in the 3I. With
>the vast population there are probably a million murders a day. How
>difficult would it be to even discover a planet-hopping murder? He
>could be three parsecs away a week after killing a victim. Chasing him
>down would be a good adventure or even a campaign. The hunt for the
>killer across a sector or two. Always a step behind and not knowing
>where he'll strike next.
I think that you're basing your premise of murder rates too much on modern
western (U.S.) civilization. Murder rates in Japan are a tenth of the rates
in the U.S. Rates in most of Europe (Not counting the areas of ethnic
cleansing) are a third or a fourth of the U.S. rate. Australia's rate is
half the rate in the U.S.
Still the hunt for a serial killer does seem like a good plot seed. It would
fit in well with a group of PC's who are law enforcement officers or high
social status travellers.
Further, considering the cost of interstellar travel we have a situation
very much like the early to middle nineteenth century. People who travel a
lot are either rich and so among the upper classes or spacers. Either way
they are relatively small populations. Victims are likely to center around
either the Startown community or among the upper classes (or those who have
contact with the upper classes.) It might work best among a group of PC's
who don't have their own ship, but have the means to book passage on liners
and free traders. That could mean law officers on an expense account or a
group of PC's with a Noble patron, ( or a PC who is a Noble.)
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:22:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
In mail you write:
> Just for the record, I'm not real happy with the policy the U.S. has
> concerning Cuba!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank G. Pitt"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 7:43 PM
> Subject: RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>>
> SOME PARTS SNIPPED, WHERE APPROPRIATE....
>>
>> The US takes it upon itself to act as a pirate when it comes to Cuba.
>>
>> A company I used to work for in New Zealand was exporting radio
>> communications equipment to Cuba in the early nineties. Some of it
>> was on a ship that had not intended to dock in the US, but was
>> forced to do so due to weather conditions or engine trouble or some
>> similar unforseen circumstance.
>>
>> The US customs "confiscated" (i.e: stole) this radio equipment off
>> the boat because it was bound for Cuba. Though they had absolutely
>> no legal right to do so under either US or international law, our
>> legal advice was that the cost of the equipmnet (some tens of
>> thousands of dollars ) was less than the amount of lawyers fees we'd
>> have to pay to try and get the stuff back.
>>
>> This a classic example of why us non-US citizens don't like the US and
>> consider it a fascist bully.
>>
> Spoken pretty boldly for someone who owes at least in some small
> part, their freedom based on past U.S. actions. If we were truly
> fascist, why didn't we just take over NZ, to "protect it", after
> WWII? I too believe that the U.S. goes too far but, in this
> particular case you know and I know that the captain of that ship
> KNEW the U.S. rules and STILL chose to dock there. Why aren't you
> hammering him for being stupid? Those rules have been in effect for
> 35 years.
I suggest you sit down and *think*. What he complained about is the
fact that the captain did indeed know the rules AND THAT THOSE RULES
*DON'T* ALLOW WHAT THE CUSTOMS SERVICE DID!
As he noted, neither US law, nor international maritime law (which,
being set by treaty ranks right up there with the Constitution) allows
confiscation of cargo that is not destined for the US! *Especially* in
the case of a vessel in distress...
If they company had chosen to waste the money fighting it, they could
have gotten some customs officials *jailed*. Assuming, of course, that
the trial went by the *law*.
> Like I said before, I don't agree with a lot of the rules the U.S.
> has but it is still one of the PREMIERE places in the world to live,
> bar none!!!!!
And is doing it's damnedest to *not* be, mostly by ignoring its own
laws when they prove "inconvenient".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:31:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: A new look at Gravitics
In mail you write:
> The way I use gravitics in my CT universe is as follows:
> The manouver drives of all ships as well as the grav plates of things like
> air-rafts etc. are essentially engines which can create, reverse and
> otherwise manipulate gravitic forces.
> This means you can use these things to move like the classic UFO of our age.
Nope. The "classic UFO" can do things like make right angle turns at
high speed. That requires *infinite* acceleration.
As long as you have an acceleration limit, even if you insulate the
inside of the ship from the effects of the acceleration, your movement
will be vectored. So if you are moving at a high speed in one
direction, and start accelerating off to one side, your new vector will
be a combination of the old vector and the steadily increasing new
(velocity) vector. So your course will be a curve.
> You can add up 6G acceleration until you approach relativistic speeds and
> nullify the momentum squashings that would be experienced by characters
> inside the ship by use of the internal gravity plates, which compensate for
> the field being created outside the ship to provide acceleration. In my TU
> this has some interesting limitations for gaming purposes, mainly the
> acceleration max for ships is that 6G at a time thing, this is so that
> missiles can still be used. The reason given is that this kind of
> 'countering the external with an internal field' type of solution breaks
> down catastrophically after the 6G limit (In real life this is not true of
> course which is why the little Gray guys and the MIB guys with ships can
> make 14,000G turns in a couple of secs, but that's another story).
To make right angle turns and the like, you have to neutralize
*inertia*, rather than acceleration. And that makes for *very*
different behavoir. For one thing, if you obey conservation laws, when
you cut your drive, you'll resume travelling at the same vector you had
when you turned it on. Which could be *very* fatal if the "intrinsic"
velocity turns out to be high, and aimed at a nearby object. Oops!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1836
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Traveller-digest Monday, January 31 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1837
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: 2300 Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1824
Re: Swine and Villains
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Re: Serial Killers
RE: MT Damage
Re: TML People
Re Aging and Dice.
Re Pigs and Guns
Re: Sword Worlder names
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:42:41 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
>From: Ingo Heinscher
>Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
...
>Would't an anti-Imperial ideology (which could, at least by claim,threaten
>the Imperium's base of power) be suppressed by the nobility and the IN?
Actions, probably, eventually. Ideology can be just local politics or
a temporary conjunction of domestic dialogues. If the 3I actually tried
to intervene in most of those cases they'd run into a shortage of political
capital real fast, and it wouldn't take too many years for that to translate
into inadequate physical resources. Empires have limitations, too.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:42:58 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
>From: "Rupert Boleyn"
>Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
...
>> And that differs from many human couch potatoes?
>
>Unlike the pigs the couch potatoes have worked out how to presude
>all these nice energetic beings to go out and ensure that the couch
>potatoes remain at the top of the food chain.
Maybe they like being taken out for dinner? So we've got "uses tools",
and all we need is "causes fires", and "can communicate". :>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:43:11 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
>At 21:43 1/29/00 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>ObTrav: Governments of various types (3, 9, A, and B) can be
>>interpreted as authoritarian or totalitarian regimes. A referee can add
>>a bit of local color, to help the PCs figure out the exact nature of the
>>government, by manipulating the relative level of ideology-based
>>propaganda.
>
>Would't an anti-Imperial ideology (which could, at least by claim,threaten
>the Imperium's base of power) be suppressed by the nobility and the IN?
I've stated before and will repeat myself. :)
Any local government that attempts to nationalize (planetize?) the assets of
the Megacorps will incure the wrath of the Imperium. The 3I will initially
use covert methods to undermine its enemies. If this fails, overt legal
means will probably be attempted (even if the charges are trumped up.) If
the movement has wide local popular support and cannot be discredited then
the IA will hold manuevers there, for the next fifty or sixty years. If the
locals resist this addition to the local economy then Imperial Marines will
be sent to ensure that any difficulties with the outpaying of stock dividens
to the Peerage will be delt with.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:47:50 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
On 01/30/00 at 02:32 PM, SD Mooney said:
>The Heretic quoth Comrade Hudson and responded:
>> >The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its
>> >Product"
>>
>>Like that. High Guard is *one* of its products and not an
>>especially good product at that. ;-p
>Come and say that on the SCTA mailing list, I dare you ;-)
SCTA? Stupid Classic Traveller Anagrams? Society to Cure
Travelleritis Attacks? South Chatham Transit Authority? Oh, I
know, Seriously Cool Traveller Affectionidos! That must be it. ;-p
HG's Navy Character Generation and new skills were worthwhile, but
the ship design and combat systems sucked rocks then and sucks rocks
now. That's one heretic's opinion, so hah!
Call *me* a conformist, will they!
I'm basing my opinions of HG from the two copies I own, yes I own
*two* copies of HG, but just for the character stuff. However,
being a open minded heretic, I'm willing to listen to different
opinions and examine contrary evidence, unlike some of you hidebound
Torquamondas.
So, now here's the 64 kCr question. Is there some wonderful version
of HG that I've never seen out there that actually *has* good ship
design rules?
I remember being somewhat perplexed by Michel's "How to.." post of a
couple weeks ago. The numbers he was using didn't always match what
was printed in my copies of HG, and were *far* off in some cases.
When he got to energy production (ep's he called them)...t'wasn't
anywhere to be found. Then he started writing about how many ep's
different systems *used*...huh? "Whazzat? Wherzat?" grumbled I as
I scoured both my HG's looking for such a thing.
Anyway, I saved that post because I wanted to officially say "HUH?"
but haven't had a chance to do it before now...so...
"HUH?"
Eris,
batting his eyes innocently
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:50:21 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
On 01/30/00 at 08:37 AM, Glenn St-Germain said:
>>Twelve gauge shotgun loaded with double ought buckshot *and* a pack
>>of hounds. Of course, when I was a youngster that's what we used
>>when hunting *anything* all the way down to rabbits and squirels.
>>Okay, maybe not 00 buck for the squirels.
>Not unless your intent was squirrel marmalade...
Pre-tenderized, but you have to watch out for the pellets when you eat them. ;-p
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:52:53 -0500
From: Glenn Grant
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
>Via electronic medium on 1/29/00 10:43 AM, Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de
>wrote:
>
>> Oh, I think you could use them for short-range STL travel: That is why I
>> used that "crumpled table cover" comparison (exp?). If the actual length of
>> a jump distance doesn't vary too much, stars that are close on a jump space
>> map are also close in normal space. You would have to adjust travel times
>> by a percentage that depensds on the region of jump space where you travel.
>
>Wow, I'm liking that. And if it fluctuated or rippled like water, that would
>explain minor variations that come up on the die roll for amount of time.
This thread reappears from time to time on the TML. When the subject came
up about two years ago, someone suggestede that Jumpspace is a flat
dimension that extends along the galactic plane, accessible to stars above
and below the plane due to its collapsing of the vertical coordinate. The
problem with this idea is that, if you collapsed the whole of the galaxy's
thickness into a flat plane, you'd end up with a map jammed with hundreds
or even thousands of stars per hex.
So Glenn Hoppe came up with the theory that the region where jumpspace is
accessible is itself a thin disk, thicker towards the Core, thinner towards
the Rim. [Glenn H. seems to have long since faded from the list, but his
theory, and my elaboration of it, might still be available on his
"JumpSpace" web site. I don't have the URL handy, but I'm sure it's on the
Web ring.] In this theory, the jumpspace continuum is a phenomenon
generated by extremely massive rotating singularities -- i.e. the black
hole at the galaxy's centre.
Hoppe stated that, at the distance of the Imperium (in other words,
anywhere in the Orion Spiral Arm) this region is 50 parsecs in thickness.
[Hoppe: "Part of our normal space-time continuum (n-space) within about 25
light-years of the galactic plane is somehow connected through the
jumpspace-time continuum (j-space)."] Stars above or below this 50pc-thick
region are not accessible via j-space, so they're out of luck. No FTL
travel in those areas.
Responding to Hoppe, I said: based on the density of stars in the official
game maps, the j-space-accessible region has to be much thinner than 50pc
- -- perhaps only 4pc in depth, maybe 6pc at most. If it were 50pc deep, the
maps would be packed full of stars.
Then I came up with this idea: the spinning Core singularity generates not
just one j-space continuum, but thousands. Only the central plane is
actually 'flat' in three dimensions. The planes above and below it are
shaped like the surfaces of shallow cones (or parabolas/hyperbolas); at the
point of each cone is the Core singularity. (A diagram would help explain
this. Imagine a big stack of very thin, broad pancakes, with a staple
through the centre. The galactic midplane is the only flat pancake,
half-way up the stack; the rest are all warped towards the central
singularity.) In the Orion Arm, each plane collapses a region approximately
6 parsecs deep.
All these planes thicken toward the Core, thus overlapping to create one
very deep jump-accessible region. Towards the rim, the planes gradually
radiate farther away from each other, leaving spaces between, inaccessible
to any known jump drive. These intervening spaces might be called "STL
regions," or "slow zones."
Luckily, here in the Orion Arm, the jump planes are very close together,
leaving only about 1 or 2pc of slow zone between each plane.
Extremely massive stars (giants and supergiants) warp jumpspace enough to
create a slight thickening of the plane - just enough to cause it to
overlap slightly with an adjacent plane. Thus these stars provide junctions
between adjacent jump planes. Junction stars are of prime strategic
importance, as they are the only conduits in the Orion Arm for FTL movement
between jump levels.
Okay, we're getting increasingly far away from the canonical Traveller
universe here. If you want to stick to the OTU, you can use Glenn Hoppe's
original version of the theory: there's just the one jump continuum, which
collapses a region x parsecs deep into a flat plane. You might use my
version if you want an excuse to use two-dimensional maps within a
three-dimensional galaxy: you can map out sectors of space above and below
the familar maps, accessible only via the "jump bridges" around
supermassive stars. The ref is free to decide how common these bridges
would be. IMTU, there are usually between zero and 4 junction stars per
sector; some link to the sector above, some to the sector below. Since a
ship can only travel between levels via these junction stars, game play is
largely unaffected. You don't spend half your time trying to figure out
jump routes in three dimensions.
In the end, Hoppe's idea is functionally the same as the "Crumpled Table
Cloth" theory, while my variation might be the "Many Crumpled Table Cloths"
theory -- in which the multiple, layered table cloths touch each other in
certain places (giant and supergiant star systems).
A highly artificial handwave either way, but it works for me.
Best,
+ GMG +
Glenn Grant
_Northern Suns: The New Anthology of Canadian Science Fiction_
Edited by David Hartwell & Glenn Grant
now in hardcover from Tor Books
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:17:58 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
At 01:47 PM 1/30/00 -0600, you wrote:
[snip]
>So, now here's the 64 kCr question. Is there some wonderful version
>of HG that I've never seen out there that actually *has* good ship
>design rules?
What do you mean by "good"? Acurate to the point NASA could use
them, or playable while "close enough"?
>I remember being somewhat perplexed by Michel's "How to.." post of a
>couple weeks ago. The numbers he was using didn't always match what
>was printed in my copies of HG, and were *far* off in some cases.
>When he got to energy production (ep's he called them)...t'wasn't
>anywhere to be found. Then he started writing about how many ep's
>different systems *used*...huh? "Whazzat? Wherzat?" grumbled I as
>I scoured both my HG's looking for such a thing.
I have HG v2. That might be the difference.
>Anyway, I saved that post because I wanted to officially say "HUH?"
>but haven't had a chance to do it before now...so...
>
>"HUH?"
>Eris,
> batting his eyes innocently
Nice try. We don't believe you either.
I *like* HGv2, except for the part that it doesn't integrate with CT
Book2 designs worth a damn. And at low TL's, that exacerbates the problem
with the frieght rules. It didn't take me a quantum leap to work out some
fixes for both issues, so that's fine.
If you want to yack HG sometime, ICQ or catch me on IRC. That "HOW
TO" I posted is correct to my version of the HG rules.
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:39:04 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
From: "Thom Harris"
Date sent: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:36:18 -0500
I've sat on my hands for a long while on this, but just to clarify
something.
> I am starting to believe that the U.S. should go back to a more ISOLATIONIST
> stance and let all these other countries fend for themselves. Just take our
> check
> book and go home so to speak.
>
> How many countries would that effect? Yours?
Not a heck of a lot actually. For NZ the US "took its cheque book
and went home" in the early 80s when we decided that we'd rather
not be a part of the US nuclear umbrella. Thats when the US
decided not to help us against state sponsored terrorism.
Andrew etc
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/
"What do you expect from a species whose females are
always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:07:22 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
On 01/30/00 at 04:17 PM, Michel Vaillancourt said:
> Nice try. We don't believe you either.
Why not? That part of my post was dead serious.
> I *like* HGv2, except for the part that it doesn't integrate with
>CT Book2 designs worth a damn. And at low TL's, that exacerbates the
>problem with the frieght rules. It didn't take me a quantum leap to work
>out some fixes for both issues, so that's fine.
> If you want to yack HG sometime, ICQ or catch me on IRC. That
>"HOW TO" I posted is correct to my version of the HG rules.
I didn't say your "How To" was incorrect in your version, just that
I have never seen *that* version. I'm serious. Power plants are 1%
x Power Level x ship volume, ie. a level 3 is 3% of ship volume (3%
is a big difference from 9% that's where I first went "HUH?"),
prices are different too, and there is no mention of EPs. Volumes
and costs of maneuver drives are different. Weapons don't mention
EPs. Nothing mentions EPs...sounds vaguely like Striker, but that
came out *years* after HG. Whatever version *you* have isn't the
version I have, clearly.
If GDW brought out such a big change they should have made it
obvious. Changed the name or, at least, added version 2 on the
cover or something. Seeing as I already had two copies I probably
just ignored any non-obvious new version...I hate that.
Okay, seeing as I haven't seen a version 2 of HG, I'll amend my
comments to, "The version of HG's ship design and combat that I have
seen sucks big rocks." I'll stand by *that* opinion.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:49:54 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: 2300 Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1824
On 30 Jan 00, at 13:55, SD Mooney wrote:
> At 11:13 -0500 29/1/00, "Rupert Boleyn" wrote:
> >Why is it that everyone seems to think 2300AD had the same rules >set as
> TNE? It doesn't, it has it's own rules which are different from
> >everything else's. What it does have is TW2000 as background >history,
> and TW2000 2nd ed had a (D10) version of the house rules.
>
> The 2300 task system is closer to MT than TNE.
>
> As usual, the combat system was a little clunky.
I didn't find the combat system clunky, just very, very deadly. I
understand that it was toned down a little in the 2300AD rules, but
I've never seen them.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:49:54 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
On 30 Jan 00, at 5:08, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> I'm reminded of a short story (I forget the author) involving a species
> that *looks* human, but is far stronger, etc than humans, as well as much
> longer lived. They *prey* on humans. They need certain tissues from the
> human body to stay alive.
>
> The *real* fun is when the one in they story selects a victim that
> turns out to be something that preys on *his* species.
There was a Zelazny story about Vampires and their predator that
was similar to that.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:49:54 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
On 30 Jan 00, at 17:27, Pete wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:37:19 -0700, Glenn St-Germain
> wrote:
>
> >
> >>Twelve gauge shotgun loaded with double ought buckshot *and* a pack of
> >>hounds. Of course, when I was a youngster that's what we used when
> >>hunting *anything* all the way down to rabbits and squirels. Okay, maybe
> >>not 00 buck for the squirels.
> >
> >Not unless your intent was squirrel marmalade...
> >
> I had a friend who was getting annoyed by a chattering squirrel while
> trying to hunt deer. He ended up shooting the squirrel with his .300
> Winchester magnum rifle. He found a tiny bit of squirrel marmalade. ;-)
For a while my father was hunting rabbits with his .30-06. I think he
was frustrated at his lack of opportunity to go deer stalking, so he
loaded up some varmint rounds and took his deer rifle out atfer the
little bunnys. He shot one at 15 feet and the only damage it showed
was a neat little hole all the way thorugh it (the bullet didn't expand),
but one he shot at 15 yards was nothing more than a little ring of fur
around a 6" diameter hole in the ground. I think we found an ear
about 20 yards away as well.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:26:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
In mail you write:
> From: Leonard Erickson
>
>
>>I'm reminded of a short story (I forget the author) involving a species
> that *looks* human, but is far stronger, etc than humans, as well as much
> longer lived. They *prey* on humans. They need certain tissues from the
> human body to stay alive.
>>
> Gee, there are lots of stories about those critters, they're called "vampires".
Nope. I said *tissues* not blood. They don't need very much, it's just
that until you get to *really* high TLs you can't *get* at some of them
without killing the human (things like a piece of the pituitary(?)
(some gland buried inside the skull, under the brain)
>>The *real* fun is when the one in the story selects a victim that turns out
> to be something that preys on *his* species.
>>
> I think I may have read this.
The title may have been something like "Fleas".
>>One or both of these species would be an interesting add-on to Traveller.
> If anyone is *really* interested, I'll see if I can track down the story.
> It's in *something* I read in the last few months, even if it's an *old*
> story.
>>
> I'd like to know if it's the same one. I can't remember what it was...
Was the "predator predator" a female? Were her nipples some sort of
"sting"? And when the dying "predator" realized she was telepathic, did
he think at here "I wonder what preys on *you*?"
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:41:45 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: RE: MT Damage
Dear Folks -
William Barnett-Lewis asked me where Joe Fugate's MT combat example is. I'll try
and scan the thing sometime, but if you have the magazines, Joe's example is
found in Digest 12, pp 42-43.
Yo may be interested to know that Marc saw every answer posted in "Traveller
Q&A", and everything there is considered to be "official" errata/explanations
for MT.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:52:11 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: TML People
Dear Folks -
Frank asked Jory:
>> Well I just read his book, "Bolo Rising"
>> and wanted to give him a hearty "well done".
>> Once picked up and opened, this book remained in my
>> hand until the last page, some 5 hours later.
>
>So, is that 'Bolo' as in "unstoppable automated war-machine" ?
Yes. I actually managed to track down Bill's site, and it's available as one of
"The Sources" in the Traveller Jump Points, Beowulf Down. There is actually no
Traveller stuff there, but I figured Bill deserves a link anyway.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:42:30 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Aging and Dice.
>As an alternative use the ageing scheme from TNE.
>Roll 1D15*. If the roll is less than the charecteristic reduce the
>charecteristic by 1
>so at low stat levels it's less likely to be reduced but by a greater
>percentage
>of the stat. This works better for me. YMMV.
>
I can see why... you'll never die, just languish in a coma... with all
stats at 1. ;-)
I think you probably should have said "Not more than" or "Less than or
equal to"...
And the "D15" of TNE, at least as I read it, was a D16-1, for equal or
greater to avoid loss of attribute.
I like this method, even for MT.
BTW, I picked up some REAL d16's from Mr Newman a while back. I think
Bosco's may have some.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:33:29 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Pigs and Guns
>On 30 Jan 00, at 18:43, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:
>
>> They are weirdly resistant to hydrostatic shock too, a bullet will
>> often
>> not put one down but an arrow seems to kill them quickly. They literally
>> pump the blood out like a fountain.
>> A good critter for traveller would be some nasty that had a body that
>> was designed to withstand hydrostatic shock to a huge degree, the PCs pump
>> all sorts of bullets into it to no effect and a local kills it with a bow.
>> Then have them meet another without the local around.
>
>Actually IME (here's flame bait, folks) most things bigger than a
>rabbit are fairly hydrostatic shock proof. The only reliable way to drop
>something quickly is to wreck something vital - heart, aorta, etc,
>lungs or central nervous system (though if you can afford to wait the
>liver or kidneys will do). From what I've read the same actually
>applies to humans, despite what the movies show.
The kicker is that the easiest correlation to see is that weapons which
have good hydrosatic shock tend also to have large stretch cavities, which
also means they are the most likely to damage the quick-kill organs.
However, it is interesting to look at the US NIJ "One-Shot" statistics
(Last ones I saw were 1990's); They stats show 1-shot kills, 1-shot stops,
and a few other key factors; they are taken from police shootings (Both as
firer and as target). One shot refers to rounds impacting, BTW, not rounds
fired. The most effective for 1 shot stops was the .45acp. Best for kills
was either the 9mm or the .32acp, but I can't recall which. The .45 has a
large hydrostatic shock effect, and a nice large stretch cavity. With
hydrostatic-shock-enhancing rounds (Hyrdashock, Black Talon), they are
quite likely to drop someone with one shot (NIJ's stats showed 75%), but
the one-shot kills for the .45 were somewhat less. The .32acp (7.65x23mm)
has nearly the opposite problem: in order to stop someone, you pretty much
have to kill them; the .32 does this nicely to the eyes, temples, or neck;
many shots from .32 that wouldn't stop someone, however, did result in
their eventual death. BTW: it is possible to get a 1-shot kill without a
1-shot stop... these are the cases where the guy walks away, then drops
dead from the effects of the wound. Mostmid-caliber rounds (7-10mm) had
one-shot stops around 60-65%; One-shot kills somewhat less. [I only
memorized a few statistics. Sorry.]
And, at least in the early 90's, pigs were being used for evaluating
potential lethality of firearms...
Ob Trav: I've yet to see any trav games result in "realistic" "one-shot"
percentages... Especially if you separate NPC's and PC's into separate
categories... MT seems to be the closest. TNE vs PC's the absolute worst.
T4 at least got really good one-shot stops... but based upon my read of the
damage system, you CAN'T one-shot kill except by infection.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:33:24 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names
Dear Jens -
Thanks for the name list!!
BTW, I assume that the question-marks in the following:
Bj?rn (bear)
J?rgen
(etc) are those o's with two dots above (oumlats?)? I know, I've tried sending
these on the 'net before, and they either come out as something else (like
question-marks) or are interpreted as control characters, and muck up the text.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:13:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
In mail you write:
> Not a heck of a lot actually. For NZ the US "took its cheque book
> and went home" in the early 80s when we decided that we'd rather
> not be a part of the US nuclear umbrella. Thats when the US
> decided not to help us against state sponsored terrorism.
Well, the way I heard it here, NZ demanded that we not have nuclear
armed vessels in your territory. The problem is that (for very good
reasons) the US *cannot* let anyone know which nuclear *capable*
vessels actually have nukes on board. Doing so makes it *way* too easy
for anybody who wants to attack us, because it lets them know which
ships can be ignored in a first strike attack.
So, that meant that NZ had just made your territory off-limits to all
US vessels *capable* of carrying nukes (after all, if we'd sent such a
vessel into your waters, it'd be the same as saying it *wasn't*
carrying nukes, or we'd have to lie to you). Which made your ports
*worthless* to us. It also meant that (from *our* viewpoint) you'd
unilaterally abrogated the ANZAC treaties anyway. So asking for help
was just a bit out of line.
So from *our* point of view, we didn't take our check book and go home,
we were told in no uncertain terms that we weren't welcome, and that
treaty obligations didn't have to be honored.
How does this compare with the spin put on it in NZ?
ObTrav: just how differently are actions by various planetary (and
larger) governments seen by the other side.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1837
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Traveller-digest Monday, January 31 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1838
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Rules Question
Re: A new look at Gravitics
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Traveller, 2d to 3d star mapping.
Re: How small can a sophont be?
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Re: William Keith's URL and Bolos
Traveller news group, a very bad idea
Re: Request
Re: Question on starship fuel
Normal space travel
[BITS/CORE] Help needed.
RE: Ditzie and a question about TC
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Solomani loons strike back!!! :>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:48:29 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Rules Question
If a ship is grappled with another and there is enough engineers to run
both drive rooms but only enough pilots for one ship, can they jump
together? (MegaTraveller answers please)
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:51:06 +0200
From: "Giuseppe"
Subject: Re: A new look at Gravitics
> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:31:40 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: A new look at Gravitics
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > The way I use gravitics in my CT universe is as follows:
> > The manouver drives of all ships as well as the grav plates of things
like
> > air-rafts etc. are essentially engines which can create, reverse and
> > otherwise manipulate gravitic forces.
>
> > This means you can use these things to move like the classic UFO of our
age.
>
> Nope. The "classic UFO" can do things like make right angle turns at
> high speed. That requires *infinite* acceleration.
I think you jumped the gun here (and i didn't define things either, which
didn't help)
I am saying that in my TU the ships behave like UFOs, but the upper limit is
a maximum chance of accelration of 6G (Well actually 12G since they could go
from 6G forward to 6G backward).
> As long as you have an acceleration limit, even if you insulate the
> inside of the ship from the effects of the acceleration, your movement
> will be vectored. So if you are moving at a high speed in one
> direction, and start accelerating off to one side, your new vector will
> be a combination of the old vector and the steadily increasing new
> (velocity) vector. So your course will be a curve.
Sure, you can do it that way too, and often you would, but in my TU the
ships can also just go suddenly left (ie 90 degree sudden turn).
> > You can add up 6G acceleration until you approach relativistic speeds
and
> > nullify the momentum squashings that would be experienced by characters
> > inside the ship by use of the internal gravity plates, which compensate
for
> > the field being created outside the ship to provide acceleration. In my
TU
> > this has some interesting limitations for gaming purposes, mainly the
> > acceleration max for ships is that 6G at a time thing, this is so that
> > missiles can still be used. The reason given is that this kind of
> > 'countering the external with an internal field' type of solution breaks
> > down catastrophically after the 6G limit (In real life this is not true
of
> > course which is why the little Gray guys and the MIB guys with ships can
> > make 14,000G turns in a couple of secs, but that's another story).
>
> To make right angle turns and the like, you have to neutralize
> *inertia*, rather than acceleration.
True, I used the term acceleration in a confusing way, mainly because I
think of inertia merely as 'potential' or stored up velocity.
>And that makes for *very*
> different behavoir. For one thing, if you obey conservation laws, when
> you cut your drive, you'll resume travelling at the same vector you had
> when you turned it on. Which could be *very* fatal if the "intrinsic"
> velocity turns out to be high, and aimed at a nearby object. Oops!
Who said anything about cutting your drive? You wouldn't do that to
manoeuvre, and if you are referring merely to landings and take offs or
failure of the drives, then it can be assumed that the difference in inertia
is merely adjusted at any given instant by some convenient black box
property of gravitic engines/devices. After all...if they reduce people to
jam all the time they'd hardly be approved for commercial use by the TAS no?
:)
G.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:00:34 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
On 30 Jan 00, at 11:05, Steven Hudson wrote:
> So how would you properly model that using the DiceMaster (tm) rules
> system? Give examples. (10 marks)
It does that already. One of the more irritating features of the darn
game is that unless your bonus is immense (and even then you can
crap out on the crit roll) you are totally at the mercy of the dice. IMO
the range of variabilty is too great.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:00:34 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
On 30 Jan 00, at 13:50, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
> On 01/30/00 at 08:37 AM, Glenn St-Germain said:
>
> >>Twelve gauge shotgun loaded with double ought buckshot *and* a pack of
> >>hounds. Of course, when I was a youngster that's what we used when
> >>hunting *anything* all the way down to rabbits and squirels. Okay, maybe
> >>not 00 buck for the squirels.
>
> >Not unless your intent was squirrel marmalade...
>
> Pre-tenderized, but you have to watch out for the pellets when you eat
> them. ;-p
As kids we used to call wild duck "Shoot Gun Duck" because of
those little lead pellets in them :)
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:00:34 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
On 30 Jan 00, at 14:52, Glenn Grant wrote:
> So Glenn Hoppe came up with the theory that the region where jumpspace is
> accessible is itself a thin disk, thicker towards the Core, thinner
> towards the Rim. [Glenn H. seems to have long since faded from the list,
> but his theory, and my elaboration of it, might still be available on his
> "JumpSpace" web site. I don't have the URL handy, but I'm sure it's on the
> Web ring.] In this theory, the jumpspace continuum is a phenomenon
> generated by extremely massive rotating singularities -- i.e. the black
> hole at the galaxy's centre.
IIRC Anders Backman (who also seems to have faded) had also
come up with a similar theory, though he had it that J-space was the
product of a coreward civilization, and that jump drives disrupted it.
Granfather found this out and dissappered into his pocket dimension
after leaving clues for humans, etc so that when the "owners" of J-
Space turned up (the "Badies From the Core") they'd blame them,
and not look for him.
- --
Rupert Boleyn
Wellington, New Zealand
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:02:44 -0000
From: "Michael J Scanlon"
Subject: Traveller, 2d to 3d star mapping.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF6BA0.0740F460
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, I'm new to this even though I bought my first copies of the rules =
back in 1979. I've not been playing for a long time though love the idea =
of developing this gaming system into the New Millennium. I love the =
system as is so Generic, you don't need GURPs to have the beauty of =
Travellers versatility. Well that's how I feel even though I've not =
given the present day ruling sets enough time to make a judgement, =
though I do feel as though I am not alone in this mode of thinking, that =
the newer rule sets wander from the core of raw facts producing a =
simplistic ruling, with less waffle.
Back in the early eighties, as early as 1981, I had the idea of =
computerising the Traveller rule set. Which led to me putting down the =
book up until only just recently, for reasons I will bestow. So I'm back =
with a vengeance and feel this idea deserves more attention as time goes =
by, as it's a good idea.
Drawback to the ruling system, I do feel, are the mapping system and the =
simple battling system that the old rules presented. Though the old rule =
set battling rules were adaptable I feel the mapping system built upon =
2d has got to go. I feel the task for adapting the present mapping =
system into a 3d set is going to be a no mean task. Though it has to be =
done I'm sure you'll agree. Keeping as much of the originality as =
possible is in keeping with the idea that Traveller rule sets are a =
versatile lot that can represent real life situations, quite possible in =
present day or futuristic points of view.
I picked 2d to 3d as the subject matter as I have to start somewhere, so =
this is as good as any. If it were possible to have a 3d map of space =
the contours are going to look mad!!? So how about a star map in 3d =
represented on a computer screen. you know 3d imaging in 2d format on a =
screen? Well it's formidable. So OK why not go all the way and have the =
3d virtual reality imaging system showing a star map through the use of =
a pair of 3d imaging goggles, that has got to be something. The latter =
is ok, if every one is interested in playing the Traveller game, with a =
set of goggles, hooked up to a computer system, fast enough to support =
the software required.
I know I'm up for it.
OK so that's enough from me, for now. I'd be interested in reading what =
others, with similar interests, seem to think fit of my ideas and =
understanding of the game.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF6BA0.0740F460
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Hi, I'm new to this even though I bought my first =
copies of=20
the rules back in 1979. I've not been playing for a long time though =
love the=20
idea of developing this gaming system into the New Millennium. I love =
the system=20
as is so Generic, you don't need GURPs to have the beauty of Travellers=20
versatility. Well that's how I feel even though I've not given the =
present day=20
ruling sets enough time to make a judgement, though I do feel as though =
I am not=20
alone in this mode of thinking, that the newer rule sets wander from the =
core of=20
raw facts producing a simplistic ruling, with less waffle.
Back in the early eighties, as early as 1981, I had =
the idea=20
of computerising the Traveller rule set. Which led to me putting down =
the book=20
up until only just recently, for reasons I will bestow. So I'm back with =
a=20
vengeance and feel this idea deserves more attention as time goes by, as =
it's a=20
good idea.
Drawback to the ruling system, I do feel, are the =
mapping=20
system and the simple battling system that the old rules presented. =
Though the=20
old rule set battling rules were adaptable I feel the mapping system =
built upon=20
2d has got to go. I feel the task for adapting the present mapping =
system into a=20
3d set is going to be a no mean task. Though it has to be done I'm sure =
you'll=20
agree. Keeping as much of the originality as possible is in keeping with =
the=20
idea that Traveller rule sets are a versatile lot that can represent =
real life=20
situations, quite possible in present day or futuristic points of=20
view.
I picked 2d to 3d as the subject matter as I have to =
start=20
somewhere, so this is as good as any. If it were possible to have a 3d =
map of=20
space the contours are going to look mad!!? So how about a star map in =
3d=20
represented on a computer screen. you know 3d imaging in 2d format on a =
screen?=20
Well it's formidable. So OK why not go all the way and have the 3d =
virtual=20
reality imaging system showing a star map through the use of a pair of =
3d=20
imaging goggles, that has got to be something. The latter is ok, if =
every=20
one is interested in playing the Traveller game, with a set of goggles, =
hooked=20
up to a computer system, fast enough to support the software=20
required.
I know I'm up for it.
OK so that's enough from me, for now. I'd be =
interested in=20
reading what others, with similar interests, seem to think fit of my =
ideas and=20
understanding of the game.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF6BA0.0740F460--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:35:37 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
From: Rupert Boleyn
> I'd say it's more likely to be because it's too much like hard work :)
> I've seen some quite imaginative things done by pigs with their noses
> (mainly to assist in escape attempts), but in general they'd much
> rather recline in a nice muddy wallow than do anything involving effort.
While it is true that domestic swine are notoriously lazy, they
would rather rest in clean water than mud. In the wild, they
will go out of their way to kill any creature that might compete
with them for the available resources (including humans).
An adversary that outweighs you by two or three times can
be very dangerous. Add to that the trotters ("hooves") and
tushes (long, razor sharp teeth) and natural armor and you
find you have a formidable foe.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:35:52 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Here's the way I see it: If you want to start a Traveller related
Newsgroup, go ahead and start one. Those that like that
sort of thing will join you there and those who don't won't.
You don't need my permission, nor anyone else's, provided
you don't claim any link to this or any other existing list, site,
ect.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:23:25 -0800
From: "J. Paul Sanders"
Subject: Re: William Keith's URL and Bolos
At 06:32 AM 1/30/00 -0800, you wrote:
>William Keith's site is at
>http://users.sgi.net/~whkeith/index.html
>
>The race of canine enemies of humanity in William
>Keith's Bolo universe appear to be Vargr-like too so
>it does appear that Traveller has had an influence on
>his work.
Actually, a more accurate statement would be that both of the Keith
brothers strongly influenced the shaping of the Vargr in early Traveller...
not the other way around as your post seems to imply. A good example of
this would be Andrew's article in JTAS #21 entitled "Vargr Corsair Bands."
It's great to see that Bill has not forgotten his Traveller "roots."
Paul
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:40:13 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Traveller news group, a very bad idea
>Oooh, If you're thinking of setting one up I'm all for it. I also have a
>thought. Could we have it so the we could post binaries, or have a seperate
>trav-binaries NG, as we could then post spreadsheets, deckplans and other
>assorted trav related goodies there. After all, you can read the header
>before downloading...
Limited shelf live and have to dig through spam makes this a not very
attractive idea.
There are multiple unlimited space ad-paid webservers (even those that
limit to 5 or 10 meg should be enough).
Get a copy of AOLPress for quick and dirty webpages with out having to soil
your hands with actual HTML (like I do), put the spreadsheets, deckplans
and what not up and post the URL to the TML.
Also remember that there are several Traveller webrings as well
The Deckplan Webring (17 sites)
http://users.hartwick.edu/~smithw/deckring.htm
The main Traveller Webring (153 sites)
http://waystation.hypermart.net/webring/
The Gearhead WebRing (33 sites)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/3584/gearheadring.html
The Reavers' Deep Webring (4 sites)
http://reaversdeep.homepage.com/
Rivals of the Third Imperium Webring (3 sites)
http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=travellerrivals;index
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:37:33 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Request
From: Jory Earl
> Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+
> messages from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do you
> guys who don't check all the time ever keep up?
Most don't, some use the digest route and still routinely flush
several digests per month. I filter my incoming mail into a
variety of files. The TML goes into the deleted mail file and if
I don't go through it before I have to shut down the email
client, then I don't get to read the posts. This encourages me
to either go through them quickly or not worry about keeping
up with posts. When I find something worth keeping (like
Alvin's recent posts), I move them to my RPG folder.
Periodically, I go through those and convert them to HTML or
text files and save them in a non-email folder on my hard
drive.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Seamans
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Request
> From: Jory Earl
>
>
> > Oh my gawd! If I don't check this list daily, I end up with 100+
> > messages from it. 2 days and I have 300+. How in the heck do you
> > guys who don't check all the time ever keep up?
>
> During weekdays, I can only check maybe once a day. So I am qualified to
> answer this question. :)
>
> We don't.
>
> Which is exactly why people get pissy about off-topic messages from time
to
> time, and which is why if the list doesn't stay at the recent relatively
low
> level of activity I'll have no choice but to unsubscribe.
>
>
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:40:22 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
From: Giuseppe
> Err...see I was thinking about a ship getting hit with a laser whilst
within
> an atmosphere...also, I'm not sure as to the possibility of this, but in
the
> vacuum of space, what exactly would the effect of a one foot wide laser
beam
> flying through a L-Hyd tank be? I sincerely hope it wouldn't be the
creation
> of a very small and very temporary mini-sun, but could it be just that?
> Any astrophysicists out there?
The smallest mini-sun possible would have to be c. 80x the
mass of Jupiter. OTOH, maybe you are talking about
fusing the hydrogen. In order to fuse liquid hydrogen you
would have to raise its temperature by over 1e5 degrees.
I don't believe that a shipborne laser would be capable of
raising the temperature to such a degree. Even if it were
possible to transfer the required energy via laser beam, the
hydrogen atoms would not be confined and would rapidly
disperse reducing the effective temperature below that
needed to produce fusion. In short, you have nothing to
worry about in a vacuum (aside from loosing some fuel).
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
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__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 00 07:09:51 +0000
From: Fred Hood
Subject: Normal space travel
Ingo Heinscher wrote:
>Ok, there is the military aspect. Here, it is not necessary for the
>shortcut to be economic. This might indeed be a problem. For a
>large-scale-war lasting at least four years (which one of the opponents
>would have to know at the beginning of it).
> (In middle-scale-wars, the strategic environment would be too dynamic
>to allow planning several years in advance. And small-scale-wars _have_
>STL involved, as the boardgame Imperium demonstrates; but here no
>"shortcuts" are
>required.)
>
> So let's look at the wars in Traveller history which could come into
>question.
>- -Interstellar Wars? Perhaps, but the Terrans initially wanted
>economically interesting systems, and some enclave deep in Vilani space,
>conquered at high losses via sublight vessels, wouldn't have been. From a
>Vilani standpoint, the STL crew would have been judged to an early death
>and life-long isolation for the STL crews. Sounds not very Vilani-like to me.
Having played Imperium many times, one of the most effective tactics for
the Terrans is to use monitors travelling sublight to breakout from their
box. This is especially true on the Barnard front. I have always assumed
that the crews were regularly exchanged via small jumpship.
Fred.
"kind hearted people might think there was some ingenious way to disarm
or defeat an enemy without too much bloodshed, and might imagine this is
the true goal of the art of war. Pleasant as it sounds this is a fallacy
that must be exposed"
Clausewitz, On War, page 1
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:01:33 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: [BITS/CORE] Help needed.
Hi all,
I'm presently preparing a website update for BITS/CORE and am going
to be adding a page with details of authors; I need a small JPEG
(optional) of each author, a short biographical paragraph, and the
URL of their homepage. The aim is to have this completed as soon as
possible, so if anyone is in touch with the following, or is on the
list, please can you ask them to contact me?
I realise in some cases that I've asked for this information before,
but I lost a lot of material a week ago when I had to reformat and
re-install my OS.
Example of Bio:
Craig Berry is a software architect residing in Los Angeles,
California. He has been playing Traveller since its original
publication. His most significant Traveller-related achievements are
having run the THUDDD starship design competitions for two years,
writing portions of 101 Religions, providing technical advice on
Fire, Fusion, and Steel II, and indoctrinating his younger brother
Douglas (now a prolific Traveller author) at the tender age of
eleven. His daughter Lenore is already in training to carry on this
family tradition.
List of Authors and Artists:
- -Roger Barr - 101 Patrons
- -Michael Barry - Milieu 0, 101 Religions
- -Peter Brenton - 101
Religions
- -David Burden - The Long Way Home, Milieu 0, Pocket
Empires
- -Timothy Collinson - 101 Religions, The Traveller Bibliography
- -Thad Coons - 101 Patrons
- -Stuart L Dollar - Milieu 0, Pocket Empires
- -Dave Elrick - Milieu
0
- -Jo Grant - Milieu 0, Pocket Empires, 101 Cargos, 101 Plots
- -Lesley
Grant - 101 Cargos, 101 Plots
- -Harold Hale - 101 Religions
- -Bruce
Johnson - 101 Patrons
- -Peter Newman - 101 Lifeforms
- -William Prankard - 101 Religions
- -Rob
Prior - 101 Starships for GURPS Traveller, 102 Vehicles, 101
Religions, 101 Patrons, QSDS Software, Infini-V Software, Imperial
Grand Survey v2 software, GT Shipyard Software
- -Steve Quick - 101
Lifeforms
- -Paul Radford - 101 Lifeforms
- -Marcus Rowland - 101
Cargos
- -Hans Rancke-Madsen - 101 Religions
- -Joseph E Walsh - Milieu
0, Pocket Empires
- -Jeff Zeitlin - 101 Religions
Cheers,
Dom (BITS Webmaster)
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------
BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.
http://www.bits.org.uk/ mailto:bits@bits.org.uk
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.
BITS and CORE are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.
All rights reserved.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:18:00 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: RE: Ditzie and a question about TC
At 11:15 -0500 30/1/00, "Jeff &Michelle Norton" wrote:
>Does anyone know who origionaly created Ditzie? I remember recieving a HUGE
>file on Familie Spofulam, but it was lost in a MASSIVE system upgrade I had
>to do. I would like to touch base again..
Famille Spofulam was created by Roderick Darroch Elliott. I'm not
sure if Ditzie is his specific creation though.
There is an enormous file on FS at BITS (http://www.bits.org.uk/) on
the archive page.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:43:27 EST
From: GaryBartz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
How dare you make sense. This is the TML. You must insult the US, and any
conservative or religious people who may be on the list.
As a question, I enjoy the discussions of Traveller on this list, but I
wonder when it became a traveller standard to impose political or religious
or sexual views on all the readers? That has never been a staple of my games,
in fact politics has only played a major role three or four times ever.
The fact that living in Cuba, ruled by the over aged bearded army guy, sucks
may be a good point for a game world. Any argument that America is evil for
not trading with a sworn enemy leads only to political viewpoint arguments
that no one will win, and that are better suited to another list.
In a message dated 1/30/00 2:40:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
<< I agree with you on the law, but the sheer necessity of having to pay
American lawyers because of something that you do outside the States that
is perfectly in accordance with the laws in all the countries where the
action is taking place proves that the American embargo of Cuba isn't just
for Americans.
>>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:45:08 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Here goes the "US vs the rest of the English speaking world" flamewar
again....
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:05:56 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Solomani loons strike back!!! :>
>From: "Thom Harris"
>Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
...
>Like I said before, I don't agree with a lot of the rules the U.S. has but
>it is still one of the PREMIERE places in the world to live, bar none!!!!!
There's a sentence that wants editing for clarity :)
...
>worry about them anymore. With the present state of affairs in the world today
>I am starting to believe that the U.S. should go back to a more ISOLATIONIST
>stance and let all these other countries fend for themselves. Just take our
>check book and go home so to speak.
Quite possible, but also likely not a very good idea - of all the states
that have tried that, they've all pretty much had to return to the arena
to protect whatever it is that they describe as their interests.
The Chinese, OTOH, would just love for that to happen...
(As would a fairly voluble portion of the Korean & Japanese, etc.,
although for entirely different reasons)
To put it in context, take a look at the various OTU sectors of client
or small independent states, either between 3I & K'kree or Rimward of the
Zho's - to disengage unilaterally will be to create a tendency for others
to increase their own influence, which will be expensive at best to attempt
to reverse. Or if there were such a region between the 3I and the Sphere,
would it really be prudent to let the Solomani order it as they saw fit?
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1838
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To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Monday, January 31 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1839
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
Re: Swine and Villains
Re: Corruption (was Re: Request)
Re: Whither HG?
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1833
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Re: Question on starship fuel
Re: Corruption (was Re: Request)
Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
Re: The d3 Question
Imperial Murder Rate (was Swine and Villains or somesuch)
Re: OT Pavis was Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Re: A new look at Gravitics
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Subject: RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:02:35 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
...
><< and excluding fruit-loops who don't understand "secure air space" >>
>
>those "fruit loops" were in international air space as proven by cruise liner
>passengers cam corders and radar tracking....Everything will be fine with the
>US and Cuba as soon as that old bastard dies...
ISTR reading that they had illegally entered Cuban airspace? I also
doubt that the emigre leadership is going to be keen on not simply being
given control of the country, but that's their problem...
>Ob Trav: Anagathics!...:-)
It's the cigars! Everything since the Revolution has been in aid
of preventing this crucial resource from reaching the US!! :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:01:34 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
>From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
>Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
...
>>>I bet it would be easy for a serial killer to operate in the 3I. With
>>>the vast population there are probably a million murders a day. How
>>
>> Heck, that sounds like the original Porozlo :>
>
>Um, who?
Hi-Pop (A!), stellar TL world near Rhylanor in the SM; _lots_ of people...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:14:27 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Corruption (was Re: Request)
On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:54:25 -0500 (EST), shadow@krypton.rain.com
(Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>But getting back to more "traditional" forms of "corruption", try
>things like these.
>Next time the PCs land on a planet with a "xxx Bureaucracy" type
>government (or any of several other types) with a *high* law level,
>and they have to deal with some clerk, have a list of the *official*
>fee schedule for "bribes" of various sorts posted on the wall!
>You'll have fun drawing up the possible "special services" fees and
>shock a few players. Especially when they find out that the fees are
>fixed. No paying more and you get laughed at for trying to pay less.
>In fact *trying* to pay more may get you in trouble.
>At lower law levels, bribes, if part of the system, will be more
>flexible.
>Just remember that "bribes" are *normal* in some cultures. Just as much
>as they are forbidden in others.
You can get quite creative with what the bribes are called, too -
just off the top of my head, they can be
- administrative expediting fees
- consultation fees
- prioritization fees
- differential defrayments
- information surcharges
and I'll bet that the folks here can come up with other good
ones...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:29:04 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Whither HG?
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
>Subject: Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
...
>If GDW brought out such a big change they should have made it
>obvious. Changed the name or, at least, added version 2 on the
>cover or something. Seeing as I already had two copies I probably
>just ignored any non-obvious new version...I hate that.
They simply re-issued the LBB in 1980, with a note on the credits
page explaining the changes. FWIW, the changed rules (not chargen)
were serialized in JTAS.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:16:01 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>If anyone wanted a starting point for a Traveller campaign, the
>Nyotekundo(?) and Aurore Sourcebooks are a good bet - you don't need
>a lot of work to convert the background. The Nyotekundo(?) sourcebook
>details incidents around a mass driver based mining station, and
>Aurore is one of the best SF worlds developed for adventures.
>
>When people describe Traveller as 'hard SF' I always smile and think
>of 2300, the *real* hard SF game.
>
>Dom
Very rarely does a campaign sourcebook come along that I will recommend,
but Aurore is one of the best RPG efforts I've ever seen. An interesting and
believable world that has enough space for fleshing out and enough room for
GM creativity, even if you don't intend on playing 2300 you should buy it. I
put it up there with Pavis and The Big Rubble.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:52:01 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1833
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
>Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
...
>>Not to mention the fact that the chargen system was a game in itself.
>>Hundreds of hours of solo play and planning.
>
>You know this is an aspect that Marc and the rest of GDW seemed to
>forget about. Many a time I'd pull out my books and roll up
>characters and send them through careers creating stories for them.
Several of Marc's writings suggest this sort of thing as one of the ways to
play Traveller solitaire.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:58:19 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
newsgroup bad...too much spam, too many spambots, besides, nowdays it's
'always September' on UseNET.
If you do post a RFD, I'll have to brave the news.* newsgroups and vote
against it.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:38:44 GMT
From: Postmark Design Bureau
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
David J. Golden wrote:
> Suggestion: I believe it's possible to have a standard text file sent
> out to a new subscriber automatically, depending on the mailing list
> software. I propose we start a "mini-FAQ" to go there. It would
> include a pointer to the full-up online FAQ, but it would also
> contain at least a brief summary of some of the major items. Topics
> could include
It is indeed possible. IIRC the TML does send out such a message when
you join. It includes the unsubscription details and probably a pointer
to the FAQ.
Adding a mini FAQ sounds a good idea.
Unfortunately, I don't have the...yes I do - I just have to run my old
mail program...
onelist seems to use a generic welcome message. MPGN and qrc both seem
to have customised welcome messages, although neither pointed to the FAQ.
I don't know what imagiconline does.
which is annoying, since that's the TML host.
- --
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division
"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:21:58 GMT
From: Postmark Design Bureau
Subject: Re: Question on starship fuel
Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:
>
> I don't think this includes *Carrying* water as fuel, I see it as saying
> it cracks the fuel in the purifier and stores it as L-Hyd. I meant rules
> for water tankage, what the effects would be. It would be good shielding
> for a start wouldn't it?
So my answer was only 80% complete. ;-)
for reference, in MT, check page 60 of the Referee's Manual
(Fuel and Miscellaneous section) This refers explicitly to allowing
any ship that can land on the surface of a planet to load unrefined
fuel from a body of water.
My take would be:
Designing a fuel tank to carry both water and LHyd would be difficult
especially if you are repeatedly changing between them.
A ship on the surface of a planet could probably put water in an empty
dual purpose tank that had previously had LHyd with little problem.
Putting LHyd in a tank that had previously had water would pose more
problems (like making sure all the water was gone.)
The next problem is that there are lots of hints in canon that you
need pure H2 for your power plant and jump drive. Possibly you actually
need a certain amount of D2, but certainly no H2O unless you want to
risk a mis-jump (H2O counts as unrefined fuel.)
So the water in your fuel tanks needs to be purified before you can jump
and you don't have much time to do this. IIRC 1 hour seems correct since
you don't have anywhere to put the processed fuel. So calculate the
size of a standard plant normally and multiply size, cost, power, etc by 6.
Of course, this depends on how you use the jump fuel IYTU. If the LHyd
is normally consumed in a minute or less at the point of jump, then you'd
need a purification plant capable of processing your jump fuel at over
300 times the normal rate, which would make the plant bigger than the
fuel tank!
This all suggests that the best use of water fuel is in a reserve tank
to enable a ship to do multiple jumps.
The economic benefits of reserve tanks are extremely limited since for
most routes you would be saving at best a day or so per jump compared
with stopping off at intermediates to refuel and the resulting ship
would have half the cargo capacity.
- --
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division
"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:16:55 GMT
From: Postmark Design Bureau
Subject: Re: Corruption (was Re: Request)
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > I am forced to wonder with only slow X-boat traffic, how the
> > Third Imperium can maintain it's control of out-lying
> > systems/subsectors? Surely the Imperial Navy isn't so large
> > they can police everywhere? From the Adventure modules I've seen,
> > there hasn't been a lot of 'corruption' on the local government
> > scene, as compared to what I think it probably should be; after
> > all, power corrupts and everyone wants a piece of the pie.
>
> Keep in mind that as long as the local government pays its taxes on
> time and adheres to the (rather small number of) Imperial laws, the
> Imperium doesn't *care* about how local affairs are handled.
Unlike, for example, the European Union, the Imperium seem to raise
taxes in one part to subsidise the activities of citizens in another.
Thus the average planet doesn't have cash inflows from the Imperial
coffers to cause corruption - the only corruption is sourced locally.
The exception to this being the provision and supply of the Naval
and support services. These are directed via the Megacorporations
and corruption there doesn't tend to affect the PCs directly
- --
Phil Kitching, http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Products Division
"Microwaving halfbaked ideas from across the galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:29:52 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
Was written:
><< A good critter for traveller would be some nasty that had a body that
> was designed to withstand hydrostatic shock to a huge degree, the PCs pump
> all sorts of bullets into it to no effect and a local kills it with a bow.
> Then have them meet another without the local around.
In a long dead D&D game down in Texas we had a critter called a pigmy
javalina. They were 15 to 20 pounds in weight, would eat anything living
or freshly dead and traveled in large migratory hunting packs. They could
only jump about knee high to a human. They had large sharp scissoring tusks
that they used to ham string their prey. Everyone who could afford it wore
hip boots. The pjs lived in coordination with another critter, the
screaming tree leaper. This beast was about the size of a large spider
monkey. The pigmy javalina would flush large prey out and the screaming
tree leaper would scream and leap down on its victim wrapping its arms, legs
and tail around its victim's head and neck. It would then drive its beak,
which was shaped like a woodpecker's, into its victim's skull. When it
succeeded in cracking the skull it would eat the brain. Its scream required
a save against fear or be subject to momentary paralysis. Everyone who
could afford it and could do so wore a helmet. There were normally four or
five in a band.
With a little effort these could be very nasty Traveller beasties.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:03:13 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
Was written:
><< and excluding fruit-loops who don't understand "secure air space" >>
>
>those "fruit loops" were in international air space as proven by cruise
liner
>passengers cam corders and radar tracking....Everything will be fine with
the
>US and Cuba as soon as that old bastard dies...
Several points to be made:
1. Flying up to the edge of Cuban airspace and then flying along it if only
in part just to piss Castro off is not a good idea. The whole situation
reminds me of story of the neighborhood cat who liked to bait the chained
bulldog. It would stay just out of the dog's reach and drive it nuts. One
day the dog's chain snapped...
2. Sorry to burst your bubble regards when the bearded bastard dies but
Raoul Castro, his younger brother, is currently waiting in the wings. He
has firm connections to the military and is said to be a Marxist/Leninist of
the old school. Flip side of has happened since Mas Canosa died last year
in Miami.
3. Reminds me of the evening of the day Viet Nam fell. I was a grad student
and was with the undergraduate daughter of one of our senior diplomats to
the USSR. Two of the foreign graduate students came up to us and one said
"I bet you can't guess where we are from. I'll give you a clue we don't
have a country any more." She cried and I've been pissed off ever since.
Pops was a Marine and had done two tours in Nam. Damned near came home in a
bag the second time. I had lost a cousin walking point, an uncle and a host
of family friends and these guys were safe here in the US complaining we
didn't do enough. Taught me one thing, there are things in this life you
can't do for others. Things that they must do for themselves. Same for the
old Cuban exiles, the ones who back in the beginning of this mess should
have taken Castro down when they had the chance. They've sat safe in Miami
for years screwing up US foreign policy year after year. The old ones just
plot and plot. I know, I worked for one for four long years. Crazy as a
bed bug but rich as a lord.
4. What has any of this to do with Traveler? How about a plot seed where
you have two habitable near earth like planets in the same system. One
planet's government is a repressive totalitarian state controlled by a cabal
of elderly leaders the other a more "enlightened" government which would
like the other one to just go away but is stuck trying to appease the whims
of a powerful group of exiles. Small child becomes a political football.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:08:12 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: The d3 Question
I also bought a pair of round six-siders and like you I use the backgammon
dice for shock value while rolling hits. :) I also picked up some of those
D&D dice that roll passages, deathtraps, etc. You should see people's faces
when you roll a die and it comes up with a skull with a large bolt through
it..:)
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson"
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: The d3 Question
>
> I also have a pair of *round* "6-siders" (they have a rolling weight
> inside, and "pockets" for it to snag in. And if I'd still had it by the
> time I got into gaming, I might have used the old plastic roullette
> wheel I used to own...
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:37:51 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Imperial Murder Rate (was Swine and Villains or somesuch)
Pete said:
>> I bet it would be easy for a serial killer to operate in the 3I. With
>> the vast population there are probably a million murders a day.
Terry Carlino Said, in response:
> I think that you're basing your premise of murder rates too much on
> modern western (U.S.) civilization. Murder rates in Japan are a tenth
> of the rates in the U.S. Rates in most of Europe (Not counting the
> areas of ethnic cleansing) are a third or a fourth of the U.S. rate.
> Australia's rate is half the rate in the U.S.
What's the population of the Imperium, anyhow? It is possible, of course,
that his murder rate might come out to be lower than you're thinking. :)
Just as a little exercise, I decided to work it out:
I ended up with a population of around 19 trillion in the Imperium, based on
the number of worlds (around 11,000) and the average population according to
the population tables (which could be wrong, I did it rather quickly). If
I'm right on that figure, and I'm not claiming that I am 100% correct, then
Pete's number of murders comes out to something like 1.9 murders per 100,000
people, per year.
That's below the murder rate of many countries, according to the U.N.
figures which were published back in '98 (which were actually for 1996, but
they're the only ones which I happened to have handy).
That figure is significantly higher than the one which was reported for
Japan (about 3 times as high), but actually a little lower than New
Zealand's. The Imperium's murder rate is significantly less than that which
was reported for the U.S. in 1996. In fact, if my figures are correct, the
number of murders per 100,000 is *much* closer to that of Western Europe
than that of the United States.
The U.S. was listed as having 9.4 murders per 100,000 people in 1996.
Somewhere around 4,900,000 Imperial citizens would have to be murdered every
day in order for the murder rates to be comparable.
I suspect that Pete came up with the number off of the top of his head,
though, so your own mileage may vary quite a bit. :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:17:35 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: OT Pavis was Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>At 11:13 -0500 29/1/00, William Barnett-Lewis wrote:
>> > I recently
>> > indulged in the reprint of Pavis and Big Rubble because of this.
>>Ain't it exquisite? I've been telling people that if you only want to buy
>>one Glorantha book, that is the one to get. I wish I were half so
>>creative...
>
>Yes. It looks superb - I did buy the RQ3 River of Cradles and Sun
>County as well, but the original focuses somewhat differently.
>Dom
They're set a little later and there's less of the 'frontier' feel to
them. The best things to come out of AH though, IMHO.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:39:28 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
At 10:53 30.01.00 -0500, you wrote:
> I liked Swordy's newsgroup proposal because his was going to be a
>private news server hosted by Downport.com,
(snip)
BTW: What's become out of this? (I had unsubscribed for a while...)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:39:23 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
At 09:07 30.01.00 -0500, you wrote:
> Sorry, didn't mean this to come across as an attack.
(snip)
No problem.
>Again, I wasn't at all trying to stifle you--it was simply an
>observation that certain topics come up repeatedly (on about a 3-6
>month cycle, I'd estimate), and it might help newcomers to know their
>question had already been asked and answered before.
Well, a _mailing-list_ isn't the kind of place to archive all its postings,
is it?
:)
(No, I'm not going to start this discussion again.)
- --
"This was not meant to be an aggresssion against the Siru Zirka. But we had
to organize our affairs a bit more efficiently. To be honest, we have had
to do this for almost 300 years by now."
unknown Terran politician, -2398 Imp
;-) ingo heinscher
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:39:37 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: A new look at Gravitics
At 18:06 30.01.00 +0200, you wrote:
>The way I use gravitics in my CT universe is as follows:
(snip)
>This means you can use these things to move like the classic UFO of our age.
>You can add up 6G acceleration until you approach relativistic speeds
BTW: One SF author (Niven?) postulated that interstellar gases would limit
STL travel to about 0.7 to 0.8 c... an idea that I like.
(snip)
>and
>nullify the momentum squashings that would be experienced by characters
>inside the ship by use of the internal gravity plates, which compensate for
>the field being created outside the ship to provide acceleration.
Which indicates that the grav compensation only works for ship-generated
impulses, not one createdby hits, rams etc.
(snip)
>Missiles in my TU are all able to 'skip' in and out of jumpspace by use of
>tiny jump-like drives, that are completely unsuitable to transport anything
>living at all (the effects of jump-skipping are deadly to any organism) or
>anything inorganic for that matter beyond the distance of 1 light second.
Uh, I think that's dangerous: One could come to the idea that if you put
yourself into cryostasis, you could use a "stutterwarp"* kind of jump
drive. Your assumption contradicts with an axiom of the "official"
Traveller universe: "Every jump, how long it ever is, takes 170(+/-10%)
hours." And this is IMO for good reasons, since by your way, a faster type
of travel than jump space would suddenly exist. (Why not use automatic
robot Xboats with "stutterwarp"?)
>Also, the way that a ship with gravitics would travel between stars is to
>wormhole which effectively, according to classical physics anyway, takes no
>time, so in order to comply with the traveller idea of 1week/jump, we have
>to say that wormholing is also damaging to living creatures and instead
>jump-space is used, meaning that a jump drive is a completely separate and
>different tech to gravitic technology and that gravitic tech does not permit
>time-dilation effects (as it would in real life) again, due to some
>disturbing but deadly consequences on living things.
A little bit too artificial for my personal taste...
* I am not speaking of any TNE tchnology, don't even know them.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:55:07 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Ingo Heinscher wrote:
>
> At 09:07 30.01.00 -0500, you wrote:
> > Sorry, didn't mean this to come across as an attack.
> (snip)
>
> No problem.
>
> >Again, I wasn't at all trying to stifle you--it was simply an
> >observation that certain topics come up repeatedly (on about a 3-6
> >month cycle, I'd estimate), and it might help newcomers to know their
> >question had already been asked and answered before.
>
> Well, a _mailing-list_ isn't the kind of place to archive all its postings,
> is it?
> :)
> (No, I'm not going to start this discussion again.)
>
Ah, but the TML _does_ archive all its postings (at least the digest
versions). I don't recall how to access the archive, but it's online
somewhere. (I archive just about everything anyway, in subfolders
labeled by month.)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:51:52 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Subject: RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
In mail you write:
> Just for the record, I'm not real happy with the policy the U.S. has
> concerning Cuba!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank G. Pitt"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 7:43 PM
> Subject: RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>>
> SOME PARTS SNIPPED, WHERE APPROPRIATE....
>>>
>>> The US takes it upon itself to act as a pirate when it comes to Cuba.>
>>>
>>> A company I used to work for in New Zealand was exporting radio
>>> communications equipment to Cuba in the early nineties. Some of it
>>> was on a ship that had not intended to dock in the US, but was
>>> forced to do so due to weather conditions or engine trouble or some
>>> similar unforseen circumstance.
>>>
>>> The US customs "confiscated" (i.e: stole) this radio equipment off
>>> the boat because it was bound for Cuba. Though they had absolutely
>>> no legal right to do so under either US or international law, our
>>> legal advice was that the cost of the equipmnet (some tens of
>>> thousands of dollars ) was less than the amount of lawyers fees we'd
>>> have to pay to try and get the stuff back.
>>>
>>> This a classic example of why us non-US citizens don't like the US and
>>> consider it a fascist bully.
>>
>> Spoken pretty boldly for someone who owes at least in some small
>> part, their freedom based on past U.S. actions. If we were truly
>> fascist, why didn't we just take over NZ, to "protect it", after
>> WWII? I too believe that the U.S. goes too far but, in this
>> particular case you know and I know that the captain of that ship
>> KNEW the U.S. rules and STILL chose to dock there. Why aren't you
>> hammering him for being stupid? Those rules have been in effect for
>> 35 years.
>I suggest you sit down and *think*. What he complained about is the
>fact that the captain did indeed know the rules AND THAT THOSE RULES
>*DON'T* ALLOW WHAT THE CUSTOMS SERVICE DID!
Excuse me, who the fuck are you to yell at me? Did you even read my mail
or just skim it looking for things to shoot down. Maybe you should follow
your own advise and sit down and *think*.
>As he noted, neither US law, nor international maritime law (which,
>being set by treaty ranks right up there with the Constitution) allows
>confiscation of cargo that is not destined for the US! *Especially* in
>the case of a vessel in distress...
Not true. It is in U.S. law that items can be confiscated if brought into
U.S. territorial waters that are destined for Cuba.....Check it out......
Some references:
http://www.state.gov/www/regions/wha/cuba/helms.html
Libertad Act of 1996
Provisions
Title I strengthened sanctions against the current Cuban Government.
Among many other provisions, it codified the U.S. embargo on trade
and financial transactions which had been in effect pursuant to a
Presidential proclamation since the Kennedy Administration.
http://www.la.mvla.k12.ca.us/LC/CubaPoli/cuba_6/cuba_6a.htm
Under the Helms Burton law U.S. citizens would be allowed to file
lawsuits in U.S. courts against international companies believed to
be using, for profit, property confiscated by Castro's government in
the early years of the revolution. This law applies to U.S. companies
as well as to foreign companies operating in their own countries.
Some 5,900 properties and more than 100 international firms could
be affected by the law.
This law has been severely criticized by people in other countries.
Canada alluded to the hypocrisy of the law, when John Godfrey
and Pete Miliken, members of parliament, introduced legislation
that would allow Canadian people to sue U.S. citizens for
compensation of property confiscated by the U.S. government
in 1776 after the American revolution.
http://www.closeup.org/cuba.htm#overview
1962
U.S. sanctions tightened. President Kennedy bars from U.S. ports any
vessel engaged in trade with Cuba. In addition, all financial transactions
with Cuba are banned, except for family remittances.
>If they company had chosen to waste the money fighting it, they could
>have gotten some customs officials *jailed*. Assuming, of course, that
>the trial went by the *law*.
There you go again, check the laws and presidential decrees concerning
the U.S. and Cuban relations......The U.S. has declared trade interdiction
as part of it's sanctions against Cuba. Me thinks some of it goes back to
the Monroe Doctrine.
>> Like I said before, I don't agree with a lot of the rules the U.S.
>> has but it is still one of the PREMIERE places in the world to live,
>> bar none!!!!!
>And is doing it's damnedest to *not* be, mostly by ignoring its own
>laws when they prove "inconvenient".
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow
I'll defend your right to say that for you Leonard (and did actively for
20 years) since you can't......
If you have anything more to say to me, please take it to private mail.
Thank You!
thomharr@mediaone.net
Thom Harris
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1839
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    Traveller-digest      Monday, January 31 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 1840

    (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
    All rights reserved.

    The following topics are covered in this digest:

    OT: Seems you're all watching the superbowl...
    Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
    Re: Ditzie and a question about TC
    Bolo design (was re: Request)
    Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
    RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
    re: Serial Killers
    Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
    Fw: Rules Question
    Re: How small can a sophont be?
    Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT
    Re: A new look at gravitics
    SEC: UNCLASSIFIED X Files and RPGers
    SEC: UNCLASSIFIED School NPC - Old Bill the Cripple
    'Roos
    RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
    Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
    RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
    Re: How small can a sophont be?
    Re: Fw: Rules Question

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 02:24:46 -0000
    From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk>
    Subject: OT: Seems you're all watching the superbowl...

    Well the list is either down, or you're all watching the super bowl, as the
    last post was received here at 21:55 GMT, about 5 minutes before the live
    coverage began here on Sky Sports...

    As I don't get to see it till tomorrow night (and then only extended
    highlights... grrr) could you kind sophonts please refrain from mentioning
    the result... <g>

    ObTrav: Will the Regina Rams beat the Trin Titans in the Spinward Marches
    Gravball Finals....

    Matt

    Matthew Bond
    mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk
    www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html
    - --------------------------------------------------------------
    "To hold a man who runs past you is one thing...
    ...To grab him by the facemask is quite another!"
    - --------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:51:54 -0500
    From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net>
    Subject: Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)

    You have two copies of the 1979 version of High Guard?  You're sitting on a
    gold mine!

    Seriously, though.  Relatively few copies of the first edition were
    published.  Since all of the changes to the ship system were published in
    JTAS previously, and since more than half of the book was exactly the same
    as the first edition, GDW did not make any notation, except on the inside of
    the cover, telling about the altered rules.

    > If GDW brought out such a big change they should have made it
    > obvious.  Changed the name or, at least, added version 2 on the
    > cover or something.  Seeing as I already had two copies I probably
    > just ignored any non-obvious new version...I hate that.
    >
    > Okay, seeing as I haven't seen a version 2 of HG, I'll amend my
    > comments to, "The version of HG's ship design and combat that I have
    > seen sucks big rocks." I'll stand by *that* opinion.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:39:44 -0500
    From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net>
    Subject: Re: Ditzie and a question about TC

    TC went for 13 issues and folded, in the red I believe.

    - ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Jeff &Michelle Norton" <jmnorton@earthlink.net>
    > And, what ever happened to Traveller Cronicle? I just saw a bunch on EBAY.
    > Is it still in print?

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:05:13 -0800 (PST)
    From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Bolo design (was re: Request)

    >From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
    >Subject: Re: Request

    >Great idea, but would they really be cost-effective?  Wouldn't
    >the Third Imperium get better results using other means?  After

    >all, a Mark 31 Bolo is essentially a dreadnought on tracks.

    Has anyone completed a Bolo design using any of the design
    systems (Striker; Megatraveller; Fire, Fusion & Steel)?  I tried
    a few when I was younger and had more free time, but they were
    always too much work for me (and I'm not really a gearhead,
    anyway).

    - --Glenn
    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
    http://im.yahoo.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:09:48 -0800
    From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
    Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!

    >From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
    >Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
    >
    >Here goes the "US vs the rest of the English speaking world" flamewar again....

      What do you mean, "rest of"? Oh, is that the language you're supposed
    to be using? :)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:11:12 -0800 (PST)
    From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com>
    Subject: RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!

    >From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
    >Subject: RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!

    >A company I used to work for in New Zealand was exporting radio
    >communications equipment to Cuba in the early nineties. Some of
    >it was on a ship that had not intended to dock in the US, but
    >was forced to do so due to weather conditions or engine trouble

    >or some similar unforseen circumstance.
    >
    >The US customs "confiscated" (i.e: stole) this radio equipment
    >off the boat because it was bound for Cuba. Though they had
    >absolutely no legal right to do so under either US or
    >international law, our legal advice was that the cost of the
    >equipmnet (some tens of thousands of dollars ) was less than
    the
    >amount of lawyers fees we'd have to pay to try and get the
    >stuff back.

    1) Lawyers' fees?  Come on, send in the special forces to take
    that stuff back.  That might even be cheaper than legal fees.

    2) Maybe New Zealand would just seize a like amount of cargo off
    a U.S. ship in port and let the U.S. spend lawyers' fees or send
    in the SEALS or just let it all end up in the world court.

    - --Glenn

    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
    http://im.yahoo.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:44:44 +0000
    From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
    Subject: re: Serial Killers

    At 14:38 -0500 30/1/00, "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:
    > >>>
    >I have a hard time imagining serial killers being that organized.  They
    >generally are solitary and paranoid.

    There's an interesting convention of them in the Sandman sequence...
    (The Doll's House)

    > >I'm reminded of a short story (I forget the author) involving a species
    >that *looks* human, but is far stronger, etc than humans, as well as much
    >longer lived. They *prey* on humans. They need certain tissues from the
    >human body to stay alive.
    ><snip>
    >The Camarilla, anyone?  Delta Green?

    ;-)

    Symbionts maybe?
    The Corinthian?

    Dom

    - ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
    "We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
    can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
    http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:21:36 +1100
    From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au>
    Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!

    >1) Lawyers' fees?  Come on, send in the special forces to take
    >that stuff back.  That might even be cheaper than legal fees.
    >
    >2) Maybe New Zealand would just seize a like amount of cargo off
    >a U.S. ship in port and let the U.S. spend lawyers' fees or send
    >in the SEALS or just let it all end up in the world court.
    >
    >--Glenn

        Are you kidding?! The French would be seriously upset if you just went
    into the docks and created mayhem, like say, sinking a ship. They see that
    as their own turf.
        Down here in the antipodes we often feel a tad resentful of our friends
    in the big league, but we get our own back.
        Xena, warrior princess
        Neighbours
        Etc
        etc.
        Our crummy television will conquer the world!

        Jim (Oz)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:34:13 +1100
    From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au>
    Subject: Fw: Rules Question

    >    If a ship is grappled with another and there is enough engineers to run
    >both drive rooms but only enough pilots for one ship, can they jump
    >together? (MegaTraveller answers please)
    >    Jim

        'Nother question, if you are attacked by a Pirate, is it possible to
    legally end up in control of the ship if you win? Can a merchant that beats
    the Pirate retain ownership of the attacking vessel in other words.
        What would the legal position of both parties be?
        What if the pirates claimed to be Bounty Hunters who 'made a mistake'?
        Jim again

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:26:43 -0800
    From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net>
    Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?

    From: Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella <xrp@sierratel.com>
    > As far as intelligence in herbivores go, nobody has mentioned swine. Are
    > they omnivores? I know they can and will eat nearly anything, but I
    thought
    > they were technically an herbivore. They are very intelligent. Of course
    > their hooves make tool use problematic. ;)

    Swine are omnivores.  As you say, they can and will eat
    nearly anything.  Swine eat pretty much the same sort of
    things that humans do, except for cattails (they would
    rather starve than eat cattails).  Whatever stands still or they
    can catch, they will eat.  Swine are pretty amazing hunters
    and make very dangerous prey, ask anyone who has hunted
    razorbacks or havalena.  In spite of the trotters ("hooves"), I
    have seen swine, both domestic and wild use tools with their
    mouths.

    One of the early lessons I learned about domesticated swine
    is never let them see you opening the latch on their pen
    unless it is a lock and key arrangement.  I have seen them
    open some fairly sophisticated latches.  How did they figure
    it out?  By watching a careless human do it.
    - --
    Jason
    ______________________________________________
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    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:43:30 -0800
    From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net>
    Subject: Re: The strange Pig Discussion, new levels in OT

    eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:

    > On 01/30/00 at 08:37 AM,  Glenn St-Germain <cos90@powersurfr.com> said:
    >
    > >>Twelve gauge shotgun loaded with double ought buckshot *and* a pack
    > >>of hounds.  Of course, when I was a youngster that's what we used
    > >>when hunting *anything* all the way down to rabbits and squirels.
    > >>Okay, maybe not 00 buck for the squirels. <g>
    >
    > >Not unless your intent was squirrel marmalade...
    >
    > Pre-tenderized, but you have to watch out for the pellets when you eat them. ;-p

    Naw, that was why the fed made us give up lead shot.....  Now you can us
    a UL aproved magnet to remove the steel shot.

    - --
    The theme of the whole thing is clear. We have to be careful with wisdom. We have to
    make certain we're ready for it when it comes knocking on our door. Knowledge isn't
    always a blessing;
        sometimes, it's damnation.
    Play Dirty: Let's All Go to the Movies!, by John Wick

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:33:42 +0200
    From: "Giuseppe" <russellp@iafrica.com>
    Subject: Re: A new look at gravitics

    > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:39:37 +0100
    > From: Ingo Heinscher <Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de>
    > Subject: Re: A new look at Gravitics
    >
    > At 18:06 30.01.00 +0200, you wrote:
    >
    > >The way I use gravitics in my CT universe is as follows:
    > (snip)
    > >and
    > >nullify the momentum squashings that would be experienced by characters
    > >inside the ship by use of the internal gravity plates, which compensate
    for
    > >the field being created outside the ship to provide acceleration.
    >
    > Which indicates that the grav compensation only works for ship-generated
    > impulses, not one createdby hits, rams etc.

    Indeed! Very good point. I play it this way anyway, but I never really
    thought about it before.

    > (snip)
    > >Missiles in my TU are all able to 'skip' in and out of jumpspace by use
    of
    > >tiny jump-like drives, that are completely unsuitable to transport
    anything
    > >living at all (the effects of jump-skipping are deadly to any organism)
    or
    > >anything inorganic for that matter beyond the distance of 1 light second.
    >
    > Uh, I think that's dangerous: One could come to the idea that if you put
    > yourself into cryostasis, you could use a "stutterwarp"* kind of jump
    > drive. Your assumption contradicts with an axiom of the "official"
    > Traveller universe: "Every jump, how long it ever is, takes 170(+/-10%)
    > hours." And this is IMO for good reasons, since by your way, a faster type
    > of travel than jump space would suddenly exist. (Why not use automatic
    > robot Xboats with "stutterwarp"?)

    You did notice I said they come to pieces after 1 light second of distance
    yes? And once you have sent them off there's no way to stop them. It's a
    fire and forget thing. In my TU you CAN hop in and out of jumpspace, but
    only at that one prescribed frequency I mentioned of some 1000 cycles per
    second and only for a maximum travel distance of 1 light second. Hardly
    worth it for anything other than missiles.

    > >Also, the way that a ship with gravitics would travel between stars is to
    > >wormhole which effectively, according to classical physics anyway, takes
    no
    > >time, so in order to comply with the traveller idea of 1week/jump, we
    have
    > >to say that wormholing is also damaging to living creatures and instead
    > >jump-space is used, meaning that a jump drive is a completely separate
    and
    > >different tech to gravitic technology and that gravitic tech does not
    permit
    > >time-dilation effects (as it would in real life) again, due to some
    > >disturbing but deadly consequences on living things.
    >
    > A little bit too artificial for my personal taste...

    Well, the classic Traveller Jump-space idea is what is artificial. In
    reality, wormholing is how you'd have to travel between star systems, and
    that takes no time at all. Effectively, time spent in the wormhole is nil.
    Check out New Scientist April 1995 issue for the reason why if you want to
    (it's a cool edition as it also tells of the broken light barrier. We have
    already shipped information at 4.7 times lightspeed (albeit only through 12
    cm of space, but still...)

    Another way of thinking about it is that for some weird reason time doesn't
    really stop inside the wormhole, perhaphs this is a deliberate thing done by
    the ship so as not to kill the people in it? Maybe if time freezes when you
    start it up again your heart stays stopped or something. Works for me either
    way.

    > * I am not speaking of any TNE tchnology, don't even know them.

    Who would want to? CT is the only Traveller that REALLY exists :)
    G.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:12:44 +1100
    From: "Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au>
    Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED X Files and RPGers

    I loved how one of the Lone Gunman played AD&D for money like it was poker
    or something.

    I'd just thought I'd mention that...

    Michael

    Date:	Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:05:22 -0600
    From:	Robert James Eaglestone <eaglestone@home.net
    <mailto:eaglestone@home.net> >
    Subject:	Why Do I Like Traveller?

    What can I say?  The published material, in greater and lesser extents,
    carry a part of Mr. Miller's personality and philosophy with them, and
    perhaps that is what I have always felt is agreeable about Traveller.
    Mr. Miller is a known quantity, and so is Mr. Loren.  The more we read their
    stuff, the more we understand their mindset.  I am comfortable with their
    philosophy, which may or may not be the same as that of GDW.  But it does
    seem to be conservative enough to make me happy. They have earned my trust.
    When I look at other game systems, I have to judge them on the rulebook
    alone.  I don't know the writers.  I don't know the professor who created
    Tekumel, or the writers for Shadowrun.  I do see that whoever commissions
    the artwork often has scantily-clad bimbos on the cover.  Since I'm an old
    codger now, I'd feel strange having one of those rulebooks lying around...
    makes me feel like one of Mulder's friends on the X-files: you know, those
    computer hackers extraordinaire?   A little too reclusive for my tastes.
    <dons asbestos battle-dress>
    Rob

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:46:58 +1100
    From: "Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au>
    Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED School NPC - Old Bill the Cripple

    NPC, Sylean Federation Vacuum Mining School

    Old Bill is a permanent fixture at the SFVMS, having been employed by the
    school for last fifty years. Bill is a Belter of the old school, having run
    a centuries old seeker single handed (literally - he's lost his left arm up
    to the elbow, right eye and both legs below the knee) for most of his life
    prior to ending up dirt-side in academia. Many have asked Bill why he hasn't
    had his disfiguring ailments rectified, but he simply winks with his good
    left eye and taps his nose mysteriously with the forefinger of his remaining
    hand. Though clearly the answer is as plain as the anagathic inspired cysts
    on his face*.

    Bill teaches practical theory to anyone who'll listen, or rather will mumble
    advice between bouts of cursing. But unbeknownst to him (and this is
    strictly enforced by the faculty), his 'teachings' have found their way into
    the syllabus under the title of 'Why this is not the way', explaining into
    detail why Bill's shortcuts on maintenance and safety procedures should
    avoided. Famous topics include 'Atmosphere Scrubbers - how to triple their
    life span' (the single male twenties equivalent of turning undies inside out
    to double the wearing time) and 'Drinking in  zero-g is fine by me'.

    Bill's primary job is to be a living example what can happen when people cut
    corners, but he thinks he is there to dispense his learning. He hasn't said
    anything about why he doesn't have class-times or has to mark papers,
    believing that a pay-roll glitch is responsible and he doesn't want the
    gravy train to end. Bill is on anagathics courtesy of a former student who
    made an exceptional strike and in a fit of generosity that only the suddenly
    wealthy can get, bought a life time anagathic bond for the former tutor.
    Bill generally cruises around in a grav-chair which has nimble robotic arms
    with various tools mounted on it.

    Old Bill has accrued an incredible amount of leave and money from his time
    at the school (he never goes anywhere and his  expenses are bugger all
    thanks to living in an advanced base staked out near the motor pool). He has
    been known to fund start-ups by promising students but has yet to make a
    return on an investment.

    Old Bill 		UPP 433665 Age 70 (116)

    Skills; Environment Combat-3, Vacuum Suit-3, Electronics-2, Mechanical-2,
    Pilot-2, Robotics-2, Astronavigation-1, Geology-1, Gravatics-1, Carousing-0,
    Computer-0, Engineering-0, Instruction-0.

    Note: For MT replace Environment Combat with Zero G Environ-2 and Low
    Gravity-1, Astronavigation with Navigation and Robotics with Robot Ops

    *IMTU using anagathics interferes with re-cloning o body parts and the
    fitting of bionics (it's possible to use them, but it causes pain).

    Michael

    Date:	Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:25:46 -0500
    From:	Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca
    <mailto:robert_prior@sympatico.ca> >
    Subject:	Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED School attempt

    >Here's my crack at a school (however it is Milieu 0 system specific but
    >readily adaptable)
    >
    >School Name: Sylean Federation Vacuum Mining School

    Got it.
    Now if everyone could submit a school or two we'd have that supplement
    finished.  :-)
    For those that can't do schools, how about NPCs like famous professors,
    student radicals, and the like? <mailto:michael.hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au>

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:41:34 -0800
    From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net>
    Subject: 'Roos

    I could SWEAR there was a writeup in one of the Traveller Digests,
    Challenge, etc., about a race called the 'Roos, who were genetically
    uplifted from Terran Kangaroo stock.  Can anyone help me out with a scan
    from the article?  Thought I had it, but can't find it.  My collection of
    Traveller magazine literature was never very large to begin with, and over
    the years I've lost some stuff.

    Of course, I may be mixing them up with another game system.  You never know
    :)

    Thanks,
    Jesse

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:29:54 +1300
    From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
    Subject: RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!

    > On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
    > > Not a heck of a lot actually. For NZ the US "took its cheque book
    > > and went home" in the early 80s when we decided that we'd rather
    > > not be a part of the US nuclear umbrella. Thats when the US
    > > decided not to help us against state sponsored terrorism.
    >
    > Well, the way I heard it here, NZ demanded that we not have nuclear
    > armed vessels in your territory. The problem is that (for very good
    > reasons) the US *cannot* let anyone know which nuclear *capable*
    > vessels actually have nukes on board. Doing so makes it *way* too easy
    > for anybody who wants to attack us, because it lets them know which
    > ships can be ignored in a first strike attack.

    Which is a piece of crock, because anyone who's studied nuclear strategy
    knows that only the SSBNs and fleet concentrations are relevant in a first
    strike attack, as everything else only has local tactical significance.

    Of course, it's also pretty damn simple to track which US ships are
    currently nuclear-armed  anyway through a variety of other methods, all of
    which were pointed out at the time

    > So, that meant that NZ had just made your territory off-limits to all
    > US vessels *capable* of carrying nukes (after all, if we'd sent such a
    > vessel into your waters, it'd be the same as saying it *wasn't*
    > carrying nukes,  or we'd have to lie to you).Which made your ports
    > *worthless* to us.

    They were largely worthless anyway, the only point in visiting New Zealand
    ports was flag-waving and maybe a bit of an R&R for the crew.

    > It also meant that (from *our* viewpoint) you'd
    > unilaterally abrogated the ANZAC treaties anyway.

    That's _ANZUS_ the US was not involved in the Australia - New Zealand Army
    Corps at Gallipoli <grin>

    > So asking for help was just a bit out of line.

    Help ?

    > So from *our* point of view, we didn't take our check book and go home,
    > we were told in no uncertain terms that we weren't welcome, and that
    > treaty obligations didn't have to be honored.
    >
    > How does this compare with the spin put on it in NZ?

    Actually the only real spin is in the last paragraph.

    Non-nuclear powered or capable American warships were, and are still,
    welcome in New Zealand ports. In fact, a few have actually visited, even
    given the restrictions, putting the lie to the 'operational neccessity'
    argument above.

    But the big lie is about the ANZUS treaty. There is actually no requirement
    that US ships vist New Zealand waters in order for New Zealand to fulfill
    it's ANZUS treaty obligations.

    We continued to excercise with Australia and other Commonwealth navies with
    no problems, and continued to fulfil our UN and SEATO obligations.

    We were also interested to note that the US did not take similar actions
    against other 'allies' who also refuse to allow nuclear armed ships into
    their harbours, such as Sweden and Japan (although Japan might not
    technically be an ally) or even a number of US ports that have similar
    rules.

    BTW, I don't support the nuclear ship or weapon ban myself, it was an
    excercise in futility  brought about by hysterical peaceniks whose arguments
    in support of it showed they didn't understand either nuclear strategy or
    how nuclear reactors work, but the US reaction was hypocritical, and just as
    hysterical.

    Frankie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:24:09 +1300
    From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
    Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!

    On 30 Jan 00, at 16:13, Leonard Erickson wrote:

    > Well, the way I heard it here, NZ demanded that we not have nuclear
    > armed vessels in your territory. The problem is that (for very good
    > reasons) the US *cannot* let anyone know which nuclear *capable*
    > vessels actually have nukes on board. Doing so makes it *way* too easy for
    > anybody who wants to attack us, because it lets them know which ships can
    > be ignored in a first strike attack.
    >
    > So, that meant that NZ had just made your territory off-limits to all US
    > vessels *capable* of carrying nukes (after all, if we'd sent such a vessel
    > into your waters, it'd be the same as saying it *wasn't* carrying nukes,
    > or we'd have to lie to you). Which made your ports *worthless* to us. It
    > also meant that (from *our* viewpoint) you'd unilaterally abrogated the
    > ANZAC treaties anyway. So asking for help was just a bit out of line.

    However for courtesy calls the US could have used non-nuclear
    capable vessels, and besides these visits aren't part of the treaty.

    > So from *our* point of view, we didn't take our check book and go home, we
    > were told in no uncertain terms that we weren't welcome, and that treaty
    > obligations didn't have to be honored.

    There are very few obligations in the ANZUS treaty, and coming to
    one another's help isn't one of them, anyway. If it was the US had
    already broken the treaty, as the Auzzies had asked for help in
    dealing with the Indonesians (over East Timor? or was it West Irian? I
    can't remember) and didn't get any. Something to do with Vietman
    being more important/just over IIRC.

    > How does this compare with the spin put on it in NZ?

    See above.

    At the time there was a perception in NZ that the US had no real
    interest in actually talking about things, and hearing our POV. The
    feeling was that the US was just throwing its weight around, and
    couldn't stand the thought of "losing" to a small country like NZ. That
    Reagan was seen as a raving militarist likely to start WWIII by many
    didn't help, either.

    - --
    Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
    Wellington, New Zealand

    A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:38:54 +1300
    From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
    Subject: RE: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!

    > On Behalf Of Glenn Goffin
    > >The US customs "confiscated" (i.e: stole) this radio equipment
    > >off the boat because it was bound for Cuba. Though they had
    > >absolutely no legal right to do so under either US or
    > >international law, our legal advice was that the cost of the
    > >equipmnet (some tens of thousands of dollars ) was less than
    > the
    > >amount of lawyers fees we'd have to pay to try and get the
    > >stuff back.
    >
    > 1) Lawyers' fees?  Come on, send in the special forces to take
    > that stuff back.  That might even be cheaper than legal fees.

    Tempting, but while killing people over a few tonnes of radio equipment may
    be acceptable in an RPG, people get a bit upset over that sort of thing in
    real life.

    <sarcasm>
    Not to mention that our govenrment avoids interfering in commercial disputes
    in the interests of free trade.

    > 2) Maybe New Zealand would just seize a like amount of cargo off
    > a U.S. ship in port and let the U.S. spend lawyers' fees or send
    > in the SEALS or just let it all end up in the world court.

    That would require the US to actually export something wouldn't it ?
    </sarcasm>

    Frankie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:37:13 +1300
    From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
    Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?

    On 30 Jan 00, at 17:35, Jason T. Barnabas wrote:

    > From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
    > > I'd say it's more likely to be because it's too much like hard work :)
    > > I've seen some quite imaginative things done by pigs with their noses
    > > (mainly to assist in escape attempts), but in general they'd much rather
    > > recline in a nice muddy wallow than do anything involving effort.
    >
    > While it is true that domestic swine are notoriously lazy, they
    > would rather rest in clean water than mud.  In the wild, they
    > will go out of their way to kill any creature that might compete
    > with them for the available resources (including humans).

    The ones my parents had when I was a kid used to spend hours
    stirring up the bottom of a stream bed to get things nice and muddy.
    I suspect that they used the coating of mud to keep off biting insects
    and the sun. While pigs are quite clean animals in that they keep
    their bedding clean, they certainly like mud.

    > An adversary that outweighs you by two or three times can
    > be very dangerous.  Add to that the trotters ("hooves") and
    > tushes (long, razor sharp teeth) and natural armor and you
    > find you have a formidable foe.

    New Zealand's only dangerous game - the wild pig.

    - --
    Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
    Wellington, New Zealand

    A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:52:46 +0000
    From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Fw: Rules Question

    "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au> wrote:

    >    'Nother question, if you are attacked by a Pirate, is it possible to
    >legally end up in control of the ship if you win? Can a merchant that beats
    >the Pirate retain ownership of the attacking vessel in other words.

    Depend if the pirates have legal title to their vessel.

    If they don't, I'd guess you'd get the equivalent of salvage fees from the
    owner (probably a bank or insurance company)

    If they do, I'd expect the Imperium to award a "Prize" instead of the ship.
    Depending on how it was equipped, I doubt they'd want a vessel suitable
    for piracy in circulation. Then again, if a merchant captured it, you might
    have a case against the "suitable for piracy" clause. :-)

    >    What would the legal position of both parties be?

    Given Imperial attitudes, I'd say the pirate was looking down the wrong end
    of a Factor T meson and the merchant is doing the primetime chatshows.

    >    What if the pirates claimed to be Bounty Hunters who 'made a mistake'?

    What if the pirate claims to be a Bounty Hunter who was defeated by a pirate?

    "Calling all lawers!"

    I hope you have kept very good records of both the conflict and your recent
    trading activities - no weeks missing from the logs when you passed by that
    red zone planet!

    Phil Kitching
    - --
      http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
      Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
     "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

    ------------------------------

    End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1840
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Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1841
Date: 1/31/00 8:43:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Monday, January 31 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1841
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: Rules Question
Re: Solomani loons strike back!!! :>
re: Pigs and Guns (kinda OT)
Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: Bolo design (was re: Request)
Re: Bolo design (was re: Request)
Re: Serial Killers
re: Traveller News Group, a very bad idea
Re: 'Roos
Re:Aging rolls in char gen
RE: Rules Question
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Foodrunner adventure free trader
Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
re: Salami Loons Strike Back!!
Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Re: Traveller Topic Posts
A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Re: How small can a sophont be?
RE: 'Roos
Re: Request
Re: Rules Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:57:37 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Date sent: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:24:09 +1300
> On 30 Jan 00, at 16:13, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > So from *our* point of view, we didn't take our check book and go home, we
> > were told in no uncertain terms that we weren't welcome, and that treaty
> > obligations didn't have to be honored.
> There are very few obligations in the ANZUS treaty, and coming to
> one another's help isn't one of them, anyway. If it was the US had
> already broken the treaty, as the Auzzies had asked for help in
> dealing with the Indonesians (over East Timor? or was it West Irian? I
> can't remember) and didn't get any. Something to do with Vietman
> being more important/just over IIRC.
The so called "Nixon Doctrine". In 1973 or 74 the Australians were
planning on giving Papua New Guinea independence and there was
a real fear that the Indonesians would invade. They asked the US if
they could expect assistance in the event of an Indonesian attack.
The US response was that no assistance would be given if the
attack came from a nation friendly to the US (eg we were safe if the
godless commies (China) managed to hack their way down to us,
but otherwise we were on our own).
Andrew etc
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/
"What do you expect from a species whose females are
always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:10:25 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Rules Question
At 14:48 31/01/2000 +1100, you wrote:
> If a ship is grappled with another and there is enough engineers to run
>both drive rooms but only enough pilots for one ship, can they jump
>together? (MegaTraveller answers please)
if the "grapple" means that the grappling ship is designed to transport
ships of the appropriate size (possibly using a jump suitable cargo net)
then yes, otherwise no.
Specifically, only one of the jumpdrives on the two ships can be used.
You could have your pilot plot the jump in one ship, then transfer to the
other and plot its jump and have them jump separately, but this depends
on what you assume to be the role of the pilot during jump, jump entry
and jump exit. In some TU the pilot has things to do and this wouldn't
be possible.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:36:19 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Solomani loons strike back!!! :>
Steven Hudson wrote:
>>From: "Thom Harris"
>...
>>Like I said before, I don't agree with a lot of the rules the U.S. has but
>>it is still one of the PREMIERE places in the world to live, bar none!!!!!
>
> There's a sentence that wants editing for clarity :)
So where would Steven put the "NOT" ?
:-)
Actually, I would argue that Thom's statement is perfectly clear:
"one of the PREMIERE places" implies equal first place,
"bar none" means that Thom does mean equal first and is not ignoring one or
more countries commonly agreed to be "a group above the rest".
...
I could use an example from the English (and Welsh) Football leagues to
describe
a team in the first division as being:
"one of the premiere teams in the country, bar those in the premiere league."
But all it would prove is that the British* education system isn't very good
at languages.
:-)
* I say British because the Scots had been making this mistake for years
before
the English and Welsh copied it. Perhaps it is unfair and the Irish actually
name the divisions correctly.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:24:47 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Pigs and Guns (kinda OT)
William F. Hostman wrote:
>Ob Trav: I've yet to see any trav games result in "realistic" "one-shot"
>percentages... Especially if you separate NPC's and PC's into separate
>categories... MT seems to be the closest. TNE vs PC's the absolute worst.
>T4 at least got really good one-shot stops... but based upon my read of the
>damage system, you CAN'T one-shot kill except by infection.
OT: Reminds me of a Hero system _Champions_ game we played once
upon a time. We'd been doing the 4-color hero bit for a couple of years,
and I'd started a new story arc with more "realistic" characters and
combat rules. George Takei (yes, *that* George Takei, he was an
associated NPC of one of the PC's, it's a long story) shot a Ninja in
the chest with a moderate-to-large caliber handgun. He rolled well,
and I dutifully applied the location modifiers and such. I described the
Ninja keeling over, and was brought up by the stunned silence that
descended around the table.
It had struck everyone but myself that this was the absolute *first* time
these players had ever seen someone killed by one shot from a handgun
in any of the _Champions_ games I'd run for them.
That system can be lots of fun, but the original format caters much more
to the genre (as, IMO, it should) rather than reality. :-)
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:44:03 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Does this mean that since my High Guard says "1980", that its got all the
fixed rules? I dimly remember something about the starship gen system
having errors.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Swordy (Colin Michael)"
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
> You have two copies of the 1979 version of High Guard? You're sitting on
a
> gold mine!
>
> Seriously, though. Relatively few copies of the first edition were
> published. Since all of the changes to the ship system were published in
> JTAS previously, and since more than half of the book was exactly the same
> as the first edition, GDW did not make any notation, except on the inside
of
> the cover, telling about the altered rules.
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:45:13 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Bolo design (was re: Request)
I would LOVE to get my hands on a Bolo design. Anyone willing to take this
on? If I can only have one, I want the Mark 33.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Goffin"
To: "traveller mailing aa list"
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 11:05 PM
Subject: Bolo design (was re: Request)
> >From: "Jory Earl"
> >Subject: Re: Request
>
> >Great idea, but would they really be cost-effective? Wouldn't
> >the Third Imperium get better results using other means? After
>
> >all, a Mark 31 Bolo is essentially a dreadnought on tracks.
>
> Has anyone completed a Bolo design using any of the design
> systems (Striker; Megatraveller; Fire, Fusion & Steel)? I tried
> a few when I was younger and had more free time, but they were
> always too much work for me (and I'm not really a gearhead,
> anyway).
>
> --Glenn
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:47:19 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Bolo design (was re: Request)
I had worked out the Bolo design years ago but unfortunately have lost
the info. It was part of an idea for characters my wife and I came up
with. I played the Bolo WLF(Wolfie) whose hobbies were human pyschology
and baroque music. My wife character was Marquessa Juliet de Sade, an
army captain pyscho'd out of the service for unnatural feelings for WLF,
her command Bolo. However due to her mental state without Wolfie and
her family's connections, WLF was mustered out (battle reflexes intact)
to keep her sane. However, she was quietly shipped out to the Marches
by her family. A series of companion bots allowed WLF to function off
starport when not operating in a merc capacity. Juliet's mania extended
to installing pleasure circuits so Wolfie could share in her pleasure.
It had its amusing as well as weird moments.
MOre recently with TNE out, I've toyed with the idea of using virus to
create Bolo AI technology.
darkhstarr
Glenn Goffin wrote:
>
> >From: "Jory Earl"
> >Subject: Re: Request
>
> >Great idea, but would they really be cost-effective? Wouldn't
> >the Third Imperium get better results using other means? After
>
> >all, a Mark 31 Bolo is essentially a dreadnought on tracks.
>
> Has anyone completed a Bolo design using any of the design
> systems (Striker; Megatraveller; Fire, Fusion & Steel)? I tried
> a few when I was younger and had more free time, but they were
> always too much work for me (and I'm not really a gearhead,
> anyway).
>
> --Glenn
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:37:20 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
There was an early Traveller game I was in where one of the subplots was
unknown (to the characters and players) one of our group of traders was
a serial killer. It was pretty nasty.
darkhstarr
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > From: Leonard Erickson
> >
> >
> >>I'm reminded of a short story (I forget the author) involving a species
> > that *looks* human, but is far stronger, etc than humans, as well as much
> > longer lived. They *prey* on humans. They need certain tissues from the
> > human body to stay alive.
> >>
>
> > Gee, there are lots of stories about those critters, they're called "vampires".
>
> Nope. I said *tissues* not blood. They don't need very much, it's just
> that until you get to *really* high TLs you can't *get* at some of them
> without killing the human (things like a piece of the pituitary(?)
> (some gland buried inside the skull, under the brain)
>
> >>The *real* fun is when the one in the story selects a victim that turns out
> > to be something that preys on *his* species.
> >>
> > I think I may have read this.
>
> The title may have been something like "Fleas".
>
> >>One or both of these species would be an interesting add-on to Traveller.
> > If anyone is *really* interested, I'll see if I can track down the story.
> > It's in *something* I read in the last few months, even if it's an *old*
> > story.
> >>
> > I'd like to know if it's the same one. I can't remember what it was...
>
> Was the "predator predator" a female? Were her nipples some sort of
> "sting"? And when the dying "predator" realized she was telepathic, did
> he think at here "I wonder what preys on *you*?"
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:29:24 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Traveller News Group, a very bad idea
Mark Urbin wrote:
>The Deckplan Webring (17 sites)
>http://users.hartwick.edu/~smithw/deckring.htm
18 now - welcome aboard, William!
Walt Smith
Deckplans Webring Ringmaster
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:40:45 -0600
From: meow@advancenet.net
Subject: Re: 'Roos
I dont remember an article about Roo's, but I do remember the
Mutants Down Under book for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which
had the Kangaroo in a slouch hat, with a tommy gun, and the joey
wearing a matching hat and a MAC-10 or UZI... there was also a
punk rocker platypus.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:38:54 EST
From: "Roger Barr"
Subject: Re:Aging rolls in char gen
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:03:07 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Ageing.
I know there's a lot of ageing house rules out there. (Mine is it is
defered one term for each TL after 9)
But the effects of aging are prety harsh. Using CT I just generated a PC
who had the misfortune to have a Strength of 4, at age 34 he had a roughly
50% chance of losing 25% of his strength. A similiar PC with a strength of A
would only lose 10%, and he's already got a good stat!
Why don't PC's lose 10% at aging and it adds up, it would be an easy
thing to keep track of and whenever you went under a whole number you lose
another point.
Thoughts anyone?
Jim
Jim,
I used to use a simple one from when I was using the MT rules heavily.
The homeworld classification has three levels of stellar:
Early Stellar
Average Stellar
High Stellar
For ease and simplicity in character generation,
I'd just give the character 1 additional term of service
without the aging rolls per level of stellar.
Early = 1
Average = 2
High = 3
This means that the average citizen in the center of the imperium
(Normally TL 14-15) would start his aging saves at age 46?.
(I don't have the rules in front of me.)
This might be too simple for many folks, but it worked for me for years
without any complaint...
Roger Barr
travelerGM@aol.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:45:38 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: Rules Question
Jim wrote:
> If a ship is grappled with another and there is enough engineers
> to run both drive rooms but only enough pilots for one ship, can
> they jump together? (MegaTraveller answers please)
This was covered in one of the adventures in Digest magazine. I
don't have it to hand so I can't tell you which one (except the
issue was one of the later 8.5x11" size). It included MT tasks
for attaching a structural brace and linking power plants. I'll
try and get the details tonight and post them tomorrow (if no one
beats me to it).
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:53:00 -0500
From: Ethan Henry
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Water? No, but finally getting to the weekend seems to have cleared out
all that pent-up rage I nearly let loose on the TML.
And please don't hose we down without warning.
Ethan
> >> At the risk of starting a big flame war here, I find your attitude
> >> really offensive.
>
> Uh Oh.
>
> > As a Canadian, I find your comments to be borderline offensive
>
> Uh huh, it's smoking! Hey, Why bother being offended? Relax, they're just
> opinions. Somebody got some water?
>
> ;)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:55:10 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Foodrunner adventure free trader
In one of the JTAS is an adventure called Foodrunner, which takes place
on Roup/Regina. Part of that adventure involves the group taking
possession of a 200 free trader which has been substantially modified.
The free trader is TL11, jump-2, maneuver-2, and has two single pulse
laser turrets. It has a larger power plant, larger fuel capacity, but
smaller cargo than the standard TL11 free trader.
I'm playing MT rules, so I sat down to design this thing. I first
designed the TL11 free trader (since I didn't have a set of MT specs for
that one). I then "enhanced" that design to come up with the free trader
used in the adventure.
Why do I mention this all, you ask? Because I now have a design
spreadsheet, evaluation form, and blueprints for the renovated free
trader. Would anyone like to put these on a web site someplace where
others can use them? Or would anyone like a copy?
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:02:56 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Well, I tried out the MegaTraveller advanced character
generation system last night, and I think it is
wonderful! A character runs through his career 1 year
at a time, accumulating experience based on missions
run and medals won.
My only nitpick is that it's too easy to get promoted.
The character I created went through the Naval academy,
and instantly became an officer. From there he quickly
rose through the ranks to end up, at the end of his 5th
term, at age 38, Grand Admiral!
Of course, he was a bit exceptional. His social
standing started out at C, and rose to F (Duke!).
So perhaps I can forgive that... but in general,
does it seem too easy to gain a way-too-important
rank in this system?
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:51:09 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Salami Loons Strike Back!!
Phil Kitching wrote:
>Actually, I would argue that Thom's statement is perfectly clear:
>
>"one of the PREMIERE places" implies equal first place,
>
>"bar none" means that Thom does mean equal first and is not ignoring one or
>more countries commonly agreed to be "a group above the rest".
I seem to remember a US Congressman going on about the wonders
of his home district...he bragged something like:
"We have the seventh-longest all-metal land-to-island road bridge in the country,
BAR NONE!"
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:11:48 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Where do we try this out at?
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
To:
Cc: "Val Dauterive" ; "Frederick Vogel"
;
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 11:02 AM
Subject: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
> Well, I tried out the MegaTraveller advanced character
> generation system last night, and I think it is
> wonderful! A character runs through his career 1 year
> at a time, accumulating experience based on missions
> run and medals won.
>
> My only nitpick is that it's too easy to get promoted.
> The character I created went through the Naval academy,
> and instantly became an officer. From there he quickly
> rose through the ranks to end up, at the end of his 5th
> term, at age 38, Grand Admiral!
>
> Of course, he was a bit exceptional. His social
> standing started out at C, and rose to F (Duke!).
> So perhaps I can forgive that... but in general,
> does it seem too easy to gain a way-too-important
> rank in this system?
>
> Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:05:03 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Robert Eaglestone wrote:
>
> My only nitpick is that it's too easy to get promoted.
> The character I created went through the Naval academy,
> and instantly became an officer. From there he quickly
> rose through the ranks to end up, at the end of his 5th
> term, at age 38, Grand Admiral!
Don't forget that officers in the military can only be promoted once per
four-year term, except for special circumstances like naval attache.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:12:23 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
SD Mooney writes:
>I have always favoured Traveller, Runequest, Call of Cthulhu
>and Cyberpunk2020. It's the background that does it for me.
I certainly like the background for Traveller, but that
isn't really what hooked me. In fact, my first Traveller
campaign occured in my own, entirely heretical, universe
(and my Runequest campaign is in a very loose rendering
of Assyria).
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:45:47 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Hi. Several people asked about the excel spreadsheet i made re stars within
50 light years of Earth.
The spreadsheet is now available in a zip file from
http://www.crosswinds.net/~ehenry/dskies.htm
Here's a recap of the file and the data therein. The download is a zip file
which you must unzip. It contains a Microsoft Excel 97 spreadsheet. BTW, I
use Dr. Solomon antivirus version 8.01.
The data is based on the CHview star data including Hipparcos updates. The
each record consists of a star's XYZ coordinates in light years on the
galactic plane with Earth at 0,0,0. These coordinates were transposed from
the given CHview coordinates as they were not on the galactic plane.
Coordinates are listed to one decimal place.
Also included are the star's name, spectral class, and notes which may
include additional catalog names or other data. Binaries will have lots of
other data.
Please contact me if you have any questions.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:24:49 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: How small can a sophont be?
Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella writes:
>Not exactly, but I know some birds actually weave their nests, and
>that seems to me to be pretty complicated. But then we are talking
>about single refined abilities.
Again, one must define intelligence. Many birds, and even
many insects, exibit sophisticated and complex behaviour.
Usually, this behaviour is instinctive and relatively
inflexible, but the case of the birds starting to open milk
bottles in the UK appears to have been learned behaviour.
Even learning can be limited: an experiment showed that
while rats can easily learn to associate specific odors with
tainted water, they found it impossible to associate coloured
lights with tainted water. Even a learned behaviour can
become inflexible (a few humans, including myself, come to
mind).
So, sophoncy (= intelligence?) occurs in shades of grey. I
would suggest that it is characterized by the ability to
learn, and to ascribe cause-effect relationships to observed
phenomena.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:15:44 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: 'Roos
I remember that as well, but I don't think I mixed 'Roos up with them. I
specifically remember mention that they couldn't speak English and needed
translator hardware. English may have been Standard, Galanglic, etc.
Jesse
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
meow@advancenet.net
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 4:41 AM
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: 'Roos
I dont remember an article about Roo's, but I do remember the
Mutants Down Under book for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which
had the Kangaroo in a slouch hat, with a tommy gun, and the joey
wearing a matching hat and a MAC-10 or UZI... there was also a
punk rocker platypus.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:29:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Miracle
Subject: Re: Request
> I wasn't aware there was a "lag". I get messages every 30 minutes (or
> sooner if I manually check).
Its not a software lag, its a human lag. Not every reads their mail every half hour.
I fetch my work mail ever 5 minutes, but my play mail may get checked once per day.
I know people who check their mail once per week.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:45:40 +0000
From: Ewan Quibell
Subject: Re: Rules Question
Phil Kitching wrote:
>
> At 14:48 31/01/2000 +1100, you wrote:
> > If a ship is grappled with another and there is enough engineers to run
> >both drive rooms but only enough pilots for one ship, can they jump
> >together? (MegaTraveller answers please)
>
> if the "grapple" means that the grappling ship is designed to transport
> ships of the appropriate size (possibly using a jump suitable cargo net)
> then yes, otherwise no.
>
> Specifically, only one of the jumpdrives on the two ships can be used.
>
> You could have your pilot plot the jump in one ship, then transfer to the
> other and plot its jump and have them jump separately, but this depends
> on what you assume to be the role of the pilot during jump, jump entry
> and jump exit. In some TU the pilot has things to do and this wouldn't
> be possible.
>
> Phil Kitching
Something similar was done in one of the Travellers Digests ... 14 I
think ... in the Psonic Knights adventure, although I don't remember the
exact details. If someone has it handy the MT tasks are in there,
otherwise I'll look it up tonight.
Ewan
- --
Ewan Quibell Their's not to make reply,
Senior Communications Engineer Their's not to reason why,
Computer Centre Their's but to do and die:
University of Brighton Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk Alfred, Lord Tennyson
#include
My spelling is + due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license
University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1841
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Traveller-digest Monday, January 31 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1842
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: THUDDD
Re: Solomani loons strike back!!! :>
solo traveller
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: H20 as Fuel
Re: 'Roos
Confluence 2000 anyone?
Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: Normal space travel
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1841
Frigate crew questions
Linking Ships
RE: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
re: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
re: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:41:16 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville
Subject: Re: THUDDD
Bruce Macintosh wrote:
> Me too - I am disappointed that people didn't like the Darwin more; I was
> very proud of the cost-effectiveness and versatility of the design.
> And I'm curious if anyone worked out the hidden agenda.
It's a fascinating design. Besides the fact that _Maturin_ would make
a nice spy ship, _Darwin_ could be pressed into service as an 8-boat
fighter carrier without any trouble. Sort of an "Imperial _Shivva_".
I'm not sure exactly what agenda you've got in mind, though.
-- Steve Bonneville
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:17:00 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: Solomani loons strike back!!! :>
My *English* may not be the greatest but my point got across. BTW, Oz and NZ
are two of the places I would consider living in outside the U.S. I just
can't seem to get my wife interested.... I love Oz for it's openness and NZ
for it's raw beauty.
While in the army I *visited* more than 40 countries. I've seen most of
Europe (stationed in Germany 7 years); some of the Mid East (stationed in
Turkey for a year, TDY to Lebanon, Israel, Egypt and Ethiopia); parts of the
Caribbean (TDY to Puerto Rico and Guantanamo Bay,Cuba); several African and
South American countries and a number of countries in the Far East
(stationed in Korea and Viet Nam, TDY to Thailand and a couple of other
places I can't mention).
The world is a beautiful place and I wish I could see more!!!!! I would
never slam ANYBODY's country, they ALL have their good and bad points, I
just happen to live in the USA. I sometimes get tired of the "self righteous
indignation" that others throw at us Americans. Not that we don't deserve it
from time to time. It seems that we all can be pretty arrogant if we're not
careful. I tried to lighten my original post with the "I don't feel this
way" (R) beginning but it was apparently ignored.
Sorry for the rambling, I'm sick and overly medicated.......
Thom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Kitching"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: Solomani loons strike back!!! :>
> Steven Hudson wrote:
> >>From: "Thom Harris"
> >...
> >>Like I said before, I don't agree with a lot of the rules the U.S. has
but
> >>it is still one of the PREMIERE places in the world to live, bar
none!!!!!
> >
> > There's a sentence that wants editing for clarity :)
>
> So where would Steven put the "NOT" ?
>
> :-)
>
> Actually, I would argue that Thom's statement is perfectly clear:
>
> "one of the PREMIERE places" implies equal first place,
>
> "bar none" means that Thom does mean equal first and is not ignoring one
or
> more countries commonly agreed to be "a group above the rest".
>
> Phil Kitching
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:33:23 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: solo traveller
LKW write:
> >You know this is an aspect that Marc and the rest of GDW seemed to
> >forget about. Many a time I'd pull out my books and roll up
> >characters and send them through careers creating stories for them.
>Several of Marc's writings suggest this sort of thing as one of the ways to
>play Traveller solitaire.
Here are some examples of just such an exercise:
http://www.ma.ultranet.com/~eclipse/SV/TRAV/bunny.shtml
http://www.ma.ultranet.com/~eclipse/SV/TRAV/orderly.shtml
http://www.ma.ultranet.com/~eclipse/SV/TRAV/Lothar.shtml
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/polyticks/algore-noway.shtml/
"In 1991, [Vice President] Gore cited Bush's China policy as a reason he
should be defeated for reelection, charging Bush sent his emissaries to
toast the butchers of Tiananmen Square.'"
Deborah Orin in the New York Post, March 26, 1997, the day after Gore
drank champagne with Chinese Premier Li Peng, who helped plan the
Tiananmen massacre
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:40:05 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
Hi Jim,
You mentioned aging rolls in Traveller character generation.
I like your idea of deferring the aging penalty for higher
Tech Levels. However, T4 introduced a system I think is
cool: each term, roll 2D for each of the four stats. If
the roll is LESS than the ten's digit of the character's age,
he loses a point in that attribute.
In this way, you don't need to consult an aging table;
the rules have been abstracted slightly but the game
is stremlined significantly.
Delaying the aging roll a term per TL would still work
in this case... perhaps subtract the PCs TL from his age
and roll from there. Here are some examples of how this
would turn out:
TL Actual Age Physical Age Target #
0 30 30 <3
0 40 40 <4
0 50 50 <5
0 60 60 <6
5 30 25 no age roll
5 40 35 <3
5 50 40 <4
5 60 55 <5
7 40 33 <3
7 50 43 <4
7 60 53 <5
11 40 29 no age roll
11 50 39 <3
11 60 49 <4
11 70 59 <5
15 44 29 no age roll
15 54 39 <3
15 64 49 <4
15 74 59 <5
How's that sound?
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:38:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: H20 as Fuel
William F. Hostman writes:
> Anthony Jackson quoth me thusly, and then adds
> >William F. Hostman writes:
> >> So, if you want a 100Td, J2 you need purification capable of 15% (under
> >> MT, remember? MT has lower JFuel costs) of hull or 15Td in 20 minutes.
> >> That's 120Td per 6 hours, or 162kl (13.5 kl to the MT Td) per 6 hours.
> >Um...15 tD/20 minutes = 270 Td per 6 hours. 270 Td/6 hours = 3645 kl/6
> >hours. > using the tl 15 fpp:
> >> Power Vol Wt
> >> 0.005 0.2 0.4 Cr150
> >> x162 x162 x162 x162
> >> ===============================================================
> >> 0.81MW 32.4kl 64.8 Cr24300
>
> > 18.225MW 729kl (54TD) 1458T Cr546,750
> >
> >The power plant slice for that is fairly negligible, but adding 54 tD of
> >equipment to replace 7.5 tD of fuel tankage is not exactly efficient.
> >
> Where the [delete expletive] are you getting THOSE figures?
Exotic procedure known as 'basic arithmetic'
15 (fuel use) * 18 (to purify in 20 minutes) = 270 tD (per 6 hours)
270 * 13.5 = 3645 (kl/6 hr)
3645 * 0.2 = 729 (kl of fuel purifier)
729/13.5 = 54 tD
15
>
> Under MT, fuel purification is pretty effective. Your additional line of
> data makes no sense... I'd already caried out the math needed.
You carried out the math, you just did it -horribly- incorrectly.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:48:23 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Re: 'Roos
There was a posting for Uplifted Roos as a character race done for T4 rules.
I have a copy of it squirreled away somewhere...
Does anyone know if it's online anywhere?
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a
free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed. -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:52:29 -0500
From: Glenn Myers
Subject: Confluence 2000 anyone?
Hi all,
Just thought I would check and see if anyone on the TML was planning on
attending the Confluence Science Fiction Conference in Mars, PA on Feb
25-27.
Because I live so close, I'm considering picking up a day pass.
GOH is James Morrow and other guests include Hal Clement, William Keith,
Alexis Gilliland and a bunch of other authors I don't know.
Email me if interested.
Glenn
Glenn E. Myers
Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
When faced with a choice between evils, why choose the lesser?
Cthulu for President!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:52:49 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
"Robert Eaglestone" puts out on the ether:
>Well, I tried out the MegaTraveller advanced character
>generation system last night, and I think it is
>wonderful! A character runs through his career 1 year
>at a time, accumulating experience based on missions
>run and medals won.
>My only nitpick is that it's too easy to get promoted.
>The character I created went through the Naval academy,
>and instantly became an officer.
One should hope so. :-) The question is "Did he also instantly become a
"Gentlebeing" upon graduation?
> From there he quickly
>rose through the ranks to end up, at the end of his 5th
>term, at age 38, Grand Admiral!
>Of course, he was a bit exceptional. His social
>standing started out at C, and rose to F (Duke!).
>So perhaps I can forgive that... but in general,
>does it seem too easy to gain a way-too-important
>rank in this system?
That explains it! He was a "Social Officer", who's promotions were more
influenced by family connections and belonging to the right clubs than
fitreps. MTU is lousy with 'em.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
doc_camus@mad.scientist.com - www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Smith&Wesson -- The Ultimate "Point & Click" User interface.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:54:58 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
At 14:52 30.01.00 -0500, you wrote:
(snip -various ideas on an explanation for 2D))
>In the end, Hoppe's idea is functionally the same as the "Crumpled Table
>Cloth" theory, while my variation might be the "Many Crumpled Table Cloths"
>theory -- in which the multiple, layered table cloths touch each other in
>certain places (giant and supergiant star systems).
Could you elaborate on the advantages of the "multiple crumpled table cloth
theory" over the "single" variant?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:54:24 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Normal space travel
At 07:09 31.01.00 +0000, you wrote:
>Having played Imperium many times, one of the most effective tactics for
>the Terrans is to use monitors travelling sublight to breakout from their
>box. This is especially true on the Barnard front. I have always assumed
>that the crews were regularly exchanged via small jumpship.
In this case you weould have to assume that the defending fleet (reading
the sensor readings of all those jumping auxiliaries) would intercept that
monitor and kill it at any time during travel, just when it fits into
jump-space strategy.
Personally, I tried this strategy to on Imperium, but soon found out that a
large amount of these ressources ist wasted, because the war was over
before half of them arrived. But that probably depends on your opponent.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:54:20 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
At 17:35 30.01.00 -0800, you wrote:
>Here's the way I see it: If you want to start a Traveller related
>Newsgroup, go ahead and start one. Those that like that
>sort of thing will join you there and those who don't won't.
>You don't need my permission, nor anyone else's, provided
>you don't claim any link to this or any other existing list, site,
>ect.
That is all true, but you need 100 votes _for_ a new NG and no more than
1/3rd of _aöll_ against it. So if there seems to be no majority for it in
the fan community, there's no reason t0o even start...
(actually you just have to be just a bit stubborn and need time to waste,
and the latter is currently no attribute of mine...)
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:54:16 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
At 11:00 31.01.00 +1300, you wrote:
>On 30 Jan 00, at 14:52, Glenn Grant wrote:
>
>IIRC Anders Backman (who also seems to have faded) had also
>come up with a similar theory, though he had it that J-space was the
>product of a coreward civilization, and that jump drives disrupted it.
>Granfather found this out and dissappered into his pocket dimension
>after leaving clues for humans, etc so that when the "owners" of J-
>Space turned up (the "Badies From the Core") they'd blame them,
>and not look for him.
This is really _pessimist_ view on things...
:-)
>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:23:05 -0700
From: "Joseph Kimball"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1841
I reject that statement. The 1980 High Guard Starship design sequence is
significantly different than the 1979 design sequence (especially the
weapons section). However, the 1979 edition didn't have _errors_!....At
least from my point of view. The 1979 edition is the one that solidified
the grasp of Traveller on my mind and banished the majority of thoughts
about other rules systems. As far as volume goes, I made more '79 edition
starships than all the other versions of Traveller combined (and I have the
grades from that year to prove it).
- - Joseph
- ----- Original Message -----
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:44:03 -0500
> From: "Jory Earl"
> Subject: Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
>
> Does this mean that since my High Guard says "1980", that its got all the
> fixed rules? I dimly remember something about the starship gen system
> having errors.
> ___________________________________________________________
> J-Man
> ICQ# 2843475
> New Hampshire - U.S.A.
> Email : j-man@iname.com
> Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
> ___________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:30:56 CST6CDT
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: Frigate crew questions
Hey out there, you Navy boys (and girls)...
I know next to nothing about the makeup of a naval crew, so...
I'm trying to design the makeup of a frigate crew. Its a 5000-ton vessel, Jump-
3, 2-G, heavy armor, 2 missile bays, 2 PA bays, 6 triple lasers, 4 triple sand,
with 4 fighters and a pinnace on board. It was designed using GURPS Traveller,
and is at TL10 (GURPS...TL12 Classic). The vessel has 3 physical maneuver
drives, rather than just one huge one...
Here's what I came up with - this listing also shows "rank" and chain of
command...
Officers NCO Enlisted/Ratings
Captain
Executive Officer
Communications
Computer
2 Medics
Pilot
Navigator
Sensor Ops
Pinnace Chief
Pinnace Co-pilot
Pinnace Flight Engineer
Chief Engineer
Chief Power Engineer
10 Power Hands
Chief Jump Engineer
7 Jump Drive Hands
Chief Maneuver 1 Engineer
10 Maneuver Drive Hands
Chief Maneuver 2 Engineer
10 Maneuver Drive Hands
Chief Maneuver 3 Engineer
10 Maneuver Drive Hands
Tactical Officer
6 Laser Gunners
4 Sandcaster Gunners
2 Missile Chiefs
2 Missile Gunners
2 Particle Chiefs
2 Particle Gunners
4 Fighter Pilots
This comes up with:
8 Offciers (4 ship, 4 fighters)
12 NCOs
68 Ratings/Enlisted
Total crew of 88
So my question is - does this look reasonable? The breakdown of
ratings/nco/officers, that is...
And what would you guess are the ranks of the officers?
Thanks,
Andy Akins
________________________________________________________
True Communications Corporation Your Premier ISP.
"Hometown Service with Worldwide Connectivity"
http://www.truserve.com info@truserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:31:39 -0600 (CST)
From: "Anthony Merlock"
Subject: Linking Ships
> At 14:48 31/01/2000 +1100, you wrote:
> > If a ship is grappled with another and there is enough engineers to run
> >both drive rooms but only enough pilots for one ship, can they jump
> >together? (MegaTraveller answers please)
>
> if the "grapple" means that the grappling ship is designed to transport
> ships of the appropriate size (possibly using a jump suitable cargo net)
> then yes, otherwise no.
>
> Specifically, only one of the jumpdrives on the two ships can be used.
>
> You could have your pilot plot the jump in one ship, then transfer to the
> other and plot its jump and have them jump separately, but this depends
> on what you assume to be the role of the pilot during jump, jump entry
> and jump exit. In some TU the pilot has things to do and this wouldn't
> be possible.
To emphasize the point - if you connect two J-1 ships together, you can
not use both J-1 drives to jump the combined ship 1 parsec. You would
have to re-calculate the jump capacity of the larger jump drive, taking
into account the combined volume of both ships.
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:41:36 -0000
From: "Mark Preston"
Subject: RE: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Ok, go on then, I'll take a look.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Ingo
> Heinscher
> Sent: 30 January 2000 10:09
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
>
>
> At 22:24 1/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
> >> This is a recurring thread, which usually gets shot down. Some
> >> reasons many listmembers oppose newsgroups are:
> >
> >Actually, this idea received a LOT of support if you were
> reading the right
> >thread. And some people were paying attention...
>
> Okay, does anyone want my draft for a possible RFD
> (rec.games.frp.traveller) ?
> (RFD=Request for discussion, first step on creating a
> newsgroup in the "big
> eight" hierarchy)
>
>
> --
> For Iridium Throne and glory!
> ingo heinscher ;-)
>
> Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
> ... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:48:09 -0500
From: Rob Miracle
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
There has been quite a bit of talk about switching to newgroups. Let me
share my perspective on this.
First, there are two ways to have a newsgroup, 1) private, 2) public. Lets
talk about a private newsgroup first.
A private newsgroup runs on a private news server and is not propagated to
the world. You have to subscribe to it, run news reader software, or visit
a web page if its a web board style group. As a reader, I don't care for
this arrangement. I'm all ready reading things from four or five different
systems. I don't want to have to ad "yet another way to get
information". Eudora Pro will be free with its next version so you get all
the filtering tools in the world to help separate and kill unwanted
messages. If this route is taken, I would not subscribe and several others
may not as well. Also, there isn't a digest mode for those who prefer it
that way (a majority of the list members). All you really do here is
create a mailing list that is using news reader tools.
On to public lists. There are two ways of creating a Traveller group on
Netnews. One is to create an alt. group where there is complete anarchy
ruleing that group. The second is to follow the RFD method of creating the
group. The group would probably be called: rec.games.frp.traveller. The
discussion would take place in news.groups for a period of 30 days at which
time a vote is taken. There must be 100 more yes votes than no votes. In
the past, the folks in the rec.games.frp domain have been against the
creation of specific groups. That may have changed recently.
Public newsgroups are problematic at best. They are breeding grounds for
spammers. Any post made to a newsgroup will most likely end you up in a
spam list. You have to deal with Spam posts, and there is little anyone
can do to stop it. Not everyone on the planet has access to Netnews unless
they use Deja News. News has grown so big and so full of crud that most
people just don't go there any more. I think moving a nice well behaved
list like Traveller to a newsgroup is a mistake.
I agree that we need a List FAQ. I just don't have time to write it and
post it. Now, it wouldn't bother me at all nor would it bother my network
at all to not have the TML running here. However, we seem to have a
reasonably peaceful and functional mailing list. Problems that do show up
are delt with well by the group. I just wish I had more time to contribute.
I would much rather see this stay a mailing list than become a news group.
Now, I do have to ask the rather pointed question is: Why do you want to
move it there? Am I not doing my job well? Is our network not performing
well? Why do we want to take a great mailing list and ruin it by making it
a newsgroup?
Thanks
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:46:25 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Myself, I have no problems with the mailing list as-is, I agree
with Rob Miracle's view that the problems that do occur tend to
get dealt with in a reasonable fashion.
I'm going to hate the natural result of suggesting this, but:
Do we need to get some TML'ers together and make a
commitment to completing the FAQ and keeping it up to date?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:17:30 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Rob Miracle wrote:
>
> I agree that we need a List FAQ. I just don't have time to write it and
> post it. Now, it wouldn't bother me at all nor would it bother my network
> at all to not have the TML running here. However, we seem to have a
> reasonably peaceful and functional mailing list. Problems that do show up
> are delt with well by the group. I just wish I had more time to contribute.
Stuart Squibb ( scs@vectis.demon.co.uk ) has taken over maintaining the
Traveller Mailing List FAQ, and it is at:
http://www.vectis.demon.co.uk/traveller/faq/tml-faq.html
There's a robo-replier to get it via e-mail.
Here as handy-dandy links:
HTML
mailto:robot@vectis.demon.co.uk?subject=send%20tmlfaq-html
Text
mailto:robot@vectis.demon.co.uk?subject=send%20tmlfaq-text
> I would much rather see this stay a mailing list than become a news group.
Hear Hear!!
> Now, I do have to ask the rather pointed question is: Why do you want to
> move it there? Am I not doing my job well? Is our network not performing
> well?
Rob, you are doing your job flawlessly from my POV. The list propagates
quickly, doesn't mysteriously go down for a day and pop back. The
archives are old (unless they're no longer on ftp.mpgn.com...those go
right up to 8/23/99 and end.) but that's my only quibble.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:11:33 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: re: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
>Myself, I have no problems with the mailing list as-is, I agree
>with Rob Miracle's view that the problems that do occur tend to
>get dealt with in a reasonable fashion.
Having for the first time tried out news software, I'll admit that I'd
really like to have the ability to follow subthreads that a _private_
newsgroup would give me. I wouldn't touch a public one unless you gave me a
new G4 to read it with. :-)
Is there any way to get the best of both worlds? Either email software
that keeps track of subthreads (by replies, not just by subject lines) or a
private newgroup that also allows people to read/post by email?
>I'm going to hate the natural result of suggesting this, but:
>
>Do we need to get some TML'ers together and make a
>commitment to completing the FAQ and keeping it up to date?
>
>Walt Smith
OK, Walt, I'll be the first:
Thanks for volunteering.
You post a rewritten FAQ here, we'll all comment, then you can post the
final version to Rob who can make it official.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1842
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Traveller-digest Monday, January 31 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1843
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Re: THUDDD
[ot] Onelist
Re Cuban Cigars
MT Rules Question
Re: Frigate crew questions
Enviroment question
Re MT Adv CGen
Re: Aging Rolls
RE: TML FAQ
Re: 2300 Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1824
re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: Enviroment question
Re: Enviroment question
Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Re: Linking Ships
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Re: OT Pavis was Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: Serial Killers
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1833
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:28:21 -0500
From: Glenn Myers
Subject: RE: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Rob,
I agree with you entirely regarding newsgroups. No thanks, none for me!
One thing I regularly wish for is the ability to access the TML from a
different email address. ONELIST works rather nicely in this respect. I only
post from one email account but I can view the replies to my post from any
computer with a web browser. It is very good for weekends.
Still, the TML may be kind of high volume for a ONELIST type solution.
BTW, Rob, I think you are doing a great job as ADMIN.
Glenn
Glenn E. Myers
Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
When faced with a choice between evils, why choose the lesser?
Cthulu for President!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:30:12 CST6CDT
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: Re: THUDDD
I too am a little disappointed that there are no comments available - I'd like
to know what people thought of both my Duuagka class Lab Ship and my L-2
Freedom lifepod - I'm rather proud of both (and thanks to everyone that voted
for them).
I've gotta agree with Bruce - I'm surprised the Darwin didn't do better. It was
my favorite ship.
And no, I didn't guess the "hidden agenda".
Andy
Akins
________________________________________________________
True Communications Corporation Your Premier ISP.
"Hometown Service with Worldwide Connectivity"
http://www.truserve.com info@truserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:33:50 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: [ot] Onelist
>onelist seems to use a generic welcome message. MPGN and qrc both seem
>to have customised welcome messages, although neither pointed to the FAQ.
>I don't know what imagiconline does.
the onelist service allows you to set up customized welcom messages. I've
done this for both lists I moderate.
>which is annoying, since that's the TML host.
I agree on the mini-FAQ. the TML needs a decent one.
WRT the NewsGroup, once the RFD goes in, and gets posted, someone ought to
send me a copy... I think it should go through the porcess, and those of us
opposed SHOULD vote Nay!
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:29:51 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Cuban Cigars
>
>>Ob Trav: Anagathics!...:-)
>
> It's the cigars! Everything since the Revolution has been in aid
>of preventing this crucial resource from reaching the US!! :)
>
Who says they don't reach the US? Cuban cirgars have a high rate of being
smuggled. El Presidente Especiales are, for those who care, mind-numbing...
quite literally! (Something about having a high THC content.)
Which brings to mind the aspects of Smuggling: Tax Avoidance, Blockade
Running, Quota avoidance, inspection avoidance, monoply avoidance. We'll
find these reasons for smuggling almost everywhere there is an organized
government; in most areas, more than one may be applicable.
Hypothetical examples from the OTU (_The Traveller Adventure_):
Zilan Skymellon wine: Since the off-planet shipping is both quota'd and
suffering under a monopoly, the only way to get it off planet without
paying the export duties, and buying from the authorized distributors, is
to smuggle it. Some vinters will even sell to smugglers, so as to be able
to sell off-planet.
Psaydian Howwood: Again, monopolistic, and also taxed. So the off planet
price is higher than it "Should" be; by smuggling, the party can sell
cheaper, and still make more profit. In this case, however, they need to
harvest on their own.
Psaydian Anolas: These wonderful critters are under a strict export quota:
0 per year! (Remember, an export prohibition is merely a quota of zero per
unit time.) So, when they latch on to a PC, the party has to smuggle the PC
and the Anolas off world. Funny, tho, that the harvesting of howwood gets
them attached to by anolas. Oh, BTW, they're religious icons of the ruling
theocracy of Psaydi.
At another point in the campaign, the party runs a blockade. Nuff said there.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:10:14 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: MT Rules Question
>Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:48:29 +1100
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
>Subject: Rules Question
>
> If a ship is grappled with another and there is enough engineers to run
>both drive rooms but only enough pilots for one ship, can they jump
>together? (MegaTraveller answers please)
> Jim
>
Yes, accorting to MTJ's Q&A. From memory, not looking it up: Increase
difficulty by 1 step for generating a course for another ship. Also, they
will come out within a smaller timeframe than normal jump variance OF EACH
OTHER; the first one generates the overall duration, then the rest cluster
close to it.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:45:57 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Frigate crew questions
Andy Akins wrote:
>
> Hey out there, you Navy boys (and girls)...
>
> I know next to nothing about the makeup of a naval crew, so...
>
> [snip]
>
> Here's what I came up with - this listing also shows "rank" and chain of
> command...
>
> [snip]
>
> So my question is - does this look reasonable? The breakdown of
> ratings/nco/officers, that is...
>
> And what would you guess are the ranks of the officers?
Go check out "Crew Structure on TNE Starships":
http://www.vectis.demon.co.uk/traveller/faq/Command-Crew.html
It mostly pertains to the command deck crew, but might be useful.
Your breakdown is mostly okay, but:
- - I feel that starship pilots should be officers, especially if your
fighter pilots are. In CT, someone with Pilot skill can fly a small
craft, but not vice versa, from which I always inferred that starship
pilot was a rarer and more prestigious position.
- - I don't see anyone whose job it is to maintain the fighters.
- - I'd expect more than one commissioned officer in both engineering
and gunnery. Maybe I lean too officer-heavy, but I'd bump about
half the NCOs on your list to officer, and bump some ratings up to
fill in the NCO slots.
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:50:05 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Enviroment question
Rangent, a world in the Marches, is described as having a standard
atmosphere with a high Carbon Dioxide content. It's also a water world
that supplies food and other supplies to the systems TL7 asteroid mining
community.
BtC states that the TL was higher, but backslid to 7.
How would this taint effect those living on the surface?
What could be done to counter it long & short term? (Tri-Ox shots anyone?)
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a
free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed. -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:48:57 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re MT Adv CGen
Rob writeth thusly
>My only nitpick is that it's too easy to get promoted.
>The character I created went through the Naval academy,
>and instantly became an officer. From there he quickly
>rose through the ranks to end up, at the end of his 5th
>term, at age 38, Grand Admiral!
>
>Of course, he was a bit exceptional. His social
>standing started out at C, and rose to F (Duke!).
>So perhaps I can forgive that... but in general,
>does it seem too easy to gain a way-too-important
>rank in this system?
You missed a restriction: one officer promotion per term. Exception:
Commissioning does not count as an officer promotion. Military Attache
allows an extra promotion. [MT Player's Manual, p53, left collumn, towards
the bottom.]
Now, it is in theory possible to be an E-9 after 2nd Term.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:10:30 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
Robert Eaglestone writes:
>TL Actual Age Physical Age Target #
0 40 40 <4
>5 40 35 <3
>7 40 33 <3
>11 40 29 no age roll
>How's that sound?
Could you elaborate on the reason(s) that we might be
aging more slowly at higher TL? I suppose that joint
replacements and other procedures would prevent the
loss of abilities due to injuries, but I'm not convinced
that we are otherwise aging any more slowly than we
were at TL 2.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:14:46 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: TML FAQ
Walter Smith writes:
>I'm going to hate the natural result of suggesting this, but:
>Do we need to get some TML'ers together and make a
>commitment to completing the FAQ and keeping it up to date?
I would be willing to help, as time allows. When I
arrived at the TML, I was somewhat disappointed at
the state of the FAQ. A good FAQ can be a great place
to check up on old debates, and it may encourage new
members.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:13:53 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: 2300 Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1824
"Rupert Boleyn" wrote:
>I didn't find the combat system clunky, just very, very deadly. I
>understand that it was toned down a little in the 2300AD rules, but
>I've never seen them.
I can't remember it being significantly different? Shall I dig them
out for a look?
Cheers,
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:19:05 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Eris Reddoch wrote:
>SCTA? Stupid Classic Traveller Anagrams? Society to Cure
>Travelleritis Attacks? South Chatham Transit Authority? Oh, I
>know, Seriously Cool Traveller Affectionidos! That must be it. ;-p
Society of Classic Traveller Architects - ie the High Guard/CT starships list.
>HG's Navy Character Generation and new skills were worthwhile, but
>the ship design and combat systems sucked rocks then and sucks rocks
>now. That's one heretic's opinion, so hah!
Well, I like HG2 lots more than CT Bk 2, BL, TNE basic, T4.
The only thing that gives it a real run for fun is Battle Rider or MayDay.
YMMPV
>I'm basing my opinions of HG from the two copies I own, yes I own
>*two* copies of HG, but just for the character stuff. However,
>being a open minded heretic, I'm willing to listen to different
>opinions and examine contrary evidence, unlike some of you hidebound
>Torquamondas.
>
>So, now here's the 64 kCr question. Is there some wonderful version
>of HG that I've never seen out there that actually *has* good ship
>design rules?
Does your HG have the statement 'This book is a substantially
improved and re-typeset edition ....'
HG1 was published in 1979, HG2 in 1980 and HG1 has the minatures bit
(battlelines etc) and the assumption of fusion drives.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:33:20 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Enviroment question
Mark Urbin wrote:
> Rangent, a world in the Marches, is described as having a standard
> atmosphere with a high Carbon Dioxide content. It's also a water
> world that supplies food and other supplies to the systems TL7
> asteroid mining community.
>
> BtC states that the TL was higher, but backslid to 7.
>
> How would this taint effect those living on the surface?
The high CO2 content would make Earth-type plants really happy.
Greenhouse effect would be a problem. The cause for the CO2 taint is
probably careless burning of fossile fuels (oil, coal). When the planet
ran out of oil, the TL dropped as a result of the partial collapse of
the industry and so on.
> What could be done to counter it long & short term? (Tri-Ox shots
> anyone?)
Dump a lot of blue-green algae on the planet. They would consume CO2 and
give off O2 as a result.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:58:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Enviroment question
Jens Rydholm writes:
> The high CO2 content would make Earth-type plants really happy.
Well, it would make some of them happy.
> Greenhouse effect would be a problem. The cause for the CO2 taint is
Greenhouse effect is only a problem if the planet would be warm without the
greenhouse effect ;). It could be a terraformed iceball which was deliberately
given a substantial CO2 taint to warm it up.
> probably careless burning of fossile fuels (oil, coal). When the planet
> ran out of oil, the TL dropped as a result of the partial collapse of
> the industry and so on.
Well, a population of 7 million will take a while to use up fossil fuels, and
in any case a functioning ecosystem would tend to remove the CO2 moderately
quickly if there wasn't a source for new CO2 (a non-functioning ecosystem
would probably consume the oxygen instead). There is probably an ongoing
source for CO2.
>
> > What could be done to counter it long & short term? (Tri-Ox shots
> > anyone?)
>
> Dump a lot of blue-green algae on the planet. They would consume CO2 and
> give off O2 as a result.
From the description of the world, there's major plankton farms, which means
it has no shortage of algae. The solution would be to remove or moderate
the CO2 source, though if you overdid it the world might freeze.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:56:20 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
In <008d01bf6b8d$d3076060$b2cce4cf@clinic.net>, on 01/30/00
at 08:51 PM, "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" said:
I asked...
>>So, now here's the 64 kCr question. Is there some wonderful version
>>of HG that I've never seen out there that actually *has* good ship
>>design rules?
Dom replied...
>Does your HG have the statement 'This book is a substantially improved
>and re-typeset edition ....'
Nope, both have a publication date of 1979.
>HG1 was published in 1979, HG2 in 1980 and HG1 has the minatures bit
>(battlelines etc) and the assumption of fusion drives.
Yep, that's what I've got.
Swordy then said...
>You have two copies of the 1979 version of High Guard? You're sitting on
>a gold mine!
Nah, just two copies of a bad rule set, and no, I won't sell one of them.
;-p
It appears *all* my Traveller stuff is first edition and low print runs. I
was buying it as fast as it arrived at my FLGS back in 1977-1981.
>Seriously, though. Relatively few copies of the first edition were
>published. Since all of the changes to the ship system were published in
>JTAS previously, and since more than half of the book was exactly the
>same as the first edition, GDW did not make any notation, except on the
>inside of the cover, telling about the altered rules.
They still should have mentioned it on the cover somewhere. How was I
supposed to know to pick up a book I already had two of and look on the
inside for changes? Do you recall what issues of JTAS had the
changes?
Hum, well, I suppose I'll see the 2nd edition rules anyway when I recieve
my "Classic Reprints" from Marc. That'll be real soon now, right? ;->
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:33:32 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
In <4.3.0.33.0.20000131133338.00bf5690@mail2.server.imagiconline.com>, on
01/31/00
at 01:48 PM, Rob Miracle said:
>I would much rather see this stay a mailing list than become a news
>group.
Me too.
>Now, I do have to ask the rather pointed question is: Why do you want to
> move it there? Am I not doing my job well? Is our network not
>performing well? Why do we want to take a great mailing list and ruin
>it by making it a newsgroup?
Rob, like you I much prefer a mailing list to a newsgroup. If someone
wants to start a public or private newsgroup, I say more power to them,
but I'm happy with what we have here. I hope you are able to continue it
for a long, long time.
Thank *you* for putting up with us,
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:29:33 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Linking Ships
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, you wrote:
> > At 14:48 31/01/2000 +1100, you wrote:
> > > If a ship is grappled with another and there is enough engineers to run
> > >both drive rooms but only enough pilots for one ship, can they jump
> > >together? (MegaTraveller answers please)
> >
> > if the "grapple" means that the grappling ship is designed to transport
> > ships of the appropriate size (possibly using a jump suitable cargo net)
> > then yes, otherwise no.
> >
> > Specifically, only one of the jumpdrives on the two ships can be used.
> >
> > You could have your pilot plot the jump in one ship, then transfer to the
> > other and plot its jump and have them jump separately, but this depends
> > on what you assume to be the role of the pilot during jump, jump entry
> > and jump exit. In some TU the pilot has things to do and this wouldn't
> > be possible.
>
> To emphasize the point - if you connect two J-1 ships together, you can
> not use both J-1 drives to jump the combined ship 1 parsec. You would
> have to re-calculate the jump capacity of the larger jump drive, taking
> into account the combined volume of both ships.
>
> Tony
I put my players through this one a few months ago. They had obtained the
location of a derelict ship Jump-1 away, so using their Jump-4 ship (GT rules
here) jumped out to it. I had the engineer and a few other outside practically
welding the ships together and integrating the lanthanum grids together. This
took them a couple of days, I then added a few more while the engineer had to
reconfigure the some of the Jump calculation software to accomodate the
severely altered Jump Grid configuration. All in all a week in deep space and a
lot of work for their engineer who fortunately was a workaholic.
All the calculation for fuel were for one engine to carry the combined tonnage.
Which for their 400-ton ship with Jump-4 to carry another 400-ton ship across
a Jump-1 meant that they had plenty of fuel.
And aside from an ancient artifact on board that seems to have some seriously
detrimental effects on the jump engines ( the derelict ended up where it did
because they caused a misjump ), they did really well. They don't know what
these things are or what effect they are having, but they are sure they have
some effect. Think of them as cursed magical items, that is until they figure
how to use them.
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:48:01 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Miracle
>I would much rather see this stay a mailing list than become a news group.
>
>Now, I do have to ask the rather pointed question is: Why do you want to
>move it there? Am I not doing my job well? Is our network not performing
>well? Why do we want to take a great mailing list and ruin it by making it
>a newsgroup?
>
>Thanks
>Rob
Who said anything about moving the TML to a newsgroup. I thought the
newsgroup idea was to have an *additional* resource for traveller, which, if
a public Usenet group, would be readily accessible to newbies. There is a
rec.games.frp.dnd, and a rec.games.frp.gurps already. Are you saying that
these have obliterated all d&d or gurps mailing lists? No? I didn't think
so.
Also, why would the people here want to vote against such a group? You
aren't forced to subscribe or post... Is it just that you don't want to
'miss out' on anything traveller related, but are afraid of the big, nasty,
Usenet monster (100kg carnivore/pouncer)? If so, you are already 'missing
out' on a lot of traveller related material on r.g.f.gurps.
Sure, there'll be spam and trolls, but it can be filtered. You won't get
flooded with 100's of posts daily, just download those messages that seem
relevant to you. Log on from almost any account anywhere. Visiting your
cousin Vinnie in New York for the week? read the news group from his
account. No need to worry about subscribing to the TML from his account and
unsubscribing when you leave in order to get a Trav fix. You can catch up on
your TML digest when you get home etc etc.
Yes, I understand and sympathise with those who don't want to use a
traveller newsgroup, but it won't mean the end of the TML (and may even lead
to an influx of new subscribers), so why would you want to deprive others of
the opportunity to have a newsgroup if they are 'foolish' enough to want
one.
If an RFD is put forward, I for one will be supporting it.
Matt
Matthew Bond
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"
- --------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:32:24 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: OT Pavis was Re: Traveller Topic Posts
At 2:50 -0500 31/1/00, "Jim & Peta Lawrie" wrote:
> >Yes. It looks superb - I did buy the RQ3 River of Cradles and Sun
> >County as well, but the original focuses somewhat differently.
> >Dom
>
> They're set a little later and there's less of the 'frontier' feel to
>them. The best things to come out of AH though, IMHO.
Shadows on the Borderlands was good too. I didn't bother with Dorastor though.
ObTrav: I spent nearly as much time hunting down some of the old
Traveller books as the RQ ones...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:00:36 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> I have a hard time imagining serial killers being that organized.
> They generally are solitary and paranoid.
While serial killers have historically acted in a solitary fashion, but
there's nothing that says that they have to be. Serial killers have
travelled in groups before.
On the other hand, I can't say that I've seen anything which indicates that
paranoia seems to be a particularly common affliction among serial killers.
> Actually, tending Xboats would be a good job for a serial killer. He
> (they're almost always male)
Yep. Even the few females out there are "marginal" serial killers at best,
less interested in ritual and more interested in cash. Although "black
widow" killers are generally lumped in with serial killers, I think that
they are a breed apart.
> could devote lots of uninterrupted time
> to researching his targets and would have a very wide range of
> places to operate.
To a large extent, any career which requires frequent interstellar travel
would provide a good "cover" so to speak. I can't think of too many serial
killers who research their victims at length, but on the other hand, that
could be because the ability to perform research on relatively anonymous
private individuals hasn't existed until recently.
>Serial killers are weird
That's an understatement. :)
> and don't like to interact with other people
Some don't like to interact with other people, and some do. One of the most
well known, John Wayne Gacy, engaged himself in all sorts of social
activities throughout his life. Dahmer frequented dance clubs, if I recall
correctly. Bundy was a lady's man. Those are just among the most famous
which I can think of. There are a number of others as well.
> and would be very happy on an Xboat... that extra
> "bedroom" could be used for lots of things, and think of the access
> to people's mail and secrets and things.
A good idea, and a frightening thought indeed.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:14:00 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1833
In , on 01/30/00
at 08:52 PM, GDWGAMES@aol.com said:
>>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
> >Subject: Re: Traveller Topic Posts
> ...
> >>Not to mention the fact that the chargen system was a game in itself.
> >>Hundreds of hours of solo play and planning.
> >
> >You know this is an aspect that Marc and the rest of GDW seemed to
> >forget about. Many a time I'd pull out my books and roll up
> >characters and send them through careers creating stories for them.
>Several of Marc's writings suggest this sort of thing as one of the ways
>to play Traveller solitaire.
Originally, yes, but there wasn't a mention of solo in MT (IIRC), nor TNE
(though Marc wasn't involved there), T4's rules seemed less apt for solo
games than they could have been (I don't recall mention of solo play in
T4, but I could be wrong), and who (other than Marc) can say about T5.
Don't mind me, I was (and am still) in a grumblely mood. When we old
coots get this way we just have to natter on about how much better things
were in the "good old days."
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1843
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Traveller-digest Monday, January 31 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1844
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Re: Foodrunner adventure free trader
Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Re: Frigate crew questions
Re: Foodrunner adventure free trader
Re: Imperial Murder Rate (was Swine and Villains or somesuch)
Re: Rules Question
Re: Serial Killers
Re: Serial Killers
Re: OT Pavis was Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Cool, ein dt. Traveller
RE: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Re: SOC (was Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1841
Re: Serial Killers
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Easy Admirals....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:47:23 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
Peez saith:
Could you elaborate on the reason(s) that we might be
aging more slowly at higher TL? I suppose that joint
replacements and other procedures would prevent the
loss of abilities due to injuries, but I'm not convinced
that we are otherwise aging any more slowly than we
were at TL 2.
You know, that's a good question. I don't know!
Better nutrition as a child? :) Yeah, that's it.
High-tech nutrition at early ages actually slows
down the production of "Chemical X" in the 20s,
essentially keeping the body in a healthy natural
state until the 30s or even 40s...
Yeah, that's the ticket...
Well, if we have anagathics to keep the old from getting
older, why don't we have better nutrition for the young
that keeps them youthful longer?
I can handwave that by noting that maybe 25% of my
ancestors bit the big one before age 10, and 50% of
them didn't make it past 30 or 40 years old... all
because of [HANDWAVING] "poor living conditions"?
So, maybe I actually need to make that table harsher,
penalizing people in low-TL environments.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:53:13 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Whither HG? (was Re: Traveller Topic Posts)
Via electronic medium on 1/30/00 5:51 PM, swordworlder@clinic.net wrote:
> You have two copies of the 1979 version of High Guard? You're sitting on a
> gold mine!
Aye, but missing data as well. I have the later HG, just what are you
missing? E-mail me off-list to avoid clutter here, and I'll help errata your
copy.
BZA
xrp@sierratel.com
////////////////////////////////////////
Akella 0609 C654474-6 S kk+ hi++ as+ va+ dr+ da+ so@ zh- vi++ A523
IMTU tc++ ?t4 ru@ 3i+(-) c+ jt au@ st- ls+ pi+ ta@ he+
"Reality is an open ended event with no beginning and no end."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:51:37 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Foodrunner adventure free trader
>Why do I mention this all, you ask? Because I now have a design
>spreadsheet, evaluation form, and blueprints for the renovated free
>trader. Would anyone like to put these on a web site someplace where
>others can use them? Or would anyone like a copy?
>--
>Erwin Fritz
>Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
>http://www.glja.com
I'd like a copy please!
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:56:26 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
>My only nitpick is that it's too easy to get promoted.
>The character I created went through the Naval academy,
>and instantly became an officer. From there he quickly
>rose through the ranks to end up, at the end of his 5th
>term, at age 38, Grand Admiral!
>Of course, he was a bit exceptional. His social
>standing started out at C, and rose to F (Duke!).
>So perhaps I can forgive that... but in general,
>does it seem too easy to gain a way-too-important
>rank in this system?
>Rob
My only problem is with the poor shmucks who want to roll another type
of PC not covered by an ExpCharGen, they end up with a comparatively lame
PC. Luckily, there are a few ExpCharGen's for other careers out there. The
Rogues from Dragon springs to mind and there's a Scientist one kicking
around on the net.
Your Navy guy enlisted through the navy-gravy train, it's a lot harder
if you come up through the ranks. Especially if your in a system navy.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:58:29 CST6CDT
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: Re: Frigate crew questions
First of all, thanks for your input...
Russell Bornschlegel wrote:
> - - I feel that starship pilots should be officers, especially if your
> fighter pilots are. In CT, someone with Pilot skill can fly a small
> craft, but not vice versa, from which I always inferred that starship
> pilot was a rarer and more prestigious position.
I was modeling this after the US Navy (but I admit that I don't know that much
about the Navy crew structure)...
Aren't carrier "helmsmen" ratings, while fighter pilots are officers?
My understanding of this is that helmsmen are under constant command (by the
officer of the watch) while fighter pilots, while on a mission, have no small
amount of personal responsability (even though they must answer to higher ups,
of course)...
Am I missing something here? Have I been watching too much Top Gun and JAG? :)
> - - I don't see anyone whose job it is to maintain the fighters.
Oops, you're right.
> - - I'd expect more than one commissioned officer in both engineering
> and gunnery. Maybe I lean too officer-heavy, but I'd bump about
> half the NCOs on your list to officer, and bump some ratings up to
> fill in the NCO slots.
I'm re-working this...
Andy Akins
________________________________________________________
True Communications Corporation Your Premier ISP.
"Hometown Service with Worldwide Connectivity"
http://www.truserve.com info@truserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:03:55 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Foodrunner adventure free trader
In <00c101bf6c3d$bbaf5ca0$c801a8c0@legion>, on 02/01/00
at 09:51 AM, "Jim & Peta Lawrie" said:
>>Why do I mention this all, you ask? Because I now have a design
>>spreadsheet, evaluation form, and blueprints for the renovated free
>>trader. Would anyone like to put these on a web site someplace where
>>others can use them? Or would anyone like a copy?
>>--
>>Erwin Fritz
>>Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
>>http://www.glja.com
> I'd like a copy please!
> Jim
Same here! I'd like to see as many deckplans, etc available as possible.
I'm sure someone on the Deckplans Webring would host your ship...right guys?
Eris,
and if no one else will do it, I'll put it on mine.
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:15:35 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Re: Imperial Murder Rate (was Swine and Villains or somesuch)
>Pete said:
>
>>> I bet it would be easy for a serial killer to operate in the 3I. With
>>> the vast population there are probably a million murders a day.
>
>Terry Carlino Said, in response:
Snip
>I ended up with a population of around 19 trillion in the Imperium, based
on
>the number of worlds (around 11,000) and the average population according
to
>the population tables (which could be wrong, I did it rather quickly). If
>I'm right on that figure, and I'm not claiming that I am 100% correct, then
>Pete's number of murders comes out to something like 1.9 murders per
100,000
>people, per year.
Snip
>The U.S. was listed as having 9.4 murders per 100,000 people in 1996.
>Somewhere around 4,900,000 Imperial citizens would have to be murdered
every
>day in order for the murder rates to be comparable.
Wouldn't it depend a lot on what is determined to "legally" be murder i.e.
what a planet's society determines to be the nonjustified taking of another
intelligent life? That definition might exclude death by deliberate
misadventure (legal dueling) and numerous other types of justifiable
homicide.
Legend has it that it used to be a legitimate defense argument in Texas, on
the grounds of justifiable homicide, to prove to the judge beyond a shadow
of a doubt that "Your Honor, he needed killing". I'm sure that some of you
out there have a low tech "Lone Star Planet" or two.
The definition would also allow deaths due to intentional or even
nonintentional violations of cultural imperatives, i.e. taboos, as
justifiable homicide. These violations usually are of a religious nature
and can involve "unsanctioned sexual activity", the uttering of "offensive
language" in an inappropriate place, being in an inappropriate place or even
eating inappropriate foods at inappropriate times.
As a final note according to the sagas murder in 10th to 11th century
Iceland was generally defined as the taking of another life and not
announcing the fact that you had done the deed. Of course announcing that
you had done the deed set you up for vengeance by the dead's friends and
relatives or at the very least litigation where in you could be fined a
wergild, exiled or even outlawed such that you could be killed out of hand.
In the final analysis one culture's murder could be another's praised
religious act.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:29:31 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Rules Question
Via electronic medium on 1/31/00 12:34 AM, jimpeta@primus.com.au wrote:
> What if the pirates claimed to be Bounty Hunters who 'made a mistake'?
Now there is an interesting defence. But if I won an exchange between my
crew and craft with pirates, and barring intervention by IN patrols or such,
I would make sure *no* defence on their part even /could/ be made.
MT? Well, how about some heretical CT flavoured input?
IMO, the prized corsair ship is up to debate depending on a few details. One
is the type of craft. The IN IMTU is not going to let any "warship" remain
in the hands of a private interest. A less threatening craft may be stripped
of any excessive armament and deeded to the PC's, as it helps promote trade
(they are trader's, right?) And that is the real Prime Directive. ;)
Auctions are held by the IN for items that are too military for civvies, but
not of interest to themselves. Megacorps, liscenced Merc companies, etc.,
get to bid on item's legal for them to possess for a per/auction fee.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:25:17 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
Was written:
>> I have a hard time imagining serial killers being that organized.
>> They generally are solitary and paranoid.
>
>While serial killers have historically acted in a solitary fashion, but
>there's nothing that says that they have to be. Serial killers have
>travelled in groups before.
The most obvious example from history which springs to mind is the "Thuggee
Cult" of the Indian subcontinent. Reportedly they were quite well organized
and may have lingered well into the 20th century.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:52:01 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
In <016101bf6c43$aaf11c40$bcee24cf@user39>, on 01/31/00
at 06:25 PM, "Daniel Phelps" said:
>Was written:
>>> I have a hard time imagining serial killers being that organized.
>>> They generally are solitary and paranoid.
>>
>>While serial killers have historically acted in a solitary fashion, but
>>there's nothing that says that they have to be. Serial killers have
>>travelled in groups before.
>The most obvious example from history which springs to mind is the
>"Thuggee Cult" of the Indian subcontinent. Reportedly they were quite
>well organized and may have lingered well into the 20th century.
Would you call the Thuggies, serial killers, though? They did what they
did, as I understand it, for religious reasons. Valid religious reasons,
given their culture. I think it might be better to call them Cult
Killers, or something like that.
Yes, that's another good idea that Bruce can scream about.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:04:07 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: OT Pavis was Re: Traveller Topic Posts
>Shadows on the Borderlands was good too. I didn't bother with Dorastor
though.
And that was mainly a few white darf scenarios cobbled into a campaign.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:10:56 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Following on Glenn Grant's idea for Jumpspace, and borrowing from
a certain Mr. Vinge, who writes science fiction, I extended the
idea as follows:
The reason that the Jump Planes get thicker closer to the center
is because of increased stellar density, which leads to more
local gravitational stress on space. One of the side effects of
gravitational stress is that it becomes more difficult to compute
safe jumps, and the longer the jump, the less tolerance for error
there is. So, for any given TL, the maximum possible jump
distance will drop the closer you get to the core, and rise the
closer you get to the rim. So, close in, you may very well see
stellar empires mapped in three dimensions - but even at what
would in our terms be TL16, their maximum jump may only be J2.
(And _really_ close in, it may take Ancient-level tech to achieve
J1, or even microjumps.) Out on the rim, where the stars are
farther apart, empires are flat, perhaps even flatter than those
in Charted Space - but J6 may be routine, and the fastest courier
ships may very well be able to do J9 or J10 at TL16. (And if you
get far enough outside the limits of the galaxy, you may be able
to make the periphery of the galaxy next door in a single jump.)
Unfortunately, we don't have sufficient intelligence from the
Zhodani (and their Core Expeditions) or the Solomani (and the Rim
Explorations) to verify this hypothesis.
(now, should I incorporate the Zones of Thought as well?)
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:32:06 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Dear Folks -
Rob Miracle wrote:
>Now, I do have to ask the rather pointed question is: Why do you want to
>move it there? Am I not doing my job well? Is our network not performing
>well? Why do we want to take a great mailing list and ruin it by making it
>a newsgroup?
My vote is to leave the TML as it is. Personally, I *hate* newsgroups due to the
low signal-to-noise ratio. I unsubbed from alt.rec.frp.misc, even tho' Trav was
(occasionally) discussed there, because of all the junk on it.
(BTW, Rob, why are we still in 1999 ? ;-) -only pulling your leg- ;-)
To my knowledge, the TML has been spammed *twice* (!! in 5 years!!), and even
then someone managed to turn the first spam (from Olga, selling Romanian
mail-order brides, for those who don't remember) into an adventure nugget!!
The absolute vast majority of messages here are polite; everyone is
well-behaved; the moderator takes notice if people justly complain about
individuals, and deals with it appropriately - what's the problem? IMO, Rob is
doing a great job!
Don't let the "Christmas rush" turn you off the TML. That sort of thing seems to
be normal for that time of year, and is totally different from how the list
members behave the rest of the time. If it worries you, have a holiday and unsub
from Dec 20 to Jan 5 (sort of like what I did ;-).
For my money, the TML is a great resource (I even found some new players from it
), and just plain good fun!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 01:47:13 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Hallo erstmal,
die dt. Fraktion an TML Mitgliedern ist schon klein genug, und als ich deinen
Namen las, mußte ich natürlich gleich schreiben...
Wie lange bist du schon dabei (Traveller), was (System/Millieu) bevorzugst
du, und wo wohnst du?
Ich (ca. 12J.,MT/GT, Trier), heiße Volker Greimann, und dachte, man könnte
ja evtl. von Kontakten profitieren (Austausch von Erfahrung und Kopien, etc)
Also, melde dich mal,
Volker
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:16:47 -0800
From: "Tsykoduk"
Subject: RE: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
I use outlook 2k, and it has a very easy threading feature (it threads by
subject, not 100% perfect, but it does the job).
Most of the other email programs that I have dealt with (ok, so only I have
only played with pegasus.. and Yes, I was a pmail snob) could do similar
things..
I go to the folder that my mailtosser rule tosses the TML mail to, and set
the view to 'by thread'. it's that easy :)
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Robert Prior
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 11:12 AM
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: re: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
>Myself, I have no problems with the mailing list as-is, I agree
>with Rob Miracle's view that the problems that do occur tend to
>get dealt with in a reasonable fashion.
Having for the first time tried out news software, I'll admit that I'd
really like to have the ability to follow subthreads that a _private_
newsgroup would give me. I wouldn't touch a public one unless you gave me a
new G4 to read it with. :-)
Is there any way to get the best of both worlds? Either email software
that keeps track of subthreads (by replies, not just by subject lines) or a
private newgroup that also allows people to read/post by email?
>I'm going to hate the natural result of suggesting this, but:
>
>Do we need to get some TML'ers together and make a
>commitment to completing the FAQ and keeping it up to date?
>
>Walt Smith
OK, Walt, I'll be the first:
Thanks for volunteering.
You post a rewritten FAQ here, we'll all comment, then you can post the
final version to Rob who can make it official.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 02:06:15 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
At 01:47 01.02.00 , you wrote:
>Hallo erstmal,
Doh! Went to the wrong adress!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:27:04 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Volker Greimann wrote:
>
> Wie lange bist du schon dabei (Traveller), was (System/Millieu) bevorzugst
> du, und wo wohnst du?
> Ich (ca. 12J.,MT/GT, Trier), heiße Volker Greimann, und dachte, man könnte
> ja evtl. von Kontakten profitieren (Austausch von Erfahrung und Kopien, etc)
I hatte keine Idea, dass wir auf Deutsch schreiben koennten.
Anyway, I'm sure most people didn't understand this stuff, so English is
probably better.
:-)
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:42:45 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Volker Greimann wrote:
>
> Hallo erstmal,
> die dt. Fraktion an TML Mitgliedern ist schon klein genug, und als ich deinen
> Namen las, mußte ich natürlich gleich schreiben...
>
> Wie lange bist du schon dabei (Traveller), was (System/Millieu) bevorzugst
> du, und wo wohnst du?
> Ich (ca. 12J.,MT/GT, Trier), heiße Volker Greimann, und dachte, man könnte
> ja evtl. von Kontakten profitieren (Austausch von Erfahrung und Kopien, etc)
>
> Also, melde dich mal,
> Volker
,
Perdon, no entiendo. ;-)
(That's the best I could do after two weeks of Spanish. Russian and
Arabic wouldn't send too well!)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:35:52 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: SOC (was Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Robert Eaglestone" wrote
> Well, I tried out the MegaTraveller advanced character
> generation system last night, and I think it is
> wonderful! A character runs through his career 1 year
> at a time, accumulating experience based on missions
> run and medals won.
>
> My only nitpick is that it's too easy to get promoted.
> The character I created went through the Naval academy,
> and instantly became an officer. From there he quickly
> rose through the ranks to end up, at the end of his 5th
> term, at age 38, Grand Admiral!
Others have already suggested that Robert was missing
the one promotion per turn rule for officers. I note
that since a Special Duty as an Aide/Attache gives a
promotion it is possible, albeit unlikely, to reach
010 in 5 terms. I have seen characters go from
_E1_ to 010 in 10-12 terms.
> Of course, he was a bit exceptional. His social
> standing started out at C, and rose to F (Duke!).
> So perhaps I can forgive that... but in general,
> does it seem too easy to gain a way-too-important
> rank in this system?
Yes it does, the big problem with Naval characters
is the +2 SOC in the mustering out rule.
Personally I would suggest converting generated
SOC (for all characters) so that each +1 SOC after B
(Knighthood) only counts as half a point of SOC.
Round down for the UPP but give a character with
an adjusted SOC of 11.5 a better title than one
with a SOC of 11. For example a SOC 11 knighthood
would be a life Knighthood while a SOC 11.5
Knighthood might be a hereditary Knighthood, or
membership in a more prestigious order of
Knighthood, or might be the Imperial equivalent
of KGC [Knight Grand Cross]. SOC 12 might be Baronet
or a ducal Baronet while SOC 12.5 might be an
Imperial Baron.
Example
SOC as generated Actual SOC
0-B the same
C B
D C
D C
E D
F D
G E
H E
[I is not used for stats]
J F
K or better F
[I once had a PC whose SOC would have been _L_
[20] if not for the maximum stat rules.]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:50:06 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1841
Well back in those days, at least in my gaming group, it was said there was
a problem with the original book and that the new edition fixed it. It's
been too many years so I can't remember any details.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Kimball"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1841
> I reject that statement. The 1980 High Guard Starship design sequence is
> significantly different than the 1979 design sequence (especially the
> weapons section). However, the 1979 edition didn't have _errors_!....At
> least from my point of view. The 1979 edition is the one that solidified
> the grasp of Traveller on my mind and banished the majority of thoughts
> about other rules systems. As far as volume goes, I made more '79 edition
> starships than all the other versions of Traveller combined (and I have
the
> grades from that year to prove it).
> - Joseph
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:48:23 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
Chris Seamans wrote:
>
> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
>
> > I have a hard time imagining serial killers being that organized.
> > They generally are solitary and paranoid.
>
> While serial killers have historically acted in a solitary fashion, but
> there's nothing that says that they have to be. Serial killers have
> travelled in groups before.
Would the Thuggee qualify as serial killers?
"Kill! Kill, for the love of Kali!"
Kali cultists in the 3I, anyone? ;-)
(BTW, there's a story in the _Alternate Warriors_ anthology [editor,
Mike Resnick] about Mohandas Gandhi as a Kali cultist. Good read!)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:40:56 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
At 8:45 AM -0600 1/31/2000, Eric Henry wrote:
>Hi. Several people asked about the excel spreadsheet i made re stars within
>50 light years of Earth.
>The spreadsheet is now available in a zip file from
>http://www.crosswinds.net/~ehenry/dskies.htm
>
>Here's a recap of the file and the data therein. The download is a zip file
>which you must unzip. It contains a Microsoft Excel 97 spreadsheet. BTW, I
>use Dr. Solomon antivirus version 8.01.
Someone ought to convert it to a tab delimited text file for folks who
don't use Microsoft Excel 97...
Bolie IV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:26:12 +1100
From: "Hughes, Michael"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Easy Admirals....
I came across the same problem so I solved it thus. DM -1 for each rank O5+
when rolling for promotion with +1 if Social A-B and +2 for C and above.
That way those that make it are generally from noble families (thus fitting
the Imperium mindset).
Any takers?
Oh yeah, I thought that a natural 12 or success by 6+ on promotion meant the
player could roll again for promotion and go up two ranks in the one hit. It
happens in RL (our chief went from Commodore to full Admiral in 7 years).
Michael
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:02:56 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone" >
Subject: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Well, I tried out the MegaTraveller advanced character generation system
last night, and I think it is wonderful! A character runs through his
career 1 year at a time, accumulating experience based on missions run and
medals won.
My only nitpick is that it's too easy to get promoted. The character I
created went through the Naval academy, and instantly became an officer.
From there he quickly rose through the ranks to end up, at the end of his
5th term, at age 38, Grand Admiral!
Of course, he was a bit exceptional. His social standing started out at C,
and rose to F (Duke!). So perhaps I can forgive that... but in general,
does it seem too easy to gain a way-too-important rank in this system?
Rob
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1844
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, February 1 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1845
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: SOC (was Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Re : Environment Question
Re : Aging Rolls
Re: Serial Killers
Re: Imperial Murder Rate (was Swine and Villains or somesuch)
Re: Re Pigs and Guns
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
Environment question
Re: SOC (was Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
RE: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
RE: OT Pavis was Re: Traveller Topic Posts
Re Aging and TL
Re: SOC (was Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Re: Re Aging and TL
RE: Serial Killers
RE: Serial Killers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:00:06 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead"
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
"Robert Eaglestone" wrote
>Peez saith:
> Could you elaborate on the reason(s) that we might be
> aging more slowly at higher TL? I suppose that joint
> replacements and other procedures would prevent the
> loss of abilities due to injuries, but I'm not convinced
> that we are otherwise aging any more slowly than we
> were at TL 2.
> You know, that's a good question. I don't know!
I do :) Preventative medicine. Today were grow up w/o having our bodies
worn away by various diseases like Typhus, Smallpox, and similar ills.
Add in the (admittedly primitive) treatments we have for arthritis and
many similar problems as well as all the advances in dentistry (bad teeth
was a not uncommon cause of debility & death a few 100 years ago) and I'd
say we have some bonuses on our again roll vs folks at TL 3 or 4.
How about if such trends continue? What if in addition to Antiagathics TL
14 medicine can fully cure arthritis, osteoporosis, alzheimer's and
similar illnesses. Folks still die when things wear out, but things wear
out more slowly. Sounds like some aging bonuses based on advanced TLs is
only sensible.
Comments?
- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:01:17 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: SOC (was Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
In <38963877.22F9CA5D@gci.net>, on 01/31/00
at 04:35 PM, Peter Newman said:
>Robert Eaglestone" wrote
>> Well, I tried out the MegaTraveller advanced character
>> generation system last night, and I think it is
>> wonderful! A character runs through his career 1 year
>> at a time, accumulating experience based on missions
>> run and medals won.
>>
>> My only nitpick is that it's too easy to get promoted.
>> The character I created went through the Naval academy,
>> and instantly became an officer. From there he quickly
>> rose through the ranks to end up, at the end of his 5th
>> term, at age 38, Grand Admiral!
>Others have already suggested that Robert was missing
>the one promotion per turn rule for officers. I note
>that since a Special Duty as an Aide/Attache gives a
>promotion it is possible, albeit unlikely, to reach
>010 in 5 terms. I have seen characters go from
>_E1_ to 010 in 10-12 terms.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a little noticed rule in there
about the maximum number of terms a character can take before starting
play. I know it's in one of the rulesets, maybe the T5 draft, but I know I
saw a limit of something like 6 terms.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 14:07:58 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor"
Subject: Re : Environment Question
Mark Urbin wrote :-
> Rangent, a world in the Marches, is described as having a standard
> atmosphere with a high Carbon Dioxide content.
> How would this taint effect those living on the surface?
> What could be done to counter it long & short term? (Tri-Ox shots anyone?)
By way of introduction :-
As a benchmark, currently the amount of CO2 in Earth's atmosphere
averages about 340 parts per million.
Levels above 10-15% would lead to a Venus style runaway greenhouse
effect over a few thousand years, in the absence of effective biological
or geological mechanisms to mop it up.
>From a toxicological standpoint, the effects are as follows :-
- - Toxicity
Carbon dioxide is one of the waste products of the oxidation of sugars,
proteins and fats. While the human body lacks oxygen stores, the
solubility of CO2 and its rate of production enables the accumulation of
the equivalent of three litres of gas (1 atm pressure, 25 C) per
kilogram of tissue.
Carbon dioxide reacts with water to form carbonic acid ; this is mostly
temporarily converted to bicarbonate to limit the adverse effects of
increased acidity on cellular function.
The only way to eliminate carbon dioxide is to breathe it out.
So an increase in the blood (tissue) levels of carbon dioxide is a
powerful stimulus to ventilation.
The minute volume doubles (product of respiratory rate and tidal
volume) for each 0.03 atm increment in the partial pressure of CO2.
Breathing gas mixtures high in CO2 'flattens out' the tissue to lung
pressure gradient, leading to retention of the gas.
Eventually the ability of the body to limit the increase in acidity is
lost ; this results initially in a rise in blood pressure and cardiac
output (in a futile attempt to deliver more CO2 to the lung for
elimination). The worsening acidosis depresses heart and brain function,
leading ultimately to unconsciousness and death from cardiovascular
collapse.
Initial symptoms include headache, dizziness, shortness of
breath, muscular weakness, drowsiness or agitation, ringing in the ears
and an acid taste in the mouth or a burning sensation in the nose, mouth
and throat.
Gas mixtures containing more than 0.06 atm of CO2 cannot be breathed
for more than five to ten minutes - collapse ensues from respiratory
muscle fatigue.
General anaesthesia ensues from the inhalation of 0.15 atm CO2.
Death will ensue in a few hours with levels above 0.25 atm.
As Anthony Jackson has suggested, Rangent may have started out as an
iceball and has been terraformed. Given the 'standard' atmosphere
rating, this process is almost complete (alternately, you could have an
atmosphere of mainly nitrogen and CO2 with an oxygen 'taint').
Anthony wrote :-
> There is probably an ongoing source for CO2.
Biological or geological ones are the only options.
> The solution would be to remove or moderate
> the CO2 source, though if you overdid it the world might freeze.
Acceleration of algal growth (e.g. by dumping iron salts into the
ocean) might be an option. How big are the plankton farms again?
Given that 'quake control' is possible at average Imperial TLs,
modulating tectonic activity is another option (enhancing one arm of the
carbonate-silicate cycle). How's that for a mega-technofix?
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
(who can only wade through the assembled digests on his weeks off).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 14:08:05 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor"
Subject: Re : Aging Rolls
Ian Ferguson wrote :-
> Could you elaborate on the reason(s) that we might be aging more slowly at higher TL?
My take on this is that as our knowledge of physiology, etc. improves,
life expectancy and ways to limit the debility associated with aging
increase. So we might not be living longer ('aging more slowly'), just
healthier ('aging more gracefully').
Aging rolls as described in Trav represent various crises due to wear
and tear.
Over TTLs 1-8, infectious diseases and malnutrition are replaced by
vascular disease, cancers and dementia as the leading causes of death.
Life expectancy rises from ~30 to 75-80 years.
Over TTLs 9-15, effective treatments and preventive measures lead to the
eradication of atherosclerosis (which eliminates ischaemic heart
disease, peripheral vascular disease and most strokes), most cancers
and most of the dementias.
Genetic screening and germ line modification, in the societies that
allow it, lead to the elimination of most congenital diseases.
The leading causes of death are now accidents and suicide.
Life expectancy is now closer to the 100-120 years predicted by
metabolic studies.
Once anagathics are developed, all bets are off.
The longevity factor present in pureblood Vilani would command
considerable medical interest to Terran Confederation physicians, I'd
imagine.
Rules stuff :- I used to give a bonus to aging rolls depending on the
homeworld TL a character came from :-
Pre-Industrial : -1 penalty
Early Stellar : +1
Average Stellar : +2
High Stellar : +3
to simulate the effects of the things I've described above.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:29:50 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
This is a response to Daniel Phelps, Eris "Heretic" Reddoch, and BlackICE
From: Daniel Phelps
I said:
> >While serial killers have historically acted in a solitary fashion, but
> >there's nothing that says that they have to be. Serial killers have
> >travelled in groups before.
Daniel and BlackICE independently brought up the Thuggees, Eris jumped off
the the top rope and questioned whether or not those folks should be
considered serial killers.
Personally, I don't consider them serial killers. Although I don't quite
have the same interest in serial killers that I used to, I do still tend to
be very picky about classification. I can't explain or describe what
criteria I would use to classify someone as a serial killer, but I know one
when I see one.
I would consider the Thuggees to be sort of cut from the same cloth as the
Haitian Bizango secret society, Hassan-i Sabbah's Assassins, the Ku Klux
Klan and certain other secret societies. All of these groups existed (or
still exist) and combined terror tactics with a sort of religious and social
legitimacy in the cultures and societies they existed within and near.
And yes, I do think groups like that would make good adventures seeds as
well.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:42:32 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Imperial Murder Rate (was Swine and Villains or somesuch)
From: Daniel Phelps
> Wouldn't it depend a lot on what is determined to "legally" be
> murder i.e. what a planet's society determines to be the nonjustified
> taking of another intelligent life?
I imagine so. I understand that certain cultural differences pop up on the
U.N.'s list (which covers homicides and suicides). In Egypt, suicides are
not reported to authorities beyond the local level, so their national
suicide rate is 0. On the other hand, I've heard it said that in Japan
fatalities in a murder / suicide situation all get reported as suicides.
Then there are places like the old Soviet Union, in which fudging such
comparative statistics is seen as a way to disseminate propaganda.
Still, I was just trying to work out what the homicide rate would be (in the
modern meaning of the term as it is applied in the West) in the Imperium if
there were a million murders a day.
>That definition might exclude death by deliberate
> misadventure (legal dueling) and numerous other types of justifiable
> homicide.
True enough. However, I imagined the sort of murders which Pete was talking
about were those which an interstellar serial killer might "hide" behind.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:52:37 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re Pigs and Guns
In a message dated 1/31/00 7:03:05 AM !!!First Boot!!!, aramis@gci.net writes:
<< Mostmid-caliber rounds (7-10mm) had
one-shot stops around 60-65%; One-shot kills somewhat less. [I only
memorized a few statistics. Sorry.] >>
What was the .38 special and the .38 special +P?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:00:08 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
Robert Eaglestone wrote:
>
> Peez saith:
>
> Could you elaborate on the reason(s) that we might be
> aging more slowly at higher TL? I suppose that joint
> replacements and other procedures would prevent the
> loss of abilities due to injuries, but I'm not convinced
> that we are otherwise aging any more slowly than we
> were at TL 2.
>
> You know, that's a good question. I don't know!
>
> Better nutrition as a child? :) Yeah, that's it.
> High-tech nutrition at early ages actually slows
> down the production of "Chemical X" in the 20s,
> essentially keeping the body in a healthy natural
> state until the 30s or even 40s...
Hey! If you don't want your share of "Chemical X", just send it to me.
I already have Sugar and Spice; all I need is a supply of "Chemical X",
along with Everything Nice, and I can create the Powerpuff Girls! ;-)
*ahem* Sorry about that. I couldn't help it! It just happened!
<>
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:57:57 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cuba, etc., with ObTrav
In a message dated 1/31/00 7:29:45 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:
<< It's the cigars! Everything since the Revolution has been in aid
of preventing this crucial resource from reaching the US!! :) >>
ROTFLMAO!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:30:32 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Environment question
It seems I wasn't clear enough in my original message.
What effect would a high CO2 level have on people (humans & Vargr) freshly
arrived on planet?
It's probably not too bad, since the local TL is 7 and they have algae &
fish farms.
Would they be perpetually out of breath, or only when then exerted themselves?
Would a quick shot of Tri-Ox compound prior to leaving the ship leave them
ready for a hearty round of bar hopping?
The stated goal of some of the crew, is upon landing for a cheap refuel,
they are grabbing the ship's air/raft and heading for the closest bar.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:34:46 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart"
Subject: Re: SOC (was Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a little noticed rule in there
> about the maximum number of terms a character can take before starting
> play. I know it's in one of the rulesets, maybe the T5 draft, but I know I
> saw a limit of something like 6 terms.
>
From each of the rule sets
CT From the Traveller Book page 19
"Retirement:
A character may serve up to seven terms of service voluntarily, and may
leave after any term (provided mandatory reenlistment - a reenlistment throw
of 12 exactly - does not occur). A person may retire any time after the end
of the fifth term. Retirement grants the individual an annual retirement pay
(in addition to any mustering out benefits); rates of retirement pay are
shown in the retirement pay table.
Service beyond the seventh term is normally impossible, and retirement
is mandatory for an individual who has completed a seventh term of service.
However, persons who throw mandatory reenlistment must serve that additional
term of required to serve additional term of service. It is theoretically
possible for an individual to be required to service ninth and even tenth
terms under mandatory reenlistment
MT the seven term limit is drop from the rules.
TNE no term limit, but after the 5th term, pc can only get 1 skill per term.
T4 same as CT seven term limit (page 22)(mandatory continuance is now 2 (not
12))
GT no terms used in char. gen.
hope this helps
Wayne
wewart@home.com
icq22113294
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/
The wage of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the
evil get to go home early on Friday.
- - Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad
(Terry Pratchett)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:52:44 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
At 05:45 PM 1/30/00 EST, you wrote:
>Here goes the "US vs the rest of the English speaking world"
flamewar
>again....
Hey, why limit it to the English speaking world?
- -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft
product.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:12:08 -0500
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)"
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal
Since there turns out to be quite a bit of trepidation among out there, I've
shelved the idea of doing a general "TML-style" group. The server will be
used for other purposes :-) We do not want to be seen as anti-TML in any
way. Carry on!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Colin Michael, WebDev
www.downport.com
The Traveller Domain
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ingo Heinscher"
> > I liked Swordy's newsgroup proposal because his was going to be a
> >private news server hosted by Downport.com,
> (snip)
>
> BTW: What's become out of this? (I had unsubscribed for a while...)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:25:39 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
> I'm going to hate the natural result of suggesting this, but:
>
> Do we need to get some TML'ers together and make a
> commitment to completing the FAQ and keeping it up to date?
Yes ! It would give us an excuse to argue over everything again !
Seriously, I'll be keen to help out.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:32:09 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: OT Pavis was Re: Traveller Topic Posts
> On Behalf Of SD Mooney
>
> Shadows on the Borderlands was good too. I didn't bother with
> Dorastor though.
You should, Dorastor is probably the best AH supplement, it's on par with
the original Griffin Mountain.
Get that and the Book of Drastic Resolutions - Chaos, which contains all the
stuff that didn't fit in Dorastor.
> ObTrav: I spent nearly as much time hunting down some of the old
> Traveller books as the RQ ones...
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:37:36 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Aging and TL
>
> Could you elaborate on the reason(s) that we might be
> aging more slowly at higher TL? I suppose that joint
> replacements and other procedures would prevent the
> loss of abilities due to injuries, but I'm not convinced
> that we are otherwise aging any more slowly than we
> were at TL 2.
>
>Peez
Lessee: Higher standard of living. Easier access to refrigeration,
innoculation and treatment of microbiotia, better medical imagery, better
replacement parts, tailored therapies[1], organ cloning[2],
regeneration[3], more accurate synthesis of nutritional supplements, better
radiation and hazardous chemical filtration systems, better treatments for
failing organs, less invasive artificial supports.
[1] Viruses, DNA implants, Etc. Direct DNA implants are being done NOW.
Mostly for hormonal deficiencies, IIRC.
[2] This is also being worked upon currently. Heck, just create a clone and
raid it for parts.
[3] This is doable in Traveller, at TL's of (IIRC) 13+.
Lots of little things, but they add up. Oh, one more thing I forgot: better
food sources, due to design.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:45:12 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: SOC (was Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
>MT the seven term limit is drop from the rules.
>Wayne
MT limits how many skills you can have, and it is ignored about as often
as the seven-terms-max rule.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:52:18 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Re Aging and TL
>Lessee: Higher standard of living. Easier access to refrigeration,
>innoculation and treatment of microbiotia, better medical imagery, better
>replacement parts, tailored therapies[1], organ cloning[2],
>regeneration[3], more accurate synthesis of nutritional supplements, better
>radiation and hazardous chemical filtration systems, better treatments for
>failing organs, less invasive artificial supports.
>William F. Hostman
A friend of mines a Biologist, he says that aging is a voluntary
choice*! When the little gene is isolated that makes your cells start
oxidising away and done away with aging mightn't be a problem at all.
Stay 27 until you die.
Jim
*So maybe he's joking, this is traveller, think outside the box!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:01:07 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Serial Killers
> On Behalf Of Chris Seamans
> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> > I have a hard time imagining serial killers being that organized.
> > They generally are solitary and paranoid.
Even if solitary, they still communicate with others who share their
desires.
Many who buy into the super-predator belief are too sure of themselves to be
paranoid.
> > Actually, tending Xboats would be a good job for a serial killer. He
> > (they're almost always male)
>
> Yep. Even the few females out there are "marginal" serial killers at best,
> less interested in ritual and more interested in cash.
There are quite a few non-marginal female serial killers out there.
At least two couples from England, where it took some time for the
authorities to realize that it was the female driving the killing, and that
it was the male who was the accomplice, in one case she almost got released
!
Couples are quite common, as they are much more effective working as a team,
and a killer then doesn't have to hide their hobby from their spouse. Often
one spouse is the driving force.
> Although "black widow" killers are generally lumped in with serial
killers, I think that
> they are a breed apart.
If they do it once or twice they aren't really serial killers.. When they
hit three or more, they often start doing it for the kill more than the
money.
> > could devote lots of uninterrupted time
> > to researching his targets and would have a very wide range of
> > places to operate.
>
> To a large extent, any career which requires frequent interstellar travel
> would provide a good "cover" so to speak. I can't think of too many serial
> killers who research their victims at length,
There are the "obsessives" who find out and collect all sorts of things to
do with their victim (clothing, photos, rubbish, etc) before killing them.
> >Serial killers are weird
> That's an understatement. :)
Actually, that's also one of the myths.
The 'best' serial killers, the ones that don't get caught, are remarkably
_normal_.
Most people don't realize just how similar to "normal" people most serial
killers are, and how easy it is for a so-called "normal" person to get
hooked on it. Once they find out how easy it is to do, and how great the
rush is, they get hooked. Nothing weird about it, we're all wired to enjoy
the adrenaline rush and sense of power a killing gives.
May people like to deny such feelings, but research has shown that even the
most moral, god-fearing, loving, mild-mannered, little old lady will get
excited when they think they have killed someone, even if externally they
are full of remorse and contrition.
When a serial killer is uncovered, all involvd go out of their way to
emphasize any "weird" aspects in the killer's life to try and distance the
killer from the human race.
For instance, if I was exposed as a serial killer, my roleplaying would be
used to show how weird I was and my enjoyment of mild B&D would also be
exposed as "weird" even though somewhere over 70% of the western world enjoy
some form of mild B&D.
> > and would be very happy on an Xboat... that extra
> > "bedroom" could be used for lots of things, and think of the access
> > to people's mail and secrets and things.
>
> A good idea, and a frightening thought indeed.
A _damn_ good idea, I'm going to have to run that.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:01:07 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Serial Killers
> On Behalf Of Chris Seamans
> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> > I have a hard time imagining serial killers being that organized.
> > They generally are solitary and paranoid.
Even if solitary, they still communicate with others who share their
desires.
Many who buy into the super-predator belief are too sure of themselves to be
paranoid.
> > Actually, tending Xboats would be a good job for a serial killer. He
> > (they're almost always male)
>
> Yep. Even the few females out there are "marginal" serial killers at best,
> less interested in ritual and more interested in cash.
There are quite a few non-marginal female serial killers out there.
At least two couples from England, where it took some time for the
authorities to realize that it was the female driving the killing, and that
it was the male who was the accomplice, in one case she almost got released
!
Couples are quite common, as they are much more effective working as a team,
and a killer then doesn't have to hide their hobby from their spouse. Often
one spouse is the driving force.
> Although "black widow" killers are generally lumped in with serial
killers, I think that
> they are a breed apart.
If they do it once or twice they aren't really serial killers.. When they
hit three or more, they often start doing it for the kill more than the
money.
> > could devote lots of uninterrupted time
> > to researching his targets and would have a very wide range of
> > places to operate.
>
> To a large extent, any career which requires frequent interstellar travel
> would provide a good "cover" so to speak. I can't think of too many serial
> killers who research their victims at length,
There are the "obsessives" who find out and collect all sorts of things to
do with their victim (clothing, photos, rubbish, etc) before killing them.
> >Serial killers are weird
> That's an understatement. :)
Actually, that's also one of the myths.
The 'best' serial killers, the ones that don't get caught, are remarkably
_normal_.
Most people don't realize just how similar to "normal" people most serial
killers are, and how easy it is for a so-called "normal" person to get
hooked on it. Once they find out how easy it is to do, and how great the
rush is, they get hooked. Nothing weird about it, we're all wired to enjoy
the adrenaline rush and sense of power a killing gives.
May people like to deny such feelings, but research has shown that even the
most moral, god-fearing, loving, mild-mannered, little old lady will get
excited when they think they have killed someone, even if externally they
are full of remorse and contrition.
When a serial killer is uncovered, all involvd go out of their way to
emphasize any "weird" aspects in the killer's life to try and distance the
killer from the human race.
For instance, if I was exposed as a serial killer, my roleplaying would be
used to show how weird I was and my enjoyment of mild B&D would also be
exposed as "weird" even though somewhere over 70% of the western world enjoy
some form of mild B&D.
> > and would be very happy on an Xboat... that extra
> > "bedroom" could be used for lots of things, and think of the access
> > to people's mail and secrets and things.
>
> A good idea, and a frightening thought indeed.
A _damn_ good idea, I'm going to have to run that.
Frankie
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1845
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, February 1 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1846
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re CGen and Aging
Re Guns
Re: got new stuff....
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Re Aging and TL
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Re: Serial Killers
Re: Re Aging and TL
Re: Serial Killers
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Re: Frigate crew questions
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
RE: Serial Killers
RE: Serial Killers
Re: Imperial Murder Rate (was Swine and Villains or somesuch)
Re: Corruption (was Re: Request)
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Re: Sword Worlder names
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:09:14 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re CGen and Aging
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a little noticed rule in there
>about the maximum number of terms a character can take before starting
>play. I know it's in one of the rulesets, maybe the T5 draft, but I know I
>saw a limit of something like 6 terms.
>
>Eris
>- --
CT had a 7 term limit,which may be exceeded only with manditory
reenlistment. MT does not explicitly have a seven term limit.
IIRC, TNE doesn't, but I'm Not Sure.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:14:51 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Guns
><< Mostmid-caliber rounds (7-10mm) had
> one-shot stops around 60-65%; One-shot kills somewhat less. [I only
> memorized a few statistics. Sorry.] >>
>
>What was the .38 special and the .38 special +P?
IIRc, About 62% OSS, and about 50% OSK, With about 2/3rds of the kills also
being stops.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:16:28 -0800
From: "Fred's E-mail"
Subject: Re: got new stuff....
i just got more stuff for traveller....i got the supplements 1,2, and 4 and
the megatraveller imperial encyclopedia...its really cool....this game is
one of the best RPG's i have seen...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 02:39:30 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
At 07:42 PM 1/31/00 -0600, you wrote:
> ,
>Perdon, no entiendo. ;-)
>
>(That's the best I could do after two weeks of Spanish. Russian and
>Arabic wouldn't send too well!)
>--
>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
On ni gavaritia germanski-yzik. Ja ni ponemaietia.
--Michel (Misha)
(apologies for conjugation... its been ten years)
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 02:42:17 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
At 07:00 PM 1/31/00 -0800, you wrote:
>"Robert Eaglestone" wrote
[snip]
>> You know, that's a good question. I don't know!
>
>I do :) Preventative medicine. Today were grow up w/o having our bodies
>worn away by various diseases like Typhus, Smallpox, and similar ills.
>Add in the (admittedly primitive) treatments we have for arthritis and
>many similar problems as well as all the advances in dentistry (bad teeth
>was a not uncommon cause of debility & death a few 100 years ago) and I'd
>say we have some bonuses on our again roll vs folks at TL 3 or 4.
>
>How about if such trends continue? What if in addition to Antiagathics TL
>14 medicine can fully cure arthritis, osteoporosis, alzheimer's and
>similar illnesses. Folks still die when things wear out, but things wear
>out more slowly. Sounds like some aging bonuses based on advanced TLs is
>only sensible.
>
>Comments?
>
>-John Snead jsnead@netcom.com
>
Hi, John!
Add in cures for cancer and HIV, a way to de-toxify social habits
like smoking and alcohol, and I figure this only makes sense as well.
--Michel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 02:48:48 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Re Aging and TL
At 04:52 PM 2/1/00 +1100, you wrote:
> A friend of mines a Biologist, he says that aging is a voluntary
>choice*! When the little gene is isolated that makes your cells start
>oxidising away and done away with aging mightn't be a problem at all.
> Stay 27 until you die.
> Jim
>*So maybe he's joking, this is traveller, think outside the box!
>
*What* "outside the box"?...
--Michel
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:12:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
Did anyone see a few weeks ago where Dr. Cynthia Kenyon was discussing her
latest research on the subject of aging? Cynthia's one of my bosses here.
We've got some worms that are living MUCH longer than they are supposed
to. Anagathics might not be that far away, folks.
Kiri=)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:30:38 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
At 17:20 -0500 31/1/00, "Matthew Bond" wrote:
>Also, why would the people here want to vote against such a group? You
>aren't forced to subscribe or post... Is it just that you don't want to
>'miss out' on anything traveller related, but are afraid of the big, nasty,
>Usenet monster (100kg carnivore/pouncer)?
I would vote no.
Why? because with trained use of the page down key I skim every
digest I get quite quickly. I don't want to use a newgroup because of:
1) Spam
2) Download time
3) hassle (opening loads of messages tends to provoke the mild RSI I have)
4) hassle (re-installing my news reader or having to stay online and
web browse it)
5) if it ain't broke....
So I won't be joining you if the vote gets through. of mice clicking as the TML thinks 'yeah, we can loose him now'.>
You loose me as BITS person (puts hat on) scanning it and responding
in kind. But that could possibly be done by someone else. If we could
find an active person....
>Sure, there'll be spam and trolls, but it can be filtered. You won't get
>flooded with 100's of posts daily, just download those messages that seem
>relevant to you.
Which doesn't help me and the DL time will be lousy compared to 3 to 5 Digests.
>If an RFD is put forward, I for one will be supporting it.
That's your perogative. Equally, I won't be.
I think Rob and co are doing a good job. If people wanted someone to
hold and post a copy of the FAQ monthly, I would be happy to.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:17:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:
> > >While serial killers have historically acted in a solitary fashion, but
> > >there's nothing that says that they have to be. Serial killers have
> > >travelled in groups before.
>
> Daniel and BlackICE independently brought up the Thuggees, Eris jumped off
> the the top rope and questioned whether or not those folks should be
> considered serial killers.
>
> Personally, I don't consider them serial killers. Although I don't quite
> have the same interest in serial killers that I used to, I do still tend to
> be very picky about classification. I can't explain or describe what
> criteria I would use to classify someone as a serial killer, but I know one
> when I see one.
>
Same here.
> I would consider the Thuggees to be sort of cut from the same cloth as the
> Haitian Bizango secret society, Hassan-i Sabbah's Assassins, the Ku Klux
> Klan and certain other secret societies. All of these groups existed (or
> still exist) and combined terror tactics with a sort of religious and social
> legitimacy in the cultures and societies they existed within and near.
>
I don't know 'bout the Klan-- how much mysticism is actually involved
there? All of those others are religious cults who kill for the God/dess
of their choice. People who do these things do not seem to have the same
kinds of motivations as serial killers (almost every serial killer I've
studied to any great degree was paraphilic, in other words, very weird
sexually.) Most of these groups, the Klan included, were defending some
ideal, even if it was one that we would typically find repugnant. Another
good example is Aum Shinri Kyo (which I may have misspelled-- I'm not sure
which vowels are supposed to be long cause I've never seen it written out
in Japanese).
> And yes, I do think groups like that would make good adventures seeds as
> well.
>
IMTU, one of the main story arcs involved a group exactly like this, who
happened to believe that the cosmic-string-spinning bugs were gods of the
void-- and they wanted to restore human souls to the peace of oblivion...
Kiri =)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:30:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: Re Aging and TL
On Tue, 1 Feb 2000, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:
> A friend of mines a Biologist, he says that aging is a voluntary
> choice*! When the little gene is isolated that makes your cells start
> oxidising away and done away with aging mightn't be a problem at all.
> Stay 27 until you die.
> Jim
> *So maybe he's joking, this is traveller, think outside the box!
>
He's not joking. Do a web search on Dr. Cynthia Kenyon (one of my bosses
and a VERRY cool lady.)
Kiri =)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:54:05 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
>> > and would be very happy on an Xboat... that extra
>> > "bedroom" could be used for lots of things, and think of the access
>> > to people's mail and secrets and things.
>>
>> A good idea, and a frightening thought indeed.
>
>A _damn_ good idea, I'm going to have to run that.
>
>Frankie
A few have mentioned the Thuggee, a Far Trader crew would be terrifying
Thuggee cultist's. People are rarely checking on that sort of travel. I've
read an account of Thuggee ritual murder (in a battletech magazine of all
places) and it is chillingly proffesional, they spend a long time getting to
know the victim. I'm not sure scouts would be good serial murderers, IMTU
they go through very intense psychological vetting as they are hauling
immensely valuable cargo. Of course, this would make 'the one that got away'
even worse.
I think your Hannibal the Cannibal types would still tend to live in Hi
Pop, Hi Law worlds, where there is a greater thrill in pitting their wits
against the authorities.
By the way Frank, I'm starting to worry about you. . .
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 03:57:37 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Bruce Johnson sayeth:
>Rob, you are doing your job flawlessly from my POV. The list propagates
>quickly, doesn't mysteriously go down for a day and pop back. The
>archives are old (unless they're no longer on ftp.mpgn.com...those go
>right up to 8/23/99 and end.) but that's my only quibble.
The first part I agree with completely. The second made me go look. The
August 23 archive happens to be v1999.n999, which is the last archive if the
directory is sorted _alphabetically_, which it is. Scroll up a few pages and
find the most recent digests, currently numbered around v1999.n1845...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 09:37:38 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Frigate crew questions
Andy Akins wrote:
>My understanding of this is that helmsmen are under constant command (by the
>officer of the watch) while fighter pilots, while on a mission, have no
small
>amount of personal responsability (even though they must answer to higher
ups,
>of course)...
IIRC the pilots are the best paid members of the crew, which suggests they
have
more responsibility than singing out "three points to starboard, aye captain"
:-)
I'd guess that it is partly because the pilot has to devise "evasion
manoeuvre delta"
or "attack plan omega" and ensure that the computers in manoeuvre, targetting,
life support, etc know what to do when the button is pushed.
Getting a Tigress to use its full agility to dodge incoming fire whilst
still pointing
the factor T in the right direction whenever it is ready to fire, yet not
swatting
your fighters on the hull tends to suggest that the pilots spend most of their
time off running computer simulations on that model/9.
So they'll need to be senior officers, just to kick the marines off the
computer
and stop them running their "Ultra Quake" training programs. ;-)
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 09:58:31 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Dom Mooney wrote:
>At 17:20 -0500 31/1/00, "Matthew Bond" wrote:
>>Also, why would the people here want to vote against such a group? You
>>aren't forced to subscribe or post... Is it just that you don't want to
>>'miss out' on anything traveller related, but are afraid of the big, nasty,
>>Usenet monster (100kg carnivore/pouncer)?
>
>
>I would vote no.
likewise.
Actually, I wouldn't vote because that would mean facing the Usenet
monster.
I find that sorting mail by subject and date gave a reasonable semblance to
a newsgroup style on my old mail program. The new one has a threads feature
that
does even better.
so the TML works for me.
By contrast, although I can spend a small amount of time reading newsgroups at
work I am not allowed to post to them. At home I am faced with long
download times
so have given up downloading even the small ones and would choose not to post.
Even with current traffic, I'd never catchup on the weekend news.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:17:53 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: RE: Serial Killers
Frank G. Pitt wrote:
>> >Serial killers are weird
>> That's an understatement. :)
>
>Actually, that's also one of the myths.
>The 'best' serial killers, the ones that don't get caught, are remarkably
>_normal_.
Some of the wildest guesses suggest that the activities of *one* *normal*
guy have added 10% to the murder rate in the UK over that last 10-20 years.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:36:30 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Serial Killers
> On Behalf Of Jim & Peta Lawrie
>
> >> > and would be very happy on an Xboat... that extra
> >> > "bedroom" could be used for lots of things, and think of the access
> >> > to people's mail and secrets and things.
> >>
> >> A good idea, and a frightening thought indeed.
> >
> >A _damn_ good idea, I'm going to have to run that.
> >
> >Frankie
>
> A few have mentioned the Thuggee, a Far Trader crew would be terrifying
> Thuggee cultist's. People are rarely checking on that sort of travel. I've
> read an account of Thuggee ritual murder (in a battletech magazine of all
> places) and it is chillingly proffesional, they spend a long time
> getting to know the victim.
Yeah, that works. For some reason I feel an urge to tie K'Kree into this....
Though aliens would be less scary than humans.
> I'm not sure scouts would be good serial murderers, IMTU
> they go through very intense psychological vetting as they are hauling
> immensely valuable cargo.
Intense psychological vetting can be fooled. The vetting is designed by
psychologists to 'trick' people whom the psychologists subconsciously think
are less intelligent than they are....Sorry, that was Hannibal. I've put him
away again now.
> Of course, this would make 'the one that got away'
> even worse.
And what about jump space ?
After all those trips, don't you get insanely
curious about what it _looks_ like ?
Surely just one peek won't hurt ?
See ?
No problem. In fact it's quite nice. Look at the cute little bunny rabbits
with the sharp pointed teeth. What's that you say ? You can't see bunny
rabbits ?
That must be because they don't want you to see them. They only talk to me.
Only I understand their vast cosmic plan...
> I think your Hannibal the Cannibal types would still tend to
> live in Hi Pop, Hi Law worlds, where there is a greater thrill
> in pitting their wits against the authorities.
True, also the problem with killing from an X-boat is that it's a pretty
traceable pattern, if anyone thought about checking it.
_That_ could be a challenge though, how to break the pattern..
> By the way Frank, I'm starting to worry about you. . .
Don't worry, first rule of succesful serial killing is that your victim
mustn't have any traceable contact with you. Then again, this is email,
whose to say my real name is Frankie ?
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:33:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Imperial Murder Rate (was Swine and Villains or somesuch)
In mail you write:
> Wouldn't it depend a lot on what is determined to "legally" be murder i.e.
> what a planet's society determines to be the nonjustified taking of another
> intelligent life? That definition might exclude death by deliberate
> misadventure (legal dueling) and numerous other types of justifiable
> homicide.
>
> Legend has it that it used to be a legitimate defense argument in Texas, on
> the grounds of justifiable homicide, to prove to the judge beyond a shadow
> of a doubt that "Your Honor, he needed killing". I'm sure that some of you
> out there have a low tech "Lone Star Planet" or two.
>
> The definition would also allow deaths due to intentional or even
> nonintentional violations of cultural imperatives, i.e. taboos, as
> justifiable homicide. These violations usually are of a religious nature
> and can involve "unsanctioned sexual activity", the uttering of "offensive
> language" in an inappropriate place, being in an inappropriate place or even
> eating inappropriate foods at inappropriate times.
>
> As a final note according to the sagas murder in 10th to 11th century
> Iceland was generally defined as the taking of another life and not
> announcing the fact that you had done the deed. Of course announcing that
> you had done the deed set you up for vengeance by the dead's friends and
> relatives or at the very least litigation where in you could be fined a
> wergild, exiled or even outlawed such that you could be killed out of hand.
>
> In the final analysis one culture's murder could be another's praised
> religious act.
Check Sheckley's book(s) "The Victim" (= 7th, 12th, something
like that). There are apparently two versions (with different numbers
as well as a movie.
The basic idea as far as "murder" is concerned is someplace where it's
*legal* for a group of people to hold a "game" that involves trying to
kill each other.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:07:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Corruption (was Re: Request)
In mail you write:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:54:25 -0500 (EST), shadow@krypton.rain.com
> (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>>But getting back to more "traditional" forms of "corruption", try
>>things like these.
>
>>Next time the PCs land on a planet with a "xxx Bureaucracy" type
>>government (or any of several other types) with a *high* law level,
>>and they have to deal with some clerk, have a list of the *official*
>>fee schedule for "bribes" of various sorts posted on the wall!
>
>>You'll have fun drawing up the possible "special services" fees and
>>shock a few players. Especially when they find out that the fees are
>>fixed. No paying more and you get laughed at for trying to pay less.
>>In fact *trying* to pay more may get you in trouble.
>
>>At lower law levels, bribes, if part of the system, will be more
>>flexible.
>
>>Just remember that "bribes" are *normal* in some cultures. Just as much
>>as they are forbidden in others.
>
> You can get quite creative with what the bribes are called, too -
> just off the top of my head, they can be
>
> - administrative expediting fees
> - consultation fees
> - prioritization fees
> - differential defrayments
> - information surcharges
>
> and I'll bet that the folks here can come up with other good
> ones...
But it's more fun to just call them "bribes" and watch the player's faces.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:44:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
In mail you write:
> Hi. Several people asked about the excel spreadsheet i made re stars within
> 50 light years of Earth.
> The spreadsheet is now available in a zip file from
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~ehenry/dskies.htm
>
> Here's a recap of the file and the data therein. The download is a zip file
> which you must unzip. It contains a Microsoft Excel 97 spreadsheet. BTW, I
> use Dr. Solomon antivirus version 8.01.
>
> The data is based on the CHview star data including Hipparcos updates. The
> each record consists of a star's XYZ coordinates in light years on the
> galactic plane with Earth at 0,0,0. These coordinates were transposed from
> the given CHview coordinates as they were not on the galactic plane.
> Coordinates are listed to one decimal place.
>
> Also included are the star's name, spectral class, and notes which may
> include additional catalog names or other data. Binaries will have lots of
> other data.
>
> Please contact me if you have any questions.
Any reason you can't export it to some more universal format? SYLK? DIF?
That'd make it accessible to folks who don't see a need for the fancier
versions of the spreadsheets.
For that matter CSV (or the older "quote & comma delimited") would
likely work unless you have a bunch of formulas in the spreadsheet. And
that'd allow importing into dBase or Paradox.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:52:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
In mail you write:
> At 8:45 AM -0600 1/31/2000, Eric Henry wrote:
>>Hi. Several people asked about the excel spreadsheet i made re stars within
>>50 light years of Earth.
>>The spreadsheet is now available in a zip file from
>>http://www.crosswinds.net/~ehenry/dskies.htm
>>
>>Here's a recap of the file and the data therein. The download is a zip file
>>which you must unzip. It contains a Microsoft Excel 97 spreadsheet. BTW, I
>>use Dr. Solomon antivirus version 8.01.
>
> Someone ought to convert it to a tab delimited text file for folks who
> don't use Microsoft Excel 97...
Comma delimited with quoted text strings is probably more universal,
and takes about the same space. It can also be read *directly* by BASIC
programs (and I've got a TP unit for reading it).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 01:09:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names
In mail you write:
> Dear Jens -
>
> Thanks for the name list!!
>
> BTW, I assume that the question-marks in the following:
> Bj?rn (bear)
> J?rgen
> (etc) are those o's with two dots above (oumlats?)? I know, I've tried
> sending
> these on the 'net before, and they either come out as something else (like
> question-marks) or are interpreted as control characters, and muck up the
> text.
Bj?rn is apt to have an "oe" digraph in it.
The Scandanavian languages have their own codepages for a reason.
Expect things like the "o with a slash thru it" character, as well as
the "umlauts" (diaresis, the double dot thing)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1846
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, February 1 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1847
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Environment question
Re: The d3 Question
Re: A new look at Gravitics
Re: OT: Seems you're all watching the superbowl...
Re: Serial Killers
Re : Environment Question
re: From: Mark Urbin
Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
Taking a Deep Breath (was Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal)
Re: Serial Killers
Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
RE: Rules Question
Delphi Sector
Re: Serial Killers
Re: Environment question
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Aging and TL
GURPS Traveller Question: Compartmentalization
Re: Aging Rolls
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 02:20:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Environment question
In mail you write:
> It seems I wasn't clear enough in my original message.
>
> What effect would a high CO2 level have on people (humans & Vargr) freshly
> arrived on planet?
> It's probably not too bad, since the local TL is 7 and they have algae &
> fish farms.
Algae will love CO2 levels that are *lethal* to humans.
> Would they be perpetually out of breath, or only when then exerted
> themselves?
Actually, since CO2 (rather than O2) controls the breathing reflex, you
are more likely to *hyperventilate*. This assumes normal levels of oxygen.
> Would a quick shot of Tri-Ox compound prior to leaving the ship leave them
> ready for a hearty round of bar hopping?
Ain't no such thing. There's no way to *inject* something that'll
supply more than *seconds* of oxygen.
And in any case, high CO2 *doesn't* mean that there have to be low
levels of oxygen. CO2 is toxic at high enough levels. At lower (but
still "high") levels it affects the rate at which you breathe. It'll
also affect the acid/base balance of your blood. Too much CO2 causes
"acidosis", which can result in various things up to unconciousness.
The rapid breathing caused by the excess CO2 can cause other things
too.
> The stated goal of some of the crew, is upon landing for a cheap refuel,
> they are grabbing the ship's air/raft and heading for the closest bar.
The bars will likely have *normal* air. Just remember your filter masks
for walking from the air-raft to the bar.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:09:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The d3 Question
In mail you write:
> I also bought a pair of round six-siders and like you I use the backgammon
> dice for shock value while rolling hits. :) I also picked up some of those
> D&D dice that roll passages, deathtraps, etc. You should see people's faces
> when you roll a die and it comes up with a skull with a large bolt through
> it..:)
I've never seen those. But way back when I bought a package of
"Traveller dice". A dozen *smooth* black dice with painted on *red*
pips. The 1 was an Imperial sunburst that covered most of the side.
I used them to roll damage in my D&D games and the players called them
the "Death Dice" because of the red on black color scheme.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:22:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: A new look at Gravitics
In mail you write:
>>> The way I use gravitics in my CT universe is as follows:
>>> The manouver drives of all ships as well as the grav plates of
>>> things like air-rafts etc. are essentially engines which can
>>> create, reverse and otherwise manipulate gravitic forces.
>>> This means you can use these things to move like the classic UFO of
>>> our age.
>> Nope. The "classic UFO" can do things like make right angle turns at
>> high speed. That requires *infinite* acceleration.
>
> I think you jumped the gun here (and i didn't define things either,
> which didn't help) I am saying that in my TU the ships behave like
> UFOs, but the upper limit is a maximum chance of accelration of 6G
> (Well actually 12G since they could go from 6G forward to 6G backward).
Which is *functionally* no different than what a "standard" ship can do.
>> As long as you have an acceleration limit, even if you insulate the
>> inside of the ship from the effects of the acceleration, your movement
>> will be vectored. So if you are moving at a high speed in one
>> direction, and start accelerating off to one side, your new vector will
>> be a combination of the old vector and the steadily increasing new
>> (velocity) vector. So your course will be a curve.
>
> Sure, you can do it that way too, and often you would, but in my TU the
> ships can also just go suddenly left (ie 90 degree sudden turn).
But as I noted above, a 90 degree turn *does* require infinite
acceleration. If the accel is limited to 6g, the "90 degree" vector
change *will* involve a transition curve whose radius depends on the
velocity at start of the vector change.
>> > You can add up 6G acceleration until you approach relativistic speeds
> and
>> > nullify the momentum squashings that would be experienced by characters
>> > inside the ship by use of the internal gravity plates, which compensate
> for
>> > the field being created outside the ship to provide acceleration. In my
> TU
>> > this has some interesting limitations for gaming purposes, mainly the
>> > acceleration max for ships is that 6G at a time thing, this is so that
>> > missiles can still be used. The reason given is that this kind of
>> > 'countering the external with an internal field' type of solution breaks
>> > down catastrophically after the 6G limit (In real life this is not true
> of
>> > course which is why the little Gray guys and the MIB guys with ships can
>> > make 14,000G turns in a couple of secs, but that's another story).
>>
>> To make right angle turns and the like, you have to neutralize
>> *inertia*, rather than acceleration.
>
> True, I used the term acceleration in a confusing way, mainly because I
> think of inertia merely as 'potential' or stored up velocity.
>>And that makes for *very*
>> different behavoir. For one thing, if you obey conservation laws, when
>> you cut your drive, you'll resume travelling at the same vector you had
>> when you turned it on. Which could be *very* fatal if the "intrinsic"
>> velocity turns out to be high, and aimed at a nearby object. Oops!
>
> Who said anything about cutting your drive? You wouldn't do that to
> manoeuvre, and if you are referring merely to landings and take offs or
> failure of the drives, then it can be assumed that the difference in inertia
> is merely adjusted at any given instant by some convenient black box
> property of gravitic engines/devices. After all...if they reduce people to
> jam all the time they'd hardly be approved for commercial use by the TAS no?
> :)
Resuming your intrinsic velocity doesn't turn you into jam. Hitting the
planet at that velocity does.
Basicly, inertia and acceleration are *very* different things. If
neutralize inertia, there's no limit on your acceleration *or*
velocity. And unless restoring inertia *also* restores the velocity you
had at the time you neutralized it (which won't count as an
acceleration) you have some *nasty* conservation of energy problems.
If you neutralize acceleration, you just need a counterforce of some
sort, and you get to *keep* the velocity changes you make while
neutralization is in effect.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:38:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: OT: Seems you're all watching the superbowl...
In mail you write:
> Well the list is either down, or you're all watching the super bowl, as the
> last post was received here at 21:55 GMT, about 5 minutes before the live
> coverage began here on Sky Sports...
>
> As I don't get to see it till tomorrow night (and then only extended
> highlights... grrr) could you kind sophonts please refrain from mentioning
> the result...
The results of the "Big Game"?
Wile E. Coyote -12
Roadrunner 33
:-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:08:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
In mail you write:
> I would consider the Thuggees to be sort of cut from the same cloth as the
> Haitian Bizango secret society, Hassan-i Sabbah's Assassins, the Ku Klux
> Klan and certain other secret societies. All of these groups existed (or
> still exist) and combined terror tactics with a sort of religious and social
> legitimacy in the cultures and societies they existed within and near.
>
> And yes, I do think groups like that would make good adventures seeds as
> well.
And just consider that someone trying to "revive" such a cult is going
to be working from confused and possibly inaccurate historical records.
This can lead to combining aspects of different groups. With jarring
results for the players who *know* better...
"Uh, guys?"
"Yeah?"
"There's a burning swastika on the lawn..."
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 22:30:52 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor"
Subject: Re : Environment Question
Mark Urbin wrote :-
> It seems I wasn't clear enough in my original message.
>
You were, check out :-
> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 14:07:58 +1100
> From: "Robert O'Connor"
> Subject: Re : Environment Question
for an answer, at least to the first bit.
> Would they be perpetually out of breath, or only when then exerted themselves?
> Would a quick shot of Tri-Ox compound prior to leaving the ship leave them
> ready for a hearty round of bar hopping?
Depends on the concentration of the taint, check the post referred to
above.
What the heck is 'Tri-Ox compound', anyway?
You need a filter system to scrub CO2 out. No pharmacofix will do
(unless it's some nanotech miracle).
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 03:36:30 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin"
Subject: re: From: Mark Urbin
> From: Mark Urbin
> Rangent, a world in the Marches, is described as having a standard
> atmosphere with a high Carbon Dioxide content. It's also a water world
> How would this taint effect those living on the surface?
> What could be done to counter it long & short term? (Tri-Ox shots anyone?)
Wear a mask (doesn't affect the environment).
Plant trees (and other photosynthesizing organisms) (could wreck the
ecosystem).
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 14:26:28 +0200
From: Antti Lahtinen
Subject: Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
> ... to see is that weapons which have good hydrosatic shock tend also
> to have large stretch cavities, which also means they are the most
> likely to damage the quick-kill organs...
(digging up my old research papers and articles...)
When I was conducting wound-ballistic research, I was involved
in pig shootings. The reason pigs were used was that their torso
has similar features and responded to damage in a similar way as
human torso.
The effects of hydrodynamic shock (or "HDS") was one of the
main things in that research, but I have never heard about
"hydrostatic shock". As far as I know, the propagation of
shockwave is governed by the rules of fluid dynamics, not
fluid statics.
In order to inflict real cavitation damage, the projectile
velocity (and resulting shockwave velocity) much be greater than
the velocity of sound in water (or in intra-cellular fluid). The
resulting temporal vaporization of body fluids can cause massive
tissue damage, but the required projectile velocity is so great
that most modern handguns can not reach it.
In practice the HDS and cavitation effects are considered
meaningful only when the target is shot with a high-velocity
rifle bullet. For example, a bullet form 5.56x45 mm NATO round
can cause HDS if the target is hit form close range.
A bullet from the new 5.56x26 mm BOZ pistol round (.224 BOZ) can
cause HDS if the pistol has long barrel and the target is shot
at ~20 m range. A Glock 20 can be converted to use BOZ ammunition
by changing the barrel. In a similar way, a 9 mm Glock 17 can be
converted to use the new 5.56x20 mm V ammunition (.224/V).
A good example of the lethality of HDS is the method how deer
are hunted from airfields and runways. The hunting team chases
the deer with a pickup truck, and the deer is shot with a
high-velocity bullet from low range. While cavitation effect
("exploding wound cavity") causes much meat loss ("mashed
meat"), the main point in airfield hunting team is not to hunt
for food. Instead they have to kill the deer as fast and
possible so that the deer does not collide with the landing
gears.
- --
Antti Lahtinen lahtinen@ee.tut.fi
Researcher, MSc (Eng) http://www.ee.tut.fi/~lahtinen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 08:24:19 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Taking a Deep Breath (was Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal)
At 11:30 PM 1/31/00 +0000, you wrote:
[snip]
>>If an RFD is put forward, I for one will be supporting it.
>
>That's your perogative. Equally, I won't be.
>
>I think Rob and co are doing a good job. If people wanted someone to
>hold and post a copy of the FAQ monthly, I would be happy to.
>
>Dom
>
Hi, Dom, and everyone else.
Um, what's the problem? The latest suggestion was *not* to
*supercede* or *exchange* the TML for a Usenet-news group. It was to create
*in addition to*. I don't understand why, if the TML is left alone, you
would feel compelled to vote against the creation of a newsgroup that *will
not impact* the TML... I presume you don't vote against every other
proposed list that won't affect the operation of the TML.
If this chap and a few others wants to get it set up, LET THEM.
What's the worst that happens? It langors and winds up as used as the "AGL"
or "Classic Traveller" lists? Uh-oh.... End of the world stuff
Seriously... we can have more than one Traveller resource. In
fact, in an era when the game is fighting to stay commercially alive long
enough for T5 to arrive, something that gets new blood familiar with the
name is good. Not bad.
Swordy proposed a wonderful resource off the Downport facility...
As an adjunct to the TML, not a replacement. He just posted that he got so
much static that he opted not to bother. Nice way to thank a guy who puts
so much damn work into giving the game a professional home. Instead of
encouraging him to add the resource we grief him? Kinda makes me angry,
really. I might not have opted to use the service, but I didn't nay-say
it... who am I to tell someone else they can't have a useful service?
Keep in mind, folks, just because you are not *for* something does
not mean you *have* to be *against* it. Abstainence *is* an option.
--Michel
(getting grumpy)
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
"Reality Error in Progress....
....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Cyberpunk: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020
Traveller: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller
AD&D: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:55:15 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
> From: "Chris Seamans"
> I would consider the Thuggees to be sort of cut from the same cloth as
the
> Haitian Bizango secret society, Hassan-i Sabbah's Assassins, the Ku Klux
> Klan and certain other secret societies. All of these groups existed (or
> still exist) and combined terror tactics with a sort of religious and
social
> legitimacy in the cultures and societies they existed within and near.
>
> And yes, I do think groups like that would make good adventures seeds as
> well.
Ah, well, the Assassins....
"As we know", the Imperial nobility are the secularised descendents of the
Knights Templar. What has never been explained is how they became
secularised. The most obvious reason is that they fused with a group that
did not engage in the same religious practices.
We also know that the Terran expansion was spearheaded by Turks - that is,
that this expansion was engineered by an illuminated group with substantial
bases in the Islamic world.
The Templars and the Assassins are known to have allied at various points.
It is quite clear that this alliance has been made permanent, and that the
Assassins rule the Third Imperium. And Dulinor Strephon
because of .
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:26:58 -0500
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)"
Subject: Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
On: Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:56:26 +1100 "Jim & Peta Lawrie" wrote:
"My only problem is with the poor shmucks who want to roll another type
of PC not covered by an ExpCharGen, they end up with a comparatively lame
PC. Luckily, there are a few ExpCharGen's for other careers out there. The
Rogues from Dragon springs to mind and there's a Scientist one kicking
around on the net."
I found:
Advanced Scientists is covered in an article in Challenge #29
Advanced IRIS is covered in Challenge #34
Advanced flyers are covered in COACC
I found rules for advanced Pirate, Belter and Spy character write-ups on the
web, done by Joe Walsh and located at Goeran's WWW site:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/4224/
Greg Svenson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:30:22 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: Rules Question
Jim wrote:
> If a ship is grappled with another and there is enough engineers
> to run both drive rooms but only enough pilots for one ship, can
> they jump together? (MegaTraveller answers please)
Okay, from Digest 14 we get a situation where a Type-A has a
damaged J-drive (hull grid is okay, but the rest of the drive is
toast) and a Type-T has a damaged power plant. It's a wilderness
situation so no repair facilities. The solution was to link both
ships together so the Type-A's power plant provides power to the
Type-T's J-drive (and into both hull grids). This requires a
physical brace (which allows joint maneuvering and links the hull
grids together), a power link between the Type-A's power plant
and the Type-T's J-drive, and a control link (between the two
bridges). The following tasks assume all parts must be scavenged
from the two ships only.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To design the bracing structure:
Routine, Engineering or Mechanical, Edu, 1 hour (uncertain)
Referee: Some truth indicates a hidden flaw which may cause a
mishap during construction. No truth indicates that the
design is faulty and cannot be built as intended, the
system will have to be redesigned from scratch.
To design the power conduit:
Routine, Engineering or Electronics, Edu, 1 hour (uncertain)
Referee: (as above)
To design the control link:
Routine, Computer or Electronics, Edu, 1 hour (uncertain)
Referee: (as above)
To build the bracing structure:
Difficult, Engineering or Mechanical, Dex, 1 day (uncertain)
Referee: Some truth indicates a warning light situation when the
brace is subjected to stress (ie. the ships move) ...
worry the players a lot but do not allow the brace to
fail. No truth indicates a mishap during construction
which may injure a worker or cause further damage to the
ships.
To build the power conduit:
Difficult, Engineering or Electronics, Dex, 1 day (uncertain)
Referee: (as above)
To build the control link:
Difficult, Computer or Electronics, Dex, 1 day (uncertain)
Referee: Some truth indicates a fault in the link that will
interfere with the proper impulse transmission and cause
a system shutdown upon activation. No truth indicates
that an accident has taken place during the construction
of the link.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
However, Jim, your situation sounds slightly different.
Depending on how J-drives work in your TU you may be able to
forgo the power conduit and just use the physical brace and the
control link. Hope that helps.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:32:55 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp"
Subject: Delphi Sector
Greetings, All,
I approach the list once more seeking a kind soul who might be able
to help me. I am currently working on developing the Delphi sector a
little bit, mostly to tease myself that I'm actually going to get to
play in this marvelous milieu. I've checked out the list of canonical
references to sector info that Don posted so many moons ago, and
found that Delphi has been detailed very little in official canon,
but where it is detailed, I have no resources to give me that
information. That is why I am turning to the helpful souls of the
TML.
The only detailed sector map that exists for Delphi is found in the
Atlas of the Imperium. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of that
book. Would anyone mind sending me a scan of that sector map via
private e-mail?
Also, one of the subsectors (Eta-Gu, subsector M) was detailed in
Challenge #45. Is there anyone who could possibly scan or send me
that information as well?
And that's all the canonical references I've heard so far. I found
the stellar data at the CORE website, but am uncertain of its
veracity, since some of the names of the worlds seem very randomly
generated, and the trade codes are not consistent with CT/MT systems.
(Did that change with later rules versions?)
Thank you for your time, and thanks in advance for any assistance
that you might be able to send my way.
Warm Regards,
Jason
=============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV
(512)458-7111 ext. 1+3375
Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes. For more info, check out:
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm
==============================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:29:30 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> I don't know 'bout the Klan-- how much mysticism is actually involved
> there? All of those others are religious cults who kill for the
> God/dess of their choice.
I was thinking more about the issue of their use of secrecy, terror tactics,
ceremony as well as their quasi-legitimate status.
> People who do these things do not seem to have the same
> kinds of motivations as serial killers (almost every serial killer I've
> studied to any great degree was paraphilic, in other words, very
> weird sexually.)
Yeah, I can think of too many who weren't that weird sexually.
> Another good example is Aum Shinri Kyo (which I may have
> misspelled-- I'm not sure which vowels are supposed to be long
> cause I've never seen it written out in Japanese).
I'm not familiar, but I'm interested. Would you mind explaining? :)
> IMTU, one of the main story arcs involved a group exactly like this,
> who happened to believe that the cosmic-string-spinning bugs were
> gods of the void-- and they wanted to restore human souls to the
> peace of oblivion...
Well, there is some truth in there! :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:09:52 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Environment question
>It seems I wasn't clear enough in my original message.
>
>What effect would a high CO2 level have on people (humans & Vargr) freshly
>arrived on planet?
>It's probably not too bad, since the local TL is 7 and they have algae &
>fish farms.
Depends on the levels.
CO2 partial pressure must be les sthan 0.02 atm for humans to breathe
indefinately, and less than 0.005 atm to avoid physiological stress.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 09:40:50 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
Robert O'Connor writes:
>Ian Ferguson wrote :-
>>Could you elaborate on the reason(s) that we might be aging more >>slowly
at higher TL?
>My take on this is that as our knowledge of physiology, etc.
>improves, life expectancy and ways to limit the debility
>associated with aging increase. So we might not be living longer
>('aging more slowly'), just healthier ('aging more gracefully').
There have been a bunch of posts that do not make this
distinction.
>Aging rolls as described in Trav represent various crises due to
>wear and tear.
>Over TTLs 1-8, infectious diseases and malnutrition are replaced
>by vascular disease, cancers and dementia as the leading causes
>of death. Life expectancy rises from ~30 to 75-80 years.
As you no doubt understand, this is the average lifespan of
a newborn. Even if people age in exactly the same way, a
reduction in infant mortality (perhaps the most influential
effect of modern medicine) radically increases life
expectancy. Thus, 2000 years ago there may have been
individuals who lived just as long as the eldest among us
today, but such long-lived individuals were much rarer.
It could be argued that the Traveller aging rolls reflect
the loss of ability due to injuries, such as torn ligaments,
damaged nerves, poorly set bones, Alzeimer's disease, etc.
Such effects could be mitigated by technology. However,
even in the absence of injury, our bodies seem to slow
down (although we probably slow down faster than we have to
due to inactivity). Perhaps there are specific drugs that
predate anagathics, drugs which slow the aging process.
>Rules stuff :- I used to give a bonus to aging rolls depending on
>the homeworld TL a character came from :-
The assumption being that the critical effect of TL occurs
before 18 years of age, quite reasonable.
>Pre-Industrial : -1 penalty
>Early Stellar : +1
>Average Stellar : +2
>High Stellar : +3
>to simulate the effects of the things I've described above.
This works for me, though it means that the aging system
presented in LBB1 implies that the average PC comes from
a pre-stellar society.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:07:41 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Aging and TL
Jim Lawrie writes:
>A friend of mines a Biologist, he says that aging is a voluntary
>choice*! When the little gene is isolated that makes your cells
>start oxidising away and done away with aging mightn't be a
>problem at all.
> Stay 27 until you die.
> Jim
>*So maybe he's joking, this is traveller, think outside the box!
It is possible that there is an "aging" gene in our genome
somewhere, or possibly a bunch of them. The problem for us
evolutionary biologists is: why would such a gene (or genes)
be found at all, let alone be found in everyone? If the
only effect of gene X is to make an organism age, that
organism's competitors can be expected to produce more
offspring and therefore the X gene should tend to disappear.
On the other hand, if the X gene promotes higher rates of
reproduction in youth at the cost of aging effects later,
then it is easy to see how such a gene may outcompete its
competators. If this is the case, eliminating aging
without reducing health in some way may be tricky.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:08:05 CST6CDT
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: GURPS Traveller Question: Compartmentalization
Hey there folks,
Maybe I'm blind, but can anyone tell me what the tangible game effects of
having Heavy or Total Compartmentalization is? I certainly understand the
concepts, and such...but I cannot seem to find the rule(s) that describe what
the effect of having either is.
Thanks!
Andy
Akins
________________________________________________________
True Communications Corporation Your Premier ISP.
"Hometown Service with Worldwide Connectivity"
http://www.truserve.com info@truserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:16:54 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
Robert Eaglestone writes:
>Peez saith:
> Could you elaborate on the reason(s) that we might be
> aging more slowly at higher TL?
>You know, that's a good question. I don't know!
>Better nutrition as a child? :) Yeah, that's it.
It seems reasonable that good nutrition in youth should
extend your lifespan. Interestingly, there is evidence
that reducing the caloric intake of rats increases their
lifespan, but I don't know at what age the rats had
their diet restricted.
Peez
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1847
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, February 1 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1848
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: Imperial Murder Rate
High CO2 levels
Re: Serial Killers
Rules of the Hunt
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Re: GURPS Traveller Question: Compartmentalization
Re: Frigate crew questions (LONG)
Cults
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: GT Compartmentalization
Turks in Space!
Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
Re: Guns
Re: A new look at gravitics
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Re: Re CGen and Aging
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:30:21 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Imperial Murder Rate
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>Check Sheckley's book(s) "The Victim" (= 7th, 12th, something
>like that). There are apparently two versions (with different numbers
>as well as a movie.
>
>The basic idea as far as "murder" is concerned is someplace where it's
>*legal* for a group of people to hold a "game" that involves trying to
>kill each other.
This book/movie was one of the inspirational materials for Steve Jackson
Games' live-action RPG _Killer_.
A good bit from the book, IIRC: A hunter tries to run down a target in a car. She
runs across the street and opens fire, killing the hunter. A nearby police
officer comes up and checks their game documents, declares it a legal
murder, then writes her a ticket for jaywalking. "But he was trying to kill me!",
she protests. "Well, had he succeeded, I'd be writing him a ticket for reckless
driving."
ObTrav: A society can have one or more "wrong" things be legal, and still
have a very high law level. The once-over by the IISS might not see this,
though - the place might be a police state, the Scout doing the survey
might just see the armed populace shooting each other with some
frequency and call it law level 0. It so happens that 80% of the population
is Military, Police, or "Noble Citizen" status, and they have an unusual
code duello.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:42:46 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: High CO2 levels
Robert O'Connor Medico, Gamer types:
>Depends on the concentration of the taint, check the post referred to
>above.
>What the heck is 'Tri-Ox compound', anyway?
Old TOS reference. The episode were Spock gets lost in mating fever and
attacks Kirk.
To counteract the thin air, Dr. McCoy states that he wants to give Kirk a
shot of 'Tri-Ox' compound.
That was not what he shot Kirk up with, but that's a different story
>You need a filter system to scrub CO2 out. No pharmacofix will do
>(unless it's some nanotech miracle).
No nanotech unless it's imported.
So, my call on this will be...high CO2 levels are way most of the system's
population lives off planet, either in orbit or in the Belt. Definitely
doable at TL 7 with higher tech holdovers and imports. Just because we
here and now (TL 7) don't have permanent orbital outposts and asteroid belt
mining doesn't mean we couldn't.
[Just how we could is left as a gearhead exercise]
The planetary population lives mostly in large city-ships with
air-locks. Independent operators, ship owners and pilots have sealed
cabins and filter masks.
The crew can buy local CO2 filter masks at the High Port or carry Oxygen
tanks and take frequent hits.
Oxygen bars are probably popular with those who work outside a lot.
Since it's 'taint', I'm saying the level is low enough that short term
exposure won't *kill* you.
Thanks to everyone for the help!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/ Opinions Mine!
COFFEE.EXE Missing - Insert Cup and Press Any Key.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:53:30 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich"
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
> May people like to deny such feelings, but research has shown that even
the
> most moral, god-fearing, loving, mild-mannered, little old lady will get
> excited when they think they have killed someone, even if externally they
> are full of remorse and contrition.
I would be interested in seeing such research. This would mean that the
researchers must have devised some way of reliably determining an
individual's internal state of mind independant of their external behavior.
AFAIK this has not been achieved, assuming you aren't counting such
error-ridden methods as the polygraph machine or any of a number of
personality tests.
Not to mention that 'excited' is a pretty broad term, not necessarily
equating to positive arousal that feels good. 'Excited' can also mean
'scared out of your f***ing mind,' and not be a pleasant experience
whatsoever.
Ciao,
Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:58:05 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart"
Subject: Rules of the Hunt
>
> Check Sheckley's book(s) "The Victim" (= 7th, 12th, something
> like that). There are apparently two versions (with different numbers
> as well as a movie.
>
That would be the series "The 10th Victim", "Victim Prime", and "Hunter
Victim"
inside the cover of the book you find
The Rules of the Hunt
1. The Hunt is open to anyone 18 years of age or older, regardless of race,
religion, or sex
2. Once you join, you're in for all Hunts, five as Victim, five as Hunter.
3. Hunters receive the name, address, and photograph of their victim.
4. Victims are only notified that a Hunter is after them.
5. All kills must be performed in person, i.e., by the Hunter or Victim
him/herself, no proxies.
6. There are severe penalties for killing the wrong person.
7. A Tens winner is awarded almost unlimited civil, financial, political,
and sexual rights.
8. (I added this rule for MTU) The Hunter/Victim can only leave the world as
a Tens winner or in a bag.
ObTrav. I've used this in one of my early CT games as follows.
The PCs land on a world (In MTU any of the Swordworlds) were the Hunt is THE
sport to watch/play and (as per "the 10th Victim") the Hunt can happen
anywhere on the world. They interrupt a Hunter/Victim match (we all know
that PCs think anyone with a gun is after them) and kill the Hunter/Victim
or both. After a short trial, each of the PC's are forced to enter the Hunt
as Victims for all ten matches. WEG
Wayne
wewart@home.com
icq22113294
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/
Give a man fire and he is warm for the night.
Set a man on fire and he is warm all his life.
- - Terry Pratchett
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:15:50 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Here's an update.
First, I've expanded the data set to include stars out to 150 light years.
However, i will point out that parallax measurements become less reliable
beyond about 20 parsecs, or 60+ light years. Indeed some stars might be
missed altogether but those would most likely be M class and later K class
no, not the car ) stars. And just to clarify, all of the coordinates are
listed in light years.
Second, there are now two files inside the zip file, which is now at 1300kb.
2a) The Excel spreadsheet contains the raw data, galactic coordinate
conversions, distance from Sol measurements, as well as the underlying
equations. In this way, people can check the source or equations for errors
or insert new data as it becomes available.
Note! The spreadsheet is not protected from user changes. I recommend you
make a copy of the original file before you manipulate the data.
2b). The zip file also contains a comma separated values file, aka comma
delimited file of the same data. There are no equations here obviously,
just the data values. This file can be imported into your favorite
spreadsheet or database file.
However! The notes and remarks section of the catalog uses a comma between
each individual remark. During the import process i recommend you keep all
the notes in one field until you decide how you want it broken down.
Here's the link again. http://www.crosswinds.net/~ehenry/dskies.htm
please contact me if you have any questions. i may do other formats or
datasets if there is interest. y'all will have to let me know. Also let me
know how things can be improved. Thanks
- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson
>In mail you write:
>>
>> Please contact me if you have any questions.
>
>Any reason you can't export it to some more universal format? SYLK? DIF?
>That'd make it accessible to folks who don't see a need for the fancier
>versions of the spreadsheets.
>
>For that matter CSV (or the older "quote & comma delimited") would
>likely work unless you have a bunch of formulas in the spreadsheet. And
>that'd allow importing into dBase or Paradox.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 11:03:09 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Re: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
Funny guy.
Turns out I missed one of the many "loose rules" which
float around this system: an officer can't get promoted
more than once a term.
Rob
"Smart, David J (David)" wrote:
>
> > From: Robert Eaglestone [mailto:eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com]
> > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 10:03 AM
> > To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> > Cc: Val Dauterive; Frederick Vogel; dasmart@lucent.com
> > Subject: Official Traveller Character Generation System Thread 2000
> >
> >
> > Well, I tried out the MegaTraveller advanced character
> > generation system last night, and I think it is
> > wonderful! A character runs through his career 1 year
> > at a time, accumulating experience based on missions
> > run and medals won.
> >
> > My only nitpick is that it's too easy to get promoted.
> > The character I created went through the Naval academy,
> > and instantly became an officer. From there he quickly
> > rose through the ranks to end up, at the end of his 5th
> > term, at age 38, Grand Admiral!
> >
> > Of course, he was a bit exceptional. His social
> > standing started out at C, and rose to F (Duke!).
> > So perhaps I can forgive that... but in general,
> > does it seem too easy to gain a way-too-important
> > rank in this system?
> >
> > Rob
>
> In a word, no. Keep in mind that PCs are supposed to be
> exceptional. Exceptionally insane, maybe, but exceptional.
>
> After all, who in their right mind would strive to make a
> multi-million credit fortune and sink it all into a single
> starship, usually resulting in monthly bills on the order
> of tens of thousands of credits, very little cash flow, and
> (odds are) being shot up or killed?
>
> Brings to mind Billy Crystal's "Have fun stormin' the castle!"
>
> David
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:12:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Question: Compartmentalization
igor@truserve.com writes:
> Hey there folks,
>
> Maybe I'm blind, but can anyone tell me what the tangible game effects of
> having Heavy or Total Compartmentalization is? I certainly understand the
> concepts, and such...but I cannot seem to find the rule(s) that describe
> what the effect of having either is.
It divides the effects of pressure loss by 5 or 10; this information is not
in GT. Since GT doesn't have any rules for losing atmosphere on a hit this
is of limited value, I'd say that an uncompartmentalized ship which has taken one critical is completely depressurized, a ship with partial
compartmentalization is 20% depressurized per critical, a ship with full is
10% per critical.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:14:47 CST6CDT
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: Re: Frigate crew questions (LONG)
Well, I reworked my crew for my Frigate.
I thought about it, and I decided that I needed to approach it from a different
angle - did I have enough crew to deal with each of the watches.
I figure three watches, each 8 hours long. The work duty would be one watch on,
one watch "rest", and one watch "sleep". The rest watch would be when people
could study, relax, and work on miscellaneous things (both work and relaxing
related).
The Shift schedule I came up with:
Position 1st Watch 2nd Watch 3rd Watch
====================================================================
Cmd. Officer Captain XO Tactical
Helm Pilot Navigator Operations
Electronics Communications Sensors Analysis
Medical Chief Medic Medic Medic
Engineering Cmd. Chief Engineer Power Supervisor Jump Engineer
Power Supervisor Power Chief Power Hand Power Hand
Power Crew 2 Drivehands 2 Drivehands 2 Drivehands
Jump Supervisor Jump Chief Drivehand Drivehand
Jump Crew Drivehand Drivehand Drivehand
M1 Supervisor Drivehand Maneuver 1 Chief Drivehand
M1 Crew 2 Drivehands 2 Drivehands 2 Drivehands
M2 Supervisor Drivehand Maneuver 1 Chief Drivehand
M2 Crew 2 Drivehands 2 Drivehands 2 Drivehands
M3 Supervisor Drivehand Maneuver 1 Chief Drivehand
M3 Crew 2 Drivehands 2 Drivehands 2 Drivehands
Missile 1 Missile Chief Missile Gunner Missile Gunner
Missile 2 Missile Gunner Missile Chief Missile Gunner
PA 1 PA Gunner PA Gunner PA Chief
PA 2 PA Chief PA Gunner PA Gunner
Laser Chief + Gunner 2 Laser Gunners 2 Laser Gunners
Sandcaster Sand Gunner Sand Gunner Sand Gunner
Maintenance Chief + Hand 2 Hands 2 Hands
Galley Chief Steward Steward Steward
Flight Crews:
Pinnace Crew (Pilot, co-pilot, engineer) - on duty watch 1.
Fighter Pilots (4) - Shifting watches, one pilot on duty each shift.
Thus, the bridge and engineering are all manned 24hrs, the bay weapons are
manned (at half crew), 2 lasers and 1 sand are manned, etc...
During jump, of course, the crew are not actually sitting in their weapons -
but they might be doing maintenance or drills. Same with the maneuver crew.
Here's the officer/nco/ratings breakdown:
Officers (x14):
Captain (Captain)
Executive Officer (Cmmdr)
Tactical Officer (Lt. Cmmdr)
Helmsman (Lt)
Navigator (Ensign)
Operations (Ensign)
Chief Medical Officer (Lt. Cmmdr)
Chief Engineer (Lt. Cmmdr)
Power Supervisor (Lt)
Jump Drive Supervisor (Ensign)
4 x Fighter Pilots (Varies)
NCOs (x28):
Communications
Sensors
Analysis
2 x Medic
Power Chief
Jump Drive Chief
3 x Maneuver Chief (one for each drive)
2 x Power Drivehand
2 x Jump Drivehand
6 x Maneuver Drivehands (two for each drive)
2 x Missile Chiefs
2 x PA Chiefs
Laser Chief
Maintenance Chief
Chief Steward
Pinnace Pilot
Ratings (x52):
6 x Power Drivehand
3 x Jump Drivehand
18 x Maneuver Drivehands
4 x Missile Gunners
4 x PA Gunners
5 x Laser Gunners
3 x Sandcaster Gunners
5 x Maintenance Hands
2 x Stewards
Pinnace Co-Pilot
Pinnace Flight Engineer
For a total crew of 94.
So....comments?
Andy
Akins
________________________________________________________
True Communications Corporation Your Premier ISP.
"Hometown Service with Worldwide Connectivity"
http://www.truserve.com info@truserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 09:24:17 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Cults
>From: "Chris Seamans"
>Subject: Re: Serial Killers
...
>> Another good example is Aum Shinri Kyo (which I may have
>> misspelled-- I'm not sure which vowels are supposed to be long
>> cause I've never seen it written out in Japanese).
>
>I'm not familiar, but I'm interested. Would you mind explaining? :)
Think "nerve gas attacks", IIRC.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:22:46 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
>Here goes the "US vs the rest of the English speaking world" flamewar
>again....
We speak ENGLISH in the U.S.? No wonder Churchill claimed that Britain and
America were two countries divided by a common language.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:38:41 -0600 (EST)
From: Christopher Thrash
Subject: Re: GT Compartmentalization
> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:08:05 CST6CDT
> From: igor@truserve.com
> Subject: GURPS Traveller Question: Compartmentalization
>
> Maybe I'm blind, but can anyone tell me what the tangible game effects of
> having Heavy or Total Compartmentalization is? I certainly understand the
> concepts, and such...but I cannot seem to find the rule(s) that describe what
> the effect of having either is.
(1) Increases the frequency and strength of internal bulkheads, hatches,
etc.
(2) Raises the damage threshold for decompression, from 10% to 20% (Heavy)
or 50% (Total).
(3) Increases the ship's resistance to leaks from corrosive atmospheres.
(4) Reduces the risk and consequences of internal fires.
Most of these weren't specified in GT due to space constraints, but you
can find them in GURPS Vehicles (if you know where to look -- they're
spread throughout the book).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:12:31 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Turks in Space!
>From: "Alan Bradley"
>Subject: Re: Serial Killers
...
>We also know that the Terran expansion was spearheaded by Turks - that is,
>that this expansion was engineered by an illuminated group with substantial
>bases in the Islamic world.
That's what they _want_ you to think (or was the Discordians?)! The
Anatolians religion is their own power - witness the fashion in which
they allowed Turkey to secularize after the Great War!
But even that's a distraction to the real mystery - why did the Bavarians
flee Terra before the IW's, and why did they think that they'd never be found?
(c'mon, the Islands are obscure, but naming a world Neubayerne was a little
blatant unless they mistakenly never expected visitors...)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 11:14:46 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Newsgroup/List FAQ proposal -- The Admin's Perspective
DOH!
I'm sorry, Rob...I officially Un-Quibble...
GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
>
> Bruce Johnson sayeth:
>
> >Rob, you are doing your job flawlessly from my POV. The list propagates
> >quickly, doesn't mysteriously go down for a day and pop back. The
> >archives are old (unless they're no longer on ftp.mpgn.com...those go
> >right up to 8/23/99 and end.) but that's my only quibble.
>
> The first part I agree with completely. The second made me go look. The
> August 23 archive happens to be v1999.n999, which is the last archive if the
> directory is sorted _alphabetically_, which it is. Scroll up a few pages and
> find the most recent digests, currently numbered around v1999.n1845...
>
> GC
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:59:55 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Guns
William F. Hostman wrote:
>
> ><< Mostmid-caliber rounds (7-10mm) had
> > one-shot stops around 60-65%; One-shot kills somewhat less. [I only
> > memorized a few statistics. Sorry.] >>
> >
> >What was the .38 special and the .38 special +P?
>
> IIRc, About 62% OSS, and about 50% OSK, With about 2/3rds of the kills also
> being stops.
If 2/3 of the kills were also stops, doesn't this mean that 1/3 of
those killed kept on coming? :)
Hmm... necromantic instant zombie bullets!
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:01:08 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: A new look at gravitics
From: Giuseppe
> You did notice I said they come to pieces after 1 light second of distance
> yes? And once you have sent them off there's no way to stop them. It's a
> fire and forget thing. In my TU you CAN hop in and out of jumpspace, but
> only at that one prescribed frequency I mentioned of some 1000 cycles per
> second and only for a maximum travel distance of 1 light second. Hardly
> worth it for anything other than missiles.
Hardly worth it? To be able to travel at Warp 10* would be a
great advantage. This would mean that you could travel 1
parsec in < 29 hours. Travelling 6 parsecs at Warp 10 would
take < 172 hours, so any ship equipped with any Jump engine
of less than Jn6 or travelling any distance short of 6 parsecs
would take longer to make a comparable transit. You would
have to have a Jump 6 ship, travelling 6 parsecs to get a
better travel time and because of the +/- 10% there is still a
good chance that the Warp 10 vessel will beat a Jump 6
vessel in travelling the same 6 parsecs. ITOTU, jump times
are 2d6 x 6 + 124 hours**, so there would be a 42% chance
that the Warp 10 ship would still arrive ahead of the Jump 6
ship over the same 6 parsec trip.
* 1000 cycles per second of 1 LS per cycle gives a pseudo
speed of 1000 times the speed of light. In Star Trek terms
Warp 10 (10 ^ 3 x c).
** FF&S2 p. 12.
> ... wormholing is how you'd have to travel between star systems, and
> that takes no time at all. Effectively, time spent in the wormhole is nil.
> Check out New Scientist April 1995 issue for the reason why if you
> want to (it's a cool edition as it also tells of the broken light barrier.
> We have already shipped information at 4.7 times lightspeed (albeit
> only through 12 cm of space, but still...)
You might want to go back and recheck that issue of _New
Scientist_. Worm holes are microscopic and will slam shut
immediately if matter is sent through them; therefore, worm
holes are not the solution to interstellar travel. At least they
aren't by themselves. In order to get a ship through a worm
hole, you would have to use some sort of a force field to
open the hole up to sufficient size to allow the passage of the
matter and prevent its closure. These would probably need
to be permanent installations, because once a worm hole
closes, it won't reopen.
Unless you are talking about Quantum Tunneling. In which
case, there is no possibility of FTL travel, even if FTL comm
IS allowed.
AFAIK, the best scientifically viable method of FTL travel is
Alcubierre's "Warp Drive," with the modifications suggested by
[can't remember scientist's name] which requires the use of
negative matter*. Another possibility that the scientists are
actually looking into is a drive system using the natural
properties of negative energy*. So far, our science has not
been able to say absolutely whether either of these exist.
However, they are both theoretically possible.
* These two may be reversed.
> Another way of thinking about it is that for some weird reason time
> doesn't really stop inside the wormhole, perhaps this is a deliberate
> thing done by the ship so as not to kill the people in it? Maybe if time
> freezes when you start it up again your heart stays stopped or
> something. Works for me either way.
According to Einsteinian physics, time is consistent with the
external universe on both sides of a worm hole. Just the
distance between the two sides of the worm hole is non-
existent. It's not that time stops, just that it takes no more
time to make a passage from one side to the other that it
does to pass through a point (or plane) in space.
Worm holes were the basis of my recent posts on Jump
Gates. I didn't go into any detail of my thoughts on the how
of Jump Gates, because no one asked for it.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:04:42 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
You're in luck, I was feeling helpful:
http://www.releasingthefire.com/thuddd/STAR50.txt
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.2
GIT dpu s+:+>++: a >- C++$ U? P+ L? E? W+++ N o? K? w(+) O? V? PS+(+++)
PE++ Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X(+) R+++ tv+ b++ DI++++ D G e~++ h r y+(-)
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Bolie Williams IV
To:
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
> At 8:45 AM -0600 1/31/2000, Eric Henry wrote:
> >Hi. Several people asked about the excel spreadsheet i made re stars
within
> >50 light years of Earth.
> >The spreadsheet is now available in a zip file from
> >http://www.crosswinds.net/~ehenry/dskies.htm
> >
> >Here's a recap of the file and the data therein. The download is a zip
file
> >which you must unzip. It contains a Microsoft Excel 97 spreadsheet.
BTW, I
> >use Dr. Solomon antivirus version 8.01.
>
> Someone ought to convert it to a tab delimited text file for folks who
> don't use Microsoft Excel 97...
>
> Bolie IV
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Bolie Williams IV
> bolie@io.com
> http://www.io.com/~bolie/
>
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:05:49 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Re CGen and Aging
From: William F. Hostman
> Eris wrote:
> >Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a little noticed rule in there
> >about the maximum number of terms a character can take before starting
> >play. I know it's in one of the rulesets, maybe the T5 draft, but I know
I
> >saw a limit of something like 6 terms.
> CT had a 7 term limit,which may be exceeded only with manditory
> reenlistment. MT does not explicitly have a seven term limit.
>
> IIRC, TNE doesn't, but I'm Not Sure.
T4 has it as well. B1 p.22, says, "Service beyond the
seventh term is normally impossible, and retirement is
mandatory for an individual who has competed a seventh
term of service. However, even persons completing a
seventh term must serve another if they roll mandatory re-
enlistment. Given the possibility of mandatory re-enlistment,
it is theoretically possible for an individual to be required to
serve a ninth term, or even a tenth term, and beyond."
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.2
GIT dpu s+:+>++: a >- C++$ U? P+ L? E? W+++ N o? K? w(+) O? V? PS+(+++)
PE++ Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X(+) R+++ tv+ b++ DI++++ D G e~++ h r y+(-)
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1848
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, February 1 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1849
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
FTL - cutting edge early TL9
"Corruption" that isn't (was: Re: Corruption (was Re: Request))
Re: A new look at gravitics
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Sad news...
Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Re Elder Worms
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Re: Frigate crew questions
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Aging and TL
Re: Imperial Murder Rate
Re Guns
Re Serial Killers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:06:24 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: FTL - cutting edge early TL9
For those of you who are interested in such things, here are
some web sites that deal with what might be *the* FTL
system of choice.
If you are willing to wade through the noise, there are some
interesting tidbits and some good links.
http://www.inetarena.com/~noetic/pls/bppnews.html
Analog articles online.
http://mist.npl.washington.edu/av/altvw86.html
http://mist.npl.washington.edu/av/
Some very good links.
http://allison.clark.net/pub/nyrath/smap11.html
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
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__________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:02:13 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: "Corruption" that isn't (was: Re: Corruption (was Re: Request))
From: Jeff Zeitlin
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:54:25 -0500 (EST), shadow@krypton.rain.com
> (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
> >But getting back to more "traditional" forms of "corruption", try
> >things like these.
>
> >Next time the PCs land on a planet with a "xxx Bureaucracy" type
> >government (or any of several other types) with a *high* law level,
> >and they have to deal with some clerk, have a list of the *official*
> >fee schedule for "bribes" of various sorts posted on the wall!
However, in a case such as you suggest, where the fees are
posted, they are no longer bribes. They are simple
administrative costs for doing business in such a system.
There can be no penalty for offering them, they are expected.
In fact, such a system could charge it's "employees" for the
privilege of working at their particular post. Much like many
upscale restaurants charge members of the wait staff for the
positions. The company pays the waiter nothing and take a
percentage of the tips the waiter earns.
Carried to it's logical conclusion, you might eventually arrive
at a system where there are no indirect taxes. All monies
collected by the government will be from the fees charged for
the services rendered. If there are multiple clerks doing the
same job, you might notice that some lines are longer than
others. If the standees are primarily locals, the longest line
will be going to the best at doing the job needed. Naturally,
the PCs will get in the shortest line and get the worst service
for the same money. :-)
Or we could go a step further and have each bureaucrat
posting whatever fees they like, provided the income is
reported correctly and that might explain why they would not
accept a bribe under any circumstances. The would be
briber will not be faced with any sort of consequences, but
the "bribee" could face serious charges of malfeasance (or
would that be misfeasance?) and a "tax fraud" type of
charge.
> >You'll have fun drawing up the possible "special services" fees and
> >shock a few players. Especially when they find out that the fees are
> >fixed. No paying more and you get laughed at for trying to pay less.
> >In fact *trying* to pay more may get you in trouble.
Exactly, that would be a bribe, which would be illegal to offer
and illegal to receive.
PS: Eris, in deference to the poor beleaguered players in
your campaign, please stop reading here. Just move along,
there's nothing more to read. Really Eris, stop reading.
______________________________________________
Oh, oh, I just had a very wicked idea, if they offer more, the
scenario might go something like this:
[The PC has just offered a bribe to a Junior Bureaucrat (JB)]
JB: Let me see if I have you right, you are offering me
more to get service ahead of those who were in front of
you in line.
PC: Yes, I'm offering you an extra 100 credits on top of
your normal 250 credits for preferential service.
JB: [picks up comm] Get Senior Bureaucrat [insert name],
I need a witness.
PC: Something wrong?
JB: No, nothing is wrong, just wait a minute, s/he is usually
quite prompt in these matters, just hang on.
[The Senior Bureaucrat (SB) shows up almost immediately.]
SB: Okay, Junior, what's up?
JB: Mr. PC would you care to repeat what you offered
earlier in the presence of a witness?
PC: I don't understand what you are talking about.
JB: You know, you offered to pay me the usual 250 credits
plus a "bonus" of 100 credits for quicker service, I want
you to repeat what you said in front of my witness.
PC: I still don't know what you are talking about.
JB: Okay, let me play it back for you. Computer play back
Mr. PC's comments just before the last time index I
entered.
Disembodied voice of PC, "Yes, I'm offering you an extra
100 credits on top of your normal 250 credits for
preferential service."
SB: Well Mr. PC, did you or didn't you make the offer?
Before you answer that, let me warn you that there are
serious consequences if you answer it incorrectly. We
only want the truth.
If the PC acknowledges the attempted bribe, s/he will be
given the preferential treatment s/he's paying for. If not, the
PC will be charged with breach of contract and attempting to
induce a public official to commit malfeasance. The
computer record will be sufficient evidence to convict the PC
of the crimes s/he is charged with.
In case you are wondering why JB called in a witness, it is so
that JB's "6" is covered. After all, computer records can be
modified, and live witness service is only 10%. Besides, as
sure as JB hadn't called for a live witness, there would have
been someone monitoring his conversation and it's better to
be safe than sorry.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
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__________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 12:16:59 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: A new look at gravitics
Jason T. Barnabas wrote:
>
> From: Giuseppe
> > You did notice I said they come to pieces after 1 light second of distance
> > yes? And once you have sent them off there's no way to stop them. It's a
> > fire and forget thing. In my TU you CAN hop in and out of jumpspace, but
> > only at that one prescribed frequency I mentioned of some 1000 cycles per
> > second and only for a maximum travel distance of 1 light second. Hardly
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > worth it for anything other than missiles.
>
> Hardly worth it? To be able to travel at Warp 10* would be a
> great advantage. This would mean that you could travel 1
> parsec in < 29 hours.
Reread his post...it's only useful for a TOTAL distance of 1 light
second, approximately 9.73 x 10 ^-9 parsec. Like he said, very carefully
handwaved for making missiles useful only.
Did I say handwaved? NO, this is a veritable Hiver freakin' ballet of a
handwave!
But a cool application of a stutterwarp type drive.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:30:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Eric Henry writes:
> Here's an update.
>
> First, I've expanded the data set to include stars out to 150 light years.
> However, i will point out that parallax measurements become less reliable
> beyond about 20 parsecs, or 60+ light years. Indeed some stars might be
> missed altogether but those would most likely be M class and later K class
> no, not the car ) stars. And just to clarify, all of the coordinates are
> listed in light years.
Hm...interesting. Are you aware that the galactic coordinates in this file
are horribly mangled and totally wrong? Discovered it on feeding the data
to a program I have which computes jump paths, discovered its idea of
positions was rather off.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:27:55 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
From: Leonard Erickson
> Any reason you can't export it to some more universal format? SYLK? DIF?
> That'd make it accessible to folks who don't see a need for the fancier
> versions of the spreadsheets.
>
> For that matter CSV (or the older "quote & comma delimited") would
> likely work unless you have a bunch of formulas in the spreadsheet. And
> that'd allow importing into dBase or Paradox.
You are in luck, I was again feeling helpful and have made
it available at:
http://www.releasingthefire.com/thuddd/star50.zip
and at:
http://thuddd.homepage.com/star50.zip
This 66.1 kB (67,714 bytes) file contains STAR50.txt (tab
delimited) and STAR50.csv so you have your choice.
Sorry about misreporting the location earlier.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
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- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.2
GIT dpu s+:+>++: a >- C++$ U? P+ L? E? W+++ N o? K? w(+) O? V? PS+(+++)
PE++ Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X(+) R+++ tv+ b++ DI++++ D G e~++ h r y+(-)
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__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 12:39:13 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Sad news...
Just read this on Slashdot, of all places, and I hadn't seen it
mentioned here yet...
A.E.Van Vogt died last Wednesday. Another Grand Old Master is gone...
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:35:57 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Cuba! Conspiracies!! Solomani loons!!!
At 05:52 01.02.00 , you wrote:
>At 05:45 PM 1/30/00 EST, you wrote:
> >Here goes the "US vs the rest of the English speaking world"
>flamewar
> >again....
>
> Hey, why limit it to the English speaking world?
Genau! ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:00:12 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
your customer service skills are lacking. For example, how are they wrong?
New star data is being published as epoch 2000.0. The following equations
convert equatorial coordinates to galactic.
Xg = -(0.0550*X) -(0.8734*Y) - (0.4839*Z)
Yg = (0.4940*X) - (0.4449*Y) + (0.7470*Z)
Zg = -(0.8677*X) - (0.1979*Y) + (0.4560*Z)
These equations are based on the following co-ordinates:
Galactic center: RA = 17h45.6m; Dec = -28o56.3'
Galactic north pole: RA = 12h51.4m; Dec = -27o07.7'
These equations are courtesy of William Sandberg. For those who are
interested in the mathematical derivation of the equations, go here.
http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/smap04a.html
- -----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Jackson
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
>Eric Henry writes:
>> Here's an update.
>>
>> First, I've expanded the data set to include stars out to 150 light
years.
>> However, i will point out that parallax measurements become less reliable
>> beyond about 20 parsecs, or 60+ light years. Indeed some stars might be
>> missed altogether but those would most likely be M class and later K
class
>> no, not the car ) stars. And just to clarify, all of the coordinates
are
>> listed in light years.
>
>Hm...interesting. Are you aware that the galactic coordinates in this file
>are horribly mangled and totally wrong? Discovered it on feeding the data
>to a program I have which computes jump paths, discovered its idea of
>positions was rather off.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:08:36 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Elder Worms
>Did anyone see a few weeks ago where Dr. Cynthia Kenyon was discussing her
>latest research on the subject of aging? Cynthia's one of my bosses here.
>We've got some worms that are living MUCH longer than they are supposed
>to. Anagathics might not be that far away, folks.
>
>Kiri=)
>
Uh, if that was the one hosted by Alan Alda, aren't those worms being
either surgically &/or genetically modified? It's not much good to live
twice as long if you can't breed.
Now, I realize, it may be possible to create uptake inhibitors for the
chemicals involved, but based upon the show, that's still a LONG way off.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:20:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Eric Henry writes:
> your customer service skills are lacking. For example, how are they wrong?
For a sample case (remarks field trimmed; this happened to be the first I
noticed being wrong, it is not otherwise special)
X,Y,Z,SYSTEM,distance,SPECTRA,Xg,Yg,Zg,distance,
7.54,3.53,-2.69,UV Ceti,8.73,M6.0Ve,-2.20,0.14,-4.60,5.10,
As an obvious problem, 8.73 != 5.10. 5.10 is also consistent with the Xg,Yg,
and Zg stats, and is definately wrong.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 12:26:07 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Frigate crew questions
Andy Akins wrote:
> Well, I reworked my crew for my Frigate.
>
> I thought about it, and I decided that I needed to approach it from a different
> angle - did I have enough crew to deal with each of the watches.
I thought about that very thing this morning. :) It's a tough
problem - do you stagger the more experienced or higher ranking
officers across the watches, or concentrate them so the "prime
crew" gets maximum work-together time?
(Note that higher ranking and more experienced aren't the same
thing - senior NCOs will know more than green ensigns and LtJGs,
even though they can't say so :)
At the very least, assume that they adjust the watches so that
the first watch "prime crew" is on during jump entry, jump exit,
takeoffs, and landings. Obviously in a combat situation, everyone
wakes up and duties are handed off to the prime crew as soon as
they can.
There are pros and cons to (work, rest, sleep) versus (work, sleep,
rest) watch orderings, and it might even be better to leave it
as (work, off shift, off shift) and let the individuals decide
when to sleep.
During jump, the shifts might get played with a lot, and people
moved around to make sure everyone knows how to work with everyone
else. Lots of drills, lots of strip-down maintenance, since you're
pretty much guaranteed to be safe during that time -- but on the
other hand, you damn well better not take apart anything you can't
put back together. Don't start a big maintenance job 140 hours into
jump. :)
> Here's the officer/nco/ratings breakdown:
>
> Officers (x14):
> Captain (Captain)
> Executive Officer (Cmmdr)
> Tactical Officer (Lt. Cmmdr)
> Helmsman (Lt)
> Navigator (Ensign)
> Operations (Ensign)
> Chief Medical Officer (Lt. Cmmdr)
> Chief Engineer (Lt. Cmmdr)
> Power Supervisor (Lt)
> Jump Drive Supervisor (Ensign)
> 4 x Fighter Pilots (Varies)
On smaller ships, the skipper might not be a ranked captain. IMTU,
a 5Kton ship would probably get a Commander in charge; so I'd push
all the above listed crew except the ensigns down one rank (you
skipped 2nd Lt/LtJG, so there's "room" to move them).
Again IMTU, a 1-3Kton ship would be commanded by a Lt Cmdr, and a
sub-Kton craft (SDB, courier, or what have you) might be commanded
by a Lieutenant. For this reason, IMTU, "Skipper" and not "Captain"
(nor "Commander") is used to describe the ship command position -
even when the Skipper is a Captain.
Ships smaller than your frigate, also, might have the skipper
actually serve as pilot for one watch.
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 15:33:45 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:16:59 -0500 (EST), Ingo Heinscher
wrote:
>At 14:52 30.01.00 -0500, you wrote:
>(snip -various ideas on an explanation for 2D))
>>In the end, Hoppe's idea is functionally the same as the "Crumpled Table
>>Cloth" theory, while my variation might be the "Many Crumpled Table Cloths"
>>theory -- in which the multiple, layered table cloths touch each other in
>>certain places (giant and supergiant star systems).
>Could you elaborate on the advantages of the "multiple crumpled table cloth
>theory" over the "single" variant?
The short form is that you get a lot more explorable 'frontier'
without necessarily violating the canonical material. Part of
that is that you can potentially move parties from canonical
material to your non-canonical areas (in adjacent jump planes)
and back in reasonable time, and with continuity.
It also explains why the Imperium isn't trying to expand along
any of the obvious frontiers and coming into conflict with their
neighbors more often - the neighbors haven't worked out the
multi-plane theory of jump, and don't realize that the Imperium
is about to come at them from above and below!
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:14:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
In mail you write:
> Robert Eaglestone writes:
>>Peez saith:
>> Could you elaborate on the reason(s) that we might be
>> aging more slowly at higher TL?
>>You know, that's a good question. I don't know!
>>Better nutrition as a child? :) Yeah, that's it.
>
>
> It seems reasonable that good nutrition in youth should
> extend your lifespan. Interestingly, there is evidence
> that reducing the caloric intake of rats increases their
> lifespan, but I don't know at what age the rats had
> their diet restricted.
Actually, there's some evidence for a "hard limit" on lifespan. If you
take the maximum known age for various mammalian species (not the
*average* age at death, but that of the oldest known member of the
species) and plot it versus the average heart rate, you get a nice
straight line.
It seems that mammals last for about a billion heartbeats. With one
exception. Humans. Seems that the oldest *confirmed* human lifespan
works out to about 4 billion heartbeats...
Make of this, what you will.
Still, it *does* look like there's a limit there. One that may take a
*lot* of work to get around. Because there's a difference between
preventing things like disease that kill you "early", and treating
accidents that cause un-intended damage. But at *some* point, the whole
*system* is going to give up.
So until *that* limit can be fixed (probably involving massive genetic
redesign), you'll be able to be healthy and active much later in life,
but you'd *still* die at the "limit" (around 120 years of age).
Sort of like the "one-horse shay". It ran just fine until the day
*everything* wore out at once.
One mechanism involved is likely the teleomere limit. The cells can
only divide so many times before they run out of teleomeres ("junk" DNA
at the end of the strands). You see, each time a cell copies the DNA,
it loses a bit from the ends of the strands. As long as the "junk" DNA
is there, this isn't a problem. But after a certain number of
divisions, you start losing DNA that actually *does* something. And
thus, things start breaking down.
Cloning won't help. Dolly has *old* DNA (ie it's got most of the
"padding" gone already). I don't recall hearing if she's shown signs of
early aging yet, but I *do* recall hearing that they'd confirmed that
the cloning process had *not* "regenerated" the "padding" (teleomeres).
So until that crucial breakthrough is made, you can avoid aging rolls
up to a point, but there'd still be a maximum age. Which sounds rather
playable to me. Just roll for a "max age" or better yet, set it as 120
and have some rolls that start at 100 such as "every year, roll a d20.
Add 100. If the result is greater than your current age, you live."
To put things a different way, we are currently not increasing
lifespan. We are eliminating causes of early death. That's *not* the
same thing. All we are doing is moving numbers from early columns of
the acturail tables to later ones. We aren't adding more columns.
Once *real* "anagathics" are invented, then we'll be extended the
table. And that could be shown by having the age at which you start
that d20 bit I suggested be moved farther out. And turn the rule into:
"At max_age-20, roll a d20. Add max_age. If result is less than or
equal to current age, character dies of old age"
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:38:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Aging and TL
In mail you write:
> Jim Lawrie writes:
>>A friend of mines a Biologist, he says that aging is a voluntary
>>choice*! When the little gene is isolated that makes your cells
>>start oxidising away and done away with aging mightn't be a
>>problem at all.
>> Stay 27 until you die.
>> Jim
>>*So maybe he's joking, this is traveller, think outside the box!
>
> It is possible that there is an "aging" gene in our genome
> somewhere, or possibly a bunch of them. The problem for us
> evolutionary biologists is: why would such a gene (or genes)
> be found at all, let alone be found in everyone? If the
> only effect of gene X is to make an organism age, that
> organism's competitors can be expected to produce more
> offspring and therefore the X gene should tend to disappear.
Not true. As long as the organism produces offspring that survive, it's
*advantageous* for the parent to die. That way they aren't using up
resources that the children could be using.
Survival until long enough after reproductive age that surviving
offspring are likely is "necessary". It's also *sufficient*.
Also, give the tendency of most "social" mammals to have a reproductive
hiearchy, it's *necessary* for the old members of the group to die
before the young members *can* reproduce.
Compare two groups, one with aging, one without. The first group may
produce more offspring, *of the first generation*. But it'll hit the
carrying capacity of the niche faster. and the younger members will
have considerably fewer mating choices or opportunities.
The second group will have more openings as older members die, and more
reproductive opportunities for the younger members.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:48:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Imperial Murder Rate
In mail you write:
> ObTrav: A society can have one or more "wrong" things be legal, and still
> have a very high law level. The once-over by the IISS might not see this,
> though - the place might be a police state, the Scout doing the survey
> might just see the armed populace shooting each other with some
> frequency and call it law level 0. It so happens that 80% of the population
> is Military, Police, or "Noble Citizen" status, and they have an unusual
> code duello.
The later Lensman books have great descriptions of how Boskone (the
"bad guys" culture) operates. Boskone is actually a fairly high law
level society. It's just that the "laws" are *different*.
You can advance by assassinating your superior. As long as you don't
get caught *trying* to assassinate him. Basicly, "Might makes Right"
taken to the ultimate.
On the *surface*, it's much like a typical dictatorship. But unlike
them, it doesn't try to pretend to be anything other than a society
based on *power*. And on fear of those above you.
Everyday business works because you pay "protection" (taxes!) to the
boss of your area, and he keeps anyone lower ranked from bothering you.
Of course *he* pays protection to someone above him. And everybody
realizes that it's bad for business to just wander around killing folks
or taking things from them. You only do that enough to remind them to
pay their protection money, and to remind them what happens if they
*don't*. Or if they are "disrespectful".
I don't think such a culture is compatible with any of the Traveller
"empires". But it might make for an interesting planet (or even small
multi-planet polity) on the fringes of the Imperium.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:44:58 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Guns
>William F. Hostman wrote:
>>
>> ><< Mostmid-caliber rounds (7-10mm) had
>> > one-shot stops around 60-65%; One-shot kills somewhat less. [I only
>> > memorized a few statistics. Sorry.] >>
>> >
>> >What was the .38 special and the .38 special +P?
>>
>> IIRc, About 62% OSS, and about 50% OSK, With about 2/3rds of the kills also
>> being stops.
>
>If 2/3 of the kills were also stops, doesn't this mean that 1/3 of
>those killed kept on coming? :)
>
Precicely. In short, the wound turned out to be fatal, but was insufficient
to prevent them from continuing to advance... and in more than a few cases,
disarm the firing individual.
The same study also found that police officers hit with fewer than 1 in 6
(It was 1 in 10, IIRC) rounds in the field, and criminals hit with fewer
than 1 in 12. Swat teams typically hit about 1 in 3 shots, from a different
study (but it was close on the general police accuracy stats, and didn't do
criminals).
The study, for purposes of the OSS/OSK threw out any examples where more
than one round hit the person, the person hit was hit through body armor,
or the individual was found to have been on PCP, cocaine, or
methamphetamine. For purposes of accuracy, tho, those were not thrown out.
Also, it found that most (IIRC 60%) police-involved shootings initiate
between 5 and 20 FEET of range.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:20:45 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Serial Killers
>Frank G. Pitt wrote:
>
>>> >Serial killers are weird
>>> That's an understatement. :)
>>
>>Actually, that's also one of the myths.
>>The 'best' serial killers, the ones that don't get caught, are remarkably
>>_normal_.
Double check your research. All the known serial killers have abnormal
childhoods. THey may appear normal, but all the known and psychologically
evaluated ones are clearly NOT normal. Especially since most, when
interviewed, if asked will admit that they will kill again if released.
Ed Gein is the best example: he dressed out and skinned many Pretty Young
Things. He'd not been caught cause he was obsessive about his schedule and
behaviours, but didn't appear so. So, the one day he missed his weekly trip
to the general store, the cops came knocking.... and found several PYT's
sans skin hung to age in his abbatoir on his farm. He has several problems,
psychologically: Obscessive behaviors, anger displacement, and a pattern of
childhood abuse and neglect. Otherwise, a charming old gent.
Ob Trav: if there is really good psych evaluation, they'll be caught before
they do anything... The sample will be large enough to find the warning
signs, if in fact there are any. However, I don't think most imperial
worlds will be able AND willing (BOTH at the same time that is) to do that
kind of prevention.
The Zhodani, on the other hand, Can, Will, and Do perform those kind of
screenings, and have an effective treatment.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1849
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, February 1 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1850
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Re: Re Guns
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1821
Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Re: Serial Killers
Re: Sad news...
Re Elder Worms
Re: Re Serial Killers
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Aging and TL
re: Serial Killers
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: "Corruption" that isn't (was: Re: Corruption (was Re: Request))
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
Re: Environment Question
Re: "Corruption" that isn't (was: Re: Corruption (was Re: Request))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:53:04 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Aack. i sincerely apologize for the waste of bandwith. I have corrected
the spreadsheet as well as the text file and they are now available at
http://www.crosswinds.net/~ehenry/dskies.htm
There are still some discrepancies of .01 to .05 light years in some cases
but i don't know why that is.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Jackson
>For a sample case (remarks field trimmed; this happened to be the first I
>noticed being wrong, it is not otherwise special)
>X,Y,Z,SYSTEM,distance,SPECTRA,Xg,Yg,Zg,distance,
>7.54,3.53,-2.69,UV Ceti,8.73,M6.0Ve,-2.20,0.14,-4.60,5.10,
>
>As an obvious problem, 8.73 != 5.10. 5.10 is also consistent with the
Xg,Yg,
>and Zg stats, and is definately wrong.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:04:54 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: Re Guns
My Police Chief would verify that. Disclaimer, i'm not an officer we just
work for the same city.
He told me that an officer on the range will hit his target every time. In
training scenarios with paint guns and in real life where stress is a
factor, more than half will miss from 15 feet. Anecdotally, three officers
were in a shootout where the officers expended 23 rounds, only three of
which hit.
The Chief is currently working with Col Grossman on a study for Psychology
Today regarding this issue.
The Chief also has a website which may be of interest http://www.riteone.com
- -----Original Message-----
Subject: Re Guns
>>William F. Hostman wrote:
>>>
>>> ><< Mostmid-caliber rounds (7-10mm) had
>>> > one-shot stops around 60-65%; One-shot kills somewhat less. [I only
>>> > memorized a few statistics. Sorry.] >>
>>> >
>>> >What was the .38 special and the .38 special +P?
>>>
>>> IIRc, About 62% OSS, and about 50% OSK, With about 2/3rds of the kills
also
>>> being stops.
>>
>>If 2/3 of the kills were also stops, doesn't this mean that 1/3 of
>>those killed kept on coming? :)
>>
>Precicely. In short, the wound turned out to be fatal, but was insufficient
>to prevent them from continuing to advance... and in more than a few cases,
>disarm the firing individual.
>
>The same study also found that police officers hit with fewer than 1 in 6
>(It was 1 in 10, IIRC) rounds in the field, and criminals hit with fewer
>than 1 in 12. Swat teams typically hit about 1 in 3 shots, from a different
>study (but it was close on the general police accuracy stats, and didn't do
>criminals).
>
>The study, for purposes of the OSS/OSK threw out any examples where more
>than one round hit the person, the person hit was hit through body armor,
>or the individual was found to have been on PCP, cocaine, or
>methamphetamine. For purposes of accuracy, tho, those were not thrown out.
>
>Also, it found that most (IIRC 60%) police-involved shootings initiate
>between 5 and 20 FEET of range.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:12:33 EST
From: HaloqJakar@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1821
dear sirs I accidentally deleted the above # 1821 if possible couls
I receive a duplicate copy?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 15:16:44 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
I have a perl script that generates PostScript subsector
maps from sector files. Recently, I've discovered the
magic of color in PostScript files. SO I'm adding some
color to my subsector maps.
I've got amber arcs for the amber zone, and red circles
for interdicted zones. What else shall I do?
Can anyone think of a useful way to encode trade
classifications; for instance, denoting a world as
being Rich or Industrial or Agricultural?
Agricultural is easy - color the world green (it has to
have water on it anyhow). But Rich is more difficult...
gold? And Industrial is even more difficult.
Anyone have suggestions of any kind for subsector maps?
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:31:56 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
"they not speak german" "I no understand".
Your conjugation might not be the best but I understood it loud and clear.
:)
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Vaillancourt"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
> At 07:42 PM 1/31/00 -0600, you wrote:
> > ,
> >Perdon, no entiendo. ;-)
> >
> >(That's the best I could do after two weeks of Spanish. Russian and
> >Arabic wouldn't send too well!)
> >--
> >AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
>
> On ni gavaritia germanski-yzik. Ja ni ponemaietia.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:22:35 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
From: Frank G. Pitt
> There are quite a few non-marginal female serial killers out there.
Statistically, not really all that many. I would quote from the introduction
of "Hunting Humans", but unfortunately it seems to be on permanent loan to
my brother's collection.
> Couples are quite common,
Not really.
>as they are much more effective working as a team,
I didn't know that efficiency figured in here. Oh wait, this is a Traveller
list isn't it? :)
> and a killer then doesn't have to hide their hobby from their spouse.
> Often one spouse is the driving force.
It depends on what you mean by often.
> There are the "obsessives" who find out and collect all sorts of
> things to do with their victim (clothing, photos, rubbish, etc) before
> killing them.
There are, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that such behavior is
prevalent among serial killers.
> > >Serial killers are weird
> > That's an understatement. :)
>
> Actually, that's also one of the myths.
Well, no. In this case, I assumed (hopefully correctly) that Kiri was
indicating that serial killers deviate from the norm in some significant
way. The fact that serial killers engage in a form of repeated, ritualized
murder means that they deviate significantly from the norm.
> The 'best' serial killers, the ones that don't get caught, are
> remarkably _normal_.
There is little or no data on the ones who don't get caught. I recall
reading a story in which a U.S. Secret Service fellow was asked who the best
counterfeiter of all time was, he quipped something like "The one we haven't
caught."
The serial killers who haven't been caught provide no useful data one way or
the other.
> Most people don't realize just how similar to "normal" people most
> serial killers are, and how easy it is for a so-called "normal" person
> to get hooked on it.
There are some problems with such a theory. First among these problems is
that serial killers make up a minute percentage of the population. Second
among them is that serial killers make up a minute percentage of the
population of murderers...
> Once they find out how easy it is to do, and how great the
> rush is, they get hooked. Nothing weird about it, we're all wired to
> enjoy the adrenaline rush and sense of power a killing gives.
>
> May people like to deny such feelings, but research has shown that
> even the most moral, god-fearing, loving, mild-mannered, little old
> lady will get excited when they think they have killed someone, even
> if externally they are full of remorse and contrition.
Um... What research? It sounds like it would be extremely difficult to do
such research.
> When a serial killer is uncovered, all involvd go out of their way to
> emphasize any "weird" aspects in the killer's life to try and distance
> the killer from the human race.
Indeed, but there frequently are distinctly weird elements in the make up of
a serial killer. There is, of course, hindsight: the serial killer has
murdered a number of people in a ritualistic fashion, which was repeated
with minor variations. This tends to create a pretty vast gulf of distance
between your average "working Joe" and the serial killer. This is not an
artificial distance, but a very real one.
> For instance, if I was exposed as a serial killer, my roleplaying
> would be used to show how weird I was
Possibly, possibly not. I can think of a number of things about Jeffrey
Dahmer which nobody thought to report about, but would be considered
superficially "weird". Indeed, even media coverage in the U.S. concerning
serial killers tends to be of the "twisted mirror" type. That is to say,
such stories will tend to focus on how *normal* such people seemed. In your
country, things could be reported differently.
>and my enjoyment of mild B&D would also be exposed as "weird"
> even though somewhere over 70% of the western world enjoy some
> form of mild B&D.
That seems like an odd figure, one which is substantially higher than others
which I have seen.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:36:33 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Sad news...
Man that REALLY sucks.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Johnson"
To: "traveller mailing list"
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 2:39 PM
Subject: Sad news...
> Just read this on Slashdot, of all places, and I hadn't seen it
> mentioned here yet...
>
> A.E.Van Vogt died last Wednesday. Another Grand Old Master is gone...
>
> --
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:44:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead"
Subject: Re Elder Worms
"William F. Hostman" wrote:
>>Did anyone see a few weeks ago where Dr. Cynthia Kenyon was discussing her
>>latest research on the subject of aging? Cynthia's one of my bosses here.
>>We've got some worms that are living MUCH longer than they are supposed
>>to. Anagathics might not be that far away, folks.
>
>
>Uh, if that was the one hosted by Alan Alda, aren't those worms being
>either surgically &/or genetically modified? It's not much good to live
>twice as long if you can't breed.
On a species level perhaps, but on a personal level it sounds fine. In
fact, it sounds ideal. You offer treatment to folks, they end up sterile
but longer-lived. Seems like a great way of both lengthening lifespans
and cutting down on our population.
- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:58:19 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Re Serial Killers
From: William F. Hostman
> Ed Gein is the best example: he dressed out and skinned many
> Pretty Young Things. He'd not been caught cause he was obsessive
> about his schedule and behaviours, but didn't appear so. So, the
> one day he missed his weekly trip to the general store, the cops
> came knocking.... and found several PYT's sans skin hung to age in
> his abbatoir on his farm.
Well, no, this is completely incorrect. Ed Gein went to the general store
and purchased something (anti-freeze, I think). One of the storekeeper's
relatives stopped by the store later on that evening and found the
storekeeper gone. He contacted the police, they came and found Ed Gein's
receipt. They headed up to Gein's house and indeed found the storekeeper,
which was in a state of being cleaned like a deer. Needless to say, they
arrested him.
He stood accused of two murders (one of a tavern owner, and the
storekeeper). Both of the women he stood accused of murdering bore a
distinct resemblance to his mother. Although there had been a few
disappearances from towns nearby, no evidence was ever found to link Gein
with any of them. It is believed by many that Gein had also killed his
brother years before.
Still, it was determined by the police that most of Gein's "victims" had
actually been corpses which he had dug up and mutilated.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 15:07:35 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> It seems that mammals last for about a billion heartbeats. With one
> exception. Humans. Seems that the oldest *confirmed* human lifespan
> works out to about 4 billion heartbeats...
>
> Make of this, what you will.
One, we're not being hunted by the elephants, and two, we keep far
better records on humans than we do on mice.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:12:17 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Aging and TL
Leonard Erickson writes:
>> It is possible that there is an "aging" gene in our genome
>> somewhere, or possibly a bunch of them. The problem for us
>> evolutionary biologists is: why would such a gene (or genes)
>> be found at all, let alone be found in everyone? If the
>> only effect of gene X is to make an organism age, that
>> organism's competitors can be expected to produce more
>> offspring and therefore the X gene should tend to disappear.
>Not true. As long as the organism produces offspring that survive,
>it's *advantageous* for the parent to die. That way they aren't
>using up resources that the children could be using.
Nice try. Imagine a simple species that takes 3 years to
mature, then produces 3 offspring per year until death.
Half the members of this species have a gene that causes
them to die after 6 years (3 years of reproduction), while
the other half lives forever. These critters reproduce
asexually.
Beginning with 10 3-year-olds of each type, there is no
difference in reproduction for the first 3 years but the
10 "agers" now die. This leaves us with 40 reproductively
active "immortals" (30 3-year-olds and 10 6-year-olds),
and 60 immature immortals (30 1-year-olds and 30 2-year-
olds). There are 30 reproductively active agers (all
3-year-olds), and 60 immatures as above. Already the
immortals have displayed a superior reproductive rate,
and the advantage will increase.
Of course the situation is more complex, with mortality
from various sources at all ages, but not having to die
has some serious advantages. There are two things to
keep in mind: a mammal parent tries to give its offspring
the best chance of survival because it is carrying half
that parents genes, but the parent itself is carrying all
of its own genes, therefore the parent is better off
insuring its own survival than that of its offspring.
Plus, a gene in a species is not normally competing
against genes in other species, but is rather competing
with other genes in its own species. Thus, any gene that
confers an advantage in reproductive rate relative to
others within that species is likely to spread and
eventually "take over" the species.
>Survival until long enough after reproductive age that surviving
>offspring are likely is "necessary". It's also *sufficient*.
"Sufficient" is irrelevant. Whatever gene gives the
highest reproductive rate will tend to take over.
>Also, give the tendency of most "social" mammals to have a
>reproductive hiearchy, it's *necessary* for the old members of
>the group to die before the young members *can* reproduce.
Necessary for who? Certainly not for the aging members.
It seems that one can get a higher reproductive rate by
reproducing as much and as early as possible, at the cost
of long life (I do not know this, but it is reasonable),
than one can with a lower rate and a long life. Of
course, the balence is different in various species.
>Compare two groups, one with aging, one without. The first group
>may produce more offspring, *of the first generation*. But it'll
>hit the carrying capacity of the niche faster. and the younger
>members will have considerably fewer mating choices or
>opportunities.
This is a "red herring" (where does that expression come
from?). Both the agers and the immortals in the
population will be facing the same problem, as they are
trying to compete with each other. In any event, the
immortal elders do not have to worry about the younger
members, for the reasons outlined above (relatedness),
and because they are effectively younger members
themselves.
>The second group will have more openings as older members die,
>and more reproductive opportunities for the younger members.
No, they will not. A gene for aging must compete with
alternate genes in the same species, or it will never
increase by evolution. The agers will be faced with
the same crowding as the immortals are facing. I
suggest reading up on "group selection" and why we
believe that it doesn't work under most circumstances.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:15:07 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Serial Killers
William F. Hostman wrote:
>The Zhodani, on the other hand, Can, Will, and Do perform those kind of
>screenings, and have an effective treatment.
Scary thought: What if the "treatment" involves just tweaking them and
putting them to work as foriegn intelligence operatives, assassins and
semi-disposable soldiers?
This assumes there are brains the Zho's can't fix completely, and that
they want to give even the broken-brained a place in society. Even the
government of a Utopia must sometimes commit unspeakable acts,
if they are surrounded by less Utopian societies.
I recall a book..._Murder and Magic_? About a somewhat Holmsian
detective in a world where magic worked. A character's servant was
a complete psychopath - to the magic-oriented psychologists of this
world, some demonic creature had intervened at the time of his
birth and prevented a soul from entering the man's body. There was
no known way to give such a man a concience, as such a thing was
a feature of creatures with souls. Instead of euthanizing or permanently
imprisoning him, they placed him under a strong Geas to obey a certain
person in all things, presumably a person of good concience - this "master"
would make all the moral decisions for the man who had this disability.
There was a scene where the "master", in extremis, ordered his quiet,
respectable servant to kill some villains of the piece...which he did
as calmly as you or I would sip iced tea, though he was mortally wounded
in the process. More like an automaton than a man, and somewhat more
chilling an idea than the bad guys themselves.
Imagine the quiet, respectable receptionist at the Zhodani Embassy...he
spent
his teen years under direct supervison of the Guardians of Our Morality,
until
they sadly declared him "incurable". He's never done anything wrong, he just
has a certain mindset, a defect or difference that makes him, in certain
ways,
the most dangerous Prole on any given planet.
The Tvar'Chdle then handed him over to Inspector Jhianzhant's Special
Operations Directive, who saw him, not as a broken shard, but as the
beginnings of a fine dagger...
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:27:25 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
Leonard Erickson writes:
>One mechanism involved is likely the teleomere limit. The cells
>can only divide so many times before they run out of teleomeres
>("junk" DNA at the end of the strands). You see, each time a
>cell copies the DNA, it loses a bit from the ends of the strands.
I have never heard of cells loosing "junk" DNA during
mitosis. Could you tell me where you saw this?
>To put things a different way, we are currently not increasing
>lifespan. We are eliminating causes of early death. That's *not*
>the same thing. All we are doing is moving numbers from early
>columns of the acturail tables to later ones. We aren't adding
>more columns.
Well put. We are especially moving numbers from the very
first columns, which has a great effect on the average
lifespan.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:48:45 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: "Corruption" that isn't (was: Re: Corruption (was Re: Request))
>From: Jeff Zeitlin
>However, in a case such as you suggest, where the fees are
>posted, they are no longer bribes. They are simple
>administrative costs for doing business in such a system.
Late Roman Empire standardized the bribes charged by various officials for
various services. I don't know what word they used to describe it (I don't
speak Latin) but in all the reference works I've seen it's translated
"bribe" not "administrative fee".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:55:17 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:32:41 -0500 (EST), Volker Greimann
wrote:
>Hallo erstmal,
>die dt. Fraktion an TML Mitgliedern ist schon klein genug, und als ich deinen
>Namen las, mußte ich natürlich gleich schreiben...
>Wie lange bist du schon dabei (Traveller), was (System/Millieu) bevorzugst
>du, und wo wohnst du?
>Ich (ca. 12J.,MT/GT, Trier), heiße Volker Greimann, und dachte, man könnte
>ja evtl. von Kontakten profitieren (Austausch von Erfahrung und Kopien, etc)
>Also, melde dich mal,
>Volker
Babble-fish translated this as...
>First times, which is dt. parliamentary group at TML members
>already small enough, and as I read your name, I had to write
>hello naturally directly...
>How long are you already thereby (traveller), which
>(System/Millieu) you prefer, and where you live? I (approx. 12J.,
>mt/gt, Trier), am called Volker Greimann, and thought, one could
>profit possibly from contacts (exchange of experience and copies,
>etc.)
>thus, announces you times,
>to Volker
Intertran seems to be honked; I couldn't get a response from it
with either IE or NS - "Document Contains No Data" - but when it
works, it usually gives something marginally more coherent.
Remember, though, we're below the Bottom of the Beyond - deep in
the Slow Zone, in fact - and automatic translation of natural
languages is pretty much a middle-Beyond or higher phenomenon.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:52:15 EST
From: KenRoney@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Hi Rob,
Way back when "The Spinward Marches" first came out I color coded the trade
classifications by using colored bands inside the hex borders. Black for
industrial, green for agricultural, orange for poor, and so on. It made it
easy to see at a distance what the world trade category was.
The downside of this system was that it was probably made the map TOO
colorful. It was after all color on a white background. Once the maps came
out that used a black background I tended to switch over to them as the
prefered starchart for player use.
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:05:48 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:15:14 -0500 (EST), shadow@krypton.rain.com
(Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>In mail you write:
>> I also bought a pair of round six-siders and like you I use the backgammon
>> dice for shock value while rolling hits. :) I also picked up some of those
>> D&D dice that roll passages, deathtraps, etc. You should see people's faces
>> when you roll a die and it comes up with a skull with a large bolt through
>> it..:)
>I've never seen those. But way back when I bought a package of
>"Traveller dice". A dozen *smooth* black dice with painted on *red*
>pips. The 1 was an Imperial sunburst that covered most of the side.
>I used them to roll damage in my D&D games and the players called them
>the "Death Dice" because of the red on black color scheme.
I have a friend in Colorado who has a set of "2D6 of damage".
The suckers are solid brass, with the pips drilled into the
faces, very nice looking dice - that are about two inches on an
edge, and weigh about ninety pounds (avoirdupois, or however you
spell it) each. If someone ever threw them _at_ you, you'd
definitely take 2D6 of damage - hence the name. :)
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:09:15 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Environment Question
On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:15:14 -0500 (EST), "Robert O'Connor"
wrote:
>What the heck is 'Tri-Ox compound', anyway?
It's a bit of technobabble handwaving that allowed DeForrest
Kelley to solve a problem in the script by poking another actor -
usually William Shatner - in the arm with a salt shaker...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:59:45 -0500
From: "Garry Ward"
Subject: Re: "Corruption" that isn't (was: Re: Corruption (was Re: Request))
This certainly sounds like a Ferengi world. Quark would be right at home.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jason T. Barnabas
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 2:21 PM
Subject: "Corruption" that isn't (was: Re: Corruption (was Re: Request))
>From: Jeff Zeitlin
>> On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:54:25 -0500 (EST), shadow@krypton.rain.com
>> (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>
>> >But getting back to more "traditional" forms of "corruption", try
>> >things like these.
>>
>> >Next time the PCs land on a planet with a "xxx Bureaucracy" type
>> >government (or any of several other types) with a *high* law level,
>> >and they have to deal with some clerk, have a list of the *official*
>> >fee schedule for "bribes" of various sorts posted on the wall!
>
>However, in a case such as you suggest, where the fees are
>posted, they are no longer bribes. They are simple
>administrative costs for doing business in such a system.
>There can be no penalty for offering them, they are expected.
>In fact, such a system could charge it's "employees" for the
>privilege of working at their particular post. Much like many
>upscale restaurants charge members of the wait staff for the
>positions. The company pays the waiter nothing and take a
>percentage of the tips the waiter earns.
>
>Carried to it's logical conclusion, you might eventually arrive
>at a system where there are no indirect taxes. All monies
>collected by the government will be from the fees charged for
>the services rendered. If there are multiple clerks doing the
>same job, you might notice that some lines are longer than
>others. If the standees are primarily locals, the longest line
>will be going to the best at doing the job needed. Naturally,
>the PCs will get in the shortest line and get the worst service
>for the same money. :-)
>
>Or we could go a step further and have each bureaucrat
>posting whatever fees they like, provided the income is
>reported correctly and that might explain why they would not
>accept a bribe under any circumstances. The would be
>briber will not be faced with any sort of consequences, but
>the "bribee" could face serious charges of malfeasance (or
>would that be misfeasance?) and a "tax fraud" type of
>charge.
>
>> >You'll have fun drawing up the possible "special services" fees and
>> >shock a few players. Especially when they find out that the fees are
>> >fixed. No paying more and you get laughed at for trying to pay less.
>> >In fact *trying* to pay more may get you in trouble.
>
>Exactly, that would be a bribe, which would be illegal to offer
>and illegal to receive.
>
>PS: Eris, in deference to the poor beleaguered players in
>your campaign, please stop reading here. Just move along,
>there's nothing more to read. Really Eris, stop reading.
>______________________________________________
>
>Oh, oh, I just had a very wicked idea, if they offer more, the
>scenario might go something like this:
>[The PC has just offered a bribe to a Junior Bureaucrat (JB)]
> JB: Let me see if I have you right, you are offering me
> more to get service ahead of those who were in front of
> you in line.
> PC: Yes, I'm offering you an extra 100 credits on top of
> your normal 250 credits for preferential service.
> JB: [picks up comm] Get Senior Bureaucrat [insert name],
> I need a witness.
> PC: Something wrong?
> JB: No, nothing is wrong, just wait a minute, s/he is usually
> quite prompt in these matters, just hang on.
>[The Senior Bureaucrat (SB) shows up almost immediately.]
> SB: Okay, Junior, what's up?
> JB: Mr. PC would you care to repeat what you offered
> earlier in the presence of a witness?
> PC: I don't understand what you are talking about.
> JB: You know, you offered to pay me the usual 250 credits
> plus a "bonus" of 100 credits for quicker service, I want
> you to repeat what you said in front of my witness.
> PC: I still don't know what you are talking about.
> JB: Okay, let me play it back for you. Computer play back
> Mr. PC's comments just before the last time index I
> entered.
> Disembodied voice of PC, "Yes, I'm offering you an extra
> 100 credits on top of your normal 250 credits for
> preferential service."
> SB: Well Mr. PC, did you or didn't you make the offer?
> Before you answer that, let me warn you that there are
> serious consequences if you answer it incorrectly. We
> only want the truth.
>
>If the PC acknowledges the attempted bribe, s/he will be
>given the preferential treatment s/he's paying for. If not, the
>PC will be charged with breach of contract and attempting to
>induce a public official to commit malfeasance. The
>computer record will be sufficient evidence to convict the PC
>of the crimes s/he is charged with.
>
>In case you are wondering why JB called in a witness, it is so
>that JB's "6" is covered. After all, computer records can be
>modified, and live witness service is only 10%. Besides, as
>sure as JB hadn't called for a live witness, there would have
>been someone monitoring his conversation and it's better to
>be safe than sorry.
>--
>Jason
>______________________________________________
> The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
>http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
>Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
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>
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>
>__________________________________________
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>Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
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------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1850
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, February 2 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1851
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Serial Killers
Re: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
RE: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: Sad News
Re: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
Ok my turn
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Cereal Killers
JTAS #11
Re: Aging and Dice.
OT Thugee Ghandi (was Re: Serial Killers)
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Swine and Villains
Re: Imperial Murder Rate (was Swine and Villains or somesuch)
[none]
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
[none]
RE: Serial Killers
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Collecting debts
Re: Aging Rolls
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:32:54 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
Ian Ferguson wrote:
>
> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
> >One mechanism involved is likely the teleomere limit. The cells
> >can only divide so many times before they run out of teleomeres
> >("junk" DNA at the end of the strands). You see, each time a
> >cell copies the DNA, it loses a bit from the ends of the strands.
>
>
> I have never heard of cells loosing "junk" DNA during
> mitosis. Could you tell me where you saw this?
Well, this is not 'junk' DNA. Telomeres are very necessary. They are
protein/DNA structures that, as far as we can tell, help to stabilize
the ends of the chromosomes during mitosis. In crude terms they seem to
helpkeep the chromosomes from fraying at the ends. Telomers shorten over
the lifetime of the organism, putting a definite cap on how many times a
cell can reproduce, as eventually they run out of telomere, which
triggers apoptosis, somehow, which is 'cell death' (many OTHER things
can trigger apoptosis as well, it's just that this one definitely seems
related to aging.)
Whether this is because of or the cause of aging is up to debate right
now.
This came up in the study of Dolly and her clones...the clones had
telomeres the length of the adult sheep; hence the lambs should start
shoing the signs of aging much more rapidly.
IIRC those rare humans with progeria (premature aging syndrome...the
kids typically die of old age by 6 or so) also show rapidly accelerated
telomere degradation.
One of the hotter areas in aging research is just exactly what is going
on with this and how to stop it, or at least slow it down.
Liberal treatment with antioxidants _seems_ to do the latter, so take
those C, A, E and selenium supplements, folks!
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:34:36 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
Smith, Walter wrote:
>
> William F. Hostman wrote:
> >The Zhodani, on the other hand, Can, Will, and Do perform those kind of
> >screenings, and have an effective treatment.
>
> Scary thought: What if the "treatment" involves just tweaking them and
> putting them to work as foriegn intelligence operatives, assassins and
> semi-disposable soldiers?
Slippery Jim's wife Angelina springs to mind....
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:05:28 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>
> I have a friend in Colorado who has a set of "2D6 of damage".
> The suckers are solid brass, with the pips drilled into the
> faces, very nice looking dice - that are about two inches on an
> edge, and weigh about ninety pounds (avoirdupois, or however you
> spell it) each.
Uhhh, I don't think those are pure brass. At (roughly) 800 g/cc those
are considerably denser than anything _we_ can make. Does your friend
have access to a superdense-making machine?
Or perhaps you meant _nine_ pounds...though if your friend routinely
throws them at you, I suppose it could _feel_ like ninety pounds ;-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:12:05 -0000
From: "Mark Preston"
Subject: RE: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Only one problem with this. We are in the Saggitarius Arm - Orion is
approximately 1500 light years away from Sol and that is a hell of a
long way - if you measure out the distance on the maps, you'll find
that the entire Imperium fits easily into that kind of distance.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> Glenn Grant
> Sent: 30 January 2000 19:53
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
>
>
> >Via electronic medium on 1/29/00 10:43 AM,
> Hiroshi.Estigarribia@gmx.de
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Oh, I think you could use them for short-range STL
> travel: That is why I
> >> used that "crumpled table cover" comparison (exp?). If
[snip]
>
[snip]
> Hoppe stated that, at the distance of the Imperium (in other words,
> anywhere in the Orion Spiral Arm) this region is 50 parsecs
> in thickness.
[snip]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:10:11 -0800
From: "Brian Jenkins"
Subject: Re: Sad News
Van Vogt gone? That is really sad news. He was truly one of the old masters as you said.
Brian Jenkins
bjenkins@westek.com
ICQ#1202483
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:54:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
Bruce Johnson writes:
> Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> >
>
> > I have a friend in Colorado who has a set of "2D6 of damage".
> > The suckers are solid brass, with the pips drilled into the
> > faces, very nice looking dice - that are about two inches on an
> > edge, and weigh about ninety pounds (avoirdupois, or however you
> > spell it) each.
>
> Uhhh, I don't think those are pure brass. At (roughly) 800 g/cc those
> are considerably denser than anything _we_ can make. Does your friend
> have access to a superdense-making machine?
>
> Or perhaps you meant _nine_ pounds...though if your friend routinely
> throws them at you, I suppose it could _feel_ like ninety pounds ;-)
Even 9 pounds would be rather high, 125cc of solid iridium would be around
6 lb, brass would be more like 2 lb.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:54:34 -0800
From: "Brian Jenkins"
Subject: Ok my turn
First of all I want to thank all of you who responded to my post on why traveller has hooked you. And if you are interested I guess it is my turn to tell you why I keep coming back.
Many of you have already mentioned the open nature of the traveller universe. That is what first hooked me. My very first character was a scout (with a ship) and I had an excellent GM who, like me, had read every piece of Science Fiction he could get his hands on. He looked at me and said "Where do you want to go?" and I realized that he was turning me loose in the universe to wander and explore! In the years that I played in his campaign I found myself in Asimov's Foundation. I locked horns with an Evil Empire a la Star Wars. I ran across star rangers. I mean the universe was so vast that I could find everything and anything. It was so huge. And then the Character Generation gave me a whole other game to play. I played baby faced young ex naval lietenants looking for adventure and old merchants holding their ships together with bailing wire and duct tape. I was rich and poor. Famous and unknown. Noble and criminal. I have never since seen a RPG with this kin!
d of scope. I carried the same idea of that scope when Istarted being a Ref in the Navy. Freely defying Canon and building my own world. (Ok I admit it. I play MT without the rebellion). To this day that is what keeps me playing traveller. I may at any moment meet any of the heroes (or villains) I have read about in the stories of both my youth and adulthood. To me it even keeps those stories more alive. I have already in my campaign sprung characters on my young players that I have pulled from the stories of my youth and sent them all scrambling to the library to read some of the old classics so they can be ready if I do it again . And they are enjoying those same stories I did. I am hoping my schedule will allow me to continue running this campaign. It may sound odd but this is more than a game to me sometimes. It is a way to share with some of my younger friends the joys I got from my imagination in my youth. So thank you all again and as I have seen some!
say that is my .02 Cr worth. I will now retreat to my old leaky merc
h
to post.
Brian Jenkins
bjenkins@westek.com
ICQ#1202483
"What if Strephon gave a party and only Dulinor came?"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:30:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, used to be free starmaps.
Hm...using corrected values, I ran some path computations for a set of
stars reachable by 'jumps' of 7.7 light-years (per 2300AD). Interestingly
enough, it appears that there are only 966 stars which can be reached in
this way (this may reflect missing data in hipparcos, some dim red stars
might provide bridges, most of the cutoff points are at 60-80 lightyears).
Total number of plausibly habitable stars (main sequence, solid KGF) is
184 (close binaries not stripped). Total star systems is 7425
Interesting that it appears to cut off, though. Further cutoff points:
8 ly: 1331 stars, out to 91 ly (BD+42 1899)
8.25 ly: 1610 stars, out to 100 ly (Draconis A)
8.5 ly: 2142 stars, out to 100 ly (BD+73 925)
8.75 ly: 2336 stars, out to 100 ly (BD+73 925)
9 ly: 2545 stars, out to 118 ly (BD+62 1476)
9.5 ly: 2999 stars, out to 117 ly (BD+62 1476)
10 ly: 3268 stars, out to 149.5 ly (CD-47 51). Can probably be plausibly
assumed not to stop for a fairly substantial distance.
9 ly:
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:49:36 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Cereal Killers
...
>> even though somewhere over 70% of the western world enjoy some
>> form of mild B&D.
>
>That seems like an odd figure, one which is substantially higher than others
>which I have seen.
In NZ they have more sheep? :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 21:59:42 -0500
From: Peter Miller
Subject: JTAS #11
Hi,
I'm not sure if this reached the list or not, but I wanted to let you all
know that a store in Toronto known as The Worldhouse has a ton of JTAS #11
in excellent condition going for a measly $1 (Canadian). If anyone is
interested in a copy; let me know and I'll pick one up for you and mail it
off for the cost of the book + shipping.
Sorry if this is duplicated; I hadn't subscribed to the list yet and I
wasn't sure if non-subscribers messages got through.
Peter Miller
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:03:49 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: Aging and Dice.
>Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:42:30 -0900
>From: "William F. Hostman"
>Subject: Re Aging and Dice.
>
>>As an alternative use the ageing scheme from TNE.
>>Roll 1D15*. If the roll is less than the charecteristic reduce the
>>charecteristic by 1
>>so at low stat levels it's less likely to be reduced but by a greater
>>percentage
>>of the stat. This works better for me. YMMV.
>>
>I can see why... you'll never die, just languish in a coma... with all
>stats at 1. ;-)
>
>I think you probably should have said "Not more than" or "Less than or
>equal to"...
Um yes indeed i did mean less than or equal.
>
>And the "D15" of TNE, at least as I read it, was a D16-1, for equal or
>greater to avoid loss of attribute.
>
>I like this method, even for MT.
>
>BTW, I picked up some REAL d16's from Mr Newman a while back. I think
>Bosco's may have some.
But I have all of these d8's left over from fantasy gaming
so why bother with d16's?
David Shayne
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Veni, Vidi, Vaca.
I came, I saw, I had a cow
- Bart Caeser
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:17:13 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: OT Thugee Ghandi (was Re: Serial Killers)
>Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:48:23 -0600
>From: Black ICE
>Subject: Re: Serial Killers
>
>(BTW, there's a story in the _Alternate Warriors_ anthology [editor,
>Mike Resnick] about Mohandas Gandhi as a Kali cultist. Good read!)
hmm... non violent thugee....
British Officer : So you mean to tell me that your going to
kill me just buy fasting and demonstrations?
Thugee Ghandi : This is true. It may take twenty years or
even fifty years but eventually you will die.
Or words to that effect (It's been awhile since I saw the movie.)
I'm sorry I just couldn't resist.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:37:58 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
At 11:12 PM -0800 1/31/2000, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>Did anyone see a few weeks ago where Dr. Cynthia Kenyon was discussing her
>latest research on the subject of aging? Cynthia's one of my bosses here.
>We've got some worms that are living MUCH longer than they are supposed
>to. Anagathics might not be that far away, folks.
I just wonder what would happen if someone did develop a drug which
halted or slowed aging. If it was expensive and only the wealthy
could afford it, how would people who couldn't afford it react? If
it was cheap and everyone started living even longer than they live
now, how would we deal with the resultant dramatic increase in
population? While I'm all for not growing old, some of the implications
of anagathics are kind of scary.
The Imperium avoids some of these problems by having lots of planets
with room on them. I think that the impact of anagathics on Imperial
society is way underrated, however.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 03:41:03 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:01:34 -0800, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven
Hudson) wrote:
>>From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
>>Subject: Re: Swine and Villains
>...
>>>>I bet it would be easy for a serial killer to operate in the 3I. With
>>>>the vast population there are probably a million murders a day. How
>>>
>>> Heck, that sounds like the original Porozlo :>
>>
>>Um, who?
>
> Hi-Pop (A!), stellar TL world near Rhylanor in the SM; _lots_ of people...
>
Holy cow cheese! 21+ BILLION PEOPLE! You ain't lyin' bruddah!
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."
-Ecclesiastes 3:1
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 04:20:53 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Imperial Murder Rate (was Swine and Villains or somesuch)
On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:37:51 -0500, "Chris Seamans"
wrote:
>Pete said:
>
>>> I bet it would be easy for a serial killer to operate in the 3I. With
>>> the vast population there are probably a million murders a day.
>
>Terry Carlino Said, in response:
>
>> I think that you're basing your premise of murder rates too much on
>> modern western (U.S.) civilization. Murder rates in Japan are a tenth
>> of the rates in the U.S. Rates in most of Europe (Not counting the
>> areas of ethnic cleansing) are a third or a fourth of the U.S. rate.
>> Australia's rate is half the rate in the U.S.
>
>What's the population of the Imperium, anyhow? It is possible, of course,
>that his murder rate might come out to be lower than you're thinking. :)
>
>Just as a little exercise, I decided to work it out:
>
>I ended up with a population of around 19 trillion in the Imperium, based on
>the number of worlds (around 11,000) and the average population according to
>the population tables (which could be wrong, I did it rather quickly). If
>I'm right on that figure, and I'm not claiming that I am 100% correct, then
>Pete's number of murders comes out to something like 1.9 murders per 100,000
>people, per year.
>
>
>I suspect that Pete came up with the number off of the top of his head,
>though, so your own mileage may vary quite a bit. :)
>
Guilty of WAGing as charged. ;-) One million was a nice round number.
I didn't think it would be TOO far off base considering the size of
the Imperium.
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."
-Ecclesiastes 3:1
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:20:26 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: [none]
>I've got amber arcs for the amber zone, and red circles
>for interdicted zones. What else shall I do?
>
>Can anyone think of a useful way to encode trade
>classifications; for instance, denoting a world as
>being Rich or Industrial or Agricultural?
>
Standard includes worlds being white or black (opposite of background
color) if desert; blue otherwise. I like the green idea for agricultural
worlds.
>Agricultural is easy - color the world green (it has to
>have water on it anyhow). But Rich is more difficult...
>gold? And Industrial is even more difficult.
>
>Anyone have suggestions of any kind for subsector maps?
I am thinking 1 subsector per a4/ltr sheet size, you could do
Ri: Yellow horizontal stripe across the dot
Po: Red horizontal stripe across the dot
In: Grey band around dot
NI: red band around dot
De: Light Brown dot
neither Fl, De, Wa, or NA: medium blue dot
NA: Dark Brown world dot (or maybe orange)
Wa: aqua/blue-green dot
Ag: Green dot
Fl: Purple dot
Va: white or black world dot
if two of the above: half each (045-225, 225-045)
if three of the above, 1/3 each (300-060, 060-180, 180-300)
Ic: polar caps in white or grey
Hi: As ever, all caps name
Lo: no name, or no caps in name
Above just suggestions. But, if you do this, you need larger dots than used
in most maps...
another idea: The GG dot is standard. Add a Planetoid belt "ring" next to
it for systems with planetoid belts. Include the star type on the map.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:27:00 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
>>
>> On ni gavaritia germanski-yzik. Ja ni ponemaietia.
>>
>"they not speak german" "I no understand".
>
>Your conjugation might not be the best but I understood it loud and clear.
>:)
So did I. One nitpick, tho... Nemyetski yaziku or po-nemyetski is the
ruskovoi for german.
Ya nye govaru po-nemyetski. Ya nye znayu nemyetskovoi yaziku.
Interesting how we differ in indicating the jotated vowels, isn't it? Y vs J.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:44:18 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: [none]
>William F. Hostman wrote:
>>The Zhodani, on the other hand, Can, Will, and Do perform those kind of
>>screenings, and have an effective treatment.
>
>Scary thought: What if the "treatment" involves just tweaking them and
>putting them to work as foriegn intelligence operatives, assassins and
>semi-disposable soldiers?
>
>This assumes there are brains the Zho's can't fix completely, and that
>they want to give even the broken-brained a place in society. Even the
>government of a Utopia must sometimes commit unspeakable acts,
>if they are surrounded by less Utopian societies.
IMTU, there are those they can fix, or fix at least enough to be able to
function for short periods on pass, and long periods under strict (say
military) supervision, and a very few they can't fix enough for military
service. These latter ones, IMTU, get euthanized if they can't be happy yet
not a threat.
It's the ones who can say "I won't kill without permission, but when I have
permission, I WILL enjoy it", and live up to it, who the Sorag boys want.
Think of the absolutely rabid individual who's been wired to get off on
Permitted murder, but not disallowed murder. Sort of the like of Lacey.[1]
Yes, I use SORAG IMTU. Just not the SORAG CGen. I assume it's like the USMC
of the Tavershedzle... a separate service, who are technically under the
authority of the "Parent" branch. With SORAG personell being CAREFULLY
watched by the Guardians of Zhodani Morality....
For those not fully conversant, until relatively recently (somewhere around
1960,IIRC), the USMC was technically part of the US Navy, even though they
had separate uniforms and training. They are part of the Department of the
Navy, at least as recently as 1987.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:19:25 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Serial Killers
>
> > May people like to deny such feelings, but research has shown that even
> > the most moral, god-fearing, loving, mild-mannered, little old lady
will
> > get excited when they think they have killed someone, even if
> > externally they are full of remorse and contrition.
>
> I would be interested in seeing such research.
I'll see if I can find the reference, but I heard about it when I did first
year psychology some ten years ago, so it depends on whether I can find my
notes.
IIRC, it was a similar experiment to, perhaps even associated with, the one
where they got people to give electric shocks of steadily increasing
intensity to people (actually actors, with no electricity involved) under
the direction of a "doctor".
> This would mean that the
> researchers must have devised some way of reliably determining an
> individual's internal state of mind independant of their external
> behavior.
I meant "excited" as a physiological state, not an internal mental state.
They measured sweat production, heart rate, brain wave activity, and several
other things.
> Not to mention that 'excited' is a pretty broad term, not necessarily
> equating to positive arousal that feels good. 'Excited' can also mean
> 'scared out of your f***ing mind,' and not be a pleasant experience
> whatsoever.
True, though I think fear can be reasonably easily distinguished from
excitement. Even though it has some shared physiological reactions, there
are others that do not occur in excitement and vice versa.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 01:06:01 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
I see a lot of that William. Depending on the Russian I am ICQing, I will
get JA or YA.
"I not speak German" "I not know German" "language"? I don't know your
last word, 'yaziku'.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "William F. Hostman"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
> >>
> >> On ni gavaritia germanski-yzik. Ja ni ponemaietia.
> >>
> >"they not speak german" "I no understand".
> >
> >Your conjugation might not be the best but I understood it loud and
clear.
> >:)
> So did I. One nitpick, tho... Nemyetski yaziku or po-nemyetski is the
> ruskovoi for german.
>
> Ya nye govaru po-nemyetski. Ya nye znayu nemyetskovoi yaziku.
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:55:58 +1100
From: "Hughes, Michael"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Collecting debts
I know this is a dated and OT but . . .
I have a friend who owns two franchise video stores in Oz (Video Ezy) and
they often have defaulters on rentals (videos and machines). Solution? The
weight lifter friend. This guy is so HUGE that when video store owner got
married, WL had to have the tux made.
BB friend goes to door of defaulter's house and knocks. Defaulter (or
flat-mate thereof) answers door. WL says 'I believe that you have a video
machine of ours'. Video machine is passed over without comment.
No overt act of violence has been made or implied. But a 6'6" Weight Lifter
asking for the stuff back certainly helps in the collection department.
BTW Video store owner is Australian Italian - as is WL.
Ob Trav; No matter the tech, there is always going to be a need for large
muscley men in an ill fitting suit to help in situations like this. Player's
consider getting one for the crew. Just berth him until he's needed. 'Wake
up Luigi/Boris/Recently Shaved Gorilla. This broker's wigged on a deal. We
want you to ask him to reconsider'. Perhaps an Aslan male . . .
Michael
When I was up in Vancouver my brother in law, who is for an Italian family,
took me to his store and asked me to look intimidating and not speak. He
motioned for me to stay at the back of the store when he went to talk to his
brother so I took up a stance by the back door. When this guy at the
counter looked back and saw me standing there all in black with sunglasses,
fingerless gloves and my pony tail exclaimed "Shit, Danny's got his own
enforcer." His brother then got a worried look when Danny told him that we
where going to drive around and pick up some checks that people owed him. ;)
G.D.D.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:01:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>>One mechanism involved is likely the teleomere limit. The cells
>>can only divide so many times before they run out of teleomeres
>>("junk" DNA at the end of the strands). You see, each time a
>>cell copies the DNA, it loses a bit from the ends of the strands.
>
>
> I have never heard of cells loosing "junk" DNA during
> mitosis. Could you tell me where you saw this?
Not "losing junk DNA". Losing DNA from the ends of the strands, junk or
not.
Look up "teleomeres" and "teleomerase". It was all over the news a few
months back.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1851
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, February 2 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1852
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Guns
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Languages in YTU (was Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller)
Re: Re Elder Worms
Re: Frigate crew questions
The evolutionary disadvantages of immortality
Re: Ok my turn
Re: Re Elder Worms
Re: Sad news...
Re: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
Re: Serial Killers
Re: Serial Killers
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Re: Sad news...
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, TML #1848
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: Frigate crew questions TML #1848
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:05:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Guns
In mail you write:
> William F. Hostman wrote:
>>
>> ><< Mostmid-caliber rounds (7-10mm) had
>> > one-shot stops around 60-65%; One-shot kills somewhat less. [I only
>> > memorized a few statistics. Sorry.] >>
>> >
>> >What was the .38 special and the .38 special +P?
>>
>> IIRc, About 62% OSS, and about 50% OSK, With about 2/3rds of the kills also
>> being stops.
>
> If 2/3 of the kills were also stops, doesn't this mean that 1/3 of
> those killed kept on coming? :)
"kill" <> "instant kill".
As was explained in a previous post, a wound can kill you within
minutes, but leave you all too active *during* those minutes. That's a
"kill" but not a "stop". Get the idea?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:59:11 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
>> >> On ni gavaritia germanski-yzik. Ja ni ponemaietia.
>I see a lot of that William. Depending on the Russian I am ICQing, I will
>get JA or YA.
>
>"I not speak German" "I not know German" "language"? I don't know your
>last word, 'yaziku'.
Yazik v po-angliski eta "tongue"; Moi po-russkovoi uchitela Ruskova, ona
bweela student v universitats v Moskva dvasti lyet (kakoi po-ruski "ago"?).
for the russian impaired: "Yazik in english is tongue; my russian teacher
is a (female) russian, she was a student in university [of] Moscow 20 years
ago."
this would be much easier if I
a) didn't have to transliterate
b) didn't learn from a Russian Orthodox Ex-Soviet from Moscow
c) could think of a good transliteration for the vowel which appears
between myagee znak and tvordi znak (having mentioned all three in one
sentence, i'll note that they also have no capital forms...)
d) didn't use the 40 bukva azbuka (40 letter alphabet) (Modern is 33)
e) hear church slavonic, armenian, and polish as much as russian.
you transliterated it as yzik
transliterating the letter names, the word is spelled yah-zeh-ee-kay, which
is why I put the "a" that threw ya.
Ob Trav 1: Traveller has one of the best transliteration schemes I've
seen... the only thing it doesn't do is separate unitary dipthongs from
elision pairings of separate sylable's vowels... Which is why I generally
do them in all caps except for the second (and third) letters of any single
"Sound" rolled. Or, when I have the option, underline the latter letters of
a group.
Am curious, tho, who's the responsible party for the system that evolved?
Ob Trav 2: IMTU, Galanglic has formal spellings in both bilandin and anglic
characters, as well as an expanded cyrillic (basically, ukranian plus a
few). Which is used depends more on where one is than on official biases.
Much like church slavonic.[1]
[1] For those not familiar, Church slavonic is a synthetic language created
by [supposedly] Sts. Cyril and Methodius, based upon the various slavic
languages. It has formal transliterations between cyrilic (45 letter),
glagolithic, roman, and one other character set. Like most slavic
languages, it has pretty much identical root words, with differing
conjugation and declension patterns to the others. Church slavonic is used
by certain byzantine catholics (Specifically the Carpetho-Russin recension
thereof), and a few other groups. It is pretty much mutually intelligible
to Russians, Ukranians, and Slovaks.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com
ICQ:14640742 AIM:AKAramis ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:09:17 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Languages in YTU (was Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller)
All this talk of Russian has no relevance to the TU. Why? (Here comes the
serious part...) I just read a review of a book A History of
Language in the latest issue of "The Economist." The author of this
book claims that only three languages spoken today have the critical mass to
survive beyond a few hundred years: Chinese, English, and Spanish. Even
other languages spoken in rich, influential countries like Japan and Germany
will not last more than a few hundred years. So if you are pondering the
languages spoken by different cultures in YTU, maybe these are the lanugages
to use.
> >> >> On ni gavaritia germanski-yzik. Ja ni ponemaietia.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:14:30 -0800
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan"
Subject: Re: Re Elder Worms
From: John R. Snead
>"William F. Hostman" wrote:
>
>>>Did anyone see a few weeks ago where Dr. Cynthia Kenyon was discussing
her latest research on the subject of aging? Cynthia's one of my bosses
here. We've got some worms that are living MUCH longer than they are
supposed to. Anagathics might not be that far away, folks.
>>>
>>Uh, if that was the one hosted by Alan Alda, aren't those worms being
either surgically &/or genetically modified? It's not much good to live
twice as long if you can't breed.
>>
Um, *I* can't breed-- and I think *my* life is worth living!
>On a species level perhaps, but on a personal level it sounds fine. In
fact, it sounds ideal. You offer treatment to folks, they end up sterile
but longer-lived. Seems like a great way of both lengthening lifespans and
cutting down on our population.
>
Actually you need to find a way to cut down on the birth rate when people
start living longer.
I will check with someone in the Kenyon lab, but while these critters are
genetically modified, I believe they can still reproduce themselves.
They're not clones, and there are several generations of them. I might ask
Cynthia herself if I can get a moment with her-- she's always tickled that
people are interested in her work.
Kiri =)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God...
tiamat@tsoft.com
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is
sacred somewhere. There's a deity out there who digs it. You can respect
and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or
impractical. It's all about giving yourself permission."
-- Jack Darkhand
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 02:24:47 -0600
From: Charles R Hensley
Subject: Re: Frigate crew questions
Andy Akins wrote:
>This comes up with:
> 8 Offciers (4 ship, 4 fighters)
> 12 NCOs
> 68 Ratings/Enlisted
>
>Total crew of 88
>
>So my question is - does this look reasonable? The breakdown of
>ratings/nco/officers, that is...
>
>And what would you guess are the ranks of the officers?
>
The break down looks good 10: enlisted to officer
I would like to see another sensor tech
Ranks
CO Commander (last post before becoming a Captain)
XO Lt. Commander
Flight Officer Lt. commander
Pilot Lieutenant
Chief Engineer Lieutenant
Pilot Sub-Lieutenant
Tac Officer Sub-Lieutenant
Pilot Ensign
Charles
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:05:58 -0000
From: Brian Caball
Subject: The evolutionary disadvantages of immortality
try looking at things from at a LONG time-scale. The "Immortals" will
breed less often than the "mortals". They will quickly reach the maximum
number of individuals their environment can support. Some immortals will
die due to accidents, predation, disease, or sexually frustrated
youngsters, but the individuals will live a lot longer than their mortal
cousins. Thus, inbreeding will be more of a problem for the immortals
than for the mortals.
The evolution of the Immortals will be slower than the mortals. Every
generation the mortals start with a clean slate, but the Immortals might
have lucky individuals lasting tens of generations. These old ones will
continue to pass on their genetic material, homogenising the gene pool
across time. Many of the immortals will be the great-great-grand
children of the old ones, and so everyone will be everyone else's cousin
(que duelling banjos).
Thus over long time frames, they will be far less adaptable. Reasonably
slow events that might wipe out the immortals might not wipe out
mortals, as they might evolve fast enough to adapt to the new
conditions. If immortality were such a major evolutionary advantage, why
do we not see more immortal creatures? (Though some trees come close)
- -Brian Caball
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 07:00:26 -0600
From: meow@advancenet.net
Subject: Re: Ok my turn
I got hooked on Traveller after reading the
review in Dragon #18, It looked much more
interesting than D&D, and seemed to have far
more potential, the fact that it was produced by
a local company didnt hurt matters either,
although I'd been playing some of the
historical games that GDW produced for a couple
of years before I found Traveller. I didnt
really get to play it for the first time til
Winter Wars a while later, when we played the
in and won the tournament game that would later
become Shadows.
I've stayed hooked all these years because I
like the backround and the flexibility of the
system, granted its not Hero or GURPS, but theres
a whole universe out there to play with. I've
played Space Opera, and Space Master, especially
during the TNE era, because I thought TNE was a
complete disaster for Traveller. but I've always
come back.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:20:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Elder Worms
In mail you write:
> On a species level perhaps, but on a personal level it sounds fine. In
> fact, it sounds ideal. You offer treatment to folks, they end up sterile
> but longer-lived. Seems like a great way of both lengthening lifespans
> and cutting down on our population.
I recall some sf story with an interesting premise. An immortality
treatment that *only* works if given *before* puberty...
So you have a choice between having kids and living forever....
It also leads to problems with "kids" who are a couple of centuries old.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:27:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sad news...
In mail you write:
> Just read this on Slashdot, of all places, and I hadn't seen it
> mentioned here yet...
>
> A.E.Van Vogt died last Wednesday. Another Grand Old Master is gone...
Well, the best "tribute" I can think of is to point out all the stuff
he wrote that's usable in Traveller, with only minor changes.
His first story "Black Destroyer" involves an alien creature that is
almost *too* nasty to turn loose on PCs. It's in a lot of anthologies.
It's included in "Voyage of the Space Beagle", which also has at least
one other nasty alien.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:39:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
In mail you write:
> I have a friend in Colorado who has a set of "2D6 of damage".
> The suckers are solid brass, with the pips drilled into the
> faces, very nice looking dice - that are about two inches on an
> edge, and weigh about ninety pounds (avoirdupois, or however you
> spell it) each. If someone ever threw them _at_ you, you'd
> definitely take 2D6 of damage - hence the name. :)
Sorry, but brass only has a density of around 8. 2 inch cubes are
about 125 cc. Which gives a mass of about 1 kg each. or 4.4 lbs for the
pair.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:42:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
In mail you write:
> I recall a book..._Murder and Magic_? About a somewhat Holmsian
> detective in a world where magic worked.
One of the Lord Darcy stories by the late Randall Garret. An
*oustanding* example of "hard fantasy".
> A character's servant was
> a complete psychopath - to the magic-oriented psychologists of this
> world, some demonic creature had intervened at the time of his
> birth and prevented a soul from entering the man's body. There was
> no known way to give such a man a concience, as such a thing was
> a feature of creatures with souls. Instead of euthanizing or permanently
> imprisoning him, they placed him under a strong Geas to obey a certain
> person in all things, presumably a person of good concience - this "master"
> would make all the moral decisions for the man who had this disability.
>
> There was a scene where the "master", in extremis, ordered his quiet,
> respectable servant to kill some villains of the piece...which he did
> as calmly as you or I would sip iced tea, though he was mortally wounded
> in the process. More like an automaton than a man, and somewhat more
> chilling an idea than the bad guys themselves.
More to the point, after telling the servant "Kill the traitors", the
"master" forgot to countermand the order. Which meant that at a later
time, when the (now recovered) master called someone a traitor, the
servant started to attack *before* the accused did.
> The Tvar'Chdle then handed him over to Inspector Jhianzhant's Special
> Operations Directive, who saw him, not as a broken shard, but as the
> beginnings of a fine dagger...
Yep. It's an old story. And likely to be repeated as long as humans are
human.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:48:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
In mail you write:
> From: Frank G. Pitt
>
>>and my enjoyment of mild B&D would also be exposed as "weird"
>> even though somewhere over 70% of the western world enjoy some
>> form of mild B&D.
>
> That seems like an odd figure, one which is substantially higher than others
> which I have seen.
keep in mind that regardless of what the "average person" thinks, stuff
like spanking with the hand, or liking to be "held down" by your
partner *is* BDSM type behavior.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 09:19:41 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
Leonard Erickson writes:
>> Leonard Erickson writes:
>>
>>>One mechanism involved is likely the teleomere limit. The cells
>>>can only divide so many times before they run out of teleomeres
>>>("junk" DNA at the end of the strands). You see, each time a
>>>cell copies the DNA, it loses a bit from the ends of the strands.
>>
>> I have never heard of cells loosing "junk" DNA during
>> mitosis. Could you tell me where you saw this?
>Not "losing junk DNA". Losing DNA from the ends of the strands,
>junk or not.
>Look up "teleomeres" and "teleomerase". It was all over the news a
>few months back.
Although this is certainly not my area of expertese, I am
well aware of what teleomeres are. As Bruce Johnson
mentioned in his post, they are not "junk DNA" as you
seemed to have defined them. Teleomeres are specific
structures that appear to shorten with each cell division
(with the notable exception of "meiosis," which is where
cells divide in a different way to create "haploid" cells
for sperm or egg production). As far as I know, the
shortening of the teleomeres eventually impairs the cell's
ability to divide, but the cell does not start loosing
"useful" DNA other than that in the teleomere (which it
was loosing all along, though slowly). Perhaps I
misunderstood your explanation:
>One mechanism involved is likely the teleomere limit. The cells
>can only divide so many times before they run out of teleomeres
>("junk" DNA at the end of the strands). You see, each time a cell
>copies the DNA, it loses a bit from the ends of the strands. As
>long as the "junk" DNA is there, this isn't a problem. But after
>a certain number of divisions, you start losing DNA that actually
>*does* something. And thus, things start breaking down.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:40:14 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
Jeff Zeitlin said:
> > faces, very nice looking dice - that are about two inches on an
> > edge, and weigh about ninety pounds (avoirdupois, or however
> > you spell it) each. If someone ever threw them _at_ you, you'd
> > definitely take 2D6 of damage - hence the name. :)
Leonard Erickson said:
> Sorry, but brass only has a density of around 8. 2 inch cubes are
> about 125 cc. Which gives a mass of about 1 kg each. or 4.4 lbs for
>the pair.
I've got one word for the thousands of people who have responded to Jeff's
comment in a similar fashion to Leonard: hyperbole.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 15:48:41 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Re: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
At 15:33 01.02.00 -0500, you wrote:
>>(snip -various ideas on an explanation for 2D))
(snip)
>>Could you elaborate on the advantages of the "multiple crumpled table cloth
>>theory" over the "single" variant?
>
>The short form is that you get a lot more explorable 'frontier'
>without necessarily violating the canonical material. Part of
>that is that you can potentially move parties from canonical
>material to your non-canonical areas (in adjacent jump planes)
>and back in reasonable time, and with continuity.
But wouldn't other jump planes have invited a lot of people to settle new
frontiers in the past? Wouldn't the Terrans have sent STL ships to systems
that could not be reached via jump drive, just to seize additional
ressources? Or to escape from the Imperium? Wouldn't some scientist have
come up with the idea of other jump planes during the Rule Of Man or during
the 1100-year history of the Third Imperium?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:21:05 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
What exactly is "bweela"? This single word has been driving me nuts as its
used extensively in Russian pop songs.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "William F. Hostman"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
>
> Yazik v po-angliski eta "tongue"; Moi po-russkovoi uchitela Ruskova, ona
> bweela student v universitats v Moskva dvasti lyet (kakoi po-ruski
"ago"?).
>
> for the russian impaired: "Yazik in english is tongue; my russian teacher
> is a (female) russian, she was a student in university [of] Moscow 20
years
> ago."
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:31:32 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Sad news...
Voyage was a very nice book. In it we meet :
Couerl - tentacled cat-like monster
Ixtl - scarlet devil-creature
The Riim - hypnotic bird critters
and that intelligent but malevolent cloud-creature.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: Sad news...
> In mail you write:
>
> > Just read this on Slashdot, of all places, and I hadn't seen it
> > mentioned here yet...
> >
> > A.E.Van Vogt died last Wednesday. Another Grand Old Master is gone...
>
> Well, the best "tribute" I can think of is to point out all the stuff
> he wrote that's usable in Traveller, with only minor changes.
>
> His first story "Black Destroyer" involves an alien creature that is
> almost *too* nasty to turn loose on PCs. It's in a lot of anthologies.
> It's included in "Voyage of the Space Beagle", which also has at least
> one other nasty alien.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:33:39 -0700
From: "Eric T. Holmes"
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, TML #1848
Fellow Travellers:
All this information on nearby stars is a little dizzying for me.
My question may have been answered before, but could someone
give me an "algebraic" solution to figuring out the 3D distances for
stars? Or just point me in the correct direction.
Thanks
Eric
eholmes@lanl.gov holmberg@thuntek.net
7am to 4pm Mountain Time 6pm to Midnight Mountain Time
IMTU: he+, tc+, tm, tne, t4, tg, tt, to, ru, ge, 3i+, c+, jt, au, st, ls+,
pi+, ta+,
as+, va+, dr+, _sa_, kk--, hi--, so++, zh, vi, da, sy, _hu_
(sa = other sapients, hu = other humani)
Lacedaemon, we have done our duty.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:52:03 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Robert Eaglestone wrote:
> I have a perl script that generates PostScript subsector
> maps from sector files. Recently, I've discovered the
> magic of color in PostScript files. SO I'm adding some
> color to my subsector maps.
>
> I've got amber arcs for the amber zone, and red circles
> for interdicted zones. What else shall I do?
I've got an experimental perl script for PostScript sector maps.
My plan was to keep the color low-key, but one of the things that
I've done is to switch the font color of the world name to red if
the world is a Cp or Cx.
-- Steve Bonneville
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 09:06:56 -0700
From: "Eric T. Holmes"
Subject: Re: Frigate crew questions TML #1848
Fellow Travellers:
Andy Akins came up with the following:
> I figure three watches, each 8 hours long. The work duty would be one watch
on,
one watch "rest", and one watch "sleep". The rest watch would be when people
could study, relax, and work on miscellaneous things (both work and relaxing
related).
>
I'd like to discuss this a little further.
Traditionally, in the pre-WWI US Navy the ship's crew is divided into to
"watches" based upon each side
of the ship, these being: "The Port Watch" and "The Starboard Watch." The
crew members
were distingushed from each other by having the white stripe of the uniform
cuff on the appropriate arm,
left for "Port" and right for "Starboard." The crew was then divided based
upon which hour or ship's activity
was occurring at the appropriate time.
So here's my take for Traveller
Ships Watches
Graveyard Midnight - 4am 0000 - 0400
Morning 4am - 8am 0400 - 0800
First 8am - Noon 0800 - 1200
Second Noon - 4pm 1200 - 1600
Dog 4pm - 8pm 1600 - 2000
Mid 8pm - Midnight 2000 - 0000
Each half hour, bells are sounded on the operations deck. The first bell of
the duty day is sounded at 0030,
and for every half hour after that and additional bell is sounded until 0400,
when eight bells are sounded.
At this time, the watch changes, and the routine of sounding the bells starts
over again, when a half hour
into the watch, the first bell sounds. This process goes through the 24-hour
clock (a Solomani based anachronism.)
Special Watches
Anchor Watch: on board ship while in port
Harbor Watch: off ship while in port (Those on Liberty are not the Harbor
Watch. The Harbor Watch catches
the bad boys on Liberty. Sometimes called Shore Patrol from the old Terran Wet
Navy days. Might be called
the Star Port Watch, or Liberty Watch.)
Cold Watch: cold sleep in reserve.
Below Watch: on board, off duty
Port Watch: Half of the crew, from the Port side of the ship *
Starboard Watch: Half of the crew, from the Starboard side of the ship *
* Terran tradition has it that the half crew watches wore a stripe on the
appropriate sleeve to denote which watch they were part of.
These watch assignments were given based upon which side of the ship the
individual was berthed on.
Eric
eholmes@lanl.gov holmberg@thuntek.net
7am to 4pm Mountain Time 6pm to Midnight Mountain Time
IMTU: he+, tc+, tm, tne, t4, tg, tt, to, ru, ge, 3i+, c+, jt, au, st, ls+,
pi+, ta+,
as+, va+, dr+, _sa_, kk--, hi--, so++, zh, vi, da, sy, _hu_
(sa = other sapients, hu = other humani)
Lacedaemon, we have done our duty.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:28:01 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Jory Earl wrote:
>
> What exactly is "bweela"? This single word has been driving me nuts as its
> used extensively in Russian pop songs.
It's the past tense of the verb "to be", referring to a feminine (or
inanimate) subject, in first, second or third person singular. First
syllable stressed - it. Second syllable stressed - I, you, she, or it
(note that most Russian inanimate objects have gender).
ObTrav: Compare and contrast grammatical forms used in Galanglic,
Vilani, and Old High Sylean (25 points).
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1852
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, February 2 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1853
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1849
Re: Re Guns
RE: Re Guns
Re: Serial Killers
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, TML #1848
RE: The evolutionary disadvantages of immortality (longish)
Re: Frigate crew questions TML #1848
Galanglic
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1852
Re: Heavy Hyperbole
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1852
Watches (Was: Frigate crew question)
Re: Languages in YTU
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Re: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
Re: Sad news...
Re: A catalog of nearby stars, TML #1848
Re: Aging and Dice.
RE: Real Star Maps
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 09:32:17 -0700
From: "Eric T. Holmes"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1849
Fellow Travellers:
Russell Bornschlegel wrote:
> Again IMTU, a 1-3Kton ship would be commanded by a Lt Cmdr, and a
sub-Kton craft (SDB, courier, or what have you) might be commanded
by a Lieutenant. For this reason, IMTU, "Skipper" and not "Captain"
(nor "Commander") is used to describe the ship command position -
even when the Skipper is a Captain.
>
I would tend to disagree with calling a man "Skipper," especially to his
face. He'd be called, "Captain of the Ship," no matter what his rank,
just as an aircrew has an "Aircraft Commander" and any military
unit has a "Commander." Put in the appropriate level of the unit
down to platoon. Tradition lives in this ex-Missile Crew Commander!
Eric
eholmes@lanl.gov holmberg@thuntek.net
7am to 4pm Mountain Time 6pm to Midnight Mountain Time
IMTU: he+, tc+, tm, tne, t4, tg, tt, to, ru, ge, 3i+, c+, jt, au, st, ls+,
pi+, ta+,
as+, va+, dr+, _sa_, kk--, hi--, so++, zh, vi, da, sy, _hu_
(sa = other sapients, hu = other humani)
Lacedaemon, we have done our duty.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 11:35:00 -0500
From: Ethan Henry
Subject: Re: Re Guns
ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry) wrote:
>
> He told me that an officer on the range will hit his target every time. In
> training scenarios with paint guns and in real life where stress is a
> factor, more than half will miss from 15 feet. Anecdotally, three officers
> were in a shootout where the officers expended 23 rounds, only three of
> which hit.
Well, I'm no firearms expert, but I have shot a paintball gun a few times
in my life. They are several orders of magnitude less accurate than a real
gun. Real guns shoot in (nearly) straight lines. Paintball guns shoot a much
larger, much less well shaped round that has signifigant aerodynamic
characteristics. The world's best shot can't hit the broad side of a barn
100% of the time with a paintball gun. For ex: one time I shot at a tree. The
shot went over a fire and the hot air took the pellet up about, oh, 10 feet
from where it would have gone had the shot gone "straight". It still hit
the tree though - just waaaaay up. Another time I shot someone at point
blank... and the pellet bounced off the guy, unbroken. Don't play paintball
in the cold. :(
Paintball, while fun, is only marginally better at simulating a real
firefight than "Quake".
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:57:19 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M."
Subject: RE: Re Guns
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ethan Henry [mailto:egh@klg.com]
> Well, I'm no firearms expert, but I have shot a paintball gun
> a few times
> in my life. They are several orders of magnitude less
> accurate than a real
> gun.
> Paintball, while fun, is only marginally better at simulating a real
> firefight than "Quake".
Except for the fact that the 'paintball' guns used in many police/military
training rounds are not the same as you and I use on the paintball field.
http://www.tacfire.com/training.htm
http://www.srtsupply.com/vendor/Simunitions/srtsim.htm
"FX� Marking cartridges can be fired from the user's service weapons,
producing similar recoil and tactical accuracy up to 7.6 meters (25 feet).
As a result, the realism and training value of any individual or tactical
exercise is significantly enhanced."
-- vargr1 UPP-8D9B85 --
The three principle virtues of a good programmer | dmoody@bridge-dot-com
are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris. | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com
** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:59:28 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Serial Killers
From: Leonard Erickson
> keep in mind that regardless of what the "average person" thinks,
> stuff like spanking with the hand, or liking to be "held down" by your
> partner *is* BDSM type behavior.
Actually, what the average person thinks is central to the discussion I was
engaged in with Frank, which concerned deviation from the norm.
There are a host of other issues involved with the above which are most
likely not appropriate for discussion on the list.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:19:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, TML #1848
Eric T. Holmes writes:
>
> Fellow Travellers:
>
> All this information on nearby stars is a little dizzying for me.
>
> My question may have been answered before, but could someone
> give me an "algebraic" solution to figuring out the 3D distances for
> stars? Or just point me in the correct direction.
If you have two stars, one at coordinates X1,Y1,Z1, the other at coordinates
X2,Y2,Z2, the distance is square root( (x1-x2)^2 + (y1-y2)^2 + (z1-z2)^2 ).
This is the 3-dimensional form of the pythagorean theorem.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 12:20:39 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: The evolutionary disadvantages of immortality (longish)
Brian Caball writes:
>try looking at things from at a LONG time-scale. The "Immortals"
>will breed less often than the "mortals".
If we are talking about sophonts, this may be true. If
humans remained physically 25 years old for millenia, I can
easily believe that they would reproduce at a lower rate
than the average 25-year-old mortal. On the other hand,
immortality itself does not automatically imply a lower
reproductive rate, but see below.
>They will quickly reach the maximum number of individuals their
>environment can support.
Most mortal organisms will do this, given a chance.
>Some immortals will die due to accidents, predation, disease, or
>sexually frustrated youngsters, but the individuals will live a
>lot longer than their mortal cousins. Thus, inbreeding will be
>more of a problem for the immortals than for the mortals.
This is a very interesting point. I cannot see offhand why
immortals should suffer from more inbreeding than mortals,
but I cannot see why they should not either. Hmmmm...
>The evolution of the Immortals will be slower than the mortals.
>Every generation the mortals start with a clean slate, but the
>Immortals might have lucky individuals lasting tens of generations.
>These old ones will continue to pass on their genetic material,
>homogenising the gene pool across time.
Excellent point.
>Many of the immortals will be the great-great-grand children of
>the old ones, and so everyone will be everyone else's cousin
>(que duelling banjos).
Well, they would all be each others cousins whether or not
the elders survived. I'm still thinking about this.
>Thus over long time frames, they will be far less adaptable.
>Reasonably slow events that might wipe out the immortals might
>not wipe out mortals, as they might evolve fast enough to adapt
>to the new conditions. If immortality were such a major
>evolutionary advantage, why do we not see more immortal
>creatures? (Though some trees come close)
This is a question that many evolutionary biologists are
very interested in (in fact, a prominant researcher in
this field is visiting our lab this friday). The current
thinking is this: any genes that promote the survival of
the group (population or species) will not tend to evolve
if they inhibit the reproductive success of individuals
in the group. For example, consider a gene that causes
meadow voles to slow down reproduction when the population
approaches the limits of available food. Such a gene might,
if it was in every vole in the population, prevent that
population from eating all the food and then starving to
death. However, if there is even one gene that makes the
individual vole selfish, reproducing as much as possible
regardless of conditions, the voles with that gene will
reproduce faster than the unselfish voles as food became
scarce. Thus, the selfish genes would tend to spread
more quickly and eventually take over. It would't usually
matter that the population was risking starvation, as the
evolutionary process is not prescient. That being said,
there are conditions under which "group selection" might
work, favouring individual restraint, but these conditions
are fairly restrictive and not though to have been
important in evolutionary history.
As to why organisms age, the best evolutionary explanation
so far seems to be that there are trade-offs between early
reproduction and late reproduction. Experiments have shown
that, in at least some species, artificial selection for
organisms that reproduce more at an early age tend to
reproduce less later in life, and visa versa. Thus, if
immortality had no cost it might be advantagious, but it
seems that mortal creatures have higher reproductive rates,
and so tend to be favoured by natural selection. This is
still being investigated, and AFAIK Kiri's worms have not
shown any reduction in early reproduction due to their
lives being extended.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:46:35 -0800
From: "Wayne Ewart"
Subject: Re: Frigate crew questions TML #1848
> Traditionally, in the pre-WWI US Navy the ship's crew is divided into to
> "watches" based upon each side
> of the ship, these being: "The Port Watch" and "The Starboard Watch."
The
> crew members
> were distingushed from each other by having the white stripe of the
uniform
> cuff on the appropriate arm,
> left for "Port" and right for "Starboard." The crew was then divided
based
> upon which hour or ship's activity
> was occurring at the appropriate time.
>
I'll take this even farther. From real world expereance (as taken from the
Canadain Navy which take it from the Royal Navy);
The watches may be broken up into a number of gruops depending on the state
of the ship at the time as follows
1 in 1 watch (all personel employed with a job to do i.e. combat stations/
red alert for all you ST fans)
1 in 2 watch (port and starboard, half the crew on watch/half
sleeping/yellow alert)
1 in 3 watch (red, white, and blue, one 3rd of the crew on watch, remaining
off watch [off watch pers work during day time hours, 0800 to 1600, on
routine maintance/cleaning of ship, green alert)
1 in 4 watch (1st of Port, 1st of Starboard, 2nd of Port, and 2nd of
Starboard, as per 1 in 3 but with only 25% of the crew on watch [may not
have personel on a smaller ship on cover a 1 in 4 watch])
Next you have degress or readyness (when the type of watch is needed)
High Readyness - Action staions (all weapons manned) 1 in 1 watch
Med Readyness - take off/landing, boarding, partol in war area 1 in 2 watch
Low Readyness - normal sailing, peace time 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 watch
Watch rotation (note 1 in 1 has no rotation as all per are being used)(cooks
bring food to pers at thaer stations)
1 in 2 Long watch (galley open one hour before watch change and closed one
hour after)
long moring 0100 - 0800
short morning 0800 - 1300
short first 1300 - 1800
long first 1800 - 0100
1 in 3 or greater watch (galley open from 0700 -0830, 1115-1230, 1700-1730,
and 1800-1830)
Fornoon 0800 - 1200
Afternoon 1200 - 1600
First Dog 1600 - 1800
Last Dog 1800 - 2000
First Watch 2000 - 0000
Middle Watch 0000 - 0400
Morning Watch 0400 - 0800
Each half hour, bells are sounded on the operations deck. The first bell of
the duty day is sounded at 0030,
and for every half hour after that and additional bell is sounded until
0400, when eight bells are sounded.
At this time, the watch changes, and the routine of sounding the bells
starts over again, when a half hour
into the watch, the first bell sounds. This process goes through the
24-hour clock (a Solomani based anachronism.)(NOTE during the Dog watches
bells are sounded as follows 1630 - 1 bell, 1700 - 2 bells, 1700 3 - bells,
1800 - 8 bells [watch chang over] 1830 - 5 bells, 1900 6 - bells, 1930 7 -
bells, and 2000 8 - bells)
Special Watches
Anchor Watch: on board ship while in port
Harbor Watch: off ship while in port (Those on Liberty are not the Harbor
Watch. The Harbor Watch catches the bad boys on Liberty. Sometimes called
Shore Patrol from the old Terran Wet Navy days. Might be called the Star
Port Watch, or Liberty Watch.)
Cold Watch: cold sleep in reserve.
Wayne
wewart@home.com
icq22113294
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/
Give a man fire and he is warm for the night.
Set a man on fire and he is warm all his life.
- - Terry Pratchett
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 13:21:41 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Galanglic
What is Galanglic? Assuming English is the basis, I assume
basic Anglo-Saxon grammar and orthographical rules will dominate,
with innumerable loan words and minor alterations. I'm all
for altering the French-Latin loans.
Does it drop the final 'e'? Do verb conjugations simplify
even further? Does it use the 'y' for 'thorn'? Does it throw
out the 'ph' digraph in favor of 'f'?
Does that mean that the "Magyar" sector is pronounced "Magthar"?
Rob
- ---
What is Galanglic? Assuming Englix is ye basis, assumo
basic Anglo-Sacson grammar and oryograficl rules dominate,
wiy innumerabl loan words and minor alterasions. I'm all
for altering ye French-Latin loans.
Drops ye finl 'e'? Do verb conjugasions simplifi
even furyer? Uses ye 'i' for 'yorn'? Throws
out ye 'f' digraf in favor of 'f'?
Means yat ye "Magiar" sector pronounce "Magyar"?
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 11:19:59 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1852
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > If 2/3 of the kills were also stops, doesn't this mean that 1/3 of
> > those killed kept on coming? :)
>
> "kill" <> "instant kill".
>
> As was explained in a previous post, a wound can kill you within
> minutes, but leave you all too active *during* those minutes. That's a
> "kill" but not a "stop". Get the idea?
Yah, that was actually one of the two possibilities that crossed my
mind. I just liked the idea of instant zombie bullets. :)
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 11:23:52 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Heavy Hyperbole
Chris Seamans wrote:
> I've got one word for the thousands of people who have responded to Jeff's
> comment in a similar fashion to Leonard: hyperbole.
Chris, I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:36:32 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
So "bweela" means, "she was"?
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Black ICE"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
> Jory Earl wrote:
> >
> > What exactly is "bweela"? This single word has been driving me nuts as
its
> > used extensively in Russian pop songs.
>
> It's the past tense of the verb "to be", referring to a feminine (or
> inanimate) subject, in first, second or third person singular. First
> syllable stressed - it. Second syllable stressed - I, you, she, or it
> (note that most Russian inanimate objects have gender).
>
> ObTrav: Compare and contrast grammatical forms used in Galanglic,
> Vilani, and Old High Sylean (25 points).
>
> --
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
> Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 11:29:51 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1852
Eric T. Holmes wrote:
> My question may have been answered before, but could someone
> give me an "algebraic" solution to figuring out the 3D distances for
> stars? Or just point me in the correct direction.
Is this what you're after?
Given the cartesian distances Dx, Dy, Dz between two stars (given
by subtracting the stars' respective X, Y, and Z coordinates from
one another), the straight-line distance between the stars
is given by:
________________________________________
/
D = V (( Dx * Dx ) + ( Dy * Dy ) + ( Dz * Dz ))
That is, the square root of the sum of the squares of each component.
__
( * = multiply, V = square root )
This is just the extension into 3-D of the Pythagorean theorem
2 2 2
( A + B = C )
Although it always surprised me that going into 3D didn't change the
answer to the cube root of the sum of the cubes. :)
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:07:54 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Watches (Was: Frigate crew question)
Eric T. Holmes writes:
>So here's my take for Traveller
>
>Ship's Watches
>
>Graveyard Midnight - 4am 0000 - 0400
>Morning 4am - 8am 0400 - 0800
>First 8am - Noon 0800 - 1200
>Second Noon - 4pm 1200 - 1600
>Dog 4pm - 8pm 1600 - 2000
>Mid 8pm - Midnight 2000 - 0000
If you're modelling your watches on the pre-modern navies you should have two
dog watches:
1st dog watch 4pm-6pm 1600 - 1800
2nd dog watch 6pm-8pm 1800 - 2000
The purpose of these two half-length watches is to switch the watches around
so that they take turns with the other watches. Otherwise the same watch would
always have the Graveyard, First, and Dog watches and the other watch would
always have the Morning, Second, and Mid watches. Since some watches are more
unpopular than others, this would not sit well with the crew (or the officers,
for that matter).
In ships where there are enough watchstanding officers, the captain may not
stand a regular watch, or he may usually take a particular watch. In any case,
officers are not assigned to a particular watch but rotate according to how
many of them there are.
All this pertains to navies of the Napoleonic Era. I don't know much about
modern navies.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Why do they call them dog watches?"
"Why, because they are curtailed."
-- Doctor Stephen Maturin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:17:41 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Languages in YTU
Luther Martin writes:
>...The author of this book claims that only three languages spoken today
>have the critical mass to survive beyond a few hundred years: Chinese,
>English, and Spanish. Even other languages spoken in rich, influential
>countries like Japan and Germany will not last more than a few hundred
>years. So if you are pondering the languages spoken by different cultures
>in YTU, maybe these are the lanugages to use.
Well, leaving aside the possibility that the author is talking through his
hat, the likelihood of which I'm not qualified to judge, it's a very common
SF theme that ethnic groups go off and colonize another world so that they
can preserve their heritage, including their language. I can't recall if it
has ever been spelled out anywhere in canon, but I've always assumed that a
lot of Solomani colonies established during the Rule of Man was ethnic
settlements. As for Earth, the ancestors of the Sword Worlders left Terra
in -420 and their language is a mixture of Icelandic, the other Scandinavian
tongues and Germanic, so it would seem that those languages will survive
for at least another 2000 years in the Traveller universe.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Papazian appeared, disguised as a human being. He
checked quickly to make sure that his head was on
right. 'Nose and toes the same way goes,' he re-
minded himself, and that was how it was.
All his systems were go. His psyche was soldered
firmly to his pineal gland, and he even had a small
soul powered by flashlight batteries."
"Tripout" by Robert Sheckley
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:32:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
In mail you write:
> Ob Trav 1: Traveller has one of the best transliteration schemes I've
> seen... the only thing it doesn't do is separate unitary dipthongs from
> elision pairings of separate sylable's vowels... Which is why I generally
> do them in all caps except for the second (and third) letters of any single
> "Sound" rolled. Or, when I have the option, underline the latter letters of
> a group.
Excuse me? *Where* is this transliteration system found?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:33:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
In mail you write:
> Jeff Zeitlin said:
>
>> > faces, very nice looking dice - that are about two inches on an
>> > edge, and weigh about ninety pounds (avoirdupois, or however
>> > you spell it) each. If someone ever threw them _at_ you, you'd
>> > definitely take 2D6 of damage - hence the name. :)
>
> Leonard Erickson said:
>
>> Sorry, but brass only has a density of around 8. 2 inch cubes are
>> about 125 cc. Which gives a mass of about 1 kg each. or 4.4 lbs for
>>the pair.
>
> I've got one word for the thousands of people who have responded to Jeff's
> comment in a similar fashion to Leonard: hyperbole.
*Ten* pounds would be hyperbole. *Ninety* fails to trigger the
hyperbole detector and instead trips the "Is this guy nuts or what?"
detector.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:36:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sad news...
In mail you write:
> Voyage was a very nice book. In it we meet :
>
> Couerl - tentacled cat-like monster
> Ixtl - scarlet devil-creature
> The Riim - hypnotic bird critters
> and that intelligent but malevolent cloud-creature.
I got distracted and sent that early.
Slans (from "Slan") would be an interesting variant on the Zhodani
peril.
The Null-A books don't have much of use. The Weapons Shops of Isher
could be interesting, especially given the restrictions on the weapons.
They'd drive would be munchkins *nuts*. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:39:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: A catalog of nearby stars, TML #1848
In mail you write:
>
> Fellow Travellers:
>
> All this information on nearby stars is a little dizzying for me.
>
> My question may have been answered before, but could someone
> give me an "algebraic" solution to figuring out the 3D distances for
> stars? Or just point me in the correct direction.
Assuming that the co-ordinates are "cartesian" (ie position along X, Y
and Z axes):
distance between point (X1,Y1,Z1) and point (X2,Y2,Z2):
D = sqrt( (X1-X2)^2 + (Y1-Y2)^2 + (Z1-Z2)^2 )
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:37:21 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: Aging and Dice.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "DaveShayne"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: Aging and Dice.
>
> >Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:42:30 -0900
> >From: "William F. Hostman"
> >Subject: Re Aging and Dice.
SNIPPED------
> >And the "D15" of TNE, at least as I read it, was a D16-1, for equal or
> >greater to avoid loss of attribute.
> >
> >BTW, I picked up some REAL d16's from Mr Newman a while back. I think
> >Bosco's may have some.
>
>
> But I have all of these d8's left over from fantasy gaming
> so why bother with d16's?
>
> David Shayne
>
I believe that should have read two D8's then the minus 1 makes sense. That
way you will have an attribute that is 1-15 and not 0-15. Did I miss
something?
Thom
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 16:52:08 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Real Star Maps
With regard to the 3D star map issues, I counted the number of stars within
given jump ranges from Sol (using the real 3D data in the megastar file),
and from 3 stars in the Spinward Marches (in, of course, 2D). Here are my
results (which may be flawed, I did it rather quickly):
parsecsSol Regina Lysen Pagaton
1 0 3 0 2
2 4 10 2 9
3 11 14 7 18
4 33 22 16 27
5 60 31 30 39
6 93 45 47 55
NOTE: the numbers are cumulative, so there are 7 stars exactly jump 2 from
Regina.
Sol (you are here)
Regina (Regina: 0310)
Lysen (Jewel: 0507)
Pagaton (District 268: 0804)
Predictably, at jump 1-2 the 2D Traveller map tends to have more potential
destinations, and at jump 5-6 the reverse is true. I actually expected
fewer potential destinations than I found for the 2D maps, and the 3D
situation doesn't look that bad. The only problem is the lack of jump 1
routes (IIRC there was just one between any stars within 6 parsecs of Sol).
Of course, one could extend the range of a "jump 1," but even more stars
would be accessable.
Sorry if this is redundant, I have not had time to follow the relevant
threads but I got interested enough to check this out, and I thought that
it might be of interest to some.
Peez
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1853
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, February 2 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1854
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Regards Murder in the TU
Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stops
re: Murders in the TU
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: Real Star Maps
re: Aging and Dice
Dogging the Watch (Was: Watches (Was: Frigate crew question))
Re: Naval Ranks and Roles
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stops
RE: Re Guns
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1853
RE: SETI@home monthly report
Scouts & Assassins - Does anyone have a spare to Trade
Serial Murder in the TU
Re: Serial Murder in the TU
Re: Languages in YTU
Re: Re Guns
missing digests
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Humerous but OT
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:38:03 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Regards Murder in the TU
Before this thread completely expires I would like to add one item. Anthony
Cave Brown in his book "On A Field of Red" relates the following incident.
Some time after the Russian revolution, I believe it was in the 1920's, a
Bolshi of one faction killed a Bolshi of another faction in plain view in
the lobby of a Swiss Hotel. After due consideration it was determined that
the homicide was a "political act normal to their home country" and thus not
murder. As no Swiss citizens were more than inconvenienced and the Swiss
are strictly neutral in such matters, the killer was politely expelled.
This suggests a plot thread where a homicide is committed in a neutral
system by two persons from a second system in the fulfillment of a political
grudge directly connected to their home planetary government. In such
cases the killer might just be requested to leave the planet on the next
convenient ship.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 13:57:06 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 14:26:28 +0200, Antti Lahtinen wrote:
[snip]
> A bullet from the new 5.56x26 mm BOZ pistol round (.224 BOZ) can
> cause HDS if the pistol has long barrel and the target is shot
> at ~20 m range. A Glock 20 can be converted to use BOZ ammunition
> by changing the barrel. In a similar way, a 9 mm Glock 17 can be
> converted to use the new 5.56x20 mm V ammunition (.224/V).
Do you have any more info (URLs, for example) on these two types of
ammunition?
Also, I have heard in the past that hydrodynamic shock is nothing more than
a myth. Now I seriously doubt that whomever wrote this was talking about
the size and shape of wound cavities, since there appears to be sufficient
evidence to support the damaging effects of overpressurization on various
internal organs. But what about the "shock" effect on a victim's nervous
system when their innards are subjected to this shockwave? Is *this*
particular aspect of HDS a myth?
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
Cellular Text Messaging (604-834-0398): http://www.msg.clearnet.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
My last cow just died, so I won't need your bull anymore.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:52:00 +1100
From: "Hughes, Michael"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stops
In Vietnam, apparently any successful shot (as evidenced by blood) by an
Australian was regarded as a kill. Why? They used SLR's (Self Loading
Rifles) which I think are clones of a FN FAL (?) and nicknamed by our fellow
allies as 'the elephant gun'. A 7.62 round that messed up the target
anywhere it hit. And if it got a non mortal wound first time around, the
wreckage of whatever non-vital area usually caused the victim to die from
complications (bleeding, massive shock etc).
I believe we didn't suffer the 'we keep shooting them but they won't fall
down' problem of fanatics charging emplacements 'cause when they got hit
they went down (as opposed to being able to keep forward momentum and stay
on their feet). So I guess it's a Kill and a Stop.
Of course this is all heresay and as I know nothing about RL weaponary I
could be talking out my nether cheeks.
Apologies for the gunnuts on the list if this is the case. But let me end
with this.
Ahem.
Aussie Aussie Aussie. Oi Oi Oi
Michael
Disclaimer; My thoughts, not the department.
Ob Trav; Do Legion Halls or Returned Serviceman Leagues exist in the
Imperium where old soldiers go to swap stories and drink vast quantities?
Maybe the TAS has a deal for them (after-all, so many of the honourary
memberships go to Imperial personnel)
Re: Guns
In mail you write:
> William F. Hostman wrote:
>>
>> ><< Mostmid-caliber rounds (7-10mm) had
>> > one-shot stops around 60-65%; One-shot kills somewhat
less. [I only
>> > memorized a few statistics. Sorry.] >>
>> >
>> >What was the .38 special and the .38 special +P?
>>
>> IIRc, About 62% OSS, and about 50% OSK, With about 2/3rds of the
kills also
>> being stops.
>
> If 2/3 of the kills were also stops, doesn't this mean that 1/3 of
> those killed kept on coming? :)
"kill" <> "instant kill".
As was explained in a previous post, a wound can kill you within minutes,
but leave you all too active *during* those minutes. That's a "kill" but not
a "stop". Get the idea?
- - --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com
<--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com
<--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:58:03 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Murders in the TU
Daniel Phelps wrote:
>This suggests a plot thread where a homicide is committed in a neutral
>system by two persons from a second system in the fulfillment of a
>political grudge directly connected to their home planetary
>government. In such cases the killer might just be requested to
>leave the planet on the next convenient ship.
I don't think "convenient" necessarily belongs in that sentence.
Oh, wait, you mean "convenient" for the government, rather than
for the person, right?
I would think that enough incidents like this would make visitors
from the political grudgeworld less than welcome. Murders tend to
make the tourists nervous, I've heard.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 15:33:40 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Purple for Rich, gray for Industrial, Green for Ag, hmmmm, something
distinctive for poor, yellow, perhaps.
Also a world could be Rich Industrial, Poor Industrial, etc. Perhaps
Rich and Poor could be the strokes on the circles, and the color
indicates the Industrial/Ag/NI classification.
We already have the convention of an open circle indiavcting a desert
world, perhaps tan and blue circles of smaller diameter to indicate
those (that's just overlaying a slightly smaller stroked circle)
Asteroid worlds could be shown with a X through the middle.
Red zones can be shown as the conventional red arc, amber a dashed red
arc.
This sounds cool! Are you going to make the perl script available to us?
(he says...thinking of the nice Postscript color Laserjet down the hall)
OOOHH!!!
Can this do _sector_ sized maps?
(He thinks, even _more_ excitedly, about the large format color inkjet
_next_ to the HP color laser jet!)
Robert Eaglestone wrote:
>
> I have a perl script that generates PostScript subsector
> maps from sector files. Recently, I've discovered the
> magic of color in PostScript files. SO I'm adding some
> color to my subsector maps.
>
> I've got amber arcs for the amber zone, and red circles
> for interdicted zones. What else shall I do?
>
> Can anyone think of a useful way to encode trade
> classifications; for instance, denoting a world as
> being Rich or Industrial or Agricultural?
>
> Agricultural is easy - color the world green (it has to
> have water on it anyhow). But Rich is more difficult...
> gold? And Industrial is even more difficult.
>
> Anyone have suggestions of any kind for subsector maps?
>
> Rob
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:41:54 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: Real Star Maps
To convert the light year data in the near star catalog to parsecs you
probably multiplied by at least 3.26.
So my question is... to how many decimals did you multiply?
I'm just curious as I'm the kind that will multiply pi as 3.141592654
instead of the less retentive 3.14
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ian Ferguson
To: traveller@mpgn.com
Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 3:54 PM
Subject: RE: Real Star Maps
>With regard to the 3D star map issues, I counted the number of stars within
>given jump ranges from Sol (using the real 3D data in the megastar file),
>and from 3 stars in the Spinward Marches (in, of course, 2D). Here are my
>results (which may be flawed, I did it rather quickly):
>
>parsecsSol Regina Lysen Pagaton
>1 0 3 0 2
>2 4 10 2 9
>3 11 14 7 18
>4 33 22 16 27
>5 60 31 30 39
>6 93 45 47 55
>NOTE: the numbers are cumulative, so there are 7 stars exactly jump 2 from
>Regina.
>Sol (you are here)
>Regina (Regina: 0310)
>Lysen (Jewel: 0507)
>Pagaton (District 268: 0804)
>
>Predictably, at jump 1-2 the 2D Traveller map tends to have more potential
>destinations, and at jump 5-6 the reverse is true. I actually expected
>fewer potential destinations than I found for the 2D maps, and the 3D
>situation doesn't look that bad. The only problem is the lack of jump 1
>routes (IIRC there was just one between any stars within 6 parsecs of Sol).
> Of course, one could extend the range of a "jump 1," but even more stars
>would be accessable.
>
>Sorry if this is redundant, I have not had time to follow the relevant
>threads but I got interested enough to check this out, and I thought that
>it might be of interest to some.
>
>Peez
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 17:34:35 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Aging and Dice
Thom Harris wrote:
> But I have all of these d8's left over from fantasy gaming
> so why bother with d16's?
>
> David Shayne
>
>I believe that should have read two D8's then the minus 1 makes sense.
>That way you will have an attribute that is 1-15 and not 0-15. Did I miss
>something?
Remember that one die gives equal probabilities of each face coming
up, while two dice give you a bell curve. 1d12 has an equal chance
of any number from 1 to 12, while 2d6 will show 7 far more often than
2 or 12.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:58:58 -0600
From: "Bont"
Subject: Dogging the Watch (Was: Watches (Was: Frigate crew question))
> >Ship's Watches
> >
> >Graveyard Midnight - 4am 0000 - 0400
> >Morning 4am - 8am 0400 - 0800
> >First 8am - Noon 0800 - 1200
> >Second Noon - 4pm 1200 - 1600
> >Dog 4pm - 8pm 1600 - 2000
> >Mid 8pm - Midnight 2000 - 0000
>
> If you're modelling your watches on the pre-modern navies you should
> have two dog watches:
>
> 1st dog watch 4pm-6pm 1600 - 1800
> 2nd dog watch 6pm-8pm 1800 - 2000
Correct. However, the appropriate phrases are, "Dogging the
Watch" or to "Dog the Watch."
For instance:
"Are we dogging the watch this evening?"
"Yes, go down and dog the watch."
http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/trivia03.htm states :
" Dogwatch
A dogwatch at sea is the period between 4 and 6 p.m, the first
dogwatch, or the period between 6 and 8 p.m., the second dog
watch. [...]
The dogwatches are only two hours each so the same sailors aren't
always on duty at the same time each afternoon. Some experts say
dogwatch is a corruption of dodge watch and others associate
dogwatch with the fitful sleep of sailors called dog sleep, because it
is a stressful watch. But no one really knows the origin of this term,
which was in use at least back to 1700."
I remember an article when I was in the Navy that had a couple
hundred different instances of the word "Dog" and when it was
used. Very seldom did it mean the same same thing twice. IIRC,
the term Dog is used so much because before modern cleanliness,
a lot of navy ships had mascots ... and they were dogs. Supposedly
the got into all kind of trouble but never got punished (they were the
mascots!).
Examples:
"Man, the Chief is dogging the #*%(@ out of me." -> Riding my
case.
"Dog the hatches " -> lock and watertight them.
"You Dog!" -> individual of questionable morals.
"Dog Tags"
"Dogface" -> groundpounder
"She's a dog" -> ugly
"Bulldog" Codeword for Harpoon cruise missile.
"Di*k the dog" Screwing around; being unproductive. "When you
guys are done di*king the dog, I could use a hand over here."
"Dog Wrench" -> a special kind of wrench. Not to be confused with
a Dog-faced serving wench although the comparison has been
used once or twice ...
These are just some of the ones I can remember.
- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)
- - Encrypt your messages!
That way only the government knows what you wrote!
- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!
- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)
- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto
- - Help Stop Forest Fires. Outlaw Matches.
Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
http://www.felixcafe.com/
- - - -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:49:26 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Naval Ranks and Roles
Eric T. Holmes done wrote:
> Fellow Travellers:
>
> Russell Bornschlegel wrote:
>
> > Again IMTU, a 1-3Kton ship would be commanded by a Lt Cmdr, and a
> sub-Kton craft (SDB, courier, or what have you) might be commanded
> by a Lieutenant. For this reason, IMTU, "Skipper" and not "Captain"
> (nor "Commander") is used to describe the ship command position -
> even when the Skipper is a Captain.
> >
>
> I would tend to disagree with calling a man "Skipper," especially to his
> face. He'd be called, "Captain of the Ship," no matter what his rank,
> just as an aircrew has an "Aircraft Commander" and any military
> unit has a "Commander." Put in the appropriate level of the unit
> down to platoon. Tradition lives in this ex-Missile Crew Commander!
Well, that's why I said IMTU. If you prefer, try this:
In at least one imaginable language spoken by at least one imaginable
culture which has a (wet or space) navy, the word for "person in
overall command of a ship" is not the same as any word for a rank in
that navy. That word may be transliterated as "Skipper."
The navies of MTU have managed to overcome some traditions in favor
of reducing ambiguity. I haven't decided what they're gonna do about
grounder-versus-navy "Captain" yet.
- -Russell "The traditions of the Solomani navy? There are three..." B
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:57:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stops
Hughes, Michael writes:
> In Vietnam, apparently any successful shot (as evidenced by blood) by an
> Australian was regarded as a kill. Why? They used SLR's (Self Loading
> Rifles) which I think are clones of a FN FAL (?) and nicknamed by our
> fellow allies as 'the elephant gun'. A 7.62 round that messed up the
> target anywhere it hit. And if it got a non mortal wound first time around,
> the wreckage of whatever non-vital area usually caused the victim to die
> from complications (bleeding, massive shock etc).
Then again, it could just indicate a popular myth of the time.
>
> I believe we didn't suffer the 'we keep shooting them but they won't fall
> down' problem of fanatics charging emplacements 'cause when they got hit
> they went down (as opposed to being able to keep forward momentum and stay
> on their feet). So I guess it's a Kill and a Stop.
People have been able to continue charging forward after mid-ranged cannon
hits, as long as it doesn't take out anything immediately critical to
charging (such as the spine or brain). They almost certainly die later, but
nothing short of massive destruction of the central nervous system is a
guaranteed immediate stop.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 18:06:01 -0500
From: Ethan Henry
Subject: RE: Re Guns
> Except for the fact that the 'paintball' guns used in many police/military
> training rounds are not the same as you and I use on the paintball field.
Woah. I had no idea. Those things are scary... I imagine that it would
be waaaaayyyy to easy for someone with a Bad Idea(tm) to slip a blank
or worse, a live round, into a cartridge full of those things.
Thus, a PC inadvertently kills a police officer during a training
exercise and the adventure begins...
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:20:29 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1853
>Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:37:21 -0500
>From: "Thom Harris"
>Subject: Re: Aging and Dice.
>I believe that should have read two D8's then the minus 1 makes sense. That
>way you will have an attribute that is 1-15 and not 0-15. Did I miss
>something?
>
>Thom
Well I won't speak for anybody else. But I was refering to
an even distribution die 16. 2d8-1 will give a bell curve making
the extreme results too unlikely and the average results
too likely in my opinion.
Assume after many years of Travelling a PC has an ageing
roll for a charecteristic that is 1. If the ageing target is <
the charecteristic than a 0 result will be necesary or everbody
lingers on at just above dead indefinately. If the target # is
equal to or less than the charecteristic a lowest roll of 1
still allows the fatal ageing crisis.
Note rolling D16-1 for <= charecteristic are mathematically the same (just different
ways of phrasing the same probability)
Also if you use a method that generates results from 1 to 15
than either the highest charecteristic will result in an automatic failure
(ie roll <= charecteristic for 1 point loss) or the lowest charecteristic
will result in automatic success(ie rolling < 1 is not possible)
so I go for 1-16 results to keep things random (somewhat)
David Shayne
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Veni, Vidi, Vaca.
I came, I saw, I had a cow
- Bart Caeser
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:47:50 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: RE: SETI@home monthly report
At 4:18 +0000 2/2/00, "Chuck Morford" wrote:
>I'm the new member of the team. I have 3 machines working 24/7 on the
>SETI@Home project and should be able to process 4 to 6 data blocks per day.
I've got a single PPC 603e 200MHz running whenever I'm not using the
Mac - it's taking about forty hours CPU time to process a block, so
it takes 3-4 days realistically.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 23:44:14 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: Scouts & Assassins - Does anyone have a spare to Trade
Hi all,
Does anyone have a spare copy of any the following or wishing to part with?
I would be willing to trade or try to obtain any prefered items.
Paranonia Press - Scouts & Assassins [any edition]
Seeker - Corporate Building
FASA - High Passage #1
Thanks,
Boris
Respond back directly - kafka47@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:50:33 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Serial Murder in the TU
Regards this topic I don't think the suggested link between Jack the Ripper
and a member of the British royal family has been discussed as a cue to a
play able plot. Several years ago a book was published suggesting that Jack
the Ripper was actually Clarence the Ripper that is to say a batty royal
relative. It was suggested that evidence was surpressed at the time by the
powers that be. Does anyone on the other side of the pond remember the full
particulars?
A plot built around this could take several directions. The PC could be
hunting a particularly grisly killer and get warned off/cut off from
information by the powers that be who are protecting/trying to get the Noble
killer under wraps. Alternatively the PCs could be the ones trying to put
the bag on the nut before he kills again and trying to misdirect those
hunting him until they can.
Regards the subject of serial killers in general has anyone tied this to
anti-agathics? Picture a very rich and well connected killer who surfaces
infrequently to kill a set number of victims and once his blood lust is
sated doesn't kill again for 10, 20, or 40 years. The PCs are investigating
a recent set of murders and run a MO match in the sector but forget to set a
time limit or instead of setting it for 10 years mistakenly set it for 100.
They find a series of matchs in the sector spaced out over time going back
as far as they can chase it. Is it a case which crosses generations or one
very long lived perp?
Just some suggestions.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:39:30 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Serial Murder in the TU
From: Daniel Phelps
> Regards the subject of serial killers in general has anyone tied this
> to anti-agathics? Picture a very rich and well connected killer who
> surfaces infrequently to kill a set number of victims and once his
> blood lust is sated doesn't kill again for 10, 20, or 40 years. The
> PCs are investigating a recent set of murders and run a MO match
> in the sector but forget to set a time limit or instead of setting it for
> 10 years mistakenly set it for 100. They find a series of matchs in
> the sector spaced out over time going back as far as they can
> chase it. Is it a case which crosses generations or one very long
> lived perp?
I'd love to do this, but at least two of my players are bona fide fans of
the television show The Night Stalker. There was a plot which was extremely
similar to the one you just described. They'd suspect what was going on
immediately.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 17:36:08 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Languages in YTU
Hans Rancke wrote:
>
> Well, leaving aside the possibility that the author is talking through his
> hat, the likelihood of which I'm not qualified to judge, it's a very
common
> SF theme that ethnic groups go off and colonize another world so that they
> can preserve their heritage, including their language. I can't recall if
it
> has ever been spelled out anywhere in canon, but I've always assumed that
a
> lot of Solomani colonies established during the Rule of Man was ethnic
> settlements. As for Earth, the ancestors of the Sword Worlders left Terra
> in -420 and their language is a mixture of Icelandic, the other
Scandinavian
> tongues and Germanic, so it would seem that those languages will survive
> for at least another 2000 years in the Traveller universe.
>
The author of the book in question (Steven Roger Fischer) is Director of the
Institute of Polynesian Languages and Literatures in Auckland, New Zealand.
Apparently the thing which makes Fischer's POV different from others is that
it addresses the question of technology and its role in re-inventing
languages. He also claims that we are presently in an era of tremendous
linguistic change which is not widely noticed.
I have already ordered a copy from Amazon.com and can't wait to read it.
The the Swords Worlds' language is also interesting to an amateur language
geek like myself. I read a book a few years back, something like
"Archaeology and Language," in which the author discussed research which had
found a fairly reliable way of measuring the distance in time between two
languages. Apparently there is a fairly constant rate of change between
languages over time which come from a common root, like English and German
(both Germanic), or even English and Hindi (both Indo-European), and you can
use this to estimate the time at which the languages became separate. It
would be an interesting (yet pointless) exercise to apply this technique to
the SW language to estimate how far back it split off from other languages.
In any event, are you saying that SF literature and SF games are somehow
in error when it comes to predicting the future!?!?!?!
This book may also cause confusion in hard-core Tekumel fans, for the
languages of Tekumel are based on the premise that some sort of global
change happens in which a strange brew of Mayan, Urdu, and other exotic
languages becomes the common language of the future.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 21:03:58 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re Guns
In a message dated 2/2/00 11:13:01 PM !!!First Boot!!!, egh@klg.com writes:
<< Woah. I had no idea. Those things are scary... I imagine that it would
be waaaaayyyy to easy for someone with a Bad Idea(tm) to slip a blank
or worse, a live round, into a cartridge full of those things.
Thus, a PC inadvertently kills a police officer during a training
exercise and the adventure begins... >>
That's why we were REAL anal retentive on the training range. At city island
(the NYCPD range in the Bronx), G-d help you if you drew a weapon unless the
range office gave the OK, and it was down range. We also only loaded on the
firing line, and only dry fired on the firing range. Our weapons were checked
(to confirm their empty status) before we cleaned them at the end of the
firing cycle (in the cafeteria; hmm no wonder the coffee tasted "funny"...:-)
). I have no doubt the standards haven't changed in the Glock era...
I'm a firm believer in treating ALL weapons as LIVE. I would have a SERIOUS
problem if anyone pointed a "training" weapon at me (or anyone else for that
matter...) unless it had an orange barrel (denoting an inoperative weapon)
and I or a range officer inspected it first. I don't think the paint rounds
are meant to be used with a service weapon firing at a live target, but I
could be wrong. The NYPD didn't use them in 86'.
Ob Trav: YES, there is one here...:-). If your PC's get stupid with weapons,
come down on them HARD via the authorities...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 21:12:01 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: missing digests
Has anybody received any of the following digests:
1817
1818
1821
1840
If so could you forward me copies?
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:35:20 +1100
From: "Hughes, Michael"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Humerous but OT
Last night at 2 am Karen's (SigOthr) framed diploma fell off the wall and
landed on my head, shattering the glass in the process. Being asleep my
first reaction was to scream and get whatever the hell had hit me of my
body, slicing some fingers up pretty badly (I bled like a stuck pig). After
much cleaning and calming we then went back to bed.
This afternoon when Karen asked how the cuts were she said that 'they're the
worst first degree injuries I have ever seen'.
Groan.
Someone shoot me.
Ob Traveller (this is a stretch); Is a member of the Imperium legally
allowed to vomit on someone who makes a terrible joke? I'm sure the Moot has
such a policy.
Michael
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1854
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Traveller-digest Thursday, February 3 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1855
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Sad news...
Instant Zombie Bullets?
Re: Sad news...
re: Guns
Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Humerous but OT
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller [ot]
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
Re GUns and Training
Re: Re GUns and Training
re: Guns and Training
Groundpounders and Law Enforcement (was: Re: Guns and Training)
Re: Groundpounders and Law Enforcement (was: Re: Guns and Training)
RE: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
re: Groundpounders and Law Enforcement (longish)
Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 22:04:54 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford
Subject: Re: Sad news...
The 2 Feb 00 Washington Post style section had a decent tribute to Van
Vogt... It's online at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/2000-02/02/219l-020200-idx.html
It focuses a bit on his involvement with Dianetics, but then again, most
articles on him seem to...
- - Bill
At 10:27 PM 02/01/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
> > Just read this on Slashdot, of all places, and I hadn't seen it
> > mentioned here yet...
> >
> > A.E.Van Vogt died last Wednesday. Another Grand Old Master is gone...
>
>Well, the best "tribute" I can think of is to point out all the stuff
>he wrote that's usable in Traveller, with only minor changes.
>
>His first story "Black Destroyer" involves an alien creature that is
>almost *too* nasty to turn loose on PCs. It's in a lot of anthologies.
>It's included in "Voyage of the Space Beagle", which also has at least
>one other nasty alien.
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
Bill Rutherford
worj@home.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 21:28:37 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Instant Zombie Bullets?
Russell Bornschlegel wrote:
>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > > If 2/3 of the kills were also stops, doesn't this mean that 1/3 of
> > > those killed kept on coming? :)
> >
> > "kill" <> "instant kill".
> >
> > As was explained in a previous post, a wound can kill you within
> > minutes, but leave you all too active *during* those minutes. That's a
> > "kill" but not a "stop". Get the idea?
>
> Yah, that was actually one of the two possibilities that crossed my
> mind. I just liked the idea of instant zombie bullets. :)
Are you planning to play _All Flesh Must Be Eaten_ when it comes out
later this month? One of the settings, entitled "Mein Zombie", involves
German soldiers in World War II being given a serum that reanimates
their bodies upon death. The D-Day invasion is complicated by soldiers
that wouldn't die when shot.
See:
http://www.gamingoutpost.com/features/previews/mein_zombie.shtml
for details. ;-)
ObTrav: Just have your favorite flavor of bad guys develop and use this
serum IYTU. Best bets are the Solomani Confederation and Lucan's
Imperium. Since "All Flesh Must Be Eaten", the K'kree would take an
_exceptionally_ dim view of this development.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:41:28 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Sad news...
I use Slans in my Gamma World/Traveller campaign and I have converted all
the weapons from "Weapon shops of Isher". :) Gotta love those 30,000 cycle
cannons.
As for Null-A, couldn't you have a backwards planet somewhere where the
people all subscribe to that philosophy? Imagine the confusion with a set
of PCs when they land in a Null-A society. :)
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: Sad news...
> In mail you write:
>
> > Voyage was a very nice book. In it we meet :
> >
> > Couerl - tentacled cat-like monster
> > Ixtl - scarlet devil-creature
> > The Riim - hypnotic bird critters
> > and that intelligent but malevolent cloud-creature.
>
> I got distracted and sent that early.
>
> Slans (from "Slan") would be an interesting variant on the Zhodani
> peril.
>
> The Null-A books don't have much of use. The Weapons Shops of Isher
> could be interesting, especially given the restrictions on the weapons.
> They'd drive would be munchkins *nuts*. :-)
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:33:29 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Guns
Sethkimmel wrote:
>Ob Trav: YES, there is one here...:-). If your PC's get stupid with
>weapons, come down on them HARD via the authorities...
Lady Luck is a good "authority" to have come down on them if they
get stupid. Also called "natural selection in action".
The gene selected against is not only the one that leads you to be
stupid with firearms, but also the one that leads you to associate
with people who are stupid with firearms.
Hmmm...which is a more common firearm related accident, a
self-inflicted fatality or a fatal shooting of another person?
Realizing, of course, that the former could be a cover-up of a
suicide, while the latter could be a cover-up of a murder...or
vice-versa.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:49:11 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
So you don't believe in hydrodynamic shock eh? :) Go fill a plastic milk
jug with water and stand off a good distance and shoot it. Armor piercing
rounds will tend to just go through it while hollow point will shred the
entire jug. While the amount of damage attributable to hydrodynamic shock
may not be as much as believed, it does occur.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "James W. Lindsay"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
>
> Also, I have heard in the past that hydrodynamic shock is nothing more
than
> a myth. Now I seriously doubt that whomever wrote this was talking about
> the size and shape of wound cavities, since there appears to be sufficient
> evidence to support the damaging effects of overpressurization on various
> internal organs. But what about the "shock" effect on a victim's nervous
> system when their innards are subjected to this shockwave? Is *this*
> particular aspect of HDS a myth?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 21:51:10 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
At 10:49 PM -0500 2/2/2000, Jory Earl wrote:
>So you don't believe in hydrodynamic shock eh? :) Go fill a plastic milk
>jug with water and stand off a good distance and shoot it. Armor piercing
>rounds will tend to just go through it while hollow point will shred the
>entire jug. While the amount of damage attributable to hydrodynamic shock
>may not be as much as believed, it does occur.
Next, go fill a leather bag with ballistic gelatin and, for good measure,
get some raw meat and maybe some liver and/or kidney and put them in the
bag, too. Then shoot it and see what happens.
From what I understand, the overwhelming wounding mechanism for bullets
is the impact the actual slug has on things in its path. That's not even
always the case as some thing will move out of the way. That shockwave
could serve to displace organs are veins so that they are not in the
direct path of the bullet.
Bolie IV
P.S. Definitely do the jug thing, it's cool. :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 22:12:39 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Humerous but OT
"Hughes, Michael" wrote:
>
<>
>
> This afternoon when Karen asked how the cuts were she said that 'they're the
> worst first degree injuries I have ever seen'.
>
> Groan.
>
> Someone shoot me.
>
> Ob Traveller (this is a stretch); Is a member of the Imperium legally
> allowed to vomit on someone who makes a terrible joke? I'm sure the Moot has
> such a policy.
Hmmm. Reminds me of the story about "cakes and ale" at Oxford (?)
during examinations. In other words, you could include such an obscure
bylaw IYTU, but there may be related, equally-obscure bylaws of which
the vomiter is unaware, prescribing equally unpleasant consequences
(equivalent to the student being fined for failing to wear his sword) to
the ignorant vomiter in question. Naturally, only those who would
invoke their rights under the first bylaw would be expected to abide by
the second bylaw.
Sounds amusing, actually.
To referee a PC's attempt to find such a bylaw (using T4), I would rule
that the player must make two rolls, using the Research skill. The
first would enable the PC to find some obscure rule that allows
him/her/it to perform the desired misdeed with impunity (difficulty
depends on the severity or temerity of the misdeed in question). The
second roll, at one difficulty level higher, would enable the PC to
discover the pitfalls of invoking the first obscure rule.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:46:22 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller [ot]
>Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
>
>What exactly is "bweela"? This single word has been driving me nuts as its
>used extensively in Russian pop songs.
bweets = to be. Archaic. Not used in modern (post revolutionary) russian in
the present tense.
bweel,bweela, bweelo, bweelee, (?) bweelim = was (he was, she was, it was,
they were, we were). Or, more literally, has been. This is correct modern
usage, although, if you aren't familiar with the root, looking it up can be
a problem; many less expensive dictionaries lack the archaic root words
which are used only in limited contexts.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:05:34 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
>In mail you write:
>
>> Ob Trav 1: Traveller has one of the best transliteration schemes I've
>> seen... the only thing it doesn't do is separate unitary dipthongs from
>> elision pairings of separate sylable's vowels... Which is why I generally
>> do them in all caps except for the second (and third) letters of any single
>> "Sound" rolled. Or, when I have the option, underline the latter letters of
>> a group.
>
>Excuse me? *Where* is this transliteration system found?
one technical note on the above: change dipthongs to digraphs and
trigraphs. Mea Culpa.
In MT, in the Referee's companion, page 96, "Sounds List". In CT, the next
to the word generation tables in each of the AM's.
Keep in mind that the examples we have of intelligible alien languages in
traveller are all presented ONLY in transliteration, even tho we have a
description of the native character sets (although no actual table of
sounds and characters) for aslan and Hiver.
And recently, someone developed Bilandin. Which, while I like the idea of
having the fonts available, I'll probably never use them, as the
transliteration is sufficient (if not better). (In one JTAS article, it
adds subscripts for tonal level to Vilani. I sometimes apply these, mostly
for humor value, in my games.)
After all, it is hard enough for me to keep straight the 26+accents of
roman/english, the additional accents for church slavonic, the 43 bukvi of
classical russian, and the few odd characters I've needed as a singer
(mostly from scandinavian and german), plus the 42(#?) of IPA.
Which is why I've not been able to keep the ~70 characters of japanese in
my head. Nor the 24 greek ones (except that most of these are in the
Cyrilic Azbuka).
I've only seriously studied 2 languages: English and Russian. I've dabbled
with Spanish, Church Latin, Italian (Yes they DO differ), German, Japanese,
Polish, Slavonic, Church Slavonic, and even a little french. Vocal Majors
do have so many languages they need to be able to pronounce, and use
dictionaries for....
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:19:54 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re GUns and Training
>In a message dated 2/2/00 11:13:01 PM !!!First Boot!!!, egh@klg.com writes:
>
><< Woah. I had no idea. Those things are scary... I imagine that it would
> be waaaaayyyy to easy for someone with a Bad Idea(tm) to slip a blank
> or worse, a live round, into a cartridge full of those things.
>
>I'm a firm believer in treating ALL weapons as LIVE. I would have a SERIOUS
>problem if anyone pointed a "training" weapon at me (or anyone else for that
>matter...) unless it had an orange barrel (denoting an inoperative weapon)
>and I or a range officer inspected it first. I don't think the paint rounds
>are meant to be used with a service weapon firing at a live target, but I
>could be wrong. The NYPD didn't use them in 86'.
>
Recently, (the past 10-days, in fact) the series "On the Inside" (Discovery
channel or TLC, can't remember which) showed some SWAT training in
California. They were using unomodifed service weapons, but not personal
carry weapons, with training "marking" ammo. Everyone was wearing Class II
or better body armor, and head protection including riot helmets with
face-plates. They were, in fact firing LIVE WEAPONS (as in unmodified,
fully functional, kill a man if you run ball ammo through it) with a
special form of LIVE AMMO (as in throwing a physical projectile down
range), at LIVE people. Just not Ball...
I can see this type of training for SWAT, SEALS, DELTA's, etc. I expect
soon it will become common in prison Crisis Response Teams and Prisoner
Control Teams. (I've heard both terms used in interviews on TV. Others may
be more appropriate or accurate.) Elite units who have need to shoot for
effect regularly SHOULD train as accurately as possible... After all, they
are all volunteers.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:57:37 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re GUns and Training
In a message dated 2/3/00 4:20:25 AM !!!First Boot!!!, aramis@gci.net writes:
<< Recently, (the past 10-days, in fact) the series "On the Inside" (Discovery
channel or TLC, can't remember which) showed some SWAT training in
California. They were using unomodifed service weapons, but not personal
carry weapons, with training "marking" ammo. Everyone was wearing Class II
or better body armor, and head protection including riot helmets with
face-plates. They were, in fact firing LIVE WEAPONS (as in unmodified,
fully functional, kill a man if you run ball ammo through it) with a
special form of LIVE AMMO (as in throwing a physical projectile down
range), at LIVE people. Just not Ball...
I can see this type of training for SWAT, SEALS, DELTA's, etc. I expect
soon it will become common in prison Crisis Response Teams and Prisoner
Control Teams. (I've heard both terms used in interviews on TV. Others may
be more appropriate or accurate.) Elite units who have need to shoot for
effect regularly SHOULD train as accurately as possible... After all, they
are all volunteers. >>
Sounds reasonable to me, but I've noticed that East Coast and West Coast
policing have VERY different philosophies on use of force. LAPD (and other
departments that model themselves after them like Las Vegas Metro) take a
very proactive (almost an aggresive) stance. They are encouraged to use
physical force to control situations. A lot of East Coast departments like
New York and Chicago are much more constrained. As an example, New York calls
its SWAT team ESU (Emergency Services Unit) instead. They are a multipurpose
elite unit that does rescues and other interesting things besides "violence
management". Those guys and gals are GOOD...New York is known for its Hostage
Negotiations Unit. They like to "talk'em to sleep" rather than kick down
doors and spray stun grenades. I was also never trained to use choke holds
and to use my night stick from the knees down only in order to drop violent
offenders. Granted I'm very biased, but I prefer to defuse a situation via
psychology before I have to resort to violence.
There are pros and cons to both schools of policing, but I PERSONALLY prefer
the east coast model. It does fail at times (ala the Bialo case), but I
prefer caution. The LAPD school to me, appears far too paramilitary in style.
I agree with the old cliche' "that a soldier makes a lousy cop, and a cop
makes a lousy soldier". I still think it's nuts to shoot a live weapon at
another person, even with training rounds and body armor....
Ob Trav: Institutional cultural differences in training and philosophies. An
example: the Marines vs the Army (and now I duck the ensuing flamewar....:-) )
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 00:05:27 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Guns and Training
Sethkimmel wrote:
>Ob Trav: Institutional cultural differences in training and
>philosophies. An example: the Marines vs the Army (and now I duck
>the ensuing flamewar....:-) )
How about IMp. Marines doing civilian law enforcement vs Imp. Army
doing the same? As either forces of occupation, or as part of a
disaster relief force?
Both kinds of soldiers may make lousy cops, but would they be lousy
in the same ways?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 23:30:47 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Groundpounders and Law Enforcement (was: Re: Guns and Training)
"Smith, Walter" wrote:
>
> Sethkimmel wrote:
> >Ob Trav: Institutional cultural differences in training and
> >philosophies. An example: the Marines vs the Army (and now I duck
> >the ensuing flamewar....:-) )
>
> How about IMp. Marines doing civilian law enforcement vs Imp. Army
> doing the same? As either forces of occupation, or as part of a
> disaster relief force?
>
> Both kinds of soldiers may make lousy cops, but would they be lousy
> in the same ways?
Bear in mind that the Imperial Army, due to its size, would be more
likely than the Imperial Marines to have large (brigade or larger) units
specifically trained and equipped for law enforcement (a.k.a. "MPs").
Heck, even the US Army has several MP brigades, while, AFAIK, the USMC
has no brigade-sized MP units. Given a paradigm in which the IM are
used primarily for forced-entry operations, while the bulk of IA
strength is deployed on garrison duties, this comparison seems to apply
to Imperial forces.
I see no reason why Imperial Army MPs would be "lousy" cops. Employing
Imperial Marines or Imperial Army infantry for law enforcement, OTOH,
_would_ likely be contraindicated.
Ground combat troops, of any service, would be less than optimal for
disaster relief operations.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 00:40:05 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Groundpounders and Law Enforcement (was: Re: Guns and Training)
In a message dated 2/3/00 5:26:45 AM !!!First Boot!!!, wombat@premier.net
writes:
<< I see no reason why Imperial Army MPs would be "lousy" cops. >>
Military (and I emphasize military) police, have a much different role. I
thought (and I plead complete ignorance here) that MP's were really designed
to control the grunts from getting silly, and control rear areas from
"mischief". Of course if the MPs are in the streets, then martial law has
been declared and the civilian cops have probably been disarmed...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 00:57:34 -0500
From: Glenn Grant
Subject: RE: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
[smip]
>> Hoppe stated that, at the distance of the Imperium (in other words,
>> anywhere in the Orion Spiral Arm) this region is 50 parsecs
>> in thickness.
Mark Preston sez,
>Only one problem with this. We are in the Saggitarius Arm - Orion is
>approximately 1500 light years away from Sol and that is a hell of a
>long way - if you measure out the distance on the maps, you'll find
>that the entire Imperium fits easily into that kind of distance.
Sol is certainly located in the Orion Arm, or "Local Arm" as it is often
called by astronomers. It is not as clearly delineated as the Sagittarius
Arm (to coreward) or the Perseus Arm (to rimward). Thus some astronomers
suggested that it should be demoted to the "Orion Spur", saying it was just
an offshoot of the Perseus Arm.
"But the most recent surveys of molecular clouds in Cygnus and Vela show
that the Orion Arm is in fact every bit as massive as the Perseus Arm" --
Nigel Henbest & Heather Couper, _A Guide to the Galaxy_, Cambridge
University Press, 1994 (a really great book, BTW, with the very best
large-scale galactic maps I've ever seen).
Best,
+ GMG +
Glenn Grant
_Northern Suns: The New Anthology of Canadian Science Fiction_
Edited by David Hartwell & Glenn Grant
now in hardcover from Tor Books
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 21:27:25 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
We are VERY proud to announce that SJ Games has been granted the exclusive
online license to carry on the Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
tradition. The new JTAS is up and running NOW at jtas.sjgames.com. Please
check it out!
With GURPS Traveller line editor Loren Wiseman at the helm, JTAS will be
much like its print incarnation . . . but it will be updated every single
week. It will NOT be a SJ Games house organ. It will cover ALL versions of
Traveller, and review a variety of Traveller-related material. And yes,
Loren is looking for writers!
Like our other online zine, Pyramid, it will be available by subscription
only, for $15 per year (that is, less than a nickel a day). Like Pyramid,
it will also include both live chat and asynchronous discussion areas. And
like Pyramid, it will be done RIGHT (said Steve, modestly).
I am very proud of Pyramid, and I expect JTAS to be every bit as active and
interesting.
For its first two weeks (from now to Feb. 14), access to JTAS will be free.
Please give it a look, and let us know what you think.
- -- Steve Jackson
Enjoy, folks!
_________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
"I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 01:03:29 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Groundpounders and Law Enforcement (longish)
Black Ice wrote:
>I see no reason why Imperial Army MPs would be "lousy" cops. Employing
>Imperial Marines or Imperial Army infantry for law enforcement, OTOH,
>_would_ likely be contraindicated.
I was thinking of MP's as "cops in military uniform". Good point
about the Army having MP's, while the Marines wouldn't (or would
have few).
I was wondering about a situation where line infantry and line
marines both have to perform civil police functions. Say a unit
has taken a planet by surgical commando strike on the organs of
government, including the police, and they have to keep a lid on
the place until sufficient MP's arrive.
Or maybe the police go on strike _en masse_, and the only response
the Governor can come up with *right now* is to station two
Army troopers on each street corner.
Black Ice again:
>Ground combat troops, of any service, would be less than optimal for
>disaster relief operations.
Some of these ground combat troops can fly, or have vehicles that
do (helicopters, planes, grav vehicles). They can see in the dark,
or sometimes even see through walls. They have stocks of medical and
engineering gear, and people who know how to use said gear. They may be
rapid-deployment capable (especially if from off-planet). Many such
forces can support themselves in the field, at least for the duration of
a disaster, with organic supply assets. They are a source of manpower
which is already in an established chain of command, with equipment to
hand, and you probably know right away where you can find them when you
want them.
On some colony worlds, military units may be the only people who have
many (or any!) of these assets available.
If the magnitude of a disaster overwhelms available disaster relief
assets, you use what you can get. I think a hundred "volunteers"
from a nearby army base, with their equipment and organization, would
usually be worth quite a bit more than a hundred volunteers selected at
random from those nearby when the disaster struck.
Agreed, dedicated disaster-relief assets are best, and a colony
administrator should have the maintenance of such assets a core
part of any colony's operational plan. There will be some level
of disaster that is beyond his colony's resources to deal with,
the financial state of the colony determines how high that bar
will be. Some colonies will barely notice the strain of dealing
with a rogue comet on a planetary impact course, while other
colonies will risk abandonment after a single bad structural fire.
This "bar" will be a fuzzy area that includes levels of dependence
on other assets - expected starships in-system that can be
commandeered, for example. A world with a large military presence
may be tempted to expect much of this force when a civil disaster
strikes, especially if the military (for liaision reasons, perhaps)
encourages such thinking.
Of course, that means the civilian population is even more screwed if
there's a war on...war, to a civilian population caught in the crossfire,
is the ultimate disaster - and the disaster relief coordinator who
was depending on military resources to support his department will
find that the grunts are kind of busy right now.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 22:06:45 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
On Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:49:11 -0500, Jory Earl wrote:
> So you don't believe in hydrodynamic shock eh? :) Go fill a plastic milk
> jug with water and stand off a good distance and shoot it. Armor piercing
> rounds will tend to just go through it while hollow point will shred the
> entire jug. While the amount of damage attributable to hydrodynamic shock
> may not be as much as believed, it does occur.
That's *not* what I said at all. What I was talking about was the stunning
effect of the sudden wound cavity expansion on the central nervous system,
sending a person into *immediate* shock. Reread my post.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James W. Lindsay"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 4:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
> >
> > Also, I have heard in the past that hydrodynamic shock is nothing more
> than
> > a myth. Now I seriously doubt that whomever wrote this was talking about
> > the size and shape of wound cavities, since there appears to be sufficient
> > evidence to support the damaging effects of overpressurization on various
> > internal organs. But what about the "shock" effect on a victim's nervous
> > system when their innards are subjected to this shockwave? Is *this*
> > particular aspect of HDS a myth?
>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
Cellular Text Messaging (604-834-0398): http://www.msg.clearnet.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
My last cow just died, so I won't need your bull anymore.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:21:57 +1100
From: "Hughes, Michael"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
What I meant to infer was that the impact of the round was so great that it
knocked the target off their feet. If you've been struck by a high powered
bullet and knocked to the ground, then it's going to be very hard to get up
and keep going - no matter what inspires you (drugs, religion, carton of
cold, cold, cold VB after two days out bush).
As for cannon hits, I guess it depends if you're in the path of the shock
wave (which I believe can turn your insides into jelly). That's going to
stop you too...
Michael
> I believe we didn't suffer the 'we keep shooting them but they won't fall
> down' problem of fanatics charging emplacements 'cause when they got hit
> they went down (as opposed to being able to keep forward momentum and stay
> on their feet). So I guess it's a Kill and a Stop.
People have been able to continue charging forward after mid-ranged cannon
hits, as long as it doesn't take out anything immediately critical to
charging (such as the spine or brain). They almost certainly die later, but
nothing short of massive destruction of the central nervous system is a
guaranteed immediate stop
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1855
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Traveller-digest Thursday, February 3 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1856
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Grunts as Cops
re: Galanglic
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Humerous but OT
RE: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stops
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stops
Re: Languages in YTU
Re: Re Guns
RE: Serial Murder in the TU
JTAS Online
Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff about guns)
Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller [ot]
Re: Aging and Dice
RE: UNCLASSIFIED Stops
RE: Re Guns
re: Aging and dice
re: Stops
re: Groundpounders and Law Enforcement (longish)
re: Aging and dice
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stops
Re: Real Star Maps
Re: Real Star Maps
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:15:50 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Grunts as Cops
>I see no reason why Imperial Army MPs would be "lousy" cops. Employing
>Imperial Marines or Imperial Army infantry for law enforcement, OTOH,
>_would_ likely be contraindicated.
>
>Ground combat troops, of any service, would be less than optimal for
>disaster relief operations.
If you apply an MP unit to policing an area where they are appropriate in
numbers, MP's should do fine as cops, especially if they have CID backup.
Likewise, medical, civil engineering (Construction) and combat engineering
units should do wonders in a disaster relief if you have enough.
In Policing cases, however, what seems to be typical is you attach a squad
or fireteam of infantry to each MP or pair of MP's. You have Force Recon or
Rangers trying to be SWAT... even when detectives are needed, not SWAT.
[Sorry, I've had REALLY bad experiences with the 501st Airborne... locally
called the 5-oh-worst Chairborne Grangers... they all seem to think they
are Gods Gift to women, Drinking to a Stupor is a Good Idea, Local Cops
don't call 1SGT's/CO's for Drunk and Disorderly conduct, and Police Actions
call for overwhelming firepower. Oh, and they tend to like being able to
check out an M16 to go Moose hunting; they USED to be allowed to do this.]
In DR situations, it seems to be similar: Each Engineering team gets a
section (Half-Platoon) attached... for base labor.
When you dilute the training levels and skill levels that much, you wind up
with mistakes. Often serious and or fatal ones.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 00:47:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Galanglic
>From: "Robert Eaglestone"
>What is Galanglic? Assuming Englix is ye basis, assumo basic
>Anglo-Sacson grammar and oryograficl rules dominate, wiy
>innumerabl loan words and minor alterasions. I'm all for
>altering ye French-Latin loans.
Some of the source material for Bloodtree Rebellion (GDW's very
enjoyable game of the Vietnam War set in the Far Future on a
planet far away which we should play some Saturday at Kristian
Miller's; I have a copy somewhere) what the hell was I talking
about?
Oh, yes, some of the source material for Bloodtree Rebellion
plays with Far Future English. It's very good.
There is also a science fiction story from the late 19th century
about an English public school student (O level, I think they
say) who travels 100 years into the future to find the greatest
horror imaginable: English spelling has been made perfectly
regular.
Kenji is really the one to address linguistics issues, but I
will note (and maybe he'll join in) that we know a fair amount
about language shift in English from 1000 years ago, so we
should be able to make an educated guess about it 1000 years
hence. Of course 3000 years, interstellar travel, and
interaction with the Vilani are factors that complicate the look
forward. And we have little idea of what the language that
developed into English was like 3000 years ago.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 00:01:08 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Humerous but OT
Hughes, Michael" wrote
> Subject:
>
> Last night at 2 am Karen's (SigOthr) framed diploma fell off the wall and
> landed on my head, shattering the glass in the process. Being asleep my
> first reaction was to scream and get whatever the hell had hit me of my
> body, slicing some fingers up pretty badly (I bled like a stuck pig)
> This afternoon when Karen asked how the cuts were she said that 'they're the
> worst first degree injuries I have ever seen'.
>
> Groan.
This was her Bachelors degree right? Because if it was a Master
or a Doctorate that would be at least a second or third degree
injury.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:13:03 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stops
> On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> Hughes, Michael writes:
> > In Vietnam, apparently any successful shot (as evidenced by blood) by an
> > Australian was regarded as a kill.
Any succesful shot by an Australian was cause for a national celebration
wasn't it ?
" If you take the total expemditure by the NZ government on the Vietnam war
and divide it by the number Viet Cong killed by Kiwis, it comwes to around
$70,000 per kill. Quite expensive, until you take into acount the number of
Australians
we killed, then the cost per kill drops dramatically. "
Part of a monologue by a well-known NZ comedian in the mid-seventies.
> > Why? They used SLR's (Self Loading
> > Rifles) which I think are clones of a FN FAL (?)
Yep, that's right. I almost qualified as a marksman on one once.
The wooden stock ones were heavier than the plastic stock ones, but much
nicer to fire. Damn gas spring had a tendency to fly away if you weren't
careful.
You could fire them full auto as well, I think you could even get a bipod
for them.
RNZAF was going to sell them off real cheap to us when they replaced with
Steyr's, until some arms dealers kicked up a stink about unfair competition
or something.
> > and nicknamed by our fellow allies as 'the elephant gun'.
> > A 7.62 round that messed up the target anywhere it hit.
> > And if it got a non mortal wound first time around,
> > the wreckage of whatever non-vital area usually caused
> > the victim to die from complications (bleeding, massive shock etc).
>
> Then again, it could just indicate a popular myth of the time.
A posible reason for this was likley the relatively poor medical facilities
of the opposing side and the wonderful humid conditions for bugs to breed in
wounds.
> People have been able to continue charging forward after mid-ranged cannon
> hits, as long as it doesn't take out anything immediately critical to
> charging (such as the spine or brain).
Brain's not critical to charging.
People have kept charging with the head removed.
Didn't change direction much though.
> They almost certainly die later, but nothing short
> of massive destruction of the central
> nervous system is a guaranteed immediate stop.
Anything that seperates the legs from the torso is pretty much a guaranteed
stop. Or at least they're easy to run away from after that.
Unless they're the Black Knight. In which case, they'll bite your knee caps
off.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 01:37:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stops
In mail you write:
> Hughes, Michael writes:
>>
>> I believe we didn't suffer the 'we keep shooting them but they won't fall
>> down' problem of fanatics charging emplacements 'cause when they got hit
>> they went down (as opposed to being able to keep forward momentum and stay
>> on their feet). So I guess it's a Kill and a Stop.
>
> People have been able to continue charging forward after mid-ranged cannon
> hits, as long as it doesn't take out anything immediately critical to
> charging (such as the spine or brain). They almost certainly die later, but
> nothing short of massive destruction of the central nervous system is a
> guaranteed immediate stop.
I'll settle for transferring enough momentum to the target to knock him
down. While he's getting up, I can either leave or take a better shot. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 01:41:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Languages in YTU
In mail you write:
> This book may also cause confusion in hard-core Tekumel fans, for the
> languages of Tekumel are based on the premise that some sort of global
> change happens in which a strange brew of Mayan, Urdu, and other exotic
> languages becomes the common language of the future.
One *easy* method would have been a major nuclear exchange between
Northern Hemisphere nations. That leaves Africa, South America, and
Australia to restore civilization. Of course, South Africa and
Australia would catch a few nukes, too. So "English" might not figure
in the mix
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 01:45:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Guns
In mail you write:
> I'm a firm believer in treating ALL weapons as LIVE. I would have a SERIOUS
> problem if anyone pointed a "training" weapon at me (or anyone else for that
> matter...) unless it had an orange barrel (denoting an inoperative weapon)
> and I or a range officer inspected it first. I don't think the paint rounds
> are meant to be used with a service weapon firing at a live target, but I
> could be wrong. The NYPD didn't use them in 86'.
>
> Ob Trav: YES, there is one here...:-). If your PC's get stupid with weapons,
> come down on them HARD via the authorities...
Don't bother with the authorities. Come down on them via Murphy.
If they make a habit of waving guns around with safeties off, roll for
accidental discharges.
And once in a while having them shooting and notify one of them that
he's pulled the trigger and *nothing* happened...
It could be a hang fire, it could be a casing that failed to extract.
In the latter case, you can just dig it out unless it's *really*
jammed. Inn the former case, there's a chance it'll go off as you are
trying to eject it. With bad results for the person trying to "clear"
the weapon, as well as anyone in front of the barrel.
And *neither* is something you want to deal with during a fire fight...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:48:08 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: Serial Murder in the TU
Chris Seamans wrote:
> From: Daniel Phelps
> > Regards the subject of serial killers in general has anyone
> > tied this to anti-agathics? Picture a very rich and well
> > connected killer who surfaces infrequently to kill a set
> > number of victims and once his blood lust is sated doesn't
> > kill again for 10, 20, or 40 years. The PCs are investigating
> > a recent set of murders and run a MO match in the sector but
> > forget to set a time limit or instead of setting it for 10
> > years mistakenly set it for 100. They find a series of matchs
> > in the sector spaced out over time going back as far as they
> > can chase it. Is it a case which crosses generations or one
> > very long lived perp?
>
> I'd love to do this, but at least two of my players are bona
> fide fans of the television show The Night Stalker. There was a
> plot which was extremely similar to the one you just described.
> They'd suspect what was going on immediately.
It also bears some resemblance to "Stretch", an X-Files episode
(season 1). X-Files creator Chris Carter has stated he was a big
Night Stalker fan and that that series inspired him to create the
X-Files.
In Stretch, the murderer killed 3 or 4 people every 70 years,
eating their livers, and then hybernating. You could change this
to say that someone discovered a "poor-man's" antiagathic which
includes fresh human liver as one of its key ingredients.
(Though this is starting to sound slightly vampiric.)
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 06:39:31 -0500
From: John Macek
Subject: JTAS Online
It was written:
> We are VERY proud to announce that SJ Games has been granted the exclusive
> online license to carry on the Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
> tradition. The new JTAS is up and running NOW at jtas.sjgames.com. Please
> check it out!
Cool! This is really cool news!
A question, if I may, for either you or Loren. Will JTAS subscribers be
allowed access to the playtest files for GT?
John
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:05:30 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor"
Subject: Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff about guns)
The pathophysiology of firearm wounds is in a little bit of flux.
There used to be a big debate on momentum vs. kinetic energy as the
primary determinants of wound effect.
Certainly the three obvious mechanisms of damage are :-
- - due to the path taken by the missile
- - compression waves in the tissues around the missile track
- - due to structures displaced by the missile (e.g. bone fragments).
James Lindsay wrote :-
> But what about the "shock" effect on a victim's nervous
> system when their innards are subjected to this shockwave? Is *this*
> particular aspect of HDS a myth?
I'm not sure what you are referring to.
'Shock' is defined _medically_ as a state where cardiac output cannot
meet the metabolic demands of the tissues.
Neurogenic shock occurs when peripheral vascular resistance falls e.g.
secondary to a spinal injury, or with a vasovagal episode ('fainting').
From an engineering standpoint, peripheral nerve tissue is reasonably
resilient ; it can tolerate a modest amount of stretch. The spinal cord,
on the other hand, has the consistency of tinned fish.
People don't tend to fall over when shot unless the damage is massive
(although one wonders about the conditioning effects of exposure to
Hollywood's product).
Similarly, cardiovascular and respiratory reflexes are well preserved
until oxygenation is compromised, usually secondary to blood loss -
hypovolaemic shock.
The stress response is an amazing thing.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:58:47 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller [ot]
Yes I tried looking it up..no dice. Like when I tried to translate
"sta-boiy". It is really "s taboi" meaning "with you".
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "William F. Hostman"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller [ot]
> >Subject: Re: Cool, ein dt. Traveller
> >
> >What exactly is "bweela"? This single word has been driving me nuts as
its
> >used extensively in Russian pop songs.
>
> bweets = to be. Archaic. Not used in modern (post revolutionary) russian
in
> the present tense.
>
> bweel,bweela, bweelo, bweelee, (?) bweelim = was (he was, she was, it was,
> they were, we were). Or, more literally, has been. This is correct modern
> usage, although, if you aren't familiar with the root, looking it up can
be
> a problem; many less expensive dictionaries lack the archaic root words
> which are used only in limited contexts.
>
> William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
> interface!"
> Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
> 533
> aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++
P+
> IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
> pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:51:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton
Subject: Re: Aging and Dice
Howdy!
Walt wrote:
>
> Remember that one die gives equal probabilities of each face coming
> up, while two dice give you a bell curve. 1d12 has an equal chance
> of any number from 1 to 12, while 2d6 will show 7 far more often than
> 2 or 12.
>
No. The distribution of two dice is closer to a bell curve than one
die, but it is decidedly not gaussian.
The values 2-12 appear 1 2 3 4 5 6 5 4 3 2 1 times. The curve is two
straight lines that meet at 7. As you roll more dice, the curve
begins to more resemble a bell curve.
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:51:11 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: UNCLASSIFIED Stops
Hughes, Michael WROTE:
> In Vietnam, apparently any successful shot (as evidenced by
> blood) by an Australian was regarded as a kill. Why? They used
> SLR's (Self Loading Rifles) which I think are clones of a
> FN FAL (?) and nicknamed by our fellow allies as 'the elephant
> gun'.
Trivia: The term SLR was used by the British Army (and apparently
the Australian Army too) to refer to the FN FAL. It was not a
clone, just an alternative name. Today the British Army have
replaced the FN FAL with the SA-80 ... which they call the IW
(Individual Weapon). Why they use their own terms for weapons is
anyone's guess. Along with the SLR there was the GPMG (General
Purpose MachineGun) but I forget what the actual weapon was.
ObTrav: Given the wide range of similar weapons that must exist
in the 3I would 3I army types use generic terms ("assault rifle",
"gauss rifle", etc) or use specific names ("Instellarms LK-351",
etc)?
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:01:58 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M."
Subject: RE: Re Guns
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ethan Henry [mailto:egh@klg.com]
>
> Woah. I had no idea. Those things are scary... I imagine that it would
> be waaaaayyyy to easy for someone with a Bad Idea(tm) to slip a blank
> or worse, a live round, into a cartridge full of those things.
>
> Thus, a PC inadvertently kills a police officer during a training
> exercise and the adventure begins...
Nope. Although you can use your own firearm during training, it requires a
complete barrel change. The paintball barrel will not chamber a regular
firearm round.
vargr1 UPP-8D9B85
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ vargr1@jcn1*com
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." dmoody@bridge*com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:58:22 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Aging and dice
Michael Houghton wrote:
>> Remember that one die gives equal probabilities of each face coming
> up, while two dice give you a bell curve. 1d12 has an equal chance
> of any number from 1 to 12, while 2d6 will show 7 far more often than
> 2 or 12.
>
>No. The distribution of two dice is closer to a bell curve than one
>die, but it is decidedly not gaussian.
>The values 2-12 appear 1 2 3 4 5 6 5 4 3 2 1 times. The curve is two
>straight lines that meet at 7. As you roll more dice, the curve
>begins to more resemble a bell curve.
I don't know what Gaussian means, but my calculations show that when
you roll two six sided dice, you can expect a 2 about 2.8% of the time
and a 7 about 16.7% of the time. Having one occurrence happen
six to seven times more often than another qualifies to me as "far more
often".
Simple probability. Out of the 36 possible results, one of them totals up
to "2" and six of them total up to "7". What do you think I'm missing?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:00:52 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Stops
Peter Trevor wrote:
>Why they use their own terms for weapons is
>anyone's guess. Along with the SLR there was the GPMG (General
>Purpose MachineGun) but I forget what the actual weapon was.
Maybe the naming convention was based on the government contract,
rather than the manufacturer-given name of the weapon that won said
contract?
Just a wild guess, I've never purchased a firearm for government use.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 10:13:23 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: re: Groundpounders and Law Enforcement (longish)
At 01:03 AM 2/3/00 -0500, you wrote:
[snip]
>Some of these ground combat troops can fly, or have vehicles that
>do (helicopters, planes, grav vehicles). They can see in the dark,
>or sometimes even see through walls. They have stocks of medical and
>engineering gear, and people who know how to use said gear. They may be
>rapid-deployment capable (especially if from off-planet). Many such
>forces can support themselves in the field, at least for the duration of
>a disaster, with organic supply assets. They are a source of manpower
>which is already in an established chain of command, with equipment to
>hand, and you probably know right away where you can find them when you
>want them.
>
>On some colony worlds, military units may be the only people who have
>many (or any!) of these assets available.
>
>If the magnitude of a disaster overwhelms available disaster relief
>assets, you use what you can get. I think a hundred "volunteers"
>from a nearby army base, with their equipment and organization, would
>usually be worth quite a bit more than a hundred volunteers selected at
>random from those nearby when the disaster struck.
>
[snip]
>Walt Smith
In Canada, we call this "Aid to Civil Power". Any level of
government can turn around, call up the Top Brass and say "we cannot handle
this". Then the military moves in. A couple of classic example of AtCP in
recent years were the ice storms in Quebec and the Red River flood in Alberta.
In the later case, the Navy took practically every small-boats Cox'n
in the country and mobilized them... the Army were filling sand bags, the
Engineers were building diverts, the Navy had RHIBS and Zodiacs with
hand-held echo sounders... Arguably the largest peace-time mobilization in
CF history. I remember one picture where three guys were in a Zod passing
food and sand bags down to a half-dozen Army guys who were maintaining a
sand-bag wall over 10' tall around someone's home... they had a ladder up
to the top where the guys in the Zod were... it was amazing.
Bottom line is that the military has the discipline and training to
operate normally under conditions that make newspaper heroes out of
civillans. As a result, I would suggest it would be negligent of any Colony
Administrator or ruling governement in the 3I to *not* have a pre-determined
line of resort that led to invoking the Imperial equivalent of AtCP.
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
"Reality Error in Progress....
....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Cyberpunk: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020
Traveller: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller
AD&D: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:06:47 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Aging and dice
Walt Smith wrote:
>Simple probability. Out of the 36 possible results, one of them totals up
>to "2" and six of them total up to "7". What do you think I'm missing?
Never mind, I know what I was missing. My statement that two dice
provide different probabilites than one *wasn't* what Michael was
correcting me on, it was my erroneous use of the term "bell curve"
for a situation that isn't one.
Thanks Michael.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 10:16:44 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
At 05:21 PM 2/3/00 +1100, you wrote:
>What I meant to infer was that the impact of the round was so great that it
>knocked the target off their feet. If you've been struck by a high powered
>bullet and knocked to the ground, then it's going to be very hard to get up
>and keep going - no matter what inspires you (drugs, religion, carton of
>cold, cold, cold VB after two days out bush).
>
>As for cannon hits, I guess it depends if you're in the path of the shock
>wave (which I believe can turn your insides into jelly). That's going to
>stop you too...
>
>Michael
>
>
The concept of a bullet impact hitting hard enough to knock someone
down on impact force alone is, on evaluation, not possible. One of Newton's
Laws says that pushing one way at a certain force requires pushing equally
in the opposite direction. So, for a bullet to have enough energy to knock
a man down by impact forces alone implies that it must have enough *recoil*
to knock the *firer* down.
Now, I've fired some pretty impressive toys, and you can't easily
*carry* anything that chambers a round big enough to knock the firer
down.... =)
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 10:20:45 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stops
At 01:37 AM 2/3/00 PST, you wrote:
>> People have been able to continue charging forward after mid-ranged cannon
>> hits, as long as it doesn't take out anything immediately critical to
>> charging (such as the spine or brain). They almost certainly die later, but
>> nothing short of massive destruction of the central nervous system is a
>> guaranteed immediate stop.
>
>I'll settle for transferring enough momentum to the target to knock him
>down. While he's getting up, I can either leave or take a better shot. :-)
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
To quote a Sgt Major who taught us Navy types the dirty business of
combat hand-gunning:
"One pull slows him, two pulls stops him and three pulls guarantees
him. I like guarantees."
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:28:13 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Real Star Maps
Eric Henry writes:
>To convert the light year data in the near star catalog to
>parsecs you probably multiplied by at least 3.26.
>So my question is... to how many decimals did you multiply?
I divided by 3.26.
>I'm just curious as I'm the kind that will multiply pi as
>3.141592654 instead of the less retentive 3.14
Yes, I too tend to use way more decimal places than are
necessary, but I just don't know them for a parsec.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:37:57 -0600
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: Re: Real Star Maps
oops. I forget when i'm translating from parsecs to light years and vice
verse
divide of course is the correct term
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ian Ferguson
To: traveller@mpgn.com
Date: Thursday, February 03, 2000 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Real Star Maps
>Eric Henry writes:
>>To convert the light year data in the near star catalog to
>>parsecs you probably multiplied by at least 3.26.
>>So my question is... to how many decimals did you multiply?
>
> I divided by 3.26.
>
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1856
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Traveller-digest Thursday, February 3 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1857
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: Groundpounders and Law Enforcement
re: Guns
Re: Serial Murder in the TU
RE: recoil
Re: Real Star Maps
Re: Re Guns
re: Galangic
RE: Stops
THE SLR & GPMG
Re: Languages in YTU
RE: THE SLR & GPMG
RE: THE SLR & GPMG
Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Watches (Was: Frigate crew question)
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Re: Re GUns and Training
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: JTAS Online
Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 06:32:37 PST
From: "will richards"
Subject: re: Groundpounders and Law Enforcement
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 01:03:29 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Groundpounders and Law Enforcement (longish)
Black Ice wrote:
>I see no reason why Imperial Army MPs would be "lousy" cops. Employing
>Imperial Marines or Imperial Army infantry for law enforcement, OTOH,
>_would_ likely be contraindicated.
Define "lousy" Please.
MP's are a very unusuall unit at least in the US army.
they perform Body gaurd duty for high ranking individuals.
Because of this they can get access to training that other combat support
units might not get. (sniper school, and artillery school etc)
or whatever they convince the General to give them.
For a combat Support unit they:
a team Carries more firearms than an equivilent sized infantry team.
Can call for fire.
Have access to several trained snipers.
Are trained for Urban warfare. (some units better than others)
Some units even have EMT's (Medics) but these are usually reserve
units, and they may or may not have the nessary first aid gear for every
situation.
Also
Thier main mission is not law enforcement but rather
Battle feild circulation control, making sure beans and bullets get to
where they are supposed to.
POW Ops: making sure the pow's are searched and stored properly.
Rear area security: this is not law enforcement but actually patrolling
the rear looking for breakthrews, enemy paratroopers,
Sabatoures. once located they are to harrass them until help arrives.
But once the fight is over they remain on station until the local civilians
can take over law enforcement etc.
Oh and two points of advice about MP's
1: The Last thing you ever want to do is force an MP to pull out
his pen to start paper work. They hate paperwork with a
vengence but will make sure yours will firmly plant you in
prison.
2: if you have an MP in your compound and you are not keeping an
Eye on him then you deserve to loose what he takes.
(While most are ok, not all MP's are trustworthy)
- --->
>I was thinking of MP's as "cops in military uniform". Good point
>about the Army having MP's, while the Marines wouldn't (or would
>have few).
>
Marine MP's do more POW work that anything else in combat situations.
marines beeing smaller units themselves have fewer MP's.
- ---->
>I was wondering about a situation where line infantry and line
>marines both have to perform civil police functions. Say a unit
>has taken a planet by surgical commando strike on the organs of
>government, including the police, and they have to keep a lid on
>the place until sufficient MP's arrive.
Usually a large unit of Grunts (Brigade+) will have some MP's accompany
them. Also "freelance" MP's will not be far behind to ensure that the
materiel flows properly into/outof the starports and Harbors.
Will
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:34:40 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: re: Guns
>Hmmm...which is a more common firearm related accident, a
>self-inflicted fatality or a fatal shooting of another person?
>Realizing, of course, that the former could be a cover-up of a
>suicide, while the latter could be a cover-up of a murder...or
>vice-versa.
I'm not up on the current stats in other countries, but the accident rate
here in the US has been on the decline for over a decade. That's with
overall firearm ownership going up. Children are actually (based on CDC
stats) 4 times more likely to accidentally to accidently drown in a 2
galleon bucket and 8 time more likely to drown in the bathtub than die from
a firearm related accident.
What's really dangerous is selling crack on somebody else's corner.
I've already run my players though a variation that one. One dark and
stormy night on Phlume, they took out a drug lab while the local
authorities were conveniently looking somewhere else.
Next time they come through that neck of the Marches, they will find that
things have escalated a bit...
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship it! Ship it
and let them flee like the dogs they are! -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:44:25 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp"
Subject: Re: Serial Murder in the TU
From: "Chris Seamans"
> From: Daniel Phelps
>
> > Regards the subject of serial killers in general has anyone tied this
> > to anti-agathics? Picture a very rich and well connected killer who
> > surfaces infrequently to kill a set number of victims and once his
> > blood lust is sated doesn't kill again for 10, 20, or 40 years. The
> > PCs are investigating a recent set of murders and run a MO match
> > in the sector but forget to set a time limit or instead of setting it for
> > 10 years mistakenly set it for 100. They find a series of matchs in
> > the sector spaced out over time going back as far as they can
> > chase it. Is it a case which crosses generations or one very long
> > lived perp?
>
> I'd love to do this, but at least two of my players are bona fide fans of
> the television show The Night Stalker. There was a plot which was extremely
> similar to the one you just described. They'd suspect what was going on
> immediately.
It's also a plot from Star Trek Classic, and has also been used in
X-Files. Hard to pull over on a TV-literate player, but if you can
tell the tale well, I don't think they'll mind the plot. :)
Happy Travellin',
Jason
=============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV
(512)458-7111 ext. 1+3375
Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes. For more info, check out:
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm
==============================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:54:03 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: recoil
Michel Vaillancourt writes:
>Now, I've fired some pretty impressive toys, and you can't easily
>*carry* anything that chambers a round big enough to knock the
>firer down.... =)
Of course, that depends on the firer. I remember a small
lady firing a 12 gauge shotgun and being caught by the
instructor. I suppose that a PGMP (or even a LAG?) would
entail enough recoil to knock down an unbraced firer.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:54:47 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Real Star Maps
Eric Henry writes:
>oops. I forget when i'm translating from parsecs to light years
>and vice verse
>divide of course is the correct term
I knew what you meant :)
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:26:10 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re Guns
In a message dated 2/3/00 2:03:37 PM !!!First Boot!!!, DMoody@bridge.com
writes:
<< Nope. Although you can use your own firearm during training, it requires a
complete barrel change. The paintball barrel will not chamber a regular
firearm round. >>
Ahh; that's better....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 15:58:06 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: re: Galangic
To make matters worse, there are official dialects to Galangic (read: the
entry in the Imperial Encycopedia). I imagine also that Galangic is a
composite language taken from all the languages of Terra that were actively
involved in the Interstellar Wars. To get a sense on how a language can be
distorted read (the book) Anthony Burgurss' A Clockwork Orange.
I have also often employment in my campaign Streetwise skill to applied to
a criminal dialect, akin to cockney for English or Thieves Cant (a la AD&D).
Understandable, in terms of the words but the meanings they carry quite
different. Perhaps, our English colleagues can help expand this topic.
Eg. Bird = Woman
Crack = Break a safe
Cracker = someone upright
Guv = someone of the upper class
etc.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:20:03 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: Stops
Walter Smith wrote:
> >Why they use their own terms for weapons is
> >anyone's guess. Along with the SLR there was the GPMG (General
> >Purpose MachineGun) but I forget what the actual weapon was.
>
> Maybe the naming convention was based on the government contract,
> rather than the manufacturer-given name of the weapon that won said
> contract?
>
> Just a wild guess, I've never purchased a firearm for government use.
Possibly. But its also possible that the term "SLR" was dreamt
up by some Whitehall bureaucrat who figured that soldiers would
get confused by "FN FAL" since "it doesn't mean anything" whereas
"SLR" does. Remember that many UK beuraucrats and politicians
have a very low opinion of their fellow man. A few weeks ago the
Home Secretary (who is in charge of law and order issues) stated
he believed the general public were inherantly violent and needed
to be controlled. So much for civil liberties! (Not wishing to
go OT here.)
Now here's a question: what is the general attitude of the 3I
nobility towards the common masses? Do they (in general) see
them as citizens or subjects? And how much do they care for
their well-being. Individual nobles will vary: I think Strephon
sees the masses as subjects, but feels responsible for them; yet
conversely Dulinor sees the masses as citizens, but cares less
for them. I think Norris sees them as citizens , and Lucan sees
them as mere peasants.
But what about the Imperial beuracracies? Does the IISS see
itself as a service organisation providing for the needs of the
people, or does it think the people need protecting from
themselves.
Defining these relationships (for the 3I and others) could
significantly colour the PCs dealings with officials.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:30:02 +0000
From: CGS
Subject: THE SLR & GPMG
The SLR was not a normal FAL. It was a made to imperial measurments not
metric and most importantly the British version was not capable of
automatic fire (though thre was apparently a much disapproved of way of
circumventing this).
The Canadians tried a supprt version of it without success.
THE GPMG is a version of the FN MAG, a version of which the Americans
use on their panzers. I do not know if it is metric or imperial.
Both were excellent and reliable weapons, the FN MAG is probably the
best MG in the world apart from the MG42 and its child the MG3.
The SA80, IW or proberly the L85 has been a disaster.
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:00:41 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Re: Languages in YTU
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) puts forth into the Ether:
> > This book may also cause confusion in hard-core Tekumel fans, for the
> > languages of Tekumel are based on the premise that some sort of global
> > change happens in which a strange brew of Mayan, Urdu, and other exotic
> > languages becomes the common language of the future.
>One *easy* method would have been a major nuclear exchange between
>Northern Hemisphere nations. That leaves Africa, South America, and
>Australia to restore civilization. Of course, South Africa and
>Australia would catch a few nukes, too. So "English" might not figure
>in the mix
This is what H. Beam Piper did in his future history books.
He didn't nuke SA & Australia heavily, and he did allow for a heavy
influence of German from Argentina. :-)
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a
free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed. -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:02:46 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: THE SLR & GPMG
Michael wrote:
> The SLR was not a normal FAL. It was a made to imperial
> measurments not metric and most importantly the British version
> was not capable of automatic fire (though thre was apparently a
> much disapproved of way of circumventing this).
Which measurements are different ... IIRC they both fire standard
7.62Nato rounds.
As to the auto fire aspect, I stand corrected.
> The SA80, IW or proberly the L85 has been a disaster.
According to a TA friend of mine the problems with the SA80 are
primarily due to extremely poor production standards (especially
in the initial shipments). Some of the plastic bits would rattle
and/or drop off if the weapon was shaken violently. Apparently
this situation is improving.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:38:57 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M."
Subject: RE: THE SLR & GPMG
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]
> Which measurements are different ... IIRC they both fire standard
> 7.62Nato rounds.
The differences are how the engineering drawings are labeled and the milling
machines are run. FALs were built either as metric or Imperial guns. Parts
for one probably don't fit on the other. The magazines are different in the
front locking lug, etc.
Plus, the Israelis have their own version.
For more about FAL measurements go to
http://www.fnfal.com/falfiles/fall1a1.html
vargr1 UPP-8D9B85
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ vargr1@jcn1*com
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." dmoody@bridge*com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:07:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
Jory Earl writes:
> So you don't believe in hydrodynamic shock eh? :) Go fill a plastic milk
> jug with water and stand off a good distance and shoot it. Armor piercing
> rounds will tend to just go through it while hollow point will shred the
> entire jug. While the amount of damage attributable to hydrodynamic shock
> may not be as much as believed, it does occur.
While hydrodynamic shock will do a fine job of detonating sealed containers,
there is almost no part of the body which resembles this sort of container
(the skull does somewhat). When dealing with something held together in a
manner resembling how a human body is held together, hydrodynamic shock is
irrelevant.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:07:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
James W. Lindsay writes:
>
> That's *not* what I said at all. What I was talking about was the stunning
> effect of the sudden wound cavity expansion on the central nervous system,
> sending a person into *immediate* shock. Reread my post.
Whether any such stunning effect actually exists is open to debate, however.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:17:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
Hughes, Michael writes:
> What I meant to infer was that the impact of the round was so great that it
> knocked the target off their feet. If you've been struck by a high powered
> bullet and knocked to the ground, then it's going to be very hard to get up
> and keep going - no matter what inspires you (drugs, religion, carton of
> cold, cold, cold VB after two days out bush).
Your average 7.62mm bullet will adjust the speed of a typical human by around
0.1 meters/second. Given typical running speeds, it only takes about 50 shots
to stop a charging human. Of course, 50 shots will probably stop that human
for other reasons long before the impact slows them down.
Michel Vaillancourt writes:
> The concept of a bullet impact hitting hard enough to knock someone
> down on impact force alone is, on evaluation, not possible. One of
> Newton's Laws says that pushing one way at a certain force requires
> pushing equally in the opposite direction. So, for a bullet to have enough
> energy to knock a man down by impact forces alone implies that it must have
> enough *recoil* to knock the *firer* down.
> Now, I've fired some pretty impressive toys, and you can't easily
> *carry* anything that chambers a round big enough to knock the firer
> down.... =)
Sure you can. I'm quite confident that a man-portable recoilless rifle or
mortar packs enough momentum to do it ;)
Leonard Erickson writes:
> I'll settle for transferring enough momentum to the target to knock him
> down. While he's getting up, I can either leave or take a better shot. :-)
Bullets do not knock people down due to momentum transfer. They knock people
down due to the body's reaction to being wounded, or due to psychological
effects from people who 'know' that you fall down after being shot. Note that
various drugs and mental states will prevent knockdown.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:17:20 -0000
From: "Mark S Peace"
Subject: Re: Watches (Was: Frigate crew question)
There would be no need to rotate watches in space - there are no
daylight/temperature changes to same some watches more popular than others.
Of course this might not be the case on planetary bases, which brings up an
interesting question - would you still stick with 24 hour days?
I imagine if a planet has, say, a 26 hour day then this would be used
locally, but it might be rather more difficult for say 16 hour or 35 hour
days. Could the locals have adjusted to it over the centuries, or would
they use a 24 hour day? (This could make sense, and a world would only need
one time zone.)
Mark.
>If you're modelling your watches on the pre-modern navies you should have
two
>dog watches:
>
>1st dog watch 4pm-6pm 1600 - 1800
>2nd dog watch 6pm-8pm 1800 - 2000
>
>The purpose of these two half-length watches is to switch the watches
around
>so that they take turns with the other watches. Otherwise the same watch
would
>always have the Graveyard, First, and Dog watches and the other watch would
>always have the Morning, Second, and Mid watches. Since some watches are
more
>unpopular than others, this would not sit well with the crew (or the
officers,
>for that matter).
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 11:28:57 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Oh damn, go there now and sign on...it's free for 2 months and $15 /yr
afterwards.
It's GOOD folks!
(My JTAS' is back, and it's gonna be goo-ood, oool laaa hey now my JTAS
back!";-)
Keith Johnson wrote:
>
>
>
> We are VERY proud to announce that SJ Games has been granted the exclusive
> online license to carry on the Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
> tradition. The new JTAS is up and running NOW at jtas.sjgames.com. Please
> check it out!
>
> With GURPS Traveller line editor Loren Wiseman at the helm, JTAS will be
> much like its print incarnation . . . but it will be updated every single
> week. It will NOT be a SJ Games house organ. It will cover ALL versions of
> Traveller, and review a variety of Traveller-related material. And yes,
> Loren is looking for writers!
>
> Like our other online zine, Pyramid, it will be available by subscription
> only, for $15 per year (that is, less than a nickel a day). Like Pyramid,
> it will also include both live chat and asynchronous discussion areas. And
> like Pyramid, it will be done RIGHT (said Steve, modestly).
>
> I am very proud of Pyramid, and I expect JTAS to be every bit as active and
> interesting.
>
> For its first two weeks (from now to Feb. 14), access to JTAS will be free.
> Please give it a look, and let us know what you think.
> -- Steve Jackson
>
>
>
> Enjoy, folks!
> _________________________________________________________
> Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
> Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
> Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
> "I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
> IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
> _________________________________________________________
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:02:38 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Re GUns and Training
Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
>
> There are pros and cons to both schools of policing, but I PERSONALLY prefer
> the east coast model. It does fail at times (ala the Bialo case), but I
> prefer caution.
More to the point, when the 'East Coast Model' fails, a' la the Bialo
and the other case currently under trial, it fails due to corrupt
individuals rather than institutionalized dogma.
However, to place the blame fairly, the _entire_ 'LA school of
policing', should more properly be called the 'Darryl Gates school of
policing', as all of those policies, indeed, even the concept of a
paramilitary SWAT team itself is his brainchild. (He originally wanted
to call it the 'Special Weapons Assault Team', but at the request of
saner minds on the force, changed it to 'Special Weapons and Tactics'. I
saw him interviewed regarding it, it was pretty clear that he accepted
the change grudgingly.)
It has pretty much lead (or helped to lead) to many of the problems that
LA has had over the years (foex...Watts burned, Harlem didn't...the
_first_ time Watts burned. Come to think of it, it was his fault the
_second_ time, too...That pretty much sums it up.)
Of course this is _not_ to say that the NYPD has never had it's share of
problems....
ObTrav...of course, this could lead to another rating, closely tied to
the Law Level, of the police forces. We could range from New Orleans
style institutionalized corruption to Robo-Cop style paramilitary
orientation.
Here's a novel idea...roll two dice ;-)
2-D where 2 are extremely corrupt, but buying them off is easily done, 3
Corrupt and brutal, 6,7,8 (the range of US police forces in general) on
up to D where they're extremely efficient "I 'YAM the LAW!"
authoritarians, unyielding to any situation, any infraction results in
an arrest, no matter who it is. Robots would work in this
case...('Brillo' anyone?;-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:10:10 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>
> Now, I've fired some pretty impressive toys, and you can't easily
> *carry* anything that chambers a round big enough to knock the firer
> down.... =)
A 4-Gauge Elephant Gun. That'll do it!
Actually, 'enough force to knock you down' is actually quite doable...it
depends on the exact stance the person's in at the moment of impact.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 11:07:16 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
At 09:32 AM 2/3/00 -0500, you wrote:
>------------------------------
>
> > We are VERY proud to announce that SJ Games has been granted the exclusive
> > online license to carry on the Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
> > tradition. The new JTAS is up and running NOW at jtas.sjgames.com. Please
> > check it out!
>
>Cool! This is really cool news!
>A question, if I may, for either you or Loren. Will JTAS subscribers be
>allowed access to the playtest files for GT?
This is what Steve had to say on the subject:
We discussed this . . . a LOT . . . and finally decided to keep all the
playtests in Pyramid. Reasoning:
1. We already have a deal with the Pyramid subscribers. It includes
playtests. JTAS subscribers might LIKE to have playtests, as well as
universal peace and free chocolate, but if it's not set up that way from
the beginning, nobody is getting ripped off. Someone who is ONLY interested
in Traveller playtest, and in no other feature of JTAS, should just
(continue to) subscribe to Pyramid.
2. Running playtest in two places is hugely inconvenient to the editors and
lead playtesters. Mirroring one playtest area for two zines and two sets of
passwords would drive Jackie to distraction. We looked at this, briefly,
and then came to our senses. So duplicating the feature is right out.
I won't get mad if an occasional playtest discussion slops into JTAS, and
JTAS will be the place where we do most of our grognard-specific market
research, but we will not duplicate the actual playtest here.
_________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
"I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 12:07:58 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> One *easy* method would have been a major nuclear exchange between
> Northern Hemisphere nations. That leaves Africa, South America, and
> Australia to restore civilization. Of course, South Africa and
> Australia would catch a few nukes, too. So "English" might not figure
> in the mix
The problem with nuclear war as a handwave is that the effects, although
quite serious, are not as devastating as people think. For example,
according to one study (http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa009.html), the worst
case scenario for an attack on the US was about 30% US casualties and 35% of
US industry destroyed. This is an appaling level of death and destruction,
but does not come close to eliminating the US for good. Studies which I have
read estimate a 90% recovery from a full-scale nuclear war in about 30
years.
The unknown effects of things like nuclear winter could increase the number
of casualties, but these effects cover areas much greater that the intended
target of the attack. Studies which I have read estimate recovery from the
environmental effects of a nuclear war in about 10 years. These studies are
of dubious reliability, though. The authors always seem to have a political
agenda which they aim to help with their study.
You probably have to throw in biological agents and other really bad stuff
to reasonably eliminate a large country like the US. I have never read a
study which estimates the damage such an attack could cause.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 16:21:06 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
At 12:10 PM 2/3/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>>
>
>> Now, I've fired some pretty impressive toys, and you can't easily
>> *carry* anything that chambers a round big enough to knock the firer
>> down.... =)
>
>A 4-Gauge Elephant Gun. That'll do it!
>
>Actually, 'enough force to knock you down' is actually quite doable...it
>depends on the exact stance the person's in at the moment of impact.
>
>--
>Bruce Johnson
Hi, Bruce!
Look, improper bracing with any long arm will get you into some sort
of trouble... one lass broke her collar bone when she fired a 3-shot out of
an FN when we did basic... didn't have it in against her shoulder properly
and it jack-hammered her.
The elephant gun will only reduce the margin of error that is
tolerable before you wind up in trouble. Otherwise, it'd come equipped with
a bi-pod and instructions that said "Anti-LAV Weapon" =)
--Michel
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1857
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Traveller-digest Thursday, February 3 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1858
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
JTAS Chat with Loren to be held tonight
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
re: Galangic
Re: Pretty colors on the subsector map
RE: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
IFP: Art and Graphics
Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Re: Re GUns and Training
Re: Frigate crew questions TML #1848
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: JTAS Online
RE: Nuclear war effects
Intriguing offer
Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
Symbols for medical facility
Re: Dice
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:30:27 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:07:56 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson wrote:
> James W. Lindsay writes:
> >
> > That's *not* what I said at all. What I was talking about was the stunning
> > effect of the sudden wound cavity expansion on the central nervous system,
> > sending a person into *immediate* shock. Reread my post.
>
> Whether any such stunning effect actually exists is open to debate, however.
Thank you.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
Cellular Text Messaging (604-834-0398): http://www.msg.clearnet.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
URA Redneck if while mowing lawn, you find three cars.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 11:57:12 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: JTAS Chat with Loren to be held tonight
When: Thursday, Feb 3, 7pm CST (1am GMT)
Who: Loren Wiseman
Topic: Welcome to JTAS! Here's what to expect . . .
= Connecting to Brubek's =
Brubek's is the chat area of JTAS. It's open to members 24 hours a day, 7
days a week. Drop in and talk any time. From time to time, there will be
special chat guests.
You must be a current subscriber to log in. For the next two weeks, it's
free. The server is located at jtas.sjgames.com 8900. Our chat server is
actually a MOO server; if you're new to MOO, you may want to print out our
page of basic commands
(http://jtas.sjgames.com/chat/commands.html). You'll also want to download
a MUD client to connect to the MOO, or use our Java Client to connect via
your web browser (http://jtas.sjgames.com/chat/).
Want to host a chat? Send e-mail to jtas@sjgames.com, telling us who you
are, when you can chat, and what topic you'd like to talk on.
_________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
"I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:40:58 -0000
From: "Stuart Ferris"
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Should we really be happy that another Traveller institution has fallen into
the hands of SJG?
If it is only going to cater for SJG canon then I am not.
Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@virgin.net
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 13:49:29 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Luther Martin wrote:
>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> > One *easy* method would have been a major nuclear exchange between
> > Northern Hemisphere nations. That leaves Africa, South America, and
> > Australia to restore civilization. Of course, South Africa and
> > Australia would catch a few nukes, too. So "English" might not figure
> > in the mix
>
> The problem with nuclear war as a handwave is that the effects, although
> quite serious, are not as devastating as people think. For example,
> according to one study (http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa009.html), the worst
> case scenario for an attack on the US was about 30% US casualties and 35% of
> US industry destroyed. This is an appaling level of death and destruction,
> but does not come close to eliminating the US for good. Studies which I have
> read estimate a 90% recovery from a full-scale nuclear war in about 30
> years.
Read that article carefully. The authors cite those figures, then
mention that even the authors of the study (done at SRI in 1974)
considered the numbers to be wildly optomistic.
This was also a study of a 'limited' nuclear exchange, with a total of
about 800 MT used on US targets (about a third of the Soviet Union's
total arsenal).
What are the odds of a limited exchange (in which some 200 American
cities are targeted) staying that way?
Puleeze!
The CATO institute is also politically neutral like the Vatican endorses
condoms...you can find farther right wing think tanks, but they're not
taken as seriously as the CATO Institute by the windbags on the Hill.
This study was designed to produce the results of 'Awww shecks, we could
manage a lil' ol' nukleeer war jest fine!'
This article was written in 1982, when the Evil Empire's SuperIvans were
going to overrun Europe, then swim across the Atlantic and kill all the
red-blooded Amurrican Men in hand to hand combat so they could steal our
women...
They didn't _start_ to seriously consider that some 90% of the available
medical personnell were going to be at various ground zeros themselves,
and the remaining 10% would probably not be able to get to where they
were needed.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:54:48 EST
From: WriteFool@aol.com
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
In a message dated 2/3/00 2:43:13 PM Central Standard Time,
stuart.ferris@virgin.net writes:
<< Should we really be happy that another Traveller institution has fallen
into
the hands of SJG?
If it is only going to cater for SJG canon then I am not.
Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@virgin.net
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm
>>
According to the site they are looking for material for all Traveller eras,
although putting things into GT stats as well as the original system would
also be appreciated.
And given the efforts that Pyramid puts into running articles on other
systems (not perfect mind you, but pretty good for a "house" periodical), I
think we can expect coverage of the entire milieu.
There is one way to guarantee diversity though...send in your articles.
Michael Breen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 16:00:12 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: re: Galangic
A good reference for an English dialect is "The Great Train Robbery" by
Michael Crichton.
It nicely shows the difference between the classes and highlights the
specialized terms of the criminal class of the day.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Ferret: Chaos with fur, claws and an odd smell.
http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 14:20:34 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the subsector map
Ok, I've done some more twiddling, and here's what I've got:
Interdiction and Amber Zone codes (standard)
dry world - empty planet
wet world - grey planet
water world - blue planet
Ri world - purple planet
Ag world - green planet
Ri + Ag world - gold planet!
In world - "In" over planetary disc
Ni world - "Ni" over planetary disc
This is pretty cool. At a glance, I can look at, say, Lunion,
and tell what's going on there.
I see the industrial worlds: Lunion, Strouden.
I see the breadbaskets: Shirene, Capon.
I see the rich worlds: Ianic, Adabicci, Spirelle.
Byret is a Goldmine: both rich and agricultural.
Whew! I can't imagine how I got along without this!
Let's have a look at Corridor...
WOW! This is wonderful. I see Lobok is rich, and
there are a handful of breadbaskets within 6 parsecs,
such as Khikhuushir, Raiga, Dywosik, and Lysio.
But there don't seem to be any Industrial worlds out
there. Hey, I need a better way to tag a world Industrial,
without coloring the planetary disc. Got any ideas?
Maybe put a black dot in the middle or something??
Oh well...
Now all I need to do is plug in my quick-and-dirty
traffic rules and draw the routes... different
thicknesses denoting traffic levels:
light green = freight; light red = passengers
thickness (pixels) volume
1 10 dtons/week
2 100 dtons/week
3 1000 dtons/week
4 10k dtons/week
5 100k dtons/week
6 1M dtons/week
7 10M dtons/week
Or something like that...
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:42:52 -0000
From: "Mark Preston"
Subject: RE: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
I shall take a look at that if I can find the book at the library. My
information came from the Britannica (blame something else) which
states that "galactic co-ordinates are measured relative to the
Sagitarrius Arm, which includes the solar system and the Great Rift
beyond which lies the centre of the galaxy". Many thanks.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> Glenn Grant
> Sent: 03 February 2000 05:58
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: RE: An explanation for the 2D jumpspace maps in Traveller
>
>
> [smip]
> >> Hoppe stated that, at the distance of the Imperium (in
> other words,
> >> anywhere in the Orion Spiral Arm) this region is 50 parsecs
> >> in thickness.
>
> Mark Preston sez,
>
> >Only one problem with this. We are in the Saggitarius Arm
[snip]
>
> Sol is certainly located in the Orion Arm, or "Local Arm"
> as it is often
> called by astronomers. It is not as clearly delineated as
> the Sagittarius
> Arm (to coreward) or the Perseus Arm (to rimward). Thus
> some astronomers
> suggested that it should be demoted to the "Orion Spur",
> saying it was just
> an offshoot of the Perseus Arm.
>
> "But the most recent surveys of molecular clouds in Cygnus
> and Vela show
> that the Orion Arm is in fact every bit as massive as the
> Perseus Arm" --
> Nigel Henbest & Heather Couper, _A Guide to the Galaxy_, Cambridge
> University Press, 1994 (a really great book, BTW, with the very best
> large-scale galactic maps I've ever seen).
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:36:51 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty"
Subject: IFP: Art and Graphics
If anyone on the list is inclined to produce are or a logo for Ilelish Free
Press materials (the fiction anthology and adventures-to-follow), or to
discuss contribution to the first book (a bit late but....) or subsequent
volumes, please contact me off-list.
Regards
MJD
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 13:31:06 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
On Thu, 03 Feb 2000 13:49:29 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
[snip]
> They didn't _start_ to seriously consider that some 90% of the available
> medical personnell were going to be at various ground zeros themselves,
> and the remaining 10% would probably not be able to get to where they
> were needed.
Not only that, but many of the brightest minds a country has to offer often
live in large population areas, meaning that they would be included in that
"30% US casualties" figure. Also, the "35% of US industry destroyed" would
probably be made up mostly of High Tech industry anyway. Coupled with the
above, a 90% recovery in 30 years sounds highly optimistic.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
Cellular Text Messaging (604-834-0398): http://www.msg.clearnet.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
URA Redneck if while mowing lawn, you find three cars.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:38:42 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re GUns and Training
In a message dated 2/3/00 7:04:05 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:
<< it fails due to corrupt
individuals rather than institutionalized dogma. >>
In this case, poor supervision, and a lowering of standards. The unit they
were assigned did so well, it was expanded too fast, and accepted individuals
who originally would not have been accepted into it...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:52:39 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: Re: Frigate crew questions TML #1848
Andy Akins came up with the following:
>>
>>> I figure three watches, each 8 hours long. The work duty would be one
watch on,
>>>one watch "rest", and one watch "sleep". The rest watch would be when
people
>>>could study, relax, and work on miscellaneous things (both work and
relaxing
>>>related).
>>>
>
>>I'd like to discuss this a little further.
>>
>>Traditionally, in the pre-WWI US Navy the ship's crew is divided into to
>>"watches" based upon each side of the ship, these being: "The Port Watch"
and
>"The Starboard Watch." The crew members were distingushed from each other
by having the white stripe of the uniform cuff on the appropriate arm, left
for "Port" and right for "Starboard." The crew was then divided based upon
which hour or ship's activity was occurring at
>the appropriate time.
>>
>>So here's my take for Traveller
>>
>>Ship's Watches
>>
>>Graveyard Midnight - 4am 0000 - 0400
>>Morning 4am - 8am 0400 - 0800
>>First 8am - Noon 0800 - 1200
>>Second Noon - 4pm 1200 - 1600
>>Dog 4pm - 8pm 1600 - 2000
>>Mid 8pm - Midnight 2000 - 0000
>>
>>Each half hour, bells are sounded on the operations deck. The first bell
of
>>the duty day is sounded at 0030, and for every half hour after that and
additional bell is
>>sounded until 0400, when eight bells are sounded.
>>At this time, the watch changes, and the routine of sounding the bells
starts
>>over again, when a half hour into the watch, the first bell sounds. This
process goes
>>through the 24-hour clock (a Solomani based anachronism.)
>>
>>Eric
While in the Navy I stood four hour watches for years, when I was lucky
enough to stand watch on three section rotation. Other time I stood six hour
Port and Starboard watches. This typically means if you stand the 0400-0800
you work all day, from 0800 to 1600 and then stand watch from 1600-2000.
About 2200 or so the ship holds a GQ drill and no one gets to bed until 0100
or so. The next night you do a nighttime refueling at 2300 and everyone's up
until 0500, and then you go on watch.
These methods of standing watch are seeped in navy tradition dating back to
the rum and lash days of sail. Only those lucky enough to only need three
hours sleep a day to function operate at top efficiency. Everyone else runs
in a continuing spiral of decreasing efficiency. Only pilots are allowed the
privilege of mandatory rest time. They have to be allowed to get a full
night's sleep because mistakes due to exhaustion are too expensive. We can't
have a 14 million dollar airplane be damaged because the pilot made a
mistake because he was tired. But a deck officer who's only had six hours
sleep in the last three days can give an order to a helmsman whose only had
six hours sleep in the last three days. And if they run a 24 billion dollar
ship aground their careers are over.
I would hope that by the time we have interstellar spacecraft we will have
learned enough about human physical limits to know that people work better
if they get enough sleep. Hell maybe in the next twenty years even the navy
will learn it and go to a more reasonable work schedule, commercial ships
did decades ago.
(As an aside: The only time I got enough sleep was during the Gulf War.
There were no drills to get us up in the middle of the night. If we had
night ops planned we slept during the daytime. We kept things shipshape and
kept all equipment running, but we never sent people to do busy work just
because it was "working hours." )
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:16:59 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
From: Stuart Ferris
> Should we really be happy that another Traveller institution has fallen
> into the hands of SJG?
You always could have negotiated with Marc to get your hands on the license
and publish a new JTAS yourself.
Further, it hasn't "fallen" into anybody's hands.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 15:24:27 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>
> Hi, Bruce!
> Look, improper bracing with any long arm will get you into some sort
> of trouble... one lass broke her collar bone when she fired a 3-shot out of
> an FN when we did basic... didn't have it in against her shoulder properly
> and it jack-hammered her.
> The elephant gun will only reduce the margin of error that is
> tolerable before you wind up in trouble.
This came from a friends experience with the thing. He decided that he
should be braced when firing this gun, since it was so big, and so, put
his back up against a tree, raised the monster to his shoulder, and
fired.
Then he fell down screaming in pain because he'd put his shoulder
between that stock and a hard place ;-)
He admits, however, it wasn't one of his brighter moves...
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 17:23:36 -0500
From: John Macek
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
Rev. Keith wrote:
>
> This is what Steve had to say on the subject:
>
>
> We discussed this . . . a LOT . . . and finally decided to keep all the
> playtests in Pyramid. Reasoning:
>
Thanks. Found my answer when I subb'ed this morning.
Thus far, I like the direction it seems to be going in.
John
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 17:26:40 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Nuclear war effects
Luther Martin writes:
>The problem with nuclear war as a handwave is that the effects,
>although quite serious, are not as devastating as people think.
Almost certainly true.
>These studies are of dubious reliability, though. The authors
>always seem to have a political agenda which they aim to help
>with their study.
Indeed, and the lack of hard data is limiting as well.
(which is a Good Thing)
>You probably have to throw in biological agents and other really
>bad stuff to reasonably eliminate a large country like the US. I
>have never read a study which estimates the damage such an attack
>could cause.
Lots of death, but the general lack of damage to the
infrastructure would help to facilitate recovery. Another
issue to consider is the political and sociological impact
of these sorts of conflicts. It is not hard to imagine
that survivors might not want to return to the status quo
that did this to them.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 15:29:59 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Intriguing offer
Not quite Trav-related (except by chance)
American Science and Surplus (which is a truly _amazing_ online store,
up there with Archie McPhees) has 'assorted RPG materials' $5/5 items.
See:
http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?section=1
I've ordered three bags, and will let everyone know what I get when I
get it...
They have a $10 minimum, but it's really hard to not spend money there
;-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:48:27 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
Dear Folks -
I have scanned, cleaned up and posted the "Traveller Q&A"'s from Digest 11 and
Digest 15 to my website [==> Tavonni Repair Bays ==> scroll to the bottom].
(FYI, I'm working on Digest 12 - containing Joe's MT combat example - but I need
to re-scan the diagrams. I'll let you know when it's done.)
Here are the sections relating to robot brains aboard starships.
BTW, apart from the problems outlined below, has anyone thought of the obvious?
(I've been away for 2 days - my daughter's first day at pre-school!! so I don't
know the current arguments in this thread.)
The obvious reason for not using robot pilots: the Pilots Union (or Guild).
Depending on how things work in YTU, starship personnel will carry more or less
weight when it comes to approving these sort of radical changes to ship design.
Since widespread robot piloting would put the human^k^k^k non-metallic pilots
out of a job, I can see the pilots uniting in a campaign to prevent robots from
being used (apart from in jump torps, of course - no, don't flame me, I only
allow them as TL 16 experimental, OK? ;-) ;-).
For a real-life example, the "guards" on the XPT (one of those "fast trains",
only since it runs on the same lines the old steam trains used, I prefer to
think of it as semi-fast! ;-) in NSW jacked up when the Powers That Be decided
to abolish their jobs. After all, you only need one driver aboard - he just hits
a dead-man switch every 30 seconds to keep the train going - right? Well, they
said, What if the driver collapses? Sure, the train will stop after 30 seconds.
But who will drive it then?? etc etc.
They kept their jobs.
Anyway, here's Joe's take on the matter (seems he was asked it often enough to
need two goes at it!):
==================================================
How do robot brains differ from starship computers? - J. K.
Robot brains tend to be more specialized and less deterministic (i.e., more
synaptic). Robot brains are also optimized for size, since they must often fit
in a very tiny space.
Starship computers must monitor, self-test, diagnose, and control literally
millions of complex components. Because of this, the more predictable (and
cheaper) deterministic computers are used. Some synaptic processing exists in
starship computers at the higher tech levels (13+), but the synaptic results are
always cross-checked by the deterministic portion. - Joe D. Fugate Sr.
[Taken from "Traveller Q&A", Travellers' Digest issue 11, Digest Group
Publications, Boise, ID, USA, 1988, pp 38-39.]
How do robot brains and starship computers differ? Can robot programs be loaded
into a starship computer? - D.T.
Robot brains and starship computers are different. Different enough, in fact,
that program transfer between the two involves, as a minimum, several formidable
tasks.
Modern day analogies often help to explain why things in MegaTraveller are the
way they are, so let's look at an analogy. Consider the most advanced
automobiles on the road today. They incorporate several microprocessors. Are the
programs in automobile microprocessors interchangeable with the ones on my
personal computer? in other words, can I load Space invaders into my car's
engine computer, and play Space invaders in my car while the engine is not
running? Of course not.
So it is with robot brains and starship computers. Each is designed for certain
specific functions. The robot brain is designed to be a very small, efficient
processor of abstract concepts (very good at pattern recognition, essentially),
while a starship computer is more of a traditional, "dumb but reliable",
distributed processor. Program interchange between the two is not impossible,
but does involve many technical tasks requiring a good array of skills. I'd say
a series of formidable tasks involving mechanical, electronics, robotics, and
computer skill, as well as education would be called for. Since each such
interchange is usually a custom job, several of the tasks will be uncertain.
This means that while you may make the mods, you'd dam well better test them
several times first Uncertain tasks are great for this kind of in-game research
and development by characters. The players must retry the die rolls until they
feel the results they are getting are reliable. We've used this technique a few
times in our own playtests, with good results. You should see the players squirm
when the process they are developing is critical, results are inconsistent, and
time is running out! It's great fun.
Okay, you've managed (with much effort) to transfer your starship's navigation
program to your robot's brain. Good. Are you sure you'll trust your life and
ship to the first jump vector generated by your robot? - Joe D. Fugate Sr.
[Taken from "Traveller Q&A", Travellers' Digest issue 15, Digest Group
Publications, Boise, ID, USA, 1989, pp 30-31.]
==================================================
As I said earlier, this is formatted more prettily at Beowulf Down.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 18:12:14 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Symbols for medical facility
This topic came up on another (non-Trav) list I'm on; the
question is placed before the TML and the Traveller-Culture list.
What symbols - if any - are "universally" recognized as meaning
"Medical facility - don't shoot; we're not a target"? Obviously,
we will have the Terran Red Cross, with occasional uses (under
very limited circumstances) of the Red Crescent, the Mogen David
Adom, and the Red Lion-and-Sun. But what about the Vilani? Or
the Syleans? Or any other major cultural influence on the
Imperium?
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 18:12:40 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Dice
On Wed, 2 Feb 2000 01:06:07 -0500 (EST), Bruce Johnson
wrote:
[on the subject of the "2D6 of Damage"...]
>Uhhh, I don't think those are pure brass. At (roughly) 800 g/cc those
>are considerably denser than anything _we_ can make. Does your friend
>have access to a superdense-making machine?
>Or perhaps you meant _nine_ pounds...though if your friend routinely
>throws them at you, I suppose it could _feel_ like ninety pounds ;-)
actually, I don't _know_ the correct weight; they're
really truly honest-to-goodness real, pure brass. They're just
bloody heavy when compared to "real" dice, even of the same
size...
Chris got it right; can you spell "hyperbole"?
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1858
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Traveller-digest Thursday, February 3 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1859
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: Galanglic
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1856
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Question : Terran Federation
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Re: Frigate crew questions
Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
Re: JTAS Online
Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
RE: THE SLR & GPMG
Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 16:56:57 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
In <9a.a3a558.25cb4518@aol.com>, on 02/03/00
at 03:54 PM, WriteFool@aol.com said:
>>In a message dated 2/3/00 2:43:13 PM Central Standard Time,
>>stuart.ferris@virgin.net writes:
>> Should we really be happy that another Traveller institution has
>>fallen into
>> the hands of SJG?
>> If it is only going to cater for SJG canon then I am not.
If it is *only* GT, then it will be marginally useful for me. If it is
mostly GT with a lot of generic (what I expect) then it will be useful.
If it is a broad mix of all versions and milleux with plenty of generic
hooks then it will be *very* useful. Right now, I'm very hopeful.
>According to the site they are looking for material for all Traveller
>eras, although putting things into GT stats as well as the original
>system would also be appreciated.
That's why I'm hopeful. That and the fact that LKW is editing it.
>And given the efforts that Pyramid puts into running articles on other
>systems (not perfect mind you, but pretty good for a "house" periodical),
>I think we can expect coverage of the entire milieu.
>There is one way to guarantee diversity though...send in your articles.
I'll admit I have a little concern about that. I don't really like that
anything I send them, or even post on a message board/chat, becomes their
property. I understand it, and in their position would probably do the
same thing, but I must say it does chill my desire to post...much less
send in articles.
Eris,
who generally has nothing all that valuable to say/write, but strongly
prefers to retain ownership to whatever he does say/write. --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 18:12:34 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:12:38 -0500 (EST), "Robert Eaglestone"
wrote:
>I have a perl script that generates PostScript subsector
>maps from sector files. Recently, I've discovered the
>magic of color in PostScript files. SO I'm adding some
>color to my subsector maps.
>I've got amber arcs for the amber zone, and red circles
>for interdicted zones. What else shall I do?
>Can anyone think of a useful way to encode trade
>classifications; for instance, denoting a world as
>being Rich or Industrial or Agricultural?
>Agricultural is easy - color the world green (it has to
>have water on it anyhow). But Rich is more difficult...
>gold? And Industrial is even more difficult.
>Anyone have suggestions of any kind for subsector maps?
Well, for "canonical" maps, desert worlds are white, while worlds
with non-zero hydrosphere are cyan...
The problem of coloring for trade classifications is that you
have to either designate colors for each possible (legal)
combination of classifications, or else just limit yourself to
plotting one classification per map - and some of those maps will
still need three colors - one for classification-positive, one
for classification-unspecified, and one for
classification-negative (e.g., if you're doing an industrial
plot, you need one color for "In" (class positive), one for "Ni"
(class negative), and one for worlds that specify neither (class
unspecified) - or maybe four (pop, for example: Hi, Lo, Ba, none
of the above). However, a complete set of these might make the
base of a useful commercial atlas.
For "border" sectors, especially in a Hard Times or early Milieu
Zero type of environment, coloring on the basis of polity
membership might be useful.
Then, there's coloring purely on the basis of the spectral
classification of the primary star in the system - that can make
pretty wall maps, even if the information isn't necessarily
useful in itself.
Most of the other ideas I have for map coloring require data that
wouldn't be in any common permutation of a sector data file.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:08:54 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: Re: Galanglic
>What is Galanglic? Assuming English is the basis, I assume
>basic Anglo-Saxon grammar and orthographical rules will dominate,
>with innumerable loan words and minor alterations. I'm all
>for altering the French-Latin loans.
I don't know what all the various milieu of canon say but here's how I play
it.
Galanglic as a language has followed the pattern of its predecessor English.
It has barrowed many words from the Vilani, but has maintained the basic
Latin alphabet. Arabic numerals are still used. Bilanidin is used the same
way the English Alphabet is used in Japan with letters substituted by sound.
Silent letters are not transcribed.
When I give my players documents I use 20th century English, but dress them
up with Bilanidin.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 17:22:20 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
In <4dhh9s0kutbc8jg44m58629a6fsom2q1fe@4ax.com>, on 02/03/00
at 06:12 PM, Jeff Zeitlin said:
>The problem of coloring for trade classifications is that you have to
>either designate colors for each possible (legal) combination of
>classifications, or else just limit yourself to plotting one
>classification per map - and some of those maps will still need three
>colors - one for classification-positive, one for
>classification-unspecified, and one for classification-negative (e.g., if
>you're doing an industrial plot, you need one color for "In" (class
>positive), one for "Ni" (class negative), and one for worlds that specify
>neither (class unspecified) - or maybe four (pop, for example: Hi, Lo,
>Ba, none of the above). However, a complete set of these might make the
>base of a useful commercial atlas.
All that's true, but there might be room below the system circle and
above the name for a row of colored dots. The system circle could be for
the star type of polity and the row of dots could be for the trade codes
in that system.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:34:26 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1856
Robert O'Cnnor you writes:
<< The pathophysiology of firearm wounds is in a little bit of flux.
There used to be a big debate on momentum vs. kinetic energy as the
primary determinants of wound effect. >>
Several members of the workshop were invited to attend a number of military
seminars (advantage of producing the Desert Shield Factbook and knowing Tom
Clancy and Larry Bond): The ones by Dr Fackler of the Army Wound Ballistics
Lab were of great use to us in Twilight: 2000.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 23:36:32 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
At 18:07 -0500 3/2/00, "Stuart Ferris" wrote:
>Should we really be happy that another Traveller institution has fallen into
>the hands of SJG?
SJG are at least willing to publish decent quality Traveller material
*and* pay the freelancers. And Loren is editing. Personally, I
wouldn't be surprised if SJG ended up publishing T5 in a manner
similar to In Nomine/GURPS In Nomine. opinion>
JTAS wasn't going anywhere before this happened. Personally, I'd have
liked to see a Challenge like mag (general SF Gaming) but I doubt the
market will bear it.
And the only reason Traveller isn't dead like RQ effectively is a
result of SJG publishing. Sure, I dislike GURPS as a system, but the
material isn't bad.
>If it is only going to cater for SJG canon then I am not.
It (the announcement) specifically stated that it was for all
editions of Traveller.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:32:25 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Question : Terran Federation
I dont have my MT or AR:Solomani handy, so can someone answer the following
questions:
1. What was the Highest Tech Level that the Terran Ferderation reached?
2. Is it feasable to give the TF a 1 to 2 TL bonus for computers and automation,
and a 1 TL bonus on life science (Cryogenics?)
3. Is it feasable for the Terran Navy to use extensive Von Neuman machines
(especially in forward areas during the Nth Interstellar War?).
I dont want to start a Leroy argument, I want to stay in established cannon.
(BTW, the idea , possably for TNS, is for a wolfpack base for commerse raiding).
Darryl
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 15:05:57 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
At 06:07 PM 2/3/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
>
><< Should we really be happy that another Traveller institution has fallen
>into
> the hands of SJG?
> If it is only going to cater for SJG canon then I am not.
Then I guess you don't have anything to worry about.
Now JTAS continues that same tradition onto the web, providing support for
Traveller all its forms and incarnations. We cover Classic Traveller,
MegaTraveller, Traveller: the New Era, Traveller 4th edition, and GURPS
Traveller. We'll keep you informed on what's happening, what's come out,
and what's coming up for the premiere science fiction RPG. The online
format also allows JTAS to offer an interactive forum for Traveller fans to
discuss the game and keep it alive and growing.
JTAS is edited by Loren Wiseman for Steve Jackson Games Incorporated. The
Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society is a registered trademark of Far
Future Enterprises, and is used under license.
Although it wasn't mentioned, I assume it will cover T5 when it is
published as well.
> >>
>According to the site they are looking for material for all Traveller eras,
>although putting things into GT stats as well as the original system would
>also be appreciated.
>
>And given the efforts that Pyramid puts into running articles on other
>systems (not perfect mind you, but pretty good for a "house" periodical), I
>think we can expect coverage of the entire milieu.
Actually, we try our best not to have Pyramid being a SJ Games house
organ. Biggest problem is that we don't have in-house writers, and most of
the people writing articles are subscribers. Guess what game most of them
play? The editorial for Friday's Pyramid covers this in better detail.
>There is one way to guarantee diversity though...send in your articles.
Nail on the head.
When it comes to JTAS, we *want* to focus on all versions of
Traveller. It's about Traveller and not just GT. However, it totally
depends on the submissions that we receive.
_________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
"I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:55:02 EST
From: WriteFool@aol.com
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
In a message dated 2/3/00 6:09:20 PM EST, eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:
<< >There is one way to guarantee diversity though...send in your articles.
I'll admit I have a little concern about that. I don't really like that
anything I send them, or even post on a message board/chat, becomes their
property. I understand it, and in their position would probably do the
same thing, but I must say it does chill my desire to post...much less
send in articles. >>
You must remember that this is a magazine, just like Dragon, the old JTAS or
Better Homes and Gardens. They buy the rights (I am not sure which ones,
you'll want to check) and you get the dough. It's how the writing biz works.
Michael Breen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:18:06 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Frigate crew questions
Dear Folks -
Phil wrote:
>So they'll need to be senior officers, just to kick the marines off
>the computer and stop them running their "Ultra Quake" training
>programs. ;-)
Actually, someone I know was *sure* that the Oz navy had a site licence for
Quake, considering it was on every Navy server he had ever maintained... ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:20:11 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
From:
> Anyway, here's Joe's take on the matter (seems he was asked it
> often enough to need two goes at it!):
With his logic, it's not difficult to see *why* he needed to have two goes
at it. If I'd been around, he would have needed three (or more). His
response is also an excellent example of why people should be just as
careful with their handwaves (if not moreso) than allowing new technologies
into the game. It's largely unfair to respond, since poor ol' Joe doesn't
seem to be on the list... but I will anyway.
> Robot brains tend to be more specialized and less deterministic
> (i.e., more synaptic).
Okay, fair enough, I guess.
> Robot brains are also optimized for size, since they must often fit in
> a very tiny space.
This is something of an odd point. I don't doubt that robot brains may be
optimized for size, but it implies that there can be robot brains which
aren't optimized for size. Either way, it says very little about the
differences other than to say that starship computers may or may not be
bigger than robot brains.
> Starship computers must monitor, self-test, diagnose, and control
> literally millions of complex components. Because of this, the more
> predictable (and cheaper) deterministic computers are used.
Okay, so what? Deterministic computers are cheaper? Presumably, if this fact
is represented in the Robots book... why bother to mention it at all?
>Some synaptic processing exists in starship computers at the higher
> tech levels (13+), but the synaptic results are always cross-checked
> by the deterministic portion. - Joe D. Fugate Sr.
This is a huge, gaping hole. His whole side of the argument collapses right
here. If a deterministic starship computer can do the work of a synaptic
computer well enough to check to see if it's correct, then the issue becomes
moot, doesn't it?
In that case, why do high tech computers need to incorporate synaptic
elements at all?
> [Taken from "Traveller Q&A", Travellers' Digest issue 11, Digest
> Group Publications, Boise, ID, USA, 1988, pp 38-39.]
>
> How do robot brains and starship computers differ? Can robot
> programs be loaded into a starship computer? - D.T.
>
> Robot brains and starship computers are different. Different
> enough, in fact, that program transfer between the two involves, as a
> minimum, several formidable tasks.
Alright, so it can be done, even if it's difficult for characters to do, on
the fly, in the wild. That doesn't mean that Naasirka scientists with a
multi-million credit budget couldn't do it for you. In other words, it
doesn't answer the question of why "robot brains" aren't used in the
Imperium.
> Modern day analogies often help to explain why things in
> MegaTraveller are the way they are, so let's look at an analogy.
Ugh... my eye always twitches when I see someone revving up the ol' analogy.
He's right, though. Analogies are handy. How about this one?
It would involve several formidable tasks for me to build an automobile from
scratch. However, automobile companies turn out many, many units each day.
> Consider the most advanced automobiles on the road today. They
> incorporate several microprocessors. Are the programs in
> automobile microprocessors interchangeable with the ones on my
> personal computer? in other words, can I load Space invaders into
> my car's engine computer, and play Space invaders in my car while
> the engine is not running? Of course not.
In theory, yes. In practice, yes, at least with the proper hardware and
software.
> So it is with robot brains and starship computers.
So basically, in theory the two are compatible. In practice they are if
someone is willing to do the time to come up with the proper hardware and
software. Now we're back to square one.
> Each is designed for certain specific functions. The robot brain is
> designed to be a very small,
A moot point. Size is not a factor here. If robot brains can be optimized to
be small, non-optimized robot brains can be large. The question is *how*
large.
> efficient processor of abstract concepts (very good at pattern
> recognition, essentially), while a starship computer is more of a
> traditional, "dumb but reliable", distributed processor.
But, according to his previous comment, the "dumb but reliable" computer
can, in theory and practice, do what the small and efficient robot brain can
do.
>Program interchange between the two is not impossible,
> but does involve many technical tasks requiring a good array of
> skills.
Such as those that, say, Naasirka has at its disposal.
> Since each such interchange is usually a custom job, several of the
> tasks will be uncertain.
*Why* is each such interchange "usually a custom job"? Why wouldn't someone
else do the work and reap the profits? This assumes there are profits, and
I'd have to examine Book 8: Robots to see if there would be.
> This means that while you may make the mods, you'd dam well
> better test them several times first
Which a company like Naasirka might do.
> Uncertain tasks are great for this kind of in-game research
> and development by characters. The players must retry the die rolls
> until they feel the results they are getting are reliable. We've used
> this technique a few times in our own playtests, with good results.
Finally, he's nearly honest: doing things this way makes for a more fun
game. He probably should have simply said this upfront.
> Okay, you've managed (with much effort) to transfer your starship's
> navigation program to your robot's brain. Good. Are you sure you'll
> trust your life and ship to the first jump vector generated by your
> robot? - Joe D. Fugate Sr.
I don't know. How are jump vectors generated? Are they generated in a
fashion which "robots" (or more properly, computers, as there is little
difference, according to Joe himself, between the two) excel at? If the
answer is yes, why not? Is there a reason why I should trust one generated
by a human being any more? How about a human being in conjunction with a
computer?
Basically, this is a *really* bad handwave, and it seems to create just as
many problems as Joe set out to solve in the first place.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:46:29 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
>>A question, if I may, for either you or Loren. Will JTAS subscribers be
>>allowed access to the playtest files for GT?
>
>
>This is what Steve had to say on the subject:
>
>
>We discussed this . . . a LOT . . . and finally decided to keep all the
>playtests in Pyramid. Reasoning:
>
>1. We already have a deal with the Pyramid subscribers. It includes
>playtests. JTAS subscribers might LIKE to have playtests, as well as
>universal peace and free chocolate, but if it's not set up that way from
>the beginning, nobody is getting ripped off. Someone who is ONLY interested
>in Traveller playtest, and in no other feature of JTAS, should just
>(continue to) subscribe to Pyramid.
>
>2. Running playtest in two places is hugely inconvenient to the editors and
>lead playtesters. Mirroring one playtest area for two zines and two sets of
>passwords would drive Jackie to distraction. We looked at this, briefly,
>and then came to our senses. So duplicating the feature is right out.
>
>I won't get mad if an occasional playtest discussion slops into JTAS, and
>JTAS will be the place where we do most of our grognard-specific market
>research, but we will not duplicate the actual playtest here.
>
Well, from this grognard's perspective, it looks like a way to soak me for
more money. I signed up with Pyramid for Traveller articles and Traveller
playtesting. Now I'll have to buy _two_ subscriptions to do that. The price
just doubled.
Now, I'll grant you that JTAS will have more Traveller articles. Will
Pyramid still have the same number if GT article it has had for the last
year, or will all GT publishing move to JTAS? If the latter, then _I_ am
being ripped off.
One of the big things with playtesting GT stuff is to get the Traveller
facts right; the other is to get the GURPS rules right. If most of the
Traveller people are in the JTAS area, unless they have duplicate
subscriptions then there is no way for them to have any input into the
playtesting.
I can see the issue with existing Pyramid subscribers and playtests, and I
can see the technical issue for mirroring (so that no one is left out).
Trying to be constructive, I have two suggestions:
1)Why not make JTAS a regular part of Pyramid? Is the revenue stream too
small? Would regular Pyramid subscribers complain about all that Traveller
stuff? (I haven't complained about weeks of GURPS Supers and In Nomine
articles, with nary a Traveller article in sight.)
2)Why not offer a package deal to both ezines?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:55:16 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
Chris Seamans wrote:
>
> > Robot brains are also optimized for size, since they must often fit in
> > a very tiny space.
>
> This is something of an odd point. I don't doubt that robot brains may be
> optimized for size, but it implies that there can be robot brains which
> aren't optimized for size. Either way, it says very little about the
> differences other than to say that starship computers may or may not be
> bigger than robot brains.
>
The best analogy here is probably with embedded processors vs.
general-purpose processors today. Embedded systems are optimized in
different ways than desktop computers are, for example. This analogy
probably can be cut and pasted for robots vs. shipboard computers too
without too much loss in accuracy. In any event, it is likely that robot
brains are optimized for different parameters in some way than desktops are,
so the resulting product is almost surely different. Engineering is
constrained optimization.
> > Robot brains and starship computers are different. Different
> > enough, in fact, that program transfer between the two involves, as a
> > minimum, several formidable tasks.
I agree on this point. Continuing the embedded vs. GP analogy, I can't just
take code from an arbitrary embedded system and port it to a GP machine.
Suppose that the embedded code runs on the 8051 processor, for example. I
can't just take the 8051 code and run it on a GP machine, say the x86
architecture. Even if you could (say a embedded 80186 ported to a Pentium
III), the nature of embedded programs makes them ill-suited for a desktop
environment. An embedded system typically will not have the same I/O
paradigm as a GP machine. For example, there are no GUIs or mice involved
with the control systems which keep your car running. Porting the control
programs from your car to your desktop computer would be difficult to do in
a meaningful way unless you have a fairly good tools, like a professional
engineer would have (emulators and so forth).
With a lot of work you could probably move a program from a robot to a
shipboard computer, but it would be a major undertaking. It's probably a
fairly involved job, maybe requiring computer-4 or so to pull off. It's
certainly not the kind of thing you will do casually.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 15:16:50 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: RE: THE SLR & GPMG
On 3 Feb 00, at 17:02, Trevor, Peter wrote:
> Michael wrote:
> > The SLR was not a normal FAL. It was a made to imperial
> > measurments not metric and most importantly the British version
> > was not capable of automatic fire (though thre was apparently a
> > much disapproved of way of circumventing this).
>
> Which measurements are different ... IIRC they both fire standard
> 7.62Nato rounds.
>
> As to the auto fire aspect, I stand corrected.
Actually there are several ways of making them full-auto. One only
involves a matchstick inserted in the right place.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 15:16:50 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Pigs and Guns (OT, slightly technical)
On 3 Feb 00, at 10:07, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Jory Earl writes:
> > So you don't believe in hydrodynamic shock eh? :) Go fill a plastic
> > milk jug with water and stand off a good distance and shoot it. Armor
> > piercing rounds will tend to just go through it while hollow point will
> > shred the entire jug. While the amount of damage attributable to
> > hydrodynamic shock may not be as much as believed, it does occur.
>
> While hydrodynamic shock will do a fine job of detonating sealed
> containers, there is almost no part of the body which resembles this sort
> of container (the skull does somewhat). When dealing with something held
> together in a manner resembling how a human body is held together,
> hydrodynamic shock is irrelevant.
Despite what the hydrodynamic shock proponents seems to think it
doesn't work well on deer, either. If it did any shot to the body
should drop them, giving time for a second shot. It doesn't work that
way. If a deer is shot anywhere that's not vital _right now_ it'll run
off (the exception to this is that for some reason a hit just above the
heart through the major arteries and veins, as well as the lungs seems
to be very quick - even though heart hits often aren't). If the hit was
somewhere that's vital in the longer term (heart, lungs, etc) it'll
drop sooner, or later, but by then finding it may be impossible.
Wild pigs are worse, but I suspect that pigs simply don't believe in
shock. They certainly haven't watched much hollywood.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 15:16:51 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
On 3 Feb 00, at 13:49, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> This article was written in 1982, when the Evil Empire's SuperIvans were
> going to overrun Europe, then swim across the Atlantic and kill all the
> red-blooded Amurrican Men in hand to hand combat so they could steal our
> women...
>
> They didn't _start_ to seriously consider that some 90% of the available
> medical personnell were going to be at various ground zeros themselves,
> and the remaining 10% would probably not be able to get to where they were
> needed.
IIRC 1982 is also before some interesting studies that suggest that the
standard figures for radiation sickness were way too optimistic (as
well as being based on getting proper medical care in a hospital). The
newer figures show a 50% death rate at about 150 rem/rads as opposed to
300+, IIRC. The older figures also neglected to take into account the
likely shortage of good water, and given that dehydration is a big
problem with radiation sickness, any study based on the older figures
is going to be way out in terms of secondary, fallout related deaths.
1982 was also before most of the nuclear winter studies were done. Even
if "nuclear winter" is an overstatement, a "nuclear autumn" at the
wrong time of year will wipe out just about all the northern
hemisphere's wheat and corn crops. Add that to the disruption of food
distribution, and you get starvation. Add starvation to the lack of any
sort of health system, and you get disease epidemics. The only good
thing is that the disruption of travel will slow down the spread of the
diseases. Yay.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:40:16 -0500
From: "Michael Peters"
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Johnson
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
I TOTALLY AGREE Bruce. Not only does this online version of JTAS seem to be
well supported, i.e. with SJG's usual high standard of graphics, it has some
interesting information in it's first TRIAL issue!
This event is also indicative of something else, fellow Travellers, ... our
favorite game (albeit in GURPS format) MUST be POPULAR! I have to be lieve
that spinning a Traveller centered e-zine off from Pyramid is indicative of
the volume of material they are recieving in THAT SPECIFIC AREA, otherwise
it be to their advantage to use it to fill Pyramid's ranks. THe intorduction
of a new WEEKLY e-zinetells me that they have enough material ALREADY IN
HAND to carry the mag. for some period of time! All this from a reportedly
dead game!
The good news is that there is a market for Traveller out there! The bad
news is (IMHO!) that if Marc doesn't bring T5 out soon he may loose all of
those (apparent) new fans that seem to be out there, brought to Traveller
through the GURPS system! A prolonged wait on Marc's part might let GURPS
Traveller build enough of a solid fan foundation that T5 could never fit in,
even between the cracks and thus take over the roll of the primary Traveller
rule system by default.
Of course this may be the direction that Marc has chosen to go, and, of
course, that is his perogative.
In the mean time let me point to the words below! Follow their excellent
advise! For all but a very very few, you won't regret it!
Mike Peters (all opinions are my own and based on my veiw of the world, it
could be through a rose colored filters)
> Oh damn, go there now and sign on...it's free for 2 months and $15 /yr
> afterwards.
>
> It's GOOD folks!
>
> (My JTAS' is back, and it's gonna be goo-ood, oool laaa hey now my JTAS
> back!";-)
>
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1859
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Traveller-digest Thursday, February 3 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1860
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Symbols for medical facility
Re: Question : Terran Federation
Re: Aging and TL
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
Distances in 3D (Was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1852)
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff about guns)
Space Vikings nuking 'em till they glow...
Re Pyramid & JTAS
Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
Re: JTAS
Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:00:30 -0800
From: Snake Eyes
Subject: Re: Symbols for medical facility
At 06:12 PM 2/3/2000 -0500, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>What symbols - if any - are "universally" recognized as meaning "Medical
>facility - don't shoot; we're not a target"? Obviously, we will have the
>Terran Red Cross, with occasional uses (under very limited circumstances)
>of the Red Crescent, the Mogen David Adom, and the Red Lion-and-Sun. But
>what about the Vilani? Or the Syleans? Or any other major cultural
>influence on the Imperium?
Interesting question. I would hazard to guess that, if the Red Cross (and
it's variants) are still recognized in the 3I, physicians would still be
identified by the caduceus (a winged staff with two intertwined serpents)
and EMS/Paramedic/Rescue personnel and their associated equipment and
facilities might still operate under the "Star of Life" (a blocky blue
asterisk).
Whatever universal icon or pictograph is currently used in international
airports to denote "first aid station" might also survive to be used
throughout Imperial space. Those strip-mall based first-aid/urgent care
facilities all seem to use some derivation of a human hand with a bandaged
index finger.
Of course, that's all pretty Terran-centric -- but it works for me. Kind
of makes me wonder if the Imperium still uses (or recognizes) the standard
symbols for radiation, biohazard, and poison. And, if not, what replaced
them ?
~ Snake Eyes
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:02:31 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Question : Terran Federation
On 4 Feb 00, at 10:32, dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au wrote:
> I dont have my MT or AR:Solomani handy, so can someone answer the
> following questions:
>
> 1. What was the Highest Tech Level that the Terran Ferderation reached?
The MT Referee's Companion (IIRC, it maight have been Imperial
Encyclodedia) gives TL12.
> 2. Is it feasable to give the TF a 1 to 2 TL bonus for computers and
> automation, and a 1 TL bonus on life science (Cryogenics?)
Well the same source does say that at TL12 the Terrans started using
lots of AI robots (though I'd say not true AI).
> 3. Is it feasable for the Terran Navy to use extensive Von Neuman
> machines (especially in forward areas during the Nth Interstellar War?).
See above, but I don't think they did.
> I dont want to start a Leroy argument, I want to stay in established
> cannon. (BTW, the idea , possably for TNS, is for a wolfpack base for
> commerse raiding).
Let's say it a few more times: Leroy, Leroy.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:16:53 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Aging and TL
From: Ian Ferguson
> It is possible that there is an "aging" gene in our genome
> somewhere, or possibly a bunch of them. The problem for us
> evolutionary biologists is: why would such a gene (or genes)
> be found at all, let alone be found in everyone? If the
> only effect of gene X is to make an organism age, that
> organism's competitors can be expected to produce more
> offspring and therefore the X gene should tend to disappear.
>
> On the other hand, if the X gene promotes higher rates of
> reproduction in youth at the cost of aging effects later,
> then it is easy to see how such a gene may outcompete its
> competators. If this is the case, eliminating aging
> without reducing health in some way may be tricky.
If gene replacement therapy were developed, then you could
have the best of both worlds. You would have your children
at normal ages (in our "current" POV) and then the therapy
to fix your age at whatever point represents the strongest,
healthiest, etc. the human body can be.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.2
GIT dpu s+:+>++: a >- C++$ U? P+ L? E? W+++ N o? K? w(+) O? V? PS+(+++)
PE++ Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X(+) R+++ tv+ b++ DI++++ D G e~++ h r y+(-)
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:17:23 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
From: Ian Ferguson
> Robert O'Connor writes:
> >Ian Ferguson wrote :-
> >Rules stuff :- I used to give a bonus to aging rolls depending on
> >the homeworld TL a character came from :-
>
> The assumption being that the critical effect of TL occurs
> before 18 years of age, quite reasonable.
>
> >Pre-Industrial : -1 penalty
> >Early Stellar : +1
> >Average Stellar : +2
> >High Stellar : +3
> >to simulate the effects of the things I've described above.
>
> This works for me, though it means that the aging system
> presented in LBB1 implies that the average PC comes from
> a pre-stellar society.
Considering that the rules were written by people who came
from a pre-stellar society with no thought to effects of TLs on
aging, this is not unreasonable, IMO.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.2
GIT dpu s+:+>++: a >- C++$ U? P+ L? E? W+++ N o? K? w(+) O? V? PS+(+++)
PE++ Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X(+) R+++ tv+ b++ DI++++ D G e~++ h r y+(-)
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:19:37 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
From: Leonard Erickson
> Cloning won't help. Dolly has *old* DNA (ie it's got most of the
> "padding" gone already). I don't recall hearing if she's shown signs of
> early aging yet, but I *do* recall hearing that they'd confirmed that
> the cloning process had *not* "regenerated" the "padding" (teleomeres).
Actually, if there were a viable mind transfer method, cloning
could help, providing the cells to be used were harvested
early in life. Even if you didn't harvest 'til age 40, you could
add 80 years to the maximum life span. If the cells were
harvested from an infant and preserved cryogenically, you
could add 120 years as often as you liked.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.2
GIT dpu s+:+>++: a >- C++$ U? P+ L? E? W+++ N o? K? w(+) O? V? PS+(+++)
PE++ Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X(+) R+++ tv+ b++ DI++++ D G e~++ h r y+(-)
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:19:54 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Dice (was Re: The d3 Question)
From: Leonard Erickson
> Sorry, but brass only has a density of around 8. 2 inch cubes are
> about 125 cc. Which gives a mass of about 1 kg each. or 4.4 lbs for the
> pair.
1 cubic inch = 16.39 cc.
8 cubic inches = 131.1 cc
The density of hard brass (probably what you would want to
use) is higher. Probably c. 8.7.
So 2 inch brass cubes would mass c. 1,145 grams. Allowing
for drilling and rounding the edges, and converting to English,
that would be over 2.5 lbs ea.
Total mass > 5#, pedantically speaking.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.2
GIT dpu s+:+>++: a >- C++$ U? P+ L? E? W+++ N o? K? w(+) O? V? PS+(+++)
PE++ Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X(+) R+++ tv+ b++ DI++++ D G e~++ h r y+(-)
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:20:38 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Distances in 3D (Was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1852)
From: Russell Bornschlegel
> Although it always surprised me that going into 3D didn't change the
> answer to the cube root of the sum of the cubes. :)
I know what you mean. When I was first faced with this type
of question, I didn't have any handy references, so I used a
little logic. What I wanted to know was the distance from one
corner of a box to the opposite corner. I knew that I could find
the distance from one corner of a rectangle to the other by
use of the classical Pythagorean formula and that that would
give me the dimensions for a rectangle that included the
corners that I wanted to check, then I could use the
Pythagorean formula to find the final distance. Since I had
several that I needed to check, I decided to reduce the
equation to it's simplest form and found that indeed you had
the correct formula.
Box of sides A, B and C
___ _________
ab = AB = \/ A^2 + B^2
___ _________
y = BC = \/ ab^2 + C^2
ab^2 = A^2 + B^2
so: ______________
y = \/ A^2 + B^2 + C^2
Of course, finding the distance between any two points in a
Cartesian coordinate system is as simple as find the
dimensions of the box that has those points on opposite
corners and calculating the distances, so...
____________________________
d = \/ (x1 - x2)^2 + (y1 - y2)^2 + (z1 - z2)^2
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.2
GIT dpu s+:+>++: a >- C++$ U? P+ L? E? W+++ N o? K? w(+) O? V? PS+(+++)
PE++ Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X(+) R+++ tv+ b++ DI++++ D G e~++ h r y+(-)
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:41:07 -0500
From: "Shade"
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Well, I personally must say that I loved this part ( taken from the JTAS
website ):
We are not interested in why one version of Traveller is the one true path
to enlightenment and all others are heresy. We are not interested in a
detailed explanation of why some key facet of the Traveller background is
impossible and should be deleted and all existing books rewritten.
....and my heart sang. I know I'll be subscribing to it. That paragraph
right there just sold me on the entire concept.
Shade
I am impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
Klaatu
" The Day the Earth Stood Still " (1951)
IMTU-UWP John Watts 0608 C209389-8 N hi-- as++ va++ so+ da+ 223
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:51:33 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Dear Folks -
Jeff said:
>The problem of coloring for trade classifications is that you
>have to either designate colors for each possible (legal)
>combination...
[snip]
>For "border" sectors, especially in a Hard Times or early Milieu
>Zero type of environment, coloring on the basis of polity
>membership might be useful.
>
>Then, there's coloring purely on the basis of the spectral
>classification...
etc etc.
What you are after are plastic overlays. Do a base map, then three or four
overlays, each one showing something different.
Base Map - System positions (outline circle), gas giants, world names
Overlay 1 - borders and polities, xboat and trade routes
Overlay 2 - trade classifications
Overlay 3 - spectral classification
Any takers?
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:49:57 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
At 5:21 PM +1100 2/3/2000, Hughes, Michael wrote:
>What I meant to infer was that the impact of the round was so great that it
>knocked the target off their feet. If you've been struck by a high powered
>bullet and knocked to the ground, then it's going to be very hard to get up
>and keep going - no matter what inspires you (drugs, religion, carton of
>cold, cold, cold VB after two days out bush).
Bullets have very little actual momentum and people shot tend to fall
forward at least as often as backward. A rifle bullet will blow through
before it knocks you down. If you think about the kick of a rifle and
how that doesn't knock down the firer and then take into account that
the rifle kick includes a high pressure jet of gas shooting out of the
barrel after the bullet is gone you can get an idea of the actual
momentum of a bullet. Also keep in mind that a rifle usually transfers
its momentum to the skeleton (more likely to shove the body around)
while a bullet often punches through soft tissue, not transfering much
momentum to the whole body.
Bolie IV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:51:54 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff about guns)
At 11:05 PM +1100 2/3/2000, Robert O'Connor wrote:
>I'm not sure what you are referring to.
>'Shock' is defined _medically_ as a state where cardiac output cannot
>meet the metabolic demands of the tissues.
You can suffer shock if a bullet tears an artery or somehow otherwise
causes a quick drain of blood. This can cause the blood pressure to
drop. I'd imagine that this is relatively rare, though.
Bolie IV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:05:23 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Space Vikings nuking 'em till they glow...
>1982 was also before most of the nuclear winter studies were done. Even
>if "nuclear winter" is an overstatement, a "nuclear autumn" at the
>wrong time of year will wipe out just about all the northern
>hemisphere's wheat and corn crops. Add that to the disruption of food
>distribution, and you get starvation. Add starvation to the lack of any
>sort of health system, and you get disease epidemics. The only good
>thing is that the disruption of travel will slow down the spread of the
>diseases. Yay.
This was a topic of much discussion back the Pocket-Empire mailing list days.
Higher Tech worlds get hit much, much harder. They have more efficient,
and concentrated, food production.
They also have much more efficient, and faster, transportation systems.
Why spend the money on valuable downtown space to store a month's worth of
food when you can ship in enough food to feed the city every three to four
days?
Population centers will be hit by starvation faster & harder.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
travhead.geo@yahoo.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ Opinions Mine!
"In 1991, [Vice President] Gore cited Bush's China policy as a reason he
should be defeated for reelection, charging Bush sent his emissaries to
toast the butchers of Tiananmen Square.'"
Deborah Orin in the New York Post, March 26, 1997, the day after Gore
drank champagne with Chinese Premier Li Peng, who helped plan the
Tiananmen massacre
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:19:23 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Pyramid & JTAS
> I'll admit I have a little concern about that. I don't really like that
> anything I send them, or even post on a message board/chat, becomes their
> property. I understand it, and in their position would probably do the
> same thing, but I must say it does chill my desire to post...much less
> send in articles. >>
>
>You must remember that this is a magazine, just like Dragon, the old JTAS or
>Better Homes and Gardens. They buy the rights (I am not sure which ones,
>you'll want to check) and you get the dough. It's how the writing biz works.
>
Not exactly. One of the reasons I won't sub to Pyramid is that the
published ownership policy allows them to use ANYTHING a subscriber posts
to the message boards with no more than a byline, and not always even that.
Not that they have pulled that yet, but still the ability to do that is
enough for me to boycott. That, and I want a physical object on my self for
my sub monies, not something intangible. My copies of Challenge and Dragon
have climbed in value; the new pyramid can not, and thus is no investment.
Additionally, I am reticent to spend even $15 on a web-service. I realize
it is far less than the paper product was. So, if someone were to post a
fully realized adaptation of say, GURPS Castle Falkenstein, in theory they
could publish it without paying the author of the adaptation, since all
message board posts become property of SJG, but the issues pertaining to
liscence still apply; in the case of CF, they could use it right away, as
they are liscenced for it. SJG doesn't seem to be the type to screw someone
that way (nor is it likely to do so more than once before litigation would
ensue to challenge such ownership on such an item).
I hope it provides a good tool. But web-zines are not the same as paper,
microcopy, nor mailed-on-disk periodicals; you pay for a service, not for a
product. They have the boon and bane of changeability; something you see
there on day X may be gone on day X+1, and there are no back issues, so if
you didn't print it out or D/L to disk, you're SOL; OTOH, you don't have to
wait for the next issue in many cases; new stuff appears daily or weekly.
Look at the popularity of back issues of Challenge, Dragon, JTAS, TD, even
the 4 issues of MTJ. They sell now for more than cover in many cases. The
magazine itself was a tangible product with long term value. Web-zines are
a service, with the product (the information) being value added, assuming
you actually make a copy of the information for future use, but unlike
physical subscription products, you can't resell the information by
reselling the media as you'd have violated the service agreement.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:25:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook
Subject: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
This post is pretty patch-work, as I'm sort of jumping in late.
Please bare with me. :^)
William F. Hostman writes:
> Recently, (the past 10-days, in fact) the series "On the Inside" (Discovery
> channel or TLC, can't remember which) showed some SWAT training in
> California. They were using unomodifed service weapons, but not personal
> carry weapons, with training "marking" ammo. Everyone was wearing Class II
> or better body armor, and head protection including riot helmets with
> face-plates. They were, in fact firing LIVE WEAPONS (as in unmodified,
> fully functional, kill a man if you run ball ammo through it) with a
> special form of LIVE AMMO (as in throwing a physical projectile down
> range), at LIVE people. Just not Ball...
>
> I can see this type of training for SWAT, SEALS, DELTA's, etc. I expect
> soon it will become common in prison Crisis Response Teams and Prisoner
> Control Teams.
One of my co-instructors at Willamette Small Arms Academy (WSAA) is also
a firearms instructor at Oregon DOC (Dept. of Corrections.) We've both
trained with SImmunition FX Marking rounds and let me tell you, even with
protective gear on, it hurts like holy hell with you get hit. :^(
Jory Earl writes:
> So you don't believe in hydrodynamic shock eh? :) Go fill a plastic milk
> jug with water and stand off a good distance and shoot it. Armor piercing
> rounds will tend to just go through it while hollow point will shred the
> entire jug.
At the risk of nitpicking, the effect you're describing is "hydrostatic
shock," not "hydrodynamic shock."
Danny M Moody writes:
> > From: Ethan Henry [mailto:egh@klg.com]
> >
> > Woah. I had no idea. Those things are scary... I imagine that it would
> > be waaaaayyyy to easy for someone with a Bad Idea(tm) to slip a blank
> > or worse, a live round, into a cartridge full of those things.
> ...
> Nope. Although you can use your own firearm during training, it requires a
> complete barrel change. The paintball barrel will not chamber a regular
> firearm round.
True for paintball, not true for simmunition. It chambers just like
standard ammunition of the same caliber. This is why simmunition
training requires "property masters" to physically inspect and load
all weapons and spare magazines (speedloaders, et.al.) for all participants
prior to commencement of training.
Walter Smith writes:
> Peter Trevor wrote:
> >Why they use their own terms for weapons is
> >anyone's guess. Along with the SLR there was the GPMG (General
> >Purpose MachineGun) but I forget what the actual weapon was.
>
> Maybe the naming convention was based on the government contract,
> rather than the manufacturer-given name of the weapon that won said
> contract?
The term "GPMP" usually refers to MGs that are belt-fed in 7.62x51mm
caliber and relatively portable. THe FN GPMG and the American M-60
are the two archetypical examples. The "General Purpose" aspect comes
from the ability to serve reasonably effectively as both anti-vehicle
(lightly armored) and anti-personnel. They are typically man-portable
(the M-60 was the primary "squad heavy weapon" in the U.S. Army before
the advent of the M-249 SAW), but are well suited for mounting on small
to medium-sized vehicles as a primary weapon. As a matter of note,
most tracked vehicles in the U.S. inventory use this sort of weapon
as their main *non-coaxial* source of firepower.
Mark Urbin writes:
> >Hmmm...which is a more common firearm related accident, a
> >self-inflicted fatality or a fatal shooting of another person?
> >Realizing, of course, that the former could be a cover-up of a
> >suicide, while the latter could be a cover-up of a murder...or
> >vice-versa.
>
> I'm not up on the current stats in other countries, but the accident rate
> here in the US has been on the decline for over a decade. That's with
> overall firearm ownership going up.
Very true, Mark. According to the National Safety Council (www.nsc.org),
death by Firearms in the age range 0-24 ranks 5th behind vehicle accidents,
poisoning, drowning, and fire. In fact, even with the increase in total
firearm ownership nationwide, the number of accidental deaths due to
firearms is down (across all age groups) by 18% between 1997 and 1999.
Ian Ferguson writes:
> Michel Vaillancourt writes:
>
> >Now, I've fired some pretty impressive toys, and you can't easily
> >*carry* anything that chambers a round big enough to knock the
> >firer down.... =)
>
> Of course, that depends on the firer. I remember a small
> lady firing a 12 gauge shotgun and being caught by the
> instructor. I suppose that a PGMP (or even a LAG?) would
> entail enough recoil to knock down an unbraced firer.
It's really a matter of balance. People argue the a 180 gr. bullet
can't knock down a 180 lb. man, due to Newton's 2nd Law. However,
the forces involved are perpendicular to one another and a fair
amount of number crunching is actually necessary to determine
so-called "knock-down power." This includes the targets weight,
center of mass (is he leaning forward or backward when the bullet
hits him in the chest?), friction coefficient of his shoe soles
vs. the surface he's standing, how level that surface is, etc.
It's not a trivial exercise.
BTW, I *know* GPMG-type belt-fed can knock me down with recoil if
I'm not properly braced. Ask Jesse DeGraff and/or Doug Berry.
They've seen me shoot my HK-21 off-hand. :^)
Anthony Jackson writes:
> While hydrodynamic shock will do a fine job of detonating sealed containers,
> there is almost no part of the body which resembles this sort of container
> (the skull does somewhat). When dealing with something held together in a
> manner resembling how a human body is held together, hydrodynamic shock is
> irrelevant.
Not irrelevant, but certainly not as significant as once thought.
Recent articles (within the last year) in the New England Journal
of Medicine have suggested that both muscle (striated) tissue (cardiac
tissue in particular) and "non-elastic" connective tissue are capable
of withstanding much more temporary deformation due to "cavitation
caused by high-velocity projectile passage" than was previously
thought. Much less tearing occurs than previous studies indicated.
And so it goes...
- Mark C.
Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
NRA (Life), GOA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
Front Sight First Family member #1
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others like?"
- Voltaire (1694-1778)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 23:26:04 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: JTAS
Eris writes:
<< >There is one way to guarantee diversity though...send in your articles.
I'll admit I have a little concern about that. I don't really like that
anything I send them, or even post on a message board/chat, becomes their
property. I understand it, and in their position would probably do the
same thing, but I must say it does chill my desire to post...much less
send in articles. >>
Uh . . . you do know that you get _paid_ for any article we publish? Consult
the "Writing for Us" guidelines for a description of what rights are
purchased.
Loren (Back in the saddle again) Wiseman
newly minted Editor, JTAS
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 23:30:57 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
From: Luther Martin
> The best analogy here is probably with embedded processors vs.
> general-purpose processors today. Embedded systems are
> optimized in different ways than desktop computers are, for
> example.
Optimized for size is what Mr. Fugate said, which has little or no bearing
on the question at hand, which is why I thought the comment was odd.
> This analogy probably can be cut and pasted for robots vs.
> shipboard computers too without too much loss in accuracy. In any
> event, it is likely that robot brains are optimized for different
> parameters in some way than desktops are, so the resulting product
> is almost surely different. Engineering is constrained optimization.
You either misread or disregarded my response, which goes a level or two
deeper than whether or not robot brains and computers are different. I have
no qualms with conceding that they're different. I do have a problem with
the properties of "deterministic" and "synaptic" computers being shifted
every which way in support of a handwave.
If a ship's computer is capable of double checking a robot brain's response,
then it's capable of doing what the robot brain does.
*Unless* there's some sort of component to piloting or astrogating a ship
which is uniquely synaptic (and) or human. Such a handwave opens up a whole
different can of worms... primarily *what* is this synaptic / human
component? Depending on *what* this component is, it may disallow certain
alien races from becoming astrogators.
> I agree on this point. Continuing the embedded vs. GP analogy, I
> can't just take code from an arbitrary embedded system and port it
> to a GP machine.
No, but both in theory and practice you can emulate it.
> Suppose that the embedded code runs on the 8051 processor, for
> example. I can't just take the 8051 code and run it on a GP machine,
> say the x86 architecture.
I can't just slam an Atari 2600 cartridge into my computer, either. Yet, I
can play Atari 2600 games on my computer.
> Porting the control programs from your car to your desktop
> computer would be difficult to do in a meaningful way unless you
> have a fairly good tools, like a professional engineer would have
> (emulators and so forth).
>
> With a lot of work you could probably move a program from a robot
> to a shipboard computer, but it would be a major undertaking. It's
> probably a fairly involved job, maybe requiring computer-4 or so to
> pull off. It's certainly not the kind of thing you will do casually.
Alright, what I'm about to say might be construed as offensive:
Did you actually read my post?
This is the sort of thing which really makes me want to claw my eyes out and
unsubscribe from the list. All you've done here is offer a refutation for my
position while, presumably unintentionally, posting stuff which I had
already acknowledged.
I acknowledged that the two types of computers are different. The point is
moot, because by Mr. Fugate's own admission (both implicitly and explicitly)
is that one sort of computer can do the task of the other. I acknowledged
that it would be difficult for a party to make programs from one sort of
computer work with the other on the fly and in the wild.
My problems with Mr. Fugate's handwave goes beyond that point. I really
don't care whether or not a party can do it easily. What I do care about is
*why* a megacorporation, such as Naasirka. Hasn't done it in the first
place.
Yes, I could come up with a few reasons why not. I could take a cue from the
Luddites, and say that spacers, when faced with the eradication of their
whole way of life smashed the robot brains which were being installed on
ships. The labor union idea which was presented by Dave at the beginning
might work as well. There are others:
AI isn't possible. - This one doesn't work. It breaks canon. More
importantly, one has to ask if piloting a ship or sending it through jump
*requires* artificial intelligence in the first place.
Something nasty happened in the past which caused the Imperium to despise
AI. - This doesn't break canon, but it's not supported by canon either. Of
course, there's still the question of whether or not artificial intelligence
is required at all.
AI is expensive. - I suppose it's possible, but does comparison shopping
between Robots and High Guard, or Robots and Book 2 bear this out?
What it all boils down to, however, is that Traveller has a very specific
taste. Part of this flavor requires characters to work on starships and gain
skill levels in the skills required in their operation. It's more exciting,
it's more dynamic, and a case can be made that it's more fun. With this in
mind, there's no need to create a handwave which: is full of holes and
problems, or is stifling, or feels forced (or is, to some degree, an unholy
combination of all three).
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1860
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Traveller-digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1861
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: THE SLR & GPMG...
Nazis and Solomani (was Re: Instant Zombie Bullets?)
Re: JTAS - Rights
Re: JTAS Online
Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1860
Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers
Re: JTAS - Rights
Re: Question : Terran Federation
Re: Distances in 3D
Re: Pyramid & JTAS
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Automata
Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
Re: Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff about guns)
RE: THE SLR & GPMG
Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
RE: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
RE: Pyramid & JTAS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:58:31 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: THE SLR & GPMG...
The Australian Army used to use SLR's that were metric, made under license
from FN. Calibre was metric (natch), but so was sighting, MV, and
pressures/energy ratings (of gases, recoil, etc.). Aussies also used the AR
(Automatic Rifle) version with a heavy barrel, folding bipod, and a double
capacity box magazine - in the old parlay, it would be an LMG as the Bren
was. It was issued mainly to arty and the like as a weapon crew personal
support weapon (breakdown on a 105 was; #1 armed with a F1 SMG; one other
armed with an AR, and the other five armed with SLR's).
The AR was rather robust actually, but the magazine concept was very dated
for a support weapon. And they couldn't handle getting run over by a gun
tractor when you were ordered to "Put it over there out of the way..." by
the Battery Guide just before the gun comes onto the position!
"THE GPMG" is something I am not quite sure of what you meant? THE GPMG
would have to be the MG32/42 family wouldn't it? before that, you either
had an LMG or a HMG, whereas the GPMG took over both roles didn't it? The
"Ol' Rambo Special" also had it's heritage with to the MG42, before the MG3
was officially released if IRC.
- -- The Roc
- ----- Original Message -----
From: CGS
To:
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 2:30 AM
Subject: THE SLR & GPMG
> The SLR was not a normal FAL. It was a made to imperial measurments not
> metric and most importantly the British version was not capable of
> automatic fire (though thre was apparently a much disapproved of way of
> circumventing this).
> The Canadians tried a supprt version of it without success.
> THE GPMG is a version of the FN MAG, a version of which the Americans
> use on their panzers. I do not know if it is metric or imperial.
>
> Both were excellent and reliable weapons, the FN MAG is probably the
> best MG in the world apart from the MG42 and its child the MG3.
>
> The SA80, IW or proberly the L85 has been a disaster.
>
> Michael
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:59:12 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich"
Subject: Nazis and Solomani (was Re: Instant Zombie Bullets?)
> Are you planning to play _All Flesh Must Be Eaten_ when it comes out
> later this month?
[snip]
Interesting. It looks like someone has been reading Delta Green. :-) In that
game the Karotechia, an occult Nazi organization, were successful in
resuscitating casualties during WWII, which they promptly shipped to the
eastern front to plague the Russians. Gawd I like that game setting?
ObTrav: Are there any worlds in your Imperium that resemble Nazi Germany
during the 30s and 40s, either in ideology or action? Or perhaps some polity
that has started a local war of conquest on the fringes of the 3I? How
fascist are the Solomani anyway? Do you see the potential for them to take
human supremacy (or even Solomani supremacy) to the point of xenocide?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 23:57:41 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: JTAS - Rights
From:
> Uh . . . you do know that you get _paid_ for any article we publish?
> Consult the "Writing for Us" guidelines for a description of what
> rights are purchased.
Yes, but is it true, as Eris and William have both claimed, that anything
posted to the Pyramid / JTAS message board belongs to Steve Jackson Games
and can be used without paying the author?
> Loren (Back in the saddle again) Wiseman
> newly minted Editor, JTAS
Congrats and good luck!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 23:12:28 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich"
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
> Well, from this grognard's perspective, it looks like a way to soak me for
> more money.
I have to agree. If I could switch my Pyramid subscription to a JTAS
subscription, I would. But $30 a year for both seems a little steep to me
(especially considering I am also buying SJG products at up to $20 or more a
pop).
Ciao,
Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:13:47 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
E-chawomba! (a poor imitation of the sound Ewoks make)
Chris, I don't think that you understood the intent of *my* post. My intent
was to say that I can easily accept that robots and other computers are
different in some fundamental way, which makes their programming
incompatible. Why do I believe this? Because my experience with embedded
systems leads me to believe that there are indeed differences. Extending my
understanding of modern engineering to the hypothetical Traveller universe
leads me to believe this.
My post was not meant as a refutation of your post. It was not meant to
argue with your post, but rather to jot down an idea of two which seemed to
have some relevance to the thread. Perhaps there are readers of the TML who
have never considered how different embedded systems are from the more usual
type of computer they encounter, and so forth. "Hey!" I say to myself, "Just
like robots in Traveller."
Chris Seamans wrote:
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:23:12 -0500
From: "Delos"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1860
> Bullets have very little actual momentum and people shot tend to fall
> forward at least as often as backward. A rifle bullet will blow through
> before it knocks you down...Also keep in mind that a rifle usually
transfers
> its momentum to the skeleton (more likely to shove the body around)
> while a bullet often punches through soft tissue, not transfering much
> momentum to the whole body.
>
> Bolie IV
I don't mean to intrude and I am no firearms expert nor doctor, but it
seems to me that if you get shot it knocks you off balance (by making
you flinch or hitting a bone) then you might fall down. =)
Also, I think we might be overlooking the fact that in movies we see
bullets knocking the victim down to help symbolize injury. Just like the
characters in a detective show playing with a magnifying glass to symbolize
'examination of clues.' (Or putting their glasses on, etc.)
What sort of 'universe' do we want to portray? Cinematic universes are
less likely to have PCs that fall down when shot as opposed to more
life-and-death ones where you almost always fall down. To do things
realistically, maybe relying on a hit location chart can help make things
consistent.
Delos
delos@superior.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:49:31 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers
Dear Folks -
Chris wrote:
>If a ship's computer is capable of double checking a robot brain's response,
>then it's capable of doing what the robot brain does.
Writing from memory, I think that the robot will do certain things faster (eg.
pattern matching) than the big iron. The main computer certainly *can* do it
(albiet slower), but of course can do many other things as well.
>AI is expensive. - I suppose it's possible, but does comparison shopping
>between Robots and High Guard, or Robots and Book 2 bear this out?
Now *this* is a justification I can understand. From memory again, robot brains
ARE expensive in comparison to ship computers. A brain that is optimised for
piloting, however, may be cheaper. However, you'll still need the ship computer
to do all those other things, such as keeping the place warm and oxygenated, etc
etc.
I *think* there was a robotic ship's boat pilot in _101 Robots_ - I'll try and
remember to look this up over the weekend. Hmm, just putting in Pilot-2 is
probably cheap, but if you want the thing to *talk* you may need more
programming modules... $$$$$ ca-ching ca-ching! Microsoft - What Do We Want You
To Pay For Today? $$$$$
Something I'll have to think about when the boys try to get E.R.I.C. to fly
their ship... (had a great game last Friday: Adifux Inc LIC, Irving, Huey, etc
plus Michael Hughes as a ring-in. Hope your hand gets better soon! If it had
been cut off, is that one degree of separation?? ).
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:51:33 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: JTAS - Rights
On 02/03/00 at 11:57 PM, "Chris Seamans" said:
>> Uh . . . you do know that you get _paid_ for any article we publish?
>> Consult the "Writing for Us" guidelines for a description of what
>> rights are purchased.
I don't have a problem with your terms for the purchase of articles.
Electronic publication and first paper publication rights seem
reasonable for paid material. I'm also sure that a written contract
is signed by SJG and the author agreeing to terms.
>Yes, but is it true, as Eris and William have both claimed, that anything
>posted to the Pyramid / JTAS message board belongs to Steve Jackson Games
>and can be used without paying the author?
http://jtas.sjgames.com/login/amgr/subagree.html
I'm not sure if you can get here without logging in, but it's the
subscription agreement.
Look at Section G.
1. Posting any item to JTAS message areas grants permission for SJG
to archive and allow access to it. I have no problem with that.
They need that right.
2. It also grants "compilation copyright" on the contents of any
post where the author may not deny SJG, or its customers, the right
to use the content of your material. That's borderline. I
understand the *intent*, is for SJG to protect themselves, and allow
them to publish compilations, if they desire, but it does appear to
be reaching. Suppose SJG does publish a Book of Neat Ideas for
Traveller from ideas, suggestions and messages culled from their
JTAS message boards...will the authors of those items recieve
payment? Can they prevent SJG from including any of their material?
Nope, it doesn't look like it.
3. Any post not carrying an *explicit* copyright notice is assumed
to be a contribution to SJG, for use as SJG sees fit. They can
publish it in whole or in part under an SJG copyright. This one
*really* bothers me. You are agreeing that anything you post not
explicitly carrying a copyright notice is a *gift* to SJG and gives
them complete ownership rights to it. In answer to Loren's original
question...Uh, no I *don't* know that you get paid for this sort of
article even if it is published in whole or in part at some future
date.
So, these points in the first two paragraphs of Section G do concern
me. Not a lot, though.
They, and similar wording in the Pyramid Subscription Agreement,
didn't stop me from subscribing to Pyramid or JTAS. What they do is
cause a chilling effect on my participation beyond reading and
enjoying the articles posted there.
I feel a little petty bringing this up, but it does bother me. Feel
free to consider me paranoid in my concerns.
Eris, hum, maybe I should add a copyright notice to my sig
line...
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2000 by Eris Reddoch
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:06:56 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Question : Terran Federation
>From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
>Subject: Question : Terran Federation
...
>I dont want to start a Leroy argument, I want to stay in established cannon.
Spoilsport...
...
>2. Is it feasable to give the TF a 1 to 2 TL bonus for computers and
automation,
>and a 1 TL bonus on life science (Cryogenics?)
A number of people have expressed comfort with at least +1 TL in each.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:08:05 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Distances in 3D
Jason T. Barnabas wrote:
> From: Russell Bornschlegel
> > Although it always surprised me that going into 3D didn't change the
> > answer to the cube root of the sum of the cubes. :)
>
> I know what you mean. When I was first faced with this type
> of question, I didn't have any handy references, so I used a
> little logic... [logical derivation skipped]
I did exactly the same thing, Jason. :)
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 22:38:02 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Re: Pyramid & JTAS
At 11:35 PM 2/3/00 -0500, you wrote:
>From: "William F. Hostman"
>Subject: Re Pyramid & JTAS
>Not exactly. One of the reasons I won't sub to Pyramid is that the
>published ownership policy allows them to use ANYTHING a subscriber posts
>to the message boards with no more than a byline, and not always even that.
>Not that they have pulled that yet, but still the ability to do that is
>enough for me to boycott.
Good lord. You would think we were Microsoft . . .
The Usenet, as a whole, met this issue about seven years ago, dealt with
it, and moved on. But there is
always somebody who doesn't get the word.
From the subscriber agreement:
G. Ownership of Materials
By posting any item to the Pyramid message areas, you grant your permission
for Steve Jackson Games to archive it permanently, and allow public or
private access to it, as we see fit. By maintaining these discussion areas,
we acquire a "compilation copyright" on their contents. If you make a
suggestion here, you may not later deny SJ Games, or its customers, the
right to use that suggestion!
Any posting not carrying an explicit copyright notice is also assumed to be
a contribution to Steve Jackson Games, for any use the company sees fit,
including later publication in whole or in part under the SJ Games copyright.
>So, if someone were to post a
>fully realized adaptation of say, GURPS Castle Falkenstein, in theory they
>could publish it without paying the author of the adaptation, since all
>message board posts become property of SJG, but the issues pertaining to
>liscence still apply; in the case of CF, they could use it right away, as
>they are liscenced for it. SJG doesn't seem to be the type to screw someone
>that way (nor is it likely to do so more than once before litigation would
>ensue to challenge such ownership on such an item).
Yes, in theory, we could. Just exactly. So *don't do that* . . . If it
worries you, put a blessed copyright notice in your .sig file for
everything you send everywhere.
The alternative would be to say that if someone posted a fully realized
GURPS FALKENSTEIN to Pyramid, our authors would have to carefully avoid any
duplication, even accidental, even if *they wrote their version first*.
>I hope it provides a good tool. But web-zines are not the same as paper,
>microcopy, nor mailed-on-disk periodicals; you pay for a service, not for a
>product. They have the boon and bane of changeability; something you see
>there on day X may be gone on day X+1, and there are no back issues, so if
>you didn't print it out or D/L to disk, you're SOL; OTOH, you don't have to
>wait for the next issue in many cases; new stuff appears daily or weekly.
When it comes to back issues, you obviously haven't seen our archives. We
have every article from every issue archived. We are doing our best to
include all of the print issues as well. In fact, two new print issues
will be going up shortly, since we just hired someone to do just that
job. With any luck, the old issues of Space Gamer will be next. . .
>Look at the popularity of back issues of Challenge, Dragon, JTAS, TD, even
>the 4 issues of MTJ. They sell now for more than cover in many cases. The
>magazine itself was a tangible product with long term value. Web-zines are
>a service, with the product (the information) being value added, assuming
>you actually make a copy of the information for future use, but unlike
>physical subscription products, you can't resell the information by
>reselling the media as you'd have violated the service agreement.
You are absolutely right that you can't horde Pyramid in your closet and
then swap it on eBay like Beenie Babies. Even though it is a different
medium than Dragon, or Challenge, I think it's worth it.
I *never* bought Pyramid before it went online, and now I am getting them
as well as the nearly fourteen hundred Pyramid articles in our
database. Each year we have an average of nearly six hundred articles
posted. Even if you just look at those six hundred and your fifteen bucks,
I have a hard time seeing you getting ripped off. This isn't even taking
into account the playtests or spam free discussion groups either.
_____________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
Everything you do is Zen -- Bodhidharma
_____________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:36:48 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Automata
[This was originally sent of list to Michael the Diploma-Damaged TMLer...
He'd asked about robot designs for automation of Ships. This is a robotic
crewman, with all the bridge crew skills not requireing emotion sim. Note
that the brain alone is over MCr1; the rest of the robot is less than
KCr35. This is a pure Bk 8 design, although it should be TL 14, due to the
synaptic % of memory. ]
Michael:
I just bashed one together for you: an Excellent bridge design. It looks
like a 4-armed version of R2-D2...
URP and details
URP: 52202-74-RP325-5HF5 Cr1,277,195 1,277,195 kg
Fuel: 10 litres, 50hrs Dur 2day TL13
Hits: 20/50 (MT 7/13) Armor as Mesh
Brain and Power Interfaces on left leg.
4 arms, each max lift of 2kg
Head has dual vision systems, each Telescopic, Pass IR, LI equiped.
Head also has voder and audio sensors.
Skills at purchase (these can climb over time, due to synaptic processing
and storage)
Pilot-4
Navigation-4
Communications-4
Sensors-4
Ship Tactics-2
Maintenance: Cr1278 annually. Maximum finance duration 27 years. Expected
lifespan 55 years. Monthly payments will be nearly Cr4000, assuming 1/320th
per month (for 12 mo per year, over 27 years) with 20% down. HOWEVER, while
more expensive, it does have the advantage (even under MT) of STARTING
expert, and climbing from there! It has room for 2 more skill levels, plus
it can raise it's edu (and thus skill limits) with time. Also note that it
can store many more programs than it comes with; the maximum edu it can
obtain is F. The last 4 of the URP are the effective/apparent Str, Dex,
Int, and Edu, at purchase. Two of these should be able to handle any
routine bridge details.
TL13 -7.9 0 140.45 1277195
Item Level Power Vol Wt Pr
Basic Hull Ty III 0 -100 10 1,000
Config: Cyl 100
Fuel Cell Type C -45 40 41.25 1,000
Fuel, in hours: 50 10 0.7
Legs, Susp: 2 10 10 350
Legs, Trans: 45 22.5 22.5 45 675
Brain (See Detail) 1 47 14.8 1,243,250
Programs 0 0 0 23,800
Visual Sensors (T,LI,PIR) 2 7 9 1,400
Audio Sensor 1 1 0.5 50
Voder 1 1 3 1,200
Arm, VL 4 4 4 3,000
Power Interface 1 0.5 100
Brain Interface 1 1 1,200
Head, Percentage: 7 -1.4 -7 0.7 70
15.00% SynCPU Units Vol Wt Pr
18.87% SynMem
CPU,Linear 65 13 6.5 32500
CPU, Parrallel 20 10 2 200000
CPU, Synaptic 15 1.5 1.5 750000
Storage, Std 43 21.5 4.3 10750
Storage, Synaptic 10 1 0.5 250000
47 14.8 1243250
CPU Stor
Pilot 4 16 2000
Navig 4 16 2000
Commo 4 8 1600
Sensors 4 8 1600
Ship Tactics 2 16 1600
High Auton - 20 25 10000
Full Command - 3 5 5000
SubTotal 87 30 23800
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:54:48 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
>What it all boils down to, however, is that Traveller has a very specific
>taste. Part of this flavor requires characters to work on starships and
gain
>skill levels in the skills required in their operation. It's more exciting,
>it's more dynamic, and a case can be made that it's more fun. With this in
>mind, there's no need to create a handwave which: is full of holes and
>problems, or is stifling, or feels forced (or is, to some degree, an unholy
>combination of all three).
I agree on many points here and I must admit that my answer is not
scientific or even totally relevant!
I have just recieved a copy of Robots and I think it is the best thing
ever put out for traveller, I have robots everywhere now. Each stateroom has
a a valet/service robot on my PCs ship that the Steward oversees, these do
damage control during combat. The Engineer has a bunch of drive flunky
robots that assist him at work (little goblin-like guys) and the cargo
handling 'bots have a back up security program in case of boarders.
Can these 'bots replace humans at thier jobs? Well yes, probably. But
what would all the humans do? My TU is different, I try and remove as many
modern western influences as I can. The Services aren't like modern armies
and the modern "What is the most efficient" mindset is anethama to
Imperials. I like a far more Gothic/Rennaissance approach to everything. So
simply it's:
Tradition
For thousands of years humans have piloted ships, robots that are self
aware are given the biases of their creators. They'd be appalled if they had
to fly a fighter or man a turret, it flouts tradition. A robot has no
rights, it is property. In MTU they are serfs, generally not harmed in
fights but there to "add colour". Robots generally shoot at other robots
when called apon to fight, that way they don't kill humans and violate
restraint programming or whatever it's called.
Sorry if I've rambled too far but I thought I might just mention some
thoughts.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 00:06:27 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff about guns)
On Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:05:30 +1100, Robert O'Connor wrote:
> James Lindsay wrote :-
> > But what about the "shock" effect on a victim's nervous
> > system when their innards are subjected to this shockwave? Is *this*
> > particular aspect of HDS a myth?
>
> I'm not sure what you are referring to.
Neither am I, really :) It was from a discussion a long time ago. Simply
put, one of the participants claimed that the sudden "impact" of the outer
boundary of an expanding wound cavity on nearby nerve endings could cause
some sort of additional, incapacitating damage which couldn't be easily
identified as physical in nature.
IMHO, this opinion is based in myth-- but it is only an opinion. I was
hoping to seek out some facts.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
Cellular Text Messaging (604-834-0398): http://www.msg.clearnet.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Go Lemmings, Go!!!
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:27:12 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: THE SLR & GPMG
> The SLR was not a normal FAL. It was a made to imperial measurments not
> metric and most importantly the British version was not capable of
> automatic fire (though thre was apparently a much disapproved of way of
> circumventing this).
Yep, there was. It consisted basically of slightly breaking the weapon and
then firing it. Took a bit of skill to hold the two bits together enough to
stop the block from catching while firing.
I had it demonstrated to me by an officer who was an ex-WO1, and he
basically cradled the weapon across his knees to keep it steady.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 00:33:54 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
>From: Mark Cook
>Subject: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
What, no lions, tigers & bears?
As long as we're doing the humour thing how about some comments on this -
I recently overheard some Shadowrun/Cyberpunk gamers talking about firearms
and one was telling the others how the best weapon for teams clearing houses
is an SMG specifically rigged with a hair trigger*. Correct me if I'm wrong,
but isn't that just a tad over the line into sheer bleeping insanity?
Or perhaps in the rather rarefied atmosphere of their reality friendly
fire can't occur `cuz it ain't in the rules :)
*which was then described as something that could go off if dropped, and
in so doing continue to fire from the shock of recoil - which logically
applies to _every_ shot, dropped weapon or not...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:46:54 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
> On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson
> Luther Martin wrote:
> > The problem with nuclear war as a handwave is that the effects, although
> > quite serious, are not as devastating as people think. For example,
> > according to one study
(http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa009.html), the worst
> case scenario for an attack on the US was about 30% US casualties and 35%
of
> US industry destroyed. This is an appaling level of death and destruction,
> but does not come close to eliminating the US for good. Studies which I
have
> read estimate a 90% recovery from a full-scale nuclear war in about 30
> years.
> Read that article carefully. The authors cite those figures, then
> mention that even the authors of the study (done at SRI in 1974)
> considered the numbers to be wildly optomistic.
>
>This was also a study of a 'limited' nuclear exchange, with a total of
>about 800 MT used on US targets (about a third of the Soviet Union's
>total arsenal).
>
>What are the odds of a limited exchange (in which some 200 American
>cities are targeted) staying that way?
That's a lot more reasonable than it sounds. While they called it "limited"
it was actually as close to "Full" as it was likely to get.
It was expecting as much as a third of the Soviet 'nuclear arsenal' to
actually launch and get to it's target that was wildly optimistic.
At the time, a large proportion of Soviet delivery systems were not fueled,
or were inoperative due to faults, and their targetting systems were such
that getting a warhead within 30Km of it's target was considered a
bulls-eye.
And that's not even considering failures in flight, countermeasures, or US
first strike affects.
You also have to remember that the USSR could not afford to toss _all_ of
it's arsenal at the US, there was also Britain, France, and China to
consider.
For a while there, a nuclear war between China and the USSR seemed the most
likely scenario.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 22:11:23 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Pyramid & JTAS
> On Behalf Of Keith Johnson
> >Not exactly. One of the reasons I won't sub to Pyramid is that the
> >published ownership policy allows them to use ANYTHING a subscriber posts
> >to the message boards with no more than a byline, and not always even
that.
> >Not that they have pulled that yet, but still the ability to do that is
> >enough for me to boycott.
>
> Good lord. You would think we were Microsoft . . .
Thing is, if you're not Microsith, yuo don't need the agreement worded that
way.
> The Usenet, as a whole, met this issue about seven years ago, dealt with
> it, and moved on. But there is always somebody who doesn't get the word.
Actually, it seems SJG is the one that hasn't got the word.
Geocities tried this and got into huge strife, having to change their
agreement or risk losing most of their customers.
Usenet is completely seperate as it is a public forum where no-one is trying
to clainm ownership of the posts people are posting to it except the writers
of the posts, so why you mentioned it I have no idea.
> You are absolutely right that you can't horde Pyramid in your closet and
> then swap it on eBay like Beenie Babies.
Well, after the US is destroyed in a nuclear war and SJG's servers and
back-ups are melted down, I suspect I'll be able to get good money for _my_
copies of the SJG archives.
> Even though it is a different
> medium than Dragon, or Challenge, I think it's worth it.
I agree, BTW, Pyramid is worth the small cost (About the same as one and a
half paper magazines these days.)
I'm just not likely to post anything I might ever want to publish to your
newsgroups.
Frankie
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1861
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Traveller-digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1862
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: JTAS - Rights
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Galanglic
Re: Groundpounders and Law Enforcement (longish)
Re: Aging Rolls
Tips for *readable* messages (was Re: Distances in 3D)
Re: Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff about guns)
Re: JTAS - Rights
Re: Real Star Maps
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Re: Symbols for medical facility
Re: Symbols for medical facility
Re: Watches (Was: Frigate crew question)
Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
Re: JTAS - Rights
Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Re: Re Pyramid & JTAS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 01:27:40 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: JTAS - Rights
>From: "Chris Seamans"
>Subject: Re: JTAS - Rights
...
>Yes, but is it true, as Eris and William have both claimed, that anything
>posted to the Pyramid / JTAS message board belongs to Steve Jackson Games
>and can be used without paying the author?
One thing that's being overlooked here - without such a disclaimer the
playtest lists couldn't operate, as attempting to incorporate any of the
suggestions made would involve unrealistic amounts of trouble, and that
being the best case (i.e., that no one balked).
I don't recall whether that applies to the message boards themselves, though.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 04:44:51 -0600
From: Andy Holzrichter
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
>From: Bruce Johnson
>
>Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>> Now, I've fired some pretty impressive toys, and you can't easily
>> *carry* anything that chambers a round big enough to knock the firer
>> down.... =)
>
>A 4-Gauge Elephant Gun. That'll do it!
Actually the reports I've read on a 4 gauge elephant gun was that the
recoil was a nightmare and that it tended to spin the operator on firing.
Now if you did the typical neophyte stunt and held it a few inches
away from your shoulder because it is going to hurt...
Andy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:31:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Galanglic
In mail you write:
> forward. And we have little idea of what the language that
> developed into English was like 3000 years ago.
I thought they were fairly confident of the reconstructed
"Indo-European" proto-language?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:33:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Groundpounders and Law Enforcement (longish)
In mail you write:
> I was wondering about a situation where line infantry and line
> marines both have to perform civil police functions. Say a unit
> has taken a planet by surgical commando strike on the organs of
> government, including the police, and they have to keep a lid on
> the place until sufficient MP's arrive.
Anybody planning such *should* have included at least a *briefing* on
how to act as a cop. And included any and all MP/SP personnel he could
grab for the "second drop". Even *one* MP/SP per *city* would be better
than none. And *surely* the transports have Navy SPs for dealing with
problems during "leave".
> Or maybe the police go on strike _en masse_, and the only response
> the Governor can come up with *right now* is to station two
> Army troopers on each street corner.
In *this* case (and in the above) you impose "martial law" with *very*
simplified laws. Basicly a list of what's illegal (at a detail level
where even a grunt will get the idea). With the list subdivided into
sections.
Section one is "if they are doing this or trying to do it. you can
shoot them if they don't surrender".
Section two is "Try to take them uninjured and call for somebody to
haul them to jail. If you'd have to shoot them to stop them, let them
go."
Section 3 is "Tell them to knock it off, and try to get a good image in
your helmet cam if they don't"
Section 4 is "If they try to argue, call the Sargeant of the Guard and
let *him* deal with it."
In most cases, "call the Sargeant" will get a pickup team dispatched.
Assuming you've got the manpower. And there *will* be a curfew, just to
keep the problem more manageable. Violating Curfew is generally a "you
can shoot them"...
Frankly, I'd be tempted to just hit the whole place with anti-roit
agents like isolation foam or liquid banana peel. The foam would be a
good thing to use for "stopping" people.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 02:17:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
In mail you write:
> From: Leonard Erickson
>
>> Cloning won't help. Dolly has *old* DNA (ie it's got most of the
>> "padding" gone already). I don't recall hearing if she's shown signs of
>> early aging yet, but I *do* recall hearing that they'd confirmed that
>> the cloning process had *not* "regenerated" the "padding" (teleomeres).
>
> Actually, if there were a viable mind transfer method, cloning
> could help, providing the cells to be used were harvested
> early in life. Even if you didn't harvest 'til age 40, you could
> add 80 years to the maximum life span. If the cells were
> harvested from an infant and preserved cryogenically, you
> could add 120 years as often as you liked.
Until you ran out.
Also, there are some *nasty* moral questions here. Remember, a clone is
"merely" an identical twin produced in a somewhat unusual manner.
Would you try the same stunt if you were a test tube baby, and they'd
split your blastula into 8 or 16 cells and frozen the others while
implanting you? (ie when the fertilized egg had divided into 8 or 16
cells, they split those apart into individual cells (a standard
technique) and froze all but one, while implamnting that one, which
grew into "you" while the others were left on ice)
They'd be just as easy to transfer your mind into, and they'd avoid the
problem of short teleomeres?
See, that's the problem. There's *no* valid *scientific* reason for
considering clones to be any less "real" than the original. Which means
that you are destroying a person when you transfer your mind to a clone
(destroying the mind that was there, however immature).
I rather expect that in the Imperium *and* in the Zhodani Consulate
(and likely in the Solomani Confederation) this would be a capital
crime.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 02:28:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Tips for *readable* messages (was Re: Distances in 3D)
In mail you write:
> Box of sides A, B and C
*PLEASE* when posting multiline formulas (the "overline" of underlines
made these multiline) *or* when posting "tabular" data, set your font
to a *fixed pitch* font.
Every time someone doesn't, I (and anyone else using a different font
than you) have to spend time editing your messages into something
*readable*.
Likewise, be *very* careful about character choice. Many posts seem to
use "=92" as an apostrophe or a single quote. It displays as <=><9><2>
(without the angle brackets) on systems that don't implement Mime
"quoted printable" coding.
Other common problem characters:
char ASCII description
- ---- ----- -----------------------
"=85" ... ellipsis
"=91" ` grave accent, left single quote
"=92" ' acute accent, right single quote, apostrophe
"=93" " left double quote
"=94" " right double quote
"=95" * dot bullet
"=96" - en dash?
"=97" -- em dash?
Ditto for the *characters* for 1/2, 1/4, and 3/4.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 02:51:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff about guns)
In mail you write:
> James Lindsay wrote :-
>> But what about the "shock" effect on a victim's nervous
>> system when their innards are subjected to this shockwave? Is *this*
>> particular aspect of HDS a myth?
>
> I'm not sure what you are referring to.
> 'Shock' is defined _medically_ as a state where cardiac output cannot
> meet the metabolic demands of the tissues.
>
> Neurogenic shock occurs when peripheral vascular resistance falls e.g.
> secondary to a spinal injury, or with a vasovagal episode ('fainting').
> Similarly, cardiovascular and respiratory reflexes are well preserved
> until oxygenation is compromised, usually secondary to blood loss -
> hypovolaemic shock.
> The stress response is an amazing thing.
Yep. It's interesting though. An amazing number of things can lead to
at least "mild" shock. And you won't realize *what* is wrong, just that
something doesn't "feel right".
I learned that when I told a nurse friend that I was feeling "odd" and
after she checked a couple things and got me lieing down, she informed
me that I'd been going into shock!
I've since learned to recognize the symptoms (I've been involved in
stuff that got me "seriously" stressed frequently). And if I *didn't*
know what was going on, I'd have thought nothing "important" was wrong
right up to the point of collapse...
This is something to keep in mind for roleplaying. You can be right on
the edge of collapse and *not* feel all that bad.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 02:58:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: JTAS - Rights
In mail you write:
> From:
>
>> Uh . . . you do know that you get _paid_ for any article we publish?
>> Consult the "Writing for Us" guidelines for a description of what
>> rights are purchased.
>
> Yes, but is it true, as Eris and William have both claimed, that anything
> posted to the Pyramid / JTAS message board belongs to Steve Jackson Games
> and can be used without paying the author?
That may be true. But check the policy on "letters to the editor" in
your local paper. It says much the same.
>> Loren (Back in the saddle again) Wiseman
>> newly minted Editor, JTAS
It might be a thought to clarify that policy a bit, possible with some
examples.
I'm sure that the idea is to *not* have to pay for "just plain posts",
and to allow the staff to read posts *without* having to worry about
the "you stole my idea" lawsuits that *will* result if they don't have
such a policy.
That's why most tv and movie people won't even *open* unsolicted
manuscripts. Some fan will see a resemblance to their (anything *but*)
"original idea" and sue them.
If SJG is going to have folks who write stuff for them reading the
postings, they've *got* to have that sort of out. Or every time they
use an idea mentioned in a post (even if they already had it or it
wasn't at all original) they'll be wide open for a lawsuit. They'd
*likely* win such a suit (but you can't count on it), but it'd tie up
money, and cost them *time*.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:53:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Real Star Maps
In mail you write:
>>I'm just curious as I'm the kind that will multiply pi as
>>3.141592654 instead of the less retentive 3.14
>
> Yes, I too tend to use way more decimal places than are
> necessary, but I just don't know them for a parsec.
From part 4 of the sci.space FAQ:
1.496e11 m (15e10) -- Mean Earth-Sun distance (Astronomical Unit)
299792458 m/s (3e8) -- speed of light in vacuum "c"
9.46053e15 m (1e16) -- light year
206264.806 AU (2e5) -- one parsec
3.2616 light years (3) -- one parsec
3.0856e16 m (3e16) -- one parsec
Note that "c" is *exact* (defined constant). And the number of AU in a
parsec is actually calculable to *more\* places than that (it's
something along the lines of arctan(1 second) or arctan(0.5 second)).
The other figures are only accurate to the number of places given.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:00:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
In mail you write:
> At 05:21 PM 2/3/00 +1100, you wrote:
>>What I meant to infer was that the impact of the round was so great that it
>>knocked the target off their feet. If you've been struck by a high powered
>>bullet and knocked to the ground, then it's going to be very hard to get up
>>and keep going - no matter what inspires you (drugs, religion, carton of
>>cold, cold, cold VB after two days out bush).
>>
>>As for cannon hits, I guess it depends if you're in the path of the shock
>>wave (which I believe can turn your insides into jelly). That's going to
>>stop you too...
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>
>
> The concept of a bullet impact hitting hard enough to knock someone
> down on impact force alone is, on evaluation, not possible. One of Newton's
> Laws says that pushing one way at a certain force requires pushing equally
> in the opposite direction. So, for a bullet to have enough energy to knock
> a man down by impact forces alone implies that it must have enough *recoil*
> to knock the *firer* down.
> Now, I've fired some pretty impressive toys, and you can't easily
> *carry* anything that chambers a round big enough to knock the firer
> down.... =)
Only if they both mass the same. At 150+ kg, I can fire weapons that'd
knock a 75 kg attacker on his ass. But I *wouldn't* enjoy it.
I *don't* want to go up againt K'Kree firing projectile weapons. I
expect that their "rifles" brace against something along the lines of a
horse collar. And with 4 legs and their body mass, they can fire rounds
that would *really* do what so many bad special effects have .44 mag
rounds doing... picking the target up bodily and *throwing* him 10-20
feet backwards.
I'd not be suprised to find that K'Kree combat rifles use 20-30 mm rounds!
On the other hand, the digigrade stance of the Vargr may make it a lot
harder for them to brace against impact or against recoil. And they
seem to be more lightly built than humans.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:14:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> One *easy* method would have been a major nuclear exchange between
>> Northern Hemisphere nations. That leaves Africa, South America, and
>> Australia to restore civilization. Of course, South Africa and
>> Australia would catch a few nukes, too. So "English" might not figure
>> in the mix
>
> The problem with nuclear war as a handwave is that the effects, although
> quite serious, are not as devastating as people think. For example,
> according to one study (http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa009.html), the worst
> case scenario for an attack on the US was about 30% US casualties and 35% of
> US industry destroyed. This is an appaling level of death and destruction,
> but does not come close to eliminating the US for good. Studies which I have
> read estimate a 90% recovery from a full-scale nuclear war in about 30
> years.
>
> The unknown effects of things like nuclear winter could increase the number
> of casualties, but these effects cover areas much greater that the intended
> target of the attack. Studies which I have read estimate recovery from the
> environmental effects of a nuclear war in about 10 years. These studies are
> of dubious reliability, though. The authors always seem to have a political
> agenda which they aim to help with their study.
One thing that might help is that *chemical* weapons have some nasty
ecological effects if used over significant areas. Right up to
"anti-terraforming" large areas (killing most of the micro-biota that
are one of the big differences between "soil" and "finely ground rock".
Also, one thing that not even the most *pro*-nuke types will deny. If
the enemy decides to "waste" a small nuke on targeting a *surface*
burst on a nuclear reactor, *nobody* is going to want the surrounding
area, or a considerable stretch downwind for a long time. It's hard to
get a *dirtier* blast. Targeting a few places like certain sections of
Hanford would be equally bad.
Toss a few at the dams on the Columbia and a few other rivers, and most
of the downstream areas will be wiped clean. While I'm at it, I'd toss
a few small nukes at the aqueducts for LA. New York's water supply is
just as vulnerable, but its population is so densely packed that it'd
likely be simpler to just toss a *big* nuke at Manhattan.
> You probably have to throw in biological agents and other really bad stuff
> to reasonably eliminate a large country like the US. I have never read a
> study which estimates the damage such an attack could cause.
Smallpox could be *really* bad. My childhood innoculation (~45 years
ago) has probably worn off, only folks who got small pox innoculations
in the last few years before the end of innoculations would be likely
to have any immunities. Throw in a few good strains of the flu, and
you'll get a lot of people. Anthrax is a classic. And with all the
radiation, you might get some mutant strains of the war germs or even
of normal diseases.
Of course, the US and USSR tended to be targetted more for
"counterforce" attacks than for destroying the country.
I think the worst mess would be the commanders of subs who *might*
decide (in the absence of other orders) to monitor radio for signs that
enemy cities within range of the coast had been missed or were serving
as centers of re-organization. Then they drop a missile on them.
Petty revenge? Sure. Want to bet that *all* the crews are saintly
enough to forego it? Or that someone in authority might broadcast that
sort of "suicide pact" order after finding out that his shelter wasn't
as well sealed as had been planned?
And this is *just* the sort of thing that is why the Imperium is down
on *big* wars.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:43:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Symbols for medical facility
In mail you write:
> This topic came up on another (non-Trav) list I'm on; the
> question is placed before the TML and the Traveller-Culture list.
>
> What symbols - if any - are "universally" recognized as meaning
> "Medical facility - don't shoot; we're not a target"? Obviously,
> we will have the Terran Red Cross, with occasional uses (under
> very limited circumstances) of the Red Crescent, the Mogen David
> Adom, and the Red Lion-and-Sun. But what about the Vilani? Or
> the Syleans? Or any other major cultural influence on the
> Imperium?
There's a sort of "blue asterix" (think of the "red cross" but with
*six* narrower arms) on some ambulances.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:45:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Symbols for medical facility
In mail you write:
> Of course, that's all pretty Terran-centric -- but it works for me. Kind
> of makes me wonder if the Imperium still uses (or recognizes) the standard
> symbols for radiation, biohazard, and poison. And, if not, what replaced
> them ?
The radiation trefoil is so *simple* a symbol, that unless the Vilani
had a "nicer" one, I think it'll survive.
I don't see the Vilani having a "biohazard symbol", so ours would
probably survive.
On the other hand, they'd *need* a "poison" symbol that was quick and
easy to draw! Which means that we might adopt it from them. Especially
if it had the same "trilateral symmetry" as the other two (an *obvious*
Hiver manipulation! :-)
Ah! I've got it! Three green "thorns" arranged in a triangle, points
outward. The "bases" are flat (forming an empty triangle suitable for
writing ID codes in). The "sides" are a pair of concave arcs (ie
curving *in* towards each other). The distance from "base" to point
should be double the length of the base. I'm not sure if the arcs
should be portions of a circle, or some more complex curve.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:58:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Watches (Was: Frigate crew question)
In mail you write:
> There would be no need to rotate watches in space - there are no
> daylight/temperature changes to same some watches more popular than others.
>
> Of course this might not be the case on planetary bases, which brings up an
> interesting question - would you still stick with 24 hour days?
> I imagine if a planet has, say, a 26 hour day then this would be used
> locally, but it might be rather more difficult for say 16 hour or 35 hour
> days. Could the locals have adjusted to it over the centuries, or would
> they use a 24 hour day? (This could make sense, and a world would only need
> one time zone.)
I've thought about this a lot. I'm going to write an article someday.
A few terms first.
sol = local solar day (*real* terminology, check the various Mars Probe
data logs!)
dura = a division of the sol (invented terminology, swiped from David
Brin)
Sols will be *evenly* divided into duras. Duras will likely be
subdivided decimally (xx.yyyyy) simply because it's easiest, and you'll
have picked the length of a dura to make subdividing the sol in as many
ways as is practical (thus allowing for stuff like overlapping shifts
and shifts of differing length *without* making their lengths involve
fractions of a dur)
But the way I see it, 16 hours *is* something you can adjust to. There
are several ways of doing it.
One way might be 8-dura shifts with a day shift and a night shift (and
you could probably get away with 5 1/3 hrs of sleep (5 duras)). Or they
might divide the day into 3 five-dura shifts and 15-dura day.
35 hours isn't unreasonable either. But I bet they'd use a 36 dura
day and either 4 9-dura shifts or 6 6-dura shifts.
I'm pretty sure there's research on what sort of day lengths people can
adjust to. I figure that somewhere before 48 hours, they'd start using
schedules where the local day has *two* wake/sleep cycles rather than 1.
For *short* days, I'd have 8 hours as the lowest anybody would even
*try* to adjust to. Navy experience shows that people *can* operate
almost indefinitely on "watch and watch" (ie 4 hours on, 4 hours off,
repeat indefinitely).
But for something that short, I'd expect a 3 or 6 sol "week", with
folks working alternating sols. (So you'd work the full sol every third
sol).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 22:13:01 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
> As long as we're doing the humour thing how about some comments on this -
>I recently overheard some Shadowrun/Cyberpunk gamers talking about firearms
>and one was telling the others how the best weapon for teams clearing
houses
>is an SMG specifically rigged with a hair trigger*. Correct me if I'm
wrong,
>but isn't that just a tad over the line into sheer bleeping insanity?
>
> Or perhaps in the rather rarefied atmosphere of their reality friendly
>fire can't occur `cuz it ain't in the rules :)
It's obvious you don't play Cyberpunk 2020, 2% of all shots results in
fratricide and that IS the rules.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:23:13 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
shudson@mail.lightspeed.bc.ca wrote:
> As long as we're doing the humour thing how about some comments on this -
>I recently overheard some Shadowrun/Cyberpunk gamers talking about firearms
>and one was telling the others how the best weapon for teams clearing houses
>is an SMG specifically rigged with a hair trigger*. Correct me if I'm wrong,
>but isn't that just a tad over the line into sheer bleeping insanity?
Point guy pulls pin from grenade, "friend" stubs toe and shoots him in the
back, causing his body to fall through the door and release the grenade?
Neat tatic, NOT!
Besides, SMG with hair trigger for house clearing? Rubbish!
"FGMP-15! When you absolutely have to kill every m...f... in the room!"
[with apologies to Steven Spielberg]
> Or perhaps in the rather rarefied atmosphere of their reality friendly
>fire can't occur `cuz it ain't in the rules :)
In some groups, the euphamism for accidently shooting your own side is not
"friendly fire", it's "a win-win situation"
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:35:30 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: JTAS - Rights
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>2. It also grants "compilation copyright" on the contents of any
>post where the author may not deny SJG, or its customers, the right
>to use the content of your material. That's borderline. I
>understand the *intent*, is for SJG to protect themselves, and allow
>them to publish compilations, if they desire, but it does appear to
>be reaching. Suppose SJG does publish a Book of Neat Ideas for
>Traveller from ideas, suggestions and messages culled from their
>JTAS message boards...will the authors of those items recieve
>payment? Can they prevent SJG from including any of their material?
>Nope, it doesn't look like it.
I'd guess that SJG would need a clause like this so that people could
do what I am doing now - quoting your message in mine.
Especially if I had mangled the quote and claimed Doug had written it
or posted the entire digest and claimed that you had written everything.
>3. Any post not carrying an *explicit* copyright notice is assumed
>to be a contribution to SJG, for use as SJG sees fit. They can
>publish it in whole or in part under an SJG copyright. This one
>*really* bothers me. You are agreeing that anything you post not
>explicitly carrying a copyright notice is a *gift* to SJG and gives
>them complete ownership rights to it. In answer to Loren's original
>question...Uh, no I *don't* know that you get paid for this sort of
>article even if it is published in whole or in part at some future
>date.
Do they claim an exclusive or non-exclusive right?
And what would their reaction be if you added a "the bits I wrote are
my copyright" line to your sig?
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:41:51 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Frank G. Pitt wrote:
>
> For a while there, a nuclear war between China and the USSR seemed the most
> likely scenario.
>
"So who's on OUR side?"
"Six hundred million screaming Chinamen."
"Wait a minute. I thought there were over a billion."
"There were....."
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH!!
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 07:51:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Conley
Subject: Re: Re Pyramid & JTAS
> I hope it provides a good tool. But web-zines are not the same as paper,
> microcopy, nor mailed-on-disk periodicals; you pay for a service, not for a
> product. They have the boon and bane of changeability; something you see
> there on day X may be gone on day X+1, and there are no back issues, so if
> you didn't print it out or D/L to disk, you're SOL; OTOH, you don't have to
> wait for the next issue in many cases; new stuff appears daily or weekly.
> Look at the popularity of back issues of Challenge, Dragon, JTAS, TD, even
> the 4 issues of MTJ. They sell now for more than cover in many cases. The
> magazine itself was a tangible product with long term value. Web-zines are
> a service, with the product (the information) being value added, assuming
> you actually make a copy of the information for future use, but unlike
> physical subscription products, you can't resell the information by
> reselling the media as you'd have violated the service agreement.
>>
SJ Games and Pyramid has always keep extensive archives including an
ongoing project wtheir old Pyramid and Roleplayer magazines. So it never
just "Disappears". Also the old Pyramid traveller articles appear when you
use the search at JTAS.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1862
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Traveller-digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1863
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Pyramid & JTAS
Re: JTAS - Rights
Re: Nuclear war effects (OT)
Re: Sword Worlder names
Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
Distance between two worlds simple formula (FAQ!!)
Re: SETI@home monthly report
Re: Sad news...
Re: Pyramid & JTAS
Re: Re Pyramid & JTAS
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
Re: Aging Rolls
Re: Aging and TL
Imperial Varient: Margaret III: Rise to the Throne
RE: K'Kree firearms
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 03:59:59 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Pyramid & JTAS
"Frank G. Pitt" wrote
> Well, after the US is destroyed in a nuclear war and SJG's servers and
> back-ups are melted down, I suspect I'll be able to get good money for _my_
> copies of the SJG archives.
I was not aware that the SJG archives included the rules
for live action Twilight 2K which is what those of us
lucky enough not to be playing Deceased:The Rotting
will be doing. I don't think that an archive of
the current SJG archives will be worth much unless it
covers these important genres.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 03:05:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: JTAS - Rights
In mail you write:
> 2. It also grants "compilation copyright" on the contents of any
> post where the author may not deny SJG, or its customers, the right
> to use the content of your material. That's borderline. I
> understand the *intent*, is for SJG to protect themselves, and allow
> them to publish compilations, if they desire, but it does appear to
> be reaching. Suppose SJG does publish a Book of Neat Ideas for
> Traveller from ideas, suggestions and messages culled from their
> JTAS message boards...will the authors of those items recieve
> payment? Can they prevent SJG from including any of their material?
> Nope, it doesn't look like it.
"Compilation copyright" of the posts *doesn't* allow publishing
collections of the articles without checking with the authors. Or at
least it's unlikely that it'd allow *paper* collections. Online "best
of " collections would likely be covered.
What it *does* do is allow them to sue the hell out of anybody *else*
who tries posting a "best of" collection from the posts, especially
online.
I'm somewhat familar with this, from dealing with Compuserve for many
years. *They* assert compilation copyright (which takes *no* rights
away from the author, btw) to prevent file leeches from grabbing entire
forum libraries and then posting them on the web or a BBS.
> 3. Any post not carrying an *explicit* copyright notice is assumed
> to be a contribution to SJG, for use as SJG sees fit. They can
> publish it in whole or in part under an SJG copyright. This one
> *really* bothers me. You are agreeing that anything you post not
> explicitly carrying a copyright notice is a *gift* to SJG and gives
> them complete ownership rights to it. In answer to Loren's original
> question...Uh, no I *don't* know that you get paid for this sort of
> article even if it is published in whole or in part at some future
> date.
Part of that is requuired simply to legally publkish the stuff on the
web site! The other part is to prevent "you stole my idea" lawsuits
from idiots who are under the imp[ression that their unoriginal, poorly
described idea *had* to have been stolen when a loosely related highly
developed product is published.
Don't laugh. It *really* happens. And is so much of a hassle that TV
and movie people won't *touch* unsolicted manuscripts, and tend to
avoid newsgroups where fans of their shows hang out. *Print* authors
have had to leave "their" newsgroups when fans started posting "ideas"
for the same reason.
> Copyright 2000 by Eris Reddoch
You want to include a "rights statement" also. Something along the
lines of "First Electronic publication rights granted to Pyramid. All
other rights reserved"
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 04:38:38 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (OT)
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> Toss a few at the dams on the Columbia and a few other rivers, and most
> of the downstream areas will be wiped clean. While I'm at it, I'd toss
> a few small nukes at the aqueducts for LA.
When you think about how much damage one tiny nuke on
the Aswan dam would do to Egypt you begin to wonder if
it's a coincidence that Egypt was the first Arab country
to come to terms with Israel.
> I think the worst mess would be the commanders of subs who *might*
> decide (in the absence of other orders) to monitor radio for signs that
> enemy cities within range of the coast had been missed or were serving
> as centers of re-organization. Then they drop a missile on them.
> Petty revenge? Sure. Want to bet that *all* the crews are saintly
> enough to forego it?
In the incredibly unlikely event that an Arab country
was to conquer Israel I wonder if some Israeli military
leader might decide to nuke Mecca in a "last gasp" action.
It seems to me that the Arab leaders would have a rather
short life expectancy at that point as some of their more pious
countrymen, probably including some of their own bodyguards,
decided that the people responsible for the war had caused
the destruction of Mecca.
I think that having to make a Hajj to a pile of radioactive
glass might put a slight damper on Islam.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:46:34 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Bj?rn is apt to have an "oe" digraph in it.
It is not two sounds, but a single one, pronounced like the 'e' in
"herd".
> The Scandanavian languages have their own codepages for a reason.
> Expect things like the "o with a slash thru it" character, as well as
> the "umlauts" (diaresis, the double dot thing)
The "o with a slash" character is the same character as the "o with two
dots," but in different languages. Do your brains hurt now?
Swedish: "o with dots"
Norweigan: "o with slash"
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 13:53:48 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
"Luther Martin" wrote:
>With a lot of work you could probably move a program from a robot to a
>shipboard computer, but it would be a major undertaking. It's probably a
>fairly involved job, maybe requiring computer-4 or so to pull off. It's
>certainly not the kind of thing you will do casually.
IMHO
No, no, no!
In another thread we had the question of "could a engineer with computer-8
undermine the entire Imperial Banking System during the time spent in jump"
Allowing a couple of months for computer-4 makes it as easy as porting a
new video driver to Linux.
So that would mean you could build a starship computer with built in
Navigation-4 and Pilot-4. So people would. Then the pilots' union would
have to find something else to do.
Unless the fess were more than several tens of thousands per month, I'd rather
have a computer certified as Pilot-4 than an alien with some scrap of
battered plant fibre, who claims to be Pilot-1.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:53:59 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Distance between two worlds simple formula (FAQ!!)
Howdy all,
Jon Buller, the Human Analytical Engine, mulled over
the distance problem and came up with a simple function.
I've gone and dug it up. Here we go:
#
# $c1, $c2 are the column numbers in the hexes
# $r1, $r2 are the row numbers in the hexes
#
my $a1 = ($r1 + int($c1/2));
my $a2 = ($r2 + int($c2/2));
my $d1 = abs( $a1 - $a2 );
my $d2 = abs( $c1 - $c2 );
my $d3 = abs( ($a1 - $c1) - ( $a2 - $c2 ) );
#
# This snippet gets the lowest value of $d1, $d2, $d3
#
my ($dist) = reverse sort numerically ( $d1, $d2, $d3 );
return $dist;
Share and enjoy!
Hey, if this works, can we put it in the FAQ?
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:28:37 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: Re: SETI@home monthly report
SD Mooney said:
> At 4:18 +0000 2/2/00, "Chuck Morford" wrote:
> >I'm the new member of the team. I have 3 machines working 24/7 on the
> >SETI@Home project and should be able to process 4 to 6 data blocks per day.
>
> I've got a single PPC 603e 200MHz running whenever I'm not using the
> Mac - it's taking about forty hours CPU time to process a block, so
> it takes 3-4 days realistically.
>
That's odd, it only takes my 200MHz Pentium server about 10 hours
to process a work block. Sounds like the PPC client needs a little
optimizing...
--Cynthia
- --
(To be filled in with something clever or really dumb someday..)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:26:15 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: Re: Sad news...
Leonard Erickson said:
> In mail you write:
>
> > Voyage was a very nice book. In it we meet :
> >
> > Couerl - tentacled cat-like monster
Which is also the obvious inspiration for D&D's Displacer Beast.
> Slans (from "Slan") would be an interesting variant on the Zhodani
> peril.
>
> The Null-A books don't have much of use. The Weapons Shops of Isher
> could be interesting, especially given the restrictions on the weapons.
> They'd drive would be munchkins *nuts*. :-)
Hey, let's not forget "The Silkie", and various other classic
critters of Van Vogts: Easwals, anyone?
--Cynthia
- --
(To be filled in with something clever or really dumb someday..)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 06:01:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Pyramid & JTAS
In mail you write:
> Thing is, if you're not Microsith, yuo don't need the agreement worded that
> way.
>
>> The Usenet, as a whole, met this issue about seven years ago, dealt with
>> it, and moved on. But there is always somebody who doesn't get the word.
>
> Actually, it seems SJG is the one that hasn't got the word.
>
> Geocities tried this and got into huge strife, having to change their
> agreement or risk losing most of their customers.
>
> Usenet is completely seperate as it is a public forum where no-one is trying
> to clainm ownership of the posts people are posting to it except the writers
> of the posts, so why you mentioned it I have no idea.
Perhaps because of the section of his message that you *didn't* quote?
The one where he points out that without it, someone's post could
interfere with publication of similar ideas, EVEN IF THEY'D BEEN
ARRIVED AT INDEPENDENTLY AND BEFORE THE POST ARRIVED.
That's *not* an imaginary or "minor" concern. It's *very* real. It's
cost people *huge* sums of money defending themselves against twerps
who were *certain* that "their" idea had been "stolen" regardless of
how little it resembled the one they were suing over or how poorly
developed their version was.
Example. Someone could post something like "A game with super-tanks
would be neat" and then *sue* when GURPS OGRE or GURPS Bolo came out.
And if he found a typically sleazy lawyer, he could tie the release of
the games up for *years* and cost SJG thousands of dollars until they
finally eith managed to end the stalling in court or deciding to just
"buy him off".
And no, I'm *not* exagerrating.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 05:09:36 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Re Pyramid & JTAS
> Robert Conley wrote
Will Hostman wrote
> > I hope it provides a good tool. But web-zines are not the same as paper,
> > microcopy, nor mailed-on-disk periodicals; you pay for a service, not for a
> > product. They have the boon and bane of changeability; something you see
> > there on day X may be gone on day X+1, and there are no back issues, so if
> > you didn't print it out or D/L to disk, you're SOL;
> > SJ Games and Pyramid has always keep extensive archives including an
> > ongoing project wtheir old Pyramid and Roleplayer magazines. So it never
> > just "Disappears". Also the old Pyramid traveller articles appear when you
> > use the search at JTAS.
The point is not their current plans the point is that they
could change their plans or go out of business (unlikely
as hope that is). If you _buy_ a paper magazine they can't
take it away from you.
Personally if I were worried about loosing access I would
simply store them on my computer or on some form of
storage media, possibly even a printout (one copy only,
of course, per the agreement). Any such storage has costs
and risk of loss involved but so does storage of games on
paper.
> > Look at the popularity of back issues of Challenge, Dragon, JTAS, TD, even
> > the 4 issues of MTJ. They sell now for more than cover in many cases. The
> > magazine itself was a tangible product with long term value. Web-zines are
> > a service, with the product (the information) being value added, assuming
> > you actually make a copy of the information for future use, but unlike
> > physical subscription products, you can't resell the information by
> > reselling the media as you'd have violated the service agreement.
The question is what the net present value to you of your
expected possible resale of the Traveller products. If you
are concerned about return on investment you'd be better off,
IMNSHO, in the stock market. In addition concern about
resale value carries the (_heretical_) assumption that you
might ever want to sell any of your Traveller products
(although if you do I'd like first bid at your 101 Robots).
Are you suggesting that there is something wrong with the
notion of paying for a service, or merely that this service
is not worth $15 a year to you? You are willing to pay
for other services such as cable modems, cable TV, and local
phone services which typically (in Anchorage) charge a flat
monthly fee, what is wrong with doing the same for JTAS?
It seems to me that the key question is of hedonic pleasure.
Lets say that I pay $15 a year for JTAS online and I utilize
its service for 10 hours a year. I have then paid $1.50 an
hour (or slightly more in terms of net present value since I
have to pay now for what I read in November). How is this any
different than paying $4 (matinee price) for a 2 hour movie,
or $2 per hour? The only difference seems to be how much
you expect to enjoy that time.
[If you want to be truly pedantic about it you might claim
that if reading JTAS keeps you on line for an extra 10 hours a
year than you can depreciate your hedonic capitol costs for your
computer over a larger number of hours of pleasure attained,
but our discussion is easier if we ignore sunk costs & it is
more likely that your 10 hours of JTASing would simply replace
10 hours of some other pleasure.]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 06:18:04 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Stop - in the name of major wounds
...
>I *don't* want to go up againt K'Kree firing projectile weapons. I
>expect that their "rifles" brace against something along the lines of a
>horse collar. And with 4 legs and their body mass, they can fire rounds
>that would *really* do what so many bad special effects have .44 mag
>rounds doing... picking the target up bodily and *throwing* him 10-20
>feet backwards.
>
>I'd not be suprised to find that K'Kree combat rifles use 20-30 mm rounds!
IIRC, the CT Alien Module let them use Book 4 "high recoil" weapons w/o
penalty; we might extrapolate that their _equivalent_ to the human LAG
(a direct conversion would be no recoil, P = 8, D = 4) would be a much
bastier weapon with a KEAP(ER) round with about P = 10-12, D = 5-6.
Yuck...
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 06:18:44 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
>Subject: Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
>
>> As long as we're doing the humour thing how about some comments on this -
>>I recently overheard some Shadowrun/Cyberpunk gamers talking about firearms
...
>> Or perhaps in the rather rarefied atmosphere of their reality friendly
>>fire can't occur `cuz it ain't in the rules :)
>
> It's obvious you don't play Cyberpunk 2020, 2% of all shots results in
>fratricide and that IS the rules.
I would have been better off saying _cyberpunkish_ Shadowrun players :)
I haven't read the CP2020 main rules for years, but recently got the Deep
Space book to add to my 2300 AD collection :>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:19:49 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
At 12:33 AM 2/4/00 -0800, you wrote:
>>From: Mark Cook
>>Subject: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
>
> What, no lions, tigers & bears?
>
> As long as we're doing the humour thing how about some comments on this -
>I recently overheard some Shadowrun/Cyberpunk gamers talking about firearms
>and one was telling the others how the best weapon for teams clearing houses
>is an SMG specifically rigged with a hair trigger*. Correct me if I'm wrong,
>but isn't that just a tad over the line into sheer bleeping insanity?
>
> Or perhaps in the rather rarefied atmosphere of their reality friendly
>fire can't occur `cuz it ain't in the rules :)
>
>*which was then described as something that could go off if dropped, and
>in so doing continue to fire from the shock of recoil - which logically
>applies to _every_ shot, dropped weapon or not...
>
British Sten gun was used like this in German bunkers.... insert
magazine, cock action, toss in... listen to weapon bouncing around firing
at random and panicked German screams. Wait until noise subsides, open door
and recover weapon.
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 09:25:49 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Aging Rolls
Jason T. Barnabas writes:
>> This works for me, though it means that the aging system
>> presented in LBB1 implies that the average PC comes from
>> a pre-stellar society.
>Considering that the rules were written by people who came
>from a pre-stellar society with no thought to effects of TLs on
>aging, this is not unreasonable, IMO.
Oh, I agree (this goes for computer sizes, radio masses,
etc.). My purpose was merely to point out the implication
of the rule.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 09:32:37 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Aging and TL
Jason T. Barnabas writes:
>> On the other hand, if the X gene promotes higher rates of
>> reproduction in youth at the cost of aging effects later,
>> then it is easy to see how such a gene may outcompete its
>> competators. If this is the case, eliminating aging
>> without reducing health in some way may be tricky.
>If gene replacement therapy were developed, then you could
>have the best of both worlds. You would have your children
>at normal ages (in our "current" POV) and then the therapy
>to fix your age at whatever point represents the strongest,
>healthiest, etc. the human body can be.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "fix your age," but
twiddling with genes at various times in your life might
work. As TL advances, all the twiddling might be done
at once, with man-made genes programmed to turn on/off at
the approriate times. As a Traveller thing, I might use
that, but if you want to be reeeealy realistic this sort
of manipulation might not work if there are specific
physiological constraints inherent to our lifeform. It
might require redesigning the genome from the ground up.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:52:40 -0500
From: "Alvin"
Subject: Imperial Varient: Margaret III: Rise to the Throne
Margaret III, Empress of the Third Imperium
Grand Princess Patricia, heir to the Third Imperium
Strephon, as in Offical Traveller, ascends to the Iridium Throne
after the death of his father Paulo III in 1071. Unlike in the Offical
Timelime, however, Strephon dies in 1077 at the age of 28 while
engaged on a tour of a orbiting space station, due to catastrophic
life support failure of his personal EVA pod. The cause is traced to
faulty maintenance, and the investigation was closed, resulting in
the disgrace and imprisonment of the Petty Officer in charge at the
time. As Strephon died without issue (he hadn't married yet),
the crown fell to his sister Lt. Commander Lydia (Imperial Navy),
aged 25.
[ In the Offical Traveller Timeline, she would marry Duke Dresden
(b. 1051) of Sanches in 1092, and give birth to the twins Varian and
Lucan in 1094. (This birthdate was apparently shifted to 1088 for the
MegaTraveller period, to give Lucan more time to 'grow up'). In this
timeline, Empress Lydia would reign from 1077 to 1103, dying at the
age of 51 in battle against the Zhodani. She remained umarried and
childless throughout her 26 year reign. ]
Between 1077 and 1082, Empress Lydia spent most of her time working
to keep the Imperium united as a single cultural unit, even if only on a
superficial level. Her earnest attempts at bringing Imperials to "unity
around the Throne" was met with indifference by the populance and
suppressed giggling by the Nobility. Seeing that this was getting her
nowhere, Lydia instead shifted her focus, shifting much of her civil
authority to the Archdukes and Sector Dukes, while retaining sole
control of the Imperial military, as well as control of inter-Domain
and Imperial-wide trade. External relations were also kept strictly
in the Empress' hands.
By 1095, most of the major changes in government was in place, and
Lydia was planning to tour every sector of the Imperium when the
Fourth Frontier War broke out (1095-1105). The Zhodani poured in
from hidden bases in Gvurrdon, taking Rhylanor and were encircling
Mora by 1097, expecting the Imperium to surrender and come to terms.
The local nobility refused, and Lydia led several major Core fleets
into the Spinward Marches. She eventually took the war to Consulate
space, driving the Zho's competely out of Spinward Marches. Lydia
also used anti-psionic synthetic virii and chemicals to undermine
Consulate rule, but no major Zhodani rebellion broke out. She died in
battle at 1103, and the new Imperial commander negotiated an
armistice, eventually ending the war. After her death, the closest
surviving relative was Duchess Margaret Yetrina Tukera of Delphi,
who formally ascended the throne at 1104, at the age of 35. Margaret's
daughter Patricia became the Grand Princess, at the tender age of three.
Margaret III fought a series of short border conflicts against the
Solomani, (Solomani Border Wars, 1100-1110) eventually driving them
out their holdings in the Old Expanses. The Fifth Frontier War
(1109-1116) started with three sector's worth of Vargr warships ripping
into Corridor Sector while most of the Consular Navy either reconquered
the Ziafrplians Buffer Zone or supported the Sword World Confederation's
attack's on Lanth subsector, driving on to Mora.
The mighty Corridor Sector fleet was reduced to small enclaves and the
massive fleet centre at Depot by 1113, when the Gushemege and
Dagudashaag sector Fleet's - again led by the Empress, on her flagship
_Anaxias_, arrived to beat the Vargr back across the border. While
heavily battered, Mora never fell to the Zhodani/Sword World fleets,
and Trojan Reaches Fleet - freed from having to hold the rimward border -
finally came to Mora's aid in late 1115. The surviving fleet elements
retreated to Gram, where they made a successful stand against the
Imperial Navy in 1116. The Zhodani and the Sword Worlds made peace
with the Imperium in 1116, and the Vargr combatants throughout 1117.
The end of the Fifth Frontier War left the Imperium much more unified
militarily, but the Archdukes, Sector Dukes, and regular Dukes had all
expanded their civilian power base at the expense of the long-absent
Empress. Moreover, the various cultures of the Imperium, already
diverging before the Fourth Frontier War, had completely fissioned
into sector and subsector-wide regions: there is simply no longer any
such thing as "Imperial Culture", outside of the Imperial military. The
famous Dlan Resolutions were made in 1118, insisting that the Empress
reorganize the Imperium to address the new social structure of the Imperium.
Margaret III had the near-total support of the Imperial military, but decided
that she could not and would not threaten the Imperial economy in a war
merely to preserve the old Imperial structure.
At 001-1120, Empress Margaret III tabled two resolutions to the
Imperial Moot. One of them was for the dissolution of the Third
Imperium, effective at 365-1129. The second was for the formation of
the Imperial Federation as the legitimate successor government of the
Third Imperium, effective Holiday-1130.
While there is vigourous ongoing debate, Margaret had already
brought onside the major power brokers among the nobility
and the major corportations, and formal Moot agreement with Margaret's
plan is expected around 70-1120.
To be decided is who will become the new Archduke of Sylea, as the
Empress would be forbidden by the new Imperial Charter of Rule from
both ruling an archduchy and holding the post of Emperor. Margaret III
will be able to hold on to the Sector Duchy of Delphi, however. Also
unknown is who will become the new Archduke of Deneb, and Admiral
of the Marches.
Cyborgs - individuals who are more than 25% artifical - are expected
to be declared nonsapient by the Empress within this year (1120),
effectively forcing them to remove much of their cybernetics, be
enslaved as robots, or flee the Imperium. Also, the practice of psionics
will remain illegal within the upcoming Fourth Imperium, as the Psionic
Suppression Orders will still be enforced. Anit-Psionic devices and
materials, however, won't be prohibited. As before, limited exceptions
to psionic use will be made for non-human species, for example the
Droyne. The anti-slavery laws will be either weakened, or eliminated
entirely, depending on last-minute negotiations.
Margaret III has instituted a policy of encouraging territorial growth,
and after the Fourth Imperium is proclamed in 1130, plans to expand the
Imperium into Ley, Glimmerdrift Reaches and Hinterworlds sectors,
all to trailing of the Imperium, far from the major interstellar states.
Unfortunately, the planned expansion will have it's timetable shortened,
as the various smaller interstellar powers have learned of the Empress'
intentions and are gearing up for war. While the Hivers, K'kree and
Solomani governments don't plan to directly interfere, they are expected
to finance and equip proxy forces and "loan" military units to the local
powers.
Regardless, Margaret II has no intention to change her goal,
as the increase in war production should give a boost to
the economies of Ley, Delphi and Old Expanses economies.
Moreover, the new market's captured will increase the
wealth of the Imperial corporations, and indirectly the entire
Imperium. The planned expansion should impress both
member worlds and other interstellar states with the strength
of the Imperium, encouraging loyality and respect and
discouraging attacks. Finally, an increased military budget
keep's the Imperial Navy happy, and the possibility of new
fiefs, subsectors and sectors to rule should keep the politically
ambitious officers busy conquering new lands elsewhere, instead of
trying to subvert other nobles at home.
The Spinward Marches also has the personal attention of
the Empress. The region has been badly wounded in the
Fifth Frontier War, with about 5% of the Imperial population
killed ( or about 17 billion ). Jewell was the hardest hit, and is
being cleaned up and rebuilt to TL F standards, as a showpiece
to the Zhodani. Many major corporations are funding the
reconstruction, and the Empress - besides laying the framework
for the Fourth Imperium - is also putting a major economic
initiative to not only rebuild the sector, but to raise it's major
worlds to an overall TL E-F level. Count Norris Aledon
of Regina has been put in charge of the Aledon Plan, with
substantial support from his older brother, Duke Lawrence
Aledon of Regina Subsector. If it succeed's, a similar plan
will be put into effect for the entire Imperium, and the Count
may become a personal advisor to the Empress at capital,
be given one of the newly conquered subsectors at Glimmerdrift
Reaches or the Hinderworlds, or - maybe - even be elevated
to the position of Archduke of Deneb.
Margaret Tukera is married to Count Blaine Tukera, head of
Tukera Lines. She has four children, Grand Princess Patricia (19),
Prince Anthony (15), Prince Nicholas (11), and Princess Livia (9).
Grand Princess Patricia is currently on a goodwill tour of the Julian
Protectorate, and is expected to return to Capital at about 299-1120.
The Empress herself is something of an intellectual, retiring type, and
has not left Capital once since returning with the victorious Imperial
fleets in 1117. After the safe passage of her legislation, she plans to
retire with her husband to a secured Imperial reservation world for a
few months, probably within Core sector.
Alvin Plummer
"The only measure of this Imperium's value is its economic strength
and vitality. We may arrogate all manner of high purposes and beliefs
to this civilization, but we must not forget that it exist's only to allow
it's citizens to effectively interact on an economic basis.
All interactions between intelligent beings are economic, because
economics is the satisfaction of natural biological needs by social
means. We create societies by trading; we do not create societies
and then decide to trade to have something to do with our time.
Politics, statescraft, religion, and our own glorious Imperium;
these are all methods to create an environment within which beings
can go about their most basic business of trading the necessities
for healthy, meaningful lives."
- Duchess Margaret Tukera of Delphi, Offical Timeline, 103-1116
from "Survival Margin"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 09:42:51 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: K'Kree firearms
Leonard Erickson writes:
>I *don't* want to go up againt K'Kree firing projectile weapons.
>I expect that their "rifles" brace against something along the
>lines of a horse collar. And with 4 legs and their body mass,
>they can fire rounds that would *really* do what so many bad
>special effects have .44 mag rounds doing... picking the target
>up bodily and *throwing* him 10-20 feet backwards.
>I'd not be suprised to find that K'Kree combat rifles use 20-30
>mm rounds!
This is a frightening thought! Fortunately, K'Kree are
pretty rare in the region of space where my PCs generally
roam. I would imagine that K'Kree would be able to deal
with much higher recoil when firing straight forward than
to their side, and in fact are probably much less flexible
than humans in firing to the side or turning quickly.
Perhaps they are more easily panicked by flanck attacks?
By the way, the novel "Footfall" is an example of large
sophonts using heavy personal weapons. I don't remember
much about it, though.
>On the other hand, the digigrade stance of the Vargr may make it
>a lot harder for them to brace against impact or against recoil.
>And they seem to be more lightly built than humans.
With no idea of the canon stats, I give them lower strength
than humaniti, which makes lighter weapons more popular (in
general these have lower recoil).
Peez
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1863
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Traveller-digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1864
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Pyramid & JTAS
Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
RE: K'Kree firearms
Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
Re: Pyramid & JTAS
Imperial Varient: Margaret III: The Frontier Wars
Re: Sad news...
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Bouncing STEns...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:38:44 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Pyramid & JTAS
>I hope it provides a good tool. But web-zines are not the same as paper,
>microcopy, nor mailed-on-disk periodicals; you pay for a service, not for a
>product. They have the boon and bane of changeability; something you see
>there on day X may be gone on day X+1, and there are no back issues, so if
>you didn't print it out or D/L to disk, you're SOL;
Actually, every single issue of the electronic, web-based version of Pyramid
is online in its entirety -- and they're slowly converting the articles from
the paper version to electronic format. So you could spend hours reading the
back issues online.
Pyramid costs me $15 us a year, or about $21.60 Canadian at the current
exchange rate. And IMHO it's worth every penny.
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 06:10:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
In mail you write:
>>From: Mark Cook
>>Subject: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
>
> What, no lions, tigers & bears?
>
> As long as we're doing the humour thing how about some comments on this -
> I recently overheard some Shadowrun/Cyberpunk gamers talking about firearms
> and one was telling the others how the best weapon for teams clearing houses
> is an SMG specifically rigged with a hair trigger*. Correct me if I'm wrong,
> but isn't that just a tad over the line into sheer bleeping insanity?
>
> Or perhaps in the rather rarefied atmosphere of their reality friendly
> fire can't occur `cuz it ain't in the rules :)
>
> *which was then described as something that could go off if dropped, and
> in so doing continue to fire from the shock of recoil - which logically
> applies to _every_ shot, dropped weapon or not...
You've just reminded me of an assembly in junior High (7th grade),
many, MANY years back.
The speaker was somebody who was apparently well known for work in film
or TV westens. I didn't recognize the name, and I was seated so far
from the stage that I wouldn't have been able to recognize my own mother...
Anyway, he talked about gun safety. He mentioned that a lot of folks
had heard things about quick draw shooting that were not just *wrong*
but *dangerously* so.
"They hear that we use greased holsters. And they hear that we use hair
triggers. So they use *both*..."
He then described the typical results of trying a greased holster *and*
a hair trigger.... The guy grabs for the gun, his hand slips on the
grease, and the gun fires while pointed down his leg.
Which means the bullet *plows* this lovely *furrow* down the outside of
their leg. He said they had a nickname for that sort of idiot. Alas, I
forgot it long ago.
I do recall his demo of what the muzzle blast from a 44 colt revolver
firing a *blank* would do. He turned a sheet of newpaper 6 feet away
into confetti. We got the point. We also got half deafened... :-)
Obtrav: Some idiot tries to use a gun loaded with blanks to "bluff"
someone and gravely injures or kills them.
Or one of those idiots with the hair trigger skimps on gun maintenance
and the sear(?) wears a bit too much. He pulls the trigger and the gun
keeps firing until it runs out of ammo (or he can remove the magazine
or ammo feed tube).
This is a *real* malfunction that can occur in automatic (and rarely in
semi-auto) weapons. And it'll scare to shit out of just about anyone.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:02:16 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: RE: K'Kree firearms
At 09:42 AM 2/4/00 -0500, you wrote:
[snip]
>>On the other hand, the digigrade stance of the Vargr may make it
>>a lot harder for them to brace against impact or against recoil.
>>And they seem to be more lightly built than humans.
>
> With no idea of the canon stats, I give them lower strength
> than humaniti, which makes lighter weapons more popular (in
> general these have lower recoil).
>
>Peez
>
Either that, or the Vargr invested much more heavily into energy
weapons or gyrojet systems, allowing recoil to be a non-issue for them.
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 07:22:32 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
>From: Michel Vaillancourt
>Subject: Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
...
>>*which was then described as something that could go off if dropped, and
>>in so doing continue to fire from the shock of recoil - which logically
>>applies to _every_ shot, dropped weapon or not...
>>
> British Sten gun was used like this in German bunkers.... insert
>magazine, cock action, toss in... listen to weapon bouncing around firing
>at random and panicked German screams. Wait until noise subsides, open door
>and recover weapon.
So where would you want to be in a line of guys armed with such weapons
(and attitudes?)? :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:24:39 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
At 07:22 AM 2/4/00 -0800, you wrote:
>>>*which was then described as something that could go off if dropped, and
>>>in so doing continue to fire from the shock of recoil - which logically
>>>applies to _every_ shot, dropped weapon or not...
>>>
>> British Sten gun was used like this in German bunkers.... insert
>>magazine, cock action, toss in... listen to weapon bouncing around firing
>>at random and panicked German screams. Wait until noise subsides, open door
>>and recover weapon.
>
> So where would you want to be in a line of guys armed with such weapons
>(and attitudes?)? :)
>
Canada.
--Michel
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:28:20 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pyramid & JTAS
In a message dated 2/4/00 4:05:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
frankie@mundens.gen.nz writes:
> I'm just not likely to post anything I might ever want to publish to your
> newsgroups.
This, I think, is the key. I have no problems at all with SJG's policy,
as they probably couldn't risk offering an online 'zine without it. Every
online service I'm aware of has a similar caveat in its terms of service.
As a professional freelancer, though, I would *never* post anything to
a public forum if I intended to try to publish it later. Any public forum.
- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty
set of people who will take offense at it."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:48:33 -0500
From: "Alvin"
Subject: Imperial Varient: Margaret III: The Frontier Wars
The Fourth and Fifth Frontier Wars in the Margaret III timeline
"There is no avoiding war; it can be only posponed to the advantage
of others." - Niccolo Machiavelli
From 1050 onwards, Zhodani diplomatic policy revolved around
cutting off the Domain of Deneb off from the rest of the Imperium,
and turning it into an independent, pro-psionic state. Within the
Spinward Marches they promoted discontent with Imperial rule,
promoting the idea that the Marches should seceed from the Imperium
and pursue it's own destiny. Various psionic "do-gooder" organizations
were set up to demonstrate the superiority of pro-psionic policies
and the brutal oppressiveness of the Psionic Suppression Orders.
(Jedi Knights, anyone?)
Itinerant psionic healers worked with the common Marchman as a
"superior alternative" to standard psychology and much lower-level
medicine, at little or no cost. Psionic judges soon appeared, creating
a reputation of impartial, even justice while writing excellently argued
essays on the failures of Imperial justice. Underground psionic warriors
began to appear as folk heroes, righting wrongs and destroying
tyrants in the name of "Truth, Duty and Health". Soon, the majority
of intellectuals within the Domain was at least emotionally pro-Zhodani,
as most of the Western intellectual elite symphatised with the Communist
movements during the Terran Cold War era. The average Impy, however,
remained deeply skeptical and suspicious of the Zho's.
The Imperial government, trying to balance both positions, tried to increase
Imperial military strength *and* extend a policy of friendship to the Zho's
*and* beef up Psionic Suppression enforcement *and* relax economic
restrictions on Zhodani trade *and* propagandize against Zhodani
social/religious/political restrictions *and* encourage academic research
into Psionics. This confused and self-contradictory policy was an utter
failure, merely increasing everyone more reason to distrust the Imperial
government, and giving the Zho's more openings to press their case to the
public and to opinion-shapers.
Undermining anti-Zho attitudes was only one of the three arms of the
Zhodani strategy. As their propaganda campagin succeeded, they
began to build up the Consular Navy enormously, as well as dramatically
increase production of warbots within their realm. As a totalitarian psionic
state with solid goals in mind, the Zho's were quite successful in hiding their
preparations from the Imperial government, who were too involved in local
arguments to carefully pay attention to Zhodani preparations.
The Zhodani also began to promote a unified front against the Imperium
among the Vargr populance throughout Gvurrdon, Tuglikki and Provence
sectors, with the liberal use of money, psionic persuasion, cultural
exchanges and appeals to racial pride.
The Zhodani military struck at 1095, launching the Fourth Frontier War.
Rather than attacking the heavily fortified Jewell subsector, their navy
secretly massed at carefully prepared bases in Firgr subsector (Subsector -P,
Gvurrdon Sector), and struck rimwards, overwhelming Aramis subsector and
making deep intrusions into Rhylanor subsector. By 1097, the Zho's
(with numerous Vargr raiders) had taken Rhylanor subsector, including
Rhylanor itself, and were encircling Mora, conquering dozens of lesser
worlds throughout the Marches. The Zho's, in their desire to restrict
Imperial movements and information, began to spread across the
Coreward/Trailing quarter of the Marches, taking the weaker regions of
Imperial space, taking and occupying worlds ar far away as Lunion and
Mora subsector.
Early in 1097, the Zhodani began to send feelers to both the Imperial
government and the major planetary governments, promising freedom
from Zhodani occupation and psionic regulation if they would revoke
the Psionic Suppression orders, and leave the Imperium. The Zhodani
began to organize the worlds they took into a new puppet state.
The Republic of the Marches, with it's capital at Rhylanor, grew to a
maximum of 82 systems in 1098. It's borders closely matched with the
region of Zhodani conquest, dominating Aramis, Vilis, Lanth, Rhylanor,
and Lunion subsectors, and present in Regina, Mora, and Trin's Veil
subsectors as well. Besides Rhylanor, other high-pop systems within
the Republic was Aramanx, Junidy, Vilis, Zivije, Porozlo, Natoko,
Bevy, Lunion, Strouden, and Fornice. The Zhodani puppet-state
proclaimed it's independence from the Imperium, and was run by
Zhodani sympathizers. Zhodani thought police "on loan" to the Republic
rounded up as many social, business, military and cultural leaders as they
could, but avoided offending the general populance where possible.
Heavy emphasis was placed on repairing war damage, revealing Imperial
corruption, demonstrating the benefits of psionics, and finding talented
Republic citizens and training them in Psionics.
Meanwhile, Mora was battered and under siege, but never fell:
Jewell was completely bypassed, and Regina was never seriously
assaulted. Glisten and Trin, far from Zhodani activity to Coreward,
became the centre of Imperial resistance, reparing the few surviving
Imperial Navy vessels while trying to make up Imperal losses as rapidly
as possible.
With the majority of the Imperial and Colonial navies in the sector
destroyed, and only some planetary navies still resisting Zhodani power.
The Zhodani navy was too exhausted to continue offensive operations
against Mora, and was thrown completely out of Regina system, but
was strong enough to keep the major surviving fleets of the Imperium
bottled up in Glisten,Trin's Veil and Jewell subsectors. The Zho's
expected the central Imperial government to offically recognize
their defeat and come to terms. The Imperials never did.
As the local nobiliy and naval units fought the Consular Navy
from Glisten, Empress Lydia gathered up much of the naval forces
in the Domain of Sylea and the Domain of Vland, and drove on to the
Marches. At 292-1099, the major Zhodani and Imperial fleet's fought
a major action at the Second Battle of Rhylanor, resulting in the
resounding defeat of the Zhodani in the face of all that Imperial
firepower. Fleeing Zhodani and Vargr forces were swiftly hunted
down, and defeated in detail.
*****
"Sometimes it is entirely appropriate to kill a fly with a
sledgehammer." - Major Holdridge, 1994
With the threat against Imperial space now neutralized, most of
the Naval officer corps recommended an armistice with the Zhodani
government. However, Empress Lydia did not wish to give the Zhodani
a second chance to build up their strength, and wanted to bring the war
to the Zhodani while she still had an enormous war fleet under her, the
largest concentration of naval force since the Solomani Rim War.
Moreover, she felt that the majority of Zhodani naval strength
was spent attacking the Marches, and only weak if desperate
resistance would be faced within the Consulate itself.
At mid-1100, the Imperial Navy, lead by the Empress herself, had
taken Chronor subsector, much to the dismay of the Zhodani
government and people. Imperial forces continued to drive along a
coreward/spinward axis, and dominated Zdiadlevepra and Iavrdeiev
subsectors in Ziafrplians Sector, (Subsectors O and P ) the sector
immediately coreward/spinward from the Spinward Marches.
Paniced by the successes of the Imperial Navy and fearful of a
replay of the Solomani Rim War in their space, the Zhodani began
to throw everything they had against the Imperial fleets.
At 1101, as part of the campagin against the Zhodani, the Imperial
Navy began to spread various anti-psi chemical and biological agents
throughout Ziafrplians Sector, including most of the Zhodani-held worlds.
Some of these agents neutralized the psionic powers of the Zhodani
nobility, but most rendered the typical civilian a "null": their minds could
not be read by psionic means. This did NOT invoke any uprisings: there
was neither the organization or even much desire of the typical prole to
overthrow the Consulate, the only interstellar government they had ever
known in thousands and thousands of years. It did, however, greatly
reduced morale among the Zhodani intendant and noble classes.
At 1103, the Imperials were finally being held back to the the lower
quarter of Ziafrplians Sector, at Tilaqlive, Rollgagdas, Iavrdeiev, and
Zdiadlevepra subsectors (Subsectors K, L, O and P). Zhodani
counterattacks were foiled, however, and the Empress had reinforcements
coming in from the Domain of Vland to press on forward, due to arrive
within a year. Whenever these forces would have been sufficent to
complete the conquest of Ziafrplians Sector will have to be left for
historians to deal with, however, as Empress Lydia died in battle
as her ship, the _Ivory Wind_, sucessfully spearheaded a strike
against a major Zhodani naval base.
Upon her death, command of the expeditionary Imperial forces fell
upon Duke Grigori of the Spinward Marches. He had little
military experience, but did understand the strain that warfare was
placing on the Imperial economy, and felt - like most of the Imperial,
Domain, and Sector Moot's - that any conquests taken in Ziafrplians
could not be held for long. So he called for an truce with the Zhodani,
and they agreed in early 1104. A formal treaty ending the war was
signed in 1105: according to the agreement, the areas of Zhodani space
that the Imperials had taken became a buffer zone, jointly patrolled by
Zhodani and Imperial warships. The worlds themselves would be free
to govern themselves as they see fit: no restrictions would be placed
on psionic activities. No naval bases of any time would be permitted
in the Ziafrplian Buffer Zone.
Duchess Margaret Tukera of Delphi was eventually raised to the
Imperial Throne, and concluded the Solomani Border Wars
(1100-1110), a series of shirmishes and small land grabs that started as
Imperial attention began to focus on the Zhodani incursions. In
the meantime, the Zhodani nobility was thrown into the greatest
political crisis in centuries, perhaps millennia. The general population
screamed for vengeance, and demanded that the Consulate retake all of
Ziafrplians. Political dissent grew, and with the drastically cut number
of Though Police available, the nobility was at a complete loss on how
to suppress it - their knowledge of the usual government tools of
deception, propaganda, obscuration and rhetoric has long declined
through disuse. After all, why spend the time making plausable lies
when you can just MAKE the people believe what you want
them to believe?
The Zhodani nobles who lost their psionic powers began to openly
vent their anger and rage at the Imperium. The lost of wealth and
power was not the only basis of their hatred: in the offical Zhodani
State religion, those who have psionic powers are more holy and
righteous than those who don't. In effect, the nobles felt that the
Imperium has defiled their soul's, and commit a profound abomination.
Because the Consualte government had never had to practice intensive
domestic spin control for thousands of years, their ham-fisted reactions
and responses tended to simply make a bad situation worse. In the end,
they just blamed everything on the Imperials, instead of understanding
the actual situation. This explanation was largely accepted by the proles,
and was actually believed by many nobles and intendants as well. In their
righteous anger, they swiftly rebuilt their navy (at a economic cost of an
incredible but unknown magnitude): an unexpectedly large number of
Zhodani men *volunteered* to fight on the ground, allowing the
Consulate to retire most of their warbots for the first time in 1,500 years.
For all intents and purposes, the coming war would be a Zhodani crusade.
In the meantime, the reconquered Marches were awash in recriminations
and personal vendettas, now that the Zhodani had left. There were numerous
treason trials of planetary officals who willingly sided with the Zhodani, when
the Republic of the Marches still existed. Many leaders of society were
brainwashed or "mentally reconstructed" by the Zhodani were stripped of
their power and disgaced, as the Imperium did not desire to spend the time
and cash needed to repair all the mental damage to civilians inflicted by the Zho's.
A *lot* of Zhodani collaborators were killed by anti-psionic mobs, especially
on Rhylanor. The old pro-Zhodani intellectuals and organizations have fled to
Zhodani space, where they make up an interesting component of nearby
Zhodani worlds.
The Imperials were certain that they had smashed Zhodani power to such an
extent that the Zho's would not be able to recover for a century. They
woefully underestimated Zhodani determination to regain their worlds, the
number of lessons the Zho's learned in defeat, and the extent of economic
pain they would be willing to suffer to rebuild their fleet, and regain their worlds.
*****
"A good plan executed violently today is better than than a perfect plan
executed at some indefinite point in the future." - Patton
The Fifth Frontier War was launched in 1109, this time with a major
attack by the Vargr throughout Gvurrdon, Tuglikki, Provence and The
Windhorn sectors, paid for by Zhodani technology and money, and backed
with Zhodani training and selected squadrons to "stiffen" the Vargr.
At the same time, the Zhodani Navy fought aggressively against the Imperials
throughout the Ziafrplians Buffer Zone: the Spinward Marches Fleet
rapidly moved in to reinforce the Zone. Finally, a joint Sword
Worlder/Zhodani force struck at Lanth subsector in 1110, largely
controlling it by 1113. They forced their way to the Mora system in 1115,
but failed to crack the Imperial forces there despite repeated attempts.
The Vargr fought the Imperials across the coreward regions of the
Maches, Deneb, Corridor, and Vland. There was an unexpected
concentration of force against Corridor, and Corridor's navy was
reduced to small enclaves and the sector Depot until 1113, when
the Gushemege and Dagudashaag Sector Fleets arrived to relieve
the sector. The main Imperial fleets of the Marches were fighting
in Ziafrplians, so the Colonial and planetary fleets were left to fight
the Vargr. They were only rid of the Vargr incursions in 1115 when
Deneb Fleet, finally riding out the local strikes, came to the Marches
aid, defeating the last major Vargr "Super Horde" in Rhylanor subsector.
In the meanwhile, the Trojan Reach Sector Fleet was finally sent to relieve
Mora in late 1115. After successfully doing so, they continued to drive
the Zhodani/Sword Worlders right out of Imperial space, and into the
Sworld Worlds themselves.
By 1116, the Spinward Marches Fleet was finally forces to
admit defeat, and the Imperium withdrew from Ziafrplians Sector, but
not before again raiding most of the high-population worlds with both
military strikes and, more importantly, improved anti-psionic agents.
In retaliation, the Zhodani used NBC weaponry to main and kill billions
of Marchmen in lightining raids, especially in Jewell, Regina, Aramis,
Vilis, and Lanth subsectors. Rhylanor was too heavily patrolled for
successful raiding, but fourteen cities on Regina was nuked,
despite very strong resistance by planetary forces. (This was only the
second time Regina was seriously nuked in it's thousand years of
settlement: the first time was during the nasty Third Frontier War.)
Shaken by the outcry of the Marchmen, Sector Duke Robert ordered
a halt to the use of anti-psionic chemical and biological agents.
The final major battle was fought over Gram, where the battered
Zhodani/Sword World fleet's made a successful stand against the
Imperial Navy, and eventually retook a few of the Sword Worlds back.
A truce was eventually declared, leading to an armistice in 132-1116.
All the old Zhodani worlds in Ziafrplians were again a part of the
Consulate, but the Zho's failed to regain any of their worlds in the
Marches. The old Zhodani systems in the Marches began to from
their own governments, seperate from both the Imperium and
the Zhodani. The various Vargr forces either were destroyed, left
Imperial space, and/or made their own peace agreements with the
Imperium throughout 1117 and 1118.
*****
"People sleep peaceably on their beds at night only because
rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
- George Orwell
In 1120, the Spinward Marches is still rebuilding and repopulating it's
system's from the war: Regina herself suffered a typical ~5% population
loss ( 40 million ) and the plan to raise her TL from A to D was shelved.
Several of the smaller worlds (less than 100,000 in population) were
wiped out or evacuated entirely: the hardest hit high-pop worlds was
Jewell, who lost a full 75% of her population, falling from ~6 billion to
about 1.4 billion, while the local tech level collapsed from C to 7. The
Imperium has several major incentives to rebuild Jewell, and is deeply
involved in it's rebirth. The long-term aim is to make Jewell shine
as a beacon of Imperial prosperity and freedom, demonstrating to the
Zhodani the superiority oif the Imperial system. The class A port has
just been reopened as of 1120: it's still just a shell of it's former self, but
can build starships and major Sector-financed rebuilding continues.
The TL has been raised to A as of 1120: the Sector Duke plans to raise
it to TL F. The system government itself is now administrated directly
by the Navy.
Other Imperial systems damaged by the Fifth Frontier War are provided
some rebuilding funds and technical advise by the Imperium, but not
nearly on so lavish a scale. Vilis system, for example, lost one billion
people to Zhodani and Vargr strikes, but outside of humanitarian aid,
little funding or assistance has been provided by the Imperium. To
rebuild her infrastructure, the Vilis democracy has to obtain financing
from a multisector bank from Deneb Sector: as part of the terms of
agreement, SystemBank executives legally count as a large block of
votes in general elections, have various unique citizenship rights,
and has special tax and financial privacy privileges.
There is a fair amount of anger as this unequal treatment: however,
the Imperium is based on large-scale freedom, not on it's diametric
opposite, large-scale equality. Moreover, it's mainly the
high-tech/high-pop systems that is getting the best of it, with
mid-tech/high-pop systems doing OK: because the majority of the
population is getting theirs, the numerous but politically weaker worlds
have to hustle on their own to rebuild. If the government is smart
and fast, they can end up with a better, stronger nation than they had
before in less than twenty years. If not, they will be stuck in third-world
status: impoverished, with chronic political strife, and effectively owned
and run by outsiders. The major players are wealthy nobles, venture
capitalists, corporations who at least dominate a subsector, and certain
very influencial religious and ideological organizations. Minor players
includes anyone with, say, 30 billion credits to lend to a small but
hard-working population on a settler world.
[ FLASH: the above situation in the Marches may become shortly obsolete.
Empress Margaret III has a strong interest in economic matters, and is
currently working with Count Norris on the Aledon Plan, an economic
structure to not only rebuild the Marches, but raise the major worlds to
TL E-F. *IF* the financing and loan structure has been worked out, the
lesser worlds can ask the Imperium for direct assistance, instead of private
concerns: and not just for rebuilding funds, but for the cash to raise
the world to a greater tech level than before.
There are alway's strings attached to every gift: the strings here -
direct Imperial control of the planetary economy for 30 - 50 years -
is likely to be quite acceptable for worlds still recovering from the Fifth
Frontier War. The governments may be resistant to the cut in their
financial independence, but their populations - once learning of the offer -
is likely to put *extreme* pressure on their leaders to agree. Especially
as the vast majority of Marchmen are pro-Imperial to start with.
Despite the plans of the Empress, the Aledon Plan is unlikely to
be usable elsewhere in the Imperium - most high-pop Imperial worlds
are not in such desperate straits as to willingly sell their independence
to the Imperium, even temporarily. The Domain of Illeish might do
so on a large scale: but they don't want the plan run by the Empress,
but by someone they can trust implicitly, someone like Archduke Dulinor.
The Domain of Vland - led by Archduke Ishuggi - still doesn't want any
Imperial interference with planetary economic or social affairs, as they
remember the disasters of the Second Imperium like it was yesterday.
The systems in the Domain of Sol want's the *current* level of
Imperial control cut down, never mind increasing Imperial power.
The population and systems in the Domain of Sylea - the wealthiest in
the Imperium - dislikes the plan, as *they* will be paying for it with serious
tax increases: they pay enough to keep the Imperium together as it is! And
that's just for the Spinward Marches - they have no intention of
paying for the rest of the Imperium to be upgraded, no matter what the
Empress say's.... The Domain of Antares, with it's strong Vargr influence,
is not interested in centralized anything. And the Domain of Gateway,
while poor enough to be interested in the Aledon Plan, simply doesn't
have the population, the money, or the political muscle to make much
of a difference.]
The political situation is different in the Consulate. The general
population is absolutely united in their hated of all things Imperial: the
Zhodani government is currently enjoying an immense surge of patriotism,
while Imperial visitors are recieved with the deepest loathing
and contempt. On the other hand, the Zhodani are having a very hard
time rebuilding local psionic activities: the Olympiad had to be cancelled
for the first time in over 300 years due to various "intelligent"
psionic-targeted plagues the Imperium left behind. Governance
problems continue to plague the surviving psionic adminsitrators: all of
Zhodani society is based on psionics, and with the number of psi users
drastically cut, society is operating as far worse levels than usual. So
far, the Imperials can still be blamed for every problem, but within
ten years or so that will start to wear thin. Even worse, more and more
Zhodani - ever trusting in Consulate propaganda, however obviously
transparent - truly believe that the Imperium is the source of *every*
problem, and don't even bother try to do a little research to find and
fix the real source of their pain. This belief is quite prevalent even
among the surviving nobility and intendants, as well.
The standard of living across much of the Zhodani Consulate has fallen
sharply, similar to a crushing depression brought on by the enormous
war debts. Imperial observers suspect that the military debts of the recent
wars are effectively _unpayable_, and that the Zhodani government will
renounce them, bringing in even more financial chaos and possibly the
collapse of the government. (As these debts are owed mainly to other
Nobles, psionic-ruled Zhodani planets, and wealthy Zhodani corporations,
they can't be solved by simply mindwiping, or government fiat.)
The Vargr of Gvurrdon, Tuglikki, Provence and The Windhorn Sectors are
back to their endless routine of piracy and internecine warfare. Opinions
about the Zhodani are divided, but are somewhat negative - the Vargr
don't like being manipulated by psion's, especially human psions. On the
other hand, interest in psionics itself is on the upswing, and a few
psionic governments have arisen. The "Super Horde"or
"MegaWolfPack" organizations set up by the Zhodani require heavy
pisonic control to keep intact: some visionary Vargr are trying to set up
their own versions, with varying success. Several of the old
"Super Horde" commanders have banded together, and have founded a
large (150-system) empire in Provence Sector, where they supply raiders
into Corridor Sector with larger ships and better tech. In return, the
raider captains have to endlessly proclaim the fame, intelligence, and
ability of their patrons, increasing the charisma of the old commanders.
Alvin Plummer
"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names"
- John F. Kennedy (1917 - 1963)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:09:48 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Sad news...
Weren't those "Esvals"? From War against the Rull, right?
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Cynthia Higginbotham"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Sad news...
> Hey, let's not forget "The Silkie", and various other classic
> critters of Van Vogts: Easwals, anyone?
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:09:00 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
In a message dated 2/3/00 6:45:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> From: Eris Reddoch
> Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
>
> In <9a.a3a558.25cb4518@aol.com>, on 02/03/00
> at 03:54 PM, WriteFool@aol.com said:
>
> >>In a message dated 2/3/00 2:43:13 PM Central Standard Time,
> >>stuart.ferris@virgin.net writes:
>
> >> Should we really be happy that another Traveller institution has
> >>fallen into
> >> the hands of SJG?
>
> >> If it is only going to cater for SJG canon then I am not.
>
> If it is *only* GT, then it will be marginally useful for me. If it is
> mostly GT with a lot of generic (what I expect) then it will be useful.
> If it is a broad mix of all versions and milleux with plenty of generic
> hooks then it will be *very* useful. Right now, I'm very hopeful.
> >According to the site they are looking for material for all Traveller
> >eras, although putting things into GT stats as well as the original
> >system would also be appreciated.
>
> That's why I'm hopeful. That and the fact that LKW is editing it.
>
> >And given the efforts that Pyramid puts into running articles on other
> >systems (not perfect mind you, but pretty good for a "house" periodical),
> >I think we can expect coverage of the entire milieu.
>
> >There is one way to guarantee diversity though...send in your articles.
>
> I'll admit I have a little concern about that. I don't really like that
> anything I send them, or even post on a message board/chat, becomes their
> property. I understand it, and in their position would probably do the
> same thing, but I must say it does chill my desire to post...much less
> send in articles.
If it's like the usual, they maintain a compilation copyright on the posts,
you post would still be yours (all online services have such as a rule).
As for articles, I'd heartily recommend it. Otherwise.....
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:17:42 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
In a message dated 2/4/00 1:06:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> 3. Any post not carrying an *explicit* copyright notice is assumed
> to be a contribution to SJG, for use as SJG sees fit. They can
> publish it in whole or in part under an SJG copyright. This one
> *really* bothers me. You are agreeing that anything you post not
> explicitly carrying a copyright notice is a *gift* to SJG and gives
> them complete ownership rights to it. In answer to Loren's original
> question...Uh, no I *don't* know that you get paid for this sort of
> article even if it is published in whole or in part at some future
> date.
I believe that one is in violation of International copyright law, so I'm not
sure that it could be enforced.
(c) Bryan :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 08:23:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Cook
Subject: Re: Bouncing STEns...
Michel Vaillancourt writes:
> British Sten gun was used like this in German bunkers.... insert
> magazine, cock action, toss in... listen to weapon bouncing around firing
> at random and panicked German screams. Wait until noise subsides, open door
> and recover weapon.
Hmmm. I'm pretty sure I don't believe this and would *love* to see
supporting evidence. I know from personal experience that STEns can
AD when dropped, but it's usually only 1-2 rounds before the sear
re-engages the bolt.
- Mark C.
Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
NRA (Life), GOA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
Front Sight First Family member #1
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
mark f. cook * shoestring graphics & printing * markc@ssgfx.com
7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330 * http://www.ssgfx.com
Phone: 541-745-5709 Fax: 541-745-5818
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1864
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1865
Date: 2/4/00 12:27:49 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
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To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1865
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Jtas Copyrights
TIPS for readable messages, redux.
Re: Bouncing STEns...
RE: Vargr firearms
Re: Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff about guns)
Traveller Mailing List Solution (FAQ?!)
Re: TIPS for readable messages, redux.
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1860
Re: Nuclear war effects (OT)
Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
Re: Nuclear war effects (OT)
Re: Distance between two worlds simple formula (FAQ!!)
Re: Imperial Varient: Margaret III: The Frontier Wars
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
RE: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:25:55 EST
From: Damage169@cs.com
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
In a message dated 2/4/00 10:21:35 AM Central Standard Time, Kagehira@aol.com
writes:
<< > 3. Any post not carrying an *explicit* copyright notice.... >>
<< (c) Bryan :) >>
That's all it takes, a (c) followed by a date (even just the year) and a
name, and you've placed an explicit copyright on an article.
Doug (Simon Jester)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:27:48 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jtas Copyrights
In a message dated 2/4/00 4:53:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> If SJG is going to have folks who write stuff for them reading the
> postings, they've *got* to have that sort of out. Or every time they
> use an idea mentioned in a post (even if they already had it or it
> wasn't at all original) they'll be wide open for a lawsuit. They'd
> *likely* win such a suit (but you can't count on it), but it'd tie up
> money, and cost them *time*.
Also, all the writer's are fans we know anyway (so far at least), I don't
know any of them who would steal an idea without at least asking or giving
some sort of credit (of course accidents have happened here and there).
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:15:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: TIPS for readable messages, redux.
Leonard Erickson said:
> In mail you write:
Personally, I'm having problems with people posting MIME-encoded
letters in some mutant font like blah-blah-jp (that's you, Kiri)
or blah-windows-blah whatever (certain other TMLers).
My simple elm mail reader throws
up its hands in disgust and hands it to metamail, which doesn't
know what to do with it either, if I don't have the font in
question installed. So, I never get to see your doubtless interesting
and thought-provoking posts, and I am deprived.
Can we PLEASE reserve the MIME/HTML crap for sending Outlook
e-mail macros to say, other people on the corporate intranet who
all have the same mail reader? I like elm/metamail -- it displays
text very nicely, and lets me drop attachments where I want them.
It DOESN'T 'thoughtfully' try to run macros in unsolicited e-mails,
and it doesn't 'helpfully' open attachments for me and run them.
Woe is me, to be so deprived.
(And on the plus side, all spam that arrives as HTML posts is
so unreadable, I don't even have to preview it to delete it.)
Also, the quoted comments are all good, too, so I left them
attached.
--Cynthia
> *PLEASE* when posting multiline formulas (the "overline" of underlines
> made these multiline) *or* when posting "tabular" data, set your font
> to a *fixed pitch* font.
>
> Every time someone doesn't, I (and anyone else using a different font
> than you) have to spend time editing your messages into something
> *readable*.
>
> Likewise, be *very* careful about character choice. Many posts seem to
> use "=92" as an apostrophe or a single quote. It displays as <=><9><2>
> (without the angle brackets) on systems that don't implement Mime
> "quoted printable" coding.
>
> Other common problem characters:
> char ASCII description
> ---- ----- -----------------------
> "=85" ... ellipsis
> "=91" ` grave accent, left single quote
> "=92" ' acute accent, right single quote, apostrophe
> "=93" " left double quote
> "=94" " right double quote
> "=95" * dot bullet
> "=96" - en dash?
> "=97" -- em dash?
>
> Ditto for the *characters* for 1/2, 1/4, and 3/4.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:29:52 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Bouncing STEns...
At 08:23 AM 2/4/00 -0800, you wrote:
>Michel Vaillancourt writes:
>
>> British Sten gun was used like this in German bunkers.... insert
>> magazine, cock action, toss in... listen to weapon bouncing around firing
>> at random and panicked German screams. Wait until noise subsides, open door
>> and recover weapon.
>
>Hmmm. I'm pretty sure I don't believe this and would *love* to see
>supporting evidence. I know from personal experience that STEns can
>AD when dropped, but it's usually only 1-2 rounds before the sear
>re-engages the bolt.
>
> - Mark C.
Hi, Mark!
I heard this one from a Vet last Rememberance Day... my
understanding is that they were rounding off part of the catch to make them
more suceptible to this. Again, I don't know for sure, and it might have
been a tall tale... the chap in question was well decorated and did most of
the European campaign. However, as I say, purely annecdotal.
--Michel
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:40:56 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Vargr firearms
Michel Vaillancourt writes:
>> With no idea of the canon stats, I give them lower strength
>> than humaniti, which makes lighter weapons more popular (in
>> general these have lower recoil).
>Either that, or the Vargr invested much more heavily into energy
>weapons or gyrojet systems, allowing recoil to be a non-issue for
>them.
A weakness with my system is that, at least at lower TLs,
laser weapons are pretty heavy. I haven't really thought
about it much, but the standard Vargr laser carbine would
likely have a smaller power pack. I agree with the
probable increase in attention to recoil reduction systems.
IMTU, exceptional Vargr might still work up to a strength
of 13, so heavier weapons like autorifles, LAGs, and even
the PGMP-12 are still used, but the average soldier is
slightly weaker (-1 Str), so the standard weapons tend to
be lighter.
My rule for humans using Vargr weapons, and visa versa, is
a -1 DM on all attacks (owing to differences in body shape).
Is this reasonable? How do others handle this situation?
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:42:10 -0600
From: Chris Olson
Subject: Re: Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff about guns)
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> > James Lindsay wrote :-
> >> But what about the "shock" effect on a victim's nervous
> >> system when their innards are subjected to this shockwave? Is *this*
> >> particular aspect of HDS a myth?
> >
> > I'm not sure what you are referring to.
> > 'Shock' is defined _medically_ as a state where cardiac output cannot
> > meet the metabolic demands of the tissues.
> >
> > Neurogenic shock occurs when peripheral vascular resistance falls e.g.
> > secondary to a spinal injury, or with a vasovagal episode ('fainting').
>
>
>
> > Similarly, cardiovascular and respiratory reflexes are well preserved
> > until oxygenation is compromised, usually secondary to blood loss -
> > hypovolaemic shock.
> > The stress response is an amazing thing.
>
> Yep. It's interesting though. An amazing number of things can lead to
> at least "mild" shock. And you won't realize *what* is wrong, just that
> something doesn't "feel right".
>
> I learned that when I told a nurse friend that I was feeling "odd" and
> after she checked a couple things and got me lieing down, she informed
> me that I'd been going into shock!
>
> I've since learned to recognize the symptoms (I've been involved in
> stuff that got me "seriously" stressed frequently). And if I *didn't*
> know what was going on, I'd have thought nothing "important" was wrong
> right up to the point of collapse...
>
> This is something to keep in mind for roleplaying. You can be right on
> the edge of collapse and *not* feel all that bad.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
I need to pitch in here also. When I dislocate my shoulder in high school
(read practically destroyed), I was sent to the emergency room where the
nurses attempted to get an IV needle in me so they could administer a pain
killer/muscle relaxant. Nine tries later they had to get a doctor of some
years experience to do it at the elbow (not the hand like they would have
preferred).
Needless to say I was somewhat dismayed at the amount of time this took and
the additional pain I subjected to. It turns out that when I asked (not to
nicely), they let me know that my boold pressure had dropped severely from
shock and that when the needle pucntered the vein, it kept collapsing like a
balloon rather than remaining open for the flow of fluids and medication. I
was apparently rather close to a cardiac event, which may explain the amount
of people crowding around the bed toward the end of the torure.
Shock is not something to take lightly, as the only clue I had that something
was wrong was the difficulty in getting the needle in my veins... aside from
extreme pain in my shoulder I felt ok otherwise ...
Chris Olson
chris@pdaguy.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:48:09 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Traveller Mailing List Solution (FAQ?!)
All,
I have a solution to the Traveller Mailing List
conundrum: how to be subscribed and yet not have
to manage the volumes of mail coming in.
Solution: throw most of them away.
Method: I created a filter in Netscape:
From the messages window, go to "Edit"... "Message Filters"
1. click "New"
2. fill out Filter Rules form:
2.1 Filter name: Traveller Trash
2.2 the "to" of the message "contains" "Traveller"
2.3 click on "More" tab
2.4 select "Match all of the following" radio button
2.5 the "subject" of the message "contains" "Re:"
2.6 then "Move to Folder" "Trash"
3. "Ok"
This one puts all "Re:" messages from the Traveller
Mailing List in the Trash bin. You'll never see them.
Next, I put all other Traveller mail in the Traveller
folder. In the Message Filters dialog:
1. "New"
2. fill out form
2.1 Filter name: Traveller Save
2.2 the "subject" of the message "contains" "Traveller"
2.3 click on "More" tab
2.4 select "Match ANY of the following" radio button
2.5 the "to" of the message "contains" "Traveller"
2.6 then "Move to Folder" "Traveller"
(assuming you have created a Traveller mail folder)
3. "OK"
I've got this at home, and it works! I'm going to
implement it at work. I don't get the replied
threads, but who cares. I don't have time to paw
through the digest anymore. If I'm interested
enough I'll allocate time at the end of the week
or month to seach through the archives for the
threads I'm interested in.
It's a LOT less traffic even than the digest.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:52:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton
Subject: Re: TIPS for readable messages, redux.
Howdy!
Cynthia wrote:
> Leonard Erickson said:
> > In mail you write:
>
> Personally, I'm having problems with people posting MIME-encoded
> letters in some mutant font like blah-blah-jp (that's you, Kiri)
> or blah-windows-blah whatever (certain other TMLers).
> My simple elm mail reader throws
> up its hands in disgust and hands it to metamail, which doesn't
> know what to do with it either, if I don't have the font in
> question installed. So, I never get to see your doubtless interesting
> and thought-provoking posts, and I am deprived.
Hear hear!
>
> > *PLEASE* when posting multiline formulas (the "overline" of underlines
> > made these multiline) *or* when posting "tabular" data, set your font
> > to a *fixed pitch* font.
> >
...which begs the question of how the concept of "font" has any
place in an e-mail message (or any other text-only application).
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:57:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1860
Howdy!
Delos wrote:
> What sort of 'universe' do we want to portray? Cinematic universes are
> less likely to have PCs that fall down when shot as opposed to more
> life-and-death ones where you almost always fall down. To do things
> realistically, maybe relying on a hit location chart can help make things
> consistent.
>
Good point. It is useful to be aware of the realistic effects. Once you
know what is likely to happen in a realistic situation, you can decide
to add cinematic effects *for effect*. If you don't know, you are less
able to *cheat* on the laws of physics.
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:53:40 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (OT)
Peter Newman wrote:
> When you think about how much damage one tiny nuke on
> the Aswan dam would do to Egypt you begin to wonder if
> it's a coincidence that Egypt was the first Arab country
> to come to terms with Israel.
I thought it was because Syria or Libya or someone vowed to fight
Israel's presence down to the last Egyptian. :)
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:54:02 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
Phil Kitching wrote:
> In another thread we had the question of "could a engineer with computer-8
> undermine the entire Imperial Banking System during the time spent in
jump"
>
> Allowing a couple of months for computer-4 makes it as easy as porting a
> new video driver to Linux.
>
> So that would mean you could build a starship computer with built in
> Navigation-4 and Pilot-4. So people would. Then the pilots' union would
> have to find something else to do.
>
> Unless the fess were more than several tens of thousands per month, I'd
rather
> have a computer certified as Pilot-4 than an alien with some scrap of
> battered plant fibre, who claims to be Pilot-1.
Two potentially relevant thoughts.
First, even today, skilled hackers routinely compromise the fairly robust
security of the banking system. The losses are huge in absolute terms, but
are accepted by banks as a "cost of doing business." Even with the
additional losses, the gains from automation are substantial. Maybe this
trend continues into the future. At advanced TLs it may be possible for a
skilled and determined adversary to hack the Imperial Banking System in some
way, but the Imperial Ministry of Overseeing Hacking in the Banking System
accepts this as another cost of banking.
In addition to advanced tech skills, successful hackers of the banking
system must have a detailed understanding of how the banking system works.
There is no particular skill for this in Traveller, so a potential way to
keep players from doing this is to tell them that their knowledge of the
banking system is inadequate to pull off the Hack of the Century. Hacking
without this knowledge will almost certainly get them apprehended.
Second, perhaps the ultimate handwave of "not being generally accepted by
society" is needed to keep the role of robots minor. Just like psionics,
which have some serious major advantages, maybe robots are just not accepted
by people within the 3I. Just like psionics are widely used in some areas
outside the 3I, maybe robots are also. So you can travel to the right place
and see robots in use. Doesn't that sound like fun? Handwaving for technical
reasons is always dangerous, and tends to lead to logical inconsistencies.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:58:51 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
> At 12:33 AM 2/4/00 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >*which was then described as something that could go off if dropped, and
> >in so doing continue to fire from the shock of recoil - which logically
> >applies to _every_ shot, dropped weapon or not...
> >
> British Sten gun was used like this in German bunkers.... insert
> magazine, cock action, toss in... listen to weapon bouncing around firing
> at random and panicked German screams. Wait until noise subsides, open door
> and recover weapon.
This sounds bogus to me - no one brought a grenade? The gun doesn't
bounce itself into a relatively stable position (like lying flat on
the floor)? The gun isn't dented to unusability afterwards?
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:30:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (OT)
In mail you write:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
>
>> Toss a few at the dams on the Columbia and a few other rivers, and most
>> of the downstream areas will be wiped clean. While I'm at it, I'd toss
>> a few small nukes at the aqueducts for LA.
>
> When you think about how much damage one tiny nuke on
> the Aswan dam would do to Egypt you begin to wonder if
> it's a coincidence that Egypt was the first Arab country
> to come to terms with Israel.
I am told that in each of the wars with Egypt *after* that dam was
built, the Israelis sent in a mission that dumped a large paint bomb on
the dam... Sort of a cross between psychological warfare and a *very*
broad hint at what *could* happen if things went badly.
> In the incredibly unlikely event that an Arab country
> was to conquer Israel I wonder if some Israeli military
> leader might decide to nuke Mecca in a "last gasp" action.
> It seems to me that the Arab leaders would have a rather
> short life expectancy at that point as some of their more pious
> countrymen, probably including some of their own bodyguards,
> decided that the people responsible for the war had caused
> the destruction of Mecca.
>
> I think that having to make a Hajj to a pile of radioactive
> glass might put a slight damper on Islam.
It's worse than that. They don't pray towards *Mecca*. They pray
towards the Black Stone (thought to be a meteorite) that's set into one
corner of the Kabba. A good hit could vaporize that. Making even daily
prayers rather problematical.
But anybody, *especially* the Isrealis, doing that had better hope that
it's their *dying* act. Because they won't survive it long.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:39:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Distance between two worlds simple formula (FAQ!!)
In mail you write:
> Howdy all,
>
> Jon Buller, the Human Analytical Engine, mulled over
> the distance problem and came up with a simple function.
> I've gone and dug it up. Here we go:
>
> #
> # $c1, $c2 are the column numbers in the hexes
> # $r1, $r2 are the row numbers in the hexes
> #
>
> my $a1 = ($r1 + int($c1/2));
> my $a2 = ($r2 + int($c2/2));
>
> my $d1 = abs( $a1 - $a2 );
> my $d2 = abs( $c1 - $c2 );
> my $d3 = abs( ($a1 - $c1) - ( $a2 - $c2 ) );
>
> #
> # This snippet gets the lowest value of $d1, $d2, $d3
> #
>
> my ($dist) = reverse sort numerically ( $d1, $d2, $d3 );
>
> return $dist;
Be careful. There are *two* ways of numbering Hexes. Traveller uses
one, but some old hex maps (and possibly some blank hex maps you might
buy) are numbered differently.
In Traveller the row numbers run "horizontally in a sort of "zig-zag".
In the other method, they run straight... *diagonally*.
You need *different* formulas for the two types.
3
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 18:29:52 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Imperial Varient: Margaret III: The Frontier Wars
At 16:48 04.02.00 , you wrote:
>The Fourth and Fifth Frontier Wars in the Margaret III timeline
Excellent! Cool! WOW! THIS is fun!
This is what i´d like to see and read more of! Excellent work Alvin... If
you expanded further on this, you might do a net sourcebook someday! I´d
sure like to see a sourcebook based on this alternate future. I have not
read half of it and i find it increasingly hard to concentrate on my
studies while i ponder the possibilities.
WOW! Give us more!
Volker
This is what i´d like to ------------------------------Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:13:55 PSTFrom: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)Subject: Re: JTAS copyrightIn mail you write:> In a message dated 2/4/00 1:06:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, > owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:>>> 3. Any post not carrying an *explicit* copyright notice is assumed>> to be a contribution to SJG, for use as SJG sees fit. They can>> publish it in whole or in part under an SJG copyright. This one>> *really* bothers me. You are agreeing that anything you post not>> explicitly carrying a copyright notice is a *gift* to SJG and gives>> them complete ownership rights to it. In answer to Loren's original>> question...Uh, no I *don't* know that you get paid for this sort of>> article even if it is published in whole or in part at some future>> date.>> I believe that one is in violation of International copyright law, so I'm > not sure that it could be enforced.Nope. It's a statement that if you don't wish your material treatedthat way, you must mark it in a certain way (add a copyright notice). Nobody is *forcing* you to post. So if you post without a copyrightnotice, you are agreeing to abide by their rules (which *are* legalif agreed to)> (c) Bryan :)And that's *not* a copyright notice. There's no year, for one thing.- -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferredleonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort------------------------------Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:10:31 PSTFrom: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)Subject: Re: JTAS copyrightIn mail you write:> In a message dated 2/4/00 10:21:35 AM Central Standard Time, > Kagehira@aol.com > writes:>> << > 3. Any post not carrying an *explicit* copyright notice.... >>> << (c) Bryan :) >>>> That's all it takes, a (c) followed by a date (even just the year) and a > name, and you've placed an explicit copyright on an article.Nope. You have to *spell out* "copyright". That's because the *only*legal alternative to spelling it out is the "c in a circle" symbol,which isn't available in many character sets (like the one I'm using)and has different values in the ones that have it. The "(c)" is *not* equivalent to the symbol.Of course, except in situations like these, you don't have to deal with*either* as the normal default state has been "copyrighted unlessexplicitly marked otherwise" for more than 10 years. - -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferredleonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort------------------------------Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:30:46 -0700From: Bruce Johnson Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))Luther Martin wrote:> > Two potentially relevant thoughts.> > First, even today, skilled hackers routinely compromise the fairly robust> security of the banking system. The losses are huge in absolute terms, but> are accepted by banks as a "cost of doing business." Even with the> additional losses, the gains from automation are substantial. Maybe this> trend continues into the future. You haven't actually _worked_ in the banking industry, haveyou...:-/A friend of mine in the IT section of a very large bank (that shallremain unnamed in some eastern Citi...:-) told me about a programmerworking on their systems, who asked for and recieved root password, asallegedly she needed that level of access.About an hour later she came into my friends office and asked "Umm, youdon't have a recent set of backup tapes, do you?"Apparently she'd decided to remove a bunch of stuff that seemed like itdidn't belong in her home directory, so she did an 'rm -rf'...asroot..._in_ root.Also, remember this: all their IT outsourcing goes to the lowest bidder.No one YET knows the full costs of all the Y2K stuff...they were letting_complete_ strangers have access to their entire source code...> In addition to advanced tech skills, successful hackers of the banking> system must have a detailed understanding of how the banking system works.Which is why all the successful 'hacks' involve serious insider aid.Know what the simplest hack I've heard of in a long time was? It was the bunch who put an ATM into a mall at Christmastime a few yearsago, only it was _their_ ATM. You walked up, stuck in your card, punchedin your PIN, and the thing came back a few minutes later saying "Unableto contact your bank" or 'Sorry, out of cash" or somesuch.Meanwhile they were harvesting card numbers and pins to use for banktransfers to their own accounts.They got caught, of course, because they were greedy, and let the scamcontinue too long.The second simplest hack of automated banking systems was the otherbunch who were going around to standalone ATM machines with a tow truck.They were simply yanking the things out of the ground and tearing offwith them, removing the cash at their leisure.- -- Bruce JohnsonUniversity of ArizonaCollege of PharmacyInformation Technology Group------------------------------Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:26:46 -0600From: "Derek Dees" Subject: RE: Pretty colors on the Subsector MapWell, I'd say a simple scheme that says Ag, industrial, mining,information/data, by category. Doesn't matter if it's legal or not and itshouldn't be product specific (e.g. teal = hemp, veridian = corn), sincethat would drive everybody crazy. For more detailed information, consult thedatabase.While a general database wouldn't contain more than general information, agood trader would know the products and where they were/weren't legal.Derekdjdees@mm.comhttp://www.mm.com/user/djdeesSarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person whodoesn't get it.> -----Original Message-----> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of> david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 10:52 PM> To: traveller@mpgn.com> Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map>>> Dear Folks ->> Jeff said:> >The problem of coloring for trade classifications is that you> >have to either designate colors for each possible (legal)> >combination...> [snip]> >For "border" sectors, especially in a Hard Times or early Milieu> >Zero type of environment, coloring on the basis of polity> >membership might be useful.> >> >Then, there's coloring purely on the basis of the spectral> >classification...>> etc etc.>> What you are after are plastic overlays. Do a base map, then three or four> overlays, each one showing something different.>> Base Map - System positions (outline circle), gas giants, world names> Overlay 1 - borders and polities, xboat and trade routes> Overlay 2 - trade classifications> Overlay 3 - spectral classification>> Any takers?> ------------------------------------------------------------------------> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"> ------------------------------------------------------------------------> REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those> of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the> position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.> ------------------------------------------------------------------------>>------------------------------End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1865***********************************To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:unsubscribe traveller-digestin the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com".If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail iscoming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append thataddress to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe"local-traveller":subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.netA non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; tosubscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"in the commands above with "traveller".Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
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Traveller-digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1866
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
RE: Pyramid & JTAS
RE: JTAS copyright
Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Nazis and Solomani (was Re: Instant Zombie Bullets?)
Re: Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff about guns)
Re: Sword Worlder names
Re: JTAS - Rights
Re: JTAS - Rights
Re: Nazis and Solomani (was Re: Instant Zombie Bullets?)
Re Medical Symbols
Re: Jtas Copyrights
Re Webzines
Re Imperial Symbology
[none]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:26:46 -0600
From: "Derek Dees"
Subject: RE: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Well, I'd say a simple scheme that says Ag, industrial, mining,
information/data, by category. Doesn't matter if it's legal or not and it
shouldn't be product specific (e.g. teal = hemp, veridian = corn), since
that would drive everybody crazy. For more detailed information, consult the
database.
While a general database wouldn't contain more than general information, a
good trader would know the products and where they were/weren't legal.
Derek
djdees@mm.com
http://www.mm.com/user/djdees
Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who
doesn't get it.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 10:52 PM
> To: traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
>
>
> Dear Folks -
>
> Jeff said:
> >The problem of coloring for trade classifications is that you
> >have to either designate colors for each possible (legal)
> >combination...
> [snip]
> >For "border" sectors, especially in a Hard Times or early Milieu
> >Zero type of environment, coloring on the basis of polity
> >membership might be useful.
> >
> >Then, there's coloring purely on the basis of the spectral
> >classification...
>
> etc etc.
>
> What you are after are plastic overlays. Do a base map, then three or four
> overlays, each one showing something different.
>
> Base Map - System positions (outline circle), gas giants, world names
> Overlay 1 - borders and polities, xboat and trade routes
> Overlay 2 - trade classifications
> Overlay 3 - spectral classification
>
> Any takers?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
> of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
> position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:40:25 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Pyramid & JTAS
> On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
I'm answering a couple of your posts in one reply here, Leonard, so don;t
get confused
> That may be true. But check the policy on "letters to the editor" in
> your local paper. It says much the same.
That's because letters to the editor are _intended_ for publication in the
newspaper, and thus as permission to publish is required, and it's easier to
get permission up front ( by default in that case).
In fact, that's a recent development, in the past, the writer had to
explicitly give permission in the letter for an editor to use it in the
paper.
To save time they provide a specific "addresssee" for 'public' letters and
another for non-public letters.
***************************************
> Perhaps because of the section of his message that you *didn't* quote?
Which was because IMO that part was pretty irrelevant to the point,
but I'll outline why below
> The one where he points out that without it, someone's post could
> interfere with publication of similar ideas, EVEN IF THEY'D BEEN
> ARRIVED AT INDEPENDENTLY AND BEFORE THE POST ARRIVED.
>
> That's *not* an imaginary or "minor" concern. It's *very* real. It's
> cost people *huge* sums of money defending themselves against twerps
> who were *certain* that "their" idea had been "stolen" regardless of
> how little it resembled the one they were suing over or how poorly
> developed their version was.
Taken to the logical conclusion, that means that anyone who ever writes
anything, anywhere, can never read or have read anything else.
To be more specific, no writer for SJG may ever read the TML, or any RPG
related Usenet newsgroups.
There is no more chance of someone successfully sueing SJG in that way over
a posting to an SJG newsgroup than there is of someone on the TML doing so,
as the ownership of the group is irrelevant to the legal argument, which
relies on proving that the SJG writer read the appropriate post and used it.
That's just as easy to prove on the TML or Usenet as a whole.
Therefore, as the clause does not protect SJG anymore substantially then
they already are protected, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that
they _intend_ to make use of such postings, in the same way that the "letter
to he editor" example you mentioned _intends_ to make use the letter.
> Example. Someone could post something like "A game with super-tanks
> would be neat" and then *sue* when GURPS OGRE or GURPS Bolo came out.
> And if he found a typically sleazy lawyer, he could tie the release of
> the games up for *years* and cost SJG thousands of dollars until they
> finally eith managed to end the stalling in court or deciding to just
> "buy him off".
Thing is, your someone can do that anyway, whether it was posted on an SJG
news group or not. All he needs is some evidence that a person involved in
the production of the work read it, where that work was is irrelevant.
And BTW, in your movie studio case, saying that they have a policy of not
reading unsolicitied manuscripts is only a minor addition to any defence.
It only helps prove "good intentions" and then only if they can show their
'policy' was actually followed by staff
The main reason for the policy is that most unsolicited manuscripts are
junk, and they'd like to reduce the volume they recieve.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:44:54 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: JTAS copyright
> On Behalf Of Damage169@cs.com
>
> Kagehira@aol.com writes:
>
> << > 3. Any post not carrying an *explicit* copyright notice.... >>
> << (c) Bryan :) >>
>
> That's all it takes, a (c) followed by a date (even just the year) and a
> name, and you've placed an explicit copyright on an article.
But under international copyright law, even that isn't neccessary, as
you have copyright on anything you publish (even on Usenet) unless you
explicitly relinquish it.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:37:44 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
Bruce Johnson wrote:
> You haven't actually _worked_ in the banking industry, have
> you...:-/
Even worse. These days, I design, build, and sell cryptographic hardware
and software. Banks ("the rich and paranoid") are our best customers. Our
products are used to secure over $7 billion of financial transactions every
day. If banks would buy even more of our stuff, they could even further
reduce their losses.
It's very interesting talking to customers. They have business problems
which they want to solve, but some quirk of their industry makes the obvious
and elegant solution unworkable. This will probably continue in the future,
so that organizations in the Traveller universe will do all sorts of unusual
things because of these unusual requirements. Another handwaving motivation?
It's done that way because of some arcane regulatory issue within an
industry.
Cryptography actually gives you the ultimate handwave. Why can't you just
copy that 2 MCr piece of software and install it in your ship? Because
cryptographic copy protection is used (existing technology). Why can't you
do the game universe>? Cryptographic protection of the makes
it infeasible. No pseudo-physics required.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:42:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
Frank G. Pitt writes:
> But under international copyright law, even that isn't neccessary, as
> you have copyright on anything you publish (even on Usenet) unless you
> explicitly relinquish it.
And a user agreement in a public forum stating that you relinquish it unless
specifically stated otherwise is 'explicitly relinquishing' the copyright.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:50:20 -0800
From: "David P. Summers"
Subject: Re: Nazis and Solomani (was Re: Instant Zombie Bullets?)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:59:12 -0600
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich"
>ObTrav: Are there any worlds in your Imperium that resemble Nazi Germany
>during the 30s and 40s, either in ideology or action? Or perhaps some polity
>that has started a local war of conquest on the fringes of the 3I? How
>fascist are the Solomani anyway? Do you see the potential for them to take
>human supremacy (or even Solomani supremacy) to the point of xenocide?
While the blurbs on the Solomani always play up the supremacy
aspect, if you look at the actions of the Confederation, they
have been more nationalistic than anything else. (Getting
"our" space back, freeing terra, etc.) so my take is no.
Though one certainly could play up that aspect if one wanted
to.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:50:29 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff about guns)
On 02/04/00 at 12:06 AM, "James W. Lindsay" said:
>On Thu, 03 Feb 2000 23:05:30 +1100, Robert O'Connor wrote:
>> James Lindsay wrote :-
>> > But what about the "shock" effect on a victim's nervous
>> > system when their innards are subjected to this shockwave? Is *this*
>> > particular aspect of HDS a myth?
>>
>> I'm not sure what you are referring to.
>Neither am I, really :) It was from a discussion a long time ago.
>Simply put, one of the participants claimed that the sudden "impact" of
>the outer boundary of an expanding wound cavity on nearby nerve endings
>could cause some sort of additional, incapacitating damage which couldn't
>be easily identified as physical in nature.
I can't speak from personal knowledge, the only person I was ever
with that was shot neither fell down, suffered hydro
(dynamic/static/or whatever you want to call it) shock or died. My
father discharged a 12 gauge shotgun with the barrel resting on his
boot...no it *wasn't* a smart thing to do. The shot went
between his big and next toe...mostly. He yelled and cursed loudly
(the only time I ever heard my father curse) and bled out more than
a pint before we got him to the hospital. I must admit he was
pretty shocky by that time.
Here's the thing though, getting stabbed, shot, or punched for that
matter *hurts*, and I don't know about you, but when I get hurt I'm
apt to jump or jerk. If I'm walking, I'm apt to fall down or
stagger back.
So is it the kinetic energy of the blow? Nah, not usually. It was
your own body reacting to the injury. I'd bet that stopping power
relates more to doing enough painful damage to make the victum's
body react than anything else. If the injury doesn't "hurt" and
being boozed up or drugged out probably goes a long way to making
most anything hurt less.
Just a layman's WAG, so feel free to ignore me.
Eris,
BTW, after the accident my Pop gave me his shotgun and bought
himself a new one. I always wondered about that.
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Say, should I copyright this too? Copyright 2000 by Eris Reddoch
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:17:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Bj?rn is apt to have an "oe" digraph in it.
>
> It is not two sounds, but a single one, pronounced like the 'e' in
> "herd".
I never said it *was* two sounds. That digraph (o & e run together)
represents a particular sound and *doesn't* stand for "o sound followed
by e sound" anymore than the "ae" digraph stands for "a sound followed
by e sound".
>> The Scandanavian languages have their own codepages for a reason.
>> Expect things like the "o with a slash thru it" character, as well as
>> the "umlauts" (diaresis, the double dot thing)
>
> The "o with a slash" character is the same character as the "o with two
> dots," but in different languages. Do your brains hurt now?
It may represent the same *sound*. It's *not* the same *character*.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 15:11:38 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: JTAS - Rights
On 02/04/00 at 12:35 PM, Phil Kitching said:
>eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>>2. It also grants "compilation copyright" on the contents of any
>>post where the author may not deny SJG, or its customers, the right
>>to use the content of your material. That's borderline. I
>>understand the *intent*, is for SJG to protect themselves, and allow
>>them to publish compilations, if they desire, but it does appear to
>>be reaching. Suppose SJG does publish a Book of Neat Ideas for
>>Traveller from ideas, suggestions and messages culled from their
>>JTAS message boards...will the authors of those items recieve
>>payment? Can they prevent SJG from including any of their material?
>>Nope, it doesn't look like it.
>I'd guess that SJG would need a clause like this so that people could do
>what I am doing now - quoting your message in mine.
No, not quote, that implies citing authorship. I think it's there
so they don't have to defend themselves from potential lawsuits. I
understand their point of view, they are CTA...if you know what I
mean. As I said I'd do the same in their place. Doesn't mean I
have to like it from *my* point of view, though.
>Especially if I had mangled the quote and claimed Doug had written it or
>posted the entire digest and claimed that you had written everything.
It's more a matter of keeping a clear trail of ownership, I think.
>>3. Any post not carrying an *explicit* copyright notice is assumed
>>to be a contribution to SJG, for use as SJG sees fit. They can
>>publish it in whole or in part under an SJG copyright. This one
>>*really* bothers me. You are agreeing that anything you post not
>>explicitly carrying a copyright notice is a *gift* to SJG and gives
>>them complete ownership rights to it. In answer to Loren's original
>>question...Uh, no I *don't* know that you get paid for this sort of
>>article even if it is published in whole or in part at some future
>>date.
>Do they claim an exclusive or non-exclusive right?
>And what would their reaction be if you added a "the bits I wrote are my
>copyright" line to your sig?
Good questions. Someone a SJG would have to answer that as I
certainly don't know.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:35:56 -0800
From: Keith Johnson
Subject: Re: JTAS - Rights
At 07:51 AM 2/4/00 -0500, you wrote:
>It might be a thought to clarify that policy a bit, possible with some
>examples.
>
>I'm sure that the idea is to *not* have to pay for "just plain posts",
>and to allow the staff to read posts *without* having to worry about
>the "you stole my idea" lawsuits that *will* result if they don't have
>such a policy.
>
>That's why most tv and movie people won't even *open* unsolicted
>manuscripts. Some fan will see a resemblance to their (anything *but*)
>"original idea" and sue them.
>
>If SJG is going to have folks who write stuff for them reading the
>postings, they've *got* to have that sort of out. Or every time they
>use an idea mentioned in a post (even if they already had it or it
>wasn't at all original) they'll be wide open for a lawsuit. They'd
>*likely* win such a suit (but you can't count on it), but it'd tie up
>money, and cost them *time*.
Thank you Leonard. You summed it up much better than I did.
White Wolf stepped in a huge can of worms when they opened up the Forums on
their web site. There was no disclaimer, and White Wolf authors could no
longer participate in the forum (or even read it) for fear of being sued if
any book has anything similar to something that was posted in the forum.
It would be wonderful if we didn't have to include any legal mumbo jumbo at
all, however that isn't the world we live in.
_________________________________________________________
Rev. Keith Johnson /\ keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster /()\ keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games /____\ reverendkeith@hotmail.com
"I choose you, Dullinor!" - PokeTrav Master
IMTU tm++@ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:32:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: Nazis and Solomani (was Re: Instant Zombie Bullets?)
> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:59:12 -0600
> From: "Joseph R. Dietrich"
> >ObTrav: Are there any worlds in your Imperium that resemble Nazi Germany
> >during the 30s and 40s, either in ideology or action? Or perhaps some polity
> >that has started a local war of conquest on the fringes of the 3I? How
> >fascist are the Solomani anyway? Do you see the potential for them to take
> >human supremacy (or even Solomani supremacy) to the point of xenocide?
In the universe I write, and sometimes used as a TU, which is nowhere near
as old as the OTU, there were planets where certain groups wouldn't let
anyone other than members of a specific group settle. These planets have
refused to ratify the Constitution of the Terran Federation. Some of the
Terra Firsters think that the Federation should protect them against the
Daelzu, the Khalanghaari, and anyone else who might want to mess with
them, because "they're Terran too" but since they don't pay taxes to or
acknowledge the authority of the TIA (Terran Interplanetary Authority)
this is a pretty hot issue between the "we're all Terran" faction and the
"I don't want to pay for their protection" faction. One of those planets
is in fact called "Lebensraum" and Jasmine Hawkes of the League for Terran
Repatriation is quite shocked when they won't allow her son-in-law to
leave the ship because he's a Jew.
I figure eventually every weird fringe group that can will colonize.
That's the best way to really get away from other people and be
isolationist. Of course a lot of these colonies fail. That one probably
should have, but it gave the PC's and the readers something to be
justifiably annoyed with--Nazis in space. We also had fundamentalists of
all stripes in space, hippies in space, and everything else you can think
of in space.
Nazis that were getting their butts kicked by the Daelzu, who have been
doing "master race" a lot longer-- but Nazis in space none the less. And
I kind of enjoyed letting the Nazis get their own dose from bigger badder
genocidal maniacs.
The biggest problem between Terra and the Daelzu however was a little
colony defiantly named "We Got Here First". Which was settled by
red-blooded American pioneer manifest destiny types, as if you couldn't
tell that from the name, and they ARE Terran through and through, which
meant the Federation did end up fighting for that bit o' space.
The Shiratori Colonies were at what the Daelzu wanted to be the outer edge
of Terran expansion (for now-- the Triumvirate really would like to wipe
all of us out).
All info in this post re my universe is copyright 2000 Kiri Aradia
Morgan. =)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:32:45 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Medical Symbols
>> This topic came up on another (non-Trav) list I'm on; the
>> question is placed before the TML and the Traveller-Culture list.
>>
>> What symbols - if any - are "universally" recognized as meaning
>> "Medical facility - don't shoot; we're not a target"? Obviously,
>> we will have the Terran Red Cross, with occasional uses (under
>> very limited circumstances) of the Red Crescent, the Mogen David
>> Adom, and the Red Lion-and-Sun. But what about the Vilani? Or
>> the Syleans? Or any other major cultural influence on the
>> Imperium?
IMTU, I use two for vilani medical professionals:
Mortar and Pestle for Pharmacologist Physicians
Bloody Hand (A right hand, palm towards viewer, thumb pointing upright,
bloody red) for Surgeons.
Crossed Suture-Needle and Scalpel: Again, surgeons.
Note also that IMTU, these two are totally unrelated fields for most
purposes, much like chiropractors and MD's in many areas today.
Why the bloody hand? Since surgery didn't require strict sterility, vilani
surgeons would need little more than hand tools for most surgery.So most
physicians would be recognizeable from the bllody hand prints on the
towels. Sure, they'd figure out they needed to wash between patients, if
only to prevent transfusion-type rejections.... Eventually.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:21:15 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Jtas Copyrights
>In a message dated 2/4/00 4:53:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
>
>> If SJG is going to have folks who write stuff for them reading the
>> postings, they've *got* to have that sort of out. Or every time they
>> use an idea mentioned in a post (even if they already had it or it
>> wasn't at all original) they'll be wide open for a lawsuit. They'd
>> *likely* win such a suit (but you can't count on it), but it'd tie up
>> money, and cost them *time*.
>
>Also, all the writer's are fans we know anyway (so far at least), I don't
>know any of them who would steal an idea without at least asking or giving
>some sort of credit (of course accidents have happened here and there).
Well, I had that happen to me with some B5W stuff: asked someone to forward
it to AoG for me (cause my ISP claimed that their ISP didn't exist) and it
showed up in a book with credit to the forwarder.
I'm not terribly worried about SJG, but if they get bought up then the
buyer might not hold to any gentleman's agreements. Which is why the
copyright in the sig is a good idea.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:11:14 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Webzines
>Personally if I were worried about loosing access I would
>simply store them on my computer or on some form of
>storage media, possibly even a printout (one copy only,
>of course, per the agreement). Any such storage has costs
>and risk of loss involved but so does storage of games on
>paper.
AND, for my purposes, is actually less efficient financially and
emotionally than buying on paper in the first place. Since Floppy Disks
have a shelf life of 5-10 years (many of the one's I got from you in 92
have since died of old age), and even syquest carts have a 7-12 year
lifespan when used for archival storage, not to mention syquests are no
longer available, and I don't have extensive storage space, I'd have to
print out, and paper-archive. And, paper archives can last hundreds of
years with only minimal data loss. Magazines on glossy paper are good for
at least 30 years. (I've read ones from the 1950's that are still in
like-new condition.)
>> > Look at the popularity of back issues of Challenge, Dragon, JTAS, TD, even
>> > the 4 issues of MTJ. They sell now for more than cover in many cases. The
>> > magazine itself was a tangible product with long term value. Web-zines are
>> > a service, with the product (the information) being value added, assuming
>> > you actually make a copy of the information for future use, but unlike
>> > physical subscription products, you can't resell the information by
>> > reselling the media as you'd have violated the service agreement.
>
>The question is what the net present value to you of your
>expected possible resale of the Traveller products. If you
>are concerned about return on investment you'd be better off,
>IMNSHO, in the stock market. In addition concern about
>resale value carries the (_heretical_) assumption that you
>might ever want to sell any of your Traveller products
>(although if you do I'd like first bid at your 101 Robots).
I HAVE 101 Robots??? It is news to me... I thought the copy I had for a few
weeks was YOURS. I may have picked on up (I *Honestly* don't know...)
Not that I am investing in them for return rates, but that, should I not be
satisfied at some later date, I can recover some value. Almost the
definition of product versus service.
>Are you suggesting that there is something wrong with the
>notion of paying for a service, or merely that this service
>is not worth $15 a year to you?
It is worth far less to me than the $30 per year I tend to spend on gaming
magazines that are current. Far less than half. Remember, I've looked at
pyramid on-line over at your house... I wasn't impressed. Most gaming
magazine purchases I make are well out of current. BTW, the only gaming mag
I currently pick up with any regularity is KODT. I USED to get TD, then
MTJ, then TC, and I also used to get ADQ and Captain's Log. I spend less
now than when Gaming mags were cheaper. I personally prefer the approach
that was used with CL: A series of products, written as a magazine, but
released as a game-product, not a magazine.
>You are willing to pay
>for other services such as cable modems, cable TV, and local
>phone services which typically (in Anchorage) charge a flat
>monthly fee, what is wrong with doing the same for JTAS?
Because they are not claiming to be a magazine. Which, for the very reasons
above, JTAS-OL isn't truly a magazine, but an information service. Add to
that the copyright issues (which I understand but will not personally
subject myself to) and non-durability, plus that I'd need to print out
anything I used at my own expense on my not so hot printer-which-works....
And, at least when I was on CIS, CIS didn't claim any copyright privledges
on posts. The wording was that "All materials posted remain the copyright
of the authors. All materials submitted to the file areas are submitted for
the personal use only of CIS customers. Any other use, including reposting
to other BBS systems, is stricly prohibited without the permission of the
authors."
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:41:49 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Imperial Symbology
>Ah! I've got it! Three green "thorns" arranged in a triangle, points
>outward. The "bases" are flat (forming an empty triangle suitable for
>writing ID codes in). The "sides" are a pair of concave arcs (ie
>curving *in* towards each other). The distance from "base" to point
>should be double the length of the base. I'm not sure if the arcs
>should be portions of a circle, or some more complex curve.
I'm adopting this, but without the coloration, for MTU. I think the colors
would be used for Types of Poisons:
Green: ingested
Light Blue: Inhaled
Dark Blue: Contact liquid
Blood Red: injectable (IE, don't go near with open wounds).
Oh, and the arcs I'll use will be quarter-oval, 4:1 oval. Primarily cause I
can do that in ClarisWorks or Desk Draw without a problem.
For radiation, I figure they'd use a poison symbol, say in yellow? YMMV.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:36:49 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: [none]
>Nope. You have to *spell out* "copyright". That's because the *only*
>legal alternative to spelling it out is the "c in a circle" symbol,
>which isn't available in many character sets (like the one I'm using)
>and has different values in the ones that have it.
>
>The "(c)" is *not* equivalent to the symbol.
>
>Of course, except in situations like these, you don't have to deal with
>*either* as the normal default state has been "copyrighted unless
>explicitly marked otherwise" for more than 10 years.
Leonard, go down to your local Federal Library (Usually, it will be a BLM
or DoI Library), and get the copyright pamphlets.
Within the US, the (C) is the ascii representation of the İ (c in a circle)
glyph, just like (R) is the registered trademark symbol in ascii. Or, more
correctly, the last time I checked the current US Gov't pubs on Copyright
and Trademark, these were valid, that would have been 1994.
They do not meet *international* standards, but are valid within the US.
Since SJG has choice of law limited to their home state, US law applies.
Now, to be certain some weenie in, say, Timbuktu, doesn't use my stuff, I
need to spell out "copyright", provide the date, my name, and what rights
are reserved.
In the US, I HAVE to register to have more than 2 years protection on
physical works of *music* (scores, parts, etc), and have to register to
publish more than enough copies for performers, and I can't *sell* copies
with protected status until I have registered. Hence, the copyright on all
my student works have elapsed. Hand-copyright (IE, simply noting the
copyright data, but not registering) is limited by type of publication in
the US. Other locations may vary. Again, this is based upon my review of
the subject in 1994. I'm no lawyer. But I did check quite a bit into it
when I was writing music on a daily basis.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1866
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Traveller-digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1867
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re : Penetrating trauma, shock, etc. (longish)
Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1866
Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
Re: Tips for *readable* messages (was Re: Distances in 3D)
Realism and Complexity in games
ATM/Gas Station Scam & L. Neil Smith
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Re Webzines
Re: Pyramid & JTAS
Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
Lost Travellers...
JTAS (long)
RE: Imperial Varient: Margaret III: The Frontier Wars
JTAS
Re: Frigate crew questions TML #1848
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:40:01 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor"
Subject: Re : Penetrating trauma, shock, etc. (longish)
Right. Let's get a few definitions straight :-
Shock : a pathophysiological state where cardiac output is inadequate to
meet the metabolic needs of the tissues.
Taxonomy :-
1. Due to decreased blood volume - hypovolaemic i.e. the usual cause in
the injuries this thread started out with.
2. Due to primary pump failure - cardiogenic e.g. post massive
myocardial infarction, or poisoning with a variety of drugs e.g.
antimalarials and antiarrhythmics.
3. Due to decreased peripheral resistance, leading to a fall in
perfusion pressure below critical levels. Several causes :-
- vasodilatation secondary to changes in autonomic nervous system tone
i.e. neurogenic shock ;
- vasodilatation and capillary leak secondary to exaggerated
inflammatory responses - septic ('toxic') and anaphylactic shock.
Comments on previous posts :-
Bolie Williams IV wrote :-
> You can suffer shock if a bullet tears an artery or somehow otherwise
> causes a quick drain of blood. This can cause the blood pressure to
> drop. I'd imagine that this is relatively rare, though.
No. This is the most common cause that you will see in the context of
trauma (motor vehicle accidents, falls, shootings, stabbings, etc). See
below.
James Lindsay wrote :-
> One of the participants claimed that the sudden "impact" of the outer
> boundary of an expanding wound cavity on nearby nerve endings could cause
> some sort of additional, incapacitating damage which couldn't be easily
> identified as physical in nature.
This sounds like a lawyer trying to define 'nervous shock' or 'mental
anguish' - a load of rubbish.
Obviously the psychological/psychiatric sequelae of being involved in a
life-or-death situation comes into it, but has more to do with the
context, and such effects are delayed in onset.
As I posted previously, nerves are fairly resilient. Transection or
crushing will lead to characteristic disturbances of sensation and
muscle power in the areas supplied by the nerves in question. Any other
effects are due to personality, etc.
Leonard Erickson wrote :-
> Yep. It's interesting though. An amazing number of things can lead to
> at least "mild" shock. And you won't realize *what* is wrong, just that
> something doesn't "feel right".
Most such cases fall into the neurogenic category. 'Simple' fainting for
example.
> This is something to keep in mind for roleplaying. You can be right on
> the edge of collapse and *not* feel all that bad.
This is a function of physiological reserve (END/CON/HT) and injury
severity. For example :-
A police officer in his early 30s was brought into the Emergency Room of
the hospital where I worked following a medium velocity (40-50km/h) car
accident. He was alert, warm, and had normal vital signs and some vague
abdominal tenderness.
The worrying part of the story was that he had a blood pressure of
about 70/30 and quite marked abdominal pain at the scene (but this
quickly picked up with a total of 30mg of morphine and 500mL of IV
fluid).
He was urgently taken to theatre, where it turned out that he had three
litres of blood (>50% of his blood volume) in his abdomen from an
arterial tear...
Chris Olsen wrote :-
> I need to pitch in here also.
Neurogenic shock secondary to pain. Very common.
> Nine tries later they had to get a doctor of some years experience to > do it at the elbow
That's quite suboptimal by today's standards ; 'three strikes and change
operator' is the SOP now. 25+ years ago (before more extensive
standardised training in resuscitation skills), I could sort of believe
that it might take a while.
> I was apparently rather close to a cardiac event,
No. It's when it becomes easy to get IV access in this sort of situation
without an improvement in the patient's state that you start worrying -
the implication being that circulatory arrest is imminent.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:40:28 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor"
Subject: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
Jeff Zeitlin wrote :-
> What symbols - if any - are "universally" recognized as meaning "Medical
>facility - don't shoot; we're not a target"?
I agree with 'Snake Eyes' that the caduceus is a good candidate.
For other human races?
Hmm...
- - A heart (cardioid) being cupped in a pair of hands?
- - A flaming heart (confusion with order of St. Augustine)?
- - A chalice (Hebe, the cupbearer to the Greek gods, could restore health
to gods and men)?
- - An equilateral triangle (three elements of vitality in balance)?
- - Crossed scalpels?
- - A mortar and pestle?
- - The yin-yang symbol (New Ageism?)
- - Torches, lanterns, etc?
- - Animals associated with healing powers?
e.g. the kamiishgiirmu with legs pointing to the cardinal directions for
the Vilani?
A little bit of drift from the original topic here...
Leonard Erickson wrote :-
> On the other hand, they'd *need* a "poison" symbol that was quick and
> easy to draw!
> Ah! I've got it! Three green "thorns" arranged in a triangle, points
> outward.
Looks a lot like the biohazard symbol. This isn't a big deal, but :-
Colour differentiation would suffice for most sophonts, but would
Imperial OS&H legislation mandate that symbols be unambiguous across a
wide spectral range (e.g. the Eliyoh with their visual spectrum in the
read and near infrared)??.
So a white skull and crossbones in a black diamond for poison might
still be a goer.
Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:06:47 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
In a message dated 2/4/00 2:38:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> Well, I had that happen to me with some B5W stuff: asked someone to forward
> it to AoG for me (cause my ISP claimed that their ISP didn't exist) and it
> showed up in a book with credit to the forwarder.
>
> I'm not terribly worried about SJG, but if they get bought up then the
> buyer might not hold to any gentleman's agreements. Which is why the
> copyright in the sig is a good idea.
It also happened to GDW and/or DGP at least once (where someone accused Loren
of plagiarizing their material).
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 18:46:49 -0600
From: Mark A Nordstrand
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
> (he says...thinking of the nice Postscript color Laserjet down the hall)
>
> OOOHH!!!
>
> Can this do _sector_ sized maps?
>
> (He thinks, even _more_ excitedly, about the large format color inkjet
> _next_ to the HP color laser jet!)
(shameless plug) I have code at http://www.visi.com/~markn/index.html
which not only prints in color, but will print entire (or any size you
desire) sector maps.
Caveats are I have only built it on linux (and on solaris some time
ago),
and only printed on 8.5x11 where it is barely legable. Getting and
building
this is not for the faint of heart, however. If it's instant
gratification
you're looking for, don't bother.
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:50:25 EST
From: GaryBartz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1866
In a message dated 2/4/00 5:38:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
<< Since SJG has choice of law limited to their home state, US law applies.
>>
Why is there a choice of law limitation on SJG? Do they have a choice of
law/jurisdiction clause on everything? [Not that it would always hold up]
If not, then I believe that the good states of Cali and New York Land [among
others] would tend to impose their laws if there was the slightest chance of
a wealth transfer increase to a favored group.
Most other nations would apply their written choice of law statutes, and that
could lead to SJG home state laws, or not, in particular if the internet is
involved with people in different states/nations.
Gary
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:02:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
In mail you write:
> A friend of mine in the IT section of a very large bank (that shall
> remain unnamed in some eastern Citi...:-) told me about a programmer
> working on their systems, who asked for and recieved root password, as
> allegedly she needed that level of access.
>
> About an hour later she came into my friends office and asked "Umm, you
> don't have a recent set of backup tapes, do you?"
That's one of the reasons I use NetWare. The SALVAGE command is a
lifesaver.
> Know what the simplest hack I've heard of in a long time was?
>
> It was the bunch who put an ATM into a mall at Christmastime a few years
> ago, only it was _their_ ATM. You walked up, stuck in your card, punched
> in your PIN, and the thing came back a few minutes later saying "Unable
> to contact your bank" or 'Sorry, out of cash" or somesuch.
>
> Meanwhile they were harvesting card numbers and pins to use for bank
> transfers to their own accounts.
>
> They got caught, of course, because they were greedy, and let the scam
> continue too long.
>
> The second simplest hack of automated banking systems was the other
> bunch who were going around to standalone ATM machines with a tow truck.
> They were simply yanking the things out of the ground and tearing off
> with them, removing the cash at their leisure.
There's an older, but even simpler "hack" (hey, it's an application of
"social engineering" :-).
A customer comes up to the ATM (over better yet, the night deposit
drop), to find a security guard with a sturdy briefcase, and an "out of
order" sign on the drop/ATM.
The guard says he's there to accept the deposits, due to the
malfunction which can't be fixed until morning.
Naturally, the guy is an impostor, and there's nothing wrong except him.
This scam has been pulled off *many* times over the years.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 17:55:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
In mail you write:
> Two potentially relevant thoughts.
>
> First, even today, skilled hackers routinely compromise the fairly robust
> security of the banking system. The losses are huge in absolute terms, but
> are accepted by banks as a "cost of doing business." Even with the
> additional losses, the gains from automation are substantial. Maybe this
> trend continues into the future. At advanced TLs it may be possible for a
> skilled and determined adversary to hack the Imperial Banking System in some
> way, but the Imperial Ministry of Overseeing Hacking in the Banking System
> accepts this as another cost of banking.
Actually, as a regular reader of comp.risks since almost the beginning,
I think I can safely state that other than the use of DES to encrypt
transactions sent over phone lines, the banking industry's security is
far from "robust".
It's *far* better than most, but that only makes it "semi-decent"
security in absolute terms. Most companies have *abysmal* security.
Most system crackers aren't all that skilled. They just have access to
the *huge* list of security bugs in various systems that various folks
have compiled over the years.
They just determine what software is being used, and try the known
methods of exploiting the security holes in that package.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 21:16:41 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford
Subject: Re: Tips for *readable* messages (was Re: Distances in 3D)
At 02:28 AM 02/04/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>*PLEASE* when posting multiline formulas (the "overline" of underlines
>made these multiline) *or* when posting "tabular" data, set your font
>to a *fixed pitch* font.
EXCELLENT suggestion! I just took a look in my toolbox (Eudora Pro) and
found said toggle; a single click and tabular data will make sense! Well,
at least will LOOK as if it makes sense...
Bill Rutherford
worj@home.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 15:25:42 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Realism and Complexity in games
On 4 Feb 00, at 12:57, Michael Houghton wrote:
> Howdy!
>
> Delos wrote:
> > What sort of 'universe' do we want to portray? Cinematic universes are
> > less likely to have PCs that fall down when shot as opposed to more
> > life-and-death ones where you almost always fall down. To do things
> > realistically, maybe relying on a hit location chart can help make
> > things consistent.
> >
> Good point. It is useful to be aware of the realistic effects. Once you
> know what is likely to happen in a realistic situation, you can decide to
> add cinematic effects *for effect*. If you don't know, you are less able
> to *cheat* on the laws of physics.
I've been saying this for years now. IMO when writing rules for things
in games it's a good idea to stay fairly close to reality (unless the
genre is explicitly not realistic), and then tell the users how to
modify things. That way if someone wants to change things they can
start from the real world, and not have remove all the crud first.
IMO complexity is a similar thing. When writing rules for something put
in the more complex way of doing things as a "module", if it's likely
to be needed, because it's a lot easier for a GM to take stuff out than
to add it in.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:03:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Timothy Tow
Subject: ATM/Gas Station Scam & L. Neil Smith
I heard about this from a college roommate.
Some enterprising individuals set up a fake ATM in Los
Angeles that actually did dispense cash. Using these
ATM passwords and account numbers, they went to gas
stations to buy gas for their car or van, which was
specially designed to hold several hundred gallons.
However, they were careful only to buy about $10.00 of
gas each time at each station.
They then went back to a gas station they apparently
owned and deposited the gas into their storage tanks
and resold it to customers. I don't know how they ever
got caught.
OBTrav: Would we still use password or PIN security at
all in the Traveller universe? I would think that some
type of biometric identification would predominate.
Anyone else notice that the SF author, L. Neith Smith,
or an identically named individual is running for the
US Presidency as a Libertarian candidate?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:11:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
In mail you write:
>> On Behalf Of Damage169@cs.com
>>
>> Kagehira@aol.com writes:
>>
>> << > 3. Any post not carrying an *explicit* copyright notice.... >>
>> << (c) Bryan :) >>
>>
>> That's all it takes, a (c) followed by a date (even just the year) and a
>> name, and you've placed an explicit copyright on an article.
>
> But under international copyright law, even that isn't neccessary, as
> you have copyright on anything you publish (even on Usenet) unless you
> explicitly relinquish it.
But if you've read the terms on the SJG site, you've *agreed* that they
can use your material *unless* you place the (otherwise unneeded)
copyright notice on it.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:27:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re Webzines
In mail you write:
> And, at least when I was on CIS, CIS didn't claim any copyright privledges
> on posts. The wording was that "All materials posted remain the copyright
> of the authors. All materials submitted to the file areas are submitted for
> the personal use only of CIS customers. Any other use, including reposting
> to other BBS systems, is stricly prohibited without the permission of the
> authors."
"Compilation copyright" is a copyright on a *collection* of works by
others. It has no effect on the *author's* copyright. It merely
prevents someone from republishing the *collection* (or any collection
derived from it) without permission of the person holding the
compilation copyright (or explicit permission from each and every
individual author involved).
CIS most definitely *did* assert a compilation copyright on both the
message areas *and* the libraries. That let them sue BBS operators who
posted substantial excerpts from either. It had *no* effect on the
rights of the authors of the posts/files.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:35:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Pyramid & JTAS
In mail you write:
>
>> On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
>
> I'm answering a couple of your posts in one reply here, Leonard, so don;t
> get confused
>
>> That may be true. But check the policy on "letters to the editor" in
>> your local paper. It says much the same.
>
> That's because letters to the editor are _intended_ for publication in the
> newspaper, and thus as permission to publish is required, and it's easier to
> get permission up front ( by default in that case).
And allowing your posts to appear on their web site is *also*
"publishing" them!
>> Perhaps because of the section of his message that you *didn't* quote?
>
> Which was because IMO that part was pretty irrelevant to the point,
> but I'll outline why below
>
>> The one where he points out that without it, someone's post could
>> interfere with publication of similar ideas, EVEN IF THEY'D BEEN
>> ARRIVED AT INDEPENDENTLY AND BEFORE THE POST ARRIVED.
>>
>> That's *not* an imaginary or "minor" concern. It's *very* real. It's
>> cost people *huge* sums of money defending themselves against twerps
>> who were *certain* that "their" idea had been "stolen" regardless of
>> how little it resembled the one they were suing over or how poorly
>> developed their version was.
>
> Taken to the logical conclusion, that means that anyone who ever writes
> anything, anywhere, can never read or have read anything else.
>
> To be more specific, no writer for SJG may ever read the TML, or any RPG
> related Usenet newsgroups.
A lot of authors have done exactly that (or the equivalent) per advice
from lawyers!
> There is no more chance of someone successfully sueing SJG in that way over
> a posting to an SJG newsgroup than there is of someone on the TML doing so,
> as the ownership of the group is irrelevant to the legal argument, which
> relies on proving that the SJG writer read the appropriate post and used it.
> That's just as easy to prove on the TML or Usenet as a whole.
As I noted elsewhere, the suit does *not* have to be successful. It's
mere existence is a major hassle.
> Therefore, as the clause does not protect SJG anymore substantially then
> they already are protected, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that
> they _intend_ to make use of such postings, in the same way that the "letter
> to he editor" example you mentioned _intends_ to make use the letter.
It makes it less likely that a lawyer will accept the idiot as a client.
>> Example. Someone could post something like "A game with super-tanks
>> would be neat" and then *sue* when GURPS OGRE or GURPS Bolo came out.
>> And if he found a typically sleazy lawyer, he could tie the release of
>> the games up for *years* and cost SJG thousands of dollars until they
>> finally eith managed to end the stalling in court or deciding to just
>> "buy him off".
>
> Thing is, your someone can do that anyway, whether it was posted on an SJG
> news group or not. All he needs is some evidence that a person involved in
> the production of the work read it, where that work was is irrelevant.
>
> And BTW, in your movie studio case, saying that they have a policy of not
> reading unsolicitied manuscripts is only a minor addition to any defence.
> It only helps prove "good intentions" and then only if they can show their
> 'policy' was actually followed by staff
>
> The main reason for the policy is that most unsolicited manuscripts are
> junk, and they'd like to reduce the volume they recieve.
I suggest that you check around. This *really is* a problem. And such
an agreement means you can get the case thrown out of court *quickly*
(and cheaply).
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:41:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote :-
>> On the other hand, they'd *need* a "poison" symbol that was quick and
>> easy to draw!
>
>> Ah! I've got it! Three green "thorns" arranged in a triangle, points
>> outward.
>
> Looks a lot like the biohazard symbol. This isn't a big deal, but :-
> Colour differentiation would suffice for most sophonts, but would
> Imperial OS&H legislation mandate that symbols be unambiguous across a
> wide spectral range (e.g. the Eliyoh with their visual spectrum in the
> read and near infrared)??.
Huh? The *only* things it has in common with the biohazard symbol are
tri-lateral symmetry, and the presence of curves. The orientation of
the curves is totally different.
The biohazard symbol has arcs curving towards and away from the
*center* (at least if I remember it correctly). This has curves curving
towards *radial* lines.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 22:17:04 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Lost Travellers...
Does anyone have current contact information for the following
people? They are signed up to the Traveller-Culture list with
these addresses, but mail to them bounces with "User unknown".
Chris Cox, chriscox@ix.netcom.com
Doug Berry, dberry@hooked.net
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 22:29:27 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: JTAS (long)
There have been almost a hundred posts on the new SJG eZine for JTAS. Some
of the whining has gotten out of hand. I would like to try to put things in
perspective....
POINT #1
People we need to get grip here. We are only talking about $15.00 for a
PREMIUM service. Cut out the jelly donuts for a month and it's a done deal.
All the freaking whining about $15.00 for Pyramid and another $15.00 for
JTAS is plain horse hockey. I'm not loaded by anyone's standards but $30.00
a year for these two outstanding sources of info and all the other benefits
that they throw in are WELL WORTH the trivial sum they are asking for them.
If it's too much for you then your priorities are somewhere else. Some of
you make it sound like they ripped you off and if you had to put up another
$15.00 you would lose your house or something. I don't care if you can't
afford it or not, get a part time job if it is so important for you to have
it and leave me out of your personal problems.
POINT #2
If you are so terribly afraid of losing control (or rights) of your ideas
then don't post them. Damn, how many of you out there think you are going to
make a living being a professional writer for the Traveller universe. If
they will point in my general direction and say I think he had some input on
this, I would be very happy and PROUD. You have to think about SJG's
position here. They are hosting and maintaining a place for us to hang out
and read posts of what I hope to be good source material and they are
needing to keep their books in the black for future materials to be
released. They can't afford to keep a lawyer on retainer in the event that
someone might take exception to something that was posted on their computer.
They don't even have to go to court for it cost them a lot of money. Let
them keep ownership for crying out loud, as long as they stay in business to
publish some Traveller material I don't care and neither should you! We have
lost a lot of Traveller resources over the years because they couldn't make
money in the business anymore. Geez, what do you think they should do, BUY
every word that you type? Please don't answer that BUT, you can take your
paranoia to a therapist.......
AND LASTLY
Before there are fifty flamers aimed back at me, I think you should consider
the impact of this subject on the rest of my life and take a wild ass'd
guess at how much I will pay attention to anything you have to say. You'll
just be wasting band width because I'm not wasting any more of my time on
the subject and I wish people would drop it from the TML
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:13:44 -0800
From: "Tsykoduk"
Subject: RE: Imperial Varient: Margaret III: The Frontier Wars
Alvin - congrats You now own your very own Rule and Folder on my mail
system!
WOO HOO!
Way to go!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:12:33 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: JTAS
Thom Harris wrote:
>Before there are fifty flamers aimed back at me, I think you should
>consider the impact of this subject on the rest of my life and take a wild
>ass'd guess at how much I will pay attention to anything you have to say.
Works both ways Thom. Why should anyone pay attention to what
you have to say, especially when posted with this attitude?
There *are* published authors on this forum - including published authors
of Traveller products. Some (though not all) of them, and some others
think SJG is making mistakes similar to those made by GeoCities and
others in the rapidly evolving online publishing market. If they are right,
SJG could lose some goodwill, or even get *less* input into their online
forums unless policies are made more clear. I think Loren and Keith have
presented very good answers to the concerns presented, and I, at least,
know better where I'd stand should my HG3rd Edition work see the
light of day...and I know better what the effects will be of presenting it
in SJG's forum.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:21:13 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Frigate crew questions TML #1848
In a message dated 2/3/00 10:00:39 PM !!!First Boot!!!, carlino@home.com
writes:
<< (As an aside: The only time I got enough sleep was during the Gulf War.
There were no drills to get us up in the middle of the night. If we had
night ops planned we slept during the daytime. We kept things shipshape and
kept all equipment running, but we never sent people to do busy work just
because it was "working hours." )
>>
Shh; don't tell anyone-the CNO's Vilani!...:-)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:09:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
In mail you write:
>> (he says...thinking of the nice Postscript color Laserjet down the hall)
>>
>> OOOHH!!!
>>
>> Can this do _sector_ sized maps?
>>
>> (He thinks, even _more_ excitedly, about the large format color inkjet
>> _next_ to the HP color laser jet!)
>
> (shameless plug) I have code at http://www.visi.com/~markn/index.html
> which not only prints in color, but will print entire (or any size you
> desire) sector maps.
I keep eyeing the HP DraftPro plotter someone has been trying to sell
on the local forsale group for several months. It'll do up to D size
plots (B=11x17, C=22x17, D=22x34, E=44x34). Just the thing for
*detailed* maps, deck plans, world maps, etc.
And then I haul myself up short and try to remember that I've got
better uses for my money, and I don't have room for it anyway.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1867
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Traveller-digest Saturday, February 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1868
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Pyramid & JTAS
Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Re: Nuclear war effects (OT)
Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
RE: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Re: Watches
Re: Lost Travellers...
Re: ATM/Gas Station Scam & L. Neil Smith
Re: JTAS Online
Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
Re: JTAS - Count your blessings and remember Imperium Games
Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Sword Worlder names
Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Re: Lost Travellers...
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Re: Symbols for Medical Facility
RE: Robot Brains vs. Starship Computers (LONG)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:45:16 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pyramid & JTAS
In a message dated 2/4/00 7:18:47 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
keithalanjohnson@home.com writes:
<< With any luck, the old issues of Space Gamer will be next. . .
>>
Oh please, PLEASE, PLEASE!!! I've GOT to see all the old Traveller and Ogre
articles...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:48:13 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
In a message dated 2/4/00 8:33:08 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:
<< As long as we're doing the humour thing how about some comments on this -
I recently overheard some Shadowrun/Cyberpunk gamers talking about firearms
and one was telling the others how the best weapon for teams clearing houses
is an SMG specifically rigged with a hair trigger*. Correct me if I'm wrong,
but isn't that just a tad over the line into sheer bleeping insanity?
Or perhaps in the rather rarefied atmosphere of their reality friendly
fire can't occur `cuz it ain't in the rules :)
*which was then described as something that could go off if dropped, and
in so doing continue to fire from the shock of recoil - which logically
applies to _every_ shot, dropped weapon or not...
>>
Feh! Shadowrun munchkinism...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:57:27 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
In a message dated 2/4/00 11:16:17 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:
<< Toss a few at the dams on the Columbia and a few other rivers, and most
of the downstream areas will be wiped clean. While I'm at it, I'd toss
a few small nukes at the aqueducts for LA. New York's water supply is
just as vulnerable, but its population is so densely packed that it'd
likely be simpler to just toss a *big* nuke at Manhattan. >>
Living in Vegas, I guess I'm f****d. I live between Yucca Mt. (proposed
nuclear waste storage), Nellis Air Force Base (rumored to be a major post
cold war nuclear arsenal), and Hoover Dam...:-)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 00:02:35 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
In a message dated 2/4/00 12:43:48 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
macmanjws@earthlink.net writes:
<< "So who's on OUR side?"
"Six hundred million screaming Chinamen."
"Wait a minute. I thought there were over a billion."
"There were....."
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH!!
>>
Ah; memories of a great movie (though I'm sure the ultra liberals like
Jennifer Gray and the bim from Caroline in The City are embarrassed they were
in it...:-) )
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 00:09:25 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (OT)
In a message dated 2/4/00 1:41:01 PM !!!First Boot!!!, pnewman@gci.net writes:
<< In the incredibly unlikely event that an Arab country
was to conquer Israel I wonder if some Israeli military
leader might decide to nuke Mecca in a "last gasp" action.
It seems to me that the Arab leaders would have a rather
short life expectancy at that point as some of their more pious
countrymen, probably including some of their own bodyguards,
decided that the people responsible for the war had caused
the destruction of Mecca. >>
Oh absolutly. They would nuke EVERY Arab and non Arab Muslim city they could
reach. I just hope they hit France too...:-) (I couldn'r resist). If I were
about to be driven into the Med, I would try and take as many of them with me
I could sort of like a Masada-Warsaw Ghetto uprising combo. With an alleged
arsenal of 2-300 warheads, and a GOOD airforce to deliver them...hmm.
The REAL scary thing is that the Arabs would probably blame the west in
General and the US in particular, and go after us...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 21:24:18 -0800
From: Snake Eyes
Subject: Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
- --=====================_87032322==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 06:41 PM 2/4/2000 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>Huh? The *only* things it has in common with the biohazard symbol are
>tri-lateral symmetry, and the presence of curves. The orientation of the
>curves is totally different.
>
>The biohazard symbol has arcs curving towards and away from the *center*
>(at least if I remember it correctly). This has curves curving towards
>*radial* lines.
Maybe I'm just having trouble visualizing the concept of this whole
green-thorny-trefoil thing, but (as described) it sounds a lot like the
emblem used by the Klingon Empire in that other Sci-Fi universe.
Sort of a rounded three-point swastika?
Am I even close?
~ Snake Eyes
- --=====================_87032322==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:41 PM 2/4/2000 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Huh? The *only* things it has in common with the biohazard symbol are tri-lateral symmetry, and the presence of curves. The orientation of the curves is totally different.
> The biohazard symbol has arcs curving towards and away from the *center* (at least if I remember it correctly). This has curves curving towards *radial* lines.

Maybe I'm just having trouble visualizing the concept of this whole green-thorny-trefoil thing, but (as described) it sounds a lot like the emblem used by the Klingon Empire in that other Sci-Fi universe.
Sort of a rounded three-point swastika?
Am I even close?
~ Snake Eyes
- --=====================_87032322==_.ALT--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:35:45 -0600
From: "Bont"
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
If you have got the harddrive/RAM space, Astrogator will save a
map of any size, be it a single subsector, sector or multiple sectors.
During my last Trav game, we printout 16 subsectors (each on a
separate page), all with different colors for different allegiances
(with different hatch patterns, too), route colors (with different
thicknesses and types, too) and different dot colors for system
contents (scout bases, etc). We then taped them to the wall and
had one big game map.
I heard there are printers out there that will print print E Size
bitmaps. If that is true, then maybe you should give it a look-see. I
realize it's a windows program and probably not very good for your
karma if you use it, but Carpe Diem.
- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)
- - Encrypt your messages!
That way only the government knows what you wrote!
- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!
- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)
- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto
- - Help Stop Forest Fires. Outlaw Matches.
Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
http://www.felixcafe.com/
- - - -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:40:47 -0800
From: "Bruce Macintosh"
Subject: RE: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
>For a while there, a nuclear war between China and the USSR seemed the most
>likely scenario.
A fairly minimal "war", since China had at most a couple of dozen missiles,
vastly more primitive than even their Russian counterparts...
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 06:37:24 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Watches
Mark S Peace writes:
>There would be no need to rotate watches in space - there are no
>daylight/temperature changes to same some watches more popular than others.
If the ship imitates a normal day cycle with a day and a night then the 0400-
0800 watch is going to be unpopular, believe me.
Of course, it may we running a mainday/alterday scheme like the ships in
Cherryh's book.
>Mark.
>
>[Quotes the bit he is responding to after the response].
This is confusing and annoying. Could you please quote first and then reply?
(This is not aimed at you specifically, Mark. A lot of people have taken to
doing this lately. At least you trimmed the quote. Some people just quote
the whole post which is _really_ annoying.)
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 00:39:46 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lost Travellers...
In a message dated 2/5/00 3:13:47 AM !!!First Boot!!!, jzeitlin@cyburban.com
writes:
<< Does anyone have current contact information for the following
people? They are signed up to the Traveller-Culture list with
these addresses, but mail to them bounces with "User unknown".
Chris Cox, chriscox@ix.netcom.com
Doug Berry, dberry@hooked.net
--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com >>
I think Doug's temporarily off line to finish GURPS Groundforces...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 04:33:00 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: ATM/Gas Station Scam & L. Neil Smith
Timothy Tow asks:
>Anyone else notice that the SF author, L. Neith Smith,
>or an identically named individual is running for the
>US Presidency as a Libertarian candidate?
>
Same fellow. Most of his books (which often carry a strong
Libertarian message, BTW) mention that he's run for
public office in his home state. I just wish he'd finish
some of the stories he started in the early 90s. Strong
socio-political messages aside, he writes a marvelous
story...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:50:11 GMT
From: Simon Early
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
Keith Johnson wrote:
> 2. Running playtest in two places is hugely inconvenient to the editors and
> lead playtesters.
I can see this, but it feels like a "raw deal" for Traveller fans, as my Pyramid
sub is now just used to access a few Traveller playtest files.
I have already subscribed to JTAS because I am a (sad) Traveller fan.
I have recently renewed my Pyramid sub because I enjoyed the Traveller articles
in 1999 as well as the Traveller playtest files. I was disappointed at the lack
of Traveller articles in 2000.
With JTAS I now have Traveller articles, and will only bother to check for
Traveller playtest files from Pyramid. I would have prefered to "convert" my
Pyramid sub to JTAS - even if I could not download Traveller playtest files.
The best of all worlds (for me) would be JTAS and access to Traveller playtest
files.
I buy all the GURPS Traveller book and don't actively contribute to playtest. I
want the (Traveller) electronic files available as it lets me extract "neat
bits" into my computer files, e.g. Library data - extending my universe with
extra GT background. I suspect I am not the only one who downloads playtest
files for this reason. I don't bother with non-Traveller playtest files.
As I don't contribute to playtest, I may be confused, but I thought playtest
comments were e-mailed in and not sent via www/chat. In that case, I can't see
the huge hassle of setting up an area to download Traveller (only) playtest
files for JTAS-subscribers as well as for Pyramid.
Simon
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 06:55:48 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
People are THAT stupid? Wow.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson"
To:
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship
Computers (LONG))
> A customer comes up to the ATM (over better yet, the night deposit
> drop), to find a security guard with a sturdy briefcase, and an "out of
> order" sign on the drop/ATM.
>
> The guard says he's there to accept the deposits, due to the
> malfunction which can't be fixed until morning.
>
> Naturally, the guy is an impostor, and there's nothing wrong except him.
> This scam has been pulled off *many* times over the years.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 06:03:57 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Re: JTAS - Count your blessings and remember Imperium Games
Thank you, Thom. I for one am happy that there's a current
and popular game publisher who thinks Traveller is worth
his time. The simple fact that Steve Jackson Games is
introducing new players to Traveller makes SJG more valuable
to the continuation of Traveller than anything else currently
on the market.
Consider a world without Traveller. Consider that a company
could have become the Traveller line flagship which was out
of Loren Wiseman or Marc Miller's direct control. Think Imperium
Games, folks, and count your blessings!
Rob
Thom Harris wrote:
>
> POINT #1
> $15 per year is more than reasonable for JTAS, given its
> content value.
>
> POINT #2
> Do not post anything on JTAS that you will publish yourself.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 06:12:15 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Computers and Technology IYTU
So the issue here is how pervasive high technology is In
Your Imperium.
In My Imperium, average Imperial technology isn't pervasive;
it's more like modern-day-earth with a jump drive and
contragrav. So you'll have pilots, astrogators, and
engineers, rather than robots maintaining everything and
computers flying the ship. Sure high tech exists, it's
just never managed to penetrate every nook and cranny of
our existance.
Besides, how are my crew going to earn money?
My handwave is that a technology has to have crossed a
development cost barrier, passed a usefulness metric,
worked its way into industrial technology, and gained
public acceptance. My players are believers in public
acceptance, but only because it's convenient to them.
I wonder if high tech worlds will more often make do
with older technology because the economic gains just
aren't there. Makes for an interesting Imperium,
where high tech isn't always what's craved.
It would be interesting to live in a society where
the "newest and best" syndrome is greeted with boredom
or cynicism. Of course, the eye isn't filled with seeing,
nor the ear with hearing...
Rob
Phil Kitching wrote:
>
> "Luther Martin" wrote:
>
> >With a lot of work you could probably move a program from a robot to a
> >shipboard computer, but it would be a major undertaking. It's probably a
> >fairly involved job, maybe requiring computer-4 or so to pull off. It's
> >certainly not the kind of thing you will do casually.
>
> IMHO
>
> No, no, no!
>
> In another thread we had the question of "could a engineer with computer-8
> undermine the entire Imperial Banking System during the time spent in jump"
>
> Allowing a couple of months for computer-4 makes it as easy as porting a
> new video driver to Linux.
>
> So that would mean you could build a starship computer with built in
> Navigation-4 and Pilot-4. So people would. Then the pilots' union would
> have to find something else to do.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 13:29:09 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> I never said it *was* two sounds. That digraph (o & e run together)
> represents a particular sound and *doesn't* stand for "o sound
> followed by e sound" anymore than the "ae" digraph stands for "a
> sound followed by e sound".
Ah.... *feels stupid for a while*
What is a "two-sound" vowel called then? Like the 'ou' in "foul"?
> It may represent the same *sound*. It's *not* the same *character*.
*sound of head hitting keyboard repeatedly*
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 04:11:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
In mail you write:
> At 06:41 PM 2/4/2000 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>Huh? The *only* things it has in common with the biohazard symbol are
>>tri-lateral symmetry, and the presence of curves. The orientation of the
>>curves is totally different.
>>
>>The biohazard symbol has arcs curving towards and away from the *center*
>>(at least if I remember it correctly). This has curves curving towards
>>*radial* lines.
>
> Maybe I'm just having trouble visualizing the concept of this whole
> green-thorny-trefoil thing, but (as described) it sounds a lot like the
> emblem used by the Klingon Empire in that other Sci-Fi universe.
> Sort of a rounded three-point swastika?
Nope.
Take the upper ("straight") "spike" from the Kligon symbol. Make two
more. Use them to replace the "curved" spikes on the symbol. That'd be
close. Except the klingon "spike" is too wide. It'd need to be longer
or narrower. With a more pronounced inward curve on thhe two sides.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 04:16:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
In mail you write:
> If you have got the harddrive/RAM space, Astrogator will save a
> map of any size, be it a single subsector, sector or multiple sectors.
> During my last Trav game, we printout 16 subsectors (each on a
> separate page), all with different colors for different allegiances
> (with different hatch patterns, too), route colors (with different
> thicknesses and types, too) and different dot colors for system
> contents (scout bases, etc). We then taped them to the wall and
> had one big game map.
>
> I heard there are printers out there that will print print E Size
> bitmaps. If that is true, then maybe you should give it a look-see. I
> realize it's a windows program and probably not very good for your
> karma if you use it, but Carpe Diem.
The trick is to realize that you don't *want* printers for doing maps.
Especially star maps. You want a multi-pen *plotter*. The same goes for
ship plans.
My plotter only goes up to 11x17, but between CAD software and other
things, I hope to get some nice output when I finally get some
recalcritant software and hardware to start working.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 04:20:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
In mail you write:
> In a message dated 2/4/00 11:16:17 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
> shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:
>
> << Toss a few at the dams on the Columbia and a few other rivers, and most
> of the downstream areas will be wiped clean. While I'm at it, I'd toss
> a few small nukes at the aqueducts for LA. New York's water supply is
> just as vulnerable, but its population is so densely packed that it'd
> likely be simpler to just toss a *big* nuke at Manhattan. >>
>
> Living in Vegas, I guess I'm f****d. I live between Yucca Mt. (proposed
> nuclear waste storage), Nellis Air Force Base (rumored to be a major post
> cold war nuclear arsenal), and Hoover Dam...:-)
Don't worry about Yucca Mt. It's not worth wasting a missile on. The
stuff there would bee too deep to be scattered, even if you scored
*several* direct hits with nukes.
And living where you do, it really doesn't matter. Vegas (hell most of
the Southwest!) won't last long once the shipments of food quit coming
in. It's not like you can raise food locally in any significant amount.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 04:24:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Lost Travellers...
In mail you write:
> Does anyone have current contact information for the following
> people? They are signed up to the Traveller-Culture list with
> these addresses, but mail to them bounces with "User unknown".
> Doug Berry, dberry@hooked.net
Post a message in alt.callahans, and Doug or his wife will see it. I'm
not sure what his current address is.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 08:01:10 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
It is a common practice that anything you send to a news service, letter
column becomes the property of the people/group you send it to. A good
example is comic book letter pages, where ideas from letters often get
used uncredited. EC comics in the fifties often in their letter asked
for horror stoy ideas and none of those get credited, in fact they even
ripped of Ray Bradbury uncredited, the only reason they weren't sued was
Bradbury was impressed with the adaption and let EC off with a warning.
It was rumored that Rod Serling during his Twilight Zone run used fan
mailed ideas uncredited for some of his teleplays. Even letter writing
fans can wind up as characters. The most famous was a 60's poison pen
fan writer whose initials were I.V. She wrote mostly to DC comics and
Batman & Detective Comics in particular. In the letter pages, the
editors nicknamed her 'Poison I.V.', and soon there was this new Batman
villain...
If you want to protect your own idea, here is a solution I've used. Get
on your processor (or typewriter), write it up, print in out and mail it
to yourself and don't open the package or letter. This will give you
(unless they've changed the laws) a temporary copyright for your
material. I think it's up for a year but I can't my documentation (it's
pre-computer) so I can't verify the time period.
darkhstarr
Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/3/00 6:45:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> >
> > From: Eris Reddoch
> > Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
> >
> > In <9a.a3a558.25cb4518@aol.com>, on 02/03/00
> > at 03:54 PM, WriteFool@aol.com said:
> >
> > >>In a message dated 2/3/00 2:43:13 PM Central Standard Time,
> > >>stuart.ferris@virgin.net writes:
> >
> > >> Should we really be happy that another Traveller institution has
> > >>fallen into
> > >> the hands of SJG?
> >
> > >> If it is only going to cater for SJG canon then I am not.
> >
> > If it is *only* GT, then it will be marginally useful for me. If it is
> > mostly GT with a lot of generic (what I expect) then it will be useful.
> > If it is a broad mix of all versions and milleux with plenty of generic
> > hooks then it will be *very* useful. Right now, I'm very hopeful.
>
>
> > >According to the site they are looking for material for all Traveller
> > >eras, although putting things into GT stats as well as the original
> > >system would also be appreciated.
> >
> > That's why I'm hopeful. That and the fact that LKW is editing it.
> >
> > >And given the efforts that Pyramid puts into running articles on other
> > >systems (not perfect mind you, but pretty good for a "house" periodical),
> > >I think we can expect coverage of the entire milieu.
> >
> > >There is one way to guarantee diversity though...send in your articles.
> >
> > I'll admit I have a little concern about that. I don't really like that
> > anything I send them, or even post on a message board/chat, becomes their
> > property. I understand it, and in their position would probably do the
> > same thing, but I must say it does chill my desire to post...much less
> > send in articles.
>
> If it's like the usual, they maintain a compilation copyright on the posts,
> you post would still be yours (all online services have such as a rule).
> As for articles, I'd heartily recommend it. Otherwise.....
>
> Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 08:15:23 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Symbols for Medical Facility
>>> Ah! I've got it! Three green "thorns" arranged in a triangle, points
>>> outward.
>>
>> Looks a lot like the biohazard symbol. This isn't a big deal, but :-
>> Colour differentiation would suffice for most sophonts, but would
>> Imperial OS&H legislation mandate that symbols be unambiguous across a
>> wide spectral range (e.g. the Eliyoh with their visual spectrum in the
>> read and near infrared)??.
>
>Huh? The *only* things it has in common with the biohazard symbol are
>tri-lateral symmetry, and the presence of curves. The orientation of
>the curves is totally different.
>
>The biohazard symbol has arcs curving towards and away from the
>*center* (at least if I remember it correctly). This has curves curving
>towards *radial* lines.
I don't suppose you could do some ASCII art to illustrate the difference?
I find myself completely unable to picture your description in my head.
:)
- -- g
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 09:05:21 -0500
From: Thom Jones-Low
Subject: RE: Robot Brains vs. Starship Computers (LONG)
One of the Anti-AI hand waves I supply for MTU is that silicon (or what
ever computers are built of) can be used for building AIs, it just too
efficient. When you build a computer with enough complexity and power to
become intelligent, it's processing input so fast it feels sensory
deprived. And after a few weeks they go insane and shut themselves down.
Attempts to provide a massive number of sensor does not seem to help.
Finding the balance between computer power to be intelligent and
limiting it enough to be useful has not yet been discovered, or if it
has, is not widely spread.
IMTU there are several AI designs in the public net archives on some
high TL worlds, if you know where to look. But they all suffer from this
design flaw. I have tried unsuccessfully to goad my players into
building one during the long boring parts of their time in JumpSpace.
I borrowed this idea from Larry Niven's story "The Schumann Computer",
and I've seen this mentioned in the post-trilogy books of Isaac Asimov
Foundation Trilogy.
I hereby place this writing into the Public Domain.
- --
Thomas Jones-Low
tjoneslo@together.net
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1868
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Traveller-digest Saturday, February 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1869
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: JTAS - Count your blessings and remember Imperium Games
Re: SETI@home monthly report
Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
JTAS and Non-GURPS Traveller Articles
Playtesting (was: JTAS Online)
Re: Symbols for Medical Facility
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: SETI@home monthly report
Honey, I'm home!!!!
FW: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Re: Symbols for Medical Facility
Re: Robot Brains vs. Starship Computers (LONG)
Re: Sword Worlder names
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
re: JTAS
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Sidebars for GURPS Ground Forces (was re: Honey, I'm home!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:28:44 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford
Subject: Re: JTAS - Count your blessings and remember Imperium Games
At 06:03 AM 02/05/2000 -0600, Rob wrote:
>
>Consider a world without Traveller. Consider that a company
>could have become the Traveller line flagship which was out
>of Loren Wiseman or Marc Miller's direct control. Think Imperium
>Games, folks, and count your blessings!
Hear, hear!
Bill Rutherford
worj@home.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:47:48 -0600
From: Ron Brown
Subject: Re: SETI@home monthly report
Which team are you a part of?
Ron Brown
System Administrator
Traveller Downport
Cynthia Higginbotham wrote:
> SD Mooney said:
> > At 4:18 +0000 2/2/00, "Chuck Morford" wrote:
> > >I'm the new member of the team. I have 3 machines working 24/7 on the
> > >SETI@Home project and should be able to process 4 to 6 data blocks per day.
> >
> > I've got a single PPC 603e 200MHz running whenever I'm not using the
> > Mac - it's taking about forty hours CPU time to process a block, so
> > it takes 3-4 days realistically.
> >
> That's odd, it only takes my 200MHz Pentium server about 10 hours
> to process a work block. Sounds like the PPC client needs a little
> optimizing...
>
> --Cynthia
>
> --
> (To be filled in with something clever or really dumb someday..)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:02:47 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
On Fri, 4 Feb 2000 Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
> Living in Vegas, I guess I'm f****d. I live between Yucca Mt. (proposed
> nuclear waste storage), Nellis Air Force Base (rumored to be a major post
> cold war nuclear arsenal), and Hoover Dam...:-)
Not that bad...at least you're _upstream_ of Hoover Dam!
Actually, if you're gonna take out a dam, Glen Canyon's a better choice
than Hoover, because if GC goes, it's likely to take Hoover with it.
Then we'd have some INTERESTING times as the rest of the Colorado river
gets washed out...that'd put a HUGE bolus of fresh water into the Gulf of
California (the volume of Lake Powell AND Lake Mead), knock a big hole
into LA's water supply.
O' course, then the casinos might have to turn off a fountain or two...:-/
Then again, back in the bad old days, we figured we were pretty much toast
right off...Tucson was ringed with Titan missile silos, prime first strike
territory.
Now all that's here is the Air Force 'boneyard' and an A10 training
target...in a strategic nuclear war, mothballed tactical aircraft,
hundreds of miles from any production source of fuel just aren't going to
be worth a whole lot...(yep, I played TW2K, too ;-)
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:12:57 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
On Sat, 5 Feb 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
>
> The trick is to realize that you don't *want* printers for doing maps.
> Especially star maps. You want a multi-pen *plotter*. The same goes for
> ship plans.
Thats only because you haven't see what comes out of the HP DesignJet
3500, Leonard...Postscript level 3, 600dpi, microfine inkjets on their
(admittedly expensive) paper looks abso-freakin-lutely gorgeous. ;-)
Of course, for $12,000 it had better _well_ look good!!!
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:36:12 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
From: Michael Maley
> EC comics in the fifties often in their letter asked for horror stoy
> ideas and none of those get credited,
Not true, and even if it was it would be misleading. I have a number of
original EC horror comics as well as the wonderful Russ Cochran bookcase
reprints (in which every issue is reprinted in its entirety with the
exception of some of the inner front-cover and both back-cover ads). Even
Feldstein and Gaines, the authors, weren't credited. The artists themselves
weren't credited except as far as they signed their work.
It's a moot point, because they *did not* request story submissions in their
letter columns, nor anywhere else in their horror titles.
> in fact they even ripped of Ray Bradbury uncredited, the only
> reason they weren't sued was Bradbury was impressed with the
> adaption and let EC off with a warning.
There is a story which looks a hell of a lot like Ray Bradbury's excellent,
"The Emissary". There are also significant differences. It's unknown whether
the similarity was intentional, although both Feldstein and Gaines claimed
that it wasn't. But that was years after the fact. Ray Bradbury never
threatened legal action and I would seriously doubt he was impressed by the
story. In fact, it's probably one of the worst stories which ever appeared
in an E.C. comic. That's not Bradbury's fault, though. Shortly thereafter EC
started paying Ray Bradbury significant sums of money to adapt his stories
for their titles. He was always credited for the stories he wrote, and
frequently, due to the fact that he was a rather popular author, his name
would appear on the cover. They worked so closely that Ray Bradbury got his
own bio which ran in a number of different titles.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:19:10 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: JTAS and Non-GURPS Traveller Articles
>There *are* published authors on this forum - including published authors
>of Traveller products. Some (though not all) of them, and some others
>think SJG is making mistakes similar to those made by GeoCities and
>others in the rapidly evolving online publishing market. If they are right,
>SJG could lose some goodwill, or even get *less* input into their online
>forums unless policies are made more clear. I think Loren and Keith have
>presented very good answers to the concerns presented, and I, at least,
>know better where I'd stand should my HG3rd Edition work see the
>light of day...and I know better what the effects will be of presenting it
>in SJG's forum.
>
>Walt Smith
Walt, have you checked out the writers guidelines for the new JTAS yet?
They state:
"We anticipate that most of the articles will be used by GURPS Traveller
players, so game-related stats should be in GURPS terms in addition to
those for any other system."
It looks like they are supporting all settings, but mainly the GUIRPS rule
system. If I design a vehicle for T4, for example, they want me to convert
it to GT as well.
I queried this on the JTAS board yesterday (no response yet). My suggestion
was to recommend that all articles caryy game stats in as many systems as
possible.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:22:32 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Playtesting (was: JTAS Online)
>As I don't contribute to playtest, I may be confused, but I thought playtest
>comments were e-mailed in and not sent via www/chat. In that case, I
>can't see
>the huge hassle of setting up an area to download Traveller (only) playtest
>files for JTAS-subscribers as well as for Pyramid.
>
>
>Simon
Setting up access to the files would probably be easy enough, but the
purpose of playtesting is to get comment back, to improve the books. The
discussion boards are both web- and NNTP-based. Some lead playtesters will
accept email comments, but I don't think it's policy.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:52:50 EST
From: Damage169@cs.com
Subject: Re: Symbols for Medical Facility
In a message dated 2/5/00 9:23:59 AM Central Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
<< Take the upper ("straight") "spike" from the Kligon symbol. Make two
more. Use them to replace the "curved" spikes on the symbol. That'd be
close. Except the klingon "spike" is too wide. It'd need to be longer
or narrower. With a more pronounced inward curve on thhe two sides. >>
So the spikes sort of look like very sharp golf tees?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:13:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
In mail you write:
> On Sat, 5 Feb 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>>
>> The trick is to realize that you don't *want* printers for doing maps.
>> Especially star maps. You want a multi-pen *plotter*. The same goes for
>> ship plans.
>
> Thats only because you haven't see what comes out of the HP DesignJet
> 3500, Leonard...Postscript level 3, 600dpi, microfine inkjets on their
> (admittedly expensive) paper looks abso-freakin-lutely gorgeous. ;-)
>
> Of course, for $12,000 it had better _well_ look good!!!
I'll stick with my HP7475A... It was paid for *years* ago. And cost me
under $100.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 11:27:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: Re: SETI@home monthly report
Ron Brown said:
Team? What team? I just downloaded the Linux client from the
SETI@Home site a while back, logged on, got set up, and have
been running daily uploads & downloads ever since.
Was is Das Team?
--C.
> Which team are you a part of?
>
> Ron Brown
> System Administrator
> Traveller Downport
>
> Cynthia Higginbotham wrote:
>
> > SD Mooney said:
> > > At 4:18 +0000 2/2/00, "Chuck Morford" wrote:
> > > >I'm the new member of the team. I have 3 machines working 24/7 on the
> > > >SETI@Home project and should be able to process 4 to 6 data blocks per day.
> > >
> > > I've got a single PPC 603e 200MHz running whenever I'm not using the
> > > Mac - it's taking about forty hours CPU time to process a block, so
> > > it takes 3-4 days realistically.
> > >
> > That's odd, it only takes my 200MHz Pentium server about 10 hours
> > to process a work block. Sounds like the PPC client needs a little
> > optimizing...
> >
> > --Cynthia
> >
> > --
> > (To be filled in with something clever or really dumb someday..)
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
>
- --
(To be filled in with something clever or really dumb someday..)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:44:27
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Honey, I'm home!!!!
I'm back, and panicked.
Anybody have good sidebar ideas for Ground Forces? I am really stuck here.
- --
Douglas E. Berry Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
TravGeekCode:
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 13:54:12 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: FW: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Doug,
How about a sidebar on the liaison roles other military
services play in Imperial (and other) operations?
_Kiniunir_ talked about Naval Officers in the forward
observer role, and IIRC _Scouts_ talked about Scout
personnel being assigned as lander pilots (with appropriate
rank) for the duration. I could also see Scouts as pathfinders
and area experts for frontier world operations.
It might end up to long for a sidebar, or be something
already covered, though.
We also just finished a thread here about military units
coming to the aid of civil authorities during natural
disasters or civil disorder. A sidebar on relationships
between civil authorities and local military garrisons
(native and Imperial) might go somewhere useful.
Good luck on the project.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:40:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
In mail you write:
> If you want to protect your own idea, here is a solution I've used. Get
> on your processor (or typewriter), write it up, print in out and mail it
> to yourself and don't open the package or letter. This will give you
> (unless they've changed the laws) a temporary copyright for your
> material. I think it's up for a year but I can't my documentation (it's
> pre-computer) so I can't verify the time period.
Sorry, but that's *never* been the law. It's a popular copyright myth.
The reason it's not any sort of "proof" of anything? Because you can
mail yourself an *empty* unsealed (or just barely sealed) envelope and
then later stick anything you damn well please into it, seal it and
then claim the postmark "proves" you had the idea first.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:43:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Symbols for Medical Facility
In mail you write:
>>>> Ah! I've got it! Three green "thorns" arranged in a triangle, points
>>>> outward.
>>>
>>> Looks a lot like the biohazard symbol. This isn't a big deal, but :-=20
>>> Colour differentiation would suffice for most sophonts, but would
>>> Imperial OS&H legislation mandate that symbols be unambiguous across a
>>> wide spectral range (e.g. the Eliyoh with their visual spectrum in the
>>> read and near infrared)??.
>>
>>Huh? The *only* things it has in common with the biohazard symbol are
>>tri-lateral symmetry, and the presence of curves. The orientation of
>>the curves is totally different.=20
>>
>>The biohazard symbol has arcs curving towards and away from the
>>*center* (at least if I remember it correctly). This has curves curving
>>towards *radial* lines.
>
> I don't suppose you could do some ASCII art to illustrate the difference?
> I find myself completely unable to picture your description in my head.
> :)
Well, to start with *don't* think of the kind of thorns roses have.
Those are "hooked". Think of something with long "straight" thorns,
like a hawthorn.
There's *no* way ASCII art will do it.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:48:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Robot Brains vs. Starship Computers (LONG)
In mail you write:
> One of the Anti-AI hand waves I supply for MTU is that silicon (or what
> ever computers are built of) can be used for building AIs, it just too
> efficient. When you build a computer with enough complexity and power to
> become intelligent, it's processing input so fast it feels sensory
> deprived. And after a few weeks they go insane and shut themselves down.
> Attempts to provide a massive number of sensor does not seem to help.
All you'd have to do is lower the clock rate on the computer. It'd be
running slower, and the inputs would seem to be "faster". Of course,
this *does* limit the power of the computer. On the other hand, the
limit would be a *lot* faster than a human
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:51:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> I never said it *was* two sounds. That digraph (o & e run together)
>> represents a particular sound and *doesn't* stand for "o sound
>> followed by e sound" anymore than the "ae" digraph stands for "a
>> sound followed by e sound".
>
> Ah.... *feels stupid for a while*
>
> What is a "two-sound" vowel called then? Like the 'ou' in "foul"?
No idea. But "digraph" refers to the character being a combo of two
other characters, and has nothing to do with the sound, per se.
>> It may represent the same *sound*. It's *not* the same *character*.
>
> *sound of head hitting keyboard repeatedly*
It's ok. sometimes things are *so* obvious that we overlook them while
digging for small distinctions. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:15:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
In mail you write:
> So the issue here is how pervasive high technology is In
> Your Imperium.
>
> In My Imperium, average Imperial technology isn't pervasive;
> it's more like modern-day-earth with a jump drive and
> contragrav.
You think technology *isn't* pervasive *now*?
Remember, TL 0 is you, sitting out in the weather, naked, looking for
some sticks and rocks...
*Everything* beyond that is technology.
> So you'll have pilots, astrogators, and
> engineers, rather than robots maintaining everything and
> computers flying the ship. Sure high tech exists, it's
> just never managed to penetrate every nook and cranny of
> our existance.
>
> Besides, how are my crew going to earn money?
By being clever.
> My handwave is that a technology has to have crossed a
> development cost barrier, passed a usefulness metric,
> worked its way into industrial technology, and gained
> public acceptance. My players are believers in public
> acceptance, but only because it's convenient to them.
>
> I wonder if high tech worlds will more often make do
> with older technology because the economic gains just
> aren't there. Makes for an interesting Imperium,
> where high tech isn't always what's craved.
>
> It would be interesting to live in a society where
> the "newest and best" syndrome is greeted with boredom
> or cynicism. Of course, the eye isn't filled with seeing,
> nor the ear with hearing...
One thought that occurs to me is to put a different "spin" on the ideas
behind Vernor's Vinge's "Singularity". Instead of advances feeding on
each other, faster and faster until the result is something that we
*can't* imagine, how about this:
Advances get faster and change is accelerating, until a point is
reached where due to a combo of comm lag and physical transportation
lag (ie you can only move physical objects from point A to point B so
fast without taking a *lot* of time & money to build a faster transport
network) things sort of "seize up".
A major economic dislocation is sure to occur (anything from a bad
crash in the economy to an actual depression). And in the aftermath,
the "this year's model is better" mindset is *very* much disapproved
of. Ditto for the "throwaway economy".
So stuff is built to last, and the changes from production cycle to
production cycle are usually minor, and dictated by engineering, safety
or cost of production. Sort of like the way the old VW bug evolved over
the years.
"Style" still exists. But change for the sake of change is mostly out
of it for "durable goods".
So except for TL changes, stuff will be *intended* to be in use for a
long, long time. You might inherit your grandfather's pocket computer,
and it'd be much the same as one you'd buy new.
TL changes will happen one of two ways:
1. some industry (or company) can afford the capital to upgrade their
manufacturing facilities (probably with imported gear). Even if the
gear isn't imported, the "knowhow" is.
2. the new TL is *developed* locally.
In case 1, products will go from "mature TL X" to "mature TL X+1" "instantly".
In case 2, there will be a period of years (say 10-50) as they learn
the ins and outs of the new technology and optimize it. Sort of like
what we've been doing from the early 70s (first microcomputer chip) to
now (approaching the limits of chips built on silicon).
During the transition, things will somewhat resemble our current
notions of "progress". But I rather expect that there'll be more
"trade-in" offers (because the gear will be *very* resellable on lower
TL worlds) and more "upgrade the equipment" paths available. I also
expect sad experience to have taught them that *true* standards are a
good idea.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 19:00:16 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: JTAS
At 23:44 -0500 4/2/00, Walt Smith wrote:
>There *are* published authors on this forum - including published authors
>of Traveller products. Some (though not all) of them, and some others
>think SJG is making mistakes similar to those made by GeoCities and
>others in the rapidly evolving online publishing market. If they are right,
>SJG could lose some goodwill, or even get *less* input into their online
>forums unless policies are made more clear.
Speaking as someone who dabbles at writing for Traveller, and has
seen the impact of the B*****ds at IG publishing material without
paying for it;
1) I wouldn't usually post a prospective article/topic to a mailing
list such as the TML or an open forum such as JTAS' boards.
2) I'd hesitate to post it to somewhere like the Traveller's Writer's
Guild without disclaimers.
3) If I did post it it would have very clear copyright statements at
both the top and bottom of the email.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 13:10:37 -0600
From: "Bont"
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
> > If you have got the harddrive/RAM space, Astrogator will save a map
> > of any size, be it a single subsector, sector or multiple sectors.
> > During my last Trav game, we printout 16 subsectors (each on a
> > separate page), all with different colors for different allegiances
> > (with different hatch patterns, too), route colors (with different
> > thicknesses and types, too) and different dot colors for system
> > contents (scout bases, etc). We then taped them to the wall and had
> > one big game map.
> >
> > I heard there are printers out there that will print print E Size
> > bitmaps. If that is true, then maybe you should give it a look-see.
> > I realize it's a windows program and probably not very good for
> > your karma if you use it, but Carpe Diem.
>
> The trick is to realize that you don't *want* printers for doing maps.
> Especially star maps. You want a multi-pen *plotter*. The same goes
> for ship plans.
>
> My plotter only goes up to 11x17, but between CAD software and other
> things, I hope to get some nice output when I finally get some
> recalcritant software and hardware to start working.
Adobe seems to be a pretty popular program. It converts bmps
into vector files, I believe. And if not, there are dozens (or maybe
even more) programs out there that do that.
- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)
- - Encrypt your messages!
That way only the government knows what you wrote!
- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!
- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)
- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto
- - Help Stop Forest Fires. Outlaw Matches.
Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
http://www.felixcafe.com/
- - - -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:23:27 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
From: Douglas E. Berry
> I'm back, and panicked.
>
> Anybody have good sidebar ideas for Ground Forces? I am really
> stuck here.
Let's see. In most of the GURPS Trav stuff I have, the sidebars have a lot
of information which is sort of like background material. Since background
material is what I love, see what you think of the following:
A letter from the front wouldn't be a bad idea. Of course, you may consider
that to be a biased comment since I have recently posted such a thing to the
list.
Modern war is acronym and abbreviation heavy. People who work every day with
acronyms and abbreviations tend to turn *every* word into an acronym (for
example: "Marine means My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment").
People also tend to make up nicknames for the things they work with or come
in contact with. For lack of a better term, I'll call them militarisms. It
seems like the phrase "shit on a shingle," for example, is a common
militarism for creamed chipped beef on toast (although I don't if it
originated among soldiers).
Witty little phrases borrowed from popular culture and ported to military
life are common as well. American soldiers in Vietnam applied the
advertising slogan, "You can tell it's Mattel, 'cause it's swell," to the
M-16s they were issued. I hardly need to mention how "Puff the Magic Dragon"
was pressed into military service!
Perhaps a sidebar or two of "militarisms" like these would help to supply
interesting background.
Are these the sorts of things which you were looking for?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:34:46 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: Sidebars for GURPS Ground Forces (was re: Honey, I'm home!)
Sent this, got a funny error message...sorry if you see it twice.
Doug,
How about a sidebar on the liaison roles other military
services play in Imperial (and other) operations?
_Kiniunir_ talked about Naval Officers in the forward
observer role, and IIRC _Scouts_ talked about Scout
personnel being assigned as lander pilots (with appropriate
rank) for the duration. I could also see Scouts as pathfinders
and area experts for frontier world operations.
It might end up to long for a sidebar, or be something
already covered, though.
We also just finished a thread here about military units
coming to the aid of civil authorities during natural
disasters or civil disorder. A sidebar on relationships
between civil authorities and local military garrisons
(native and Imperial) might go somewhere useful. Who
has authority to call for help, martial law in the 3I,
that kind of thing.
Good luck on the project.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1869
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Traveller-digest Saturday, February 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1870
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
JTAS and Pyramid Online
Re: Sword Worlder names
Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Hmm - Beers
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Sword Worlder names
Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Sidebars in Ground Forces
MegaTraveller rules
Choice of Law
Re Symbols
Re Security (Was ATM/Gas Station Scam)
Re: Sword Worlder names
Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
OT: Digraphs (Was: Sword Worlder names)
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 14:03:20 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: JTAS and Pyramid Online
Geeze! I didn't intend to start all that arguing. I posted that I
had some concerns about one small section of a user agreement, and
all heck broke out. Okay, here's the long version, one time...not
to be repeated.
1. I subscribe to Pyramid and JTAS. I read and enjoy the articles.
Occasionally, I skim through the boards and chats. When things that
interest me are in playtest I look at them. I seldom have time or
inclination to post anything. YMMV, but I think I'm getting
reasonable value from my money, if I didn't I wouldn't subscribe.
If you were to ask me should you subscribe, I would say yes,
subscribe to JTAS *and* Pyramid...and tell them I sent you. Heck,
we're only talking about eight cents a day!
2. I'm very happy that SJG is publishing these excellent
supplements for Traveller. I'm glad that they have been successful
enough to expand their offerings to an online JTAS. I wish it and
them continuing success. I don't *use* all that much from the GURPS
core rules and haven't used much from the GT supplements yet either,
but just having them in print is a good thing.
3. Pyramid and JTAS have basically the same user agreement. I read
both fully before subscribing, and refreshed my memory of the
Pyramid agreement this week. Nothing in those agreements prevent me
from enjoying the webzines. I do have concerns about certain parts
of that agreement, maybe you will too, maybe you won't, YMMV. Go
*read* the entire agreement and make up your own mind. I've already
said my concerns don't stop me from subscribing.
4. Specifically, and this isn't a call to continue arguing, it
makes sense *to me* for SJG to claim a non-exclusive right to the
use of material posted to the message boards and chats for
themselves and their customers. If nothing else they need the right
to display and archive the posts and the right to use the messages
(and their content) for themselves and their customers. If that is
*all* they are doing, fine, and that's exactly what that section of
the agreement should say. If they are claiming more than
non-exclusive rights of use on posts not containing an explicit
copyright notice they should spell that out clearly as well. My
concern is that the wording in the first three paragraphs of section
G is too fuzzy, and *could* be argued as giving SJG complete
ownership to all posts not explicitly containing a copyright notice.
I think they should clarify that part of section G, and that is the
extent of my concern.
5. Finally, I firmly believe that public discussion of *concerns*
is a good thing. Discussion should be civil, reasoned, and
substantive, not flames, slams or frivolous....nor should it drag on
forever. Yes, I know, the line between substance and frivolity
is a personal opinion, as is when enough is enough, so when in
doubt, I try to give the other fellow the benefit of the doubt. As
per FIDONet, "Do not offend, nor be too easily offended."
Okay, IMO, enough *is* enough and I'm done,
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 14:17:39 -0600
From: "Richard K. Persky"
Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names
On Sat, 05 Feb 2000 13:29:09 +0100, Jens Rydholm
wrote:
>What is a "two-sound" vowel called then? Like the 'ou' in "foul"?
A dipthong.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 07:22:32 +1100
From: "Robert O'Connor"
Subject: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
Leonard Erickson wrote :-
> Huh? The *only* things it has in common with the biohazard symbol are
> tri-lateral symmetry, and the presence of curves.
> The biohazard symbol has arcs curving towards and away from the
> *center* (at least if I remember it correctly). This has curves curving
> towards *radial* lines.
Oops. My mistake.
Your symbol as described is a sort of 'inverted' biohazard symbol (both
made up from a series of arcs of varying thicknesses), if
I've drawn them both correctly on my scribble pad.
Robert O'Connor
Medcio, Gamer
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 15:36:51 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Doug,
I was watching the history channel last night and they were doing a
story on the "Complete History of the Navy SEALS" (or something like that)
and they brought up two names I wasn't familiar with "Scouts" and "Raiders".
They used these units to form the first "Navy Demolitions Teams". This was
in preparation for D Day if remember right. Anyway, the idea is two fold;
history of units and how they came into existence and "Special Operations"
units that either support the Army or the Armies units that support other
services.....
Good Luck Bud!
Thom Harris (You can have this idea, I'm not "copyright" protecting it.) ;-)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 10:44 AM
Subject: Honey, I'm home!!!!
> I'm back, and panicked.
>
> Anybody have good sidebar ideas for Ground Forces? I am really stuck here.
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry Templar Agent at Large.
> gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
>
> TravGeekCode:
> tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
> ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 21:46:59 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Hmm - Beers
Adding to the TML JTAS debate...
Anyone fancy going to Brubeks ;-) for a few drinks and Trav
conversation (okay so I'm bored)! I'm there now - 1550 CST!
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 16:48:55 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
From: Robert James Eaglestone
> So the issue here is how pervasive high technology is In
> Your Imperium.
>
> In My Imperium, average Imperial technology isn't pervasive;
> it's more like modern-day-earth with a jump drive and
> contragrav.
I can think of a few people who might disagree with you... including myself.
Glenn St-Germain might hang me from the yardarm for mentioning Neil Postman,
but since I'm nearly finished Technopoly, I can't help it. There are plenty
of others though. "Technology" is all around you and it changes your life in
ways you wouldn't expect.
>So you'll have pilots, astrogators, and
> engineers, rather than robots maintaining everything and
> computers flying the ship. Sure high tech exists, it's
> just never managed to penetrate every nook and cranny of
> our existance.
It could be argued, and very persuasively, that it already has.
> My handwave is that a technology has to have crossed a
> development cost barrier, passed a usefulness metric,
> worked its way into industrial technology, and gained
> public acceptance. My players are believers in public
> acceptance, but only because it's convenient to them.
In my opinion, you're going about it all wrong. If you want to come up with
a reason why technologies aren't adopted don't think about it in the sense
of development costs, usefullness metrics and industrial technology.
Technology will always win in the situations, if you look at it
realistically. What you have to do at that point is come up with conspiracy
after conspiracy to explain why new technologies aren't adopted, or are
adopted at a snail's pace.
> I wonder if high tech worlds will more often make do
> with older technology because the economic gains just
> aren't there. Makes for an interesting Imperium, where high tech isn't
> always what's craved.
While I agree that such a mindset may make for an interesting Imperium, it
*won't* be because there's more profit in doing things "the old fashioned
way".
If you want to come up with a culture which is disinterested with
technological growth and which seems plausible, you've got to figure out why
the culture is disinterested in technology. Ask yourself questions like:
What were the 19th century Luddites fighting against?
Why did people flee the early American colonies to live with the Indians at
such a rate that policies of torture and death had to be instituted in many
towns across the East Coast?
Why was the concept of the "noble savage" central to literature, art and
philosophy of the Romantic period?
Why is it that we have books like Brave New World, Frankenstein and 1984 and
movies like Metropolis? Why is it that participants on silly audience
participation style talkshows voice their disapproval of human cloning by
whining, "You can't clone the human soul!"? What is *really* at stake in the
evolution vs. creationism debate?
There's one short, sweet and pat answer:
Technology, in all the forms it takes, is perceived as being at odds with
the very concept of humanity. Your own mileage may vary. Technology also
breaks the bonds of tradition and destroys older, perhaps more established
elements of culture and supplies its own justifications for doing so.
Writing killed the storyteller. Printing killed the scribe. Movies killed
theater. Radio killed the Vaudeville star... and, of course (with apologies
to the Buggles):
"Video killed the radio star!"
I could sit here for hours and continue the list.
> It would be interesting to live in a society where
> the "newest and best" syndrome is greeted with boredom
> or cynicism.
I don't doubt that it might be interesting. I just doubt that you'll get to
it by way of saying technology isn't cost effective or efficient.
> Of course, the eye isn't filled with seeing, nor the ear with hearing...
...which sounds an awful lot like a modern, industrialized conceit to me.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 11:02:19 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
On 5 Feb 00, at 10:15, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> One thought that occurs to me is to put a different "spin" on the ideas
> behind Vernor's Vinge's "Singularity". Instead of advances feeding on each
> other, faster and faster until the result is something that we *can't*
> imagine, how about this:
>
> Advances get faster and change is accelerating, until a point is
> reached where due to a combo of comm lag and physical transportation
> lag (ie you can only move physical objects from point A to point B so fast
> without taking a *lot* of time & money to build a faster transport
> network) things sort of "seize up".
>
> A major economic dislocation is sure to occur (anything from a bad
> crash in the economy to an actual depression). And in the aftermath,
> the "this year's model is better" mindset is *very* much disapproved
> of. Ditto for the "throwaway economy".
>
> So stuff is built to last, and the changes from production cycle to
> production cycle are usually minor, and dictated by engineering, safety or
> cost of production. Sort of like the way the old VW bug evolved over the
> years.
>
> "Style" still exists. But change for the sake of change is mostly out of
> it for "durable goods".
>
> So except for TL changes, stuff will be *intended* to be in use for a
> long, long time. You might inherit your grandfather's pocket computer, and
> it'd be much the same as one you'd buy new.
Sounds like how things were in "the good old days". It amazes me how
many roleplayers (especially fantasy roleplayers, who I'd have thought
would be interested in this) seem to think that pre-20th century people
thought the same way about new innovations as we do. Even 60 years ago
things were built to last and last. Just take a look at a pre-WWII
military rifle - they'll still be around long after the M16s and AKs
have all died.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 11:02:19 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names
On 5 Feb 00, at 13:29, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > I never said it *was* two sounds. That digraph (o & e run together)
> > represents a particular sound and *doesn't* stand for "o sound followed
> > by e sound" anymore than the "ae" digraph stands for "a sound followed
> > by e sound".
>
> Ah.... *feels stupid for a while*
>
> What is a "two-sound" vowel called then? Like the 'ou' in "foul".
A dipthong, I think. Here in NZ a common feature of those with poor
pronounciation is the tendency to turn just about every vowel into a
dipthong.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 11:02:19 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
On 5 Feb 00, at 10:44, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> I'm back, and panicked.
>
> Anybody have good sidebar ideas for Ground Forces? I am really stuck here.
How about a look at a day in an Impie grunt's life? You could have an
on-base, an in the field, and on active deployment example.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 23:20:30 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Sidebars in Ground Forces
Some ideas for you to use/abuse/discard at your leisure:
Some of the sidebars include story seeds. One or three of these would
probably be a good idea. Examples might include "Trapped beyond enemy
lines" (possibly with complications... Predator style), "Fifth column"
(traitors within the ranks... or heroes... depending on your point of
view), "Suicide mission" (which the characters weren't supposed to get
out of alive, but did anyway due to a twist of fate)
One sidebar might include military truths like:
Your weapon was made by the lowest bidder
Whenever in doubt, fire at the closest target
If the enemy is within range, so are you
Example characters and NPCs, officers with odd quirks (strong dislike of
enclosed spaces, extreme arrogance, etc), communications experts with a
sense of humor ("Goooooooooood morning Vietnam")
Listings of standard (and some non-standard) honor awards signifying
participation in certain battles, battle wounds, acts of heroism etc.
A note on how officers and nobility interact and how often they are the
same people.
In-character descriptions of battle scenes, daily military life, etc.
A detailed description of uniforms and rank insignia.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 15:15:59 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: MegaTraveller rules
Once again, Marc Miller has let me send out copies of my Word-formatted
MegaTraveller rules. I'm allowed to send out 12 copies this year. I have
three names on my list, and am looking for nine more interested people.
The rules incorporate most, if not all, of the errata published so far,
but don't have many of the sidebars.
In order to get on the list, you must declare to me that you already own
a copy of the MT ruleset. That was Marc's condition for getting the
rules.
Basically, the first nine responses I get are the winners, which gives
you better odds than getting on that game show hosted by Regis "Annoying
Mindless Chatter" Philbin.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:47:12 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Choice of Law
><< Since SJG has choice of law limited to their home state, US law applies.
> >>
>
>
>Why is there a choice of law limitation on SJG? Do they have a choice of
>law/jurisdiction clause on everything? [Not that it would always hold up]
No, only on contracts. Unless specified in contract, the contract is based
upon the laws of the "residence" or place of execution. To avoid confusion,
most companies which do interstate buisiness will specify a "Choice of Law"
as part of their contracts. SJG, TFG, ADB, SFDB, AOL, CIS, Geocities,
CapitalOne, they all have (or at least had) choice of law clauses.
Basically, it is a way of saying "Since we can't be prepared for everyone's
laws with a standard contract, we'll prepare them under laws *WE know*, and
if you want to contract with us you have to agree to use the laws We Know,
not yours."
I'm not certain, but AFAIK, in the US choice of law is limited to the state
where a buisness has incorporation or the state they are executing the
contract in. So Sears, since they're incorporated in Illinois, when doing
buisiness with me does so under either Illinois or Alaska law. And unless
there is a written exception in the contract, it's the state where said
contract is executed. So the implied contract of making a purchase is
Alaska law, but if I get the charge card, it will be specified they
contract that under Illinois law. And it works so long as the contract does
not specifically break Alaska Law outright.
Now, in the 3i, this brings a much bigger problem; there are well more than
11000 places for choice of law, and they may vary widely in even the most
basic presumptions. So IMTU, Imperial law specifies choiceof law
precedences...
from MTU, and I put forward for your perusal and comment:
The Imperial Litigation Proclimation of 366:
"Let it be know that His Imperial Majesty hath proclaimed upon Choice of
Law for Contracts Within the Third Imperium of Humaniti:
1a) No contract which is to be accomplished solely within one jurisdiction
shall be executed under the laws of any other jurisdiction.
1b) Any contract which shall be executed in multiple jurisdictions shall be
executed under the home laws of the party who issues the contract, provided
that the contract shall be executed so as to be intelligible to all parties
thereto.
1c) Any unit of government must exevute contracts under their own laws.
1c1) When two units of government execute contracts with each other, the
choice of law shall be as follows:
1c1a) When between a parent unit of government and it's subordinate unit of
government, the laws shall be those of the parent unit of government.
1c1b) When between two unit of government both subordinate to the same
parent unit of government, the laws shall be those of the parent unit of
government.
1c1c) When there is no shared parent unit of government save the Imperium,
contracts will be executed under the laws specified by the lowest common
unit of imperial government, specifically the lowest common noble under
whom the majority of the parties fall;
1c1c1) Where not specified, this shall be the Common Commerce Code
maintained by the Ministry of Justice.
1c1c2) Agencies of the Imperial Government shall be under the Common
Commerce Code;
1c1c3) Nobles shall be assumed to be contracting under the Common Commerce
Code except where they specify the laws of their Fief, or the commerce code
as ammeneded to their jurisdiction; such must be specified in the contract.
1d) Where no jurisdiction is known or there is no codified law, the
admirality laws shall apply, as shall the common commerce code, with the
code taking precedence for planetary and the admirality for off-planetary
endeavors.
2) Definitions
2a) Corporations, partnerships, and chartered buisinesses (hereafter,
buisinesses all) shall be assumed to have a home set of laws of the place
where the buisiness was established, unless the buisiness has moved and
ceased to maintain any presence, in which case it shall be moved to the
location of the headquarters of the buisiness, as recorded by the Ministry
of Trade or local equivalent, as appropriate.
2b) The Common Commerce Code is that body of Rules which shall be
maintained by the Ministry of Justice on behalf of His Imperial Majesty.
2c) His Imperial Majesty refers to that Noble Person, regaurdless of
Gender, who shall have been confirmed by the moot, in accordance with the
Warrant of Restoration of Cleon I.
2c1) The Moot shall be as defined in the Warrant of Restoration.
2c2) In the absence of a Confirmed Emperor, the Moot shall have the
Authority of His Imperial Majesty for all the purposes specified in this
decree to be restricted to His Imperial Majesty
2d) Noble Vassal of His Imperial Majesty shall be such Noble Persons to
whom His Imperial Majesty has specified they are to take charge of an area
on His Imperial Majesty's behalf.
2d1) The Term "Noble Vassal" shall be understood to be a Noble Vassal of
His Imperial Majesty.
3) Restrictions
3a) No contract may be enforced when enforcement would violate the local
laws of the location where the party upon whom the contract shall be
enforced;
3b) No contract may superceed the laws of the jurisdiction where it is to
be executed unless the lawmaking authority of said jurisdiction is
legitamate party to said contract.
3c) While suit may be brought in any jurisdiction for actions taken in
violation of the laws of that jurisdiction, contracts may only be enforced
within the laws under which they were executed.
3d) Contracts which are executed within the domain of a Noble Vassal of his
Imperial Majesty may have their choice of law changed for the good of the
Imperium by said Noble Vassal through use of Formal Decree of said Noble
Vassal.
4) Dispute
4a) When there be ambiguous or non-extant choice of law, the Ministry of
Justice shall make determination when it becomes relevant.
4a1) Decisions may be appealed to the appropriate Noble vassal of His
Imperial Majesty, and their decisions through the appropriate nobles until
they reach His Imperial Majesty, who may delegate the decision to the Moot.
4b) Any matter decided by His Imperial Majesty or the Moot shall be final.
So it was Proclaimed and Decreed on the first day of the three-hundred and
sixty-sixth year of the Imperium by Martin III, Emperor and Ruler of the
Third Imperium of Humaniti, before the assembled moot, and it was ordered
also to be promulgated throughout the Third Imperium of Humanity, and in
testament thereof, His Imperial Majesty certifies below with his mark:
[signed] Martin III"
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 13:08:40 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Symbols
>> Leonard Erickson wrote :-
>>> On the other hand, they'd *need* a "poison" symbol that was quick and
>>> easy to draw!
>>
>>> Ah! I've got it! Three green "thorns" arranged in a triangle, points
>>> outward.
>>
>> Looks a lot like the biohazard symbol. This isn't a big deal, but :-
>> Colour differentiation would suffice for most sophonts, but would
>> Imperial OS&H legislation mandate that symbols be unambiguous across a
>> wide spectral range (e.g. the Eliyoh with their visual spectrum in the
>> read and near infrared)??.
>
>Huh? The *only* things it has in common with the biohazard symbol are
>tri-lateral symmetry, and the presence of curves. The orientation of
>the curves is totally different.
>
>The biohazard symbol has arcs curving towards and away from the
>*center* (at least if I remember it correctly). This has curves curving
>towards *radial* lines.
Besides, the Biohazard Symbol of Currrent Earth Useage is remakably like
the Symbol of the Zhodani Consulate.
>>The biohazard symbol has arcs curving towards and away from the *center*
>>(at least if I remember it correctly). This has curves curving towards
>>*radial* lines.
>
>Maybe I'm just having trouble visualizing the concept of this whole
>green-thorny-trefoil thing, but (as described) it sounds a lot like the
>emblem used by the Klingon Empire in that other Sci-Fi universe.
>
>Sort of a rounded three-point swastika?
>
>Am I even close?
Don't bend the points, and you have what I thought Leonard was talking
about. Oh, and drop the circle
[bad Ascii Art]
*
*
***
***
*****
*******
* *
** **
**** ****
******* *******
*** ** ** ***
** **
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:55:30 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Security (Was ATM/Gas Station Scam)
>OBTrav: Would we still use password or PIN security at
>all in the Traveller universe? I would think that some
>type of biometric identification would predominate.
It's still a form of password... just that the pasword is generated by a
device from a physical or imaging sample, rather than directly entered. And
any device which requires an authorization will have some way of confirming
against some stored access authorization list....
Neural Networks, however, are probably the hardest to reverse engineer the
data from... so you might have a neural net which is trained for certain
persons, and against others. The training would be a pain, but at least, in
a large enough net, very hard to directly decipher.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 13:13:45 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re: Sword Worlder names
>Ah.... *feels stupid for a while*
>
>What is a "two-sound" vowel called then? Like the 'ou' in "foul"?
>
>> It may represent the same *sound*. It's *not* the same *character*.
>
>*sound of head hitting keyboard repeatedly*
>
>/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
Two Letters with a single unified sound: Digraph
Two letters which result in two sounds: Dipthong
A mistake I made due to distraction a few days ago.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 14:24:21 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair"
Subject: Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
On Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:44:27, "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
>I'm back, and panicked.
>
>Anybody have good sidebar ideas for Ground Forces? I am really stuck here.
If you haven't put them in already, how about some subset of Murphy's Laws
of Combat?
- --------------
Kelly St.Clair "Mr. Barris, I was. Not aware that. Two members of
kellys@efn.org Team, Rocket... constitutesaswarm."
-- Captain James Kirk, THE TROUBLE WITH POKEMON
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 23:38:56 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: OT: Digraphs (Was: Sword Worlder names)
"William F. Hostman" wrote:
> Two Letters with a single unified sound: Digraph
> Two letters which result in two sounds: Dipthong
But in that case the Scandinavian special characters aren't digraphs, at
least not in our languages. They are always one single character. The
international way of writing those characters are as digraphs, however.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I realize that this thread is sliding heavily off topic right now... I'm
sorry...
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:34:07 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
>During the transition, things will somewhat resemble our current
>notions of "progress". But I rather expect that there'll be more
>"trade-in" offers (because the gear will be *very* resellable on lower
>TL worlds) and more "upgrade the equipment" paths available. I also
>expect sad experience to have taught them that *true* standards are a
>good idea.
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
The Imperium may retain the right to set member worlds tech levels
although this seems to violate the
government-you-have-when-your-not-having-a-government model the most TUs
have. It would be a powerful incentive for a world to toe the line if the
Imperium's inspectors hint that an upgrade is in the offing. Can you imagine
the adventure possibilities that could arise from this?
A leak from the Iridium Throne about an impending upgrade occurs and the
chance to make billions in beating the opposition before they are aware of
it arises.
Same thing but a cargo of Hi TL goods that happens to be in the PCs hold
suddenly is worth ten times as much to the first merchants onplanet. A
merchant gold rush occurs and p*rates flock to the system.
A neighbouring and historically hostile system may soon be upgraded by
the Imperium. The PCs are hired to embarress the hostile government with
acts of unrest and antiImperium sentiment.
It may even be possible for the Imperium to downgrade your TL (it could
happen in my TU, but the Imperium is draconian there). The impact on a
society that was downgraded would be immense, maybe a society of Luddites
would arise?
Jim
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1870
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1870
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Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1871
Date: 2/5/00 4:55:00 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Saturday, February 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1871
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Greetings, robots, and other stuff...
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1870
[none]
Re: MegaTraveller rules
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: MegaTraveller rules
Brubeks
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Greetings, robots, and other stuff...
Re: THE SLR & GPMG...
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Greetings, robots, and other stuff...
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
RE: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:52:11 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Sounds like how things were in "the good old days". It amazes me how
many roleplayers (especially fantasy roleplayers, who I'd have thought
would be interested in this) seem to think that pre-20th century people
thought the same way about new innovations as we do. Even 60 years ago
things were built to last and last. Just take a look at a pre-WWII
military rifle - they'll still be around long after the M16s and AKs
have all died.
"Rupert Boleyn"
Probably not the best example, after WW1 everyone became a bit
justifiably worried about adverse conditions but your right about the idea.
I think it mentions in the refs handbook (MT) that Earth is considered
mainly TL6, the spread of technology is not very diversified and I think
this may go for most Hi Pop planets. When a product is made it may mot be
made to wear out, every new TL item may have a trade-in clause so the
original item can be resold at a lower TL area. This way the original item
keeps generating money long after it has been initially sold. Then you get
places like tattooine in SW, everything there seemed to be part of a hand me
down culture.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:51:32 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Jim Lawrie wrote:
>The Imperium may retain the right to set member worlds tech levels
>although this seems to violate the government-you-have-when-your-not-
>having-a-government model the most TUs have. It would be a powerful
>incentive for a world to toe the line if the Imperium's inspectors
>hint that an upgrade is in the offing. Can you imagine
>the adventure possibilities that could arise from this?
>
>A leak from the Iridium Throne about an impending upgrade occurs and
>the chance to make billions in beating the opposition before they are
>aware of it arises.
Tech level is something the Imperium records, just like they record
atmosphere and hydrographic percentage. It isn't something they set
by decree.
The only thing an "upgrade" like you're talking about would mean
is that the Scouts finally got around to updating the world's
official library data (which often doesn't happen for years on end).
If the world has been listed as tech level 9, but actually deserves a
tech level rating of 10 by now, be assured the nearby merchants have
known about it for the years that it's been true - there isn't going
to be a sudden bonanza when the tech level increase is officially
recorded.
Of course, just like the Emperor could decree that there will be
a terraforming project, he can decree that there will be a technology
upgrade project, and that *could* be used as a carrot to bribe a
world with. Most tech level upgrades take decades, though. Of course,
these decades could be full of nice, Imperial-subsidized high tech
cargos.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:58:28 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Greetings, robots, and other stuff...
This is my first post to TML or any mailing list; I hope I don't
screw up.
I'm an old Traveller ref' from the '80s who is just now getting
reacquainted with the game after stumbling onto a number of WWW
pages about my old hobby. I've ordered the CT reprints from
Far Future and have also got some MT stuff (for tasks & combat &
high tech goodies). Got Striker too... I'm a little rusty, but
here's my 0.02Cr on the subject of robots replacing crew on starships.
An important point to consider is that the robot brains available at
normal Traveller tech-levels are _not_ fully sentient. The Book 8
terms were "low autonomous" and "high autonomous" IIRC. I always
equated these with the level of intelligence displayed by complex
animals (i.e. run-of-the-mill mammals, somewhat bright birds, etc.)
"Limited AI" (huh?) was reached at TL-16 (rare in the 3I), and "full
AI" only at TL-17. Robot (synaptic) computers were non-deterministic
at Imperial tech, but their lack of sentience limited their ability to
understand the implications of novel situations. There would be a
dangerous loss of flexibility of response in vehicles manned by robots
without appropriately trained sophont supervision (with whatever skill
in question as well as, perhaps, robot-ops). It is not a question of
would you want your jump vector calculated by a computer, but would you
want your bridge crew replaced by a trained chimp, when engaging for the
first time a new class of alien warship on which you have no reliable
intelligence data.
AM 2 had a blurb about the K'kree using robot (although they may have
been ROV, I don't remember) small craft. Such vehicles had an additional
- -2 DM on all tasks.
Another thing to consider for YTU is the skill rating for robot brains. I
don't have Book 8 handy, and don't remember how it was figured, but I think
skill-2 just took up twice the space of skill-1. On 2D systems like Trav,
it may be better to increase the space taken up by each skill level
improvement so that skill-2 takes more than double the space of skill-1; and
skill-3 will take more space than 1.5 x the space of skill-2. As an extreme
example of why this may be a good idea, consider the change in probability of
succeeding on a roll of 3+ compared with succeeding on a roll of 4+.
Hope this feels better than a handwave, yet doesn't start any flamewars.
BTW, as a newbie, I have to ask -- What is all this about Aslan females &
comfortable shoes? Is it because they are digitigrade? Aslan males are too.
So are Vargr, IIRC. High-heels all around?
Ludowick@aol.com
"Kittens give Morgo gas." -- Morgo the Great
Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1872
Date: 2/5/00 7:27:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Saturday, February 5 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1872
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Aslan and Comfortable shoes
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1871
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: THE SLR & GPMG...
"Going Native"
Re: MegaTraveller rules
Re Feudal Imperium
Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: "Going Native"
Megatraveller rules
Re: Languages in YTU
Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1869
Re: Robot Brains vs. Starship Computers
RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 20:00:11 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 23:35:03 -0500 (EST),
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:
>Dear Folks -
>Jeff said:
>>The problem of coloring for trade classifications is that you
>>have to either designate colors for each possible (legal)
>>combination...
>[snip]
>>For "border" sectors, especially in a Hard Times or early Milieu
>>Zero type of environment, coloring on the basis of polity
>>membership might be useful.
>>Then, there's coloring purely on the basis of the spectral
>>classification...
>etc etc.
>What you are after are plastic overlays. Do a base map, then three or four
>overlays, each one showing something different.
>Base Map - System positions (outline circle), gas giants, world names
>Overlay 1 - borders and polities, xboat and trade routes
>Overlay 2 - trade classifications
>Overlay 3 - spectral classification
>Any takers?
Conceptually, this is _exactly_ the idea that I'm looking for -
but if it's done in an application like GALACTIC, I don't need a
thick binder full of maps and overlays - I can just pull up what
I need on-screen.
Which, to me, is more "Travelleresque" - do you really think that
the Captain and Broker of the _Empress_Marava_ are going to pull
a binder down off the shelf to check the maps? No, they're going
to punch it up from the ship's computer.
GALACTIC, Heaven-and-Earth (formerly WBD), and whatever has been
done for the Mac are, essentially, "toy" versions of some of the
modules that would actually be available on the _Marava_. So why
not enhance them a bit more to support some of the functions that
the "real" programs will? (n.b. GALACTIC has provisions for
adding modules in! Now, if we could only get a PORTABLE
version...)
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 20:57:48 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
At 10:40 AM 2/5/00 PST, you wrote:
[snip]
>Sorry, but that's *never* been the law. It's a popular copyright myth.
>
>The reason it's not any sort of "proof" of anything? Because you can
>mail yourself an *empty* unsealed (or just barely sealed) envelope and
>then later stick anything you damn well please into it, seal it and
>then claim the postmark "proves" you had the idea first.
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
In Canada, it *is* valid, so long as it is sent registered mail.
Mostly because a Canada Post registered mail envelope is in one of three
states: unused, unmistakably sealed shut or torn in three pieces (I'd love
to know what they use for that glue...).
--Michel
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 16:03:52 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Aslan and Comfortable shoes
>Hope this feels better than a handwave, yet doesn't start any flamewars.
>
>BTW, as a newbie, I have to ask -- What is all this about Aslan females &
>comfortable shoes? Is it because they are digitigrade? Aslan males are too.
>So are Vargr, IIRC. High-heels all around?
>
>Ludowick@aol.com
Someone at some point posted an article on sexuality... and provided aslan
females with a "False Penis", and "Women in comfortable shoes" is a
long-standing euphamism for lesbians. The article posited that Female aslan
were typically bisexual....
It's still a tad bit of a sore subject for some.
BTW, welcome to the TML.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 01:03:36 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
At 19:53 -0500 5/2/00, "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
> thick shag carpeting..
Giggle
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 17:05:27 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1871
Frank G. Pitt wrote:
> > People are THAT stupid? Wow.
>
> Yes.
>
> Like the newspaper story of the bank robber who tried to threaten the ATM
> with a gun. It, of course, refused to co-operate, so he shot it.
>
> And then was arrested by the cop who was watching the whole incident from
> his patrol car across the street
As George Carlin says, "You know how stupid people are? Think of how
stupid the *average* person is. Now keep in mind, half of 'em are
stupider than *that*."
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:11:01 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
In a message dated 2/5/00 11:40:17 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:
<< things were built to last and last. Just take a look at a pre-WWII
>military rifle - they'll still be around long after the M16s and AKs
>have all died.
Among the weapons at last winter's Oregon shoot were several WWII vintage
machineguns (both allied and German) and one Maxim MG. They all worked
beautifully. >>
My two revolvers are thirty and forty years old respectively. Except for
cosmetic damages (bluing worn off, scratchs, dings, etc.), they are in fine
shape and shoot GOOD...I would like to have the S+W factory do an overhaul on
them and "pretty them up" with some laser engraving one day...
Ob Trav: Just how long do small arms last in the 3I?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:13:57 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: THE SLR & GPMG...
In a message dated 2/6/00 12:27:07 AM !!!First Boot!!!, j_pete@bellsouth.net
writes:
<< The American M-60 (unreliable Rambo special) has
finally been given the boot and replaced by the M240. The M240 is a
copy of the (you guessed it) FN MAG. The US has actually been using
M240's for years as coaxial weapons.
>>
I thought we used both as 7.62 chews through underbrush better than 5.56? I
also thought they fixed up the problems like they did with the M16?
Seth
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 16:24:11 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: "Going Native"
>Via electronic medium on 2/5/00 1:48 PM, semo@pil.net wrote:
>
>> Why did people flee the early American colonies to live with the Indians at
>> such a rate that policies of torture and death had to be instituted in many
>> towns across the East Coast?
>
>Say what?!? Seems once again public education has glossed over something,
>would you mind giving a little more detail or perhaps a reference link or
>two?
there are several good works on the phenomena of "going Native". Do an
author search for June Namias, for some good ones.
Also, look for the "Life of Mrs. Mary Gemmison", IIRC the title.
Several things happened in the early american period:
1) Euro' Traders would take native wives in order to establish a link with
a tribe they traded with.
2) Anglo young women taken prisoner by Native American tribes were, once
settled in, treated with both respect and acceptance, provided they
acculturated.
3) Some women fled to native tribes in order to be treated better, but this
appears to be a small fraction.
4) Many native tribes did accept anglos who adopted their ways.
5) Many anglo communities disapproved of Native beliefs, Lifestyles, Laws,
and customs.
6) The policies were not directly related to the fleeing in many cases, but
were religious taboos given force of law. (Separation of Church and State
came about with the rise of the US Constitution in th 1790's...) Many north
eastern Anglo communities were puritanical in outlook, and felt that
non-christian natives were sub-humans, but that anglos, especially those
who feld the christian-dominated communities, were possesed; those who fled
to native civilizations obviously were being led there by the Devil... so
characterized the whole of these civilizations as servants of the devil,
not deserving of the protections peoples of God deserved.
7) Many of the accounts of persons who fled were persons who had broken
some anglo law or who were escaping from indentured servitude...
8) Many more individuals moved simply for new farmlands; a goodly number
(but still a minority by a major margin) were wiped out, but their children
were adopted in to the capturing tribe, and grew up as natives.
9) Some individuals fled to native lands, lived marginal to both white and
native cultures, due to being outcast from their home society, be it native
or anglo.
Then again, going Native is not unique to North America. India, South
America, the South Seas, Africa, and the Orient also had similar phenomena.
The "Going Native" trend was minor, but has become an extremely pervasive
part of american mythology, even if it does have some basis in fact. See
also certain TV shows which glorified the "Going Native" mythos, like
"Grizzly Adams", The Lone Ranger, Zorro. To differing degrees of
"nativization", true, but to some degree or another, they all cover it.
Ob Trav: Going Native will still be a problem anywhere there are disparate
societies in relatively close reach of each other... And it will be
especially problematic if one or the other has religious taboos that are
extensive and or involve rigid behavioural standards and harsh punishments
for breaking them.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:25:40 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller rules
Hello Erwin,
Yes, I own (two!) sets of the MegaTraveller rules. And I
would love one (1) copy of your Word-formatted MT rules.
Rob
Erwin Fritz wrote:
>
> Once again, Marc Miller has let me send out copies of my Word-formatted
> MegaTraveller rules. I'm allowed to send out 12 copies this year. I have
> three names on my list, and am looking for nine more interested people.
>
> The rules incorporate most, if not all, of the errata published so far,
> but don't have many of the sidebars.
>
> In order to get on the list, you must declare to me that you already own
> a copy of the MT ruleset. That was Marc's condition for getting the
> rules.
>
> Basically, the first nine responses I get are the winners, which gives
> you better odds than getting on that game show hosted by Regis "Annoying
> Mindless Chatter" Philbin.
>
> --
> Erwin Fritz
> Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
> http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 16:33:52 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Feudal Imperium
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
>Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
>
>>One locally popular view is that the Imperium's existence has
>>nothing to do with "nationhood." It exists to regulate and control
>>interstellar trade to the benefit of: 1. the member systems, 2. the
>>noble families, 3. the megacorporations, or 4. some other group(s)
>>which remain unnamed...choose one or more, mix well and distract the
>>populous with tales of Zho and Sol evil.
>>
IMTU, in order, 2, 3, 1. The Nobles desire to see the Megacorps succeed,
since a charter involves a 1% share minimum to the Ruler of the area under
which your charter is granted. Most Noble Fiefs are mostly stock shares
IMTU.
>>...or...The Imperium is the duce ex machina of our Traveller games,
>>to be dropped on the players by the GM as and how needed.
Definitely. Players are far less likely to go after the Imperium after
seeing a world in flames from Saturation Nuclear Bombardment from Orbit....
typical result of resisting an "Imperial Intervention" IMTU. Happens about
once every 25 years IMTU... and the news footage is generally spectacular.
INI tends to bring as many news crews with as possible for interventions.
>>Eris,
>
> Ah, but I want the Imperium to be more than these !(IMTU). So I make it
>more pervasive, more powerful and more intrusive. But MTU is very different
>to the standard TU.
IMTU, it is also pervasive, but definitely not Overt like, say WH40K's.
> MTU is more feudal, the army and marine units are 'owned' by their
>respective captains and colonels. Mercenary units are generally either
>condottiere's or monastic warrior orders. The nobles are prohibited from
>using anything but melee weapons on each other (otherwise it's considered
>murder). The Imperium IMTU is very active and acts as a shadowy power
>controlling and influencing world governments, it actively discourages
>communication between systems and encourages isolationism. Creativity in
>scientific endeavour is the sole provence of the Imperium, all world
>governments know that someone has exceeded their TL somewhere and it's not
>worthwhile spending money on R&D when the Imperium can dole out technology
>if your good.
> Jim
IMTU, Feudalism is the rule, but not so thorough as YTU it seems. IMTU, the
Subsector fleet answers to the Subsector Duke. Some minor multi-system
polities came in as counties. World rulers are Honor Barons, and the
Imperial Rep is the Imperial Baron. His Huscarles are there to protect
Imperial Interests. Etc.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:30:41 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Pretty colors on the Subsector Map
On 02/05/00 at 08:00 PM, Jeff Zeitlin said:
>>What you are after are plastic overlays. Do a base map, then three or four
>>overlays, each one showing something different.
>>Base Map - System positions (outline circle), gas giants, world names
>>Overlay 1 - borders and polities, xboat and trade routes
>>Overlay 2 - trade classifications
>>Overlay 3 - spectral classification
>>Any takers?
>Conceptually, this is _exactly_ the idea that I'm looking for -
>but if it's done in an application like GALACTIC, I don't need a thick
>binder full of maps and overlays - I can just pull up what I need
>on-screen.
>Which, to me, is more "Travelleresque" - do you really think that the
>Captain and Broker of the _Empress_Marava_ are going to pull a binder
>down off the shelf to check the maps? No, they're going to punch it up
>from the ship's computer.
>GALACTIC, Heaven-and-Earth (formerly WBD), and whatever has been done for
>the Mac are, essentially, "toy" versions of some of the modules that
>would actually be available on the _Marava_. So why not enhance them a
>bit more to support some of the functions that the "real" programs will?
>(n.b. GALACTIC has provisions for adding modules in! Now, if we could
>only get a PORTABLE version...)
Are Jim and Stuart on the TML? If they aren't we need to forward
this to them. If they are how about it guys?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 18:44:19 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
On Sat, 5 Feb 2000, Chris Seamans wrote:
> Why is it that we have books like Brave New World, Frankenstein and 1984 and
> movies like Metropolis? Why is it that participants on silly audience
> participation style talkshows voice their disapproval of human cloning by
> whining, "You can't clone the human soul!"? What is *really* at stake in the
> evolution vs. creationism debate?
>
> There's one short, sweet and pat answer:
>
> Technology, in all the forms it takes, is perceived as being at odds with
> the very concept of humanity. Your own mileage may vary. Technology also
> breaks the bonds of tradition and destroys older, perhaps more established
> elements of culture and supplies its own justifications for doing so.
Considering the one single thing that really separates us hairless apes
from the hairy apes is our extensive use of technology, it's a pretty
weird perspective.
The Luddites weren't angry because 'Technology is Bad', they were angry
that the new milling technology was going to take their living away from
the.
Printing hardly killed the scribe...the scribe was more than happy
enough to put down the pen and take up the type box, believe me.
The 'Noble Savage', Metropolis, 1984, and Brave New World all arose out of
late-19th century artistic and philosophical sentiments. This is the
origin of the modern 'Technology is Evil' trends.
People don't argue that 'You can't clone the human soul' because the
technology is somehow dehumanizing, they're simply unable or unwilling to
face evidence that, after all, there might not be anything to this 'soul'
thing anyway.
Besides, it's a persuasive argument (to me at least) that one of the
emotional foundations of the whole God-Creator thing, is that we are 'The
Apes That Make Things', therefore we look for a Watchmaker.
It's only natural, given our virtually instinctive bent toward directed,
technological solutions to everything, that we have such a hard time
accepting that complex organisms and other structures can arise via
natural, non-directed processes.
We're going to have a HARD time changing away from technological
advancement.
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 17:52:17
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
At 01:03 AM 2/6/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>At 19:53 -0500 5/2/00, "Douglas E. Berry"
wrote:
>> thick shag carpeting..
>
>
Oh, BEHAVE!!!
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 19:53:32 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: "Going Native"
On 02/05/00 at 04:24 PM, "William F. Hostman" said:
>Ob Trav: Going Native will still be a problem anywhere there are
>disparate societies in relatively close reach of each other... And it
>will be especially problematic if one or the other has religious taboos
>that are extensive and or involve rigid behavioural standards and harsh
>punishments for breaking them.
Opinion...scatter a few Solomani in systems all over the newly
defeated Second Imperium and no wonder The Rule of Man soon
collapsed and Vilani influence soon regained dominance. Of course,
without the structure of the 2nd Imperium the worlds remained
fragmented.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 02:11:49 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Megatraveller rules
Erwin,
I got this when I tried to mail you
Matt
- -----Original Message-----
From: MAILER-DAEMON@duke.electric.net
To: mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk
Date: 06 February 2000 02:06
Subject: failure notice
>Hi. This is the qmail-send program at duke.electric.net.
>I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
addresses.
>This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
>
>:
>Connected to 209.82.120.89 but sender was rejected.
>Remote host said: 550 ... Sorry,your site is on
our anti-spam list.
>
>--- Below this line is a copy of the message.
>Erwin,
>
>If I'm not too late, I'd like a copy.
>
>I affirm that I own all the MT rules.
>
>Matt
>
>Matthew Bond
>mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk
>www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...
>...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"
>--------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 03:20:30 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Languages in YTU
>Luther Martin writes:
>The the Swords Worlds' language is also interesting to an amateur language
>geek like myself. I read a book a few years back, something like
>"Archaeology and Language," in which the author discussed research which had
>found a fairly reliable way of measuring the distance in time between two
>languages. Apparently there is a fairly constant rate of change between
>languages over time which come from a common root, like English and German
>(both Germanic), or even English and Hindi (both Indo-European), and you can
>use this to estimate the time at which the languages became separate.
It sounds very generalized at best and fallacious at worse. I've been told
that Icelandic is considerably closer to Old Norse than Swedish, Danish and
Norwegian, yet they began diverging at about the same time AFAIK. And then
there are the artificial revivals. Norway has a reconstructed language
based on Old Norwegian and I think Ireland is keeping Gaelic 'alive' with
government help and regulations.
>It would be an interesting (yet pointless) exercise to apply this technique
>to the SW language to estimate how far back it split off from other languages.
Well, if you had a Swordic[*] textbook from the Classic Era, you could do that,
but we know, or can at least reasonably guess, when it split off. The Sword
Worlder ancestors left Earth in -420. Presumably that's when it started to
diverge.
_Contact: The Sword Worlds_ in JTAS#18 says that "The official language of
the Sword Worlds is a variant of Icelandic, borrowing heavily from other
Nordic languages as well as from Germanic tongues and from Vilani". I would
guess that this reflects the composition of the original colony in some way.
BTW. After developing on Earth for 2000 years and then getting mixed up with
Danish, Norwegian, Swedish[**], several Germanic languages and Vilani, then
allowed to develop for another 1500 years (including a dark age lasting
several generations), anyone using 20th Century Icelandic to represent
Classic Era Swordic is propably at least as far off the mark as anyone
using anglo-saxon to represent 20th Century English (After all, English
can be described as 'a variant of Anglo-Saxon borrowing heavily from French
and Danish').
[*] To coin a name for the Sword Worlder language.
[**] And maybe Finnish too!
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Hellfire!" erupted Thomas Covenant, his raw, self-inflicted nostrils
clenching in white hot, stoical anguish while his gaunt, compulsory visage
knotted with fey misery. His lungs were clogged with ruin. A hot, gelid,
fulvous tide of self-accusation dinned in his ear: _leper outcast unclean_...
To release the analystic refulgence, the wild magic of the white gold ring
he wore, could conceivable shatter the Arch of Time, utterly destroy the
Land, and put a premature, preterite end to the plot!
Yet what other way was there? The argute notion pierced his mind like a
jerid. Only thus could the unambergrised malison of Lord Foul be aneled.
Only thus. Hellfire and damnation!
At that point he was struck by a swift, sapid lucubration.
--- "Play it again, Frodo" by Dave Langford
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 21:26:59 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Nuclear war effects (was Re: Languages in YTU)
On Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:37:03 -0500 (EST), Bruce Johnson
wrote:
>Actually, if you're gonna take out a dam, Glen Canyon's a better choice
>than Hoover, because if GC goes, it's likely to take Hoover with it.
_The_Jihad_Ultimatum:_A_Novel_ by John D. Randall. Good book.
Doesn't actually focus on the taking out of GC, but the idea is
well explored in connection with the real plot.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 21:33:03 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1869
On Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:37:03 -0500 (EST), you wrote:
>Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:44:27
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>Subject: Honey, I'm home!!!!
>I'm back, and panicked.
>Anybody have good sidebar ideas for Ground Forces? I am really stuck here.
History - or notable episodes therefrom - of 'well known' units.
Especially when they illustrate the unit at their finest in
carrying out the mission of the ground forces. Or when they
illustrate them at their worst in fouling it up...
Anecdotes about the rivalries between the ground forces and other
arms.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 22:36:20 -0500
From: Thom Jones-Low
Subject: Re: Robot Brains vs. Starship Computers
>
> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:48:39 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: Robot Brains vs. Starship Computers (LONG)
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > One of the Anti-AI hand waves I supply for MTU is that silicon (or what
> > ever computers are built of) can be used for building AIs, it just too
> > efficient. When you build a computer with enough complexity and power to
> > become intelligent, it's processing input so fast it feels sensory
> > deprived. And after a few weeks they go insane and shut themselves down.
> > Attempts to provide a massive number of sensor does not seem to help.
>
> All you'd have to do is lower the clock rate on the computer. It'd be
> running slower, and the inputs would seem to be "faster". Of course,
> this *does* limit the power of the computer. On the other hand, the
> limit would be a *lot* faster than a human
>
The handwave was that the complexity of processor(s)/sofware required
to be "intelligent" and the power of computer processing was set so it
wasn't possible to do both at the same time. You could limit the speed
of the system to prevent it from getting bored by lack of input, and
then it too slow to be "intelligent". Conversly, having the complexity
to be intelligent (about Int 5) required enough processing power it
could handle most sensor inputs and still be sensory deprived. One of my
players came up with the plan of alternating the speed of the processor
(or shutting it down periodically) but thought viewing the world as if
it were lit by a strobe would be even more disturbing.
I did have robots, but they were generally special purpose machines
with limited skill levels (1 or 2), generally expert systems or low int
(2 or 3) AI's.
It's a handwave. No one IMTU complained too much.
- --
Thomas Jones-Low
tjoneslo@together.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 22:59:48 -0500
From: Thom Jones-Low
Subject: RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
>> Anybody have good sidebar ideas for Ground Forces? I am really stuck here.
>
> Individual Uunit histories.
>
> Frankie
I vote for this as well. How about the Duke Husclars history and a few
of the units involved in the invasion of Terra. I know a couple of units
never made it off Terra, and knowing the birth and death of a unit may
add more color.
- --
Thomas Jones-Low
tjoneslo@together.net
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1872
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Traveller-digest Sunday, February 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1873
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Languages in YTU
Re: copyright law
Re: Nazis and Solomani
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1870
Military Police
New UPP idea!
Re: New UPP idea!
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
Re: MegaTraveller rules
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
Re: MegaTraveller rules
Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
RE: JTAS copyright
Re: New UPP idea!
Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 21:36:06 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Languages in YTU
Hans Rancke wrote:
> >Luther Martin writes:
>
> >The the Swords Worlds' language is also interesting to an amateur
language
> >geek like myself. I read a book a few years back, something like
> >"Archaeology and Language," in which the author discussed research which
had
> >found a fairly reliable way of measuring the distance in time between
two
> >languages. Apparently there is a fairly constant rate of change between
> >languages over time which come from a common root, like English and
German
> >(both Germanic), or even English and Hindi (both Indo-European), and you
can
> >use this to estimate the time at which the languages became separate.
>
> It sounds very generalized at best and fallacious at worse. I've been told
> that Icelandic is considerably closer to Old Norse than Swedish, Danish
and
> Norwegian, yet they began diverging at about the same time AFAIK. And then
> there are the artificial revivals. Norway has a reconstructed language
> based on Old Norwegian and I think Ireland is keeping Gaelic 'alive' with
> government help and regulations.
The original research was presented in:
Lees, R. B., 1953, "The basis of glottochronology," Language 29, 113-25
Language is The Big One for linguistics, so the research is not just the
work of a quack like me.
The results are interesting since they are based on more than just
Indo-European languages. For example, the changes over time between ancient
Chinese and modern Mandarin were also included. Apparently the rate of
change over time for languages was fairly (but not exactly) constant across
the world.
By the estimates of this technique, Spanish split from Portugese around AD
1590, and English split from German around AD 590.
The problem with linguistics, of course, is that it can never be an exact
science. Borrowing of words from other language, like English loves to do,
makes the meaning of such calculations somewhat suspect to me. For a
linguist character or NPC in the Traveller universe, however, it does provid
e a tool for estimating the history of a civilization. No accuracy
guaranteed. But if you are looking at events over a 5000 year period, maybe
narrowing down an event to within even 100 years is helpful.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 22:31:58 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: copyright law
...
> In Canada, it *is* valid, so long as it is sent registered mail.
>Mostly because a Canada Post registered mail envelope is in one of three
>states: unused, unmistakably sealed shut or torn in three pieces (I'd love
>to know what they use for that glue...).
Here's some notes summarising a guide to then-current (`93) Canadian copy-
right law and regulations (and in compliance with the Berne Convention, et al.):
>OBTAINING COPYRIGHT PROTECTION - no formalities are necessary under
Canadian law.
> - no necessity to use any insignia or declaration of copyright.
> - advantages are as a reminder of the rights, evidence in event of legal
> action, and helping interested parties to locate the owner. Importantly,
> by U.S. law ignorance of copyright cannot exist in regards to a marked work.
> - example "Copyright Name of Copyright Owner Year Of First Publication"
>
>REGISTRATION IN CANADA- through Consumer And Corporate Affairs Canada,
> Copyright Office. Cost is 35 or 40 dollars, and worth it for commercially
> valuable properties.
> - value is in resultant legal presumptions that copyright exists in a work
> and in the unequivocal statement of ownership. Claiming ignorance of the
> status of a work registered with the office is difficult.
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 22:32:25 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Nazis and Solomani
>From: "David P. Summers"
>Subject: Re: Nazis and Solomani (was Re: Instant Zombie Bullets?)
...
>While the blurbs on the Solomani always play up the supremacy
>aspect, if you look at the actions of the Confederation, they
>have been more nationalistic than anything else. (Getting
>"our" space back, freeing terra, etc.) so my take is no.
>Though one certainly could play up that aspect if one wanted to.
That works well enough for the 1100's, but their past (the expansion
of the Sphere into 3I space until war resulted) more supports the other
approach.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:34:57 +0400
From: "andrew Long"
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1870
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
>>>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 15:15:59 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: MegaTraveller rules
Once again, Marc Miller has let me send out copies of my
Word-formatted
MegaTraveller rules. I'm allowed to send out 12 copies this year. I
have
three names on my list, and am looking for nine more interested
people.
- - - --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
Erwin
Please add me to your list, it I'm not too late (Too many time zones
between us!)
I affirm that I DO possess the MT rules already (in storage, four
time zones and eight hours flight time away)
regards, Andy Long
Andylong@bigpond.com OR andrewlong@hotmail.com OR andy.long@icl.com
OR andyl@icluae.co.ae
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.2 for non-commercial use
iQA/AwUBOJzd0ftKvbPYMVxkEQI+OgCg4dhxcf2rxHQpcYvO/MI8vHGL3ZUAnigY
mttdGjEzRNRebObOozpsVeh+
=iJIW
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 00:53:52 -0600
From: Alex Ingram
Subject: Military Police
Keep in mind that the role of the military police is to support combat
operations by providing not only basic law enforcement but also control
military traffic movement, ensure rear area security and to control/secure
enemy prisoners.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 00:06:09 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: New UPP idea!
I recently realized the problem with posts on the TML. It's a really bad
form of *communication* Experts tell us that most, probably something like
90% of communication in nonverbal, but on the TML all of the nonverbal part
goes away. You don't know the right context for someone's post, so it's not
as useful as it could be. To correct this, I came up with the following UPP
(Universal Poster Profile) consisting of the traditional 6 stats in the 2d6
range.
Seriousness
2 - Come on, we're talking about a fantasy game here. How serious can that
be?
12 - The Traveller universe is real and Marc Miller just channels it to our
universe. Canon really is truth.
Thick-skinnedness
2 - I never leave lurker status because of the potential flames I might
attract from some of the more outspoken list members.
12 - This is nothing. Try an IETF working group some time. You guys are a
bunch of wusses.
Political Orientation
2 - The money-grubbing Capitalist bosses only make their miserable
livelihoods by exploiting the working class.
12 - Democrats, and anybody to the left of them, are a bunch of whiners who
have never tried to run a business.
Anthropological Orientation
2 - World peace is possible, if we could only get the warmongers to sit down
and shut up.
12 - It's survival of the fittest, and people naturally compete. Warfare is
just another way in which we express this.
Technical Accuracy
2 - It's the qualitative that matters rather than the quantitative. By
worrying about too much detail you are missing the big picture.
12 - I can give a reference in the literature for anything I state as a fact
on the TML.
Gearheaddedness
2 - It's the impact of technology on people which makes Traveller
interesting, not the technology itself. Who cares how it works?
12 - Traveller is hard science-fiction. If you can't back up a design with
physics and calculations then it doesn't belong in Traveller. Leave that
stuff in Dungeons and Dragons.
So if everyone adds this UPP to their signature file, you will immediately
have the needed context. He's a 7C67CA? Flame him, he won't care. He's a
846887? His post had some good ideas, but had some flaws in logic? If you
nit-pick too harshly, you are going to lose any chance of hearing more of
his good ideas.
In any event, it gives one more UPP to rate yourself, friends, etc, with.
With some further refinement it might even become useful.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 01:23:20 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: New UPP idea!
Luther Martin wrote:
> So if everyone adds this UPP to their signature file, you will immediately
> have the needed context. He's a 7C67CA? Flame him, he won't care. He's a
> 846887? His post had some good ideas, but had some flaws in logic? If you
> nit-pick too harshly, you are going to lose any chance of hearing more of
> his good ideas.
>
> In any event, it gives one more UPP to rate yourself, friends, etc, with.
> With some further refinement it might even become useful.
Ok... How's that?
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 05:19:34 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
From: Bruce Johnson
> Considering the one single thing that really separates us hairless
> apes from the hairy apes is our extensive use of technology, it's a
> pretty weird perspective.
The fact that technology breaks the bonds of tradition isn't a perspective.
It's the truth. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is another
matter.
The notion that technology is dehumanizing may be a "weird perspective", but
it may also be true. It's also one that appears time and time again.
I'm not going to weigh in on one side or the other but to simply say that
your above statement seems like an odd perspective to me. If I understand
you right, you're saying that man is his technology. I would tend to think
that the ability to reason, and to think things through is what separates
man from the "hairy apes".
> The Luddites weren't angry because 'Technology is Bad', they were
> angry that the new milling technology was going to take their living
> away from the.
If I'm parsing your statement correctly, you seem to be saying that the
Luddites weren't angry because technology was bad, they were angry because
technology was destroying their way of life, reducing their wages or putting
them out of work entirely (at a time and a place when being put out of work
could, and frequently did mean death), and generally making their lives
miserable. I will admit that I fail to understand how having one's way of
life destroyed, one's wages reduced and one's life being put in extreme
jeopardy can be seen as "good".
In other words, it sounds kind of like you're arguing semantics.
For the most part, it wasn't milling technology. What the followers of good
ol' General Ludd targeted were the machines which were used in the
manufacture of stockings. These machines brought with them a series of
changes which were considerably worse for the locals, specifically in
Nottinghamshire, than the situation they enjoyed with respect to the more
traditional forms of weaving. It actually took them awhile. The piece of
technology which they despised so much had already been making inroads over
the course of about two centuries.
Of course, more of them were appearing, and were available much more
cheaply, because the industrial technologies to *make* them were more
readily available.
It's interesting to note that during the height of the Luddite movement, a
bill was proposed in the House of Lords which would make the destruction of
these "frames" punishable by death. Killing a man and breaking a machine
would each carry the same punishment. To put a fine point on it, a man's
life was equal to the cost of a machine. I tend to think of that as
dehumanization, but your own mileage may vary.
> Printing hardly killed the scribe...the scribe was more than happy
> enough to put down the pen and take up the type box, believe me.
Well, I guess I don't believe you.
During the tumult of the Reformation, those folks who who had previously
scribed (if their monasteries were too far from Rome) were, in fact, being
burned, stabbed and otherwise being mutilated and slaughtered by
Protestants. One might argue that it was some sort of religious madness
which caused all of the insanity. I might be inclined to agree. It was all
made possible by the introduction of the printing press.
Of all of the technologies which I listed in that particular segment, this
was the one closest to literal truth.
> The 'Noble Savage', Metropolis, 1984, and Brave New World all
> arose out of late-19th century artistic and philosophical sentiments.
> This is the origin of the modern 'Technology is Evil' trends.
Not at all. Socrates wasn't particularly fond of the then novel and new
technology of writing, and the modern 'technology is evil' trends tend to
cite him frequently. Still, I won't quibble. I'll bring the timeline forward
a bit.
The notion of the "noble savage" was a notion popularized by the Romantic
movement with good reason. You see, they were sold the line that progress,
embodied in the machinery of the industrial revolution, was a wonderful
thing. Most of the romantics were British. In fact, for the most part,
during that period the only way to see really modern machines up close was
to visit Britain. They had something of a monopoly on them.
So, these people looked around and what they saw was extreme displacement.
Everywhere... Young children stumbled around missing assorted body parts
which they lost at work. These children were dazed after 20 hour shifts, and
they were coughing up body fluids which children have no right to cough up.
I might add that people actually starved in the streets back then, as well.
They would actually have the nerve to die, right there, in front of the
whole world. You see, manufactory owners who had previously employed many
people were able to employ far fewer, for lower wages.
These things, as well as a number of them I'm leaving out for brevity, all
happened, to some extent, because of the new machinery which was being
installed everywhere. The Luddites saw it, and went to the source. The
Romantics saw it, too. Lord Byron identified himself with the Luddites. He
argued against a bill which would make the smashing of hosiery machinery
punishable by death. He also wrote a poem comparing the Luddites quite
favorable with the revolutionaries in America, which was bold on a number of
counts.
So, if the romantic notion of the "noble savage" is the origin of the modern
"Technology is Evil" movement, then it does appear to be tied in with the
whole Luddite movement after all.
As for the others (1984, Brave New World and Metropolis, Rossum's Universal
Robots, and a laundry list of others) I shall not comment on them, in the
interests of brevity. To make the claim that they simply grew out of the
sentiments of the Romantic era would be a gross simplification.
> People don't argue that 'You can't clone the human soul' because
> the technology is somehow dehumanizing, they're simply unable or
> unwilling to face evidence that, after all, there might not be anything
> to this 'soul' thing anyway.
You're overlooking what the "soul" actually means in Christianity.
Considering the fact that it's frequently viewed as the essence humanity,
one might say, "If there's nothing to this "soul" thing, then there might be
nothing to this "humanity" thing either".
> Besides, it's a persuasive argument (to me at least) that one of the
> emotional foundations of the whole God-Creator thing, is that we
> are 'The Apes That Make Things', therefore we look for a
> Watchmaker.
Possibly, but I'm always leery of people who cite "emotional needs" as the
basis for a position. It always looks to me like a cop out.
"Well, we can't figure out, scientifically, why people believe in deities.
It must be an emotional need."
Of course, it's also a good time to note that your frequent references to
humans as apes of various sorts while arguing that technology isn't
dehumanizing is rather ironic.
> It's only natural, given our virtually instinctive bent toward directed,
> technological solutions to everything, that we have such a hard time
> accepting that complex organisms and other structures can arise
> via natural, non-directed processes.
That's certainly possible.
> We're going to have a HARD time changing away from
> technological advancement.
My original point concerned how one could come up with a plausible
explanation for slower technological progress. The traditional versions
favored on this list have always struck me as a bit odd. The particular idea
which I was responding to, which was that technological growth would cease
to make make economic sense also struck me as being a bit off.
I was pointing my finger, by way of a pat answer to a series of rhetorical
questions, to both the destabilizing, and perceived dehumanizing nature of
technological progress. This is not a new concept. It didn't start with the
Luddites, nor the Romantics, nor the Catholic Church. It probably didn't
start with Socrates either, but he just happens to be the earliest anyone
can find. Yes, it is ironic that a man who argued against writing had his
complaints lodged in print, for future generations, by Plato.
Please note, before any of you rabid technophiles out there begin getting
surly, I'm not arguing that technology is evil and everybody should burn
their computers before it's too late. I'm offering a line of thought for
people who want to build a plausible reason for slowing technological growth
in the Imperium. These are arguments which currently exist, have existed,
and which will likely exist in the future.
It's not farfetched to say that one day people will start thinking about the
possible negative ramifications of technology before they allow them to
become household objects.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 05:47:48 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
Oh my gawd. You must be kidding. PLEASE tell me this is just an urban
myth!
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 7:40 PM
Subject: RE: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship
Computers (LONG))
>
> > People are THAT stupid? Wow.
>
> Yes.
>
> Like the newspaper story of the bank robber who tried to threaten the ATM
> with a gun. It, of course, refused to co-operate, so he shot it.
>
> And then was arrested by the cop who was watching the whole incident from
> his patrol car across the street
>
> Frankie
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 03:20:18
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
At 05:47 AM 2/6/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Oh my gawd. You must be kidding. PLEASE tell me this is just an urban
>myth!
Nope.
Even better was the guy who drove into the bank's drive up lane. He sent a
note to the teller "Give me all the money, I have a gun." To prove this, he
had thoughtfully included the gun in the package.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 12:23:38 GMT
From: "i Steve"
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller rules
Hi Erwin,
I hereby affirm that i once purchased a megatraveller box set, and have the
books SOMEWHERE in my loft, but have no idea where, therefore i'd love to
get hold of a copy on word format...bet i'm too late though...lol
iSteve
isteve@outhere.f9.co.uk
isteve1967@hotmail.com
ICQ#54933683
Yoda DOS: (A)bort or (F)ail, there is no (R)etry....
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 11:28:55 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
At 22:24 -0500 5/2/00, "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>At 01:03 AM 2/6/2000 +0000, you wrote:
> >At 19:53 -0500 5/2/00, "Douglas E. Berry"
>wrote:
> >> thick shag carpeting..
> >
>Oh, BEHAVE!!!
Sorry Uncle Doug, I forgot there were adults present.
And I hoped for the first February keyboard kill there :-(
Dom :-)
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:19:03 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
From: Steven Hudson
> I haven't read the CP2020 main rules for years, but recently got the Deep
> Space book to add to my 2300 AD collection :>
Hey! Great minds!
Actually, I was considering using it in a non-OTU Traveller setting, where
FTL was done by wormholes. The idea is that you can push any old can
through the wormholes, so colonisation can be done on the cheap, and with
obselete 21st century technology.
Which brings me to my main point: What would be the shortest time required
to terraform a Mars-type world to the point where it could support a
terrestrial ecosystem and "open sky" colony? I'm assuming about TL15, and
somewhat better biotech, nanotech and so on than in the OTU. In other
words, it can happen quicker than in the OTU, but how much quicker? What
wouldn't require particularly outrageous handwaving, and wouldn't cause you
to emit puking noises if you heard it in a campaign you were in?
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 14:03:21 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller rules
Hi,
If you still have a space on your list, I'd like to receive a copy. I have a
copy of the original books, from the Boxed set, but they are getting really
scruffy and pages are falling out.
Seems Freenet is on your anti-spam list too.
Thanks,
On Sat, 05 Feb 2000, you wrote:
> Once again, Marc Miller has let me send out copies of my Word-formatted
> MegaTraveller rules. I'm allowed to send out 12 copies this year. I have
> three names on my list, and am looking for nine more interested people.
>
> The rules incorporate most, if not all, of the errata published so far,
> but don't have many of the sidebars.
>
> In order to get on the list, you must declare to me that you already own
> a copy of the MT ruleset. That was Marc's condition for getting the
> rules.
>
> Basically, the first nine responses I get are the winners, which gives
> you better odds than getting on that game show hosted by Regis "Annoying
> Mindless Chatter" Philbin.
>
> --
> Erwin Fritz
> Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
> http://www.glja.com
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:35:07 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
Next time some schmuck calls ME stupid, I'm going to remember this..:)
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship
Computers (LONG))
> At 05:47 AM 2/6/2000 -0500, you wrote:
> >Oh my gawd. You must be kidding. PLEASE tell me this is just an urban
> >myth!
>
> Nope.
>
> Even better was the guy who drove into the bank's drive up lane. He sent a
> note to the teller "Give me all the money, I have a gun." To prove this,
he
> had thoughtfully included the gun in the package.
> --
>
> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 18:16:10 -0000
From: "Mark Preston"
Subject: RE: JTAS copyright
In the UK at least, that is **only** true if you **sign** an explicit
relinquishement document for either the forum as a whole or for the
publication in particular. UK law follows international (on
copyright), so I assume that this is the case in most countries
outside the US. Since NGs have no explicit nation of origin **unless
stated** in the name then US law would not apply. However, this is a
mailing list and the law **may** apply, depending on where the list is
hosted. I would say it would be an interesting case that lawyers would
love to get their teeth into and we should ignore .
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Anthony
> Jackson
> Sent: 04 February 2000 20:42
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
>
>
> Frank G. Pitt writes:
>
> > But under international copyright law, even that isn't
> neccessary, as
> > you have copyright on anything you publish (even on
> Usenet) unless you
> > explicitly relinquish it.
>
> And a user agreement in a public forum stating that you
> relinquish it unless
> specifically stated otherwise is 'explicitly relinquishing'
> the copyright.
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 00:38:40 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Re: New UPP idea!
Hey Luther, great idea!
I'd suggest arranging the stats a bit to conform them
more to the Traveller UPP:
Competetiveness (STR)
Technical Accuracy (DEX)
Thick-Skinnedness (END)
Seriousness (INT)
Gearheadedness (EDU)
Politics (SOC) (2=ralph nader, 12=ghengis khan)
OR, why don't you just surf over to the articles at Downport.com
for the IMTU code in UWP format?
www.downport.com/eaglestone/imtu.html
Even better, Luther, why don't we collaborate together with
Jason Kemp and merge his UTUP, your UPP and my IMTU into one
profile?
Rob Eaglestone 0609 C588865-B S va- so- zh vi da+ 323
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 08:56:59 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
Alan Bradley wrote:
>
> Which brings me to my main point: What would be the shortest time required
> to terraform a Mars-type world to the point where it could support a
> terrestrial ecosystem and "open sky" colony? I'm assuming about TL15, and
> somewhat better biotech, nanotech and so on than in the OTU. In other
> words, it can happen quicker than in the OTU, but how much quicker? What
> wouldn't require particularly outrageous handwaving, and wouldn't cause you
> to emit puking noises if you heard it in a campaign you were in?
>
> Alan Bradley
> alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
It can happen much quicker with rules other than in the OTU. However,
in order to keep the Imperial economy from getting out of balance,
I'd put terraforming Mars at the 100-year level as a minimum. Unless
someone figures out the requirements, I'd use a Handwaving Table thus:
WS = World Size
Raise hydrosphere 10% : (WS * 2) Years, if you have a supply of ice
handy
Raise atmosphere 10% : (WS * WS * 10) Years
Change atmosphere : (WS * WS * WS * 10) Years
Raising the hydrosphere takes on the order of 100s of millions of dtons
of water. For the handwave, I'd say the water has to be introduced to
the planet, say from ice in an asteroid belt [assuming there's enough].
If you're a generous referee, you might rule that the introduction
of this water would thicken the atmosphere a bit. But probably
what you'll need anyhow are bunches of huge plants to manage what
atmosphere there is and bring it to an acceptable level.
Mars is a size 4 world? Or size 6? If it's a size 6, then you
can see my handwaves at members.home.net/eaglestone/shush.html
However, I haven't thought much about thickening the atmosphere.
A different tack than adding water...
Rob
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1873
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Traveller-digest Sunday, February 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1874
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Word-format MT rules requests, an anti-spam apology
Re: Posting articles
Re: Posting articles
Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
GT: Metator User Interface
Re: Languages in YTU
re: Languages IYTU
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1869
Galactic (was pretty colors)
MT rules set
Re: New UPP idea!
Re: Megatraveller rules
JTAS POSTING was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1869
Re: THE SLR & GPMG...
Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
Re: Posting articles
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 08:06:18 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Word-format MT rules requests, an anti-spam apology
Okay, the list of people getting MT rules is full. You'll be receiving
them today (in fact, right after I send this email).
Several of you were unable to reach me via email due to some anti-spam
measures my company uses. For that, I apologize for the inconvenience.
Please understand that it was nothing personal against you. Your email
was bounced because we get too much spam from your email domain. This
has nothing to do with your email account, it has to do with the
measures your Internet Service Provider has (or has not) put in place to
combat spam.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:52:31 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Posting articles
In a message dated 2/5/00 11:38:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> 1) I wouldn't usually post a prospective article/topic to a mailing
> list such as the TML or an open forum such as JTAS' boards.
Back in the good old days this used to happen though. Those that had access
to GEnie used to post stuff there, those that didn't snail mailed stuff out
for comment.
> 2) I'd hesitate to post it to somewhere like the Traveller's Writer's
> Guild without disclaimers.
The TWG list is/was a way to provide a more useful forum for feedback that
resembled those good old days.
> 3) If I did post it it would have very clear copyright statements at
> both the top and bottom of the email.
Maybe that says something about the current state of affairs? If so that's
too bad.
Bryan
HIWG US
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 11:03:24 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: Posting articles
Bryan,
Do you know if the old GEnie stuff was archived and if you do is it
available for DL? Thanks in advance!
Thom Harris
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Posting articles
> Back in the good old days this used to happen though. Those that had
access
> to GEnie used to post stuff there, those that didn't snail mailed stuff
out
> for comment.
>
> Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 11:49:16 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
Robert James Eaglestone sez:
>It can happen much quicker with rules other than in the OTU. However,
>in order to keep the Imperial economy from getting out of balance,
>I'd put terraforming Mars at the 100-year level as a minimum. Unless
>someone figures out the requirements, I'd use a Handwaving Table thus:
>
>WS = World Size
>
>Raise hydrosphere 10% : (WS * 2) Years, if you have a supply of ice
handy
>Raise atmosphere 10% : (WS * WS * 10) Years
>Change atmosphere : (WS * WS * WS * 10) Years
Of course, the RIGHT asteroid and/or comet could speed up or drastically
alter the whole process. Some examples from SF: "Thunder Strike" by Michael
McCollum, "Heart of the Comet" by Benford & Brin, "Protector" by Larry Niven,
and the, uh, "landing" at the end of Alien: Ressurection.
GC
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 11:01:25 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
I'm only quoting from the 'Mad World of Bill Gaines' on the EC stuff.
If they're not being truthful, then someone should said something when
the book came out.
Chris Seamans wrote:
>
> From: Michael Maley
>
> > EC comics in the fifties often in their letter asked for horror stoy
> > ideas and none of those get credited,
>
> Not true, and even if it was it would be misleading. I have a number of
> original EC horror comics as well as the wonderful Russ Cochran bookcase
> reprints (in which every issue is reprinted in its entirety with the
> exception of some of the inner front-cover and both back-cover ads). Even
> Feldstein and Gaines, the authors, weren't credited. The artists themselves
> weren't credited except as far as they signed their work.
>
> It's a moot point, because they *did not* request story submissions in their
> letter columns, nor anywhere else in their horror titles.
>
> > in fact they even ripped of Ray Bradbury uncredited, the only
> > reason they weren't sued was Bradbury was impressed with the
> > adaption and let EC off with a warning.
>
> There is a story which looks a hell of a lot like Ray Bradbury's excellent,
> "The Emissary". There are also significant differences. It's unknown whether
> the similarity was intentional, although both Feldstein and Gaines claimed
> that it wasn't. But that was years after the fact. Ray Bradbury never
> threatened legal action and I would seriously doubt he was impressed by the
> story. In fact, it's probably one of the worst stories which ever appeared
> in an E.C. comic. That's not Bradbury's fault, though. Shortly thereafter EC
> started paying Ray Bradbury significant sums of money to adapt his stories
> for their titles. He was always credited for the stories he wrote, and
> frequently, due to the fact that he was a rather popular author, his name
> would appear on the cover. They worked so closely that Ray Bradbury got his
> own bio which ran in a number of different titles.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 11:59:58 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: GT: Metator User Interface
Now that the GT: Starships upgrade to GT: Shipyard [1] is complete (aside
from incorporating playtest changes), my programming project this spring is
finally implementing GT: Metator [2].
Before I begin, I'd like to get the user interface right the firt time.
What do people want to see? How important are the non-mainworlds? Are
things like pressure tables useful? Animal encounter tables? Economic
summaries?
How will they use the program? For generating totally new systems or
expanding existing ones? Which is more important: output to text files,
html files, hardcopy, or interactive use?
What else should I be thinking of? (You can look at the other software
demos at BITS to get an idea of my general programming style.)
[1] BITS' licensed starship design utility for the Mac. You can download an
evaluation copy at http://www.bits.org.uk
[2] This will be BITS' licensed system generation utility for the Mac.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 16:57:56 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Languages in YTU
- -----Original Message-----
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 06 February 2000 02:22
Subject: Re: Languages in YTU
>BTW. After developing on Earth for 2000 years and then getting mixed up
with
>Danish, Norwegian, Swedish[**], several Germanic languages and Vilani, then
>allowed to develop for another 1500 years (including a dark age lasting
>several generations), anyone using 20th Century Icelandic to represent
>Classic Era Swordic is propably at least as far off the mark as anyone
>using anglo-saxon to represent 20th Century English (After all, English
>can be described as 'a variant of Anglo-Saxon borrowing heavily from French
>and Danish').
When I studied archaeology at university, one of the 'additional' units I
chose (ie a unit taught by a different department, to 'round us out') was
Anglo-Saxon & Celtic Studies, which involved translating Anglo-Saxon. There
was a German exchange student in our flat, and he was fascinated by the fact
that both he and I each felt we could understand about half of the passage
I'd read out. It's just that I understood the more 'English' bits and he
understood the more 'German' bits...
Matt
Matthew Bond
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"
- --------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 13:25:50 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Languages IYTU
Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Well, if you had a Swordic[*] textbook from the Classic Era, you could
>do that, but we know, or can at least reasonably guess, when it split
>off. The Sword Worlder ancestors left Earth in -420. Presumably that's
>when it started to diverge.
IMO, it wouldn't start diverging when they *left* - it would start
diverging some time later, when most of those leaving had *arrived*.
Reason: most of the colonists travelled in low berths, and stayed
sleeping for a journey that might have, in -420, taken a number
of years. Since they make up the majority of the new population,
their language will be the mainstream - and their linguistic drift
won't start until they're awake.
A more extreme version would have been the ESA Long Range Colonization
Project that settled the Islands cluster. They had people waking up
all during the centuries-long voyage that had last gone to sleep
on Earth, and people who would sleep since Earth, wake for a few
years, then sleep 'till they got to the Islands. IMO, the inhabitants
of the Islands will have languages and cultures more like Earth of the
pre-Interstellar era than any other place in known space.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 14:02:45 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1869
In a message dated 00-02-05 14:38:40 EST, you write:
<< "We anticipate that most of the articles will be used by GURPS Traveller
players, so game-related stats should be in GURPS terms in addition to
those for any other system."
It looks like they are supporting all settings, but mainly the GUIRPS rule
system. If I design a vehicle for T4, for example, they want me to convert
it to GT as well. >>
I'm only trying to be realistic here . . . I won't bounce an otherwise
acceptable article simply because it doesn't have GURPS Traveller stats.
<< I queried this on the JTAS board yesterday (no response yet). My suggestion
was to recommend that all articles caryy game stats in as many systems as
possible. >>
A good idea.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 100 11:58:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Vassilakos
Subject: Galactic (was pretty colors)
> Are Jim and Stuart on the TML? If they aren't we need to forward
> this to them. If they are how about it guys?
I'll look into it for the next version of Galactic. Dunno yet
how hard it will be to accomplish, but I'm sure it's possible.
Lately, I've had my plate full w/ the rpg magazine index
program. This should also help sector authors, as it will
help us locate past published material. Just got Imperium
Staple and Working Passage entered. Don't suppose anybody
has a semi-complete run of Between Worlds, Third Imperium,
Starburst, or Kfan Uzargou which they'd be willing to
photocopy for a good cause. I'd be more than wiling to pay
for the copies & postage.
- -Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 07:04:30 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: MT rules set
Sorry guys, but I'm still being bounced and I'm keen on a copy of the MT
rules so I'm posting this to the main list.
Jim
>Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:
>>
>> I tried it too but evidently I'm on his anti-spam list for some
reason.
>> Jim
>
>Actually, it's nothing personal. My employer gets too much spam from
>'com.au', so we bounce mail coming from that domain. If you certify that
>you have the rules, I'll add you to the list if there's room.
>--
>Erwin Fritz
>Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
>http://www.glja.com
Thank you, I certify that I have a copy of The MegaTraveller Players
Handbook, The MegaTraveller Referee's Guide and The MegaTraveller Imperial
Encyclopedia.
I undertake to make no copies or forward any information information I
receive from you without express permission from both you and Marc Miller.
(In other words, never.)
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 15:24:32 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: New UPP idea!
Hmmm 4A999A
At 12:06 AM 2/6/00 -0800, you wrote:
>I recently realized the problem with posts on the TML. It's a really
bad
>form of *communication* Experts tell us that most, probably
something like
>90% of communication in nonverbal, but on the TML all of the
nonverbal part
>goes away. You don't know the right context for someone's post, so
it's not
>as useful as it could be. To correct this, I came up with the
following UPP
>(Universal Poster Profile) consisting of the traditional 6 stats in
the 2d6
>range.
>
>Seriousness
>2 - Come on, we're talking about a fantasy game here. How serious
can that
>be?
>12 - The Traveller universe is real and Marc Miller just channels it
to our
>universe. Canon really is truth.
>
>Thick-skinnedness
>2 - I never leave lurker status because of the potential flames I
might
>attract from some of the more outspoken list members.
>12 - This is nothing. Try an IETF working group some time. You guys
are a
>bunch of wusses.
>
>Political Orientation
>2 - The money-grubbing Capitalist bosses only make their miserable
>livelihoods by exploiting the working class.
>12 - Democrats, and anybody to the left of them, are a bunch of
whiners who
>have never tried to run a business.
>
>Anthropological Orientation
>2 - World peace is possible, if we could only get the warmongers to
sit down
>and shut up.
>12 - It's survival of the fittest, and people naturally compete.
Warfare is
>just another way in which we express this.
>
>Technical Accuracy
>2 - It's the qualitative that matters rather than the quantitative.
By
>worrying about too much detail you are missing the big picture.
>12 - I can give a reference in the literature for anything I state
as a fact
>on the TML.
>
>Gearheaddedness
>2 - It's the impact of technology on people which makes Traveller
>interesting, not the technology itself. Who cares how it works?
>12 - Traveller is hard science-fiction. If you can't back up a
design with
>physics and calculations then it doesn't belong in Traveller. Leave
that
>stuff in Dungeons and Dragons.
>
>So if everyone adds this UPP to their signature file, you will
immediately
>have the needed context. He's a 7C67CA? Flame him, he won't care.
He's a
>846887? His post had some good ideas, but had some flaws in logic?
If you
>nit-pick too harshly, you are going to lose any chance of hearing
more of
>his good ideas.
>
>In any event, it gives one more UPP to rate yourself, friends, etc,
with.
>With some further refinement it might even become useful.
>
>
>
>
- -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft
product.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 13:22:01 -0800
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
Subject: Re: Megatraveller rules
Via electronic medium on 2/5/00 6:11 PM, mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk wrote:
> I affirm that I own all the MT rules.
Uh, we only had to have owned them once, right? Mine are gone with all my
comics, Dr. Seuss books, most of my action figures and other misc. storage
items. Major barn fire. :( And I am not sure I had the "rule book" just a
few modules and such. Got 'em in a box at a garage sale and used the stuff
in a Star Wars campaign until I moved. Then they went in storage and that
was the last I saw of them, when I moved back, they were deep in the back
with many boxes in the way. Then the fire wiped it all out. Grrr.
Guess I'm disqualified.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 17:06:16 -0500
From: "Michael Peters"
Subject: JTAS POSTING was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1869
Humm, this might be better directed at Dom or somebody else form BITS,
but... What is the status of using the BITS conversion system for a JTAS
article? That system covers quite a lot, and it would be a shame to go all
the way through that again, only to end up with something so similar that it
creates a copyright problem.
Loren are you adverse to using the BITS stuff with a copyright message
acknowledging BITS? Provided BITS is agreeable of course?
Mike
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1869
> In a message dated 00-02-05 14:38:40 EST, you write:
>
> << "We anticipate that most of the articles will be used by GURPS
Traveller
> players, so game-related stats should be in GURPS terms in addition to
> those for any other system."
>
> It looks like they are supporting all settings, but mainly the GUIRPS
rule
> system. If I design a vehicle for T4, for example, they want me to
convert
> it to GT as well. >>
>
> I'm only trying to be realistic here . . . I won't bounce an otherwise
> acceptable article simply because it doesn't have GURPS Traveller stats.
>
> << I queried this on the JTAS board yesterday (no response yet). My
suggestion
> was to recommend that all articles caryy game stats in as many systems as
> possible. >>
>
> A good idea.
>
> LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 22:17:56 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: THE SLR & GPMG...
On Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:13:57 EST, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 2/6/00 12:27:07 AM !!!First Boot!!!, j_pete@bellsouth.net
>writes:
>
><< The American M-60 (unreliable Rambo special) has
> finally been given the boot and replaced by the M240. The M240 is a
> copy of the (you guessed it) FN MAG. The US has actually been using
> M240's for years as coaxial weapons.
> >>
>
>I thought we used both as 7.62 chews through underbrush better than 5.56? I
>also thought they fixed up the problems like they did with the M16?
>
>Seth
The M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) chambered in 5.56 is still being
used.
The M-60 GPMG chambered in 7.62 is being replaced by the M240G (also
chambered in 7.62). They tried to fix the problems with the M-60 but
never entirely succeeded.
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the
lash." - Winston Churchill
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 13:58:23
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
At 09:35 AM 2/6/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Next time some schmuck calls ME stupid, I'm going to remember this..:)
I collect these things.. human stupidity never ceases to amaze me.
Another favorite: Duriong the Gulf War, two MPs were chatting with an Iraqi
EPW in one of the camps. The Iraqi was showing pictures of his children to
the guards, and one of the guards wanted to show of his own collection of
baby pictures, so he hands his rifle to the *prisoner* so he can dig out
his wallet.
A fully-loaded M-16A2, which was now in the hands of a technical hostile.
Luckily the other MP had more brains and immediately covered the prisoner
with his weapon, ordering him down.
Colonel Hogan would be proud.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:02:17
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Posting articles
At 10:52 AM 2/6/2000 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 2/5/00 11:38:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
>
>
>> 1) I wouldn't usually post a prospective article/topic to a mailing
>> list such as the TML or an open forum such as JTAS' boards.
>
>Back in the good old days this used to happen though. Those that had access
>to GEnie used to post stuff there, those that didn't snail mailed stuff out
>for comment.
I will on occassion post stuff to the TML that I could sell. This usually
happens when it just comes to me as I'm writing. The 76 Patrons-style bit I
did a few weeks back was one of those. It just developed for me. since it
was already going to the TML anyway, ya' get it for free.
>
>> 2) I'd hesitate to post it to somewhere like the Traveller's Writer's
>> Guild without disclaimers.
>
>The TWG list is/was a way to provide a more useful forum for feedback that
>resembled those good old days.
Coud somebody send me the sub address for that? I've lost it, again.
>
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 16:42:55 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
On 02/06/00 at 05:19 AM, "Chris Seamans" said:
>> Considering the one single thing that really separates us hairless
>> apes from the hairy apes is our extensive use of technology, it's a
>> pretty weird perspective.
>The fact that technology breaks the bonds of tradition isn't a
>perspective. It's the truth. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing
>is another matter.
>The notion that technology is dehumanizing may be a "weird perspective",
>but it may also be true. It's also one that appears time and time again.
>I'm not going to weigh in on one side or the other but to simply say that
>your above statement seems like an odd perspective to me. If I understand
>you right, you're saying that man is his technology. I would tend to
>think that the ability to reason, and to think things through is what
>separates man from the "hairy apes".
I'm only going to get involved in this long enough to suggest anyone
interested in technology, culture and civilization read the works of
Lewis Mumford. Be sure to read *both* _Techics and Civilization_
and _The Myth of the Machine_, and I'd suggest in that order.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 14:44:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
In mail you write:
> Printing hardly killed the scribe...the scribe was more than happy
> enough to put down the pen and take up the type box, believe me.
But it did make beautiful calligraphy and illumination less common (and
at least for a while, less appreciated).
But I'll agree that it wasn't because printing was *better*. It's just
that it was *cheaper* and *faster*. Knowing some scribes in the SCA, I
can assure folks that while their output is *beautiful*, it takes
*huge* amounts of time, and frankly, most don't have (or want to take)
the amount of time to get their skills as good as an old time scribe,
even though it'd make the product *really* amazing.
Most people want "readable text now" not "a work of art" next month.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 14:55:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
In mail you write:
>> Printing hardly killed the scribe...the scribe was more than happy
>> enough to put down the pen and take up the type box, believe me.
>
> Well, I guess I don't believe you.
>
> During the tumult of the Reformation, those folks who who had previously
> scribed (if their monasteries were too far from Rome) were, in fact, being
> burned, stabbed and otherwise being mutilated and slaughtered by
> Protestants. One might argue that it was some sort of religious madness
> which caused all of the insanity. I might be inclined to agree. It was all
> made possible by the introduction of the printing press.
But printing *per se* didn't kill them. Religious differences did. Half
a millenium earlierf monks were being killed *just* as enthusiastically
by Vikings.
You, sir, are playing word games.
> Possibly, but I'm always leery of people who cite "emotional needs" as the
> basis for a position. It always looks to me like a cop out.
>
> "Well, we can't figure out, scientifically, why people believe in deities.
> It must be an emotional need."
It's not even that. One thing the Soviet system *did* manage to do was
give us a significant sample of folks living quite happily *without* a
belief in dieties or an afterlife.
So it doesn't appear to be as much of a "need" as many have argued.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 14:38:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
In mail, traveller@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> At 10:15 AM 2/5/2000 PST, you wrote:
>
>>You think technology *isn't* pervasive *now*?
>>
>>Remember, TL 0 is you, sitting out in the weather, naked, looking for
>>some sticks and rocks...
>
> Even chimps are smart enough to get out of the rain, Leonard.
Sure, andthey even build "nests" but it's a long ways from that to
building huts.
> TL 0 include crude huts, and what we are learning about our Neolithic
> ancestors is changing our perception of the "cavemen" and the world the
> lived in. A great of the new information comes from the Iceman find.
Well, I tend to consider *Paleo*lithic as the *real* "TL 0" :-)
Seriously, Paleolithic is a TL all by itself, with Neolithic being
another. Maybe TL 0.0 and TL 0.5. There's at least as much difference
betwen them as at any of the other TL changes, and arguably a *lot*
more than between some.
> I've had the opporunity to make and use stone tools. One thing people don't
> appreciate about these stone tools is that they were all custom built. So
> your obsidian knife is perfect for your hand. Yes, you break more spear
> points, but its not like your suffer from a lack of resources.
Tools were pretty much "custom built" clear up to the Renaisance...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1874
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To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Sunday, February 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1875
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: JTAS POSTING was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1869
Re: Posting articles
Margaret III, Empress of the Third Imperium Grand Princess Patricia, heir to the Third Imperium
MT Combat Example - Trav Q&A from Digest 12
OT Religion and Communism (was re: Computers and Technology IYTU)
Dimensions of starship missiles?
Re: Dimensions of starship missiles?
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1874
Re: JTAS Online
Next Traveller Board Gaming Meet In San Jose - February 26
RE MP's
Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
Full Thrust & WinterCon 27
Urban Legends
Re: Symbols for Medical Facility
Re: Choice of Law
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1874
Re: Language bits
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Political upheaval and religion IYTU
Re: THE SLR & GPMG...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:19:51 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: JTAS POSTING was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1869
At 18:06 -0500 6/2/00, "Michael Peters" wrote:
>Humm, this might be better directed at Dom or somebody else form BITS,
>but... What is the status of using the BITS conversion system for a JTAS
>article? That system covers quite a lot, and it would be a shame to go all
>the way through that again, only to end up with something so similar that it
>creates a copyright problem.
I don't think it will be a problem as we put it up for people to use;
however, I will seek the BITS Director's confirmation of this
tomorrow (it's 2320 hrs UK now).
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:28:45 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Posting articles
In mail Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
> > 2) I'd hesitate to post it to somewhere like the Traveller's Writer's
> > Guild without disclaimers.
>
>The TWG list is/was a way to provide a more useful forum for feedback that
>resembled those good old days.
Agreed, but after the IG fiasco and non-payment (effective theft of
copyright which was non-viable to pursue from the UK) caution is a
watchword. TWG is a good list, when it is active. Especially for
bouncing ideas around. Very little noise.
> > 3) If I did post it it would have very clear copyright statements at
> > both the top and bottom of the email.
>
>Maybe that says something about the current state of affairs? If so that's
>too bad.
Agreed. IG burnt fingers. My comments aren't a criticism of HIWG US'
efforts in maintaining the TWG list. HIWG TWG list is a great
resource, and probably under-used because of the bad taste that IG
left. And pretty quiet (but that may change with a T5 launch).
Dom
BITS Webmaster
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:29:37 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Margaret III, Empress of the Third Imperium Grand Princess Patricia, heir to the Third Imperium
>>>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:52:40 -0500
From: "Alvin"
Subject: Imperial Varient: Margaret III: Rise to the Throne
Margaret III, Empress of the Third Imperium
Grand Princess Patricia, heir to the Third Imperium
<<<
Great work Alvin. Swordy, give this man his own page on Downport!
Darryl
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:36:40 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: MT Combat Example - Trav Q&A from Digest 12
Dear Folks -
I have now scanned, cleaned up and uploaded Digest 12's "Traveller Q&A" to my
site (==> Tavonni Repair Bays ==> scroll to the bottom). This contains Joe D.
Fugate's MT combat example. It's rather long (with diagrams) so I won't post it
here unless there is a clamour of interest.
Interestingly, even though it is official errata, the errata has errata
(surprise!). When talking about an untrained PC using a FGMP-15, Joe says:
"With the advent of the included skills (handgun, rifleman, and so on), player
characters in MegaTraveller no longer have an automatic skill level-0 in all
weapons."
You may like to know, that it says in black-and-white under "Default Skills" on
p13 of the _Players' Manual: "All Characters Except Barbarians: Gun Combat-0."
Remember that the Gun Combat cascade includes Energy Weapons, which includes
Fusion Guns...
(OK, OK, so Barbarians know nothing and he says "weapons" not "guns", so Joe is
_technically_ correct, but in the _context_...!!! ;-)
/IMNSHO on/
[I _still_ think that a properly errata'd MT is the best Trav system, so there!]
/IMNSHO off/
;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 18:53:13 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: OT Religion and Communism (was re: Computers and Technology IYTU)
Leonard Erickson wrote:
>It's not even that. One thing the Soviet system *did* manage to do was
>give us a significant sample of folks living quite happily *without* a
>belief in dieties or an afterlife.
>
I've read and somewhat agree with the argument that this aspect of the
Soviet system replaced religious dogma with political dogma, for similar
purpose and to similar effect. I've heard it identified as a religion
without a god (unless the diefication of the leader of the moment
counted), carefully disguised so as to trap those who emotionally needed
a religious system but had intellectually rebelled against the idea.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 17:02:50 -0800
From: Kristian Miller
Subject: Dimensions of starship missiles?
This might be a repost but I seem to be having trouble getting through:
Doe anyone recall or know of a source for the dimensions of starship
missiles? Especially the Third Imperium standards.
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:07:24 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: Dimensions of starship missiles?
At 05:02 PM 2/6/00 -0800, you wrote:
>This might be a repost but I seem to be having trouble getting through:
>
>Doe anyone recall or know of a source for the dimensions of starship
>missiles? Especially the Third Imperium standards.
>
>Kristian
>
Book2 says that they are 50kgs. I presume they mean "displacement
kilos", allowing 20 per ton. I worked out the dimensions for that some time
ago; check the list archives.
SS3: Missles confirms the 50kg size, but not if it is mass or
displacement. They also say that anything bigger than 50kgs cannot be fired
out of a rack and requires a bay.
--Michel
(SS3 Junkie)
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
"Reality Error in Progress....
....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Cyberpunk: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020
Traveller: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller
AD&D: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 17:22:03 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1874
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> Another favorite: Duriong the Gulf War, two MPs were chatting with an Iraqi
> EPW in one of the camps. The Iraqi was showing pictures of his children to
> the guards, and one of the guards wanted to show of his own collection of
> baby pictures, so he hands his rifle to the *prisoner* so he can dig out
> his wallet.
>
> A fully-loaded M-16A2, which was now in the hands of a technical hostile.
> Luckily the other MP had more brains and immediately covered the prisoner
> with his weapon, ordering him down.
What a fabulous story. I kinda think this almost says more about
humanity than about stupidity (though the two are certainly closely
related).
ObTrav:
Back in the days when personal honor was relevant, wasn't it standard
that a prisoner of war would swear on his honor not to make trouble
for his captors?
In a mercenary-fought action, it might be perfectly reasonable to
trust a captured opponent with your rifle - you and he might be
hired by the same side next month!
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 20:26:32 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
>> Well, from this grognard's perspective, it looks like a way to soak me
for
>> more money.
>
>I have to agree. If I could switch my Pyramid subscription to a JTAS
>subscription, I would. But $30 a year for both seems a little steep to me
>(especially considering I am also buying SJG products at up to $20 or more
a
>pop).
>
>Ciao,
I find it a bargain. I would a pay at least that much for a monthly
magazine. And what William says notwithstanding, I find the electronic
nature of the medium very useful. I make a copy of the material (for my own
use) and ignore what I don't need. I buy all kinds of computer and camping
and other magazines and simply don't have the room to save all the articles
that I might find of use in the future. With Pyramid I can easily sort the
articles to useful sub-directories and even search for specific subjects.
Much easier than a paper magazine.
To quote Dr. Egon Spengler "Print is dead."
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 18:07:36 -0800
From: Kristian Miller
Subject: Next Traveller Board Gaming Meet In San Jose - February 26
Hi All,
The next Traveller Board Gaming Meet in San Jose will be February 26 at
11:00.
Featured will be the game "Brilliant Lances" using miniatures. We will
have a bigger scenario than last month so anyone is welcome to bring
miniatures (I think Glenn is bringing his rather cool collection).
The location is near the intersection of I-680 and Highway-101. For
directions email me.
Kristian Miller
travellerne@3rd-imperium.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:14:50 -0500
From: "Jeff &Michelle Norton"
Subject: RE MP's
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF70E7.347B10E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 00:53:52 -0600
>From: Alex Ingram
>Subject: Military Police
>Keep in mind that the role of the military police is to support combat
>operations by providing not only basic law enforcement but also control
>military traffic movement, ensure rear area security and to =
control/secure
>enemy prisoners.
=20
Alex,
=20
Either you layed your hands on FM19-4 *OR* spent a great deal of time at =
Ft McMuffin.
After 12 years of that, I 'progressed' into the mainstream and into =
computers.
Long, cold nights on TCP's, in guard towers, convoy escorts, MOUT =
training, and the endless streams of DA 3975's and DA 3946's. *sigh*
=20
Nice to know that a fellow 'pistol-crosser' is active on the list....
=20
- -Jeff
- ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF70E7.347B10E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
>Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 00:53:52 =
- -0600
>From:=20Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
>Subj=ect:=20Military Police
>Keep in mind that the role of the military =police is=20to support combat
>operations by providing not only basic law =enforcement=20but also control
>military traffic movement, ensure rear area =security and=20to control/secure
>enemy =prisoners.
Alex,
Either you layed your hands on FM19-4 *OR* spent =a great=20deal of time at Ft McMuffin.
After 12 years of that, I 'progressed' into the =mainstream=20and into computers.
Long, cold nights on TCP's, in guard towers, =convoy=20escorts, MOUT training, and the endless streams of DA 3975's and DA =3946's.=20*sigh*
Nice to know that a fellow 'pistol-crosser' is =active on=20the list....
-Jeff
- ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF70E7.347B10E0--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 17:51:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: JTAS announcement from Steve Jackson
In mail you write:
> At 10:40 AM 2/5/00 PST, you wrote:
> [snip]
>
>>Sorry, but that's *never* been the law. It's a popular copyright myth.
>>
>>The reason it's not any sort of "proof" of anything? Because you can
>>mail yourself an *empty* unsealed (or just barely sealed) envelope and
>>then later stick anything you damn well please into it, seal it and
>>then claim the postmark "proves" you had the idea first.
>>
>>--
>>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>
> In Canada, it *is* valid, so long as it is sent registered mail.
> Mostly because a Canada Post registered mail envelope is in one of three
> states: unused, unmistakably sealed shut or torn in three pieces (I'd love
> to know what they use for that glue...).
You'd be surprised. I've seen a demo of how to extract a letter from a
"sealed" envelope and then replace it. It requires that the gap at the
"corners" of the envelope be large enough to pass the *lead* from a #2
pencil. Though that's not what you insert...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:18:41 -0600
From: "Pat Connaughton"
Subject: Full Thrust & WinterCon 27
Greetings,
First,
I just came back from a very pleasant weekend at
the convention led by Don Mckinney. WinterCon.
I had a great time. I had the opportunity to meet
Shadowcat FTF, as well as several others. I also,
enjoyed exchanging artillery fire at a napoleonics
game with Frank Chadwick.
I strongly recommend attending next year if you get the
chance. I'll be putting on a couple of traveller events
next year.
Second, I had the chance to play the ruleset called
Full Thrust. These have been mentioned several times
on this list. I wonder if any enterprising soul has developed
a conversion for Traveller of these rules?
Please advise by seperate e-mail.
Thanks
Pat Connaughton
ICQ # 2535086
pconn@i1.net
"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not
how to reign"
Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 22:18:40 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Urban Legends
Regards the thread about the dummy who tried to rob an ATM machine with a
gun there is a story told in North Carolina about a man, a pistol, and a
coke machine. The vending machine took his money and didn't give him his
coke. So he emptied a pistol into it. Didn't get him his money back but
reportedly the machine bled coke and he felt much better...
That said I've a Traveller story to share. Man walks into a little Star
Port curio shop just off the main drag at one of seedier down ports on the
Spinward Main. Looks around and spots a small brass statue of an Vargr.
Picks up the statue, admires the detail and decides to buy it. Walks over
to the counter and asks the wizened little old Droyne shop keeper how much.
The ancient Droyne looks at him and chirps "Buy it you want? Pay 15 credits
you will. Pay 1000 credits you must if its story you wish." Man says
"Here's your 15 credits, you can keep the story old sport," and walks out of
the shop. Man walks down the street deciding to sight see down by the
ocean. As he walks along the man passes a Vargr coming out of a door way.
The Vargr looks at the man, turns and follows him. Soon that Vargr is
joined by a second and then quickly by a third, a fourth and a fifth.
Before long the man is running and a whole horde of Vargr are chasing after
him. The man reachs an ocean over look and is trapped at the top of a cliff
with the surf pounding away at its base. As the Vargr close in he takes the
statue and flings it out into the sea. The Vargr all rush past him and leap
off the cliff into the sea.
Later the man goes back to the little shop and as he steps up to the counter
the old Droyne chirps "Return you have. Must still pay 1000 Credits for the
story to tell." The man says "Thanks, don't want the story. I just need to
know if you happen to have any brass statues of female Aslans dressed in
comfortable shoes?"
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:50:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Symbols for Medical Facility
In mail you write:
> In a message dated 2/5/00 9:23:59 AM Central Standard Time,
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> << Take the upper ("straight") "spike" from the Kligon symbol. Make two
> more. Use them to replace the "curved" spikes on the symbol. That'd be
> close. Except the klingon "spike" is too wide. It'd need to be longer
> or narrower. With a more pronounced inward curve on thhe two sides. >>
>
> So the spikes sort of look like very sharp golf tees?
Yes! I kept thinking that there was *some* "everyday object" that had
the "right" shape, but I couldn't think of it.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:30:30 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Choice of Law
In a message dated 00-02-05 17:36:11 EST, you write:
<< From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Choice of Law
><< Since SJG has choice of law limited to their home state, US law applies.
> >> >>
For those of you who think this is new:
A friend of mine who collects ancient documents showed me a translation of a
papyrus fragment from a 3rd century AD contract. It says that so and so, a
Greek from Alexandria signed an agreement with so-and-so, a Syrian from
Damaascus, who was to be considered a Persian for the purposes of the
contract.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:30:34 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1874
In a message dated 00-02-06 18:08:26 EST, you write:
<< Loren are you adverse to using the BITS stuff with a copyright message
acknowledging BITS? Provided BITS is agreeable of course?
>>
Steve is the final arbiter at my end, however, I don't think this will cause
too big a problem if BITS agrees.
Is the BITS conversion on-line someplace? We could provide a link to the page
. . .
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:30:33 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Language bits
Matt writes:
<< When I studied archaeology at university, one of the 'additional' units I
chose (ie a unit taught by a different department, to 'round us out') was
Anglo-Saxon & Celtic Studies, which involved translating Anglo-Saxon. There
was a German exchange student in our flat, and he was fascinated by the fact
that both he and I each felt we could understand about half of the passage
I'd read out. It's just that I understood the more 'English' bits and he
understood the more 'German' bits... >>
I had that same eerie sensation waiting in a checkout line many years ago.
The world women's softball championships were in town, and bars, grocery
stores and shops all over town were filled with young women in sports
outfits. I was standing in line behind two young women engaged in an agitated
conversion which I could barely understand. Then I realized it wasn't because
of their accents -- they were speaking Dutch, and I was getting about half
their conversation based on knowing a lot of English and a little German.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:30:28 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
In a message dated 00-02-04 23:46:35 EST, you write:
<< Kagehira@aol.com
> Well, I had that happen to me with some B5W stuff: asked someone to
forward
> it to AoG for me (cause my ISP claimed that their ISP didn't exist) and it
> showed up in a book with credit to the forwarder.
>
> I'm not terribly worried about SJG, but if they get bought up then the
> buyer might not hold to any gentleman's agreements. Which is why the
> copyright in the sig is a good idea.
It also happened to GDW and/or DGP at least once>>
More than once. GDW was accused of stealing the Ancients from Fred Pohl and
of stealing the Aslan from CJ Cherryh, among other things. Used to happen
every few months, back in the bad old days.
Did I ever tell you we heard from Fred Pohl's agent once? Someone was sending
him letters about how we were stealing things left and right. We sent copies
of everything relevant, and a couple of weeks later got a phone call. Seems
when Fred finally stopped laughing, he said told his agent to ignore thee
whole thing.
<< (where someone accused Loren of plagiarizing their material). >>
Yeah, years ago. I was accused of ripping off something on a web page on the
basis of the following facts:
1) a URL was given on the TML
2) Some of the names were the same.
I had never read the document I had supposedly taken the idea from. My
accuser had never read the document that supposedly incorporated "his" ideas.
Tempest in a teapot.
******************
Remind me to tell you of the phone calls I used to get from the FBI
Behavioral Science Unit way back when. Used to bug our receptionist no end --
evidently she believed I was some kind of threat to national security or
something : )
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:43:24 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
From: Leonard Erickson
> But printing *per se* didn't kill them. Religious differences did. Half
> a millenium earlierf monks were being killed *just* as
> enthusiastically by Vikings.
C'mon, Leonard. Both you know and I know that the reasoning was wholly
different. (Pun intended... Whoops... there go those word games) We both
know that monasteries held lots of portable wealth and that they were
relatively undefended, which made them prime targets for a raiding culture.
Presumably, we also both know the wars which characterized the Reformation
were quite different. They were wars marked by battles in which raiding for
profit wasn't always the objective. They were civil wars, of a religious
sort, which were brought on by the disintegration of the previous culture.
There is little doubt, for me, anyway, that this could not have happened
without the appearance of the printing press, and the ease which the Western
/ Roman alphabet, a previous technological development, could be adapted to
the new technology.
> You, sir, are playing word games.
To some extent perhaps, although I did nothing which would put anyone
responding at a disadvantage. In the literal sense, the scribes were killed
(along with lots of other people). In the figurative sense, the scribal
culture, the cornerstone of the Catholic Church, was destroyed.
So, yes, my original comment could be read in two ways, and yes, this was
intended. The revenant of the scribal culture, the Catholic Church, managed
to pull through, but they were severely weakened. For what it's worth, even
the scribes who survived never actually utilized the printing press in
anything resembling a significant way. The Catholic Church's
Counter-Reformation was marked by a shift toward ceremony and glamor. This
pulled them through the Reformation, but made their position during the
Enlightenment rather precarious.
So, while I may have used a phrase which could be read in two different
ways. Both the scribe and the scribal culture were eliminated by the
printing press.
> > "Well, we can't figure out, scientifically, why people believe in
> > deities. It must be an emotional need."
>
> It's not even that. One thing the Soviet system *did* manage to do
> was give us a significant sample of folks living quite happily
> *without* a belief in dieties or an afterlife.
I might agree, but only to some extent. The Russian-Orthodox Church was
still around, Icons were still used and crafted and ceremonies were still
conducted.
I'd also like to point out the fact that displayed relics, the preserved
bodies of saints, were at the center of Russian-Orthodox religion. I hardly
need to point out that Stalin ordered Lenin's body to be preserved and put
on display. I may need to point out that Stalin had trained for the
Russian-Orthodox priesthood in his youth.
And, while the Communist ideology may not have outwardly believed in life
after death, they believed in Communism after death; Lenin retained his
membership in the party in death.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 22:43:35 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Political upheaval and religion IYTU
> > During the tumult of the Reformation, those folks who who had previously
> > scribed (if their monasteries were too far from Rome) were, in fact, being
> > burned, stabbed and otherwise being mutilated and slaughtered by
> > Protestants. One might argue that it was some sort of religious madness
> > which caused all of the insanity. I might be inclined to agree. It was all
> > made possible by the introduction of the printing press.
>
> But printing *per se* didn't kill them. Religious differences did. Half
> a millenium earlier monks were being killed *just* as enthusiastically
> by Vikings.
Of course, Vikings didn't give a flip which gods those wimpy,
Latinized feebs worshipped. They just wanted their wealth.
And even with the tumult of Reformation (as opposed to the tumult of
the Inquisition, the Crusades, the Jihad, the sack of Rome, the
persecution
by Nero et al, Masada, the sack of Carthage, the sack of the Known World
by Alexander...), the major component of Protestantism was politics and
land, not religion. But then religion is always a convenient excuse
for the power hungry to kill opponents. One reason the Imperial
powers that be might want a liturgical religion handy. And under their
thumb.
> It's not even that. One thing the Soviet system *did* manage to do was
> give us a significant sample of folks living quite happily *without* a
> belief in dieties or an afterlife.
I don't suppose we know if they were happy because God was declared
dead by a despotism, or because communism gave them such a bright
future.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:53:21 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: THE SLR & GPMG...
In a message dated 2/6/00 10:18:33 PM !!!First Boot!!!, j_pete@bellsouth.net
writes:
<< The M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) chambered in 5.56 is still being
used.
The M-60 GPMG chambered in 7.62 is being replaced by the M240G (also
chambered in 7.62). They tried to fix the problems with the M-60 but
never entirely succeeded. >>
Ah; thanks...
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1875
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Traveller-digest Monday, February 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1876
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
CharGen & World Generation Rules
Ground Forces Sidebars (was: Honey, I'm home!!!!)
Re: GT: Metator User Interface
Full Thrust
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: RE MP's
To who may concern...... BTW this is WAY OT
Re: To who may concern...... BTW this is WAY OT
Re: Greetings, robots, and other stuff...
Re: New UPP idea!
Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
old SF for ideas
Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 23:13:29 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: CharGen & World Generation Rules
Howdy folks,
Today, I sat down with my wife and she rolled up three
characters using the MegaTraveller character generation
system. She really liked it a lot.
Now, that's a compliment, because she doesn't care about
Traveller. She's a neutral agent, or perhaps slightly
negatively influenced by the amount of time I spend on
it. :)
Okay, so I had a thought. Perhaps we could use an
extended world generation system akin to the MT chargen
system.
First, you roll up the physical stats of the world (and
the system if you like). World size, atmosphere,
hydrosphere. Or you pick a world you know and love.
Then, you randomly roll a colonization group and the time
frame they're colonizing in (what Milieu?). You select
what their development goals are, and use the proper tables
to determine what happens.
The population is affected by the world physical stats,
and events affect the world in general (natural or wartime
cataclysms, additional colony groups, technological
breakthroughs, trade). The starport is built, upgraded,
downgraded, or destroyed. The planet joins (or leaves)
the Imperium ... or the Imperium collapses, if you choose
one of the Bad Milieux.
Since world "generation" is a slow process, a small measure
of terraforming may be feasible... or probably not. At
any rate, by the time you reach the stats of the world for
a milieu you recognize, the world generation is done.
Thus, when you're done, you know the world's history.
And that understanding adds depth when your players land
on it and start to look around.
Well what do you think? I got the idea from T4's
_Pocket Empires_, but I prefer a process more akin to
MT's chargen system.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:48:11 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Ground Forces Sidebars (was: Honey, I'm home!!!!)
Dear Doug -
a. How about a narrative description, a la the ones in Star Mercs, of a prisoner
interrogation, where the prisoner is a Zho noble?
b. A news story about the signing of the 5FW armistice, with scene description,
etc.
c. What is the Imperium able to requisition in the event of a war? Loacl troops,
starports, local shipping? Perhaps a set of guidelines/rules of engagement?
d. The pipes! The pipes! A narrative description of the Marines deliberately
stirring up the Navy-boys while doing Ship Troop duty.
e. A narrative description of what battledress is like to use ("...one time in
combat, I smashed _through_ a wall to get to the enemy. You should have seen the
surprise on their faces..." etc).
f. How are Imperial aliens treated in the military? You could include bits about
the Aslan Imperial Guard and so on (alien equipment requirements), and even
those guys who have an innate combat drug (the ones written up as a human minor
race, somewhere near Vland?? Aargh, can't remember their name!)
g. The Imperial view of mercs (to tie Star Mercs in, somehow). We know the mercs
think of the Impies as "the cops"; do the Impies think of mercs as "the
punks"???
I'll have to go think before I can come up with more.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 00:40:47 -0500
From: Glenn Grant
Subject: Re: GT: Metator User Interface
Robert Prior sez,
>Now that the GT: Starships upgrade to GT: Shipyard [1] is complete (aside
>from incorporating playtest changes), my programming project this spring is
>finally implementing GT: Metator [2].
Huzzah!
But Rob: will it only do GT stats, or will it also do CT/MT stats?
Pleeease tell me it will do both. (I may illustrate GT books, but I must
admit I don't use the GURPS system.)
>What do people want to see?
I assume it'll do _First In_ system generation? Of course you'll include
a toggle for metric measures, right?
>How important are the non-mainworlds?
UWPs will do for these, I feel. As in the original Metator, it would be
useful to have the ability to generate detailed profiles of non-mainworlds
only as they're needed.
>Are things like pressure tables useful?
Pressure isn't entirely necessary, because the important info is right
there in the UWP: can I breath it, do I need a mask or a suit? etc.
Temperature tables are useful, though.
>Animal encounter tables?
Personally I've never needed more than two or three animals *per world* in
a game. More than that tends to be overkill -- unless the campaign is
likely to concentrate on one world for many game sessions.
>Economic summaries?
Useful, but not necessary.
>How will they use the program? For generating totally new systems or
>expanding existing ones?
Mostly I'd use it for generating new systems. Only rarely for expanding an
existing world into a full system.
>Which is more important: output to text files, html files, hardcopy, or
>interactive use?
Text, man. Text! *TEXT*! (ahem. Sorry for shouting...) I've been hoping
and waiting -- something like three years now -- for a Metator that will
allow me to save *all* the generated data [not just the system data] to
*text* files. Metator has always held out the *promise* of being the
coolest thing since tinned anaconda slices, but it has always dangled
*just* beyond the point of being really useful to me. Kinda frustrating, eh?
>What else should I be thinking of?
_Far Trader_ data?
BTW, I've always loved your user-definable language generator -- great for
whomping up masses of world names. Actually, I use it to generate
character names, too. A cool and necessary feature, I say.
Good hacking, Rob,
+GMG +
Glenn Grant
neo@total.net
"A scholar is just a library's way of making another library"
--Daniel Dennet
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:13:32 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Full Thrust
>Second, I had the chance to play the ruleset called
>Full Thrust. These have been mentioned several times
>on this list. I wonder if any enterprising soul has developed
>a conversion for Traveller of these rules?
It's a great ruleset. I came in the back way (EFSB, then on to FT), but it
really is sweet. Simple, quick, and playable, and there are near-newtonian
movement rules in FB and EFSB.
AFAIK, not yet, but shall we?
Assumptions:
1) You have access to all three rulebooks or at least FT2 and Fleetbook
2) You want to be able to use the canonical FT FB designs
3) The passenger and cargo rules are from More Thrust
4) This is off the top of my head (with my copy of all three books at hand,
plus Dirtside II)
5) Abbreviations in use are
FT2: Full Thrust, 2nd Ed
MTh: More Thrust (In the FT world, it's just MT, BTW)
FB: Fleet Book
DS2: Dirtside
MT: MegaTraveller
Mass: FT Mass Units
EFSB: The Earthforce Sourcebook for The Babylon Project. The ship
combat rules contained therin are a FT variant, and were written by Jon
Tuffley...
6) Conversion based upon mass.
Well, based upon the fleetbook and it's construction rules, 1 mass = 100
tons mass; This would, assuming the standard Striker/MT/FF&S/FF&S2 2T per
Kl [1], be about 50 KL per Mass, or about 3.5 Td per mass.
Call it 2-4 Td per Mass unit, and things should work just fine. Except
fighters.
Since Jump Drives in FT are a boolean rating: You either have one or you
don't. They take 10% of your mass, and require no fuel... This will never
do for Traveller.
Options here:
- - Just use the Traveller rates (1+Jn)%, plus 10% fuel per each. (Or if you
prefer 5xJdriveVolume, per MT)
- - Or, alternately, assume FT is TL 10, and J1 is all there is, and the fuel
is included in the 10%, and so the drives are a slightly more efficient
J1... 10% vs 12% (all editions).
- - If not using FB, simply adjust cost based upon range. I'd suggest JDrive
cost is 50% Mass per Jn, and assume the rules are written for TL 11-12.
In any case, I'd reccomend using the damaage rules for JDrives from EFSB:
They take two hits to kill. 1st gives a chance of misjump, 2nd knocks them
out.
Dealing with Jump Fuel: Just like cargo! (IE, 25% goes away per line of
damage under fleet book, or 1/Xth where X is number of damage track lines
for FT2/MoreThrust).
Or, if you really want to be obtuse, but more flexible, Divy the fuel into
as many icons as the Jn, and treat them like weapons. I'd use a boxed
capital F for the icon in this case.
Cargos: Generate them ala your fav rules, but call it mass units of cargo,
rather than tons; alternately, call it some fraction of a mass per
generated ton. BTW, a big tanks's Cargo Space is 20CSP per each. 1 Mass is
50 CSP. So,
Fighters: FT Fighters are all under 100 Tons Mass, but Traveller fighters
are all well over 5 Tons Displacement. So, I suggest rounding to the
nearest 1/10th mass (rather than nearest mass) for ships under 10 mass, and
simply calling them carried craft. (Mass taken for carried craft bays is
1.5x mass of the carried craft. This is more severe than Traveller, but
makes sense.)
Passengers: Here we need to teak massively: Troops go 50 per Mass Unit by
MTh. We might assume this to be roughly 1 bunk each. So, we'll go with 10
Staterooms per mass. Makes a mass of SR's roughly 20 Td (assumes small
SR's). Cryosleep is 50 per mass, but cost more. In any case, this will
break any conversions based upon mass to volume.
Crew: Note that FT Crewing for military ships is roughly 1 man per mass (1
20 man crew factor per 20 mass). 1 man per 2.5 mass for merchant craft (1
CF per 50 mass). Can probably do with 1/2 this for crews with no damage
control capability.
[1] This is mass to volume for electronics and, essentially, most
mechanical systems.
Now some caveats and alternate treatments:
Convert 1 Mass to 10 Td: Make SR's 2 for Lg, 5 for small, both per mass.
Reduce troops to 10 per mass of barracks. Fighters now work with the
canonical 10Td fighter from traveller, too! But, it makes the DS2 tie-in
deprecated.
TL's: JDrive range still limited by Traveller TL.
TL 9: Limit thrust to 1, due to lack of gravitics; or alternately,
no damage control if uusing more.
TL's 10+: limit thrust to TL-7, due to the limits of G-Comp. Again,
lose the ability to do damage control, troop loading, etc, if using more.
Weapons Ranges:
TL 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Range Mult x1/3 x2/3 x1 x4/3 x5/3 x2 x7/3
Spinal Weapons: Use the rules for the beam system out of EFSB... FT design
sequence is on a site on the FT Web Ring. Simply drop the limit on max
power per projector, provided projector is Fore Arc only.
Meson Guns: Ignore armor, Screens. Double costs
Meson Screens: Identical to the Screen system, except only affects Meson fire.
Fusion and Plasma Guns: Assume the weapons ARE plasma guns.
Lasers: Treat as Needle Beams, except you can buy more arcs.
Fusion Guns: As per Plasma Guns, except increase cost by 25% use following
damage table:
Die Roll 1-2 3 4 5 6
Damage, 0 Shields 0 1 1 2 2*
1 Shield 0 0 1 1 2*
2 Shield 0 0 0 1 1*
Comments?
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:26:34 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Dear Folks -
Leonard said:
>Most people want "readable text now" not "a work of art" next month.
Ah! A clear example of "disruptive technology" that I talked about late last
month! The calligraphers were in a state of "performance oversupply"! ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 01:10:50 -0600
From: Alex Ingram
Subject: Re: RE MP's
- --------------D0AE1FB6261DC5865732248A
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I was a Behavorial Science NCO for most of my 20 year Army career but I
had several friends who were MPs and I'm a serious wargamer when not
working or playing Traveller.
Alex Ingram
Jeff &Michelle Norton wrote:
> >Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 00:53:52 -0600
> >From: Alex Ingram
> >Subject: Military Police
>
> >Keep in mind that the role of the military police is to support
> combat
> >operations by providing not only basic law enforcement but also
> control
> >military traffic movement, ensure rear area security and to
> control/secure
> >enemy prisoners. Alex, Either you layed your hands on FM19-4 *OR*
> spent a great deal of time at Ft McMuffin.After 12 years of that, I
> 'progressed' into the mainstream and into computers.Long, cold nights
> on TCP's, in guard towers, convoy escorts, MOUT training, and the
> endless streams of DA 3975's and DA 3946's. *sigh* Nice to know that a
> fellow 'pistol-crosser' is active on the list.... -Jeff
- --------------D0AE1FB6261DC5865732248A
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I was a Behavorial Science NCO for most of my 20 year Army career but I
had several friends who were MPs and I'm a serious wargamer when not working
or playing Traveller.
Alex Ingram
Jeff &Michelle Norton wrote:

> >Date: Sun,
> 06 Feb 2000 00:53:52 -0600
> >From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
> >Subject: Military Police
> >Keep in mind that the role of the military policeis to support combat
> >operations by providing not only basic law enforcementbut also control
> >military traffic movement, ensure rear area securityand to control/secure
> >enemy prisoners. Alex, Eitheryou layed your hands on FM19-4 *OR* spent a great deal of time at Ft McMuffin.After12 years of that, I 'progressed' into the mainstream and into computers.Long,cold nights on TCP's, in guard towers, convoy escorts, MOUT training, and the endless streams of DA 3975's and DA 3946's. *sigh* Niceto know that a fellow 'pistol-crosser' is active on the list.... -Jeff

- --------------D0AE1FB6261DC5865732248A--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 23:34:27 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: To who may concern...... BTW this is WAY OT
Well I vented my spleen here last year.....
As of the 9th of February I am a free man. My Bachelorhood reinstated.
OR
The Divorce is final.
The BarbeQue is on.
When BayCon
More details laters.
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 00:03:29 -0800
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan"
Subject: Re: To who may concern...... BTW this is WAY OT
From: Evyn MacDude
>Well I vented my spleen here last year.....
>
>As of the 9th of February I am a free man. My Bachelorhood reinstated.
>
>OR
>
>The Divorce is final.
>
Congratulations, from one who knows how very good it feels! (Separated
4-15-98, went back 4-30-98, then separated again 7-10-98, Divorced
12-31-99!!!)
>The BarbeQue is on.
>
>When BayCon
>
Well I don't know if we can count on seeing Emperor Estigarribia there (LOL,
just for the newbies I'll explain that... my boyfriend's name really IS
Hiroshi!)-- but *I* will be there with bells on, unless something weird
happens and I have to run back to Japan before then.
Kiri =)
whose last name has been Morgan, Payne, Westfall, Sikorski, and Ho, and who
won't let that stop her from changing that to Narita if asked, LOL!
(Admittedly a couple of these were due to parental remarriages rather than
my own. I have only been divorced three times and I intend for it to stay
that way!!!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God...
tiamat@tsoft.com
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is
sacred somewhere. There's a deity out there who digs it. You can respect
and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or
impractical. It's all about giving yourself permission."
-- Jack Darkhand
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 00:06:23 -0800
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan"
Subject: Re: Greetings, robots, and other stuff...
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ludowick@aol.com
>BTW, as a newbie, I have to ask -- What is all this about Aslan females &
comfortable shoes? Is it because they are digitigrade? Aslan males are
too. So are Vargr, IIRC. High-heels all around?
>
Hey Ludowick, izzat your real name?
Reason I ask is-- I *think* my ref in the early 80's was using Ludowick as a
SCA name at one point in time. I usedta play in West Virginia, of all the
places in the world.
I don't know about Aslan or Vargr gals, but I only wear high heels when I'm
not gonna be on my feet very long. LOL...
Kiri =)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God...
tiamat@tsoft.com
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is
sacred somewhere. There's
a deity out there who digs it. You can respect and love your darkest side,
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical. It's all about giving
yourself permission."
-- Jack Darkhand
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:47:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: New UPP idea!
In mail you write:
> I recently realized the problem with posts on the TML. It's a really bad
> form of *communication* Experts tell us that most, probably something like
> 90% of communication in nonverbal, but on the TML all of the nonverbal part
> goes away. You don't know the right context for someone's post, so it's not
> as useful as it could be. To correct this, I came up with the following UPP
> (Universal Poster Profile) consisting of the traditional 6 stats in the 2d6
> range.
>
> Seriousness
> 2 - Come on, we're talking about a fantasy game here. How serious can that
> be?
> 12 - The Traveller universe is real and Marc Miller just channels it to our
> universe. Canon really is truth.
Call me about an 9.
> Thick-skinnedness
> 2 - I never leave lurker status because of the potential flames I might
> attract from some of the more outspoken list members.
> 12 - This is nothing. Try an IETF working group some time. You guys are a
> bunch of wusses.
Another 9?
> Political Orientation
> 2 - The money-grubbing Capitalist bosses only make their miserable
> livelihoods by exploiting the working class.
> 12 - Democrats, and anybody to the left of them, are a bunch of whiners who
> have never tried to run a business.
Sorry, I don't admit that this "range" is properly defined. :-)
> Anthropological Orientation
> 2 - World peace is possible, if we could only get the warmongers to sit down
> and shut up.
> 12 - It's survival of the fittest, and people naturally compete. Warfare is
> just another way in which we express this.
2 and 12?
> Technical Accuracy
> 2 - It's the qualitative that matters rather than the quantitative. By
> worrying about too much detail you are missing the big picture.
> 12 - I can give a reference in the literature for anything I state as a fact
> on the TML.
maybe an 11? :-)
> Gearheaddedness
> 2 - It's the impact of technology on people which makes Traveller
> interesting, not the technology itself. Who cares how it works?
> 12 - Traveller is hard science-fiction. If you can't back up a design with
> physics and calculations then it doesn't belong in Traveller. Leave that
> stuff in Dungeons and Dragons.
10? Except that the impact of the tech *is* important. It's just that
if you can't match the tech up to the laws of physics, you'll never get
the impacts right.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:52:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG))
In mail you write:
> At 05:47 AM 2/6/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>>Oh my gawd. You must be kidding. PLEASE tell me this is just an urban
>>myth!
>
> Nope.
>
> Even better was the guy who drove into the bank's drive up lane. He sent a
> note to the teller "Give me all the money, I have a gun." To prove this, he
> had thoughtfully included the gun in the package.
Another real story, but more of inadequate "homework" rather than true
stupidity.
Guy gets in line for a teller at a midtown Manhattan bank branch on the
10th floor of an office building. He gets to the window, pulls a gun
and proclaims "This is a stickup, give me all your money."
There's split second pause as everyone in the bank digests this. Then
*all* the other customers (a dozen or so) announce: "FBI! You're under
arrest!"
Seems that there was a big FBI office on the *8th* floor, and it was
payday. Our poor robber was the *only* person in the bank that wasn't
either a bank employee or FBI agent...
Heck, for that matter, a few years back right here in Portland we had a
guy who robbed the *same bank* 2 1/2 times over the course of about six
months. The 1/2 is because onm what would have been the third time, an
employee recognized him standing in line, and hit the silent alarm
*then*, before he got to the window. The police got there just as he
was pulling out the note...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 00:01:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
In mail you write:
> Leonard Erickson wrote :-
>> Huh? The *only* things it has in common with the biohazard symbol are
>> tri-lateral symmetry, and the presence of curves.
>> The biohazard symbol has arcs curving towards and away from the
>> *center* (at least if I remember it correctly). This has curves curving
>> towards *radial* lines.
>
> Oops. My mistake.
> Your symbol as described is a sort of 'inverted' biohazard symbol (both
> made up from a series of arcs of varying thicknesses), if
> I've drawn them both correctly on my scribble pad.
In case you haven't seen the post someone else made, try this...
three *sharp* golf tees placed with the "heads" forming a triangle and
the points outward.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 00:04:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: old SF for ideas
Baen has just released a new edition of "The Green Hills of Earth" by
Heinlein. Several of the stories are good ideas, as we've discussed in
the past.
It turns out that the "pilot makes high-gee emergency run" story is
"Ordeal in Space". "Space Jockey" is something (I didn't check, I just
looked up Ordeal when I saw the table of contents).
They'll be reprinting the rest of Heinlein's "Future History" stuff,
and probably his other short story collections as well.
They are also reprinting James. H. Schmitz's Telzey Amberdon stories,
apparently as a unified volume. They've got the first four chapters
(which cover the first Telzey story "Novice", and gets well into the
second) up at www.baen.com.
Telzey is a psi who gains her powers suddenly. The first story covers
this, and has an alien species that *has* to be introduced to Traveller
(Baluit crest cats).
The second story gets us into the Federation's Psychology Service (more
of a Psi Corps with good intentions). And we get some idea of what the
Federation of the Hub is like legally and extralegally.
The Hub would be a *great* Traveller background. Especially since, like
the Imperium, it has *huge* gaps between Federation law and local laws,
that allow for interesting things. Such as what is described as
"private wars"...
And the Psychology Service means that Psi characters are *possible*,
but will want to keep a low profile. For unexplained but *important*
reasons, the Service is trying to get the public used to psi as "mostly
harmless". And frowns *greatly* on people screwing this up.
I rather hope that Baen will republish Schmitz's other stuff set in the
Hub. Trigger Argee is a "freelance operative" (acts a lot like many
PCs!). And has some strange adventures that can also be "stolen".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:21:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
In mail you write:
> On Sat, 5 Feb 2000 14:37:03 -0500 (EST), you wrote:
>
>>Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:44:27
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>>Subject: Honey, I'm home!!!!
>
>>I'm back, and panicked.
>
>>Anybody have good sidebar ideas for Ground Forces? I am really stuck here.
>
> History - or notable episodes therefrom - of 'well known' units.
> Especially when they illustrate the unit at their finest in
> carrying out the mission of the ground forces. Or when they
> illustrate them at their worst in fouling it up...
>
> Anecdotes about the rivalries between the ground forces and other
> arms.
How about a couple showing that "low TL" is *not* equivalent to "fresh
meat". And that sometimes Hi TL troops can be utterly useless against
low TL natives.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1876
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Traveller-digest Monday, February 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1877
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Language bits
Re: OT Religion and Communism (was re: Computers and Technology IYTU)
Re: OT Religion and Communism (was re: Computers and Technology IYTU)
Re: Full Thrust & WinterCon 27
RE: CharGen & World Generation Rules
RE: Dimensions of starship missiles?
Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Re: OT Religion and Communism (was re: Computers and TechnologyIYTU)
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: To who may concern...... BTW this is WAY OT
RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
IBM Approaches TL13
Re: Language bits
Re: Ground Forces Sidebars (was: Honey, I'm home!!!!)
Re: Old GEnie archives
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: CharGen & World Generation Rules
JTAS & stat conversions
Magazine indexes
HIWG-TWG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 03:12:42
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Language bits
At 11:30 PM 2/6/2000 EST, you wrote:
>I had that same eerie sensation waiting in a checkout line many years ago.
>The world women's softball championships were in town, and bars, grocery
>stores and shops all over town were filled with young women in sports
>outfits. I was standing in line behind two young women engaged in an
>agitated conversion which I could barely understand. Then I realized it
>wasn't because of their accents -- they were speaking Dutch, and I was
>getting about half their conversation based on knowing a lot of English and
>a little German.
In my job I deal with tourists from all over the world. One of our drivers
is German, but you'd never no it from hearing him speak. He was taking two
German women to the airport from Fisherman's Wharf one mornong, when the
women started discussing their sexual adventures in San Francisco in some
detail.
One of the women began speculating about what it would be like to play with
the driver, and Bill turned around and told them he'd love to, but they'd
miss their flight in *perfect* German.
Not a single word the rest of the way in.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 06:35:40 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: Re: OT Religion and Communism (was re: Computers and Technology IYTU)
Smith, Walter said:
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >It's not even that. One thing the Soviet system *did* manage to do was
> >give us a significant sample of folks living quite happily *without* a
> >belief in dieties or an afterlife.
> >
>
> I've read and somewhat agree with the argument that this aspect of the
> Soviet system replaced religious dogma with political dogma, for similar
> purpose and to similar effect. I've heard it identified as a religion
> without a god (unless the diefication of the leader of the moment
> counted), carefully disguised so as to trap those who emotionally needed
> a religious system but had intellectually rebelled against the idea.
One has to ask, if the Soviet citizens were so happy without
a belief in dieties and an afterlife, why the Soviet Union had
such a high rate of alcoholism and suicides, and why, as soon
as the Soviet Union collapsed, people turned back to the Orthodox
Church in droves?
--Cynthia
- --
"..all I do is tell the Truth to the gods.. and I may sometimes
use it for a controlling spell because it is so rarely heard."
--Indrajit, the Ramayana
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 07:51:20 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: OT Religion and Communism (was re: Computers and Technology IYTU)
Cynthia Higginbotham wrote:
>
> One has to ask, if the Soviet citizens were so happy without
> a belief in dieties and an afterlife, why the Soviet Union had
> such a high rate of alcoholism and suicides, and why, as soon
> as the Soviet Union collapsed, people turned back to the Orthodox
> Church in droves?
That's because the Soviet people were forced to keep their religious faith
in check; they could not speak of it openly lest they receive a friendly
visit from their local Committee for State Security (KGB). I think their
problems with alcoholism and suicides go much further back than the
Bolsheviks.
When Gorby finally relented and allowed the Russian Orthodox Church back
into the public spotlight, people went to the ONE THING that anchored their
lives no matter what. There was an old saying before the Communists came
into power..."Two are everywhere, God and the Tsar."
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 06:58:58 -0600
From: meow@advancenet.net
Subject: Re: Full Thrust & WinterCon 27
Winter Con is actually Winter Wars Pat.
its also the con that hosted the Traveller Tournament that
would eventually become Shadows.
on another note, for those in the midwest, or who feel like traveling
in both senses of the word. Spring Offensive will be held in Peoria
Illinois the first weekend of April at Illinois Central College.
there will be at least one Traveller event at this con, along with a lot
of other games.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 21:01:48 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell"
Subject: RE: CharGen & World Generation Rules
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Robert James
> Eaglestone
> Sent: Sunday, 6 February 2000 9:13 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: CharGen & World Generation Rules
>
>
> Howdy folks,
>
> Today, I sat down with my wife and she rolled up three
> characters using the MegaTraveller character generation
> system. She really liked it a lot.
>
> Now, that's a compliment, because she doesn't care about
> Traveller. She's a neutral agent, or perhaps slightly
> negatively influenced by the amount of time I spend on
> it. :)
>
> Okay, so I had a thought. Perhaps we could use an
> extended world generation system akin to the MT chargen
> system.
>
> First, you roll up the physical stats of the world (and
> the system if you like). World size, atmosphere,
> hydrosphere. Or you pick a world you know and love.
>
> Then, you randomly roll a colonization group and the time
> frame they're colonizing in (what Milieu?). You select
> what their development goals are, and use the proper tables
> to determine what happens.
>
> The population is affected by the world physical stats,
> and events affect the world in general (natural or wartime
> cataclysms, additional colony groups, technological
> breakthroughs, trade). The starport is built, upgraded,
> downgraded, or destroyed. The planet joins (or leaves)
> the Imperium ... or the Imperium collapses, if you choose
> one of the Bad Milieux.
>
> Since world "generation" is a slow process, a small measure
> of terraforming may be feasible... or probably not. At
> any rate, by the time you reach the stats of the world for
> a milieu you recognize, the world generation is done.
>
> Thus, when you're done, you know the world's history.
> And that understanding adds depth when your players land
> on it and start to look around.
>
> Well what do you think? I got the idea from T4's
> _Pocket Empires_, but I prefer a process more akin to
> MT's chargen system.
>
> Rob
>
Sounds good to me, especially if it can be made suitable for all the
differing Traveller systems out their.
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 21:01:46 -0800
From: "Antony Farrell"
Subject: RE: Dimensions of starship missiles?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Michel
> Vaillancourt
> Sent: Sunday, 6 February 2000 5:07 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Dimensions of starship missiles?
>
>
> At 05:02 PM 2/6/00 -0800, you wrote:
> >This might be a repost but I seem to be having trouble getting through:
> >
> >Doe anyone recall or know of a source for the dimensions of starship
> >missiles? Especially the Third Imperium standards.
> >
> >Kristian
> >
> Book2 says that they are 50kgs. I presume they mean "displacement
> kilos", allowing 20 per ton. I worked out the dimensions for
> that some time
> ago; check the list archives.
> SS3: Missles confirms the 50kg size, but not if it is mass or
> displacement. They also say that anything bigger than 50kgs
> cannot be fired
> out of a rack and requires a bay.
>
> --Michel
> (SS3 Junkie)
>
Then of course TNE states that standard space missiles are 7 displacement
tons with two carried in a standard turret and five in a barbette. The
numbers in bays varies according to the number of launchers and reload
cradles fitted.
As an aside I have a TNE example of a TL9/10 missile cruiser (Diomedes
class) on my web site, just follow the links, its at
http://www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran
Antony
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:14:51 +0000
From: John Wood
Subject: Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Hi Doug,
>I'm back, and panicked.
>
>Anybody have good sidebar ideas for Ground Forces? I am really stuck here.
A few more suggestions for you. I hope some of them are new/useful:
* Vignettes on leaving the army:
retiring with honors;
dishonorable discharge;
invalided out;
Killed in Action.
* Examples of cushy stations and "billets in hell".
* The position of aliens in the army (specific roles, prejudices, etc.).
* The oath soldiers swear when signing up.
* Popular entertainments.
* Army cuisine.
* Scams perpetrated by troops (supply redirection, etc.).
* Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.
* Draft dodging.
* Attitudes of Imperial Army troops towards:
Other Imperial forces (Scouts, Navy, Marines);
Foreign armies (Solomani, Sword Worlders, Zhodani);
Planetary forces;
Mercenaries;
Civilians.
Perhaps their stereotypes of the Army as well.
* (Printable) jokes told by and about the Army.
* The grunts' perspective on good and bad officers.
I'm not a military type, so I've probably got some terminology wrong,
but I'm sure you'll know what I'm trying to say.
Good luck - I'm looking forward to seeing what you produce!
John
John G. Wood
Oxford, United Kingdom http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:42:55 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Douglas E. Berry" wrote
> >I'm back, and panicked.
> >Anybody have good sidebar ideas for Ground Forces?
GURPS products usually have crossover ideas in sidebars
in the last few pages. I suspect you've already thought
of crossovers with other GURPS Traveller products but
maybe some sidebars on crossovers with "regular" GURPS
products. Maybe a GURPS Dinosaurs crossover for the
"Ground Forces" of a TL 0 world. A crossover sidebar on
GURPS Special Ops and/or GURPS Espionage to help cover
special forces & Military Intelligence. Possibly a
(selective) crossover with GURPS Lensmen for starkly
astonishing Ground Forces. A crossover with GURPS
Swashbucklers would be great to help cover TL 4 ground
forces.
Canon says Zhodani teleport commandos like to use
wooded areas as staging areas. How about a sidebar
explaining Imperial policy on using (or more likely
not using) defoliants in a 10 km radius around all
bases to help deter this. Will the Imperial ground
forces really care about wrecking the environment?
(At least as long as they're not on their home planet.)
How about a sidebar on how soldiers determine if alien
vegetation is suitable for use in a still.
Military music of the Third Imperium, possibly with
lyrics.
Notes on how the Imperial Military sets up quisling
units or explaining why they do not do so.
Impolite acronyms used by ground forces (REMF, SNAFU,
FUBAR, etc), I assume learning these words is part of
Savoir-Faire (Military). Provide new acronyms for the
Ground forces.
Notes on camp followers.
Descriptions of how ground force personnel use their
equipment in unauthorized ways.
Notes on what organized sports the military has. Do
the Marines and the Army still have a sports rivalry?
How about notes for a campaign based on _deserters_.
How about a sidebar on the treatment of the dead (friendly,
enemy, and civilian). In a silly Traveller universe this
might include a "Desert Peach" reference, possibly with
the Peaches unit as a Solomani unit. If you are macabre
about it you could even do a GURPS Vehicles design for a
body bag (yes a body bag is a vehicle, albeit an unpowered
one, it is a transport vehicle). Donna Barr artwork is probably
too much to hope for.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:48:24 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: OT Religion and Communism (was re: Computers and TechnologyIYTU)
Actually, from many russians I have talked to, it was said that possession
of a bible was grounds for imprisonment for a minimum of 5 years.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: OT Religion and Communism (was re: Computers and
TechnologyIYTU)
> Cynthia Higginbotham wrote:
> >
> > One has to ask, if the Soviet citizens were so happy without
> > a belief in dieties and an afterlife, why the Soviet Union had
> > such a high rate of alcoholism and suicides, and why, as soon
> > as the Soviet Union collapsed, people turned back to the Orthodox
> > Church in droves?
>
> That's because the Soviet people were forced to keep their religious faith
> in check; they could not speak of it openly lest they receive a friendly
> visit from their local Committee for State Security (KGB). I think their
> problems with alcoholism and suicides go much further back than the
> Bolsheviks.
>
> When Gorby finally relented and allowed the Russian Orthodox Church back
> into the public spotlight, people went to the ONE THING that anchored
their
> lives no matter what. There was an old saying before the Communists came
> into power..."Two are everywhere, God and the Tsar."
>
> --
> Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
> Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
> http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 07:40:29 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
>> People don't argue that 'You can't clone the human soul' because
>> the technology is somehow dehumanizing, they're simply unable or
>> unwilling to face evidence that, after all, there might not be anything
>> to this 'soul' thing anyway.
>
>You're overlooking what the "soul" actually means in Christianity.
>Considering the fact that it's frequently viewed as the essence humanity,
>one might say, "If there's nothing to this "soul" thing, then there might be
>nothing to this "humanity" thing either".
Keep in mind that there are many who do not have a Judeao-Christian
viewpoint on the world. For example, as an athiest, I don't believe in
the existence of the "soul" as defined by most religions, and in
particular Christianity.
>> Besides, it's a persuasive argument (to me at least) that one of the
>> emotional foundations of the whole God-Creator thing, is that we
>> are 'The Apes That Make Things', therefore we look for a
>> Watchmaker.
>
>Possibly, but I'm always leery of people who cite "emotional needs" as the
>basis for a position. It always looks to me like a cop out.
It's a valid psychological phenomenon.
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:05:36 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: To who may concern...... BTW this is WAY OT
Hiroshi? The ultra-sound probes we build have 'hiroshi' connectors. did
you get yourself a RICH man Kiri? :)
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: To who may concern...... BTW this is WAY OT
> Well I don't know if we can count on seeing Emperor Estigarribia there
(LOL,
> just for the newbies I'll explain that... my boyfriend's name really IS
> Hiroshi!)-- but *I* will be there with bells on, unless something weird
> happens and I have to run back to Japan before then.
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:04:35 -0600
From: "Moody, Danny M."
Subject: RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
> > Anybody have good sidebar ideas for Ground Forces? I am
> really stuck here.
'A day in the Life of a Marine' as a letter home, ar as a diary entry.
'Colorful' words and terms.
A description of a standard military ration pack - like MRE's were described
in T2K.
vargr1 UPP-8D9B85
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ vargr1@jcn1*com
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." dmoody@bridge*com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:08:51 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)"
Subject: IBM Approaches TL13
Greetings, fellow sophonts!
Work has loosened up enough for me to not only consider gaming again (YES!)
but also to scan TML digests.
So, I thought I'd say "hello again" with my resumption of occasional
Traveller useful(?), Real World(tm) "far tech" development posts.
I limit myself to only those posts which may provide an underlying reason
for *why* something in Traveller works...or something that can help remind
(in a cool way) that science fiction often become science fact.
Quotes from published news stories are limited in length due to bandwidth
and copyright considerations but I'll always post the URL for those of you
who want "the full story".
Enough of the legal stuff, onto the post:
- -- Quote from ScienceDaily --
SAN JOSE, Calif. (February 3, 2000) -- IBM scientists have discovered a
way to transport information on the atomic scale that uses the wave nature
of
electrons instead of conventional wiring. The new phenomenon, called the
"quantum mirage" effect, may enable data transfer within future nanoscale
electronic circuits too small to use wires.
"This is a fundamentally new way of guiding information through a solid,"
said
IBM Fellow Donald M. Eigler, IBM's lead researcher on this project.. "We
call it a mirage because we project information about one atom to another
spot where there is no atom."
As computer circuit features shrink toward atomic dimensions -- which they
have for decades in accordance with Moore's Law -- the behavior of
electrons changes from being like particles described by classical physics
to
being like waves described by quantum mechanics. On such small scales, for
example, tiny wires don't conduct electrons as well as classical theory
predicts. So quantum analogs for many traditional functions must be
available
if nanocircuits are to achieve the desired performance advantages of their
small size.
IBM's new quantum mirage technique may prove to be just such a substitute
for the wires connecting nanocircuit components.
- -- End Quote --
The full story can be found at:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/02/000207074352.htm
Any questions regarding Moore's Law, classical physics, or quantum
mechanics should be addressed to some of the TML's resident scientists.
My last name is not to be considered indicative of natural ability or
training; I'm just a gearhead/scientist wannabe. ;-)
Gawd, I sound like a lawyer. *sigh* I've been working too hard.
"Keep The Flame"
David
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:38:48 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Language bits
In a message dated 2/7/00 4:33:44 AM !!!First Boot!!!, GDWGAMES@aol.com
writes:
<< The world women's softball championships were in town, and bars, grocery
stores and shops all over town were filled with young women in sports
outfits. >>
Sounds like a bad dirty joke...:-)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:40:28 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ground Forces Sidebars (was: Honey, I'm home!!!!)
In a message dated 2/7/00 5:52:14 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au writes:
<< How are Imperial aliens treated in the military? You could include bits
about
the Aslan Imperial Guard >>
YEAH; a write up of the Imperal Guard would be VERY nice...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:56:35 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Old GEnie archives
In a message dated 2/6/00 3:08:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Do you know if the old GEnie stuff was archived and if you do is it
> available for DL? Thanks in advance!
Some of the files are available on the HIWG CD, however the topic areas
aren't at this point. Regretfully at the time we didn't know GEnie had a
compilation copyright on the material so I haven't figured a way yet of how
to get all of that available (especially since I'm no longer on GEnie and I'm
not sure who to ask there anymore).
And that's the only sore point I have with SJG's boards (I'd like to be
able to include those on the CD at some future point).
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:54:15 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
From: Glenn St-Germain
> > You're overlooking what the "soul" actually means in Christianity.
> > Considering the fact that it's frequently viewed as the essence
> > humanity, one might say, "If there's nothing to this "soul" thing, then
> > there might be nothing to this "humanity" thing either".
>
> Keep in mind that there are many who do not have a Judeao-
> Christian viewpoint on the world. For example, as an athiest, I don't
> believe in the existence of the "soul" as defined by most religions,
> and in particular Christianity.
I can't think of anything which I've posted which would indicate I haven't
kept that in mind.
> >Possibly, but I'm always leery of people who cite "emotional
> >needs" as the basis for a position. It always looks to me like a cop
> >out.
>
> It's a valid psychological phenomenon.
To turn the tables:
Keep in mind that there are many who don't have have a modern, Western,
psychological viewpoint on the world. For example, as someone who is
vehemently opposed to the notions which are presented in modern psychology,
I don't believe in many of its tenets. In other words, my stance on theories
based on some "emotional need" is similar to that you have on the
Judeo-Christian soul.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:06:43 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Re: CharGen & World Generation Rules
Antony Farrell wrote:
>
> > Okay, so I had a thought. Perhaps we could use an
> > extended world generation system akin to the MT chargen
> > system.
> >
> Sounds good to me, especially if it can be made suitable for all the
> differing Traveller systems out their.
Eeek, that's a loaded word, there. Suitable, eh?
Well, I suppose it would be more-or-less modular:
that is, it's not an integral part of the game.
It's just a structured way to put some real general
history into a planet at one's whim. The concepts
are vague enough to apply to any TU, I suppose,
though the STYLE of the system would by nature
tend to be more like one system than another.
Or would it? I remember _Pocket Empires_ ran off
of task rolls, so I suppose it would use BITS' task
system instead of raw numbers and dice. That would
be ok I guess, and it seems to be the only
application-specific logic... hmm...
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:01:51 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: JTAS & stat conversions
In a message dated 2/6/00 3:08:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> << I queried this on the JTAS board yesterday (no response yet). My
suggestion
> was to recommend that all articles caryy game stats in as many systems as
> possible. >>
>
> A good idea.
What I would add to that is copy the CORE/BITs task rules to the JTAS
board (or provide a link).
Also handy would be a conversion routine to convert characters and
beasties between all five systems.
Third would be presenting ships in as many of these systems as possible
(or some way to roughly convert).
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:08:03 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Magazine indexes
In a message dated 2/6/00 3:08:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Lately, I've had my plate full w/ the rpg magazine index
> program. This should also help sector authors, as it will
> help us locate past published material. Just got Imperium
> Staple and Working Passage entered. Don't suppose anybody
> has a semi-complete run of Between Worlds, Third Imperium,
> Starburst, or Kfan Uzargou which they'd be willing to
> photocopy for a good cause. I'd be more than wiling to pay
> for the copies & postage.
Starburst is on the HIWG CD I believe. Kfan Uzargou can be had from Roger
Myhre (cc'ed to his old address) and might probably be on the next version of
the CD. I'm not sure about the other two offhand. Paul Sanders might have
them or their indexes at a guess.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:10:35 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: HIWG-TWG
In a message dated 2/6/00 3:08:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> >The TWG list is/was a way to provide a more useful forum for feedback that
> >resembled those good old days.
>
> Coud somebody send me the sub address for that? I've lost it, again.
HIWG-twg@qrc.com
It needs a little revival though. Hopefully now that JTAS is back it'll
provide a more active forum.
Bryan
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1877
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Date: 2/7/00 2:07:42 PM Pacific Standard Time
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To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Monday, February 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1878
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re HIWG-TWG
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: To who may concern...... BTW this is WAY OT
Missing Digest 1840
MT manuals: no more available
Re: Magazine indexes
Re: OT Religion and Communism
Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
[BITS] Official response on BITS Task system use for JTAS
BITS Task System URL
re: Full Thrust
This is my campaign concept
RE: Full Thrust
More RealWorld(tm) Far Tech For Traveller
Re: Magazine indexes
Re: This is my campaign concept
First Pass on the World Generation System
Re Ground Forces
Re: Ground Forces Sidebars (was: Honey, I'm home!!!!)
Re: JTAS copyright
RE: Choice of Law (TRAV)
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: First Pass on the World Generation System
Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:15:05 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re HIWG-TWG
In a message dated 2/6/00 8:56:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Agreed. IG burnt fingers. My comments aren't a criticism of HIWG US'
> efforts in maintaining the TWG list. HIWG TWG list is a great
> resource, and probably under-used because of the bad taste that IG
> left. And pretty quiet (but that may change with a T5 launch).
Regretfully I haven't had the time to keep it active though I'd been
looking at finding some to activate an expanded magazine. Now that JTAS is
active....
Don't take IG as an example..... (not that accidents haven't happened
with GDW or DGP in the old days, but they were all unintentional, or didn't
really happen).
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:24:06 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
In a message dated 2/6/00 8:56:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> More than once. GDW was accused of stealing the Ancients from Fred Pohl and
> of stealing the Aslan from CJ Cherryh, among other things. Used to happen
> every few months, back in the bad old days.
That still happens at least once a year, in regards to Cherryh (another thing
for the TML FAQ perhaps). As for the Ancients we could include Norton and the
FORERUNNERS and many others.
> Did I ever tell you we heard from Fred Pohl's agent once? Someone was
sending
> him letters about how we were stealing things left and right. We sent
copies
> of everything relevant, and a couple of weeks later got a phone call.
Seems
> when Fred finally stopped laughing, he said told his agent to ignore thee
> whole thing.
>
> << (where someone accused Loren of plagiarizing their material). >>
>
> Yeah, years ago. I was accused of ripping off something on a web page on
the
>
> basis of the following facts:
>
> 1) a URL was given on the TML
>
> 2) Some of the names were the same.
>
> I had never read the document I had supposedly taken the idea from. My
> accuser had never read the document that supposedly incorporated "his"
ideas.
That's the one I recalled somewhat.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:27:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: To who may concern...... BTW this is WAY OT
On Mon, 7 Feb 2000, Jory Earl wrote:
> Hiroshi? The ultra-sound probes we build have 'hiroshi' connectors. did
> you get yourself a RICH man Kiri? :)
> ___________________________________________________________
LOL, not hardly!!! Hiroshi is one of the more common Japanese male
names-- it's only rare in THIS country. It's probably not even written
with the same characters.
Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:32:16 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Missing Digest 1840
Does anybody still have a copy of digest #1840 they can forward to me?
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:45:30 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: MT manuals: no more available
Many people apparently missed my posting to the TML yesterday about the
distribution of the Word-format MT rules.
The vacancies on my list filled up very quickly, and I sent out the
copies yesterday afternoon. There are no more copies to distribute.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:51:38 -0800
From: "J. Paul Sanders"
Subject: Re: Magazine indexes
At 11:08 AM 2/7/00 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 2/6/00 3:08:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
>> Lately, I've had my plate full w/ the rpg magazine index
>> program. This should also help sector authors, as it will
>> help us locate past published material. Just got Imperium
>> Staple and Working Passage entered. Don't suppose anybody
>> has a semi-complete run of Between Worlds, Third Imperium,
>> Starburst, or Kfan Uzargou which they'd be willing to
>> photocopy for a good cause. I'd be more than wiling to pay
>> for the copies & postage.
>
> Starburst is on the HIWG CD I believe. Kfan Uzargou can be had from
Roger
>Myhre (cc'ed to his old address) and might probably be on the next version
of
>the CD. I'm not sure about the other two offhand. Paul Sanders might have
>them or their indexes at a guess.
Umm... I have complete sets of Alien Star, NCRP, The Imperium Staple,
Between Worlds, The Imperial News Service, Jump Space, Dark Star (the
mid-80's one), Imperial Lines, Terra Traveller Times, Signal-GK, Variant,
Tiffany Star, Working Passage, Third Imperium, Security Leak, Adjutant,
and sundry other fanzines that have Traveller material in the issues I own
(Journal of the Senseless Carnage Society, etc.). You'd need to contact Jae
regarding copies of Signal-GK (he is on the TML), but I'd be willing to
make copies of the other material for whoever wrote the original post above
in about two weeks time if you'll contact me at: timmon@primenet.com
Just a minor update on the Keith Supplements - I have the material back
from the printer and am about 1/2 done with the binding (bound over 100
books yesterday alone). Once I am done with the binding they'll be going
back to the printer for trimming and then I'll package 'em and mail 'em.
Regards,
Paul Sanders
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:48:49 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: OT Religion and Communism
Walt Smith replied to Leonard Erickson:
> >It's not even that. One thing the Soviet system *did* manage to do
> >was give us a significant sample of folks living quite happily
> >*without* a belief in dieties or an afterlife.
>
> I've read and somewhat agree with the argument that this aspect of
> the Soviet system replaced religious dogma with political dogma, for
> similar purpose and to similar effect. I've heard it identified as a
> religion without a god (unless the diefication of the leader of the
> moment counted), carefully disguised so as to trap those who
> emotionally needed a religious system but had intellectually rebelled
> against the idea.
This need not be the case. I think Sweden is currently an example of a
people (in any case the majority) living quite happily without a
religious belief. The main difference is that we do not forbid religion,
in fact we allow many kinds of religious belief, but we do not promote
any one of them in the way that the US does (in presidential speaks
etc). Only one of our major (5-10 of them, depending on how you count
them) political parties is religious (in this case Christian).
So, politics need not replace religion. As long as politics don't
directly interfere with the religious beliefs of those who wish to
maintain such beliefs (or interfere with the lack of belief for those so
inclined), the populace will be happy.
As far as I am concerned, anyone can have any religious belief they
want, as long as they do not harm another person or try to force their
beliefs on someone not willing to accept them.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
(atheist, but some of my friends are religious, Christian or otherwise)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:03:20 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Moody, Danny M. wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Subject: RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
> > > Anybody have good sidebar ideas for Ground Forces? I am
> > really stuck here.
>
> 'A day in the Life of a Marine' as a letter home, ar as a diary entry.
>
> 'Colorful' words and terms.
Considering that SJG tring for a PG rating, and most military acronmscontain 4
letter words or are. We would have to totally rewrite some.
A French Horse bath..... bathing in the feild out of your helmet.
> A description of a standard military ration pack - like MRE's were described
> in T2K.
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:09:12 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: [BITS] Official response on BITS Task system use for JTAS
BITS - British Isles Traveller Support
http://www.bits.org.uk/
Mike Peters asked a pertinent question about the use of the BITS task
system for JTAS. I have queried this with Andy Lilly (BITS Director)
and the response is as follows:
1. Yes, BITS is very happy for people to use and reference the BITS
generic task system in their Traveller works, including articles for
the new JTAS, etc.
2. People may not *currently* copy the entire page of text and table
from the front of the BITS books which describes the BITS generic
task system as this is copyrighted. However, I will discuss this
matter with SJ Games to determine whether they would like to
officially recognise and/or support this generic task system.
3. I would suggest that people writing specifically for SJ Games
reverse the format used in the BITS books, i.e. giving the GURPS
statistics or skills first in plain text, then following with T4
stats, in italics and parentheses, e.g. a task might be described as
"Formidable Vision (T4: Perception)" where "(T4: Perception)" is in
italics.
Hope this helps,
Dom (BITS Webmaster)
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------
BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.
http://www.bits.org.uk/ mailto:bits@bits.org.uk
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.
BITS and CORE are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.
All rights reserved.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:17:24 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: BITS Task System URL
Loren wrote:
>Steve is the final arbiter at my end, however, I don't think this will cause
>too big a problem if BITS agrees.
>
>Is the BITS conversion on-line someplace? We could provide a link to the page
Direct URL is
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/Acrobat/BITStask.pdf
The file is an Acrobat PDF file; the Cybergoths ISP address may
change in the future(*) - It may be easier to direct people to the
BITS website http://www.bits.org.uk/ and tell them to go to the
Archive page.
Alternatively, I can enquire if Andy will happily have the PDF file
hosted at JTAS?
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:23:31 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: Full Thrust
At 6:07 -0500 7/2/00, "William F. Hostman" wrote:
> >Second, I had the chance to play the ruleset called
> >Full Thrust. These have been mentioned several times
> >on this list. I wonder if any enterprising soul has developed
> >a conversion for Traveller of these rules?
>
>It's a great ruleset. I came in the back way (EFSB, then on to FT), but it
>really is sweet. Simple, quick, and playable, and there are near-newtonian
>movement rules in FB and EFSB.
>
>AFAIK, not yet, but shall we?
There are at least three I know of - Fifth Frontier Thrust and
another whose name I can't remember. They're linked off the FT
webring. There is also a BITS playtest draft which hasn't been
touched since GenConUK 99. If you want to see it, let me know.
That's an open offer, as I don't see myself taking it much further.
It includes HG conversion rules for ship design.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 19:52:29 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: This is my campaign concept
I am finally beginning to put together the pieces I want to include in
my Traveller campaign. The first two campaigns I played were run using
the normal setting and rules. This will be a longer campaign, and I want
to include some of my own ideas in it.
First of all, I will not use the 3rd Imperium setting this time. The
game is set in the near future of Earth.
Second, this campaign will not be as open-ended as the previous games I
have run. The player characters will have superiors within their
organization (GSEC, Global Space Exploration Community) to follow orders
from.
Third, I will be using 3D jumpspace for this game. I don't care if this
destroys the balance of large-scale space combat, because the game isn't
about balance. It is about chaos, confusion, and the desperate defense
of Humanity.
In addition, I will not be using standard vehicles and spaceships,
instead designing a few of my own, as well as letting any interested
players make designs of their own. New technical solutions are after all
being tested constantly.
I will gather all the information about this campaign on the Traveller
page of my server. It is at http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se/traveller/
(active about 90% of the time). Right now the background story is
already posted, but more material will follow. I would love some
comments from you, since this is the first Traveller campaign I've ever
put any real thought behind.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:46:09 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: Full Thrust
You wrote:
> There are at least three I know of - Fifth Frontier Thrust and
> another whose name I can't remember. They're linked off the FT
> webring. There is also a BITS playtest draft which hasn't been
> touched since GenConUK 99. If you want to see it, let me know.
>
> That's an open offer, as I don't see myself taking it much further.
> It includes HG conversion rules for ship design.
You mean its not going to be a BITS product (complete with AHL
miniatures) on this year's trade stand? Bummer! Okay, can you
email me a copy?
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:27:56 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)"
Subject: More RealWorld(tm) Far Tech For Traveller
The news site Beyond 2000 has posted a story on the
use of an inflatable reentry vehicle at:
http://www.beyond2000.com/news/story_435.html
That's right. Inflatable. This thing, sponsored by a
German-Russian consortium, supposedly takes the place
of heat-absorbing material *and* reentry-speed-slowing
parachutes. The site mentions a flight test that will
occur this coming week as well as a link to a VR
simulation of the vehicle's use.
ObTrav: Anyone remember the personal re-entry kits
from MT? Now you can use something similar for cargo,
saving landing time and fees.
David
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:02:23 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Magazine indexes
At 18:51 07.02.00 , you wrote:
> > Starburst is on the HIWG CD I believe. Kfan Uzargou can be had from
>Roger
> >Myhre (cc'ed to his old address) and might probably be on the next version
>of
> >the CD. I'm not sure about the other two offhand. Paul Sanders might have
> >them or their indexes at a guess.
>When will the next version be out, anyway?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 13:39:48 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: Re: This is my campaign concept
Jens:
Your webpage is a really good read. It sounds like a tough,
gritty, dangerous universe to be in, and that means FUN!
Also, it doesn't violate the spirit of the Traveller history.
Uh oh. Does that make me a Docetic Traveller?
Everyone:
Per "canon" modules, is First Contact *really* in the 2080's
or 2090's? I recall seeing a post from Marc Miller, perhaps
older material, perhaps a redaction, which places First
Contact a century later, in the 2100's. Does anyone else
remember this? Probably a typo, eh? Yet it would give "us"
more time to sync up our timeline with the TU. Suspension
of disbelief and all that.
Not that it's all that important, especially if you give
introductions sort of like this: "The first permanent space
stations were in orbit in 1990. The first Lunar colony was
founded in 1996. The first Martian colony was founded in
2010..." Establishing the Traveller timeline as an alternate
reality helps, in other words.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 13:44:40 -0600
From: "Robert Eaglestone"
Subject: First Pass on the World Generation System
My first pass on the "WorldGen" system is on the
web at
members.home.com/eaglestone/WorldGen.html
It is seminal, thus incomplete. A smattering of
ideas taking shape. Suggestions are welcome.
I plan on conforming the gameplay to use the BITS
generic task system, which makes it less tied to
a particular (MT) system.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 12:00:42 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Ground Forces
><< How are Imperial aliens treated in the military? You could include bits
>about
> the Aslan Imperial Guard >>
>
>YEAH; a write up of the Imperal Guard would be VERY nice...
And how about Virushi medics, Newt Administrators, Dolphin Aquatic scouts,
Vargr Supply officers, Ael Yael Scouts?
These are the standards for stereotypes in several people's TU's...
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 12:49:54
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Ground Forces Sidebars (was: Honey, I'm home!!!!)
At 10:40 AM 2/7/2000 EST, you wrote:
>YEAH; a write up of the Imperal Guard would be VERY nice...
Did they appear in detail anywhere but TD#9?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 12:57:13
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
At 11:30 PM 2/6/2000 EST, Loren wrote:
>More than once. GDW was accused of stealing the Ancients from Fred Pohl and
>of stealing the Aslan from CJ Cherryh, among other things. Used to happen
>every few months, back in the bad old days.
Dpeaking of authors, I had the chance to show Poul Anderson _First In_
(which is dedicated to him) at last year's BayCon. I mentioned that the
book had a detailed system generation system and he suddenly looked like a
kid who was just told that Santa died on the lawn and his bag was still
there..
We ended up playing with the numbers for about half an hour. He seemed
impressed, and appreciated having the dedication.
>Remind me to tell you of the phone calls I used to get from the FBI
>Behavioral Science Unit way back when. Used to bug our receptionist no end
>evidently she believed I was some kind of threat to national security or
>something : )
Your receptionist thought you were a threat? Well, she'd know best..
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:49:26 -0000
From: "Mark Preston"
Subject: RE: Choice of Law (TRAV)
May I suggest a rather simpler version that is more likely to appeal
to Strephon and I doubt his successors would have the nerve to change.
Imperial Edict 24 (he'd get here damn quickly):
"All contracts established within the Imperium, or by any Imperial
citizen, or with any Imperial citizen shall be adjudged to be
established under relevant Imperial Law."
And, of course, he has the guns and money to enforce the edict - as
well as the megacorporation to take advantage of it.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> William F.
> Hostman
> Sent: 05 February 2000 21:47
> To: traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject: Choice of Law
>
> ><< Since SJG has choice of law limited to their home
> state, US law applies.
> > >>
> >
> >Why is there a choice of law limitation on SJG? Do they
> have a choice of
>
[snip]
>
> Basically, it is a way of saying "Since we can't be
> prepared for everyone's
> laws with a standard contract, we'll prepare them under
> laws *WE know*, and
>
[snip]
>
> Now, in the 3i, this brings a much bigger problem; there
> are well more than
> 11000 places for choice of law, and they may vary widely in
> even the most
> basic presumptions. So IMTU, Imperial law specifies choiceof law
> precedences...
> from MTU, and I put forward for your perusal and comment:
>
[many lines of snipped legalese]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 14:59:28 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>
> Remind me to tell you of the phone calls I used to get from the FBI
> Behavioral Science Unit way back when. Used to bug our receptionist no end --
> evidently she believed I was some kind of threat to national security or
> something : )
Tell us the story Unca' Loren!!! ;-)
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:58:01 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: First Pass on the World Generation System
From: Robert Eaglestone
> It is seminal, thus incomplete. A smattering of
> ideas taking shape. Suggestions are welcome.
A good start, Robert, congrats!
Since you're asking for suggestions, here are a few:
> A. Population increase: 2d6 - 7 %;
> 1. hydrosphere 3-7, DM+1;
> 2. atmosphere 4-8, DM+1;
> 3. hydrosphere 6, atmosphere 6, DM+2 [T-Prime]
With regard to population increases, I would suggest that at some time
during the process, it might be possible to generate a sort of "special
event" which might increase or decrease the population. I would personally
leave what the special event actually is somewhat vague, to allow GMs to
customize what the event is.
For example, the discovery of a rich vein of precious metals might spark a
mining boom, and spike the population up. The discovery of an Ancient site
might have similar effects. Perhaps a planet might become the center for a
counter-cultural movement which might bring young people in who might then
start families. Like I was saying, if a potential special event is left
vague, it will allow GMs to customize their worlds (and also generate ideas
for adventures).
>B. Law level change: d6: 1-3 = -1; 4-6 = +1
To keep this in line with the standard Traveller assumption that high
population worlds tend to have stricter laws, you might want to add
something like a +1 DM for a higher population.
>C. Government revolution: 2 on 2d6.
So, statistically a revolution should happen about once every 360 years or
so? I guess that doesn't sound too bad.
Personally, I would go for something a little more complex, which would have
to do with each specific government type. It doesn't always have to be a
revolution, after all. For example, it's quite likely that a Charismatic
Dictator might die and be replaced by a Non-Charismatic Leader. This would
change the government code.
On the other hand, a Civil Service Bureaucracy, might very well degenerate
into an Impersonal one, or vice versa. There are a number of different
government "families" on the government chart, and I would suspect it
wouldn't take a "revolution" for them to change from time to time.
I would handle revolutions a little differently, however (high pop worlds
might become Balkanized Ones, while low pop worlds might become anarchies).
A revolution might be more or less likely depending on what government type
is in action. The government chart *does* indicate whether or not a
government has the confidence of the people.
There might also be special effects:
An upgraded starport facility facility might bring new visitors, or new
cargos, or might reflect the fact that a megacorp is working to create a new
market. Shifts in tech level could very well bring with them social
pressures which could force a change in government... and so on.
Good luck! Hope to see the finished product.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:54:56 +1100
From: "ab"
Subject: Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Some of these may have been suggested before (been busy, just skimming the
list at the moment) but:
Awards and Decorations
Rank and Insignia
Uniform variations
Typical daily scedule
Repatriation/ going home
Class Distinctions/ Off duty hours (eg: Enlisted/ NCOs/ Officers and what
they do)
The Army-Navy Grav Ball Game (See:
http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/archive/General/GravBall/gravball.html)
A conversation with the recruiting officer (Gee son, you don't want to be
stuck on this mudball forever do you?)
A conversation in the drill sargeant (Crawl you horrible, disgusting, worm!
You down want to be stuck down in that mud forever do you?)
A conversation on the soldier's first assignment (Well, we're going to be
stuck here garrisoning this mudball for the next four years...)
A conversation in/ prior to combat (Fight! You want to die on this mudball
soldier?)
After retirement, a conversation with a young potential recruit (One thing I
learned in service: You learn to love the mud.)
Slang terms
Acronyms
Boots and Imperial Military Footwear Technology
Battlefield medicine/ medics
Battlefield drugs
A cross-training experience (eg: An Imperial Army officer reminices about
his assignment with the Podunk Irregulars, or vice versa)
Requisitioning equipment and the joy of quartermasters
Temporary assignment with an Aslan unit
The battlefield sight
Briefings (reiterate some standard briefing procedures eg: SMEACS)
Camp security options (eg: Patrols, recon by autofire, high tech options
such as radar and siesmic sensing)
Military discipline
Bayonet practice
What the battlefield looks like after
A letter home and the military censor (there was a thread about this on the
list a while back)
Hope some of these fire the imagination.
Good luck.
- -AB
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1878
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Traveller-digest Monday, February 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1879
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Magazine indexes
Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
Re: JTAS Online
Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers
Re: Magazine indexes
RE: Full Thrust
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
Re: SETI@home monthly report
Re: old SF for ideas
Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Re: Urban Legends
RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1874
Next CD
Re: Urban Legends
? (Was: Re: )
Re: Nazis and Solomani (was Re: Instant Zombie Bullets?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:17:34 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)"
Subject: Re: Magazine indexes
J. Paul Sanders posted:
>
> Umm... I have complete sets of Alien Star, NCRP, The Imperium Staple,
> Between Worlds, The Imperial News Service, Jump Space, Dark Star (the
> mid-80's one), Imperial Lines, Terra Traveller Times,
> Signal-GK, Variant,
> Tiffany Star, Working Passage, Third Imperium, Security Leak,
> Adjutant,
> and sundry other fanzines that have Traveller material in the
> issues I own
*DROOL*! Um..if you should just happen to mistakenly make an
extra copy, I'll be happy to take the little problem off your
hands. Just let me know.
> Just a minor update on the Keith Supplements - I have the
> material back
> from the printer and am about 1/2 done with the binding
> (bound over 100
> books yesterday alone). Once I am done with the binding
> they'll be going
> back to the printer for trimming and then I'll package 'em
> and mail 'em.
Thanks for the update, Paul. I am *so* looking forward to
getting my copy. (bounce bounce bounce)
(Ignore the pleading whine emanating from your monitor...
I'm learning it from my dog.)
David
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:33:49 +0000
From: Andy Gibson
Subject: Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers (LONG)
Hi, Folks,
Sorry to be rather late posting this, but I'm behind with my mail (as
usual).
Chris Seamans wrote:
>From:
>>Some synaptic processing exists in starship computers at the higher
>> tech levels (13+), but the synaptic results are always cross-checked
>> by the deterministic portion. - Joe D. Fugate Sr.
>
>This is a huge, gaping hole. His whole side of the argument collapses right
>here. If a deterministic starship computer can do the work of a synaptic
>computer well enough to check to see if it's correct, then the issue becomes
>moot, doesn't it?
>
>In that case, why do high tech computers need to incorporate synaptic
>elements at all?
>
Sorry - I just don't see this as true. I'm afraid the only way I can
think of to explain why is by an analogy, given that I have no idea how
to actually calculate a jump vector:
In real engineering problems many, if not most, problems are non-
linear and/or multivariate and require iterative or numerical methods to
solve. That generally means *lots* of number crunching. Throw any one
of several such problems routinely solved on today's computers at an
8086, say, and you'll have a /real/ long wait for an answer. Give the
same 8086 the answer, however, and it will be quite capable of checking
that the answer given fits with all the required constraints and fulfils
all the required criteria. With problems that require iterative or
numerical solution it is a lot easier to check an answer than it is to
solve the problem.
I can quite imagine that calculating a jump vector might require all
sorts of fuzzy and pseudo-judgement based techniques to arrive at an
answer in a reasonable time, but give answers which can be checked
determinately against a set of required criteria and constraints.
>> Robot brains and starship computers are different. Different
>> enough, in fact, that program transfer between the two involves, as a
>> minimum, several formidable tasks.
>
>Alright, so it can be done, even if it's difficult for characters to do, on
>the fly, in the wild. That doesn't mean that Naasirka scientists with a
>multi-million credit budget couldn't do it for you. In other words, it
>doesn't answer the question of why "robot brains" aren't used in the
>Imperium.
>
>> Modern day analogies often help to explain why things in
>> MegaTraveller are the way they are, so let's look at an analogy.
>
>Ugh... my eye always twitches when I see someone revving up the ol' analogy.
>He's right, though. Analogies are handy. How about this one?
>
>It would involve several formidable tasks for me to build an automobile from
>scratch. However, automobile companies turn out many, many units each day.
>
>> Consider the most advanced automobiles on the road today. They
>> incorporate several microprocessors. Are the programs in
Hmm. Although guilty of using an analogy myself I think the "automobile
processor" one might be a rather poor one. I see starship computers
rather as being similar to the sort of distributed control system one
finds on modern manufacturing plant. Lots of discrete processors
distributed about the plant (ship) connected together and communicating
at need. Units which are basically identical to robot brains might be
included in the set-up as units, but many units (including the ones that
run power and life support, on any ship *I* might travel in) would be
pure deterministic processors. Robotic/synaptic units might generate
jump vectors - though even with skill programmed in a really experienced
sophont pilot might contribute to the process, helping set starting
search areas and de-selecting some criteria as unlikely to interfere in
this particular plot. The *result* of this calculation would very
likely be checked for compliance with constraints by an independent
computer; preferably one with a totally different architecture (to
eliminate any possible common cause error). Law may well also require
that the result be checked by a qualified pilot. The "passed" result
would finally be sent to other units to be converted into instructions,
set points and so on for the /other/ units which run the jump drive,
reactors, engines etc., etc.
The question of whether one can programme a starship computer as one
would a robot brain is now moot. You can programme a bit of a starship
computer that looks indistinguishable from a robot brain (because
basically it is one) just as you would a robot brain. That does not
mean that you can use a robot brain to run a starship, or vice versa.
The "thinking" units may be functionally identical, but the other units
(in particular the real-time units in direct control of the hardware)
will be totally different in architecture, physical design, programming
and I/O setup. Using robot parts to run a ship would mean totally
dismantling the robot and wiring the control modules into the ship,
meanwhile totally re-programming them. And you would need quite a few
average robots before you had enough bits to do the job. Basically, why
bother? As for Naasirka; their engineers have already developed a set
of "robot" modules and brain units suitable for starship operation.
They called it a "ships computer".
Why have ships crews? Look at the effect computer control has had on
manufacturing plant. It has reduced the number of operators. It has
not eliminated them - nor do I think it ever will, totally. The reasons
are part practical (a human being is a most remarkable unit - adaptable,
resourceful and capable of incredible leaps of logic/intuition) part
psychological (I want to be served by a *waiter*, not tin-man and I feel
a lot happier if there's a friendly - or even unfriendly - face in the
engine room, too).
>Basically, this is a *really* bad handwave, and it seems to create just as
>many problems as Joe set out to solve in the first place.
>
Well, I don't think so. Rather sparsely explained, maybe, but quite
plausible if you have seen how, for example, a modern chemical plant is
controlled. On a hazardous plant the analogy is particularly good - the
sort of error checking and redundancy one sees there would be
appropriate on any starship I would feel comfortable on...
Cheers,
Andy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 20:42:44 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
>With Pyramid I can easily sort the
>articles to useful sub-directories and even search for specific subjects.
>Much easier than a paper magazine.
>
>To quote Dr. Egon Spengler "Print is dead."
>
>Terry C
How long have you been doing this sort of thing?
Serious question: I've got several _large_ databases that only survive in
print form, because the software I created them in is no longer available,
or the disks have died, or I no longer have a computer that can read them.
I've been using a computer since before Traveller was published, so I'm
extremely aware of just how short the life of digital data is, and how
little I want to be bothered recopying my data every few years to stay
technically current.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:01:31 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Robot Brains vs Starship Computers
Dear Folks -
Had a look through _Book 8: Robots_ and _101 Robots_ last night.
There is an *experimental* TL 15 Ship's Boat pilot in there, costing approx
MCr5.5. It has Ship's Boat-4 plus a few other things. No Pilot skill, tho'. ;-)
The interesting one is the Bruiser at MCr5.6. I think the DGP guys liberally
borrowed from other publications such as the Hiver module. From memory, Hiver
electronics are 80% of the size and 50% of the price of comparable Imperial
gear. Can anyone correct me on that (no, surprisingly, I _don't_ own the Hiver
module - although one of my friends does, hmmm)?
For those who said they want robots everywhere, take your players through Hiver
space.
Comments on Will's design are below:
>URP: 52202-74-RP325-5HF5 Cr1,277,195 1,277,195 kg
Wow, MCr 1.2 for a robot. Maybe paying a pilot, navigator, and sensor operator
is more economical?
BTW, the max Int for a TL 13 robot is A (10) not F - see Robots p 39. You'll
have to reduce the number of skills, or add more brain so that the thing can
learn. There should be a bracketed figure representing the max Edu the robot can
attain. Currently it should be 5(F).
One thing you should all take note of: the brain costs MCr1.25, while the entire
rest of the robot costs MCr0.02.
Brains don't come cheap. Generally. Too bad if they go wrong. $$$ ;-P
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:27:24 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: Magazine indexes
At 17:05 -0500 7/2/00, "J. Paul Sanders" wrote:
>(Journal of the Senseless Carnage Society, etc.). You'd need to contact Jae
>regarding copies of Signal-GK (he is on the TML), but I'd be willing to
>make copies of the other material for whoever wrote the original post above
>in about two weeks time if you'll contact me at: timmon@primenet.com
Tim Collinson's volume 2 of the Traveller Bibliography is intended to
include magazines IIRC.
>Just a minor update on the Keith Supplements - I have the material back
>from the printer and am about 1/2 done with the binding (bound over 100
>books yesterday alone). Once I am done with the binding they'll be going
>back to the printer for trimming and then I'll package 'em and mail 'em.
Great news - looking forward to them.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:32:14 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: RE: Full Thrust
At 17:05 -0500 7/2/00, "Trevor, Peter" wrote:
>You mean its not going to be a BITS product (complete with AHL
>miniatures) on this year's trade stand? Bummer! Okay, can you
>email me a copy?
I wish. I know GZG may have been interested in Traveller minis but we
didn't pursue that.
As to a BITS product, FT Traveller is my baby and I really have at
least two other BITS projects which are higher priority. I can see me
looking at it again, but the spinal mount issue vs effect of missiles
etc needs resolving (maybe with a table).
This refers to the issue that FT weapons tend to grind away starships
and Spinals are currently less lethal than HG.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:34:44 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
At 17:05 -0500 7/2/00, "Douglas E. Berry" wrote:
>Dpeaking of authors, I had the chance to show Poul Anderson _First In_
>(which is dedicated to him) at last year's BayCon. I mentioned that the
>book had a detailed system generation system and he suddenly looked like a
>kid who was just told that Santa died on the lawn and his bag was still
>there..
I mentioned the First In stuff to CJ Cherryh, who seemed interested
and mentioned she knew SJ.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 14:37:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
In mail you write:
>> > "Well, we can't figure out, scientifically, why people believe in
>> > deities. It must be an emotional need."
>>
>> It's not even that. One thing the Soviet system *did* manage to do
>> was give us a significant sample of folks living quite happily
>> *without* a belief in dieties or an afterlife.
>
> I might agree, but only to some extent. The Russian-Orthodox Church was
> still around, Icons were still used and crafted and ceremonies were still
> conducted.
>
> I'd also like to point out the fact that displayed relics, the preserved
> bodies of saints, were at the center of Russian-Orthodox religion. I hardly
> need to point out that Stalin ordered Lenin's body to be preserved and put
> on display. I may need to point out that Stalin had trained for the
> Russian-Orthodox priesthood in his youth.
>
> And, while the Communist ideology may not have outwardly believed in life
> after death, they believed in Communism after death; Lenin retained his
> membership in the party in death.
I was very careful *not* to claim that this was the belief of the
majority. r even of a *large* minority. But it's quite clear that
significant numbers of people who grew up in the USSR *did* lack a
belief in God or an afterlife and didn't miss them.
They Communist didn't even come close to wiping out religion and
religious belief. But they *did* produce that sociologically
significant group of "non-religious" people.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:20:14 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
Dear Folks -
Leonard said:
>In case you haven't seen the post someone else made, try this...
>
>three *sharp* golf tees placed with the "heads" forming a triangle and
>the points outward.
Point up (like the original Klingon ;-) or point down?
OK, we've got that, now someone draw and scan and post it somewhere.
What was this for, again?
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:25:58 -0600
From: Ron Brown
Subject: Re: SETI@home monthly report
Check the Traveller Downport news page. We have a team.
Cynthia Higginbotham wrote:
> Ron Brown said:
>
> Team? What team? I just downloaded the Linux client from the
> SETI@Home site a while back, logged on, got set up, and have
> been running daily uploads & downloads ever since.
>
> Was is Das Team?
>
> --C.
>
> > Which team are you a part of?
> >
> > Ron Brown
> > System Administrator
> > Traveller Downport
> >
> > Cynthia Higginbotham wrote:
> >
> > > SD Mooney said:
> > > > At 4:18 +0000 2/2/00, "Chuck Morford" wrote:
> > > > >I'm the new member of the team. I have 3 machines working 24/7 on the
> > > > >SETI@Home project and should be able to process 4 to 6 data blocks per day.
> > > >
> > > > I've got a single PPC 603e 200MHz running whenever I'm not using the
> > > > Mac - it's taking about forty hours CPU time to process a block, so
> > > > it takes 3-4 days realistically.
> > > >
> > > That's odd, it only takes my 200MHz Pentium server about 10 hours
> > > to process a work block. Sounds like the PPC client needs a little
> > > optimizing...
> > >
> > > --Cynthia
> > >
> > > --
> > > (To be filled in with something clever or really dumb someday..)
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
> >
>
> --
> (To be filled in with something clever or really dumb someday..)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:26:08 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: old SF for ideas
Dear Folks -
Leonard wrote:
>They are also reprinting James. H. Schmitz's Telzey Amberdon stories...
>
>The first story... has an alien species that *has* to be introduced
>to Traveller (Baluit crest cats).
Actually, the thing I was going to throw at the PCs is the teleporting psi-beast
hunter... I scanned the cover of one book, and hope to use it.
(best whimsical Pasty Biscoe voice) "And children... here's a picture..." !!!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:36:13 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Dear Folks -
John posted
>* Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Hmmm, how about 5FW War Syndrome? After all, constantly thinking your grenade
pin is about to be pulled and that Zhos are about to "drop in" suddenly must
increase the already-heighted stress levels quite a bit, no? And any
pharmacological (thanks for the word, Rob) measures taken to protect troops from
possible chemical attacks would not be too kind on Vilani personnel, don't you
think?
[As I understand it, these are the 2 chief causes of Gulf War Syndrome]
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:37:45 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Urban Legends
Dear Folks -
Daniel Phelps told us a short story (there _is_ a Droyne involved ;-):
>That said I've a Traveller story to share. Man walks into a little Star
>Port curio shop...
Another for the Silly Era, Doug?
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:41:56 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Dear Folks -
Danny said:
>A description of a standard military ration pack - like MRE's were described
>in T2K.
Strewth, cut-and-paste Loren's restaurant-like critique! No problems with
copyright there!! ;-)
(Challenge 26, from memory)
- - Hyphen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 15:42:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
>From: Michel Vaillancourt
> The concept of a bullet impact hitting hard enough to
>knock someone down on impact force alone is, on evaluation, not
>possible. One of Newton's Laws says that pushing one way at a
>certain force requires pushing equally in the opposite
>direction. So, for a bullet to have enough energy to knock
>a man down by impact forces alone implies that it must have
>enough *recoil* to knock the *firer* down.
Rocket assisted munitions don't apply (much) recoil to the
firer. You get a little little recoil getting the round out of
the chamber, then the rocket pushes its burning fuel in one
direction and the round in the other. Could a snub pistol round
knock down the target? RAM grenade?
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 14:45:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1874
In mail you write:
> ObTrav:
> Back in the days when personal honor was relevant, wasn't it standard
> that a prisoner of war would swear on his honor not to make trouble
> for his captors?
Not exactly. If you "gave your parole", you were swearing not to make
trouble, etc in return for being allowed a moderate amount of freedom
to wander around the place. You did not *have* to give your parole. And
you *could* take it back. That is, you could inform the officer in
charge that you found it necessary to take back your parole, and he'd
have a soldier escort you back to the "holding cell" for those who
*hadn't* given parole (which tended to be where *all* the prisoners
spent the night).
And only officers were considered capable of giving their parole.
> In a mercenary-fought action, it might be perfectly reasonable to
> trust a captured opponent with your rifle - you and he might be
> hired by the same side next month!
In many historical setups, you were allowed to "ransom" priosoners or
you could even just send them back after getting an oath not to fight
against you again.
This sort of thing could happen with merc units. Captured troops are
recorded, and repatriated. The merc group can, (if they are big enough)
hire these out for some war *elsewhere*. As long as it doesn't involve
an ally of the folks that released them, it's a "win" all around.
The side that captured them doesn't have to waste resources on keeping
them in POW camps. The Merc outfit gets to hire them out elsewhere. And
the merc gets to earn money elsewhere instead of collecting "POW" pay.
Smaller merc groups may just release the prisoners from contract so
they can hire on with a group that's fighting elsewhere.
To help clarify this, if you were a "German" captured on the Western
Front, you couldn't be sent to the Eastern Front, because you'd just be
fighting a different part of the same alliance.
But if you were a "British" troop captured in the US, you could be used
against Napoleon after release, since the Us *wasn't* allied with him.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:10:27 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Next CD
In a message dated 2/7/00 2:07:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Volker Greimann
> Subject: Re: Magazine indexes
>
> At 18:51 07.02.00 , you wrote:
>
> > > Starburst is on the HIWG CD I believe. Kfan Uzargou can be had from
> >Roger
> > >Myhre (cc'ed to his old address) and might probably be on the next
version of
> > >the CD. I'm not sure about the other two offhand. Paul Sanders might
have
> > >them or their indexes at a guess.
>
> >When will the next version be out, anyway?
Either the end of the year or early next year. It'll probably be two CD's
also I expect unless I use compression.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:17:34
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Urban Legends
At 10:37 AM 2/8/2000 +1000, you wrote:
>Dear Folks -
>
>Daniel Phelps told us a short story (there _is_ a Droyne involved ;-):
>>That said I've a Traveller story to share. Man walks into a little Star
>>Port curio shop...
>
>Another for the Silly Era, Doug?
Yeah, but I'd change the punch line.
"Screw the story, ya got any statues of blonds, about 5' 7", 36-24-35 in
this place?"
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:39:54 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: ? (Was: Re: )
Someone wrote:
I have been *yelled* at for using HTML because it messes up
the digest. Perhaps those of you who get digests could do
me the courtesy of making sure to add the subject to your
posts, so that I might have some hope of figuring out where
they belong in the scheme of things.
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.2
GIT dpu s+:+>++: a >- C++$ U? P+ L? E? W+++ N o? K? w(+) O? V? PS+(+++)
PE++ Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X(+) R+++ tv+ b++ DI++++ D G e~++ h r y+(-)
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:52:08 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Nazis and Solomani (was Re: Instant Zombie Bullets?)
From: Joseph R. Dietrich
> ObTrav: Are there any worlds in your Imperium that resemble Nazi Germany
> during the 30s and 40s, either in ideology or action? Or perhaps some
polity
> that has started a local war of conquest on the fringes of the 3I? How
> fascist are the Solomani anyway? Do you see the potential for them to take
> human supremacy (or even Solomani supremacy) to the point of xenocide?
Did you mean genocide, the complete and utter destruction
of a species? Or did you actually mean xenocide, the
complete and utter destruction of everything not Solomani?
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.2
GIT dpu s+:+>++: a >- C++$ U? P+ L? E? W+++ N o? K? w(+) O? V? PS+(+++)
PE++ Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X(+) R+++ tv+ b++ DI++++ D G e~++ h r y+(-)
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1879
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Traveller-digest Monday, February 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1880
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: JTAS Online
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: More RealWorld(tm) Far Tech For Traveller
Re: CharGen & World Generation Rules
Re: MT manuals: no more available
Galaxy Rangers
Re: Ground Forces Sidebars (was: Honey, I'm home!!!!)
Re: Magazine indexes
Poul Anderson (was Re: JTAS copyright)
Re: OT Religion and Communism
Re : Penetrating trauma
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1879
Re: SETI@home monthly report
Re: OT Religion and Communism (was re: Computers and Technology IYTU)
Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
MegaTraveller Rules
Re: Magazine indexes
Re: MegaTraveller rules
FW: Aliens and Meat (LONG)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:18:12 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
- -----Original Message-----
From: Robert Prior
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: 07 February 2000 23:10
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
>>With Pyramid I can easily sort the
>>articles to useful sub-directories and even search for specific subjects.
>>Much easier than a paper magazine.
>>
>>To quote Dr. Egon Spengler "Print is dead."
>>
>>Terry C
>
>How long have you been doing this sort of thing?
>
>Serious question: I've got several _large_ databases that only survive in
>print form, because the software I created them in is no longer available,
>or the disks have died, or I no longer have a computer that can read them.
>
>I've been using a computer since before Traveller was published, so I'm
>extremely aware of just how short the life of digital data is, and how
>little I want to be bothered recopying my data every few years to stay
>technically current.
Well if you save the text as, well... text... it's pretty much future
proofed, and I don't think bmp's will disappear as a graphic format for
quite a while...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:20:12 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
re the subject:
"Stop - in the name of major wounds"
Isn't he out-ranked by General Hit Point Loss?
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:25:41 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: More RealWorld(tm) Far Tech For Traveller
>ObTrav: Anyone remember the personal re-entry kits
>from MT? Now you can use something similar for cargo,
>saving landing time and fees.
>David
Probably my favourite TravGizmo, the ultimate bailout. That thing
features in everyone of my games!
Jim.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:13:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: CharGen & World Generation Rules
In mail you write:
> Okay, so I had a thought. Perhaps we could use an
> extended world generation system akin to the MT chargen
> system.
>
> First, you roll up the physical stats of the world (and
> the system if you like). World size, atmosphere,
> hydrosphere. Or you pick a world you know and love.
>
> Then, you randomly roll a colonization group and the time
> frame they're colonizing in (what Milieu?). You select
> what their development goals are, and use the proper tables
> to determine what happens.
Worlds may have "native" populations, as well. This needs to be
accounted for. Also, just because your species eveloved there *doesn't*
mean that on-world conditions are"ideal" for you. All that's required
is a "point" (small area) that is "good" or at least "tolerable"
conditions.
> The population is affected by the world physical stats,
> and events affect the world in general (natural or wartime
> cataclysms, additional colony groups, technological
> breakthroughs, trade). The starport is built, upgraded,
> downgraded, or destroyed. The planet joins (or leaves)
> the Imperium ... or the Imperium collapses, if you choose
> one of the Bad Milieux.
Sounds good.
> Since world "generation" is a slow process, a small measure
> of terraforming may be feasible... or probably not. At
> any rate, by the time you reach the stats of the world for
> a milieu you recognize, the world generation is done.
Keep in mind the fact that while world *size* is fixed, both Atmosphere
and Hydro *can* change over this sort of timescale. Hydro is likely to
change mostly as a side effect of Atm changes. Atm changes are *mostly*
going to be losses, though under the right (wrong) circumstances you
can get an increase in pressure (Venus type runaway Greenhouse, for
example, bakes the CO2 out of surface rocks for a *major* increase in
surface pressure).
Stuff like temp/climate is even *more* subject to change.
> Thus, when you're done, you know the world's history.
> And that understanding adds depth when your players land
> on it and start to look around.
> Well what do you think? I got the idea from T4's
> _Pocket Empires_, but I prefer a process more akin to
> MT's chargen system.
It sort of ties in with an idea I had a long time back. Climate and
vegetation affect each other. So, given an initial distribution of
vegetation over a world, you ought to be able to "model" the resulting
weather. And eventually things will settle down... (actually, they
*could* interact in some sort of complex cycles, but that's *way* too
messy).
Alas, it'd take a computer program to do a good job. But maybe some
rough rules for what sort of "biome" belongs where on planets could be
done.
The ideal would be a program where you put in the planetary parameters,
and it the helped you sketch out the landforms and biomes, and ran them
thru a few thousand to a few million years of weather and the like.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 01:26:41 -0000
From: "Derrick Jones"
Subject: Re: MT manuals: no more available
Erwin,
could I please ask that you would consider requesting more permission
from Marc re this subject? If only to allow those of us who receive the
digest version, and who were actually asleep in our beds at the time
of posting (due to unfortunate geographical positioning) (or in my case,
simply out enjoying an evening of Traveller with my friends, and being in
no fit state to plough my e-mail on my return.) It also disadvantages those
of us without permanent connections to the net, or for whom the cost of
downloading their mail is nil.
It just seems somewhat unfair, and somewhat elitist. Maybe at least
you could arrange some different way of deciding who gets them for
the next time you do it?
OK, accepted that there has to be a limit, and that I could always scan
in my own (as a matter of fact, my gaming group owns 5 copies of the
core MT rules), but if someone already has done the task, I know I'd rather
not. It would make travelling to game sessions much easier, just taking
my laptop.
OK, this whinging pommie has said his piece, and I apologise for my
frustrated outburst.
Yours
Derrick
Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar
>Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:45:30 -0700
>From: Erwin Fritz
>Subject:
>Many people apparently missed my posting to the TML yesterday about the
>distribution of the Word-format MT rules.
>The vacancies on my list filled up very quickly, and I sent out the
>copies yesterday afternoon. There are no more copies to distribute.
>- --
>Erwin Fritz
>Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
>http://www.glja.com
Derrick Jones
St Helens
Lancashire UK
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 01:18:06 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Galaxy Rangers
Just saw an old videotape of the 80´s series Galaxy Rangers.
I noticed, once again, how some elements, stations, and spacecraft
had a very Travellerish design. I´ll see if i can dig up a few scans
to show you what i mean. Anybody else here liked that
series?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 01:26:08 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Ground Forces Sidebars (was: Honey, I'm home!!!!)
At 13:49 07.02.00 , Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>At 10:40 AM 2/7/2000 EST, you wrote:
>
> >YEAH; a write up of the Imperal Guard would be VERY nice...
>
>Did they appear in detail anywhere but TD#9?
Ah, the memories:
TD 9 was the first Traveller Zine I ever bought and the one mag that pushed
me over the edge from beeing a player to being a hard-core fan. I just
loved that issue (still have it, wrapped in plastic). Sometimes i take it
out to have some friends worship it, but usually, it just stays
wrapped.This mag was what primarily sold me for DGP´s books...
...Woe to us and Traveller that such a great company is now owned by a
B*stard like R. (spit) S. I sometimes wish the great names of DGP would
come out of their hiding and pick up where thy left off. The GT universe
must be somewhat like what they felt was missing from TNE, when they left.
Come back, great old ones: FUGATE FUGATE FUGATE! (Maybe chanting the name
thrice helps)
Sleepless in Germany.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 01:30:51 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Magazine indexes
At 23:17 07.02.00 , you wrote:
>*DROOL*! Um..if you should just happen to mistakenly make an
>extra copy, I'll be happy to take the little problem off your
>hands. Just let me know.
(Grin) I think we all would like copies...
Maybe some kind soul could try to get permission, scan those issues in
their entirety and put them up in pdf, or something similar. Or we organize
a copy-chain (Someone makes the first batch of copies, sends them on to the
next ones on the list, who makes new copies, etc.)
(Yep, sometimes i live in a little fantasy world)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 20:39:08 EST
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Poul Anderson (was Re: JTAS copyright)
In a message dated 2/7/00 4:15:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:
> Dpeaking of authors, I had the chance to show Poul Anderson _First In_
> (which is dedicated to him) at last year's BayCon. I mentioned that the
> book had a detailed system generation system and he suddenly looked like a
> kid who was just told that Santa died on the lawn and his bag was still
> there..
>
> We ended up playing with the numbers for about half an hour. He seemed
> impressed, and appreciated having the dedication.
I make it a general rule not to write to or otherwise pester the authors I
particularly admire, unless I have legitimate business to discuss. I
*hate* the thought of being a "fan-boy."
I always intended to dedicate _First In_ to Mr. Anderson, though. My
debt to him in general and as a writer is considerable. So I wrote to
him long before the book appeared, to ask his permission to make the
dedication. He was as gracious as you might expect. I sent him one
of my author's copies once the book was in print.
I'd heard at second-hand about CJ Cherryh's reaction too. And Steve
White sent me a couple of letters care of SJG, with comments and
suggestions. Several of the extant errata are due to him, and if/when
I get around to writing some JTAS articles to supplement the book
the first couple will deal with subjects he raised.
All of this was rather unexpected and quite gratifying.
- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty
set of people who will take offense at it."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 20:51:30 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: OT Religion and Communism
But Jens, that takes ALL the fun out of being religious : being able to
slaughter the infidels and convert everyone else! Muahahahaha!
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jens Rydholm"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: OT Religion and Communism
>
> As far as I am concerned, anyone can have any religious belief they
> want, as long as they do not harm another person or try to force their
> beliefs on someone not willing to accept them.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:44:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re : Penetrating trauma
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
>Subject: Re: Re : Penetrating trauma (was : OT Technical stuff
>about guns)
>I can't speak from personal knowledge, the only person I was
>ever with that was shot neither fell down, suffered hydro
>(dynamic/static/or whatever you want to call it) shock or
>died. My father discharged a 12 gauge shotgun with the barrel
>resting on his boot...no it *wasn't* a smart thing to do.
Are we related? My father once tried to get grass clippings out
of a running lawn mower with his hand -- glad it was his left.
Since moving out of my parents' home, I've always lived in
apartments or just hired someone else to mow the lawn. I
haven't mown a lawn since I was 18, except for my parents', when
I've visited them in summer (come to think of it, I usually
visit them in winter!).
Anyway, you were saying,
>Here's the thing though, getting stabbed, shot, or punched for
> that matter *hurts*, and I don't know about you, but when I
> get hurt I'm apt to jump or jerk. If I'm walking, I'm apt to
>fall down or stagger back. So is it the kinetic energy of the
>blow? Nah, not usually. It was your own body reacting to the
>injury. I'd bet that stopping power relates more to doing
>enough painful damage to make the victum's body react than
>anything else.
The elements of getting an opponent down seem to be either pain
or, if you will, engineering (i.e., making it physically
impossible to stand up). Kinetic energy seems the least
effective way to take someone down. Let me address this a
little from my own martial arts perspective.
High level practitioners of hapkido will hit pressure points for
the purpose of interfering with the opponent's nervous system.
This can kill or incapacitate. The opponent will fall, but not
from kinetic energy.
At lower levels, we take opponents down in just a couple of
ways: we get a joint lock that hurts and apply it too quickly
for the opponent to do anything other than follow; or we sweep a
leg (or both) out from under; or we put ourselves below the
opponent's center of gravity, lift, and then throw, flip, or
drop.
It's probably possible to knock an opponent over with a kick to
the center of the body. The kick might, however, just break the
sternum or spine, which would cause a fall from other reasons.
Kinetic knock downs seem to work best when the person doing the
knocking down is using an appropriate weapon. My father's 1961
Cadillac would be my preferred weapon, although his 1984
Oldsmobile Regency '98 would also do. Unfortunately, neither
are accessible, so I'd better reserve knock-down situations to
Traveller (my Nissan being likely to get hurt as much as my
opponent).
>If the injury doesn't "hurt" and being boozed up or drugged out
>probably goes a long way to making most anything hurt less.
So if the opponent is anaestheticized, his or her ability to
stand must be removed -- like by a leg sweep.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:42:47 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1879
>>>
I wish. I know GZG may have been interested in Traveller minis but we
didn't pursue that.
As to a BITS product, FT Traveller is my baby and I really have at
least two other BITS projects which are higher priority. I can see me
looking at it again, but the spinal mount issue vs effect of missiles
etc needs resolving (maybe with a table).
This refers to the issue that FT weapons tend to grind away starships
and Spinals are currently less lethal than HG.
Dom
<<<
I did look at this. I would like to have a FT veriosn that covers the PC range
ships (100dt to 10,000dt), as this is my pefered scale for Trav. Here the
weapons scaling actually works well, and the FT list is designing a super beam
that can be used for bay/spinal weapons.
Full scale Trav:FT could be fun, but the 100dt Free Trader would be lucky to
have 3 theshold boxes....
If there is an interest, I could set up a onelist discussion, where we can
possably do one for BITS publication (I have asked Jon Tuffley what he thought
of BITS doing a Trav FT, he seems ok with this, but if we do this, we should put
some effort to ensure he is happy with the product, even if the system is
published free).
A am a FT grognard, so HG/BL/BR grognards would be helpfull.
Darryl
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 21:11:09 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: SETI@home monthly report
As of this post I've completed 97 units on my computer. Not part of any
team.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Brown"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: SETI@home monthly report
> Check the Traveller Downport news page. We have a team.
>
> Cynthia Higginbotham wrote:
>
> > Ron Brown said:
> >
> > Team? What team? I just downloaded the Linux client from the
> > SETI@Home site a while back, logged on, got set up, and have
> > been running daily uploads & downloads ever since.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:02:53 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: OT Religion and Communism (was re: Computers and Technology IYTU)
At 06:53 PM 2/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>It's not even that. One thing the Soviet system *did* manage to do
was
>>give us a significant sample of folks living quite happily
*without* a
>>belief in dieties or an afterlife.
>>
>
>I've read and somewhat agree with the argument that this aspect of
the
>Soviet system replaced religious dogma with political dogma, for
similar
>purpose and to similar effect. I've heard it identified as a
religion
>without a god (unless the diefication of the leader of the moment
>counted), carefully disguised so as to trap those who emotionally
needed
>a religious system but had intellectually rebelled against the idea.
Incidentally, I've gathered they didn't actually replace religious
beliefs, merely drove them underground. Once the communists fell,
many ... including a large number of younger people *raised* as
atheists ... began returning to religion.
- -- Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft
product.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:53:50 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
First of all, thanks for the responses.
> From: Robert James Eaglestone
> It can happen much quicker with rules other than in the OTU. However,
> in order to keep the Imperial economy from getting out of balance,
> I'd put terraforming Mars at the 100-year level as a minimum.
Yeah. The 100-year level feels about right. I was hoping that I could
justify something a little shorter though. Maybe I should start with
something a little more Earthlike, although Mars-type worlds feel like a
good common category of junk world.
My game is an expansion from Earth setting, so it doesn't actually have an
Imperial economy to unbalance. In fact, I'm trying to handwave
colonisation as something that is being done on the cheap, so that it
doesn't swallow up too many resources that could otherwise be spent on
ensuring that everyone in Burkina Faso has access to anagathics.
The real secret of my game is that I'm trying to emphasise the social
changes, rather than the technological ones. At the same time, I'm keeping
a reasonably high rate of technological advancement, to show that this
isn't a period of economic stagnation. So I'm trying to put the game in
the relatively near future to ensure that the technological changes don't
get out of hand. Having to explain what happens in the century or so when
the terraforming is happening is a pain. But I want open-sky colonies, not
can/dome colonies....
And settling worlds with indigenous life is "bad science", which tends to
rule out most of the worlds that would normally be considered habitable.
Interesting handwaves mostly snipped:
> Change atmosphere : (WS * WS * WS * 10) Years
....
> Mars is a size 4 world?
Umm, I think so. Doesn't really matter though. The result here is 640
years - which tends to break my assumptions down. Damn.
I could use a "pre-biological Earth" nitrogen atmosphere world instead of a
Mars. Maybe if I use nanotech Von Neumann machines to force changes in the
oxygen/nitrogen/carbon dioxide proportions I could say that the
"terraforming" performed by life on Earth could occur at a much faster
rate, and set it at a couple for decades. It would still take a fair while
for such a catastrophic change to settle down to a (relatively) stable
pattern, I suspect.
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
> Of course, the RIGHT asteroid and/or comet could speed up or drastically
> alter the whole process. Some examples from SF: "Thunder Strike" by
> Michael McCollum, "Heart of the Comet" by Benford & Brin, "Protector" by
> Larry Niven, and the, uh, "landing" at the end of Alien: Ressurection.
True. It feels a little brute force for what I'm after though. But
re-reading my last paragraph about the nanotech Von Neumann machines, I'm
quite prepared to use brute force....
I guess what I should do is not stress too much, and say "It just
happened". Who cares what the world was like before it was settled.
Oh - and I had a look through the Kim Stanley Robinson Mars books
yesterday. He seems to handwave a breathable atmosphere fairly quickly. I
haven't actually read them, (as opposed to skimming them) - are they any
good? (He seems to have beanstalks!)
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:40:18 PST
From: "Micah Borer"
Subject: MegaTraveller Rules
I'm interested in getting the MegaTraveller rule set. yes I have the books
and all so that's not a problem. What all do you need from me?
Micah
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 13:49:30 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Magazine indexes
Dear Folks -
Paul said:
> Just a minor update on the Keith Supplements...
Thanks for posting these updates, Paul. I'll now be able to refrain from
speeding to the PO box each day, hoping I'll find a package within... (for a
while, anyway!)
Will you let us know when the actual postings happen?
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 18:07:44 -0500
From: "Michael Peters"
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller rules
Erwin,
Please place my name on your list.
To the TML: Sorry for the bandwith, I couldn't find erwin's private email
address.
Mike Peters
Travelleri@home.com
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Erwin Fritz
To: Traveller Mailing List
Cc: Marc Miller
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 5:15 PM
Subject: MegaTraveller rules
> Once again, Marc Miller has let me send out copies of my Word-formatted
> MegaTraveller rules. I'm allowed to send out 12 copies this year. I have
> three names on my list, and am looking for nine more interested people.
> Erwin Fritz
> Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
> http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:07:38 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: FW: Aliens and Meat (LONG)
Dear Folks -
This just in from the guy who plays Ervmisbe, don't know quite how OT it is, but
it is interesting (although weird...)
========================================
Imagine if you will... the leader of the "fifth scout force" speaking to the
commander-in-chief...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"They're made out of meat."
"Meat?"
"Meat. They're made out of meat."
"Meat?"
"There's no doubt about it. We picked several from different parts of the
planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through.
They're completely meat."
"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the
stars."
"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them.
The signals come from machines."
"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."
"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the
machines."
"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to
believe in sentient meat."
"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient
race in the sector and they're made out of meat."
"Maybe they're like the Orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that
goes through a meat stage."
"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of
their life spans, which didn't take too long. Do you have any idea the life
span of meat?"
"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the Weddilei.
A meat head with an electron plasma brain
inside."
"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the Weddilei.
But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."
"No brain?"
"Oh, there is a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of
meat!"
"So... what does the thinking?"
"You're not understanding, are you? The brain does the thinking. The
meat."
"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"
"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The
meat is the whole deal! Are you getting the picture?"
"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."
"Finally, Yes. They are indeed made out meat. And they've been trying to
get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."
"So what does the meat have in mind?"
"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the
universe, contact other sentients, swap ideas and information. The usual."
"We're supposed to talk to meat?"
"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello.
Anyone out there? Anyone home?' That sort of thing."
"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"
"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."
"I thought you just told me they used radio."
"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how
when you slap or flap meat it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their
meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their
meat."
"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"
"Officially or unofficially?"
"Both."
"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all
sentient races or multibeings in the quadrant, without prejudice, fear, or
favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the
whole thing."
"I was hoping you would say that."
"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact
with meat?"
"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? "`Hello, meat. How's it
going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"
"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but
they can't live on them. And being meat, they only travel through C space.
Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their
ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."
"So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe."
"That's it."
"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who
have been aboard our vessels, the ones you have probed? You're sure they
won't remember?"
"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and
smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."
"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's
dream."
"And we can mark this sector unoccupied."
"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others?
Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"
"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class
nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotation ago, wants to
be friendly again."
"They always come around."
"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe
would be if one were all alone."
========================================
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1880
***********************************
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, February 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1881
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re Mercs in History
[none]
re: Choice of Law
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1880
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1880
Re: Computers and Technology
Re: Computers and Technology
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Online Traveller Game (PBeM/LiveTime)?
New UPP idea!
Re: JTAS Online
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
New mailing list : Traveller_FullThrust!!!
Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
Re: OT Religion and Communism
Re: JTAS Online
Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:11:00 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Mercs in History
>
>> In a mercenary-fought action, it might be perfectly reasonable to
>> trust a captured opponent with your rifle - you and he might be
>> hired by the same side next month!
>
>In many historical setups, you were allowed to "ransom" priosoners or
>you could even just send them back after getting an oath not to fight
>against you again.
In some cases (Esp. North Italian city states), it was often considered
more expedient to simply execute those who wouldn't take the offer to
switch sides... after their compatriots who had were sent off to a
different front. See Machiavelli for more.
>This sort of thing could happen with merc units. Captured troops are
>recorded, and repatriated. The merc group can, (if they are big enough)
>hire these out for some war *elsewhere*. As long as it doesn't involve
>an ally of the folks that released them, it's a "win" all around.
>
>The side that captured them doesn't have to waste resources on keeping
>them in POW camps. The Merc outfit gets to hire them out elsewhere. And
>the merc gets to earn money elsewhere instead of collecting "POW" pay.
Many mercs got paid for the campaign, provided their unit was at muster.
Not being at muster, even if a POW, was grounds for non-payment.
>Smaller merc groups may just release the prisoners from contract so
>they can hire on with a group that's fighting elsewhere.
>
Treatment of Mercenaries varies by time frame extensively, as well as
Ruler. There was at least one case during the War of the Roses where a
noble would kill the officers of mercenaries he captured, point out that
the soldiers had no officers, and send the mercs off sans weapons. I forget
his name and details; but the premis was that, by being captured, the
officers had committed treason either way (Allowing their unit to fall in
to rebel hands OR fighting for rebels), and thus deserved execution; the
troops, without officers, were no longer under contract.
Keep in mind that Mercs during much of the feudal period were actually
"Regulars" of some house, sent off in exchange for pay, and the men sworn
to the officer; the contract was with the officer, so sans officer means
sans-contract...
Now, Ob Trav: Do you contract with a Merc Officer for "You and X troops",
"You will provide the Xth Merc Regiment", or "You will provide the unit
listed by roster in Appendix A", or "Your corporation shall provide...."?
IMTU, COntracts for mercs are Corporate, and generally for X unit, with
minimu of Y personell, under the following list of officers, plus such
staff as may be needed, for the sum of CrZ. IMTU, A Mercenary Unit
Liscense is a form of Imperial Limited Liability Charter... With the
attendant 1% to the Sector-, Subsector-, and Arch- Duke's as appropriate,
based upon unit registered homeworld, and the 1% each to the Emperor's fief
and the Imperial House. Generally, you also drop 1% to the planetary
baron... in exchange for permission to use his training areas, and be
opfors for his huscarles. But, you also have the obligation to serve in
case of war. The imperial activation has to come through the JTF HQ in the
subsector, but you can be compelled. You also get permission to buy
restricted items (Like ImpMilStd BD, FGMP's, Etc.), and use the Imperial
JIS insignia, suitably differenced.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:52:45 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: [none]
>
>Comments on Will's design are below:
>
>>URP: 52202-74-RP325-5HF5 Cr1,277,195 1,277,195 kg
>
>Wow, MCr 1.2 for a robot. Maybe paying a pilot, navigator, and sensor operator
>is more economical?
>
>BTW, the max Int for a TL 13 robot is A (10) not F - see Robots p 39. You'll
>have to reduce the number of skills, or add more brain so that the thing can
>learn.
Oops. I missed the Int Limit. That will reduce the brain cost. And require
a slight redesign; more storage (to drive up Edu). Since Edu is NOT TL
limited (other than synaptics percentage).
>There should be a bracketed figure representing the max Edu the robot can
>attain. Currently it should be 5(F).
yes it should. I don't personally note that in the string, but as a "Feature".
I'll revise and refit... but it will probably drive up the brain costs.
>One thing you should all take note of: the brain costs MCr1.25, while the
>entire
>rest of the robot costs MCr0.02.
>
And yes, in most cases, for a 40 year lifespan, the only real advantages
over crew are pure-loyalty. You see, you simply have them programmed to be
loyal to you, the owner... Or, the bank might have them programmed to
return to port if 6 months out...
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:13:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Choice of Law
>From: "William F. Hostman"
>Subject: Choice of Law
>So IMTU, Imperial law specifies choice of law precedences...
>from MTU, and I put forward for your perusal and comment:
>The Imperial Litigation Proclimation of 366:
It's "Proclamation", but who knows how they'll be spelling
things hundreds of years from now.
In my Traveller universe, the Imperium doesn't regulate choice
of law, choice of forum, or conflicts of laws. It's not
important enough. Member states set their own rules for these
issues. Entities doing business between member states lobby
(more or less successfully) for sensible rules.
Megacorporations lead this effort.
Megacorporations generally agree to mediate or arbitrate
disputes. Litigation is a last resort. Tradewar is generally
not done between megacorporations, but occurs between smaller
entities or between megacorp and smaller entity.
If megacorps get into litigation, they can generally obtain an
Imperial court as a forum, as the laws governing jurisdiction
over civil disputes are fairly vague to allow the nobility on
the scene to make decisions for the good of the Imperium. The
substantive law will be as agreed in the contract; this tends
not to be an issue between megacorps.
Smaller entities have different problems in interstellar
litigation. Choice of forum becomes a real issue. For example,
the parties might agree that any dispute over the contract could
be heard by any court of appropriate jurisdiction on Regina, but
the Reginan court would look to its own law to see if it had
jurisdiction -- and it's a rare court that allows jurisdiction
to be conferred by agreement of the parties (although that is
normally the rule in arbitration). If it determined that it did
not have jurisdiction, the parties would have to sue elsewhere.
Suppose the contract involved performance on Jewell. The Jewell
court might conclude that because the parties had chosen to have
their dispute heard on Regina, it would not exercise
jurisdiction -- even if the Reginan court had determined that it
could not exercise jurisdiction.
The parties might try to resolve their differences before an
agreed mediator or arbitrator (leading to another contract to be
enforced), or they might just do what PCs do, and say, "meet me
in the garden in front of the Cafe Cipatwe at dawn. Our seconds
will provide swords for two and coffee for one."
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:41:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
In mail you write:
> At 11:30 PM 2/6/2000 EST, Loren wrote:
>
>>More than once. GDW was accused of stealing the Ancients from Fred Pohl and
>>of stealing the Aslan from CJ Cherryh, among other things. Used to happen
>>every few months, back in the bad old days.
>
> Dpeaking of authors, I had the chance to show Poul Anderson _First In_
> (which is dedicated to him) at last year's BayCon. I mentioned that the
> book had a detailed system generation system and he suddenly looked like a
> kid who was just told that Santa died on the lawn and his bag was still
> there..
>
> We ended up playing with the numbers for about half an hour. He seemed
> impressed, and appreciated having the dedication.
Frankly, a *well done* world/system generation book or program that
allowed for both "random" generation and for "tweaking" things (ie "I
need *these* parameters set like so, but don't care about the rest)
would likely sell very well to SF authors! Maybe better than to gamers!
Most SF authors would *love* to have something that did the "grunt
work" and presented them with something they could detail from there.
And even the ones who rather enjoy designing world would likely
appreciate something that they entered the world's stats into and
warned them about inconsistencies, and pointed out interesting
consequences. ("Oh, yeah... there *would* have to be a desert there
because of the wind paterrn and the placement of those mountains....")
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:31:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
In mail you write:
> In a message dated 00-02-04 23:46:35 EST, you write:
>
> << Kagehira@aol.com
> > Well, I had that happen to me with some B5W stuff: asked someone to
> forward
> > it to AoG for me (cause my ISP claimed that their ISP didn't exist) and
> it
> > showed up in a book with credit to the forwarder.
> >
> > I'm not terribly worried about SJG, but if they get bought up then the
> > buyer might not hold to any gentleman's agreements. Which is why the
> > copyright in the sig is a good idea.
>
> It also happened to GDW and/or DGP at least once>>
>
> More than once. GDW was accused of stealing the Ancients from Fred Pohl and
> of stealing the Aslan from CJ Cherryh, among other things. Used to happen
> every few months, back in the bad old days.
>
> Did I ever tell you we heard from Fred Pohl's agent once? Someone was
> sending
> him letters about how we were stealing things left and right. We sent copies
> of everything relevant, and a couple of weeks later got a phone call. Seems
> when Fred finally stopped laughing, he said told his agent to ignore thee
> whole thing.
Having seen Fred at a con once, I can well believe it.
Hell, the *idea* of "The Ancients" most closely maps to Andre Norton's
"Forerunners" as a *concept*. Especially when you consider just *when*
Traveller started.
But other than the idea of "long gone higher tech civilization", the
Ancients and the Forerunners have nothing in common. Frankly, I
*dislike* the idea of "the Ancients" being just *one* civilization.
Even allowing for things like age/composition of stars having an
effect, We should have from 1-100 *million* years of "back history" in
outer arms of the galaxy. That's enough room for *hundreds* of
civilizations to have gotten to the point of at least limited
interstellar expansion and then gone extinct. And some *planets* may
have had multiple civilizations come and go, without ever leaving the
planet or leaving the system.
> Remind me to tell you of the phone calls I used to get from the FBI
> Behavioral Science Unit way back when. Used to bug our receptionist
> no end -- evidently she believed I was some kind of threat to
> national security or something : )
Ok, so tell us about these calls...
:-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:20:09 EST
From: Damage169@cs.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1880
In a message dated 2/7/00 9:12:47 PM Central Standard Time, Leonard Erickson
writes:
<< The ideal would be a program where you put in the planetary parameters,
and it the helped you sketch out the landforms and biomes, and ran them
thru a few thousand to a few million years of weather and the like. >>
Is done, called SimEarth. Not only allows you to modify earth from molten
crust to Mil-Millions of years in future, also allows you to *try* and
terraform Venus and Mars in addition to custom planets. I don't think it's
been updated since it came out about five (?) years ago, though.
Doug (Simon Jester)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:24:09 EST
From: Damage169@cs.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1880
In a message dated 2/7/00 9:12:47 PM Central Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
<< Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 01:18:06 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Galaxy Rangers
Just saw an old videotape of the 80´s series Galaxy Rangers.
I noticed, once again, how some elements, stations, and spacecraft
had a very Travellerish design. I´ll see if i can dig up a few scans
to show you what i mean. Anybody else here liked that
series?
>>
Loved the series, even though it was very toyetic (characters/vehicles easily
adapted to mass-marketing as action figures, etc.).
Any idea where I can get copies of the tapes?
Doug (Simon Jester) Damage169@cs.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:28:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>Subject: Re: Computers and Technology
>My image of the Imperium has always been rather Victorian.
>Since there are not all that many ways to build a free trader,
>style will become important. Brass railings, bass-reliefs in
>the corridors, thick shag carpeting..
Thick shag carpeting in burnt siena and gold; avocado green
handheld commo devices; big clunky lamps in the lounge;
bell-bottoms on crew uniform trousers and long sideburns ....
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:36:24 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology
>>My image of the Imperium has always been rather Victorian.
>>Since there are not all that many ways to build a free trader,
>>style will become important. Brass railings, bass-reliefs in
>>the corridors, thick shag carpeting..
>
>Thick shag carpeting in burnt siena and gold; avocado green
>handheld commo devices; big clunky lamps in the lounge;
>bell-bottoms on crew uniform trousers and long sideburns ....
>--Glenn
Hotchkiss rotating cannons instead of lasers and ether flyers instead of
starships, this would be a great game concept!
Jim
aka Captian Sir Alfred Hamilton, 2nd Meepsori Lancers
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:38:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
>From: "Chris Seamans"
>Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
>I can't give you a link, but I can point you in the direction
>of a book: James Axtell's "The Invasion Within" (Oxford
>University press, I believe).
[deletion]
>As for more information, it's pretty straightforward:
>defections from the early American colonies weren't terribly
>uncommon. They were common enough that laws found their way
>into the law books which prescribed brutal tortures and ignoble
>death for those who would dare to "go native".
I was a history major, with some amount of concentration on
early United States history, so you'd think I could remember
author and/or title, but I can't. Maybe it is Axtell, but
"DeWitt" is what comes into my mind. Well, as Mom says,
vanhatus ei menna yksilaina or something to that effect.
What was I talking about? Oh, yes, it's fairly well accepted by
now that the walls around New England settlements were to keep
the Puritans in, not to keep the Indians out. That started with
the archaeological and historical research of DeWitt or whatever
his name was.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:49:42 -0800
From: "Fred's Email"
Subject: Re: Online Traveller Game (PBeM/LiveTime)?
I was wondering if anyone is holding an Online Traveller game..or would like
to...i'm interested in joining and i feel i should get to know the system
for traveller more...email me if you are playing..or would like to run a
trraveller game
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:54:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: New UPP idea!
>From: "Luther Martin"
>I recently realized the problem with posts on the TML. It's a
>really bad form of *communication* Experts tell us that most,
>probably something like 90% of communication in nonverbal, but
>on the TML all of the nonverbal part goes away. You don't know
>the right context for someone's post, so it's not as useful as
>it could be. To correct this, I came up with the following UPP
>(Universal Poster Profile) consisting of the traditional 6
>stats in the 2d6 range.
Excellent idea! We should make this mandatory!
- --Glenn AB6984
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 23:00:25 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
>>With Pyramid I can easily sort the
>>articles to useful sub-directories and even search for specific subjects.
>>Much easier than a paper magazine.
>>
>>To quote Dr. Egon Spengler "Print is dead."
>>
>>Terry C
>
>How long have you been doing this sort of thing?
>
>Serious question: I've got several _large_ databases that only survive in
>print form, because the software I created them in is no longer available,
>or the disks have died, or I no longer have a computer that can read them.
>
>I've been using a computer since before Traveller was published, so I'm
>extremely aware of just how short the life of digital data is, and how
>little I want to be bothered recopying my data every few years to stay
>technically current.
>
Well I don't have a lot of Traveller material from pre-Windows days, but...
I do have several directories (and a Zip disk) full of uncompleted stories
that I first put to paper (and disk) in my DOS days. Most I converted to
ASCII when I changed software. A few I exported or imported to change from
Wordstar to WordPerfect 5.0 to WP 5.2 to etc.
Now that I have a scanner and decent OCR software I often scan stuff in to
my computer to save. Only stuff I really want to save as the OCR program is
only about 90-95% accurate. That's five bad words out of a hundred.
As an aside at work I am involved in writing the specs for an electronic
logbook program for a DOE contractor. The National Archives is responsible
for setting the standards for such things, under CFR passed by congress. One
of the requirements is that electronic records that have to be maintained in
perpetuity must be copied onto new media every time the present media begins
to become obsolete. We keep out stuff on CD now. Soon we'll be going to DVD
and all of the old stuff on magnetic tape (DAT) will have to be copied over,
before the tape drives all become history.
Like all laws this is based on the government learning the hard way. Several
entities have irreplaceable information stored on disintegrating media that
can no longer be read.
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:55:39 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
>> > You're overlooking what the "soul" actually means in Christianity.
>> > Considering the fact that it's frequently viewed as the essence
>> > humanity, one might say, "If there's nothing to this "soul" thing, then
>> > there might be nothing to this "humanity" thing either".
>>
>> Keep in mind that there are many who do not have a Judeao-
>> Christian viewpoint on the world. For example, as an athiest, I don't
>> believe in the existence of the "soul" as defined by most religions,
>> and in particular Christianity.
>
>I can't think of anything which I've posted which would indicate I haven't
>kept that in mind.
Other than using Christianity as a justification for a sweeping statement?
>To turn the tables:
>
>Keep in mind that there are many who don't have have a modern, Western,
>psychological viewpoint on the world. For example, as someone who is
>vehemently opposed to the notions which are presented in modern psychology,
>I don't believe in many of its tenets. In other words, my stance on theories
>based on some "emotional need" is similar to that you have on the
>Judeo-Christian soul.
I think you missed my point entirely. You seem to be rejecting theories
based on "emotional need" out of hand simply because you disagree with
the rationale behind them. On the other hand, I am quite willing to
admit that the viewpoint of someone who holds strong Christian beliefs
may well be valid within their own frame of reference -- what I was
objecting to was what I perceived, on your part, to be a sweeping
generalization that applied to everyone (that's the impression I got,
anyway), and pointed out that it doesn't necessarily do so.
For you to apply the same rationale of my point, you would have to
assert that you have no emotional needs, presumably because you have no
emotions. That isn't what you meant, is it? :)
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 20:11:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
>From: "Douglas E. Berry"
>Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ? (was Re: Robot Brains
>
>Another favorite: Duriong the Gulf War, two MPs were chatting
>with an Iraqi EPW in one of the camps. The Iraqi was showing
>pictures of his children to the guards, and one of the guards
>wanted to show of his own collection of baby pictures, so he
>hands his rifle to the *prisoner* so he can dig out his wallet.
>A fully-loaded M-16A2, which was now in the hands of a
technical
>hostile. Luckily the other MP had more brains and immediately
>covered the prisoner with his weapon, ordering him down.
The prisoner, if thinking rationally, must have been scared
witless: "Oh crap, now they've given themselves an excuse to
shoot me! and I just took it when handed to me!"
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 20:16:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>It's not even that. One thing the Soviet system *did* manage to
>do was give us a significant sample of folks living quite
>happily *without* a belief in dieties or an afterlife.
>So it doesn't appear to be as much of a "need" as many have
>argued.
The vitality of the orthodox church during the Soviet period and
its rapid resurgence afterward suggest that the sample of folks
was not all that significant. China similarly tried to get rid
of all religions, and has failed rather dramatically (compare
the Falun Gong on the one hand with widespread observance of
Chinese traditions regarding ancestors and holidays on the
other).
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 15:16:04 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: New mailing list : Traveller_FullThrust!!!
I have bitten the bullet and created a new mailing list on OneList for a Full
Thrust Conversion for Traveller.
The purpose of this list is to create a clean, full featured and fun (if that is
not mutually exlusive, I dont know what is :-> ) simulation of the Traveller
Universe using FTIII (Which is Full Thrust II , with Fleet Book I and possably
EFSB included as well).
The scope of this list is to allow CT, GT and possably T5 when we see more
deatils from Marc Miller to blend seemlessly with Full Thrust. Where there is a
conflict between the systems, Traveller would be used to determine a resolution.
IMHO, it would be nice if we could use a modified space system (as used in CT) ,
thus GT could be used with little effort.
The usr for the list is:
http://www.onelist.com/community/Traveller_FullThrust
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 20:47:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Another real story, but more of inadequate "homework" rather
>than true stupidity.
[deletion]
>Our poor robber was the *only* person in the bank that wasn't
>either a bank employee or FBI agent...
Did he skip robbery school on the days they covered "casing the
joint"?
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 20:56:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: OT Religion and Communism
>From: Cynthia Higginbotham
>One has to ask, if the Soviet citizens were so happy without
>a belief in dieties and an afterlife, why the Soviet Union had
>such a high rate of alcoholism and suicides, and why, as soon
>as the Soviet Union collapsed, people turned back to the
>Orthodox Church in droves?
Alcoholism and suicide preceded the Soviets and will still be
there when the Soviet era is something great grandparents
experienced. Also, the Orthodox Church rapidly reached a modus
vivendi with the Soviet regime and never came close to
disappearing.
It's interesting to compare, for example, Sweden and Finland
with Czarist Russia, the Soviet Union, and modern Russia. Both
of these countries have (and historically have had) high rates
of alcoholism, suicide, and church attendance.
- --Glenn
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 23:55:01 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
On 02/06/00 at 08:42 PM, Robert Prior said:
>Serious question: I've got several _large_ databases that only survive in
>print form, because the software I created them in is no longer
>available, or the disks have died, or I no longer have a computer that
>can read them.
>I've been using a computer since before Traveller was published, so I'm
>extremely aware of just how short the life of digital data is, and how
>little I want to be bothered recopying my data every few years to stay
>technically current.
Rob, I know exactly what you mean. I've got data on old 8" disks
from *years* and *years* ago that I should have gotten onto paper
for real long term storage. Trying to get at that data now would be
more trouble than it's worth, but if it was on paper I could just
scan back into electronic format if I really needed to. Same thing
applies to programs I wrote, or bought, for moribund operating
systems stored on 5 1/4" disks in even less viable file systems.
If it's a problem after 25 years of personal computers, what's it
like after 3000 years?
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:55:24 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology IYTU
From: Glenn St-Germain
> >I can't think of anything which I've posted which would indicate I
> >haven't kept that in mind.
>
> Other than using Christianity as a justification for a sweeping
> statement?
No. I didn't use Christianity as a sweeping statement. Okay, here's the
Reader's Digest condensed version of the discussion so far:
The original poster (I forget who at this point) made the claim that in his
Traveller universe high technology didn't make economic sense, or at least
that's how I understood it, and that would make a fine handwave. I
disagreed, mainly because, historically, increases in technology tend to
bring with them economic growth. The industrial capacity of the Western
nations is now considerably greater than it was around WWI. The industrial
capacity of the Western nations in World War I were far beyond what they
were, say, in colonial times.
I'm not usually one to make handwaves, but I figured I'd... um... try my
hand. (No pun intended). What I said was that a good handwaved would be
based on the *perceived* dehumanizing effects of technology (which I
admitted was simplified greatly, I said something like, "short, sweet and
pat" or words to that effect), as well as the fact that technology is great
at destroying previous traditions (with the implication that a culture might
want to keep those traditions in force, for good or ill).
I cited a number of different variations on the "theme" that technology is
dehumanizing. Among them were folks on talkshows who wail things like, "You
can't clone the human soul!" Bruce responded that such a statement wasn't a
case of dehumanization at all. I assumed that Bruce was on the same page as
I was, but in retrospect, I think he may have ignored the fact that I said
*perceived* dehumanization.
Now a quick word before I continue:
I had believed that I had made it clear in the original post that I wasn't
arguing *for* the notion that technology was dehumanizing, just that using
that notion in a handwave seems pretty plausible to me.
With that being said, I responded to Bruce's post by pointing out that one
could say that, in Christianity, the soul is the seat of a person's
humanity. In other words, the soul is a metaphor for being human.
I don't see it, in the context of the discussion, of being a sweeping
generalization, nor as attempting to sell anyone on the idea that cloning is
dehumanizing because human beings have souls.
> I think you missed my point entirely. You seem to be rejecting
> theories based on "emotional need" out of hand simply because
> you disagree with the rationale behind them.
This is utterly true, but there was also a distinct shift in Bruce's post,
which appeared to me to be a movement from theorizing on events within a
fantasy world to theorizing on people's religious beliefs in this *real*
world in a fashion which I found offensive, and I don't even consider myself
particularly religious!
There's a distinct difference, though: in the real world, or in the
Traveller universe, pointing out that the Christian soul is a metaphor for
being *human* does not invalidate Bruce's worldview, or his deeply held
beliefs. Trivializing religion to something to an "emotional need" puts it
on the level of "puppy love", or teenager's idolization of the Backstreet
Boys.
Frankly, I wanted to nip that half of the discussion in the bud, because I
really didn't want to see a religious flamewar break out.
>On the other hand, I am quite willing to admit that the viewpoint of
> someone who holds strong Christian beliefs may well be valid within
> their own frame of reference -- what I was objecting to was what I
> perceived, on your part, to be a sweeping generalization that
> applied to everyone (that's the impression I got, anyway), and
> pointed out that it doesn't necessarily do so.
I wasn't making a generalization about the soul, though. I was simply
pointing out that for some people there's *more* at stake than something
which may be a myth being proved false.
> For you to apply the same rationale of my point, you would have to
> assert that you have no emotional needs, presumably because you
> have no emotions. That isn't what you meant, is it? :)
No, you got it. That's not really what I was saying at all.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1881
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, February 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1882
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
Re: New Sectors for Galactic 2.4
re: Honey I am home
Automated Vargr (and others) word generation
Re: To who may concern...... BTW this is WAY OT
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: ? (Was: Re: )
Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
Re: old SF for ideas
Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
Help! GTL 13 Ships
Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
World Gen System
Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1880
RE: Full Thrust
RE: Choice of Law (TRAV)
re: Choice of Law
Re: CJ Cherryh
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: World Gen System
RE: knockdown
Subject: Galaxy Rangers
Recoilless and Knock Down (was Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:10:39 -0800
From: "Jason T. Barnabas"
Subject: Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
From: Leonard Erickson
> In case you haven't seen the post someone else made, try this...
>
> three *sharp* golf tees placed with the "heads" forming a triangle and
> the points outward.
See my takes on this symbol:
http://www.releasingthefire.com/thuddd/tri-thorn.html
IMTU, there is an organization similar to the International
Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement. They are
composed of several different races and span the Empire
and most of her neighbors. The name of the organization
and the symbol they use for ready recognition is the Red
Swirl. For a rendering of the symbol in question see:
http://www.releasingthefire.com/cybernaut/red_swirl.html
- --
Jason
______________________________________________
The rules have changed... Get paid to surf the web.
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.2
GIT dpu s+:+>++: a >- C++$ U? P+ L? E? W+++ N o? K? w(+) O? V? PS+(+++)
PE++ Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X(+) R+++ tv+ b++ DI++++ D G e~++ h r y+(-)
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:22:41 -0800
From: "Fred's Email"
Subject: Re: New Sectors for Galactic 2.4
If anyone has some sectors they have created that i can add to my galacitic
2.4, i would like to get them from you. I am in the process of creating a
huge universe full of galaxies and subsectors and sectors..and stuff
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 02:07:33 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: re: Honey I am home
For Ground Forces, as well as the Navy sourcebook, I would hope to extensive
discussion on tactics for planetary invasions and planetary defence. Thus
far, we have seen in movies like the Star Wars trilogy that a diversity of
tactics may be employed to counter invasion, from TESB World War I trench
warfare which despite airpower are no match for the Walkers. Yet, in ROTJ
we see the ewoks employing guerrila warfare capable of defeating a whole
Imperial division. I know Star Wars, is a romanticized version of the
Vietnam War. But, it would be interesting if the author of Ground Forces &
the Navy Sourcebook could elabourate more upon the articles written by one
of the Keith bros. in the first issue of Challenge entitled "Planetary
Invasions".
Secondly, there is the need for Hardware. I don't know if GDW ever got
around to publishing Armour21 but that seemed like a constructive bridge for
the resolution of large scale conflicts on the future battlefields. I would
really like to know how Ground Forces will interact with other forces. In
this vein, I hope Ground Forces will include the COAC & the Wet Navy.
Clearly, in the Far Future worlds will be staging posts which occupying
powers will use as resource depots for their continued expansion so much of
the High Ground will be fought in Space however, the hearts and minds
campaigns will be fought on the planets. Armies will become more and more
compact, notwithstanding, when mobilized there will be a ruthless calling
(read: conscription) out for Blood. How will Armies justify dying for causes
of the nobility. Traveller reminds me very much of the pre-18th century
mode of fighting with its predomence of mercenary operations. To die for
the Imperial Starburst would involve extensive indoctranation as opposed to
planetary forces which are fighting for home. Therefore, it would be
interesting to have a section on Basic Training or Boot Camp for Imperial
soldiers, Illustrating how they would evolve from citizens into soldiers
for an abstract ideal "Free Trade, Planetary Independence and a gentile
aristocracy". That was the brilliance of MT ideology was brought into the
conflict with opposing ideals within each their weaknesses or hubris was
exposed.
Boris
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:51:57 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: Automated Vargr (and others) word generation
I'm looking for WORKING online word generators, mainly 'cause I'm too lazy
(and busy, I swear!!!) to do it the old fashioned way. There were two that
I was aware of:
1.Rob's Word Gen (Vilani, Vargr, & Zhodani)
http://www.glisten.demon.co.uk/
Worked great, but appears to no longer be there...
2.Traveller Alien Word Generation Form
http://web.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/library/wordgen.cgi
Has never worked that I've seen.
Anybody have any that work, or that I haven't seen before?
Thx,
Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 23:49:04 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: To who may concern...... BTW this is WAY OT
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
As I told Glenn, if major events in my life keep happening
like this. The TML meeting at baycon is a tradition.
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 02:38:10 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
At 02:20 08.02.00 , you wrote:
>re the subject:
>
>"Stop - in the name of major wounds"
>
>Isn't he out-ranked by General Hit Point Loss?
I always preferred the smilitary trategies by Major Break-Through
and General Attack.
General Protection-Fault and Major Data-Loss on the other hand, are less
well
received...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:33:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
In mail you write:
>>From: Michel Vaillancourt
>
>> The concept of a bullet impact hitting hard enough to
>>knock someone down on impact force alone is, on evaluation, not
>
>>possible. One of Newton's Laws says that pushing one way at a
>>certain force requires pushing equally in the opposite
>>direction. So, for a bullet to have enough energy to knock
>>a man down by impact forces alone implies that it must have
>>enough *recoil* to knock the *firer* down.
>
> Rocket assisted munitions don't apply (much) recoil to the
> firer. You get a little little recoil getting the round out of
> the chamber, then the rocket pushes its burning fuel in one
> direction and the round in the other. Could a snub pistol round
> knock down the target? RAM grenade?
On the other hand, RA rounds suffer from the problem that they have
*less* knockdown power the closer the target is. That's *not* what you
want when someone is charging at you!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:37:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: ? (Was: Re: )
In mail you write:
> Someone wrote:
>
>
> I have been *yelled* at for using HTML because it messes up
> the digest. Perhaps those of you who get digests could do
> me the courtesy of making sure to add the subject to your
> posts, so that I might have some hope of figuring out where
> they belong in the scheme of things.
I know of at least of mailing list that's most received as a digest
where the moderator put in a filter that automatically *rejects* any
posts that are "Re: xxxx digest #..."
My software sorts messages by subject, so posts that don't have the
"real" subject" wind up not in the thread...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:45:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
In mail you write:
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
>>Another real story, but more of inadequate "homework" rather
>>than true stupidity.
> [deletion]
>>Our poor robber was the *only* person in the bank that wasn't
>>either a bank employee or FBI agent...
>
> Did he skip robbery school on the days they covered "casing the
> joint"?
I understand that he gets laughed at a lot in prison...
"See that guy over there?"
"Yeah..."
"Lemmee tell you what he did..."
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:49:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re : Symbols for Medical Facility
In mail you write:
> Dear Folks -
>
> Leonard said:
>>In case you haven't seen the post someone else made, try this...
>>
>>three *sharp* golf tees placed with the "heads" forming a triangle and
>>the points outward.
>
> Point up (like the original Klingon ;-) or point down?
Hmmm. Point up might get comparison's to the Klingon symbol (though
this strikes me as a lot more "graceful" :-), but doing it the other
way looks like a "Y".
IIRC, both the radiation and the bio-hazard symbols are "two up, one
down". So I guess we could go with that.
> OK, we've got that, now someone draw and scan and post it somewhere.
>
> What was this for, again?
Traditional Vilani symbol for "Poison".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:53:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: old SF for ideas
In mail you write:
> Dear Folks -
>
> Leonard wrote:
>>They are also reprinting James. H. Schmitz's Telzey Amberdon stories...
>>
>>The first story... has an alien species that *has* to be introduced
>>to Traveller (Baluit crest cats).
>
> Actually, the thing I was going to throw at the PCs is the teleporting
> psi-beast hunter... I scanned the cover of one book, and hope to use it.
>
> (best whimsical Pasty Biscoe voice) "And children... here's a picture..." !!!
I think illos from when the story was pubklished in Analog might be
nice. Kelly Freas, and nicely "vague, but menacing".
For giving players nightmares, the Hlaat ("rock lion") from one of the
non-Telzey stories might be more fun.
Hlaats can move thru solid matter. And take things with them.
One of the nice touches in the story is finding the *top* half of a
suit of battledress sticking up from the floor. It's empty, no trace of
the sentry who had been wearing it... Though they *did* find the bottom
half several levels away...
It's not long before folks are *very* rattled...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 23:39:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
In mail you write:
> First of all, thanks for the responses.
>
>> From: Robert James Eaglestone
>> It can happen much quicker with rules other than in the OTU. However,
>> in order to keep the Imperial economy from getting out of balance,
>> I'd put terraforming Mars at the 100-year level as a minimum.
>
> Yeah. The 100-year level feels about right. I was hoping that I could
> justify something a little shorter though. Maybe I should start with
> something a little more Earthlike, although Mars-type worlds feel like a
> good common category of junk world.
Actually, it's hard to justify merely 100 years.
Consider that if you've made changes in atmosphere (other than maybe
removing a taint), or in hydro, or in temp, it'll take more than 100
years for the climate and and geology to settle down.
Yes, *geology*. Changing the amount of oxygen (or water) will cause
*major* erosion. As in "gee, wasn't that a mountain last week?" :-)
> I could use a "pre-biological Earth" nitrogen atmosphere world instead of a
> Mars. Maybe if I use nanotech Von Neumann machines to force changes in the
> oxygen/nitrogen/carbon dioxide proportions I could say that the
> "terraforming" performed by life on Earth could occur at a much faster
> rate, and set it at a couple for decades. It would still take a fair while
> for such a catastrophic change to settle down to a (relatively) stable
> pattern, I suspect.
And as I noted, it'd be centuries before the landscape stabilized.
Going from N2/CO2 to N2/O2, resulted in *major* upheavals on earth. The
pH of rain changes, and several ions that were formerly soluble become
insoluble. Formerly stable rock becomes less stable than Florida
limestone.
BTW, exposed rock will use up *incredible* amounts of oxygen as it
oxidizes... That's another complicating factor.
But basicly, since a stable atmosphere without life is reducving or
neutral, when you terraform the rocks oxidize like mad, and much of the
new oxidation is as fragile as rust and washes off in the first rain.
And the O2 interacts with stuff that used to be dissolved in the oceans
(if there were oceans). You'll get *massive* amounts of iron
precipitating out of solution, for example.
If you added water as well as oxygen, you'll have lots of *water
soluble* surface minerals around. Which are now getting rained on.
Now, with this erosion (massive amounts of it. things worse than a bad
California mudslide will be *common*), you'll be upsetting the
isostatic balance. That is mountains tend to be floating on *thick*
layers of crustal rock. As the mountains erode, the underlying crust
rises. With runaway erosion such as terraforming (or the development of
photosynthesis) leads to, this crust rises fast enough to make
earthquakes frequent. *BIG* earthquakes.
Likewise, the ocean basins are filling up with sediments...
There's there are the shifts in rainfall and wind patterns.
"Fast" terraforming isn't suitable for a planet *I* would care to live on.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:44:18 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer"
Subject: Help! GTL 13 Ships
I need help here, I am no gearhead, but I need to find out a
relatively quick and simple way to put together a small (300 dt)
GTL13 ship with the Gurps rules. The basic GT rules only allow for
GTL10 and 12, and I am uncomfortable with the idea of having to refer
to G: Vehicles, 2e or whatever.
Thanks,
Carlos Alos-Ferrer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 22:45:22 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
>I understand that he gets laughed at a lot in prison...
>
>"See that guy over there?"
>"Yeah..."
>"Lemmee tell you what he did..."
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
Very different behaviour to what is socially normal in Australian
gaols, one Never inquires or discusses anothers sentence without approval.
It's a good way of getting put in hospital, a young bloke was put in a coma
a few years back in Long Bay for doing just that.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 07:45:40 -0400
From: Les_Howie@keane.com
Subject: World Gen System
"Robert Eaglestone" <
>My first pass on the "WorldGen" system is on the
>web at
>members.home.com/eaglestone/WorldGen.html
Love It!
I'd suggest some modifiers for steps A and B based on the world stats -- all
things being equal, I'd expect more people to come to nicer planets.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 13:04:36 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer"
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
> >Another favorite: Duriong the Gulf War, two MPs were chatting
> >with an Iraqi EPW in one of the camps. The Iraqi was showing
> >pictures of his children to the guards, and one of the guards
> >wanted to show of his own collection of baby pictures, so he
> >hands his rifle to the *prisoner* so he can dig out his wallet.
> >A fully-loaded M-16A2, which was now in the hands of a
> technical hostile. Luckily the other MP had more brains and immediately
> >covered the prisoner with his weapon, ordering him down.
Well, you know, if all tasks are 2D6 based, 1 out of every 36 trials
is a *fumble...*
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:41:13 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1880
At 04:24 08.02.00 , you wrote:
>Loved the series, even though it was very toyetic (characters/vehicles easily
>adapted to mass-marketing as action figures, etc.).
>
>Any idea where I can get copies of the tapes?
You might not want them: Those are PAL tapes with the german dub.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 13:00:32 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: Full Thrust
Dom wrote:
> I can see me looking at it again, but the spinal mount issue vs
> effect of missiles etc needs resolving (maybe with a table).
>
> This refers to the issue that FT weapons tend to grind away starships
> and Spinals are currently less lethal than HG.
I remember. Weren't you going to try an automatic threshold
check instead of normal damage for meson gun hits? (And possibly
a "to hit" modifier based on configuration?)
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 13:00:19 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: RE: Choice of Law (TRAV)
"Mark Preston" wrote:
>May I suggest a rather simpler version that is more likely to appeal
>to Strephon and I doubt his successors would have the nerve to change.
>
>Imperial Edict 24 (he'd get here damn quickly):
>"All contracts established within the Imperium, or by any Imperial
>citizen, or with any Imperial citizen shall be adjudged to be
>established under relevant Imperial Law."
I'd give the automatic right to choose to make a contract under
Imperial Law, not require it.
That way, it doesn't appear to be imposed on the populace but
people would be able to choose Imperial Law to get a fair deal.
The idea that choosing the Imperial way of doing things to get a fair
deal should bind the people closer to the Emperor.
IMO, it also fits better with the "Ruled by men, not laws" theme.
IIRC this is similar to the way that Henry II spread the King's Law
across England to replace local laws, thus gaining more power and
support because the people interpreting the laws were the King's
Judges and not the local magistrates (ie your landlord)
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:20:15 EST
From: GaryBartz@aol.com
Subject: re: Choice of Law
The New York solution? Any dispute over X money and with a choice of
law/jurisdiction agreement of New York has automatic jurisdiction in NY
courts, even if it is not connection to the state?
Maybe the 3I has the Federal diversity jurisdiction solution? [If you are
sued in a state, and the other side has a connection to the state and the
entire defense side has no connections to the state, then you can remove the
case to a federal court from the state system]
In a message dated 2/8/00 1:02:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
<< Smaller entities have different problems in interstellar
litigation. Choice of forum becomes a real issue. For example,
the parties might agree that any dispute over the contract could
be heard by any court of appropriate jurisdiction on Regina, but
the Reginan court would look to its own law to see if it had
jurisdiction -- and it's a rare court that allows jurisdiction
to be conferred by agreement of the parties (although that is
normally the rule in arbitration). If it determined that it did
not have jurisdiction, the parties would have to sue elsewhere.
Suppose the contract involved performance on Jewell. The Jewell
court might conclude that because the parties had chosen to have
their dispute heard on Regina, it would not exercise
jurisdiction -- even if the Reginan court had determined that it
could not exercise jurisdiction.
>>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:00:18 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: CJ Cherryh
In a message dated 00-02-07 19:57:50 EST, you write:
<< I mentioned the First In stuff to CJ Cherryh, who seemed interested
and mentioned she knew SJ. >>
I met CJ about 15 years ago, when she and Steve and I were on a SFWA
committee together. It was to establish connections between SF authors and
RPG companies . . . oddly enough, to promote licensing opportunities and to
prevent casual hi-jacking of copyrights.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:00:19 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
In a message dated 00-02-07 19:57:50 EST, you write:
<< Strewth, cut-and-paste Loren's restaurant-like critique! No problems with
copyright there!! ;-)
(Challenge 26, from memory)
>>
A minor one -- I prefer to be asked before the action takes place. Still, if
people ask politely . . .
Frankly, I'd like to see something a little more sophisticated than the
present MRE.
I do believe that military food of the past, present and future all share one
basic characteristic: It will be almost universally despised.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 08:32:11 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Re: World Gen System
Done, and good idea.
I've added a little bit of material and shuffled the
population change section around.
Leonard mentioned several good ideas, but his vector is
tending towards a more rigorous simulation model rather
than human-playable gaming. However, his thoughts about
native population and atmo/hydro change are useful.
What's that address, you say?
members.home.net/eaglestone/WorldGen.html
I know, "world gen" is a misnomer.
Rob
Les_Howie@keane.com wrote:
>
> "Robert Eaglestone" <
>
> >My first pass on the "WorldGen" system is on the
> >web at
>
> >members.home.com/eaglestone/WorldGen.html
>
> Love It!
> I'd suggest some modifiers for steps A and B based on the world stats -- all
> things being equal, I'd expect more people to come to nicer planets.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 09:46:15 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: knockdown
Glenn Goffin writes:
>Rocket assisted munitions don't apply (much) recoil to the
>firer. You get a little little recoil getting the round out of
>the chamber, then the rocket pushes its burning fuel in one
>direction and the round in the other. Could a snub pistol round
>knock down the target? RAM grenade?
Do you consider snub pistol ammunition to be rocket-
propelled? I always figured that it was just low-velocity,
but I hadn't really thought about it. Of course, the
explosion of a snub pistol round might add to it's knock-
down potential, but probably not enough to tip over a
normal human. A RAM grenade, on the other hand...
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 09:59:04 -0500
From: Ethan Henry
Subject: Subject: Galaxy Rangers
Volker Greimann wrote:
>
> Just saw an old videotape of the 80´s series Galaxy Rangers.
> I noticed, once again, how some elements, stations, and spacecraft
> had a very Travellerish design. I´ll see if i can dig up a few scans
> to show you what i mean. Anybody else here liked that
> series?
Totally! I was never a regular viewer, but every time I caught it
I always liked the general look & feel of it... the robotic horses
were a bit much (though perhaps quite doable in Traveller terms)
but the ships, et al, all looked pretty Traveller.
Though I found a web page at
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/7939/gr.html
which has links to a couple DOZEN other pages...
man, there are some rabid fans out there.
For those who have never seen the show, there's a good
plot description at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5072/rangers/TGRN.HTML
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:36:57 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Recoilless and Knock Down (was Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds)
At 10:33 PM 2/7/00 PST, you wrote:
>> Rocket assisted munitions don't apply (much) recoil to the
>> firer. You get a little little recoil getting the round out of
>> the chamber, then the rocket pushes its burning fuel in one
>> direction and the round in the other. Could a snub pistol round
>> knock down the target? RAM grenade?
>
>On the other hand, RA rounds suffer from the problem that they have
>*less* knockdown power the closer the target is. That's *not* what you
>want when someone is charging at you!
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
One of my favorite toys in the RTG _Cyberpunk_ game is the "ramjet
rifle". Hollow cylindrical round with narrow opening aft and wider opening
forward... packed with propellant... the rifle throws the round out with a
light bit of other propellant and lights the internal supply of the round...
the longer it flies, the faster it gets...
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1882
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, February 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1883
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Poul Anderson
Re: Word Generators
Re: World Gen System
Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
Re: Help! GTL 13 Ships
Re: JTAS Online
big map of Spinward Marches
Re: MT manuals: no more available
Re: MT manuals: no more available
Welcome Letter
Re: Help! GTL 13 Ships
RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Re: Recoilless and Knock Down (was Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds)
RE: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
Imperial Guard
RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Word Generators
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:39:10 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Poul Anderson
In a message dated 2/7/00 7:11:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> I make it a general rule not to write to or otherwise pester the authors I
> particularly admire, unless I have legitimate business to discuss. I
> *hate* the thought of being a "fan-boy."
>
> I always intended to dedicate _First In_ to Mr. Anderson, though. My
> debt to him in general and as a writer is considerable. So I wrote to
> him long before the book appeared, to ask his permission to make the
> dedication. He was as gracious as you might expect. I sent him one
> of my author's copies once the book was in print.
>
> I'd heard at second-hand about CJ Cherryh's reaction too. And Steve
> White sent me a couple of letters care of SJG, with comments and
> suggestions. Several of the extant errata are due to him, and if/when
> I get around to writing some JTAS articles to supplement the book
> the first couple will deal with subjects he raised.
>
> All of this was rather unexpected and quite gratifying.
A long time ago, Poul wrote a book on planet/system creation (which I've
never been able to successfully track down). There was an article in Creative
Computing that had a program for Traveller using some of the info in that
book.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:49:43 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Word Generators
In a message dated 2/8/00 7:40:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> Automated Vargr (and others) word generation
>
> I'm looking for WORKING online word generators, mainly 'cause I'm too lazy
> (and busy, I swear!!!) to do it the old fashioned way. There were two that
> I was aware of:
>
> 1.Rob's Word Gen (Vilani, Vargr, & Zhodani)
> http://www.glisten.demon.co.uk/
> Worked great, but appears to no longer be there...
>
> 2.Traveller Alien Word Generation Form
> http://web.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/library/wordgen.cgi
> Has never worked that I've seen.
>
>
> Anybody have any that work, or that I haven't seen before?
There are a couple at least on the HIWG CD, at least one of them is at the
Missourri site. Rob Prior had one too I believe for the MAC.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:58:02 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: World Gen System
At 08:32 AM 2/8/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Done, and good idea.
>
>I've added a little bit of material and shuffled the
>population change section around.
>
>Leonard mentioned several good ideas, but his vector is
>tending towards a more rigorous simulation model rather
>than human-playable gaming. However, his thoughts about
>native population and atmo/hydro change are useful.
>
>What's that address, you say?
>
>members.home.net/eaglestone/WorldGen.html
>
>I know, "world gen" is a misnomer.
>
>Rob
>
You, sir, are a foul person indeed... I'll be up all damn weekend
coding that now... with your permission, of course.
--Michel
(who figures this will handle his "its ALL a recent colony" TNEC
milieu just fine)
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
"Reality Error in Progress....
....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Cyberpunk: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020
Traveller: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller
AD&D: http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/adnd_eurania
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 08:26:26
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
At 08:47 PM 2/7/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>>Our poor robber was the *only* person in the bank that wasn't
>>either a bank employee or FBI agent...
>
>Did he skip robbery school on the days they covered "casing the
>joint"?
Naw, he was in the same class as the two guys who tried to rip off a Motel
6 in Little Rock in late 1992.
This was the motel that was hosting President-elect Bill Clinton's Secret
Service detachment.
"You would have thought they would have noticed all the black Broncos with
lights in the grill work..." -USSS agent.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:04:47 -0600
From: "Bont"
Subject: Re: Help! GTL 13 Ships
> I need help here, I am no gearhead, but I need to find out a
> relatively quick and simple way to put together a small (300 dt) GTL13
> ship with the Gurps rules. The basic GT rules only allow for GTL10 and
> 12, and I am uncomfortable with the idea of having to refer to G:
> Vehicles, 2e or whatever.
There really isn't much difference between TL12 and TL13
depending on your universe. If you don't want to worry about Anti-
matter, the only thing in the engineering department that will change
is the Manuever Drive. It goes from 100 sTons thrust to 360 sTons
of thrust (crew 1/30). Which means the acceleration better than
triples.
The armor only weighs a little more than half (62.5% if I did my math
right) of what it does at TL12. This means the acceleration will go
up a bit more depending on how much you have. On a 300-dTon
ship, I doubt you will have much so I wouldn't worry about it. Just
tack on 40% more DR and you should have a good approximation.
Besides, with 360 sTons of thrust per module, it's _not_ going to
make that much of a difference.
Stealth/Emission cloaking bonuses increase. See the published
formulas.
Bridge computers increase by one complexity. This means all
programs can get more complex by one rating (like targeting,
gunner :)
Nuclear Dampers and Meson screens _might_ get smaller. I don't
know how they were designed. I would go for half size. But
definately no less than that. And on a 300-ton ship, I wouldn't even
worry about it.
Weapons damage increases by 1 die (6dxXX instead of 5dxXX).
Other than that, there isn't a whole lot that changes. Just about
everything tops out at TL11 or TL12. The major difference is going
to be how fast the ship moves ... it's going to be FAST. A 300-ton
ship is going to be impossible to catch by normal ships. Missiles
will have hard time catching it if you design it that way.
What makes GTL13 so neat is there is some new technology that
become available depending on YTU; AM, deflector screens,
Membrane airlocks, etc. Just about anything that isn't "standard or
canon" can be introduced at GTL13.
I hope this helps.
- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)
- - Encrypt your messages!
That way only the government knows what you wrote!
- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!
- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)
- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto
- - Help Stop Forest Fires. Outlaw Matches.
Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
http://www.felixcafe.com/
- - - -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:15:23 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:
>
> Rob, I know exactly what you mean. I've got data on old 8" disks
> from *years* and *years* ago that I should have gotten onto paper
> for real long term storage. Trying to get at that data now would be
> more trouble than it's worth, but if it was on paper I could just
> scan back into electronic format if I really needed to. Same thing
> applies to programs I wrote, or bought, for moribund operating
> systems stored on 5 1/4" disks in even less viable file systems.
>
> If it's a problem after 25 years of personal computers, what's it
> like after 3000 years?
Not _nearly_ as much trouble, much like paper today; we have books
hundreds, thousands, of years old.
Part of the problem we have with electronic storage is that it's all so
_new_...we're still trying to find out what works; same for computing.
How many kinds of paper was there before we figured out how to make
paper that lasted? We don't know...there's none of it left. What we _do_
have left is waht was finally settled on as the main technology.
With electronic records, we haven't settled on the main technology
yet...and we won't for some time to come, I'll wager.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 08:23:17 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: big map of Spinward Marches
Does anyone have large map, in digital format, of the Spinward Marches,
circa 1105 or so? I've recently obtained access to an HP650 plotter
here, which can print on 36" roll paper, so I was picturing a nice large
image of the Marches for my study.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 19:11:09 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: MT manuals: no more available
Derrick Jones wrote:
>
> It just seems somewhat unfair, and somewhat elitist. Maybe at least
> you could arrange some different way of deciding who gets them for
> the next time you do it?
>
I agree that the way I advertised it puts some people at a disadvantage.
The last time I did this, I advertised it first thing on a weekday
morning, so there was a distinct advantage to those TML subscribers who
were in North American and who got their email at their office.
I got a bit of grumbling about that, so this time I made sure I
advertised it on a weekend, to give more people a chance.
However, I'm not sure what else I can do. I could collect names for a
week, and then start rolling dice to see who the lucky people are, but
basically that's more effort than I wanted to put into it.
Oh, well. Because Marc only allows a few copies a year to be sent out,
this won't become an issue again until 2001.
I'm soliciting suggestions on how better to do this. I'm not perfect,
and could use some ideas here.
> OK, this whinging pommie has said his piece, and I apologise for my
> frustrated outburst.
Were I in your shoes, I'd probably be upset too. No need to apologize.
Erwin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:32:47 -0800
From: "Dave Strebe"
Subject: Re: MT manuals: no more available
Thats OK I was one of the lucky recipients last time only
to have my copy disappear along with everything else on
my hardrive (no backup copy)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Erwin Fritz
To:
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: MT manuals: no more available
> Derrick Jones wrote:
snip>
> However, I'm not sure what else I can do. I could collect names for a
> week, and then start rolling dice to see who the lucky people are, but
> basically that's more effort than I wanted to put into it.
>
> Oh, well. Because Marc only allows a few copies a year to be sent out,
> this won't become an issue again until 2001.
>
> I'm soliciting suggestions on how better to do this. I'm not perfect,
> and could use some ideas here.
>
snip.
>
> Erwin
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:54:05 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions
Subject: Welcome Letter
I need to unsubscribe for a while, and I can't find my doggone Welcome
Letter (unusual, because I have the Welcome Letters for the other lists
I'm on--I guess I thought I'd never leave the TML!).
Can anyone help me out?
Thanks,
Kenneth.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:04:02 +0000
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer"
Subject: Re: Help! GTL 13 Ships
> Stealth/Emission cloaking bonuses increase. See the published
> formulas.
Published where?
> I hope this helps.
> FELIX (Thomas L Bont)
It did. Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:05:25 PST
From: "will richards"
Subject: RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
Danny said:
>A description of a standard military ration pack - like MRE's were
>described
>in T2K.
>Strewth, cut-and-paste Loren's restaurant-like critique! No problems with
>copyright there!! ;-)
>(Challenge 26, from memory)
Except that Loren cooked the MRE. And that is not the normal way of eating
it. You eat it cold, out of the bag and mix it with water in your mouth or
tummy not in the bag. Of course the ones they have now are much improved.
Which is a shame, the old dried pork and beef patties where great if you had
the runs. Eat one of those and you would not have to go for about a week!
(OK, two days max)
The great fun is when you get desparate for caffine and eat the coffee. And
lets not talk about the TP.
After Six+ months of eating MRE's you forget about women and start
salavating for british tinnies! ;)
But after the first trade the brits never would trade for an MRE again.
Heck to get a good story about the Rations, find one from WW2, Vietnam
etc, and just change the names of the items and locations.
Will
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:10:18 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Recoilless and Knock Down (was Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds)
Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>
> One of my favorite toys in the RTG _Cyberpunk_ game is the "ramjet
> rifle". Hollow cylindrical round with narrow opening aft and wider opening
> forward... packed with propellant... the rifle throws the round out with a
> light bit of other propellant and lights the internal supply of the round...
> the longer it flies, the faster it gets...
>
Ahh, the good ol' gyrojet!
they have severe problems, however...they were extremely susceptible to
crosswinds while in the slower portions of their flight...the broad side
of a barn was often the only viable target.
Now, in a zero gee, or vacc environment they'll kivck some serious butt,
I would think.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:31:28 -0000
From: "Mark Preston"
Subject: RE: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
Try reading the Red Mars books by Kim Stanley Robinson for ideas.
On your suggestion:
To raise the hydrosphere percentage, you must *first* have an
atmosphere sufficiently dense that the rate of condensation exceeds
the rate of evaporation (otherwise you are just building a humid
atmosphere).
To raise the atmosphere percentage, the world must be sufficiently
large to prevent outgassing (that is, big worlds are easier to do, but
require more atmospheric gas).
You must also ensure that the upper levels of atmosphere are
significantly hotter and thus less dense that the lower levels to
build a suitable density gradient. The easiest way to do that is to
pump greenhouse gasses into the air in huge quantities and then to
heat the lower atmosphere using either heat pumps such as open
exchangers at nuclear stations or massive moholes (the Red Mars books
explain these well).
Having got a relatively stable atmosphere, then you can introduce the
water either from outside or from buried or frozen resources. Oxygen
is a bastard to introduce, because it is so reactive, so you pile in a
**lot** of non-reactive gas such as nitrogen followed by a lot of
carbon dioxide.
Finally, you introduce nitrogen-fixing bacteria into the soil in huge
quantities, dump extravagant amounts of plants everywhere you can
reach and provide minimal levels of oxygen near the plants - leave
them to make enough of their own. Algae would probably be best, but
they are lousy for setting up a stable ecology.
When all that is done, you introduce people, plants and animals and
leave them in a mess for (as best as we can see from Earth examples)
around 50 years to settle into a reasonable ecology.
Unfortunately, that blows your nice and simple equations clear away -
and I can't suggest an easy replacement.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> Robert James
> Eaglestone
> Sent: 06 February 2000 14:57
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh
> MY!!...)
>
>
>
> Alan Bradley wrote:
> >
> > Which brings me to my main point: What would be the
> shortest time required
> > to terraform a Mars-type world to the point where it
> could support a
> > terrestrial ecosystem and "open sky" colony? I'm
> assuming about TL15, and
> > somewhat better biotech, nanotech and so on than in the
> OTU. In other
> > words, it can happen quicker than in the OTU, but how
> much quicker? What
> > wouldn't require particularly outrageous handwaving, and
> wouldn't cause you
> > to emit puking noises if you heard it in a campaign you were in?
> >
> > Alan Bradley
> > alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
>
> It can happen much quicker with rules other than in the
> OTU. However,
> in order to keep the Imperial economy from getting out of balance,
> I'd put terraforming Mars at the 100-year level as a
> minimum. Unless
> someone figures out the requirements, I'd use a Handwaving
> Table thus:
>
> WS = World Size
>
> Raise hydrosphere 10% : (WS * 2) Years, if you have a supply of ice
> handy
> Raise atmosphere 10% : (WS * WS * 10) Years
> Change atmosphere : (WS * WS * WS * 10) Years
>
>
> Raising the hydrosphere takes on the order of 100s of
> millions of dtons
> of water. For the handwave, I'd say the water has to be
> introduced to
> the planet, say from ice in an asteroid belt [assuming
> there's enough].
>
> If you're a generous referee, you might rule that the introduction
> of this water would thicken the atmosphere a bit. But probably
> what you'll need anyhow are bunches of huge plants to manage what
> atmosphere there is and bring it to an acceptable level.
>
> Mars is a size 4 world? Or size 6? If it's a size 6, then you
> can see my handwaves at members.home.net/eaglestone/shush.html
>
> However, I haven't thought much about thickening the atmosphere.
> A different tack than adding water...
>
> Rob
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 18:18:26 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: Imperial Guard
Back in the days that the Imperial Campaign was underdeveloped : White Dwarf
wrote a nice piece on the Imperial Guard. I have often thought and played
in my campaign a synthesis of the that plus the DGP Traveller Digest. If
the author of Ground Forces wants I could make a photocopy and send to him.
I agree with Volker, the crowd at DGP should come back.
Fugate, Fugate, Fugate!
Boris
kafka47@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:17:07
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: RE: Honey, I'm home!!!!
At 10:05 AM 2/8/2000 PST, you wrote:
>Except that Loren cooked the MRE. And that is not the normal way of eating
>it. You eat it cold, out of the bag and mix it with water in your mouth or
>tummy not in the bag. Of course the ones they have now are much improved.
>Which is a shame, the old dried pork and beef patties where great if you had
>the runs. Eat one of those and you would not have to go for about a week!
>(OK, two days max)
And of course the real way to use the choclate drink powder.
1. Mouthful of powder.
2. Drink of water.
3. Swish.
>The great fun is when you get desparate for caffine and eat the coffee. And
>lets not talk about the TP.
That was TP? I used it to draw range plans.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 12:33:54 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
In <4.3.0.33.0.20000208023623.00a605d0@mail.uni-trier.de>, on 02/08/00
at 02:38 AM, Volker Greimann said:
>At 02:20 08.02.00 , you wrote:
>>re the subject:
>>
>>"Stop - in the name of major wounds"
>>
>>Isn't he out-ranked by General Hit Point Loss?
>I always preferred the smilitary trategies by Major Break-Through and
>General Attack.
>General Protection-Fault and Major Data-Loss on the other hand, are less
>well
>received...
Being less *rank* than you appear to be, I more often deal with Corporal
Punishment and Private Affairs. It may be Petty, I suppose , but it's
Chiefly because I don't like Officers.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:28:59 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
At 15:00 08.02.00 , you wrote:
>I do believe that military food of the past, present and future all share one
>basic characteristic: It will be almost universally despised.
Yup. The best thing i ever saw when serving in he military were the
potato-bags, which were labeled: "Fuer Schweinemast und Bundeswehr" ("For
Feeding Swine/Pigs and the German Military)...
Figures, somehow...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:28:12 +0000
From: Paul Campbell
Subject: Re: Word Generators
On Tue, 08 Feb 2000, you wrote:
> In a message dated 2/8/00 7:40:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> > Automated Vargr (and others) word generation
> >
> > I'm looking for WORKING online word generators, mainly 'cause I'm too lazy
> > (and busy, I swear!!!) to do it the old fashioned way. There were two that
> > I was aware of:
> >
> > 1.Rob's Word Gen (Vilani, Vargr, & Zhodani)
> > http://www.glisten.demon.co.uk/
> > Worked great, but appears to no longer be there...
> >
> > 2.Traveller Alien Word Generation Form
> > http://web.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/library/wordgen.cgi
> > Has never worked that I've seen.
> >
> >
> > Anybody have any that work, or that I haven't seen before?
>
> There are a couple at least on the HIWG CD, at least one of them is at the
> Missourri site. Rob Prior had one too I believe for the MAC.
>
> Bryan
I wrote a Word Generator last year as an exercise to learn Delphi 2. (ok its
old but it was free with a magazine) It's win32 and uses an MS-Access database
to store the language tables. It includes a table editor as-well. If your
interested I can try cleaning it up and let you have a copy, including source
code.
Please note that it may be a little klunky to use, it was more an exercise in
learning a few things about Delphi than for itself. Ok that not the best cop
out I could come up with but I tried :-p
- --
Paul Campbell
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:41:23 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Volker Greimann contributed the following to the bashing of military food:
> Yup. The best thing i ever saw when serving in he military were the
> potato-bags, which were labeled: "Fuer Schweinemast und Bundeswehr" ("For
> Feeding Swine/Pigs and the German Military)...
> Figures, somehow...
I actually liked all of the military food I ate, at least the food we had in
the field. C-Rations were good, except the ham and eggs. Nothing quite hit
the spot like the tuna fish meal when you were very tired and hungry. I even
liked MREs. I don't remember any meals which stood out as being particularly
bad the way ham and eggs did.
The food at mess halls is another story. I never could eat that stuff.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:55:24 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Luther Martin wrote:
> Volker Greimann contributed the following to the bashing of military food:
>
> > Yup. The best thing i ever saw when serving in he military were the
> > potato-bags, which were labeled: "Fuer Schweinemast und Bundeswehr" ("For
> > Feeding Swine/Pigs and the German Military)...
> > Figures, somehow...
>
> I actually liked all of the military food I ate, at least the food we had in
> the field. C-Rations were good, except the ham and eggs. Nothing quite hit
> the spot like the tuna fish meal when you were very tired and hungry. I even
> liked MREs. I don't remember any meals which stood out as being particularly
> bad the way ham and eggs did.
What you didn't like green eggs and ham? One of my Favs.....
> The food at mess halls is another story. I never could eat that stuff.
I remember that feeling.
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1883
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1883
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Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1884
Date: 2/8/00 3:11:01 PM Pacific Standard Time
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, February 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1884
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
Re: Help! GTL 13 Ships
Re: Word Generators
Re: Word Generators
RE: Unsubscribing
Re: Imperial Guard
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
re: Meals rejected by Eneri
RE: Terraforming
3I Hardware
Re: Computers and Technology
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Robots, they'll go nutty
Re: 3I Hardware
Re: Full Thrust
Re: GT: Metator User Interface
Re: Word Generators
Re: Imperial Guard
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:59:59 PST
From: "will richards"
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
> >Another favorite: Duriong the Gulf War, two MPs were chatting
> >with an Iraqi EPW in one of the camps. The Iraqi was showing
> >pictures of his children to the guards, and one of the guards
> >wanted to show of his own collection of baby pictures, so he
> >hands his rifle to the *prisoner* so he can dig out his wallet.
> >A fully-loaded M-16A2, which was now in the hands of a
>technical hostile. Luckily the other MP had more brains and immediately
> >covered the prisoner with his weapon, ordering him down.
It wasn't my unit, but we did have a few dim bulbs that where capable of it.
but we put them with the guys who were state troopers in "real life".
Will
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:02:59 -0600
From: "Bont"
Subject: Re: Help! GTL 13 Ships
> > Stealth/Emission cloaking bonuses increase. See the published
> > formulas.
>
> Published where?
GT2:152
It is determined during hull selection.
> > I hope this helps.
> It did. Thanks!
You're welcome.
- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)
- - Encrypt your messages!
That way only the government knows what you wrote!
- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!
- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)
- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto
- - Help Stop Forest Fires. Outlaw Matches.
Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
http://www.felixcafe.com/
- - - -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:06:00 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Word Generators
Paul Campbell wrote:
> I wrote a Word Generator last year as an exercise to learn Delphi 2. (ok
its
> old but it was free with a magazine) It's win32 and uses an MS-Access
database
> to store the language tables. It includes a table editor as-well. If
your
> interested I can try cleaning it up and let you have a copy, including
source
> code.
I also wrote a word generation program a while back. It was designed to
either generate English words or Tsolyani (from the Tekumel world). I
generate a random pattern, and then perform secondary testing against a
first-order Markov model of English to make sure the words generated are
somewhat pronouncable by speakers of English. You can set a threshold, and
any generated words which score below the threshold are disgarded. A higher
threshold gives more pronouncable words, a lower threshold gives more
alien-sounding words.
If I could get a good model for Zhodani words I could easily extend the
program to cover that case also.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 13:35:17 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: Word Generators
Luther Martin wrote:
>
> I also wrote a word generation program a while back. It was designed to
> either generate English words or Tsolyani (from the Tekumel world). I
> generate a random pattern, and then perform secondary testing against a
> first-order Markov model of English to make sure the words generated are
> somewhat pronouncable by speakers of English. You can set a threshold, and
> any generated words which score below the threshold are disgarded. A higher
> threshold gives more pronouncable words, a lower threshold gives more
> alien-sounding words.
>
> If I could get a good model for Zhodani words I could easily extend the
> program to cover that case also.
There are tables for generating Zhodani words, and syllable frequencies,
etc, in GT:AR1. Is that what you need?
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 15:52:53 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Unsubscribing
Kenneth Bearden writes:
>I need to unsubscribe for a while, and I can't find my doggone
>Welcome Letter (unusual, because I have the Welcome Letters for
>the other lists I'm on--I guess I thought I'd never leave the
>TML!).
>Can anyone help me out?
At the end of the digest, the following is found:
<<<
To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:
unsubscribe traveller-digest
in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com".
>>>
I expect that you can drop the "-Digest" if you don't get the digest version.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:46:49
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Imperial Guard
At 06:18 PM 2/8/2000 GMT, you wrote:
>Back in the days that the Imperial Campaign was underdeveloped : White Dwarf
>wrote a nice piece on the Imperial Guard. I have often thought and played
>in my campaign a synthesis of the that plus the DGP Traveller Digest. If
>the author of Ground Forces wants I could make a photocopy and send to him.
alas, I sort of need this *now*. I just needed to be sure that the
Imperial Guard wasn't a DGP-only thing.
they're in the book, as a sidebar.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:48:36
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
At 12:33 PM 2/8/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>Being less *rank* than you appear to be, I more often deal with Corporal
>Punishment and Private Affairs. It may be Petty, I suppose , but it's
>Chiefly because I don't like Officers.
God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 12:43:03
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
At 11:55 AM 2/8/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Luther Martin wrote:
>> I actually liked all of the military food I ate, at least the food we had
>> in the field. C-Rations were good, except the ham and eggs. Nothing quite
>> hit the spot like the tuna fish meal when you were very tired and hungry.
>> I even liked MREs. I don't remember any meals which stood out as being
>> particularly bad the way ham and eggs did.
>
>What you didn't like green eggs and ham? One of my Favs.....
I loved MREs. Still eat them on occassion. I remember very well the trade
value of each item in the orginal twelve menus.
>> The food at mess halls is another story. I never could eat that stuff.
>
> I remember that feeling.
At Ft. Benning, I pretty much lived on burgers and fried chicken. The Mess
Sergeant had delusions of culinary ability.
Schofield Barracks, on the other hand, had great food.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 15:55:36 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Meals rejected by Eneri
Volker wrote:
>Yup. The best thing i ever saw when serving in he military were the
>potato-bags, which were labeled: "Fuer Schweinemast und Bundeswehr"
>("For Feeding Swine/Pigs and the German Military)...
>Figures, somehow...
Interesting.
According to stories I've heard from WW2, there was a
tradition in Germany that the troops (especially the
front line troops) received the best food available.
So much so, that captured German soldiers complained
of inhumane treatment when they got fed at POW
holding areas. The food at these holding areas was
the same as that served to the American soldiers
on the other side of the wire.
If German food was bad, I'm somewhat frightened to
consider how much worse the American food must have
been.
Of course, another tradition in every military is
to proudly claim that your army's food is far worse
than that endured by your enemy...or ally.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:07:04 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Terraforming
Mark Preston writes:
>You must also ensure that the upper levels of atmosphere are
>significantly hotter and thus less dense that the lower levels
>to build a suitable density gradient.
Pardon my ignorance, but why is it necessary to have the
upper levels of the atmosphere hotter than the lower
levels?
>The easiest way to do that is to pump greenhouse gasses into
>the air in huge quantities and then to heat the lower atmosphere
>using either heat pumps such as open exchangers at nuclear
>stations or massive moholes (the Red Mars books explain these
>well).
Now I'm even more lost. Will greenhouse gases selectively
heat the lower atmosphere? How will this result in a
higher temperature in the upper atmosphere?
>Finally, you introduce nitrogen-fixing bacteria into the soil in
>huge quantities,
If the bacteria thrive, you don't really have to start
with huge quantities (at least, not huge on a planetary
scale), as they can reproduce rather effectively.
>dump extravagant amounts of plants everywhere you can reach
>and provide minimal levels of oxygen near the plants - leave
>them to make enough of their own. Algae would probably be best,
>but they are lousy for setting up a stable ecology.
I'm not sure that algal ecologies are any less stable
than those based on other photosynthetic organisms. Terra
made due with blue-green algae (photosynthetic bacteria)
for billions of years.
>When all that is done, you introduce people, plants and animals
>and leave them in a mess for (as best as we can see from Earth
>examples) around 50 years to settle into a reasonable ecology.
I expect that humans would likely be moved in as soon as
possible. In fact, they would probably live there even
before terraforming began. As for them moving out into
the developing biosphere, it might be wise to allow the
introduced animals to "settle in" for a while first.
Not that such wisdom would automatically be heeded.
Of course, some animals will be added along with the
plants (bees with the flowering plants, for example).
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 13:51:58 -0800
From: "Thing"
Subject: 3I Hardware
So,
Supposedly the Villani, Solomani, and others developed the Jump Drive
independently, but more or less along the same lines using pretty much
the same materials.
So, the Villani cruised around with their Jump Drive since Nearly -9235,
but do to their conservative nature, the AAB, the desire not to tinker
with a functional complex system, or other reasons did not do much
further development or improvement of the basic jump drive getting to
Jump 2 nearly 4K years latter in -5430.
The Solomani develop Jump-1 in -2431, and then rapidly get to Jump-2
in -2398 and jump-3 in -2280. Either this is because they are so much
more willing to change things than the Vilani or they had a better model
to draw info from, or both.
Then comes the long night. Many worlds loose jump technology
altogether, and the impression is that a lot of those that held onto it
did so barely.
So even if they didn't start out by copying Ancient technology, when the
3I starts a lot of old 1&2I technology is found, reverse engineered and
copied.
I always figured that was why so much hardware was standardized
throughout known space. They've been copying designs for millennia and
have some truly old ships in service that still need replacement parts.
I assume any merchants plying the routes between worlds don't want to
have to waste cargo space in carrying compatible replacement parts with
them.
So I started wondering how much of this technology is really understood.
The Imperium pours tons of research technology into jump drives and jump
technology with the various mega corporations as well as the jumpspace
institute, but the isolating effect of the jump field that allows a
starship to survive jumpspace transit also makes it hard/impossible to
gather accurate data on jumpspace.
I wonder how many Easter eggs and not fully understood pieces of
technology might be on a starship. Do they understand how the jump
coils and grid work or does the research leading to bigger jump numbers
consist of flowing more power stabile into pretty much the same
equipment.
Maybe some of the circuitry that they have been copying for stabilizing
the jump field has some old security routines or a routine to kick a
ship out of jumpspace early in response to an ancient distress signal?
I imagine that most people that maintain or fix the jump drives mainly
do black box repair and just replace the field rectifier module when it
goes TA. If the Corporations that manufactured the units didn't
understand 100% of the equipment involved but always included a
framestat because it works with one in the system and doesn't without,
who would know.
G.D.D.
Thing under the stairs,
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.
==================================
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no
God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:55:26 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology
Glenn Goffin puts forth into the Ether:
> >From: "Douglas E. Berry"
> >Subject: Re: Computers and Technology
> >My image of the Imperium has always been rather Victorian.
> >Since there are not all that many ways to build a free trader,
> >style will become important. Brass railings, bass-reliefs in
> >the corridors, thick shag carpeting..
>Thick shag carpeting in burnt siena and gold; avocado green
>handheld commo devices; big clunky lamps in the lounge;
>bell-bottoms on crew uniform trousers and long sideburns ....
Funny...this is how I envision a SPACE:1889 Etherflyer...
I've determined that I can build SPACE:1889 Cloud Flyers in GURPS:Vehicles,
I haven't tried an Etherflyer yet.
Need a Hiver of a handwave to fit that into a fairly standard TU.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com Opinions stated are those of the author's dog...
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway.
That's our story and we're sticking to it. http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:03:43 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
On 6 Feb 00, at 23:30, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 00-02-04 23:46:35 EST, you write:
>
> << Kagehira@aol.com
> > Well, I had that happen to me with some B5W stuff: asked someone to
> forward
> > it to AoG for me (cause my ISP claimed that their ISP didn't exist)
> and it > showed up in a book with credit to the forwarder. > > I'm not
> terribly worried about SJG, but if they get bought up then the > buyer
> might not hold to any gentleman's agreements. Which is why the >
> copyright in the sig is a good idea.
>
> It also happened to GDW and/or DGP at least once>>
>
> More than once. GDW was accused of stealing the Ancients from Fred Pohl
> and of stealing the Aslan from CJ Cherryh, among other things. Used to
> happen every few months, back in the bad old days.
I thought the Aslan were stolen from Niven :) That stikes me as a much
more viable claim, seeing as Niven's Kzinti were fairly generic
"felines in space" in his earlier work.
As for the ancients, I seem to remember some sort of "ancient" turning
up in quite a lot of old style space opera, etc. Of them all I'd say
that your Traveller ancients are closest to Edmund Cooper's.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:18:42 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
On 8 Feb 00, at 11:41, Luther Martin wrote:
> Volker Greimann contributed the following to the bashing of military food:
>
> > Yup. The best thing i ever saw when serving in he military were the
> > potato-bags, which were labeled: "Fuer Schweinemast und Bundeswehr"
> > ("For Feeding Swine/Pigs and the German Military)... Figures, somehow...
>
> I actually liked all of the military food I ate, at least the food we had
> in the field. C-Rations were good, except the ham and eggs. Nothing quite
> hit the spot like the tuna fish meal when you were very tired and hungry.
> I even liked MREs. I don't remember any meals which stood out as being
> particularly bad the way ham and eggs did.
>
> The food at mess halls is another story. I never could eat that stuff.
I always found it the other way round - the mess food was at least
edible, and often very good, but the field rations ranged (depending on
which year - the army was canstantly trying different suppliers) from
edible only after a long day's march to edible only after trying your
boots. At one point the stuff was tinned by a cat-food company, we
suspect from the rejected pet food, and at another the cat food
would've had more flavour. We started bringing two-minute noodles on
exercise with us so that at least we'd have the illusion of food.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:21:31 +0100
From: Volker Greimann
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
At 12:48 08.02.00 , you wrote:
>At 12:33 PM 2/8/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >Being less *rank* than you appear to be, I more often deal with Corporal
> >Punishment and Private Affairs. It may be Petty, I suppose , but it's
> >Chiefly because I don't like Officers.
>
>God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
>so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
Good thing i wan´t drinking when i read this one...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:44:55 +1100
From: "Hughes, Michael"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Robots, they'll go nutty
Wow, MCr 1.2 for a robot. Maybe paying a pilot, navigator, and sensor
operator is more economical?
BTW, the max Int for a TL 13 robot is A (10) not F - see Robots p 39. You'll
have to reduce the number of skills, or add more brain so that the thing can
learn. There should be a bracketed figure representing the max Edu the robot
can attain. Currently it should be 5(F).
One thing you should all take note of: the brain costs MCr1.25, while the
entire rest of the robot costs MCr0.02.
Brains don't come cheap. Generally. Too bad if they go wrong. $$$ ;-P
- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson
Why do I have a felling the E.R.Y.C is going to go nuts in the immediate
future <"crush, kill, destroy">
- - Michael (With reference to Dave's long lived campaign of which I was a
ring-in for last session)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:55:02 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: 3I Hardware
Thing pondered jump drive technology and wrote:
> So I started wondering how much of this technology is really understood.
> The Imperium pours tons of research technology into jump drives and jump
> technology with the various mega corporations as well as the jumpspace
> institute, but the isolating effect of the jump field that allows a
> starship to survive jumpspace transit also makes it hard/impossible to
> gather accurate data on jumpspace.
Maybe it is like semiconductors, in that the physics was understood before
the ability to actually fabricate working devices was around. Maybe the move
from J-1 to J-6 has the same pattern. Maybe you need expremely pure
Handwavium in some special superlattice form to make jump drives work.
Is there any technology which has been around for a significant length of
time which is not well understood?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:43:10 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Full Thrust
>Second, I had the chance to play the ruleset called
>Full Thrust. These have been mentioned several times
>on this list. I wonder if any enterprising soul has developed
>a conversion for Traveller of these rules?
There's a set I playtested for BITS called Fifth Frontier Thrust. Included
High Guard conversions. Dom Mooney would have more details.
If some enterprising soul could do a GURPS-to-Full Thrust conversion that
would be great.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:52:57 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: GT: Metator User Interface
>But Rob: will it only do GT stats, or will it also do CT/MT stats?
>Pleeease tell me it will do both. (I may illustrate GT books, but I must
>admit I don't use the GURPS system.)
I was planning on having most of the output being in real-world stats, at
least as far as I could. UWPs would be a good idea, I suppose.
>>What do people want to see?
>
>I assume it'll do _First In_ system generation? Of course you'll include
>a toggle for metric measures, right?
Yes, it's for First In. I included a toggle for American measurements.
Metric is default. (It's also a preference you can set, so the Yanks can
make the choice once and forget it.)
>>How important are the non-mainworlds?
>
>UWPs will do for these, I feel. As in the original Metator, it would be
>useful to have the ability to generate detailed profiles of non-mainworlds
>only as they're needed.
Dynamic memory. Pointers. Yech. You're right, it's the way to go though.
>>Are things like pressure tables useful?
>
>Pressure isn't entirely necessary, because the important info is right
>there in the UWP: can I breath it, do I need a mask or a suit? etc.
It's easy, though. :-)
>Temperature tables are useful, though.
And tougher. I'll try. If they're in First In I can do it: merging WBI and
FI would be trickier.
>>Animal encounter tables?
>
>Personally I've never needed more than two or three animals *per world* in
>a game. More than that tends to be overkill -- unless the campaign is
>likely to concentrate on one world for many game sessions.
Make it an option, then?
>>Economic summaries?
>
>Useful, but not necessary.
Another option?
>>How will they use the program? For generating totally new systems or
>>expanding existing ones?
>
>Mostly I'd use it for generating new systems. Only rarely for expanding an
>existing world into a full system.
Totally new systems is easier. I'm still trying to work out a formula to
take a given world and star, then work backwards to the Bode constant and
multiplier.
>>Which is more important: output to text files, html files, hardcopy, or
>>interactive use?
>
>Text, man. Text! *TEXT*! (ahem. Sorry for shouting...) I've been hoping
>and waiting -- something like three years now -- for a Metator that will
>allow me to save *all* the generated data [not just the system data] to
>*text* files. Metator has always held out the *promise* of being the
>coolest thing since tinned anaconda slices, but it has always dangled
>*just* beyond the point of being really useful to me. Kinda frustrating, eh?
Got you.
Actually, text/html would be easier for me than handling multiple-page
printouts. Would you be interested in a program that couldn't print itself,
but did provide you with all the data in a large text file?
>>What else should I be thinking of?
>
>_Far Trader_ data?
That's what I meant by economic data.
>BTW, I've always loved your user-definable language generator -- great for
>whomping up masses of world names. Actually, I use it to generate
>character names, too. A cool and necessary feature, I say.
That will be included.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 16:57:29 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Word Generators
In <00020819333100.24850@lanth.marches>, on 02/08/00
at 07:28 PM, Paul Campbell said:
>I wrote a Word Generator last year as an exercise to learn Delphi 2. (ok
>its old but it was free with a magazine)
Don't feel bad. I still use Delphi 1.0 for some things...it's able to
create programs that run under Win3.1 (and OS/2) and that still comes in
handy from time to time.
Speaking of which, that reminds me I need to get that T4 dice roller
posted to my webpage. I'll post a warning when I get it online.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:05:16 -0600
From: Eris Reddoch
Subject: Re: Imperial Guard
In <3.0.5.16.20000208114649.45f7ae8c@pop.mindspring.com>, on 02/08/00
at 11:46 AM, "Douglas E. Berry" said:
>At 06:18 PM 2/8/2000 GMT, you wrote:
>>Back in the days that the Imperial Campaign was underdeveloped : White Dwarf
>>wrote a nice piece on the Imperial Guard. I have often thought and played
>>in my campaign a synthesis of the that plus the DGP Traveller Digest. If
>>the author of Ground Forces wants I could make a photocopy and send to him.
>alas, I sort of need this *now*. I just needed to be sure that the
>Imperial Guard wasn't a DGP-only thing.
They can't be Doug. Loren used them in several TNS articles since GT came
out. That should make the Imperial Guard fair game...any specific
details unique to DGP might be verbotan, but I couldn't tell you about
that.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch"
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1884
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, February 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1885
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Ranks and names (Extremely OT)
Re: 3I Hardware
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Robots, they'll go nutty
RE: Full Thrust
Kiri's question (OT)
Re: Word Generators
re: 3I Hardware
Re: Imperial Guard and what to do about art
Traveller Software list?
Re: Traveller Software list?
Re: Imperial Guard and what to do about art
Adios, Amigos!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:11:26 +1100
From: "Hughes, Michael"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Ranks and names (Extremely OT)
>"Stop - in the name of major wounds"
>
>Isn't he out-ranked by General Hit Point Loss?
I always preferred the smilitary trategies by Major Break-Through and
General Attack.
General Protection-Fault and Major Data-Loss on the other hand, are less
well received...
Once I played Warlords II. Constantly. The only fr*gging game I had worth
playing on our machine (Powermac). Typical hero names as follows;
Gen. Der Bender
Gen. Ral Store
Gen. Isis
Gen. Uflect
And of course . . .
Maj. Oram
Maj. Orr
Maj. Esty
Capt. Ivated
Capt. Ain
Sir. Loin
Sir. Pent
Sir. Tain
Ahaha, ahaha, ahaha etc. Headache. Must lie down.
As for RPG names; What are some favourties out thar in the gaming world? Any
hidden jokes, humerous slightly altered names to taste (Clerferson Winton,
Hdolf Aitler) etc. For fantasy games, hopw about a pantheon made up of Coca
Cola products - names being altered of course; Kark, Deit Kark (son of
Kark), Mulo Yulo, Funta, Sprote. All battling the evil forces of Popsu, Deit
Popsu (son of Popsu), Muntan Dow etc.
Please form an orderly queue before throwing things at me.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 15:46:46 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: 3I Hardware
Luther Martin wrote:
> Is there any technology which has been around for a significant length of
> time which is not well understood?
Lots of 'em. I don't understand automatic transmissions. My ex-father-
in-law swore up and down that microwave ovens cooked with sound waves.
I don't know if either of those counts as having been around for a
significant length of time, though.
Oh, you mean not well understood by the manufacturers? :)
Well, to go back to semiconductors as an example, I could imagine an
agency with no clue about IC *design* that nonetheless had a good
understanding of IC *fabrication*, and given the chip blueprints
could turn out plenty of 'em. A fab house like that can, in fact,
make substantial improvements in the process, in order to improve
yields, without affecting the design or performance of the product.
Likewise, I imagine that, say, most of the companies in the Imperium
which can manufacture a jump drive couldn't design one.
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 18:55:06 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Volker Greimann types:
>At 12:48 08.02.00 , you wrote:
> >At 12:33 PM 2/8/2000 -0600, you wrote:
> > >Being less *rank* than you appear to be, I more often deal with Corporal
> > >Punishment and Private Affairs. It may be Petty, I suppose , but it's
> > >Chiefly because I don't like Officers.
> >God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
> >so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
>Good thing i wan´t drinking when i read this one...
This did cause me to cough on the coffee I was drinking, but my keyboard
remained untouched.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/ Opinions Mine!
"Meatspace" - The physical world (as opposed to the virtual world), also
"carbon community."
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:59:36 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Robots, they'll go nutty
Dear Folks -
Michael said:
>>Brains don't come cheap. Generally. Too bad if they go wrong. $$$ ;-P
>
>Why do I have a felling the E.R.Y.C is going to go nuts in the immediate
>future <"crush, kill, destroy">
Well, one of E.R.I.C.'s favourite lines _is_:
"I'm sorry, Ervmisbe, I'm afraid I can't do that..."
Good ol' Eric! Originally spec'd as a suit of Droyne battledress but turned into
a mini battlemech (w/fridge-sized body). That's student projects for you.
Ervmisbe keeps claiming that Eric doesn't stand for anything. The students at
the Rhylanor Institute of Robotics know better. They say (publicly) it stands
for ERvmisbe's Intelligent Combat-armour. It really stands for Ervmisbe's
Ridiculous Intelligent Combat-trousers.
With tentacles. (wobble wobble)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:01:07 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: RE: Full Thrust
"Trevor, Peter" wrote:
>Dom wrote:
> > I can see me looking at it again, but the spinal mount issue vs
> > effect of missiles etc needs resolving (maybe with a table).
> >
> > This refers to the issue that FT weapons tend to grind away starships
> > and Spinals are currently less lethal than HG.
>
>I remember. Weren't you going to try an automatic threshold
>check instead of normal damage for meson gun hits? (And possibly
>a "to hit" modifier based on configuration?)
Bingo! I knew we'd discussed something but it had passed away in my mind.
I think that the Threshold checks were going to be based on weapon and size;
Hmm. Say light spinals do a single check with a critical on a 6,
heavy do a single check with a critical on a 5 and 6. This is on
every hit...
The harder configurations reduce the hit effects ie reduce chance of
critical so...
Weapon Normal Chance Configs 1,2,7,9
Light Meson 6 None (no extra critical)
Heavy Meson 5,6 6
Or you could leave in the chance of some critical damage getting
through (which I like):
Weapon Normal Chance Configs 1,2,7,9
Light Meson 5,6 6
Heavy Meson 4,5,6 5,6
On top of this Jon Tuffley suggested a single dice role of
catastrophic damage on a spinal hit - ie you roll an extra
catastrophic dice with the criticals. If this comes off a second set
of threshold checks are made, and a new catastrophic check etc etc.
It's the mechanism for beams weapons from the EFSB IIRC.
A Heavy Meson J+ IIRC in the sequence will do a number of boxes
damage (reduced by meson screens) plus 50% of systems knocked out.
This could result in a ship being mission killed very quickly with a
hit from a spinal platform, without worrying about attrition damage.
If you wanted to account for meson screens you could do the
following:
Weapon Normal Chance MSn Configs 1,2,7,9 Meson
Scrn=Yes & Msn Spinal
Light Meson 5,6 -1 -1
Heavy Meson 4,5,6 -1 -1
All spinals require a catastrophic dice roll at a minimum of '6'
Eg
Light PA - criticals on 5,6; Normal Damage, catastrophic roll on 5,6
Light Meson - criticals on 5,6, Normal Damage, catastrophic roll on 5,6
Light Meson vs Meson screen, criticals on 6, Normal Damage reduced by
screen, catastrophic on 6
Light Meson vs Config, criticals on 6, Normal Damage, catastrophic on 6
Light Meson vs Config & Screen, no criticals, Normal Damage reduced
by screen, catastrophic on 6
Heavy meson vs Config & Screen, criticals on 6, Normal Damage reduced
by screen, catastrophic on 6
Heavy Meson vs Config, criticals on 5,6, Normal Damage, catastrophic on 5,6
Heavy meson vs Screen, Criticals on 5,6, Normal Damage less screen,
catastrophic on 5,6
Heavy meson, criticals on 4,5,6, normal damage, catastrophic on 4,5,6
**ship killer**
Thoughts?
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:07:28 EST
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Kiri's question (OT)
Kiri wants to know:
<
Reason I ask is-- I *think* my ref in the early 80's was using Ludowick as a
SCA name at one point in time. I usedta play in West Virginia, of all the
places in the world.>>
I've never been to West (by gosh) Virginia, so it must be a different guy.
I took Ludowick as an email name only recently (got it from a 17th century
ancestor of mine).
< not gonna be on my feet very long. LOL...>>
I guess that would be Aslan females in UNcomfortable shoes. They might fit
better on digitigrade feet, which was my first guess at the meaning of the
Aslan females & shoes phrase that kept popping up. Little did I know...
Ludowick@aol.com (sometimes known as Harry Protagonist)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:26:23 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Word Generators
In a message dated 2/8/00 1:43:00 PM Central Standard Time,
kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk writes:
<< > > Anybody have any that work, or that I haven't seen before? >>
I have a working Excel spreadsheet that generates Vargr words.
Marc Miller
FarFuturer@AOL.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:24:06 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: 3I Hardware
At 18:09 -0500 8/2/00, 3I Hardware wrote:
>So even if they didn't start out by copying Ancient technology, when the
>3I starts a lot of old 1&2I technology is found, reverse engineered and
>copied.
>
>I always figured that was why so much hardware was standardized
>throughout known space. They've been copying designs for millennia and
>have some truly old ships in service that still need replacement parts.
>I assume any merchants plying the routes between worlds don't want to
>have to waste cargo space in carrying compatible replacement parts with
>them.
The Sylean Federation retains jump capability throughout the long
night, as do its neighbours and rivals the Chanestin Kingdom and
Interstellar Confederacy, which are later crushed and economically
integrated by Yr 2 (IIRC from Milieu 0 Campaign). Thus, there is an
argument that Sylea and the nascent 3I will retain control of jump
technology initially by restricting construction in the former enemy
states. However, the voluntary integration of Vland (whose AAB
retains a lot of info including J Drives) in -30 brings another
source of drive technology. By 588, when Terra is annexed, another
major source of J Drive technology is added (the Old Earth Union
having retained jump drive).
So you get:
Sylean jump drives - evolved from Solomani RoM technology IIRC
Chanestin J drives - likely limited understanding due to Keshi being
a Barren world post war, and the fact that their technology was
rebuilt from a single J Drive ship which survived until -200
Interstellar Confederacy J-Drives - likely moderately advanced - M0
mentions they start experimenting to develop a ramscoop jumpship and
they have a 32 system empire.
Vilani JDrives - probably very good old designs of J1 and J2. J3+
probably initially copies of Sylean technology.
OEU j drive - based on Solomani drives, possibly in turn based upon
Vilani or Ancient drives (dependent on whether you believe that the
UN found a Vilani or Ancient base on Pluto).
Hmm.
I do like the Easter eg idea, but it works better with Vilani or
Chanestin systems...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:34:02 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: Re: Imperial Guard and what to do about art
>
>You wrote:
> >Back in the days that the Imperial Campaign was underdeveloped : White
>Dwarf
> >wrote a nice piece on the Imperial Guard.
>
Now that I have got home from work...
It was their regular Traveller column entitled Starbase - "Imperial
Trooper" (White Dwarf#63 pg. 43) more of an elite fighting force but toward
the end of the article they deal with something called the Imperial Guard.
I also have a copy of the Traveller Digest, if it is helpful. Plus, I
would urge the author of Ground Forces to look at the articles in the
Traveller's Digest regarding the Terran Occupation Force (TD#13,14 I think).
Terrible illustrations...sorry I don't like anime much prefer the Keith's
illustrations or Jessie's.
To start a new thread, what is the overall opinion on Traveller artwork?
For the works of the Keiths, Blair Reynolds, Jessie and some of what is in
TNE is just great and Chris Foss who captures good colour prints. GURPS is
improving but still seems a tad cartoonish. If Marc is listening DON'T USE
the anmie which dominated much of T4!
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 17:14:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Traveller Software list?
Since I now have a halfway decent Mac (SE 30, 20 meg RAM, 200 meg HD,
ethernet card), I figure it's about time to start picking up various
programs for Traveller. I've got notes on some, but I'm sure I don't
have anything like a complete list. So, what I'd like is for folks to
reply to this with info about the various programs available. I'll try
to consolidate it into a list.
Try to format it like this:
Name of Program (with version)
One line description
System & system requirements
URL for getting program
"Complete" Description of program (paragraph or more)
Thanks!
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 17:41:55 -0800 (PST)
From: healyzh@aracnet.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Software list?
> Since I now have a halfway decent Mac (SE 30, 20 meg RAM, 200 meg HD,
> ethernet card), I figure it's about time to start picking up various
Halfway decent? Shoot, that's a killer system given the right software!
> programs for Traveller. I've got notes on some, but I'm sure I don't
> have anything like a complete list. So, what I'd like is for folks to
> reply to this with info about the various programs available. I'll try
> to consolidate it into a list.
I've got a 'Buz Word Generator' that should run on most any Mac, and my
ClarisDraw 'Starship Deckplan Templates' on the following webpage:
http://zane.brouhaha.com/healyzh/rpg/travller.html
The Buz Word Generator is basically the computer version of a Magazine
article (I forget which, the info is in the Stuffit Archive, but I'm on a
computer that can't handle it at the moment).
Zane
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:47:06 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Imperial Guard and what to do about art
Dear Folks -
Boris replied to my direct query:
>>>Back in the days that the Imperial Campaign was underdeveloped : White Dwarf
>>>wrote a nice piece on the Imperial Guard.
>>
>>Which issue?
>
> It was their regular Traveller column entitled Starbase - "Imperial
>Trooper" (White Dwarf#63 pg. 43) more of an elite fighting force but toward
>the end of the article they deal with something called the Imperial Guard.
Thanks for the reply!
If it's an old Starbase article, Doug, it *may* be archived at Andy Slack's
website...
Can't remember the URL, but the Tavonni Jump Point *should* be up-to-date???!!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:48:23 -0600
From: Kenneth Bearden -- Walker Jane Productions
Subject: Adios, Amigos!
- --------------F15A6DC9A2904AF93F5CD213
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Well, I've been on the TML for a few years now, and today it's time for
me to sign off--at least for a while anyway.
My group and I played a 5 year D&D campaign, followed by a 3 year
Traveller campaign, and that was followed by a 2 and a half year Star
Wars campaign.
We're actually moving on to another game now. This is a bit off-topic,
but some of you might think this is neat--and maybe use the idea in your
Traveller games.
The game we're going to is TSR's out-of-print spy game, Top Secret/S.I.
If you haven't played this before, or don't know much about it, it's
pretty doggone cool.
Top Secret/S.I. is the second edition of their old game, called simply
Top Secret. There are multiple spy-related genres to choose from.
They've got supplements to help you run an old, 30's style game where
you are going to places like Casablanca, fighting Nazis and Japs, and
the hair on the back of your neck stands up whenever you see anyone
wearing a fidora and a trench coat.
Or, you can go to the other extreme, and play a futuristic game, using
powered armor and other futuristic-mercenary type of equipment. You can
run a game where the spy organization exists in a universe with Super
Heroes--like the X-Men.
You can run a realistic, hard-core, Tom Clancy-ish game, or you can use
the universe the basic game is set in--and that's the here and now, on
this planet, today, with a James Bond flare.
That last genre is the one we will be using, albeit I'm going to run the
game much more realistically than what you see in most Bond films (if
you've ever read any of the excellent Flemming or Gardner novels, you
have a pretty good idea of where and when our game will be set).
It's interesting how we're starting this new campaign.
I went to player, who are also some of my closet friends. Without
telling them that this had anything to do with role playing--in fact, I
came across as earnest as I could, I asked them for an extreme favor.
I'd say, "Man, I have a huge favor to ask. I wouldn't ask if it weren't
important, and this is very, very important. I know you're going to
want to know why, but all I can do is ask you to trust me--because I
can't give you a reason that I'm asking this right now...
"I need you to show up downtown (Houston), at 5:00 pm, next Thursday, on
the 63rd floor of Two Houston Center. I know this will be a sacrifice
for you with your wife/job/kid/etc, but I really, really need you
there. Will you do that for me without asking questions that I cannot
answer at this time?"
To a person, each of my players, my friends, said yes. They'd be there.
Then, I went on to tell them that what I had just asked them was
bullshit--I was setting up the new game we are going to play.
"What game is that?"
"Well, I can't tell you that. It's a surprise. I will tell you,
though, that it is set in today's world...in real life. We are going to
create a character that is you--we'll estimate your real strength,
constitution, willpower, intelligence...etc...in game terms, and we'll
give your character skills that you really know in real life. We'll
estimate what level of skill you have in certain areas."
"When we get done, we'll have the best representation of you we can
make, game-wise. Your character's back ground is your real back
ground. Everything you know, the people you know, everything you've
done is also your character's back ground.
"I just came to you as one of your closest friends and asked you to do
something for me...to show up downtown next Thursday at 5 pm. You said
you would do it without any questions asked.
"So, when we set down to play our first session of this game, your
character, who is yourself, will be downtown, meeting me, wondering why
I've called him there. I'll bring out a map of downtown, show you where
you parked, then show you the office building you just entered."
Now, isn't that freaking cool!
Each one of my players is dying to see what will happen when we do our
first session--and they don't even know at this point that we're playing
Top Secret.
When they meet with my gamemaster character, me, I'll tell them of how I
was at lunch one day, and I met this man....
I'll tell them how I've been secretly recruited into this organization
known as ORION and how they've had me doing research for them. ORION
became interested in a racist organization called Free White America
just after the dragging death of a black man up in Jasper, Texas (you
probably heard about that real incident in the news). ORION found out
that the two men accused of dragging that black man to his death were
associated with the FWA.
As I did my research in my spare time for the organization, I was also
able to link some of the burnings of black churches (also a real news
item) across the nation to this FWA.
Recently, due somewhat to my research, ORION has found that the FWA has
been smuggling weapons up from Latin America. They're coming in through
the Houston Ship Channel, and from here, they're moving over land to San
Francisco.
Now, I told ORION that I needed help. I couldn't complete all the
research work that needed to be done by myself. So, they told me to
recruit some help. I suggested my closest friends...and ORION did some
surveilance on them and did back ground checks.
They're cleared. And the meeting on the 63rd Floor of Two Houston
Center is the meeting where I'm going to ask them to come help us in
ORION.
It's just research....there's no danger involved....
That's when the machine guns will erupt out in the office lobby.
Ever see Three Days of the Condor?
And, with that, I am signing off from the TML. I want to say thanks to
everyone here for letting me participate, although I've not been that
active lately.
I'm not sure if and when I'll be back. It may be in a year or two...or
it may be tomorrow.
But, I know that I'll miss this list. Of all the game lists that I've
ever been on, THIS ONE IS DEFINITELY THE BEST.
There is no comparison.
Adios,
Kenneth.
PS I bet I'll be back when Marc releases T5....
PPS If you are interested in Top Secret, you may want to try the
mailing list: just send an e-mail to:
tssi-subscribe@egroups.com
Or, check out ORION HQ, a Club at the Excite web site, at:
http://clubs.excite.com/comm/area/pw/welcome/main.asp?cid=.CSiUSCI2cxO&aid=22&auth=
Or, check the net...three are a handfull of TS web sites out there
(about five or so).
- --------------F15A6DC9A2904AF93F5CD213
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Well, I've been on the TML for a few years now, and today it's time for
me to sign off--at least for a while anyway.
My group and I played a 5 year D&D campaign, followed by a 3 year
Traveller campaign, and that was followed by a 2 and a half year Star Wars
campaign.
We're actually moving on to another game now. This is a bit off-topic,
but some of you might think this is neat--and maybe use the idea in your
Traveller games.
The game we're going to is TSR's out-of-print spy game, Top Secret/S.I. If you haven't played this before, or don't know much about it, it's prettydoggone cool.
Top Secret/S.I. is the second edition of their old game, called simplyTop Secret. There are multiple spy-related genres to choose from. They've got supplements to help you run an old, 30's style game where you are going to places like Casablanca, fighting Nazis and Japs, and the hair on the back of your neck stands up whenever you see anyone wearing a fidora and a trench coat.
Or, you can go to the other extreme, and play a futuristic game, usingpowered armor and other futuristic-mercenary type of equipment. You can run a game where the spy organization exists in a universe with SuperHeroes--like the X-Men.
You can run a realistic, hard-core, Tom Clancy-ish game, or you can use the universe the basic game is set in--and that's the here and now, on this planet, today, with a James Bond flare.
That last genre is the one we will be using, albeit I'm going to runthe game much more realistically than what you see in most Bond films (if you've ever read any of the excellent Flemming or Gardner novels, you have a pretty good idea of where and when our game will be set).
It's interesting how we're starting this new campaign.
I went to player, who are also some of my closet friends. Without telling them that this had anything to do with role playing--in fact, I came across as earnest as I could, I asked them for an extreme favor.
I'd say, "Man, I have a huge favor to ask. I wouldn't ask if itweren't important, and this is very, very important. I know you're going to want to know why, but all I can do is ask you to trust me--becauseI can't give you a reason that I'm asking this right now...
"I need you to show up downtown (Houston), at 5:00 pm, next Thursday, on the 63rd floor of Two Houston Center. I know this will be a sacrifice for you with your wife/job/kid/etc, but I really, really need you there. Will you do that for me without asking questions that I cannot answer atthis time?"
To a person, each of my players, my friends, said yes. They'dbe there.
Then, I went on to tell them that what I had just asked them was bullshit--Iwas setting up the new game we are going to play.
"What game is that?"
"Well, I can't tell you that. It's a surprise. I will tellyou, though, that it is set in today's world...in real life. We are going to create a character that is you--we'll estimate your real strength, constitution, willpower, intelligence...etc...in game terms, and we'll give your character skills that you really know in real life. We'll estimate what level of skill you have in certain areas."
"When we get done, we'll have the best representation of you we can make, game-wise. Your character's back ground is your real back ground. Everything you know, the people you know, everything you've done is alsoyour character's back ground.
"I just came to you as one of your closest friends and asked you to do something for me...to show up downtown next Thursday at 5 pm. You said you would do it without any questions asked.
"So, when we set down to play our first session of this game, your character, who is yourself, will be downtown, meeting me, wondering why I've called him there. I'll bring out a map of downtown, show you where you parked,then show you the office building you just entered."
Now, isn't that freaking cool!
Each one of my players is dying to see what will happen when we do ourfirst session--and they don't even know at this point that we're playingTop Secret.
When they meet with my gamemaster character, me, I'll tell them of how I was at lunch one day, and I met this man....
I'll tell them how I've been secretly recruited into this organizationknown as ORION and how they've had me doing research for them. ORION became interested in a racist organization called Free White America just after the dragging death of a black man up in Jasper, Texas (you probably heard about that real incident in the news). ORION found out that the two men accused of dragging that black man to his death were associatedwith the FWA.
As I did my research in my spare time for the organization, I was alsoable to link some of the burnings of black churches (also a real news item) across the nation to this FWA.
Recently, due somewhat to my research, ORION has found that the FWAhas been smuggling weapons up from Latin America. They're coming in through the Houston Ship Channel, and from here, they're moving overland to San Francisco.
Now, I told ORION that I needed help. I couldn't complete all the research work that needed to be done by myself. So, they told me to recruit some help. I suggested my closest friends...and ORION did some surveilance on them and did back ground checks.
They're cleared. And the meeting on the 63rd Floor of Two Houston Center is the meeting where I'm going to ask them to come help us in ORION.
It's just research....there's no danger involved....
That's when the machine guns will erupt out in the office lobby.
Ever see Three Days of the Condor?
And, with that, I am signing off from the TML. I want to say thanks to everyone here for letting me participate, although I've not been that active lately.
I'm not sure if and when I'll be back. It may be in a year ortwo...or it may be tomorrow.
But, I know that I'll miss this list. Of all the game lists thatI've ever been on, THIS ONE IS DEFINITELY THE BEST.
There is no comparison.
Adios,
Kenneth.
PS I bet I'll be back when Marc releases T5....
PPS If you are interested in Top Secret, you may want to try the mailing list: just send an e-mail to:
tssi-subscribe@egroups.com
Or, check out ORION HQ, a Club at the Exciteweb site, at:
http://clubs.excite.com/comm/area/pw/welcome/main.asp?cid=.CSiUSCI2cxO&aid=22&auth=
Or, check the net...three are a handfull ofTS web sites out there (about five or so).
- --------------F15A6DC9A2904AF93F5CD213--
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1885
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Traveller-digest Tuesday, February 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1886
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: 3I Hardware
Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
Re: Much ado about art.
Jesse's pics
RE: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Ranks and names (Extremely OT)
Spinal Mounts
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Ranks and names
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
RE: Jesse's pics
RE: Much ado about art.
Social Impact Statements
Day length and clock conversions
Re: Poul Anderson
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 17:58:36 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: 3I Hardware
Russell Bornschlegel wrote:
> Well, to go back to semiconductors as an example, I could imagine an
> agency with no clue about IC *design* that nonetheless had a good
> understanding of IC *fabrication*, and given the chip blueprints
> could turn out plenty of 'em. A fab house like that can, in fact,
> make substantial improvements in the process, in order to improve
> yields, without affecting the design or performance of the product.
>
> Likewise, I imagine that, say, most of the companies in the Imperium
> which can manufacture a jump drive couldn't design one.
I really meant "not understood by the culture as a whole" in some vague and
unspecified sense. For example, although the IC fab guys may not understand
the ins and outs of IC design, there are people today who do, so someone in
my vague and unspecified "culture as a whole" does.
Similarly, there must be longhaired professors of physics somewhere in the
3I who really understand the physics of jump drives. They probably have
hordes of grad students writing dissertations on why or why not J-9 is
possible, while their counterparts in the Terran Studies department are
writing dissertations on the language used to describe jump drives in
Shakespeare.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 17:28:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
In mail you write:
>>I understand that he gets laughed at a lot in prison...
>>
>>"See that guy over there?"
>>"Yeah..."
>>"Lemmee tell you what he did..."
>>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>
> Very different behaviour to what is socially normal in Australian
> gaols, one Never inquires or discusses anothers sentence without approval.
> It's a good way of getting put in hospital, a young bloke was put in a coma
> a few years back in Long Bay for doing just that.
From what I as told by an ex-con I used to know, in the Us, it's pretty
much common knowledge what you are in for. And it affects your "status"
inside. Child molesters tend to serve *really* hard time...
And if you don't hook up with one of the "gangs", "brotherhoods" or
whatever inside, anybody who does belong to one can do pretty much
anything he cares to to you.
So an idiot like that is a standing joke to the rest of the inmates,
even if he *does* manage to get some status otherwise.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 17:34:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
In mail you write:
> Try reading the Red Mars books by Kim Stanley Robinson for ideas.
>
> On your suggestion:
>
> To raise the hydrosphere percentage, you must *first* have an
> atmosphere sufficiently dense that the rate of condensation exceeds
> the rate of evaporation (otherwise you are just building a humid
> atmosphere).
>
> To raise the atmosphere percentage, the world must be sufficiently
> large to prevent outgassing (that is, big worlds are easier to do, but
> require more atmospheric gas).
"Outgassing" is the emission of gas by a solid, like the planet. I
suspect that you meant "Large enough to retain the atmosphere over long
timescales".
I used "long timescales" on purpose. If we gave the moon a breathable
atmosphere, it'd take multiple thousands of years to lose enough air to
be a problem. Various sources give differeing estimates, but the
minimum one is around 10k years, max is more than 100k.
So an *asteroid* (or a size 1 world) might lose atmosphere rather too
fast to be practical, but larger worlds can retain it long enough to be
worth while, even if the change won't be permanent.
> You must also ensure that the upper levels of atmosphere are
> significantly hotter and thus less dense that the lower levels to
> build a suitable density gradient. The easiest way to do that is to
> pump greenhouse gasses into the air in huge quantities and then to
> heat the lower atmosphere using either heat pumps such as open
> exchangers at nuclear stations or massive moholes (the Red Mars books
> explain these well).
Huh? The above makes no sense.
You *automatically* get a density gradient because of gravity. And
there's no way to change that other than *very* temporarily.
Likewise, the temp of various atmospheric layers depends on the
incoming radiation (both from the star and from the surface of the
planet), the composition of the layer, and the pressure.
> Having got a relatively stable atmosphere, then you can introduce the
> water either from outside or from buried or frozen resources. Oxygen
> is a bastard to introduce, because it is so reactive, so you pile in a
> **lot** of non-reactive gas such as nitrogen followed by a lot of
> carbon dioxide.
Actually, you just introduce water. A lot will wind up in the
atmosphere, and in the upper atmosphere it will get broken up into
hydrogen and oxygen by UV. The hydrogen will leave (eventually) and the
oxygen will convert to ozone). Of course, with K and M type stars,
there will be less UV. Also, the hydrogen loss (and the UV brealkdown)
take a *long* time. They are significant over gelogical timespans,
probably even over *historical* timespans. But not over human lifetimes.
So if the pressure is low enough when you start, the water will be a
gas. And help build the surface pressure. Also, water vapor is a
greenhouse gas. It'll help retain heat.
Once the pressure gets high enough, clouds (other than ones of ice
crystals) can form, and liquid water can exist on the surface. You'll
get the first rains (and a *lot* of erosion!). And given that much of
the atmosphere is water at this time, the condensation of all that
water will create a significant pressure drop, and thus *winds*.
Weather will be "intersting" for a long time.
As has been discussed on the list before, the best bet is to grab
comets, and "ice" from outer planets, and the Oort cloud. This ice will
have greater or lesser amounts ammonia ice and methane ice as you go
farther from the star.
The ammonia will (eventually) wind up as nitrogen, and the methane will
eventually wind up as CO2.
2 NH3 + uv -> 2 N2 + 3 H2
2 H2O + CH4 + uv -> CO2 + 4 H2
That second "reaction" is an "overall reaction", that is, there are a
*lot* of intermediate steps.
The hydrogen will accumulate in the upper atmosphere, and eventually
escape. And seeding with the right sort of bacteria will speed the
reactions, as well as produce oxygen. And in the presence of free
oxygen, both ammoina and methane break down even faster.
The ammonia also is *much* easier for soil bacteria to fix as nitrates.
> Finally, you introduce nitrogen-fixing bacteria into the soil in huge
> quantities, dump extravagant amounts of plants everywhere you can
> reach and provide minimal levels of oxygen near the plants - leave
> them to make enough of their own. Algae would probably be best, but
> they are lousy for setting up a stable ecology.
>
> When all that is done, you introduce people, plants and animals and
> leave them in a mess for (as best as we can see from Earth examples)
> around 50 years to settle into a reasonable ecology.
Alas, it'll take more than 50 years fr the geology and weather to
stabilize!
As noted above, and in another post, terraforming will cause *major*
erosion (as in turning the Rockies into the Appalachians in mere
*decades*) which leads to a lot of tectonic activity (quakes, volcanos,
etc) as the crust tries to find a new balance.
The presence of large amounts of water will lubricate fault lines as it
sinks into the ground, too. So that gives *more* quakes.
A lot of the quake activity is avoidable if the planet's interior has
cooled below the point at which the mantle can flow. Alas, that means
that ther won't be any volcanic activity, which means that the carbon
cycle (and possibly others) will be broken. The ecosystem will lose
carbon to the deep ocean and never get it back. And the same will hold
for things like phosporus. It may take a long time, but the planet's
ecology will eventually run into *real* trouble that way. Better to
live with the volcanos and quakes.
To recap, my take on terraforming is that the simplest way is to just
"dump" (at as low a speed as is practical) a lot of "icy" material from
the outer system on the planet.
This gives a mix of water, methane, and ammonia on the surface. You'll
get some heating from the impacts, and the water will give a greenhouse
effect. Left to itself, you'd eventually get an atmosphere of nitrogen,
water and CO2. And it'd eventually all bleed into space, leaving you
back where you started. But both "eventually"s are longer than we care
to wait. Hundreds of thousands, to millions of years.
So we need to add some bacteria that can convert this mix (methane,
ammonia, and water) to a normal atmosphere. This will *still* take a
long time, but a lot less than anything we can do with any sort of
machinery or surface installations.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 21:13:13 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Much ado about art.
From: Boris Cibic
> To start a new thread, what is the overall opinion on Traveller
> artwork?
Overall?
As a whole, I think that the original JTAS contained some of the best RPG
art of all time, and by far I think, as a whole, the best artwork of any
Traveller line. Why it was the best is a little difficult to explain. There
was a certain experimental boldness. There were a lot of unconventional
compositions, and quite a few separate and distinct styles. The compositions
always seemed to line up wonderfully with the subject matter in the
articles. I don't mean that they were accurate or faithful to the articles
(which for the most part, they were) but that the composition seemed to
always fit the article.
I am drooling (figuratively, of course) for Marc Miller's release of all of
the JTASes. The only thing I'm worried about is how the covers will be
handled.
There was also something in JTAS which hasn't be recaptured in any Traveller
line since, and I suspect it probably never will be. I mention it every time
the subject of Traveller art comes up, and this will be no exception: there
was a "visual tapestry," of sorts. Previously, I had defined it merely as
the actual *content* of the images, what the ships looked like, the general
"feel" of the technology which was portrayed, and so on. There is something
else though, and it's something I hadn't noticed up until recently. There
was a sense, in the JTAS artwork (as well as in the large Traveller Book)
that the people in the pictures were, just that, people.
Yeah, I know that the JTAS wasn't technically a "line", but the LBB's which
were contemporary were pretty light on artwork in general. Still, the LBB's,
when they had art, had that same boldness, which will likely never be
regained.
The artwork for the MegaTraveller line was consistently competent, but the
execution always seemed very stiff and boring. As far as the core books go,
it seems as if the most prolific artists were lazy, or on short deadlines,
or both. Some of Danforth's artwork stood out, for example, but most of it
just didn't seem to work. I also really hated the layout of the art (the
vast majority of it was on the bottom right side of the right hand page).
The Traveller: The New Era line just lost any sense of cohesion or
consistency. Some of the art was good, but the layout looked (both for the
text and pictures) looked extremely rushed. As the TNE line ran out of
steam, the layout just seemed to get worse and worse. The Regency
Sourcebook, although it was a fine product otherwise, had an amateurish
layout which made it problematic to read. The artwork, throughout the line,
seemed rushed as well. Like the JTAS, there were a lot of styles and
compositions, but they never seemed to mesh.
T4. Well, the less said about that the better.
GURPS: Traveller has been getting much better. I think that Jesse DeGraff
and Glenn Grant carry the line. Glenn's compositions *and* subject matter
are consistently top-notch and he's probably one of the best 2D artists
working in the roleplaying industry today. However, he is the only artist
working in the roleplaying game who is capable of actually telling a whole
*story* in a single panel with no words. Not only that, he does it
*consistently* too! Jesse DeGraff's work is fantastic, and it seems to just
get better and better with each new book.
I think that the artwork of James W. Keith, Glenn Grant and Jesse DeGraff
are the very definition of Traveller artwork.
> If Marc is listening DON'T USE the anmie which dominated much of
> T4!
I don't recall any anime being in T4.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:16:08 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Jesse's pics
Dear Folks -
Just a quick note to say I thoroughly recommend Jesse's latest offering, the
Beowulf Free Trader in front of a nebula. I found it last night, forwarded it to
work, and it has now displaced the "other, darker" Beowulf shot as my desktop
background!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:57:27 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Meals Rejected by Eneri
My cousin / room mate John was in the Navy onboard a carrier. He can't
STAND bacon now because of:
1.The way they cooked it. Baked bacon just ain't the same :)
2.A box he saw in the kitchen one day. It read "Grade 4 But Edible" :D
Hasn't been the same since!
Jesse
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Luther
Martin
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:41 AM
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Volker Greimann contributed the following to the bashing of military food:
> Yup. The best thing i ever saw when serving in he military were the
> potato-bags, which were labeled: "Fuer Schweinemast und Bundeswehr" ("For
> Feeding Swine/Pigs and the German Military)...
> Figures, somehow...
I actually liked all of the military food I ate, at least the food we had in
the field. C-Rations were good, except the ham and eggs. Nothing quite hit
the spot like the tuna fish meal when you were very tired and hungry. I even
liked MREs. I don't remember any meals which stood out as being particularly
bad the way ham and eggs did.
The food at mess halls is another story. I never could eat that stuff.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:23:15 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Ranks and names (Extremely OT)
Dear Folks -
Michael asked:
>As for RPG names; What are some favourties out thar in the gaming world? Any
>hidden jokes, humerous slightly altered names to taste...
Well, apart from Eyemfrom De Norf, there's Baroness Heidi's right-hand man,
Ritter Klaus Trophobia (even apart from the travel & exploration connotations of
the surname Heyerdahl).
I also rolled up a Vargr ship called something like "Kurrzzaargh" and decided
this meant "Raking Claw". ;-)
I really should write up a "Designer's Notes" page for Tavonni...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:27:28 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Spinal Mounts
>>>
"Trevor, Peter" wrote:
>Dom wrote:
> > I can see me looking at it again, but the spinal mount issue vs
> > effect of missiles etc needs resolving (maybe with a table).
> >
> > This refers to the issue that FT weapons tend to grind away starships
> > and Spinals are currently less lethal than HG.
>
>I remember. Weren't you going to try an automatic threshold
>check instead of normal damage for meson gun hits? (And possibly
>a "to hit" modifier based on configuration?)
Bingo! I knew we'd discussed something but it had passed away in my mind.
I think that the Threshold checks were going to be based on weapon and size;
Hmm. Say light spinals do a single check with a critical on a 6,
heavy do a single check with a critical on a 5 and 6. This is on
every hit...
The harder configurations reduce the hit effects ie reduce chance of
critical so...
Weapon Normal Chance Configs 1,2,7,9
Light Meson 6 None (no extra critical)
Heavy Meson 5,6 6
Or you could leave in the chance of some critical damage getting
through (which I like):
Weapon Normal Chance Configs 1,2,7,9
Light Meson 5,6 6
Heavy Meson 4,5,6 5,6
<<<
That is a very nice system Dom. How are hits generated though, template like the
wave gun, or to hit rolls.
>>>
On top of this Jon Tuffley suggested a single dice role of
catastrophic damage on a spinal hit - ie you roll an extra
catastrophic dice with the criticals. If this comes off a second set
of threshold checks are made, and a new catastrophic check etc etc.
It's the mechanism for beams weapons from the EFSB IIRC.
<<<
Ouch!
>>>
Thoughts?
<<<
Really Nasty. I would have to do some designs and test it, to see survivability
and playability, but coolness it seems.
Darryl
(BTW, can I save the message on the Traveller_FullThrust site?)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:47:33 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> In <4.3.0.33.0.20000208023623.00a605d0@mail.uni-trier.de>, on 02/08/00
> at 02:38 AM, Volker Greimann said:
>
> >At 02:20 08.02.00 , you wrote:
> >>re the subject:
> >>
> >>"Stop - in the name of major wounds"
> >>
> >>Isn't he out-ranked by General Hit Point Loss?
>
> >I always preferred the smilitary trategies by Major Break-Through and
> >General Attack.
> >General Protection-Fault and Major Data-Loss on the other hand, are less
> >well
> >received...
>
> Being less *rank* than you appear to be, I more often deal with Corporal
> Punishment and Private Affairs. It may be Petty, I suppose , but it's
> Chiefly because I don't like Officers.
You spent a lot of time thinking those up, I'll Warrant. OTOH, there is
a Colonel of truth in all that....
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:01:44 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Ranks and names
>As for RPG names; What are some favourties out thar in the gaming world? Any
>hidden jokes, humerous slightly altered names to taste (Clerferson Winton,
>Hdolf Aitler) etc. For fantasy games, hopw about a pantheon made up of Coca
>Cola products - names being altered of course; Kark, Deit Kark (son of
>Kark), Mulo Yulo, Funta, Sprote. All battling the evil forces of Popsu, Deit
>Popsu (son of Popsu), Muntan Dow etc.
The last adventure I ran for my current Traveller game, the PCs intercepted
the crew of a spaceship containing a group of people who were out to save
Emperor Strephon by arranging for the untimely death of the Archduke Dulinor.
This group was, of course, a group of time travellers -- and their names
are distortions of names culled from literary sources:
Dr. Amil Bruen, mad scientist who invented the Time Shift Device
Markin hault-Fleich, his #1 assistant
Vince Leonov, historian
Entoni Rukkers, Pilot
Hari Taskar, security (big guy with big guns)
Tomas J'huker, security (deceased -- was on Dulinor's gig when it blew up)
Griz deJaim, security (sneaky infiltrator type).
The players only recognized a few of them (so far): Hari and Griz. The
actual names they were taken from: Dr. Emmett Brown, Marty McFly,
Leonardo da Vinci, Anthony ("Buck") Rogers, Harry Tasker (True Lies),
T.J. Hooker, and James DeGriz (The Stainless Steel Rat).
(My thanks to J.K. for the assist in coming up with some of the names.)
But if you want to talk strange names, the players named their ship at the
beginning of the campaign: the scout ship Eon Hawk. Think "long period of
time" plus "bird of prey".
- -- g
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:05:32 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Jesse DeGraff wrote:
>
> My cousin / room mate John was in the Navy onboard a carrier. He can't
> STAND bacon now because of:
> 1.The way they cooked it. Baked bacon just ain't the same :)
> 2.A box he saw in the kitchen one day. It read "Grade 4 But Edible" :D
>
> Hasn't been the same since!
Ahhhhh...the days of boot camp where the powdered scrambled eggs had shells
in it and the link sausages looked as if they were just removed from the
animal!
Funny...I *thought* MRE stood for "Meals Refused by Ethiopians"...;PPPPPP
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 18:53:07 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Jesse's pics
Hey, free advertising! I like it :)
BTW, I'm pretty much back to trying to get a pic a day, or at least every
other day, out there on the site. Still excludes weekends though ;)
Jesse
For any new folks:
jdegraff@pacbell.net
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm
"Striving to Produce a Better (Illustrated) Traveller Universe" (tm)
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 7:16 PM
To: traveller@mpgn.com
Subject: Jesse's pics
Dear Folks -
Just a quick note to say I thoroughly recommend Jesse's latest offering, the
Beowulf Free Trader in front of a nebula. I found it last night, forwarded
it to
work, and it has now displaced the "other, darker" Beowulf shot as my
desktop
background!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 18:58:18 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Much ado about art.
GURPS: Traveller has been getting much better. I think that Jesse DeGraff
and Glenn Grant carry the line. Glenn's compositions *and* subject matter
are consistently top-notch and he's probably one of the best 2D artists
working in the roleplaying industry today. However, he is the only artist
working in the roleplaying game who is capable of actually telling a whole
*story* in a single panel with no words. Not only that, he does it
*consistently* too! Jesse DeGraff's work is fantastic, and it seems to just
get better and better with each new book.
I think that the artwork of James W. Keith, Glenn Grant and Jesse DeGraff
are the very definition of Traveller artwork.
- -----
Thank you Chris. That means a lot to me to be held in that company. I
really appreciate the support shown by everyone in general, and I just
wanna' say "Thanks!" to everyone again.
- -----
> If Marc is listening DON'T USE the anmie which dominated much of
> T4!
I don't recall any anime being in T4.
- -----
The only thing I can think of is that he's citing Bryan Gibson's work in
"Emperor's Arsenal", but personally I enjoy his work. He was also in some
MT products...
Best,
Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 22:56:01 -0500
From: Thad Coons
Subject: Social Impact Statements
>It's not farfetched to say that one day people will start
>thinking about the possible negative ramifications of technology
>before they allow them to become household objects.
This past week I sat through 3 hours of lecture from a professor
who spent a summer about 35 years ago in Eskimo villages in
Alaska. He reported some of the effects of introducing TL-6
technology and concepts to a society that was at TL-0. The
impact unbalanced the Eskimo economy and the whole society along
with it.
What would happen to the pace of technological change if every
application for a patent had to include a social impact statement
comparable to the environmental impact statements required for
major construction projects in the US, and if every change to a
patented design, no matter how minor, required an amendment to
the impact statement?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 22:56:04 -0500
From: Thad Coons
Subject: Day length and clock conversions
Last week, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>sol = local solar day (*real* terminology, check the various
>Mars Probe data logs!)
>dura = a division of the sol (invented terminology, swiped from
>David Brin)
>Sols will be *evenly* divided into duras. Duras will likely be
>subdivided decimally (xx.yyyyy) simply because it's easiest, and
>you'll have picked the length of a dura to make subdividing the
>sol in as many ways as is practical (thus allowing for stuff
>like overlapping shifts and shifts of differing length *without*
>making their lengths involve fractions of a dur)
IMTU, Early terran scouts adopted the convention of dividing each
planetary sol into multiples of four dura, so that one dura was
close to one standard hour, but not identical to it. This made
the mental transition from "ship time" to "planet time" and back
reasonably easy. Merchants adopted the convention as well, for
similar reasons.
Ship's officer to new crewman.
Listen up, groundhog. Sols are called days here and ship time is
measured in hours, not duras. Sols and duras are all different lengths, but
the scouts divided them up so a sol is some multiple of four duras and a
dura is close to an hour. Let's say Balmor has a sol of 20 duras and Yubrin
has one of 28. A typical jump is 14 days, so what's that in Balmor and
Yubrin sols?
Newbie: umm..
Officer: Five days for us is six days on Balmor, fifteen makes eighteen,
so about seventeen Balmor sols. Seven days for us is six sols on Yubrin, so
fourteen, makes twelve Yubrin sols. You don't touch a panel on the bridge,
you don't speak to a broker, you don't even set foot on the passenger deck
until you know how to do rough clock conversions in your head.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:20:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Poul Anderson
In mail you write:
> A long time ago, Poul wrote a book on planet/system creation (which I've
> never been able to successfully track down). There was an article in
> Creative
> Computing that had a program for Traveller using some of the info in that
> book.
That's because it was only an *article*. Not an entire book. I'm pretty
sure I've got it in one of the 1950s Astoundings in my storage locker.
Of course, being in storage, I can't dig it out...
Heck, up until the last 20 or so years there wasn't really enough data
for more than an article.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1886
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, February 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1887
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Recoilless and Knock Down (was Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds)
Re: CJ Cherryh
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re MRE's
Re: Silly Names
Re: Computers and Technology
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Traveller Software list?
re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: GT: Metator User Interface
Re: Much ado about art.
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Computers and Technology
re: Choice of Law
Re: Much ado about art.
Re: Much ado about art.
Re: Much ado about art.
Re: Day length and clock conversions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:26:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Recoilless and Knock Down (was Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds)
In mail you write:
> Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>>
>
>> One of my favorite toys in the RTG _Cyberpunk_ game is the "ramjet
>> rifle". Hollow cylindrical round with narrow opening aft and wider opening
>> forward... packed with propellant... the rifle throws the round out with
> a
>> light bit of other propellant and lights the internal supply of the
> round...
>> the longer it flies, the faster it gets...
>>
>
> Ahh, the good ol' gyrojet!
Nope. That was pure rocket. These ae actual *ramjet* rounds.
> they have severe problems, however...they were extremely susceptible to
> crosswinds while in the slower portions of their flight...the broad side
> of a barn was often the only viable target.
The ramjet rounds *have* to be moving at quite a clip when they leave
the barrell, or the "jet" won't burn. About 450 mph or so. So they
aren't affected that way.
> Now, in a zero gee, or vacc environment they'll kivck some serious butt,
> I would think.
Nope, then all they'd have is the velocity they left the barrel with.
No air = no oxidizer = no ramjet
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:16:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: CJ Cherryh
In mail you write:
> In a message dated 00-02-07 19:57:50 EST, you write:
>
> << I mentioned the First In stuff to CJ Cherryh, who seemed interested
> and mentioned she knew SJ. >>
>
> I met CJ about 15 years ago, when she and Steve and I were on a SFWA
> committee together. It was to establish connections between SF authors and
> RPG companies . . . oddly enough, to promote licensing opportunities and to
> prevent casual hi-jacking of copyrights.
Has there ever been a Gurps sourcebook for any of CJ's stuff? If not,
is there a chance of one?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:40:17 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
On 02/08/00 at 11:48 AM, "Douglas E. Berry" said:
>At 12:33 PM 2/8/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>>Being less *rank* than you appear to be, I more often deal with Corporal
>>Punishment and Private Affairs. It may be Petty, I suppose , but it's
>>Chiefly because I don't like Officers.
>God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
>so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
That's good.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:42:35 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re MRE's
>After Six+ months of eating MRE's you forget about women and start
>salavating for british tinnies! ;)
>But after the first trade the brits never would trade for an MRE again.
>
>Heck to get a good story about the Rations, find one from WW2, Vietnam
>etc, and just change the names of the items and locations.
One thing some of the local grunts (US Army Infantry) do is trade with the
zoomies (USAF) for MFI's.
It seems there are always nearly out of date MFI's (Meal, Flight,
Individual) around, and most of the units aren't on flight status, so many
of them specify on the TO&E "Rations, MFI &/or MRE", so units can trade
newer MRE's for older MFI's. MFI's are NOT dehydrated, so they weigh more.
But, they are exactly the same BULK. The guys will happily carry the extra
pound or two of water weight for a few extra days.
Just so you know why, MRE's which aren't FULLY rehydrated will cause
expansion and/or extensive flatulence problems; for personell on flight
status, the reduced pressure at altitude can be a problem (NEVER eat
burritos just before flying in an unpressurized aircraft... Ouch!). So
MFI's are not dehydrated, and thus the air pockets are almost non-existant.
They also taste about the same as "Properly Rehydrated" MRE's (I.E., you
actually follow the rehydration instructions...).
Now, I suspect units willship with a mix of MFI's and MRE's in the
deplyment... and smart CO's will only issue the day of bug-out. Otherwise,
they won't last. (At least one unit up here maintains a stash as a "morale
booster"...)
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:46:29 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Silly Names
Glenn St-Germain wrote:
> But if you want to talk strange names, the players named their ship at the
> beginning of the campaign: the scout ship Eon Hawk. Think "long period of
> time" plus "bird of prey".
Oh, hell, I think I used that gag any number of ways back when I was
young and foolish. There was the _Century_Sparrow_, and who could
forget the _Decade_Canary_.
He probably won't admit it, but we all know Doug probably once played
a character who had a ship called the _Fortnight_Penguin_.
Just watch, he'll deny it.
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:46:54 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology
On 02/08/00 at 04:55 PM, Mark Urbin said:
>> >style will become important. Brass railings, bass-reliefs in
>> >the corridors, thick shag carpeting..
>>Thick shag carpeting in burnt siena and gold; avocado green
>>handheld commo devices; big clunky lamps in the lounge;
>>bell-bottoms on crew uniform trousers and long sideburns ....
>Funny...this is how I envision a SPACE:1889 Etherflyer...
>I've determined that I can build SPACE:1889 Cloud Flyers in
>GURPS:Vehicles, I haven't tried an Etherflyer yet.
I really, *really* want to play in a SPACE:1889 game. Anybody want
to run a PBEM?
>Need a Hiver of a handwave to fit that into a fairly standard TU.
Pshaw! Export late 19th century colonialism to the stars...maybe a
2300/S:1889 cross...now that would be a hoot.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:52:15 -0600
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
On 02/09/00 at 11:03 AM, "Rupert Boleyn" said:
>> More than once. GDW was accused of stealing the Ancients from Fred Pohl
>> and of stealing the Aslan from CJ Cherryh, among other things. Used to
>> happen every few months, back in the bad old days.
>I thought the Aslan were stolen from Niven :) That stikes me as a much
>more viable claim, seeing as Niven's Kzinti were fairly generic "felines
>in space" in his earlier work.
I really don't see the Kzinti in the Aslan. The sexes are all wrong
for one thing. I think it's fair to say that the Aslan weren't
stolen from anywhere. We'll have to completely blame the staff of
GDW for them.
Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pcola.gulf.net using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:04:09 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
From: Thad Coons
> This past week I sat through 3 hours of lecture from a professor
> who spent a summer about 35 years ago in Eskimo villages in
> Alaska. He reported some of the effects of introducing TL-6
> technology and concepts to a society that was at TL-0. The
> impact unbalanced the Eskimo economy and the whole society
> along with it.
Yep. There are a number of cases like this. Matches blew out the entire
moral underpinnings of an African village.
> What would happen to the pace of technological change if every
> application for a patent had to include a social impact statement
> comparable to the environmental impact statements required for
> major construction projects in the US, and if every change to a
> patented design, no matter how minor, required an amendment to
> the impact statement?
It would certainly slow technological development, but there are also big
problems. The first one being the fundamental difference between social
scientists and physical or natural scientists. The two are very different.
Social sciences are not actually scientific disciplines at all. The kind of
data which can be acquired through environmental impact studies are of an
entirely different nature than those which could be gained through a social
impact study.
However, the idea is not without merit, and I'll probably steal it for
limited use in my campaign. The imagery is just too cool -- anthropologists,
folklorists, psychologists, sociologists, lingusts -- all trying to figure
out what makes a society "tick", so to speak.
"Well, the natives here seem primed and ready for television and radio, I
think they may be ready for the alphabet too. We can have a school system up
and running in about two or three months. That doesn't give us much time to
call in the interviewers to pump them for information on the more than 3,000
local plants, so we'd better get crackin'. SuSAG will probably be interested
in those. Pump them for everything you can, actually. The folks back in Core
just love quaint native stories and proverbs. Once the natives start reading
and watching TV they'll forget everything they know in a generation or two.
"They haven't yet developed a sense of time beyond certain broad variations
throughout the day, and a general notion of the seasons. We'll start
introducing the clock and hopefully, by the time we get the schools up and
running we can move them up to the calender. Television and radio should
help to ease the transition for them.
"So, those are the bare minimum requirements that we need to start importing
video tapes. Of course, they'll lose their oral traditions completely. The
heaviest impact will likely be on their religious traditions, which will
have certain cascade effects. The worst hit will be in their morality, but
certain concessions must be made to profit... errr... I mean progress."
- - Memo from Social Development Team #3174 to Enligi Kugaasham, Sub-Sector
Chief #112, (Makhidkarun).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 21:03:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Software list?
In mail you write:
>> Since I now have a halfway decent Mac (SE 30, 20 meg RAM, 200 meg HD,
>> ethernet card), I figure it's about time to start picking up various
>
> Halfway decent? Shoot, that's a killer system given the right software!
Well, I'm comparing it with an AMD K6-2 300 with 64 meg of RAM, and
8-gig HD, and a 10-base-T/100-base-TX ethernet card on the PC side of
things. :-)
>> programs for Traveller. I've got notes on some, but I'm sure I don't
>> have anything like a complete list. So, what I'd like is for folks to
>> reply to this with info about the various programs available. I'll try
>> to consolidate it into a list.
>
> I've got a 'Buz Word Generator' that should run on most any Mac, and my
> ClarisDraw 'Starship Deckplan Templates' on the following webpage:
Well, I don't have Claris, so that doesn't help a lot.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 01:00:50 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Social Impact Statements
Chris Seamans wrote:
>Yep. There are a number of cases like this. Matches blew out the entire
>moral underpinnings of an African village.
If the *only* thing keeping them from having extra-marital
affairs was their tradition of starting a fire after having
sex, them moral underpinnings weren't pinned down all that
tightly in the first place.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 01:30:55 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
From: Smith, Walter
> If the *only* thing keeping them from having extra-marital
> affairs was their tradition of starting a fire after having
> sex, them moral underpinnings weren't pinned down all that
> tightly in the first place.
Wow, that's incredibly arrogant. What, may I ask, are your moral
underpinnings founded on?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:59:24 -0800
From: "James W. Lindsay"
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:48:36, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 12:33 PM 2/8/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >Being less *rank* than you appear to be, I more often deal with Corporal
> >Punishment and Private Affairs. It may be Petty, I suppose , but it's
> >Chiefly because I don't like Officers.
>
> God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
> so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
This brings to mind a certain line from the movie "Space Balls"...
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
Cellular Text Messaging (604-834-0398): http://www.msg.clearnet.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Support bacteria - it's the only culture some people have!
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 02:17:15 -0500
From: "Smith, Walter"
Subject: re: Social Impact Statements
Chris Seamans wrote:
>Wow, that's incredibly arrogant. What, may I ask, are your moral
>underpinnings founded on?
The way I behave when no one's looking.
Seriously Chris, the match situation supposedly removed
*one* restrictor on adulterous behaviour, and we're expected
to believe that these pure, upright natives were suddenly
fornicating like wild animals. Are we really supposed to
think that the only reason these people didn't cheat on
their spouses was because people would see them build a
fire afterwards and put two and two together? As if
breaking one tradition/custom (marital fidelity) wouldn't
lead a person to break another (build a fire after sex)?
I think the matches are getting blamed for a far more
complex social change in this case.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 03:02:32 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
Chris Seamans wrote:
>>
>> Yep. There are a number of cases like this. Matches blew out the entire
>> moral underpinnings of an African village.
Then Walter Smith replies:
>
> If the *only* thing keeping them from having extra-marital
> affairs was their tradition of starting a fire after having
> sex, them moral underpinnings weren't pinned down all that
> tightly in the first place.
Gee, NOW I wonder if that's why men and/or women would light up a cigarette
after the act......:| :|
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 03:44:00 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: GT: Metator User Interface
Robert Prior asks:
>>>Which is more important: output to text files, html files, hardcopy, or
>>>interactive use?
>>
>>Text, man. Text! *TEXT*! (ahem. Sorry for shouting...) I've been hoping
>>and waiting -- something like three years now -- for a Metator that will
>>allow me to save *all* the generated data [not just the system data] to
>>*text* files. Metator has always held out the *promise* of being the
>>coolest thing since tinned anaconda slices, but it has always dangled
>>*just* beyond the point of being really useful to me. Kinda frustrating, eh?
>
>Got you.
>
>Actually, text/html would be easier for me than handling multiple-page
>printouts. Would you be interested in a program that couldn't print itself,
>but did provide you with all the data in a large text file?
That would be just fine. I'd love a combination of interactive use (for
tweaking that can/will cascade to related items) and final output to a text
file. Been meaning to write one myself, but having a useable brain AND
free-time seems impossible these days...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 03:56:42 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Much ado about art.
"Chris Seamans" sez:
>I think that the artwork of James W. Keith, Glenn Grant and Jesse DeGraff
>are the very definition of Traveller artwork.
>
I have to add Liz Danforth and Rob Caswell to that list, with a strong
recommendation for David Dietrich as well...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:23:46 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin"
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> On the other hand, RA rounds suffer from the problem that they have
> *less* knockdown power the closer the target is. That's *not* what you
> want when someone is charging at you!
This is one of the underlying reasons for development of the Dallygun
("dial-a-gun"), for which I'm surprised that Guns Guns Guns! and More
G3! does not provide a conversion.
Two points for those who identify the reference.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:44:12 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin"
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
> From: Volker Greimann
> Yup. The best thing i ever saw when serving in he military were the
> potato-bags, which were labeled: "Fuer Schweinemast und Bundeswehr" ("For
> Feeding Swine/Pigs and the German Military)...
> Figures, somehow...
Of course, no one will be likely to take offense at bags that read, "for
Vargr personnel and K-9 units."
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:48:50 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin"
Subject: Re: Computers and Technology
> From: Mark Urbin
>
> Glenn Goffin puts forth into the Ether:
> > >From: "Douglas E. Berry"
> > >My image of the Imperium has always been rather Victorian.
> > >Since there are not all that many ways to build a free trader,
> > >style will become important. Brass railings, bass-reliefs in
> > >the corridors, thick shag carpeting..
> >Thick shag carpeting in burnt siena and gold; avocado green
> >handheld commo devices; big clunky lamps in the lounge;
> >bell-bottoms on crew uniform trousers and long sideburns ....
>
> Funny...this is how I envision a SPACE:1889 Etherflyer...
One man's 1970s are another's 1880s, I guess.
- --Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:35:56 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin"
Subject: re: Choice of Law
> From: GaryBartz@aol.com
[responding to my comments on choice of forum issues for entities
smaller than megacorporations, with smaller amounts at stake]:
> The New York solution? Any dispute over X money and with a choice of
> law/jurisdiction agreement of New York has automatic jurisdiction in NY
> courts, even if it is not connection to the state?
Well, anything goes as far as Imperial member states. If a world wants
to become a center for interstellar litigation, it can certainly do so.
> Maybe the 3I has the Federal diversity jurisdiction solution? [If you are
> sued in a state, and the other side has a connection to the state and the
> entire defense side has no connections to the state, then you can remove
> the case to a federal court from the state system]
In my Traveller universe, the Imperial judiciary is very small, so it
will only take jurisdiction over very important matters. There is no
law to invoke to force an Imperial court to take jurisdiction. You just
make your best argument (and maybe offer your best bribe -- but the
judges are fairly high Imperial nobles, and even their clerks are well
paid enough to make corruption a costly business).
- --Glenn
(P.S. Your description of federal diversity jurisdiction is not quite
right. It works like this: Amount in controversy exceeds $X ($50,000,
last time I checked a few years ago). No defendant is from the state in
which the action will be filed. No defendant is from the same state as
any plaintiff. If all of that is true, a federal court has subject
matter jurisdiction. That is, the case can be filed in federal court,
or, if it was filed in state court, any defendant can remove it to
federal court.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 03:49:17 -0500
From: Glenn Grant
Subject: Re: Much ado about art.
"Chris Seamans" sez,
>I think that the artwork of James W. Keith, Glenn Grant and Jesse DeGraff
>are the very definition of Traveller artwork.
Wow -- that's high praise indeed, to be placed in such company. Actually,
I am not worthy to sharpen Bill Keith's pencils, but thanks for the kind
words.
Next to W.H. Keith Jr., my favourite CT illustrator was Donna Barr. Such
fluid lines, and expressive figures, and hilarious gags! I'll never
capture the true, manic insanity of a good Traveller firefight like she did
on page 35 of the Traveller book -- the guy firing blind with his gun over
his head, the panicky Vargr screaming for help, the bullets zinging by --
great stuff. I was thinking about that drawing this evening, while working
on a slightly similar promo illustration for _GT: Alien Races III_ (a
couple of beleagered mercs under a Zulu-style assault by waves of enraged
primitive Droyne). Took me about five or six hours. I'd be willing to bet
Donna Barr threw off her perfect little firefight illo in about fifteen
minutes. (Probably while playing a game of Traveller, as well.) *Sigh.*
Thanks again, Chris,
+ GMG +
------------------------Glenn Grant------------------------
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work.
I want to achieve it by not dying." -- Woody Allen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 20:06:07 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Much ado about art.
>>I think that the artwork of James W. Keith, Glenn Grant and Jesse DeGraff
>>are the very definition of Traveller artwork.
>
> I have to add Liz Danforth and Rob Caswell to that list, with a strong
>recommendation for David Dietrich as well...
>GC
I like anything by David Dietrick, he's a marvel IMHO. His depiction of
the Gazelle Close Escort on the cover of the Referees Handbook (MT) is to me
the difinitive version.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 20:12:27 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Much ado about art.
> I like anything by David Dietrick, he's a marvel IMHO. His depiction of
>the Gazelle Close Escort on the cover of the Referees Handbook (MT) is to
me
>the difinitive version.
> Jim
I should have mentioned James Holloway too, I've always liked his illo's
since my first copy of Paranoia. There's always a little story in there.
Jimagain
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 01:57:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Day length and clock conversions
In mail you write:
> Last week, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>sol = local solar day (*real* terminology, check the various
>>Mars Probe data logs!)
>
>>dura = a division of the sol (invented terminology, swiped from
>>David Brin)
>
>>Sols will be *evenly* divided into duras. Duras will likely be
>>subdivided decimally (xx.yyyyy) simply because it's easiest, and
>>you'll have picked the length of a dura to make subdividing the
>>sol in as many ways as is practical (thus allowing for stuff
>>like overlapping shifts and shifts of differing length *without*
>>making their lengths involve fractions of a dur)
>
> IMTU, Early terran scouts adopted the convention of dividing each
> planetary sol into multiples of four dura, so that one dura was
> close to one standard hour, but not identical to it. This made
> the mental transition from "ship time" to "planet time" and back
> reasonably easy. Merchants adopted the convention as well, for
> similar reasons.
Interesting though. Not sure how well it'd work. I'll have to play with
it some. And I'm willing to bet that settlers in some places would
screw it up. If the sol was roughly 18 hours, I'd be *really* tempted
to use 18 duras not 16 or 20. Because 3 shifts of 6 duras (6 hours each),
makes more sense than 4 shifts of 4 duras (4.5 hours each)
> Ship's officer to new crewman.
> Listen up, groundhog. Sols are called days here and ship time is
> measured in hours, not duras. Sols and duras are all different lengths, but
> the scouts divided them up so a sol is some multiple of four duras and a
> dura is close to an hour. Let's say Balmor has a sol of 20 duras and Yubrin
> has one of 28. A typical jump is 14 days, so what's that in Balmor and
> Yubrin sols?
Actually, anybody exposed to science or engineering would know days,
hours, minutes and seconds. Because those get used in engineering
*because* they are constant.
And they'd likely still get used for a lot of things that *don't* need
to relate to the length of the sol. Heck, I bet most world would have
people thinking "A dura is about XX minutes" (if they got lucky) or "A
dura is about XXXX seconds" (if they aren't so lucky).
For example, a Martian sol is 24 hours 39 minutes 36 seconds. So it'll
probably have 24 duras. That's 3699 seconds to a dura, or 61.65 minutes
to a dura. Or 1.0275 hours to the dura.
He'll be used to seeing instructions about "stir for 10 minutes", or
"clean filters every 100 hours of operation" on stuff from off-world.
Or even on stuff for on-world use if there are several planets in
system that are "habitable" enough for folks to worry about the sol.
> Newbie: umm..
>
> Officer: Five days for us is six days on Balmor, fifteen makes eighteen,
> so about seventeen Balmor sols. Seven days for us is six sols on Yubrin, so
> fourteen, makes twelve Yubrin sols. You don't touch a panel on the bridge,
> you don't speak to a broker, you don't even set foot on the passenger deck
> until you know how to do rough clock conversions in your head.
Like I said, *everyone* while be at least *somewhat* familiar with
days, hours, etc. Even if they are usually converting them to "back
home" sols and duras.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1887
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, February 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1888
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Poul Anderson
British Imperialism to the Stars
Re: UNCLASSIFIED Ranks and names (Extremely OT)
Re: big map of Spinward Marches
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1884
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1882
Rations
Re: Social Impact Statements
re: British Imperialism in space
OT: Help needed with HTML tables.
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: big map of Spinward Marches
re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Much ado about Art (list)
Re: Even more to do about art
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 02:24:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
In mail you write:
> From: Thad Coons
>
> Yep. There are a number of cases like this. Matches blew out the entire
> moral underpinnings of an African village.
On the other hand, giving them tech that does something they never had
before may not be as much of a problem.
> However, the idea is not without merit, and I'll probably steal it for
> limited use in my campaign. The imagery is just too cool -- anthropologists,
> folklorists, psychologists, sociologists, lingusts -- all trying to figure
> out what makes a society "tick", so to speak.
>
> "Well, the natives here seem primed and ready for television and radio, I
> think they may be ready for the alphabet too. We can have a school system up
> and running in about two or three months. That doesn't give us much time to
> call in the interviewers to pump them for information on the more than 3,000
> local plants, so we'd better get crackin'. SuSAG will probably be interested
> in those. Pump them for everything you can, actually. The folks back in Core
> just love quaint native stories and proverbs. Once the natives start reading
> and watching TV they'll forget everything they know in a generation or two.
Actually, introducing reading and writing may be a *late* change.
Sinvce "primitive" societies tend to use oral tradition, TV, and radio
fit in ok, and recording devices will merely *supplement* the elders.
Do it right, and the story tellers will cheerfully tell all they know
to the recorders. And then let students use a copy of the tape to
"drill" until they get it well enough to be *worth* the story teller's
time in teaching them the nuances of *how* to tell the story to an
audience.
> "They haven't yet developed a sense of time beyond certain broad variations
> throughout the day, and a general notion of the seasons. We'll start
> introducing the clock and hopefully, by the time we get the schools up and
> running we can move them up to the calender. Television and radio should
> help to ease the transition for them.
Trust me, hunter gathers have a better sense of time of year than
*that*. Except in *very* benign areas, they *need* to know how long
they have until the winter (or rainy season, or whatever other big
change there is) so they can stockpile supplies. And they need to know
the time of year to within a week or so to keep track of what is
getting ripe and what migrating animals to keep an eye out for.
And anybody with agriculture *will* have a reliable calendar! All the
outsiders can do is help them correct errors on the order of a day or
two in *thousands* of years. Remember, the Aztec an Maya were TL0 or
TL1 (I'm too lazy to check the books).
> "So, those are the bare minimum requirements that we need to start importing
> video tapes. Of course, they'll lose their oral traditions completely. The
> heaviest impact will likely be on their religious traditions, which will
> have certain cascade effects. The worst hit will be in their morality, but
> certain concessions must be made to profit... errr... I mean progress."
>
> - Memo from Social Development Team #3174 to Enligi Kugaasham, Sub-Sector
> Chief #112, (Makhidkarun).
Personally, I figure that one of the most likely items to be introduced
and accepted *early* will the equivalent of cell phones. It costs very
little to orbit a constellation of satellites suitable for something
like Motorola's Iridium system. Then hunting parties can stay in
contact with the village, and with each other. And for more organized
societies, the villages can stay in touch with each other.
If they've got video, even better. And they'll be something desirable,
but not *too* disruptive. Desirable enough to get the natives to
harvests or grow things for you.
And they let you supply the natives with weather warnings. If you wish
to minimize disruption, you give just the shaman access to the "weather
channel, and teach him about weather prediction based on satellite
images, and such measuring stations as you may have spread around.
Heck, installing a measuring station in each village you deal with will
help them *and* you.
Likewise teach the appropriate person any medical skills he can use but
doesn't have (and don't be surprised at how much he *does* know).
Working thru the "established authorities" will help hold the society
together.
I like having comm gear as the first imports because they aren't
*obvious*. And it can make for such fun when the PCs *assume* that low
tech natives can't spread the word about them. Or when their native
guide pulls out his comm and checks the weather. :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 07:07:30 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Poul Anderson
Would that be Poul's book, "Is there life on Other worlds":?
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: Poul Anderson
> In a message dated 2/7/00 7:11:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
>
> >
> > I make it a general rule not to write to or otherwise pester the
authors I
> > particularly admire, unless I have legitimate business to discuss. I
> > *hate* the thought of being a "fan-boy."
> >
> > I always intended to dedicate _First In_ to Mr. Anderson, though. My
> > debt to him in general and as a writer is considerable. So I wrote to
> > him long before the book appeared, to ask his permission to make the
> > dedication. He was as gracious as you might expect. I sent him one
> > of my author's copies once the book was in print.
> >
> > I'd heard at second-hand about CJ Cherryh's reaction too. And Steve
> > White sent me a couple of letters care of SJG, with comments and
> > suggestions. Several of the extant errata are due to him, and if/when
> > I get around to writing some JTAS articles to supplement the book
> > the first couple will deal with subjects he raised.
> >
> > All of this was rather unexpected and quite gratifying.
>
> A long time ago, Poul wrote a book on planet/system creation (which I've
> never been able to successfully track down). There was an article in
Creative
> Computing that had a program for Traveller using some of the info in that
> book.
>
> Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 08:23:17 -0400
From: Les_Howie@keane.com
Subject: British Imperialism to the Stars
Eris wrote
>Pshaw! Export late 19th century colonialism to the stars...maybe a
>2300/S:1889 cross...now that would be a hoot.
Now, that would be fun. A bit of alt-history to keep the empires, and a lot of
social inertia.
Of course, most real european Imperialism was a nasty, exploitive, racist
business. You would need some very large scale social handwaves and very
careful tuning to keep enough of a feel to make it "Imperialistic" without it
being something that would make a modern person gag.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 07:54:40 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: UNCLASSIFIED Ranks and names (Extremely OT)
Names I have used :
Lucas trask
Pentadecas
Overhode (The Omnipotent)
Zaran (The Infernal)
Arduin
Calandra Gavrilla
Rhotan
Lord Alaric
Ziir
Chii Var
Chen Chu
Kktk Bzzz (black phraint)
Shana Tirzah
Heeva-etto
Zeul
Tafv
Kelvar del Regius
Belzar (The Unforgivable) (thief) :)
Modris
Rinaldo del Rior
Lola Dafin
Trekker Andros
Aldous carlvan
Lysandra (The Liberator)
Rocco (The Righteous)
Alina Celosia
Tara Vana
Vothar
Alexious Kor
Valda Zira
Just few out of many over the years.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Hughes, Michael"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 6:11 PM
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Ranks and names (Extremely OT)
>
> As for RPG names; What are some favourties out thar in the gaming world?
Any
> hidden jokes, humerous slightly altered names to taste (Clerferson Winton,
> Hdolf Aitler) etc. For fantasy games, hopw about a pantheon made up of
Coca
> Cola products - names being altered of course; Kark, Deit Kark (son of
> Kark), Mulo Yulo, Funta, Sprote. All battling the evil forces of Popsu,
Deit
> Popsu (son of Popsu), Muntan Dow etc.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 01:18:34 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: Re: big map of Spinward Marches
Yes, I think I do. I know I have it in quarters (it was
too big to read into my computer in one shot).
Erwin Fritz wrote:
>
> Does anyone have large map, in digital format, of the Spinward Marches,
> circa 1105 or so? I've recently obtained access to an HP650 plotter
> here, which can print on 36" roll paper, so I was picturing a nice large
> image of the Marches for my study.
> --
> Erwin Fritz
> Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
> http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 04:19:27 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1884
> Hughes, Michael"
> Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Robots, they'll go nutty
>
> Wow, MCr 1.2 for a robot. Maybe paying a pilot, navigator, and sensor
> operator is more economical?
You can not simply compare the costs of the robot itself
to the _salary_ of the crew they replace. You need to
look at the total opportunity cost of ownership.
A flesh & blood crew member requires a stateroom while a robot
does not. If you can free up this stateroom for a passenger
then you can get a good income from it.
Suppose you are on a ship that makes 20 jumps a year.
You project that if you have a spare stateroom you can
fill it with a High Passenger 5 times a year
[Cr 10,000 x 5 = Cr 50,000] and fill it with a Medium
Passenger 10 times a year [Cr 8,000 x 10 = Cr 80,000]
The Cr 130,00 you have just made more than pays for your
robot without even considering the savings on crew salary.
If your crew is living 2 to a stateroom then you are saving
half this much, or Cr 65,000/year, which still pays for
your robot.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:09:17 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1882
In a message dated 00-02-08 10:40:11 EST, you write:
<< I always preferred the smilitary trategies by Major Break-Through
and General Attack.
General Protection-Fault and Major Data-Loss on the other hand, are less
well
received...
>>
What about Corporal Punishment and Private Fantasy?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:09:18 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Rations
In a message dated 00-02-08 14:53:55 EST, you write:
<< Heck to get a good story about the Rations, find one from WW2, Vietnam
etc, and just change the names of the items and locations. >>
I am reliably informed (a couple of my dad's cousins) that American GI's
loved to capture German field rations, because they contained sausages and
good bread. The Germans, OTOH, loved to capture American supplies because
they had honest-to-gosh coffee and that wonderful canned ham (aka Spam). My
uncle (infantry, New Guinea/Philippines/almost Japan) has nothing good to say
about C-rations, except they were usually weevil free.
To close, I offer a Tom Lehrer reference:
"Our old Mess Seargant's tastebuds had been shot off in the war,
But his savory collations add to our esprit d'corps.
Why, to think of all the marvelous ways,
They're using plastics nowadays,
It makes a fella proud to be a soldier!"
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:11:08 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
From: Smith, Walter
> The way I behave when no one's looking.
>
> Seriously Chris, the match situation supposedly removed
> *one* restrictor on adulterous behaviour, and we're expected
> to believe that these pure, upright natives were suddenly
> fornicating like wild animals.
No, not at all. I don't recall that being the case. You're looking at it
from the wrong direction, however. You're looking at it from the individual
point of view, which isn't surprising, since I assume you're from the
industrialized West which preaches that personal choices have no effect on
the larger community.
> Are we really supposed to think that the only reason these people
> didn't cheat on their spouses was because people would see them
> build a fire afterwards and put two and two together?
Nope, nor do *I* believe it. However, it was a society of people. It was a
form of social pressure designed to enforce the morality of the community.
If you go screwing around, the village will find out about it, because you
would have to go to a communal fire pit, in front of everybody. If you were
cheating on your spouse, you would be found out, and ostracized by the
tribe.
In societies which have marriage, this can be very important. Consider how
many murders, or in this case, "crimes of passion" in American society occur
because one spouse (usually male, but sometimes female) believes, or finds
evidence that the other is cheating. How many families are split asunder, by
divorce, separation, constant bickering, which comes from the belief that
one spouse or the other is cheating?
There are good reasons for a society which has marriage to want to continue
the tradition of marriage. They put a moral restriction on cheating, and
enforce those moral restrictions through a system of social pressure. It's
true that not all societies actually *have* a tradition of marriage, so I
really don't want to get into an academic discussion of whether or not a
society *should* have marriage. The point is that this tribe did, and it was
found
An example: After visiting Leonard, who lives on the other side of the camp,
you head home. In the night, you see me walking away from the general
direction of your tent. I'm humming and I've got a big, broad grin on my
face. You go into your tent, and your wife seems to be in an
uncharacterisitically good mood. So, you get to thinking, you put two and
two together. You can't sleep. You get up, and head down to the fire pit.
You ask, "Hey, did anyone see either my wife or Chris to stop by here to get
a bit of fire?" Nobody around there saw me or your wife stop by. Case
closed.
However, the obvious utility which matches have, in starting fires after
unfaithful sex, will change lots of things which nobody thought that would
be effected. Matches take away the community's ability, excercised in an
impersonal fashion, to regulate behavior which is seen to be harmful to the
community as a whole.
The problem wasn't an increase in marital infedility so much as, if I
remember correctly, an increase in violence, including murder. I would
venture to say that there were also problems posed in child rearing as well,
although I don't remember if that was mentioned in the account I read.
> As if breaking one tradition/custom (marital fidelity) wouldn't
> lead a person to break another (build a fire after sex)?
Well, no, it wouldn't naturally lead to that. After all, if your spouse came
home to an unlit fire, she would know that something was up. The guilty
parties would *have* to relight the fire, or their activities would be found
out. You also assume that "light" is the only reason for a fire to be relit,
but that might not be the case.
> I think the matches are getting blamed for a far more
> complex social change in this case.
Possibly, but I don't think that's the case. It *was* a huge change for them
and it screwed up the whole social dynamic of their village. That may or may
not be a *bad* thing (although it appears that it was in this case).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:10:42 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: British Imperialism in space
Les Howlie wrote:
>Of course, most real european Imperialism was a nasty, exploitive, racist
>business. You would need some very large scale social handwaves and >very
>careful tuning to keep enough of a feel to make it "Imperialistic" without it
>being something that would make a modern person gag.
Give the person of today a bit more credit for intestinal fortitude. If
we can read Kipling, Dickens and ER Burroughs without tossing our
cookies, a bit of good old fashioned Interstellar Imperialism should
be nothing big to worry about... ;-)
My worst not-PC moment in a game: Shadowrun, an evil racist thug
insults a good-hearted NPC from India. One of the players thanks me
in a snide voice for teaching them a racist slur they'd never heard before.
I hadn't realized my players were so sheltered.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:21:42 +0000
From: "Greg Aldridge"
Subject: OT: Help needed with HTML tables.
Hi,
Apologies for the off-topic post, but the TML is the best technical
resource I know of.
I've recently started work on my website, and I've decided to go with
public (and TML) opinion, and use tables not frames.
At the moment I'm using the top row of the table for the main menu,
and possibly the first column so a sub-menu.
My question is:
Is there any way to load a page into a cell in the table, the way you
would load a page into a frame? Or do I need the menu (and table) in
the HTML code for every page?
Thanks,
Greg.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Aldridge | "Since light travels faster than sound, isn't
Software Engineer, | that why some people appear bright until you
EASAMS Engineering | hear them speak?"
Systems |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: Greg.Aldridge@marconicomms.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMTU tc tm tn t4+ tg ru+ ge(+) 3i+ c+ jt au- ls+ pi ta-- he as vi sy+ so
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 04:20:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
In mail you write:
>> From: Volker Greimann
>
>> Yup. The best thing i ever saw when serving in he military were the
>> potato-bags, which were labeled: "Fuer Schweinemast und Bundeswehr" ("For
>> Feeding Swine/Pigs and the German Military)...
>> Figures, somehow...
>
> Of course, no one will be likely to take offense at bags that read, "for
> Vargr personnel and K-9 units."
Depending on how you play the Vargr/dog relationship, the Vargr may be
*running* some of the K-9 units.
I figure that either Vargr will be uncomfortable around dogs because
they are *too* close (the reaction a lot of humans have to chimps &
monkeys) or they'll get along just fine *because* they are so close and
share body language, etc. In that latter case, I can see the Vargr
considering the dogs to be sort of like kids who will never grow up. A
bit sad to think about, but as long as they are happy, go with it.
And I can see the dogs easily integrating into a Vargr "pack"
structure.
Actually, come to think of it, given any length of time, I rather
expect that dogs living with Vargr will tend to "revert" (over
generations) to something closer to wolf stock.
And in *that* case, the wolves and the Vargr would be *very* well
integrated, not to the extent that an uplifted species would be, but
probably enough to seem spooky as hell to humans. The wolves would be
"junior partners" in Vargr society. And to the extent that Vargr work
together, their packmates, the woves would work with them.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 04:17:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
In mail you write:
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
>> On the other hand, RA rounds suffer from the problem that they have
>> *less* knockdown power the closer the target is. That's *not* what you
>> want when someone is charging at you!
>
> This is one of the underlying reasons for development of the Dallygun
> ("dial-a-gun"), for which I'm surprised that Guns Guns Guns! and More
> G3! does not provide a conversion.
>
> Two points for those who identify the reference.
Gordon R. Dickson "The Tactics of Mistake".
And just *think* of the fun that could be created by dropping Cletus
Grahame into the Imperium. :-)
You can keep the Dallygun. I want a set of "enablers" from "Wolfling".
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 07:55:35 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: big map of Spinward Marches
Robert James Eaglestone wrote:
>
> Yes, I think I do. I know I have it in quarters (it was
> too big to read into my computer in one shot).
I could probably work with that. Would you be able to email it to me?
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:03:09 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Social Impact Statements
As for the tale of the match and the cheating spouses:
I read it too long ago to recall sufficient detail to make interesting
debate out of it. I think, from Chris' information, that I have
misremembered some details. I recall the feel I got from reading
it, that the answers seemed very pat, perfect for the punchline
of a joke or a sidebar in an intro sociology text. Too perfect, even.
I concede to him that he remembers the information better than
I do, I still recall the impact the article had on me some years ago.
While my feel for the article may have been unfounded, I have great
faith in the creativity of wandering spouses, enough to make me doubt
the Tale of the Evil American Matches.
Walt Smith
Arrogant, Western, *AND* industrialized. Deal with it. ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 16:13:58 +0100 (MET)
From: Tommy Grav
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
On Wed, 9 Feb 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>And in *that* case, the wolves and the Vargr would be *very* well
>integrated, not to the extent that an uplifted species would be, but
>probably enough to seem spooky as hell to humans. The wolves would be
>"junior partners" in Vargr society. And to the extent that Vargr work
>together, their packmates, the woves would work with them.
And can you imagine the fighting forces this would make. A squad of
Vargrs accompanied by several wolfs capable of taking simple orders.
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:12:49 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
From: Leonard Erickson
> On the other hand, giving them tech that does something they never
> had before may not be as much of a problem.
I won't disagree, but usually the decision is made in hindsight.
> Actually, introducing reading and writing may be a *late* change.
> Sinvce "primitive" societies tend to use oral tradition, TV, and radio
> fit in ok, and recording devices will merely *supplement* the elders.
One of the interesting things about "primitive" societies is that folklore
(including, *but not limited to*, by any means narratives) is not usually
held by one person. There is frequently one or more storytellers who are
raised to prominence, but *everyone* is a storyteller at some point... and
pretty frequently.
Remember, though, television and radio will both take away *time* which was
formerly spent in communal storytelling activities.
> Do it right, and the story tellers will cheerfully tell all they know
> to the recorders.
This has been going on for quite some time now. The unfortunate part about
it is that in real life nobody much cares except for anthropologists and
folklorists.
>And then let students use a copy of the tape to "drill" until they get it
> well enough to be *worth* the story teller's time in teaching them the
> nuances of *how* to tell the story to an audience.
This *has* been done from time to time, but it's relatively rare. As anyone
who is good at telling stories, as opposed to public speaking, will tell
you, you *can't* tell a story without a responsive audience. The nuances of
how to react to audience feedback, which is central to telling stories,
simply cannot be taught by reading into a tape player.
You're making it sound like it's a college class on public speaking. :)
> Trust me, hunter gathers have a better sense of time of year than
> *that*. Except in *very* benign areas, they *need* to know how long
> they have until the winter (or rainy season, or whatever other big
> change there is) so they can stockpile supplies.
Leonard, keep in mind the point of my tale was an extended *joke* in which a
whole human society was reduced simply to a cost benefit ratio on the part
of a megacorporation.
For what it's worth, though, I was basing the society on the Torajans, an
agricultural society which has a very general concept of the seasons.
Interestingly, since the introduction of domesticated crops which are able
to grow all year round, the seasons are actually *subjective*. It
theoretically can be all seasons at once to villagers. Funerals, for
example, are only performed in the winter. Now they can be held practically
year round.
> Personally, I figure that one of the most likely items to be introduced
> and accepted *early* will the equivalent of cell phones. It costs very
> little to orbit a constellation of satellites suitable for something
> like Motorola's Iridium system. Then hunting parties can stay in
> contact with the village, and with each other. And for more
> organized societies, the villages can stay in touch with each other.
You're probably right. I wasn't interested in realism, nor was I saying what
I personally would do.
> Likewise teach the appropriate person any medical skills he can
> use but doesn't have (and don't be surprised at how much he *does*
> know).
Actually, Leonard, you're preaching to the choir on this one. I wouldn't be
surprised by what he does know!
> I like having comm gear as the first imports because they aren't
> *obvious*. And it can make for such fun when the PCs *assume*
> that low tech natives can't spread the word about them. Or when
> their native guide pulls out his comm and checks the weather. :-)
I like this one quite a bit! :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 16:05:55 GMT
From: "Boris Cibic"
Subject: Re: Much ado about Art (list)
As the orignator of this thread. May I make a humble suggestion that we
organize these artists into a list? That way we could forward it on the the
appropiate authorities (eg. Far Future & SJG). Those who added before ought
to cut and paste on...sorry I deleted your comments (as I thought only I was
the art freak).
Artists the TML would like to see more of in Traveller products:
Blair Reynolds
Keith Bros.
Jessie DeGraff
Chris Foss (some reservations - keep his ideas for the macro scale eg.
Ancients or ROM artifacts)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:07:35 EST
From: Damage169@cs.com
Subject: Re: Even more to do about art
In a message dated 2/9/00 5:29:50 AM Central Standard Time, GypsyComet writes:
>>I think that the artwork of James W. Keith, Glenn Grant and Jesse DeGraff
>>are the very definition of Traveller artwork.
>>
> I have to add Liz Danforth and Rob Caswell to that list, with a strong
recommendation for David Dietrich as well...
> GC >>
Does anyone know what became of Jeff Dee and John Willingham? They were some
of the best artists I had ever seen, for gaming products anyway. I've always
liked their clear styles (like Danforth and Caswell).
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1888
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, February 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1889
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Dallyguns
RE: Much ado about art.
SPACE:1889/Traveller mix
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Rations
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1882
Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
Poul wrote a book on planet/system creation
RE: robot economics
Re: SPACE:1889/Traveller mix
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Vargr Add-On Packages (was Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri)
German shepherds in sp-a-a-a-ace...
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
re: Spinal Mounts
re: British Imperialism in space
Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
RE: British Imperialism in space
RE: British Imperialism in space
RE: robot economics
Gaming Artists: Where are they now? (was: Re: Even more to do about art)
Task Success/ Failure
Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: JTAS copyright
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:11:13 EST
From: Damage169@cs.com
Subject: Re: Dallyguns
In a message dated 2/9/00 5:29:50 AM Central Standard Time, Glenn M. Goffin
writes:
<< This is one of the underlying reasons for development of the Dallygun
("dial-a-gun"), for which I'm surprised that Guns Guns Guns! and More
G3! does not provide a conversion.
Two points for those who identify the reference.
>>
The main source I know of is from Tactics of Mistake, although it is also
mentioned as a weapon in the old FGU rpg 'Space Opera' (one of my favs).
Doug G. (Simon Jester)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 08:03:12 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Much ado about art.
I've gotta' agree with you there GC. Rob Caswell's ship drawings,
particularly the Free Trader in SOM, were what inspired me to start creating
Traveller ships. Liz's work was always nice, and David Dietrich! I ALWAYS
liked his clean, almost animation style lines and coloring, not to mention
design, in whatever RPG book he was doing.
Jesse
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
GypsyComet@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:57 AM
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: Much ado about art.
"Chris Seamans" sez:
>I think that the artwork of James W. Keith, Glenn Grant and Jesse DeGraff
>are the very definition of Traveller artwork.
>
I have to add Liz Danforth and Rob Caswell to that list, with a strong
recommendation for David Dietrich as well...
GC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:18:09 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: SPACE:1889/Traveller mix
eris@pcola.gulf.net, an admitted hairytick puts forth on the Ether:
>On 02/08/00 at 04:55 PM, Mark Urbin said:
> >> >style will become important. Brass railings, bass-reliefs in
> >> >the corridors, thick shag carpeting..
> >>Thick shag carpeting in burnt siena and gold; avocado green
> >>handheld commo devices; big clunky lamps in the lounge;
> >>bell-bottoms on crew uniform trousers and long sideburns ....
> >Funny...this is how I envision a SPACE:1889 Etherflyer...
> >I've determined that I can build SPACE:1889 Cloud Flyers in
> >GURPS:Vehicles, I haven't tried an Etherflyer yet.
>I really, *really* want to play in a SPACE:1889 game. Anybody want
>to run a PBEM?
> >Need a Hiver of a handwave to fit that into a fairly standard TU.
>Pshaw! Export late 19th century colonialism to the stars...maybe a
>2300/S:1889 cross...now that would be a hoot.
It's that damn Ether propeller make throws a spanner in gearing.
Perhaps a planet with some Ancient planted humans using some old black box
M-Drives (they just *call* them ether propellers) left by the folks who
dropped them there.
Liftwood is another bugaboo that would screw with a STU.
Hmmm...I'm going to have spend more time on my other Traveller cross-over
project.
Would you sign on a ship who's owner/Chief Engineer was a Sons of Ether Mage?
Think of a Far Trader with the fuzzy AIM of a TARDIS across time, space &
dimensions.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"This has the characteristic look and feel of a complete fiasco."
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 07:53:54
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
At 11:03 AM 2/9/2000 +1300, you wrote:
>I thought the Aslan were stolen from Niven :) That stikes me as a much
>more viable claim, seeing as Niven's Kzinti were fairly generic
>"felines in space" in his earlier work.
Hmm.. I never saw the Kzin/Aslan connection beyond the "big intelligent
predators" level. The Aslan are just too polite to be Kzin. Remember,
Speaker-to-Animals was a *diplomat*
>As for the ancients, I seem to remember some sort of "ancient" turning
>up in quite a lot of old style space opera, etc. Of them all I'd say
>that your Traveller ancients are closest to Edmund Cooper's.
I always thought of them as Niven's Slavers.. very old, left lots of toys
behind, big-ass war to end their reign...
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 08:08:19
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Rations
At 09:09 AM 2/9/2000 EST, you wrote:
>I am reliably informed (a couple of my dad's cousins) that American GI's
>loved to capture German field rations, because they contained sausages and
>good bread. The Germans, OTOH, loved to capture American supplies because
>they had honest-to-gosh coffee and that wonderful canned ham (aka Spam). My
>uncle (infantry, New Guinea/Philippines/almost Japan) has nothing good to
>say about C-rations, except they were usually weevil free.
It's a case of both the grass being greener on the other side of the fence
and the desire for something new.
>
>To close, I offer a Tom Lehrer reference:
>
>"Our old Mess Seargant's tastebuds had been shot off in the war,
>But his savory collations add to our esprit d'corps.
>Why, to think of all the marvelous ways,
>They're using plastics nowadays,
>It makes a fella proud to be a soldier!"
ROTFLMAO!
There's a verse in there that describes me to a tee:
"Fred's an intelectual, brings a book to every meal
He likes the deep philosphers like Norman Vincent Peal
He thinks the Army is just the thing
Because he finds it 'broadening'
It make a fella proud to be a soldier!"
My habit of taking a book everywhere became a unit legend. People would
crawl up to me in the middle of the night to ask where I had the book
stashed.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
Egotist: a person more interested in himself than in me.
- -- Ambrose Bierce
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 08:26:04
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1882
At 09:09 AM 2/9/2000 EST, you wrote:
>What about Corporal Punishment and Private Fantasy?
Would you beleive that when I was first at the 3/7 Inf. I was AG on a M-60
fired by PFC Apple?
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 16:31:56 +0000
From: Martin Hardgrave
Subject: Re: Massive handwaving needed ?
In message <3.0.5.16.20000208082626.475fdba6@pop.mindspring.com>,
"Douglas E. Berry" writes
>
>Naw, he was in the same class as the two guys who tried to rip off a Motel
>6 in Little Rock in late 1992.
>
>This was the motel that was hosting President-elect Bill Clinton's Secret
>Service detachment.
>
>"You would have thought they would have noticed all the black Broncos with
>lights in the grill work..." -USSS agent.
Supposedly true story:
One snowy day when there was practically no-one out and about, the then
Prime Minister John Major and his driver/bodyguards were having
breakfast in an otherwise deserted "Little Chef". Another customer
comes in, sees only the one occupied table and says to the men "this
would be a great day to hold this place up" and one of the bodyguards
with a bulge under his jacket said "not such a good day as you might
think".
- --
Martin Hardgrave
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 08:48:19 -0800
From: "Mike Linsenmayer"
Subject: Poul wrote a book on planet/system creation
I have this book at home... I bought it off of amazon.com. it was like 12$.
Who ever asked about this send me an e-mail directly, when I get back home
I will send you the book information. It is a very good detailed resource.
>
> A long time ago, Poul wrote a book on planet/system creation (which I've
> never been able to successfully track down). There was an article in
Creative Computing that had a program for Traveller using some of the info
in that
> book.
>
> Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:34:48 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: robot economics
Peter Newman writes:
>>Wow, MCr 1.2 for a robot. Maybe paying a pilot, navigator, and
>>sensor operator is more economical?
>You can not simply compare the costs of the robot itself
>to the _salary_ of the crew they replace. You need to
>look at the total opportunity cost of ownership.
>A flesh & blood crew member requires a stateroom while a robot
>does not.
>The Cr 130,00 you have just made more than pays for your
>robot without even considering the savings on crew salary.
There are a number of variables that have not been specified.
What is the typical financing on a robot? How long does the
typical robot last? How much upkeep and maintainance does it
require? It may be fair to require some tonnage allotment to
a robot, perhaps from cargo (specialized tools, parts, recharge
equipment, storage). This may be a stretch, but it would be
nice to have some sort of limit on how many robots you can
carry (perhaps just a limit of 1 per stateroom, or up to 8 in
an unoccupied stateroom).
Just to throw out some numbers, what if the compact, high-
performance systems in a robot become unreliable after 10
years (this might lead to "good deals" on some twitchy old
units, purchased from some small aliens that have glowing
eyes and wear brown hooded robes :)). Perhaps the typical
payment plan would last 5 years: with a 20% downpayment on
MCr 1.2 (which amounts to more than 6.5 years of a steward's
salary, IIRC), even without any interest it would require
annual payments of Cr 192,000. Add to this the interest on
the loan and maintainance costs, then spread the costs over
the projected 10-year life of the robot (assuming it is not
stolen or destroyed), and my WAG would be at least
Cr 150,000 per year.
Interestingly enough, your Cr 130,000 per year for the
liberated stateroom plus the cash saved on steward's salary
comes to a very similar figure. Obviously, this depends very
much on the assumptions regarding robot durability, etc., but
with the appropriate choice of limitations, human crews may
continue to be economically feasable.
Now, perhaps someone with more sense than I will correct all
the errors that I have no doubt made :)
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:12:46 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: SPACE:1889/Traveller mix
Mark Urbin wrote:
> Hmmm...I'm going to have spend more time on my other Traveller
> cross-over project.
> Would you sign on a ship who's owner/Chief Engineer was a Sons of
> Ether Mage?
YES! Or perhaps... NO!
At least it would be a life of adventure, no matter how short ;-)
> Think of a Far Trader with the fuzzy AIM of a TARDIS across time,
> space & dimensions.
Would you sign on a ship where the crewmembers had scarfs that went all
the way to their knees, as well as really ugly haircuts?
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 10:22:06 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
>From: Tommy Grav
...
>And can you imagine the fighting forces this would make. A squad of
>Vargrs accompanied by several wolfs capable of taking simple orders.
And can a Vargr leader imagine issuing orders to followers who are
inclined to obey them? :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 14:33:23 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Vargr Add-On Packages (was Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri)
At 10:22 AM 2/9/00 -0800, you wrote:
>>From: Tommy Grav
>...
>>And can you imagine the fighting forces this would make. A squad of
>>Vargrs accompanied by several wolfs capable of taking simple orders.
>
> And can a Vargr leader imagine issuing orders to followers who are
>inclined to obey them? :)
>
Its my understanding that any Vargr who can't make his followers do
as he or she wishes is no Vargr at all.
--Michel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 10:40:41 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: German shepherds in sp-a-a-a-ace...
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
...
>I figure that either Vargr will be uncomfortable around dogs because
>they are *too* close (the reaction a lot of humans have to chimps &
>monkeys) or they'll get along just fine *because* they are so close and
>share body language, etc. In that latter case, I can see the Vargr
>considering the dogs to be sort of like kids who will never grow up. A
>bit sad to think about, but as long as they are happy, go with it.
Considering that Vargr children may not be the most dutiful and
respectful bunch around, something like Terran canids (and eventually
the real thing, perhaps) may be very useful in treating (or attempts
to do so) some personality disorders in Vargr, or for therapeutic
work in general (and as assisting companions for disabled Vargr?).
It might make sense, and throw players observing it a curveball.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 10:38:12
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
At 10:22 AM 2/9/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> And can a Vargr leader imagine issuing orders to followers who are
>inclined to obey them? :)
His Vargr followers would be inclined to follow him, as long as he didn't
screw up and lose charisma.
I've written a few Vargr societies that are more rigid and formal than
Japan under the Shogun. The leaders keep power by carefully arranging
charisma enhancing events and propaganda, but a cultural archetype is the
peasant who rises to power.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:30:26 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: Spinal Mounts
At 23:36 -0500 8/2/00, dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au wrote:
>That is a very nice system Dom. How are hits generated though,
>template like the
>wave gun, or to hit rolls.
If it is in a 45 deg front arc it gets hit... with some special rules
1) PA systems (and this is handwaved) will always hit the first ship
in a straight line to a target. This gives a reason for escorts.
2) Mesons don't have this problem.
IIRC we also operated that spinals take a full turn to recharge after
firing. This makes for a more tactical game....
>Really Nasty. I would have to do some designs and test it, to see
>survivability
>and playability, but coolness it seems.
The changes came because the original draft spinals were too wimpy.
>(BTW, can I save the message on the Traveller_FullThrust site?)
Sure.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:42:59 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: British Imperialism in space
At 11:08 -0500 9/2/00, Walter Smith wrote:
>Give the person of today a bit more credit for intestinal fortitude. If
>we can read Kipling, Dickens and ER Burroughs without tossing our
>cookies, a bit of good old fashioned Interstellar Imperialism should
>be nothing big to worry about... ;-)
Hmm, I seem to remember that several TML members criticised the
Milieu 0 book on the basis that the Imperium behaved too darkly and
brutally in building the early empire. So I suppose it did make
people gag....
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:12:29 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
>From: Les_Howie@keane.com
>Subject: British Imperialism to the Stars
...
>Of course, most real european Imperialism was a nasty, exploitive, racist
>business. You would need some very large scale social handwaves and very
Imperialism in general is exploitative and thus nasty, but the Europeans
didn't actually behave that badly overall. Of course, that's because the
benchmark set by other empires throughout history isn't astoundingly high :|
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 19:07:05 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: British Imperialism in space
Les Howlie wrote:
> Of course, most real european Imperialism was a nasty,
> exploitive, racist business. You would need some very large
> scale social handwaves and very careful tuning to keep enough
> of a feel to make it "Imperialistic" without it being something
> that would make a modern person gag.
Hmmm, you make European Imperialism sound like a bad thing!
Sounds jolly fun to me, and remember: without it there'd be no
USA.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 19:01:33 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: British Imperialism in space
> Hmm, I seem to remember that several TML members criticised the
> Milieu 0 book on the basis that the Imperium behaved too darkly and
> brutally in building the early empire. So I suppose it did make
> people gag....
>
> Dom
I wonder, were these TML members supporters of the TNE introduction
of democracy into the 3I?
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 14:13:39 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: robot economics
I wrote:
>what if the compact, high-performance systems in a robot become
>unreliable after 10 years
>Perhaps the typical payment plan would last 5 years: with a 20%
>downpayment on MCr 1.2, even without any interest it would
>require annual payments of Cr 192,000. Add to this the interest
>on the loan and maintainance costs, then spread the costs over
the projected 10-year life of the robot (assuming it is not stolen
>or destroyed), and my WAG would be at least Cr 150,000 per year.
I worked out the payments in more detail using the PMT
function in Excel. With an interest rate of 0.46452% per
month (which I calculated from the 1/240 per month for
480 months rule in LBB2) on 80% of MCr 1.2, a 5-year loan
would have payments of Cr 18,380 per month (about 1/65 the
total price of the robot). This comes to Cr 220,440 per
year for 5 years. If maintainance costs 1% of the total
price per year, this comes to Cr 12,000 per year for 10
years. You still have to come up with the down payment of
Cr 240,000 right at the start. Thus, if the robot is not
destroyed, lost, or stolen, it will cost you Cr 1,462,202
for 10 years of service, or Cr 146,200 per year.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:35:07 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Gaming Artists: Where are they now? (was: Re: Even more to do about art)
Damage169@cs.com wrote:
> Does anyone know what became of Jeff Dee and John Willingham? They were some
> of the best artists I had ever seen, for gaming products anyway. I've always
> liked their clear styles (like Danforth and Caswell).
Do you mean Bill Willingham? According to:
http://www.clockworkstorybook.com/authors.htm
...his comic, _Coventry_, seems to have been nominated for both an
Eisner in '97 and an Ignatz in '98, and he's got something new coming
soon published by Vertigo.
Jeff Dee appears to be working on Living Legends, a superhero RPG that
seems to be Villains and Vigilantes trying to be more like Hero System
(seems kinda redundant to me, but whatever). His home page:
http://www.io.com/unigames/index.html
Once he's done with Living Legends, he'll probably start working on
a new RPG called Activists and Atheists, where you try to start
flamewars about religion on the Usenet gaming newsgroups. *cough*
(Funny, his photo looks almost exactly like one of his
drawings from Deities and Demigods...)
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 16:31:27 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Task Success/ Failure
I just downloaded the PDF from BITS that describes the relative
conversion between the different task systems in Traveller. Nice, concise
work. Good job.
One question I have, however is not explained. I'm a CT person, and
I routinely see references to "spectacular success" or "spectacular failure"
results on a task. What constitues a "spectacular" result on a task? Is it
a margin on the die roll, snake-eyes vs box-cars, or something else?
Thanks for taking the time!
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:54:36 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
>>Of course, most real european Imperialism was a nasty, exploitive, racist
>>business. You would need some very large scale social handwaves and very
>
> Imperialism in general is exploitative and thus nasty, but the Europeans
>didn't actually behave that badly overall. Of course, that's because the
>benchmark set by other empires throughout history isn't astoundingly high
:|
One could even say that it is the nature of westerners to do something
really nasty and then agonise over it, as if nasty things are not the way of
life.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:47:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
From>: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Depending on how you play the Vargr/dog relationship, the Vargr
>may be *running* some of the K-9 units.
[deletion]
>I can see the Vargr considering the dogs to be sort of like
>kids who will never grow up. A bit sad to think about, but as
>long as they are happy, go with it.
Desmond Morris, in Dogwatching, posits that dogs already see
themselves this way.
>Actually, come to think of it, given any length of time, I
>rather expect that dogs living with Vargr will tend to "revert"
>(over generations) to something closer to wolf stock.
>And in *that* case, the wolves and the Vargr would be *very*
>well integrated, not to the extent that an uplifted species
>would be, but probably enough to seem spooky as hell to humans.
>The wolves would be "junior partners" in Vargr society. And to
>the extent that Vargr work together, their packmates, the woves
>would work with them.
That's just about exactly how I see it in those Vargr cultures
that keep dogs and wolves (of course there is such diversity
among the Vargr that there are doubtless cultures that don't
have anything to do with dogs and wolves).
In my Traveller universe, the Ancients left some un-uplifted
wolf stock (including dire wolves) on worlds in what became the
Vargr Extents. These animals have important religious
connotations to some Vargr groups. They also have significant
commercial value to anyone selling to a Vargr culture that keeps
wolves. Wolf and dog embryos from Terra make a lucrative cargo
in parts of the Extents -- but they are also a target for
vandalism.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:16:56 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: JTAS copyright
Dear Folks -
Eris wrote:
>I really don't see the Kzinti in the Aslan. The sexes are all wrong
>for one thing. I think it's fair to say that the Aslan weren't
>stolen from anywhere. We'll have to completely blame the staff of
>GDW for them.
More like the Keith brothers... (J. Andrew especially...)
BTW, Loren, Doug, I assumed the "with permission" part about the MRE article.
Guess I meant that Loren would be easier to track down than many JTAS
contributors, more likely to say OK, and have none of the problems associated
with quoting a DGP article... ;-)
Doug, rather than a whole sidebar, you may be able to grab a sentence from
Loren's article to use as a "sidebar quote" - eg the bit in there about a
"refreshing alfresco dining experience". Attribute it (with permission of course
;-) either to some SM comedian or the "April Fool's" issue of "Dining Behind The
Claw"... gee, or even a funny article from that famous Imperial military rag,
the "Sun and Shield"[1]..!
[1] OK, _you_ come up with a better equivalent of "Stars and Stripes", OK??!!!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:06:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
I had written:
>>This is one of the underlying reasons for development of the
>>Dallygun ("dial-a-gun"),
>>Two points for those who identify the reference.
>Gordon R. Dickson "The Tactics of Mistake".
Dingdingdingding! we have a winner.
>And just *think* of the fun that could be created by dropping
>Cletus Grahame into the Imperium. :-)
I've often thought that.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1889
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, February 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1890
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Social Impact Statements
cross over adventures
OT: Help needed with HTML tables.
If anyone is bored.... Brubeks
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: cross over adventures
Re: Word Generators
D-Berry - Sorry off TML
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: cross over adventures
Re: If anyone is bored.... Brubeks
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
PBEM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 16:18:05 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Was written:
>> >God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an
officer
>> >so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
>>Good thing i wan´t drinking when i read this one...
Probably had been passed over once and was scared spitless of having to get
a job on the outside. The ones who are a real pain are ring knocker Birds
looking for their Star.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:51:06 -0800
From: "David P. Summers"
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
At 4:20 AM -0800 2/9/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>I figure that either Vargr will be uncomfortable around dogs because
>they are *too* close (the reaction a lot of humans have to chimps &
>monkeys)
Do that many humans feel that way? I've never met any.
> or they'll get along just fine *because* they are so close and
>share body language, etc. In that latter case, I can see the Vargr
>considering the dogs to be sort of like kids who will never grow up. A
>bit sad to think about, but as long as they are happy, go with it.
I think they may see them as "pets" just like humans do with
chimps.
>And I can see the dogs easily integrating into a Vargr "pack"
>structure.
Well, the integrate into the primate (human) pack structure
just fine...
>Actually, come to think of it, given any length of time, I rather
>expect that dogs living with Vargr will tend to "revert" (over
>generations) to something closer to wolf stock.
I think dogs with Vargr will be indistinguishable from those
with humans. Both species are evolved from ancestors that
formed "packs" and the differences in psychology are too high level
for them to appreciate.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:51:49 -0800
From: "David P. Summers"
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
At 7:13 AM -0800 2/9/00, Tommy Grav wrote:
>On Wed, 9 Feb 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>And in *that* case, the wolves and the Vargr would be *very* well
>>integrated, not to the extent that an uplifted species would be, but
>>probably enough to seem spooky as hell to humans. The wolves would be
>>"junior partners" in Vargr society. And to the extent that Vargr work
>>together, their packmates, the woves would work with them.
>
>And can you imagine the fighting forces this would make. A squad of
>Vargrs accompanied by several wolfs capable of taking simple orders.
You mean "trained dogs"? Like the military uses today?
:-)
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:54:21 -0800
From: "David P. Summers"
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
At 10:38 AM -0800 2/9/00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>At 10:22 AM 2/9/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> And can a Vargr leader imagine issuing orders to followers who are
>>inclined to obey them? :)
>
>His Vargr followers would be inclined to follow him, as long as he didn't
>screw up and lose charisma.
>
>I've written a few Vargr societies that are more rigid and formal than
>Japan under the Shogun. The leaders keep power by carefully arranging
>charisma enhancing events and propaganda, but a cultural archetype is the
>peasant who rises to power.
In fact, it can be argued, conversely, that the Japanese society is also
based on rule by the charasmatic (which is why it is so bad to loose
face). Though a difference would be level of individuality
tolerated. I'm not sure how objective that is. All in all,
I think the idea works.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:54:52 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
Dear Folks -
Chris said:
>> As if breaking one tradition/custom (marital fidelity) wouldn't
>> lead a person to break another (build a fire after sex)?
>
>Well, no, it wouldn't naturally lead to that. After all, if your spouse came
>home to an unlit fire, she would know that something was up. The guilty
>parties would *have* to relight the fire, or their activities would be found
>out. You also assume that "light" is the only reason for a fire to be relit,
>but that might not be the case.
Not knowing the full background to this anthropological study, this finally made
me say "aha - that makes more sense!"
To test my "aha" theory, do you mean:
- they would put the fire out BEFORE sex, so no-one could see what they
were doing;
- they had to relight it aferwards;
- therefore they needed to go to the village fire-pit?
- And matches allowed them to relight the fire secretly??
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 16:50:45 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: cross over adventures
>Would you sign on a ship where the crewmembers had scarfs that went all
>the way to their knees, as well as really ugly haircuts?
I thought that was just the Captain? Ok, maybe the blonde, female first
mate too...
Major SF geek that I am, I actually have one of those scarfs, as well as
the original Franz Joseph deck plans...
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/ Opinions Mine!
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:04:08 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: OT: Help needed with HTML tables.
Dear Folks -
Greg asked:
>Is there any way to load a page into a cell in the table, the way you
>would load a page into a frame? Or do I need the menu (and table) in
>the HTML code for every page?
As far as I know, you need the HTML in every page. This is how I have seen it
implemented on every non-frame site I've seen so far. Natch, if you are using
pictures, refer to them with _relative references_, so the browser will load the
majority from cache rather than downloading the same pic for every new page.
This is tha main reason I use frames - you DON'T have to keep loading the menu
stuff. As long as you do the right thing with frames (don't use more than 3,
only change the contents of one frame at a time[1], etc), they should work fine.
And each sub-page contains less repetitive junk, therefore loads more quickly
(viz. my Library Data).
[1] The only time I break this rule is when going from my main Tavonni site to
my Library Data pages. This is because I treat the Library Data as though it
were a separate system - if it ever gets onto Bryan's CD, people can use it
totally independantly of the Beowulf Down website.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 22:34:55 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: If anyone is bored.... Brubeks
Hi all,
I'm going to be hitting Brubeks *now* if anyone wants to chat Traveller etc.
Dom (looking to relax from life ;-))
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 13:56:19
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
At 04:18 PM 2/9/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Probably had been passed over once and was scared spitless of having to get
>a job on the outside. The ones who are a real pain are ring knocker Birds
>looking for their Star.
Naw, the Major used to be Private Minor, until he realized that it was more
fun waving the baton than carrying a tuba.
For a field-grade officer, he wasn't bad.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 14:05:31
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
At 01:54 PM 2/9/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>At 10:38 AM -0800 2/9/00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>>I've written a few Vargr societies that are more rigid and formal than
>>Japan under the Shogun. The leaders keep power by carefully arranging
>>charisma enhancing events and propaganda, but a cultural archetype is the
>>peasant who rises to power.
>
>In fact, it can be argued, conversely, that the Japanese society is also
>based on rule by the charasmatic (which is why it is so bad to loose
>face). Though a difference would be level of individuality
>tolerated. I'm not sure how objective that is. All in all,
>I think the idea works.
I got the idea while re-reading Shogun. No matter the actual power, losing
face could topple you faster than a well-planned rebellion.
So the various warlords of this world (I'm doing this from memory, so it's
a little vague) had to keep their "face" in their followers hearts and minds.
So it was a bit schizophrenic. On one hand (or paw) you have a strictly
totalitarian oligarchy, with near-police state policies.
On the other, the leaders are incredibly generous, and always in the public
eye helping to clean up roadsides, but always shown in larger than life,
social-realist poses.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 14:09:17
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: cross over adventures
At 04:50 PM 2/9/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Major SF geek that I am, I actually have one of those scarfs, as well as
>the original Franz Joseph deck plans...
I used to have a Dr. Who scarf, and Kirsten just finished knitting a
regulation version. How long did it take?
When she started, she was Kirsten Nelson.
The con she was knitting it for went out of businees seven years ago.
We haven't watched Dr. Who in five years.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:44:41 -0500
From: Jeff Zeitlin
Subject: Re: Word Generators
On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:09:11 -0500 (EST), "Luther Martin"
wrote:
>Paul Campbell wrote:
>> I wrote a Word Generator last year as an exercise to learn Delphi 2. (ok its
>> old but it was free with a magazine) It's win32 and uses an MS-Access database
>> to store the language tables. It includes a table editor as-well. If your
>> interested I can try cleaning it up and let you have a copy, including source
>> code.
>I also wrote a word generation program a while back. It was designed to
>either generate English words or Tsolyani (from the Tekumel world). I
>generate a random pattern, and then perform secondary testing against a
>first-order Markov model of English to make sure the words generated are
>somewhat pronouncable by speakers of English. You can set a threshold, and
>any generated words which score below the threshold are disgarded. A higher
>threshold gives more pronouncable words, a lower threshold gives more
>alien-sounding words.
>If I could get a good model for Zhodani words I could easily extend the
>program to cover that case also.
I'd like to see this; the Markov Chain stuff would be
interesting.
I also have a word generator lying around somewhere; it was one
of my early efforts in the Euphoria language, and uses what are
essentially Windows INI files to duplicate the old 3d6 tables
from the early Traveller materials to generate words. I've got
all of the Alien Module language tables available, plus the ones
from the Don Mills Gaming Club. DosWin; anyone on the list can
write me privately if interested. Sufficient interest will get a
Linux port; Euphoria now runs on Linux, and I'm about to start
playing with LoopLinux.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:46:54 -0800
From: "Mike Linsenmayer"
Subject: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
Hey Mr. D. Berry I was in the Army from 1984-1992 - A grunt too... 11BC2
Remember..
I am the Infantry, Queen of Battle! For two centuries I have kept our
Nation safe by Purchasing freedom with my blood. To tyrants I'am the day of
reckoning, and to the oppressed I'm their hope. Where the fighting is thick
est, there am I! I am the Infantry! FOLLOW ME!
or Something like that.................. been like 8 years
Here were I was.....
1984 - 1985 - Fort Benning GA, 1st Platoon, Alpha Company, 1-1-1 Infantry
(Basic)
1985 - 1988 - Fort Knox Kentucky, 4th Platoon, Charlie Company, 4-54
Infantry Battalion / 194th Armored Brigade (Special Weapons)
1989 - 1992 - Fort Benning GA, 1st Platoon, Bravo company, 1st Ranger
Battalion
michael@bigbailey.com
http://www.bigbailey.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:26:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
In mail you write:
> From: Leonard Erickson
>
>> On the other hand, giving them tech that does something they never
>> had before may not be as much of a problem.
>
> I won't disagree, but usually the decision is made in hindsight.
True, but after we've been doing this for a thousand or two years, we
ought to be a *lot* better at it. :-)
>> Actually, introducing reading and writing may be a *late* change.
>> Sinvce "primitive" societies tend to use oral tradition, TV, and radio
>> fit in ok, and recording devices will merely *supplement* the elders.
>
> One of the interesting things about "primitive" societies is that folklore
> (including, *but not limited to*, by any means narratives) is not usually
> held by one person. There is frequently one or more storytellers who are
> raised to prominence, but *everyone* is a storyteller at some point... and
> pretty frequently.
True enough. But, still, having the extra backup can't hurt.
> Remember, though, television and radio will both take away *time* which was
> formerly spent in communal storytelling activities.
Only if you give them radio and tv *programming*. If, as I suggest,
it's used for communication, and for teaching, you won't get the same
effects.
>> Do it right, and the story tellers will cheerfully tell all they know
>> to the recorders.
>
> This has been going on for quite some time now. The unfortunate part about
> it is that in real life nobody much cares except for anthropologists and
> folklorists.
Automatic translation that *works* might make a difference.
>>And then let students use a copy of the tape to "drill" until they get it
>> well enough to be *worth* the story teller's time in teaching them the
>> nuances of *how* to tell the story to an audience.
>
> This *has* been done from time to time, but it's relatively rare. As anyone
> who is good at telling stories, as opposed to public speaking, will tell
> you, you *can't* tell a story without a responsive audience. The nuances of
> how to react to audience feedback, which is central to telling stories,
> simply cannot be taught by reading into a tape player.
>
> You're making it sound like it's a college class on public speaking. :)
I'm thinking of it much like the way I used to learn songs for bardc
circles. You need a lot of repetition to get the words of the song (or
the details of the story) fixed in your mind. This is seperate from
learning the nuances of performance.
Once you've got most of the words/details learned, or at least a few
verses worth, *then* getting together with a storyteller (or an
audience of friends) is much more satisfactory for all concerned.
>> Trust me, hunter gathers have a better sense of time of year than
>> *that*. Except in *very* benign areas, they *need* to know how long
>> they have until the winter (or rainy season, or whatever other big
>> change there is) so they can stockpile supplies.
>
>
>
> Leonard, keep in mind the point of my tale was an extended *joke* in which a
> whole human society was reduced simply to a cost benefit ratio on the part
> of a megacorporation.
Yeah, I know.I was trying to inject a note of reality, just in case
anyone thought it was *really* that way. :-)
> For what it's worth, though, I was basing the society on the Torajans, an
> agricultural society which has a very general concept of the seasons.
> Interestingly, since the introduction of domesticated crops which are able
> to grow all year round, the seasons are actually *subjective*. It
> theoretically can be all seasons at once to villagers. Funerals, for
> example, are only performed in the winter. Now they can be held practically
> year round.
Ok, they live in an "unusual" climate then.
>> Personally, I figure that one of the most likely items to be introduced
>> and accepted *early* will the equivalent of cell phones. It costs very
>> little to orbit a constellation of satellites suitable for something
>> like Motorola's Iridium system. Then hunting parties can stay in
>> contact with the village, and with each other. And for more
>> organized societies, the villages can stay in touch with each other.
>
> You're probably right. I wasn't interested in realism, nor was I saying what
> I personally would do.
I just have a feeling (ok, a "pious hope") that in the long run
*non*-disruptive introduction of tech, and tech uplift are going to
proove more profitable. After all one *common* thread in every culture
that we've trashed here on earth is that at some point that natives
(quite correctly) get pissed at us because they realize that it's *our*
fault their society fell apart. This frequently leads to wars,
rebellions or at least to attacks in dark alleys.
>
>
>> Likewise teach the appropriate person any medical skills he can
>> use but doesn't have (and don't be surprised at how much he *does*
>> know).
>
> Actually, Leonard, you're preaching to the choir on this one. I wouldn't be
> surprised by what he does know!
>
>> I like having comm gear as the first imports because they aren't
>> *obvious*. And it can make for such fun when the PCs *assume*
>> that low tech natives can't spread the word about them. Or when
>> their native guide pulls out his comm and checks the weather. :-)
>
> I like this one quite a bit! :)
Last time this came up, I had the picture being a PC asking the guide
*how* he can tell what the weather will be so well. And the guide goes
on about various signs for some types of weather. And then he pulls out
the comm unit and starts calling up satellite images...
Any society that practices agriculture will give quite a bit for
accurate weather reports. Even hunter-gatherers will want them to some
extent. Societies with armies will want contact with HQ. And so on.
So that sort of thing tells you what sort of "high tech" you can sell.
And at the same time, you consider how to introduce "uplift" type
changes in the culture to advance the tech they can do on their own.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:42:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
In mail you write:
>>From: Tommy Grav
> ...
>>And can you imagine the fighting forces this would make. A squad of
>>Vargrs accompanied by several wolfs capable of taking simple orders.
>
> And can a Vargr leader imagine issuing orders to followers who are
> inclined to obey them? :)
By definition, a Vargr leader is someone who has the charisma/status to
expect exactly that.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:44:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
In mail you write:
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>And in *that* case, the wolves and the Vargr would be *very* well
>>integrated, not to the extent that an uplifted species would be, but
>>probably enough to seem spooky as hell to humans. The wolves would be
>>"junior partners" in Vargr society. And to the extent that Vargr work
>>together, their packmates, the woves would work with them.
>
> And can you imagine the fighting forces this would make. A squad of
> Vargrs accompanied by several wolfs capable of taking simple orders.
Or a "scout team" consisting of a couple of Vargr and a dozen wolves.
The wolves can communicate things to a Vargr that they *can't* to a
human.
For example, they can work a scent from whatever they've found into
their fur and the Vargr can smell it when they "present" it to him. Or
if they can't, the Vargr may have "scent cards, where the wolf can pick
out the card that smells closest to what he found.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:13:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: cross over adventures
In mail you write:
> Major SF geek that I am, I actually have one of those scarfs, as well as
> the original Franz Joseph deck plans...
Speaking of the old Franz Joseph deck plans, has anyone ever tried
making those plans "fit" as a Traveller ship?
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:29:16 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: If anyone is bored.... Brubeks
At 10:34 PM 2/9/00 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I'm going to be hitting Brubeks *now* if anyone wants to chat Traveller etc.
>
>Dom (looking to relax from life ;-))
What is a "Brubecks"? Is that the new name for #traveller ?
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:31:49 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
From: Walter Smith
> As for the tale of the match and the cheating spouses:
>
> I read it too long ago to recall sufficient detail to make interesting
> debate out of it. I think, from Chris' information, that I have
> misremembered some details.
I may have misremembered some too. Being a child of the typographic /
television age my memory isn't as good as it could be. :)
> While my feel for the article may have been unfounded, I have great
> faith in the creativity of wandering spouses, enough to make me
> doubt the Tale of the Evil American Matches.
I think they were Dutch matches, and we all know that the Dutch (like the
Canadians) are bent on a quiet and peaceful form of world domination. The
Canadians attempt to do it by subverting American film and television, while
the Dutch introduce matches... you can be sure that *decriminalized
marijuana* was soon to follow those matches! :)
> Arrogant, Western, *AND* industrialized. Deal with it. ;-)
I'll try! :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:36:10 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
From:
> Not knowing the full background to this anthropological study, this
> finally made me say "aha - that makes more sense!"
>
> To test my "aha" theory, do you mean:
> - they would put the fire out BEFORE sex, so no-one could see
> what they were doing;
If I am remembering correctly, yes.
> - they had to relight it aferwards;
For whatever reason, yes.
> - therefore they needed to go to the village fire-pit?
Yep.
> - And matches allowed them to relight the fire secretly??
Yes. Precisely.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:40:26 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley"
Subject: Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
> From: Leonard Erickson
> Actually, it's hard to justify merely 100 years.
....
> And as I noted, it'd be centuries before the landscape stabilized.
....
> "Fast" terraforming isn't suitable for a planet *I* would care to live
on.
Well, yes. There is a distinct reality problem in this whole exercise.
The goal (my goal) is to handwave open sky colonies in the not too distant
future, with a constraint of not mucking about with existing alien
ecosystems. If you don't insist on open sky colonies, then you can go with
a Cherryh type Station civilisation, but that's not really what I want to
do. Fiddling about with existing ecosystems has its own complexities that
we've discussed in the past, but it mainly falls over if you insist that
there is some point in studying these things, rather than simply destroying
them. This applies in the setting I'm trying to justify, where 99.99% of
humanity still lives on Earth, and has no intention of leaving.
OK, so if terraforming is really such a PITA, (and in reality, yes, it is),
how can we handwave around it?
Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 16:17:36 -0800
From: "Brian Jenkins"
Subject: PBEM
Well ladies and germs I am back after a short hiatus spending many hours getting my new En Garde! PBEM site up. (how many of us old farts remember that one) I am unfortunately having a problem keeping my new FTF traveller group together (Ah the blessings of youth eh?) due to some internal friction in the group (They are fighting about something totally unrelated to the game). So I am looking for more players. Having too much fun to quit. Since I have been pursuing getting this new site of mine up I have been wondering about Travleller as a PBEM game. I know there are some who are doing it and I was wondering how effective it is? And how do you structure it. En Garde is basically a turn oriented game so it lends itself to the PBEM format. But I was wondering how something as free form as traveller can be done that way. So you PBEM refs..I am listening! I am ready to learn masters! Teach me!
Sorry...been spending too much time role playing recently
OBShamelessPlug: for those of you who remember En Garde! or would wish to learn about it you can email me at bjenk@sprintmail.com or you can visit the site at http://home.sprintmail.com/~bjenk/Engarde.htm
You know I had to mention it.
Keep on travellin folks.....gotta go and find some new Traveller players...
Now where did I put the keys to the captains chocolate stash?
Brian Jenkins
bjenk@sprintmail.com
ICQ#1202483 (You can use this you know)
"It pays to be obvious. Especially if you have a reputation for subtlety."
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1890
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Traveller-digest Wednesday, February 9 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1891
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Frames
Re: Poul Anderson
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: JTAS Online
Re: British imperialism, et al.
Re: Social Impact Statements
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Your plastic pal whose fun to be with
Re: JTAS Online
Re: JTAS Online
Re: Game Artists, Where Are they now?
Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
Brubek's
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
Re: If anyone is bored.... Brubeks
Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
OT: Sp1889
Guys with Bad Names
Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
Re: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
Re: Rations...
Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Social Impact Statements
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 16:31:06 -0800
From: "Brian Jenkins"
Subject: Re: Frames
Speaking of frames...does anyone know how I do frames using Netscape Composer?
Vargr ref: Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
OH...I even think that one was weak
Brian Jenkins
bjenk@sprintmail.com
ICQ#1202483
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 19:33:45 EST
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Poul Anderson
In a message dated 2/9/00 8:09:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
> From: "Jory Earl"
> Subject: Re: Poul Anderson
>
> Would that be Poul's book, "Is there life on Other worlds":?
> ____________________________________________________
I don't really recall, except whatever book it was would have to have
been written around 20 years ago now.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 16:39:30 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
Leonard Erickson wrote:
> In mail you write:
> >> I like having comm gear as the first imports because they aren't
> >> *obvious*. And it can make for such fun when the PCs *assume*
> >> that low tech natives can't spread the word about them. Or when
> >> their native guide pulls out his comm and checks the weather. :-)
> >
> > I like this one quite a bit! :)
>
> Last time this came up, I had the picture being a PC asking the guide
> *how* he can tell what the weather will be so well. And the guide goes
> on about various signs for some types of weather. And then he pulls out
> the comm unit and starts calling up satellite images...
I seem to recall a cultural-anthropology cautionary tale...
A researcher in a primitive village is asking how they do things
here. The native he's questioning goes into the elder's hut for
the answer every single time, and finally the researcher asks
if he can talk to the guy in the hut directly. He goes in to
find that the elder in the hut has an old encyclopedia with an
entry on the tribe, from which the answers are coming.
In Mike Resnick's "Kirinyaga" stories (about a terraformed world-or-
asteroid inhabited by Kenyans trying to get back to their "Utopian",
"primitive" tribal state), the tribal shaman - and the strongest
defender of their commitment to low-tech - is the only person with
access to a computer, which he uses primarily to *control* the
weather, and so to predict it accurately, which helps bolster
his reputation with the kids who don't remember Earth. Left alone
for a few generations, everyone *except* the shaman's line will
have forgotten there's a computer involved...
- -Russell B
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:50:49 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
- -----Original Message-----
From: Robert Prior
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Monday, February 07, 2000 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
>>With Pyramid I can easily sort the
>>articles to useful sub-directories and even search for specific subjects.
>>Much easier than a paper magazine.
>>
>>To quote Dr. Egon Spengler "Print is dead."
>>
>>Terry C
>
>How long have you been doing this sort of thing?
>
>Serious question: I've got several _large_ databases that only survive in
>print form, because the software I created them in is no longer available,
>or the disks have died, or I no longer have a computer that can read them.
>
>I've been using a computer since before Traveller was published, so I'm
>extremely aware of just how short the life of digital data is, and how
>little I want to be bothered recopying my data every few years to stay
>technically current.
>
To address this problem I suggest that you burn a CD-R of the data and keep
that.
since it can be used on a standard CD-ROM drive and CD-ROMS show no sign of
going out of style.
I say it's the way to go. also unlike digital media in the past it will
still work 10 years from now.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 19:47:51 EST
From: Damage169@cs.com
Subject: Re: British imperialism, et al.
<< Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 19:01:33 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: British Imperialism in space
I wonder, were these TML members supporters of the TNE introduction
of democracy into the 3I? >>
It was my understanding reading the background for TNE that by the time it
takes place, there IS no 3I, just ashes and ragged survivors.
I just really wished TNE had lasted long enough for me to find out the deal
concerning the 'Dark Emperess'.
Simon Jester (Doug G)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:49:59 -0000
From: "Matthew Bond"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
>>>And then let students use a copy of the tape to "drill" until they get it
>>> well enough to be *worth* the story teller's time in teaching them the
>>> nuances of *how* to tell the story to an audience.
>>
>> This *has* been done from time to time, but it's relatively rare. As
anyone
>> who is good at telling stories, as opposed to public speaking, will tell
>> you, you *can't* tell a story without a responsive audience. The nuances
of
>> how to react to audience feedback, which is central to telling stories,
>> simply cannot be taught by reading into a tape player.
>>
>> You're making it sound like it's a college class on public speaking. :)
>
>I'm thinking of it much like the way I used to learn songs for bardc
>circles. You need a lot of repetition to get the words of the song (or
>the details of the story) fixed in your mind. This is seperate from
>learning the nuances of performance.
>
>Once you've got most of the words/details learned, or at least a few
>verses worth, *then* getting together with a storyteller (or an
>audience of friends) is much more satisfactory for all concerned.
However, you didn't have the benefit of being exposed to these same
stories/songs from childhood, in a culture that would encourage you to begin
telling stories from a very early age... Its similar to learning a language,
the skill is much easier to acquire if immersed in it from birth rather than
learning it from scratch as an adult.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:41:17 +1100
From: "Hughes, Michael"
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Your plastic pal whose fun to be with
Interestingly enough, your Cr 130,000 per year for the liberated stateroom
plus the cash saved on steward's salary comes to a very similar figure.
Obviously, this depends very much on the assumptions regarding robot
durability, etc., but with the appropriate choice of limitations, human
crews may continue to be economically feasable.
Now, perhaps someone with more sense than I will correct all the errors that
I have no doubt made :)
What about fuel cell robots? What effect would that have on life support and
therefore stateroom costs (they're not using freshers or anything and
they're not eating.... I hope; 'Uh Captain, the robot just took a dump in
the fresher whilst eating a hotdog....')
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:11:11 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Robert Prior
>To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
>Date: 07 February 2000 23:10
>Subject: Re: JTAS Online
>
>
>>>With Pyramid I can easily sort the
>>>articles to useful sub-directories and even search for specific subjects.
>>>Much easier than a paper magazine.
>>>
>>>To quote Dr. Egon Spengler "Print is dead."
>>>
>>>Terry C
>>
>>How long have you been doing this sort of thing?
>>
>>Serious question: I've got several _large_ databases that only survive in
>>print form, because the software I created them in is no longer available,
>>or the disks have died, or I no longer have a computer that can read them.
>>
>>I've been using a computer since before Traveller was published, so I'm
>>extremely aware of just how short the life of digital data is, and how
>>little I want to be bothered recopying my data every few years to stay
>>technically current.
>
>
>Well if you save the text as, well... text... it's pretty much future
>proofed, and I don't think bmp's will disappear as a graphic format for
>quite a while...
>
>Matt
That takes care of file-format problems. Not media lifespan, hardware
format, and other issues.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:16:49 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
>On 02/06/00 at 08:42 PM, Robert Prior said:
>
>>Serious question: I've got several _large_ databases that only survive in
>>print form, because the software I created them in is no longer
>>available, or the disks have died, or I no longer have a computer that
>>can read them.
>
>>I've been using a computer since before Traveller was published, so I'm
>>extremely aware of just how short the life of digital data is, and how
>>little I want to be bothered recopying my data every few years to stay
>>technically current.
>
>Rob, I know exactly what you mean. I've got data on old 8" disks
>from *years* and *years* ago that I should have gotten onto paper
>for real long term storage. Trying to get at that data now would be
>more trouble than it's worth, but if it was on paper I could just
>scan back into electronic format if I really needed to. Same thing
>applies to programs I wrote, or bought, for moribund operating
>systems stored on 5 1/4" disks in even less viable file systems.
>
>If it's a problem after 25 years of personal computers, what's it
>like after 3000 years?
Explains the poor state of Traveller computer technology. With 1000 years
of records to convert, the Imperium can't affort to upgrade very often...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 19:59:30 EST
From: Damage169@cs.com
Subject: Re: Game Artists, Where Are they now?
<< Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:35:07 -0800
From: Russell Bornschlegel
Subject: Gaming Artists: Where are they now? (was: Re: Even more to do about
art)
Do you mean Bill Willingham? >>
I'm not sure. The Willingham I'm thinking about did a number of pieces for
various TSR game products in the '80s, especially for early Top Secret
modules (TS001 Operation: Rapidstrike, in particular).
I've seen Bill Willingham's _Coventry_ and it just doesn't seem like the same
style (or similar, it's been 10-15 years)
Simon Jester.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 20:24:58 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
Yeah..you know, if I destroyed the entire planet, I'd really agonize over
it. :)
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
> One could even say that it is the nature of westerners to do something
> really nasty and then agonise over it, as if nasty things are not the way
of
> life.
> Jim
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 19:55:45 CST6CDT
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: Brubek's
I'll be in Brubek's (JTAS site) from 8pm to 9pm central US time...
Andy
Akins
________________________________________________________
True Communications Corporation Your Premier ISP.
"Hometown Service with Worldwide Connectivity"
http://www.truserve.com info@truserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:00:55 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
In a message dated 2/9/00 3:08:27 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
macmanjws@earthlink.net writes:
<< My cousin / room mate John was in the Navy onboard a carrier. He can't
> STAND bacon now because of:
> 1.The way they cooked it. Baked bacon just ain't the same :)
> 2.A box he saw in the kitchen one day. It read "Grade 4 But Edible" :D
>
> Hasn't been the same since!
Ahhhhh...the days of boot camp where the powdered scrambled eggs had shells
in it and the link sausages looked as if they were just removed from the
animal!
Funny...I *thought* MRE stood for "Meals Refused by Ethiopians"...;PPPPPP
>>
When my father was at Fort Dix, in 1962, he had KP duty and saw a site that
chilled him to the day he died...He saw them back a truck into the loading
bay, and unload LOTS of grade A premium Sirloin and other assorted cuts. He
later saw the same meat thrown into pots and BOILED to make into SOS!!! (s**
t on a shingle, or creamed chipped beef on toast to the uninitiated). He
always lamented about the BBQ and grilling party that wasn't....:-(. I never
understood why you would boil a perfectly good steak....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:03:34 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
In a message dated 2/9/00 4:02:15 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
Sapience@compuserve.com writes:
<< What would happen to the pace of technological change if every
application for a patent had to include a social impact statement
comparable to the environmental impact statements required for
major construction projects in the US, and if every change to a
patented design, no matter how minor, required an amendment to
the impact statement? >>
You get the Ziru Sirka? :-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:05:20 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
In a message dated 2/9/00 4:46:34 AM !!!First Boot!!!, eris@pcola.gulf.net
writes:
<< God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
>so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
>>
I never joined the service, because I refused to be called Captain
Kimmel....:-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:24:16 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
>Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
...
>> Imperialism in general is exploitative and thus nasty, but the Europeans
>>didn't actually behave that badly overall. Of course, that's because the
>>benchmark set by other empires throughout history isn't astoundingly high :|
>
> One could even say that it is the nature of westerners to do something
>really nasty and then agonise over it, as if nasty things are not the way
of life.
I don't mind that too much, it's the "do something really nasty and then
claim that we did it to help/didn't do it/it's not our fault/you should be
grateful" bit that nauseates me. I'm not convinced that I'd like the Aslan
though, regardless of how straight-forward they might be.
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:39:37 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: If anyone is bored.... Brubeks
Dear Folks -
Mike asked:
>What is a "Brubecks"? Is that the new name for #traveller ?
The new chat room at SJG. Sorry I'm not at home to chat with you Dom, I hope you
get some takers!
(that's the problem when it's 1.30 pm here but midnight in the UK - how do you
work out a convenient time to chat? ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:52:42 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
Jory Earl wrote:
> Yeah..you know, if I destroyed the entire planet, I'd really agonize over
> it. :)
I don't know was it a really nice planet?
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:47:19 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: OT: Sp1889
>
>I really, *really* want to play in a SPACE:1889 game. Anybody want
>to run a PBEM?
>
I'm willing to try running a Sp1889 PBEM. I haven't run a PBEM, and the one
I play in just fizzled for the second time... (It's under LUG-Trek). If
there are interested players, feel free to contact me off-list.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:44:00 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Guys with Bad Names
>>>Being less *rank* than you appear to be, I more often deal with Corporal
>>>Punishment and Private Affairs. It may be Petty, I suppose , but it's
>>>Chiefly because I don't like Officers.
>
>>God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
>>so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
My mother served under Maj. Major Major, US Army. She's got a set of orders
with his name on them. Late 60's.
I've met Capt. James T. Kirk, USAF. He was assigned to Elemndorf AFB in the
early 90's. Nice guy, but doesn't watch Star Trek.
I met a soldier who was a private, but his first name was Sar. IIRC, it was
actually Sarge... The last name was unpronounceable to one who can
pronounce russian.... but was some slavik voweless name ending in ski.
Quite a start, when first I met him to see "Sarge" in slicksleeves.
Makes the way we came up with Xen Xanfreed as a name for a PC (now a
wandering monster from MTU)... In a fit of MTF induced stupor, the player
described the term he was looking for... one that meant "Mellow, lets life
just kinda happen, eh man? Ya Know?". I said Zen, he wrote Xen. The surname
had to do with some buddy of his having just gotten out of jail.... I think
it was Zanny (Not certain, buy Zanny's folks WERE hippies once, maybe
still... the bust was for marijuanna)... and the comment was made between
tokes "Zan? Freed? Tonight? He gonna Be here?", and it sorta stuck.
anyone want me to explain the wandering monster bit again???
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 22:01:52 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
It was mostly harmless...
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Evyn MacDude"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
>
>
> Jory Earl wrote:
>
> > Yeah..you know, if I destroyed the entire planet, I'd really agonize
over
> > it. :)
>
> I don't know was it a really nice planet?
>
> --
> Evyn...
> TMLUPP:5C7A78
> C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
>
> Wish I was a better person... with more control...
> Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
> Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
> Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
> Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:52:41 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
Mike Linsenmayer wrote:
> I am the Infantry, Queen of Battle! For two centuries I have kept our
> Nation safe by Purchasing freedom with my blood. To tyrants I'am the day
of
> reckoning, and to the oppressed I'm their hope. Where the fighting is
thick
> est, there am I! I am the Infantry! FOLLOW ME!
I seem to recall that the Signal Corps had a similar motto, something like
"Call me when you get there."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:12:20 +1000
From: "The Roc"
Subject: Re: Rations...
Of course, for those of you who know Terry Pratchet's works will know of the
definitive ration... Dwarven Bread! If you have Dwarven Bread you will
never go hungry - because you would eat anything (rocks, timber, leather,
etc.) else to avoid eating it!!
- -- The Roc
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:09 AM
Subject: Rations
> In a message dated 00-02-08 14:53:55 EST, you write:
>
> << Heck to get a good story about the Rations, find one from WW2, Vietnam
> etc, and just change the names of the items and locations. >>
>
> I am reliably informed (a couple of my dad's cousins) that American GI's
> loved to capture German field rations, because they contained sausages and
> good bread. The Germans, OTOH, loved to capture American supplies because
> they had honest-to-gosh coffee and that wonderful canned ham (aka Spam).
My
> uncle (infantry, New Guinea/Philippines/almost Japan) has nothing good to
say
> about C-rations, except they were usually weevil free.
>
> To close, I offer a Tom Lehrer reference:
>
> "Our old Mess Seargant's tastebuds had been shot off in the war,
> But his savory collations add to our esprit d'corps.
> Why, to think of all the marvelous ways,
> They're using plastics nowadays,
> It makes a fella proud to be a soldier!"
>
> LKW
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:12:59 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
Jory Earl wrote:
> It was mostly harmless...
But, we really needed the bypass on the thru-way.
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:10:32 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
Dear Folks -
Chris said:
>> To test my "aha" theory, do you mean:
>> - they would put the fire out BEFORE sex, so no-one could see
>> what they were doing;
>
>If I am remembering correctly, yes.
OK. This was the key required to make the rest of the discussion make sense.
>I think they were Dutch matches, and we all know that the Dutch (like the
>Canadians) are bent on a quiet and peaceful form of world domination.
I don't think the Indonesians would agree with you.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 21:31:32 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/9/00 4:02:15 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
> Sapience@compuserve.com writes:
>
> << What would happen to the pace of technological change if every
> application for a patent had to include a social impact statement
> comparable to the environmental impact statements required for
> major construction projects in the US, and if every change to a
> patented design, no matter how minor, required an amendment to
> the impact statement? >>
>
> You get the Ziru Sirka? :-)
Or worse, you get the Lizards from Harry Turtledove's "Worldwar"
tetralogy-plus- one. IMHO, those critters make the Vilani look like
bomb-throwing anarchists.
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1891
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Traveller-digest Thursday, February 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1892
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re Robots
Re Tasks
Gaming Artists: Where are they now? (was: Re: Even more to do about art)
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Guys with Bad Names
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: THE SLR & GPMG...
Re: PBEM
Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Ground Forces Sidebars (was: Honey, I'm home!!!!)
RE: robot economics
Re: Gaming Artists: Where are they now? (was: Re: Even more to doabout art)
Re: Much ado about Art (list)
RE: Much ado about Art (list)
Re: If anyone is bored.... Brubeks
re: Task Success/ Failure
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
re: Task Success/ Failure
Re: Guys with Bad Names
Re: JTAS Online
Re: Guys with Bad Names
Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:20:03 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Robots
> Now, perhaps someone with more sense than I will correct all
> the errors that I have no doubt made :)
>
>Peez
I'm not quoting it all, Peez, cause it was quite a bit, an not needed for
cogency.
By Bk 8, you can finance robots over fairly long times. From Bk 8, P.30
TL 10 11 12 13 14 15 16+
Life 10 25 40 55 70 85 100+
Max Loan Term 5 12 20 27 35 40 40
in years
with the typical traveller financing methods.
For space requirements, I assume they require a half-bunk (or equivalent).
(1/2 Td.) I got this from the Dragon Magazine article on "Robots in
Traveller". In MT, you can simply figure their chassis size, and figure
about double that if installed, or a half bunk or full bunk as appropriate
based upon shape and size.
Maintenance is 1% of purchase cost each year for the overhaul.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:26:29 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Tasks
> One question I have, however is not explained. I'm a CT person, and
>I routinely see references to "spectacular success" or "spectacular failure"
>results on a task. What constitues a "spectacular" result on a task? Is it
>a margin on the die roll, snake-eyes vs box-cars, or something else?
>
> Thanks for taking the time!
>
> --Michel
>
Under the DGP task system (AKA the MT Task system), if you make the roll by
2+ points, or fail the roll by 2+ points, it's spectacular. Me, I use 4
points. But anyway, it's a matter of degree. Mishaps are not rolled on
simple failures unless they are a natural 2; spectacular failures generally
roll a 2d mishap, and a spectacular that is hazardous or was a natural 2 is
a 3d mishap; obnoxious GM's sometimes use spectacular failure with a
natural 2 of a hazardous task is a 4d mishap.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:41:40 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Gaming Artists: Where are they now? (was: Re: Even more to do about art)
> From: Russell Bornschlegel
> Do you mean Bill Willingham? >>
>
>I'm not sure. The Willingham I'm thinking about did a number of pieces for
>various TSR game products in the '80s, especially for early Top Secret
>modules (TS001 Operation: Rapidstrike, in particular).
>
>I've seen Bill Willingham's _Coventry_ and it just doesn't seem like the same
>style (or similar, it's been 10-15 years)
I wonder if it's the same Bill Willingham who wrote and drew the _Ironwood_
comic. A little on the randy side, but the wife likes the erotic stuff, and
I like the story, and the nubile elven maidens, etc...
I wouldn't mind seing his style of artwork in Traveller products,
especially the erotic stuff... but MWM vetoed that (the erotic stuff)
premptively a while ago.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:45:34 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
Black ICE wrote:
>
> Or worse, you get the Lizards from Harry Turtledove's "Worldwar"
> tetralogy-plus- one. IMHO, those critters make the Vilani look like
> bomb-throwing anarchists.
>
Except when they get their snouts in the ginger, then they want to copulate
all over the place, and then NOTHING gets done!!!! :) :)
Did the Vilani have that sort of a problem when they first came into contact
with Terran humaniti?
btw...Turtledove's "Worldwar" series kicks a**!
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:58:17 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: Guys with Bad Names
"William F. Hostman" wrote:
>
> >>>Being less *rank* than you appear to be, I more often deal with Corporal
> >>>Punishment and Private Affairs. It may be Petty, I suppose , but it's
> >>>Chiefly because I don't like Officers.
> >
> >>God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
> >>so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
There's a doctor here in Calgary whose last name is Doctor. Doctor Joel
Doctor. He's an allergy specialist.
Hmmm, I wonder what his career decision thinking went like when he was
in school ...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:14:19 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
"Josh W. Spencer" wrote:
>
> Black ICE wrote:
> >
> > Or worse, you get the Lizards from Harry Turtledove's "Worldwar"
> > tetralogy-plus- one. IMHO, those critters make the Vilani look like
> > bomb-throwing anarchists.
> >
> Except when they get their snouts in the ginger, then they want to copulate
> all over the place, and then NOTHING gets done!!!! :) :)
I dunno. _Something_ got done, else Sam Yeager wouldn't have custody of
any Lizard eggs....
> Did the Vilani have that sort of a problem when they first came into contact
> with Terran humaniti?
Of _course_! Everyone _knows_ that Solomani women are the most
attractive, desirable females in the galaxy! (At least the ones _I_
know are. Then again, I live in Louisiana now. Your home state's
standards may vary.) Think about it. When Mars needed women, did they
rush off to Vilani space? NO! Did the Bug-Eyed Monsters invade Sylea
in search of babes? NO!!
Besides, would Julie Brown and Geena Davis appeared in a movie entitled
"Zhodani Girls Are Easy"? ;-)
(Unfortunately, Doug seems to have taken the lyrics to "Solomani Girls"
down from his Traveller: The Silly Era page, or I would have referred
you there for further confirmation.)
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:09:44 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: THE SLR & GPMG...
On Sun, 6 Feb 2000 23:53:21 EST, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 2/6/00 10:18:33 PM !!!First Boot!!!, j_pete@bellsouth.net
>writes:
>
><< The M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) chambered in 5.56 is still being
> used.
> The M-60 GPMG chambered in 7.62 is being replaced by the M240G (also
> chambered in 7.62). They tried to fix the problems with the M-60 but
> never entirely succeeded. >>
>
>Ah; thanks...
You're quite welcome.
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"Every citizen [should] be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and the
Romans, and must be that of every free state." -Thomas Jefferson
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:32:47 -0800
From: "Fred's Email"
Subject: Re: PBEM
Hey i'm interested in playing in your traveller campaign...i'm kinda new to
traveller...and i don't know much about the system..so i think i will need
to be taught..hehe....I don't know much about PBeM's..but i'm pretty sure we
could figure it out..
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:35:00 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
>> One could even say that it is the nature of westerners to do
something
>> really nasty and then agonise over it, as if nasty things are not the way
>of
>> life.
>> Jim
>Yeah..you know, if I destroyed the entire planet, I'd really agonize over
>it. :)
I live in one of the few places where westerners pulled off a successful
genocide, in Tasmania. It just seems strange that other places view their
particular genocides as victories against barbarians. I personally think one
death is a tragedy, but the western mindset with it's horror and denial of
death as a natural thing burns things like this into the myth/history of
it's inhabitants. People here have a very hard time realising that their
ancestors murdered an entire race for what they considered good reasons. An
entire planet? We've done worse than that, humans only seem to show true
creativity when slaughter is involved.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:39:56 EST
From: GaryBartz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
In a message dated 2/9/00 10:26:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
<< When my father was at Fort Dix, in 1962, he had KP duty and saw a site
that
chilled him to the day he died...He saw them back a truck into the loading
bay, and unload LOTS of grade A premium Sirloin and other assorted cuts. He
later saw the same meat thrown into pots and BOILED to make into SOS!!! (s**
t on a shingle, or creamed chipped beef on toast to the uninitiated). He
always lamented about the BBQ and grilling party that wasn't....:-(. I never
understood why you would boil a perfectly good steak....
>>
Because it says to on the master meal sheet and the recipe card.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:41:28 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
>When my father was at Fort Dix, in 1962, he had KP duty and saw a site that
>chilled him to the day he died...He saw them back a truck into the loading
>bay, and unload LOTS of grade A premium Sirloin and other assorted cuts. He
>later saw the same meat thrown into pots and BOILED to make into SOS!!!
(s**
>t on a shingle, or creamed chipped beef on toast to the uninitiated). He
>always lamented about the BBQ and grilling party that wasn't....:-(. I
never
>understood why you would boil a perfectly good steak....
In the Australian merchant marine they call the stewards "Fitter and
turners", because they get fit beautiful produce into pots and turn it into
sh*t.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:48:56 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Ground Forces Sidebars (was: Honey, I'm home!!!!)
On Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:48:11 +1000,
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:
>
>f. How are Imperial aliens treated in the military? You could include bits about
>the Aslan Imperial Guard and so on (alien equipment requirements), and even
>those guys who have an innate combat drug (the ones written up as a human minor
>race, somewhere near Vland?? Aargh, can't remember their name!)
>
The Answerin. Challenge #55
================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson j_pete@bellsouth.net
"Every citizen [should] be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and the
Romans, and must be that of every free state." -Thomas Jefferson
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
NOG #74 AirStar Nova 700
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:49:28 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: RE: robot economics
Dear Folks -
Some more data points from _Robots_:
a. Robots, like starships, can be bought over a 40 year period;
b. Robots need annual maintenance costing 1% of the purchase price (eg. a
MCr1.5 robot costs Cr15,000 per year to maintain);
c. In the 3I, the robot's owner is directly responsible (liable) for
_everything_ that the robot does.
The last point, above, may be at least _one_ reason that people steer clear of
robotic pilots.
I guess what I'm saying we should look for, is a character (in-game) explanation
for why the canonical Imperium seems robot-light. The player (game mechanics)
explanation is that (a) they were never explored in great depth before Book 8
came out, and (b) if robots could replace most onboard functions, what are the
PC's going to do? Pretty boring space combat, robot shoots at robot who dodges,
while the PCs keep their heads down in their cabins.
If the character explanation can be economics, fine. If it is that the
Imperium's robot TL or robot development is low, fine again. If it is due to
negative pressure from merchant guilds or worker organisations, OK. If people
are too afraid of being taken to task personally over the actions of their
robot, good. If we say that there are a lot of dumbots (Adv 2) but not many
expert robots, that works as well.
Frank Herbert wanted the Mentats, so outlawed computers.
Whatever it takes, it would be nice to create/compile some in-game reasons to
explain the Imperium's lack of robots. Of course, IYTU, you can do what you
want. ;-)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:43:58 -0500
From: "Chauncey Smith"
Subject: Re: Gaming Artists: Where are they now? (was: Re: Even more to doabout art)
- -----Original Message-----
From: William F. Hostman
To: traveller@mpgn.com
Date: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 10:40 PM
Subject: Gaming Artists: Where are they now? (was: Re: Even more to doabout
art)
>
>I wouldn't mind seing his style of artwork in Traveller products,
>especially the erotic stuff... but MWM vetoed that (the erotic stuff)
>premptively a while ago.
Ok stupid me I'm opening out that can of worms again but I don't believe
that the guidelines created by Mr. Miller was to veto the erotic stuff. I
believe it is possible to write erotic traveller fiction or story lines with
out what he made seem to be just for the sake of being erotic.
Some game copies have had erotic products that was just there to sell the
stock. I believe Mr.. Miller didn't want space bimbo's but will allow lady
Chaderley.
But then again. I'm the same person that said any adventure seen in Disney's
tale spin cartoon was a traveller adventure as well.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:47:12 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: Much ado about Art (list)
>As the orignator of this thread. May I make a humble suggestion that we
>organize these artists into a list? That way we could forward it on the
the
>appropiate authorities (eg. Far Future & SJG). Those who added before
ought
>to cut and paste on...sorry I deleted your comments (as I thought only I
was
>the art freak).
>
>Artists the TML would like to see more of in Traveller products:
>Blair Reynolds
>Keith Bros.
>Jessie DeGraff
>Chris Foss (some reservations - keep his ideas for the macro scale eg.
>Ancients or ROM artifacts)
David Dietrick
James Holloway
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 22:10:39 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Much ado about Art (list)
>As the orignator of this thread. May I make a humble suggestion that we
>organize these artists into a list? That way we could forward it on the
the
>appropiate authorities (eg. Far Future & SJG). Those who added before
ought
>to cut and paste on...sorry I deleted your comments (as I thought only I
was
>the art freak).
>
>Artists the TML would like to see more of in Traveller products:
>Blair Reynolds
>Keith Bros.
>Jessie DeGraff
>Chris Foss (some reservations - keep his ideas for the macro scale eg.
>Ancients or ROM artifacts)
David Dietrick
James Holloway
Well, I can pretty much guarentee you that you'll be seeing more of my stuff
:) I'm currently working on or am slated to work on the following G:T
products from SJG:
1.Alien Races 3
2.Navy
3.Starships (possible cover as well)
4.The Cutter Sourcebook (possible cover as well)
5.Ground Forces (not slated *as such* {i.e. I haven't talked to Loren or
Ashe about it}, but boy have I got some ideas :)
As time progresses and my skill level increases, I hope that the quality of
pictures that I produce will only increase. I wasn't overly happy with some
of the shots I did for Starports, but there were extenuating circumstances
and I was rushed to produce a whole lot in short order. Wouldn't have been
so bad if 1.My system at home hadn't been down for a month, and 2.I hadn't
kept trying to get this one idea I had working for so long. I fixated on it
instead of moving on earlier. Oh well. We live and learn!!!
Thanks for everyone's support,
Jesse
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:42:02 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: Re: If anyone is bored.... Brubeks
At 19:17 -0500 9/2/00, Michel Vaillancourt
wrote:
> >I'm going to be hitting Brubeks *now* if anyone wants to chat Traveller etc.
> What is a "Brubecks"? Is that the new name for #traveller ?
The JTAS MUD/chat room that will run from a java window in a browser...
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:33:20 +0000
From: SD Mooney
Subject: re: Task Success/ Failure
Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
> I just downloaded the PDF from BITS that describes the relative
>conversion between the different task systems in Traveller. Nice, concise
>work. Good job.
Thank you.
> One question I have, however is not explained. I'm a CT person, and
>I routinely see references to "spectacular success" or "spectacular failure"
>results on a task. What constitues a "spectacular" result on a task? Is it
>a margin on the die roll, snake-eyes vs box-cars, or something else?
Spectacular success....
MT - it was a roll exceeding the target number by at least +2 in
combat - it varies damage etc.
T4 - it was a roll of 3 1s (ie only possible greater than difficult)
(three sixes for failure).
TNE and GT I can't recall.
Dom
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com http://www.bits.org.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:40:11 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
On 9 Feb 00, at 21:05, Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 2/9/00 4:46:34 AM !!!First Boot!!!, eris@pcola.gulf.net
> writes:
>
> << God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an
> officer
> >so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
> >>
>
> I never joined the service, because I refused to be called Captain
> Kimmel....:-)
>
Then you should've joined as an enlisted man, that way it'd be
"Corporal Kimmel" :)
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:23:48 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: re: Task Success/ Failure
On 10 Feb 00, at 7:33, SD Mooney wrote:
> Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>
> > I just downloaded the PDF from BITS that describes the relative
> >conversion between the different task systems in Traveller. Nice,
> >concise work. Good job.
>
> Thank you.
>
> > One question I have, however is not explained. I'm a CT person,
> > and
> >I routinely see references to "spectacular success" or "spectacular
> >failure" results on a task. What constitues a "spectacular" result on a
> >task? Is it a margin on the die roll, snake-eyes vs box-cars, or
> >something else?
>
> Spectacular success....
> MT - it was a roll exceeding the target number by at least +2 in
> combat - it varies damage etc.
> T4 - it was a roll of 3 1s (ie only possible greater than difficult)
> (three sixes for failure).
>
> TNE and GT I can't recall.
GT roll a 3 or 4, or 10 less than you needed.
TNE roll 10 less than you needed (doubles damage in combat).
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:58:59 -0600
From: Michael Maley
Subject: Re: Guys with Bad Names
I don't know if you could call them bad names, but in my city we have
doctors with the following names: Dr. Payne: Family Practice, Dr. Peter
Blood: Hematologist, Dr. Bonebreak: Orthopedics, Dr. Mangler, and Dr.
Beavers: Ob/Gyn.
Darkhstarr
"William F. Hostman" wrote:
>
> >>>Being less *rank* than you appear to be, I more often deal with Corporal
> >>>Punishment and Private Affairs. It may be Petty, I suppose , but it's
> >>>Chiefly because I don't like Officers.
> >
> >>God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
> >>so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
>
> My mother served under Maj. Major Major, US Army. She's got a set of orders
> with his name on them. Late 60's.
>
> I've met Capt. James T. Kirk, USAF. He was assigned to Elemndorf AFB in the
> early 90's. Nice guy, but doesn't watch Star Trek.
>
> I met a soldier who was a private, but his first name was Sar. IIRC, it was
> actually Sarge... The last name was unpronounceable to one who can
> pronounce russian.... but was some slavik voweless name ending in ski.
> Quite a start, when first I met him to see "Sarge" in slicksleeves.
>
> Makes the way we came up with Xen Xanfreed as a name for a PC (now a
> wandering monster from MTU)... In a fit of MTF induced stupor, the player
> described the term he was looking for... one that meant "Mellow, lets life
> just kinda happen, eh man? Ya Know?". I said Zen, he wrote Xen. The surname
> had to do with some buddy of his having just gotten out of jail.... I think
> it was Zanny (Not certain, buy Zanny's folks WERE hippies once, maybe
> still... the bust was for marijuanna)... and the comment was made between
> tokes "Zan? Freed? Tonight? He gonna Be here?", and it sorta stuck.
>
> anyone want me to explain the wandering monster bit again???
>
> William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
> interface!"
> Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
> 533
> aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
> IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
> pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:29:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
In mail you write:
> To address this problem I suggest that you burn a CD-R of the data and keep
> that.
> since it can be used on a standard CD-ROM drive and CD-ROMS show no sign of
> going out of style.
> I say it's the way to go. also unlike digital media in the past it will
> still work 10 years from now.
Except that CD-R doesn't store data the same way CDs do. Both can be
read by the same sort of reader, but CDs store the data as "bumps" in a
layer of aluminum covered by plastic.
CD-Rs are *dye* based. And nobody is sure how stable the dyes are over
the long term...
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:37:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Guys with Bad Names
In mail you write:
>>>>Being less *rank* than you appear to be, I more often deal with Corporal
>>>>Punishment and Private Affairs. It may be Petty, I suppose , but it's
>>>>Chiefly because I don't like Officers.
>>
>>>God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
>>>so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
>
> My mother served under Maj. Major Major, US Army. She's got a set of orders
> with his name on them. Late 60's.
And the US has 5-star Generals instead of Field Marshals because Gen.
Marshall did *not* want to be "Marshal Marshall".
> I met a soldier who was a private, but his first name was Sar. IIRC, it was
> actually Sarge... The last name was unpronounceable to one who can
> pronounce russian.... but was some slavik voweless name ending in ski.
> Quite a start, when first I met him to see "Sarge" in slicksleeves.
Sargeant is a not *that* uncommon last name in some paerts of the US.
Which could lead to interesting problems.
BTW, anybody recall the *old* bootcamp tale about this real Sargeant's
Sargeant haranging the new recruits.. "I'm Sgt. Stone and I'm just as
hard as my name..." and the poor wimp of a recruit who just *had* to be
the first one whose name he asked "Private Stonebreaker, sir..." :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:45:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Terraforming (Was Re: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...)
In mail you write:
>> From: Leonard Erickson
>
>> Actually, it's hard to justify merely 100 years.
> ....
>> And as I noted, it'd be centuries before the landscape stabilized.
> ....
>> "Fast" terraforming isn't suitable for a planet *I* would care to live
> on.
>
> Well, yes. There is a distinct reality problem in this whole exercise.
>
> The goal (my goal) is to handwave open sky colonies in the not too distant
> future, with a constraint of not mucking about with existing alien
> ecosystems. If you don't insist on open sky colonies, then you can go with
> a Cherryh type Station civilisation, but that's not really what I want to
> do. Fiddling about with existing ecosystems has its own complexities that
> we've discussed in the past, but it mainly falls over if you insist that
> there is some point in studying these things, rather than simply destroying
> them. This applies in the setting I'm trying to justify, where 99.99% of
> humanity still lives on Earth, and has no intention of leaving.
>
> OK, so if terraforming is really such a PITA, (and in reality, yes, it is),
> how can we handwave around it?
Well, part of the trick is that some things don't take that long. And
it's possible to find "semi-suitable" planets. For example, a
*wonderful* colony site would be a planet where life has gotten to the
complex organism stage, but plants are only just starting to colonize
land. You'd have a breathable atmosphere, but could safely start
turning rock and sand into soil without worrying much about native
life.
In fact, you get much the same situation from the point at which an
oxygen atmosphere stabilizes up until plants start moving onto land.
Which is something like 2/5ths of earths existence so far!
Once life starts moving onto land, things get messier, but they are
still somewhat workable.
This might explain those "garden worlds" with low populations. They are
*slowly* managing to expand their farmlands enough to support the
population, while trying to keep the native ecology out of the farm
areas.
Also, if you have more than just "The Ancients" as civilizations that
rose and then disappeared before Humaniti took to the stars, then we
may find planets *they* terraformed, or partially terraformed.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1892
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Traveller-digest Thursday, February 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1893
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
was RE: British Imperialism in space, now drifting OT
Re: JTAS Online
Re: SPACE:1889/Traveller mix
Re: JTAS Online
Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
Re: SPACE:1889/Traveller mix
RE: was RE: British Imperialism in space, now drifting OT
Re: Ranks
RE: long-term media
re: robot economics
RE: British imperialism, et al.
Re: Robot economics
Re: Artists
Re: Social Impact Statements
Charismatic Oligarchy...
Re: Ranks
re: robot economics
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:05:36 -0400
From: Les_Howie@keane.com
Subject: was RE: British Imperialism in space, now drifting OT
Peter Trevor wrote:
>Hmmm, you make European Imperialism sound like a bad thing!
>Sounds jolly fun to me, and remember: without it there'd be no
>USA.
And you make that sound like a bad thing...
Les, some of who's ancestors were Loyalists during the revolution.
OBTRAV:
There are probably lots of worlds settled by refugees from this or that whose
coluture is twisted by old axe-grinding.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:35:47 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
Aren't CD-Rs sensitive to sunlight as well? Is it possible they could be
erased if left in direct sunlight?
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
> In mail you write:
>
> > To address this problem I suggest that you burn a CD-R of the data and
keep
> > that.
> > since it can be used on a standard CD-ROM drive and CD-ROMS show no sign
of
> > going out of style.
> > I say it's the way to go. also unlike digital media in the past it will
> > still work 10 years from now.
>
> Except that CD-R doesn't store data the same way CDs do. Both can be
> read by the same sort of reader, but CDs store the data as "bumps" in a
> layer of aluminum covered by plastic.
>
> CD-Rs are *dye* based. And nobody is sure how stable the dyes are over
> the long term...
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:34:43 -0600 (CST)
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
Subject: Re: SPACE:1889/Traveller mix
Mark Urbin said:
> eris@pcola.gulf.net, an admitted hairytick puts forth on the Ether:
> >On 02/08/00 at 04:55 PM, Mark Urbin said:
> > >>bell-bottoms on crew uniform trousers and long sideburns ....
> > >Funny...this is how I envision a SPACE:1889 Etherflyer...
> > >I've determined that I can build SPACE:1889 Cloud Flyers in
> > >GURPS:Vehicles, I haven't tried an Etherflyer yet.
> >I really, *really* want to play in a SPACE:1889 game. Anybody want
> >to run a PBEM?
> > >Need a Hiver of a handwave to fit that into a fairly standard TU.
> >Pshaw! Export late 19th century colonialism to the stars...maybe a
> >2300/S:1889 cross...now that would be a hoot.
>
> It's that damn Ether propeller make throws a spanner in gearing.
>
> Perhaps a planet with some Ancient planted humans using some old black box
> M-Drives (they just *call* them ether propellers) left by the folks who
> dropped them there.
>
> Liftwood is another bugaboo that would screw with a STU.
>
Ah, but it has an fine space operatic lineage, so it may not
be as hard to fit in as you think. Anyone besides me remember
Howard Chaykin's early comic, "Ironwolf"? Remember the _Limerick Rake_,
a formidable space cruiser with a hull of anti-gravity wood?
--dragoness
- --
"..all I do is tell the Truth to the gods.. and I may sometimes
use it for a controlling spell because it is so rarely heard."
--Indrajit, the Ramayana
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/ **** cyhiggin@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:22:28 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
Chauncey Smith wrote:
> To address this problem I suggest that you burn a CD-R of the data
> and keep that.
> since it can be used on a standard CD-ROM drive and CD-ROMS show no
> sign of going out of style.
> I say it's the way to go. also unlike digital media in the past it
> will still work 10 years from now.
That really depends. CD-Rs "go bad" after a while. I have had one CD-R
(made two years ago) that now refuses to let me access the files, and a
few others have problems with some of the files on them.
The difference between CD-Rs and other CDs is that a CD-R is not coated
with a protective surface (like the others). Therefore, it has
*significantly* less endurance.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:19:06 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
Evyn MacDude wrote:
>
>
>Jory Earl wrote:
>
>> It was mostly harmless...
>
>But, we really needed the bypass on the thru-way.
ObTrav
Yup, it removed the last significant interstellar jump shadow from any
trade route, thus allowing the TML to stop wondering if being pulled
out of jump by a gravity well altered the jump transit time and allowing
all remaining interstellar jump shadows to be covered by the 1 in 36
misjump rule.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:28:40 -0600
From: Bolie Williams IV
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
At 3:35 PM +1100 2/10/2000, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote:
>>> One could even say that it is the nature of westerners to do
>something
>>> really nasty and then agonise over it, as if nasty things are not the way
>>of
>>> life.
>>> Jim
>
>>Yeah..you know, if I destroyed the entire planet, I'd really agonize over
>>it. :)
>
> I live in one of the few places where westerners pulled off a successful
>genocide, in Tasmania. It just seems strange that other places view their
>particular genocides as victories against barbarians. I personally think one
>death is a tragedy, but the western mindset with it's horror and denial of
>death as a natural thing burns things like this into the myth/history of
>it's inhabitants. People here have a very hard time realising that their
>ancestors murdered an entire race for what they considered good reasons. An
>entire planet? We've done worse than that, humans only seem to show true
>creativity when slaughter is involved.
Well, I'll admit to be "western." I was even born in Texas, so I'm
Western in more ways than one. I'd like to say that I, personally,
don't think that genocide is okay and personally don't think killing
people for economic gain is okay.
Also, I WILL NOT be held responsible for the actions of dead people
over whom I had no control. I did not choose my ancestors and I will
not be held accountable for their actions.
That does not mean that I don't think that situations that were
created in the past shouldn't be fixed and that all people present
today should help out.
So bugger off with your "western mindset" and quit generalizing about
us "westerners".
Bolie IV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:43:07 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: SPACE:1889/Traveller mix
From: Cynthia Higginbotham
> Ah, but it has an fine space operatic lineage, so it may not
> be as hard to fit in as you think. Anyone besides me remember
> Howard Chaykin's early comic, "Ironwolf"? Remember the
> _Limerick Rake_, a formidable space cruiser with a hull of anti-
> gravity wood?
Yep. Great series. It's a shame that it didn't run that long. The family
line of Klein-Hernandez has popped up in my Traveller universe before. :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:04:52 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: was RE: British Imperialism in space, now drifting OT
Les Howie wrote:
> There are probably lots of worlds settled by refugees from
> this or that whose coluture is twisted by old axe-grinding.
Its inevitable: Axe-grinding is the all-time number 1 human passtime.
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:07:29 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ranks
In a message dated 00-02-09 06:26:43 EST, you write:
<< >God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
>so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
That's good.
>>
It is rumored that the reason the US Army's 5-star rank is not called
"Marshal" is that the first one to receive it (and the one who had to approve
it) would have been George Marshall). "I'll be d*mned if anyone's going to
all me 'Marshal Marshall'!"
Dunno if it's true, but it is a good story.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:08:25 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: long-term media
Chauncey Smith writes:
>>I've been using a computer since before Traveller was published,
>>so I'm extremely aware of just how short the life of digital
>>data is, and how little I want to be bothered recopying my data
>>every few years to stay technically current.
>To address this problem I suggest that you burn a CD-R of the data
>and keep that. since it can be used on a standard CD-ROM drive and
>CD-ROMS show no sign of going out of style. I say it's the way to
>go. also unlike digital media in the past it will still work 10
>years from now.
Not that long ago, 5 1/4 inch disks showed no sign of going
out of style. Granted, the CD-ROM will last much longer,
but how hard will it be to find a machine that will read it
in 20 years?
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:01:02 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: robot economics
David Jacques-Watson wrote:
>c. In the 3I, the robot's owner is directly responsible (liable) for
>_everything_ that the robot does.
>
>The last point, above, may be at least _one_ reason that people steer
>clear of robotic pilots.
With regard to Pilots - isn't the ship owner, who presumably owns the
built-in robot pilot, already directly responsible for damage caused by
his ship?
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:09:56 -0000
From: "Trevor, Peter"
Subject: RE: British imperialism, et al.
Simon Jester (Doug G) wrote:
> It was my understanding reading the background for TNE that
> by the time it takes place, there IS no 3I, just ashes and
> ragged survivors.
The Regency (in the Domain of Deneb) was in essence a relatively
unscathed fragment of the 3I. It changed its name, created a
quarentine zone (against Virus), made peace with the Zhodani
Consulate, and started to democratise itself.
> I just really wished TNE had lasted long enough for me to
> find out the deal concerning the 'Dark Emperess'.
Ah, yes. The Empress Wave. Don't we all!
Regards PLST
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 05:12:32 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Robot economics
Ian Ferguson wrote
> Peter Newman writes:
> >>Wow, MCr 1.2 for a robot. Maybe paying a pilot, navigator, and
> >>sensor operator is more economical?
> >You can not simply compare the costs of the robot itself
> >to the _salary_ of the crew they replace. You need to
> >look at the total opportunity cost of ownership.
> >A flesh & blood crew member requires a stateroom while a robot
> >does not.
>
> >The Cr 130,00 you have just made more than pays for your
> >robot without even considering the savings on crew salary.
>
>
> There are a number of variables that have not been specified.
> What is the typical financing on a robot? How long does the
> typical robot last? How much upkeep and maintainance does it
> require? It may be fair to require some tonnage allotment to
> a robot, perhaps from cargo (specialized tools, parts, recharge
> equipment, storage). This may be a stretch, but it would be
> nice to have some sort of limit on how many robots you can
> carry (perhaps just a limit of 1 per stateroom, or up to 8 in
> an unoccupied stateroom).
No such tonnage allotment is mentioned in the rules anywhere,
nor do other pieces of equipment listed in Traveller
rules as requiring more storage space than their actual volume.
I would leave the robot at it's duty station 24/7 if no other
crew member needs to use that work station. If other crew
need that work station it can go park itself in a corner of the
common room or an unoccupied stateroom (which you should have
unless you are hot bunking because whichever living crewman
needs the work station presumably has quarters.
The way I would do it personally is to use the vehicle
storage rules. [You could after all design a robot
that could carry passengers, therefore a robot can be
considered a vehicle.]
Designate a cargo space for the robot to
rest in. If this space is 2x its volume maintenance tasks
on it are +1 Diff. If this space is 4X its volume
maintenance tasks are of standard difficulty. Lets say our
robot is about human sized or 100 liters. Therefore it
needs 400 liters of space assuming you want to be able to
maintain it easily or 200 liters of space if you don't
care about that. One Dt is 13,500 liters so 400 liters
is 0.03 ton. 0.03 ton is such a small space that it
can be ignored for all practical purposes on all but
the most crowded ships. Therefore storage space for
human sized robots is insignificant. If you do designate
such a space I'd put it (in order of preference) next
to their duty station, the electronics shop, the machine
shop, the ships locker, or the cargo bay. Remember a robot
is a machine and canon does not specify that nonfunctioning
machines need extra storage space.
Note that many robots have grav propulsion. If gravitics
can run 24/7 in your TU you can get smaller robots out
of the way by having them float up by the ceiling. I would
not do it this way myself but the Imperium has had robots
and gravitics longer than we've had Iron so robots are
probably a mature technology.
>
> Just to throw out some numbers, what if the compact, high-
> performance systems in a robot become unreliable after 10
> years (this might lead to "good deals" on some twitchy old
> units, purchased from some small aliens that have glowing
> eyes and wear brown hooded robes :)). Perhaps the typical
> payment plan would last 5 years: with a 20% downpayment on
> MCr 1.2 (which amounts to more than 6.5 years of a steward's
> salary, IIRC), even without any interest it would require
> annual payments of Cr 192,000. Add to this the interest on
> the loan and maintainance costs, then spread the costs over
> the projected 10-year life of the robot (assuming it is not
> stolen or destroyed), and my WAG would be at least
> Cr 150,000 per year.
Canon indicates a much longer life than 10 years, at least
above TL 10.
"A standard [Tl 15] cargo robot costs Cr 75,000 and can
be financed over 40 years for 4,500 a year."
Fugate, J.D. and Brown, T. B. (1986). Book 8 Robots.
Bloomington, IL: Game Designer's Workshop. p. 4
"In the Imperium, servant robots are popular on very high
tech worlds. Naasirka retails a standard TL 15 servant robot
with an INT of 5 and an EDU of 1 for Cr77,500... such an
appliance has a useful life of _85_ years at TL 15. Purchasing
such a robot using a 40 year loan and paying for regular
maintenance works out to about Cr 10/day. Once the robot is
paid off, maintenance costs about Cr 1/day"
p. 10
Routine Maintenance
"All robots require routine annual maintenance equal to 1%
of their original costs. If this maintenance is not performed
roll 11+ [on 2d6] each month for a breakdown to occur.
p. 48
"Robot Economics [table]
TL Life in Years Max Bank Loan Term
10 10 5
11 25 12
12 40 20
13 55 27
14 70 35
15 85 40
16+ 100+ 40"
p. 30
So on a MCr 1.2 robot annual maintenance in Cr 12,000/year
or Cr 1,000 a month. Cr 1,000 is the minimum salary [in CT]
for ships crew (not on shares), so this robot is not
costing you any more than a crewsophont would.
Note also that MCr 1.2 is pretty expensive for a robot and
that the robot as designed was capable of filling
multiple roles well. If money is really an issue you can
design a perfectly adequate robot for a lot less just by
trimming the brain down. If you are willing to accept
INT 5, EDU 3, skill 4 in a living crewsophont you should
be willing to accept it in a robot.
If you take the robot Will designed & leave
the body as is & just redesign the brain you will get:
TL 13
20 linear CPU Cr 10,000 +1 INT
15 parallel CPU Cr 150,000 +3 INT
4 synaptic CPU Cr 200,000 +1 INT
30 standard storage Cr 7,500 +3 EDU
High Autonomous Logic Program Cr 10,000
Full Command Program Cr 5,000
Application Programs:
Pilot-4 Cr 2,000 [16 spaces]
Navigator-4 Cr 2,000 [16 spaces]
Steward-2 Cr 600 [4 spaces]
Emotion Simulation Cr 600 [2 spaces]
[All programs can run at the same time with none in storage
but only 1 space is left open for another program.
If you don't care if your robot can be a Pilot, an
Engineer, and a Steward at the same time I would buy
a Steward-4 program (+Cr 600, + 4 spaces) and have the robot
store Engineering or Pilot when it is being a Steward.]
Brain Cost Cr 387,500.
Since the rest of the robot cost about Cr 20,000 our
robot will cost about Cr 405,000. We will call it
Cr 405,000 for simplicity.
Its down payment is Cr 81,000.
Its monthly payment is Cr 2,000
(for 27 years of 12 months and assuming finance costs
on a 27 year robot loan are the same 100% of loan
amount as on a 40 year starship loan.
Cr 405,000 - Cr 81,000 down x 2 (finance costs) =
Cr 648,000 Cr 640,000 / 27 / 12 = Cr 2,000
Annual Maintenance is Cr 4,000 (Cr 333 month)
Total Cost of Ownership is less than Cr 2,400/month
In addition this Cr 2,400/year lets you _purcahse_
the robot. Crew salary is the rental of their services.
Buying people is slavery and that's a high justice crime
in the canonical Imperium. Therefore you have to remember
that one day you will own this robot free and clear.
Once it is paid off your total cost of ownership
is Cr 333 month (maintenance) + Cr 241 month
[what you will need to save up for the down payment on
the next identical robot when this one dies in another
28 years, (assuming you get no interest)] or
Cr 574/month. If you plan on being retired in 28 years
you can ignore this cost and let the ships next owner
worry about coming up with the down payment for the
next robot.
Of course if the robot gets blown up you are still on
the hook to the bank for the payments unless standard
financing in your TU includes loss insurance on the
item being financed. [It does in my TU.] Conversely if
a flesh & blood crewman gets blown up you don't have
to keep paying them (unless you made a _very_ poor choice
of home port to register under).
>
> Interestingly enough, your Cr 130,000 per year for the
> liberated stateroom plus the cash saved on steward's salary
> comes to a very similar figure. Obviously, this depends very
> much on the assumptions regarding robot durability, etc., but
> with the appropriate choice of limitations,
Unfortunately we _can't_ choose our limitations, they
are imposed by Book 8. At TL 13+ the robot crew being
is clearly superior. The canonical non robotically
crewed tramp freighter must (at TL 12+) be explained
by reasons other than economics. But since [IMNSHO] pretty
much all human behavior not explained by physics or
sociobiology is explainable be economics this is difficult.
[Note that claiming human behavior is explainable by economics
does _not_ mean that economics is the _only_ explanation
for human behavior . Nor does it require that people always
act rationally. Irrational human behavior can be evolutionarily
explained as a function of the fact that genetically coding
out the ability to make irrational decisions would require coding
out so much decision making capacity that the evolutionary
cost is not worth it. The resultant lack of flexibility
would make survival and wooing mates difficult.]
At TL 12 robot crew beings are less advisable because
the High Autonomous functioning program requires TL
13+. Of course may existing military units have living
crew who are incapable of functioning at the high
autonomous level, that's why they have Sgt.'s - to
command those Private's & 2nd Lt.'s who can't function
on their own. Therefore we know that ships can function
with (some) non command crew working at the "Low Autonomous"
level.
At low autonomous levels "The robot can take
independent action without direct commands and is able to
understand simple inferences. Commands no longer need to be
explicit and the robot may be able to "figure out what
you meant". It can analyze data and arrive at some very
simple obvious conclusions. However, robots with this
program are not truly creative they cannot originate
ideas on their own." - p. 35
[Actually I've know people who could not operate at
the "Low Autonomous" level so arguably we can have ships
crew who operate at the "High Data" level only but I don't
think _I_ want to be on that ship.]
[Don't try and tell me that the living crew can help you
fight off ethically challenged merchants while robot can
not. Even assuming you closely follow the Shudasham Concords
and don't arm your robot it is less likely to run up
gambling debts and sell you out than the living crewman.
Many business crimes are inside jobs & I don't see this
robot as being up for mutiny, piracy, & murder (until
Virus shows up but that's another matter), unlike living
crew.]
> human crews may continue to be economically feasable.
>
> Now, perhaps someone with more sense than I will correct all
> the errors that I have no doubt made :)
Thank you, thank you very much :)
An economic anaylsiss robots in non CT/MT rules
sets is left as an exercise for the reader.
P.S - The real problem with robots is that unless
they are so expensive as to be uncompetative with
living crewbeings [AB-101] they are appliances not
potential PC's. Therefore every robot on the
charecters ship is one less potential PC. In addition
while robots can serve as a plot complication they are,
unless very intelligent, inherantly less capable of
plot complications than living crew. Therefore they are
less desireable as NPC ships crew.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:17:31 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Artists
In a message dated 00-02-09 11:09:04 EST, you write:
<< Does anyone know what became of Jeff Dee and John Willingham? They were
some
of the best artists I had ever seen, for gaming products anyway. I've
always
liked their clear styles (like Danforth and Caswell).
>>
Spoke to Jeff not too long ago. He's still in the business, and like most of
the good artists from the old days, is priced out of Traveller's range...
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:15:48 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
From: Leonard Erickson
> > I won't disagree, but usually the decision is made in hindsight.
>
> True, but after we've been doing this for a thousand or two years, we
> ought to be a *lot* better at it. :-)
Are you implying that people learn from past mistakes? :)
> I'm thinking of it much like the way I used to learn songs for bardc
> circles. You need a lot of repetition to get the words of the song (or
> the details of the story) fixed in your mind. This is seperate from
> learning the nuances of performance.
>
> Once you've got most of the words/details learned, or at least a few
> verses worth, *then* getting together with a storyteller (or an
> audience of friends) is much more satisfactory for all concerned.
Okay, gotcha. In my not fully awake state yesterday morning I wasn't
thinking of storytelling with a heavy mechanical/formal bent.
> Yeah, I know.I was trying to inject a note of reality, just in case
> anyone thought it was *really* that way. :-)
Don't make me throw a 90 pound brass pair of dice at you, Leonard! :)
> I just have a feeling (ok, a "pious hope") that in the long run
> *non*-disruptive introduction of tech, and tech uplift are going to
> proove more profitable. After all one *common* thread in every
> culture that we've trashed here on earth is that at some point that
> natives (quite correctly) get pissed at us because they realize that
> it's *our* fault their society fell apart. This frequently leads to wars,
> rebellions or at least to attacks in dark alleys.
Well, I do *think*, at least optimistically, that it's certainly possible,
but problematic. Relatively minor changes may, and usually do, have major
and sweeping effects which are tough (I would say, for the most part
impossible, but we're being optimistic here after all :) ) to see before
they happen. Even once changes start happening, it's difficult to understand
them.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:28:03 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jason Kemp"
Subject: Charismatic Oligarchy...
Greetings, All,
My mind just went blank, and I'm trying to think of good examples of
a Charismatic Oligarchy government type. Does anyone have any
suggestions or real-world comparisons that could help me get a better
grasp on this government type? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Regards,
Jason
=============================
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV
(512)458-7111 ext. 1+3375
Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes. For more info, check out:
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm
==============================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:24:37 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Ranks
From:
> It is rumored that the reason the US Army's 5-star rank is not called
> "Marshal" is that the first one to receive it (and the one who had to
> approve it) would have been George Marshall). "I'll be d*mned if
> anyone's going to all me 'Marshal Marshall'!"
>
> Dunno if it's true, but it is a good story.
Hey, I know I can never join the Navy. I'd be Seaman Seamans. :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:20:23 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: robot economics
Peter Newman wrote:
>[Don't try and tell me that the living crew can help you
>fight off ethically challenged merchants while robot can
>not. Even assuming you closely follow the Shudasham Concords
>and don't arm your robot it is less likely to run up
>gambling debts and sell you out than the living crewman.
>Many business crimes are inside jobs & I don't see this
>robot as being up for mutiny, piracy, & murder (until
>Virus shows up but that's another matter), unlike living
>crew.]
The robot doesn't need gambling debts to betray you. One of
your passengers, just needs Robotics skill and more experience
than you have with anti-tampering devices on robots.
Your Steward robot serves dinner to a passenger, then puts
drain cleaner in the crew's soup. While the crew dies
nastily, the reprogrammed Steward robot happily lets the
hijacking passengers onto the bridge.
Pilot, Navigator and Engineer robots might never meet
the passengers, but once a year they will meet a robotics
maintenance tech...perhaps *he* could be gotten to.
Robots can't be blackmailed, but they also have no loyalty.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1893
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Traveller-digest Thursday, February 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1894
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: robot economics
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Guys with Bad Names
Re: Re Robots
Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
re: Social Impact Statements
Jupiter's Massive Storms
Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
101 Robots DGP
Re: Robot economics
re: robot economics
Re: JTAS Online
Re: long-term media
Re: robot economics
Re: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
Re: Guys with Bad Names
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
Re: Robot economics
Re: Guys with Bad Names
Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:31:27 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: robot economics
William F. Hostman writes:
>By Bk 8, you can finance robots over fairly long times. From Bk 8, P.30
>TL 10 11 12 13 14 15 16+
>Life 10 25 40 55 70 85 100+
>Max Loan Term 5 12 20 27 35 40 40
>in years
>with the typical traveller financing methods.
I can see why the useful lifespan should increase with TL,
but then shouldn't it for starships as well? My take is that
"cutting edge" robots at any TL are pushing the limits for
that TL, and thus have about the same projected lifespan.
For simplicity, I will ignore the effects of building a
"TL 12" robot at TL 15.
>For space requirements, I assume they require a half-bunk (or
>equivalent). (1/2 Td.) I got this from the Dragon Magazine article
>on "Robots in Traveller". In MT, you can simply figure their
>chassis size, and figure about double that if installed, or a half
>bunk or full bunk as appropriate based upon shape and size.
These work for me, but would 0.5 ton cargo space do in a
pinch? Perhaps some sort of inexpensive module could be
carried in the cargo bay.
>Maintenance is 1% of purchase cost each year for the overhaul.
That's what I was figuring. Presumably that covers everything
other than recharging the batteries from time to time.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:40:47 -0600
From: Black ICE
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/9/00 4:46:34 AM !!!First Boot!!!, eris@pcola.gulf.net
> writes:
>
> << God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
> >so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
> >>
>
> I never joined the service, because I refused to be called Captain
> Kimmel....:-)
Could be worse. If you commissioned in the Navy, you'd postpone that
rank until you made O-6. Unfortunately, if you then made O-7, you'd
have the bad karma of being Admiral Kimmel (see Pearl Harbor attack).
- --
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:32:36 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Guys with Bad Names
>> >>God as my witness, I served under a Major Minor. You never met an officer
>> >>so eager to make Lt. Colonel.
>
>There's a doctor here in Calgary whose last name is Doctor. Doctor Joel
>Doctor. He's an allergy specialist.
Reminds me of a podiatrist back in Peterborough, Ontario, by the name
of Dr. Foote. I am not making this up.
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:39:50 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Re Robots
William F. Hostman wrote:
>By Bk 8, you can finance robots over fairly long times. From Bk 8, P.30
>TL 10 11 12 13 14 15 16+
>Life 10 25 40 55 70 85 100+
>Max Loan Term 5 12 20 27 35 40 40
>in years
>with the typical traveller financing methods.
>
>For space requirements, I assume they require a half-bunk (or equivalent).
>(1/2 Td.) I got this from the Dragon Magazine article on "Robots in
>Traveller". In MT, you can simply figure their chassis size, and figure
>about double that if installed, or a half bunk or full bunk as appropriate
>based upon shape and size.
If all we want is to "bolt-on" a robot brain to the starship computer
to provide pilot-4 and nav-4, presumably the pilot's chair on the
bridge will provide sufficient space.
Note that this will only operate as pilot-3/nav-3 due to work overload
unless you provide two brains. (Spotted that in book 2 last night.)
>>Maintenance is 1% of purchase cost each year for the overhaul.
For a 1.25MCr "brain"
12.5kCr/year, 1kCr/month
mortgage (over 40 years)
1.25MCr/240 = 5.2kCr/month
Now a Pilot-1 is 6kCr/month plus the Navigator-1 at 5kCr/month
means you already profit by almost 5kCr/month.
But the life support would cost 2kCr/month (IIRC) and you have
two extra staterooms to sell (that's either 20kCr/month or 40,
depending on your crew accomodations.) Plus the baggage space
(perhaps 2dT = 4kCr/month)
So the robot brain is cheaper than a human pilots and navigators
by up to 50kCr/month plus better skilled and a better certified
skill.
Even if the things cost 10MCr, you'd probably have Imperial laws
*requiring* them (because of the certified skill levels).
You'd need the robot brains to be over 20MCr to be a cost problem
(and then not significant on large ships)
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:43:29 -0700
From: Glenn St-Germain
Subject: Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
>Greetings, All,
>
>My mind just went blank, and I'm trying to think of good examples of
>a Charismatic Oligarchy government type. Does anyone have any
>suggestions or real-world comparisons that could help me get a better
>grasp on this government type? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
The Government of Canada comes to mind. True, elections are held every
so often, but they're always rigged to put the same idiots back into
power. They enjoy the confidence of the populace (they score high in
popularity polls), and do pretty much whatever they want...
:)
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:49:43 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Social Impact Statements
Chris Seamans wrote:
>Even once changes start happening, it's difficult to understand them.
The above is the heart of my suspicion about the "Evil Dutch Matches
Destroyed Our Village's Morality" story. A significant, generalized change
in behaviour was hung on one thing - that people could now get matches.
Was the relationship really that clear-cut?
Like no one would notice that Shionta keeps putting out her fire
in the middle of the day. :-)
This kind of thinking - distilling complex situations into One Cause - is
just as dangerous a "western way" as the individualism you seem to
think is a western monopoly.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:09:27 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)"
Subject: Jupiter's Massive Storms
ScienceDaily has posted an interesting story on the
scope of Jupiter's storms, based on data from the
Galileo probe. If you're a GM and have players who
often skim gas giants for fuel (like Mr. Eaglestone's
crew), you may want to check it out.
Peter J. Gierasch, Cornell professor of astronomy
and a lead author on a letter to Nature detailing
the research team's findings, is quoted as saying
with lightning strikes much larger than those found
on Earth, "I wouldn't want to fly through that storm."
Of course, your players will *hate* you for it but,
as GM, it's your _obligation_ to make their adventures
...adventurous.
Ah, it's good to be a GM. (I'm really looking forward
to next week, Rob.)
;-)
The story is at:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/02/000209215812.htm
David
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:09:37 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
Glenn St-Germain wrote:
>
> >Greetings, All,
> >
> >My mind just went blank, and I'm trying to think of good examples of
> >a Charismatic Oligarchy government type. Does anyone have any
> >suggestions or real-world comparisons that could help me get a better
> >grasp on this government type? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
>
> The Government of Canada comes to mind. True, elections are held every
> so often, but they're always rigged to put the same idiots back into
> power. They enjoy the confidence of the populace (they score high in
> popularity polls), and do pretty much whatever they want...
As a Canadian (and an Albertan), I agree with your sentiments. However,
my understanding is that an oligarchy occurs when a single family
manages to maintain power. Think of a medieval king, who passes on the
throne to his sons or daughters.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:17:31 -0700
From: "Eric T. Holmes"
Subject: 101 Robots DGP
Fellow Travellers:
I went rooting around in my Traveller boxes this evening and found
I had either mislaid or allowed to be borrowed, my copy of DGP
101 Robots. Is there anyone willing to photo copy the whole
shebang. I'll trade photo copy for photo copy.
Things I have:
All GDW LBB Supplements, Adventures, Double Adventures and
Special Supplements, The Traveller Adventure, Atlas of the Imperium,
Tarsus, Beltstrike
Judges Guild 50 Starports, Crucis Margin, Glimmerdrift Reaches,
Ley Sector, Traveller Spacecraft and Starships (?)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:18:28 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: Robot economics
Peter Newman writes:
>I would leave the robot at it's duty station 24/7 if no other
>crew member needs to use that work station.
>The way I would do it personally is to use the vehicle
>storage rules.
This is where I was headed, generally. I just need some
sort of limitation on how many can be carried on a ship.
>Lets say our robot is about human sized or 100 liters.
>Therefore it needs 400 liters of space assuming you want to be
>able to maintain it easily or 200 liters of space if you don't
>care about that. One Dt is 13,500 liters so 400 liters is 0.03
>ton. 0.03 ton is such a small space that it can be ignored for
>all practical purposes on all but the most crowded ships.
For simplicity, I treat the capacity of a ship as mass or
volume, so a ship with an 80-ton cargo hold cannot carry
more than 80,000 kg, nor can it carry more than 1,080,000
litres. This, I figure 0.1 tons for each 100-kg robot.
But then, I'm an old CT fart.
>Note that many robots have grav propulsion. If gravitics
>can run 24/7 in your TU you can get smaller robots out
>of the way by having them float up by the ceiling. I would
>not do it this way myself but the Imperium has had robots
>and gravitics longer than we've had Iron so robots are
>probably a mature technology.
The ceilings in my ships are not high enough to make this
practical. Gravbots also tend to be more expensive.
>"In the Imperium, servant robots are popular on very high
>tech worlds. Naasirka retails a standard TL 15 servant robot
>with an INT of 5 and an EDU of 1 for Cr77,500... such an
>appliance has a useful life of _85_ years at TL 15. Purchasing
>such a robot using a 40 year loan and paying for regular
>maintenance works out to about Cr 10/day. Once the robot is
>paid off, maintenance costs about Cr 1/day"
I can see why people think that human crews would be
superceded by robots under such rules. I like having
human crews, so I am forced to ignore these rules :)
Also, isn't a robot with an Int of 5 an example of AI?
Isn't AI a TL 17 tech? Or is this some sort of special
"robot Int?"
>"All robots require routine annual maintenance equal to 1%
>of their original costs. If this maintenance is not performed
>roll 11+ [on 2d6] each month for a breakdown to occur.
I can work with this.
>"Robot Economics [table]
>TL Life in Years Max Bank Loan Term
>10 10 5
>11 25 12
>12 40 20
>13 55 27
>14 70 35
>15 85 40
>16+ 100+ 40"
My feeling is that a "cutting edge" robot at TL 15 might
just last no longer than a "cutting edge" robot at TL 10.
That's what seems to happen with starships, but YMMV.
>Once it is paid off your total cost of ownership
>is Cr 333 month (maintenance) + Cr 241 month
With these figures, one would be mad to hire PCs for regular
crew possisions.
>Of course if the robot gets blown up you are still on
>the hook to the bank for the payments unless standard
>financing in your TU includes loss insurance on the
>item being financed. [It does in my TU.] Conversely if
>a flesh & blood crewman gets blown up you don't have
>to keep paying them (unless you made a _very_ poor choice
>of home port to register under).
This is a potential problem with any equipment, of course.
Somebody posted some figures here a while ago that suggested
that insuring a starship could be prohibitively expensive
(IIRC). Even without some of the ship payments going to
insurance, the financial institution is only making something
like 5.7% per year on a standard starship mortgage. The
realized return for the financial institution is going to be
lower than this on average as some loanees will skip or
otherwise default.
>Unfortunately we _can't_ choose our limitations, they
>are imposed by Book 8.
Speak for yourself, I'm a heretic ;)
>At TL 13+ the robot crew being is clearly superior. The
>canonical non robotically crewed tramp freighter must (at TL
>12+) be explained by reasons other than economics. But since
>[IMNSHO] pretty much all human behavior not explained by
>physics or sociobiology is explainable be economics this is
>difficult.
That may be debatable, but I agree that it would be
difficult.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:24:22 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: robot economics
>From: Walter Smith
>Subject: re: robot economics
...
>>c. In the 3I, the robot's owner is directly responsible (liable) for
>>_everything_ that the robot does.
>>
>>The last point, above, may be at least _one_ reason that people steer
>>clear of robotic pilots.
>
>With regard to Pilots - isn't the ship owner, who presumably owns the
>built-in robot pilot, already directly responsible for damage caused by
>his ship?
The question becomes "is that personal responsibility of the supervisor
for all actions/omissions" or the usual where you sanitize ownership
through a limited liability structure and no one is responsible for much
of anything, beyond the companies exposure to fiscal penalties?
The head purser may not be keen on doing time for assault if a servo-bot
spills boiling tea on a passenger...
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:32:46 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
What must I do to protect my data on my CD-R's? I have 20 CD-R's packed
with important data that cannot be replaced. I've put a substantial amount
of money into this technology thinking it was safe.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jens Rydholm"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
> Chauncey Smith wrote:
> > To address this problem I suggest that you burn a CD-R of the data
> > and keep that.
> > since it can be used on a standard CD-ROM drive and CD-ROMS show no
> > sign of going out of style.
> > I say it's the way to go. also unlike digital media in the past it
> > will still work 10 years from now.
>
> That really depends. CD-Rs "go bad" after a while. I have had one CD-R
> (made two years ago) that now refuses to let me access the files, and a
> few others have problems with some of the files on them.
>
> The difference between CD-Rs and other CDs is that a CD-R is not coated
> with a protective surface (like the others). Therefore, it has
> *significantly* less endurance.
>
> /Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:37:09 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: long-term media
Hell, I'll still prolly have even my old 286 in running condition 20 years
from now, so a CD-Rom drive isn't that much of a leap.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Ferguson"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:08 AM
Subject: RE: long-term media
>
> Not that long ago, 5 1/4 inch disks showed no sign of going
> out of style. Granted, the CD-ROM will last much longer,
> but how hard will it be to find a machine that will read it
> in 20 years?
>
> Peez
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:41:08 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: robot economics
So you are saying there is no way possible to safe guard robots against
'hacking'? They don't come with auto-running diagnostics that detect
changes in parameters and wipe the changed net and upload from rom?
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Smith"
To: "'TML'"
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:20 AM
Subject: re: robot economics
>
> The robot doesn't need gambling debts to betray you. One of
> your passengers, just needs Robotics skill and more experience
> than you have with anti-tampering devices on robots.
>
> Your Steward robot serves dinner to a passenger, then puts
> drain cleaner in the crew's soup. While the crew dies
> nastily, the reprogrammed Steward robot happily lets the
> hijacking passengers onto the bridge.
>
> Pilot, Navigator and Engineer robots might never meet
> the passengers, but once a year they will meet a robotics
> maintenance tech...perhaps *he* could be gotten to.
>
> Robots can't be blackmailed, but they also have no loyalty.
>
> Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:26:12
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
At 02:46 PM 2/9/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Hey Mr. D. Berry I was in the Army from 1984-1992 - A grunt too... 11BC2
Dragon-dude!
>I am the Infantry, Queen of Battle! For two centuries I have kept our
>Nation safe by Purchasing freedom with my blood. To tyrants I'am the day of
>reckoning, and to the oppressed I'm their hope. Where the fighting is thick
>est, there am I! I am the Infantry! FOLLOW ME!
Heh. FOLLOW ME is the motto of the Infantry, and there is a statue called
Iron Mike in front of Building 4 at Ft. Benning.
This statue shows an infantry leader lunging forward, waving his troops to
follow him, with a M-1 in his other hand. (He also has his helmet straps
undone.. grumblegrumbleJohnWayneBSgrumble) Good picture at:
http://www.BENNING.ARMY.MIL/
The joke among the enlisted was that "Follow Me" was the motto the
*commissioned* infantry. There were several variants of the enlisted motto,
based on Iron Mike.
"You have got to be kidding."
"Right after you, Sir!"
"I've got a profile." (medical excuse from duty)
"So, what d'ya think the new LT will be like?"
"Anybody want to tell him he's running the wrong way?"
"Short!" (short is a term for troops close to discharge or transfer.
Getting them to do anything is nearly impossible.)
"Isn't that our minefield he's running into?"
"After him! He has all the cigarettes!"
"Supporting fire! He still owes me money!"
"Let him go about 50 meters, we'll see what happens."
"SIR!! We just called in artillery, oh never mind.."
and my favorite:
"Sir, I just spent eight hours digging this fighting position in
100-degree, 90% humidity. It has grenade sumps, overhead cover, zone and
FPF markers, claymores covering the approaches, is camouflaged, and I
turned my range plan over to the First Sergeant. I. Ain't. .
Going. Nowhere"
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
"In the long run luck is given only to the efficient."
-Helmuth von Moltke, Imperial German Army
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:29:43
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Guys with Bad Names
At 04:58 AM 2/10/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>I don't know if you could call them bad names, but in my city we have
>doctors with the following names: Dr. Payne: Family Practice, Dr. Peter
>Blood: Hematologist, Dr. Bonebreak: Orthopedics, Dr. Mangler, and Dr.
>Beavers: Ob/Gyn.
One of the hematologists at Stanford is Dr. Blood. Never met him.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:32:37
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
At 09:00 PM 2/9/2000 EST, you wrote:
>When my father was at Fort Dix, in 1962, he had KP duty and saw a site that
>chilled him to the day he died...He saw them back a truck into the loading
>bay, and unload LOTS of grade A premium Sirloin and other assorted cuts. He
>later saw the same meat thrown into pots and BOILED to make into SOS!!! (s**
>t on a shingle, or creamed chipped beef on toast to the uninitiated). He
>always lamented about the BBQ and grilling party that wasn't....:-(. I never
>understood why you would boil a perfectly good steak....
Assume that steak would have fed 100 troops as nice broiled tips. Make it
SOS and it feeds a thousand.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:42:15 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Robot economics
>From: Peter Newman
>Subject: Re: Robot economics
...
>Note that many robots have grav propulsion. If gravitics
>can run 24/7 in your TU you can get smaller robots out
>of the way by having them float up by the ceiling. I would
>not do it this way myself but the Imperium has had robots
>and gravitics longer than we've had Iron so robots are
>probably a mature technology.
Give them flat round LCD-type displays on their tops so you can use them
as chess-boards with built-in drink holders.
Or flower vases...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:44:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: Guys with Bad Names
On Thu, 10 Feb 2000, Michael Maley wrote:
> I don't know if you could call them bad names, but in my city we have
> doctors with the following names: Dr. Payne: Family Practice, Dr. Peter
> Blood: Hematologist, Dr. Bonebreak: Orthopedics, Dr. Mangler, and Dr.
> Beavers: Ob/Gyn.
>
At least Dr. Peter wasn't a urologist... =)
Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:02:54 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
In a message dated 2/10/00 8:29:59 AM Central Standard Time,
Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us writes:
<< My mind just went blank, and I'm trying to think of good examples of
a Charismatic Oligarchy government type. Does anyone have any
suggestions or real-world comparisons that could help me get a better
grasp on this government type? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
>>
Oligarchy: 2 : a government in which a small group exercises control esp. for
corrupt and selfish purposes; also : a group exercising such control
The Chicago Machine.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:27:25
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
At 01:02 PM 2/10/2000 EST, you wrote:
>Oligarchy: 2 : a government in which a small group exercises control esp.
for
>corrupt and selfish purposes; also : a group exercising such control
>
>The Chicago Machine.
The National Football League Owners.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1894
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Traveller-digest Thursday, February 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1895
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
re: robot economics
Re: Ranks
re: robot economics
Re: Robot economics
Re: JTAS Online
RE: robot economics
re: robot economics
Re: Ranks
Re: Robot economics
Another 15 minutes of fame!!!
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
Re: Robot economics
Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
Re: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
JTAS copyright question
RE: Terraforming
Re: Another 15 minutes of fame!!!
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:20:52 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: robot economics
Jory Earl wrote:
>So you are saying there is no way possible to safe guard robots against
>'hacking'? They don't come with auto-running diagnostics that detect
>changes in parameters and wipe the changed net and upload from rom?
In response to my:
"The robot doesn't need gambling debts to betray you. One of
your passengers, just needs Robotics skill and more experience
than you have with anti-tampering devices on robots."
Now that I think of it, the "you" the last sentence might better be
read as "the company or person that built/programmed/maintains your
robot".
Certainly, one can have safeguards - and for every safeguard, there
can be a countermeasure. For every auto-running diagnostics program,
there can be a "diagnostics update patch" to make the program ignore
the last set of changes. For every automatic shutdown and load from
ROM procedure, there can be a flashrom update or ROM replacement
chip. No security system is perfect, whether we're talking background
checks on human crews or anti-tampering equipment on robotic crew.
My point was that having a robotic crewman didn't necessarily keep
said crewman from doing you in. Now that I think of it, perhaps it's
been found to be easier (in the TU) to assure the loyalty of humans
than it's been to secure the programming of robots, and that's one of
the reasons shipmasters prefer living beings on their crew rosters.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:45:48 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: Ranks
Chris Seamans wrote:
> From:
>
> > It is rumored that the reason the US Army's 5-star rank is not called
> > "Marshal" is that the first one to receive it (and the one who had to
> > approve it) would have been George Marshall). "I'll be d*mned if
> > anyone's going to all me 'Marshal Marshall'!"
> >
> > Dunno if it's true, but it is a good story.
>
> Hey, I know I can never join the Navy. I'd be Seaman Seamans. :)
Or Fireman Seamans
Or Airman Seamans
Or Construtionman Seamans
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:33:02 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: robot economics
Steve Hudson wrote:
> The question becomes "is that personal responsibility of the supervisor
>for all actions/omissions" or the usual where you sanitize ownership
>through a limited liability structure and no one is responsible for much
>of anything, beyond the companies exposure to fiscal penalties?
>
> The head purser may not be keen on doing time for assault if a servo-bot
>spills boiling tea on a passenger...
Is the supervisor of the robot responsible, or the owner?
The Head Steward tells the robot to serve tea, it obeys following the
Steward-2 program loaded onto it by ServaSystems Inc, using
hardware designed by Naasirka and built by SRC Service Robotics,
the whole package purchased by Oberlindes Lines and leased to
the Aramis Ventures shipping line.
Any one of these entities could be at fault for the spilled tea, but I could
see how making the supervisor directly responsible would chill the Head
Steward's willingness to be giving orders to a robot...he'd be on the
sharp end for the possible errors of what could be a very, very long
chain of people.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:53:53 -0500
From: Mark Urbin
Subject: Re: Robot economics
I always like how H. Beam Piper had 'em doing something useful...
handing out drinks and cigarettes to the people flying the ships and doing
the fighting.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:00:39 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
Jory Earl wrote:
>
> What must I do to protect my data on my CD-R's? I have 20 CD-R's packed
> with important data that cannot be replaced. I've put a substantial amount
> of money into this technology thinking it was safe.
The jury is still out on this technology for really _long_ term storage,
mostly because they haven't been around all that long, and the
technology has improved a couple of times since their introduction. We
simply don't really know yet. Ask us in twenty years ;-)
There is a growing body of sheer anectdotal evidence that points in just
about every direction :-/
Store them, (as with everything) in a cool dry place, out of direct
sunlight.
Handle them a little as necessary.
Some people swear that sharpie (alcohol-based) markers eat through the
disks' coating ruining them, others swear that's bs.
Some people swear that the glue on labels eats through the disks'
coating ruining them, others swear that's bs.
The safest course, of course, is to not label the disk at all, just
label the jewel box.
The part you write on is the back of the part that is recorded, so avoid
getting fingerprints on that. Fingerprint oils _are_ corrosive, some
people's more than others, and while the back coating is relatively
impervious, I wouldn't really want to push it.
There are copmanies that make cd 'cases' that you put the cd into and
play as a unit, protecting the disk surface...I've not seen or tried
these, so I don't know.
Make duplicate copies...if your data is truly irreplaceable, it's worth
another coupla bucks on burning another disk. Make two, no, make three
and store one off-site (it really sucks to have carefully backed up all
your data, and then pick up the melted disks from the rubble of a
fire:-(
Some people say the dye coating is an indicator of quality, that the
gold ones are the best.
While it appears that some readers have problems with the different
dyes, it's unclear at this moment whether the various dyes themselves
have instability problems.
Truly _long_ term storage would involve some means of testing the
medium, and copying the data to new disks as needed, _before_ data
corruption occurs.
- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:12:54 -0800
From: "Thing"
Subject: RE: robot economics
On Thursday, February 10, 2000 10:33 AM
Walter Smith said,
> Any one of these entities could be at fault for the spilled tea, but I
could
> see how making the supervisor directly responsible would chill the
Head
> Steward's willingness to be giving orders to a robot...he'd be on the
> sharp end for the possible errors of what could be a very, very long
> chain of people.
Ultimately I would view the captain of the ship as responsible for the
well being of the passengers, the performance/actions of the crew, and
the state and safety of equipment including robots.
I could also see, from gaps in programming, a TL12 Galley/ChefBot having
a lot of trouble with non-human passengers. The programming on the
chefbot doesn't recognize the dietary restrictions of non-human
passengers and serves food with ingredients poisonous to those
passengers, or a steward that doesn't recognize a Vargr as a valid
passenger/crew and refuses to dispense food or tries to
quarantine/kennel the escaped pet in a cabin.
G.D.D.
Thing under the stairs,
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.
==================================
"Mocking is simply the honking of the horns of the fleet of clue busses
bearing down upon the hapless victim..." -Joy Ralph
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:12:30 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: robot economics
Thing wrote:
>Ultimately I would view the captain of the ship as responsible for the
>well being of the passengers, the performance/actions of the crew, and
>the state and safety of equipment including robots.
Responsible, yes...but if I'm Captain, and my Steward assaults a
passenger, do I go to jail? Steve's read of robot regs seems to make
a robot a direct extension of the owner (supervisor), with each act
legally treated as if the owner had done it themselves. Thus a
malfunctioning robot that harmed someone wouldn't be a civil liability
matter, like someone scalded by a malfunctioning shower - it would
be a criminal matter, as if I had thrown boiling water on you.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:26:30 CST6CDT
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: Re: Ranks
In my unit, who had a Major who was not well liked, named Richard. Behind his
back, he was always Major D**k...
Andy Akins
________________________________________________________
True Communications Corporation Your Premier ISP.
"Hometown Service with Worldwide Connectivity"
http://www.truserve.com info@truserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:33:39 -0800
From: Evyn MacDude
Subject: Re: Robot economics
Mark Urbin wrote:
> I always like how H. Beam Piper had 'em doing something useful...
>
> handing out drinks and cigarettes to the people flying the ships and doing
> the fighting.
Don't forget doing the dishs...
- --
Evyn...
TMLUPP:5C7A78
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/
Wish I was a better person... with more control...
Turn the other cheek... and when the punch comes, roll...
Wish I was a kinder person... could see the others pain...
Not over react, not judge... and shrug off the spreadin' stain.
Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:35:14 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Another 15 minutes of fame!!!
Hey, guess who's picture is on the front page of the San Jose Mercury News.
It's for the headline story about the recent wave of Internet hacks. My wife
is already buying extra copies for relatives.
What's the relevance to Traveller? Another reminder that a suitable
application of cryptography will solve all of your problems. Well, not all
of your problems, but the ones related to network and computer security. Not
just today, but in the Traveller universe also. The ultimate handwave.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:59:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
>From: Black ICE
>Of _course_! Everyone _knows_ that Solomani women are the most
>attractive, desirable females in the galaxy! (At least the
>ones _I_ know are. Then again, I live in Louisiana now. Your
>home state's standards may vary.) Think about it. When Mars
>needed women, did they rush off to Vilani space? NO! Did the
>Bug-Eyed Monsters invade Sylea in search of babes? NO!!
>Besides, would Julie Brown and Geena Davis appeared in a movie
>entitled "Zhodani Girls Are Easy"? ;-)
Pulp magazine cover after pulp magazine cover confirms the truth
of this position.
How about a new set of Imperial calendars to put in the mech
elec robotics grav shop, instead of the usual plain-text version
that's published in official materials:
Girls of the Solomani Rim
Belter Women Out of Their Vacc Suits!
Exotic Ladies of Terra
The Terran Swimsuit Calendar
The Ling Standard Products Hostile Environment Calendar
The Imperial Birthday Suit Calendar
Noble Women of Dingir Sector
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:06:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
>Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
>I live in one of the few places where westerners pulled off a
>successful genocide, in Tasmania.
The Spanish accomplished it in Argentina, too.
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:24:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Goffin
Subject: re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
>From: "Jason Kemp"
>My mind just went blank, and I'm trying to think of good
>examples of a Charismatic Oligarchy government type. Does
>anyone have any suggestions or real-world comparisons that
>could help me get a better grasp on this government type?
Consider the Suharto oligarchy of Indonesia, the Marcos
oligarchy of the Philippines, or, to some extent, the Peron
oligarchy of Argentina. Families were at the heart of each of
these oligarchies, but not every member of the oligarchy was
related by blood or marriage. Each of these oligarchies had one
chief, but much decision-making was done by the group.
Each of these governments was charismatic because the leadership
was able to obtain and maintain widespread popular support
despite fairly obvious injustice and corruption. Things had to
deteriorate to an extreme degree before they gave up any power.
The Peron group was smaller than Suharto or Marcos.
Pinochet of Chile is another good example. He really ran the
country though an oligarchy of military personnel.
One can argue that the Nazis and were charismatic oligarchs.
Although Hitler was the undisputed leader, Goebbels had an
incredible speaking presence as well, and some of the other top
political leaders had a lot of personal political clout (Ley,
the Labor Minister, comes immediately to mind).
- --Glenn
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:11:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville
Subject: Re: Robot economics
Ian Ferguson wrote:
> Also, isn't a robot with an Int of 5 an example of AI?
> Isn't AI a TL 17 tech? Or is this some sort of special
> "robot Int?"
The way Book 8 works, sort of. Robots have apparent Int and Edu scores,
but they also have a fundamental command set and a second program that
determines how well they handle incoming data (which affect those scores).
It's possible to have a moderate Int 'bot which has no learning capacity
and which requires simple commands. I read robot Int as, among other
things, how well and rapidly a robot executes arbitrary commands.
Under the rules, an Int-0 robot is possible, and must be given commands
by someone with Robot Ops skill to function. Robots also are given a
special reaction table which is affected by Int; low Int robots often
don't react to abnormal situations around them, and they have a lot of
trouble trying to execute commands which are outside their skill sets.
-- Steve Bonneville
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:12:19 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
On 10 Feb 00, at 8:28, Jason Kemp wrote:
> Greetings, All,
>
> My mind just went blank, and I'm trying to think of good examples of a
> Charismatic Oligarchy government type. Does anyone have any suggestions or
> real-world comparisons that could help me get a better grasp on this
> government type? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Most ancient greek cities had Charismatic Oligarchies for governments.
Both Athens and Sparta (in the Classical period) had democracies
(though Sparta's was more of a gerentocracy). However by modern
standards even Athen's government was merely by a large (and erratic)
oligarchy. During the Republic Rome was also an Oligarchy, usually
charismatic.
You could make a case for feudal europe being oligarchical in
government, too. Whether it was charismatic or not would depend on when
and where.
Just about any government by more than one person can be called an
oligarchy (unless _everyone_ is in the government - a democracy is
effectively just a very wide oligrachy), and if it is popular, then
it's a charismatic one. The early French revolutionary government would
count. So would the American revolutionary government (I don't recall
that it was elected at that point).
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:12:19 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
On 10 Feb 00, at 8:09, Erwin Fritz wrote:
> Glenn St-Germain wrote:
> >
> > >Greetings, All,
> > >
> > >My mind just went blank, and I'm trying to think of good examples of a
> > >Charismatic Oligarchy government type. Does anyone have any suggestions
> > >or real-world comparisons that could help me get a better grasp on this
> > >government type? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
> >
> > The Government of Canada comes to mind. True, elections are held every
> > so often, but they're always rigged to put the same idiots back into
> > power. They enjoy the confidence of the populace (they score high in
> > popularity polls), and do pretty much whatever they want...
>
> As a Canadian (and an Albertan), I agree with your sentiments. However, my
> understanding is that an oligarchy occurs when a single family manages to
> maintain power. Think of a medieval king, who passes on the throne to his
> sons or daughters.
Nope - he'd be a dictator, possibly charismatic. His decendants would
be non-charismatic dictators. An oligarchy is government by a "small"
group, often of a few noble families.
BTW medieval kings seldom had enough power to really be dictators -
that came later, in the renaissance and "age of reason". A medieval
king was more like "chairman of the board" of nobles - "chief oligarch"
if you like.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:12:19 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
On 10 Feb 00, at 9:26, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 02:46 PM 2/9/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> >Hey Mr. D. Berry I was in the Army from 1984-1992 - A grunt too... 11BC2
>
> Dragon-dude!
>
> >I am the Infantry, Queen of Battle! For two centuries I have kept our
> >Nation safe by Purchasing freedom with my blood. To tyrants I'am the day
> >of reckoning, and to the oppressed I'm their hope. Where the fighting is
> >thick est, there am I! I am the Infantry! FOLLOW ME!
>
> Heh. FOLLOW ME is the motto of the Infantry, and there is a statue called
> Iron Mike in front of Building 4 at Ft. Benning.
The New Zealand Infantry's motto is simply "Onward". We never had many
jokes about it, and offiver was dumb enough to use it as an order.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:12:19 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
Subject: Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
On 10 Feb 00, at 7:43, Glenn St-Germain wrote:
> >Greetings, All,
> >
> >My mind just went blank, and I'm trying to think of good examples of a
> >Charismatic Oligarchy government type. Does anyone have any suggestions
> >or real-world comparisons that could help me get a better grasp on this
> >government type? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
>
> The Government of Canada comes to mind. True, elections are held every so
> often, but they're always rigged to put the same idiots back into power.
> They enjoy the confidence of the populace (they score high in popularity
> polls), and do pretty much whatever they want...
I resisted the temptation to say this in my other post, but most
western democracies can be considered to be some sort of oligarchy
because of this effect. it's taken 9 years for the idiots here to
remove the last lot, and it's about 15 since we had any _effective_
change in government policy.
- --
"Rupert Boleyn"
An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:22:46 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman
Subject: JTAS copyright question
Gentles,
Could someone do me the favor of preparing a short summary of the concerns
over the JTAS subscriber agreement and copyrights to messages on the
discussion boards? I am preparing a FAQ, and I will submit this question to
Steve for his personal reply.
Loren Wiseman
Traveller Line Manager
Traveller Guru-in-Residence
Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
SJ Games
LKW@IO.COM
(512) 447-7866 VOX
(512) 447-1144 FAX
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:44:20 -0000
From: "Mark Preston"
Subject: RE: Terraforming
Being honest, I looked most of the details up - I'm a computer bod
with a fair experience in ecology / biology, but by no means a
terraforming expert. I've answered the points you raised and given my
references so you can follow them up if you want - you might well find
things I've missed or misunderstood.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> Ian Ferguson
> Sent: 08 February 2000 21:07
> To: traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject: RE: Terraforming
>
>
> Mark Preston writes:
>
> >You must also ensure that the upper levels of atmosphere are
> >significantly hotter and thus less dense that the lower levels
> >to build a suitable density gradient.
>
> Pardon my ignorance, but why is it necessary to have the
> upper levels of the atmosphere hotter than the lower
> levels?
>
I don't actually know - I swiped this from 'Blue Mars'. Personally, I
found it confusing since if you heat up the atmosphere surely it gets
hotter lower down, but apparently not. Also, I thought the density
gradient would be established by gravity, but apparently that is not
enough.
>
> >The easiest way to do that is to pump greenhouse gasses into
> >the air in huge quantities and then to heat the lower atmosphere
> >using either heat pumps such as open exchangers at nuclear
> >stations or massive moholes (the Red Mars books explain these
> >well).
>
> Now I'm even more lost. Will greenhouse gases selectively
> heat the lower atmosphere? How will this result in a
> higher temperature in the upper atmosphere?
>
Yes, greenhouse gasses *mostly* are in the 'lower-upper' regions of
the atmosphere and heat up the gasses below them. You get something
called the 'thermocline' - don't ask me what it is (I swiped that from
the Britannica).
>
>
> >Finally, you introduce nitrogen-fixing bacteria into the soil in
> >huge quantities,
>
> If the bacteria thrive, you don't really have to start
> with huge quantities (at least, not huge on a planetary
> scale), as they can reproduce rather effectively.
>
They do, but bacteria are very zonal in reporoduction - they don't
make a planetary colony so much as regional ones, in very small
regions (around a mile or so on Earth). You would want them pretty
much planet-wide, so you need to dump in a lot (not in planetary
terms, but definately in sheer tonnage).
>
> >dump extravagant amounts of plants everywhere you can reach
> >and provide minimal levels of oxygen near the plants - leave
> >them to make enough of their own. Algae would probably be best,
> >but they are lousy for setting up a stable ecology.
>
> I'm not sure that algal ecologies are any less stable
> than those based on other photosynthetic organisms. Terra
> made due with blue-green algae (photosynthetic bacteria)
> for billions of years.
>
Algae are simple food-cycle beasties and don't need much in the way of
interactions with other organisms. Chlorophyllic plants tend to have
complex ecologies with many other inter-relationships.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:30:04 -0800
From: "David P. Summers"
Subject: Re: Another 15 minutes of fame!!!
From: "Luther Martin"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:35:14 -0800
>Hey, guess who's picture is on the front page of the San Jose Mercury News.
>It's for the headline story about the recent wave of Internet hacks. My wife
>is already buying extra copies for relatives.
So your real name is "group of executives"? Can we call you "group"
for short?
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net. My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:33:33 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
In a message dated 2/10/00 9:41:43 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
rboleyn@paradise.net.nz writes:
<< I never joined the service, because I refused to be called Captain
> Kimmel....:-)
>
Then you should've joined as an enlisted man, that way it'd be
"Corporal Kimmel" :)
>>
UGH; even worse...:-)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:37:53 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
In a message dated 2/10/00 2:36:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!, wombat@premier.net
writes:
<< Could be worse. If you commissioned in the Navy, you'd postpone that
rank until you made O-6. Unfortunately, if you then made O-7, you'd
have the bad karma of being Admiral Kimmel (see Pearl Harbor attack). >>
I think he may have been a distant relative, and I wouldn't join the Navy for
just that reason; everywere I would go, I would be considered a bad luck
"jonah"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:43:28 EST
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Meals Rejected by Eneri
In a message dated 2/10/00 5:37:30 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:
<< Assume that steak would have fed 100 troops as nice broiled tips. Make it
SOS and it feeds a thousand.
-- >>
In that case, I'd of requesitioned much cheaper cuts like flank or skirt
steak, or REAL cheap stewing meat like chuck...:-). I think my late father
was emphasing the stupidity of whoever ordered such expensive cuts, and then
ruined them...I see dumb stuff like this at work too...
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1895
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Traveller-digest Thursday, February 10 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1896
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1893
Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: Word Generators
re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: robot economics
Re: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
Re: JTAS Online
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
RE: British imperialism, et al.
Re: robot economics
Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
re: robot economics
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1894
Re Robots
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1894
Re: Day length and clock conversions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:53:37 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
From: Walter Smith
> The above is the heart of my suspicion about the "Evil Dutch
> Matches Destroyed Our Village's Morality" story. A significant,
> generalized change in behaviour was hung on one thing - that
> people could now get matches. Was the relationship really that
> clear-cut?
It sure looks that way to me, considering the idea that the whole thing
hinges on matches.
> Like no one would notice that Shionta keeps putting out her fire
> in the middle of the day. :-)
I know you're joking, but they might. Then Shionta might get in trouble. If
I'm remembering correctly, however, the lack of matches brought with them a
situation where it was difficult to trust anyone else and nearly impossible
to prove or disprove allegations concerning marital infedility. Under the
previous method which the village had used, this was lessened severely.
> This kind of thinking - distilling complex situations into One Cause -
> is just as dangerous a "western way" as the individualism you seem
> to think is a western monopoly.
Okay. First, things first: I never said the Western belief that moral
choices are internal and have no bearing on the community as a whole was
dangerous. I merely said that it was typical. For the most part, there *is*
a Western monopoly on that sort of belief.
Second, if a situation appears to distill down to one cause, I see no reason
not to look at it that way. Usually I don't. From what I understand of the
situation, there seems to be pretty much one cause here.
Is it a complex situation though? It doesn't seem to be particularly
complex. When there were no matches people who wanted to engage in
intercourse ran a much higher risk of getting caught and ostracized by their
community than after the introduction of matches. Matches turned adultery
into something which could not be proved or disproved. There was a marked
increase in disputes concerning adultery.
The situation doesn't seem to be particularly complex in hindsight, but is
tough to predict in foresight.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:10:33 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1893
>From: Peter Newman
>Unfortunately we _can't_ choose our limitations, they
>are imposed by Book 8. At TL 13+ the robot crew being
>is clearly superior. The canonical non robotically
>crewed tramp freighter must (at TL 12+) be explained
>by reasons other than economics. But since [IMNSHO] pretty
>much all human behavior not explained by physics or
>sociobiology is explainable be economics this is difficult.
I've been waiting for the proper lead in for this little
essay and you've finally produced it. Thank you.
In short. Saturation of the economy with robotics will
lead to inevitable economic imballances leading to
the demise of the Imperial Megacorps.
Allow me to ellucidate. The 3I is a trade confederation
ruled by the nobles for the benefit of the megacorps.
At first glance it would appear to be to the benefit of
these same megacorps to use the cheapest labor source
possible (not just as starship crew but as plant managers,
farmers, cable installers etc.) but this is in the long run
emphatically not so.
Consider if you will the long term consequences of robotic
replacement of sophont labor on a large scale.
Allmost everybody is out of work. This of course not seen
as a problem by the megas immediately. But they soon
find that since everybody is out of work nobody has any
money.(Except for the tiny subsetof people who own stock
in the megacorps.) Now this itself doesn't concern the 'corps either
untill it's realized that nobody can buy anything because
nobody has any money.
The galactic stock market collapses and now even the
Megacorp shareholders don't have any money. The people
revolt, the nobles are killed, and trade between the planets
comes to a standstill.[1]
The simple sollution is to distribute shares in the megacorps
evenly to all citizens of the Imperium.
But that would be sociallism. And sociallism is, as we all know,
*bad for business.*
So the megacorporations and the Imperial Nobility conspire
on a grand scale to keep robots from being anything other than
toys for the ultra-rich or comic relief in dramatic presentations
depicting the archetypal strugle between good and evil.
The upshot of it all is that if a free trader in the backwoods
of the marches chooses to buy a robot pilot the powers that be
will look the other way. If on the other hand a major shipper
attempts to outfit all of their luxury liners with robot engineering
crew they will find all sorts of obstacles in their path.
Not withstanding your exaustive study of the relative
Inexpensiveness of robotic crew, economics is indeed
the reason for the paucity of robots in the 3I.
[1] Perhaps this explains the collapse of the ROM.
The Villani new that robotics have a destabilizing effect
on classic economics but the upstart Sollies (who were
known to use robots in combat support roles at least)
hadn't been arround long enough to discover the
longterm costs of technology that appears so efficient
in the short term analysis.
David Shayne
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Veni, Vidi, Vaca.
I came, I saw, I had a cow
- Bart Caeser
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:09:19 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 01:02 PM 2/10/2000 EST, you wrote:
>
>> Oligarchy: 2 : a government in which a small group exercises control esp.
> for
>> corrupt and selfish purposes; also : a group exercising such control
>>
>> The Chicago Machine.
>
> The National Football League Owners.
At least they share the wealth. The MLB owners don't.
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:11:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: Stop - in the name of major wounds
On Thu, 10 Feb 2000 Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 2/10/00 2:36:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!, wombat@premier.net
> writes:
>
> << Could be worse. If you commissioned in the Navy, you'd postpone that
> rank until you made O-6. Unfortunately, if you then made O-7, you'd
> have the bad karma of being Admiral Kimmel (see Pearl Harbor attack). >>
>
> I think he may have been a distant relative, and I wouldn't join the Navy for
> just that reason; everywere I would go, I would be considered a bad luck
> "jonah"
>
I'm friends with his granddaughter, Leigh-- is she related to you? I've
actually been wondering this for ages.
Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 20:57:10 -0500
From: Robert Prior
Subject: Re: Word Generators
>In a message dated 2/8/00 1:43:00 PM Central Standard Time,
>kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk writes:
>
><< > > Anybody have any that work, or that I haven't seen before? >>
>
>I have a working Excel spreadsheet that generates Vargr words.
The BITS website has two Mac products that also generate words. One is a
HyperCard stack (called MegaLinguist), the other is the application
Imperial Grand Survey.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 19:15:54 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: re: Social Impact Statements
Chris Seamans wrote:
>>Was the relationship really that clear-cut?
>
>It sure looks that way to me, considering the idea that the whole thing
>hinges on matches.
Difference of opinion here. You accept the researcher's conclusion that
it was a clear cut situation, his conclusion raises a skepticism in me
(with what I believe about human nature) that makes me suspect the
situation was more complex and makes me want to look twice.
And in my opinion, it is quite acceptable to question the morality of
a group that were one box of matches away from cheating on their
spouses. Morality isn't what you do when you *can't* misbehave,
it's how you behave when you *can*.
Walt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:36:38 -0800
From: "Luther Martin"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
Walt Smith wrote:
> The above is the heart of my suspicion about the "Evil Dutch Matches
> Destroyed Our Village's Morality" story. A significant, generalized change
> in behaviour was hung on one thing - that people could now get matches.
> Was the relationship really that clear-cut?
Can anyone provide a reference to the actual facts of this incident? My
intuition tells me that there is more to the story than can be easily be
presented in a few dozen lines of e-mail.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:40:07 +1100
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
Subject: Re: robot economics
> The question becomes "is that personal responsibility of the supervisor
>for all actions/omissions" or the usual where you sanitize ownership
>through a limited liability structure and no one is responsible for much
>of anything, beyond the companies exposure to fiscal penalties?
>
> The head purser may not be keen on doing time for assault if a servo-bot
>spills boiling tea on a passenger...
>
> Steven Hudson
But unless a 'bot is more dextrous than a human, there is little reason
for building one. Theoretically, you're minimising your vulnerability to
liability by purchasing that 'bot.
'Company General Order 354876: Stewards are not to interact with
passengers except through robot proxy.'
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:05:35 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
Well ttthhhhhrrruuuuuppppp!!!!! to all of you....I spent 20 years (Aug 69'-
Oct 89') in the United States Army Security Agency (USASA), a colorful
flavor of Military Intelligence. We had a few sayings and abilities too:
1. Watching the infantry go by - "Hey where are they going, do they
know where the showers are?"
2. When MP's pulled us over in military vehicles - "Sorry we're couriers
and we can't let you look in the vehicle."
3. When we saw a skinny mess steward in the mess hall - "Man I'm
not eating here, the mess sergeant don't even eat his own food."
4. We were saturated with linguists so when we went on exercises
in foreign countries we would send them down town to get local
food so that we didn't have to eat C-Rats.
5. Going out into the woods proved slightly taxing but we usually
had refrigerators in our huts (mounted on 2 1/2 & 5 ton trucks)
with 15KW generators. The huts were air conditioning of course.
6. Analyzing intelligence allowed us to make commanders look
really good or really bad. We would send them into situations
where they would be (simulated) decimated by the Opposing
Forces.
Our shoulder patch was a shield w/blue background and an eagle claw (black &
gold) holding a bundle of lightening bolts (yellow) with a gold border. Most
of the training took place at Ft. Devens so we called it "Massachusetts
Power & Light". We had ditty that went with that, sung to the tune of "The
Ballad of the Green Beret". It went....
Black is for the night we fear.
Blue is the water we don't go near.
Red is for the blood we shed,
As you notice there ain't no red!
White is for the flag we fly,
Yellow is the reason why!
Working with linguists at many different posts all around the world, I
learned several saying in over 20 languages. One of the more important I
learned, for when you had to surrender was, "I know secrets!" I also learned
to order pussy and beer in over 20 languages, real important stuff when
you're on a hard ship tour....
here and now.>
Thom Harris
Chief Warrant Officer
United States Army (Ret.)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Rupert Boleyn"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
>
>
> On 10 Feb 00, at 9:26, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> > At 02:46 PM 2/9/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> > >
> > >Hey Mr. D. Berry I was in the Army from 1984-1992 - A grunt too...
11BC2
> >
> > Dragon-dude!
> >
> > >I am the Infantry, Queen of Battle! For two centuries I have kept our
> > >Nation safe by Purchasing freedom with my blood. To tyrants I'am the
day
> > >of reckoning, and to the oppressed I'm their hope. Where the fighting
is
> > >thick est, there am I! I am the Infantry! FOLLOW ME!
> >
> > Heh. FOLLOW ME is the motto of the Infantry, and there is a statue
called
> > Iron Mike in front of Building 4 at Ft. Benning.
>
> The New Zealand Infantry's motto is simply "Onward". We never had many
> jokes about it, and offiver was dumb enough to use it as an order.
>
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn"
>
> An pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:16:46 -0500
From: "Thom Harris"
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
Well burn them onto standard CD media instead of the "Re"recordable media.
You will now get long term storage but won't have the ability to manipulate
the data.
Thom Harris
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jory Earl"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
> What must I do to protect my data on my CD-R's? I have 20 CD-R's packed
> with important data that cannot be replaced. I've put a substantial
amount
> of money into this technology thinking it was safe.
> ___________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:16:19
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
At 11:59 AM 2/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Girls of the Solomani Rim
>Belter Women Out of Their Vacc Suits!
>Exotic Ladies of Terra
>The Terran Swimsuit Calendar
>The Ling Standard Products Hostile Environment Calendar
>The Imperial Birthday Suit Calendar
>Noble Women of Dingir Sector
"The Lady Marines of the 1183rd Regimet: Out of the can..."
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:24:56 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: British Imperialism to the Stars
At 03:35 PM 2/10/00 +1100, you wrote:
> I live in one of the few places where westerners pulled off a successful
>genocide, in Tasmania. It just seems strange that other places view their
>particular genocides as victories against barbarians. I personally think one
>death is a tragedy, but the western mindset with it's horror and denial of
>death as a natural thing burns things like this into the myth/history of
>it's inhabitants. People here have a very hard time realising that their
>ancestors murdered an entire race for what they considered good reasons. An
>entire planet? We've done worse than that, humans only seem to show true
>creativity when slaughter is involved.
> Jim
>
Yep. Even Canada has a entry in the genocide list....
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:39:59 -0500
From: "Terry Carlino"
Subject: RE: British imperialism, et al.
>Simon Jester (Doug G) wrote:
>> It was my understanding reading the background for TNE that
>> by the time it takes place, there IS no 3I, just ashes and
>> ragged survivors.
>
>The Regency (in the Domain of Deneb) was in essence a relatively
>unscathed fragment of the 3I. It changed its name, created a
>quarentine zone (against Virus), made peace with the Zhodani
>Consulate, and started to democratise itself.
>
>
>
>> I just really wished TNE had lasted long enough for me to
>> find out the deal concerning the 'Dark Emperess'.
>
>Ah, yes. The Empress Wave. Don't we all!
Perhaps we'll still get the chance. Somewhere in G:T it says that, although
the assassination of Strephon never happened, that the Emperor was absent
from Capital at the same time as during the MT storyline and for the same
reason. As I recall Strephon was at Longbow II getting data on the Empress
Wave. So maybe....
Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:55:01 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: robot economics
Walter Smith wrote
> Thing wrote:
> >Ultimately I would view the captain of the ship as responsible for the
> >well being of the passengers, the performance/actions of the crew, and
> >the state and safety of equipment including robots.
>
> Responsible, yes...but if I'm Captain, and my Steward assaults a
> passenger, do I go to jail? Steve's read of robot regs seems to make
> a robot a direct extension of the owner (supervisor), with each act
> legally treated as if the owner had done it themselves. Thus a
> malfunctioning robot that harmed someone wouldn't be a civil liability
> matter, like someone scalded by a malfunctioning shower - it would
> be a criminal matter, as if I had thrown boiling water on you.
The way to get around this is to register your starship
under the laws of some planet where ships Captains
can do whatever the heck they want. If passengers do
not have _any_ rights then they have no cause of action
for the violation of said rights.
If they give you any grief about your robot spilling
boiling water on them then you should space them.
"Obviously any free speech which dares to
question, in _any_ way, the actions of the ships Captain,
and/or his robots, is prejudicial to the smooth
functioning of the ship. Clearly it is no better than
inciting to piracy, mutiny, barratry, murder, grand
theft and a host of other charges. Obviously it is
the clear moral duty of the ships Captain to act
immediately to prevent this threat by _immediately_
spacing said passenger. Anyone who questions your
actions obviously must be spaced as well. " - Legal
Opinion of the Attorney General of some world in your
campaign that probably gets a lot of ships registry business.
It's too bad your PC's did not bother to check the
home planet of record for this ship before they
boarded it....
[Even if few ships home ported from this planet
choose to be this draconian, for fear of the loss
of repeat business this does not mean the ship the
PC's are traveling in can not be the exception.]
Traveller Stats for Captain Bligh anyone ?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:00:01 EST
From: KenRoney@aol.com
Subject: Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
I always thought of the government of the Venetian city-state during the
middle ages as being a good representative for a charismatic oligarchy.
Although ostensibly a republic, the city was totally dominated by the leading
merchant families. They enjoyed great power and prosperity, and allowed a
significant amount to "trickle down" to the lower orders. The average
Venetian knew that they enjoyed a richer existance than the average medieval
peon, and as a result they seem to have loyally served and supported the
ruling oligarchy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:15:25 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: re: robot economics
Peter Newman wrote:
>The way to get around this is to register your starship
>under the laws of some planet where ships Captains
>can do whatever the heck they want. If passengers do
>not have _any_ rights then they have no cause of action
>for the violation of said rights.
>It's too bad your PC's did not bother to check the
>home planet of record for this ship before they
>boarded it....
In a 3I campaign, interstellar space = Imperial law. That's one
of the conditions of entry into the Imperium. Not 3I, of course,
anything goes.
Even if such a legal dodge is possible, all the passenger should
have to do is complain to their own government. Their government
lodges a complaint against the ship owner, and takes appropriate
action against him, his cargo, or his company's holdings in-system.
Even if the ship owner shrugs and stops calling at that system,
eventually he'll run out of systems to call at - computer records have
long memories. Somewhere, that wronged passenger will have a
home court advantage.
If the draconian ship owner gets enough people mad at him, a class
action suit might generate enough potential revenue to hire a starmerc
to bring him in with. If he can claim immunity to local law through the
legal dodges of a planet light years away, so can the star merc who
is seizing his ship.
Such attempts at reaching one world's law for light-years into other
world's systems is one reason for the Imperium laying down Imperial
law in the spaceways in the first place.
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:23:18 -0500
From: Ethan Henry
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1894
> As a Canadian (and an Albertan), I agree with your sentiments. However,
> my understanding is that an oligarchy occurs when a single family
> manages to maintain power. Think of a medieval king, who passes on the
> throne to his sons or daughters.
Well, you'll probably smack your hand to your head on this one, but
I think that passing the rule to your offspring is a monarchy, as only
one person is in power at once. An oligarchy implies (I think) a
small group of people, ruling at the same time.
Honestly, the Canadian government, especially under the Liberals
who have held the power for most of my life (save the time under
Mulroney and the odds and ends who came and went, like Campbell
Clark) could be considered a Charismatic Oligarchy.
Someone else already pointed out that it's charismatic on the basis
of the fairly high approval ratings regardless of what the government
seems to do.
As for the oligarchy bit - you could consider the Parlimentary cabinet,
an incestuous beast at the best of times - to be an oligarchy. Plus,
Liberal leaders are almost always extensively groomed by their
predecessor - Martin under Chretien, Chretien under Trudeau, Trudeau
under whoever came before him (Pearson? History is not my strong suit).
Anyways, Canada is Giv code C as far as I'm concerned. Though there's
a case to be made for 3 - Self Perpetuating Oligarchy, 6 - Captive
Government (figure it out yourself), 7 - Balkanization (at least until
the PQ gets voted out), NOT 8, as Civil Service Bureaucracies select
for "expertise", obviously unlike most Canadian government offices
(HRDC in particular...) and probably anything from 9 on up.
Geez, maybe the government codes are't quite as unambigous as
I once thought.
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:36:47 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Robots
>David Jacques-Watson wrote:
>>c. In the 3I, the robot's owner is directly responsible (liable) for
>>_everything_ that the robot does.
>>
>>The last point, above, may be at least _one_ reason that people steer
>>clear of robotic pilots.
>
>With regard to Pilots - isn't the ship owner, who presumably owns the
>built-in robot pilot, already directly responsible for damage caused by
>his ship?
>
>Walt Smith
No. The Captain/Skipper is. The owner is responsible for the actions of the
Captain, but that's a fundimentally different kind of law. Now, if the
Owner is also the Captain, yes, he's the final point of suit.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:52:16 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1894
Ethan Henry writes about C, eh! N, eh! D, eh!:
>
> Well, you'll probably smack your hand to your head on this one, but
> I think that passing the rule to your offspring is a monarchy, as only
> one person is in power at once. An oligarchy implies (I think) a
> small group of people, ruling at the same time.
>
> Honestly, the Canadian government, especially under the Liberals
> who have held the power for most of my life (save the time under
> Mulroney and the odds and ends who came and went, like Campbell
> Clark) could be considered a Charismatic Oligarchy.
>
> Someone else already pointed out that it's charismatic on the basis
> of the fairly high approval ratings regardless of what the government
> seems to do.
>
> As for the oligarchy bit - you could consider the Parlimentary cabinet,
> an incestuous beast at the best of times - to be an oligarchy. Plus,
> Liberal leaders are almost always extensively groomed by their
> predecessor - Martin under Chretien, Chretien under Trudeau, Trudeau
> under whoever came before him (Pearson? History is not my strong suit).
>
> Anyways, Canada is Giv code C as far as I'm concerned. Though there's
> a case to be made for 3 - Self Perpetuating Oligarchy, 6 - Captive
> Government (figure it out yourself), 7 - Balkanization (at least until
> the PQ gets voted out), NOT 8, as Civil Service Bureaucracies select
> for "expertise", obviously unlike most Canadian government offices
> (HRDC in particular...) and probably anything from 9 on up.
So who did Monsieur Bouchard learn his trade from?
- --
Josh W. Spencer (macmanjws@earthlink.net)
Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~macmanjws
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:07:01 -0500
From: Thad Coons
Subject: Re: Day length and clock conversions
In reply, Leonard wrote:
>> IMTU, Early terran scouts adopted the convention of dividing
>> each planetary sol into multiples of four dura, so that one
>> dura was close to one standard hour, but not identical to it.
>> This made the mental transition from "ship time" to "planet
>> time" and back reasonably easy. Merchants adopted the
>> convention as well, for similar reasons.
>Interesting though. Not sure how well it'd work. I'll have to
>play with it some. And I'm willing to bet that settlers in some
>places would screw it up. If the sol was roughly 18 hours, I'd
>be *really* tempted to use 18 duras not 16 or 20. Because 3
>shifts of 6 duras (6 hours each), makes more sense than 4 shifts
>of 4 duras (4.5 hours each)
The 24 hour day on earth comes from the Roman practice of
dividing day and night each into three watches of four hours
each. The sixteen dura division divides daytime and nighttime
each in about half, so a case could could be made either way. How
about a division of the sol into a multiple of four or six duras,
whichever gives a dura closest to one hour?
>Actually, anybody exposed to science or engineering would know
>days, hours, minutes and seconds. Because those get used in
>engineering *because* they are constant.
Depending on the world, those might be treated like the metric
system is in the United States, useful in science, engineering,
and intersystem commerce, but awkward for everyday use.
>He'll be used to seeing instructions about "stir for 10
>minutes", or "clean filters every 100 hours of operation" on
>stuff from off-world. Or even on stuff for on-world use if there
>are several planets in system that are "habitable" enough for
>folks to worry about the sol.
Since the dura would usually be within a few percent of an hour,
some worlds would probably speak of "hours" to mean their dura,
and "minutes" and "seconds" to mean corresponding local
divisions. In such places, a "Standard hour", "Standard minute"
and "standard second" would mean the interstellar standard
version and not everyone would be aware of the difference. Other
worlds might use different names, a decimal division, or some
such.
>Like I said, *everyone* while be at least *somewhat* familiar
>with days, hours, etc. Even if they are usually converting them
>to "back home" sols and duras.
It would be common knowledge among educated people that sols
differ in length, but since most people don't leave their home
planets or deal in interstellar affairs and commerce, the green
recruit may very well need an introduction in how to do rough
conversions. Everyone who needs more precise detail uses a
computer to do more exact converions.
This also creates some difficulties with passengers. IMTU,
most starships use the Terran convention of a 24 standard hour
day for ship time (though some use the Vilani convention). Either
convention differs both in length and timing from planets
everywhere.
So, do stewards adapt mealtimes and stateroom lighting to the
home world of their passengers, their destination world, or not
at all? Should passengers keep their homeworld cycle as long as
possible, adjust to the ship cycle and then readjust at their
destination, or try to adapt on the way? "Clock shift" ought to
be at least as much a problem to interstellar passengers as jet
lag is to international airline travel, and for the most part
would be equally unavoidable.
Another question to look at is whether time behaves
differently in jumpspace than in normal space, and if so, how
ships solve the problem of synchronizing their own time with
Imperial astrogation beacons and the like.
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1896
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Traveller-digest Friday, February 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1897
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: Social Impact Statements
Re: Meals rejected by Eneri
Canadian Government Code
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1894
Re: robot economics
See you later everybody!
re: Social Impact Statements
RE: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
Re: 101 Robots DGP
Oligarchies
World Generation System Example on-line
Re: robot economics
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1894
re: robot economics
Re Robots
re: robot economics
Re: Another 15 minutes of fame!!!
RE: JTAS Online
RE: Social Impact Statements
RE: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
RE: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
RE: Ranks
Freespace Traveller?
RE: robot economics
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:09:04 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: Re: Social Impact Statements
From: Walt Smith
> Difference of opinion here. You accept the researcher's conclusion
> that it was a clear cut situation, his conclusion raises a skepticism in
> me (with what I believe about human nature) that makes me suspect
> the situation was more complex and makes me want to look twice.
Considering that I have no idea what you believe about human nature, I don't
really know what to make of that.
> And in my opinion, it is quite acceptable to question the morality of
> a group that were one box of matches away from cheating on their
> spouses. Morality isn't what you do when you *can't* misbehave,
> it's how you behave when you *can*.
Actually, to repeat myself: I don't believe that it was the case that an
increase or decrease in adultery was discovered. Indeed, such research would
have been pretty difficult to perform, which was my point in the first
place. What previously could be discovered, relatively easily, could not be
discovered with any degree of certainty at all anymore. For all that anybody
knows, nobody might have been sleeping around, or *everybody* might have
been sleeping around. That's irrelevant to whether or not their system of
morality was undermined. Of course, the idea that matches made adultery more
likely seems to be where your argument lies, which has never been the point
that I've been arguing. With that being said, I think you missed my point
entirely.
Now, on the other hand, to call into question the moral system of a society,
that's not my job, and I don't believe I have the right. After all, no
matter how effective your "personal choice" version of a moral system is,
it's not going to stop everybody. In situations such as people have lived
throughout much of history, moral transgressions can be something which have
very serious consequences for the whole society, and frequently have serious
repercussions for the people involved.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 04:12:17 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Meals rejected by Eneri
Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:
>In that case, I'd of requesitioned much cheaper cuts like flank or skirt
>steak, or REAL cheap stewing meat like chuck...:-). I think my late father
>was emphasing the stupidity of whoever ordered such expensive cuts, and then
>ruined them...I see dumb stuff like this at work too...
I remember a story my mother told me about a visit to a warship back when she
was a girl. There was a big oldfashioned wood-burning stove in the galley and
the cook was breaking eggs in a HUGE frying pan. There must have been 30 eggs
or so in the pan when the cook broke one that turned out to be rotten. He
stood there for a moment looking at the mess, then casually turned the frying
pan around, dumping the eggs into the fire below and started breaking eggs
into the pan again. Her parents weren't particularily rich and the sight of
30 eggs casually dumped into the fire made a big impression on her.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Certainly not,' Gub-Gub retorted.'Vermicelli Minestrone
was a poet - a famous food poet. He married Tabby Ochre.
It was a runaway match. But she stuck to him through thick
and thin. People said she was a colourless individual and
would stick to anything. But he loved her dearly and they
were very happy. They had two children - Pilaf and Maca-
roni. He was a great man, was Minestrone. His library con-
sisted of nothing but cookery books - cookery books of
every age and of every language. But he wrote some beauti-
ful verses. His Spaghetti Sonnets, his Hominy Homilies, his
Farina Fantasies - well, you should read them. You would
never say again there was no romance in food.'
'It's a sort of cereal story,' groaned Jip."
--- Hugh Lofting's "Doctor Dolittle's Caravan"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:27:11 -0500
From: Ethan Henry
Subject: Canadian Government Code
(Subject changed because I messed it up before)
"Josh W. Spencer" wrote:
> Ethan Henry writes about C, eh! N, eh! D, eh!:
Hey! Watch the Eh? jokes, eh?
> So who did Monsieur Bouchard learn his trade from?
Oh, geez. Parizeau (sp?), Rene Leveque, the whole line of
PQ leaders right back to the beginning (again, history isn't
my strong suit, so I don't know whose fault the PQ is).
Man, the PQ has one stong line of leadership. Bouchard may
be the most (in)famous, but he sure isn't the first separatist
leader in Canada.
ObTrav: Is there a government code for balkanized oligarchies?
Ethan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:35:11 -0700
From: Erwin Fritz
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1894
Ethan Henry wrote:
>
> > As a Canadian (and an Albertan), I agree with your sentiments. However,
> > my understanding is that an oligarchy occurs when a single family
> > manages to maintain power. Think of a medieval king, who passes on the
> > throne to his sons or daughters.
>
> Well, you'll probably smack your hand to your head on this one, but
> I think that passing the rule to your offspring is a monarchy, as only
> one person is in power at once. An oligarchy implies (I think) a
> small group of people, ruling at the same time.
>
*smack* I must learn to wait until AFTER the coffee settles in before
responding.
*smack* I must learn to wait until AFTER the coffee settles in before
responding.
*smack* I must learn to wait until AFTER the coffee settles in before
responding.
Yes, you're right, of course.
- --
Erwin Fritz
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 04:36:24 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: robot economics
Peter Newman writes:
>Traveller Stats for Captain Bligh anyone ?
No, but you can have a quote.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
- "You don't know wood from canvas,
and you evidently don't want to learn.
Well, I'll teach you!"
- Captain Bligh
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:58:23 -0500
From: "Chris Seamans"
Subject: See you later everybody!
Yeah. Tonight I came to the realization that I need to spend considerably
more time with my studies than I am now. The TML, oddly enough, is sapping
time from my classwork.
So, after several years, but in the interest of good grades and a better
understanding of the world around me, I've got to ride off into the sunset,
and all that rot. I'll still be on the Traveller-Culture list, and my email
address will not change, so if anybody has any interest in dropping me a
line, feel free to do so.
I'll probably be back in the summer, so, until then:
"Ave atque vale."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:03:03 -0500
From: Walt Smith
Subject: re: Social Impact Statements
Chris Seamans wrote:
>Considering that I have no idea what you believe about human nature, I
>don't really know what to make of that.
Irrelevant...my point is, you accept the researcher's conclusion, I am
suspicious that some oversimplification may have occurred.
Chris again:
>Now, on the other hand, to call into question the moral system of a society,
>that's not my job, and I don't believe I have the right.
Chris, you started this with the claim that matches undermined the
moral underpinnings of the society in question. That sounds to me like
a significant judgement of this society on your part - especially since
you are making (or rather, supporting) a claim that is quite disparaging
to them, that their moral underpinnings were that easily weakened.
I thought it unlikely that they were this vulnerable, but my remark was
more sarcastic and less clear than I would have liked. Your arrogance
reply stung a bit, as in my opinion the researcher's study that you
accepted was the picture of arrogance.
Yes, that's a bit ironic - it's certainly arrogant of me to disparage the
work of a scientist whose work I barely remember. My readings of the
controversy surrounding Margaret Meade's _Coming of Age in Samoa_*
have spoiled me for anthropologists, I suppose.
Walt Smith
* There has been some contention that _Coming of Age in Samoa_
is flawed - that Meade had preconceptions that the bragging adolescents
and wily elders of Samoa played on, for attention and for amusement.
The result was a best seller that is regarded in some circles as at
best poor science, and at worst pure fiction - eventually. At first, it was
a seminal work that made Meade's career.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:36:14 -0800
From: Jesse DeGraff
Subject: RE: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
BTW, I *know* GPMG-type belt-fed can knock me down with recoil if
I'm not properly braced. Ask Jesse DeGraff and/or Doug Berry.
They've seen me shoot my HK-21 off-hand. :^)
Of course the, what, 1,200rpm cyclic rate of that particular HK21 might have
something to do with it, eh Mark? :)
Jesse
p.s. And yes, that gun WOULD Mark knock over, and that's no easy feat!
Check out
http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/shooting/winter_99-shoot.htm and
you'll see what I mean. Pics of Mark Cook, Doug Berry, and myself are
there.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:47:46 -0500
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)"
Subject: Re: 101 Robots DGP
Seems as though messages like this would make wonderful evidence should
anyone care to exercise their copyrights :-(
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "[snip]"
> I went rooting around in my Traveller boxes this evening and found
> I had either mislaid or allowed to be borrowed, my copy of DGP
> 101 Robots. Is there anyone willing to photo copy the whole
> shebang. I'll trade photo copy for photo copy.
>
> Things I have:
>
> All GDW LBB Supplements, Adventures, Double Adventures and
> Special Supplements, The Traveller Adventure, Atlas of the Imperium,
> Tarsus, Beltstrike
>
> Judges Guild 50 Starports, Crucis Margin, Glimmerdrift Reaches,
> Ley Sector, Traveller Spacecraft and Starships (?)
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:19:50 EST
From: Damage169@cs.com
Subject: Oligarchies
In a message dated 2/10/00 12:32:31 PM Central Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
<< Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:02:54 EST
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
In a message dated 2/10/00 8:29:59 AM Central Standard Time,
Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us writes:
<< My mind just went blank, and I'm trying to think of good examples of
a Charismatic Oligarchy government type. Does anyone have any
suggestions or real-world comparisons that could help me get a better
grasp on this government type? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
>>
Oligarchy: 2 : a government in which a small group exercises control esp.
for
corrupt and selfish purposes; also : a group exercising such control
The Chicago Machine. >>
Also, by that definition, both the Republican and the Democratic political
parties, in the US. Yeah, I guess it does.
Simon Jester
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:17:54 -0600
From: Robert James Eaglestone
Subject: World Generation System Example on-line
Howdy all,
I took my "world history generation system" for a test
drive tonight, and posted the results up on my website.
The main page is at
http:/members.home.com/eaglestone/index.html
From there, click on the link "planetary culture generation
system". This brings up the rules I used. Then click
on the link called "Take a look!" and it'll bring up my
example run-through [which caught lots of bugs and problems
with the system].
In case you're interested, I ran the system on Regina.
I didn't get quite the correct results, but I was only
off by about an order of magnitude... and that will
change next week, perhaps...
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:08:18 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: robot economics
>From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie"
>Subject: Re: robot economics
...
> But unless a 'bot is more dextrous than a human, there is little reason
>for building one.
Doesn't follow; the issue is economics, and dexterity is merely an issue
in calculating the costs (i.e., breakage, etc).
A comp/robot-operated forklift may not put a blade into a $13,000 lens
array, but it may not be able to deal with a box of electronics that's
fallen off of the pallet. It may not even "know" the crucial difference
between a crate of Kibbles `n Vargr Bitz and the tins of sturgeon caviar
imported 80 parsecs from the Rim - maybe it should summon help to get it
checked and back into a reefer _now_?
Then again, the same can be said of non-High Autonomous humans, and most
of us before our first coffee, yes? :>
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:08:49 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1894
>From: "Josh W. Spencer"
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1894
...
>> Anyways, Canada is Giv code C as far as I'm concerned. Though there's
>> a case to be made for 3 - Self Perpetuating Oligarchy, 6 - Captive
>> Government (figure it out yourself), 7 - Balkanization (at least until
>> the PQ gets voted out), NOT 8, as Civil Service Bureaucracies select
>> for "expertise", obviously unlike most Canadian government offices
>> (HRDC in particular...) and probably anything from 9 on up.
>
>So who did Monsieur Bouchard learn his trade from?
Levesque, of course (first Parti Quebecois premier), but also
Mulroney, ironically - Bouchard was the Consie leiutenant for
Quebec when he decided to go into business for himself...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:09:06 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: robot economics
>From: Walter Smith
>Subject: re: robot economics
...
The stewards sort of need to be sentient for customer relations uses -
that can be considered a handwave or not. OTOH, cargo handlers, bridge,
engine room and many maintenance `bots need never see a customer...
>Certainly, one can have safeguards - and for every safeguard, there
>can be a countermeasure. For every auto-running diagnostics program,
>there can be a "diagnostics update patch" to make the program ignore
>the last set of changes. For every automatic shutdown and load from
>ROM procedure, there can be a flashrom update or ROM replacement
>chip. No security system is perfect, whether we're talking background
>checks on human crews or anti-tampering equipment on robotic crew.
Keep it cheap: dumbots - slave `em to the master rig in the computer
room - at least for the non-crucial portables. That you shouldn't be
able to hack - without Virus :>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:21:05 -0900
From: "William F. Hostman"
Subject: Re Robots
Peter Newman writes:
>If they give you any grief about your robot spilling
>boiling water on them then you should space them.
>
>"Obviously any free speech which dares to
>question, in _any_ way, the actions of the ships Captain,
>and/or his robots, is prejudicial to the smooth
>functioning of the ship. Clearly it is no better than
>inciting to piracy, mutiny, barratry, murder, grand
>theft and a host of other charges. Obviously it is
>the clear moral duty of the ships Captain to act
>immediately to prevent this threat by _immediately_
>spacing said passenger. Anyone who questions your
>actions obviously must be spaced as well. " - Legal
>Opinion of the Attorney General of some world in your
>campaign that probably gets a lot of ships registry business.
Walt Smith Writes:
>
>In a 3I campaign, interstellar space = Imperial law. That's one
>of the conditions of entry into the Imperium. Not 3I, of course,
>anything goes.
Actually, walt, Peter is backed by canon. See the Traveller Adventure.
There is a reference that law aboard ship is based upon the world of
registry, except where admirality law codes specifically prohibit something.
And, IMTU, said attourney very shortly will be in "Imperial Detention
pending Treason Charges". And the registry would be announced as "Null And
Void" with a requirement to IMMEDIATELY re-register... Elsewhere. Siezure
until re-registered.
>It's too bad your PC's did not bother to check the
>home planet of record for this ship before they
>boarded it....
They, as subject of the imperium, are supposed to be safe from murder...
IMTU, one word of this afterword, and the Captain, and all the crew, will
be extremely wanted... IMTU IMOJ has a much more, shall we say,
pro-citizen/subject/victim view of "Unjustified termination of sapient
life". In short, IMTU, you can't take the life, but sure, you CAN lock them
up, hogtied, guarded, and IV fed, under sedation, until the next stop.
Whereupon you must release them or file charges with IMOJ or the locals or
the Embassy of the place you just left. If you space anyone without PROOF
they ACTIVELY took DIRECT action against the crew of the ship or the ship
itself, and did so in a manner capable of producing damage of a physical
nature, you WILL find out about adventure 8.
And why the next stop? Any further, and it's kidnapping! Also an imperial
crime. Local laws DON'T superceed admiralty rules on capital punishment;
sure, said example world from above MIGHT be willing to execute the
passenger in question, but the admirality codes prohibit spacing for simple
incitement.
William F. Hostman | "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis ICQ:14640742 ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:42:03 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: robot economics
>From: Walter Smith
>Subject: re: robot economics
...
>Responsible, yes...but if I'm Captain, and my Steward assaults a
>passenger, do I go to jail? Steve's read of robot regs seems to make
Correction - I said:
"
The question becomes "is that personal responsibility of the supervisor
for all actions/omissions" or the usual where you sanitize ownership
through a limited liability structure and no one is responsible for much
of anything, beyond the companies exposure to fiscal penalties? "
This was a response to your comment:
"
>With regard to Pilots - isn't the ship owner, who presumably owns the
>built-in robot pilot, already directly responsible for damage caused by
>his ship? "
...
>a robot a direct extension of the owner (supervisor), with each act
>legally treated as if the owner had done it themselves. Thus a
>malfunctioning robot that harmed someone wouldn't be a civil liability
>matter, like someone scalded by a malfunctioning shower - it would
>be a criminal matter, as if I had thrown boiling water on you.
B:8 (p.7) is very unclear; while the owner (operator? or LLC?) is
liable for actions, is he criminally liable if a robot taxi crashes
as an Act of Dice rather than criminal negligence in failing to
provide regular maintenance?
And while the Accords don't apply after IY 0, what law _does_? It
seems odd that a state arising from the Sylean Confed (with its own
very extensive regs on `bots) would not have _any_ laws regarding
the use of robots on Imperial property or on ships operating in
Imperial space (yes, I'm assuming that ships in Imperial space are
subject to Imperial law, whatever that might be).
Steven Hudson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:09:42 -0800
From: Kristian Miller
Subject: Re: Another 15 minutes of fame!!!
Luther Martin wrote:
>
> Hey, guess who's picture is on the front page of the San Jose Mercury News.
> It's for the headline story about the recent wave of Internet hacks. My wife
> is already buying extra copies for relatives.
But why are you wearing handcuffs? ;-0
Kristian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:18:08 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: JTAS Online
> How long have you been doing this sort of thing?
>
> Serious question: I've got several _large_ databases that only survive in
> print form, because the software I created them in is no longer available,
> or the disks have died, or I no longer have a computer that can read them.
I still have email in my Outlook folders that was originally recieved on a
BBC B computer via a bulletin board in the mid eighties, and the character
generation database (now in Access 2000) for our home-grown rule-system
still has data in it from the Visi-calc spreadsheet it started life in.
None of that is quite as old as Traveller, but I have _never_ had any data
loss problems other than accidental deletion of an email before it got to
the back-up.
And I'm not a REAL back-up nut either, no nightly backups or multiple
generation back-ups, I just store my data carefully. Currently it's stored
on two seperate hard drives on different machines in my network, and every
six moths or I burn it to CD-R, with weekly back-ups to CD-RW
So far, I have never needed to actually use my back-ups though, probably
because I ensure that my hardware get's replaced before it wears out. It
pays to replace your main data hard drive about once a year, though I'm
normally forced to do so due to capacity requirememnts anyway. Running a
pair of 8Gb drives currently, have to move to 16 or higher soon, I usually
avoid the higher storage devices until they're more mainstream
> I've been using a computer since before Traveller was published, so I'm
> extremely aware of just how short the life of digital data is, and how
> little I want to be bothered recopying my data every few years to stay
> technically current.
It's better than having to search through multiple boxes of paper every-time
you want to find something (and having to have those boxes of paper in a
searchable place).
Most software upgrades for me have involved only an hour or two's work every
couple of years. Certainly worthwhile to retain and improve electronic
search capability
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:33:28 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Social Impact Statements
> >Girls of the Solomani Rim
> >Belter Women Out of Their Vacc Suits!
> >Exotic Ladies of Terra
> >The Terran Swimsuit Calendar
> >The Ling Standard Products Hostile Environment Calendar
> >The Imperial Birthday Suit Calendar
> >Noble Women of Dingir Sector
>
> "The Lady Marines of the 1183rd Regimet: Out of the can..."
"Dulinor does Deneb"
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:42:51 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
> On 10 Feb 00, at 9:26, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> > Heh. FOLLOW ME is the motto of the Infantry, and there is a
> > statue calledIron Mike in front of Building 4 at Ft. Benning.
>
> The New Zealand Infantry's motto is simply "Onward". We never had many
> jokes about it, and offiver was dumb enough to use it as an order.
The New Zealand Air Force's is "Per ardua ad astra"
Which, back when the Ford Astra was new, prompted people to ask why the Air
Force's motto was advetising Ford cars.
Those that knew what it meant wanted to know how we were going to reach the
stars in a few grotty Skyhawks and a handful of Iroquois. Per bloody ardua,
alright !
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:42:51 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: D-Berry - Sorry off TML
> On 10 Feb 00, at 9:26, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
> > Heh. FOLLOW ME is the motto of the Infantry, and there is a
> > statue calledIron Mike in front of Building 4 at Ft. Benning.
>
> The New Zealand Infantry's motto is simply "Onward". We never had many
> jokes about it, and offiver was dumb enough to use it as an order.
The New Zealand Air Force's is "Per ardua ad astra"
Which, back when the Ford Astra was new, prompted people to ask why the Air
Force's motto was advetising Ford cars.
Those that knew what it meant wanted to know how we were going to reach the
stars in a few grotty Skyhawks and a handful of Iroquois. Per bloody ardua,
alright !
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:47:04 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Ranks
> In my unit, who had a Major who was not well liked, named
> Richard. Behind his back, he was always Major D**k...
Well, I have served with a Warrant Officer by the name of Bates, a baggie
whose name was Richard Head, and a young navy ensign with the name Peter
Niss.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 03:47:14 -0500
From: Peter Miller
Subject: Freespace Traveller?
Hi everyone,
As a big fan of Traveller, and of the space combat sim Freespace (I just
got number 2 - if you have a powerful enough computer, wow!), I was
recently toying with the idea of developing a Traveller campaign in the
Freespace world.
Basically, its set in the 24th century, centered (obviously) around
military events, with fighters playing a huge role in combat. Interstellar
travel is done through a series of stable 'jump nodes' around space. The
three races known are the Terrans, Vasudans (somewhat reptilian former
enemy) and the Shivans. The Shivans are a mysterious race of marauders;
but I think a Traveller campaign could peak into what their real motives
are. The game even talks about the Ancients too; a civilization that has
left artifacts across known space.
Anyhow, the storyline is pretty interesting, and the game provides a
mission editor and multiplayer options which leads me to think of a very
interested combination of events whereby the players play out in standard
FTF or PBeM fashion the roleplaying and personal comabt, etc. situations,
but then the referee uses the mission editor to create the fighter and
capital ship engagements; which the players then play out, either in one
house across a network or in a password protected session on the online
Freespace portal.
Peter Miller
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:00:51 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: robot economics
> So you are saying there is no way possible to safe guard robots against
> 'hacking'? They don't come with auto-running diagnostics that detect
> changes in parameters and wipe the changed net and upload from rom?
There's no way to make them unhackable by the people trusted to maintain
them.
It's relatively simple to make them unhackable by the passengers, just lock
all the access ports, and program them to raise the alarm and shut down if
those ports are accessed while the robot is not in the maintenance shop
(determined by inertial nav or something similar ), requiring a hardware
reboot using timed, hand-operated sequence that takes much longer than it
would normally take for security to descend on the robot.
While it's still possible that a hack may be performed, it would require
security to be really busy doing something else and they could still check
the robot later.
Of course, whether anyone would bother with even these precautions, I doubt,
given current commercial responsiveness to security problems.
Frankie
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1897
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Traveller-digest Friday, February 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1898
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
RE: Gaming Artists: Where are they now? (was: Re: Even more to doabout art)
RE: cross over adventures
RE: Stop - in the name of major wounds
Re: JTAS Online
Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
Re: Day length and clock conversions
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1893
Re: Imperial Law (was Re: Robots)
Re:Robots
Re: Day length and clock conversions
Re: JTAS Online
RE: Social Impact Statements
Re: JTAS Online
Military-Government mottos (was-D-Berry - Sorry off TML)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1893
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:33:20 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Gaming Artists: Where are they now? (was: Re: Even more to doabout art)
> >I'm not sure. The Willingham I'm thinking about did a number of
> pieces for various TSR game products in the '80s, especially for
> early Top Secret>modules (TS001 Operation: Rapidstrike, in particular).
Yep, that's the same guy.
> >I've seen Bill Willingham's _Coventry_ and it just doesn't seem
> >like the samestyle (or similar, it's been 10-15 years)
He's gotten a lot better.
> I wonder if it's the same Bill Willingham who wrote and drew the
> _Ironwood_ comic.
It is. Bill's first major series "The Elementals" was largely based around
the V&V(or was it Champions?) game "Island of Dr. Destroyer". Even the nale
of the IOSland and severaol of the villians and heroes are the same. But as
he wrote and illustrated that one as well, it's not really a copyrght
problem.
I remember that fondly, as my RPG Elementals rip-off was my most succesful
superhero RPG campaign, very dark, with lots of nastiness.
One of the nastiest (that has an Ob Trav) was the sicko with mind control
powers who took over a road-side diner. The characters were disgusted with
what he'd done with the other people in the diner, especially the
waitresses, but became really terrified when he told the group's "brick" to
"go and play in the traffic", and he did. How do you stop a Hulk-like
creature "playing" with the traffic on a motorway ?
The Ob Trav is to reinforce all those anti-psionic prejudices by having them
run into a sociapathic psionic with "mind control" powers.
It's nasty if you give this sort of characater a modicum of intelligence,
and _extremely_ nasty if you give a Hannibal Lector-type this ability.
Remember that guy in the X-files who made people set light to themselves ?
And that's just a crude way of hurting people.
> A little on the randy side, but the wife likes the erotic
> stuff, and I like the story, and the nubile elven maidens, etc...
Me, I liked the story about dragons and the demon that protected the main
female protagonist (among other things).
> I wouldn't mind seing his style of artwork in Traveller products,
He illustrated at least one Space Opera supplement pretty well.
> especially the erotic stuff... but MWM vetoed that (the erotic stuff)
> premptively a while ago.
Yeah, but remember, _Disney_ failed in their attempt to sue the makers of
the lewd version of Mickey Mouse. "Legitimate satirical use" was the
verdict, I believe.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:39:58 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: cross over adventures
> > Major SF geek that I am, I actually have one of those scarfs,
> > as well as the original Franz Joseph deck plans...
Ditto on the plans
> Speaking of the old Franz Joseph deck plans, has anyone ever tried
> making those plans "fit" as a Traveller ship?
Yes, back in the seventies when my only acces to Traveller materiel was a
borrowed set of the first three LBBs.
Had the FJ plans before that, first edition even.
Was utterly amazed to see them in a New Zealand shop.
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:00:01 +1300
From: "Frank G. Pitt"
Subject: RE: Stop - in the name of major wounds
> >And just *think* of the fun that could be created by dropping
> >Cletus Grahame into the Imperium. :-)
>
> I've often thought that.
Been there, done that.
The Dorsai finally got "disbanded" by the Imperium as just too damn
dangerous to have on sale, and were 'volunteered' into a clandestine
Imperial espionage unit that travelled the Imperium disguised as a
circus.....
Cletus became an advisor to the Iridium Throne, and was finally assasinated
by
the Hivers, partially because he'd discovered their manipulation of the
Imperium and the rest of known space and was beginnng to use it against
them, but mainly because when his friends found Grandfather's pocket
universe, there were a _lot_ of people who were just too damn scared of
Cletus having access to Ancient's knowledge and technology to allow him to
live any more.
Of course, Cletus knew all this, and there wasn't enough left of the
spaceship he was travelling in at the time to identify his body...
Frankie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:33:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
In mail you write:
> Well burn them onto standard CD media instead of the "Re"recordable media.
> You will now get long term storage but won't have the ability to manipulate
> the data.
That's expensive, as "standard CD media" is not "burned". It's
*pressed* from expensive to make "masters".
There are *three* kinds of "CD" media:
1. Factory pressed. *NO* drive can create these.
2. WORM. These can be written to (once) by the right kind of drive.
3. CD-r/w. These can be written to *and modified* by the right type of
drive.
Type 1 is the one that's likely to have the best lifetime. And, as
noted, is completely impractical for anything except mass-produced CDs.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:37:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Charismatic Oligarchy...
In mail you write:
> Glenn St-Germain wrote:
>>
>> >Greetings, All,
>> >
>> >My mind just went blank, and I'm trying to think of good examples of
>> >a Charismatic Oligarchy government type. Does anyone have any
>> >suggestions or real-world comparisons that could help me get a better
>> >grasp on this government type? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
>>
>> The Government of Canada comes to mind. True, elections are held every
>> so often, but they're always rigged to put the same idiots back into
>> power. They enjoy the confidence of the populace (they score high in
>> popularity polls), and do pretty much whatever they want...
>
> As a Canadian (and an Albertan), I agree with your sentiments. However,
> my understanding is that an oligarchy occurs when a single family
> manages to maintain power. Think of a medieval king, who passes on the
> throne to his sons or daughters.
Nope. Oligarchy is *not "family rule". It's rule by a *group*.
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:53:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Day length and clock conversions
In mail you write:
>
> In reply, Leonard wrote:
>
>>> IMTU, Early terran scouts adopted the convention of dividing
>>> each planetary sol into multiples of four dura, so that one
>>> dura was close to one standard hour, but not identical to it.
>>> This made the mental transition from "ship time" to "planet
>>> time" and back reasonably easy. Merchants adopted the
>>> convention as well, for similar reasons.
>
>>Interesting though. Not sure how well it'd work. I'll have to
>>play with it some. And I'm willing to bet that settlers in some
>>places would screw it up. If the sol was roughly 18 hours, I'd
>>be *really* tempted to use 18 duras not 16 or 20. Because 3
>>shifts of 6 duras (6 hours each), makes more sense than 4 shifts
>>of 4 duras (4.5 hours each)
>
> The 24 hour day on earth comes from the Roman practice of
> dividing day and night each into three watches of four hours
> each. The sixteen dura division divides daytime and nighttime
> each in about half, so a case could could be made either way. How
> about a division of the sol into a multiple of four or six duras,
> whichever gives a dura closest to one hour?
Actually, 24 hour days go back to *at least* Babylon. And I could go
into great detail about how to divide up a sol, but I plan to sell that
article. :-)
>>Actually, anybody exposed to science or engineering would know
>>days, hours, minutes and seconds. Because those get used in
>>engineering *because* they are constant.
>
> Depending on the world, those might be treated like the metric
> system is in the United States, useful in science, engineering,
> and intersystem commerce, but awkward for everyday use.
Remember, these places will have started out with the sol and dura as
"special purpose" units and days/hours as the "common" units. And it's
*real* unlikely that most time-related engineering units will get
re-calculated.
>>He'll be used to seeing instructions about "stir for 10
>>minutes", or "clean filters every 100 hours of operation" on
>>stuff from off-world. Or even on stuff for on-world use if there
>>are several planets in system that are "habitable" enough for
>>folks to worry about the sol.
>
> Since the dura would usually be within a few percent of an hour,
> some worlds would probably speak of "hours" to mean their dura,
> and "minutes" and "seconds" to mean corresponding local
> divisions. In such places, a "Standard hour", "Standard minute"
> and "standard second" would mean the interstellar standard
> version and not everyone would be aware of the difference. Other
> worlds might use different names, a decimal division, or some
> such.
Unlikely. Especially at the beginning. Because it's *way* to easy to
get into trouble if "hour" means two different things.
"It says we've got 4 hours of fuel left..."
"*Which* hour?"
You see, the whole *point* of duras being "duras" rather than "local
hours" is to *avoid* that kind of troubler.
>>Like I said, *everyone* while be at least *somewhat* familiar
>>with days, hours, etc. Even if they are usually converting them
>>to "back home" sols and duras.
>
> It would be common knowledge among educated people that sols
> differ in length, but since most people don't leave their home
> planets or deal in interstellar affairs and commerce, the green
> recruit may very well need an introduction in how to do rough
> conversions. Everyone who needs more precise detail uses a
> computer to do more exact converions.
>
> This also creates some difficulties with passengers. IMTU,
> most starships use the Terran convention of a 24 standard hour
> day for ship time (though some use the Vilani convention). Either
> convention differs both in length and timing from planets
> everywhere.
> So, do stewards adapt mealtimes and stateroom lighting to the
> home world of their passengers, their destination world, or not
> at all? Should passengers keep their homeworld cycle as long as
> possible, adjust to the ship cycle and then readjust at their
> destination, or try to adapt on the way? "Clock shift" ought to
> be at least as much a problem to interstellar passengers as jet
> lag is to international airline travel, and for the most part
> would be equally unavoidable.
Actually, I think the most likely setup on *passenger* ships (as
opposed to traders that occasionally carry passengers) would be for the
ship's day to be set such that the time of day when you leave matches
the local time of day t the port, and when you arrive, it does the
same. This helps prevent the equivalent of "jet lag".
Thus, it'd depend on what worlds you were jumping between...
> Another question to look at is whether time behaves
> differently in jumpspace than in normal space, and if so, how
> ships solve the problem of synchronizing their own time with
> Imperial astrogation beacons and the like.
If it did behave differently enough to worry about, it'd affect aging
rolls... :-)
- --
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:11:38 +0000
From: Phil Kitching
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1893
>From: Peter Newman
>Unfortunately we _can't_ choose our limitations, they
>are imposed by Book 8. At TL 13+ the robot crew being
>is clearly superior. The canonical non robotically
>crewed tramp freighter must (at TL 12+) be explained
>by reasons other than economics. But since [IMNSHO] pretty
>much all human behavior not explained by physics or
>sociobiology is explainable be economics this is difficult.
Nope, all it proves is that Books 8 is completely broken
from the point of integration into the Imperial background
of Traveller. Either the stuff is not available until
later tech levels or it should cost 10 or 100 times more.
If you treat Book 8 like the optional cyberwear gear in TNE,
there is no problem.
Dave Shayne wrote:
>Allow me to ellucidate. The 3I is a trade confederation
>ruled by the nobles for the benefit of the megacorps.
>At first glance it would appear to be to the benefit of
>these same megacorps to use the cheapest labor source
>possible (not just as starship crew but as plant managers,
>farmers, cable installers etc.) but this is in the long run
>emphatically not so.
>
>Consider if you will the long term consequences of robotic
>replacement of sophont labor on a large scale.
>Allmost everybody is out of work. This of course not seen
>as a problem by the megas immediately. But they soon
>find that since everybody is out of work nobody has any
>money.(Except for the tiny subsetof people who own stock
>in the megacorps.) Now this itself doesn't concern the 'corps
>either untill it's realized that nobody can buy anything because
>nobody has any money.
An alternate analysis suggests that wage levels will fall in jobs
replaced by robots until people can get jobs again.
Why can wages fall? Well, as you said above, the robots just made
everything cheaper so you don't need as much money to buy stuff.
On most Imperial worlds, land prices are cheap - judging by
available space per head.
Besides, this just enables people to setup .com businesses without
having to hire a large staff - just get the venture capitalists
to pay the deposits on your robots - voila, instant business,
complete with trained staff. Since each person can now do more
because their actions are multiplied by the robots, effective
personal wealth is much higher.
So you get back to Traveller, only now your five PCs are running
a 50kdT ship full of robot crew, more like the board of a corporation.
Phil Kitching
- --
http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 02:28:35 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re: Imperial Law (was Re: Robots)
"William F. Hostman" wrote
> Peter Newman writes:
> >If they give you any grief about your robot spilling
> >boiling water on them then you should space them.
> >"Obviously any free speech which dares to
> >question, in _any_ way, the actions of the ships Captain,
> >and/or his robots, is no better than
> >inciting to piracy, mutiny, barratry, murder, grand
> >theft and a host of other charges. Obviously it is
> >the clear moral duty of the ships Captain to act
> >immediately to prevent this threat by _immediately_
> >spacing said passenger" - Legal
> >Opinion of the Attorney General of some world in your
> >campaign that probably gets a lot of ships registry business.
> Walt Smith Writes:
> >In a 3I campaign, interstellar space = Imperial law. That's one
> >of the conditions of entry into the Imperium. Not 3I, of course,
> >anything goes.
Canon states that the Imperium rules "the space between the
stars" since jump space is not between the stars than
obviously Imperial law must not hold in jump space. If said
incitement to piracy occurs in jump space it is difficult to
imagine how the Third Imperium could claim jurisdiction
as the ship is not even in the same universe as the Imperium
at the time the crime occurs.
> Actually, walt, Peter is backed by canon. See the Traveller Adventure.
> There is a reference that law aboard ship is based upon the world of
> registry, except where admirality law codes specifically prohibit something.
This is the reference I was thinking of, although I could
not find it in a cursory examination of the book.
> And, IMTU, said attourney very shortly will be in "Imperial Detention
> pending Treason Charges". And the registry would be announced as "Null And
> Void" with a requirement to IMMEDIATELY re-register... Elsewhere. Siezure
> until re-registered.
>
> >It's too bad your PC's did not bother to check the
> >home planet of record for this ship before they
> >boarded it....
>
> They, as subject of the imperium, are supposed to be safe from murder...
But Imperial member worlds can, and do, have the death penalty.
I do not see any difference between being shot on site for
spitting on the sidewalk on one of those nice canonical
Extreme law level worlds and being spaced for "free speech"
on a ship registered from one of those worlds.
Either Imperial member worlds, and persons they designate,
have the right to kill people or they do not. Canon says
that they do have this right. Unless you are suggesting
that every executioner who carries out any death sentence
on any Imperial world can be brought up on Murder charges
if and when the Imperium feels like it i don't see any way
to reconcile the notion of the Imperial crime of
murder with the use of the death penalty in local law.
While I can see why the Imperium might find such a
privilege useful it seems to me that such a policy,
except perhaps in the case of Nobles, is at odds with the
notions of limited Imperial government and a feudal system.
Therefore the notion that Imperial subjects are supposed to
be safe from murder only applies in places where the
Imperium claims jurisdiction. Otherwise you are SOL.
> IMTU, one word of this afterword, and the Captain, and all the crew, will
> be extremely wanted... IMTU IMOJ has a much more, shall we say,
> pro-citizen/subject/victim view of "Unjustified termination of sapient
> life".
Why does your IMOJ care about killings by individuals in
positions of authority when the rest of the Imperial
government does not care about state sponsored killings.
Why can't ship captains kill people on a whim when other
people can if their local government lets them?
What's the difference?
It's not a question of supersession its a question of
jurisdiction. If you are in an area that the Imperium claims
to control then yes their rules apply. If you are _not_ in an
area the Imperium claims to control (the inside of a ship in
jump space in MTU) then they can't stop it. If you take the
position that the Imperium does claim to control ships in
jumpspace then I suppose the notion that Imperial law
covers treatment of those who incite to hijacking makes sense.
Would the ships captain have the right to space people for
sedition when he was in an area controlled by a local
government that had given him this right? If not then isn't
the Imperium abrogating the sovereignty of its member
worlds?
> sure, said example world from above MIGHT be willing to execute the
> passenger in question, but the admirality codes prohibit spacing for simple
> incitement.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 03:09:29 -0900
From: Peter Newman
Subject: Re:Robots
I just thought of a hand wave that will help explain
why ships in the canonical Traveller universe do not
have predominantly robotic crews despite the fact
that in canon the robots are much cheaper.
Robotic Ships Crew Rule
The percentage of a ships crew, at a given TL [the lower of
ships computer or ships electronics TL when dealing with a
ship constructed at multiple TL's] that may be robotic is
limited to the percentage of robotic brain CPU's that may
be synaptic at that TL (round down). These percentages do
not include Ships troops and subordinate craft pilots,
but only ships crew.
Using Bk. 8 Robots "Synaptic Limits" table (p. 30)
we see:
TL Reliable Reliable
Synaptic Robotic Crew
Percentage Percentage
12 10% 10%
13 15% 15%
14 25% 25%
15 50% 50%
16 60% 60%
17 85% 85%
18 95% 95%
Therefore using canonical ship designs
Ship Type/Ship TL Crew Max Robot Crew
Scout Courier/TL 15 1 0
Free Trader/TL 15 4 2
Far Trader/TL 15 3 1
Merc Cruiser/TL 15 8 2
[MT Imperial Encyclopedia p. 78 - 85]
Azhanti High Lightning 395 98
Class Cruiser/TL 14
Tigress Dreadnaught/TL 15 4,054 2,027
At Tl's below 14 most ships PC's will be
on can not have more than one robotic crew.
This should help maintain more of the Traveller
flavor.
Rationalization [yes I know it's thin]:
"Synaptic hardware, modeled after sophont brain
processes, in non-deterministic, and operates by
a method more akin to inductive learning.... At
lower tech levels, the inherent unreliability of
synaptic processors is so great that a large degree
of linear or parallel processing is needed to "check"
the results of the synaptic processing." - Bk. 8
Robots p. 21.
In other words regular (linear and parallel) robotic
CPU's can only "check up on" a limited number of
synaptic processors at a given TL. Arguably the
ships computer will have the _same_ problem in
dealing with robots and their partially synaptic
decisions. Which arguably implies that a ship might
have as many dumb-bots without any synaptic processors
as it wants but we'll ignore that to keep the hand wave
going. If you put more robots on the ship than
it can "cope with" problems may develop. {See Adv.
1 The Kinnunir, 2001 A Space Oddessy, lots of Star
Trek episodes, or even (if you feel evil) various
TNE sources for ideas.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:16:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Houghton
Subject: Re: Day length and clock conversions
Howdy!
Leonard wrote:
> > So, do stewards adapt mealtimes and stateroom lighting to the
> > home world of their passengers, their destination world, or not
> > at all? Should passengers keep their homeworld cycle as long as
> > possible, adjust to the ship cycle and then readjust at their
> > destination, or try to adapt on the way? "Clock shift" ought to
> > be at least as much a problem to interstellar passengers as jet
> > lag is to international airline travel, and for the most part
> > would be equally unavoidable.
>
> Actually, I think the most likely setup on *passenger* ships (as
> opposed to traders that occasionally carry passengers) would be for the
> ship's day to be set such that the time of day when you leave matches
> the local time of day t the port, and when you arrive, it does the
> same. This helps prevent the equivalent of "jet lag".
>
> Thus, it'd depend on what worlds you were jumping between...
>
> > Another question to look at is whether time behaves
> > differently in jumpspace than in normal space, and if so, how
> > ships solve the problem of synchronizing their own time with
> > Imperial astrogation beacons and the like.
>
> If it did behave differently enough to worry about, it'd affect aging
> rolls... :-)
>
It would be pretty straightforward to warp the day-night cycle from
the departure frequency to the arrival frequency en route. On the other
hand, getting the phase right is the hard part. If you have "normal"
variability in the jump time, you don't know when you will pop out.
I suppose one could use ones hands to make a breeze and do it howevber
you want...but it does create the opportunity to have "jet lag" cause
someone to be forced to make a task roll they didn't want to have to make :)
yours,
Michael
- --
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:27:03 +0000
From: Andy Coombes
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
At 12:00 PM 10/02/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Jory Earl wrote:
>>
>> What must I do to protect my data on my CD-R's? I have 20 CD-R's packed
>> with important data that cannot be replaced. I've put a substantial amount
>> of money into this technology thinking it was safe.
>
>The jury is still out on this technology for really _long_ term storage,
>mostly because they haven't been around all that long, and the
>technology has improved a couple of times since their introduction. We
>simply don't really know yet. Ask us in twenty years ;-)
>
>Make duplicate copies...if your data is truly irreplaceable, it's worth
>another coupla bucks on burning another disk. Make two, no, make three
>and store one off-site (it really sucks to have carefully backed up all
>your data, and then pick up the melted disks from the rubble of a
>fire:-(
>
>Some people say the dye coating is an indicator of quality, that the
>gold ones are the best.
Possibly worth duplicating your data onto different coloured CD's too then,
just in case one type is found to be substantially inferior to another type.
Andy.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:07:27 -0000
From: Matt Bond
Subject: RE: Social Impact Statements
> > >Girls of the Solomani Rim
> > >Belter Women Out of Their Vacc Suits!
> > >Exotic Ladies of Terra
> > >The Terran Swimsuit Calendar
> > >The Ling Standard Products Hostile Environment Calendar
> > >The Imperial Birthday Suit Calendar
> > >Noble Women of Dingir Sector
> >
> > "The Lady Marines of the 1183rd Regimet: Out of the can..."
>
> "Dulinor does Deneb"
>
> Frankie
Shouldn't that be "Dulinor does Strephon"
(or vice versa depending on milieu)
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:45:51 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
How do I do this? I've never heard of a home-based machine for stamping CDs
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Harris"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
> Well burn them onto standard CD media instead of the "Re"recordable media.
> You will now get long term storage but won't have the ability to
manipulate
> the data.
>
> Thom Harris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jory Earl"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:32 PM
> Subject: Re: JTAS Online
>
>
> > What must I do to protect my data on my CD-R's? I have 20 CD-R's packed
> > with important data that cannot be replaced. I've put a substantial
> amount
> > of money into this technology thinking it was safe.
> > ___________________________________________________________
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 06:43:53 -0800
From: "Mike Linsenmayer"
Subject: Military-Government mottos (was-D-Berry - Sorry off TML)
>> I am the Infantry, Queen of Battle! For two centuries I have kept our
>> Nation safe by Purchasing freedom with my blood. To tyrants I'am the day
of
>> reckoning, and to the oppressed I'm their hope. Where the fighting is
thick
>> est, there am I! I am the Infantry! FOLLOW ME!
>I seem to recall that the Signal Corps had a similar motto, something like
>"Call me when you get there."
Has any anyone thought of what the mottos of various units or orginizations
in the Imperium or the Solomani empire might be
Solomani: "If you aint Human you be fecal matter"
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:04:05 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1893
In a message dated 00-02-10 09:31:49 EST, you write:
<< > It is rumored that the reason the US Army's 5-star rank is not called
> "Marshal" is that the first one to receive it (and the one who had to
> approve it) would have been George Marshall). "I'll be d*mned if
> anyone's going to all me 'Marshal Marshall'!"
>
> Dunno if it's true, but it is a good story.
Hey, I know I can never join the Navy. I'd be Seaman Seamans. :) >>
I suppose that's better than if your last name were "Stanes"
LKW
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1898
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Traveller-digest Friday, February 11 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 1899
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
FYI
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1894
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1892
Re: Helmet Straps
Re: Word Generators
re: Imperial Law
RE: Terraforming
Re: robot economics
RE: robot economics
Re: JTAS Online
RE: Help needed with HTML tables.
Traveller TV show?
Re: World Generation System Example on-line
Re: FYI
RE: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
Re: Helmet Straps
Re: Military-Government mottos (was-D-Berry - Sorry off TML)
Re: World Generation System Example on-line
Re: FYI
Re: FYI
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1898
Mottoes/Nicknames
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:04:14 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: FYI
In a message dated 00-02-10 06:21:50 EST, you write:
<< David Dietrick >>
D-e-i-
Dave, like Marc, dislikes it when people mispell his name, but they are both
too polite to mention it.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:04:20 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1894
j-man@iname.com writes:
<< What must I do to protect my data on my CD-R's? I have 20 CD-R's packed
with important data that cannot be replaced. I've put a substantial amount
of money into this technology thinking it was safe. >>
Make many back-ups?
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:04:19 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1892
In a message dated 00-02-10 06:21:50 EST, you write:
<< CD-Rs are *dye* based. And nobody is sure how stable the dyes are over
the long term... >>
They go bad once in a while. SJ Games puts it's bureau-managed books on CDs,
along with the art scans and other relevant electronic stuff. Prodedure is to
make two (kept in different spots), and every few months check to make sure
they still work.
One has died in the two years I've been working here...
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:04:20 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Helmet Straps
Doug Berry writes:
<< (He also has his helmet straps undone.. grumblegrumbleJohnWayneBSgrumble)
>>
Didn't Patton _fine_ troops for fastening their chin straps in a combat zone?
ISTR he did this after an aide had his neck snapped off during a bombardment
- -- wind blew the helmet off nearby, less fastidious soldiers.
LKW
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:06:50 -0600
From: "Smart, David J (David)"
Subject: Re: Word Generators
Robert Prior posted:
>
>>In a message dated 2/8/00 1:43:00 PM Central Standard Time,
>>kemitixanzantix@freenet.co.uk writes:
>>
>><< > > Anybody have any that work, or that I haven't seen before? >>
>>
>>I have a working Excel spreadsheet that generates Vargr words.
>
>The BITS website has two Mac products that also generate words. One is a
>HyperCard stack (called MegaLinguist), the other is the application
>Imperial Grand Survey.
I still have the zipped file for the "MegaTraveller GM's Aid" software.
In addition to generating multi-syllable words (you choose how many) for
Aslan, Vargr, Droyne, Vilani, and Zhodani, it allows the generation of
fully customized characters based on any of the MT Advanced character
generation rules, including those from "Vilani & Vargr" and "Aslan &
Solomani" supplements. You can save the char to a file and Aslan chars
can also be male or female for those who want to legally wear comfy shoes.
;-)
It's PC-clone freeware, BTW, and I believe the zipped file is less than a
meg in size (I need to confirm this though). The file is on my laptop
(currently at home) but I can email a copy tonight to anyone who wants it.
If you'd like a copy, please email me directly rather than sending the
request to the TML.
David
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:59:34 -0500
From: Walter Smith
Subject: re: Imperial Law
Peter Newman wrote:
>Canon states that the Imperium rules "the space between the
>stars" since jump space is not between the stars than
>obviously Imperial law must not hold in jump space. If said
>incitement to piracy occurs in jump space it is difficult to
>imagine how the Third Imperium could claim jurisdiction
>as the ship is not even in the same universe as the Imperium
>at the time the crime occurs.
Jump space is certainly "between the stars". In Imperial space,
it's how *everyone* gets "between the stars", it's certainly part
of the area traversed. I don't expect a little detail like crossing
dimensional boundries to be something the star-spanning
Imperium will worry even a tenth of a second about, if it's in
the Imperium's percieved interest.
Besides, we have plenty of evidence of Imperial meddling in the
affairs of planets right down to the planet's surface. Add to that
the Imperial tradition of rule by men, rather than rule by law, and
trying to read protection from the Imperium into a motto like that
above is even more iffy.
Peter again:
>But Imperial member worlds can, and do, have the death penalty.
>I do not see any difference between being shot on site for
>spitting on the sidewalk on one of those nice canonical
>Extreme law level worlds and being spaced for "free speech"
>on a ship registered from one of those worlds.
I think that while the Captain has a lot of leeway, he would still
follow the general guidelines of Imperial Law while in Imperial space.
(Not that this is too big a limit - Imperial Law allows the ship captain
to almost get away with murder already.)
Reason? It provides common expectations between you, your crew,
your passengers and the people on other starships.
Trade would grind to a screeching halt if every time you boarded a ship
you risked being hung out to dry by the esoteric or even malicious
laws of a world a hundred parsecs away.
"Hello. I didn't mention this when you boarded, as I am not required to
by the Langdorn Legal Privacy Act, but the Langdorn Economic
Equity Act allows me to take full possession of the cargo you have hired
me to transport if I so desire, provided I give you a chocolate chip cookie.
No, you haven't heard of this law, my planet just passed it last month.
Don't bother checking up on it, they'll have repealed it and destroyed the
records of it (as per the Langdorn Reduction of Civil Archives Act)
by the time you get there. Here's your cookie."
"Thank you for the cookie. We've been waiting for one of you Langdornites
to come to our system and pull this crap. The patrol cruiser that followed
you into jumpspace will be nationalizing your vessel when we come out,
and there is a representative of *our* planet's Ship Registry Board
with them who will be properly registering your vessel from *our*
port once they've boarded. As per the Jhengo Get the B*stard Act
of 1102, we'll be selling off your ship for the benefit of those messed over
by your planet's representatives, and you'll have a chance to work off
a portion of your planet's outstanding BCr85 legal debts as a sewer
cleaner. Got any milk?"
Walt Smith
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:36:22 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: Terraforming
Mark Preston writes:
>> Pardon my ignorance, but why is it necessary to have the
>> upper levels of the atmosphere hotter than the lower
>> levels?
>I don't actually know - I swiped this from 'Blue Mars'.
>Personally, I found it confusing since if you heat up the
>atmosphere surely it gets hotter lower down, but apparently not.
>Also, I thought the density gradient would be established by
>gravity, but apparently that is not enough.
The density gradient is caused by the weight of the
atmosphere above, that is, by gravity. The temperature
gradient is perhaps more complex, but the air tends to be
warmer at low altitudes on Terra.
>> Now I'm even more lost. Will greenhouse gases selectively
>> heat the lower atmosphere? How will this result in a
>> higher temperature in the upper atmosphere?
>Yes, greenhouse gasses *mostly* are in the 'lower-upper' regions
>of the atmosphere and heat up the gasses below them. You get
>something called the 'thermocline' - don't ask me what it is (I
>swiped that from the Britannica).
A thermocline is a zone of large temperature change over a
short distance, usually between zones with relatively
homogenous temperatures. They are found in temperate lakes
during the summer and winter, but I have never heard of one
in the atmosphere. Can someone help us out here?
I don't know a lot about meteorology, but I didn't think
that the concentration of CO2 increased radically at higher
altitude. What is the density of CO2 anyway?
>>
>> >Finally, you introduce nitrogen-fixing bacteria into the soil in
>> >huge quantities,
>> If the bacteria thrive, you don't really have to start
>> with huge quantities (at least, not huge on a planetary
>> scale), as they can reproduce rather effectively.
>They do, but bacteria are very zonal in reporoduction - they
>don't make a planetary colony so much as regional ones, in very
>small regions (around a mile or so on Earth). You would want them
>pretty much planet-wide, so you need to dump in a lot (not in
>planetary terms, but definately in sheer tonnage).
Well, the bacteria on Terra managed to spread over much of
the planet :)
All that limits their spread is available resources. Drop
a ton of appropriate bacteria in a bay on the ocean, and the
entire ocean might get colonized (given enough time) if the
bacteria manage to survive. To help things along, some
preliminary experiments should be undertaken to "taylor" the
bacteria to the planet, several species should be introduced,
and they should be seeded widely (say, 1,000 1-ton seeding
units that sit in the ocean and pump out bacteria). It would
depend on how fast you wanted things to move. Bear in mind
that a single bacterium, doubling daily (slow for bacteria)
would produce 7.5x10^94 tons of progeny within 1 year.
>>>dump extravagant amounts of plants everywhere you can reach
>>>and provide minimal levels of oxygen near the plants - leave
>>>them to make enough of their own. Algae would probably be best,
>>>but they are lousy for setting up a stable ecology.
>> I'm not sure that algal ecologies are any less stable
>> than those based on other photosynthetic organisms. Terra
>> made due with blue-green algae (photosynthetic bacteria)
>> for billions of years.
>Algae are simple food-cycle beasties and don't need much in the way
>of interactions with other organisms. Chlorophyllic plants tend to
>have complex ecologies with many other inter-relationships.
I'm not sure what you mean by "chlorophyllic" plants, but
algae can be involved in quite complex ecosystems. I would
agree that many vascular plants (things like grass, herbs,
trees, etc.) depend on more interactions with other species,
but I'm not sure that this necessarily makes for a more
stable ecosystem.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:39:51 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: Re: robot economics
Jim Lawrie writes:
>But unless a 'bot is more dextrous than a human, there is little
>reason for building one.
Well, I might be tempted if I can get a robot that does an
adequite job (just how dexterous does a steward have to be?)
for a lower overall price than the human equivelent.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:44:46 -0500
From: Ian Ferguson
Subject: RE: robot economics
DaveShayne writes:
>In short. Saturation of the economy with robotics will
>lead to inevitable economic imballances leading to
>the demise of the Imperial Megacorps.
You are crediting the megacorps with a lot of wisdom and
forsight, not to mention goodwill. It would be awfully
tempting to have a few secret planets full of robots
generating cheap goods for export.
Peez
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:18:40 +0100
From: Jens Rydholm
Subject: Re: JTAS Online
Jory Earl wrote:
> How do I do this? I've never heard of a home-based machine for
> stamping CDs
There is a very good reason for this: It doesn't exist.
You (probably) cannot afford making normal CDs with your data on them.
Do as several people have suggested, and make multiple backups (stored
at different locations). That's the best you can get.
And, if the type of data permits it, make a hardcopy (lots of paper) as
well.
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:19:55 -0000
From: "Mark Preston"
Subject: RE: Help needed with HTML tables.
Been avoiding this thread, but you got me with this one.
First; there is a way to put a page into a table cell - but don't do
it anyway, because it stinks and not all browsers show it properly.
You don't need it anyway.
Second; frames load slowly anyway (for 3 frames, you have to use 4
HTTP GET commands). If you use a consistent page layout with the same
structures on each page, then with one GET, you pick up the same
graphics and whatnot that you have to get anyway. For further pages,
you get them from your local cache - overall, its actually faster that
way.
Can you tell I hate frames ?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
> Sent: 09 February 2000 23:04
> To: traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject: OT: Help needed with HTML tables.
>
>
> Dear Folks -
>
> Greg asked:
> >Is there any way to load a page into a cell in the table,
> the way you
> >would load a page into a frame? Or do I need the menu
> (and table) in
> >the HTML code for every page?
>
> As far as I know, you need the HTML in every page. This is
> how I have seen it
> implemented on every non-frame site I've seen so far.
[snip]
> This is tha main reason I use frames - you DON'T have to
> keep loading the menu
> stuff. As long as you do the right thing with frames (don't
> use more than 3,
> only change the contents of one frame at a time[1], etc),
> they should work fine.
> And each sub-page contains less repetitive junk, therefore
> loads more quickly
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:23:19 +0100
From: Ingo Heinscher
Subject: Traveller TV show?
Hi!
In my GT supplements, there is a line that sais there is a guy named Martin
J. Dougherty who spends some time on a "project to get Traveller to
television".
Does anyone know anything about this?
- --
For Iridium Throne and glory!
ingo heinscher ;-)
Tuppdehler vitte ognorierem!
... und nicht vergessen: _Alles_ ist Meinung. Sogar Physik.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:23:09 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: World Generation System Example on-line
At 11:17 PM 2/10/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Howdy all,
>
>I took my "world history generation system" for a test
>drive tonight, and posted the results up on my website.
[snip]
>I didn't get quite the correct results, but I was only
>off by about an order of magnitude... and that will
>change next week, perhaps...
>
>Rob
Hi, Rob. Looks cool. I am looking forward to seeing the revised
version of the rules on your site... this has a great amount of potential
to create a history for a world that is loaded with plot hooks and the like.
It'll also, for me anyway, give a way to "grow" a subsector...
You might consider a "trigger" if the world has factions and has its
own freighter capability to have a certain portion of its own population to
pack up and head out to set up their *own* colony. Perhaps with a potential
to have that splinter group become a military or trade rival until dealt with.
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:32:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: FYI
On Fri, 11 Feb 2000 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 00-02-10 06:21:50 EST, you write:
>
> << David Dietrick >>
>
> D-e-i-
>
> Dave, like Marc, dislikes it when people mispell his name, but they are both
> too polite to mention it.
>
Why is this considered impolite?
If I never told American English-only speakers, especially those from the
South, how to spell and/or pronounce my name properly, I'd be stuck with
the moniker "Carrie" and/or "Kerry" (neither of which I can stand) for the
rest of my life-- and there is a person in Accounting who is probably
going to call me "Kira" for the rest of my life, sigh.
I wrote my boyfriend's name with the wrong kanji for three months before
he corrected me and he only corrected me when I asked him if it was
correct because my word processor was showing me about 7 different
choices.
(I had known another person named Hiroshi some years before-- it's a very
common name in Japan, and it turns out there are some six, seven different
ways to write it, each of which changes the meaning a little.) I never
understood why he didn't tell me the first time-- I was SO embarrassed
when he told me, and grateful that I didn't find out from somebody else,
like his parents or one of his friends. I use a different kanji for
"Kiri" than most people do, so it's not like I can't understand. My name
means "fog" but the usual way that people write "Kiri" it means "paulownia
tree".
Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 07:59:09
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: RE: Guns and Wounds and Recoil, Oh MY!!...
At 08:36 PM 2/10/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>BTW, I *know* GPMG-type belt-fed can knock me down with recoil if
>I'm not properly braced. Ask Jesse DeGraff and/or Doug Berry.
>They've seen me shoot my HK-21 off-hand. :^)
>
>Of course the, what, 1,200rpm cyclic rate of that particular HK21 might have
>something to do with it, eh Mark? :)
Well, what I saw was Mark firing this way:
ratta-ratta-ratta-*click*
Mark: curses
ratta-*click*
Mark: pulls out tools, starts working on weapon.
ratta-ratta-ratta-ratta. finishes belt.
Mark: pulls out revolver and does a credible job of firing it on full auto.
>Jesse
>p.s. And yes, that gun WOULD Mark knock over, and that's no easy feat!
>Check out
>http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/shooting/winter_99-shoot.htm and
>you'll see what I mean. Pics of Mark Cook, Doug Berry, and myself are
>there.
Luckily nobody took a picture of me firing the G3. Last I had fired a
7.62mm on full auto I was about 50 lbs. heavier.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:04:46
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Helmet Straps
At 10:04 AM 2/11/2000 EST, you wrote:
>
>Didn't Patton _fine_ troops for fastening their chin straps in a combat
>zone? ISTR he did this after an aide had his neck snapped off during a
>bombardment -- wind blew the helmet off nearby, less fastidious soldiers.
Wasn't just Patton. the helmet doesn't do much good if it's sitting on the
ground ten feet from you after the concussion blows it off your head.
Patton had an impressive list of fines, which gave Bill Maudlin the idea
for one of his better cartoons. (Willie and Joe in a jeep, looking at a
sign detailing the fines. Joe says "Better call th'old man and let him know
we'll be late on account of a thousand mile detour.")
I found out that I am officially an Old Soldier now. There are NCOs who
never fired the M-16A1, never saw the M-60 used as a squad support weapon,
and never soaked their feet in their helmet.
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:08:01
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: Military-Government mottos (was-D-Berry - Sorry off TML)
At 06:43 AM 2/11/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Has any anyone thought of what the mottos of various units or orginizations
>in the Imperium or the Solomani empire might be
The Imperial Marine Force: "The Emperor's Sword"
1183rd Marine Line Regiment: "Hell on the Half-Shell"
73rd Lift Infantry Division, Efate PDF: "The Townies"
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:32:43 -0400
From: Michel Vaillancourt
Subject: Re: World Generation System Example on-line
At 11:17 PM 2/10/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Howdy all,
>
>I took my "world history generation system" for a test
>drive tonight, and posted the results up on my website.
[snip again]
>Rob
>
Oh, one question, Rob:
>B. Number of ships
>0. Whatever You Can Find [automatic]
> This also occurs on a failure to make the "converted cargo
> ships" roll. The fleet consists of tramp freighters and various
> out-of-date vessels taken out of mothballs, garages, surplus,
> used starship dealers, and junkyards. The colony population
> is halved, and upon arrival an additional 50% of the starship
> tonnage must be scavenged to maintain the remaining ships or
> else the colony loses 4 tech levels. May be taken for a +1
> DM on any one subsequent roll.
How many hulls, what size and what die-off on arrival in addition to
the above 50% loss?
Thanks!
--Michel
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
ICQ # 31172292
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
NET-City Communications....
Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:39:42
From: "Douglas E. Berry"
Subject: Re: FYI
At 08:32 AM 2/11/2000 -0800, Carrie/Kerry/Kira/Kiri wrote:
>My name means "fog" but the usual way that people write "Kiri" it means
>"paulownia tree".
Or "bread pudding".
- --
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:45:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
Subject: Re: FYI
On Fri, 11 Feb 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> At 08:32 AM 2/11/2000 -0800, Carrie/Kerry/Kira/Kiri wrote:
>
> >My name means "fog" but the usual way that people write "Kiri" it means
> >"paulownia tree".
>
> Or "bread pudding".
>
In Japanese? That is a new one on me! Are you serious? I've seen the
following kanji for "Kiri": paulownia tree (most common for names); fog
(unusual for names); cutting (never used for names).
Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:47:27 PST
From: "will richards"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1898
.....Speeeeeew!!!!!!
Loren just got a keyboard!
Now I have to go out and buy a new one, Thanks Loren! ;-)
Will
<< > It is rumored that the reason the US Army's 5-star rank is not called
> "Marshal" is that the first one to receive it (and the one who had to
> approve it) would have been George Marshall). "I'll be d*mned if
> anyone's going to all me 'Marshal Marshall'!"
>
> Dunno if it's true, but it is a good story.
Hey, I know I can never join the Navy. I'd be Seaman Seamans. :) >>
I suppose that's better than if your last name were "Stanes"
LKW
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:50:19 EST
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Mottoes/Nicknames
In a message dated 00-02-11 10:06:05 EST, you write:
<< "Mike Linsenmayer"
Subject: Military-Government mottos (was-D-Berry - Sorry off TML)
>> I am the Infantry, Queen of Battle! For two centuries I have kept our
>> Nation safe by Purchasing freedom with my blood. To tyrants I'am the day
of
>> reckoning, and to the oppressed I'm their hope. Where the fighting is
thick
>> est, there am I! I am the Infantry! FOLLOW ME!
>I seem to recall that the Signal Corps had a similar motto, something like
>"Call me when you get there."
Has any anyone thought of what the mottos of various units or orginizations
in the Imperium or the Solomani empire might be >>
I put "Follow Me!" in Star Mercs . . . unless it got cut by the censor . . .
it was phrased thus:
Official Motto if the Imperial Army Infantry School: "Follow Me!"
Unofficial motto, ditto: "Have fun, sir!"
Duke of Regina's Huscarles motto is "Strike from Space!"
1188th Lift infantry was nicknamed 'Aces and Eights" but the unit is no
longer extant.
I'm sure there have been others, and I'll have to look them up soon for
GT:GF, but right now I have other things on my mind.
Business-related question: I am considering a possible product that would
involve "walkthroughs" of one or more ships (Beowulf of course, possible
Marava, maybe AHL in our wildest dreams -- and I don't mean Austin Hockey
League) that would be sold on a CD. I'm sure there are programs that could
accomplish this, but my ignorance of the field is immense, so I'd like some
informed technical advice -- we'd need some kind of really cheap license for
whatever program we use. I thought it might be nice to do a 3-d walkthrough
of a Brubek's also, just for giggles. Please send responses to lkw@io.com --
no point in taking up space here on the TML. Jesse: I've asked you this
before, I think: feel free to respond again -- I suspect you'll be "involved"
in the project somehow. ; - )
A private question: Has anyone ever tried to order any GDW stuff through
Amazon-dot-com? I did a search of my name (for grins) and several titles
(mostly Twilight: 2000) are still showing up as "available 2-3 days" rather
than "out of print." Reason is ask is related to greed: I'm thinking of
getting author/associate status with them, because I'd get a kickback for
books I've written sold from a button on my website. When GDW closed down we
sold every Twilight: 2000 book in the warehouse into the distribution chain
(also every Traveller book -- nothing from either of those lines went to the
paper salvage company) -- but I am amazed that 4-5 years down the line they
are still in the system.
Loren Wiseman
GDW Emeritus, class of 1973
SJ Games Emigre, class of '98
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1899
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