Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #1525
Date: 12/18/99 8:44:37 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Reply-to: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com
Traveller-digest Saturday, December 18 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 1525
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.
The following topics are covered in this digest:
Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary
OT?: Sliders (was Re: Ethnic Confusions)
Re: Ethnic confusion
Re: OT US Gun Control C**P on TML
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1521
Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary
Re: The Ship's (bob)cat
Re: Re Rations
Re: guns with guns (and more guns)
Re: back on topic? was: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)
Security Scan was (Mass communication)
Using old wills for pro-gun control
Re: Mars exploration
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1522
Re: Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: Silly Traveller)
Re: Ethnic Confusions
Re: Sliders (was Re: Ethnic Confusions)
Re: Silly Traveller
Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 06:52:35 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)
Subject: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary
>>
>> I've written a space combat game the history of which has combined USA and
>> Canada into the Union of North America. How would Canadians feal about
>> that? Americans? Would it help that in 2080 the president-elect from
>> Toronto gives a "before the decade is out" speech
On 12/18/1999 04:30, Steven Hudson wrote:
>
> Picture a Senate with around 20 new members who would consider
> Teddy Kennedy to be right wing :) The Republican Party would have
> to be utterly brain-dead to risk losing that chamber for a couple
> of generations at least.
>
Not only that, we'd have a true multiparty chamber too that would run the
entire spectrum...Republicans, Democrats, Tories, Liberals and Reform...even
Ross Pee-rot would actually have a party to go to!
Can you think of something that'll drive the voters here more nuts than
that?
- --
Josh
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 06:57:26 -0500
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
Subject: OT?: Sliders (was Re: Ethnic Confusions)
On 12/18/1999 04:33, Richard Martin wrote:
>
> Actually, if I get the story line correct, the Ancients distributed Homo
> around 3-400,000 years ago? If so then it would have been Homo erectus,
> not Homo habilis or Homo sapiens. The first known populations Homo
> sapiens, at least by the majority of scholars, were probably around
> 100,000 to 150,000 years ago (archaic Homo sapiens), probably in South
> Africa. This would collate with the African Eve theory based on
> mitochondrial DNA. Indeed, there is more diversity amoung the
> populations in Africa than between Africa and the rest of the world.
>
> However, there is a minority competeing theory called regional evolution
> put forth that claims that all the regional variation in the human
> species was due to parallel evolution in diverse, semi-isolated
> population of Homo Erectus with just enough admixture to keep us all one
> species.
>
> So if one takes the fist theory and grabs a population of at least 1000
> (the number necessary for sucessful propogation with minimal effects of
> Founders Syndrome), then they would have of all likely hood come from
> Africa since this is the only possible viable source of sucessful sub
> species of Home erectus. However, the second theory would allow for the
> small phenotypical differences aoung the Human race by because of the
> regional viablility of Homo erectus, thus they could have been snatched
> from anywhere H. erectus was found.
>
> All of this would, of course, be moot if the Ancients just said to heck
> with it and introduced their own solutions...
Which brings up an interesting conjecture. Not sure if this is off-topic.
For anyone who watches Sliders, do the Kromaggs represent an evolved homo
erectus or something else? Could it also mean that at least one of the
human minor races could have evolved into something similar?
This is, of course, assuming that not all forty or so human minor races have
been catalogued in the OTU. If they have, well, IMO it wouldn't be too hard
for a ref to come up with some stats.
- --
Josh
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:58:02 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen
Subject: Re: Ethnic confusion
Richard Martin writes:
>Actually, if I get the story line correct, the Ancients distributed Homo
>around 3-400,000 years ago?
300,000. The whole Ancient period only spans 20,000 years, from ca.
- -310,000 to -290,000. Some MT publications erroneously introduced the
figure -400,000, but that is a mistake.
>If so then it would have been Homo erectus, not Homo habilis or Homo
>sapiens. The first known populations Homo sapiens, at least by the
>majority of scholars, were probably around 100,000 to 150,000 years ago
>(archaic Homo sapiens), probably in South Africa. This would collate with
>the African Eve theory based on mitochondrial DNA. Indeed, there is more
>diversity amoung the populations in Africa than between Africa and the
>rest of the world.
Unfortunately the history of the Traveller universe must have been written
before this theory achieved currency (or maybe the authors used outdated
sources). In the TU many descendents of H. antiquitus [my term for whatever
human subspecies the Ancients collected] are able to interbreed with Homo
sapiens sapiens. As I understand it, this means that their oldest common
ancestor, H. antiquitus must have been H. sapiens too. Not necessesarily H.
sapiens neanderthalensis and certainly not H. sapiens sapiens, but definitely
H. sapiens _something_. This may not accord with the current knowledge of
the Real world, but then, the Traveller universe is not the Real World.
>However, there is a minority competeing theory called regional evolution
>put forth that claims that all the regional variation in the human
>species was due to parallel evolution in diverse, semi-isolated
>population of Homo Erectus with just enough admixture to keep us all one
>species.
Well, the 'just enough admixture' didn't happen between human populations
stuck on different planets. In the case of Darrian it didn't even happen
between the five population groups they were divided into.
If you insist that the Traveller universe must be just like the Real World,
I suggest that current scientific theories about the evolution of man are
wrong.
Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
events based on the individual situation."
_76 Patrons_, p. 8
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:44:50 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: OT US Gun Control C**P on TML
>Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:45:16 +0000
>From: SD Mooney
>Subject: OT US Gun Control C**P on TML
>
>
>
>PLEASE TAKE THIS IRRELEVANT CYCLIC ARGUMENT OFF THE TML!
>
>
>That feels better ;-)
>
>Dom
Hear! Hear! Ditto, likewise, I concure.
David Shayne
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Old version - Build a better mousetrap and
the world will beat a path to your door.
New version - Build a better mousetrap and
some @$*% will build a better mouse.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:54:45 -0500
From: "DaveShayne"
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1521
>
>Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:59:20 -0800
>From: Russell Bornschlegel
>Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary
>
>Eric Henry wrote:
>> I've written a space combat game the history of which has combined USA
and
>> Canada into the Union of North America. How would Canadians feal about
>> that? Americans? Would it help that in 2080 the president-elect from
>> Toronto gives a "before the decade is out" speech
>
>ITYM "Organization of North American Nations", or ONAN. See David
>Foster Wallace's _Infinite_Jest_ for a satiric look at the results.
>
>Hell, everyone go read _Infinite_Jest_ just so I have someone to
>talk to.
>
>- -Russell "ITYM _Infinite_Book_" B
>
Well Russell I've read it. I can't say that I can wholeheartedly sugest
it to anybody else though.
It's 1400 pages long including aproximately 200 pages of endnotes.
(which you do have to read because a large number of them are page
long sections of plot and charecter.) The book also goes into a lot of
detail regarding the philosophy of alchoholics annonymous. Reasonably
well writen and it has a few good laughs but large portions of it are
about as pleseant as an AA meeting. YMMV.
If you want to discuss it off list hit me at
daveshayne@msn.com
David Shayne
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Old version - Build a better mousetrap and
the world will beat a path to your door.
New version - Build a better mousetrap and
some @$*% will build a better mouse.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:54:00 -0700
From: cos 90
Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary
>> That's funny, I didn't think that Canada had socialized medicine. On the
>> other hand, having seen the economic hardship that prolonged sickness can,
>> and more often than not, does bring onto families, I'm far from convinced
>> that "capitalized medicine" is all that much better.
>>
>And Canada's single-payer system is what all the media wants us to look
>toward for a "better health care system, just like Bill and Hillary. BAD
>EXAMPLE for Americans! Other countries, such as the Federal Republic of
>Germany, have a health care system which is a partnership between the
>government, the providers and the insurers. I have a nephew who will be 9 in
>January, and he was born in a German hospital (and for now he has dual
>citizenship), there were some complications in his delivery. He eventually
>came through OK, but at least his mother (my sister) didn't have to worry
>about the bills.
And had your sister's experience happened to a Canadian, there'd be no
difference -- we don't have to worry about the bills either. The biggest
difference between the health care system here and the one in Germany is
that here, the patient still has some choice regarding which doctor to
see. This being the case, I find myself perplexed as to why you'd think
Canada's system would be a "BAD EXAMPLE" for Americans, then turn around
and point at Germany as being a good one. Unless for some reason you think
that we, as patients, shouldn't have the element of choice when it comes
to our medical care.
Wait, I forgot -- the HMO system in the US also removes the element of
choice from the patient, so I guess you're used to that already. :-D
Glenn St-Germain § Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
cos90@powersurfr.com § http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
"There is no longer any normal to be"
-- Gary Numan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:19:52 -0600
From: "shadowcat"
Subject: Re: The Ship's (bob)cat
automated litterboxes wouldnt be a major deal, we have them now,
they could be computer controlled in the future easily. in TNE it
could even be an early sign of virus infestation, when the litterbox
or dog run spaces the ships pet.
I have a little cat here whos a mixed maine coon and norwegian
forest cat, who tilts the scales at nearly 35#, hes been accused of
being a baby aslan.
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow/faf.jpg
Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf
ADD/ADHD Advocate
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:23:42 -0600
From: "shadowcat"
Subject: Re: Re Rations
Memo: To Andy & Dom
Forget about even asking. I am *not* writing "101 Freshers"
What Doug? your not willing to plunge the depths required for such
a strange project, we need to find another loo-se canon to write it
then, I'm feeling kinda flushed about it myself.
Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf
ADD/ADHD Advocate
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:25:50 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: guns with guns (and more guns)
At 04:25 PM 12/16/99 +0000, you wrote:
>An individual just stands in the cue with the customers, waiting
>patiently. When it is his turn, he *quietly* says "Ueberfall," that
>is, "Robbery." The cashier has strict instructions never to risk
>anything in such a case, so he simply gives the criminal the cash he
>has available. Then the criminal *walks* away from the bank and
>disappears. Sometimes, customers do not even notice that the bank
has
>been robbed, and I am pretty sure that none of those criminals has a
>gun.
>
>Now drop your usual trigger-easy PCs on a planet where things go
like
>this, and have them wonder if they should rob a bank themselves...
>.
>
>Btw, this is somewhat nasty, and I apologize for it, but I asked
>precisely that to a native austrian, i.e. if it wouldn't be a
>temptation for some foreigners, let's say americans (or even
>spaniards like me), to rob a bank if they knew this is the style
>here. The answer was that that would never happen, because an
>american could never correctly pronounce "Ueberfall," and hence the
>cashier would never understand him...
Except for those of us who spent 7 years in German schools ... each
year my classmates and I would wait to see how long it took the
instructor to realize I was an American despite my Bavarian accent
...
(Not that I have any intention of flying to Austria for the purpose
of committing felonies, mind you ...)
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence
in TV and
movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see random
acts of
situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:48:44 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Re: back on topic? was: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)
Was written:
>> Going OT: the above is actually influenced by some posts I got on
another
>> list, on the topic of gun control! Apparently, the civil rights movement
>> in the US, one of the classic "nonviolent" movements, was defended by a
>> very large proportion of its members possessing guns. This resulting in
>> the white hood brigade suffering some very embarrassing setbacks....
>
>What incident was that? I can only think of that incident in South
>Carolina in '82 ('83?) where the guns were distributed overwhelmingly
>otherwise.
I seen to remember reading that there was an incident back in the 50's in
the North Carolina Mountains, Klan vs. Cherokee. Supposedly the Cherokee,
being far better shots and better armed, won. Of course it helped that the
incident reportedly happened on a moon lit night, all their oponents were
wearing white sheets, excellent targets, and they had the home court
advantage. Does anyone have a citation regarding the truth of this? I
seem to remember reading it about it in a Time Magazine article many years
ago.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:04:52 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps"
Subject: Security Scan was (Mass communication)
Was written:
>> Hey, the last time I was at one of those, I very nearly had to strip
>> down before they finally conceded that it was the button on my pants
>> tripping the alarms.
As an occasional photographer I often travel with an old medium format twin
lens reflex camera or two. If you've never seen one they are a rather large
rectangular box type camera with two lenses on the front. You focus by
looking down into a screen on the top. If they are loaded I always have
them hand checked. Airport security invariably checks such cameras by
looking through the view screen at the top ignoring the fact that they have
second large film chamber at the bottom... remember it's a "twin lens"
camera not a single lens reflex. Such people look but they don't see. If I
have the time, an empty camera and there is no line I occasionally educate
them by removing the lens board and showing them how to check one properly.
I figure the life I save may be my own.
On the flip side on one occasion I had an officious old biddy open every one
of the 35 mm plastic film cans I had in the bag, my guess is that she was
looking for dope. On a second occasion I had to stop security from opening
a factory sealed box of unexposed 8 by 10 inch sheet film for one of my
large format cameras. I told him he was welcome to break the seal and open
it if he wanted to but if he did so he bought it and I wanted the twenty
five bucks up front.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:50:46 EST
From: GaryBartz@aol.com
Subject: Using old wills for pro-gun control
In a message dated 12/17/99 7:30:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
<< One of the triggers, sure. But historical data (wills, etc.) shows that US
citizens did not care much about guns after the revolution -- circa 1800,
militias were in a sorry state, most citizens did not own a working gun,
etc. They cared about the confiscation of weaponry because they were
preparing for armed insurrection. >>
I'm thinking you want to be real careful about using old wills to decide what
the common man cared about.
1. Intestacy laws were common and well understood, will laws were very formal
and hard to comply with, it took a lawyer in many cases [heck, it still does,
no matter what those do-it-yourself books say]
2. Inter vivos gifts of possessions were common, land was the main thing that
came under the statute of frauds and had to be written out if a different
outcome from the intestacy laws was desired [of course, gifts to children
during life back then would count off their share under probate, so they may
be some value records from court, but not in the wills themselves]
3. Many other anti-gunners quote British authors commenting about the
mid-1800s American south, and how violent all the people were, how they would
fight at the drop of a hat for honor, and how common guns and the use of guns
was in formal or informal honor duels, and how everyone was armed...which is
it?
Trav Ref: Characters, trying to deal with information overload that we would
expect the 3I to be, at least along the routes, find a great article/thesis
about a world on the fringe's culture, based on analysis of old
shipping/trade/wills/fiction/whatever records...decide they can now make a
great strategy based on it, and commit themselves to their course of action,
betting their ship and lives
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:02:19 -0500
From: Steve Noe
Subject: Re: Mars exploration
[snip] There's no
> > >commercial reason to go there.
> ...
> > There was no reason to go to the New World either. (Drinking my chocolate
> > milk, staring at the tobacco ad on the back of the magazine near me...)
>
> Ha ha! That's really good.
>
Ummn...commerce was the _major_ reason for going. Columbus was trying to
find a short route to the Spice Islands, remember, and all the gold that
Marco Polo had written about in far off Cathay.
When the Spanish started bringing gold and silver back to Europe,
England, the Netherlands, Denmark, and France all decided to get in on
the goodies.
We'll be in space for good when somebody can make a profit, other than
selling launch vehicles or comsats.
Steve Noe, in Indianapolis
fusilier@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:12:37 EST
From: GaryBartz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1522
In a message dated 12/18/99 12:21:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:
<< In mail you write:
> On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Alan Bradley wrote:
>
>> Going OT: the above is actually influenced by some posts I got on another
>> list, on the topic of gun control! Apparently, the civil rights movement
>> in the US, one of the classic "nonviolent" movements, was defended by a
>> very large proportion of its members possessing guns. This resulting in
>> the white hood brigade suffering some very embarrassing setbacks....
>
> What incident was that? I can only think of that incident in South
> Carolina in '82 ('83?) where the guns were distributed overwhelmingly
> otherwise.
Most such "incidents" were purely local. Things like the local KKK boys
getting drunk and deciding to "scare the niggers" by burning a cross on
someone's lawn, or at the local black church (or even burning the
church). Some sympathetic white would anonymously call the target(s)
and warn them. So the white hood brigade shows up and run into some
blacks, armed with shotguns (hard to take away when they use them to
hunt for food!).
In one case I heard of, the blacks waited until the KKK goons got out
of the cars and then (from cover) blew the hell out of the *cars*.
After all, they didn't want to get in trouble for shooting a white man.
The cars that were still drivable got packed full of KKK members in
full (panicked) retreat. And the ones that weren't drivable got towed
away later as abandoned. And by mutual, unspoken agreement, the blacks
didn't ask any questions about who owned the cars, and the law didn't
ask any questions about how they came to be shot up.
You have to keep in mind that while *most* Southerners thought that
blacks were "inferior" they *didn't* approve of KKK tactics such as
shootings, burnings, hangings and mutilations. So when the KKK got
whupped in one of these confrontations, most of the locals would think
"serves 'em right" as long as the blacks didn't get "uppity" because of
it.
>>
The book was "Negros with Guns", a paperback written by the leader of a
localised black defense force. I found a copy in the university library
during undergrad and did a short report [now lost]. I cannot recall his name,
and the book was old, the U had put those cardboard covers on it to keep it
going.
The gist was that he was a former Marine who rose to the local NAACP
leadership, he also led the local black gun club. The NRA provided training
and M1s [WWII 30-06 semi auto 8 shot rifles], and he purchsed old nazi stuff
to fill out the ranks. The book has some cool tales of using rifles to drive
off white forces drive-by attacks, he trained his defense troops to judge
their fire by watching for the flashes when the rounds hit the cars. They
also used rifle fire to drive off a small plane which they had been warned
was on a bombing mission against their headquarters house. They later held a
white couple for either racial dislike of whites or to save their lives, and
the Feds got involved, decided that the nazi rifles meant they were bad
people, and the leader was forced to flee to Cuba. Along the way the national
NAACP decided that guns and defending yourself was bad and booted him out,
the locals voted him back in. The usual thing that happens to a disarmed
people after a conflict happened after the black forces were broken up. Try
to find a copy if you want to learn about how to defend an oppressed people,
if you can read past his pro-commie anti-US political views
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:07:16 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: Silly Traveller)
At 06:06 pm 12/17/99 -0500, you wrote:
>On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:40:23 -0500 (EST), Sethkimmel@aol.com
>wrote:
>
>>In the interests of further confusing things, I have to interject
this tidbit:
>
>>The Torah (Old Testament) has a least one MAJOR change in it during
the
>>translation process (Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English in the
King James
>>Bible). In the ten Commandments, it is "Thou shall not MURDER",
which in the
>>King James Bible is "Thou shall not kill". I call this major as it
encourages
>>pacifism (which I don't believe in - see the 2nd Amem. flamewar).
Is there
>>any other changes that is pertinent to the Ark?
>
>Relevance to the Ark uncertain in context, but...
>
>"Thou shalt not steal" should have been translated as "Thou shalt
>not kidnap", and "Thou shalt not covet..." should have been "Thou
>shalt not steal..."
Interesting ... never heard this one. Any reason it hasn't been
corrected in any of the umpteen updated and redone translations since
KJ? My copy of the NRSV still has it steal/covet ...
ObTrav ... what if the first translation of the Warrant of
Restoration into planet A's native language was mistranslated ... and
the Imperium liked the mistranslation better, so they never corrected
it. How would planet A react when they discover they're getting
screwed (more than other worlds)?
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence
in TV and
movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see random
acts of
situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:25:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenji Schwarz
Subject: Re: Ethnic Confusions
On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > This discussion points out one of the weaker points in "Traveller
> > sociology" -- the assumption that the Vilani, Zhodani, etc. all lack the
> > genetic, phenotypical, linguistic, and cultural diversity of the Solomani,
> > because small numbers were transplanted while the Solomani had a somehow
> > fuller gene pool to draw on. This is totally indefensible on a linguistic
> > and cultural ground, I'm willing to fight to the bitter end; on the
> > genetic and biological side, I'll defer to more versed phys anthro types
> > here, but from what I understand there's no real support for that either.
>
> Since they are all descended from a more limited gene pool, the odds
> *do* favor loss of any number of genes purely thru genetic drift.
Doesn't current research (which I only read patchily, I admit) suggest
that the "founding population" that contributed to the contemporary human
population was also quite small, not more 10,000 or so? This is in the
same range as the "canonical" numbers of transplaned proto-Zhodani, for
example.
Kenji
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:35:45 -0500
From: "Jory Earl"
Subject: Re: Sliders (was Re: Ethnic Confusions)
The Kromaggs seem to have been a parallel evolution along with us.
___________________________________________________________
J-Man
ICQ# 2843475
New Hampshire - U.S.A.
Email : j-man@iname.com
Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh W. Spencer"
> Which brings up an interesting conjecture. Not sure if this is off-topic.
> For anyone who watches Sliders, do the Kromaggs represent an evolved homo
> erectus or something else? Could it also mean that at least one of the
> human minor races could have evolved into something similar?
>
> This is, of course, assuming that not all forty or so human minor races
have
> been catalogued in the OTU. If they have, well, IMO it wouldn't be too
hard
> for a ref to come up with some stats.
>
> --
> Josh
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:17:13 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller
At 04:54 pm 12/17/99 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>>
>>> Ok, with *that* description I remember it. I agree, it was *just*
the
>>> serial number.
>>>
>>> Which means it was discovered when the warehouse changed hands
and a
>>> *complete* inventory was done. Here's a crate with an unreadable
serial
>>> number. And the list of items has one item not checked off.
>>
>> And just when will the United States government entity in charge
of that
>> facility do a *complete* inventory?
>
>> It probably does a periodic audit, but a complete inventory will
only
>> take place if it's found necessary to go to the trouble and
expense,
>> like if evidence of pilfering or other misappropriation has
occurred
>> (like the Smithsonian's National Gallery of Art found a few years
ago).
>
>As I noted, a *complete* inventory will almost certainly take place
>when the facility gets turned over to another entity. Not
necessarily
>*every* time responsibility changes hands, as even some bureaucrats
are
>too trusting for their own good. But sooner or later...
Yeah, and having seen some of these inventories, there's going to be
at least 20% of the items on the paperwork missing, and 10% of the
items on hand won't be listed at all ... you go through a paper
exercise (Report of Survey) on the items you can't quickly find and
wind up just adjusting the paperwork ...
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence
in TV and
movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see random
acts of
situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:18:23 -0500
From: "David J. Golden"
Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary
At 08:38 pm 12/17/99 -0500, you wrote:
>On 12/17/1999 20:05, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>
>> At 03:01 PM 12/17/99 -0600, you wrote:
>>> I've written a space combat game the history of which has
combined USA and
>>> Canada into the Union of North America. How would Canadians feal
about
>>> that? Americans? Would it help that in 2080 the president-elect
from
>>> Toronto gives a "before the decade is out" speech
>>>
>>
>> I presume there was an invasion? I can't see it happening
>> voluntarily... Most Canadians are very quick to say they aren't
Americans....
>
>Unless sometime in the 21st century, the Parti Quebecois actually
succeeds
>in their separation referendum. The Maritimes, cut off from the rest
of
>Canada and with a terrible economic situation, petition to join the
USA, as
>do the western provinces....
I actually heard a rumor that, the first time this referendum came
up, some of the Canadian provinces quietly inquired of the US State
Department what the procedure would be ... just in case.
- -- As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence
in TV and
movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see random
acts of
situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"
------------------------------
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1525
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